Harry Potter wizards against wizards from 3e or 4e or 5e, which

Harry Potter Wizards have no limit to the number of spells they can cast.

That is all.

Read Harry Potter and the natural 20.

>>50692421
They don't have any of the really bonkers spells however.

>>50692400
Outside of the top 1% of badasses HP wizards would lose in a fight to any random chucklefuck with a projectile weapon.

>>50692583
Yeah, still waiting on the citation for that.

>>50692400
Depends, do the harry potter wizards give a shit about using the curses?

>>50692444
But pretty much every adult can teleport at will. And they TEND to be reasonable at counterspelling.

>>50692612
The books never mentioned any kind of protection against a gun (or a crossbow).
They also lack passive protections.
They are basically screwed.

>>50692612
Anon, the author said it in "an interview". What more proof do you want?

>>50692679
If they're fine with doing the magical equivalent of jumping on a dude and tearing their throats out with their own teeth while they scoop the guys eyes out with their thumbs, sure.

>>50692724
Prove they do, because they can ward against damn near anything. Also, no passive protections? The fuck series you you read? They protect against non-magical shit all the time.

>>50693500
An actual citation would be grand.

>>50693892
>An actual citation would be grand.
How about the time when Lord Voldemort got his snake's head cut off.
Passive protections would have prevented that.

>>50692400
I think the sheer speed of Harry Potter spells would win them the day. Their stuns, disarms, and basic kill spells have no somatic components, and skilled wizards don't even need to actually say the spell. Point and shoot, no recoil, as fast as you can speak. Or a flick of the wrist, I remember the films showing both, but I don't remember which spells corresponded to the "no movement" category, besides the disarm which is also a concussive blast. Makes it hard for d&d wizard to get a shot off.

If d&d can prepare the field, then they win hands down. They're like Batman in that respect.

>>50694070
Passive protections against an artifact.

Sure. I said against non-magical shit.

And I said an actual citation of where Rowling said it. Every time it comes up, you fucks never can show me where she said it. She never said it, you pulled it out of your ass.

>>50694401
Maybe nobody wants to go track it down and spoon feed you because they have better things to do.

>>50694415
Or maybe it never fucking was actually said, you little shit.

You make the claim, you provide the proof.

>>50694401
>Passive protections against an artifact.
But their magical battles all go like this. Everybody chucks spells at each other and tries to dodge what spells come towards them.
That is just not how DnD wizards fight. The difference in protection is important.

>>50692400
What situation? A one-on-one with an average HP wizard and an average DnD wizard probably results in a DnD win. HP wizards are just regular blokes, whereas even a low level DnD wizard is a highly trained combatant. Trained HP fighter (like say an auror or a Death Eater) tilts in HP's favor until you get up the higher DnD levels. Sure, the auror can throw out a Stupify faster than a Wizard can grab his fireball components, wave his hands, and complete the somatic component, but the auror can't compete with some 20th level Wizard Nerveskittering into a quickened Time Stop followed by Gating in enough Celestial Dire Crocodiles to spontaneously resurrect Steve Irwin.

Long term conflict probably favors DnD. Their methods of gathering information about an unknown enemy are just too far ahead of HP's rather weak and specific Divinations. The only way the HP Wizards win that one is if they immediately go on the offensive and start kidnapping DnD Wizards, breaking into their minds, and then moving onto the next concentration of DnD Wizards.

>>50692400

In general, I think fights are going to lean towards the Potter wizards.

Let me explain why.

The first is sheer numbers. Potterverse has more magical people in the UK alone than most DnD settings have spellcasters in their entire world. Magic is rare in DnD, and most of those spellcasters don't put in the time and effort to get above level 5, much less to level 15. Only couple of wizards in a generation make it to level 20.

Meanwhile, the only thing HP wizards have to do to level up is attend highschool. Not every one of them ends up amazing, but learning new and more powerful forms of magic is waaaaaay easier for HP wizards. They don't even have to go find increasingly more powerful monsters to fight and kill!

On top of that, every HP wizard gets metamagic for free. Even wizarding students can learn to cast spells fast enough that DnD would consider them quickened, and learning to cast spells without verbal components or wands is just a matter of practice. The art of "dueling" in Potterverse is basically just being quick enough on the draw that you can counterspell an enemy attack and then fire off your own return before they can respond.

And, most importantly of all: saving throws don't fucking exist for HP spells. Unless you have a special magical charm of some kind to offer its protection, if you get hit by a HP spell you suffer the full effects of that spell, none of your stats matter. Meanwhile, even a level 20 wizard has a 1:20 chance that a fucking child will make their save, and it might even be higher.

Really, the only advantages that DnD spellcasters have is easy summoning magic and some of the higher level spells that Potterverse apparently doesn't have an equivalent to. So yeah, a DnD wizard casting "Wish" is a gamechanger. But any direct fight between Potterverse wizards and DnD wizards will probably not end will for the vancian casters.

>>50695091
>saving throws don't fucking exist for HP spells.
That's because saving throws are a game mechanic to make it possible for spells to have different effects on different people. The same exists in HP universe. Harry himself is much more vulnerable to fear attacks than other people.

Also, invisibility is a huge deal in the HP universe. To DnD mages, it's a level 2 spell. Add Vocalize and DnD mages will easily get the drop on HP wizards.

>Only couple of wizards in a generation make it to level 20.
If you are going by total numbers, then I should probably point out that the handful of high level wizards would be all it takes to wipe out all of the HP universe.

>>50694520

Did you fucks not tag the books? Shield spells exist. Ward spells exist. Protective magic and spells exist. These can all be passive or active.

Also

>protego

I also think it's worth mentioning that the Sword of Gryffindor is a very outlying exception to rules. Goblin made, absorbs crap that makes it stronger (hence why it was able to fucking cut Nagini's head off, it was infused with basilisk venom).

>>50695244

Read, not tag. Damn phone

>>50695244
>Shield spells exist. Ward spells exist. Protective magic and spells exist.
Yes, and they don't use them.
For all the infinite spells they have, their magical battles are really low-level.
Their most powerful wizard ever was no exception. The duels are all about drawing speed, like we're in a western movie.
DnD wizards simply fight better than that.

>>50695208

>invisibility is a huge deal in the HP universe

Yes and no. TRUE invisibility, where you image completely vanishes and it's impossible to use magic to undo it, yes. But there are several other spells that give near complete invisibility that any adult wizard is more than capable of doing.

>>50695284

Well, they usually don't use it because the evil guys mostly use the intant-death speel or spells that can't be blocked by the shield spell anyways.

If they knew the other mages are just gonna use simple fireballs and such, they'd certainly use the shield spell.

>>50695208

Also I'd argue that saving throw type effects kind of exist for certain HP spells. Look at Legilimens and Imperius. Both are resistable.

>>50695323
>If they knew the other mages are just gonna use simple fireballs and such,
Yeah, like the DnD verse doesn't feature similar spells.

>>50692400
The basic concussion spell in HP can be cast at the flick of a wrist, with no vocal command and no limit. It's strong enough to break furniture and tiles.
D&D wizards can cast ridiculously more powerful spells with casting time and preparation, if they have such they win, but in a "neutralize each other now!" situation the HP wizard wins.

>>50695284
>DnD wizards simply fight better than that.

Do they? It sounds the Potter Verse wizards are going to reliably win initiative, and they have a number of different spells they can use to OHKO the DnD wizard without a save.

Yes, the DnD wizard has more powerful spells in general. But that only matters if they get the chance to cast them.

>>50695353
Minimum casting time without use of quicken spell is six fucking seconds. An HP wizard will slaughter a D&D wizard in that time.

>>50695366
>>50695376
>if they get the chance to cast them.
And that's where protection spells come in. You can cast them ahead of time.

>>50695348

DnD has spells that can cause instant death, but those spells have saving throws. They can fail. You can take actions that make them less effective, or even cast protective magic that flat-out makes you immune to those death effect.

The distinguishing feature of the Killing Curse is that, unlike all of the other death spells in Harry Potter, nothing can block the Killing Curse. A Harry Potter wizard can flick their wrist and turn you to sand in an instant, but THAT spell can be countered, so its not "unforgiveable".

>>50695348

Readily available to every magic user? It's clearly stated in the HP books that anyone with a wand is capable of using the instant death spell as long as they REALLY want it, by being completely uncaring towards another being's life.

>>50692724
The news report on Sirius Black claimed he had a handgun. The book went on to explain that a gun was like a muggle wand that could only do killing curses. Avada Kedavra is unblockable. Make of that what you will.

>>50695402

Which requires the DnD wizard to already have the tactical advantage of knowing what spells they need and having ample time to cast them... but not TOO much time because a lot of those spells have limited durations and if they wait too long they will fizzle out.

You are implicitly handing the DnD wizard free advantages to keep them viable against Harry Potter wizards.

>>50695430

They also stated in the same book how silly firearms are and they could easily deal with guns.

A simple transfiguration spell would be able to turn a gun into a bird or a goblet.

>>50695453

Only helps if you can cast the spell before you get shot.

>>50695284

Seeing as Voldemort's go to spell always seems to be the killing curse, he's not really within the norm. Also I want to point out that Harry was using protego to protect people from what can safely be assumed were multiple killing curses, so it's probably blockable too. And we don't really know what the norm for duels is. We rarely see ACTUAL duels with people other than Harry (and even when we do, do we actually see what spells are used?), they may very well be using protego and other defensive spells. If we go by the movies (lol), people use defensive spells all the time. Look at Molly vs Bella. They both very obviously block each other's spells.

I don't think just because defensive spells may or may not be used often from what we see in the books/movies should weigh into this debate. We're assuming DnD wizards are using everything at their disposal, we need to assume the same for HP wizards.

>>50695452
Have you heard of Contingency spells?
Of Simbul's Spell Trigger?
Of Divination?

>>50695495

Sure, and HP wizards can use spells without enuciating, they can use spells without actually pointing their wands and I'm assuming a straight up fight.

AND even if they get shot, unless they get really unlucky and they get shot straight into a vital organ, they will be able to cure, since people in the HP universe can grow limbs and bones quite easily with magic potions and the such.

I'm sure a DnD wizard would also easily die from a stray bullet. unless they are a lich or something.

>>50695402

Why are you giving DnD wizards prep time and not HP wizards? You're very obviously letting bias make your arguments.

>>50695512

No, killing curses can't be blocked. But killing curses are really personal spells. Unless you are a complete sociopath, you'll have trouble to use Avada Kedavra effectively.

>>50695515

Ok, then we have to set some rules in place for the conflict.

Duel format, actual fight format, Killing fight format.

>>50695515

Divination is unreliable on its own, and HPverse already has spells to scramble attempts to divine their location (its how dark wizards are not under and endless siege of teleporting magic cops).

Contingency is limited in what it can do (it can only cast spells on you, the caster, can't be above a certain level, and you can only have one at a time) and Spell Trigger is basically irrelevant because only level 20 wizards from one specific region of one specific fantasy world can cast it. Statistically speaking, most of the time there are exactly 0 people other than Elminster who can cast it at a given time.

Are you are still saying "the DnD wizard gets hours of preptime to make sure they don't get fucking jobbed in the first 3 seconds of the fight, the HP wizards get nothing because thats fair"

Regarding HP spells and saving throws: In D&D terms, Stupefy is a spell that requires a ranged attack roll, has no save and deals a good amount of non-lethal damage. Certain combatants (Hagrid, who could be considered to have racial HD and a high Con, or McGonagall, who is probably fairly high-level) have been subdued only by multiple castings. It is possible to evade Stupefy (or the killing curse, for that matter) by using Cat’s Grace, Haste, Time Stop, Contingency and any Teleport, and probably a number of options I am not thinking of (Nerveskitter, Celerity?).

Regarding casting speed: It is probably fair to assume that HP spells are equivalent to quickened versions of D&D spells. Even a skilled HP mage can only throw out two or three curses per combat round due to incantations or somatic components, though. The question of initiative is hardly an automatic victory for the HP wizard – he only needs to wave his wand, while the D&D wizard only needs to snap his fingers. By contrast, D&D mages (excluding 5e) tend to have the advantage of using multiple spells simultaneously with little difficulty, and enjoy ready access to magical items and divination items that provide superior preparation and passive protection (though HP clearly has some sort of preparatory spells and potions as well – consider the Battle of Hogwarts, for instance).

An average adult HP wizard should be able to fight a D&D wizard of roughly 5th to 10th level on the Featureless White Plane of Combat™ at thirty paces. I assume any protracted or large-scale battle will be decided by a single uncounterable cheese tactic we have yet to think of (as the plot demands), such as becoming ethereal, plane shifting and sending in summons, anti-magic shell, or something like that.

>>50695570

I reiterate the part about Harry blocking Voldemort multiple times during the final battle. I guess this is one of those things where Rowling needs to weigh in on it because she kinda contradicts herself here. Yes, Barty Crouch Jr says the killing curse can't be blocked (being a death eater, can this be 100% trusted?), but as Voldemort's go to spell was the killing curse, and at least in the cases of Neville and Molly it's safe to assume he was going to use it on them, Harry used protego before Voldey could cast them. If it's unblockable why didn't he cast anyways? It also made it sound like the one cast for Molly was really strong (expanded in the middle of the Hall), so it makes me wonder if protego can in fact be strong enough to block. I doubt Harry didn't have strong feelings about the closest thing to a mother he had being killed, and it's been shown feelings affect casting.

>>50694352
Problem is - they can. Oh how they can.

Even middle level wizard can probably kill a lot of HP opponents not even once seeing them personally through using Planar Binding. Scrying, clairvoyance, invisibility, ubiquitous magic items that most D&D wizards can craft themselves. Spells that affect large areas so that even hiding won't help. Autohit spells (Meta pumped magic missile anyone?).

And that's not even getting into what really high level wizards can do. Or gods forbid remembering Epic Spells.

>>50695684


>he only needs to wave his wand

Actually, not necessarily. They only have to have a wand in hand, and even then only for certain spells. They also can use spells without uttering words or with minimal movement.

Think of wand waving and spell chanting as guidelines for what and how you want to spell. Sufficiently skilled wizards can cast lots of useful spells in silence and without a single movement.

BUT said spell are also mostly not suited for combat or non-combat oriented.

In the sixth book, the main non-enunciated spell used is one where an invisible force takes you by the ankle and dangles you upside down until you cast a counter spell to release it, also non-enunciated.

>>50692680
They can't stop time, speed themselves up, or divine the future as well as D&D wizards, to say nothing about crafting magic items. They also don't have any real protection spells as far as I can tell.

>>50695366
HP wizards are just human, with human reaction times. We don't even know if Adava Kedavra is really an instant kill spell and not just 50 or so necrotic damage; it's not like those guys would have too much HP.

There is no fucking way a HP wizard is going to beat an elf with a hummingbird familiar, improved initiative and nerveskitter at the init roll.

>>50695408
The protagonist is literally the guy who survived the killing curse. So there's ways at least.

>>50695732

Harry's speels are the only thing that can block Voldemort's spells.

Voldemort, being a narcissistic being, tried to attach himself to Harry as close as possible and try to take Harry's powers, which Harry actually doesn't have.

Death spells used by Voldermort can only be blocked by Harry, because Voldemort used harry's blood to revive hismelf, because he bonded their destinies by fulfilling a prophecy, because harry's and voldemort's original wands were from the same phoenix and ebcause, in the alst fght, the wand of wands was not properly obeying Voldemort and actually was Harry's wand by duel rights.

So, yes, the Death curse can be blocked by Harry's spell, in this specific scenario.

>>50695809

See

>>50695809

He only survived a spell due to ancient magic that required his mother sacrifice to trigger and a prophecy to be fulfilled. Really specific scenario.

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>>50695732
You make an excellent point: Due to a somewhat unreliable narrator, we cannot clearly convert HP logic to definite statements or exact numbers.

Of course, this is a “X vs Y” thread in the first place, where much of the enjoyment is derived from what-ifs, moving the goalposts/circumstances of the engagement, and the very inability to compare the two subjects.

>>50695764
Oh, absolutely – HP wands are like training wheels or a catalyst for shaping the energies involved in spellcasting, and there are entire wandless traditions. There are also metamagic feats for D&D wizards to achieve much the same. I don’t think we can accurately tell whether a quickened silent still spell or a non-enunciated curse is faster. The instant binding is possibly devastating to D&D wizards, though, seeing as it seems to require neither attack roll nor save. It could be counterspelled, perhaps, but it’s a good example of where HP mages are strongest. (They can also cast it as often as they want.)

>>50695735
>(Meta pumped magic missile anyone?)
>Chained Repeat Chain Missile cast for three turns straight
It's like unleashing an AA point defense battery on infantry. The more targets, the more damage everyone involved takes. That alone can wipe armies.

>>50695843

You do have to enunciate the spell in your mind, in the HP wizard case, so it should be as fast as the usual speed of human tought.

>>50695421
HPMoR is fanfiction. It is not canon.

>>50695843

Actually, in the death spell part:

>>50695840
>>50695817

The only 2 clearly stated ways the Death curse was ever bounced off/blocked was precisely between HP and Voldemort.

Also, the Death Curse requires intent. I can see a stray death curse not connecting or being able to be blocked by a strong enough wizard, but if a wizard casts a death spell in someone SPECIFIC, he's dead.

>>50695905
Damn, my Simulacrum died.

>>50695817

>Voldemort, being a narcissistic being, tried to attach himself to Harry as close as possible and try to take Harry's powers, which Harry actually doesn't have.

I'll give you the other stuff as reasonable arguments, but this literally did not happen. He didn't mean to attach himself to Harry, his soul latched on to Harry because it was the closest living thing after the killing curse rebounded. This piece of soul was then destroyed by Voldemort himself prior to the final battle. The only powers he tried to take was Lily's protection specifically so he could touch and harm Harry, which worked. However this has no effect on Harry casting against Voldemort.

>>50695843
IMHO a good stand-in for a HP wizard in D&D is a warlock with much larger invocation repertoire and ability to quicken any invocations through training. Up to most powerful but with progressively larger cost in time and effort required.

Such a beast should be able to keep up with non-cheesed wizards and even beat them until higher level. But at the top there is too much bullshit D&D wizards can pull off.

>>50695865
Oh my. Imagine a HP wizard getting his hands on epic-level statboosting items from D&D. (There is also intuitive magic that, by definition, lacks the shape of a spell – like making a pane of glass vanish. I wonder how that figures in.)

>>50695905
Oh, a properly-cast death spell is almost certainly unblockable and requires no save, and I didn’t deny that – but would still need an attack roll, no? Hence the Haste/Cat’s Grace.

>>50695890

That was stated by Bellatrix in the 4th book, when Harry tried to use Crucio on her, another unforgivable curse, but it didn't stick because he doesn't really wants to kill or hurt another human being.

You have to be a sociopath or a sadist to properly use a unforgivable spell, because righteous fury and emotions brought up by good feelings don't stick.

>>50695940
What it says is that you have to mean it. You want to legitimately want the person dead. You can't just not care if they live or die. That's HPMoR-exclusive.

>>50695929

The fifth book was all about Voldemort trying to take Harry's mind and body to himself and try to understand what was "the power that the lord of Darkness would never grasp" which turns out was the power of love.

Yes, for a while, Voldemort was all about getting close to Harry's mind, at the very least.

>>50695940

Also Bellatrix said that on the 5th book, not 4th.

>>50695934

It certainly does, I don't remember one occasion where the Death curse was used without a wand, since it's such a powerful spell. You could dodge in a open fight, for sure.

>>50695963

No, It's in the fucking book. BELLATRIX said herself.

I have the page right here, in fact:

-You never used an unforgivable curse before, did you boy? - She screamed, she abandoned her baby voice- you ahve to WANT to use them, Potter! you gotta really want to cause pain, take pleasyre from it. Justified anger doesn't hurt for long.

Roughly translated from my country's official release version.

So, yes not fanfiction.

>>50695408
>but those spells have saving throws.
What level should we assume HP wizards have?
Would Cloudkill waste them without a save?

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>>50695930
That’s a fair assessment. Where exactly do you suppose the D&D cheese really starts taking off? There’s a fair difference between levels 11 and 17, and I guess part of it comes down to the magic level of our supposed campaign, too.

And how do you think hit points (HP is an unfortunate abbreviation here) should be treated? You can narrate/imagine them as some sort of vital force or a talent to be pushed less towards an inability to fight when subjected to the same attack – how does one measure a HP wizard’s HP?

File: reanimated dumbledore using a Wand of Death that penetrates anti-magic shields.jpg (119KB, 900x668px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50696056
Conversely, how does Immunity to Death Effects or spells of the Necromancy school (as could feasibly be granted by a magical item in any version of D&D) interact with the killing curse? How does a HP wizard fare against golems? Demonfire and concussive spells able to smash stone are available, but how good are they against adamantine constructs? How about the undead? I’d love to see Voldemort take on an epic-level Pale Master.

Does Spell Turning work against the killing curse?

>>50696062
Well wizards start to speed up at level 6 and leave most martials in the dust around level 12.

Probably level 15 to lose most chances of winning against a non-cheesed D&D wizard. Those D&D wizards who are more underhanded can probably do it around level 9 - but most of them would be evil and would make Voldemort look like an amateur.

About hit-points: you can actually leave them as is if you want to mash it with d20 system. d4 HP per level with most Harry Potter wizards being much less inclined to train physically and dropping more into Dexterity. D&D wizards normally go [intelligence>constitution>dexterity] (to survive battles or poisons and not to drop from exhaustion during long rituals). Harry Potter wizards probably something like [intelligence=dexterity] with others being an afterthought.

>>50696115

Inferi are the equivalent of the magical zombie in the HP universe and they fear light and are badly hurt by fire, which a competent wizard can summon with ease.

>>50696308
Things that D&D necromancers consider good pets fear light and fire as much as hedgehogs fear naked asses.

>>50696175
No - it takes a sacrifice of love to do that.

Literally - it has happened exactly once, and required a (notably magical capable) mother to sacrifice herself for her son to turn back the killing curse. So the immediate answer is "fuck no."

>>50696062
>>50696255

The reason why most HP wizards don't bother with constitution or strength is because most of them rely on potions to treat those ailments and since they live in a fully realized society, they actually have a health system to treat more serious cases.

Moody was considered a paranoid for always keeping drinking from his own bottle, in fear of poison and such, despite most of them being easily cured, if identified.

>>50696353

Sorry, I don't get the comparison.

Since only a few of you have actually read the books,l apparently, the fight between Dumbledore and Voldemort considests of zero spell names, and only the vaguest of gestures (and NOT solely wand gestures!) and included instant animation and enhancement of statues, blasting effects and shields that went off instantaneously and simultaneously, instant possession, and destroyed the inside of a large building which was magically enchanted specifically to avoid being damaged by magic.

In the course of less than a minute.

D&D casters cannot keep up with high level HP universe casters at all.

>>50696308
A basic D&D zombie or skeleton can probably be reduced to pulp or bone chips by a nice, basic Confringo (or a powerful Stupefy, the fallback combat spell per se), so while you are very correct that a HP wizard would dispose of them with ease, they’re hardly interesting. What of a powerful, flame-retardant death knight subjugated by a high-level wizard? I imagine that should be about as difficult to smash as the most resistant of magical beasts.

>>50696358
>it has happened exactly once,
In a universe that has no access to Spell Turning.
It's like looking at medieval Europe and saying planes are impossible - because there are no planes.

>>50696412

Hmm, I dunno. The HP society, as a whole, was shown to be able to keep pretty powerful dragons in captivity with reasonable levels of competence.

Maybe not on a one-on-one fight, but a death knight wouldn't be a problem for an Auror squad (Basically the equivalent of the special ops of the magical society) would have a way to fight it.

>>50696115

> Conversely, how does Immunity to Death Effects or spells of the Necromancy school (as could feasibly be granted by a magical item in any version of D&D) interact with the killing curse?

Death effects are Negative Energy powered in DnD, which is why the same effects that make you immune to Death Magic also usually make you immune to energy drain and such.

The Killing Curse doesn't draw on that same energy source, it just destroys the link between your soul and your body. So soul manipulation magic is what a DnD wizard needs to prepare for to survive the killing curse. Not sure what options are available there.

> How does a HP wizard fare against golems?

Hogwarts was defended by golems in the final battle, the dark wizards were hardly powerless against them.

> Demonfire and concussive spells able to smash stone are available, but how good are they against adamantine constructs?

About as good as anyone is going to be against an epic level handbook enemy that requires a 20th level spellcaster to de-level themselves to make on top of spending an absurd amount of gold worth of materials to craft.

> How about the undead?

Probably better than a DnD wizard will do against Dementors.

>>50696505
>The Killing Curse doesn't draw on that same energy source,
Then why does it require a passion for murder?

>>50696478
>>50696175

Except they do exist. Spells that turn spells back towards the caster aren't rare and they have been mentioned several times.

The unforgivable curses: Imperio, Crucio and Avada Kedavra are unique in the setting for not having counterspell or ways to bounce it off, EXCEPT for very restricted scenarios mentioned in this thread, specially the death curse.

Imperio and Crucio, for example, can be resisted through willpower, but it's really rare and only if you are aware of the spell being thrown at you. Most Imperio controlled people were taken control outside combat and by surprise, for example.

>>50696505
>Probably better than a DnD wizard will do against Dementors.
I imagine summoning a Nishruu might work.

>>50696537

Because if you don't really want the enemy dead, you won't hit them with enough force to kill them.

Harry Potter magic is entirely mental. The words and the wands are just a focus to help you concentrate, which is why skilled magicians don't need either while they are indispensible to children.

If you don't have the hate behind it, you are subconsciously 'pulling your punch' on the killing curse. Its not like pulling a trigger, where as long as it happens the result is the same. Its like hitting someone with a baseball bat. If you want to hurt someone with it, you need to hit someone like you mean it.

>>50696409
To be fair, this was a fight between Merlin-reborn wielding the most powerful wand known at the time as it's true master, and the darkest wizard in history. No one we've ever met is anywhere close to their level.

>>50696537

Magic in HP is more about intent than power. Wizards in HP aren't measured by Raw power, They are measured by talent and creativity.

Magic isn't a power source, Magic is a talent. So you have to have INTENT to use anything, spell chanting and the like don't do nothing unless some emotion is behind it.

The reason why people don't usually get exhausted by using magic in the HP universe is the same reason why people don't get exhausted by doing math in their head. It may cause mental fatigue after lots of mental effort, but there's no power source to waste or to tap in.

>>50696604
>>50696409

Anon here makes a fair point. That's like top tier levels of combat in HP universe. The Aurors, the combat team of the magic world, use much more practical spells and tactics in usual combat.

>>50696588

Dunno. Dementors don't use magic, they just... are magic. Like the Nishruu are.

I'd imagine that the two creatures would just ignore each other. Neither is a valid food source for the other. Nishruu, however, can actually be destroyed by elemental damage.

>>50696409
You mean if they show up to the fight at all you may have a chance.

Personal fighting against a high level D&D wizard is a fight vs flying invisible burrowing and who knows what doing paranoid and probably immortal man (in best case) or even dragon. We are talking here about people who drop a timestop and go to another plane with sped-up time for a couple of hours or days to think about their strategy and tactics. They also probably have some bullshitty magic items. Marrying your own staff is completely okay for a D&D wizard. Because this sttaff is more intelligent than 99% of people in the world and can use its own magical abilities (and considering that polymorph exists there is no problems with sex).

Even if you somehow nail him in most cases it would lead to one of the resurrection schemes being activated and you get one really angry wizard in unknown location who is now going to hunt you down from the shadows.

Don't forget that many D&D spells don't miss and some can't be even resisted. Though for upper bound wizards save DCs can be so high that difference isn't that big.

>>50696554
>Except they do exist.
No, different spells exist.
Spell Turning is a DnD spell.
We know that the curse can theoretically be turned because it happened once under exceptional circumstances.
We know that Spell Turning is a different spell from what the HP wizards use.
Therefore, it is not logical to assume that it is impossible for Spell Turning to block the avada kedavra.

>>50696653

Dementors feed of good feelings, not necessarily magic. One of them almost killed Dudley in the 5th book, so whatever they feed off, isn't magic.

Do Nishruus have minds developed enough to feel emotion? Because dementors ignore whatever creatures that can't have more developed emotions or toughts, like dogs. It's a main plot point in the 3rd book.

>>50692612
>Aha, all you have are your muggle weapons! I can deflect those whimsical bullets with a flick of my wr-
>BRAPAPAPAPAPAP
>uuurrgh... those bullets are much faster than I anticipated

Without some spell allowing a wizard to permanently obtain supersonic reflexes he's fucked against an ordinary gun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YsYWT5Q_R_w

>>50696709

It's also not logical to assume it will work, since we don't know how it will work in the HP world.

>>50696718
>Do Nishruus have minds developed enough to feel emotion?
Their description only says they are not afraid in combat.

>>50696604
>>50696647
Except that Dumbledore has repeatedly mentioned there are other wizards more capable than he is in various aspects of magic. The alchemist who made the Philosopher's Stone, for instance, Moody, who made an artefract to replace his eye, and Dumbledore has said there has never been a better potionmaster than Snape, who created a spell that basically can slice someone open and also has the skill to heal it. Dumbledore isn't the only eminent wizard in the books, only the one who dared stand up to Voldemort personally.

But the important thing is speed.

McGonagal and Snape were throwing spells lefgt and right at high speed in their duel - and mind you, Snape was redirectign her spells to take out the badguys around him on purpose - so their duel is reminiscent of another case of high speed magic use, again with only gestures to throw a number of spells rapidly.

Six seconds is a long time when your opponent twitches his wand and casts a spell.

>>50696737
>It's also not logical to assume it will work
Of course.
I asked to point out the possibility that it might work.
I find it obvious however that if the two universes were to interact with each other for too long, the DnD wizards would find a block to the spell, because it's what they do.

>>50696733

Except the whole point of destroying the horcruxes was because if a wizard really wants to, he can never be actually killed. Also healing spells, protection spells, etc. Also:

>Linking to meme joke videos.

Nice source there, buddy. It was also already discussed here that HP wizards can potentially cast spells at the speed of tought, so what's faster: A bullet or a tought?

>>50695817
>blocking

You'd think they'd just teach kids to fucking dodge.

These spells don't seem to be insanely fast. Maybe the speed of a roman candle or a bottle rocket.

If you played enough dodgewand in PE you'd probably get pretty damn good at it and I get the feeling even Voldermort can't run around blasting killing curses every second of the day.

>>50696737
>>50696709
>>50696778
Except there are spell reflectign spells in HP universe which DO deflect and turn spells - Snape himself used a spell to redirect other spells that MacGonagal was casting, so we know for a fact they are aware of spell redirection and spell turning.

Since we know for a fact that Voldemort has killed much more powerful wizards before, it is safe to assume that they couldn't turn the Killing Curse back on him despite knowing that it is possible to redirect and reflect spells.

>>50696490
Well there is a reason while D&D society doesn't generally keep their dragons in captivity. Almost all of them are also sorcerers. Which is only a little step below wizard. Older dragons are also much bigger and more powerful than HP dragons.

>>50696810
>forgetting that spells can be moved around to follow people
A blocked spell ceases to exist. A dodged spell might not.

>>50696796
Still a bullet.

I'll shoot at you, and you think of the right word to stop a bullet before it hits you.

Still gonna lose, do you seriously think your brain is that quick? Your unconscious reflexes aren't fast enough to dodge bullets, why the fuck would your conscious brain be any more capable?

>Healing spells
heal 2 in the chest before 1 in the head, sure.

>protection spells
Only the GOAT wizards can actually lay permanent spells on themselves as far as we've seen, and I get the feeling that a spell permanently shielding you from incoming projectiles could get nasty when you attempt to high five your pal or catch a ball.

>out-thinking bullets

>>50696810

Nope, the Death curse is directly shown and described as a green lighting and seemingly instantenous.

But yes, dodging does work in fights, which most younger wizards do.

BUT THEN AGAIN, we already stated that spell can be cast without wand waving or enunciation and they aren't always a projectile. If someone starts dodging your spells, use a spell that can't be seen or heard.

>>50696831
>Except there are spell reflectign spells in HP universe which DO deflect and turn spells
Yes. We've been over this.

>>50696796
>what's faster: A bullet or a tought?
Thoughts are much slower than people think.

>>50696877

>do you seriously think your brain is that quick?

Fast enough to yell a word inside my head on the spot, fuck yes.

>Only the GOAT wizards can actually lay permanent spells

Who said permanent? The 6th book shows the Weasley twins creating a hat that bounces off projectiles as a joke.

How about you actually learn the source material before spouting bullshit?

AND it was also stated that wizard can teleport without requiring wands, they have potions and health care that can cure shit like lost limbs easily, etc.

>>50696856
Sure but it's better than getting killed by a spell you can't block, not to mention that most of these duels tend to take place in places with plenty of shit to duck behind and move around.

I'm not saying dodging is ideal, I'm just saying that not being able to block a spell isn't exactly the end of the argument.

And I might add that at the speed that spells do travel at, the arc of a U-turn would give you plenty of time to retaliate, thus making a tracking spell a relatively wasteful move to make.

I do presume the spells are only as nimble as the caster's own reflexes

>>50696932
>Fast enough to yell a word inside my head on the spot, fuck yes.
Sorry to disappoint you, but no.

>>50695244
>Ward spells exist
I'm afraid "wards" are fanon, anon. The closest thing we've got to wards in the canon are the professors putting a super-protego around the school, and whatever weird effect Harry's blood protection was.

>>50696904
>>50696877


Thinking up one word isn't that slow. Even more so if your life depends on it. Also guns aren't instaneous, you gotta pull the trigger, aim it, etc.

A confusion spell and the guy forgets how to shoot.

>>50696952

Do you have any source with the exact speed of thought?

>>50696964
>Thinking up one word isn't that slow.
It is.
>Even more so if your life depends on it.
It's even slower when you are under adrenaline, in combat mode.

>>50696982
It's roughly the speed at which you vocalize stuff in your head, or read.

>>50696962

Then all those spells hermione used when they were travelling around the UK when they were camping also don't count?

>>50696998

No actual source and your argument doesn't hold.

>>50696964
Average wizards have all the same drawbacks to be fair.

>>50696998

But then again. you are ignoring the fact that.

>The 6th book shows the Weasley twins creating a hat that bounces off projectiles as a joke

>>50697027

Sure, but people think that shooting a gun is instantenous, nobody can see it coming and trumps any magical counteraction, despite the HP society basically mocking guns when they are mentioned in the 3rd movie.

Even if I don't have a surefire answer, they clearly have counteractions for it since they are so blase about it.

>>50696932
You're seriously telling me that if I asked what color signal means stop you could think "Red" fast enough to stop a supersonic projectile? Okay.

>a Hat that bounces off projectiles as a joke
was anyone shooting bullets at this hat?

>source material
the source material is riddled with plot holes as is any fantasy book and multiple autistic re-readings would reveal little more information on the mechanics of witchcraft than the first.

>lost limbs
we're not talking about lost limbs, we're talking about a debilitating projectile ripping a hole in your torso (or head) with enough force to knock you on your ass. And you think you're going to be able to flick your wrist and seal that up before another barrage tears four or five more though you?

So yeah, the Flash with a wand could beat an average Joe with a 9mm. But short of that a gun really is a much more practical option unless context calls for a prolonged battle where ammunition would become an issue

>>50697065

Also the 3rd book and a bit of dialogue between the muggle prime minister and Fudge in the first chapter of the 6th book.

>>50697079

>Disregarding source material.

Then why bother discussing?

>>50696964
>you gotta pull the trigger, aim it, etc
none of that matters, if you put up your shield spell the guy with the gun can just wait for you to drop it and immediately shoot. You would have to block AFTER they fire, or instantaneously. You might get lucky once or twice but then you're fucked.

>a confusion spell and the guy forgets how to shoot.
A bullet and you forget how to breathe or pump blood to your limbs.

>>50696998
There is no functional difference between aiming a gun and aiming a wand. Either one can be used to snipe people under the right circumstances, and either one can be dealt with bunder other circumstances, and both can be deadly under still other circumstances. You point, aim, and pull the trigger/will the spell.

>>50697025
>assert that you can think faster than bullets
>assert that bullets are faster than your thoughts

Yeah, I'm gonna say the burden of proof lies on Artemis fucking Fowl over here.

>>50697065

Which is weird, because Rowling did say that average random muggle with shotgun > average magical citizen with wand.

On the other hand, wizards are kind of blase about a lot of things they shouldn't be. Pride and hideboundness is the wizard callling card.

>>50697115

Oh boy, do you have any solid sources on how long a shield spell can last?

Spells can be attached to items just fine, the Shield hat mentioned above can work for at least a whole day, since it was meant to be used as a gag toy.

>>50697065
>despite the HP society basically mocking guns when they are mentioned in the 3rd movie.
That's because they consider muggles to be below them.
Most wizards take muggle classes to figure out who the muggles are. How many wizards do you think actually got shot at with a gun?

>>50697037
>projectiles
if you threw that hat in front of a train, what would win?

If you threw it in front of a stunning spell?

If you threw it in front of Hagrid at a dead sprint?

If you threw it in front of a .306?

>>50697138

She did say that, but we are arguing a 1v1 fight with a wizard fighting a muggle with a shotgun.

This whole discussion is kind of pointless because a wizard, if met with an enemy he doesn't understand, would just teleport away.

>>50697110
>imblygnig
I'm not disregarding it. I'm saying an intimate knowledge shines no more light on this argument than a passing knowledge, as at no point in this universe was the situation brought to pass.

>>50694524
>Gating in enough Celestial Dire Crocodiles to spontaneously resurrect Steve Irwin.

I think I'll unironically use this in my campaign.

>>50697127
>There is no functional difference between aiming a gun and aiming a wand.
But there is a difference between pulling a trigger and saying a full word.

>>50697065
They're blase about it because they're all ignorant about the muggle world, not because they understand it and find it laughably ineffectual.

>>50697167

They never specified and the original version of the hat was meant to be a party trick, they said the ministry soon took some and started modifying for Auror use.

They said it could bounce of mid-level spell and stupefy, which is considered basically a concussion spell.

>>50697186

Then why bother discussing? If we don't have enough material and you will disregard the info we do have, it's a pointless conversation.

>>50697195

Except, if you had actually read the thread, it was already stated that the wand waving and spell chanting is not obligatory and a competent wizard doesn't have to do either.

>>50697115
>gun can just wait for you to drop it
At which point you can start blasting him with spells before it ever drops.

Guns do not make anyone invincible, no matter how butthurt you are about it.

Another setting with guns and wizards were the Windrose Chronicles, where if you pointed a gun at a wizard it was considered an act of suicide unless you had the bun made of non-magical metal or protected with antimagic runes.

Guns are precision instruments, and it takes very little to fuck one up. A few millimeters off the firing pin, an extra few thousands of metal in the barrel, or even a little less gunpowder and you have a hunk of useless metal.

>>50697157
No, do you?
and again, do your sources indicate that an adult wizard of moderate skill can cast such a spell powerful enough to block repeated supersonic projectiles while exhausting themselves by casting offensive spells while it is under effect?

Why do you keep referencing this fucking hat? We have bullets that can puncture tank armor, I'm not bringing them up because it's an absurd precaution to carry a Boys rifle around with you lest you come to blows with an armored division, and yet you seem to think a wizard would find it necessary to place an insanely elaborate high-powered shield spell on themselves prior to engaging with the muggle populace

>>50697079
>>50696877
>>50696733

GUYS, REMEMBER WHEN THE THREAD WAS ABOUT D&D WIZARDS AND HP WIZARDS, NOT STUPID "GUNS BETTER THAN MAGIC"?

>>50697254
An 11 year old child can levitate a treetrunk with no effort.

You honestly think an adult wizard can't push a man's arms up with a wave of his wand and prevent the gun from aiming at him?

>>50697217
So it could bounce a rubbet bullet, .22s or maybe birdshot.

But (if there's any /k/ in thread who would like to correct me) anything as small as .30 or 9mm could be considered a high-level spell, like an unforgivable curse or on the lower end Snape's lacerating curses.

>>50695091
>Wizard School: 7 years
>Level 1-20 Campaign: A few months
I think the DnD Wizards have this one in the bag.

>>50695366
>But that only matters if they get the chance to cast them.
Contingency.

>>50697254

Oh boy, People walk around with anti-tank ammon all over the place, right?

Also guns can't be thrown away by a bounce spell, they are attached to the person's hand, wizards can't teleport, wizards can't turn into animals, wizards can't shapeshift objects into other objects, they can't confuse people, they can't take control of another person's mind, they can't have common sense and not fight a person they don't know with a weapon they don't understand.

Yes, anon. Maybe take a bullet to the face with a protection spell might not be a good idea, but stretching what is plausible in a encounter like that and limiting what a wizard will do also doesn't help your discussion.

The wizard wouldn't take a bullet, they'd try not to fight fair.

>>50695554
DnD Wizards can do all of that.

>I'm sure a DnD wizard would also easily die from a stray bullet. unless they are a lich or something.
A bullet from a handgun does 2d6 damage, so not really. The AC and Saves of a high-level Wizard would probably enable them to just stand there and ignore the HP wizards.

>>50697242
I'm not disregarding your info I'm saying it doesn't clarify our argument and I stand by that. A solid wood door will deflect a number of smaller, softer objects no matter how forcefully thrown or launched. But it will not stop a point-blank mid-caliber round. Your hat, regardless of precedent set and upgraded, still does not demonstrate the potential for an average wizard to effectively block bullets without prior knowledge of the encounter.

>>50695091
>>50697305

They have the advantage of, usually, not being in life threathning situations and having the powers since childhood.

The school just teaches you how to use the power you already have. You HAVE to have certain levels to use certain spells, HP wizards, in theory, can use any high level spell as long as they train enough and someone teaches them.

Harry managed to learn Expecto Patronum, a high-level 7th year spell in his 3rd year and managed to teach it to other 5th year students with just a few sessions of training.

>>50697138
Because "the average Wizard" doesn't have any real tools.
He is just a civilian.
He doesn't have amulets, potions, charms or blessings ready for the sake of Out of Nowhere Mortal Combat.
His reacting to getting shit is to go into Shock, or to panic Apparition somewhere.


There is also a reason she says "Shotgun".
She has enough of understanding of Hunting to understand the difference.
Spread means a shotgun shot is fatal by merely aiming in the right direction.

>>50697247
>other settings
not the discussion

>it takes very little to fuck one up
which is why we make them so precisely. A wand can be easily fucked up as well, but that would assume fault before the encounter ever began.

>blasting with spells before it ever drops
again, no evidence of passive shield spells of sufficient power in HP.

>>50692400
Harry Potter wizards are pussies. Can't even handle one lich

>>50692400
Anyone having version of this pic with elf saying "i don't even know these people"?

>>50697349
>50697349

I'm working with an optimal idea. If you want to argue your average, run-on-the-mill wizard againist a gun, sure. The same thing would happen with most magic users that aren't ready to be shot.

A wizard, expecting to be shot, would certainly have the equipment and resources to stop a gun or at least have a chance to.

>>50697348

Would that dice Roll also apply in the HP universe?

>>50697304
It was made by teenagers, any wizard with the talent and will could make something stronger. Hell, it'd probably be as easy as slapping "Totalus" behind the enchantment and wanting it really hard.

>>50697409
dude was way craftier than a lich. Seven phylacteries.

>>50697428
>Would that dice Roll also apply in the HP universe?
Why shouldn't it?

>>50696409
>D&D casters cannot keep up with high level HP universe casters at all.
M8, even a humble fireball has a range of hundreds of feet. When have you ever seen a HP use a spell at greater than spitting distance?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=adtM47RU2tc

Dumbledore can do this kinda of stuff when he is clearly weakened.

Id say HP wizards have a chance.

But in terms of potential id say d&d wins

>>50697477

Because a bullet, if we follow this discussion here, would certainly kill a HP wizard, if you take directly.

If we use the DnD mechanics for a HP wizard, then a shot wouldn't guarantee death, since we are arguing that a wizard has at least base human stats in terms of health and con.

>>50697471
About as crafty as one of those sand Liches from the Sandstorm book then.

>>50695817
>using headcannon as argument

>>50697523
>>Because a bullet, if we follow this discussion here, would certainly kill a HP wizard, if you take directly.
But that's because HP wizards never go up in levels. They are level 1 humans with lots of spells.
DnD wizards to rise in levels and get more difficult to kill even without their magical defenses.

File: InloDpl.jpg (52KB, 600x400px) Image search: [Google]

52KB, 600x400px

>>50697382
>Spread means a shotgun shot is fatal by merely aiming in the right direction.
God dammit, when will this meme end?

>>50697532
>>50697409

To be fair, Liches and soul jars aren't common place in the HP universe. I'm sure they'd have tried to fight Voldermort differently during his rise to power if they knew he had soul jars all over the place to not die.

Even the Horcrux concept is mostly unknown to people that don't actually study magic in depth, like scholars and even less people knew how to actually make the horcruxes.

>>50697276
GOD DAMMIT WE'RE GOING WITH IT
>>50697287
>levitate a treetrunk with no effort
uhh, quite a bit of effort if I recall and this wasn't exactly a slow process. Not to mention it was a limb, which is a couple hundred pounds lighter than a tree trunk.

>push a man's arms up with a wave of his wand
yes, if he can wave his arm faster than the other man can squeeze his fist.

>>50697329
Well now I know you're just not reading these arguments because my whole point was that nobody carries a tank rifle on them, and neither would a wizard place a ward of equivalent power on themselves prior to such an engagement.

>wizards can't teleport
uhh
>wizards can't turn into animals
umm
>wizards can't shapeshift objects into other objects
well
>they can't confuse people
ahh
>they can't take control of another person's mind
okay

I'm guessing you got a little mixed up there. But the issue here is that all of these things require a wizard to do them faster than or prior to having a gun pulled on them. And as fantastic as these things are, they are not the most efficient solution to defeating an opponent, which is killing them as quickly and directly as possible upon encountering them. Why turn shit into badgers or try to control their mind when your quickest and most efficient combo would be a stunning spell?

>they wouldn't fight fair
no point in getting creative in a quick draw


>>50697348
>from a stray bullet
nigga they can die from a stray cat.

>>50697581
Because if you have tried to shoot, you know that "aiming in the right direction" means you are maybe half a degree of mark.
Its very little
Where Dead on Target is when you have aimed properly at what you want to hit, and will hit if ballistics and trembling cooperate.

>>50697593
>nigga they can die from a stray cat.
At level 1, yes, but a level 1 wizard isn't a very frightening enemy, outside of casting sleep and butchering you with a scythe.

>>50697545

Dumbledore explains all those point at the end of book 6 and 7. BUT I'll give it to you that he himself said that most of what he said is speculation and theorycrafting because Voldemort and Harry's situation was so unique.

It's headcannon, but it's Dumbledore's headcannon. So, cannon headcannon.

>>50697523

Also Kadavra would be a saveless, immunity-piercing insta-death in DnD.

>>50697553

Hmmm, I dunno. Can humans in the HP universe level up?

They don't seem to have level restrictions for their spells, they would be considered versatiles glass cannons in the DnD universe.

If you kill a dragon in the HP universe, you'd get XP?

>>50697593
>nigga they can die from a stray cat.
Are you discussing level 1 DnD wizards?

>>50697428
>expecting to be shot
anyone expecting to be shot would get out of town. We're talking about a chance encounter.

Wizards all conceal carry, we're assuming one were to bump into a CCing muggle while doing a bit of shopping and let's just say he fucked his muggle wife and he's still a bit sour about it.

>your run of the mill wizard against a gun
that's precisely what I'm arguing. This isn't Rambo vs Snape. This is Draco Malfoy vs George Zimmerman.

>>50697433
>something stronger
yes but how MUCH is the question.
>slapping totalus on it and wanting it really hard
okay, well by that logic we're basically giving all wizards license to be Auror-tier just by "really wanting it hard"

>>50697655
That would make it the only one of the three curses that can't be saved against.
It's much more likely that they are dying to the secondary damage of the spell, since they are much more vulnerable than DnD wizards.
http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Finger_of_Death

>>50697433
and I might add those teenagers were boy-geniuses when it came to hexes and jinxes

>>50692444
Did you see fantastic beasts? Because rebuilding my city in 5 minutes is pretty bullshit

Hell, even in the main series, the magical principals behind time turners are p pretty broken

>>50697673
>Hmmm, I dunno. Can humans in the HP universe level up?
Nope.
Because their universe functions differently. They don't have levels. Their spells don't have levels either.

>>50697593

My argument here is survival.

They can shapeshift into an animal instantaniously, or pretty damn fast, so the shooter would have to know they'd shape shift, know the height of the animal, etc.

Snape could turn into a bat. He did it so fast people couldn't follow with their eyes. He flies away.

>no point in getting creative in a quick draw

When the other option is dying, you can get pretty creative when magic is your tool.

And teleportation is also described as almost instantanious. So also a possibility.

>>50697522
just reminded me
>wizard
>just summon everything you need
>doesn't carry a canteen on him
>somebody decides to jinx a potential water source
A lot of HP is wizards being magically stupid. I'm surprised they even bothered to wear clothes.

>>50697746

Then it's pointless to argue Damage if you don't argue where the fight is being set.

Would HP wizards get levels in the DnD universe? would DnD wizards keep levels if they were in the HP universe?

I tought we were arguing more spell mechanics than game mechanics here.

>>50697772

Lack of practicality is a common theme in HP.

In the book,at least, they did show that summoning water was impossible, because the water summoned would disappear as soon as it was summoned in the isalnd.

>>50697803
>I tought we were arguing more spell mechanics than game mechanics here.
We are, but there is a different ability to survive things for DnD mages depending on their level.
If you are going to argue what would put them down, you need to take that into account.
A level 1 DnD wizard almost dies from stubbing his toe, or getting scratched by a cat.
A level 20 DnD wizard can fall out of a 5 story building, and then put his head back on and pretend nothing happened.

>>50697730

Are you arguing that humans would be inherently more durable as a DnD wizard than a HP wizard? Because HP doesn't really quantify hit points in the same way.

If you do assume a difference, then a DnD wizard could win just by running up to a HP wizard while invisible and knifing him.

>>50695402
>And that's where protection spells come in. You can cast them ahead of time.
Like say, a hat enchanted with a shield spell? Because Weasley's wizard wheezes sells those. In bulk

>>50697881
>put his head bac
I meant his *HAT*.
I'm not talking undead wizards here.
Fuck.

>>50697886
>a DnD wizard could win just by running up to a HP wizard while invisible and knifing him.
But he could do that anyway, with or without the difference.

>>50692400
Ok, you guys have to be fucking kidding me

Saving throw or no saving throw, one common weakness to all HP's universe spells is that they are ALL ranged touch attacks.

Even the killing curse can be dodged (See the final scene of book 4, when harry dodges all the Death Eaters curses, including voldemort's Avada Kedavra in the cemetery), so if doesn't connect it has no effect, period.

Now, even a middle level DnD wizard will have protective gear that would put his defenses and reflexes well above normal human level. From boosted Dextery to deflective itens (not to mention ethereal form, concealement, mirror image like effects, etc), an DnD wizard will be way more protected from being hit by a lumnous jet of light than a normal teenager.

Which is precisely what happens all over the books. Normal human teenanger, not specifically athletic in any way (harry being the exception, but his sports prowess are not even in the league of top human performance, as seen in his amazement when watching Krum play in the World's Finals) dodging left and right powerfull killing spells.

So yeah, a average adult HP wizard against a middle level DnD wizard would be a no contest. HP would throw 2 or 3 curses the DnD wizard would easily dodge (being, at this level, probably already super human in agility and speed, boosted by itens he would be wearing, even if didn't have any spell already cast on him) then he would use any of the many numbers of spells he could muster that HP wizards have no defense whatsoever besides their quick reflexes. Heck, a magic missile cast by a 7th level wizard would probably be enough to kill everyone on the series apart from Hagrid.

Maybe Dumbledore would be able to hold his own against a middle to high level wizard (certainly nothing close to lvl 17th or god forbid epic), but keep in mind that he probably is one of the most powerfull wizards that ever lived and is certainly the most powerfull and accomplished alive at that time

>>50697760
So a wizard could beat a muggle in a 1v1, by running away.

That's not winning. That's running. That's not even circumventing.

And I suppose if we're presuming CC then yeah, most animal forms would be fairly hard to track. But now you're an animal that can't cast magic fighting a human with a gun. Unless your animagus is a bear or a falcon you're fucked again.

Your argument may be survival but this isn't a "wizard is hunted by muggle" situation, it's a "wizard v muggle" situation, as in both wish to leave unscathed and defeat the other either by death or pacification.

No doubt a wizard is a fantastic swiss army knife of a combatant. An actual prolonged WAR with wizards would end horribly for muggles, or even a largescale fight. But 1v1 without prior preparation a wizard is essentially a muggle who has zero physical conditioning, cheap body armor, and a slow gun that doesn't run out of ammo.

>>50697647
nowhere in the books Dumbledore ever states that harry could block Voldemort's spells in other people... you are literally making this up

>>50697886
>Are you arguing that humans would be inherently more durable as a DnD wizard than a HP wizard?
Are you denying that?

>>50695764
>In the sixth book, the main non-enunciated spell used is one where an invisible force takes you by the ankle and dangles you upside down until you cast a counter spell to release it, also non-enunciated.
Isn't sectumsempra non-somatic, and (potentially) non-verbal as well?

>>50697934
>implying the HP wizard would not also be running around invisible with a knife
>implying it wouldn't be two wizards stumbling around invisible taking wild potshots at each other and occasionally slashing wildly at thin air with dull knives they never use
Now THAT is a PC encounter

>>50697943
>magical items
if we're counting this shit then we have to consider all the cheap BS curses a HP wizard could obtain at a joke shop.

Is this gonna be a fun match, or a "Fox, no items, final destination" match?

Because if so anything but wands and spellbooks are out.

>>50698024
Except the DnD wizard has stoneskin, True Seeing and Nondetection.

>>50698069
so he has already used 4 spell slots?

Not a great start, he's facing an enemy that is armed with what's quintessentially a handheld RPG with infinte ammo. The prospect is still dubious at best

>>50698069
Also, the DnD wizard's invisibility fails at least partially as soon as he does his first attack.

>>50697979

He said Voldemort spells don't work well on Harry because of their wands attachment, which lead to the golden cage incident in book 4 and the reason why harry could work againist voldemort's spells in the 7th book was because the wand of wands was his by conquest since he beat Draco Malfoy, the previous owner of the wand.

The ownership of the wand of wands was not explained byt ghost dumbledore, that fine. But Harry deduced from dumbledore explanation on how the wand got to him and Olivaras explanation how how wands change hands.

>>50698008

Sectumsempra is the one that leaves sword marks. The one I described is the one Harry's father uses on Snape in the flashback in Snape's memories and the one Harry tries to use on Snape in the end of the 6th book that makes Snape get really angry before leaving.

>>50698064
All characters in DnD have a wealth by level stat that they will use to buy magical itens. Magical itens are as integral to a player character like his BAB, his Saving throws and his class features.

Meanwhile, apart from joke itens (biting books, explosive wands, etc) that usually do no real harm to a person, and mundane day to day make your life easier itens (like molly's clock, or Arthur's flying car), combat magic itens are extremely rare in HP book, usually legendary in nature (like Harry's cloak).

So yeah, I'll give you all of a joke's shop invetory against WBL on the wizard. It won't even be a contest.

>>50697955

Man, you started the discussion about 1v1.

My argument started when I said guns wouldn't have made a difference in the fight againist voldemort, because he's much more prepared, paranoid and had an army of other non-bullet weak monsters like giants and dementors.

Even JK Rowling said the muggle would win, but I'm arguing that it wouldn't be an easy encounter or that the wizard would be able to retaliate.

In your scenario, point-blank range with a gun already aimed and ready to shoot, yes. But that's just the optimal scenario for a gun to be used and wizard would have several other options in several other scenarios.

If you want to argue guns vs magic, might as well go full blown and say the guy has a sniper rifle with miles of distance and Mach 3 speed bullets.

>>50698165
I know that, I was just pointing out that there's a fairly combat effective spell that can be cast just as easily as levicorpus

>>50696964
Bullet travels 30 ft way faster than nerve signal travels from eye to brain. Ergo, you won't even have time to start thinking after shot happened.

>>50698218

A joke shop inventory already stated to be able to deflect mid-level spells before the ministry actually got around to upgrading it.

Also combat items aren't "legendary". Harry's cape is legendary because it's the only truly complete invisible cape, that never wears out and always completely invisible, but invisible capes are well-known in the HP universe, but rarely used because Wizards can turn nearly completely invisible with a simple spell.

We never got around seeing actual combat items because we never get to see how the goverment would have prepared for battle, since they got taken over before they could actually put real resistance and the resistance groups had no resources.

DnD has more readily available combat magic items because combat is something that happens daily, but it doesn't mean the HP universe can't make, if necessary, equally efficient items.

Hell, they had time-rewinding clocks at their dsposal as an utility item and was readily available for a 13 year-old student, with a teacher's approval and the ministry approval.

>>50698218
Generally accurate, except Fred and George did create hats with protection spells woven into them if I remember correctly. I feel like the utility magic of Potter items is probably superior, I mean something like Universal Solvent or Sovereign glue is remarkably expensive in D&D but compared to some of the joke shop stuff it's practically nothing. There's also the vanishing cabinet and, well, stuff like the Room of Requirement. The Potter universe has some pretty crazy magic when it comes to objects and places, less so with stuff you can shoot at people.

I feel like between a low-level D&D wizard vs. a young Hogwarts student, the Wizard wins because their combat magic will one-shot the student. Between high level D&D wizards and, say, a Potter wizard on the scale of Dumbledore, I think the Potter wizard wins out. They're not limited in how many spells they can know and possibly even cast, they'll all have Teleport an infinite number of times per day, and they're about on par when it comes to Save or Suck and blasting magic. In the middle levels I think they'd balance out, but at higher levels I can't help feeling that Potter wizards have an edge.

>>50697090
>Two polititians speaking

Of course magic minister will tell that any magic child can beat a special ops team. But is it true?

>>50698390
Does the magic minister even know what muggle weapons are capable of?

>>50698378
Assuming that D&D wizard fights personally.

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>mfw this thread

>>50698255
>Even JK Rowling said the muggle would win, but I'm arguing that it wouldn't be an easy encounter or that the wizard would be able to retaliate.
She never fucking said this, you miserable retard.

If you're so sure she said it, FUCKING CITE THAT SHIT.

>>50697183
>>50697138
Where did she say this? WHERE DID SHE FUCKING SAY THIS?

You dense motherfuckers always insist this, and yet I've never seen a single fucking citation.

>>50698725
>>50698791
I'm not them, but have you considered googling it?

>>50698839
The burden of proof isn't on them, motherhood

>>50698839
That which is claimed without evidence may be dismissed without evidence.

Cite your fucking shit, or shut the fuck up.

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>>50698839
I actually have googled this before, but the only thing I ever find is people asking if the quote is real and someone else saying they googled it but only found people asking if the quote is real.

If this quote exists google cannot fucking find it.

>>50699071
>Berenstein Bears

>>50699071
Same. That's why I'm instant that they cite it, if they're so sure she actually said it.

All I get is shit like that, never a peep about its reality. Its stupid fanon that just gets bandied around.

>>50695376
There are plenty of spells (Maybe even the majority of spells) with casting times of a single standard action, which means they should be able to be cast in half a round, so roughly 3 seconds.

The real issue is that D&D Divinations are way better than HP ones, so the D&D Wizards always have the advantage of preparedness.

>>50695735
That's why it's the Batman question. They have time to prepare, they win

>>50697743
This.

They have infinite spells per day.

Teleportation is taught at age 15.

They can rebuild a city so well it looks just like it did before they fucked it up.

They can rewrite your memories so you forget the people who died.

They have an instikill spell.

They have time machines.

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>dumb fucks that have never been shot at are actually under the impression that they can think faster than a bullet

I guess it makes sense that people that play so much pretend would be so delusional?

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>>50700767
You've never seen me think.

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>>50700767
I thought part of the issue was the people on the gun side are assuming that gun is already up and aimed, requiring only a trigger pull to fire.

If the fight were under duel rules, for example, both the gunman (with a pistol) and the wizard would start with the weapon at their side and it would come down to whoever could draw faster, not necessarily how fast the bullet travels travels once it's fired. With a two handed gun like a rifle or shotgun (again assuming it's held in an unready position) the Wizard would have the advantage in the lighter weapon requiring only a flick of the wrist. It is conceivable that a wizard could think faster than a person readying a gun, aiming, and then firing.

>>50692400
4e Spellcasters.

I am a powerful dnd wizard. I cast solarity and gate in a balrog. What does Harry Do?

>tfw you're the only person in the world who likes DnD and Harry Potter magic both and likes to take the best aspects of both and combines them to make a superior magic system

>>50692400
No Harry Potter wizard can save against anything. End of story.

With D&D Wizards, you get things that damage you even if you dodge them (Fireball for instance). With HP Wizards, you get things that hurt you UNLESS you dodge them. My vote goes to team D&D.

What about the shenanigans that high level D&D wizards are apparently capable of? Looks like it hasn't been factored at all into the discussion.

>>50697887
>that scene where Rowling reveals that the Weasley twins are defense contractors on the side

>>50697486
Turn the fireball into a cloud of feathers, then into a cloud of knives to shoot at your opponent.

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>>50692400

>all those mortal plebs front and center arguing like their life depends on it
>the immortal chill elf in the back doesn't give a single shit because he'll outlive them a thousandfold

god why are elves so based?

This thread seems very biased towards HP wizards.

>>50695809
>The protagonist is literally the guy who survived the killing curse. So there's ways at least.
I mean, him surviving the killing curse was such a big deal that everyone talked him up as the chosen one and he was the most famous person in the entire wizarding world.

D&D Mages have the Hit Points to survive being immersed in lava have Saves that render most spells pointless and can do shit like travel through time turn themselves into a magically double hard planet of Obdurium and smash Hogwarts in a total of 6 seconds

>>50692400
D&D Wizards are based on Intelligence and thus have to be necessarily quite smart.
Harry Potter wizards are inherently morons. Even those that are supposed to be the wisest make the dumbest choices repeatedly. It's partly because the author can't write, but that's how it is.

If that wasn't enough, high-level D&D wizards can stop time, teleport through other planes, resist enemy spells, fortify themselves against damages and spells, and take quite a hell of a punishment even without magic (a 10th level wizard has 24+ HP on average - not much compared to other classes but still a lot compared to a 'normal human' commoner).

Also, while D&D is shit, Harry Potter is shit^3.

Where's the vaunted capabilities of the D&D wizards?

>>50707290
Globe of Invulnerability makes them completely immune to the entire arsenal of HP wizards.

>>50707127
>lvl 10 wizard 24 hp

what about 4e wizards? they get like 12 hp on level 1 an 4 on each level so at level 10 they have 50+ points,

also HP wizards are weak to weapons? since there's also the bladesinger which is basically a magical swordman and is proficiently with all simple and military melee/ranged weapons.

(also 4e wizards reach lvl 30 so there is all that shit involved in paragon paths and epic destinies)

>>50707633

>>Still gets shit on by the "lol I make the rules now bitch still yo DM ass down" Wizards of 3E

>>50707461
>>50707633
>>50707645
Everyone seems to be hyping up the Harry Potter-verse wizards so much but seem to be neglecting the shit that a 3e wizard gets up to.

They are literally incomparable.

>>50692400
>harry potter
limitless casts
Save or die spell that only 1 person has ever saved implying fuckhueg DC
>dnd
Power gaming optimisers

No contest. DnD takes it everytime. Only 1 person in harry potter spammed !abra cadabra and he was a lich not a wizard.

>>50707633
also I think all the epic destinies have some sort of "press X to not die" once a day, the ones I remember are "you killed me? now I fight as my sword for the rest of the encounter and throw spells and shit and if my body is still nearby I revive with 1 hp after the end of the encounter" and "you didn't killed me you killed a exact replica of me, I've been standing here 5 meters next to you with all my hp the whole time"

>>50707668
In what way? You gotta explain your senseless shit.

D&D wizards win. Maybe I don't remember it right but HP wizards can't do jack shit without their magic sticks, so just break it or disarm them. Then have fun doing whatever immoral wizard thing you want to do to them.

>>50707719
How are they supposed to win though?

>>50692400
3.X wizards by far, they have the most bullshit kit. Anything anyone else can do they can do better.

>>50695353
Automatic quicken spell wants a word with you.
Yes it is a real feat, yes it is total bullshit once you pull it off.
Also hp wizards can not do scry and fry as far as we have ever seen, so in a sudden death battle hp wizards might win, in a full war they have no chance.

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>>50707716

How? Let's see;
>Infinite spells vs limited spells
>Spells primarily around fighting and dungeon crawling vs charms useful in daily life
>More general spells (ie; Conjure Monster, Prestidigitation) vs very specific spells (Turn animals in water goblets, repel a specific monster, etc)
>Spells require a wand vs spells requiring random mystic components or nothing
>Magic is chaotic and highly based on emotion vs magic is nearly scientific and spells are always the same
>Magic Users exclusively have spells vs magic users have all kinds of other weird abilities like teleporting anywhere they want, turning into an animal, being able to talk to animals, etc.
>Spell levels vs spells of very fluid and gradual degrees of 'difficulty' with some people having a natural talent for certain areas or types of magic over others
>Powerful area or group style spells (Fireball, Sleep, etc.) vs Powerful but mostly individual spells (Disarming Spell, Killing Curse, etc.)

They are about as different as two things calling themselves magic can be. They are literally incomparable and magic users of either gauge are both weaker and stronger then the other by the very most basic rules of their respective settings.

This thread is dumb, and ur dumb.

>D&D wizards can enhance their initiative and reflexes, as well as anything else, with spells and magic objects, to ridiculous degrees. Harry Potter wizards have never shown any ability to do such things.
>D&D wizards can stop time.
Come on, Rowlingfags, explain me how will your wizards deal with a being that can freeze them AND THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE before they can let out a syllabe of their pseudo-latin gibberish

>>50692400
I know it's a bit late, but I'm pretty sure any fag with autistic levels of minmaxing will prove to be stronger than HP wizards
The question just falls down to who is elligible as a wizard for this fight, because most of the wizards in HP don't actually spend their lives fighting, with wizards that do being infinitely superior at fighting

>>50708749

Its also a matter of narrative in a kids story vs Heroes of High Fantasy

A guy in Harry Potter gets knifed in the gut or set on fire he likely dies without immediately aid. A high level wizard in D&D shrugs off something like that as an annoyance before killing whatever is responsible and wondering why he didnt already have a counter-measure up for something actually hurting him

>>50708787
yep. It all falls down to "the argument is retarded in the first place"

>>50708670

>Harry Potter Wizards can teleport anywhere in the world instantly and cast an instant death spell that cannot be blocked by any magical means
>Harry Potter has lich-wizards with multiple fucking phylacteries
Come on Gygaxfags, explain to me how your Wizards deal with a unkillable lich with 7 proxies teleporting into their chamber before they've been able to memorize their spells and kill them with a spell that penetrates all their defenses?

>>50709026

Death Ward? The spell that expressly protects from death effects?

>>50697743
That was made by lots of wizards, not just one.

3.5 Wizards can make entire planes and other stuff at high levels.

Imo:

Average HP wizard > Average DnD Wizard
3.5 high level wizard > High level HP wizard

>>50709038

Ignores all magical protections.

>>50705646

High level Dnd wizards literally have a deus ex machina spell and can kill you with a word.

>>50709026

>Wish.

Also, our Lich is a demigod.

>>50709026
Their lich needs someone else to do all kinds of rituals and shit to come back from the dead.

D&D lich just respawns. Also probably puts silence on himself so you can't adava kedavra, then goes in for the paralyze.

>>50709074
...That exist in the Harry Potter universe. They don't have Death Ward.

>>50709181

Do you see why this argument is fucking stupid?

>>50709190
>>50709181
HP wizards just have to cast it by sacrificing their lives.

See: the titular character's mother.

>>50709190
Welcome to 4chan, where all the arguments are stupid and the (you)s are made up.

>>50709057
desu
very high level 3,5 wizard >>>whole hp universe

>>50709026
said instant death spells require actual killing intent and expertise. it's not too different from a finger of death or a power word kill: you can't do it if you're not good enough.

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Anybody here played the HP tabletop game made in the /tg/ threads?

>>50696964
Something to remember: many bullets move faster than sound. If you aren't looking directly at the gun when it is fired at you, you will not know that it was fired before the bullet hits you.
You're underestimating the speed of a bullet. Yes, if the wizard was prepped and ready, and of a high enough skill level, they could probably handle a bullet. But if I shoot you from behind, the bullet will hit you before you realize that it was fired.

>>50697593
>nigga they can die from a stray cat

Where does this meme come from? Cats can do 1 nonlethal damage an attack (in 3.5) because they have a 1d3-4 on their highest-damaging natural weapon. Even a commoner in 3.5 gets proficiency in one simple weapon, so they could be doing lethal damage to the cat.
It'd be a toss-up at best. Is the meme just that a cat *could* beat a commoner?

>>50709026
Yeah, that lich needed a convoluted overarching plot that involved kidnapping an Auror/teacher, having one of his men impersonating him for a year, hijacking an artifact to exploit a stupid tournament, influence said tournament and replace its prize just to fucking kidnap a 15 yo.

'Teleport anywhere in the world' my ass.

Also, that lich is, you know, one man. Also one man that is considered a 'Dark lord' and 'the greatest threat to the magical world' with a death count of how many, a few dozens? And he's defeated by a bunch of kids. For how much you may shill magical powers that are just an incoherent sequence of asspulls from an incompetent writer, you can't deny that said lich is basically a Scooby-Doo villain and it takes a whole world of moron wizards to even start taking him seriously.

And finally, wishes ,death wards and actually effective protections against spells are a thing in D&D as in any moderately sensible setting with common magic users. In HP, you can fool Dumbledore with a transformation potion that can (as in 'has been in the second book') be made by 12 yo children, or pretend to be an Auror in the US ministry of magic for years while you're actually the most sought-after dark wizards of the century with a transfiguration.

Just because HP wizards are too stupid to use effectively magic to defend against other spells doesn't mean that it has to be the same for wizards from other settings, with ridiculously more powerful spells.

>>50713749
In second edition they get 3 attacks per round, and do lethal damage IIRC.

>>50713837
Gotcha. Still have the 3 attacks in 3.5, but they can't get over a 0 on the damage roll, so it just gets converted to 1 nonlethal

>>50709026
>Not sleeping in your own impenetrable demiplane guarded by swole elementals
>Not having a asston of scrolls and charged wands always ready to blast noseless fuckers into oblivion
How plebian

Does the HP verse really have infinite spells?
How is this different to 3PF, 4e and 5e that now have at-will spells?

>>50714281
>Does the HP verse really have infinite spells?
Just like you have infinite words.
Sooner or later you are going to go hoarse, or exhausted from talking, and they'll get tired from keeping their thoughts straight, especially if they keep the difficulty rating high by forgoing verbal and somatic components.

>>50714321
Just exhaust them through stress and fear then.

>>50715325
Much more difficult than just hitting them with a Breach and Fireball.

>>50695430
>HP is set in Britain
Did they have to explain handguns to the muggles as well?

What level?
A level 30 3.5 Wizard rewrites reality as a nonaction outside of initiative order and destroys your entire plane.

>>50707719
Grindelwald and the possessed Quirrel could both perform wandless magic, as could any goblin or house elf.

Ultimately, while HP wizards appear to be governed by rules, no such consistent rules actually exist-- even in the author's mind-- and what they are really governed by is fiat. As such, there's very little point to comparisons.

Crunch Vs Fluff never works.

How would a HP wizard look like in DnD world or how would a DnD wizard look like in the irl HP world?

People have been likening what a HP wizard can do to a modified warlock, the two can compared.

>>50715339
I'm personally fond of Unname. It's an overleveled spell that needs you to learn an otherwise useless skill but there is something really pleasant in completely erasing your opponent from the Universe.

>>50719557
Does it do what it says on the tin?

>>50719616
Yep. You research a true name of your target and then erase them from the face of the world.

>>50692444
>They don't have any of the really bonkers spells however.
All their spells are nonsense. From instantly killing someone, instead of doing XdY damage, to mind control without saves.

>>50696554
Harry canonically used Protego, a shield charm, to block Snape's mind invasion attempts during their training in the fifth book, which let him bounce the spell back and get glimpses of Snape's mind instead. So yeah, warding and spell turning does exist. The Unforgivable curses ignore it though, except in specific situations (I.e. Lily Potter).

Although from the sounds of it, Harry also has a low Will save.

>>50720157
>to mind control without saves.
Imperius can be fought off. Harry could do it.

>>50709181
Death Ward only protects against 3.X death effects

>>50720281
Harry barely did it, and had special defenses against the dark arts anyways.

>>50692400
Well, that depends--which setting is the protagonist from?

>>50700767
>people that play so much pretend would be so delusional?
>>50701203

yeah pretty much

>>50721874
>Harry barely did it
He *still* did it. So it is possible.
>and had special defenses against the dark arts anyways
Nah, he has deus-ex-machina tier plot armor, and the fact that a regular teenager wizard could resist it proves that it can indeed be resisted.

>>50720157
>From instantly killing someone, instead of doing XdY damage
D&D has that too. Not to mention that most Harry Potter characters would range between 4 and 20 hit points, so a mid-to-high level 'XdY damage' spell would fry them instantly anyway. A lot of them in a row, actually.

>>50721837
3.X has more powerful spells than Harry Potter (creating planes, resurrecting the dead, stopping time, shit like that). A 3.X protective spell that protects against 3.X spells is reasonably going to be as much, if not more, effective against spells of lesser power such as HP spells.

>>50723368
>3.X has more powerful spells than Harry Potter (creating planes, resurrecting the dead, stopping time, shit like that). A 3.X protective spell that protects against 3.X spells is reasonably going to be as much, if not more, effective against spells of lesser power such as HP spells.
This. Infinite spells mean nothing if the spells are piss weak and D&D wizards can just shield themselves against them.

>>50696932
Keep in mind the bullet flies faster than the speed of sound.

The first indication of a bullet being shot is the bullet either hitting you or whizzing past you, followed by the bang of the gun.

Your reaction speed could be instant and you would still respond to late.

Wouldn't sorcerers be a closer equivalent?

Oh dear. I think the most dangerous spell in this entire fight might not be the killing curse, but rather Oblivate.

Okay, so follow my logic on this.

Obliviate is a kind of memory charm that works on muggles but doesn't work on wizards in Harry Potter. However, Fantastic Beasts confirms that Potterverse wizards are NOT humans that have learned to use magic. HP Wizards are a magical subrace of humans. They are, themselves, magical in nature, learning magic just teaches them how to use that innate skill better. They are more like sorcerers than wizards by the DnD definition.

This means that, by HP rules, a DnD wizard is technically a muggle. Just a muggle that can cast magic, as contradictory as that sounds.

The Obliviate spell is used to erase memory of magic from the minds of muggles after they have witnessed it in order to preserve the masquerade. It can be cast on groups of people at a time, and its effects are largely irreversible. It doesn't shoot a ray or ball, it just affects an area in front of the wizard (which is why you can hit multiple people at once) and it can have FAR reaching consequences. When Hermione cast the spell on her parents, since she was of magical nature herself her parents literally forget they had a daughter at all, and more importantly all evidence of her in the house (including presence in photos) was erased as well.

If a DnD wizard is considered a valid target for this spell, all it takes is for a HP wizard to get close enough to cast Obliviate. The result would be the DnD wizard, no matter their level, losing all knowledge of magic or that it even exists, and all of their spellbooks and other magical literature erasing itself. They would be turned into a commoner with some extra hit dice.

They would even lose any prepared spells they have uncast, because those are explicitly 'memorized' spells for the day.

And school children in HP can cast this spell.

>>50724971
Are wizards in Harry Potter the most evil group of people ever?

Because that is plain disturbing.

>>50725029

Yeah, Harry Potter wizards act all comfy and cutesy but the shit they do is pretty goddamn horrifying sometimes.

Consider that a first year student at Hogwarts can, with two spells, have you drown in slugs that you are vomiting up. Slug vomitting curse + full body paralysis = death by choking to death on slugs.

But that's not unforgiveable, you see, because you can counter it or otherwise protect yourself from it. A spell is only 'unforgiveable' if a HP wizard can't defend themselves against it.

That alone should tell you a l about the kind of people you are dealing with.

>>50724971
>all it takes is for a HP wizard to get close enough to cast Obliviate

And teleporting is like getting your drivers license for them. So any DnD wizard that doesn't stay in an anti-teleport field all the time is at risk of getting ganked in a single round against an enemy they didn't get to roll initiative against in the first place.

Only the most powerful and paranoid of DnD wizards would be safe.

>>50694401
>And I said an actual citation of where Rowling said it. Every time it comes up, you fucks never can show me where she said it. She never said it, you pulled it out of your ass.

This actually highlights the (second) biggest problem with Rowling. Rowling is far too reliant on Word-of-God lore. Since the release of the last book, she's just been saying stuff is canon, despite no evidence in the books. Pottermore at best is a weak expansion to the lore, and at worst, fanwank written by the author herself. Dumbledore being gay? That isn't in the books either. At all, the books don't even hint at it in the slightest. They mention Grindlewald was a dear friend, but they never go beyond that. The films hint at it better than the books ever did, and even then it's a bit of a stretch.

So to play devil's advocate to that person who pulled the info out of their ass, so did Rowling.

>>50725172
Serious question, though.

What would it being out and in your face in the books have added? Nothing, really.

So why bother to say it? "Oh, by the way, Harry, I realllly love me some nuts." It in no way effects the story, so it really has no need to be mentioned IN THE STORY.

Pulling stuff out of her ass is Rowling's equivalent of writing, so...

>>50695430
>Wizards so removed from the muggle world, considering themselves so superior, when a muggle with a knife or a gun could easily kill them unawares.

The arrogance of the wizarding world is the biggest problem. Take Gringots for example. Got all these magical charms and shit so it's meant to be unbreakable, but how well does that actually protect against nonmagical means? I mean you might have a load of enchantments on a door to stop destructive spells, lockpicking spells, but when I cast semtex, how confident you gonna be?

>>50724971
>Obliviate doesn't work on wizards
Okay, explain why Gilderoy Lockheart, a wizard whose only real skill is memory charms, having fucked over countless skilled wizards to convince the world he was a great wizard, tries to use Obliviate on Harry and Ron in the Chamber of Secrets

>But it didn't work on them!
Yeah, cause he was using Ron's broken wand, which had a habit of backfiring on the user

obliviate does work on wizards

>>50725215
This is also true, yes, but my point was that Rowling's (I said second, could be first) biggest problem is the fact that she just spouts shit outside of the books as if it's important, but everything she does claim is accepted as canon. Word of God lore is Cancer

>>50725509
Rowling can't into writing.
Either way you take it, it's still bullshit.

>>50725509

You're right.

That's because Obliviate kind of got rewritten as time went on. Originally it was just a memory alteration spell that worked on anyone and COULD be used to erase memory of magic, and eventually it just sort of became synonymous with 'Harry Potter: MIB Neuralizer' and its default effect was erasing memory of magic.

Even so, this makes the spell more dangerous rather than less. Regardless of which version of the spell you are using, used against a DnD wizard the effects are pretty goddamn horrifying.

>>50695408
Just use that spell that spits out those heavy cloth banners to block the killing curse.

What if a HP wizard got gated into a DnD world and joined a party
>K-kill him?
>>Uh yeah, we kill people and take their stuff and then use that to kill more people
what if a DnD wizards joined hogwarts as one of the teachers
>What do you mean I can't teach them Magic Missile? You know how you protect yourself from evil wizards? You kill them!

>>50725865

That's because DnD's default answer to any problem is murder, whereas HP is an almost functional society. And DnD wizard that goes a week without getting into a fight to the death would commit suicide out of boredom.

>>50724971
>>50725735
Mind Blank could probably protect against it.

>>50726293

Probably true. But any Wizard who either isn't high enough level to know it or doesn't have it already up is in danger of being Obliviated.

...I wonder if Mind Blank would prevent the Obliviate spell from erasing all of their spellbooks, though? Even if the DnD wizard immediately kills the HP wizard after, losing all of their spellbooks and arcane research is a tremendous fucking blow to even an epic level caster.

>>50726406
Check Mindrape spell from D&D for some nightmares. It's a slower spell but it makes Imperius curse look not so evil.

>>50726406
Most of that would be tucked away safely in another plane, and its possible to have multiple spellbooks. A hobo wizard that carries everything he owns might have be screwed, but it'd only be an inconvenience for the ones with their own towers and whatnot. None of that stuff should ever enter the HP wizard's line of sight unless the D&D wizard is intentionally showing himself out of pride or something.

Ideally, they would be launching the magical equivalent of drone strikes from the opposite hemisphere or even another planet. Nightmare would be a good spell for this. Unlimited range, 1d10 damage is enough to stand a high chance of killing a "normal" humanoid, it could be beefed up with metamagic to guarantee lethal damage, and the speed of a HP wizard's defensive spells is bypassed entirely by hitting them in their sleep. The only way around it is a high will save or passive defenses, and as far as I remember HP defenses are mostly active.

>>50725413
>Take Gringots for example
The place that got broken in by magical means several times?
The place largely runs on the pretense of competence, just like the rest of the HP universe.

>>50725865
>what if a DnD wizards joined hogwarts as one of the teachers
You have an evil wizard on the loose who kills people with his favorite spell "finger of death"?
Be right back.

>>50725865
>what if a DnD wizards joined hogwarts as one of the teachers

You know... I'm not actually sure how well a DnD wizard would do in Harry Potter.

On the one hand, they can be very powerful. But on the other, all they have is a hammer. Potter magic is less about sheer POWAH and more about having the right absurdly specific tool for the job. The Patronus spell isn't very powerful, but in the situation it was designed for its invaluable.

Anything that a DnD wizard can't save or die into oblivion is just going to leave him completely baffled. And having to prepare their spells well in advance of the problem leaves them much less flexible than a Potterverse wizard.

Especially since DnD monsters can largely be dealt with by any number of means (a save or die of some kind will probably work, or you can just drop rocks on it until it dies) but potter magic creatures like Dementors are silver-bullet tests. You either have the silver bullet and they are easily dealt with, or you do not and you are screwed. No amount of damage will help you against a Dementor, and Forcecage is a temporary solution.

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>>50727904
Well there is always classical multipurpose spells like "You are a newt now" or "I'm a 30 meters long firebreathing lizard with magical powers". Depending on how paranoid and powerful our wizard teacher he can go for transformations into gaseous form in case of emergency or even never actually being at school physically - instead using projections.

Frankly the only things that can give some trouble to a DnD wizard are dementors. Because it's hard to say if they are some kind of ghost or outsider. But prismatic spells should work alright.

If you have a big enough hammer everyone is a nail.

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>>50724971
>When Hermione cast the spell on her parents, since she was of magical nature herself her parents literally forget they had a daughter at all
Fuck, I completely forgot about that.

I haven't read the book in ages, did, did she ever fix this? Or did she seriously permanently cut ties with her parents for the rest of her life?

>>50728188
>did she ever fix this?

Anon... the memories are gone. There isn't anything to fix.

Gilderoy Lockheart accidentally obliviated the hell out of himself when Ron's wand backfired, and the result was that he was consigned to a wizard mental care hospital for the rest of his life because he obliviated himself into retardation. He was a celebrity with access to the best magical care the wizarding world could provide, and he was never cured.

Do the math.

>>50727904
>he Patronus spell isn't very powerful, but in the situation it was designed for its invaluable.
Dispel magic would probably have done the trick as well.

>>50728322

Why? Dementors are not a spell. You can't dispel them anymore than you can dispel a dragon.

>>50728341
Dragons are magical but they don't consist of magic.

>>50727904
>>50728069
Dementors can't be destroyed, but can they be teleported? Plane Shifting them anywhere would be almost as good as killing them since they can't return under their own power. Hell, they would probably enjoy some of the lower planes so much that they could be convinced to happily fly through a gate by the hundreds.

>>50728321
According to this she did fix them, and she was using a different type of spell that made them think they were someone else instead of just nuking their memories. Her using Obliviate was a movie change.

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/07/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript/

>>50728605
>Another out-of-book 'Word of god' asspull to keep her readers satisfied
Never change, Rowling.

>>50728377
Ehh, there is a problem with this line against D&D wizard. Someone who exists can be destroyed. Even Lady of Pain in theory can die.

They may be immune to damage but there is other ways. In worst case you can imprison them on a demiplane without exit or suck a "soul" out of them and place it in a body that can be killed.

>>50728964
That's why I suggested plane shifting them. And they don't have souls.

Wish/Miracle could probably do something about them too.