MTG LEGACY GENERAL

When you're bored of playing blue, what decks do you like to run?

>>50574269
jund. there is just something so satisfying about shitting all over delver's creatures with punishing fire, then killing them with 7/8 goyfs

>>50574280
In the same vein, 4c Loam. A deck designed to hate on all blue decks in the format, and has 45/55 MU against DnT. The only blue deck that it doesn't fare well against is SnS, but currently that deck isn't too highly represented (though it's making a comeback). I guess it's time to play more Containment Priests.

>>50574269
DnT or SI

UNBAN MYSTICAL TUTOR

>>50574233
That jace could use improving, it doesn't limit itself to once per turn.

>>50574936
maybe if terminus gets banned. I think that would shake things up a lot...

>>50575084
>Play no more than one ability per turn as a sorcery.

>>50575084
T. Didnt read the card

>>50575283
>>50575575
whoops

For some reason that melded with his -12 and I didn't bother proofreading the abilities

I don't even have a legacy deck pls no bully

>>50574233
Thanks for the new thread and new rule. I really thought my "ignore shitposters" rule would cover it but I guess I have too much faith in people.

>>50574936
I'd be mightily pleased if mystical tutor got unbanned. Feel like that would really help out combo.

Unban all non-power cards. Make legacy great again.

My LGS does a legacy weekly, and for the last several months I've been playing ANT. The meta seems to be shifting away from that as a viable option, so I'm exploring others.

What's a deck I can work, given I have 36 hours to assemble and learn how to play it?

>>50576694
Shifting how? Burn is quick and easy to pick up and if you're ant you have the core of most other combo decks.

>>50576763
I think he means the local meta. And also how decks that should not be viable like eldrazi are becoming a thing and utilizing cripling htings like Chalice and trinisphere.

>>50576763
More like people are dedicating a lot more hate than they would to a blind field. Last week lands maindeck'd sphere of resistance in preparation for seeing me.

Burn I considered. I also looked at grixis delver, which is really not that bad in terms of cards I still need to acquire - is it hard to learn, or is it mostly "play a dude or two then protect them with everything else on my opponent's turn"?

>>50576784
That's why I'm asking how it's shifting.

>>50576793
I know that UR delver is basically that. I'm about other variants if there is some nuance to how they play. Could throw together oops with a defensive sideboard to be faster than any hate they main board.

>>50576793
Just play lands, its relatively cheap and doesn't require much skill to play. You can pick it up in the weekend. Miracles is similar.

>>50576881
Yeah but he's losing to lands. Don't want to be a Johnny-come-lately at a hoppin legacy scene, itd be social suicide.

>>50576694
Gotta go faster.
Build TES. It's better against eldruuzi and can handle a Thalia better than ANT G1.

>>50576901
you are right he would be better off playing straight up omnitell. Or if its just for lands hate Belcher.

>>50576994
Omnitell wouldn't be the worst idea. Feels like a combo deck but doesn't fold to most combo hate. Hate-Belcher sounds like a Belcher deck someone had fully altered to look like Mad-Max was a plane.

>>50576994
>>50577038
Omnitell does seem interesting but it looks like there's a lot of variance in decklists.

Does anyone here have experience with the deck?

Fellow storm players, what are your feelings about the Infect matchup? on paper it looks unfavorable as an equally fast combo deck with countermagic, but my record over a relatively small sample size ( maybe 10 matches) is overwhelmingly positive and I'm not sure if I'm just getting lucky.

>>50576694

Play Poops All Spells.

You know you want to.

>>50579083

I've never thought it was a bad matchup. Sometimes it draws into a hand with, like, Elf, Trop, Brainstorm, Force, Force, Flusterstorm, Agent, then draw into something like double-Invigorate and Berserk, but I've never understood why people think it's that bad outside god-hand situations. I don't even bring in anti-permanent stuff, because its only way to disrupt us is with in-hand countermagic.

Also, Ad Nauseam is great.

>>50579131
Yeah I guess it just looks bad. When sideboarding I usually leave my maindeck Decay in, and cut Rain of Filth and a Burning Wish for 2 Flusterstorms and call it a day. I'm not even sure it's right to leave the Decay, since their clock is anemic if they can't combo kill.

>>50574233
That is a pretty looking Jace. I'd pay for that and I don't even play blue.

>>50579083
it's supposed to be slightly unfavorable for us. I've really only played against ant, so I can't speak from experience with the other storm variants. ask the infect players you play against if they're siding out inkmoth nexus. they should be - it's too slow.

>>50579669
I think most infect players I've played side it out but the guy I just destroyed online didn't.

>>50576793
>I also looked at grixis delver, which is really not that bad in terms of cards I still need to acquire - is it hard to learn, or is it mostly "play a dude or two then protect them with everything else on my opponent's turn"?

Grixis is a tempo deck, so it's both things that you said.

Sometimes you get the "Delver draw", which is casting a Delver T1, it blind flipping, and then you counter everything as you kill them with it plus Lightning Bolts/ Young Pyromancers

However, it can definitely shift gears. It has multiple Cabal Therapies and can be more controlling against Combo decks, but it applies a ton of pressure so it has inevitability.

I'd say it's a decently difficult deck to play compared to stuff like Show/Tell, but in the grand scheme of Legacy I'd say it's 3.5/5 in complexity. The hardest part of the deck is that it lacks true "card advantage" unless you have a Painful Truths in the board, so you have to be really smart about what you do.

>>50574233
>If Jace has no counters, bury Jace
Fixed that for You
Also shit frame/10 stop being nostalfag

>been away from /tg/ for two weeks
>see top article on TCGPlayer is about "New fan format Frontier"
>no Modern general on /tg/

Did... did Modern finally die while I wasn't looking?

>>50580562
link to the TCGPlayer "New Fan Format" thing

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>>50580562
Yes, and they all decided to flood our >/comfy/ general

>>50580773

http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=13659&writer=Corbin+Hosler&articledate=12-6-2016

>>50581105
>2015 and after

do people enjoy playing yu ghi oh?

>>50580351
Don't delver decks have miserable lands matchups? If he wants to beat the lands player he probably shouldn't switch to grixis delver

>>50581166
Nah, but I enjoy playing Goblins. The deck is only like $40 to build. Plus DTT and Cruise are legal again.

>>50581458
>Don't delver decks have miserable lands matchups? If he wants to beat the lands player he probably shouldn't switch to grixis delver

Yeah it's pretty bad, it gets better after sideboarding depending on what you're playing. I do

+1 Pithing Needle (for Thespian's Stage)
+2 Surgical Extraction (Loams, Punishing Fire, or combo piece)
+1 Sulfuric Vortex
+1 Kolaghan's Command / Ancient Grudge (Depends on meta)

Then I'll subtract both Cabal Therapies as well as Murderous Cut and a Bolt and Daze.

I think that gives you a middling chance to lock them out of the game and to crush their lock pieces. It's a lot of sideboarding though, so yeah it's not great.

>>50579083
It's tricky. On one hand you want to try and outspeed them, on the other hand they play 4 daze, 4 force and some play 2-3 flusterstorm in the board.

Last week I got paired with infetc twice. Both times they got a 2nd turn kill one game, and the other game they won by poking for 2 infect five times while having all the counterspells.

>>50579100
Oops was my first introduction to legacy. I moved to ANT because I hated losing turn 1 every game my opponent has 2 answers and I can't draw any therapys.

I'm done with that shit.

>>50580351
I played Mardu Pyromancer for a while in modern, it feels rather similar.

>>50582297
>I played Mardu Pyromancer for a while in modern, it feels rather similar.

Nice, yeah I also play Grixis Pyromancer Delver in Modern and the gameplan is essentially the same, although more clunky but also requires more decision making imo

Young Peezy is one of the coolest creatures ever made, it spawned deck variants in every format it's in

>>50582861
Yeah. What is keeping grixis delver from being a thing in modern? Is it the lack of cheap counters?

>>50582893
>Yeah. What is keeping grixis delver from being a thing in modern? Is it the lack of cheap counters?

Well, right now it's T2, so it's pretty good and has game against some of the T1 decks like Affinity, Jund and Infect.

It's a combination of 2 factors: shit counters, and shit draw. If Daze was reprinted, deck would probably go up to T 1.5. If Brainstorm was reprinted, deck would be T1 tomorrow. Even Preordain would go a long ways to making the deck better.

Obviously, they can't do that because of Infect. However, it'd be a net benefit in the matchup of Delver vs Infect.

The dudes who rep it a lot like Kevin Jones/Ryan Overturf make it T1.5 imo

Personally I'm happy with its position in Modern right now as a deck that can compete against the super fast degenerate decks as well as being able to go big/wide/low

Tl;dr you're right, cheap counters keep it from being better, but it's also shit draw

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>>50583033
that's fair.

I'm probably going to build legacy delver for tomorrow night. It seems like it should work with my playstyle and it'll be a shot out of left field.

is this decklist good or should I alter some things?

>>50583110
i like the full 4 therapy in the 75, some people like true name nemesis in the board, but other than that the list looks pretty stock. If you are expecting a lot of eldrazi, I would up the dismember count. Also, even though it is very popular right now, I don't like winter orb for miracles. I prefer cards that actually do things

>>50583110
I've played 1 round against that "Winter Orb RUG Delver" deck and I won 2-1. Never felt like Orb was what lost me game 2, rather that I just didn't draw lands. If Miracles hits every land drop for the first 5-6 turns of the game, Stasis effects do literally nothing.

>>50583110
>>50583966
To add, I think Null Rod is much more effective piece of hate than Winter Orb.

>>50580455
Shooting-star old-border foils > *

bamp from the graev

>>50581783
>DTT and cruise in a format with no acceleration combos and shitty creatures

thats like allowing yawgmoth's bargain in a set only constructed. Its pointless.

>>50580455
>bury
Bury only applies to creatures. For example, if you look at the wording on Pestilence, it's "discard."

UNBANNING OF FUN WHEN?

>>50586335
What card(s) do you want unbanned?

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>>50586512
Flame tongue kavu

>>50586552
No shitposting please.

>>50586512
Literally anything. Something to shake up the meta, I am tired of delver and miracles. Make legacy great again.

Now for real:

Necropotence

Thats right I said it unban the skull.


Academy + the retardedly overpowered artifacts (not power).

Tinker, windfall, jar, library

I accepted payment for something in the form of a set of goyfs (MM2, shiny thingy at bottom so probably not chinamanese counterfeits), since I already have two modern decks I thought they could serve as the $400 starting point of a legacy deck. What are some decks that run goyf?

Literally the only decks I know in the entire format are
>burn
>miracles
>shardless bug
>reanimator
>D&T

but shardless looks hellaexpensive so I want to consider my options first

>>50586616
i can agree with 'potence, but why academy?
it's not a singleton copy of it like vintage, and we have much more ability to cantrip, it'd be in general better than vintage academy decks in all likelyhood

>>50586714
thats exactly why. If you say it would be too much because of affinity then yes maybe you have a point. But academy as a deck itself would be tier 2 at best, with the current blue heavy counterspell heavy meta. It will fuel retarded blue combo decks though.

>>50586686
Shardless plays Goyf, BUG Delver plays Goyf, Jund plays Goyf. That's about it for good decks that play Goyf.

>>50586747
it'd be very busted i'm pretty sure.
i'd say unban necropotence, and survival ban jtms, and jitte.

Anyone here ever play Goblins? Seems like a fun deck to pilot, it seems a little more then just playing shitty little goblers and swinging until the die hits zero. It's more of a prison/combo deck if I'm not mistaken.

Bring back Tolarian Academy. Make Storm great again.

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>>50586795

w-what about RUG delver?

>>50587293

It is. I really like Goblins, and I came really close to finishing it before I realized I needed a quad of Wasteland and Port. Sold the better part of the deck (sans those lands, obv.) for a Tropical Island a while ago.

Moggcatcher builds look pretty rad.

>>50586616
Litterally ban counterbalance for fucks sake

>>50587639
Why? How can people hate miracles so bad to want to destroy it. Countertop was a deck before miracles. If they want to kill the deck then they should ban the miracles cards

>>50587695
How does banning counterbalance not kill the deck what the fuck

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I don't play legacy, but I was watching the SCG open and why are these nimrods using fucking ultra pro sleeves for these decks that are worth more than thousands of dollars? Not even the half-way decent normal mattes either, the shitty glossy ones with illustrations. Is it sponsorships?

>>50587742

The difficulty with Miracles is that it's easily the best deck in the format (even though it folds to some pretty hilolrious things like Dredge), but it doesn't have any single cards that make it dominate. It's the whole package. Sure, Terminus is important; sure, Counterbalance and Top are important. But there's not a single card that pushes the deck over the threshold, so there's no single ban that would even things out without knocking the deck out of the format.

If there's a deck that desperately needs a dressing down, it's Miracles. But I hate bans, and there's no single ban that would do that without nixing the whole deck.

>>50587788

Their cards are probably double-sleeved.

>>50587890
the only card I want to see gone is miracles. I can live with the rest of the BS but an on demand, often instant speed wrath for 1cmc is just over the fucking line in terms of value. its the best fucking card in the whole deck

make them play 4cmc wraths like the rest of us.

>>50588109
oops. I'm sure this is obvious from context but I meant terminus.

>>50588109
i agree, its ridiculous that it also gets around indestructible, persists, etc. I also think that since a ban would buff creature decks, it will allow for another unban to help out combo/spells decks (maybe mystical tutor?)

>>50588465

Much as I'd love to have Mystical Tutor to throttle forward my combo shenanigans, I think that'd be a pretty scary card to bring into the format. Top alone turns it into a 1-mana Demonic Tutor for Force/Surgical Extraction/whatever.

But then again, maybe that's for the best.

Todays's MTGO tournament practice room blog post/report: 5-1

Round 1: Infect (2-1)
G1 they get stuck on mana and I take away their Force and a pump spell to buy a turn to kill. G2 I eat a speedy combo kill. G3 they keep a slow but hateful hand. I have plenty of discard and work my way through it.

Round 2: Miracles (2-0)
G1 I Duress on the play, take CB, follow it up with a Therapy, take a Force. They tap out for a Mentor. I kill them. G2 I duress and cantrip, and on t3 I have 2x Doomsday in hand. I know they only 1 counterspell. I hardcast doomsday to eat a counterspell. Next turn hardcast the second, it gets Snap Counterspelled. next turn topdeck a 3rd DDay. It resolves. I win with an emrakul pile.

Round 3: Budget Black Pox (0-2)
G1 I eat a dick to variance. Probably spun top about a jillion times and just counldn't find business in either game while my opponent devours my manabase and beats down with a factory over 10 turns. G2 was similar but I died more swiftly because of a Tombstalker.

Rounds 4 and 4a: GB Depths Loam (2-1)
G1 I lose in similar fashion to Round 2. I get salty and leave the match. Host a new one and the same player joins again. Pseudo G2 (since it's pre-board) I fetch a basic swamp to be able to spin top and cast discard spells, and just sit on my fetches until I draw into a kill. G3 they entomb for Loam and drops a dark depths early but I kill early before they can find the other half of the combo.

Round 5: Elves (2-1)
G1 I goldfish on turn 2. Game 2 I get goldfished on turn 3 despite Duressing a Glimpse. Game 3 I duress to see a hand of double Thoughtseize, Therapy, Natural Order. I take NO and drop my 2 LEDs. My hand gets shredded but I fetch a red source, topdeck a Wish, and build a pass the turn pile for the win since they had no clock.

Round 6: Painter (1-0)
I fetch basics and am able to kill through bloodmoon before they combo. Have to take a phone call so no sideboarded games.

>>50583110
So it depends on your meta obviously.

Personally I like Murderous Cut a lot more than Dismember, especially vs Eldrazi and infect, although against Infect, Forked Bolt is sick.

I gauge based off of your sideboard plus maindeck that you're going against a lot of weenie decks.

Overall list is pretty stock with some personal alterations which is good by me. If you're playing against a lot of creature based decks, try replacing Vendilion with True Name Nemesis. You might even try siding in an Umezawa's Jitte.

Let me know how it goes!

>>50583992
>To add, I think Null Rod is much more effective piece of hate than Winter Orb.

Grixis Delver doesn't have a lot in can side in vs Miracles, but Winter Orb has historically done a lot of work in the matchup.
RUG Delver is also way worse than Grixis at applying pressure because it has worse creatures. It's too tempo, if that can even be a thing.

>>50587639
>Litterally ban counterbalance for fucks sake

As I think I said last thread, there's no need to ban anything from Miracles. Solely by unbanning Dig Through Time, you slacken the grip of Miracles. The consequence of course is that the format becomes more blue.

>>50588537
well i don't remember the format that well back when it was legal, but back then i believe you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for the spell in your draw step, so it was a lot better. plus it is still card disadvantage, so fair decks don't really want it as much

>>50589053
Canadian treshold > grixis delver
Anyway miracles is not a problem in the meta. Not at least for enchantress and Death and taxes

>>50589053
my problem with winter orb is that it is a two mana investment that doesn't do anything. it doesn't apply pressure, it doesn't stop counterbalance, it doesn't help you win the game. I would much rather just be playing a pyromancer.

>>50589228

>back then i believe you could crack leds in your upkeep to pay for the spell in your draw step

Make Legacy great again.

Wat do yuo think of this winter orb + root maze deck on the mtgs legacy forum?

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/legacy-type-1-5/developing-legacy/763600-the-shining-winter-maze-mini-primer

>>50590151
looks good if you want to cheese out some wins against slower fair decks but get stomped by combo, just like every other meme deck

>>50587293
It's better than Elves and Miracles, but that's about it. Every other deck destroys it.

>>50588848
>Round 2: Miracles (2-0)
>G1 I Duress on the play, take CB, follow it up with a Therapy, take a Force. They tap out for a Mentor. I kill them. G2 I duress and cantrip, and on t3 I have 2x Doomsday in hand. I know they only 1 counterspell. I hardcast doomsday to eat a counterspell. Next turn hardcast the second, it gets Snap Counterspelled. next turn topdeck a 3rd DDay. It resolves. I win with an emrakul pile.
Perfect example of why Mentor Miracles is the inferior build. Can't deal with cheaty-fatty decks/strategy as well as a hybrid (or even Legends) running Karakas. Also, tapping out for Mentor often does literally nothing, especially against combo.

>>50590286

I disagree. It appears the Miracles guy didn't have any other options there. I guess having Clique would've been better in game 1, but only rarely have I found Venezuelan Legends to really hit home like that. Mentors are a lot faster in my (limited) experience.

>>50590354
>Venezuelan legends
Oh god I'm dying.

>>50590286
I agree with mentor miracles being an inferior build but I still love him in the main with EtA.

Do you mind posting your list? I just wanna cross reference mine

>>50587498
then hit one of those golems with a rite of replication while you're at it

>>50590540
Apologies in advance for XMage layout

NAME:miracles
3 [LEB:300] Tundra
4 [CHK:268] Sensei's Divining Top
2 [AVR:20] Entreat the Angels
2 [LEB:302] Volcanic Island
2 [WWK:31] Jace, the Mind Sculptor
3 [ISD:78] Snapcaster Mage
4 [KTK:233] Flooded Strand
4 [ALL:42] Force of Will
1 [ZEN:211] Arid Mesa
4 [ICE:278] Swords to Plowshares
1 [MOR:55] Vendilion Clique
2 [MMQ:69] Counterspell
1 [5DN:118] Engineered Explosives
1 [LEG:248] Karakas
1 [CNS:16] Council's Judgment
4 [CSP:31] Counterbalance
4 [MMQ:61] Brainstorm
4 [AVR:38] Terminus
4 [ZEN:223] Scalding Tarn
2 [EURO:9] Plains
3 [M10:68] Ponder
4 [EURO:7] Island
SB: 1 [OGW:98] Kozilek's Return
SB: 2 [DGM:135] Wear // Tear
SB: 1 [C14:5] Containment Priest
SB: 1 [DRK:57] Blood Moon
SB: 2 [CMD:46] Flusterstorm
SB: 2 [FRF:20] Monastery Mentor
SB: 1 [LEG:197] Moat
SB: 1 [PLS:116] Meddling Mage
SB: 3 [ICE:213] Pyroblast
SB: 1 [RTR:18] Rest in Peace

>>50591053
Interesting, I see more and more lists playing engineered explosives main deck. Is it really so useful as to play main deck?

>>50591211
That slot used to be Spell Pierce. Ever since I made the switch about 4 months ago I haven't looked back. It's just a good catch-all. Hits Chalice, hits Young Pyro, hits Mongoose, hits just about every hate card out there (3sphere, Thorn, Thalia, etc). It's REALLY good.

thoughts on this MUD list

// 60 Maindeck
// 20 Artifact
4 Grim Monolith
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Trinisphere
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Staff of Nin
2 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Coercive Portal

// 16 Creature
1 Sundering Titan
2 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Metalworker
4 Lodestone Golem
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Phyrexian Revoker

// 22 Land
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 City of Traitors
2 Inventors' Fair
2 Vesuva
4 Glimmerpost
4 Cloudpost

// 2 Planeswalker
2 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon


// 15 Sideboard
// 14 Artifact
SB: 4 Tormod's Crypt
SB: 3 Sphere of Resistance
SB: 3 Tsabo's Web
SB: 2 Smokestack
SB: 2 Tangle Wire

// 1 Planeswalker
SB: 1 Ugin, the Spirit Dragon

>>50591777
I think MUD is just worse than Eldrazi

>>50591777
this deck will become viable when mishras workshop is unbanned

>>50592026
>WHEN mishras workshop is unbanned
>implying

Is there any good plains for 12 post and how do I build one without candelabras. Not shelling out 350 a copy fuck that

>>50592161
Most 12 Post only run 2 anyway but the UG version is best imo

What are good sideboard cards against aluren?

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How can I get the Thopter-Sword pieces from casting Intuition?

I'm thinking of swapping out my 1 maindeck Enlightened Tutor for it and wonder what piles I can search out that eventually get me the two artifacts in play.

Other relevant cards are Academy Ruins and Crucible of Worlds (no Loam sadly as I'm in Esper). If I already have one of the two pieces I can just go get the other one/ruins/crucible and eventually it will work. But can I do it from no pieces to both?

Reason I'm looking at Intuition is it can also tutor me out of a tight spot by searching for 3×Swords or 3×countermagic which is pretty cool

>>50592161
Do you just want pretty Plains or fitting plains?

Obvious choices are the lighting one from Odyssey or the Chippy plains from Alara.

http://magiccards.info/mi/en/289.html or any of the Mirrodin-type set ones are pretty fitting for an artifact deck.

http://magiccards.info/tp/en/324.html The Tempest ones look like Wasteland which is cool. Actually the Time Spiral ones are kind of Wastelandey, too.

>>50586616
HOW COULD YOU NOT MENTION SURVIVAL

>>50592284
if you really want to go in on it you could bring Torpor Orb

that's a bit narrow though

>>50590354
>>50590286
>>50590540
Honestly I haven't noticed much difference vs any particular miracles variant. My strategy doesnt change much and it seems to be a somewhat favorable match up either way. I think Venezuelan miracles probably is the hardest just because of all the Karakas/clique/Venser tricks. Clique can really fuck with a doomsday pile if i don't know it's coming.

Mind Twist dis nothing wrong.

Why is Frantic Search banned? High Tide isn't really a deck anymore

>>50592806
intuition is never going to work well, because no matter what, if you have sword in the pile they'll give you sword. if you have recursion pieces + a foundry (or 2) as your pile they give you foundry and then you need to hit another intuition/sword/recursion

>>50593899
It's not just High Tide, almost every storm dec would use it, it's a free looter that also fixes mana.

>>50592865
>Obvious choices are the lighting one from Odyssey

My nigga

>>50589485
>my problem with winter orb is that it is a two mana investment that doesn't do anything. it doesn't apply pressure, it doesn't stop counterbalance, it doesn't help you win the game.

It doesn't stop blind Counterbalance, but it puts heavy pressure on the manabase if the Miracles player wants to keep using Top. To say that it doesn't win you the game is a misnomer imo, rather, it requires more choices from Miracles thus more opportunity to exploit misplays. It also helps shut down random Entreat the Angels which is always nice.

The thing with Grixis Delver in particular is that it can operate off of two lands super easily, and one land if it really has to. You get a virtual mana advantage that way, especially against tap-out decks like Sultai

>>50595221
Ah yes, I didn't think of that. Considering storm isn't that great right now I still think it could be a safe unban

>>50574233
Remove oops.

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How does legacy general feel about alpha/beta basics?

I could use some input on this. I'm nearly finished with BR reanimator and I'm finalizing the creature package. I've got the usual 4x gris+chanselor. I wanted to supplement with 2x sire and one other target. What would you guys recommend? I have no meta to speak of so that has made this decision more difficult than it should be. I would slot in tidespout but it feels bad in testing. I never have enough cards in hand to make it as awesome as it is in UB. However, if one of you lads could explain to me what I'm missing about it or suggest a better inclusion, I'm all ears. Maybe Jin as a hedge against surgical?

>>50596509
Top notch. I've recently been scooping up beta swamps myself.

>>50596555
Elesh Norn

>>50596555
Seconding Norn. Hedges you against any fair deck. If you want to special snowflake it Inkwell Leviathan is a solid option.

>>50581105
>Everything I have seen about Frontier seems to be about preventing extinction of Siege Rhino.
Fuck that I don't want to play against that shitter again.

>>50596555
I think Norn or Iona would be best. Probably Norn in an unknown meta.

>>50596634
>>50596695
Damn, I was really feeling Elesh too. What a pleasant surprise.

>>50596366
Yes please high tide is not a thing and will not be a thing again, please unban frantic search, just for storm, please yes. Also windfall, and maybe perhaps mystical tutor. or mind's desire.

>>50596509
They're really good except for the Plains. All classics of MTG history.

>>50596555
Iona is the bane of people's existence.

Lands: Name green
Storm:Name black and ping them to death
Miracles: If it goes through name blue
Delver: Blue
Sneak and show: blue

There is literally no reason not to play Iona, the shutdown ranges from "fuck" to instant scoop.

>>50597215
>Miracles: name blue
>gone to a Swords on end step
>Miracles: name white
>can't stop any counters
Fuckin Miracles.

>>50597300
>you have 0 counters

well yeah

>>50597300
sorry i thought this was about UB reanimator. I don't even know why you wouldn't play UB

>>50597429
Budget reasons probably. Rakdos is also cheaper and goes for explosiveness over resilience.

>>50596098
>It doesn't stop blind Counterbalance, but it puts heavy pressure on the manabase if the Miracles player wants to keep using Top. To say that it doesn't win you the game is a misnomer imo, rather, it requires more choices from Miracles thus more opportunity to exploit misplays. It also helps shut down random Entreat the Angels which is always nice.
>The thing with Grixis Delver in particular is that it can operate off of two lands super easily, and one land if it really has to. You get a virtual mana advantage that way, especially against tap-out decks like Sultai
Eh, Miracles will just spin Top once every 2 or 3 turns then. It'll slow us down but it doesn't lock us out like Null Rod does.
>>50597215
>Miracles: If it goes through name blue
Name white. After Iona hits, we're not looking to counter anything we're looking to get rid of her somehow. The only way we can do that is either a 4 mana spell (Venser or Jace) or Karakas.

First of my Deadguy Ale pieces came in the mail today.

>4 Deathrite Shaman (RAV)
>4 Duress (M10)
>4 Dark Ritual (USG)
>3 Swords to Plowshares (4ED)

Just waiting on 1 more Swords and then I can start thinking about how I'm going to work myself into buying the rest of the deck. Already having the Bloodstained Mires thankfully cuts a decent chunk out of how much I'm going to pay. It's the Bayou and the Bobs that are the real problems.

>>50600122
>m10 duress
>urzas ritual

wrong choices, my friend

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O shiz

>>50600857
Is that the gorgon from ravnica?

why is this thread always dead?

>Opponent goes T1 Volcanic Delver
>I play Tomb Chalice
>He responds with Brainstorm, puts 2 back and lets it resolve
>Next turn he triumphantly flips his top card
>it's an Underground Sea
Post times you and your opponent both clearly knew someone fucked up big time.

>>50601159
The format is pretty stagnant. No new, powerful cards means decks don't change too often.

>>50597300
I'm not interested in stopping counterspells if I manage to put a dude on the board. That said, I have been considering Iona as well. I get the sense that I would rather pack her in the sideboard though, and I haven't fully figured out why yet. So far I think I'd rather go with something that can mop up delvers, shamans, thalia, etc.

>>50601214
People who can afford these decks all have jobs and are at work.

>>50601214
How did he cast BS with a tapped Volc?

>>50601731
Now that you mention it, I have no idea. I think I skewed the turns, must have been T2 Delver.

>>50601697
Can confirm. Work posting is worst posting.

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>>50601869
Says you, I shitpost from my job all day erry day.

Being a truck driver is really fucking boring most of the time

>>50601926
>>50601869
I post more from work than anywhere else. Most of my doomsday puzzles I dream up at work.

>>50601926
> shitposting behind the wheel

Imagine having to tell the victim's parents that she was killed while you were calling someone a faggot on a Vietnamese cartoon site.

>>50602848
Lol faggot that would nev

>>50595221
To be fair, frantic search is card disadvantage. I've never played with it, but it might be safe.

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>playing sideboard Helm Combo with Tutor package at the shop weekly

>lands: 0-2 got me pants-down with an unchecked molten vortex
>mirror: 2-1 got him with tutor->rip on his end step while sandbagging a helm and the 6th land
>stompy taxes: 2-1 got him with flickerwisp shinannigans

>>50592284

Krosan Grip? A tad slow, but should do the job.

>>50593517

Oh, don't get me wrong; a resolved Clique is hellish for ANT, too. It's just that the odds are that if they land a Clique lock, the game's going in a really bad direction already because of other stuff. Mentor just shows up and KOs Storm really quickly.

I think Clique is probably more dangerous for Doomsday because deck stacking is integral to the function of the deck. It's really important for ANT, but it's often not an actual part of the combo.

>>50596555

I'd recommend another nonlegendary or two to get around Karakas. Ashen Rider, Blazing Archon, and Grave Titan are all excellent depending on what you're afraid you'll face. Rider's great against Lands, Archon's great against TES and similar strategies, and Grave Titan schools value decks. I get the feeling Tidespout is more for blue-heavy builds, but I don't know because I've only just started reading up on the deck.

If you don't think Karakas is a problem, Iona and Elesh Norn are excellent choices. I wouldn't run Jin if you've already got Sire of Insanity (they go exceedingly poorly together), and Sire is busted as all hell.

Also, if you pick Iona, don't name Blue against Miracles. Name White. They have to find Jace or you just roll over them, and even if they do find Jace, there's a good chance you can power through it.

>>50583110 here

Went 2-2 tonight, pretty decent given what I ran into.

R1 v Miracles (2-0)
He never finds any miracles or counterbalance game 1. game 2 I wasteland his turn 1 tundra and YP goes wide enough to outrace entreat for 3. (He later told me after the match that wasteland was absurd and 4C delver has no business even considering it. Chalk one up to the Japanese Overlords?)

R2 vs. Miracles (0-1)
I threw everything I could at him, but he cast 4 STP and flashed three of them back with snapcasters. Eventually it was enough and only 5 minutes were on the clock for game 2.

R3 vs. Eldrazi (2-1)
He keeps a 1 lander game 1, I have wasteland. He doesn't draw a second land. Game 2 he gets a god hand and 20 damage on turn 3. Game 3 I land a turn 1 delver, force his turn 2 reality smasher after I flip, and win the race from there.

R4 vs. Reanimator (standard) (0-2)
This guy normally plays an all-in TinFins list so I mull to 5 to get a Force hand. He keeps a double reanimate hand and gets his t2 grislebrand.

game 2 very similar to game 1, only he wins the counter war over the reanimate and I can't answer the 3 turn clock.

Overall I was happy with the deck even if the meta wasn't great. Null rod was for sure the right call against miracles even if I never drew it. I do, however, need to run at least 2 basics - maybe go down to 2 wasteland?

>>50606813
>game 2 I wasteland his turn 1 tundra and YP goes wide enough to outrace entreat for 3. (He later told me after the match that wasteland was absurd and 4C delver has no business even considering it. Chalk one up to the Japanese Overlords?)
He's just salty. Good Miracles players ALWAYS fetch/play basics first, even against decks that you wouldn't expect a Wasteland (or other non-basic hate) from. Hell, even in the Mirror I'll fetch duals conservatively (unless my opponent is aggressively fetching his duals) because some people like to cheese with B2B or Moon. And to expect a Delver deck (the archetype that pressures manabases like no other) to NOT run Wasteland? Yea, that guy just sucks at Miracles. First rule of Legacy: always assume they have it.

>>50607313
The moment you forge that rule.

BAM! Burn deck with 4 FoW

>>50607382
Them always having it does not mean you should always be playing around it. It's all probability. Unless you know the full 75 is a non-zero probability that the Burn deck you're up against doesn't have FoW. That probability is something ridiculously small like .0000001 but it's still non-zero.

>>50606813
>I do, however, need to run at least 2 basics - maybe go down to 2 wasteland?
thats not how that works at all. you run 4 wastelands and STIFLE to stop opposing wastelands or play DRS and everything fine because you have graveyards full of land anyhow.
i've also had to 'bolt-you-daze-my-own-bolt-bounce-volc-pay-1-you-take-3-wasteland-resolves-no-target' before, because daze was dead and i needed that volc

>>50607511
Agreed. Delver decks should never play basics. If you were running Grixis Midrange (basically YP Control) then you can play 2 Islands, but if you're playing Delver then no basics.

>>50606813
regarding the reanimator matchup, i always considered it better to fight over the entomb, since the deck plays only 4 entomb but 8+ reanimate spells. If you let the entomb resolve, any reanimate spell becomes a live draw, whereas if you counter it the are drawing to either another entomb or a fatty+discard outlet.

>>50607434
No of course not, expecting FoW from a burn deck is really not a good idea. But don't count it out, it's a big format

>>50607584
>Grixis Midrange (basically YP Control) then you can play 2 Islands
100% true. I did exactly this when Dig Through Time was legal. I also played Fact or Fiction maindeck. That fucking card, man.

>>50607659
>>50606813
if you have a chance to stop a griselbrand from hitting the grave, definitely take it

>>50607659
They still play Careful Study (if UB).

>>50608110
right, so its 8 of both pieces (entomb + study vs reanimate + exhume) but if they want to careful study, they need both that and the griselbrand for it to be as effective as entomb, while if there is already a target in the grave, the reanimation spells all do the same thing. So it is still better to counter entomb

>>50597215
Looks like eldrazi wins again haha.

>>50609581
eldrazi is indeed pure cancer

Rate my budget 10post list
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/budget-green-10post/

Taking this list to a tourney on Sunday, any last moment tips?
// 60 Maindeck
// 16 Artifact
4 Lion's Eye Diamond
4 Lotus Petal
4 Chrome Mox
4 Goblin Charbelcher

// 12 Creature
4 Tinder Wall
4 Elvish Spirit Guide
4 Simian Spirit Guide

// 12 Instant
4 Desperate Ritual
4 Pyretic Ritual
4 Seething Song

// 1 Land
1 Taiga

// 19 Sorcery
4 Land Grant
4 Rite of Flame
4 Burning Wish
3 Empty the Warrens
4 Gitaxian Probe


// 15 Sideboard
// 4 Creature
SB: 4 Xantid Swarm

// 2 Instant
SB: 2 Pyroblast

// 9 Sorcery
SB: 1 Empty the Warrens
SB: 1 Shattering Spree
SB: 1 Diminishing Returns
SB: 1 Infernal Tutor
SB: 1 Telemin Performance
SB: 1 Goblin War Strike
SB: 1 Tendrils of Agony
SB: 1 Reforge the Soul
SB: 1 Grapeshot

Also deck theme song https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U2LAdyE8lEU

>>50607313
I saw that he sided in 3 blood moon, which, if any of them resolve I insta-scoop. The round 2 miracles player had back to basics in his board, which is a similiar "if it resolves I can't win" card.
I do think he fetched his duals aggressively because I never went for a basic and he never saw wastelands game 1.

>>50607511
I'm on the DRS plan, I assume UR delver opts for stifle/teferi's response. It did feel really awkward using it for mana instead of using it to drain life though.

>>50607659
>>50608008
Yeah, I was just sloppy on that I think. Game 2 there wasn't much I could do because he went "turn 1 USea, Thoughtseize myself, reveal force, daze, flip jace, reanimate, pitch grislebrand"
I had surgical extraction and one counter but not two.

I will remember that next time though.

>>50612551
Belcher/10

>>50612551
Have you ever won with tendrils? I don't think it''s worth the sideboard slot.

>>50614072
I think we've had this conversation before, but isn't EtW better in almost any situation since you don't need to cast it for lethal, even 5 storm is usually enough to push lethal. When are you Wishing to give them the Drills over EtW?

>>50614188
I don't like tendrils in Belcher because the circumstances under which it'it's lethal are so rare. With 7 cards in hand + tendrils, you still need 2 more storm. So you need to eother probe into another probe into a spell you can cast and then also have LED to make black, or you need to make 10 mana, including 3 black, so you can wish->tutor->wish->tendrils. Juse seems so unlikely, and in any case, 20 goblins will probably do the job just fine.

>Want to play legacy
>Could go to FNM only once every 2 weeks or so
>Don't want to spend that much money on a client as shit as MTGO but could play at any moment I want

Why those retards at WOTC don't make a good online client?

>>50600857
>atlazan

MERFOLK BROS UNITE

>>50614072
Lots of times, usually by wish into wheel 7 into wish tendrils. Any wish+LED hand has the potential to get there, sometimes you have 8 cards with a Probe and only need to Tendrils for 18 after 2 fetches from your opponent. Vs Lands and Miracles ETW just isn't a card in which case you need to just drop your mana sources and wait for Belcher or Wish+Tendrils. Also gives you an out vs Burn if you have a sketchy hand and they land an Eidolon.

What would you run instead?

>>50614072

Been considering cutting it from my Belcher deck as well. Such a rarity that it doesn't seem worth it, except that that's what pretty much the entire wishboard is like anyway, so I don't see the harm in keeping it.

Works well with Diminishing Returns, but then again, I've been considering cutting that too.

I'm just not too hot on Goblin tokens. They're great in a number of situations, but they're also the easiest combo-kill to stop. I figure a chance to do something stronger is worth the slot.

>>50614727
I think when you wish->wheel you're just as likely to kill with belcher as with tendrils. I might run a pyroclasm or cave-in in that slot. I haven't played a ton of belcher, but I've never once killed with tendrils. It just doesn't seem great to me.

>>50614752
I think you need some wheel effect in the board as a bailout plan.

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someone is offering me 3x JtmS for 135 bucks excluding shipping

Is it worth the risk?

>>50614970
I'm no expert in recognizing chinaman fakes, but I would get some high-res scans before buying pretty much any card over ~$50. Seems like too good of a deal to be true.

Need to add a combo deck to the arsenal, somebody throw me a sales pitch for their brand of combo dick

>>50615486
buy d&t and put 4 enlightened tutor, 3 rest in peace and 1 helm of obedience in your sideboard

>>50615486
Play ddft you'll be the coolest guy in school. You'll win through trinispheres and people will think you're a wizard and at magic bitches will hop on your big d at the kids table..

>>50615486
TWO WORDS

FLUCTUATOR COMBO

>>50616077
DON'T LISTEN TO THIS POSTER HE IS A SKELETON. DDFT WILL MAKE YOUR DINGDONG GROW 3 SIZES.

I can give you real reasons to play the deck if you want

>>50616163
Three sizes is intriguing, but let's hear the rest of it. I showed off my junkblade deck to my friends who play standard & modern and they said it was """boring""" so I want something with some razzle dazzle and combo decks are the money shot of eternal formats. Plus having an extra deck to switch it up every now and then is nice

>>50615486
The only good combo deck is the Cure

>>50616735
>showed your junk to your friends
>they said it was boring
my condolences

>>50615486
NO ONE EXPECTS THE SPANISH INQUISITION

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>>50590266
>calling Goblins better then Elves

>>50616735
> I showed off my junkblade deck to my friends who play standard & modern and they said it was """boring"""
They're absolutely right though. junkblade and all of the other midrange decks are just souped up standard/modern decks.

>>50616735
Alright so Storm decks are the Quintessential Legacy Combo Deck. Doomsday, aka DDFT is a storm deck, so we're on the right track. However, a deck like ANT will look at something like a Trinisphere or a Gaddock Teeg or a Leyline of Sanctity and PROBABLY CRY. DDFT can potentially beat any of those. Turn 1 thoughtseize into Hymn on turn 2 into Lili on turn 3? TES CAN'T HANDLE THAT, but DDFT is much more resilient to discard. You also get to play 7 maindeck business spells and 7 discard spells with ANOTHER IN THE BOARD you can Wish for. Plus the wishes give you a ton of flexibility. The deck is highly customizable! EVEN THE MAINDECK. And the card Doomsday means you can see whatever maindeck bullet(s) you want every time. IF THAT DOESN'T CONVINCE YOU, THERE'S MORE! The manabase is ROCK SOLID LIKE MY DICK! Plus, every kill is totally deterministic, barring opponent intervention! No more casting Ad Nauseam with no floating mana and crossing your fingers! No more watching those 14 Goblin tokens you worked so hard for get wiped up for 1 white mana! JUST WIN! NO MUSS NO FUSS!

Now if this is all true and I'm not just a big FIBBER, why doesn't everyone play this sexy pile? 2 BIG REASONS. It's HARD! It plays a little differently than other storm decks. Mistakes USUALLY LOSE YOU THE GAME. You go all in on Doomsday and there is no coming back. It has a VERY STEEP LEARNING CURVE! It can be discouraging to pick up. You goldfish 1000 games and feel like you've figured it out, and then suddenly you can't win at all when you're across from some SCMUCK WITH HIS MIRACLES DECK.

The 2nd big reason is SPEED. Doomsday has FAR FEWER TURN 1 WINS than other storm decks. Turn 2 wins are more realistic but still less common than with ANT. Basically, you don't get free wins and you don't get to sneak in under hate as much. Fortunately, Doomsday is built to slog through it. In reality though, it's approximately THE SAME SPEED AS ANT.

>>50618135
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/

>>50615486

Play Dredge. Separates the scrubs from the actual Legacy players because scrubs whinge that they lost to Dredge because they didn't bring graveyard hate, but good players know that those guys were playing decks that shouldn't need graveyard hate.

You could also play Storm. Once had an opponent ragequit the format because I chained Lotus Petals, tapped out, Chained said Lotus Petals, bouncing Ethersworn Canonist, then chained the Lotus Petals to make a Tendrils chain.

Like chains? ANT is OFF THE CHAIN.

I fucking LOVE legacy

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>>50618080
T-TAKE THAT BACK! IT'S WAY COOLER THAN THAT!

I just wanted to goyf people and play SFM in the same deck... (without paying for blue duals)

>>50618161
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/

voidsnare over chain of vapor why?

>>50619917
not him but almost definitely to burning wish for

>>50617969
Goblins walks all over Elves in the MU.

>>50620038
>>50619917
Yeah it's a wish target. You sometimes bring it in, like in the DnT matchup, but most of the time it's just for wishing. Not even sure I really want it.

>>50618135
Can confirm that you will impress all your friends by saying "doomsday", pausing for a few seconds, then saying "I am dead", at least for a while.

>>50616833
Also, this man is insane
But so will you be after you swing with a 20/20 on turn 2 when you're opponent's on 38.

Today's mtgo tourney practice blog post/report. Record: 4-1

r1 vs enchantress w/ rip helm (2-0)
Can be scary if they combo fast but if they don't the matchup is ridiculously favorable. G1 I kill on turn 2. My hand is Decay, Therapy, IU, Doomsday, Ritual, Brainstorm, board is Swamp, Island. I leave it to the reader as an exercise. Game 2 he slams Leyline t0. I ignore it and kill with lab man a few turns later.

r2 vs Manaless Dredge (2-0)
I almost don't notice I'm on the play despite losing the die roll. I "blind" therapy on Gitaxian Probe, hit 2, and have all the time in the world to setup a kill. Game 2 I Brainstorm into a Surgical Extraction, attempt to extract a discarded Golgari Thug, and take out the ones in the library but accidentally leave the one in the grave. Fortunately I am not punished and kill the next turn as planned.

r3 vs 4c Loam (1-2)
G1 I ripped a chalice from their hand and fetched basics to deny them wasteland. They ended up scooping, a little prematurely in my opinion. G2 and 3 their deck was firing on all cylinders and I never really felt like I was in either of them. I probably could have been a bit more prudent with my fetches. I think i opened myself up to wasteland too much.

@DDFT want to play Xmage later tonight?

>>50622011
con't


r4 vs Eldrazi (2-1)
G1 they had had an aggressive hand with no chalices, so we had to race. Despite a TKS taking my ritual, I got them with a storm kill on the last possible turn. Only managed 8 storm, but their Ancient Tomb helped me out. Game 2 they had the exact opposite hand. No clock but hate out the anus. Chalice@0, Thorn on turn 1, Chalice@1 on turn 2, Thorn on turn 3. I got stuck at 2 mana and scooped it. Game 3 I get to be on the play and my hand was Rit, Rit, Brainstorm, Brianstorm, Doomsday, Underground Sea, Fetch. This is an easy Turn 2 kill but that dies to almost any reasonable turn 1 play from them. So I play Sea, rit, Doomsday, and build this pile: Shelldock Isle, Emrakul, Island, Maniac, Volc. The idea behind this is they probably play a lockpiece turn 1, and Emmy gets through thorn and chalice. The backup plan of drawing the remaining cards and casting maniac also gets through chalice (probably) and thorn. I pass the turn, and they play tomb, thorn, and pass. I draw and play Isle and hide Emmy. They play a wasteland. I draw Island, play my fetch, fetch the volc, and pass. on their turn they play a second thorn. I draw maniac, play my island, play maniac, and cross my fingers. They have no removal.

r5 vs Affinity (2-1)
G1 I killed them on turn 2 without an issue. The first game is basically just a race. I saw STP in their hand on turn 1 but they tapped out on their turn so I made a point of killing with Maniac to try to get them to keep removal in. Game 2 I boarded up to 3 Abrupt Decay just in case of hate. My hand ended up a little slower as a result, and they came out of the gates shockingly fast. They Glimpsed, chained it into a bunch of dudes and a Plating, and put me to 2 life. I had planned to win on my turn but needed to fetch, which would put me to 1 and turn off doomsday. Game 3 my hand was a little slower than I would have liked but they weren't fast enough and I gave them the drills while double STP sat in their hand.

>>50622025
Actually wait no I can't Xmage tonight nevermind :(

>>50622025
I don't have XMage installed on my computer right now, so not tonight. but I can get it and maybe we can play later this weekend if you're free.

>>50622080
We'll see. Might be able to do tomorrow night (US EST).

>>50622116
I'll probably be able to find some time then.

>>50614970
The right one is the only real JTMS of the 3. I would tell you know I know but the OP says no fakes discussion.

>>50622025
>>50622080
How is Xmage compared to mtgo? Other than the price barrier, I feel like learning to use mtgo would be a bit of a chore, with holding priority and stacking triggers, etc. Stuff that's easy IRL but just a pain online.

>>50622579
XMage is probably better because less/no crashes. And it's free. Rules enforcement is all there.

>>50622579
Their interfaces are very similar. XMage's is a little shittier. But it's free and its server is more reliable. However I rarely have issues with MTGO crashing. The fact that XMage is free is a big deciding factor for most. I had some excess funds so I bought in on MTGO because the level of competition on average is a bit higher. But if you have people to play with who you know are skilled, XMage is totally fine.

>>50622692
>server is more reliable
>Playing DnT vs Turbolands
>Wining g 3
>Suddenly disconected
GG xmage, gg

>>50623079
It's such a good client that it even emulates the MTGO time outs.

>>50623115
the worst is that it always appears as if one ragequited

>>50622026

>Brianstorm

I know someone named Brian, and I think that card deserves a restriction in Vintage.

Good job on the tournament, though!

Reanimate

>>50624550
I'm going to a tournament in MA next weekend so I'm trying to get as much practice in as I can. My goal is to play at least a tournament's worth of matches each day, so 5-6 minimum.

Dead thred dead format embrace modern already u fuckin geezers

>>50627989
how does it feel to know frontierfags feel the same way about modern as you do about legacy? your format is dying too, now get back to your containment thread.

>>50627989
Not today, Sonny. Modern doesn't have Show and Tell.

>>50628049
I thought frontier only had standard legal sets, i.e. no Comspiracy.

>>50627989
Thanks for the bump pal. A lot of us regulars I think are US east coast based, so we're probably just waking up on a saturday.

I've got a bigger 100ish player event coming up. Which one of these would you play:

ANT/TES
DDFT
Belcher
DnT
Grixis Delver
UBg Reanimator
Burn

I'm considering flipping a coin between DnT and Belcher.

>>50628908
they're all fine choices. play the one that has the highest ratio of 'i know how to play this' to 'i enjoy playing this' and you'll do well (variance notwithstanding). this isn't like standard where its 'play one of these two mythic midrange piles or lose to them' or modern being 'predict the meta or draw your post-board hate cards'

>>50628908

Death and Taxes is hideously powerful right now.

I think Reanimator and Grix are probably in the best position except for D&T. Personally, I'd probably #YOLO and play Storm, but that's just me :D

>>50629190
also make sure you're packing something to cheese Massacre players like Judge's Familiar, Mana Tithe, etc. if you suspect people are gunning for D&T

>>50628908
If you really feel like you could do well with DDFT, I'd pick that. Otherwise, ANT or DnT would be my choices. If you have a read on the meta, pick the one best suited. If you dont, DnT probably has fewer really bad matchups.

>>50628908
I think ANT/TES, Grixis Delver and DnT probably have the best chance in a big event and reward you the best for tight play. I wouldn't try to play DDFT at a big event unless you're our resident DDFT Savant, it seems like it would be too taxing to play at 100% for a bunch of games.

>>50629887
I'm gunna disagree with Grixis Delver. That ship has sailed, the deck can't beat Miracles or DnT, and is even at best against Eldrazi. The only matchup I really like it for is Sneak and Show

>>50629081
UBg Reanimator would be my pick if I wanted to be at my comfort zone. I've been playing it since printing of Entomb but I think DnT will be all over the place.

>>50629190
DnT is ridiculous at the moment. That being said I dont think UBg Reanimator has same kind of power as the BR variant and I dont have the cards for BR.

>>50629418
Got the storm decks together about two months ago. So I have quite low experience with them. But that doesnt mean that I can't try :D

>>50629418
I guess DDFT is not the deck for this big event.

>>50629887
ANT/TES is having a bad time here currently. So I guess I too should be playing DnT...

>>50630390
Not much sns here.

So, Taxes to the masses then.
or Belcher if I'm not feeling it.

>>50630847
Since there is no overlap in cards between Belcher and DnT, bring both sleeved up and ready to go. And unless you walk in and you see people wearing Elves shirts and talking about their Elves decks or something, play DnT.

>>50630847
pack up leonin relic-warder and manriki-gusari for sure. if you want to be a memester like me you can also sideboard helm combo.

remember: jitte wins this mirror so hard it's not even funny, so plan accordingly.

>>50631349
I'm not a huge fan of Manriki. I always just tutor up my own Jitte, and once theirs is online you've usually lost unless you can deal with theirs. If I had to bring a card specifically for the mirror, I'd rather have an extra Needle or 4th Revoker

>>50631826

I do this. Needle and extra revoker at sideboard. I feel that they do much more than manriki-gusari.

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>Decide to crack a pack of EMA
>Foil Shardless Agent and Duplicant
>Going away to LGS-less hometown tomorrow, with few trades to be seen
>Shardless is steadily dropping in price
What do?

>>50632641
Build shard less bug then you don't need to sell.

>>50632641
>>50634160
Build foil Shardless Sultai.
It's the only way to create maximum value.

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>>50634798
>>50632641

What are the odds there is a combo deck in legacy that does not yet exist but could be competitive in the current meta?

>>50635195
Seems unlikely. The Internet hivemind explores all possibilities.

>>50629081
>standard
m8 ill fite you
aetherflux storm in standard is the closest i can get to legacy

>>50600857
Hour of Devastation and Conquest of Power are really shitty names for a set. Set names should be short and evocative 'Exodus' or 'Apocalypse' both send similar messages to 'Hour of Devastation' and don't sound like rejects from Yugioh sets.

The only good set names with more than one word are:
The Dark
Arabian Nights
Fallen Empires
Ice Age
Urza's Saga, Legacy, Destiny
Mercadian Masques
Fifth Dawn
Betrayers of Kamigawa
Saviors of Kamigawa
Time Spiral
Planar Chaos
Future Sight
Alara Reborn
Scars of Mirrodin
Dragon's Maze
Fate Reforged
Eldrtich Moon

>>50635978
Supposedly they turned away from those as it gets hard to decide what set name.

>>50636535
The new model for set names is that they have to either involve the name of the plane they're on or sound like powerviolence band names.

>>50634798
>Sultai
GROSS.

I'm tired of dealing with the removal-heavy meta in my casual playgroup. What's a fun deck that doesn't have to worry about having all of its important cards get hit by Oblivion Ring or Lightning Bolt or Path or whatever?

Hasn't been a "listening" thread in a while. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JY91lvJ1wE

Anyway, what's the spiciest tech you guys are running, and for what decks?

seriously considering Slaughter Games against Miracles

>>50637072

Storm.

>>50636582

>powerviolence band names

Holding out for Charles Bronson, the set.

>>50631885
I think of it as being kind of like the "Painful Truths" in grixis Delver. On paper it looks great, but in practice it doesn't actually do anything to beat the card that you're losing to.

>>50637072
Storm, Lands, Enchantress

>>50637153
>>50637158
Thanks, guys.

Tonight's Tournament Practice report. Didn't do so hot tonight despite started fairly strong.

Record: 3-4

Round 1 vs UW Stoneblade: 2-1
G1 we trade disruption for a while and build up our mana. They land a stoneforge and fetch a batterskull. I start taking some hits. Eventually I cast an LED, and I get cliqued, which takes the Burning Wish I needed to go off. Clique draws me a cantrip, which finds me Doomsday, and I have enough mana to go off anyway. G2 I face no clock, but I can't manage to work through the countermagic. A couple snapcasters come down and beat me to death before I manage to do anything. Game 3 I Duress t1, take a Flusterstorm, Doomsday on turn 2 and win.

Round 2 vs Death and Taxes: 2-1
G1 they play a basic Plains and pass. I blind Therapy naming Thalia and it hits. I see a Sanctum Prelate, Stoneforge, and Jitte. They play Stoneforge and get the Skull. I therapy again and nab the Prelate. On their turn they cheat in the Skull and are tapped out. I give them the drills. G2 I therapy Thalia again but my hand doesn't come together and they get SFM and another Thalia down. I can't find a way to get rid of it before I die to beats. G3 they mull to 5, I probe, and see Sanctum prelate Flickerwisp, vial, and 2 lands, including Port. On my turn 2 I fire off a Doomsday and build a pass the turn pile and cross my fingers. It gets through.

Round 3 vs Budget UW Merfolk: 1-0
G1 I probe and see a counterspell, plus some 3 cost merfolk and an Azorius Chancery. I lay an SDT and use it to dig for a discard spell. On turn 3 they tap out and I figure I should just go for it because I had the goods to play through Daze and Force seemed unlikely given the presence of Chancery. I win and they leave the match.

>>50637864
Round 4 vs BUG Control? (0-2)
This was some kind of BUG deck with Forces and Daze and Lili and Wasteland but also Noble Hierarch and Duress and Progenitus. Both games were pretty similar. Just couldn't put it together. G1 Lili and Counterspells kept me off my combo, and G2 business spells were duressed away and I couldn't find more before a Goyf + exalted trigger killed me. Not sure if there was something I could have done better. My game 1 keep was a bit sketchy but I've seen worse.

Round 5 vs BR reanimator (1-2)
Game 1 they keep 6 and I keep 5, but they pass their first turn without playing a spell. I think it's manaless dredge and aim for a quick kill. I make a pass the turn pile, and to my suprise they entomb Iona and reanimate it. Fortunately they name black and my pile still gets the job done. Game 2 we both mull to 5. They have Chancellor, Gris, looting, land, land. Their looting gives them 2 land, which I learn when I throw away an LED to put a useless Duress through the Chancellor trigger. I draw a Surgical, but they draw Exhume. I surgical the Chancellor, and they draw 7, get an Iona to go with their gris and I scoop. Game 3 they have a Chancellor again and I have surgical, so I just lay a land and pass. They go Unmask, take surgical, ritual, entomb, exhume griselbrand. I play a ponder for 2 mana, pass, and they draw 7 and get Iona out again and I scoop.

Round 6 vs Burn (1-2)
I win game 1 at 1 life. They get me to 3 and are tapped out, so I go for it and they don't have a fireblast. Game 2 I die on turn 3. Game 3 have to mull and on turn 3 I have the goods to combo but can't win through the fireblast I know about.

Round 7 vs Bug Delver (0-2)
Shit is going downhill now. Game 1 I can't get through the counterwall and die to Angler beats. Game 2 I Duress a Stifle and then play around it for 2 turns forgetting they didn't have it. They blind flip a delver revealing spell pierce to complement the Force and Daze I know about and I just scoop.

>>50637138
currently listening to https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_O8fqhmDQBI
Nightwish's latest album is damn good.

>>50638389
They've moved too far from the original sound now they just sound generic.

>>50637072
>casual playgroup.
>>50637153
>Storm.
See: casual
>>50637158
>Storm, Lands
See: above
Though Enchantress is definitely a fun deck. It may have more "power" than the average casual deck but it works on such a different axis that the casuals might just be impressed by it rather than get mad that someone is bringing a real deck to the table.

>>50637138
>seriously considering Slaughter Games against Miracles
It's annoying but unless you're playing a deck that loses to ONLY one card (i.e. most GRb Lands decks will name either STP or Terminus post-board, expecting all of the other to be boarded out–which I don't because I'm not fucking a robot) it's not really good as a fun-of. And your SB doesn't have the room for multiple SGs. What would you even name? FoW? By then we'd have landed a CB. CB? Then we'd still have Flusterstorm and FoW.

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>>50637138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5VcTbhKm4g

new ish is helm combo out the side

i'm 30/70 on driving to Fenton for legacy tomorrow. we'll see if it snows or what. i'm 90/10 on the gp though.

>>50639014
Don't get me wrong, I think Wishmaster was their best album, but I really enjoy the new stuff.

>>50639349
Century Child here.

Don't know if this is the right thread for this, but I've been out of the card game for a while.
Picked up 4 Eldritch Moon fatpacks for $20 each on a whim.
Should I open them up or just sell em off for $25-30?

>>50639476
Open them you fucking aspie.

Decided to build cloudpost. Do I stay U/G or is a mono green list possible? I feel like the loss of show and tell and brainstorm make my tops and aggro/combo matchup worse.

In about an hour and a half I'll be drunk. I need someone to convince me to buy 2 flusterstorm and and a snap casters mages while I'm drunk. If you fellas don't I'm buying weeaboo shit

>>50639832
What kind of weeaboo shit?

>>50639841
Girls und panzer and whatever else peaks my interest

>>50639832
>>50640045
I'll give it my best.
[Spoiler]But that's not much, given that Snapcaster is a safe reprint in MM2017, imho [/Spoiler]

>>50640045
Tank girls are worst girls

>>50637138
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGHSubaJcGw For some sneaky spicy madness.
I really like Invasive Surgery in Delver sideboards and was pretty surprised at how much it did against miracles, S&T, storm, etc. Getting delirium in canadian is pretty hard, but if it works then you are golden.

>>50640334
Yellow gunning fight you

I need help identifying an old card.
About 10-12 years ago my friend brought his magic deck to school and one of the cards looked really cool to me. He even lent it to me for a day so I could redraw it at home.
All I can remember now is that it was some kind of elephant or mammoth made out of molten rocks and lava.
I just got into magic and I would like to see that card again.

>>50639034
I bring high tide to casual.

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>>50634160
>>50634798
But I traded away my Ancestral Vision 5 days ago

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>>50640807
Wasn't this cool dude was it?

>>50641320
Something like that, but I'm pretty sure it had tusks

>>50637138
someone mentioned firestorm in this thread, and every time that happens I immediately hear
>STREET BY STREET
>BLOCK BY BLOCK
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=nn4QsRmm6Y0

the spiciest thing I think I can claim right now is a divert in my infect sideboard.

>>50639567
Ug seems the way to go. Not playing blue loses you a lot of power.

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>>50641750
How bout dis

BUG or RUG delver? I have a playset of goyfs I want to use.

>>50643511
Isn't flametounge Kavu strictly better?

>>50643630
RUG. Lightning Bolt is the OG nigga.

>>50643746
ftk deals damage to creatures, so apples and oranges

Any burning wish storm players here? do you think void snare is worth the sideboard slot? I'm having second thoughts.

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bumping with my spicy shitbrew. been testing it on xmage, so far I've shit on shardless, infect, belcher, weird mono green thing, ur delver. let me know what you guys think.

>>50646909

Do you just aggressively mulligan to Death's Shadow?

>>50647050
I'll keep hands with brainstorm and lands or more than one free cycler. lots of decks can't beat turn 1 street wraith.

>>50646909
Consider adding a stifle/dreadnaught package?

Otherwise I really can't see a deck with only one real threat doing anything.

>>50648595
Dark confidant and Street Wraith can both be real threats. The deck has enough disruption that I can see a confidant going all the way if it comes down early. That said, how's your storm matchup? It seems like they would just duress you and then kill you with a storm count of 4 or something.

>>50648673
Even if you reanimate it T1, a 3/4 is not a real threat.

>>50648826
Backed up by disruption it can be. Isn't that what delver decks do? Not saying this is supposed to be a tempo deck but it looks like it can play that role decently enough.

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Do you guys think running pic related in my wishboard is too spicy?

Reanimator players what do I do vs lands

Karakas/chasm/ith keep cock blocking me until I get wastelanded out or big fat marit lage takes a mcdumpy on me

I'm 0 for 3 vs the lands player at the store

>>50645674
How often do you come up against ionas on black or prelates on two? Those i assume would be the main things you want it for, but its also a bit of a catch-all. Hits things you might not expect.

>>50649044
Card seems shitty

>>50649271
You dont

>>50649529
The problem I'm having with it is that you rarely are prepared to go get it, so when you need it you have to dig for a burning wish before you can cast it, and you also need to be able to take advantage of the window it creates, so you need to either have the kill or a therapy to get rid of the problem. Iona doesn't really give you enough time to do that. It's randomly good against null rod or Leovold or some dumdum who plays a Chalice@0 but all of those are reletively rare. It is by far my least used sideboard slot. I just don't know how to feel about it. I'm rarely pleased with my sideboard, no matter what format I play, so I'm constantly second guessing my choices. For DDFT, the only cards I consider sacred in the board are 2x Abrupt Decay, and then the required Wishboard of Doomsday, Contract, Tendrils, Discard, Massacre. That's 8 slots I struggle to decide on.

>>50649271
tidespout tyrant, cast spells, bounce their lands

>>50649666
See I don't know that it's that shitty. It's a wish target that can hit chalice, Counterbalance, hatebears, randomly be a board wipe vs elves, can get other hate artifacts in long games, etc. The Crime side probably wouldn't see much use but getting a reanimator player with it would feel real good. I'm gonna test it on mtgo and we'll find out if it's any good or if I've been blinded by the spice.

>>50649820
Well if it works in testing then who am I to say not to use it. But my guess is that it will be shitty

>>50649891
well you're probably right. I've just been dissatisfied with void snare lately. I want that lot to destroy problem permanents instead of delay the problem, and this was the only thing I could find that did it. But it all likelihood it will be mediocre at best.

>>50649732
If you really want an effect like that, why not Gaze of Granite? For 1 mana more you upgrade from a Ratchet Bomb CMC of X to a Deed CMC or Below effect. Do you ever cast the BW side?

Eldrazi Stompy is still a tier 1 deck, correct? How are the matchups of it against other tier 1 decks?

>>50650149
Potentially the crime side could be cast to comically blow out a reanimtor player. I considered gaze of granite but i'm not sure how it stacks up. If punishment is terribad I don't see gaze being better enough to warrant its inclusion, so I'll probably just test the split card.

>>50650658
Eldrazi is 70/30 or so against ANT - you're mainboarding so much hate that losing a game is either your own fault, or mulling to 4 and not finding a lock piece.

Against Miracles you're probably 60/40, maybe 50/50. They can punish you with random terminus hits if you extend a bit too far, and stompy doesn't run enough things that are out of CB range to rely on them.

Vs. Delver Variants you're 55/45 or so - you usually win the races, but they can trip you up and are probably only 1 turn behind, so countering a critical beater might turn the tables.

Vs. D&T you're 90/10 - you're playing the exact same game only going bigger.

Lands and Shardless I don't know well enough to comment either way.

>>50646909
Looks like jank that beats decks with little or no removal.

>>50649000

>9000

Swampwalk is real in Legacy.

>>50646909

Looks like a pretty solid value deck, but looks like it'll have problems with Chalice.dec, Burn, and a number of non-value-based decks that don't really care about board states. I think Swords to Plowshares is a problem for it, too, but I haven't played it, so I don't know.

I guess another way to put it is that it looks like it'll be great against opposing value decks, but value decks themselves have a big problem dealing with nonlinear angles of attack. Interested to know what any further testing reveals.

You should almost definitely put Leyline of Sanctity in the sideboard if it isn't there already.

>>50650070
>>50649044

I think it looks like it's worth a try, but I don't know that it'll do much more than Void Snare against anything except Chalices.

One problem I have with wishboards in general is that they really need to be geared toward a KO because it's very mana-intensive to use Wishes against specific threats. Not saying it's a bad idea, but I don't know how much you'll benefit. If Chalice is causing big problems, I'd just use Shattering Spree unless producing red mana is difficult.

>>50650880
>>50650658

Eldrazi's excellent against Delvers and Storm. So much gets utterly blasted by Chalice on 1.

The bad matchups are things that can work around Chalice and present a comparable clock, or that can take 16 to the face before turning around and winning. Dredge (regular and manaless), Reanimator, and fast-combo are difficult matchups, even though many of them aren't top-flight decks. The worst matchups are probably Painter and Lands. Varied mana costs, Ensnaring Bridge, and either eight Blood Moon effects or Tabernac-Chasm-Wasteland-Port.

Heavy control is no picnic, either. If you can't land that Chalice, or if your opponent's not playing a ton of 0-1-cmc spells, they've got a good shot at weathering your attacks until your hand is empty, then just valuing you out. Show and Tell is a big danger because you probably won't have anything comparable to Emrakul, the Aeons Torn, and Griselbrand can chump Smashers like a boss unless you find Dismember and they don't find Force.

Shardless can also break through relatively often from what I've read, though I haven't seen much of the matchup. Heavy discard makes it hard to maintain a board presence when they can cascade into Abrupt Decay or Ancestral Visions.

>>50651037
my biggest issue with shattering spree is that it can realistically only ever get 1 chalice because I need 3+ red sources to hit more than 1 and my deck only play 2 red lands. I'd been playing meltdown before, but it had it's own problems and only hit artifacts. I just think the fact that this hits creatures and enchantments too seems handy. I'll get some games in with it later tonight.

Spice must flow

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>>50587695
Ya it was around but it wasnt that great because mana bases used to be way more varied AND they didnt have miracles to abuse.The issue with miracles IMO is all the fucking hoops you have to jump through just to make one basic play. Right off the bat you have to worry that their top 3 might say no, then you have to worry about the metric fuckton of counters they run possibly being in their hand, then you have to make sure your not playing a 1 drop because its an auto nope. Its bullshit imo. Ban counter balance. You wont hurt any other deck. They can still abuse miracles and mentor with tops. They just wont have a security blanket of auto nope one drops and top 3 counters. They can still run all their other control stuff, they just actually have to have a response in order to play one. I honestly think the idea of top+miracle cards is really cool but most people arnt even doing that anymore. They just stall out with countertop and win with jace or mentor because its safer most of the time. If they still want some kind of lockout, they can just fucking run chalice like every other fucking deck dose now.

>>50642205
>earth crisis
yeah i 'member earth crisis!

>>50650880
>Vs. D&T you're 90/10 - you're playing the exact same game only going bigger.
this one is a lot closer than you think it is.

I just gave a DnT player 15 Drills. 30 damage straight to the dome. At the start of the turn they had a Thalia and a Sanctum Prelate. At the end of the turn they were dead. /brag

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>>50652708
>when they tutor the wrong creature with Recruiter of the Guard

>>50652772
it really helped that the Sanctum Prelate was on 1. I won the second game as well. I don't want to jinx it but I'm starting to feel like DnT may be an even or better matchup for me.

>>50652861
Mistake 1: Prelate should be on 2 against any Storm deck. ANT can't do shit without Tutor or Cabal Rit. TES can't do shit without Wish, and anyway TES goes of faster than Prelate can land anyway. None of the spells that matter in DDFT cost 1 anyway.

>>50650658
If you're looking for decks that stomp on eldrazi, try The Cure. It doesnt afraid of anything and its guys are bigger and come out faster than eldrazi's.

I think the deck has decent matchups againt storm and reanimator as its hella fast and 4x false cure can blow out G-daddy and the drils. Its less good against decks with cheap removal, and a well timed STP can entirely kill you

>>50653081
I'm actually building it. It's a good excuse to buy the Chalices and the creatures. I believe they're all going up in price very soon

>>50641320

So smug, so cute.

10/10 will play

>>50653057
I absolutely agree. Prelate on 2 is scary for storm decks. I think they didn't really know what was going on at that point because I had a Bayou and a Bloodstained mire and a SDT and wasn't really playing much. Still, if I was on some Jund deck, Prelate on 2 turns off Decay and Goyf and Confidant among other things, so 1 is probably the wrong choice no matter how you look at it.

>>50653105
Im planning on it being my first legacy deck. After i buy a computer. and go to europe.

>>50637138
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOvZKJlrtk8
a singleton of pithing needle in goblins just for those moments that you just want to fuck a deck out of nowhere, god people immediately get paranoid as shit when it happens.

>>50637138
Playing 1 Lim-Dul's Vault as a catch all digging tool for sb cards. 1 Silas Renn is pretty sweet, casting a countered chalice or just casting Strixes to chump and draw is great if he connects.

>>50653654
>>50653654
>>50653654
New thread

>>50653146
Sorry I wasn't able to play XMage this weekend. I'll try to get on tomorrow night. I'll post in here first, look for a post around 8pm US EST.