So I did a thing >PCs using ancient sealed evil to learn about

>>50579499
Only if you gave them no clues as tyo how many swords there should have been (9 orders, nine swords, nine champpions, etc), no clue that he was able to cast a 1st level spell of simple illusion, and did not give them a chance to pull out one of the illusionary swords rather than a real sword.

This last one may have been your mistake.

>>50579499
No one cast detect magic? No one checked to see if the demon hadn't fucked with his prison? No one did ANY fucking legwork? If you presented this to me i'd be like, guys lets go somewhere fucking else, that shit is bad news.

>>50579499

Ideally this would be the point where you pull out your typewritten notes that show all the different ways the PCs could have avoided this.

>>50579499
As long as you gave them a chance to discover the illusory swords I think you were good. The 9 Orders bit was a good clue. How did they go about choosing which sword to take out? Did you have like, little props on the table or in whatever program you were using? I feel like that's the real crux of the issue.

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>>50579539
>>50579544
>did not give them a chance to pull out one of the illusionary swords rather than a real sword.
Oh dang, that's It.

I think I did give them enough clues. They never tried detecting magic other than using the paladin to check If he's alone in here or not.

But I fucked up with the "choose a sword" bit. They never really asked, I completely missed that and we all just went "yeah, we pull the next one"

Dang It, It's kind of too late to retcon that now.

>>50579499
>9 paladin orders
>last three swords were an illusion
GOLD OP
THATS AWESOME AND IM STEALING IT AND YOU DESERVE A GOLD FUCKIN STAR

>>50579696
Even that has a workaround - the evil ccreature manipulated the illusion to make them chose the correct swords while they were doing the pulls..

Just make sure you follow up by making the evil creature an illusion heavy mother fucker now that he is free to regain his full power again.

Show them that illusion is truly a type of magic to be feared. No one thinks so because everyone assumes they'd never fall for an illusion.

>>50579499
>>50579753
This nigga's right, that's pretty fucking sneaky, well played. Your party's honestly just retarded, I woulda detected magic all over that shit first chance I got.

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>>50579499
>Making deals with an ancient sealed evil
Your players are idiots.

SCOURGE AND PURGE!

They should have taken the hint at "nine Paladin orders, but there's 12 swords"
That and they fucked up by being greedy. I would have removed three, tops, snd only if it was 150% necessary

>>50579499

Sounds like you foreshadowed properly. Your players are just cunts. You've done nothing wrong, they are just unhappy their actions had consequences. That's something that society doesn't teach them anymore.

>>50579499
Your party is dumb as bricks, not just for being so totally careless when dealing with a known evil, but being upset with the prospect of a new quest and adventure to reveal or defeat the evil.

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>>50579696
Yeah, that's a goof there but pic related cause this idea is 1000% gold. Pretty much do what
>>50579827
said and go with a guy who can make you think your comfortable bed is made of hot spikes and razors, mess with their perception of reality all the time and I think you'll have a number 1 jam in no time.

>PC's mess with the bindings on an ancient evil
>Get upset when this has negative consequences

Sure you should have given them a chance to pull an illusionary sword, but this is mostly on them.

>>50579499
>Players willingly help out the ancient evil.
They shouldn't have pulled out even one sword. I think they're just salty for this >>50579895 reason, they did something dumb and now it's coming back to hurt them. You a good GM, you dindu nuffin wrong.

But If all the swords were the magic seals, wouldn't "detect" ping on all of them either way.
Can the whole place be so magic, the detect spell goes static?

>>50579976
Detect magic would still ping on the illusions.

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What about those times when the ancient sealed evil is a benevolent entity that just wants to chill out and be worshiped for being a bro by the tiny fertility cults from the local area it resides?

>>50579499
>lol we'll just pull out eleven swords then we can ask eleven questions for free, what a stupid bad guy
They deserve everything that's coming to them for thinking that you or the sealed evil would make the solution that easy.

>>50579499
Ya did good, OP. You have nothing to be ashamed of, and you absolutely are not "That" DM.

>Nine Paladin Orders
>Twelve swords

Your players might be fuckin' dumb, though.

The silliest thing in all of this is that they never considered that pulling swords, any swords at all mind you, would weaken the seal. I mean what if they had pulled half of them and it had weakened the seal enough for the evil to escape it? The idea that "lol we'll just pull most of them" is incredibly stupid. It's like saying "well this huge monster is being bound with 13 chains. I'm sure that even if we remove most of the chains, i'm sure that just one or two will be enough to keep this giant monstrosity bound." it's just daft. Your players are too stupid to survive in a fantasy setting.

>>50579499
Even if there weren't illusionary swords involved, if there is more than one X being used to seal the ancient evil, thinking that you can just remove any number of those without consequences is dumb enough they deserve this.
I realise this won't help you much in pacifying your angry players, but really, they fucked this one up the whole way.
It was a actually clever idea on your part that makes sense for someone with the ability to do this to do, you gave all the right foreshadowing for them to be able to guess it too.

>>50579992
But it should ping as a different aura to the swords sealing the thing. different types of magic, and what not.

And thats the kicker. they never bothered trying to find out anything, so they got bit in the ass for it.

>>50579499
OP

Why did they pull out NINE swords?

What questions could POSSIBLY have been so vital that they thought pulling out NINE of the things keeping an ancient evil bound were a good idea?

Fuck, I wouldn't have even pulled out one of the damn things. How would you even know the information it was feeding you was accurate in the first place?

>>50580081
I wouldn't have even gone near it the second I heard he could cast minor spells.

>>50579696
If you actually wanted players to pick up on the 9 orders thing, you would have needed to repeat it a lot. I once ran a horror campaign, where number 27 repeated. If they needed room number? 27. How many monsters? 27. Age of victim? 27. Which day of the month? 27th.

I must have repeated the number at least a hundred times, and the players never figured it out. They even figured out how time magic works, and that there were more than 24 hours in each day, and that the BBEG was hiding in one of them. They went to, in order, 25th, 66th, 666th, 100th, and finally 27th after I thwacked them on the side of the head with it.

>>50580102
i thought for a split second of maybe using an antimagic field, but immediately discounted the thought as that would automatically unseal the beast.

>>50579895
>. You've done nothing wrong, they are just unhappy their actions had consequences. That's something that society doesn't teach them anymore.
This.

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>>50579499
You pulled this off pretty much perfect, your players are babies and dicks

>>50580063
It's possible that the BBEG in OP's story could have broken free after just 3 or 4 swords were removed, at the cost of a significant portion of his power that he'd have to work at recovering.

>Yes, fourth is free.
>I can break out now if I want
>Might have to spend a century gathering power again to get back into shape
>Whatever, I'm a cool guy and immortal, I can do it -
>Wait
>They're asking another question.
>"Uh, seventeen."
>They took out another sword
>Oh my God these guys are idiots.
>This is fantastic.

>>50579499
wait, the fuck did they think was going to happen?
"hurr, we'll get it to answer questions, stop after 11, and that last sword will keep it sealed, so we got something for nothing and the world is fine."
It's a magical seal. They're lucky they actually got answers to their questions, rather than simply releasing the monster after breaking the first seal.

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>>50580196
>>Yes, fourth is free.
>>I can break out now if I want
>>Might have to spend a century gathering power again to get back into shape
>>Whatever, I'm a cool guy and immortal, I can do it -
>>Wait
>>They're asking another question.
>>"Uh, seventeen."
>>They took out another sword
>>Oh my God these guys are idiots.
>>This is fantastic.

>>50580133
You'd think a major seal that could keep an ancient evil bound would be something that could resist a basic antimagic field.
Like it would have some properties in common between the two things.

>>50579539
>I NEED CWUUUUUUS
Fucking casual.

Show em the thread op. Or wait for the but hurt to calm a bit then explain it to them.

>>50580306
Well, I mean, but OP DID give his players two of those three clues. And the third one isn't even that big a deal when we're dealing with an illusionist.

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>>50579499
I really like this OP, fuck your players if they don't. They were dumb and for a lot of us it's fun to be told how dumb we are by the GM. They didn't take this gratefully at all.

1. NEVER fuck with an ancient evil, that's day one shit at adventurer school.

2. The ancient evil can use minor spells while sealed. That's a big reasons to stay the fuck away from it.

3. Let's think about this, if it can use minor spells while sealed with 9 swords, than wouldn't it be able to use better and better spells as swords are removed? Your players are lucky he didn't roast them after they pulled out one sword and then removed the rest by mind controlling one of them.

4. 9 orders, 9 paladins, 12 swords? Did your players ask about this at all? Maybe if the entity lied to them or something and said that some of the paladins used extra swords, but otherwise I think they were dumb.

5. How many questions did they possibly have to get answered by this thing? Also did he respond truthfully to the questions they asked? I'd be fine with him either telling the truth or lying as it would make it more interesting. If it's not the type of evil that lies, it could just say "I never said I was sealed with 12 swords."

6. How fucked are your players now that this thing is out?

Honestly I'm really impressed and I really like what you made OP. Can you give us any more details?

>>50580286
you'd think it would resist idiots pulling out the swords too, but we already failed on that one.

>>50579499
You did good, and were much more forgiving than I would have been. I would have had the evil escape even if they stopped at 8, it would just take a bit longer. Hell, I'd probably make it eventually get out if they pulled as few a three. Why the fuck would you think weakening the seal on an ancient evil isn't going to have consequences? If they only needed one sword to keep it in place they wouldn't have needed so many orders to seal it, they would have just used the one.

>>50580378
To be fair it could have theoretically just needed one but the rest were just backup/precautionary measures.

Either that or all the orders wanted to have a hand in it for symbolic reasons.

Still no matter the reason its not something you wanted to have fucked with, still waiting on the OP to tell us what sort of questions they asked it.

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>>50579499
You might want to show your players this sign.

>>50580464 >>50579499
Fuck it, print out that sign and tape it to the front of your DM screen, OP.

>>50579499
>the evil proposes that for every question asked, the PCs have to pull out one sword

1. What kind of fucking idiot makes a deal with an ancient evil that's sealed away?
2. What information could POSSIBLY be so valuable that anyone would even consider loosing the bonds on an ancient evil?
3. How do the players know it wasn't outright LYING to them?
4. Did the players consider that removing even ONE might put them into terrible peril?

>>50580350
They got their info from a wannabe-paladin vampire knight who was around the times the sealings happened. There was a short exposition part but I let them ask questions about the event.
They knew It MIGHT use SOME minor spells but I never really specified anything around that.
Upon seeing the 12 swords they asked nothing. I guess they went "welp, 12 IS a popular magic number" and just went with It. I mean, they didn't know what the seal looks like, the vampire never told them as he wasn't at the exact scene and had no idea himself.

The evil guy was 100% thruthful, however I made sure to speak in a way that every answer would introduce two more problems and questions

I let them get the fuck out of there. The thing wasn't that interested in killing some random shmucks, but now that the Big Bad is back, the whatever has left out of the ancient orders would surely want to beat the shit out of anyone responsible.

>>50580586
>they didn't know what the seal looks like
They knew there was a seal. There was swords sticking in the dude.
I feel like basic addition should be something you don't need to spoonfeed people.

>>50580350
Yeah. The only way more than 9 swords shouldn't raise an alarm is if one of the Paladin orders was known for dual wielding.

>>50580586
Not knowing anything about the seal made this whole affair all the more dangerous, honestly. You don't know how much abuse this thing can take. You don't know if removing even one sword will break it. You know nothing of this fucking thing. Why would you tamper with it at the behest of the imprisoned?

>>50580015
Hey Mantorock.

>>50580586
Did they have good reason to believe it would be truthful, or did they just blindly trust the ancient evil and get lucky?

>>50580646
Assuming it was D&D, the logical conclusion would be that it can only cast cantrips, and each sword was sealing a level of spell. Removing more than one basically garuntees its freedom, since then it'll have enough spells so when the next group comes down he can illusion himself as an angel trapped by demonic swords, or just charm then into removing more. Any more than that and he's free even faster.

>>50580628
Most paladins actually use hammers, maces, and polearms.

Only one sword was real.

>>50580855
wrong thread, please ignore

>>50580701
I gave them the info they wanted. The whole thing went so smooth for me (or the A.Evil, idk) It would feel unfair to lie to them.
I mean, they had this whole rather dangerous trip to the frozen north and stuff and besides, the big bad had no reason to fed them bullshit.

Which makes me remember.
They did this as a big quest for our Warlock's sub-quest. The story goes that some third entity got into the warlock''s soul for unknown reasons and the PC gets his spells from him who in turn gets his powers from the actual Old One. They wanted to know what and how and why and figured out that only someone really powerful and evil would know the specifics.
So I gave them this scenario.
When the question "how do I get rid of It" turned up, the Big Bad rather seriously asked If he tried to see any competent priest already.

This question created several seconds of silent "...fuck". I thought they would bail out right there but several swords in, nothing really happened so they kept going

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>>50580131
>hiding in the 27th hour of the day

That is some witching hour shit right there. Could normal people experience the "extra" hours, or did they just freeze until the new day began? This actually sounds pretty cool.

>>50580956
>the Big Bad rather seriously asked If he tried to see any competent priest already.

So...in fact, what I posted here, >>50580196, is in fact more or less how it all went down.

You need to seriously play up this guy's snark. make him David Spade as an ancient evil.

>>50580956
lol, did they at least roll sense motive or whatever? "Nothing's gone wrong so far, so we might as well ask more questions."

>>50580956
I'm still confused why they needed 9 questions, and if they as a group have the collective IQ of room temperature.

OP your group is dumb as bricks and I love what you did. I am especially stoked because I have a much lower stake situation that I will totally be stealing this for.

There should be more DMs like you

>>50579499
Good work OP. I appreciate these kinds of problems as a player.

>>50580956
>the Big Bad rather seriously asked If he tried to see any competent priest already.

Kek. I like the big bad a lot more than your players.

>>50579499
The first thing that came to mind was "9 orders, but 12 swords? Why?" so I give you props on that much. Seems hard to ignore to me.

Not rolling a d12 or scripting out "sword 7" or whatever was an illusion was a bit of mistake though.

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>the evil proposes that for every question asked, the PCs have to pull out one sword

I'd expect shit to hit the fan with a vengeance at sword one.

>>50579827
Everyone thinks that until their friend burns to death because they tjought they were on fire.

>>50581043
Well, there was some other extra suff worth asking.
And truthfully, I might have been a little dickish with how I phrased the answers
>what's wrong with me
>>you got your spells though an agent. A third entity that resides in your soul
>what for
>>he uses you as an anchor to this world, a beacon that maintains his avatar
>does this mean [partly irrelevant]
>>yes, but there's [a factor]
>what factor
and so on

also, the very first question that was asked was
are you the [big bad] himself?

I still feel a bit guilty. They are still pretty new to this whole DnD thing, but several long sessions in, I thought they would handle something like that. I still feel kind of guilty

Did they at least get to keep the swords they pulled out? what are their stats?

>>50581190
You can't make this shit up

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>>50581190
>are you a bad guy?

>My lawyers have advised me not to answer that question.

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>>50580956
>but several swords in, nothing really happened so they kept going

Hey, we're fifty yards past the sign and nothing has happened. This doesn't seem so dangerous after all.

>>50581190
Having read that, it seems like you don't even need the 3 illusory swords because your players are so easy to manipulate.

If you want to retcon it to there actually being 12 orders and 12 paladins, and 12 swords, and they just leave after removing 9, the big bad still gets free because some other schmuck comes in and gets charmed into removing the last swords because its power has grown significantly due to your players' actions.

Alternatively, it doesn't break free immediately and in front of them, and instead waits for them to leave. Leave it ambiguous on whether they freed it just enough so it could free itself completely, or if it tricked them and was free from the moment they removed one sword.

>>50581329
>Remove all swords
>It just sits there
>"Well are you going to leave or something? Didn't we just free you?"
>"Yeah, you freed me with the first one, I've just been getting stronger."
>What
>"I appreciate the help, you can take your leave now. Got a lot of work to do. Probably don't tell the paladins because they're going to tear your heads off. Maybe I can interest you in a job?"

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>>50579499
>>50580131
I like both these ideas. Y'all are cool GMs with stupid players.

>>50581000
People froze but were aware, then forgot about it. Sometimes they kept a glimpse. Farther from the 24th the hours became more alien, and the likelihood of remembering anything from 30th hour onwards was pretty much zero for normals, even if they hadn't slept for a week.

27th was close enough that the BBEG could still affect people it wanted to and be "remembered". The players did reason eventually that the hour they were looking for had to be below 50 for that reason. Suppose their sense of logic was better than perception/memory/attention span.

It was fun, though I did not do that great of a job at creating the atmosphere. It ran a bit more like a horror-mystery-detective than just horror. I suppose I gave players too much knowledge of some things, because I had trouble coming up with interesting challenges otherwise.

Horror is hard.

>>50581440
>Horror is hard.
You gotta step up the meta fuckery. Describe something, then deny ever describing it.

"You enter the shop. The shopkeeper gives you a smile with his two mouths."
"What?"
"The shopkeeper smiles at you."
"Two mouths?"
"No, she's just got one."

If the players feel in control, they won't feel horror. Horror is absence of control. Things just happen and they have no idea why, for what reason, or what they can do to make it stop.

>>50581501
you are an absolute madman.

I love this idea.

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>>50581190
>are you the [big bad] himself?
>Jesus H Ramirez these guys

Homer: Are you really the head of the Kwik-E-Mart?
Guru: Yes.
Homer: Really?
Guru: Yes.
Homer: You?
Guru: Yes. I hope this has been enlightening.
Apu: Bu—
Guru: Thank you. Come again.

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>>50581440
I am totally stealing this, with a twist.

I want a magical artifact coin for reasons. While attuned to the coin the wearer has a 50/50 chance of experiencing an "extra hour" after midnight. So, midnight comes around, the coin flips of its own accord, if heads the world freezes and you can move around, if tails nothing happens. At the end of the extra hour, the coin flips again, offering another shot, and so on until tails.

The current bearer has figured out how to "bank" the extra hours, and trigger them at a midnight of his or her choosing.

So, the coin is what triggers the extra hours, but there may be ways to experience them without holding the coin.

>>50581523
Do it a few times and they'll get paranoid as fuck. If they don't question the discrepancies, step it up until they're walking through an ever-changing horror-town.

I've personally found that descriptions of body horror (like horrible monsters and such) only go so far, and eventually the players themselves just get desensitized to it. If you want to go even further, try to find out the things that make the players themselves (not their characters) uncomfortable and include those things in the game. Rotten teeth, eye trauma, burning flesh, various bugs or snakes, wading through sewage, that sort of thing.

You could also do deja-vu sequences where the same things keeps happening and it always turns out the same no matter what they do, but it's harmless (until the moment it's real). Usually works best if you set it up in advance, with similar descriptions every time, and then you put it in for real, and the players realize it's real, and that's when it becomes truly terrifying because their nightmare is alive.

>>50579499
Are you sure you're not GMing for a group of jRPG protagonists?

>>50579499

How much did you stress the number 9? I feel like if I were a player in that game I'd be pretty upset with you but realize pretty quickly that that was a pretty important detail that the party had overlooked. Overall it definitely seems like the sort of detail that _is_ easy to overlook but in hindsight someone should have seen it coming. They might also be upset with themselves for overlooking something that while easy to miss at the time seems obvious in hindsight. See if they're still super upset after a couple other sessions maybe?

>>50581769
Even Jrpg protagonists don't tend to get away with that level of stupid.

how many times in JRPG's have the players unwittingly unsealed a great evil? And in how many of those is it simply because they had no way of knowing this would happen?

The party knew, continue'd, and fucked up. They are officially more inept than a JRPG protag group, and that is sad.

>>50581778
You would have no right to be upset even if the number 9 was never mentioned. You are literally pulling swords out of an ancient evil that was told to have been sealed away, what the fuck is wrong with you? Do you not see how fucking stupid of a choice that is?

>>50580236
I literally laughed out loud. Imagine how pumped the monster was when they asked question number 9.

>>50581925
Given these guys...

"Right, so I think that's everything. Is that everything?"

>>50580956
You need to make Mr. Evil a recurring NPC who follows around the party to take advantage of their obvious incompetence without ever hurting them.

Thread consensus is your players are retarded children who are mad cause you didn't spoon feed them "Babby's first deal with the devil".

Show them this thread and tell them to shut the fuck up and think more critically in the future.

>>50581703
Time freezing for everyone else and then starting up again normally fails to exploit what is good about the idea. There are infinite hours in each day but also you wake up in the morning after the infinite hours of the previous day. Is there an emergent feature of the increasing instability of each hour that causes time to reset/the timeline to be deleted/the universe to break? Is there an entity/rule that goes "That's enough of Time World, morning now?" You can keep poking it, but since your brain gets soft countered into defacto nonfunctionality after a certain point you can only sit on the surface of the gigantic weird thing and try to mine +2 swords out of it to deal with your tiny surface problems.

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>>50579499
Honestly? You did give them enough clues and you gave them chances to figure it out. They decided fucking around and playing fire with a powerful bad guy was a good idea.

They were flirting with disaster and they should have known it. Nicely done. Just remember, fail forward

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>>50579499
>Literally making a deal with the devil because you think you can outsmart it
>90% of human cultural output for the past 8 millennia says this is a bad move that always ends in your soul/face being consumed by a terrifying abomination you underestimated.

Nope, fucking deserved it. I hope the ancient evil TPKs them.

>>50582349
nah, it wouldn't make sense for it to always end with soul consuming
the devil wants the occasional mortal to win, I mean if there's 100% chance of loss folks might not be to eager about the whole practice, but 99.99%, and the illusion of it being skill based? Now that's something people are willing to try.

So the devil lets the occasional slightly more clever than usual guy get the better of him, swears his bloody vengeance (which never happens) and ensures he gets back to town to brag about it, then collects the souls of the 100 idiots who think they're going to be him.

>>50582246
Ya, but I am not running a horror game.

I like the idea that the extra hours are like folds in time, we usually just "step" over them and continue on. Things can totally get weirder the more you delve. Maybe The Coin is just one manner of delving.

I think I'll run it that things get weirder the further you delve into the extra hours; you need access to some kind of magic to not just skip over the extra time; but ditch the mental blocks. So, you need magic to open the extra time and it gets tougher to continue the further into Deep Time you go.

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>>50582112
Well. thanks to one of PC being the greedy idiot, the party now proceeds to the city full of paladins.
I was thinking that they might force the party to help them deal with this mess, only to see the party being warmly welcomed by the Bad.

But getting arrested and sentenced for being a bunch of fuck-ups and getting bailed by the Bad is also a tempting idea.
Something like
>Hey kids, to get outta this Paladin Prison, ya have to break several walls to the north-east
>Why? We will work as a distraction for each other, dividiing their forces. Have those magic scrolls and be thankful I'm not killing you.
Several scrolls related to Illusions. Invisibility. One of these is disguised to be some aoe spell. Maybe Gate.
Also, north-west is the order's main altar.

Would that work?

>>50582397
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9uk9IcoQ0w

>>50582477
God yes. Make the pcs help the ancient evil further his plan.

At this point they deserve a bad end for being whiny bitches.

>>50582520
>The Devil didn't get Johnny's soul on account of Pride

>>50582477

Hmmmm. What's the party? And whats the old evils schtic?

>>50579499

You deserve those fuckin' dubs

That's wonderful, OP. I'm actually jealous. The clues and warnings were there, beyond the usual "dealing with evil" dangers. Your players should stop being whiny bitches and accept the fact that good adventurers (the ones that live) pay more attention to details.

Plus, any adventurers dumb or greedy enough to weaken a seal on an evil being in exchange for information, which could easily be silken lies on account of it's ancient evilness, deserves to get fucked.

>>50582477

Alternatively rather than just imprisoning the pcs the pallys swear them to a redemption crusade and stick them with a watcher or a binding magical contract. You let it out you gotta help deal with it kinda deal, if you want them to be slightly more on the mercy side of things.

>>50582477
It sounds like getting stuck between prison and helping an ancient evil will definitely rub them the wrong way. While this may be the fate they deserve, it isn't the fate that will make them or you happy, as they will complain and you will likely feel bad. Though, I could be wrong. It might just be feeling like they were tricked.

I'd enjoy it, but they sound like they want to be the Big Damn Heroes, so you might want to go with making them help the paladins recapture it for the sake of peace at the table.

>>50582680
Imagine trying to explain the situation to the Paladins...

>>50582716
"First, you gotta promise you won't get mad."

>>50582745

"You woke up Shaggarath?! Why?! Why did you wake up Shaggarath?! GOOD PEOPLE ARE NOT NAMED SHAGGARATH, WAS THIS NOT A CLUE?!"

>"Well, we really needed - "

"WHERE THE NINE SWORDS STICKING OUT OF HIS ASS NOT A HINT?!"

>"We needed to know about this thing possessing the party's warlock!"

"DID YOU NOT CONSIDER A PRIEST?!"

>"Y'know, funnily enough, that's what he said..."

>>50582745

Best way to piss someone off from the get go right there. Whenever you hear that you just know the next words out of their mouths are gonna make you wanna grab them by the throat and bang their heads against a wall until you put them out of your misery.

>>50582640
Party's level six, with Bard(3)/Warlock(3), Ranger, PunisherPaladin and a Battlemaster.

>>50582690
Oh, that's valid. I guess I could say that the Big Paladin told them to spend a night in a cell before they get a chance to be useful.
That would give them a choice. Stay obediently or go full rebel.

Actually, If I don't think of anything exceptional, I'll just leave that one for a few sessions before the rumors of the Cold Fires and Endless White start spreading. Big Bads's shtick was supposed to be winter and ice demons but now I might actually add illusions to this

>>50580196

I salute you, anon.
Good shit.

>>50582825
Don't open with a "you" statement. It makes people defensive.

Probably open with, "Let's promise to hear the whole story first"

>The paladin smites you the moment you mention that you talked to Shaggarath

>>50582807
"Look, this may seem bad, but you didn't even put up a single sign, so this is like, 75% your fault. Now, we're willing to leave that all in the past here. No need to toss blame around. Just... just direct us to the nearest priest, yeah?"

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>>50583041

>>50582520
yup, that's how it works, he goes back to town with a golden fiddle he won from the devil, everyone is amazed and course jealous because that much gold could really help them

then the guy who thinks he's pretty good at juggling challenges the devil, turns out lucifer can juggle 12 balls at the same time through clever use of his tail and collects a soul, but course the strongest guy in town thinks he can wrestle the devil to the ground, instead ol' red expertly floors the poor feller, because the town aint exactly large, and the girl who thinks she's good at singing? well she only thinks that way cause her mom and pops don't have the heart to tell her otherwise.

That's 3 souls for the price of 1 golden fiddle, which as far as the devil's concerned, is a good deal

Sorry, they're surprised and mad that they fucked with something big'n'evil and now it's loose?

Maybe they should quit being evil-enabling shitheads.

>>50583334
The devil probably still gets Johnny's soul for the sin of Pride.

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>>50580131
GM Rules numbers one, three and seven apply:

YOUR PLAYERS WILL NEVER DO THE THING YOU EXPECT THEM TO DO. EVER.

>>50581135
>Not rolling a d12 or scripting out "sword 7" or whatever was an illusion was a bit of mistake though.

But that instantly gives it away and the players don't have to work to figure it out at all.

>>50583644
>Mr. A. Evil tells them the order to pull out the swords.
>Says they are trapped to kill if taken out in the wrong order.

That could even be true.

>>50581000
>>50580131
>>50581440
Wait, go back to the part where there are hundreds of hours in a day.

Sounds like a dick move to me.

>>50583671
They removed nine, read that again, NINE of the seals keeping the thing in place. All of them. ALL OF THEM. Shit mang, even without the illusion, removing nine out of the twelve seals keeping a monster in check is a stupid as fuck move that should release it.

Just imagine a more mundane scenario. For each question answered, you will remove a bar from a guy's prison cell door. There is twelve bards and you remove NINE. NINE. NINE NINE NINE. He will fucking walk out, you crazy doofus. Fuck.

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>>50580586
>the whatever has left out of the ancient orders would surely want to beat the shit out of anyone responsible.
Icing on the cake ought to have been the Big Bad empowering the PCs for helping him.

>>50582112
> Ancient evil cultists think the PCs are the ancient evil lieutenants.
> "How can we serve, enlightened ones?"

>>50581710
One of my players is terrified of underwater stuff to the point she won't even play the underwater stuff in Lara Croft which is her favorite vidya.
I plan on using this against her.

>>50583664
if you pull out the swords in the wrong order something terrible happens

something terrible also happens if they pull them out in the right order but technically, that's not a lie

>>50579544

That feels like metagaming though unless your characters have run up against this sort of thing before and/or suspicious by nature

>>50582853
You'd think willingly pulling seals out of a big bad's prison would be enough to make a paladin fall.

That probably would have been the way to go. As soon as the last one comes out, the paladin falls. The only way for him to come back is to help the paladin orders reseal the big bad. The paladin order prepares to smite them for doing that shit, but the guy's patron deity pulls a divine intervention and tells the non-retarded paladins to let this be his path to redemption, or something like that.

>>50579696
Just make it be a plot twist to where he's illusion heavy as fuck now and hes so "unsealed" he cast an illusion of himself being freed. He's not actually free, he just wants the party to think he is.

Then come up with some gambit that his illusion will send them on to actually free him.

Bretty good thread

10/10 read

Like the idea op

>>50580661
"Effluvial grime"

>>50581190
I wouldn't man. I think it gives the big bad a sense of personality with how he answers questions by probing more questions. It's how I think sealed evil would actually try to escape. By giving them more reasons to pull swords.

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>>50580661
>>50584804
Mantorok is basically the Dude, he abides.

Spends a billion years on Earth and doesn't bother nobody, doesn't consume humanity, doesn't turn the Earth into a death metal cover art, just chills out.

Then when the other beings from beyond the stars are plotting to crash the party and manage to seal him into a slow death in a hole surrounded by only his own filth he works a little cunning with the assistance of humanity and adds a little time bending to make them all kill each other at the same time as a last 'fuck you guys' on his death bed.

>>50579499
What would you have done if they had just NOPEd out at that point and decided information was not worth pulling out any of the swords?

>>50585179
Gone along with the campaign as planned?
He seems to be surprised the PCs fell for it.

>>50579753
Same

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>>50580068
>Even if there weren't illusionary swords involved, if there is more than one X being used to seal the ancient evil, thinking that you can just remove any number of those without consequences is dumb enough they deserve this.

This.

>They have no idea how the swords worked
>They had no idea how many of the swords were truly necessary to keep the thing bound
>They actually based their information of how many would keep it bound BY ASKING THE ANCIENT EVIL THAT WAS SEALED
>WHICH, JUST BECAUSE APPARENTLY DUMB-AS-SHIT PLAYERS NEED EMPHASIS, HAS EVERY GODDAMN REASON TO LIE
>LITERALLY knew it was sealed by 9 paladin orders

Fuck em, common sense and minor foreshadowing should've had them seeing this shit from a mile away. They're retards, plain and simple.

>>50581842
>how many times in JRPG's have the players unwittingly unsealed a great evil?
Like 50% of them.

>>50585558
Yeah and it really bites, you can see how badly it is going to end but you as the player aren't allowed to stop it.

Ooh, also those times in Jrpg's where something that is part of a set of super important mystical objects is sealed away and the heroes decide they HAVE TO GET IT before the villain does... and then after fighting their way through the sealed dungeon and beating the boss the bad guys just drop in and snatch the mcguffin out from under them in the final room now that they've done all the work of unsealing it.
Seems like alot of those times it would be better is the heroes just staked out the place and prevented any villains from going inside.

>>50583644
If the players are randomly plucking at swords, a d12 roll isn't unreasonable.

Scripting it is if you honestly planned for them to have overwhelming clues before doing it. That is a narrative call on the GM's part, like if he wanted them to realize they fucked up but didn't want to derail the campaign with the whole thing.

>>50579499
>9 orders
>12 swords

Oh man, that's devious. Definitely should've had a chance for them to end up pulling an illusionary sword, but that's still great.

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>the evil proposes that for every question asked, the PCs have to pull out one sword
I'm sorry, but this is immediately what came to mind.

>>50584305
Nah, it's a magical seal, and they have reason to believe this thing can use magic. What ancient evil isn't trying to trick you? Come now.

>>50584929
Man, now I have the urge to put a Mantorok in my games. Just "there's this gigantic Eldritch horror lurking below the surface.... chilling. I think the cults have nicknamed him Steve."

No, you're not 'THat' gm. Every party needs someone who can detect magic, it's one of the most basic rules of fantasy tabletop.

If it's magic, shit. What kind of magic? Illusion? Dispel the illusions. AHA! Got you, demon.

>>50583967
>and this is how we end up with the bard becoming an avatar of slannesh

>>50585754
worse yet, when it is snatched and the heroes just stand around watching as the villains laugh, monologue, then fuck off with the artifact.

>>50580306
>cwuuuuuus
Wat?

>>50587739
Infantilization of the word "clues"

>>50579499
No, fuck your players.

>>50579499
>'Hey so this guy is evil'
>Let's weaken his bindings!
>OH NO OUR ACTIONS HAD UNFORSEEN CONSEQUENCES

I mean, that's a pretty good trap, and it's a perfect start to a new quest to fix their fuck up. Even if I'd fallen for it, I'd be pretty happy about how it went down because this is a good story element.

>>50587753
I see

This is a 10/10 thread

>>50579499

>bloo bloo bloo my players are mad at me because i made a mistake

its fine man. Oversights happen. IF you want my two cents your players will probably enjoy an event that isn't quite in their control. that's what makes this sort of game fun and non-linear.

They'll get over it, you'll fuck up less. just keep the game going and try to have fun :)

>>50583832

i love this so much

>>50579499
>>50581190

I like this. You can use it as a reason for why the big bad ignores them. He thinks they're dumb asses and no threat to him, so he focuses on being a horrible evil instead of immediately killing them.

>>50581501

I've been working on a modern oneshot where the players have to stay in a "haunted" house when theres really nothing wrong with the house but i'm going to randomly give a couple of them schizophrenia and make them certain there are monsters.

my group is full of swing first ask questions later players. so I know that just giving them tiny bits to work on will have them thinking of every type of ghost or horror there is.

>>50588557

I have to be honest, I'm not much of a "swing first ask questions later" kind of guy, but I'd be pretty disappointed in a twist like that. Aren't you worried one of your players will make a joke and inadvertently call out the twist in the first five minutes?

>>50579859
>make no alliance with this dumb-ass thing and give it absolutely zero sacrifices
>it still somehow gains power because of my colluding with it and wrecks the world

That's what made me quit the game. It was fun, too.

>>50588673

i'm trying to work on the introduction. i'm planning to make it really immersive. it's a one shot so if it doesn't work out, meh.

theres always the option of making an actual monster/haunt and turn "schizophrenia" into "spiritually sensitive"

>>50579499
That's a grade A move

maybe this
>>50579696
>did not give them a chance to pull out one of the illusionary swords rather than a real sword.

But I for one love it when I as a player get stung by my own stupidity.

>>50588789
Will it feature Boston Brand?

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>>50582807
>"Y'know, funnily enough, that's what he said..."

>>50580081
>What questions could POSSIBLY have been so vital that they thought pulling out NINE of the things keeping an ancient evil bound were a good idea?

Best question so far.

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>>50580956
>I thought they would bail out right there but several swords in, nothing really happened so they kept going

>>50584305

>It's metagaming to assume the sealed entity was sealed for a reason

More proof that "metagaming" is the bleating wail of shitty GMs mad when players avoid their screw jobs.

>>50581842
>They are officially more inept than a JRPG protag group
Nah man, they're just playing Fairy Fencer F.

>>50586829
underrated image

>>50589573
Fairy Fencer F protagonists weren't that dumb.

That was Bravely Default's protagonists.

>>50588153
It's not a mistake, you pathetic lickspittle.

>>50579499

I agree with >>50580068

I can see why the illusion thing would be kind of sour to a player, but in all honesty, if I had been running the same encounter in your position, I probably would have been rolling a check behind the screen every time a sword was removed to see if the ancient evil could break out (with the check gradually getting easier as more swords are taken out).

Your players are still fucking idiots

>>50583545
We don't know, the sequel ends before we hear the results of their second duel.

>>50583545
You could consider it Pride, but you could also consider it Courage in the face of evil.

>>50589999
Quads doesn't change the fact that Johnny said he was the best that ever was.

How do you sealed ancient evil, /tg/? Seems like the thread to ask.

My party's rapidly veering into causing the apocalypse, so I've started prepping a sequel campaign in the aftermath. I'm thinking of using the previous BBEG as a sealed ancient evil. He's nailed to the edge of the universe to replace the sky, after it gets destroyed.

>>50582397
The Devil is a literal carny.

Cool.

>>50590017
But is it a sin of pride to state a fact, if Johnny really is the best that ever was?

>>50589635
To be fair, it was only Edea and Ringabel who were completely retarded. Tiz and the other girl weren't that bad at all.

>>50582520
This >>50582625
the devil won the contest winners soul is his and he'll claim it when he dies, but Jonny gets to brag to everyone how he won and how THEY can win too

>>50590105
Yes, there's a reason humility is a virtue.

>>50590017
Facing the actual Devil. The only thing I'd consider actual Pride would be accepting the duel in the first place, not bragging afterward. Besides, it's the Devil, everyone hates the Devil, you'd think people in Heaven would be "nah, that's cool, but why'd you take the bet in the first place?"

>>50590036
>8 giant magical seals
>scattered across the continent
>each one on a different Colossal sized golem.
>Including a giant crab, squid, flying serpent, humanoid and 4 others I can't remember.
>The golems protect the deal until they can no longer move.
>The BBEG is in the center of the circle formed by the seals
> "chained " by 8 ethereal chains linked to each seal

It's basically Shadow of the Colossus in tabletop form. Myths and legends about these Colossi had eventually degraded into "you acquire an ancient power if these seals are found and broken." My players took the bait and freed the BBEG, who thanked them, realigned the stars and planes, and ushered in 8000 years of darkness.

>>50583334
Wait, where does all that come from?

>>50589999
Doesn't matter, since making a deal with the Devil is a mortal sin in and of itself. Do not pass golden gates, do not collect an eternity of bliss in heaven.

>>50590182
But so is Honesty.

If somebody who is legitimately the best at something is asked if they're the best at something, your system would mean they would sin no matter what they answered.

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>>50590241
Wait a minute, though, even Faustus got the benefit of an Angel telling him to repent.

Plus, a deal with the Devil has no weight in heaven.

>>50590331
Just say your good at it.

>>50582415
Dude, you could get into some memento shit right there.

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>>50590193

>Dormin
>Evil

Pick one

Or keep drinking Emon's kool-aid

>>50590386
Yeah repenting is a get out of jail free card.

So you would have to be genuinely sorry that you beat the Devil in a competition.

>>50590395
That would be both dishonest and prideful. Go away, Satan.

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To be fair, OP's group sounds really annoying.
You gave them all the hints necessary and instead of being smart and leaving it alone, because anyone with a brain says "Eldritch Horror wants to make a deal. FUCK NO!", instead they played along and released it.
You don't even have to call it metagaming at that point, how many stories of people making deals with evil are there in your world? There's got to be some. We tell them to our children as bed-time stories. Someone in the group should have known better.

To be honest, OP's set up sounds pretty boss. Would definitely love to play in it.

>>50590036
>How do you sealed ancient evil, /tg/?
As something far out of the players' league. Very biblical and guaranteed to stay sealed until the apocalypse starts, usually because it was released. I have three of them in the setting I'm working on now, based on Leviathan, Behemoth, and Ziz, with elements of Jormungandr, dragons in general, and the phoenix respectively, although I'm not so sure on that last one. The Behemoth equivalent is sealed similarly to OP's evil, with 8 javelins pinning it to the ground.

>>50582520

That's about the worst version of that song i've ever heard, but the vids alright all things considered.

>>50584205
As long as she knows she's playing a horror game, yeah that's great. Probably lose a player if it comes out of nowhere, though.

Tons of people love watching scary movies and going to haunted houses, but only the most masochistic of them would describe being kidnapped, blindfolded, hogtied, gagged, and then left in the woods for 6 hours for a prank as a good time. Even if both are essentially harmless.

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>>50590036
I've been tossing around this idea for a while, and am still working on fleshing it out.

>World is plagued by spirits/monsters/demons/whatever
>They're powerful, and cannot be killed by any known means
>No matter what is done to them they come back within days to hours none the worse for wear
>Only one thing seems to have any long term effect on them
>Sealing magic can trap them for decades, centuries, even indefinitely
>However, you usually need something to trap them in
>If it's a noun, you can probably seal something in it
>This eventually reaches a point where you can't take two steps without tripping over some sealed evil
>Fast forward to the setting's present
>Something has changed (new weapon/magic/divine gift/chosen ones/something)
>Whatever happened, the former immortals are suddenly very much killable

The idea would be for the PCs to go around unsealing monsters and kicking their teeth in. Monster of the week format, with the overarching plot involving an Ancient Evil that will likely break its seal soon. Otherwise things go at the PC's pace, letting them exorcise old castles, disenchant cursed items, cleanse sealing grounds, or remove Naruto's specialness at their leisure. I think it could be a fun premise for a game.

>>50588038
"Unforeseen" is a...strong...word in this situation. I mean, OP's players didn't see it, but from the sound of things OP's players' brain cells would have died of loneliness were they not regularly in close proximity to each other.

>>50591085
Oh hey, Thundrbolt Fantasy

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>>50591134
>Thundrbolt Fantasy

Wikipedia's plot summary isn't extensive enough for me to see the similarities, and Tvtropes says it's the weapons that are sealed instead of the demons. Can you elaborate?

Also,
>Gen Urobuchi

Huh.

>>50591085
That's a good premise for an adventure setting.

>Ancient Era couldn't kill any of the evils
>Sealed them all up everywhere
>Several places abandoned as ruins due to demonic leakages causing bad weather/attracting monsters
>Big even ushers in new Era
>Now adventurers are paid to both kill the sealed evils AND free up formerly abandoned places for settlement.

>>50590036
Although she's not evil, she is Chaotic Neutral, which is basically evil in most of /tg/'s eyes, so here's what I got:
>Split into two parts
>First part is her body, which has been converted into a size-class huge crystal
>Said crystal is in the possession of a beholder that uses the crystal to create dimensional rifts into the lairs of other beholders to invade and kill them
>Second part is her consciousness, which has a humanoid form
>Said consciousness is currently imprisoned on Agathys, the 6th layer of Carceri, by Apomps the Three-Sided one, where she rests in a cell as apart of Apomps' trophy collection of unique creatures
>Consciousness' body must touch the huge crystal that is her body while both items are in the Far Realms

Of course, splitting creatures into even more "conceptual" parts could make for an interesting quest for the villains to take and for the players to stop.

>>50581000
check out persona 3 if you're interested in this concept

>>50588038
yeah i don't see the big deal, as long as it's not an instantaneous party wipe or anything you're not being a dick. what are you supposed to do? introduce this evil guy and then just leave it alone?

>>50583041
that's valid criticism. put up a fence or something. who seals the big evil in the land and then just leaves?

>>50584305
it's a sealed demon with 12 swords sticking out of it, it's not there to hang out.

>>50590036
Got different levels of entities, but seeing as there's a massive, potentially harvestable source of dark energy in this particular land, there's plenty that have come there and are not sealed too.

Several Immortals who have some knowledge of it, that alone making them dangerous, along with everything else they've learned.

Several demon-tier lesser evils, mostly sealed or bound, because no one has been able to find a way to deal with them yet.

A semi-slumbering eldritch evil, who has enslaved a nation of dwarves to tunnel to the center of the world.

Several ancient demi-gods whose powers are waning due to the dark magic.

And two ouroborous-style serpents who are dead-not-dead, and central to the problem.

>>50579859
>>Making deals with an ancient sealed evil
At Black Crusade we call it monday.

>>50579499
that anime girl will do her best!

>>50581043
Even in Celsius you're giving them a lot of credit.

>>50588753
You are being kind of dumb.

It wasn't only working through you, it had driven all the other royal heirs mad in their dreams which was the whole reason you were in a world war for succession in the first place

The actual difference is, that if you sacrifice to him his influenced forces get powered up in the endgame, since you just handed him extra power.

>>50586619
>>50586661

This.jpg

>>50590570
>To be fair

To be really fair we would have to see the session and see the players literally sit there and blank face it.

The one thing that keeps tickling the back of my brain about this whole mess is that I don't find it implausible or entirely telling that there are 12 Swords and 9 Paladin Orders.

Maybe each Order sent in 4 Paladins and most of them just fucking died
Or maybe all 9 orders managed to produce 12 swords and found Paladins to wield them

Maybe there are 9 Heroes and not 9 Orders, but then maybe 3 of them dual wielded and that's where the other 3 swords came from.

Still stupid to weaken any magical barrier on anything

>>50591451
I think this is the plot of FF5
>Sealed Everything everywhere
>Oh shit it got out
>better go beat it up with my Job Classes

>>50582246
>>50582415
guys

Guys

Extra hours is what you're think you're experiencing in sleep

It's all real

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>>50586619
A d12 is kind of a meta way to let your players know that some swords may be more important than others.

We don't know this situation was presented to the players

>alright, you go into a room, there is like a dead thing with n- Twelve swords in him. He says he'll answer a question for each sword you pull out.
>what do

or
>In a row of 4, then 5 and 3; Twelve Swords stand in the struggling flesh of some crocodilian beast
>Each sword is detailed specifically to a different god, but the 3 in the back are taller and broader in more exotic shapes
>It's body remains still though it's innards lurch and pulsate, unable to move any blade from its perch
>"For each sword you pull I will answer any question".

then at least the players could reason the 3 big swords probably seal the lionshare of his power and the other ones were just there for funsies.

>>50579499
Your players are dicks, because that sounds fucking cool and you clearly hinted at that there should only be 9 swords. Should teach them not to make a deal with the devil, and now they have a reason to go out and quest to fix the problem.

>>50579499
No You're not. Should have checked against illusions, or remembered there were 9 orders of knights.
This time, they just got played.

>>50579499
Obviously the three swords at the back were the illusions, the ones furthest out of reach.

OP, this is great and I'm totally stealing it.

If they'd have asked "how come there are 12 swords" I'd have bullshitted something about 3 archangels helpnig out.

>Incidentally, if you'd start with those I'd appreciate that
>Don't mind the flames, purely cosmetic, I assure you
>Aw shucks, I though I could finally scratch that itch!

>>50580956

God, I wish my players were that stupid sometimes.

>All these great GMs in this thread with wonderful ideasa
>I will never be as good of a GM as them
>I will never have as good of a GM as them

Damn.

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>>50586829
Made me jump to this. I think yours is a more capable villain though.

>>50579499
Did the swords have emblems of Paladin orders on them though? The numerology works out but I'm afraid you didn't establish well enough that it was significant at all - there are more than 9 people total in 9 whole orders of Paladins, so the number wouldn't be established as even being relevant and suggesting it should match until AFTER the reveal.

You could have had different emblems on each sword, then a mystery sidequest to find out who the other 3 orders must be - they investigate around and can barely find anything on it, except like one left-out pacifist order whose tenets are pretty adamant about "no fucking swords guys", one order who genuinely died-out before the date of the ancient evil, and no info on any 3rd.

>>50594424
Judging by the sound of his players, I doubt they tried a perception roll to see what was on these things.

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>>50594140
Bruh the best DM is hindsight

>>50579499
Hey OP, fucking this >>50580020

>>50579499
Yeah cause I mean, if a whole dozen of swords has been used to seal something, clearly taking out nine or eleven of them is gonna be totally safe, right? Ideally, you should have given an increasing chance to the evil to free itself for every sword they pulled out, rather.
Your party goofed hard and if they actually give you shit for that instead fo blaming their own idiocy, they deserve to be short of a GM very soon.
>>50584305
Being suspicious of everything is literally Adventuring 101. You don't need any clue to know you shouldn't trust an ancient evil, and if you actually need them it is on YOU to make the necessary legwork. As it stands, the information the GM gave were more than enough for any reasonable party to start doing some serious investigation.

>>50594471
That's more like regular description detail, given either when they look upon the thing or at the latest when they start pulling out the swords, not perception check material. I wouldn't skimp out on scene detail if my players were all too stupid to invest in perception - I want to bring atmosphere if nothing else - they would just not find hidden or obscured shit.

Same here - emblems plainly visible on their pommels, hilts, crossguards or the base of the blades. Description. If you really want to make them check specifically, you could vary its placement on each sword and mention that you don't see it on this one, at which point you could Perception/Craft/Appraise check (any would be applicable) to examine the underside, or notice so-and-so order etched their symbol small somewhere instead of prominently like the others.

I don't think that's necessary and could cause them not to get it just as easily as it could cause them to pay attention to it.

>>50590386
Faust never got that benefit in the original. Lost his soul and suffered for eternity.

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>>50579499
Fucking great idea, OP. Love that setup. The one thing you forgot is that all players are retarded and refuse to do what you intend them to do.

That said, did you ever hint at this thing being was an illusionist? I honestly think they should've gotten the idea, but you gotta tailor the level of your ideas to the intelligence of the players

>>50579499
>doing anything that might weaken the seal on an ancient evil

They deserve everything their foolish, reckless greed has brought them. If it were me GMing, bad shit would've gone down well before the 9th sword. If it takes 9 to seal it, it's silly to expect it to be safe as long as just 1 remains.

>>50594824
>If it takes 9 to seal it, it's silly to expect it to be safe as long as just 1 remains.

that...makes a lot of sense. I cant believe i didnt think this

>>50584929
What is he from?

And why is he a fertility entity?

And what does he eat?

>>50594896
On the other hand, getting them to remove all nine is pretty in-character for it. Why risk killing them before they've finished freeing it? What if it turns out one IS enough to keep it after so long?

The only thing that seems unreasonable is the GM not letting them attempt to remove any illusory swords, which he might have actually had an answer for. (I've just been skimming.)

>>50594896
Really? That's like one of the first things that stood out to me.

After removing 9 swords, the "seal" would be at only 25% strength, even if the last 3 swords were illusions, and that's ignoring any amplifying effects the swords would have on each other.

Hell, in terms of most magical circles, just making the tiniest scratch or breaking the circle is enough to cause the entire thing to fall apart. Pulling out a sword is pulling out a large portion of the circle of sealing.

Having the entire thing break on the first sword would make perfect sense too.

>For each sword you remove, you get to ask one question
>remove one sword
>"Are you the big bad?"
>"yeah, and you just broke the magic circle keeping me in place, fucking suckers"

>>50593076
So me warping around my town and having interactions oft related to games with people is not a dream?

>>50579499
Your players sound like a bunch of entitled babies desu

>>50579499
>playing games with an ancient evil, with plenty of data

Your players are just 'Chernobyl scientist' levels of dumb, OP.

>>50593076
Wait, so the reason I screamed in my sleep in the middle of the night... SHIT.

>>50595040
Clearly you're spending your extra time as the MC of an observational webcomic.

>>50579976
They would be able to check the style of magic.
"Huh, wierd, nine of the swords are wreathed in transmutation magic, but three are illusion magic."

>>50595167
Have him cover all the swords in illusion magic.

>>50591526

Obviously the big bad has follows which are capable of clearing the way but not capable of actually freeing him.

>>50595200
Why thwart them if they would have at least thought to cast Detect Magic?

>>50595331
Well it's kind of an obvious step for the big bad to take, really.

>>50579499
Op, move to upstate ny. As a player ill treat you right. They dont deserve you. Thats an amazing and clever ploy. Let me love you with dice

>>50579499
There were some weak points but the move was sweet

>>50579499
>After asking four questions the stability it right back in
>How mad would you have been

>>50595374
Yeah, I suppose so.

>>50595748
I'd do that

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OP, here.
I love you people
I never expected this kind of response, like, shit, I thought this is some very basic DM'ing and not very good at that. Many thanks for the input!

Normally, the party isn't saturday cartoon adventurers retarded.
I mean, they infiltrated the inn taken by a mercenary squad by illusioning themselves into a group of poor students who have to write a book about tactics and military culture and the act was so good I made the mercs argue about who is going to give the better wisdom.

Then again, there was a time where they tried to assassinate a vampire for his stuff without realising he is one.
Even though they were guests at his fort. He was described as a pale, white heared guy with rather modest taste in cutlery and fond of night walks. Apparently they thought he was just a weirdo elf.

Also, there's something that I didn't mention. I aimed to make the scenario look like It's an actual game. The music was very "high-stakes" and the Evil's speech pattern was supposed to gather full focus of the party. I wanted them to concentrate on the number of questions needed. After the fifth (or sixth, not sure now) I said that there is full set of 12 swords again. I had hoped at that point to make them lose the number and panic a little, but they actually remembered. The visage went back to the last number of swords and I think that this is what made them feel so secure.

>>50595748
Not at all, the swords were nice looking but otherwise not especially extraordinary. What mattered was the work of the 9 Grandmasters

>>50596454
>After the fifth (or sixth, not sure now) I said that there is full set of 12 swords again.
That really should've tipped them off right there.
You did everything right.

>>50596454
What do you mean, you people?

Also, there's no excusing dumb. Pulling even one sword out was stupid. Pulled out even more was fucktarded. Once they got to the halfway point, there was really no going back. But then, they didn't even try to go back. They carried their retardation to its full term and then complained when, instead of miscarrying at the last second, they got a beautiful little baby with Downs.

Don't feel bad for them, TC. All the signs were there. Let them take care of their little baby, even if should have been an abortion.

>>50580131
Honestly, it just depends on the players. One of the guys in my group is roughly about on my level, maybe a little less, and he INSTANTLY picks up the throw-away clues I leave behind and is constantly guessing (correctly, annoyingly enough) at the metaplot. I've had to undo years of my dumbing down just to present a plot twist that he wouldn't get at.

>>50596454
Thats why I punch all weirdo elfs in the face with my burning fists screaming
>SONO CHI NO SADAME!
just to be safe, its the only sensible precaution

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>>50579827
On this note

>>50579696
OP, do yourself a HUGE favor. If you have netflix, go and watch the movie "Oculus" RIGHT the FUCK NOW.

>>50579499
Hah, I assume that you've played Fairy Fencer.

>>50597006
Pretty sure that mirror and Room 1408 should get married. :3

>>50593986
I like it better when smart players just have random moments of sheer retard.

>Players going through a dungeon crawl
>Playing it extremely smart
>Manage to get the surprise round on EVERY single encounter they run across
>Suddenly, right at the end, they get completely defeated by a door
>It takes them SO long to get out that the big bad that was next door has already escaped out the secret tunnel and is long gone with all of the evidence

Just absolutely astounded.

>Two NPCs, one female, one male, help the party
>The chick acts lovey-dovey towards the dude, dude acts protective of the chick
>They've known each other a long time and are not siblings
I can't wait to hear the 'WTF' when I reveal they're married and have been the entire time. Everyone's just been assuming they're not.
For fuck's sake, I never even told the party the pair's last names.

>>50579499
players fault but you could have done it better
>>swords must be pulled out in specific order
>>book lies by omission
>> each sword removed increases the level of spells the book can cast
>> book doesn't tell them this fact and if they figure out they can only pull 8 swords and do that then the book can cast level 8 spells
>>can now summon a powerful creature which it can use to pull out last sword, polymorth into a somewhat weaker form and telaport away to find some new pathetic doup to pull that last out, or demand and make one of them pull the last one out against their will.

>>50597434
>Their last names, which are the same because they're married
Or I guess 'their last name'?

Wait, OP, why are they even mad?

Did they think that it wasn't going to happen?

Surely they didn't think they were going to fuck with some ancient evil they're messing with the bonds of and just walk away without anything happening, right? Either they'd push for being dumbasses and causing it to happen because it sounds fun, or they'd avoid it entirely. They couldn't honestly believe that NOTHING would happen, right?

>>50579696
Also, i don't think that from "have 9 paladin orders" they should be able to assume there should be 9 swords. They could put more to be sure.

>>50595062
It's hurtful because it's true.

>>50597480
also
if they were smart and stone walled all this
like i would be clapping for my players at this point
i would resort to my last option
they figure out only 9 swords are supposed to be there so the book upset about being tricked dispels only 3 swords, pay attention and if they remove just one sword the creature is released.
they will be all WTF and then i will have to explain to them that they might not have been the only group to have found the book. and all the swords but one were an illusion.

the only way to beat this is to destroy the book from the start. thats how i design my scenarios

come up with a premise and i try to think of all the work around and exploits and create a a diverging and converging story line for each action.
>>they try to exploit the book for gain or profit>cause the end of the world
take the time to consider work around and how to dash hopes
>>they chose to be heros and throw away their petty desires allowing for an actual succesful mission

as you can imagine being murder hobos in my campaigns result in them being the villains (whether they want to be or not) eventually ultimately with angry mobs/militias scouring the country side in an attempt to lynch and kill them.

>>50597480
>>50597839
Pardon, what book now?

>>50597689
How about we go back to "Don't remove any fucking seals from Eldritch Evils".

Honestly, I would have had plans to fuck them in increasingly severe ways from one sword onward.

1)Starting with bad dreams, to 2) terrible dreams that make them roll to not have a reduced stat for a day due to exhaustion, to 3) actual phenomena following them around and causing distractions during stressful times and voices whispering at the edge of hearing, stepping it up to 4) seeing faces of NPCs during dialogue twist and start to demand strange things of them such as "Returning to the source what you stole".

Next 5) we have them starting to ping evil to agents of Good, and non-magical NPCs noting foul smells in their presence. Number 6) is outright "Paladins are looking for you specifically" and the Pally in the party would be feeling compulsions to visit his temple for some explaining to his god. At the 7)th sword, drawing it would have washed them all in negative energy and given the BBEG the ability to try and possess whoever pulled it out to try and remove more swords, or later to try and continue to work to free him. If they reached 8) then it would set a timer for the BBEG being freed SOON like in a week or so. 9) would stay the same and have it be immediately freed.

TL;DR NO FREE RIDES FROM ELDRITCH EVILS.

>>50597896
well then "sealed evil"

i guess i was projecting
cause i the last time i used this scenario the sealed evil was a sentient book that belonged to an evil wizard along time ago and could cast all the spells written with in.
tldr
for what ever reason when i read that i saw book

>>50581501
Let my mate dm once he wasn't the best and was inconsistent with his descriptions and I kept trying to point it out in character at first he corrected himself but eventually he realised what i was doing and ran with it unitll he revealed a wizard was behind temporal anomalies or something. was bready cool

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>>50587457
I played it 20 years ago and I'm still mad.

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>>50589635
>>50579499

>>50598407
I suppose it says something about my setting that every major conflict could be explained by someone owning up and saying, "I thought it was a good idea at the time."

>>50594966
It's from Eternal Darkness. A game cube game.

I'm not sure, magic?

Everything I think.

>>50596454
>The visage went back to the last number of swords
>and I think that this is what made them feel so secure.
If you wanted to beat them over the head with it, you should have had the Ancient Evil lose count and forget an illusory sword.

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>>50598407
To this day I still cannot comprehend why BD is so well-regarded. I know that a game with good gameplay and bad writing is still a decent game, but how someone can write an entire cast who is so thoroughly fucking retarded is beyond me.

>>50590331
Nobody asked Johny. He's in fact a pretty bad winner. Like "yeah I'm great, I play the fiddle, fuck you son of a bitch". Soul straight up to hell if you ask me. The only way to do what he did and then going to heaven is to ask God for forgiveness for accepting the bet, and thanking him for letting him win.

Not to mention that the capital sins are capital not because they're worst, but because they lead you to commiting other sins. So Johny's pride fed by having defeated the devil himself will likely cause him more, and more as he grows up.

>>50592534
We don't get to that shit until Friday in Dark Heresy.
Guess we are not radical enough.

>>50590386
Only in the version softened by enlightement ideas, that never went along well with religious canon.

Don Juan also went to hell, but not in the 19th century versions.

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>>50579499
the evil demon tricked them...why, why would an ancient evil that was stuck want to get out so badly that it'd trick someone...

I might actually run the reverse of this now.

An ancient evil bound by hundreds of seals. Only one of them actually seals him. The other's are traps to kill any dumb shit that tries to free the ancient evil.

>>50590036
>presents itself as the lesser evil and/or the typical criminal working with the cops to catch another criminal
>the other dude is actually just part of his plan to be liberated

The kind of player that brags about pragmatism and how he plays complex characters beyond black/white morality always falls for this basic trick.

Don't worry op, players are dumb. I literally made a boss like creature stress that returning to its lair empty handed for the third time would result in it attacking a player.

As in I let him go to this thing and flail about twice. And let him look around the bone filled room and even notice something was fishy with the floor

AND THE FUCKER STILL WENT BACK, ALONE WITHOUT THE PARTY

AN BLAMES ME FOR KILLING HIM

fuckin kek man.

>>50580722
>Diablo 2: Freeing Baal Edition

>>50598789
Because it was competing with shit like ff13 it looks amazing in comparison.

>>50579499
>>mention last session that It was sealed by 9 paladin orders
>>mention last session that It still might be able to use minor spells
Players forget most exposition between sessions. Still utterly careless for even touching the seals on the demon, but I'm not surprised they didn't remember the 9 orders or the minor spellcasting.

>>50596797

You're a modern day narutard congratulations

>>50579499
>Nine orders
>Twelve swords

You should not be held accountable for your players' incapability to fucking count.

Continue the plotline, promise them that it'll be great and that they'll just have to trust you, give them some epic battles and when they put the thing down in the end (if they succeed), they'll love it and remember it, because you gave them a challenge.

And challenges are to be learned from.

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>>50590036
The sealed ancient evil in the game I'm running is currently on the party's "An Okay Guy" list. Or at least his astral projection is.
He wound up on this list after a "Super Mysterious Fortune Teller" dude showed up and suggested that by collecting these scrolls, they can control a turbodragon to beat down city-eating living weapon that an asshole elf prince is looking to unleash upon humanity.
Sealed Ancient Evil shows up, says Fortune Teller is full of shit, and Party members are like "Wow, he's saying what we were just thinking."
He then tells them that if they destroy these scrolls, it'll keep Mr. Fortune Teller from taking these scrolls and summoning the turbodragon to this world.
The scrolls actually are the seals keeping mister Ancient evil from going full Kung Fu Satan on the world.
They've destroyed two, and are en route to a third. Destruction of each scroll has caused an earthquake, and demons showing up to try to kill whoever's breaking the scrolls.
One player has OoC figured out the Fortune Teller's true identity an atheist who wants to kill the gods to cement his control of humanity, but has no idea why he'd want the turbodragon freed. And they're uncaring of Sealed Evil's shifting appearance each time they bust a scroll.
Pic related is his true form.

>>50598789
Let's just say people know the story is ass and like it anyway.

Still, that game's big bad's actual weakness is the seals being broken so it can properly enter that world. If you don't, it sits there invulnerable while it's minions kill you, reset the board, and try with new morons.

>>50603134
>atheist
>aknowledges gods exists and wants to kill them

That is not a fucking atheist, that's just someone who hates gods.

>>50603134
I do believe the actual word for Fortune Teller Guy is "Anti-theist". Also, if the guy needs an entire set of MacGuffins, why do they keep destroying them? It's clearly doing something fucky.

>>50603424
>that's just someone who hates gods.
the correct term is "smart person"

>>50603550
*tip*

>>50603550
Not in settings where the gods take not of this and send them to Double Hell.

>>50603424
>>50603455
I usually use the word Naytheist to describe that asshole. As to the reason for them destroying the entire set, I think they're just trying to be thorough in their supposed screwing over of Mr. Fortune. That, and Mr. Evil has proposed he has a way to deal with the superweapon that Elfpants is trying to awaken.
By eradicating the entire world.

>>50603134
>beat down city-eating living weapon that an asshole elf prince is looking to unleash upon humanity.
What level are your PCs that you're threatening them with the Filisnogos?

>>50603550
>"Hey there are these nigh-omnipotent beings who grant special powers to people who worship them extra hard and empower warriors to smite people in their name."
>They promise an afterlife that there is empirical proof of to their followers.
>Better hate them and try to kill them for no reason.
>Smart person.

>>50604308
Well I assume there's a pantheon of gods, and probably none of them give their shit for free.

Say, a god of war requires conflict, your family dies as a result of a war instigated by said god, get butthurt and wants gods dead.

>>50603875
Right now? 8. When it'll actually be a threat? 13, provided they survive the intervening mayhem, including the colossal battle brewing between the Empire and Azur.
One of the PCs is an Ebudan Neph whose destiny is to slap Gaul's shit with Mjolinr. She's got the hammer, so she's halfway there.
And I kinda gotta step up my game against the other PC, considering his combat rolls are almost always exploding and his base Psi-railgun damage is 160.

>>50604436
What did you start at?

>>50604512
One. It's been two years IRL time.
They first encountered Nerelas, Omega, and Barney at around 5.
They still don't know about Sylvanus' true goal of the Eye of God.

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>>50582520
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbEwUTjKwLU

I've always liked the idea that this song is about Johnny's girlfriend saving his ass after he underestimated a fairy.

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>>50607479
Obligatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6GMcLsQCH9Y

>>50598789
Well, just speaking for myself, the music was fantastic, the plot twist was above average for JRPG stupid plot twists, and the whole 'going through the multiverse seeing slightly changed worlds and trying desperately to NOT fuck them up' part felt pretty fun.

Also the combat system and classes were above average for JRPGs.

>>50579499
>mention last session that It still might be able to use minor spells
now
Then party should've been suspicious.
Besides, an evil gaining power is just a new plot hook. I don't see the problem from a player perspective, but next time just in case I'd prepare plans that involve the evil NOT awakening just so there is a choice, not that I know for sure you haven't.

>>50579499
Holy shit yes!
I want to play in your campaign.

>>50579499
>>50579696
Nah you did good, foreshadowed correctly in an original manner. As for the illusion part the illusion is assumed to exist within the field of forgettablity. So unless they specifically say they interact with one it's assumed the caster is able to subtly alter the outcome enough to have it avoided.

As for your players play stupid games win stupid prizes.

>>50579499
>>50579696
From your limited provided info. It seems like you handled it gracefully, assuming you communicated its ability to use some magic and that there were nine men who sealed it away.

If the players didn't seem at all leery about the twelve swords, in any way. Then they're just being manchildren.

It's a bit of a communication thing, though. Unless you provided us actual session logs or a recording of the session, we have no idea of knowing whether or not this is a well executed moment or high impact stale memes from the dimension of bad GMing 101.

>>50586829
This is the exact thing I was thinking of this whole thread, thank you.

>hey guys here is this horrible evil entity
>he's pinned by a seal that took 9 paladin order champions to make
>what could go wrong if we help it out? He said he will give us stuff!
Get smarter players op

>>50610674
Maybe they had no choices?
What if they needed his knowledge to shut down another bigger evil ala silence of the lambs?
"These swords have been itching for centuries, remove some of them for me to relieve it and I'll help you save your world"?

>>50579499

Dumb question, but couldn't they put back the sword after the answer?

Just out of curiosity.

>>50611425
You could really only do that after you decided you'd asked enough questions. Otherwise, the sealed evil would just refuse to play ball the minute you put one of them back. And as we've seen, the PC's seemed to have zero conception of the kind of game of chicken they were playing.

That, and there's probably some specific ritual you have to do with these sorts of things.

>>50607479
>The Faerie Queen went down to Ireland

>>50580306
>casual
>roleplaying
Go back to your dungeon crawlers adn yer diablos or whatever the kiddos are into these days

>>50607479
Is this jojo
I haven't read Jojolion yet

>>50610832
>Maybe they had no choices?
Read the thread, they had plenty of choices, they just chose the worst possible one on a whim.
>What if they needed his knowledge to shut down another bigger evil ala silence of the lambs?
They did not.
>"These swords have been itching for centuries, remove some of them for me to relieve it and I'll help you save your world"?
Not an excuse to be an evil-enabler.

>>50611425
See: >>50596454
>the swords were nice looking but otherwise not especially extraordinary. What mattered was the work of the 9 Grandmasters
The magic was in the way the swords were put in, not in the swords themselves.

>>50612699
Maybe the real magic was the world-ending demons we released along the way