/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

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>Relinking this because Goddamnit someone is going to appreciate this with me

American Murder Song gives me a great Requiem feel. It's a series of EPs (and associated teasers and a touring show) featuring "murder ballads", set in 1816, "The Year Without A Summer", by the minds behind REPO: The Genetic Opera and The Devil's Carnival.

It's also really fucking good.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnmAsCr4Rjg&list=PLntpqKZHEmqPmDmW4hzPH6vtkzzfkFRdC

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-T009gPc5c0&list=PLntpqKZHEmqOSCXb1EDh0QuCeNuCNkrPk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDNib483whg&list=PLntpqKZHEmqMP-FK-PNB8POYhmdLhRgqy

I don't know why it specifically makes me think of Requiem, though you could also say it's pretty Hurt Lockery.

>>50620383
>Have you ever run (or played in) a mortals game?
I once played in a Hunter game where we never even thought of ourselves as Hunter, and had no contact or assistance from anyone else.

Set back in Feudal Japan.

Good shit.

>Played in a mortals game

The first NWoD game I ever played was a mortals game that ran for 3 years. Started out using the haunted tree story from the Ghost Stories book, expanded out from there as we started as college students (two hockey jocks, a cheerleader, a goth druggie, a Fox Mulder nerd, eventually added not-Paris Hilton and a supernatural scientist). We went through college with various hauntings and other meetings, after college and during careers we were 'recruited' (by forcibly ruining our lives) into a supernatural investigation group and we found out later, attempt to weaponize the supernatural, which ended up causing the zombie apocalypse/end of the world. We had a rule where we COULD become a supernatural, but if we did we had to transition out of the game. The goth girl became a werewolf when her husband died and she left; I almost became an Acanthus mage but I ran away from the tower. The end of that game was heartbreaking; my long-term PC husband (played by a good friend and bro of mine) got infected by the virus rescuing some scientists and people. I had to put him out of his misery, and became the 'lady who trains everyone how to be badass'. The shotgun, Bessie, became an heirloom of our settlement.

I ran the road trip story spine when GMC first came out. I had a lot of fun.

>>50620383
Not really. Hunter sure, never mortal.

>>50620383
>Have you ever run (or played in) a mortals game?
Of course I have. The best one-shots are mortals games.

Mortals games that progress past a few sessions kind of naturally turn into Tier 1 Hunter, though, because basically the only difference between Mortal and Tier 1 Hunter is "you don't fight monsters regularly).

>>50620383
>Have you ever run (or played in) a mortals game?
I play OWoD

Can a Beast imitate magic?
Right like as I understand it their nightmares can be used to mimic the THING of another.
Or is it all illusionary mental stuff when it comes to them? I've never really read the entire book.

>>50620621
I mean, i can see you being a magistrate or something and seeing killing oni or strange shit being part of the job.

But how exactly the characters didnt even tought of themselves as hunters? or atleast as guys that would took down strange stuff among other things.

I also enjoy more the so called Tier one hunters, no groups and special shit for normal humans.

>>50620921
Or if anyone could give me some pointers on what a Beast could learn from Mages and Changelings that would also be really helpful.

>>50620986
We never really "took anything down".
Think more Feudal Japanese Ghostbusters.

>>50621086
So no fighting spooky yokai?

>>50620921
Yes.
That's basically what they do. They Monkey See, Monkey Do and imitate the powers of other splats using their Nightmares, which are essentially exactly what it says on the tin: Mental effects that supernaturally spook the target based on the metaphorical dreaminess of the original powers. So it's not so much that a Beast copies someone's ability to set things on fire so much as they understand how to cause the fear of being set on fire.

For instance, in the Beast SAS, one of the NPCs is meant to be a psychic of some sort. He can teach the players a special Nightmare that [I'm too lazy to double check] makes you fear the future and eventually fuck up a roll.

>>50621038
You press your fingers against their forehead in a special way and mind meld.
I'm fucking with you, just talk to them and watch them

>>50621191
But the Beast can't actually set things on fire with their powers, just give people the fear that they are. Once it wears off they're fine?
Am I understanding this correctly?

>>50621349
Not with Nightmares, no. Though if someone burns with a Nightmare, they'll still likely leave a charred corpse if I recall correctly.

If you want to breathe fire, though, that's an Atavism.

>>50620383

I was in a 1e Mortals game where we played as ourselves that turned into a DRYH session that involved me vividly hallucinating in real life.

Fun times.

>>50621416
HM
I may have to rethink where I place them in the group's ranking then if this is all that they are capable of; illusionary damage outside of their specific avatisms.

>>50621621
I wouldn't think of it as "Illusionary damage".
The damage is real, even if it's a hallucination. Nightmares are the mind powers. Atavisms are your dragonfire and wings and Protean style claws. And I don't think Atavism is limited by type, either.

>>50620886
>because basically the only difference between Mortal and Tier 1 Hunter is "you don't fight monsters regularly).

I've always said the difference is that mortals encounter a monster and hope it never happens again. Hunters encounter a monster and go looking for the next one.

Did anyone ever say if Celerity allows you to use the Aim action and shoot in the same turn in V20?

>>50622097
>>50622097
So the Illusion is real?
Like... make a person die from your fire Nightmare and they will end up a charred corpse.

I think that Atavisms are what Beast self is; you want to be a dragon you get yourself some fire breathing, impenetrable hide and flying atavisms. While a mermaid gets what.... a luring voice and breathing underwater?

>>50622267
You quoted the wrong person, but yes, I believe so.

You know how it is. You die in the dream you die for real.

And you can take out-of-Family Atavisms.

>>50622097
Well, sure, but you can only have regular people running into monsters week after week before it strains credibility.

How do you stop a game from devolving into murder-hobo territory without railroading people too much?

>>50623955

By having players who give a fuck about the world and the characters within it.

By having players who can do the basic calculus that killing people doesn't actually solve that many problems in the WoD.

Basically, stop playing with shitty players.

>>50623955
By having actual consequences.

>>50623955
Option 1: Talk to them (the PCs) about it
Option 2: Have NPCs react as appropriate
Option 3: Put them in situations where murder would actually be counter-productive
Option 4: Tell them that you're going to stop running if they don't get their shit together (after option 1)
Option 5: Remind them of the negative effects of such actions
Option 6: Change your game from one where murder-hobo-ism is an appropriate response

>>50624030
>Option 6: Change your game from one where murder-hobo-ism is an appropriate response
So werewolf?

>>50624040

Even werewolves can't murderhobo. 6 werewolves without pack infrastructure behind them will be demolished by the kinds of things that pick fights with 6 werewolves.

You want Beast to murderhobo.

>>50623955

Either have them make characters who aren't crazy murderers or have their actions have consequences. It would also do well to explain that that this game is set in our modern world, where you don't really murder people the way you do in D&D.

>>50624030
Oh Anon you know this never works

>>50624111
I know, but I have to repeat it to myself in hope that one day I'll get a group that aren't total cuntbags

>>50624064
You can't expect PCs to apply reason empathy and logic to a game.

>>50623955
You put all the fun stuff behind non murder hobo areas. and you don't acknowledge the thrill of killing. You stab he dies. He bleeds open. Every shot is a one hit one kill. No combat rolls. there is blood a cop has been called. Basically you go all robotic no soul

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>>50624144
Hope is the most insidious poison

>>50624059
>You want Beast to murderhobo.

That doesn't work either. Who are Beasts going to murderhobo? Random mortals? One of the many monsters with an actual organized society?

>>50624001
>>50624011
>>50624030
>>50624064
>>50624170

To play devil's advocate combat should still be a viable tactic, perhaps not all the time but at least much of the time, especially since many splats have combat focused factions e.g. Arrow, Blood Talons, Carthians, etc.

>>50624223
>Random mortals?
Well, yes, why not?

>One of the many monsters with an actual organized society?
The ones weaker than them?

>>50623955
Either have the players make characters who are unwilling to murder people, or stop throwing NPCs at them who are begging to get killed. If all your NPCs are horrible evil monsters (or conversely, if your PCs are horrible evil monsters), your PCs are going to be killing them.

>>50624064
>It would also do well to explain that that this game is set in our modern world, where you don't really murder people the way you do in D&D.
I've been playing WoD for so long that I have a hard time having most of my D&D characters resort to lethal violence.

>>50624245
Oh no doubt. But that's distinct from murderhoboing.

>>50624245
>MurderHobo isn't a rampant illogical killing

Yeah we know the system has combat but murderhobo is a known game destroyer. Dozen of threads talk about this problem in more depth. The problem is when it destroys the verisimilitude of the game.

>>50624252
>Well, yes, why not?
It's incredibly boring and pointless.

>One of the many monsters with an actual organized society?

>Vampires
Have Blood Sorcery, can ghoul and brainwash an arbitrary amount of people, and abuse Dominate.
>Werewolves
Have their pack, fetishes (more broken than they appear at first glance), some really nasty Gifts, and the war form.
>Mages and Demons
lol

So i'm coming back to WoD (or is it CotD now?) and I have one question:

How bad is beast?

>>50624402
Kind of bad, but not as bad as some people make it out to be.

>>50624402
Not as bad as anyone tells you, but completely directionless and unfocused and with frankly nothing all that interesting going for it.

It's worth pirating, but unless you've got a good idea of what to do, there's no point in playing it.

>>50624402
It had potential, but it squandered it by pretending they were anything more than horrific parasites suckling on the primal terror of mankind.

What a fucking waste of being the "astral" splat.

>>50624402
It originally was basically an otherkin revenge fantasy, where beats dindu nothin' and fighting monsters who literally live off of human suffering apparently made you an irredeemable shitbag.

Now they stripped out the parts that made it interesting along with the parts that made it annoying, so now we've got a bland, directionless sandwich.

>>50624446
But that's basically exactly what it says they are.

When do the Carthians get the fighting style 52 Blocks?
http://fightland.vice.com/blog/the-legend-of-the-52-blocks?utm_source=fightlandfbus

>>50624506
Being something and being a great something are two different things. In this case they're a lackluster astral splat

>>50624669
>it squandered it by pretending they were anything more than horrific parasites suckling on the primal terror of mankind.
I meant this.

>>50624689
Well I was trying to be nice to it. but yeah thats pretty much it

>>50624753
No, I mean that the game itself acknowledges that fact, even if the characters don't. Much like how vampires don't acknowledge the fact that they're parasites.

>>50624689
That's though what I find interesting about beasts the implied duality. The fact that the human part of them isn't gone, it's become the super ego and something slumbering in the back of your mind for so long has become the ID.

Beasts seek meaning in their existance like anyone else. "What is the meaning of life?" becomes something beasts try to answer and some come up with the idea of "Hey the big bad wolf was there to teach the moral of the story if I'm like him then I need to make sure I'm teaching a lesson too." Or some other thing. It's that human part bubbling to the surface looking to establish rules and generate compromise through the Ego.

>>50624857
I know. I like that. It's why I like that Lessons exist *and* that they really are "tacked on".

It's like Dexter and his Code. Beasts' Code is just "I'm teaching lessons", while Dexter's is "I'm making the world safer for normal people".

>>50624837
Eh, not so much. Vampire are less parasites, and more predators.
Them being Parasites would imply they are dependent upon a singular organism.
They're no more parasites than we are by herding and cultivating cattle.
Which is something that the book makes abundantly clear.

Beast makes clear their relationship with society, then tries to ameliorate that by justifying it with this "lessons" bullshit. Vampires doesn't care about that, any justification for your bloodlust is individual, you merely must feed.

What's more Beast seems to be a game that's solely fixated on feeding. With Vampire, it's a key theme, but they've got so much more going for it.
What's more, I can't really see any good justification for beast-on-beast conflict unless someone stepped on someone else's plan to terrify someone.
And honestly, there's enough of that go go around.
Unlike reliable cattle.

>>50624837
>>50624895
The fact you can make both a argument that vampires are parasites and or predators is really good selling point of the game. and one of the conflicts found within.

Certainly they require and live off of another organism to survive which is parasitical in nature. and They can cultivate a population to prey upon as well.

>Sin eater recomended media
>Sixth sense
>Not Bringing Out The Dead
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfUwvmRmMtw

So as a starting storyteller with some experience of gming in other games seeking to run a Mage campaign for my D&D group, what would you recommend, ascension or awakening?

>>50625430
>D&D Group
Run and hide

>>50625442
They are new to role playing games in general, they got introduced to D&D first because it's what everyone thinks of when they hear tabletop RPGs and they are quite open to a story based game, onky one of them has any sort of murderhobo inclinations so introducing them to a storyteller game won't be a problem, I was just wondering which would be better to use for Mage, ascension or awakening and what the pros and cons of each are.

>>50625655
Biggest difference is the settings, look up a few summaries of each.
Personally, I see Ascension as making a character which fits within an existing setting, which can sometimes be incredibly complex.
Awakening allows you to be a bit more free to create your character as you like.

Biggest challenge for both however, is getting players to make the kind of characters who would actually BE Mages. I've had far too many people who've just wanted to play everymen who just happened somehow to Awaken.

>>50625882
I see, in that case I will probably go with awakening, do you have any advice on running the game, what themes to focus on. I'm planning on setting it in either modern day Rome or Munich, with the players having to deal either with the malus maleficarum or Chiron group respectively with, as well as several mages making pacts with abyssal entities and running lose in the city. I'm planning on emphasis g a sense of urban decay and a feeling of glories gone by, while having the local consilium harried by enemies on the outside and full of corruption within.

>>50622118
Bump?

>>50625430
Awakening. You won't have nearly the trouble you would with the more free form power of Ascension.

>>50624957
>Certainly they require and live off of another organism to survive which is parasitical in nature.
Not it isn't. By that logic every carnivore is parasite. Even every herbivore would be parasite as they need to eat plant organisms. I'm not plant expert, but (mostly?) they need organic nutrients from soil too.

So to the people who've gotten Secrets of the Covenants: was it worth the wait?

Daily reminder that the Invictus is best covenant.

>>50626328
They're actually haemovores, which is a seperate class of consuming organisms, along with leeches, mosquitoes, and vampire bats. They aren't predators or carnivores, or even parasitic.

>>50625655
>I was just wondering which would be better to use for Mage, ascension or awakening and what the pros and cons of each are.
DaveB once gave an indepth account of the differences between Ascension and Awakening.
If you are interested, you can find it here: http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/40817373/#40832122

>>50626345
Nope. It turned the Carthians into the Anarch Movement.

>>50627084
>Nope. It turned the Carthians into the Anarch Movement.

Wasnt that always the case?

>>50627119
Nah, they had more nuance. The new Carthians in this book are pretty much reduced back to a lot of the Anarch Movement's raw tropes, rather than their expanded role from 1e's Carthian book.

>>50626328
par·a·sit·ic
ˌperəˈsidik/
adjective
adjective: parasitic

(of an organism) living as a parasite.
"mistletoe is parasitic on trees"
resulting from infestation by a parasite.
"mortality from parasitic diseases"
derogatory
habitually relying on or exploiting others

Yes they can be parasitic stop being pedantic

>>50626345
Nope. Pirate it

>>50627802
>Pirate it

I would love to, but no one as yet shared Secrets of the Covenants and Hurt Locker.

>>50627644
Are you trying to be obtuse?
The last part of the definition is derogatory transferred meaning, it can be as well used for humans. That doesn't make them parasites.

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I'm in a Promethean game that's dragging along slowly due to holidays and :life: but I still haven't made my character. I can't seem to think of anything good. Originally I was going to go with Nana Natsu from Beast, but in Canada, and as an Unfleshed, since neither I nor the ST wants to deal with an Extempore. But I'm not a music person, so I was going to change it from a Vocaloid to a video game character.

I'm just not sure if a video game character as an Unfleshed is even an interesting concept to me or not. I'm not sure how I'd do it, and I'm not sure how fun it would be after six weeks, or even what I should do about my Bestowment.

I figure for the actual creation, I could be some programmer or designer's waifu who ended up coming to life somehow and animating one of those life size displays they make.

>>50628942
Alternately some /r9k/ loser's waifu come to life. Just straight up Weird Science about it. "Lightning is magic".

I'm thinking of running a cyberpunk Vampire game. Like "Dracula meets Ghost in the Shell" or something.

Is this a terrible idea or an awesome one?

Pleased to announce that Darker Days Radio will be the official podcast for World of Darkness: Berlin http://podcast.darker-days.org/e/darker-days-radio-teams-up-with-world-of-darkness-berlin/

>>50620383
>Have you ever run (or played in) a mortals game?
No. Fuck mortals. I play these games to be super.

>>50629336
I'd play in it

>>50629336

Could be cool. Both versions have support for it.

>>50629336
I'm running a cyberpunk OWoD game currently, and it's going pretty okay. If you want my conversion notes for it, just ask (Though they are all 2020 related, I'll warn you).

>>50629336
You wanna look into world of darkness mirrors:bleeding edge. Gives idea suggestions for how to make that work

>>50629962
Honestly the Demon STG handles augmentations better, though I don't like either of the settings.
Bleeding Edge basically just explains the concept of Cyberpunk

>>50629962
Oh, no way. Rad.

>>50629913
I'll probably be running my game in CofD, but I wouldn't mind seeing someone else's ideas on how to approach, it regardless of system.

>>50629704
>>50629739
Glad to hear I'm not totally crazy. The idea came out of nowhere while I was brainstorming the next game to run with my group, but the more I think about it the more I like it.

>>50620383
Yeah. It eventually turned into a Hunter game, but it started off with mortals being attacked by a slasher gang.

Was my way of introducing the game to several of my friends who had only played DnD. They absolutely loved it, and went on to play like 4 or 5 sessions before schedule changes made it almost impossible to go on.

>>50630005
>Bleeding Edge basically just explains the concept of Cyberpunk
From what I remember, it doesn't really give stats for anything at all. When I read it, despite being in to OWoD more, I was at least hoping for some vague stats or something that would make it easier for me. But no, I just got a book doing a not-so-great job at explaining what a genre is.

>>50630064
It's not super finished, as there's hundreds of things I need to stat, but it has all the core concepts down. http://pastebin.com/zNf67jvM

>>50629417
So now when you are officially BFF, can we still expect you to tear them a new one like with Beast?

>>50630064

Well, it's easy to play up whether or not the bloodsucking mega-corps are any better than the actual bloodsuckers, so it's a better fit than people expect.

>>50629465
Fucking Vampion fags.

>>50630210
Given we are not paid by them you can still expect us give honest reviews. We don't even get free review copies from DTRPG (it's been that way for a while now), so we maintain complete independence (which is also why we updated our logo recently so we can sell t-shirts etc).

If you wete to make a visualization of Reaching when spell casting for a show, how would you represent it?

>>50630241
Werewolf, my man. Fuck Vampires, too.

>>50630262
>psyhic character's nose starts bleeding

>>50630262
Something unnatural veins pop flourescent green, sparks fly, smells of sulphur, etc.

>>50630262
An anime-style internal monologue, complete with dramatic camera angles, wherein the Mage has a fierce internal debate over how much power he needs for his spell and how much he can risk "reaching" for.

Do werewolf form effects like 'sheeps clothing'/'primal fear' act like an aura effect?

>>50630540
What do you mean by like an aura effect?

>>50630241
Fucking non-supernatural plebs

>>50626008
Awakening is just as freeform as Ascension, they just bothered to include more examples.

Quick question. Started playing werewolf, how does regaining willpower work in your games? My ST seems very stingy and I'm an ahroun Get with short fuse, I've accepted that this will get me killed but it just sucks that I never get willpower back. Ever.

>>50630684
Like how it interacts with another supernatural entity like a changeling, vampire, mage, etc.

>>50630788
Oh, no. That's the Hunter's Aspect or whatever it's called, explicitly.

>>50630743
You get willpower back from sleeping dood, just act out your auspice duties

>>50630921
So what you're saying is my storyteller is a stingy cunt, great. This has happened before in other systems but it just doesn't work in werewolf. When I have nothing because I don't get points back and enemies always start with their full points we are going to get reamed.

>>50631482
Willpower should be spent often and restored often. Blood and Bone recover points. Sleep recovers points. Interaction with Touchstones recovers points. Various Conditions influence it.

>>50631608
I have played for 10 sessions and 1 point of willpower has been restored to one player. At the end of an episode we all had refreshed points. It's kind of disheartening, oh well, I'll just make new characters and have my ST realise the issues when I'm on my third or fourth.

I'm confused. Do I need to play hunter this

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/168428/Chronicles-of-Darkness?src=hottest_filtered

Or this

http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/1124/New-World-of-Darkness-Rulebook-1st-Edition?cPath=1_134&it=1

>>50631694
Does willpower matter all too much, really? It's only used for resisting mental effects, or adding +1 success to a roll.

>>50631694
That's an incredibly low rate of Willpower restoration. Bring it up with your ST.

I have Hurt Locker.

I will trade it for Secrets of the Covenants or Mage 2E's print pdf edition.

>>50631936
>>>/7ch/begging

>>50631778
I'm fairly sure it's used to stop yourself from raging? That's how we play it and I'm an ahroun Get with short fuse (-2 dificult on rage rolls) and 7 points of rage

>>50632060
You may be correct, yes. Sorry, I completely forgot you were playing Furry: The Yiffening

>>50630245
Great. Do you plan to review Mage or Promethean (or possibly one of those new supplements)?

>>50631748
Depends. 1st link is newest edition with slightly improved, streamlined rules; think nWoD 2e.
Problem is, that hunter doesn't have full 2e version yet. There is however supplement Hunter the Vigil: Mortal Remains which has guide to converting to the 2e. So you would need Chronicles of Darkness, HtV, HtV:MR.
With version 1e nWoD and HtV would be enough, at the cost of little worse rules.
In case you have nWoD rulebook and want to play 2e anyway, there is free God-Machine Chronicle rule update.
Or you can pirate all of that (Mega, link in pastebin doc linked from OP), have a look and decide for yourself.

>>50632180
Mage is next on the list, and another look at Werewolf will be done on Network Zero.

Secrets of the Covenants is on my list. Last month or so has been busy with various things, like prepping lectures, teaching, finishing a paper for submission etc etc etc. But we do plan to get on top of things again.

People with Secrets of the Covenants, I don't care much for the whole book, but could you please check if the ritual of birthing a god for Cruac is still there, and post the screen up?

I need to check if it changed, an NPC is using it in my game.

>>50630196
It did have a Merit for living in a cyberpunk setting, as well as a few examples of how to do augmentations, but they didn't go in depth and their examples weren't very good.

>>50630262
Actually, >>50630460 though the Dresden Files also have good examples of a character who plays around with Reach and Factors. There's one part in Summer Knight where he talks about needing enough power in a Fire spell to do the job, but not so much power that he sets himself on fire.

>>50630742
And better rules.

>>50631608
Calling himself an Ahroun Get, he's playing Apocalypse.

>>50631748
Hunter is still in it's first edition, so it was written for World of Darkness. There is, however, a rules update called "Mortal Remains" that will help you better run it in Chronicles of Darkness (though the rules update itself refers to the God-machine Chronicle Rules Update).

>>50632987
Birthing the God (•••••, Creation •••••)
Target Successes: 15
With this ritual, a member of the Circle opens himself up to the creative force of the Crone. His coven convenes, and each contributes Vitae and body parts as a sacrifice. The body parts can come from anywhere, from anything, but must be connected as part of the ritual. The sacrificed body parts must be enough to build a full, roughly humanoid form. The coven determines the god’s name, with each participant contributing one word to the epithet title. With the name, the blood, and the body, a thing exists where there was none before. Each such “god” is different. Some patchwork abominations, some strange amalgamations of numerous features, some otherworldly beautiful. No matter the form, these monsters are alien and unsettling.

>>50632987
For every Vitae contributed, the god receives one dot the Storyteller can contribute to Attributes or Disciplines. Ritualists must possess the Disciplines. This includes only the basic Disciplines available to every vampire, and Crúac. Alternatively, Celerity, Resilience, and Vigor can be given freely. For every three Vitae, it gains one effective Blood Potency. Each participant offers up a single Skill they possess, which the resulting god then possesses. The ritualists do not lose this Skill. The god enters the world with Vitae depending on its effective Blood Potency, and can spend Vitae as if it were Kindred. It exudes an aura that’s functionally identical to the vampiric predatory aura, but any Kindred witnessing it knows that it doesn’t face a Beast, it faces something else entirely. Determine its derived traits like Willpower normally. It cannot learn additional Disciplines, nor can it learn Devotions. However, if destroyed or otherwise banished from earth, it can be “recreated” by the same ritualists with improved capabilities. For every five Vitae spent creating the god, it has a level of Size. Under normal circumstances, the god has an indefinite lifespan. It loses one Vitae per day, and can replenish it by devouring flesh. Causing one lethal damage restores one of its lost Vitae. It quickly falls apart into nothingness if it loses all Vitae. Once crafted, the god rapidly grows inside the ritualist, and bursts out of him. This causes the ritualist a level of lethal damage per level of the god’s Size.
The creature has no compulsion to obey or even respect the participants. The primary ritualist himself receives the 8-again quality on any Social rolls on the god.
Only the vehicle for the god’s birth needs know this ritual. Participants, however, must each have at least one dot of Crúac.

>>50633009
Oh, I didn't even notice. I just saw Werewolf. Who the hell plays Apocalypse anymore.

>>50633250
Losers.

>>50633250
People that like cooler settings

>>50633250
Good boys.

>>50633334
>>50633356

Forsaken's setting is far better than Apocalypse. Apocalypse is so 90s punk-environmentalist edgy it hurts inside.

>>50633545
Forsakens setting is really boring man, I'd rather be fighting pentex than being a spirit cop that has like 4 blocks on his beat.

>>50633606
>>50633545
Forsaken 1e is pretty dumb, but Forsaken 2e is great. You're not a spirit cop, you're a territorial predator

>>50633606
Spirit cop is misunderstanding it. To the extent you police your territory, it's because it's your territory; nothing happens without your say-so. You groom the flesh and the shadow for your own profit, while ripping out the throat of anything that steps out of line. There's a duty to it, but it's the duty any predator has to trim the fat, devour prey: you're fulfilling your role in a cosmic ecosystem to thin the herd.

>>50633690
Keep in mind that while the Uratha do trim the fat, they're less predators in that sense and more Hunters in a spiritual sense. They're not culling the weak, they're challenging the strong, testing their mettle against the strongest in the area whenever they can.

>>50633758
Except not really. There's no special rule that Siskur-Dah can only be called on the mighty, or that it must be a great test; indeed, any given hunt isn't necessarily a Siskur-Dah. Killing the smack dealer who moved onto your block and fucked with an old lady you like works. So does killing a kid he sells to to make an example of people who buy and spook them off.

Werewolves want to hunt and kill. There's a pride in that, and a certain integrity in embodying the natural order, but it's really fundamentally not about challenge.

>>50633811
It's almost as if the rules weren't the entirety of the game, and there was more to it than treating the mechanics as written as being the end-all be-all.
Also, the Siskur-Dah *is* the Hunt.
>The chart above sets out how long she can go without being on the Siskur-Dah. If she exceeds that time, she loses a point of Essence each day, and suffers a breaking point towards Flesh
Each Tribe has a Sacred Prey that they feel is most worthy because a Werewolf can no more feel fulfilled by doing the bare minimum of effort on the Hunt as you or I could feel fulfilled by eating nothing but flavourless rice for every meal. You don't *have* to choose a worthy challenge that poses a real threat to you, but Werewolves *want* to.

>>50633957
>Also, the Siskur-Dah *is* the Hunt.
Siskur-Dah is the Sacred Hunt. It's a formalized hunt that involves ritual and imparts certain special abilities on the hunters. There are non-Siskur Dah hunts.

Couple of questions about the Uratha and the Hunt.
1. Is it acceptable to capture an easily detained enemy so you can release them and hunt them later?
2. What restrictions are there on what a Uratha can hunt? Could some Pure shitbag just hunt Mages even when his normal schtick is Forsaken who've wandered into his land?
3. Would it be feasible for the aforementioned Pure to have captured 3 relatively moralistic Mages (without an Order) who refused to fight and kill his wolf-blooded servants/slaves, so that he could hunt them down later? So the PCs can help them escape.
4. Is there a table or something on how frequently Uratha must hunt? I'm guessing that if your favorite prey aren't available when the need arises, you'll go for anything that'll give you a challenge.

>>50631936
Alright, Email me the book, and i'l email you back Mage 2E

Are there any Death Legacies which aren't either left-hand, or close to?

Bar the Tamers of the Cave.
I mean, they're neat and all, but I'd rather not play a character who gets off on the thought of sacrificing his very soul for another being.

>>50634056
1) yes but you arent getting renown for that.
2) No restictions.
3) Weird plot but sure.
4)yes on the primal urge table. It also has when a werewolf can only eat fresh kill.

So I read somewhere a thread or two back that the whole thread got banned or at least Aspel did, any info on what happened?

>>50634382

He derailed the tread to talk about politics got ban for like a day and now is bussiness as usual for thing.

>>50634447
Any idea which thread it was? I'd love to see what bullshit came up.

>>50634499
Everything I posted was purged for off-topic, including the thread I'd made two days earlier.

>>50634274
There's one about summoning the souls of the dead to imbue your equipment, but honestly it's a little lame. Stygian Heralds, I think? There aren't many good Death Legacies.

I have a question regarding Cruac, specifically 1e Cruac. I don't care for how it itself works, I mostly get that, but where do I find the stats for the Cruac 5 gargoyles from the Child from the Stones ritual? Or do we, like, write them out on our own? Or what?

>>50634056
>Could some Pure shitbag just hunt Mages

Sure, if he wants to ensure his slow and painful death.

He might even be able to hunt a few young and weak mages before the rest of the mages in the area, Pentacle, Seer and everyone else. quickly learn about the threat. At that point, the hunter will become the hunted.

>>50634705
Or they could be witches and not MTAw brand Mages, not like everything has to be 100% accurately represented.

>>50634056
>1. Is it acceptable to capture an easily detained enemy so you can release them and hunt them later?
That's not really sporting, and it wouldn't impress anyone. But the universe won't stop you.

>2. What restrictions are there on what a Uratha can hunt? Could some Pure shitbag just hunt Mages even when his normal schtick is Forsaken who've wandered into his land?

Anything they're capable of taking down. And things they can't take down. There are no restrictions.

>3. Would it be feasible for the aforementioned Pure to have captured 3 relatively moralistic Mages (without an Order) who refused to fight and kill his wolf-blooded servants/slaves, so that he could hunt them down later? So the PCs can help them escape.

Young Mages, sure. Once a Mage gets some experience under their belt they're broken and overpowered and curbstomp werewolves.

>4. Is there a table or something on how frequently Uratha must hunt? I'm guessing that if your favorite prey aren't available when the need arises, you'll go for anything that'll give you a challenge.

Yes. Primal Urge chart.

>>50634974
>not MTAw brand Mages, not like everything has to be 100% accurately represented.

That's just crazy talk.

>>50633104
That sounds a lot like a promethean.

>>50635756
Could be, yeah!

I was actually thinking how interesting it would be to essentially play a vampmethean

>>50635756
Wouldn't be the first time a vampire had made a promothean, desu. They list what 'non-standard' prommies could be like if they're made by the 3 big splats in... I think Saturnite nights?

>>50635805
That was an actual option in 1e.
There was an example of a vampire-made promethean that had to sleep in the soil he was created in to restore pyros and shit.

>>50635836
I know. He had Vitae as his Humour.
I think there's also some implications that Count Fucking Dracula is actually the original Count's Promethean.

What would be the best way to run a game based off Twin Peaks?

>>50635959
Mortals.

>>50636164
Read again. The claim wasn't "no Renown for not killing". It was "no Renown for capturing something easily captured and letting it go to catch again".

I'm interested in getting into the system after playing VTM:Bloodlines.
What material should I look at?
Anyone running a game?

>>50636560
Vampire the Masquerade 20th Anniversery Edition and anything else made for vampire post 2010.

>>50636560
>What material should I look at?
Vampire: The Requiem second Edition
Anyone who tells you otherwise is a demon trying to trick you.

>>50636560
>>50636861

As both a Demon trying to trick you and a guy who's run both, why did you like Bloodlines? Because that answer makes a difference between Requiem and v20 being the better version for you.

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I feel like this pic could be a thread starter.

>>50637328
I liked the power struggle, learning about vampires and the characters.

Being a chess piece and learning the being played while being used, throwing a wrench in the machine once I've decided my side.

Someone try and pitch beast to me

>>50637618
Man you gonna have ah ard time finding anyone that wants to fucking sell that game to you/

>>50637618
http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Vampions
Does this sound fun?

>>50637652
If I weren't loading up Dark Souls, I'd give it more effort.

>>50637658
>http://whitewolf.wikia.com/wiki/Vampions
>Does this sound fun?

Vampions is a thousand times more fun than beast.

>>50637658
So Beast has you playing as autistic superheroes?

>>50637537

Go with V20 then.

>>50637537
V20 is probably what you're looking for, although if you don't find that to your taste you can check out Requiem's Invictus covenant.

What type of spells can being naked be used as a Yantra?

I assume having sex with a virgin constitutes as multiple yantras right? Virginity is a sacrement I assume and weather it is consensual or not also a yantra.

>>50638177
...
>Virginity is a sacrement I assume and weather it is consensual or not also a yantra.
what the fuck

>>50638244
Yeah its creepy but for sure these things are symbols that some perverted mage can ise to fuel rituals

>>50638244
A sacrament is basically a thing you destroy to cast a spell. Like snapping a wafer or burning an offering. Virginity as a concept is almost completely nonsensical, but it's still fitting as a Yantra.

>>50638177
I could think of spells where being naked would be a yantra. Any sexual yantra would usually require being naked, but also some survivalist spells, or transformations. I wish Yantra were more like foci in the Dresden Files, where Harry will often take a cold shower and sit in a silver/gold/iron ring and do spells with intricately prepared ritual spaces.

Mage's Yantras are a good system, but they're nowhere near as necessary or meaningful as I'd like, especially since they only give dice bonuses.

>>50638315
Rory how the fuck is virginity a nonsensical concept, it's fucking simple as shit and basically a yes/no thing.

Also weather you cum inside or pull out is also a Yantra

Is mayonaisse a yantra

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>>50638177
>>50638264
>>50638350
Magical Realm anon, don't forget your dildo for that phallic symbolism.

Can a mantra be a yantra? what about tantra?

>>50638345
i think that they meant that virginity is not a medical idea but a cultural one, but as a cultural concept it works well in a mage setting

>>50638345
How'd you know it was me? Also, no it's not, aside from being really strict about it and treating it as "no sexual contact at all". Historically they've checked the hymen, but that can tear all the time, or it can stay in tact after sex. Then there's masturbation. Is someone a virgin if they've masturbated? What if they masturbated with penetration? And of course usually people only talk about women when they talk of virginity. Is a man a virgin if he's only gotten head? What about a handjob? I mean, look at the main character in Hocus Pocus. I'm pretty sure that loser had been on a few dates with Rosie Palms and her five daughters when he lit the black flame candle.*
And we could ask the vagina questions, but for being fucked in the ass. If a woman has been fucked in the ass is she still a virgin? Do "technical" virgins still have symbolic value? Does a promiscuous girl who's never had a cock in her pussy still count as a virgin for a Sacrament Yantra?

The answer to that question and >>50638392 are both "yes", because the Yantra system is incredibly flexible and the entire point of it is whether or not it aids the caster in creating the Imago. It's a mnemonic device meant to mentally unload some of the effort of crafting a symbolically resonant mental image of what the spell means to accomplish and by what means it accomplishes it.

>>50638440
I believe the phrase that gets boxers in a bundle is "social construct".

>>50638435
Mantra already is a yantra, actually. Tantras would be grimoires.

>>50638524
You're the only one that ever mentions Dresden files, dood.

>>50637736
more like you play autistic torturemurders who loudly yell at people that they are superheroes until people get tired of telling them they're just assholes

>>50638524
Virginity just means if youve had dick in your pussy or if you got you dixk in pussy.

>>50638591
>All lesbians are virgins

>>50638524
You do know that its very base definition virginity is divorced from promiscuity or sexual morality. The term virgin is used by scientists to describe animals who havent engaged in mating.

>>50638626
Yes they are. You seem to be mixing cultural and sociatal mores with the defenition.

>>50638626
Virgin =! Sexual activity.

That is why the concept of hymen restoration is ridiculous because she still had a dick in there before.

Time to leave wodgen again. Someone call me back when there's been another purge.

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>>50638637
>The term virgin is used by scientists to describe animals who havent engaged in mating.

even a cursory google search shows thats total bullshit
http://physiciansforhumanrights.org/library/other/virginity-and-hymen-testing-no-factual-scientific-or-medical-basis.html?referrer=https://www.google.com/

>>50638553
Lies. There are plenty of people who like Dresden Files. It's great.

>>50638647
>>50638591
>>50638637
>Virginity is the state of a person who has never engaged in sexual intercourse.

Though apparently it is sometimes used to describe an animal that's kept from sexual intercourse. Still, that's hardly what the original term meant (which was actually just a woman simply inexperienced), and hardly the popular usage of it.

The Wikipedia article on Virginity has a rather long section on conventions of "losing" it for a reason.

>>50638667
No, the concept is ridiculous because it's just going to get torn again anyway.

>>50638705
Nah. Miller-Keane Encyclopedia and Dictionary of Medicine, Nursing, and Allied Health, Seventh Edition says
>2. a laboratory animal that has been kept free from sexual intercourse.
so he's *sort of* right.

>>50638716
Hey man I love the series too, but you're the only one here that talks about it.

>>50638716
fine but i still say that saying 'virgin' is a scientific term without qualification is a misrepresentation of the facts

>>50638745
Maybe people should change that.
When's Peace Talks coming out anyway? Has there been a preview yet or did Butcher abandon his baby in favour of steampunk?

>>50638756
Oh, definitely.

>>50634705
>if he wants to ensure his slow and painful death
They're orderless, and the local Consilium usually wouldn't give them the time of day (turbulent politics), but they know the location of something they want.

>Roman Vampires in Rome herself
>Roman Werewolves in Germania and Gaul
>Roman Mummies in Aegyptus

Where would you put Roman settings for the other gamelines? Holy fuck I love Rome.

>>50638705
Why do you keep on bringing up the hymen when I never really mention it. I agree that using the hymen as a sign of viriginity is useless. Virginity is really jist a descriptor for An animal who hasnt engaged in the procreative act of putting a penis in a vagina.

>>50638781
No idea dood, but the steampunk book probably didn't help it get out faster. Honestly I should give his steampunk thing a read, didn't get that far in it.

>>50638912
Hey Atma, what happens when a mummy completes it's orignal task, I know that when they complete an assigned one they start to rappidly lose sekhem.

>>50639097

They start automatically dropping in Sekhem (instead of rolling for it) at each time interval until they hit 0 and return to death-sleep.

>>50638524
>And of course usually people only talk about women when they talk of virginity.
Are you kidding me? Male virgins get talked about all the time; it's just considered a source of shame instead of pride.

https://twitter.com/TheOnyxPath/status/807666774552547328

>>50639878
It gets talked about, but less. And certainly not in the same way as female virginity, which is seen as a magical sacred thing. Male virginity as a "thing" is a pretty recent concept.

>>50640018
>Most of those sound like names for a barbarian
Next time I play a fantasy game my character will be ChronDar the Barbarian.

But seriously ChroD is stupid. CoD is acceptable, but causes confusion.

>>50640071
Which is why they went with "CofD", anon.

>>50640071
CHRONDAR SMASH!!

>>50640071
>>50641114
What's confusing about CoD? It's much better than CofD, because it follows same pattern as WoD. It's same as if you wanted to use WofD.

>>50641858
Call of Duty.

>>50638781
>When's Peace Talks coming out anyway?

around the same time we get a new supplement for Werewolf.

So what does a demon gain by Going Loud if they don't have particularly offensive Embeds?

>>50642225
Don't they get access to all their Incarnation embeds and all exploits when going loud? Plus Primum set to 10 and healing all lethal and bashing.

>>50642291
So you're saying with Hellfire (normally unavailable) I can easily deal ~13+ agg to just about anything for an entire scene with just a pistol?

>>50642494
If I didn't miss anything then yes. Although ST can still easily challenge players as Demons are notoriously bad at attacking beings in Twilight.

>>50642647
Angels generally have to Manifest to be a problem though, right? So shooting a flaming rail spike through their brain seems like an efficient solution.

>>50638912
Mage practically anywhere; Britain during the decline, Greece during the conquest, Rome itself during the Pax Romanum.
Geist during the wars in the East.

>>50640018
Fuck ooooofff, I'm call it CoD for all time now, Coughed sounds s t u p i d

>>50644381

My favorite CoD splat is Black Ops.

>>50644506
Yeah, I like VALKYRIE too.

>>50644506
CoD:Blops is a pretty good splat, but I prefer World at War

>>50644506
>>50644637
>>50644650
And this is why we have CofD

>>50644669
Yea becauase a lil jape is so bad :^)

What is the goal of the Anarchs?

>>50644783
To be the most appealing option for players between faggot Camarilla and monsterous stupid Sabbat, but have the fault of being hypocrits.

>>50644783
It's pretty simple:
1) Fuck the man, man.
I'm pretty sure they haven't come up with what follows yet.

>>50644823
>faggot Camarilla
Says the anarch whose only defense against the Sabbat hordes is Camarilla power.

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>>50644783
>>50644844
>>50644823
>VtM

I humbly submit that this song is one of the best ways to get across the feel of the Followers of Set from an outside perspective: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RrxePKps87k

>>50644844
Man how cares about the fucking Sabbat, their to bust fucking up Quebec and Mexico. We gotta worry about those FUCKING CATHYIANS taking our Calfree

>>50644834
That's the newer generations' way of looking at it. There are elder Anarchs, though, and their view is "We really need a societal reform, because the way things are now is pretty shitty."

>>50644910
And they founded the Sabbat, which is monstrous and oppressive in ways the Camarilla could never be.

As someone who only started playing at 2E, I'm not sure what Secrets of the Covenants messed up with the Carthians that was apparently good in 1E. Can someone talk about what they had going in 1E that made them more appealing?

>>50644910
You're right, the Sabbat and Camarilla are both awful. That's why we got VtR.

>>50645859
>That's why we got VtR.
It truly is our divine punishment.

>>50645859
Ah yes, the game with just as many appealing factions.

>>50631936

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BwuSfRCk45kzLXRDVTdnendvaGs/view?usp=drive_web

>>50640018
>ChronoDahrk

>>50641858
Call of Duty has had dibs on that abbreviation for years.

>>50645035
It's because they sound like edgy punks and FILTHY SJWS, or at least that's what the other anons are making it look like.

>>50647139
my group calls it The Chronic

>>50647399
Care to elaborate why it would seem that way?

>>50647158
So had Committee of the Dee, Contracting Officer's Final Decision and Cost of Financial Distress. Plus the fact that WoD is hardly unique abbreviation either.

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>>50647631

>>50647399
>sound like edgy punks
It's true though. Just read the first few pages of the preview. Even if I don't really care about the fluff it was still pretty bad.

>>50648086
Honestly from what I read, only the first like one or two pages hit super hard on the edge, the rest of whats said about cairo is alright and the stuff on vietnam is okay.

>>50648199
It certainly didn't encourage me to read more fluff. I generally prefer very vague explanations, since it allows me to run the Invictus as the fancy vampire mafia, the Crone as Sabbat light and the Carthians as French revolutionaries completely out of their element without anyone complaining.

>>50647399
>>50645035
>>50647541
>>50648086
>>50648199
>>50648341
It's almost as if they're the Covenant that's all about change and disruption of the status quo in favour of radically different systems. Carthians are and always have been the CofD version of the Anarchs. They've always been revolutionaries and firebrands with little formal leadership because they're tried and true Anarchists, waving the black and red flag and only deferring to the authority of the bootmaker in the matter of boots. Only, you know, with a vampire bent.

They're also essentially the Council of Free Assemblies as blood drinkers. Hell, they even have Democracy Magic.

>>50648341
The fluff even mentions that The French Revolutionaries weren't the basis for the Carthian Movement, it was some.. Tanmant council in new york or something? I'm not sure, I don't have the pdf nearby.

>>50648566
Really? That's a shame. I really liked the image of young vampires dragging elders to the midnight guillotines.

>>50648452
Democracy magic that works like Consensual reality from MTA. Looking at the, "Magic can't work" merit in SotC

>>50648599
I should clarifiy that the French Revolutinary vampires DID make the claim to it, but the author of the piece say otherwise due to a one year diffrence. Obviously we should take this at a level of 'unreliable narrator.' since, you know, French Revolutionaries are a cooler idea.

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>>50648452
Why is it always Anarchists? You never see Syndicalist vampires, or Populist vampires. Do all non-monarchist vampires arbitrarily hate all structure?

Potential first time ST here, about to run a V20 chronicle since my tabletop buddies are all edgelords who like vampires and vampire lore. Are there any other specific books I should get? I assume if I want to put in enemies from other games (garou, hunters, etc.) I should get their books?

>>50645859
>Implying Invictus isn't the Camarilla
>Implying Carthians aren't Anarchs
>Implying the Lancea et Sanctum and Circle of the Crone don't combine to be the Sabbat
>Ordo Dracul are also pretty Sabbat-y

>>50648452

>They're also essentially the Council of Free Assemblies as blood drinkers.

Free Council actually gets to do and be more in 2e, though. Also they can't be the Council because the council actually cares about people and that's a core part of their tenant. Carthians only care about people as far as using their governmental methods to rule over them like cattle.

What would happen if I sent a vampire into the shadow/twilight?

>>50648879
They'd be kinda fucked, honestly, or they'd need some really specific powers.

>>50648879
in the Shadow they're fucked, nothing escape's Helios

Twilight is easier, because there's loads of ways out of that

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>>50648600
Which one? Sorcerous Eunuch? I shudder to think what kind of blasphemous ritual would result in making someone some kind of null zone for supernatural effects.

>>50648679
Technically speaking, Anarcho-Syndicalist or Libertarian Socialist would be more accurate terms. You could also probably straight up call them Communist. Political anarchism is not actually about anarchy in the popular sense, it's just that the burden of proof to justify authority is on those who are in positions of authority. The quote I referenced about bootmakers is relevant
>Does it follow that I reject all authority? Perish the thought. In the matter of boots, I defer to the authority of the bootmaker; concerning houses, canals, or railroads, I consult the architect or the engineer. For such special knowledge I apply to such a "savant." But I allow neither the bootmaker nor the architect nor the "savant" to impose his authority on me.
That's essentially what the Carthians are all about. Fuck the elders.

>>50648630
>>50648599
>>50648566
I haven't read through most of Secrets yet, but the original write up has them based on a pre-Revolutionary pseudonym of an Apostate Acolyte. You'd have thought they'd be more directly related to the Invictus, though.

Also, I know I'm super critical of Bloodlines, but I unabashedly love this pandering piece of art.

>>50648810
The Free Council is still the Democratic Socialist group. Also, Carthians don't care about people because they aren't people.

>>50648879
>>50648896
>>50648943
Book of Shadows actually talks about this. There are places in the Shadow where the sun never sets. There's also Blood Tenebrous, a cool Discipline related to Twilight and the Shadow and spirity stuff.

>>50648970
Coda Against Sorcery (• to •••••)

Prerequisites: Carthian Status •

The largely secular Carthian Movement maintains this ancient practice as a defense against sorcery. Precedent for this Law goes back as far as the Code of Ur-Nammu, over four thousand years ago. In essence, it constructs a set of rules for the way sorcery works or doesn’t work, and shuts down anything violating those rules. The Carthian sets a sort of “rules of engagement” for the mystical, and the word of law enforces them.

Effect: When adopting the Coda Against Sorcery, the character signifies whether the Coda applies to all sorceries, a specific variety of blood sorcery, or a single defined ritual. This requires the character to have seen the power in effect, or at least be versed in the basic way it works. Note that this does apply to non-Kindred magics if the character wishes. Changing the definitions requires the character abandon his current Coda under the Sanctity of Merits rule (see Vampire: The Requiem, p. 109) and purchasing a new instance of the Merit.

Characters using a defined sorcery against the character suffer his Merit dots as a penalty on any roll to activate or wield said sorcery against him. If Defense applies against the sorcery, add his Merit dots to his Defense against attacks made with weaponized sorceries.

>>50649050
God aren't most of these magical laws and oaths stupid. They should simply be useful social merits, not pseudo-blood magic.

>>50649082
Are you being intentionally stupid or something? They have social merits. They also have Blood Magic.

>>50649050
That's kind of awesome. Carthian Law is an interesting concept, albeit I'm not sure exactly how it works. Does Secrets explain it better?

>>50649210
That's why I said "most". The Invictus and the Carthians shouldn't have blood magic at all.

>>50649082
Yep, laws weren't that great in 1e, they aren't great now.

>>50649210
Carthian Law is explained in the 1e Carthian Covenant book.

What's the origin of Carthian laws? How do they work?

>>50649269
I disagree. I mean, I'll admit the Carthian one is weird, but the Invictus? They literally have sign in blood magic.

>>50649304
I don't want to download and read through a 1e book, gimme the skinny and why Democracy Blood Magic works

>>50649050
I'm pretty sure that's more powerful than Mage "set rules for use of magic" stuff. That's kind of ludicrous.

>>50645948
It has the Ordo Dracul so it has more(any) likable than vtm

>>50627207
Explain please, I genuinely want to know what you mean, because I wanna run VTR 2nd Ed and have a bit of trouble with Carthians

>>50649346
Fuck, give me a minute to read the whole thing. I know that Carthian law works whether the person breaking the law knows it, and all that matters is if a Carthian see's them breaking the law, even if they don't know how/if that person is breaking the law.

>>50648690
>Potential first time ST here, about to run a V20 chronicle since my tabletop buddies are all edgelords who like vampires and vampire lore. Are there any other specific books I should get? I assume if I want to put in enemies from other games (garou, hunters, etc.) I should get their books?

No really, vampire 20 has a section with other supernatural splats designed with V20 rules.

>>50648801
>>Implying the Lancea et Sanctum and Circle of the Crone don't combine to be the Sabbat
>>Ordo Dracul are also pretty Sabbat-y

Lance sanctum -> Path of night.
Circle of the Crone -> Path of beast
Ordo -> Path of metamorphosis (with a less overt bent)

So, when are we getting the newly updated Mage rules in the pastebin?

I've already ordered a physical copy because muh bookshelf, but I don't want to pay extra for a fucking pdf I can get off of my friendly local mongolian finger puppet board for free

>>50650295
This kind anon linked it earlier
>>50646443

>>50646443
>>50650475

Thanks, you're the heroes I needed.

>>50649346
Okay as you'd expect from a CoD 1e book, they give a few suggestions on why and how the LAw can work. It more or less goes down to, A higher power is supporting the CArthians and giving power to the law, Vampires grow stronger with numbers and their will can be enoforced on people without consent and finally that vampires make some kind of weird connection with a City Father/Mother that empowers vampires to rule/make laws over their own kind because they don't really have the numbers to enforce law properlly like humans do.

>>50645859
I'm fine. It still has the invictus (read Camarilla) so I am happy.

I prefer it when the Carthians are depicted as being all separate but with one thing in mind. Disrupting the status qou as someone mentioned. This does not have to be left leaning politics however. The Vampire 4th Reich is as just as much a part of the Carthien Movement as the Project Mayham style anarchists. Or it could be a bunch of moderates who are sick of the centuries old monopoly that the other factions have. Type casting them as Anarchs 2.0 does them no favours.

>>50651761

I feel like the real root of the Carthians is that there is no style of government that they're not willing to try, as long as it keeps the Usual Vampire Politics out of comission. They are very, very loud about it, and each Carthian faction in a city probably has at least two mini-factions.

Can a mage attack something in the normal world from twilight with magic?

>>50651952

Probably only by adding the appropriate arcanum to the spell (Spirit, Death, etc.) and being able to perceive the creature, of course, and you'd add the Gauntlet as a withstand rating.

>>50651980
The Gauntlet? Fuck no, that keeps back the Shadow.
Twilight is just a different frequencty of this world.

That being said, I don't remember where, or if it's said what power a Spirit can use upon people from within Twilight.

>>50651952
If they have Spirit/Death 3(enough to cast Ghost Gate/the unnamed spirit equivalent), I'd say yes, but it'd cost a Reach.
Could also optionally use it with either of those at 2, but Ruling doesn't seem as appropriate as Weaving, imo

>>50652060
After posting this, I realize that technically Death 2's Touch of the Grave does the same thing in reverse, so Death/Spirit 2 would work fine.

So I want to play Link related as an Invictus Knight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rml5ehAl7SM
What clan would he be? I was thinking Gangrel.

>>50652060
>>50652081
That seems hilariously overpowered.

>>50652173
In what way?

>>50652254
I'm guessing he means because you could do that to hurt someone with a significantly lowered risk of retaliation.
The balancing factor is, of course, that you're gonna take some paradox risk for the sleeper witness(assuming you attack a sleeper).
If they aren't a sleeper, they've either got a method of defending themselves(Werewolves/Geists, Thyrsus and Moros Mages) or they're (probably) hardy enough to survive the hit.

>>50652293
And even if they can't defend against it, you're likely either assaulting someone without provocation, or you're continuing a fight in a one-sided manner when you've already displayed your ability to escape without further harm to any party.

It also means you can no longer interact with the physical world.

So it has its side effects.

>>50652488
And you need to somehow get into twilight.

What's the consensus on Dark Eras? Just got it in the mail and I really, really love the 50s New Zealand one, thinking of running my next campaign in it. I also love the Berlin and Constantinople ones

>>50652774
>50s New Zealand
What? Fucking how? What the hell does New Zealand have?

>>50652780
A shitty ghost maelstrom or some shit, it's for geist.

>>50652293
>>50652488
>>50652550
I actually did fight someone using Touch of the Grave once. I snuck into a house through Twilight Gate and fired a shot at a vampire before he could do some evil shit with a captive. Unfortunately Touch of the Grave means *they* can touch *you* as well, and this vampire had heightened senses. He listened for where I was and attacked me that way. Still, I had the upper hand. I actually forget what happened, but I know I got out of there with the girl.

>>50652780
Sin-eaters.

>>50652774
Really? I found New Zealand boring.

>>50652550
Death/Spirit 3-4 not too hard to pull off.

My view on all things magic is the question isn't "can you?" it's "should you?".

Sleeper paranormal investigators? Hell no. Hubris aside there's easier ways.

Vampires that are endangering a verge with reckless feeding? Safeties off, especially if you're an arrow.

>>50652774

In general, it's pretty good! Nothing out right bad, just some settings that are just OK or maybe a little unimaginatively executed. Don't let the others get you down, I like the New Zealand one too, it's an off beat, well presented time by someone who knows the area and era to a decent extent. The Skinwalkers/Demon crossover era was my favorite.

>>50652875
>Really? I found New Zealand boring.
Even people from New Zealand find New Zealand boring.

>>50648566

Very unreliable.

This is the equivalent of arguing over whether the Ramones or the Sex Pistols started punk rock. It's irrelevant. The New York Movement likes to claim they started it. But nobody outside New York really cares.

>>50653170
Isn't that the same arguement they use in the book?

>>50653170
Well they take their name from Emmaneul Baptiste Carth, so I'm going to go with that.

>>50653036
You say that, but getting to spirit 4 takes 14 exp.

>>50653213
Yeah, and in doing so you get Gnosis 3.
Which is fucking baller, and when Mages start getting extremely powerful.

>>50653260
Mages are always powerful. Gnosis 3+ is when they start becoming worrisome for other supernaturals.

>>50648810
>Free Council actually ... cares about people and that's a core part of their tenant

TFW a poor, deluded mage thinks Sleepers are people.

>Carthians only care about people as far as using their governmental methods to rule over them like cattle.

As has been explained by multiple WW developers, Carthians don't consider humans to be their fellow proletariat, rather they are the (tasty) means of production.

>Coda Against Sorcery (• to •••••)

Applies to all sorceries, even non-Kindred blood magic. WTF?

How would this even work against Awakened magic? Does "sorcery against the character" mean only direct attacks against the character or does it include even indirect effects of any magic that could negatively affect the character. If a mage set the vampire's haven on fire or blooded it with sunlight, rather than a fireball to his undead face, would the merit protect him?

"Coda Against Sorcery" should be jettisoned the same way the abomination "You Are Meat" was excised from Beast.

>>50653421
It only works on other forms of magic if the PLAYER wants, which seems like a stupid thing to put into a players hands.

>>50653438
Not that anon, but that means the player can just wave off any if he wants, in what, a certain radius? All of Carthian territory?

>>50653454
Well it seems like it only effects magics against the character, though if you take Laws as they where in 1e and used it like this... Well, you could effectively make a whole city a magical dead zone.

That would be super useful in a city where the Carthians are hard line Atheists.

>>50653508
I still find it hilarious that Carthians can be Atheist but dislike blood sorcery. Couldn't you justify it as a natural power of the blood and just divorce the religion from it?

>>50653421

Wouldn't Coda Against Sorcery light up every mage's peripheral mage sight like the Fourth of July?

Once the Consilium,Assembly, Ministries, etc determined the cause, i.e. vampires, something that should be fairly easy for mages, particularly if attempting to do so from outside the Carthian city, wouldn't every mage adept and master, individuals who would likely only be inconvenienced by the merit, basically declare war if not genocide against the undead, including supporting all other vampire covenants against the Carthians?

>>50653611
Peripheral Mage Sight triggers in response to active effects, from the sound of it, that's a passive effect.

It'd likely get muffled by the sound of whatever other "sorcery" effect is being utilised.

Plus it only applies to an individual, as a protection against individuals using Magic against them. Not exactly something the Mage community is going to entirely flip their shit about and go full retard trying to remove.

It isn't a city-wide anti-magic field.

>>50653649
>It isn't a city-wide anti-magic field.

Aren't the whole point of Carthian Laws that they affect the entire city?

I would also argue that it is indeed an active effect, particularly since it can be turned-off at will.

>>50653611
And start a shitfight that big?
I've always imagined that those who know of Kindred don't just kill them because even though the vampire is clearly on the bottom of the supernatural food chain, many of them are also very old, and cast very large webs, and if you k ow enough about Vamps to fight them like that, you'd know that their big strength is luring you so deep into the spider's web you get tripped up, and then they feast.
Like, yeah sure you could probably take the Carthians, but who's to say other covenants don't lock step in with them simply because "outside threat"? The Invictus sourcebook pretty well states that the Invictus is pretty damn good at 1) making sure this scenario is avoided, and 2) has all kinds of insane kill levers put in place many years ago and maintained just for this very occasion, making interlopers suffer dearly.

>>50653686
Never got that impression from reading the text of the Merit.
>characters using a defined sorcery against the character

>>50653686
Carthian Law in 1e affects the whole of the city, in 2e... I dunno, never seemed to clear.

File: ultra magnus - can we move on please.gif (361KB, 350x210px) Image search: [Google]

361KB, 350x210px

>>50653611
Because the game doesn't assume crossover as a default? Geez, fucking mage supremacy.

>>50653790
Not that anon, but maybe it DOES cover the city, but only goes into effect against the caster specifically

>>50653718
>Invictus making sure this scenario is avoided

Wouldn't that include trying to stop another group of vampires from potentially pissing off all the mages in an entire city?

>>50653819
Well here's the thing, in 1e Carthian laws affected Vampires and ONLY vampires, unless they used very specific wording to make it affect ghouls.With that Carthian law would effect anyone and everyone in a CArthian ruled city, no matter their knowledge of a law as long as a Carthian saw someone commit the crime (Even if the Carthian didn't know how or if a person broke the law)

Carthian Laws seem to be more potent but also more restercted in scale. But I'd have to go give Carthian 2e laws a second look honestly.

>>50653827
Well I mean, if one or two Carthians suddenly wind up face down in an open dumpster because they accidentally fell on railroad spikes, and that alley with said open dumpster just happened to get early morning sunlight and those clearly dumpster diving morons got themselves killed, weeeeeelllllll

>>50653421
>How would this even work against Awakened magic?
Stop breaking the law, asshole.
The law in this case being whatever the Carthian decides.
"Shut down powers" isn't exactly uncommon. Prometheans have one, too. Hell, it's not even that good of one; Sorcerous Eunuch is better and cheaper. I mean, if you're willing to go through the torture.

>>50653438
>>50653454
>>50653508
>>50653558
>>50653611
>>50653686
>>50653718
>>50653819
>Coda Against Sorcery (• to •••••)
>Prerequisites: Carthian Status •
>The largely secular Carthian Movement maintains this ancient practice as a defense against sorcery. Precedent for this Law goes back as far as the Code of Ur-Nammu, over four thousand years ago. In essence, it constructs a set of rules for the way sorcery works or doesn’t work, and shuts down anything violating those rules. The Carthian sets a sort of “rules of engagement” for the mystical, and the word of law enforces them.
>When adopting the Coda Against Sorcery, the character signifies whether the Coda applies to all sorceries, a specific variety of blood sorcery, or a single defined ritual. This requires the character to have seen the power in effect, or at least be versed in the basic way it works. Note that this does apply to non-Kindred magics if the character wishes. Changing the definitions requires the character abandon his current Coda under the Sanctity of Merits rule (see Vampire: The Requiem, p. 109) and purchasing a new instance of the Merit.
>Characters using a defined sorcery against the character suffer his Merit dots as a penalty on any roll to activate or wield said sorcery against him. If Defense applies against the sorcery, add his Merit dots to his Defense against attacks made with weaponized sorceries.

Also, Peripheral Mage Sight triggers on active effects. So just as it doesn't really trigger from the existence of vampires, it wouldn't trigger from this.

>>50653813
>Because the game doesn't assume crossover as a default?

You do realize that this whole discussion started because the explicit text of Coda Against Sorcery references how it applies to non-Kindred magic?

>>50653877
I don't know why I'd be (You)'d at a green text of what I fucking posted, despite it not saying anything about what I said.

>>50653877
So it does work on non Kindred magic if the player wants, but they actually have to know shit about Mages to cancel them out, which sounds hard in a practical sense.

>>50653898
What I mean is, an individual game doesn't DEFAULT to 'there are anything but <what we are playing> in the city'. I understand it references it for cross-over purposes, like all the shitty writing in 2e does, but the default mode of the game is not 'and I have to have the consilium written up for my vampire game' and shit like that.

>>50653910
Because in general talking about the power would be more useful if everyone actually knew what it does.

>>50653925
Not particularly. If you see someone blow a guy's head up like Scanners, you adopt a Coda that says "I don't get my head blown up like in Scanners".
Though presumably an ST wouldn't let you switch Codas between turns.

>>50653877
Sorcerous Eunuch (•)
Prerequisites: Resolve •••

Effect: Your character has been subject to a series of terrifying rituals and experiments, which affords him a near immunity to sorcery. Any dice pool for a magical effect targeting your character suffers his Resolve as a penalty. If you spend a Willpower point at the time of the effect, instead remove successes from the caster’s roll equal to his Resolve.

As result of this, he can never learn Theban Sorcery, Crúac, or any other blood sorceries.

This practice is often used on Lancea et Sanctum crusaders. Sometimes, this is used as a punishment on captured enemies. The ritual requires almost a month of captivity, and can be committed by any character with four or more dots in Theban Sorcery.

>>50653952
That's why I posted out that green-text in the first place?

>>50653952
That makes sense, I'd buy it for a dollar

>>50653974
>That's why I posted out that green-text in the first place?
Yes, but you quoted part of it, not the whole thing. Also, for what it's worth... >>50653421
>As has been explained by multiple WW developers, Carthians don't consider humans to be their fellow proletariat, rather they are the (tasty) means of production.
The quote (from the Carthian Merit preview) is this:
>There’s a difference between vampire revolutionaries who see humans as the proletariat, and vampire revolutionaries who see humans as the means of production.
>–Greg Stolze

I actually would have linked Sorcerous Eunuch myself, but I ran out of room. I actually had to cut out quoting you here
>"Coda Against Sorcery" should be jettisoned the same way the abomination "You Are Meat" was excised from Beast.
above me pointing out that power shut down powers aren't exactly unique or unusual.

>>50653877
>>Coda Against Sorcery (• to •••••)

Couldn't this be used to set laws against Strix and cripple them?

>>50649050
Is my post,so no I posted the whole thing.
>>50654068

>>50653974
>Sorcerous Eunuch (•)

If this *1 dot* merit actually applies to non-kindred blood magic, it is just as bad, if not worse, than Coda Against Sorcery.

Who the hell wrote these merits? Are there any other Beast draft-level merit abominations in Secrets of the Covenants? I'm afraid of what garbage we can now expect in A Thousand Years of Night.

>>50654122
Sure, if you know their powers well enough, which would be only a small amount of vampires and Khabits.

>>50654123
Didn't notice it was further up the thread.

>>50654144
>Just as bad
Anon, I don't think you understand what that means.
Just because you don't understand things doesn't make them bad.

>>50654068
>"You Are Meat" was excised from Beast.

>above me pointing out that power shut down powers aren't exactly unique or unusual

Again, You Are Meat was prudently eliminated from Beast.

So, what's the favored explanation for Generation in Masquerade, since it makes no sense? If vampires in prehistoric antiquity had already made it down to Fourth Generation, there should logically be far more than fifteen in the modern age.

>>50654399
Each waited hella long to breed. That's always what I told myself

>>50654458
they dont breed that often and it usually takes a ton of time. its fairly well supported by the books.

>>50654399
Vampire population is controlled. Hence why it's a law that siring requires permission. Also, it's talked about in fiction that at one point, certain generations couldn't embrace and their attempts just failed... and that eventually it thinned out further, which is why these are a sign of Gehenna, the 'curse of Caine weakening'.. IN the Dark Ages, a 13th Gen is considered a 'Thin Blood' but by the modern ages, that's fallen to 14th and 15th Gens.

>>50654458
>>50654492
Only the Camarilla seems to make a point of controlling the population, as far as I can tell. Am I wrong?

And, if given enough time, would the Fifteenth Generation be able to start siring childer?

>>50654564
The Camarilla is the primary, but the Sabbat generally don't make a big deal about it. They'll bring over people useful and such, but there's no hard written rules that I recall (Sabbat is my weakest part of vampire, I treat them more as the 'scary unknown antagonist' than anything, as I haven't ever delved hugely into their book(s) as they never appealed to me). It seems that Sabbat generally don't go around embracing down; they'll have low-gens Embraced as shovelheads, sure, but they're also in many instances Noddists and so, things that hasten Gehenna are (I would think) a bad thing to them.

And probably? I think there's a V20 book that talks about that.

>>50654564
They did.....some of those have heartbeats....

Also the sabbat make legions of shovelheads they use as expendable troops, so those never live long to count

>>50654564
I prefer to think about Gehena as a reocuring concept, so the Late Bronze Age collapse was the second to last time Gehena happened. And the second known Gehena was around our darkage.

The elders wake up and slay the younger generations. A reocuring war, with the surviving young ones draning older, and thus the clans and the circle starts over. Some of the old (5-9 gens) know this and that is why they kill any thinblood they get their hands on.

But this is just my headcannon, so ignore me and my shitty english.

>>50654697
I like this anon and his ideas

>>50654564
Reminder that all the factions in modern play weren't really around until the 1400s, so before that it was self-governed cities, clan alignments and the like. Plus vampires where more regulated on embrace when the human population was even smaller and travel was harder still.

>>50654722
Thanks :)

>>50654256
Was it?
Still, those powers exist. Prometheans have one. It's a really good one, too.
It doesn't even require you to understand the power, like the Carthian one, or give up your own power, like the Lance one.

How active are 'typical' Free Council cabals in 'normal' Counsila politics? Do they try to use the system to try and convert the local government to be more assembly-like or do they mostly stick to their own assemblies unless something big comes up.

>>50654980

Most Pentacle cabals are comprised of mixed Orders. There are few single order Pentacle cabals, and they are rare enough that single order Free Counsel cabals have their own name, Columns.

Someone make a new thread already.

>>50654621
I never like the idea of mass embracing. I always felt enthralled ghouls would make better shock troops.

>>50655732
mass embracies can have higher disciplines than ghouls. not to mention the much bigger blood pool, and thats before blood feasting or whatever.

>>50655732
Its a tradition, the first anarch revolt started becouse they did not want to be bloodbound anymore. Any sabbat worth his salt does not want to bind another being against their will (in theory but definetly not in practise)

>>50656052