How do you play a capital-G Good necromancer? >requirement:

Animating the dead to fight for you does not make you evil.
Aragorn did it, and Aragorn is LG.

>>50541639
>>50541639
Check out the Dunmer in Morrowind. Necromancy is a big part of their thing and they usually leave some zombies and ghosts to keep their family tombs safe.

The first story I ever wrote was about short lived elves living in the desert because after thousands of years the forests had vanished as the climate changed because reasons. The desert was plagued with crazy necromancers, ghosts, bandits, other tribes, and all kinds of weird creatures. Reanimating the dead to help defend the tribe was a necessity, and the priests who did it were highly regarded.

You´re probably thinking about your typical European fantasy setting, which has plenty of Christian undertones and the dead are supposed to stay dead.


It´s all about the surrounding culture.

1) Play in a system/setting where necromancy is not automatically Capital-E Evil as it does not require filling corpses with raw elemental Evil to animate them.
2) Put the undead towards Good ends.

Congrats you're no longer playing D&D; you're welcome.

File: tsethgsetghwghegh.png (796KB, 1912x4838px) Image search: [Google]

796KB, 1912x4838px

>>50541639
We already done this at least once.

Jolly Old Man and the line of Caretakers are LG as can be.

>>50541673
Aragorn did not animate them though

By not playing dnd

>>50541748
Yes he did.

They spent hundred of years in those forbidden hills doing sweet fuck all.

They started moving because Aragorn came along and commanded them to.

File: truth.jpg (76KB, 831x445px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 831x445px

I'm sure OP just wants an answer to a question, and is not implying a complaint about any particular game.
I'm sure this will be a civil and intellectually honest discussion, full of ideas I've never seen before.

>>50541828
They were moving before he ordered them to do shit
likely killed other dudes who tried ordering them around without right given the warnings and the modus operandi

>>50541639
There's a LN kingdom ruled by an undead elite (necrocracy? tanatocracy?) in which necromancers are an aspect of everyday life. Sure,the reanimate the dead (and because of that reason most religions reprove this place),but they only reanimate criminals and their own people (who are cool with it because most of the labour force is formed by undead,and they see as giving back to their homeland what it gave them in their lives); war criminals are respected until their fairly judged,and there are graveyards for the foreigners in the biggest cities,which are respected by all law-abbiding citizens.

So,a Good aligned necromancer is who uses his necromantic powers for good,not selfish or trivial reasons. Rising a bunch of skeletons to defend a village is a good reason; doing the same to kill and plunder said village,isn't. In the end,I see it as self-sacrifice,generous character, who uses the power of undeath to help people around him,no matter the cost and even if that can damn his soul forever in certain Afterlives.

>>50541639
To quote the Tome of Necromancy, you have two options, and the core rules are sort of ambivalent which is the case, leading to confusion on the matter.

> Moral Option 1: The Crawling Darkness
> Many DMs will choose to have Negative Energy in general, and undead in particular, be inherently Evil. So much so that we can capitalize it: Evil. And say it again for emphasis: Evil. That means that when you cast a negative energy wave you are physically unleashing Evil onto the world. When you animate a corpse, you are creating a being whose singular purpose is to make moral choices which are objectionable on every level. That’s a big commitment. It means that anyone using Inflict Wounds is an awful person, at least while they are doing it. The Plane of Negative Energy is in this model the source of all Evil, more so than the Abyss or Hell. It’s Evil without an opinion, immorality in its purest most undiluted form.

> Moral Option 2: Playing with Fire
> Many DMs will choose to have Negative Energy be a base physical property of the magical universe that the D&D characters live in – like extremes of Cold or Fire it is inimical to life, and it is ultimately no more mysterious than that. An animate skeleton is more disgusting and frightening to the average man than is a stone golem, but it’s actually a less despicable act in the grand scheme of things because a golem requires the enslavement of an elemental spirit and a skeleton has no spirit at all. The Plane of Negative Energy in this model is precisely the same as all the other elemental planes: a dangerous environment that an unprotected human has no business going to.

>>50541639
Depends on the setting

>>50542659
So step one is to get your DM on board with the "Playing with Fire" interpretation, and step two is to go ahead and make a necromancer. You can even do so as a non-Death Cleric, under that interpretation, without violating your Good alignment.

>>50541639
You only animate the dead who have given you explicit permission to do so, either before they died or through use of a Speak with Dead spell. This permission has to be freely given because they believe in your cause and not the result of any threats or material compensation, which would unfairly pressure the poorest and most desperate people into selling their bodies.

>>50541639
1. Reanimation is voluntary.
2. The Necromancer sees reanimation, having your soul returned to the mortal world, as a last chance for sinners to repent and avoid eternal damnation.
3. The undead are free to quit being undead at any given time.
4. The undead are exclusively, or at least to the best of our ability, doing good actions like caring for the needy, doing hard labour, or serving the Faith.

>>50541639
I now really want to play a 'Necromancer' who has a crazy twist on necromancy magic where every spell is basically a reversed version of the normal necromantic spells.

>Rather than making opponents flee in Fear / Terror he instead leaves them defenseless in a state of Bliss / Ecstasy
>Rather than Raise Dead his spells instead Bury Living creatures.
>Rather than Speak with Corpses he Mutes the Living.
>All of his drain life spells instead infuse people with death energy.
>Rather than Sapping someones Strength he causes a form of Empowerment that makes others to become dramatically strong and tear themselves apart.

When you think about this all of a sudden he's actually become more terrifying than regular necromancers are.

>>50542742
That sounds quite nice. A character like that could wander from village to village, looking for volunteers or the dying.

You could even build a campaign where two warring families reanimated many previous generations to help build their castles and now want to use the undead to destroy each others castles.
It would give adventurers and interesting angle: Side with House A, Side with House B, or side with the Undead and destroy both for ruining all the work of the previous generations.

>>50542822
You just described a bunch of bard spells anon

Ezekiel connected dem dry bones,
Ezekiel connected dem dry bones,
Ezekiel in the Valley of Dry Bones,
Now hear the word of the Lord.

The core problem would be down to each game and the source of the magic the reanimates life.

Usually its some nebulously pool of dark energy that is by default evil and corrupt. Or it rips someones soul from the afterlife to perform some shit task like soak up a fireball or guard a tomb for eternity.

So its either naivety or greater good element which wouldnt make you LG.

However if your setting has some freedom, you could base your necromancer as someone who asks willing participants to become undead for a limited purpose. A society full of skeleton miners, builders and farmers could provide a great deal of added free labour for everyone. The energy thing should be left up to the air whether its good or evil and certainly dont touch upon the idea that the reanimated are still the same people.

>>50543050
In his vision, the Ezekiel actually rezzed them. They weren't undead.

It depends on the setting.

Perhaps they could create mutual pacts; a sentient soul who lives again, who wants to enjoy life again, and agrees to serve the necromancer on certain terms.

Maybe it's a fanatical culture whose necromancers reincarnate heathens so their souls can attain entry to heaven through acts of, forced, service.

Maybe the dead naturally rise anyway, and necromancy at-least checks them to some kind of service.

1. Have bad taste and ignore thematics.
And I think that's about it.

>>50541639
i'm presently playing a not!egyptian necromancer as a reincarnated queen who brought her entourage along with her to the next life. She just has their souls jump into nearby uninhabited corpses to fight for her.

>>50541639
He animated the dead once to try and bring back a loved one with terrible results. Now he's devoted his knowledge of necromancy to destroying undead and evil necromancers.

Raising undead is a last resort in case he's heavily outnumbered and would protect a lot more innocents by getting a small squad of skeletons to hold the line, but he always pays proper penance afterwards and does his best to sanctify any dead he used.

File: 1394870877322.jpg (133KB, 894x894px) Image search: [Google]

133KB, 894x894px

On a sort of related note, I've often seen talk about society where undead are used for free manual labour or military, as if they were sort of general purpose robots to take care of cities. How would this work in practice? I can't help but imagine all of the diseases that would spread from all the shambling corpses and all of the jobs that would be displaced, necessitating that everyone have some sort of higher education because all of the unskilled labour is done by zombies. Not to mention, wouldn't people object to their dearly beloved family member being made into a automaton? Maybe we can gloss over that just to say that the society in question has already accepted it.

>>50541639
Necromancy is always evil, and you're gonna catch fines from the union if they catch you using zombies to better mankind. They have an image to maintain.

>>50541639
A necromancer who worships a god of "The Dead" rather than "Death". He slays tomb robbers, takes the departed to a worthy grave, and lets a dying warrior's body rise up one last time for his beloved country, goes to disaster zones and uses skeletons to save people from horribly-flooded areas.

>>50545599
Also destroys wrongly used undead because they´re an affront to his god.

>>50541639
There's that one /tg/ storytime about a player in a solo campaign over IRC whose Necromancer raised the dead to work the fields, etc. so the peasants could do more like study, etc. Same Necromancer then started taking on apprentices, passing down techniques and policies on using undead for good.

Unbeknowst to the Necro's player, his DM was running a campaign with another bunch of players who are basically hunting this legendary 'evil lich' who had populated the countryside with zombies and skellingtons. They scoured the land, one town at a time, killing undead and eventually, the 'evil' necromancers commanding the undead. Elsewhere, at the end of his campaign, the solo player's Necromancer is old and ready to enter into the afterlife, but checks on his legacy one final time. He is aghast to discover that all his apprenta are dead, his work undone, the people he liberated from ignorance returned to it. The other players' party eventually finds his lair, ready for the confrontation of their lives, only to find an old, miserable man, weeping in lamentation at what they had done for the sake of 'good.'

Pic is in my computer, so couldnt post. Sorry.

>>50545309
The Necromancers of Thay, in the FR setting, actually do this. They have something like legally acquirable corpses such as executed prisoners which they can, once raised, basically use as servitors/slaves/etc.

>>50541828
Technically, their king ordered them to act with Aragorn requesting their king to act. Both points are kind of moot since they were kept animated by the curse of Aragorn's ancestor.

>>50541639
Haven't we had a thread about this before? Wasn't there some writefaggotry about a necromancer that uses his own family's ghosts to empower his necromacy?
And his family kept complaining about everything?

>>50541851
Name a system or setting where necromancy that involves raising the dead and shit isn't evil by default. Just because something is a problem in DnD doesn't mean it isn't a wider problem.

File: 1475471236332.jpg (103KB, 630x617px) Image search: [Google]

103KB, 630x617px

>>50542679
I actually use this model in my 5e setting. The main overarching plot is that there is a prophecy of a sleeping/banished evil entity returning to bring ruin to the world and rule over the burning rubble, going about this by 'uniting' several powerful lich/necromancer overlords and the undead armies they command. Main char is a relatively young wizard who becomes involved in that obscure prophecy that practically no one even acknowledges exists, and takes it upon himself to become a master Necromancer because his fallback plan is to assume/usurp command of the undead armies himself and turn it against the doombringer.

really just wanted to make an Ainz-type LG character

>>50546729
Oh yeah, I remember that.

>>50543137
Didn't he 'give them life' instead of 'returning life' into them?

>>50541639
Undead > Robots
How would you use robots to improve life?

File: graveguard.jpg (2MB, 3000x2700px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 3000x2700px

>>50545309

I've considered this as well for settings. So far in the city I am thinking of, not as much of the menial labor is done by the undead, but the majority of their standing army and their guards are while officers are all living.

In this city, by merit of choosing to live there as a citizen under the protection of the city-state you give the government the right to use your corpse/remains in times of war/emergency by default. You can volunteer your corpse for immediate use upon death in order to give a one time stipend/reward for your family; this can be done immediately or after you've lived your natural life, provided your body can be brought to the necromancers if you die outside of the city.

File: 00018456_medium.jpg (64KB, 639x426px) Image search: [Google]

64KB, 639x426px

>>50547252

Also, in order to avoid disease, all bodies are "cleaned" and essentially only skeletons are used as the fighting force. Zombies are used as a kind of "break in case of emergency" plan as decoys/meatsheilds/tarpits for huge battles or city-wide evacuation due to disaster.

And in order to make it seem more "normal", the skeleton army are clothed head-to-toe with full face masks like in this pic.

>>50541738
>I'M NOT SUFFERING DADDY

Oh God, right in the feels.

>>50541639
I played mine as a tactical squad commander, using small groups of powerful undead to accomplish tasks too dangerous to ask of the living. He had simply seen too much death, and decided to borrow the corpses of fallen comrades to defend the ones that were still living.

>>50547252
>>50547390

But with undead doing all of the menial, unskilled labour, won't that cause unemployment to go up? You'd need to seriously invest in Education to get skilled workers and mitigate poverty.

Brings back the dead to give them a chance to resolve any unfinished business they had, or right any wrongs that they did.

>>50541724
Asia was also pretty big into keeping the dead non-moving, tbf.

>>50541738

Holy shit how have I not seen that screencap before

>>50541639
I would say that the undead in question has to have some say in the action. If you want to bring there body back from the dead or use there spirit to do something you have to get there approval before hand and if there not available then whatever god that is in charge of the body or soul.

Why does /tg/ have such a fetish for good necromancers?

>>50550818
Because breaking stereotypes and looking at new ways to play something that hasn't been done and dusted into the cold hard ground a thousand times is something /tg/ likes.

>>50541639
do good things

>>50551052
>something that hasn't been done and dusted into the cold hard ground a thousand times
Ironically, this is exactly what /tg/ does to everything it likes

File: loli tzeentch.jpg (118KB, 400x400px) Image search: [Google]

118KB, 400x400px

>>50551470
The curse of creation, I suppose.

>>50541639
An order of men and women dedicated to bolstering the kingdom's army during the last great war. These Necromancers would frequently walk the battlefield and raise the loyal soldiers of the kingdom. While a morbid task, many scholars attribute the mages and clerics of the order in securing the victory against the Orc Lords who feared the corpse soldiers.
The undead were relieved of service after the war was over, but the order continues to aid the military and other civilian affairs by raising the dead.
>tl;dr Make raising the dead less "FOR MY EVIL DEEDS" and more "FOR MY GOOD DEEDS"

If you could do a good Necromancer, could you do a good Lich?

>>50551666
Archlich says Hello

>>50541639

a simple learned man, who studies the mysteries of life and death, a broad topic ranging from human anatomy, to medicine, and even biology. the knowledge he has learned has allowed him to break down organic matter into its constituents or even imbue it with a crude simulacrum of life.
however, he knows just how dangerous this power is, and has taken an oath to only use these powers in the pursuit of knowledge, and never to cause harm
when threatened he will reluctantly set his skeletons to attack, and throw necrotic energy beams, he will refuse to kill the attacker unless there was no choice, and his high intelligence means that there rarely is no other choice
he is constantly sharing his knowledge, writing it down in books and teaching students, and will readily jump on any chance to help his fellowman
a good man is not determined by what powers he wields, but how it is used

Necromancer raises an Order of Undying "Holy" Paladins to spread peace and prosperity in the name of the lord.

>>50548269
That's because Asian vampires make the vampires everyone else thinks of look like sparklepires.

Asian vampires are rotting corpses that leap around and can see you breathing, and they suck the life force out of your body through your mouth, possibly your blood and organs too if you're really unlucky.

There is NOTHING redeeming about Asian vampires. And we haven't even gotten into penangalan territory.

>>50550818
It's a specific couple of posters. Kind of like the shotafoxboicunt posters.

>>50541639
why is this a hard question?
just dont be an asshole, always help those in need , and always strive to be a better person

it doesnt matter if you are a paladin, barbarian, necromancer, or death cleric
as long as you are not bringing pain and suffering, conspiring to bring suffering, or overdoing it and becoming overzealous smitebot 9000, it is entirely possible for a person to be good, regardless of class or background

NO.

>>50551802
the answer to the question: "can i play this?" should never be a straight "no", since this completely locks you out of trying to develop a concept and make it interesting
a better answer is "yes, and..." since this encourages discussion, allows you to examine how to make it work, instead of dismissing it out of hand, and importantly it lets the other person have fun

>>50541639
I once played a not-Egyptian priest in a homebrew setting. The man came from a not-Millennial King nation, where the high priests were frequently undead mummies, and death was just seen as another aspect of life. He got around the 'desecrating the dead' thing by treating vanquished assholes relatively respectfully and only creating spectres/ghosts from them, so there wasn't a ton of rotting flesh falling all over the place, and they were also out of sight beneath the ground 95% of the time.

It also helped that he was a healer on top of speaking with spirits and animating dead guys. He didn't parade around the later, so everyone mostly saw him as a strange, friendly priest from a far-off land. Was a blast to play.

>>50551849
No.

Catholic priest cleric.

Reincarnation is a pervasive theme throughout catholicism. They could see it as emulating their god. At the end of the world, everybody comes back from the dead. The avatar of their god brought back the dead, a secular cult of magicians who believe bringing someone back from the dead is the closest you can get to emulating your ideal.

>>50551943
It's also sacrilege

>>50551943
true resurrection is a necromancy spell, and nobody would be particularly against that

>>50551943
Every religion promises eternal life. Delivering on that promise, filling the world with walking corpses and liches, is just what your god's going to do anyway. Angel Gabriel will literally reincarnate everyone who has ever died, ever. Why not do his work in coming for that great day? Eternal life is a blessing, death is a curable affliction.

>>50541639
Is there a lore aspect of Animate Dead? Like, does it say in the spell description that animating the dead is inherently evil?

>>50541639
A war cleric who doesn't balk at the idea of returning dead comrades to life. Only when their duty is done can his comrades lay down their arms and find a well-deserved peace.

>>50553018

It's tagged [Evil], yes.

>>50553060
You're returning them as zombies or skeletons, both of which are evil creatures.

>>50541724
>which has plenty of Christian undertones and the dead are supposed to stay dead.

That's not really an exclusively Christian thing, almost all human cultures fear the return of the dead and consider them to be monsters, along with anyone who disturbs them.

Hell, even Babylonian myth has passages about a goddess threatening to breach the gates of the underworld and release the endless numbers of the dead to consume the living so it's not a new idea either.

Humans are innately phobic of dead things. Being able to raise and command them but still being 'good' would be a hard sell in most religions, not just Abrahammic ones.

>>50541748
So commanding legions of undead is cool as long as you're not the one who animated them?

Enter LG Necromancer, plundering ancient tombs not of their riches, but of their bountiful stores of wandering zombos and skellies.

>>50553182
>Halt foul necromancer! The Paladins of Light have questions.
>Certainly m'lord, how can I help?
>These unholy undead abominations that you command, did you raise them from their rest yourself?
>Ah, no m'lord, I actually inherited them from my great-uncle, who inherited them from his father, they've been in the family for generations.
>Oh well that's ok then, carry on about your business good sir, sorry to have bothered you.
>Not at all! Good day.

>>50553018
All of the various spells that create undead are tagged with the [Evil] descriptor. What this means is that casting the spell is an evil act (this has never been adequately said whether it actually does or not, so we err in the direction of being an evil act), and its restricted to evil characters on the divine caster lists.

In addition, the creatures created are Evil themselves, and should they get loose or stop being controlled, will go on a rampage of killing and destruction to further suffering.

>>50553182
They were ghosts under a curse, as such they are can be any alignment and Aragorn had only as much control as a general has of his army. You're making some seriously bad faith arguments in trying to support your attempts to paint Aragorn as a necromancer or that necromancy could be good.

Have necromancy be a charisma based system, the necromancer does not animate and 'command' the dead to fight for him, he convincing them into doing so. So a good necromancer would have to convince animated heroes of old that his cause is worth fighting for

>>50548047
he literally said most of the menial labor is done by the living. Its just that the grunts in the military are undead and probably as intelligent as golems.

at most they'd use undead for dangerous labor.

>>50547170
Nope, they very blatantly rose from the dead as their former selves in the prime of their life.

I guess it really depends on the setting, as with all things. In D&D it might not work, but in the ES universe it all depends on cultural practices and taboos. (I use ES as an example because I know it well; it's not a traditional PnP setting).

http://uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Necromancy

>>50553337
I don't give half a shit about your stupid "Aragorn being a necromancer or not" argument. That was against another anon. All I care about is the actual topic of discussion, that being how I can use my powers to command the dead for virtuous ends.

>>50541724
>implying the sacred service of the honored ancestors is foul necromancy
Fucking filthy s'wit get out GET OUT.

>>50546729
This makes me feel. Sad old men always hit me in the feels. Prolly because I'll be in that position eventually.

File: bonewalker.png (405KB, 640x957px) Image search: [Google]

405KB, 640x957px

>>50553659
you are like little babby

watch this

REDUCE STR

>>50541738

Fucking GOLD

>>50553659
Duct taping 11 skeletons together does not make it divine magic you ashy incest elf.

>>50541639
He comes from a country where necromancy isn't simply normal, but it's supported and taught by the state. Necromancers handle all the healing, the risen do manual labour, and families regularly request seances from the state to ease their feelings or request advice from ancestors.

In his country he's an average dude, but now that he's on the road he's confused about why people take issue with him mending their flesh.

File: tmp_29053-rA8321818428998.gif (2MB, 425x319px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 425x319px

>>50553769
SKREEEEEEEEEE

>>50541639
Artifice-focus, treating the bones of those who gave consent to use prior to death, or post death via commune with spirits, animated through arcane forces rather than spiritual forces as normal people treat wood constructs. Probably painted gold or decorated for glory, and adorned with the names of those that willing gave their remains to remain a productive member of their communities, even after their time had come. Just because their spirit must depart for another world does not mean their bodies shouldn't help the world grow, and though they may give their flesh to the soil for the trees and the small creatures that need them, their bones can continue to aid in helping people prosper.
Probably a desert-themed culture for the individual, where trees are scarce and the process of making effective mining equipment is just as hard or harder than dabbling in skeleton animation.

File: the good necromancer.png (53KB, 1231x681px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 1231x681px

>>50541639
Surprised this hasn't been posted yet

Become the Abhorsen.

>>50553659
>implying the scientific art of reanimating dead animals like crabs, silt striders and khajiit is foul
If it ain't Mer, it ain't people muthsera
Telvanni WW@

>>50541639
A medic who doesnt let "they are no longer alive" stop them from saving lives, he couls also make contracts with people to use their now worthless bodies after they die to reanimate as soldiers against evil. its not like they are using the body anymore.

A good person does good things. What's so hard about that?

>>50556845
people on /tg/ believe that no matter what you do, what you believe in, or your reasoning, one you pick up a certain class you are evil

>>50556081
This

>>50557801
It's very common for necromancy to be fueled by the screaming souls of the dead and/or negative energy which is the antithesis of all life, that's kinda what sets it apart. That doesn't leave a lot of wiggle room.

>>50557880
>where does my energy come from? magic i guess
>time to go fight evil using the power of skellymans and flesh melting energy
>after that, i will go make the world a better place

>>50557880
And why is that?

>>50557914
because /tg/ likes limiting the players choices to a single interpretation

>>50557914
Because that's just the way it is. If you don't like it nobody is stopping you from playing some niche or homebrew setting where everything is morally relative.

>>50557905
Great, wonderful, you saved the world. Your alignment is still Evil because you decided to be an edgy fuck in wizard school rather than studying any of the other equally useful schools of magic that don't intrinsically involve ripping the souls of the dead from their eternal rest against their will.

>>50558009
your school of magic is a job, it doesnt define you

File: 1434076408339.jpg (116KB, 483x604px) Image search: [Google]

116KB, 483x604px

>>50541639
I always took a very keen interest in necromancy. When it comes to necromancy there are 3 types: white, grey, and black.

>white: focuses on life force energies, so youd be a oddball healer / spirit caller more or less
>grey: curses, hexes, and diseases,
>black: standard raise the dead, plagues, black robes, lichdom, etc.

The only way I could see someone playing as a good necromancer, whilst still raising the dead, would be the type of person who would raise willing subjects and bestow upon them Awaken Undead to give them their free will and intelligence back.

To be honest any sort of necromancer who would go about raising the dead would still be neutral at best unless like stated before: they are willing to be raised.

>>50558248
what if the skeletons are used for the greater good?
and are skeletons thinking beings? i thought they were merely crude simulacrums, not actually made from people

File: 1426366305676.jpg (368KB, 850x1201px) Image search: [Google]

368KB, 850x1201px

>>50558266
Greater Good is code for Lawful Evil

i would imagine skeletons possessing some intelligence but thats because Skeletal Archer always comes to mind when i think of an animated skeleton

>>50558323
what if the skeletons are used for the greater good, without killing people or oppressing anyone?
and skeletons have INT6, and are naturally proficient with the weapons they wield

>>50541639
He uses his powers for good. For instance, a young innocent woman is brutally murdered. He raises her zombie/ghost/whatnot, so she can tell them who murdered her.

File: 1424419174988.jpg (558KB, 720x932px) Image search: [Google]

558KB, 720x932px

>>50558345
sentience in dnd is determined when a creature has an intelligence of 4 or more.

as for the greater good without murder and oppression. the act of raising the dead is still considered evil by default so at best youd be neutral

>>50558364
you dont need to raise them in order to get the information. you need to just cast Speak With Dead.

>>50558375
even if you are Mr Rogers who uses skeletons?

File: 1415002250593.jpg (16KB, 288x288px) Image search: [Google]

16KB, 288x288px

>>50558385

File: Why animate dead is evil.png (18KB, 1586x341px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 1586x341px

>>50558385
There is nothign good about raising undead in D&D because undead are self aware, evil, and mindless.

Vermin are mindless but neutral - they act on their hunger.

Undead are mindless but evil - they act on their evil.

Uncontrolled undead do not just sit there and do nothing. They act on their evil impulses because they have enough will to act on their own.

>>50558428
didnt 5e remove alignment restrictions on spells?

>>50547007
One of the Through the Breach one-offs has a sympathetic necromancer, that whole setting is shades of grey though

>>50553116

Yeah we're so phobic of dead things, thats why most cultures have a fucking festival to honour the dead.

>>50558428

How can you be mindless and evil? A

>>50541738
Saved like a motherfucking boss!

>>50541639
If raising the dead is evil, it's impossible.

If raising the dead is not evil, it's easy.

>>50543035
So bards are antinecromancers?

>>50546729
Sounds like a great plot for a Zombicide game.

>>50545309
The most bizarre thing is that the novel Dr. Frankenstein was inspired by the eras scientists who were actively trying to find out how to reanimate the dead to be what we in modern day times would consider robots. And do all of the things that we use robots and machines for now.

Although they never truly succeeded, their scientific breakthroughs led to a LOT of our modern day inventions, like those paddles you use to get someones heart beating again.

>>50541639
Ghost Whisperer. People need closure (or need to know where grampa buried the money) and a Necromancer can help them with that.

Some spirits need closure, too. They roam around because they never got to do something in life that will give them rest. A cleric just destroys undead and then says "go in peace", what a hypocrite! A necromancer at least listens to them! Some spirits are absolutely evil so a Necromancer needs to get their attention with Chill Touch and give them a spiritual slap on the wrist. He's like a nanny for the undead.

Or maybe he's a gravedigger and needs something to protect himself because the restless dead are at it again~

File: WizardOfTwoSides.jpg (296KB, 2310x2113px) Image search: [Google]

296KB, 2310x2113px

>>50541639
I'm currently playing a Necromancer who uses his expertise and ability to speak to the death to exterminate "wild" undead and to help lost spirits pass on. Even in settings where creating Undead is Capital E Evil, it's possible to play a Good Necromancer, you just gotta get creative.

By playing in 4e or 5e?

File: good lich.png (72KB, 300x250px) Image search: [Google]

72KB, 300x250px

come up with a normal "good" character
done? slap the ability to raise dead
if done correctly, you will have changed little of what makes your character while still making them a necromancer

>>50558498
See thing? Kill thing. Why? Doesn't matter. Kill. Kill. Kill.

>>50559809
This just in: fire is Evil.

>>50541673
To be fair, Aragon used them exactly as much as he felt he had to, and the immediately dismissed them, rather than have them march into Mordor with him as would have been the obvious choice. They were clearly still useful, but they were also clearly suffering, and just wanted to rest in peace.

As a GM, Aragon would have been put at Lawful Neutral at that moment, unless he made a good case for himself. Not letting them go would definitely have given him the Lawful Neutral alignment. He is making them suffer because he needs them, that is "by any means necessary" tier of douchebaggery, and most certainly not good. It is also not evil, granted, but at the end of LotR, calling Aragon "Good with a capital G" is seriously stretching it.

You also have to realize that the retarded alignment system isn't meant to penalise you - being neutral isn't a bad thing.

>>50559852
Fire is a chemical process subject to the objective, impartial rules of physics.

If you start a fire in a room containing a bunch of papers, a stone statue, and a child, the fire will ignite the paper, warm the statue, and burn the child, which may or may not be fatal depending on the size of the fire and how far the child can get from it. Fire does not respond to the child's attempts to flee, nor to the state's resilience.

Put a skeleton in the same starting room and it will ignore the statue and papers in order to attack the child. A skeleton will respond to attempts to flee or fight back by chasing or combating.

Fire follows a process which makes no consideration of life or limb. It is dangerous but amoral. A skeleton actively seeks life to end.

>>50560068
A skeleton limits its activities to a specific kind of matter. Fire destroys and kills indiscriminately. Fire is more evil than a skeleton.

>>50559894
Now, forgive me, it's been a very long time since I've read the books or watched the movies, but didn't Aragorn making use of them actually satisfy the conditions of their curse, allowing them to be freed at all? Continuing to use them after that is morally dubious at best, but using an army of Undead to fight Evil, while simultaneously allowing for their release from a supernatural torture sounds Good as fuck to me.

But I'm probably misremembering anyways.

>>50559773
The answer to "Hey guys how do I do this thing?" is not "Go eat literal shit."

>>50560133
Other way around. Indiscriminate acts are inherently neutral, because they are fair and unbiased in their effects. A landslide is neutral because it doesn't know what or care who or what it's rolling over, it just follows the path of least resistance that physics sets out for it.

A selective force which supercedes mere physical inclination is biased towards a particular goal or action, and can therefore be judged good or evil by the merits of that action. An entity which selectively destroys only life is evil because the wanton destruction of life is in itself an evil act.

>>50560133
Fire has no moral agency, and therefore is incapable of being right or wrong.

>>50560229
thats not FATAL

>>50560133
having a wide variety to what you can do actually makes you less evil.
hitler was evil cause jews, stalin was acually less evil because multiple groups of people were affected even though he killed 5 times as many

>>50560159
It has been some years for me also but I believe you are right. The victory of the battle fulfilled their oaths and so they were unbound.

Of course if I had been Aragorn and given the option I would have made it abundantly clear that I would not considered their oaths fulfilled until the Dark Tower lay in ruin, it's lord brought low and it armies scattered and broken.

Then their sworn service to the crown is over, their duty completed.

>>50560243
But if a skeleton is mindless, it cannot have moral agency, and is therefore not evil.

>>50560246
My point precisely.

>>50541639
>necromancy is fueled by making shards of the necromancer's own ka to revitalize the body's sheut
>excess negative energy from the body is dispersed back into the shadow plane by the sheut, while the fragment of the user's ka keeps it moving
Congratulations, the two parts of undead summoning that D&D canonically considers evil are countered.

>>50560159
You are correct. The men under the mountain or whatever they were called made a promise to help Gondor and the Elves go fuck up Sauron, but they ran away like a bunch of children.

So they got cursed to be green ghoulies until they actually did their part in a battle beside the King of Men, holder of Narsil.

>>50560290
although, in the name of less railroading, good/neutral necromancers are now available

>>50560280
A dog is mindless. Stop confusing mindlessness with inanimacy.

>>50560325
But a skeleton is even dumber than a dog. How is it not mindless? If a dog is too mindless to have an alignment, so is a skeleton.

>>50541639
Id figure most necromancers start out with well enough intentions.

Then they face the frustrations that are the pain or lack thereof of the inteligent undead, how poorly they compete with the more accepted magics and the stress most likely break down their sense of morals and sanity.

Then those that do manage to stay good get backstabbed for being inneficient, necesary for an evil horde.

>>50560382
what about a necromancer who just studies the mysteries of life and death, and for whom magical power is a side effect of learning more about the universe?

>>50560390
Limited resources and lacking results, pressing them into depression or desperation.
Most common end: Starving to death in their own cellar high on absinth.

>>50560415
he could be a scholar, since the hallmark of any wizard is being highly analytical and careful study of anything they put their mind to, and the arts of necromancy would make him valuable to anyone who wants to know more about anatomy, biology, life processes, etc.

>>50560390
That's actually what I'm playing in my 4e game right now. Or, rather, that's what he WANTED to be before he got sucked into the group of Big Damn Heroes.

>>50560465
you cant learn more about the world, and what wonders it possess, if its gone

>>50560390
Reinventing a wheel a bit though considering healing magic.
Which isnt even about the dead, simply keeping people from being dead.

>>50560476
cleric magic? thats just praying to gods to make the bleeding stop
we want to learn more about the human body, about the true nature of life, and where ever there is life there is also death, 2 sides of the same coin, healing by knowing every vein, artery, muscle, and sinew is far different from healing done by faith

>>50560441
Not in a world that scorns necromancy.

And if thats not a thing then why argue about how one can be good. Dont see pyromancers getting killed on the spot, even tough its destructive capabilities.

>>50560501
small minds always fear what do they dont understand

>>50560497
But healing isnt just done by clerics, its cheaper for them sure.

But a wizard specializing in healing would study the body and its health long before necromancers, healing comes before death.

I think necromancers as loaners of other schools, a finger in a lot of pies for a generally borin result.

>>50560474
Oh, well, of course. But he's very much the reluctant hero because all he wanted to do was the whole "wandering scholar" bit and learn more about Necromancy where no one would really notice. But he got sucked into a group of legit heroes and despite the fact that he's a scholar, an expert in magic that's pretty fucking forbidden, and gifted with the ability to see and interact with spirits of both life and death, he's still somehow the straight man who is consistently flabbergasted by the extraordinary events he regularly participates in that the rest of the party treats as more or less just another day.

It's actually pretty great and one of my favorite characters to date.

>>50558491
Your favorite grandparent is still your favorite and you love them. But you want them to know that so they don't decide to visit.
The dead can usually visit for a night but anymore lowers the property values so please don't come back. That's what those festivals are. Even Jesus stayed dead he just need to make brief point.

>>50560526
It's not just healing, thats a side effect, its about knowing about the neverending cycle of life and death
studying death, why people die at all, is just as important as life
those who fear death, instead of welcoming it, are the ones who end up becoming dark liches to prevent it from coming
things like decay are seemingly unnatural, but it is important to refresh the soil, and not be knee deep in death, and by studying it you learn things like chill touch
learning about life, at first allows you to creat crude copies, like skeletons, but as your mastery improves you begin to hone it better allowing a true natural way to prolong your life, such as clone

File: 11295533_714881015290533_4227468130680771081_n.jpg (51KB, 640x640px) Image search: [Google]

51KB, 640x640px

A cleric from a farm god that uses skelingtons to do the heavy lifting so that farmer can just sit back and chill

>>50560512
Thats simplifying it a bit, there might be legit reasons to shun it, like with pyromancy, gire spreads and can do little good (outside some crestive thinking). Paladins of dousing would soon appear to deal with them.

Unrelated but ive been thinking about some solid negatives for undeath: Inteligence and awarrness in a dead body. Imagine the pain a zombie not lobotomized to hell would feel. A skeleton would be feeling nothing, absolute void and cold. It would be a terrifying life, never quite aware, always sort of watching trough eyes that dont feel like yours.

>>50558037
>Being a Cartel/ISIS/Mob member is a job, it doesn't define you

I'm pretty sure it does.

>>50541639
Ok a Cleric that makes unrepented foes into undead servants as a "In death you can serve good"

>>50560624
You'd think a farm god would be all "Work with your own dang hands ya varmint" and raise his omnipotent blunderbuss to smite ye unfaithfull.

Also a golem multipurpose harvester?

>>50541639
It is entirely reliant on the setting, but not in the broad "in this setting necromancy isn't evil!" crap but in the "in this desolate island the border between life and death is thin and the dead walk with the living until their flesh rots and their spirit breaks" set piece giving the cultural influences for a necromancer to be a normal thing and not just the venue of shitty wizards who want to live forever.

>>50560643
it is hard to believe, but many of them have lives outside of that profession, and may be rather amicable or even decent people outside their horrible job, and were forced into it due to circumstances outside their control

insane sadists do exist in disproportionate number within those groups, but most of them are normal humans, either induced or coerced away from what could have been peaceful lives, to serve a violent organization

File: mffwnyi1891qefuc2o1400.gif (500KB, 339x200px) Image search: [Google]

500KB, 339x200px

>>50560624
>Livestock and farmhands gain nourishment from the crops
>When they die, they're raised as servitors to continue working the land
>When the magic wears out, their bones are ground into bonemeal to fertilise the crops, which then nourish the next generation of farmhands and livestock
I can see this working in a circle-of-life kind of way.

>>50560692
And that does not matter once you join a inherently evil group. If you protect people that behead others because religion/money or whatever, even if you don't /really/ want to, you're still doing evil deeds.

Not all Nazis were evil, but they literally fought for a evil regime.

>>50558498
/pol/?

>>50560720
meants

>German soldiers during WW2
instead of
>Nazis

>>50560667
depends on the good's focus, maybe he doesnt care that much about work as he does about the farmers not getting a hernia

also golems are harder to make as far as i remember? making a few skeletons seems like an easy way to do that

>>50560761
a god of harvest like Ceres,who loved and cared for people, would be totally for any labor saving device, even skellies

>>50560761
Well, factory robots are harder to maintain and cost more to set in but still get more out of them thsn human workers.

They would be either for the rich with several farms on their name or for the clever entrepenour breaking the bone dry traditions.

File: Animist Pest Control.png (104KB, 1325x651px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 1325x651px

Some necromancer design from a while back.

>>50548047
>>50553421
It's kind of a different story compared to real-world economics because you literally don't need to pay skeletons. Having buckets of gold to throw at education is a lot more feasible in that case than in a world with minimum wage.

>>50556081
>>50557831
>ctrl+f Abhorsen
>only two patricians in the thread
yes

>>50558248
To be fair usually that's just called "magic" and what you term "black" is the only thing most universes actually call necromancy.

>>50547074
>liking Overlord
I see you have objectively terrible taste

File: necro.jpg (100KB, 636x499px) Image search: [Google]

100KB, 636x499px

>>50541639
I guess by only raising the willing?

>>50541724
>the sacred service of the honoured ancestors
In my mind this would do it

>>50541639
How do you play a capital-G Good Demon summoner based on damning souls forever to hell?

Requirement:Hangs out with LITERAL SATAN
Hard mode: Demons enbody destruction too a point, devils embody enslaving and pain to a point.

>>50545309
You can cut down on the rot with embalming but embalming on that scale would shift the economy around.

>>50560924
be like the dovahkiin from skyrim
>summon dremora
>literal demon who loves to fight and kill
>still end up saving the world

>>50560830
Unlike factory robots, farming is a bit too complex for simple commands. Also you cant just find the right kind of bone when the dry bones start to snap.

>>50560938
So the ends justify the means?
Cool.

>>50560234
>>50560243
>>50560280
>>50560325
>>50560376
Neither has moral agency and both are neutral, but the morality passes to the creator of a neutral force that causes harm. That's why we distinguish between arson and accidental fires. If you set a fire, and the fire causes harm, you cause harm, with the fire as your tool.

There are no accidental animate skeletons, so skeletons that cause harm are always deliberately harmful on the part of the creator. If skeletons, like fire, tend to cause harm with their bony rampages, then the necromancer can be reasonably assumed to know that will happen, and take responsibility.

However I dig any world that allows for "whoops, accidental skeletons" and has actual explanation.

>>50560951
Depends on the __means__.

>>50560951
the dovahkiin can vary widely depending on how you play him, the only constant is that you save the world
whether daedra use is
>evil shortcut to victory
or
>a tool used by mages
is up to you i suppose
demon summoning is generally frowned upon, but is otherwise not restricted

>>50560957
>However I dig any world that allows for "whoops, accidental skeletons" and has actual explanation.
Mine is that magic is a constant, unnafected by most natural laws on and off. So while the planet rotates bubbles of necromantic energies dont and once in a while, certain skeletons get blooped by a passing cloud of nasty magic waste.

It also tie in constelation and such since it divinates when the world is passing trough big bubbles.

>>50560788
>bone dry traditions

i like you

>>50560999
You might like The Night Land. It's not about necromancy, it's more of a turn-of-the-century bridge between Verne and Lovecraft. It does, however, have "telluric lines" of magic within the earth, used as a power source, and reality warp fuel.

>>50541673
They were animated by a curse that responded to Aragorn's blood. He let them complete their duty so they could be free. He didn't imprison souls to the mortal plane against their will; he helped them leave.

>>50560951
yes
outside of dnd

>>50561128
go home tarkin, dont you have a superweapon to bring world peace to build

>>50560972
>demon summoning is generally frowned upon,
So like necromancy.

>>50561155
yeah, other than some badmouthing, they dont do anything unless you attack

>>50560941
You'd definitely need an overseer watching the undead all day. On the flip side, that one overseer is effectively doing the work of maybe a dozen men so there's a massive upswing to output.

>>50557880
Negative energy isn't evil.

Going to the plane of positive energy will kill you as fast as going to the plane of negative energy.

>>50541639
I guess by having everyone you raise give you permission to raise them, but not through bribery, threat, blackmail or extortion.

Or just fluff the setting to allow for Good Necromancers. You're (presumably) the GM, you decide the rules!

>>50561311
You know that undead cannot be commanded by anyone who isn't a necromancer with power over the undead, right?

>>50558563
Bright and happy, cares about sex, interested in the living, plays music.
Kind of yeah.

>>50560243
Skeletons are incapable of doing anything they aren't commanded to. If they're killing people for going near them/an area, it's because they're commanded to kill people who go to that area.

>>50560957
>However I dig any world that allows for "whoops, accidental skeletons" and has actual explanation.

My setting doesn't really have accidental skellies, if only because all undead need a soul to animate them. Unless the person willingly wanted their soul transferred to a skeleton, it is evil because it needs special controlling magic to maintain control of it, otherwise it just gets turned into a free-willed undead with the soul in control of it.

The only "kill indiscriminately" skeletons happen when an undead is raised in a specific area without a soul used, where one just seems to pop into existence to fill the corpse without rhyme or reason. They're easier to control, but far more dangerous if the necromancer loses control.

The actual reason is that location is where the the border between the world and the void where a lovecraftian horror is weakest, and raising undead there without a soul is basically stuffing bits and pieces of a life-hating eldritch abomination into a corpse, which it doesn't appreciate.

Because the gods believe souls are their property, all of them, even the evil one, hates necromancy, and it's one of the few things they can all agree on.

>>50560476
Before 3e, healing magic was considered Necromancy

>>50560570
>Even Jesus stayed dead he just need to make brief point.

To be a bit nitpicky, he didn't actually stay dead. He died, brought himself back to life, then ascended to heaven.

>>50560761
Golems generally involve building some body made out fo whateer material you need to, then grabbing an elemental and stuffing it in there, forcing it to act as a power source for your mud robot so it can pull weeds from your garden.

Making golems is way more evil than animating a bunch of corpses.

>>50541639
>How do you play a capital-G Good necromancer?
By playing him in a Setting that doesn't violently rip out the souls of the deceased from the paradise/hell of their own choosing and sticks them back into their rotting bodies where they reside in agony for all eternity.

>>50562550
So any official setting then.

>>50562550
I dunno ripping a soul out of hell to let them back on earth doesn't seem so bad.

Assuming they arent massive dicks who deserve every second of roasting in hell anyway

>>50541639

Depends a bit, if your DM gives you that Necromancy isn't inherently edgelord magic powered by tormented souls and all that shit, it's super easy.

I'm currently set to play an LG necromancer in the near future, who's kind of a standard LG murder hobo. Hre kills the bad things with his pet skelebros, offers peasant girls rides on zombies etc.

Of course the villagers want to torch me, but I'M good.

>>50548047
Just kill the excess workers and make them undead.

>>50561845
All the more reason to train more necromancers.

Lots more necromancers.

I mean seriously, you'd have a good chunk of the population knowing Command Undead by the time the zombie economy is in full swing.

>Playing Great Old One warlock
>Rather than raising dead in the usual way raise them by filling them with spoopy space squid willpower
>Instead of being animated by necrotic energy they're animated by psychic energy
Main difference is that if I lose control they drop dead instead of going rogue and they're much more clever- at least when I concentrate on controlling them.

Basically instead of dumb minions you order theyre puppets you directly control.

File: carlos-nunez-ruiz-necro2-sub.jpg (268KB, 887x1102px) Image search: [Google]

268KB, 887x1102px

Something like Van Hohenheim in Full Metal Alchemist were you commune with the dead and gain their permission and understanding to re-animate them. Or maybe a character who's family thought them necromancy so that they could keep protecting their loved ones after they died.

Hardmode I'd say something like a viking like culture where they believe there is always battles to be fought or whatever.

>>50560656
Serves a deity of purification. Deity leads him to the corpses of criminals who actually DO regret their deeds but were unable to feel they repaid their debt to society. With their permission, he reanimates their corpse and lets their spirit haunt (but not control) it. They are witness to the good deeds they did in death, and are thus able to pass on, now to the Purifier's realm as their afterlife, a world of somber paradise.

He also goes to angry spirits and offers them similar, purging the rage that binds them by way of becoming an undead to right the wrongs... for the price of their services. You work for me for a little while and you can have your justice.

He offers to work for governments, disposing of their executed criminals in one way or another. In these cases, he takes those that refuse to work for him, and uses their corpses for material components and building materials, making repairs to his longer term minions to keep them viable longer. Waste not, want not.

Our priest of the Unburdener goes around the world: righting wrongs the law can't, saving souls that are beyond an evangelist's grasp, protecting the innocent, and exorcising ghosts. Sounds like a Capital G Good guy.

I prefer making my good-aligned necromancers have the personality of the Soul Cairn from the Elder Scrolls. Specifically the BATTLESPIRE version, not Skyrim's shitty knockoff.

Basically necromancer hippies who are trying to, through necromancy, create an eternal paradise of "love and peace" where everyone gets to "live" forever without sorrow.

I am currently playing a very lazy necromancer who summons skeletons to carry his shit and fight his fights for him. He helps people with their problems and questions they have for their beloved dead, for the right price.

>>50551914
You're a turbofaggot.

>>50543414
>an idea can only have one thematic purpose no matter what story it's in

Okay Shakespeare

>>50541639
You could do what the knights of the ebin blade did in wow and bring heroes of ages past back to life to fight some kind of evil thing.

My last character was a Lawful Neutral necromancer small business owner who leaned heavily towards acting good since acting like a dick tends to ruin your reputation.

He "Employed" his skeletons as his workers.

>>50560159
You were correct. It should be mentioned that, in the books, Aragorn doesn't even ask them to fight in Minas Tirith. They're free after the corsairs are defeated and Aragorn has a fleet to go help the city.

>>50541639
>How do gud Necromancer

Two words: Read Sabriel.

>>50569572

>Read Sabriel.

If I may respond with two more words ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSrTnWDTdwI

>>50560376
What about a skeleton dog?

>>50541673
>Cunt! I'M YOUR FUCKING KING HELP ME YOU LITTLE FAGGOT SHIT.
Vs
>Cunt! Get your soul pulled into this corpse, help me you little slave shit.

>>50558525
haha le epic xdd

>>50561743
But you need more positive energy to kill someone than negative.

>>50573586
>But you need more positive energy to kill someone than negative.
Actually, if you wanna get nitpicky...

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/planes.htm

Under Positive Dominant

> In addition, those at full hit points gain 5 additional temporary hit points per round. These temporary hit points fade 1d20 rounds after the creature leaves the major positive-dominant plane. However, a creature must make a DC 20 Fortitude save each round that its temporary hit points exceed its normal hit point total. Failing the saving throw results in the creature exploding in a riot of energy, killing it.

Assuming you're at full hit points, the positive energy plane will kill you just as fast as the negative energy plane.

>>50573667
Also from that link...

>Positive Energy Plane
> Despite the beneficial effects of the plane, it is one of the most hostile of the Inner Planes. An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as positive energy is force-fed into her. Then, her mortal frame unable to contain that power, she immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova.

Jeez, the Positive Energy Plane is starting to sound more like of a deadly hell-hole than the Negative Energy Plane.

>>50558428
How can you be self-aware and mindless?

>>50574583
if you think of positive and negative in terms of yin and yang, as primordial energies with bo alignment, then it makes a bit more sense
both yin and yang are the energies that drive the universe, both needing each other to exist, and both containing a bit of the other

>>50564589
>Battlespire
Confirmed for having great taste.

File: Bonewalker greater.jpg (229KB, 1280x1041px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 1280x1041px

>The departed spirits of the Dunmeri, and perhaps those of all races, persist after death. The knowledge and power of departed ancestors benefits the bloodlines of Dunmeri Houses. The bond between the living family members and immortal ancestors is partly blood, partly ritual, partly volitional. A member brought into the House through marriage binds himself through ritual and oath into the clan, and gains communication and benefits from the clan's ancestors; however, his access to the ancestors is less than his offspring, and he retains some access to the ancestors of his own bloodline.
>...the family members pay their respects to their ancestors through sacrifice and prayer, through oaths sworn upon duties, and through reports on the affairs of the family. In return, the family may receive information, training, and blessings from the family's ancestors. The ancestors are thus the protectors of the home, and especially the precincts of the Waiting Door.
>...
>Spirits do not like to visit the mortal world, and they do so only out of duty and obligation. Spirits tell us that the otherworld is more pleasant, or at least more comfortable for spirits than our real world, which is cold, bitter, and full of pain and loss.
>...
>Some spirits are bound against their wills to protect family shrines. This unpleasant fate is reserved for those who have not served the family faithfully in life. Dutiful and honorable ancestral spirits often aid in the capture and binding of wayward spirits.
>These spirits usually go mad, and make terrifying guardians. They are ritually prevented from harming mortals of their clans, but that does not necessary discourage them from mischievous or peevish behavior. They are exceedingly dangerous for intruders. At the same time, if an intruder can penetrate the spirit's madness and play upon the spirit's resentment of his own clan, the angry spirits may be manipulated.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Kingdom_(book_series)
Read the bits about magic and the abhorsen.

>>50576436
Wisdom and charisma are the measurements of self awareness (specifically charisma). Wisdom is the ability to do things that matter - such as survive by eating things. So even vermin and oozes have a wis and cha of 1 each - in other words the basic instincts of "I must eat" and "I must not eat me." Both are mindless.

>>50541828
wait so letting someone out of a cage is equivalent to animating them.
embedded is a video of Caesar animating disgruntled apes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wS9RtY8dVpo

>>50545309
>>50547252
>>50551637

I've pondered on a setting/culture that hinges on necromancy- and stitching, the idea that the raised body isn't just a skeleton or something.

For one, they do Aztec-style ritual sacrifice as well as sports and other athletic feats as part of the ceremonies- there is no greater honor to go on and win, be sacrificed, and become part of the standing army. It is seen as an honor to hone one's body to be used most efficiently, then give that body over and await "reincarnation" as what is essentially a holy warrior. Then, there are the "priests" who practice stitching and necromancy, building frankenstein-like creatures from the bodies of the sacrificed in order to be the perfect war machines, and instilling the most willful and devoted souls into their new bodies. In life, they learned the extent of their body and how best to use it- now, the process starts over, where they may have any wild amalgamation of parts.

Lesser people are usually not offered bodies when they die, but can essentially donate their soul to the church for when large armies are needed. They won't have the honor of having a tailor-made war body, but will still serve alongside those who do, and will have a small seat in the warrior afterlife. Normal people essentially go to the "eternal sleep"- an afterlife of peace and returning your energy to the earth over time, while warrior souls are protected and eternal (or so they believe).

If they have gladiatorial combat, they never allow more than first blood- causing damage to another worthy warrior's body would be seen as a treasonous crime, after all.

>>50541639
What if you play as a Necromancer who has re-animated the rest of the party and is keeping them alive because he's lonely and they were his only friends

>Animating corpses doesn't hurt anybody therefore it is useful
Done.

>>50559809
so any regular adventuring party.

>>50541639
animate the dead to fight demons you know fight fire with fire,you can't call a person evil if he saved an entire village from a fate worse then death

>>50547170
God breathed life into them the same way He did with Adam.

>>50547652
t. PAIN.

>>50541738
>BUT THE FISH TASTED OFF IS MY POINT
Lost it.

>>50541639
I'm too lazy to find the copypasta, but /tg/ came up with exactly what you're describing. The necromancy is a family tradition--some family members raise the dead, etc, while most agree to be raised for the family. Family can refuse. The whole point of this family lifestyle is for the betterment of the world. This is very LG imo