Let's be honest here: Why do people say the Culture could

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>>50618789
Do you mean the imperium?
They keep the masses in check with brutal religion and hard work

If you spend all your time working on an assembly line and praying you won't have time for slaanesh

>>50618855

Nah man. The Culture. The mary-sue-topia I see brought up sometimes when it comes to comparing power-levels of various Sci-fi universes. Written by Iain Banks?

>>50618874
One thing I found disappointing about the Culture novels is there was never really any internal conflict. Occasionally the Minds would bicker with each other but the whole society was far too cohesive. I guess that's sort of the point, though.

>>50618789
>Why do people say the Culture could take on the 40k universe?

Usually by the 40k universe they mean the Imperium.

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>>50618998

If you've read the Culture series: How do you think the Culture would be able to handl the outside-context problem of encountering Chaos, specifically the potential for all of its citizens and especially its Minds being corrupted by Chaos? I know I've read in the lore somewhere that Chaos is extremely efficient at corrupting AIs and that this is one of the reasons (besides the Men of Iron thing) that there are no AIs at all in the Imperium.

>>50618874
No arguments from me here, every person in the Culture would either become Slaanesh or Nurgle worshipers, but what about the ships ?

The entire point of the Culture is that its people have little to no power, and every important decision is taken by their stupidly powerful ships, and considering how retard-level powerful they are, if they cannot be corrupted by Chaos, then the Culture wins.

>>50619035
The citizens don't actually matter. The Culture is basically an absolute oligarchy ruled secretly by ludicrously powerful Minds. The citizens only exist because the Minds are fond of them. It would really come down to how well Chaos can corrupt godlike AI.

>>50619035

Minds aren't AIs. Drones aren't even AIs. They are technobiological beings, much more brain than computer.

The only time you see AIs in The Culture are in basic things like Gel Suits and combat robots and pets.

Sure, a corrupted knife missile might be a threat, but only the first time. They would all be decommissioned as soon as the issue were identified.

>>50619285

By "AI" here I'm also referring to technological beings such as the Men of Iron in the 40k universe, yes. Sentient, conscious, capable of complex decision making on a human or above-human level, all that.

>>50619285

Don't the Mind's brains exist in some kind of extradimensional space outside the normal universe?

>>50618789
> Why is no attention ever paid to Chaos (especially Slaanesh) and how really fucking easily they could corrupt all the trillions of mindless hedonists that exist in the Culture? The amount of havoc Chaos would wreak on the Culture would be hard to even put into words.

Simply put, Slaneesh is kind of quaint by Culture standards.

The Chaos gods are very powerful, but they don't automatically possess and mindwipe everyone that has an emotion that aligns with a god. Otherwise, any Space Marine that took pride in their kill would instantly explode into a Bloodthirster and nothing would ever get done. The Chaos gods, for all their power, need to be invited in. Rituals need to be performed, the cult of Chaos needs to be introduced and spread, or be brought along with by people who are already worshippers.

This is really, really easy in 40k. Chaos can easy subvert local religions, or just offer power to people who live in abject poverty.

The Culture doesn't have any reason to give a shit about Slaneesh. She Who Thirsts doesn't have anything to offer them. Culture citizens are already effectively immortal, can get genofixed to have glands that produce drugs on command, usually switch sex once or twice in their lives to see how the other half lives, and generally have every need or desire they could imagine provided to them before they even ask for it by machines who run the whole show.

Who good is power? The humans don't need any more. They are only vaguely aware of the fact that they are technically involved in a war that spans the galaxy, because the Minds and automated ships take care of that for them.

Knowledge? Perfection? They can just ask a Mind to provide any information or product they need, and it will already be up to such an unrealistically high standard that a human literally wouldn't notice if it was any better.

[cont]

>>50619165
>>50619285

All cases are interesting :

> the Minds have a presence in the warp, and can be corrupted

after a few decades/centuries, Minds start to fall to Chaos, creating devastingly powerful chaos constructs, mostly affiliated to Tzeentch.
Imagine the neat, efficient and thoughtful GSVs converted into godlike monstrosties, with a warp presence so enormous that each one is worth billions of human followers and pretty much a minor god in itself.
They have warp powers in addition of their fuck-me-its-so-powerful technology.

Humanity is doomed, Eldars are doomed, Taus are doomed, after some time, tyranids get crushed, and eventually, Orkz are destroyed

> Minds can touch/interact with the Warp

some might fall to Chaos, and wreck more shit than any other army before them, but considering how paranoid Minds are in the books, I think they would quickly identify what the can or cannot do with the Warp while staying safe.
Eventually, they learn to use the warp better than anyone before them except the Old Ones, they build their own Mind-designed webway and from this they slowly try to un-fuck the galaxy.

> Minds have no presence in the Warp

pretty much the same as the second one, they are still incredibly powerful, and will work to make the galaxy more like the Culture, thay won't have warp travel, but without the threat of corruption and the possibility of engineering races who do have a presence in the warp, its only a matter of time before even Orkz become huge green philosophers and hippies

>>50619343

Sex, drugs and rock and roll? Already available to the Culture in spades, designed for perfection by intelligences that man cannot comprehend.

Anyone who really is into the chains and spikes subculture already has that going on anyway. Its not taboo.

In a very real way, the concept of 'excess' to the Culture is so totally beyond normal that the word has no meaning there. Nothing they do they really consider excessive, therefore Slaneesh has no foothold with them.

A Chaos cult on a Culture ship would be like 3-4 guys who no one takes seriously because they are hawking cheap shit instead of the premium stuff everyone can get for free. And the Minds would send a knife missile to kill them all 10 days before they decided to start planning an actual demon summoning, because the Mind predicted that they would become a threat to the ship and removed them before they became a problem.

It would be a total non-issue. If Chaos wants to do anything to the Culture, they will have to straight up invade it in force. Aw which point they are dealing with a level of technology that makes the Dark Age of Technology humanity look like fucking Radio Shack.

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>>50619343
>>50619416

You're definitely underestimating the mind/soul-fuckery aspect of Chaos here. Slaanesh is so much more than merely sex and drugs - the appeal of Slaanesh (and the other Chaos gods really) is to experience something far beyond that of anything normal life has to offer by forfeiting your very soul to a near-omnipotent God of lust, desire, fulfillment, vanity, pride, and so many more things.

Take for example the average cultist of Slaanesh. They're so fucking over-stimulated on raptuorous agony and sanity shattering pleasure that they seek in vain every moment of their lives for newer heights of sensory experience. Consider the Dark Eldar who deliberately torture themselves for hundreds of years under the careful guidance of the Homonuculi just to actually /feel/ anything because of how burnt out their souls are from literal thousands of years of experiecing both pleasures and pain literally beyond mortal comprehension.

These guys are not just sense-freaks. They're fucking Cenobites on steroids. That's what the average Slaanesh cultist is like, and that's what the average Culture member has in store for them - if they really desire it. And boy is Slaanesh good at convincing people that they really do desire it - after all, this is what happened AN ENTIRE FUCKING RACE comprising trillions of people ie the Eldar. And that's just Slaanesh we're talking about here.

>>50619399

Tzeentch would know better than to mess with the Minds.

The basis of all higher level technology in the Culture is something called the Grid. Basically, there are an uncountable number of dimensions in all directions, wrapped around each other like an onion. The barrier between these dimensions is a series of lines of energy called the Grid. Minds tap into the grid directly for raw energy, and manipulate it for FTL and all sorts of shit. For example, a weapon called Gridfire punches a tiny hole in the Grid to a neighboring dimension that is literally nothing but an effectively infinite amount of antimatter, and letting that spill over into our dimension annihilating fucking everything until the hole plugs itself.

The moment the Minds detect that an extra-dimensional force is dicking around with their citizens, they are going to shoot back. They have a lot of safeguards on their tech to prevent their grid-manipulating technology for causing irrepairable damage to this dimension. If they decide they don't care what happens tot he warp, they will just shoot the whole Immaterium full of holes until the Chaos gods don't exist anymore.

Just my two cents to everyone saying the culture would make it. The eldar pre fall were a society similar to the culture if you think about it. Their every desire was possible and soon that spiraled out of control throughout thousands of years. Eventually the culture would become like the eldar

>>50619470

Yeah, but what can Slaneesh offer to someone who can already experience the absolute maximum amount of physical pleasure that a human body can achieve just by thinking about it?

Everything Slaneesh can offer, the Culture already has available in some form or another for FREE. No soul trading, no self torture or nothing.

Life sucks for humans in 40k. Its easy to sell escapism and pleasure to the downtrodden in the grim dark future of only war.

But life in the culture is already fucking awesome. That, and they trust the machines for everything, so if the Minds tell the humans that Slaneesh's drugs are poison they will believe it implicitly.

For Slaneesh to have influence over people, they first have to give a shit about Slaneesh. And there isn't any reason for the Culture to do so.

>>50619542
The Minds would intervene to prevent things from going that far.

>>50619559
There's no reason for people to do a lot of incredibly self-destructive things in our own society, yet people do them. Sometimes simply *because* they're self-destructive, or because someone else *doesn't* want them to do the self-destructive things.

I think you are underestimating the concept of "corruption" here and forgetting that there is a literal malevolent god who wants to do the corrupting.

>>50619542

That implies that any kind of hedonism has no choice but to go Hellraiser, when despite being around for so long that the Culture doesn't even have records that Earth was ever a thing they are nothing like that.

That's like saying that Humans advance technologically faster and faster each generation, therefore the IoM doesn't exist because a they would already be up to, and past, their previous tech level during the height of their empire by now. Because there is only ever one 'allowed' outcome to a situation, 40k canon doesn't exist.

>>50619343
No idea how that culture thing works, but the general idea of Chaos and Slaanesh in particular is that it works outside the constraints of reality. The culture seems to still be limited by the logic of a completely physical world.

Effectively all the excess and hedonism of the physical world is like a heroin addiction: taking the heroin is not a problem. Being addicted to heroin is not a problem. Building a tolerance to heroin through prolonged use while addicted to it IS the problem. Suddenly you want something you can no longer have. Once the culture has gone the way of all eldar and got bored of their own hedonism they are going to crave the next best thing: an experience that is physically impossible. Enter Slaanesh.

Since chaos defies definition, it is inherently unknowable, it cannot be accounted for, it cannot be predicted. It's very existance (or lack of it) will drive any sophisticated logical engine into madness, as it now has more variables to account for that cannot exist yet still affect the outcome of everything. It would be caught in an eternal logic loop to find the perfect solution to an inherently imperfect system.

That's why the only effective defense against chaos in WH40k is pure, unquestioning, unyielding, uncompromising and utterly irrational faith.

>>50618789
>trillions of mindless hedonists

All puny humans/transhumans/xenos/meat-things with zero control over the Culture. They're pets.

The Culture is it's Minds, which are soulless AI and would be an anethaema to Chaos. Coupled with the fact that a single Very Fast Picket ship could take out every Chaos warship in existence without breaking a sweat, and yeah, the Culture would curbstomp the 40k universe.

>>50619542
not really no. You underestimate the Minds, as well as the freedom and lack of want.

To save everyone some time - this fanfic - https://archiveofourown.org/works/649448/chapters/1181375 - 157 chapters - and the associated threads linked in the introdictipn (~300 more pages) sort of cover this.

There are some assumptions about how chaos works, and how gridfire and the like works. You have to combine these rules for the question to even make sense. Either way the minds are ok.

Even assuming total-corrupting powers of chaos, minds have build-in self-repair and hard-trigger dead mans switches against spooky changes. Minds will notice and act accordingly.

>>50619602
you are severely overestimating the influence of chaos on a person in the imperium, while at the same time underestimating the strength of your average culture citizen, society. drone, let alone mind.

Also, indistuingishable VR exists in the culture, and people upload if they want impossible stuff.

>>50619634
look up infinite fun space. Minds like that sort of challenge, they spend most of their time dealing with physically impossible simulations.

>>50619559

I brought up the Eldar for a reason. The Eldar were almost exactly, point-for-point, like the Culture, pre-fall. Every need fulfilled, every desire taken care of, except over the course of thousands of years they got bored of all the sameyness. Got bored of how many restrictions there were on what was and wasn't morally permissible, bored of how little of life they were "really" allowed to experience, and eventually wanted so much more - as mortals often do.

I'm not going to describe in full detail the Fall of the Eldar but it's essentially what I'm saying would inevitably happen to the Culture - Maybe over ten, or a hundred, or thousands of years, the Culture would fall into the clutches of constantly seeking new pleasures and new highs, new novelties and new senses. Consider the fact that people in the Culture can live for hundreds of years. Things can get awfully boring for a being that has seen the same old things a hundred times over. Then you have to consider the fact that the Eldar's Fall happened entirely by accident, without any careful planning by a sentient malevolent God helping it along the way. The Eldar gave birth to Slaanesh through millenia of Hellraiser murder-orgies. Now imagine how easy it would be if there actually was a sentient, all-corrupting influence whose sole purpose and whose entire being in fact is centered around seduction and addiction helping this happen. If it happened by accident to the Eldar if it can certainly happen on purpose to the Culture.

>>50619490
yeah, that's pretty much how I saw it too, the Minds are just too paranoid to even try to use something they cannot completely understand or manipulate.

To add the Culture to 40k, you have to add all tech fluff, because the ships and the Minds just don't work without it, and if you give the Minds their big shiny toys, they are pretty much invincible

That bring another question though : would Chaos be able to use the same kind of tech ? the Grid and the way Minds maintain their consciousness requires ungodly amount of computational power, and Chaos never struck me as particularly tech-savy, they are pretty much at the same level as the Imperium, except they can use warp travel safely

>>50619559
The problem is each experience that is taken to excess contributes to slaneesh's power. If the whole culture is based on excess slaneesh's power would be taken beyond almost anything. Also what you should keep in mind is slaneesh didnt exist before the fall, the eldar created it by the excess they lived in. All the tech and firepower in the world cant stop the entire culture being dissolved into the warp

>>50619634
>That's why the only effective defense against chaos in WH40k is pure, unquestioning, unyielding, uncompromising and utterly irrational faith.

Not true. A simple change of lifestyle makes a big difference.

Humanity has a bad track record of "knowing" what to do about Chaos. The Emperor thought that just making sure no one but him knew Chaos was a threat would prevent Chaos from doing anything, an that got him killed.

The Imperium that followed decided that unquestioning faith is all that it takes to beat Chaos, and they are regularly up to their ass in Chaos cults. Why? Because Imperial citizens don't question matters of faith AND they are not educated on Chaos, so all a Chaos cult has to do is say "Tzen Cha is a little known saint of the Emperor, worshiping him is totally cool. Look, I am wearing an aquila and everything, you can trust me" and slowly ramp up the chaosy parts of the church meets over time. And that shit works with such alarming regularity that the Inquisition still doesn't have time to catch all of it.

But you know who does pretty well against Chaos? The Tau, whose culture minimizes all of the influences that Chaos normally would feed on because indivudal wants and desires don't matter in the face of the Greater Good.

But lets ignore the Tau, even. After all, they have weak souls.

Lets talk about the Interex, a coalition of humans and aliens discovered during the great crusade who openly knew what Chaos was, taught their citizens about it, and knew the signs of Chaos corruption and why it was a stupid idea.
The Interex didn't have any fucking problems with Chaos. In fact, they recognized the signs of Chaos corruption already spreading through the Primarchs, tried to warn the Imperials, and Chaos had to come up with an excuse to bomb them into oblivion to keep them from averting the entire Horus Heresy in a week.

Chaos isn't really that strong. The Imperium is just really fucking bad at dealing with Chaos as a threat.

>>50619704

Kind of what this anon is saying, too. Chaos is powered, fundamentally, by the emotions, wants, desires, and feelings of all sentient beings. (or at least those that have souls like humans)

The amount of excess and decadence generated by the Culture would power up Slaanesh to such an absurd degree that it would probably open up multiple different reality-melting Warpstorms the size of or even greater than the Eye of Terror across the Culture's universe, from which who knows how many countless trillions of daemons and black crusades would spew forth from. Unless the Culture can find a way to curb the general pleasure-seeking behaviors of all their trillions upon trillions of citizens, every single act of self gratification carried out by every citizen would simply serve to further destabilize the line between the physical universe and the realm of the Warp wherein the Chaos gods reign supreme as essentially omnipotent beings.

>>50619683
That's where the looping part comes in: You keep playing for infinity with the simulation, making you unable to act, as acting would require to come to an imperfect solution. If you accept the imperfect solution, you stopped calculating and by doing so accepted chaos as a variable: Chaos has won. The correct solution is to ignore the chaos factor as if it never existed, because you have a firm set of variables that you believe are without fault, even if all logic tells you otherwise, allowing you to define the chaos element by your standards, thereby replacing the chaos of the immaterium with the chaos of your own making, which is slightly more survivable.

>>50619704

Who gets to decide what is excess and what isn't?

Wouldn't you say that enlightened monks take giving up all worldly desires and goods to an excessive extreme? OH FUCK SLANEESH CORRUPTION OUT OF NOWHERE LOLOLOLOL

>it's another chaos vs something else setting
Chaos can either be retardedly powerful or underpowered based on its writer and their perspective

Chaos at its strongest can cause anything material to decay, any thinking entity to break or any soul to shatter with the equivalent of a blink at the same time it can be so weak as to be resisted by a single individual.

>>50619817
This is a great point! This is why I dont like slaneesh his claim to power is fairly broad and undefined. It is generally only self serving excess for pleasure in 40k

>>50619848
Also chaos is a supposed to paradoxical and confusing so it isn't really quantifiable

>>50619817
> Hey, Hey guys, I just thought of a brilliant way to kill Slannesh
>If we redefine the word Excess so that it can't possibly exist, then Slannesh will have nothing to feed on.

I know the Warp is a realm of pure thought and all, but you can't just kill it by closing your eyes and screaming "I don't believe in ghosts! They aren't real" at the top of your lungs. That's how the whole Heresy started in the first place.

>>50619812

Honestly, I never saw Chaos as being that hard to understand. They are, in fact, pretty damn predictable. While it doesn't follow the same rules as our universe, the Warp very clearly follows a set of rules in how it functions.

The Minds would analyze Chaos pretty comprehensively without that much difficulty. The only real problem is getting data in the first place to make their simulations.

Speaking of which: anyone's best guess on how long it would take the Minds the simulate a warp-god specifically designed to be the alpha predator that eats Chaos gods?

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>>50619817
>>50619864

Excess herein meaning excessive self-gratification in the form of carnal pleasure, vanity, and over-indulgent behavior. However, it also means the more subtle emotions of pride and vanity. Even experiencing the tiniest hint of pride at your own chastity is something that Slaanesh can potentially tap into, as has been stated in some of the novels.

The point of the 40k universe's warp-magic-fuckery is that Chaos corruption can only really be warded off by either not having a warp-signature (as in the Tau), extreme discipline (as in the Eldar), unquestioning and irrational faith (as in the Imperium) or just being utterly and completely oblivious (as in the Orks)

>>50619885
So the minds create Malal? Badass.

>>50619872

You can't redefine something that was never defined in the first place.

Excess is, by fucking definition, a relative concept. Its not something set in stone. Hope, Anger, and despair are all universal benchmarks even if what causes them in a given individual varies, but excess literally cannot exist without a benchmark to define what is a non-excessive amount of something.

Don't blame me because 40k lore is poorly written.

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>>50619655

Okay I was with this fanfic up until at one point they just stated in one sentence that they stole the Warding sigils from the Grey Knights to protect their ship's minds from being corrupted

That's not how it works you fucking heretics, the wards and sigils are literally powered and given their protective qualities by the GK's faith in the Emperor - the Minds would still be completely unprotected unless they actually started having faith

>>50618789
Chaos is nothing compared to the Culture. The Minds are quite literally faster. If you uploaded scrapcode into a Culture mind somehow, it would be able to instantly circumvent it by just expunging the effected data. For example, Culture GSV ship battles occur so fast that you can't even observe them, for all intents and purposes they're instantaneous because they think so fast. Hell I'm pretty sure Culture Minds actually think faster than the speed of light. Minds think faster and act faster than Chaos taint can physically spread.

>>50619885
Never
The warp is powered by souls, emotions and thoughts, if anything they will end up powering one of the pre existing chaos gods

>>50620004

Just like how the Eldar powered an existing god instead of creating a new one, right?

This thread is silly
GUYS
THE WARP IS LITERALLY POWERED BY THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS
LOGIC IS ONE OF TZEENTCHS DISCIPLINES
LITERALLY DO THE MATH

>>50620021
Slaanesh already existed, and Slaanesh created itself.

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>>50619885
>>50620021

>simulate a warp-god specifically designed to be the alpha predator that eats Chaos gods?

So in other words the Minds end up inadvertently creating Malal and in doing so consign the entire universe to an eternity of anarchy and endless self-destruction lmao

>>50620021
Literally a minor god given more power and a new name
Everyone at one point has thought of everything
The eldar pretty much just put their faith into an entity aligned with their beliefs

>>50620030

Khorne's domain is battle, and he loses fights all the time.

Really makes you think.

>>50619932
And yet, Slannesh came to be, despite the fact that the Eldar had pretty much stopped giving a shit at that point.

The very fact that Slannesh sprung from a society that had abandoned the concept of excess, shows that there is some sort of unsaid universal benchmark for excess in the 40k universe. The Culture could pull semantics all they want, at the end of the day, excess is excess as defined by the unwritten laws of 40k.

>>50620076
Slaanesh didn't come to be. The cults that "created" Slaanesh were in fact started by Slaanesh. Chaos Gods and Chaos in general also don't have creation/birth dates really. The Path of Heaven shows that the warp exists like an ocean, and the four Gods lived int he deepest reaches of it. It was the actions of the materium that drew them up from the depths.

>>50620101
Fuck off Carnac.

>>50620073
Khorne cares not whence the blood flows...

>>50619994
Chaos is does not obey physical rules, hence there is no concept of relativity to it. You cannot be faster than something that does and does not exist in time. Chaos obeys the rules of the immaterium the same way a tourist obeys the local customs: With no concept of why they exist, how they work and a fanatical drive to interpret them in the most asinine way possible. When you start your incredibly fast thought process, chaos takes a few eternities to come up with a single myriad of answers then delivers them to you before, during or after your thought process started, while it has changed the question into something else.

The only way to win against chaos is not to play with chaos.

>>50619817
>Everything is normal
>EXCESS OF NORMALITY
>No emotions
>EXCESS OF EMOTIONLESSNESS SLAANESH CORRUPTS NECRONS
>Khorne doesn't personally fight or EXCESS OF VIOLENCE
>Tzneetch only plans because EXCESS OF ACTION
>Nurgle must occasionally bathe or EXCESS OF FILTH

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>>50620142

>Implying the only way to win against Chaos isn't to have faith in the Emperor

>>50620159

Already talked about

>>50619897

>>50620101
Do not even think about bringing up that "Chaos can pop in and literally Retcon events" piece of Lore.

That is a shit piece of Lore Made by Lazy, High-off-their-Asses, Writers that adds nothing to the series besides allow them to cover any Lazy, High-off-their-asses, mistakes that they make when writing shit. It kicks up the story for the sake of being confusing and mysterious with no real point. That is the objectively worst bit of fluff that is currently still in 40k.

>>50620163
Having blind faith in the emperor is the very definition of not playing with chaos, oh mighty -I-.

I think its safe to say we have sufficiently answered OPs question.

OP wanted wanted to know why The Culture was said to be able to resist Chaos, and that's been explained again and again. Meanwhile, the only counter argument that's been put forth is just "B-but, they're gods!"

As if that has done them any good in their OWN setting, much less against a more advanced and better equipped one.

>>50620142
Except in the books, scrapcode travels at an observable speed, so you're full of shit.

>>50620246

It's been established that the average citizens of the Culture (although powerless) would be very susceptible to Chaos and its influences

The real question though, which hasn't really been answered, is whether or not the Minds could potentially be corrupted.

>>50620178
Be'lakor in WHFB rewrote reality and the timeline several times to ensure the rise of Archaon.

Also he said that time and death are nothing to beings like himself. Then he summoned temporal clones of a Skaven abomination from the future and the past.

Personally, I think it's neat. Anyways back to 40K.

The Echo of the First Murder, End of Empires, Drach'nyen was born when the first sentient man killed his brother in cold blood. The first murder. It's birth echoed through space and time, it spread out its tendrils and touched the minds of every man, woman, and child that lived, live, and will ever live. All humans across all worlds and time felt its touch upon them.

When Drach'nyen opened its physical eyes for the first time it found itself not on ancient Earth, its birth place, but in the Webwaythousands of years into the future on the scent of a being that is known as the anathema.

That kind of fluff is Metal, dude.

>>50620253
Which books? You do realise entire attack fleets have entered the warp and then left it BEFORE they entered?

The warp generally adheres loosely to the rules of the materium when interacting with it, which gives the impression of being predictable, controllable even, but it also breaks them at the same time and occasionally it completely ignores every single physical rule and does whatever it wants. That's how the thing gets you eventually: you think you have it figured out, open yourself to it, and then come the dildos.

>>50620338
>The warp generally adheres loosely to the rules of the materium when interacting with it

The upper layer, mind you. The lower layers are absolute mayhem.

The Culture is run by AIs that aren't affected by the warp. They would engineer their races to be like the Tau.

>>50619559
>Yeah, but what can Slaneesh offer to someone who can already experience the absolute maximum amount of physical pleasure that a human body can achieve just by thinking about it?

For one thing, Slaanesh can offer beyond the absolute maximum amount of human pleasure. For Slaanesh Cultists life is so fucking awesome they stop thinking it's awesome.

Yes, Culture citizens can get this for free, but Slaanesh can convince them it's not enough and offer them even more. The Culture has perfect drugs, but Slaanesh can give perfect drugs +1. That's what excess is about. If a drug fueled sex party is normal, Slaanesh goes beyond a drug fueled sex party.

>>50620417
Oh dear emperor, did you just put "AI" and "unaffected by the warp" into the same sentence? Are you mad? Do you not know where you are?

>>50620462

AI is, by default, unaffected by the warp. Chaos has to go out of their way to find ways to get a foothold in AIs.

A robot exposed to demonic forces can become possessed, but so can a snowglobe. The fact that its an AI doesn't make it any more vulnerable than anything else.

Chaos can't just posses shit willy-nilly, and if a Mind has fallen into the hands of Chaos something so unbelievably unlikely has already happened that its not worth guessing what will happen next because Horus was the Emperor all along.

>>50620417
What are Men of Iron?

>>50620512
Not the culture

>>50620512

Robots that turned on humanity for reasons unrelated to Chaos?

>>50620507
>We are immune to chaos.
>Yes, other people have said the same thing before us and then fell to chaos, but we are different.
>Now let me tell you about the glory of chaos undivided.

What keeps the Necrons from turning to Chaos? Is it something about Necrodermis?

>>50620628

Necrons aint got no souls

>>50620613

Good to know that The Emperor is the first and most powerful champion of the dark gods, right anon?

>>50620507
Well, thing is, without a soul a snowglobe and an AI are equally capable of being possessed. Equally difficult, but still equal. It's difficult enough that a daemon wouldn't bother with a snowglobe, but would readily infect power AI,

>>50620628
That and I presume being so incredibly bitter and full of hatred that they feel like blanks and it just kills any Warp vibes... but it's probably more the Necrodermis thing.

>>50620628

Honestly, GW can't decide what the fuck to do with the Necrons anymore.

One week the Necrons have technology that makes anything warp-related cease to exist if it gets too close, and this is the only reason the Eye of Terror hasn't gotten any bigger. The next, a single low tier demon destroys an entire Tomb World and the necrons are powerless to stop it.

>>50620638
Did you just imply that the God Emperor of Mankind is not in fact a God, but a champion of another God? What are you? Some kind of Tech-Priest?

>>50620636
But Chaos can possess swords and armor and shit?

>>50620665
Don't forget C'tan shards being able to destroy entire worlds on their own, but also can be destroyed by a super heavy tank.

>>50620670

It's not so much possessing swords and armor but rather daemons choosing to inhabit them, or in some cases being eternally bound to them. All cases of chaos possessing inanimate objects is just daemons being stuffed into them like poltergeists.

>>50620600
One of them did turn for reasons related to Chaos. The Tabula Myriad was a DaoT AI that through calculations discovered that humanity will bring about this destruction of all reality by inviting in the beings of the Warp. It concluded the only solution is to wipe out humanity. It led Iron Men armies for a while until it was defeated.

It surfaced again in during the HH. What should be noted about it that it and its robot servants were immune to the Chaos Scrap Code and taint by shielding themselves with absolute truths and calculus.

>>50620665

That actually raises an interesting point.

Everything the necrons have is explicitly technology based. Shouldn't the Culture be able to build big fuckoff anti-warp pylons too? Culture ships are more than large enough to carry around one of those each and never have to worry about Chaos again.

It has, after all, be established that sufficiently advanced technology CAN tell to warp to go eat shit and cry on facebook.

>>50620687
What about that mega-Titan that was a daemon engine?

Or daemon engines in general?

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Chaos isn't really a 'force' that can be beaten, it's just the base rules of the universe.

40k is designed with deliberately perverse metaphysics to create a world in which bad things become necessary for survival.
Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.

To argue that sci-fi race X could totally beat chaos is to miss the point entirely. Chaos is part of the 40k universe specifically to explain why something like The Culture doesn't exist. The Old Ones tried it, Necrons tried it, Eldar tried it, Humans tried it and none of them succeeded because that's the point of the setting.

It's nothing to do with power levels.

>>50620707

Daemon engines are powered by actual daemons though, they're just physical shells with occult shit that allows them to be inhabited by spirits of the Warp

>>50620724
But the Necrons almost beat Chaos. Admittedly, it was probably at the cost of all life with souls, but still.

>>50620741
Well yeah, so why could a daemon not just climb inside an AI in the same way?

>>50620665
>The next, a single low tier demon destroys an entire Tomb World and the necrons are powerless to stop it.

Low tier? It was a gigantic daemon prince that ate the molten core of the world. He took the form of a huge monstrous worm with a Warp rift for a head that it used to flood the core with daemons. Then the daemon prince changed the layout of the tunnels to isolate the Necrons into small groups that were overrun by the ceaseless daemon tide.

How is this low tier?

>>50620178
>Calling writing stupid in a threat about the culture and 40k

You seem to have taken a wrong turn mate...

>>50620744
Right. Perverse metaphysics in action: the only way to beat chaos is for life to be destroyed entirely.

>>50620782
Life can exist without souls. The Necrons, AIs, and Pariahs are all evidence of this.

>>50620760

Daemons can't freely stay in the physical realm unless there's something special to keep them bound to it like a nearby Warpstorm / rift into the Warp, or alternatively the previous-mentioned occult shit that allows them to be summoned or bound to material objects. If you remove what keeps the daemon anchored to the physical world you essentially banish the daemon back into the Warp.

This is the reason why actual summoning circles and such are necessary to get demons into the physical realm, they need something to anchor to

>>50620760
Depends on the daemon. Robot warriors of the Admech are effective against daemons because they are not affected by the daemons horror and corruption as mortals are.

However, certain powerful daemons like can possess machine willy-nilly. Drach'nyen mass possessed several Admech robots and even was going to possess a titan before it changed its mind since that didn't fit its purpose. It was literally jumping from one machine and fleshbag to the next.

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>>50620794
Pariahs are called sometimes undead.

The Necrons are undead machines.

Being soulless means you are not truly alive.

>>50620794

Life can exist, in a way, sure, but emotions can't. The reason Pariahs and Necrons can go around is because they're emotionless robots. The whole idea of 40k's souls is that souls ARE emotions and vice versa.

>>50620794
I guess the question is whether life without a soul is really worth it.
The new Necrons seem to have some personality, which I always thought was odd. Pariahs were always depicted as something fundamentally wrong and detestable.

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>>50618789
yeah, but dude... sentient flying knives.

None of this matters. They would all get their ass kicked by the Xeelee.

>>50620873
That's because the soul rails against the hole in the Warp that's near by. Pariahs have personalities like regular people don't they?

>>50620873
>I guess the question is whether life without a soul is really worth it.

Going by how the Newcrons feel bout it? No. It's horrible. They want to fix it and return to flesh.

>>50620905
FFG RPG books say no. They try to mimic the personality and social behavior of normal folks but that makes them even more unnerving.

>>50620855
>The whole idea of 40k's souls is that souls ARE emotions

Hahahaha fucking Tau

>>50618789
id say the culture would win hands down
each one of those minds has fucking tzeentch level intelligence. I think people underestimate how fast these things would work everything out and win.

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What if the Excession showed up?

>>50620979
FFG isn't canon.

>>50620338
Are you retarded? This has fuck-all to do with scrap code, and never has scrap code demonstrated any ability to hack back in time. You're just shitposting drivel at this point that's completely baseless.

Scrapcode is a daemon attack upon a machine, but it is not instant, and it takes time to enact. A Culture Mind does not have an actual computer room or some shit. Minds are distributed across multiple dimensions/universes, with the data that comprises them filling up multiple pocket dimensions. They have complete control over these, and can expunge anything that becomes corrupted, and have innumerable fail-safes upon detecting any intrusion to quarantine/jettison the infected portion. They're essentially impossible to hack.

tl;dr on the Culture, they're basically "ha ha you can't touch me I have an invisible shield that stops everything" kid on the playground, the faction. The only thing that could beat them would be something like the Time Lords who can just go back in time and erase them. Or erase their entire universe.

>>50621077

Yeah, it's worth remembering that the main reason for the stagnation of he 40k universe is that every faction is astoundingly retarded. If you let any non-retarded faction get in the door then it'd all be over.

>>50620512
C'Tan fuckery

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>>50621675

>tl;dr on the Culture, they're basically "ha ha you can't touch me I have an invisible shield that stops everything" kid on the playground, the faction.

Only compared to other settings. In-universe there's a bunch of other races like the Homomda and Morthanveld that are equal to the Culture, and even weaker ones like the Affront that can troll the Culture without consequence.

In any case, Chaos would be more of a soul attack than a physical one.

>>50621943
The Excession who basically showed up to prove that there is still room for improvement.

>>50621943
>even weaker ones like the Affront that can troll the Culture without consequence
Well, only because the Culture decided to let them off without consequences due to embarrassment. They could have easily genocided them if the Minds had the will.

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>>50618789
The sheer existence of the Culture inside the 40k universe would herald the creation of Double Slaanesh. That this thread's gone on so long is silly.
What you really should be asking is how could 40k hope to prevail against the Planet Trade Organization

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>>50619763
While I wouldn't go so far as "Chaos isn't that strong", given that possessing the wrong kind of information CAN summon demons/turn you into a demon/fuck your planet up, you're dead on that the idea that the Imperium is the only way to beat Chaos is horseshit.
Like another anon said, "Chaos has to be invited in", and the real danger is that there are lots of ways to invite it in accidentally, but many cultures still muddle along without doing that.
The Interex is the best example, and basically their sole purpose in the setting was to show how fucked up even the Golden Age Imperium was, but there are tons of alien species with no special protections who haven't fallen to Chaos either.

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>>50619641
>All puny humans/transhumans/xenos/meat-things with zero control over the Culture. They're pets.

But they're also gateways for Chaos to enter the material universe and living vessels to be used by Daemons. A GSV losing it's population to Chaos could unleash Warp Storms that cause all kinds of havoc. A ship that was unable to access it's systems because of the energies of the Warp and had Greater Daemons on board would be in a terrible situation, even for something as powerful as a Culture Mind.

>The Culture is it's Minds, which are soulless AI

Culture Minds have emotions, which in 40K are tied to the soul.

>>50619097
>if they cannot be corrupted by Chaos, then the Culture wins

Culture Minds can become corrupted and unstable, so Chaos would properly bugger them like anyone else.

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>>50622331
Humanity has the perfect solution.

>>50623375
>Culture Minds have emotions, which in 40K are tied to the soul.
No they aren't dumbass, souls are genetic in 40k, and with genetic engineering they can be removed (which is how Pariahs exist). Something that does not have the mutation that grants it a soul would not have a soul. It's also why Machines in 40k have souls, because the "Machine Spirit" is actually part of or an entire human brain (or multiple brains) shoved into something.

Chaos Daemons also won't be able to do anything to a mind, as it simply thinks and operates too fast for them. Literally any engagement, any fight with them will be decided in a couple of nanoseconds by the Mind.

>>50624734
Explain then why Horza thought that his crew of random pirates were sufficient to capture a Mind.

>>50624845
Because its ship was destroyed by the Idirans and it was physically defenseless. The only obstacle to its capture was the Planet of the Dead.

>>50622685
You know, I don't hear much about the Interex but assuming that's still canon, are the Interex basically just the 'better' imperium? As in, if the Imperium had went down the path of knowledge and cooperation like they did, rather than fedoras and xenophobia, would they have ended up better off? I vaguely remember it being that the Interex also had really crazy tech too but might be thinking of someone else.

>>50619696
Dark Mechanicus is powerful as all fuck, they are actually the ones closest in power to DAoT levels of achievement. It's just that they, not unlike their patron Gods, are compelled more towards infighting than actual conquering.

>>50625833
Pretty much. The Interex exist to show the Emperor might not be right. They're a test of faith I suppose.

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What's your favourite Culture book lads?

I like all of them, but Phlebas slightly less.

>>50620304
That is honestly one of the lamest things I've ever read, which is saying something for 40k lore

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>>50625912
Definitely The Player of Games. I'm in the minority in that I really enjoyed Matter as well.

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>>50625933
I fucking loved matter.

>MFW The Iln War Machine wakes up

'Meat Fucker' would turn on the Grid Fire and crispy fry whole swatches. Get a couple of Ships doing that and it gets verrry empty in that sector.

>>50619416
If the Slannesh guys and Dark Eldar want spikes and chains, just kick them over to Meat Fucker and they'll get their fix.

>>50624120
Why is he so dreamy

>>50618789
Nothing can take on 40K and win, because Chaos literally defined as "We can corrupt everything and in the end, we always win." The only thing that surprises me is constant need of Chaosfags to jerk off to this.

>>50619490
That assumes that:
1) Their tech works like that in the grid
2) That a shittonne explosions in the warp are actually a meaningful hinderance to creatures who don't have to slow down for causality.
3) Chaos can't stop that in their home dimension whose only meaningful rules of physics is that it conforms to their whims.

...Can Chaos actually corrupt AI?

Because I mean, The Culture is effectively an AI society that has humans for pets.

>>50626318
Through magic of Chaos bullshit, yes, it can. Men of Iron were corrupted, just as some ancient AIs from DAoT.

>>50625912
phlebas is my fav ;(

>>50626286

I don't think you understand. While, yes, the Minds could create gridfire attacks on specific locations in the Warp, that's a pain in the ass but not really going to do much beyond fuck specific places and occasionally demons caught in the explosion.

The real danger is that the Minds can attack the very structure of the Warp itself, from outside the Warp. They can attack the grid structure that keeps the warp INTACT in such a way that the internal rules and chaos of the warp never come into play, because the attacks never need to cross over to into their area of effect.

It would certainly be a major project, but rigging the Warp to collapse in on itself and cease to exist entirely is something the Minds can do. They have to create and destroy hundreds of different pocket dimensions just to build a single Mind in the first place. Punch holes in other dimensions is one of their canon tricks, and one they use for all sorts of shit.

>>50624845
that mind was completely crippled by a previous idiran engagement. you cant seriously try and use that as an example

>>50627196
You're going to have a hard time convincing anyone on this thread, and I don't mean that as an insult. A lot of 40k fanboys will only grudginly admit a omnipotent god could defeat Chaos

>>50627196
Again, you're assuming the warp works in a consistent way to any of the dimensions they play with or even consistent to itself. You could perhaps cut it off from reality, where time generally goes in the same direction and effect follows cause.

>>50627222
I'm just saying gridfire won't do it. There isn't a simple easy answer to chaos, because part of the rules for Chaos is that rules don't apply. Unless the Culture is used to dealing with effects that might not have been caused yet (or potentially ever), with the rules of physics not only being in flux, but being malevolently tilted against any predictions, and with retroactive changes to what happened to suit, you're not going to "blow up" the warp with any amount of science.

tl;dr: It's magic, they don't need to explain shit.

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>>50625951
>>50625976
>>50627222

Okay but are we really going to ignore what >>50622331 said?

The mere existence of the Culture - and the insane amount of decadence they revel in - would be enough to almost instantaneously power up Slaanesh to such absurd degree that he/she/xir would eclipse all the other Chaos gods combined

I can only imagine how many new Eyes of Terror would be opened up by Slaanesh coming into contact with a super-empire filled with countless trillions of indulgent wastrels who care only for pleasure

Hell depending on how bad it would be the entire Culture might open up a Warpstorm the size of the entire universe and collapse the very fabric of their own reality from the sheer weight of their debauchery

Warp storms aint nothing to fuck with, neither would be Super-Slaanesh

>>50627383
even one plate-GSV with a million or 10 citizens, say 4-5 MSV and some psychopath-class vessels would stomp the WH40K universe. No need for the entire universe. If you roll in the entire Culture universe, you get stuff like Sublimed civs with Excession-capable stuff, and chaos really would cease to exist.

>>50627340
>tl;dr: It's magic, they don't need to explain shit.

So what your saying is that there is no argument of any kind that you would be willing to accept as a basis for chaos losing any given matchup. Because magic.

>>50627429

Only problem with that is, as the OP stated, Chaos, who cannot be killed off by conventional physical means due to being magical demons-n-shit powered by pure emotions and souls. Wherever beings with emotions exist Chaos will exist as well, and likewise will be able to corrupt them via their emotions. It's flat out stated in some of the novels that the only way to actually "destroy" Chaos would be to literally exterminate all sentient creatures in the entire universe to "starve" the Chaos gods out.

Would the Culture really be willing to exterminate all of its citizens, and all of its Minds save those who are completely emotionless?

>>50627473

I think the point here is that you can only fight magic with other forms of magic, and the Culture can only fight magic with hard sci-fi stuff, which just doesn't really work.

>>50627474
necrons do have tech or other ways to cancel out chaos right, as do the Tau, or the other factions / tribes of humans in the WH40K universe.

Culture would find these. Even if it requires removing the 'soul' of their citizens, nothing a few effectors can't handle. Or they build some nice necron Pylons.

The fanfic linked earlier >>50619655
gives a solution to the "its magic I aint gotta explain shit" of the chaos gods. By comparing 2 universes you _have_ to choose. It seems from the Wh40k universe that choas abides some rules. If these rules in any involve something in the physical universe, ie pylons, a certain biological makeup, symbols, or require infection vectors, Culture will find these.

>>50625833

You know how the Dark Age of Technology had humanity's untold billions of robot servants rise up in rebellion, only to be eventually beaten by mankind at a staggering cost? Man had to completely wipe out the Men of Iron in order to end the threat, because even a single one left active could restart the whole process. This would've required a massive amount of coordination and military power. There must have been some humans with advanced technology, FTL ships and a consolidated infrastructure left at the end of the war, or else the war could never have been won.

The Interex are basically those guys: the humans who came out of the DAoT with some of their leaders alive, their technology mostly intact and started to rebuild, rather than being absolutely murderfucked early on in the war like Terra and left to go all Mad Max. The only reason they lost to the Imperium was because they hadn't been ravenously expansionist, resulting in a smaller war machine, and because Horus pulled some underhanded shit during diplomacy. Their fucking rank-and-file soldiers could take on space marines.

>>50627509

Taus' got a weak warp signature, but one that exists nonetheless. It's not really explained why they have such a weak signature though. It might simply be their devotion to the Greater Good.

Pylons are a bit tricky though. Every single one of them was created by the Void Dragon during the War in Heaven, and the VD's basically the incarnation of oblivion and "fuck the warp". The point of the Pylons in the later novels is that nobody, not even the Necrons themselves, actually know how they're made and how they can be repaired - only the VD seems to know how, and nobody wants to wake him up because terrible terrible things will happen if he does.

There's also the question of Pariahs, but the point of Pariahs is that they're completely emotionless and have no inner 'soul' to speak of, they're like genuine psychopaths who can't really feel anything due to not having a soul and therefor immune to Chaos

Chaos does follow rules, however, and they are bound to the physical universe - but not in the way you're making it out to be. The rules that Chaos abides by is that of personal experience, emotions, beliefs, ideas, thoughts. It's a parallel universe essentially fueled by the collective psychic signature of all the emotions, hopes, and desires of every single sentient soul-bearing creature. Hence what was said here >>50627474
in that the only feasible way there is to "destroy" Chaos is to exterminate every sentient creature in the universe. Something that the Necrons (or at least 3rd edition Necrons) have been trying to do.

>>50627488

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic. The Culture passed that point a long time ago.

Chaos isn't really that hard to understand. You can basically make a flowchart that covers 90% of everything Chaos will ever do. The fact that the Chaos gods are based around specific emotions and motivations and personality traits that are central tot heir being makes them ridiculously easy to predict.

>>50626019
The answer is in his name.

>>50627569

"Mister" Perfect Cell

>>50627509
Again, the problem is that Chaos isn't an enemy as such. It's a consequence of the universe's metaphysics.
In the real world, knowledge and intelligence is good. In 40k, it is a double-edged sword, and too much knowledge is just as much of a danger as too little.

The Culture's strength is based on its knowledge and intelligence, but it doesn't work the same in 40k.

>>50627617
>That universe's rules don't work against 40k because I say so, so 40k wins forever!!!

Fuck right off, 40kid.

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>>50618789

>>50627634
I never said anything about winning. I'm saying that the two settings are incompatible.

If the world works like it does in The Culture books, then The Culture wins.
If the world works like it does in 40k, then Chaos wins.

If Necrons can deal with the warp, then The Culture shouldn't have any issues whatsoever.

Only way Chaos might win is if it was written by GW.

If the Tau somehow un mind-fucked the Necrons into being willing to serve the Greater Good, I'm pretty sure that would create the in-universe equivalent of The Culture.

They would still get eaten by 'Nids.

>>50627488
Tell that to the fucking necrons, who are cavemen compared to the Culture

>>50620163
The only way to win against Chaos is to get Emps out of the Golden Throne and restore him back to his peak condition.

Then dissolve the High Lords or at least have them think further over their decisions.

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>>50627893
They can keep the warp out of realspace. Blowing up the warp is a whole different ballgame. Turns out antimatter and warpmatter just makes super demons. Or candy. Or raw magic to be harnessed by a passing sorcerer. Or nothing. Or it becomes a malevolent eternal explosion that now wants to invade realspace in the name of it's new gods.

>>50627488
Basically. I'd even accept sci-fi stuff with a proven track record against something comperable.

For the record, I think the Culture could do it, just not via "blow up the Warp with gridfire." Plan lock the warp out by recreating the pylons seems more likely.

>>50627559
Also in of the ad mech books; DAoT era as mech ships have an AI that can operate hidden black hole guns on the ship. Literally one point where the AI fires at an eldar ship, the farseer on board responds by moving the ship forward just enough to make the shot miss (using all of his/her power), to which the Ad mech AI responds by literally sending the ship back in time by one second where the ship didn't move forward

>>50628326
Any armed culture vessel can do that, easily. And no firing required, creation and teleportation of singularities in ships themselves.

But why tha culture would fight chaos? Why not let it go thru and work their stuff with it in simbiosis? We know that not all daemon worlds are fucked holes, so culture could make their daemon infested ships not one too, right?

>>50620691
Where is this from?

>>50627906

'Cause the Emperor did SO WELL against chaos the last time, huh?
Face it, dude, the Emperor's just as incompetent as every other 40k faction. (Chaos included)

>>50628671
Maybe he learned something after those 10K years of sitting and suffering?

>>50628842

How many thousands of years did he have to figure out how human beings work before finally he gave the Shamanic voices that guided him the finger and started meddling with humans and then misjudged them royally?

The shamans were right. The Age of Strife was bad, but him getting involved just turned it into the Age of Everything Is Fucked For the Next Ten Thousand Plus Years.

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ALRIGHT LADS, LETS SETTLE THIS ONCE AND FOR ALL

1. Because Chaos is known to easily corrupt AIs and technological beings through the use of Scrapcode (essentially a demon in computer-code format) would the Minds be able to be potentially corrupted by Chaos via this method? Scrapcode might be especially dangerous to the Minds because its essentially a super-virus that operates outside the bounds of conventional physics, and in one instance I think was stated to be non-temporal (like most things associated with Chaos usually are) and thus able to corrupt and "rewrite" computer-code that exists in the past.
2. If not via Scrapcode, could the Minds be convinced and subverted by Tzeentch and friends - whether through a deal with the devil or through Tzeentch subtly trying to teach them how to use Warp Sorcery as a new and undiscovered form of "technology"?
3. If the Minds decided that the 40k universe must be "converted" (I'm pretty sure they would) how would they deal with their inability to interface or interact with the Warp, and would this potentially factor into Tzeentch trying to make pact (or, should I say, "diplomatic agreement") with the Minds concerning how they might potentially pacify the Warp via being taught about the above mention Sorcery?
4. Would the trillions upon trillions of Culture citizens who exist only for the pursuit of pleasure and self-indulgence have souls or not and if so would they be corrupted by Slaanesh? The Culture is very, VERY similar - in fact almost point-for-point - to the Pre-Fall Eldar who were the ones who gave birth to Slaanesh in the first place via their millenia of mindless hedonism.
5. If the above mentioned trillions of Culture citizens do in fact have souls, would this be sufficient enough to open up a sort of Super-Mega Eye of Terror in the Culture's universe?

(continued)

>>50629057

6. If the above mentioned Super-Mega Eye of Terror event does happen, would the Culture have any real way of dealing with their entire reality unraveling as the division between the physical world and the Warp disintegrates?
7. If the Culture does have a method of dealing with the above in the short-term, would the Minds have Asimov-level laws that prevent them from exterminating their own citizens en-masse in order to prevent their civilization from being corrupted and to prevent a second such Super-Mega Eye of Terror reality-failure event from happening again? Would they be willing to kill their own citizens on a massive scale?
8. Would such Asimov-laws also prevent the Minds from mass-imprisoning / lobotomizing / killing all of their own citizens who show signs of Chaos worship? I figure the novelty-seeking behavior of the Culture's citizens will inevitably lead to many, many of them experimenting with Chaos worship that would then lead to the potential for being possessed by daemons.
9. If the Minds are capable of being corrupted themselves by Chaos (whether by Scrapcode or seduction / trickery / corruption by any the 4 Chaos Gods), would the Minds have methods in place to terminating each other? What happens if an entire GCU or GSV and its citizens/Minds become corrupted?
10. Would the Culture be able to completely abandon most of its moral principles in order to fight the Outside Context Problem that would be Chaos? Would they be able to abandon their pleasure-seeking principles and systems of morality that places value on every living / sentient being, if this was what was necessary to combat Chaos?

>>50628891
I think it was more like the whole bad parenting thing.

If he treated the Primarchs like his actual sons and didn't behave like he knew better, then all this situation would've never happened.

Also his plan of making people atheistic was a good one considering how Chaos functioned, yet even that was a failure since he couldn't predict where and when certain people would go full Chaos and when they'd go and corrupt stuff.

In other words his plans were good, but how he done them was bad...not to mention not predicting things.

If he did tell the Primarchs about Chaos and how dangerous, twisting and evil it was, and combine it with not behaving so dickish to them (ESPECIALLY ANGRON), then there wouldn't have been a Horus Heresy.

So maybe after those 10K years he did learn something.

Also it's just half of the problems. The other half was due to everyone else after the Heresy.

>>50629068
Culture da bes. Culture wins instantly. Warham is 4 babies, plz kill urself.

>>50629157
Pretty much. The Culture is unfathomably powerful. It doesn't make the series "better" than 40k so relax buddy.

Seriously, why do people keep feeding Chaosfags in those threads?

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>>50629363

Because there's seriously no answer to Chaos other than pic related

>>50629057
1. yeah no problem. Also, timescales are very different. build-in sanity checks, checksums, voting algorithms, multiple-universe level brains with fallbacks that also check. picosecond reaction time
2.I think a mind is smarter than Tzeentch. Culture knows interaction with vastly weird things that might be a trap - see Sublimed and Excessions, as well as OOC level things. They can and do think things through.
3. You assume inability; they see Tau, Necrons as well as imperium dealing with it in some ways. They will find, or copy, ways.
4.yeah, except that in their universe, this doesnt happen, there are no negative effects, and you can have indistuingishable from real VR where you can have your murder orgies. No souls or suffering there.
5. If we assume whole universe transport, we also transport Sublimed Civs, morthanfeldt, homumdams. Sublimed Civs- where the culture is actually semi-in-contact-with, would be on the level of chaos.

>>50629390
If pylon can be build by Necrons, then it can be built by any sufficiently smart and big civ, and from that I get from this thread, Culture is sufficiently smart and big. They can also finish Great Work of certain space vampires and permanently separate realspace and Warp.

>>50629068
6. fly away really fast. Or sublime. or try to fight. Or ask necrons/tau/eldar/humanity in the WH40k for help. or see what they do. Scratch that, all of the above, the culture would splinter, as it already continiously does.
7.no, ethics. Splinter groups do try similar stuff. In case of war, some ethics go overboard; specific minds are created to deel with it - see Abimonator and Psychopath class ROUs
8.see above
9. yes, they do constantly, and have self-sanity checks, checksums and shunt-ready backups in different states of matter ready. Voting algorithms, backups, transfer of mindstates to backups, storage as well as, if needed, sublimation, are possible.
10. depends on the effects.

This thing is basically 'god vs tech' but god is not omnipotent, has to deal with different things that dont exist in WH40k, and has some interaction with physics that isnt being used in wh40k because everyone there is stupid.
Hell, the culture might change everyones dna to be blanks. or have the emperors gene-seed. or have minimal-tau-like warp presence. Minds could add 400 self repairing levels of checksums that works at pico-seconds scales.

Also, build a pylon.

>>50620683
Or a very good ultramarine swordsman.

>>50620683
Just as a Greater Demons and Titans, mind you.

>You can beat Chaos with logic

Am I the only one who sees the problem here?

>>50630744
Well you can make Tzeentch or his servants busy if you throw paradoxes at them.