How could an medieval army without access to firearms and magic

>>50632045
By being more than the ogres, like 10 men to 1 ogre?

>>50632045
with a fortification or mounted archers

Tactics. Numbers.

The sheer logistics of keeping an ogre army fed and disciplined enough to maintain a siege probably means the humans could just try and wait them out.

Numbers and fortifications. Also ranged weapons, which aside from leadbelchers ogres are seriously lacking in. Killing or spooking an elephant isn't that hard.

Define medieval btw.

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Warfare in general was usually mostly not pitched battles. Those would only really happen if neither side had a clear advantage, and no one could think of anything else.

Manoeuvre warfare wears down your opponent without risking a random, chaotic and at the bets of times barely controllable battle. And if the armies aren't near equally matched one side will most likely just fuck off to the nearest fortification, giving you a siege instead.

Ogres would be no different, only larger targets and probably relatively low in numbers. So harassing them with horse archers, or just archers with horses since they probably won't be chased off by ogre cavalry in turn, should work quite well. Remember to poison the arrows.

Then it's just the usual, get out of the way, scorched earth so they starve, and when you finally have to take the fight have some sturdy walls on your side.

>>50632045
With cavalry, polearms and mobility

>>50632045

A heavy helping of DEUS VULT and mounted heavy cavalry.

>>50632045
Arrows stabbed into the ground, then a dead cows guts.

They'll catch something.

And they'll rot to death, even assuming they survive.

>>50632708
>Arrows stabbed into the ground, then a dead cows guts.

Better than nothing, but if you have some time...

Grab the cows liver. If available, find a large viper or pit viper, have it bite the liver, squeeze the venom glands a bit. Venomous elapids probably won't work as well, but should be better than no snake.

Now feel free to chop up the liver a bit and to dust one some soil, don't grab soil from the very top, dig a bit. The things we're after don't like oxygen.

Then wrap everything up in the cow's bladder. The less air in there the better. Tie it up, air tight. Leave for a few days, ideally not too cold.

Thus we've seeded the liver with both soil bacteria and bacteria from the snake's mouth (stuff that will probably enjoy living in a puncture wound filled with tissue-destroying toxins, eating dead tissue and shitting ore such toxins), and given them a chance to grow on the liver. (Why the liver specifically? I don't know, but it's what they did, so perhaps it works the best, maybe it just works.) Should leave you with much more of them than if you just did the seeding, especially since the cow guts may until quite recently have been ruled by relatively harmless chlorophyll-eaters and the cow's immune system.

The venom may have decomposed along with the cow liver here, but should any remain, well, it'd be a shame to complain.

If the arrows are prepared a few days in advance, try to smear on some fresh blood just before the battle to wake everyone up.

>>50632045
get them into a confined area: metric fucktonne of catapults with hugeass rocks ready to fire.

>>50632045
Logistics.

>>50632486
Exactly. Even the largest fantasy battles are piddly compared to the Crusades.

Also OP, odds are we'd tame the ogres and then use them as a vassal race. Humanity is great at seeing strength and integrating it into society. Not to mention we'd totally create some human/ogre hybrid because no matter what, someone, somewhere, wants to put his dick in it.

>>50632878
>medieval army

>>50632045
Cavalry Archers, Polearms, Armor.

>>50632045
Search "Pikemen"
Search "Phalanx"

If we're taking Warhammer ogres, they're pretty much out for themselves and will break pretty easily once sustaining enough casualties. They're also massively outnumbered by just about everyone, so even the order races have to drown them in bodies. Large ogre armies are extremely rare and can only be taken down with lots of artillery

>>50634159
>so even the order races
Don't you mean Chaos Warriors? The most elite, low-number army in the setting?

>>50632045
Retreating campaign while burning your fields and all that jazz. Ogres would have to be a relatively small force given their large size, and by cutting off their food supply, their monstrous metabolisms become their own downfall.

Or just lance the fat fucks with ballistae

>>50632045
Just starve them through scorched earth tactics.

>>50632045
Poison every grain store in their path. Wear them out with constant harassment from cavalry and mounted archers. Ambush the groups they will inevitably have to send out for forage. Leverage every single dirty, trick terrain quirk and so on to bleed out their supplies and wear down their morale.

In a pitched battle to finally destroy them, bring them to battle break in appropriate terrain that'll break up their momentum and ability to keep formation, throw in additional fieldworks for good measure, but make sure to use local knowledge for useful information, like where to conceal cavalry so they can be unleashed upon a flank without having to run into an unexpected rabbit warren or sudden elevation change.

Most of the killing will be done when their force breaks and retreats anyway. Rest of it is all basic art of war shit because battles were often won before the forces even draw up.

>>50632045
crossbows?
halberds?

Dig a massive moat and then shoot at them.

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wew lad, i cant wait so we have a real warhammer board, that is looong overdue already.

>Mfw people dont know that the basic ogre basically run as fast as a horse galop
>Mfw people dont know ogre have acces to cannon shooting 300kg bullets
>Mfw people think ogre will die from "poisoning" when they eat poison like hindu use spice
>Mfw a Stonehorne outrun any horse easily and as a skin as hard as fucking ROCK
>Mfw thuindertusk would literraly go LOTR 3 Oliphan on the Minas Thirit battle on infantry and cavalry alike
>Mfw mournfang outrun cavalry
>Mfw Sabertusk outrun cavalry
>Mfw NO ONE IN THIS THREAD IS ACKNOWLEDGING THAT A NORMAL HUMAN WOULD SHIT ITSELF AND RUN
>Mfw They don't know Ogres can MANIPULATE FUCKING COMET to fall on your fucking castle
>Mfw some faggot just answer with "Tactics. Numbers." when even elf with fucking magic and dragon and shit and using "Tactics. Numbers." still loose
>Mfw people a spewing shit lie Search "Pikemen", Search "Phalanx" and ogre kingdom are known to charge belly first into those shit and survive easily
>Mfw that what you get for having MTG and historical faggot in the mix
>Mfw people unironically answer with shit like "arrows and cavalry" while you would need 50+ arrow to take one down becausemost of them would inevitably land in the 3foot of fat
>Mfw people haven't read any ogre codex

>>50632045
Ogres are big and fat, like whales.

Get Nippon mercs with harpoons.

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>>50637172
>A NORMAL HUMAN WOULD SHIT ITSELF AND RUN
why? Normal humans have had to face down tanks without running.

Tanks are scarier than ogres. Unless you're talking about the OGRE tank, in which case it's about as scary as several tanks.

Shittons of spears and bows.

Because all the strength and power in the world means nothing if you're being turned into a pincushion from outside your reach.

>>50637172

Again, nothing plenty of a healthy helping of DEUS VULT plenty of archers, mounted cavalry, pikemen, hordes of peasent levies, siege equipment, starvation tactics, and advantageous terrain can't handle.

>>50637248
He got a point tho, does those normal humans faced tank with medieval technology ? or rocket launcher ? pretty sure a tank would make any medieval army flee

>>50632045
Have a mideval version of the iron cage from 40k, i.e. Have a super fortress that's full of traps and shit that leads to an open courtyard that's just arrow hell with every ablebodyed man shooting them. Cripple the army early on and them mop up the rest.

>>50637313
oh okay so you're trolling. that explains alot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SL_QV2gPwpE

>>50637172

Okay, now tell me why any of that shit is relevant? You're mixing stuff from like three different settings and taking the best of all of them, of course they're going to seem OP as shit.

>>50637313
NONE of those can even hurt a Stonehorne.
Trebuchet are taken out with much more accurate and rapidly reloaded Frost Giant cannons.
Pikemen dont do this vs ogres. Ogre have much more siege equipment than you do, they became so numerous by besieging the FUCKING FROST GIANT and exteminating them.
An ogre can survive starvation much longer than the common 65kg mediaval man due to enormous amount of fat.

Again all of this was used against ogre but with fucking magic and dragon as backup and that failed.

>>50637322
Medieval armies had to deal with primitive napalm. I'm sure they could handle giant fat men without completely shitting themselves.

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>>50637395
3 different settings ? all from the latest Ogre arnybook, the very ogres OP use as pic.

>>50637468

That's a big, stupid assumption to make based on a picture.

Especially when OP strongly implies that magic and gunpowder, two things you repeatedly bring up, aren't part of the equation.

>>50637172
caltrops
loads of caltrops

have them run into field and torch the field (when dry ofc)

>
>Mfw people dont know ogre have acces to cannon shooting 300kg bullets
if one bullet is 300kg how many do they carry with them? + powder and all that? Remember the humans dont have guns therefore you cannot loot theirs


>while you would need 50+ arrow to take one down because most of them would inevitably land in the 3foot of fat
how many ogres are we talkin about, because 50 arrows is not all that much

Bear in mind just how massive a warhorse is. A knight atop a destrier will be just as tall as an ogre, if not taller, and the knight's lance will far exceed the ogre's reach.

>>50637172

>infantryman being charged by a thundering mass of men clad in impervious steel sitting ten feet high atop their hulking steeds with vicious lances set to impale the infantry before they can even stab their spears
>mfw NO ONE IN THIS THREAD is acknowledging that a normal human WOULD SHIT ITSELF AND RUN in this situation

Except, frequently, they didn't.

>>50632045
>How could an medieval army without access to firearms and magic hope to defeat an ogre army?

bribe one half to kill the other half

Humans would lose in a straight infantry fight, but we would attempt it first and never do it again, after that it would evolve into covering the ground it caltrops and arrowing the fuck out of them as they try and make it though. We would attrition them to oblivion like what the Russians did to napoleon (burning everything as they retreated and leaving nothing to the French)

>archers
Ogre skin is very tough, and thick and below that there is a ton of fat and muscle, I don't think most arrows would do much real damage.
>cavalry/skirmishes
Ogres are large and being so they are relatively fast, almost as fast as a horse. However being bipedal they are better suited for long distance/endurance running.
>scorched earth
Ogres aren't only eating bread and livestock, they eat every man woman and child that can't get away from them, and a healthy ogre will have enough fat stores to last him quite a while.
>poison
Ogres are described as eating rocks, old carcasses, bones, wood you name it, they can pretty much digest anything and poison would have to be incredibly potent to beat their digestion and overcome their sheer size
>fortifications
Humans with a battering ram can destroy a gate after a dozen or so hits, how long do you really think any entrance would last against eight ogres with a battering ram

>>50637918
The soles of their boots are likely 6 inches thick with probably another 4 inches of dermis. Footling caltrops wew lad

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>>50638388
>so they are relatively fast, almost as fast as a horse.
Lolwut?
Also, still not a problem for knight lance.
Also, infantry.

>>50637172
I have the 7th edition codex which is actually where op pic is from and all this is pretty much accurate. Even taking out their cannons they still would stomp traditional European forces

>>50638418
They are large, they are described in the codex that OP came from as being as fast as horses, and even a lance is not likely to bring one down in done go

>>50638388
Lol you faggot. Historical european armies will OBVIOUSLY rolfstomp anything ogres can throw with like, 2 peasants and some rocks lying around.

1 peasant woth a rock and a horse can probably kill 20000000 ogres, stonehorne and deflect firestorm, blizzard and comets.

lol those warhammer faggots.

>>50638544
did someone poop on your infantile understanding of medieval warfare or something, because you sure sound mighty bum rumpled

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Surely ogre that casually attack DEMONIC fortress with walls 250meters high that spit lightning are NO MATCH for our glorious medieval castle and arrows

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>>50638418
Wow that is an impressive "Wall" you got there, just as the one we go thought daily, except this one isn't 2000 Elves deep.

Please historians and MTG player here :
Are the 2 last work on ogre available for completely free >>>

mega:///#F!6EZEHQqJ!gdDBPH48LYPGDccS4YaeWA!PIw1QKIB this one you got under battletome then destruction

and this one : mega:///#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ!kF4GASgC You go under armybooks.

Read them and comeback.

>>50638739
Why in god's name are you so obsessed with "MTG players" I fail to see any connection between the conversation at hand and that. Other then the tenuous connection of "Outnumber them" but that's kinda been a mainstay in how to fight troops of higher quality than yours since day one so...

>>50632045
Quantity has a quality all of its own.

Thread was good up until this dude >>50637172 just had to start sperging out.

>>50638673
Disregard smegmar

>>50638961
There's another WHFB ogre player here too

>>50637172
>
>Mfw people think ogre will die from "poisoning" when they eat poison like hindu use spice

Do they have poison immunity in WHFB?
If no, they die to it. Rules, not headcanon, please

>Mfw people unironically answer with shit like "arrows and cavalry" while you would need 50+ arrow to take one down becausemost of them would inevitably land in the 3foot of fat
Are they immune to arrows within the confines of the WHFB ruleset. If not, it *is* a viable answer, right?

>Ogres are large and being so they are relatively fast, almost as fast as a horse. However being bipedal they are better suited for long distance/endurance running.
Does not matter. light cavalry with bows can shoot on the move, therefore shoot and run away while ogre just runs and bleeds
>>50638404
>The soles of their boots are likely 6 inches thick with probably another 4 inches of dermis. Footling caltrops wew lad

You might want to check your dimensions
start with human soles and boots and think about ogres not being giants.
Note: caltrops were used to stop war-elephants

But you came here just to live out your supa-ogre-powerfantasies, right.

(If not, please explain why bretonnia is not overrun by ogre hordes 250 times in the WHFB lore)

>>50632878

Or you just smear it in shit and call it a day.

>>50638673
>Surely ogre
But I thought that's not ogres, but Ogors.

>>50639188

Old worlds dead. Move on.

>>50639477
Yeah move on to your wow general on /vg/.

>>50639370
>Ogres are large and being so they are relatively fast, almost as fast as a horse. However being bipedal they are better suited for long distance/endurance running.
>Does not matter. light cavalry with bows can shoot on the move, therefore shoot and run away while ogre just runs and bleeds>

What is a leadblecher

The ogres could also just go for the villager instead of taking the animu weeboo bait composed of 10 light cavalry, or you know, any pack of the thousand vulture like in the cannon artwork, or you know, the sabertusk/mournfang/Thundertusk/stonehorne you don't quote, all much faster than any horse.

>The soles of their boots are likely 6 inches thick with probably another 4 inches of dermis. Footling caltrops wew lad

>You might want to check your dimensions
start with human soles and boots and think about ogres not being giants.
>Note: caltrops were used to stop war-elephants

>But you came here just to live out your supa-ogre-powerfantasies, right.

Lol. the ogres know caltrop very well and use them against most armies, they even train gnoblar trapper to set them.

>(If not, please explain why bretonnia is not overrun by ogre hordes 250 times in the WHFB lore)
Ogres dont go that much in the south, only as mercenaries.. and when they did went there they basically fucked everything then eat the human that paid them then went back to their tribes with the money and the meat

Also are you that much of a faggot to compare MEDIEVAL EARTH with BRETONNIA that use blessings magic weapons, magic blizzards, fucking pegasus, and ghost, unkillable knights ?

Bretonnia is Medieval Earth +100 you are trolling at this point mentioning bretonnia as a proof that historical could win.

Try to not nit pick arguments and answer everything next time

>>50639506

Me leaving won't bring the old world back.

What's funny is age of sigmar is more popular than old fantasy ever was.

>>50639459
which are exactly the same except for the name

>>50639551
>What's funny is age of sigmar is more popular than old fantasy ever was.
>source: my ass
>>50639565
>which are exactly the same except for the name
Nope, since ogres were just one of mortal races, not super-magic shit living in winds of magic

>>50639541
> Try to not nit pick arguments and answer everything next time
You neither answered my earlier question regarding limited supply of gunpowder for a prolonged campaign nor my question why you think ogres are immune to caltrops. You also dismissed my arguments regarding poison and arrows able to wound ogres on the tabletop.

Last but not least, i was not talkin about 10 mounted archers, more like 1000.
Read up on Gengis Khan and the mongol horde, how it is done.


And btw, why should ogres be allowed firearms and magic while the opposing army does not?

>>50639582

It makes up for 35% of GW's business compared to the fantasy at the time of it's was what? 5%?

Move on. Oldhammer is gone.

>>50639723
>It makes up for 35% of GW's business compared to the fantasy at the time of it's was what? 5%?
Post source
>Move on. Oldhammer is gone.
Yes, that's why TWW and BFG royalty saved the lst GW annual report, while AoS was outsold by Calth

>>50639737

Short and sweet. Don't need a source. Old worlds dead.

Continue to be pissed at AoS nothing will change you mind. Just know the old world you loved will never amount to anything outside of a videogame along with fan and shitty third party support.

>>50639769
>Don't need a source.
So you haven't the source of
>It makes up for 35% of GW's business

>with fan and shitty third party support.
>implying third party miniauters aren't superior better than Space Marines copies

>>50639785
That EXACT attitude is the reason YOU killed WHFB anon. the fact that YOU weren't buying GW's minis lead them to see WHFB as an unsuccessful product branch (Which it was) and caused them to overhaul it into something else. And if that failed, don't think they'd bring WHFB back. They would have just killed it off entirely since they'd already tried to save it once.

>>50639737
Yeah, people parrot that Calth sold better than AoS, but never seem to provide a source, other than "Somewhere in the 47 page financial report"
Meanwhile, the line saying that AoS sold better than WHFB is visible in plain english in the last scentence of the 4th paragraph from the bottom of page 7 on the 2015-16 financial report

>>50639838
>That EXACT attitude is the reason YOU killed WHFB anon.
>I-i-it's all players fault
Lol it's not players made 8th edition with bad rules and ugly cartoonish models.
>since they'd already tried to save it once.
When they tried to save it?
>>50639857
>Meanwhile, the line saying that AoS sold better than WHFB is visible in plain english in the last scentence of the 4th paragraph from the bottom of page 7 on the 2015-16 financial report
No numbers it you mean Kirby's preamble, he wrote something the same years ago about the reason of closing Specialist Game, now when he wasn't CEO anymore someone starts spreading rumors that it was logistic fuck up, not unpopularity

>>50639891
Translation : I have no source.

>>50639891
Try to worm out of it as much as you want, but when it boils down to it, WHFB was a product, and for whatever reason, it's playerbase did not buy it, and that led to it getting replaced with AoS, which people do buy
Also that second sentence seems.. off. Did you have a stroke anon?

>>50639911
>which people do buy
Source?

>>50639906
So as you Kevin.

>>50639933
Say the source.

>>50639943
>Say the source.
Only after you.

>>50639723
>Oldhammer is gone.
Oldhammer never left, and if anything it's in a bit of a renaissance right now. Ten-fifteen years ago it was completely underground.

>>50639953
I am a new anon. I didn't post any claim. Where does it say that Calth outsold AoS.

>>50639915
Learn to read nigger. To quote myself here >>50639857
"the line saying that AoS sold better than WHFB is visible in plain english in the last scentence of the 4th paragraph from the bottom of page 7 on the 2015-16 financial report"

>>50639971
>Where does it say that Calth outsold AoS.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-betrayal-at-calth-faq.html
>>50639992
>"the line saying that AoS sold better than WHFB is visible in plain english in the last scentence of the 4th paragraph from the bottom of page 7 on the 2015-16 financial report"
Numbers shill.

>>50640027
>http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2016/03/40k-betrayal-at-calth-faq.html


I see nothing about sales or outselling AoS. You lied?

>>50640027
Wow. You sure proved me wrong, calling me a shill and posting something from a third party site when I posted something directly from their financal statement. I am truly awash

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>>50640041
>I see nothing about sales or outselling AoS.

>>50640049
>when I posted something directly from their financal statement.
And nothing about your first statement
>>It makes up for 35% of GW's business
And as I said you've posted only Kirby's words, not numbers.

>>50640052
To quote you. Numbers shill

>>50640059
I'm not the one stating that it makes up 35%. There's another person here stating that. I don't know where you can find the exact numbers, but hey, it's not like you can face persecution if you lie on a financial report, right?

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>>50640052
So nothing official. If we are going by BoTS, then it's okay to use this.

AoS sales > WHFB sales.

>>50640052
This is LITERALLY you saying "I heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy"

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>>50632045
Walls of these.

>>50640061
Only after you.
>>50640080
>but hey, it's not like you can face persecution if you lie on a financial report, right?
He didn't lie since they didn't provide numbers. And hey we are talking about country without constitution.
>>50640081
>okay to use this.
>I was not told
Yeah much more relieable.

>>50640092
Just as all "AoS is succeful" posts, while numbers saying that their revenue still dropping.

>>50640103
>Yeah much more relieable.

In your twisted fantasy, man.

>>50640103
Actually that WOULD count as a lie, even if they didn't provide numbers. I'm sure the numbers are there somewhere, but A: You have yet to give even a single shred of evidence supporting your claim other than a fucking fan site saying they heard it from someone, and B: it's fuckin' 3 AM

>>50640154
>I'm sure the numbers are there somewhere,
Where? Annual reports provides only common numbers.
>You have yet to give even a single shred of evidence supporting your claim other than a fucking fan site saying they heard it from someone,
Their revenue is still dropping.

>>50640177
Substantiate your claims.
And even then, how do we know it's not 40k that's doing bad? The game is kinda turning to hot garbage right now

>>50640197
>And even then, how do we know it's not 40k that's doing bad?
Yeah, I am suremirrored gay-dwarves selling better than plastic heresy and other cool releases.
>The game is kinda turning to hot garbage right now
Did you roll 3+ to win todaty?

>>50640227
Oh. You're THAT poster again.
I shoulda figured though since the WHFB community is in the single digits most of the time and there can only be so many retards with more skull than brain. It's not even worth arguing with you at this point since you're too dumb to fucking understand when your "Argumets" if you can even call them that, have been debunked. At least you'll have fun playing with your tau against other tau with the exact same armies or space marines against other, different color space marines, right? Maybe you'll even get a WHFB game in and shuffle huge blocks of infantry against one another for 3 hours, but I doubt it
>inb4 "Umad?" or other such drivel

>>50640267
>I shoulda figured though since the WHFB community is in the single digits most of the time and there can only be so many retards with more skull than brain.
Says the man who came in WHFB thread just to troll.
>It's not even worth arguing with you at this point since you're too dumb to fucking understand when your "Argumets" if you can even call them that, have been debunked.
>YOUR ARGUMENTS AREN"T ARGUMENTS! I DONT HAVE ANY NUKMBERS, BUT I RIGHT, I AM RIGHT!

>At least you'll have fun playing with your tau against other tau with the exact same armies or space marines against other, different color space marines, right?
Even this looks more funny than not-SM vs not-CSM where all you need to do is just roll 3+.
> for 3 hours,
So just like in usual AoS 2k points (only playable format) game?

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>>50632291
>or just archers with horses since they probably won't be chased off by ogre cavalry
Ogres do have cavalry

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>>50640381
>Ogres do have cavalry
Humans learned to counter such things since Ptolemy.

>>50633918
>Multiple gargantuan creatures with thick skin that are about as tall as two men end to end and don't care that you're pointing a stick at them
>At all having anything to worry about from a phalanx

>>50640404
>im-fucking-plying a motherfucking mournfang would even goddamn notice a fucking caltrop
These are the creatures that go for hour long challenges for leadership then have the energy to keep fucking going when the 700 lb ogre jumps on them and starts beating their fucking skull in. They are reknowned for being more brutish than ogres and far more stubborn. Their death throes are nearly the exact same as their living movements.

>>50632045

They wouldn't.

>>50640509
>with thick skin
>and don't care that you're pointing a stick at them
They are too dumb to realise that pikes can penetrate elephant skin and pierce their guts. Internal bleeding kills very fast.

>>50640552
>>im-fucking-plying a motherfucking mournfang would even goddamn notice a fucking caltrop
Nah I just showing the way how could work anything with the same principle, large caltrop, moat and pits with spears.
ANd let's not forget about fortified position in mountains and swamps.

>>50640636
>Giants
>Yetis
>Leadbelchers
>Mournfangs, the heaviest damn cavalry in the old world
One of these 4 will counter just about anything the average medieval nation will use. Hell, regular ass panic will take care of most armies on the first charge just because peasants holding spears don't want to be eaten alive by 9 foot tall goliaths.
Granted, yetis are a timed resource but just have them at a siege for a few days and those walls will be too weak to stop the giant knocking them down. Or, of course, the lead belchers throwing huge ass canonballs.

>>50632291
Battles happened when both sides thought that they had a large chance of winning it or if they were out of options.

A medieval army could use their massiva Numbers advantage against ogres with a combination of massed pikemen, guns and arghets to bring down the ogre horde.

>>50640661
>>Giants
>>Yetis
Oh sorry, I've thought you talked about only ogres race.
>Hell, regular ass panic will take care of most armies on the first charge just because peasants holding spears don't want to be eaten alive by 9 foot tall goliaths.
yes, general battle against big ogres army will be very stupid and ends bad, but from the other side mournfang with damaged legs will create much more problem to other ogres nearby

>>50640661
>One of these 4 will counter just about anything the average medieval nation will use.
Except civilians hiding in the forest and swamps while warriors use ambushes and hit-and-run tactics to deplete enemy strengths. Such approach was used in many parts of our world even before medieval times.

>>50640699
My assumption was a full ogre army, not just the ogres themselves or else where would the gnoblar be?
>mournfang with damaged legs
It keeps going through the battle because lolmournfang and then when it stops being able to walk they slaughter and eat it. They lose the advantage of the heavy cavalry but if it got stuck in enough to actually get hurt, it was probably worth it.
>>50640713
>giants crumpling trees like grass
>yetis freezing any attempt to get close
>gnoblar scouts+hunters being more than capable of handling themselves
And those are some brave ass civilians if you think they're going to get jack shit done. Cause arrows will cause very little issues as stated previously in the thread and who the hell is going to charge an ogre column as a disorganized rabble?

>>50640740
Civilians in this scenario don't fight, but survive. Eventually the ogre army runs out of things to pillage and move on.

>>50640789
So you're saying they hide in the forest and just wait? If so that's a fight they're going to lose hard. Even ignoring the fact that the tribes will now see this as proper roaming territory and continuously come back, taking crops and cattle with them should the civilians return, but ogres will eat wood. They will quite literally eat the trees around the people if they really wanted the bastards out.

>>50640740
>giants crumpling trees like grass
>yetis freezing any attempt to get close
Enjoy moving through bogs and heavily forested areas, fatties.
>gnoblar scouts+hunters being more than capable of handling themselves
Human hunters and hunting dogs are more than capable to handle midgets.
>Cause arrows will cause very little issues as stated previously
Arrows cause tons of issues even if target survive the shot. High risk of infection and internal bleeding is what makes them deadly and nasty. AoS doesn't teach you that, I guess. Ogres have many good surgeons, right?
>who the hell is going to charge an ogre column as a disorganized rabble
Nobody is going to do that. Shoot ogres from a distance, burn their wagons with loot and food, force them to defend from several directions at once and fight futile war without decisive battle.

>>50632045
By having equally if not bigger monsters to their disposal.

>>50640740
>It keeps going through the battle because lolmournfang
Wut?
>They lose the advantage of the heavy cavalry
And it's also creates obstacle on the way for all other ogres.
>but if it got stuck in enough to actually get hurt,
it could require a much less time then you could think.
>>giants crumpling trees like grass
And just as mounrfang their feets totally opened.

>>50640811
>So you're saying they hide in the forest and just wait?
Yep, just like people did in our world.
>If so that's a fight they're going to lose hard.
They can't lose a fight when ogres can't engage in and win. Alternative is act dumb, play by enemy rules and be eaten.
>They will quite literally eat the trees around the people if they really wanted the bastards out.
You are fantasizing a bit too hard here.

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>>50640824
>handle midgets
You're ignoring the ogre hunters, some of the most competent people in the tribes, who are also tracking the potential meals.
>High risk of infection and internal bleeding
>internal bleeding
No. Ogres are surrounded by a thick layer of fat and muscle, no regular arrow would touch their organs. Infection is a possibility but the fact that they can straight up eat poisons with some training tells me that they could likely shrug off all but the worst shit.
And i'm not sure what bog you think would stop pic related but I don't believe that humans will pass through easily.
>>50640848
Mournfangs have defended their caves against entire ogre tribes, continuing even after death to fight against the ogres. They will shrug the fuck off all but the most serious wounds which no mobile medieval force could hope to bring to bear against them.
>>50640859
No the alternative is to routinely have their homes devoured in front of their eyes.
>>50640859
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mountaineater_Tribe

>>50640924
>Mournfangs have defended their caves against entire ogre tribes
So what? They still aren't protected from steel.
>continuing even after death to fight against the ogres.
They are living creatures, not undead.

>>50640948
Protection isn't the point here dummy. The fact that their bones and skin are thick as shit don't matter because the simple fact is that a mournfang is too stupid to stop fighting. Stabbing it won't stop it because its too angry and dumb to realize its hurt. Killing it won't stop it because its death throes are so violent its almost as if you're still fighting it and to a bunch of peasants they're gonna think it simply doesn't die. When you chop off something's head in the heat of battle and it keeps gnashing and bouncing trying to bite shit are you thinking
>oh its just electrical impulses
or are you a dumb peasant thinking
>THEY DON'T DIE, SAVE YOURSELF WHILE YOU STILL CAN

>>50640981
>lolno, my power-level is higher anyway, because it's super-magical shit blah-blah
Well I guess you cannot have good discussion with AoS player.

>>50637517
BTFO

>>50640924
>You're ignoring the ogre hunters
You are ignoring that they are fat, tall and loud
>No
Yep. Infection and poison is completely different things. Ogres can eat poison that goes through their unnaturally tough digestive system, some animals adapted to eat poisonous prey too. Infection occurs outside intestines and such mechanism doesn't protect from it.
>And i'm not sure what bog you think would stop pic related
Any swamp would do. Bogs are death traps for big creatures as fossils show us (except mooses but they adapted to that and can walk on snow and thin ice too). Even if ogres press on they will be slowed down considerably.
>No the alternative is to routinely have their homes devoured in front of their eyes.
So what? You and your family will live another day and enemy won't win, you can build another house later. Again history shows us that people would do that and it worked.

>>50640981
>Killing it won't stop it
So the answer is too kill it and wait out for it to die

>>50637517
>my magical creatures attack you but you can't use your magic nonono
>wat do
We've had so many threads like that

>>50641011
http://warhammerfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Mournfang
Fantasy, pre end times you cunt.
>>50641029
I said bleeding don't work, i was unsure of infection.
>>50641039
And how long are you going to let it rampage in your lines? How long are you going to keep the men-at-arms rallied when something dead is causing as many casualties as something living? How long are all the mercenaries going to stay before they decide the pay ain't worth it?

>>50641029
>You are ignoring that they are fat, tall and loud
Fat and tall, yes. Loud, hardly. Ogres want to hear their tales unlike maneaters who just shout as loud as they can.
>So what? You and your family will live another day and enemy won't win, you can build another house later. Again history shows us that people would do that and it worked.
I mean, if you're fine with this, ogres still win the conditions initially presented in this scenario as the army or people can't rally to actually force them out, just poke at them as they come through.

>>50641056
>I said bleeding don't work
Bleeding would work, question is how to cause it. Huge animals like behemoths and elephants were hunted in such manner on Earth. They are huge, strong and can't be killed by human with a single blow. Hunters used javelins (which penetrate deeper than arrows) and lots of bleeding wounds to take them down.
>And how long are you going to let it rampage in your lines?
Scipio and Alexander trained their troops to maneuver on command when elephants approached the lines. Again I'm not going to engage in open battle at all. Ogres want it but I don't.

>>50641093
>I mean, if you're fine with this
I'm fine with that. Again people did it in our world and it worked. Life is much more valuable than a building.
>Loud, hardly
Ogre moving in a forest would make a lot of noise, especially if he smashes and eats the trees like you said before.

>>50641126
The munitions in question was arrows. If you're suggesting throwing javelins then yes, it'll work, but you're dedicating a bit more resources for what is now a guerrilla army. And every tree you take down for more is a better chance the hunters have to find you.

An elephant can move about 40km/h. A horse averages about 50 km/h in gallop. Mournfangs are typically faster than a horse simply by sheer size. While i'm not saying it can't be done, comparing nearly a professional military to militiamen led by lords makes out maneuvering a cavalry charge pretty damn hard.
>>50641148
Tree eating is last resort deal typically. Usually when other food runs out. And a hunter makes sure food doesn't run out. Bastards can and will track shit down from the highest peaks to the lowest valleys in the Mountains of Mourn. Though the conversation is nearly pointless by now considering that if the only hope for a nations survival is the routine retreat of the civilians off the farmland, a pre-gunpowder nation can't defeat an ogre army. The only question is how long would it take before maneaters start offering their services and Greasus starts asking for tithes rather than ransacking.

Yall do realize that the average Western Euro army in the middle ages was only around 50,000 men at the high ends right, and that once just 5-10% of casualties are sustained most armies will instantly break and scatter into the wind.

Right?

>>50641210

30000 troops tops
5-20% losses per unit & they break one by one - not all at once

Other than that, yeah - no argument there.

>>50641202
>And every tree you take down for more is a better chance the hunters have to find you
>>Though the conversation is nearly pointless by now considering that if the only hope for a nations survival is the routine retreat of the civilians off the farmland, a pre-gunpowder nation can't defeat an ogre army
You are grasping at straws here. The answer is pre-gunpowder nation can defeat an ogre if they don't act dumb like you desperately want them to do. Human army without anything on their side can't defeat inhuman army in a 'fair' fight so the point is to not fight 'fair'.

>>50641210
This. People think real life armies were all fighting through Warhammer level casualties until they drown the enemy I enough bodies, that's not how it fucking works. In fact, in Warhammer, the skaven, seen as extremely cowardly, probably have the most realistic reaction when it comes to taking casualties. You retreat and come back later, not sacrifice 75% of your troops in a pointless pitched battle. I hate these stupid HFY threads, from stupid shit like this one, to those modern earth vs threads where humans can suddenly weaponise all 7 billion citizens or they resort to nuking their own populace as a first resort >>50637517
>uses Warhammer ogres as OP image
>no magic or gunpowder
Why even bother using that pic?

>>50641258
Hiding in fucking forests while your farms and towns are ransacked is not winning, its staving off complete destruction. The ogres win, you admit defeat by leaving all your land to them to not die. They fuck off because they're nomadic and when they come back around you continue to run and hide until cannons come up. This is not winning. Just because Napoleon didn't sweep Egypt doesn't mean the ottomans won when every direct engagement they got scattered.

>>50641285
Nah dude, if you don't completely annihilate your enemy forces in a pitched battle that ends with your commander killing the enemy commander in a duel, then you didn't really win.

>>50641285
>Hiding in fucking forests while your farms and towns are ransacked is not winning
It is winning but at dire cost or playing by enemy rules and losing it all. If my statblock is weaker by default why would I submit to it like an idiot?
>The ogres win, you admit defeat by leaving all your land to them to not die
They can't remain here or they will become sitting ducks for partisans and night raids.
>They fuck off because they're nomadic
If they fuck off they same route they came they won't find any supplies and will have to eat each other. If they invade another country from your territory, it gives you perfect opportunity to double team them and attack their rear.
>Just because Napoleon
Funny that you've mentioned him. His army was routed from Moscow through the territory he'd already foraged. Land was barren and food scarce which caused serious casualties among much less gluttonous human soldiers.

>>50641355
Except when you give up literally everything you own just for a chance to not die, you're not still in the game, you're hanging on by a thread praying that something else will distract the dudes pushing your shit in. Again, you are not winning by having your entire civilization destroyed. You may not have lost yet since you're still alive but you sure as fuck cannot claim to be the victor. Especially not when the animals they brought, capable of killing ogres, become invasive species.
If they fuck off the same route they eat all the shit they hadn't already eaten meaning all game and crops and then rocks and trees since they were eating joe and tim, your former neighbors, after the battle. All things Napoleon's army wouldn't do because they're human and not ogres.

>>50641393
>Except when you give up literally everything you own just for a chance to not die
Give up your house you can rebuild in a year and not die or let yourself and your family be killed? That's a very simple choice right here.
>you're hanging on by a thread praying that something else will distract the dudes pushing your shit in
I don't. I attack him on my terms and don't give him opportunity to retaliate and push my shit in.
>Again, you are not winning by having your entire civilization destroyed
Civilization is our people and culture. To save it we must preserve the population.
>but you sure as fuck cannot claim to be the victor
Ever heard about king Pyrrhus? You can win a battle but only result of the war matters.
>If they fuck off the same route they eat all the shit they hadn't already eaten
Not very much will be left since ogres eat a lot. Imagine Napoleon's army but screwed twice as much.
>since they were eating joe and tim, your former neighbors
Joe and Tim fucked off to the woods. You ignore what people write to you.

>>50641468
>Give up your house you can rebuild in a year and not die or let yourself and your family be killed? That's a very simple choice right here.
Not when they're coming back the next year to tear it down again.
>Joe and Tim fucked off to the woods. You ignore what people write to you.
No they fucking didn't. This medieval nation full of pissant nobles and filled with religious fervor to kill the "devils" did not immediately piss off to the woods because one asshole suggested leaving all their shit to burn was the smarter idea for keeping all the people alive. They rallied an army, marched out, got their shit pushed in, then ran the fuck away.
>Not very much will be left since ogres eat a lot. Imagine Napoleon's army but screwed twice as much.
You mean every rock and every tree along the path with a small quelling of their numbers from cannibalism that would have taken place anyways.
>Civilization is our people and culture. To save it we must preserve the population.
Yeah, and you still lost the war because your civilization was forced into swamps while every single achievement was destroyed. Meanwhile the ogres still won because the destruction of your society was never even the goal, they just wanted food and a fight which they will get in spades and continue to get as they rampage through the countryside and then into the next country.
>Ever heard about king Pyrrhus? You can win a battle but only result of the war matters.
Except you completely ignore the ogre's objective. A phyrrihc victory is one that still denies the enemy while sustaining great losses. You denied the ogres nothing but human meat. They now have every horse, cow, pig, goat, carrot, chicken, potato and everything else that a medieval society produces.
Once more, you don't declare you win just because the murderer left with just taking all your stuff, you thank god he didn't kill you and pray he doesn't come back to finish the job. You don't win by surviving, you win by stoppin ogres

A lot of Ogre fags running with the goalposts in this thread.

>>50641534
>Not when they're coming back the next year to tear it down again.
They must leave the country alive first.
>filled with religious fervor to kill the "devils"
That's just your wishful thinking for even more pathetic and weak enemies than pre-gunpowder and magicless humans are.
>You mean every rock and every tree along the path
Yep. Luckily enough humans don't eat rocks and it doesn't affect our supplies.
>Yeah, and you still lost the war because your civilization was forced into swamps
We didn't lost the war, the goal is to live and deplete enemy forces. Quite the opposite, we took historically accurate route to win the war.
>A phyrrihc victory is one that still denies the enemy while sustaining great losses.
They will take a lot of casualties from starvation, our ambushes, raids and infighing (because they are pissed and frustrated).
>They now have every horse, cow, pig, goat, carrot, chicken, potato
Yeah, yeah, everything besides stuff we took with us. On top of that they don't have our lives which is a big plus, don't you think so?
>Once more, you don't declare you win just because the murderer left with just taking all your stuff
>You don't win by surviving
I declare that I win when he can't kill me and I kill him, even if the win is cheap, dirty and ruthless. I do win by surviving, history is written by survivors. Deal with it.

>>50641534
>>50641636
Behead autists

>>50641631
And a lot of peasant fags pretending that the Huns destroying everything you own but leaving them alive for future tribute means the peasants win.
>>50641636
>they must leave the country alive first
And there you go pretending that they'll score any significant amount of casualties as a bunch of peasants with big spears against 8 foot tall monsters with fucking cannons and hunting packs of sabre tooth tigers.
No, history is written by the guys who didn't get all their shit burned down. That may be your allies, it may be the people who burned your shit down. You living doesn't mean that suddenly you win, it means that you get a second chance to not die. So stop fucking pretending that your life is meaningful in the least when the ogres never gave a shit about you to begin with. Any loot is good loot and you left them plenty with abandoned towns and forts. Oh those Huns and Mongolians sure are remembered for being the losers because they couldn't conquer everyone. Yep.

>>50641717
>And there you go pretending that they'll score any significant amount of casualties as a bunch of peasants with big spears
I have to agree with >>50641631
You are just moving goalposts at this point. It's just so boring to wank to super duper power fantasy curb stomping weak and dumb opposition. I don't understand how you enjoy it.
>No, history is written by the guys who didn't get all their shit burned down.
I see you don't know history. Hannibal and Pyrrhus didn't write history despite winning battles spectacularly. Their enemies who won the war wrote it and pictured parcipants the way they want.

>>50641777
>You are just moving goalposts at this point.
No i'm not. I'm still sticking by the same question the thread was started with, could a pre-gunpowder army beat an ogre army and the answer is a resounding no. A guerrilla peasant army barely surviving does not count as beating an ogre army and nation that is blitzed by an obviously superior opponent wouldn't even get the chance to ewok them. Ogres would take the one big battle, scatter the army, stay for maybe 30 days to take what they wanted, then move on. And if they manage to remake their cities in tatters to write down they got their shit pushed in, then so be it. It is this simple. Ogres would not be succeptable to a normal human, pre-gunpowder, guerrilla force unless they stayed there the entire damn time setting up for when the ogres next came around. If you want to argue second or third contact then sure but i'm still arguing from the position of this is the first month of meeting the bastards.
If this thread wasn't meant to be a curb stomp then it shouldn't have been ogres, the race that successfully raids every other nearby race with near impunity despite magic, steampunk tech, and combinations of the two.

>>50641831
>No i'm not.
You are, the answer to OP is pre-gunpowder army can beat an ogre army but not in direct confrontation which is dumb and wasteful.
>A guerrilla army does not count
History says otherwise.
>Ogres would not be succeptable to a normal human, pre-gunpowder, guerrilla force
Wank wank
>If this thread wasn't meant to be a curb stomp then it shouldn't have been ogres
Stop making such dumb threads for your powerwanking as this and waste board space. You are just as bad as 'elf slave wat do' crap which at least gets deleted on spot.

>>50641875
>You are just as bad as 'elf slave wat do' crap which at least gets deleted on spot.
I'd say worse, as I can't fap to ogres

>>50641897
Yeah, that's too

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MEANWHILE, IN BRETTONIA

>Knights with Lances, Swathes of peasants with pole-arms, and trebuchets can destroy ogres.

>However, in the real world, Knights with lances, Swathes of peasants with pole-arms, and trebuchets can't kill ogres.

Okay.

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>>50641875
Alright, tell me how the group that can shrug off arrows would get beaten within 30 days of encountering a guerrilla army. Tell me how the race that regularly gets cut off and outnumbered but always fucking takes said disadvantageous battle would get bested by a guerrilla army in 30 days. Tell me how this race that brings the cold of winter, along with incredibly deadly predators who are accustomed to stalking and hunting prey in said environment would get beat by a human guerrilla army within 30 days of encountering them. Tell me how a race that always has some dumb idiots wrestling all through the night and predator animals accustomed to much worse environments would get ambushed in the night with less than 30 days of preparation. 30 days within encountering to actually make a significant enough result in ogre numbers that they don't want to come back. These are the conditions that I have been making my assumptions under the whole time because ogres don't stay long enough for more time for a damn guerrilla army to make a difference. Them losing anything more than 10 ogres a night is called tuesday and a guerrilla army without guns put on the spot will not inflict much more than that.
>>50641897
You're just not trying hard enough.
>>50641938
How many real world magic knights do you know of?

>>50641956
I didn't say grail knights you silly.

Most Brettonian Knights aren't magic. Unless you count long lengths of wooden pole as magic.

>>50641956
>tell me how the group that can shrug off arrows
You ignored previous posts again, in this case post about missiles. I don't see any point in reading your further post.

>>50641967
What battle in brettonia doesn't have grail knights or even knights of the realm with their enchanted shit? I want to know.
>>50641975
Yes, because slaughtermasters and butchers enhance their already robust systems to full regeneration.

>>50641956
>Tell me how the race that regularly gets cut off and outnumbered but always fucking takes said disadvantageous battle

So what you're saying is that ogres are so retarded that they can easily be baited into fighting under disadvantageous conditions, and therefore slaughtered?

Also, the fact that Bretonnia can BTFO Ogres with nothing more than horses, lances, and fighting spirit destroys your entire argument, you rabid ogrefag.

>>50641831
>the race that successfully raids every other nearby race with near impunity

Raids are fucking easy, familia. The whole point of a RAID is that a sizable force cannot be amassed in time to meet and catch it. Raids were the staple of actual, factual medieval warfare because they offered a *safe* and effective way of harassing the enemy.

So, basically, what this tells us is that Ogres are a bunch of no-balls nancies too afraid to take an honest battle against the Empire, because they know that they'll be slaughtered by an actual disciplined army with an actually competent leader.

>>50642159
This. Literally vikings tier

>>50642141
Do post the link please. Because small groups of ogres have fought off entire skaven armies (due to routing) and groups of chaos warriors that far outnumbered a mercenary group were completely turned by the maneaters employed by said group.
>>50642159
Yes. By and large ogres are not yet organized enough to beat out most other armies because those armies bring discipline but also cannons or magics to match their might. A medieval army, having no such advantage, and abiding by actual human laws than warhammer canon of fighting to the last man, would break on the first few charges because they were not yet professional armies.

>>50642179
>A medieval army...would break on the first few charges because they were not yet professional armies.

Oi I am laffin'

Don't bother posting about medieval armies if your conception of what they were comes from Hollywood pop history, anon. Medieval armies weren't a bunch of jerkoff peasants with sticks. Far more often than not, a hard core of skilled and experienced warriors comprised most, if not all of the army.

Real, human armies did stand in the face of cavalry charges again, and again, and again, despite the absolute terror of a pounding wave of horsemen. In a world where humans have been familiar with ogres for thousands of years, the reaction to ogres would be no different. They are an intimidating foe, to be sure, but competent troops could and would stand their ground, and while being impaled with a few spears may not kill an ogre instantly, they'll bleed out just like anyone else.

This also ignores the fact that any human army fighting an ogre army will pick advantageous terrain that they are familiar with, the ogres being too retarded to not offer battle, and will likely be able to prepare the ground with the same kind of traps that weakened devastating cavalry charges in real life.

>>50632045
Better question: Undead armies.

They never tire, invulnerable to bleeding and disease (Which was the big cause of deaths in med warfare) and generally ignorant to fear and spear formation.

Great fear tactics, every kill they get is a new soldier and throwing fire about is a double edged sword.

>>50642224

Oh, undead armies would be far more dangerous than some mouthbreathing ogre rabble. Far more terrifying to morale, can only be killed by massive trauma to specific areas, and their absolutely relentless and implacable nature virtually guarantees victory to begin with.

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>>50632045
>How does an army that must break physics just to exist fare against a physically inferior race which I have arbitrarily disallowed from breaking physics or even using setting appropriate technology

Gee anon, I dunno. That's a real brainteaser.

>>50642224
Same thing as all other warhammer fantasy armies, including ogres. They fucking stomp because its goddamn warhammer.

Seriously, this thread is like people complaining that someone saying a company of SM would stomp a modern military. There are some viable arguments, no doubt, but its goddamn warhammer, a genre known for being over the top and stupidly obnoxious.
>>50642236
>Far more terrifying to morale
Mildly so I'd say. Being eaten alive is never not fucking horrifying even if its just a rumor. Meanwhile being undead is a lower level but constant fear. Though if they could somehow figure out and get to the necromancer they have a chance but that depends on actually seeing the bastard.

>>50642280
>Being eaten alive is never not fucking horrifying even if its just a rumor.
Undead have zombies so they get the eating you alive bonus too, I'd say

>>50642293
Completely forgot about them. Always thinking of TOMB KANGZ skeletons. That or werewolves. Can never get enough of those bastards.

>>50642236
>their absolutely relentless and implacable nature virtually guarantees victory to begin with.
Its not even that, a zombie would not stop to consider you at all and would just go 0 to fuck you in a second flat.

You cant fight them really properly because you never get a breather or time to wind up a strike if you manage to bonk them, cause they will be all over you.

>>50642280
Im not asking for warhammer, in generic fantasy terms of general undead tropes how would a cirka 1400s army without firepower deal with undead?

>>50642309
>Im not asking for warhammer, in generic fantasy terms of general undead tropes how would a cirka 1400s army without firepower deal with undead?
That adds a lot more variables to the question then. Are they raised and controlled by a necromancer or is it some virus or satan or what? Can it raise only the recently deceased or bring back the bones of ancient monsters and shit too? Regardless, seeing as how the black plague caused one of the only times in human history where the population of the world was actually falling from year to year, i'd say it'd do pretty damn well.

That's the whole point of ogres.

They're almost supernaturally tough and strong, and if they were smart enough to organize, they'd stomp everyone else with ease.

But they're stupid and greedy and impulsive.

>>50632045
Catapult and balista

>>50642339
Hm, necromancers dicking about raising heroes and hordes, the bigger/older the corpse the weaker and uncontrollable the horde kinda deal.

General tropes, bites infect, vampires die in sunlight, necromancers are really, really, really awful people.

>>50642355
Well that's just it, before End Times there were plenty of hints dropped that small groups of ogres could organize and Greasus uniting the tribes. Squads of ironguts sweeping through skaven centers or maneaters taking whole offensives on the chin or mournfang cavalry reported to single handedly win battles with a charge. When they can unite, just like with the civilization of the giants of old, they destroy fucking everything. And they easily are in my top 3 factions just for that reason. On the cusp of realizing their own greatness as a species and the world would have changed to suit them afterwards. Then End Times. Undead, Ogres, and Beastmen followed shortly by Tilea.

>>50640509
>>Multiple gargantuan creatures with thick skin that are about as tall as two men end to end and don't care that you're pointing a stick at them


And then it get Cantabrian circled by horse archers.

If it's lucky it'll kill one or two before the other 30 or 40 fill it and it's mount full of arrows.

>>50636934
Hell, even a decent shield wall co help to even the odds

>>50632166
Thats a terrible idea. Imagine what agriculture would be left after THEY give up and go home.
You may aswell just kill yourselves.
Or invite Grandfather's embrace.

Could an unarmed human fight an unarmed ogre in an mma tothedeath ring?

>>50643938
>Beowulf
And win.

>>50641956
So what youre saying.. is Araby would win .

>>50632045
Depending on the orgres size and armour, heavy cavalry could do some damage

Archers, Superior fortresses, sabotage of ogre food supply so like sneakier more espionage style shit. Massed archers with fortifications. Since realistically it would take many footman to bring down 1 ogre

>>50639677

>Last but not least, i was not talkin about 10 mounted archers, more like 1000.

>"A medieval army" equal The biggest army known to men that only ever fought in huge plains or outnumbering 10 to 1

Wew lad, then lets go for Aos Ogre that outnumber 100 to 1 the earth and lets rekt the earth i guess ?
Also even those 10000 weeaboo couldn't even hurt a Stonehorn

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>>50641938
Did you read the codex ? all bretonnian army, and i means ALL, pray before battle. There prayers turn into REAL INVULNERABLE SAVES.
The lady of the lake is an High elf and bless constantly good knight and peasant alike, through the ladies of bretonnia.
Ladies that can direct fucking COMETS FORM OUTER SPACE to fall on their opponents.

Also pic of one of the best "medieval fortress"

Well in Warhammer Fantasy, a simple Bretonnian peasant armed with a longbow, shooting at a single Ogre, has a 0.165 chance of hitting and wounding it.

A Empire State Trooper with a Crossbow, on the other hand, has a 0.25 chance of hitting and wounding an Ogre.

Taking either of these stat-lines as bases for an average medieval solider, armed with either weapon, we might be able to calculate their chance.

Obviously, there are more factors than that. How many Ogres are there verses the human army? What are army compositions? What is the terrain like?

>>50645112
You know the tabletop and the lfuff are completely different thigns right ? that's like saying that Darth vader cannot bring more than 100 trooper with him because you hit the limit of population in Empire at war.

If they did not do that you'll be unable to play with empire or bretonnia without shelling 600 models

t.waacfag that never reads a codex

>>50632045
>>50632045

Back when Ogres were cool as fuck mongol cannibals more terrifying than the worst of chaos

What the fuck happened

>>50632045
Superior technology and tactics. There are plenty kinds of medieval era technology that I doubt ogres would have as much access to as humans with industry and infrastructure.

>>50632045
Fortifications. Massed archers. Cavalry archers. Massive numerical superiority.

Any one or more of those would do it.

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>>50632045

>>50645867
I bet at this point OP wished he's used a picture of something other than WFB ogres.

>>50632045
With AIDS and really big traps

>>50643870
>Not stripping the land bear before retreating into your castle
Do you even siege bro?

>>50647209
>stripping the land bear
Hot.

>>50647269
Needs a drawfag for this

>>50646776
OP here.
Yeah, this.

>>50632045
Essentially the Fabian Doctrine, but with more missile weaponry and spears.

>>50643100
>I don't know what multiple means

You're fighting an army of these. Not just one you can circle to death.

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>>50632045
Pikes, crossbows and trebuchets? It's all about keeping the fleshy, dumb brutes as far away as possible while raining death upon them.

I can also see advances in mobile or easy-to-build fortifications happening. Kind of like those battle wagons from the Hussite wars but with crossbows.

>>50647269
Sieging>spelling

>>50632045
The ogres would never make it to battle, as all of them die of square cube bipedalism the moment they hit realspace.

>>50632045
Battlefield heavy weapons and archers.

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>>50637322
Well if you're fighting Italian tanks, you just knock on the hatch and tell them to open up then kill them with your sword. You can also get a bunch of your buddies to grab some sturdy sticks and flip them over. (Things that actually happened in the Second Italo-Abyssinian War.)

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>>50644981
>Calling a mongol horse archer a weeaboo

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>>50632045
With their army of gryphons.

ITT
>WH fans ruins thread by autism

>>50632045
katanas

Strength 3 (5 if using a great weapon) against toughness 4 is far from impossible.

>>50652136
>ITT HFY faggots think real life humans are the same as Warhammer humans
FTFY

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>WHFB
>AoS
Step aside edgy kids, superior ogres incoming.

>>50650234
This.
Warhammer ogres cannot defeat the gravity of real world medieval war.

>>50637879
underrated

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Forget ogres, could any real life pre-1700s army stand any chance at beating an army of chaos warriors? How woukd various real world civilizations, like the Mongols, Romans or crusaders have dealt with fm such a threat?

>>50632045
Strategery

>>50657615
>muh power-level
Literally Warhammer fans are the worst.

>>50657657
>whining instead of making even a half assed attempt to answer the question

Assblasted HFY fags are truly cancer

>>50657727
>Assblasted
>Says WHFB fan
Yeah sure.

>>50657615

Depends on if they have to work under any sort of logic as opposed to the GRIMDERP nonsense that allows everything in WH games to survive more than a couple days

>>50657615
>crusaders
>civilization
Going on a holy war does not magically change your culture.

>Mongols
Fuck up everyone resisting with a shitload of arrows over long ranges while on a horse. Followed by a mop up with heavy cav.
Bro up with anyone wanting to join.

>romans
Which time period?
East or West?

At their high times as unified empire: throw men at them until they are dead.
Late west: all the harassment with germanic auxilia.
Early byz: throw men at them until won or buy them off.
Mid byz: buy them off.
Late byz: die.

If it's a tzeentchian army byz would be lucky. Anyone devoted to Tzeentch would love the ERE.

>>50632045
Drain the swamps

>>50640112
>>50640119
FOR FUCK'S SAKE, PUT YOUR PENISES AWAY AND TALK ABOUT THE ARMY OF OGRES.

>>50632045
Every single of those fucking threads is like this:
>could a real-life army defeat an army of X
>maybe, X isn't that bad anyway
>rapid army of X fans appears
>X IS ABSOLUTE FUCKING INVULNERABLE, NOTHING CAN DEFEAT X, YOU ALL PATHETIC FAGS SHOULD JUST LIE AND DIE
>thread devolves into X rapid fans screaming left and right and some idiots who try to reason with them and explain that X isn't that great
>most of the time X is too badly defined and blatantly over-the-top to even compare it to the real world
>doubly so if X is an Warhammer army

>>50651265

The Italian military is an possibly the longest running joke in history.

It'll take nothing short of a new Caesar to break that trend.

Tell me the ogre average height and weight.
The average lifespan of a ogre too

Ogres are slow. Warfare is speed.

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>>50632045

Pretty much fighting in a proper formation alone, would give you an immense advantage over ogres.

Polearms, artillery, cavalry with big ass lances, vastly superior armor and superior numbers. Really nothing unthinkable for medieval armies to pull off.

I'd actually say that normal bows wouldn't even be that effective. They are designed to kill humans and even struggle with horses without proper arrow heads.

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You'll win any battle with the true gods on your side

>>50632166
Yeah but they're OGRES
They can just break down the castle walls with their damned fists

>>50637879
Then mop up the survivors with mercenaries that are paid by recovering the gold you paid the first half. The surviving mercaneries are then arrested for tax evasion, the funds are confiscated by the crown.

try to be a Habsburg would you?

>>50640509
That's a quick way to kill a stupid creature.

>>50641717
Yeah, but all the ogreboos ITT are pretending pikes, poisons, lances, and heavy cavalry/archers "wouldn't do shit" to ogres simply because ogres are...like, big? Or something? Is that really their excuse? We can't kill ogres because they're...big?

Wow. Such a marvelous assessment of an ogre's capabilities! If I got stabbed by a pike from someone half my size and strength, I WOULD STILL FUCKING DIE. How much can an ogre army eat? How well could they coordinate themselves in battle? How much of themselves would they even kill before walking up to my city gates? And all of a sudden, ogres have the ability to smash through stone walls with their bare fucking fists? WHAT?! How the FUCK does that work? If you shrunk a brick wall down to half its width and height, it's not like I'd suddenly be able to just smash right through it on my own with my bare fists. It's not like whacking a stone wall with my hand suddenly wouldn't hurt me anymore. STONE IS STILL HARD. No matter HOW much force a 12 foot giant could muster up with all his strength, he can NOT punch through a 3 foot thick wall.

And poisons can't hurt them because, like, "they're so tough and shieeeeet"? Literally what? Humans can drink rattlesnake venom no problem, but if you got even just one drop into your fucking bloodstream, you'd keel over in a day or two. Don't be retarded. A black mamba could kill a fucking elephants. You're honestly telling me 1 or 2 poison arrows wouldn't, AT THE VERY LEAST, keep an ogre out of the fight? You're telling me he'd somehow...overcome toxic shock because life is like an anime and all you need is HEART and FIGHTING SPIRIT to nullify the effects of cardiac arrest?

This is just ridiculous. An entire army of unarmored, poorly trained, poorly managed, hungry, stupid, one-minded giants could not hope to defeat a vastly more numerous, coordinated, highly mobile army, even if the giants were TWENTY feet tall.

Ogreboos BTFO. How can they ever compete?

>>50632045
Did you ever imply it was a warhammer ogre army

>>50647269
What's the difference between a regular bear and a land bear?

>>50668729
Well he used Warhammer ogres as his OP pic so we assumed so.

>>50668666
>You're honestly telling me 1 or 2 poison arrows wouldn't, AT THE VERY LEAST, keep an ogre out of the fight? You're telling me he'd somehow...overcome toxic shock because life is like an anime and all you need is HEART and FIGHTING SPIRIT to nullify the effects of cardiac arrest
Well when a motherfucker spends most of his downtime pit fighting in the muck and rot of leftover feasting he becomes rather inured to disease. Combined with butchers and his own bulk a poison arrow don't do much.
>ogres have the ability to smash through stone walls with their bare fucking fists
Ogres have the ability to fucking stand which they shouldn't logically do in a non-magical world, they can put out more strength than what would be logical. 3 foot of stone with bare fists? No, but they have tools for that: cannons, giants, rhinoxen, just some ironguts with enough time.
>coordinated
Coordination doesn't count for shit when you have your entire center torn apart off of one leadbelcher volley or mournfang charge or giant magic blast powered by pure hunger. Their morale will break and ogres have more than enough resources to make numbers meaningless as evidenced by their fights against the skaven.

>>50669015
EATING something and having your digestive system take care of it is NOT the same as having the poison directly enter your bloodstream through traumatic injury. Also, poison and disease are not the same thing. If a single bite from a spider can kill a horse, I'm near certain a poison-tipped arrow would, at the very LEAST, cripple an ogre

Also, I'm not assuming we're using Warhammer ogres, as OP has clearly stated many times in this thread before. I'm assuming we're fighting some random, unspecified, generic race of ogres, measured in their large frame, low intellect, and massively powerful brawn, but low numbers.

>Ogres have the ability to stand...
Like I said, I don't think regular ogres in this generic scenario would have access to cannons, giants (I mean, aren't they already technically giants?), rhinoxen (we're not using that setting), or ironguts. It's just large, 12 to 15 foot tall giants with various axes, swords, shields, and maybe-probably-not-even cavalry. And even then, you'd need to get VERY close to the wall, which means boiling water, rocks from slings, arrows, burning pitch, and a whole slew of other things ogres generally do not have defenses for.

>Coordination doesn't count for shit
Except it does. Mobility, mobility, mobility. You line up your men in pike formation, and when some over-eager ogres charge, it leaves their main body vulnerable to flanking cavalry. All the while, they're getting hailed on with poisoned arrows and catapult fire from 200 yards away. Ogres can be easily baited into traps and even a green general could defeat them because ogres make rookie mistakes he used to make when he was just 14.

Also, for the LAST time, OP himself has said we're NOT using warhammer ogres. Just regular old, generic ogres. THIS is goalpost moving, as plain and simple as it gets, because I'm almost CERTAIN you saw his post where we're told we're not using warhammer ogres.

Face it, ogres would get BTFO in a real-life scenario.

>>50669251
>OP himself has said we're NOT using warhammer ogres
Fucking where? I saw him not wanting Warhammer undead specifically but nothing about ogres. And no fucking shit if its not warhammer ogres with their magic and cannons ogres will fucking lose since their only advantage there is strength and resilience where, unless they're outright immune to damage, they will take enough wounds over time and die. This is exactly why I use warhammer ogres because its not a fucking
>stomp on dumb barbarians
day, its a
>there are many variables that play in here but one side will succeed in their strategic objectives long before the other unless some great fucking general steps up and does some heroic shit
And no motherfucker its not moving the goalposts when he fucking starts the thread with a warhammer image clearly leading the thought process with those ogres in particular. If he had used a D&D pic, I would use those ogres instead which would almost definitely lose because D&D humans are relatively close to normal humans and can run them off in their own setting.

>>50637172
If we're going to take this thought excersize seriously at any point, then giving Ogres magic and gunpowder when OP literally stated that they'd be facing a medieval army "without access to firearms and magic" makes the Ogres win automatically.

I don't care what the WHFB Ogres had, even if that's what OP used as his picture, there's no way that humanity would win if they had their guns and magic taken away in that situation. Sieges wouldn't work, infantry numbers advantage would be negated by black powder weapons, and that would be that.

BUT if we actually use our brains and look at a setting where neither side has magic or black powder, then Humanity could potentially win. Otherwise its just Ogres autowin

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>>50637172
this is just embarassing

>>50670056
But muh guerrilla warfare though.
>neither side has magic or black powder, then Humanity could potentially win
It'd require some great tacticians though. I'm not too familiar with feudal leaders so I don't know how prevalent they are but if its just a bunch of glory seeking nobles they're getting eaten.

>Ballistas.
>20 to 1 numerical superiority.
>Thick ass pikes with barbed ends to restrict movement and induce pain.
>Arrows with potent venom.
>Spiked barricades.
>Divide and conquer them with lance cavalry.
>If you need to have a pitched battle, make sure you have the high ground to potentially get at their throats
>Pretty much everyone equipped with 2 handed weapons because shields ain't gonna do shit and you need a lot of weight behind your blows.

But above all the most effective method would be to harry their food supply. Ogres are not particularly fast, and a dedicated platoon of mounted hunters could starve them to death.

>>50632045
> Army of pikes, halberds and catapults
or
>Army of Archer cavalry
or
>Greek fire and scorch earth/biological warfare them to death

>>50637322
Finnish infantry in the Winter War went up against Soviet tanks, often without any anti-tank weapons, and still managed to beat them.

At first, yes, a Medieval army would flee at the presence of a tank. But give it time, after a while, they'll build the courage to fight it, and when the tank runs out of bullets or fuel, the real fun begins

>>50657615
>1600's European Armies fielded way more gunpowder than WHFB Empire armies
>Pikes were way longer too
I'd say Chaos would have a hard time, especially with their infantry getting pelted by bullets and cannon balls, while their cav gets out maneuvered by Euro cav and cock-blocked by pikes.
Ultimately, in CQC and with magic, they'd kick ass, but how many casualties would they sustain before they even got that close?
Demons are another matter entirely

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>>50632045

Approximately 4.92 x 10^91 Yari Ashigaru

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DkFJUCADk2w

>>50632045
Lots and lots of pikes and longbowmen. Ogres are big fat pincushions.

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>>50632045
lots of arrows. catapults, balistae. really big logs set on fire and rolled down a hill. smallpox.

William Wallace on pcp?

>>50632045
Warhammer ogres are largely unarmoured, eat mostly meat and have very little cavalry.

Harassing tactics and getting rid of their supplies would sort them right out, especially if you have horse archers or just a lot of guys on horses.

Now, on the other hand, if someone who wasn't a retard was equipping and making decisions for the ogres, humanity would be pretty fucked.

Killing a giant caveman swinging a club around isn't harder than killing other big animals. You just shot arrows at them until they fall over.

But if they actually used all their physical advantages and were equipped to the same standard as humans, all bets are off.

A mace or a polearm proportioned for an ogre will go through a human sized knight like a knife through butter. A human archer won't be able to do jack shit against someone wearing plate armour that's twice or thrice as thick as the human equivalent.

Fuck, a bunch of ogres with really big and thick shields and some long clubs would paste any human shield wall.

When you're that big and strong, you can break up a charge of armoured knights just by having everyone in the front line picking up a rock and chucking it at them.

If some crazy wizard or whatever recruited ogres and trained them in rudimentary tactics and used human support personnel, and combined formation and arms tactics, they'd be unstoppable.

>>50639267
Uh, excuse me, he's obviously an Age of Sigmar retard, not a Warhammer fan.

>>50639551
Sorry, redshirt. AoS is a failure.

Shrek here sure is cranky.

>>50641327
chuckled

>>50641210
Let's not forget though the amount of times Roms would lose armies numbering 30k plus with 90% casualty rates at least only to do it again later. Medieval armies were limited more by the size of each individual factions and it's resources, not the total amount of resources and manpower in medieval Europe.