Who wins, assuming they're in a neutral base and all start

>>50523906
Clone troopers is my bet, although the Federation and imperial guardsmen have the advantage of understanding the purpose of cover

>>50523931
clone troopers, as shown in the clone wars show as well as battlefront 2, value traditional guerilla and trench warfare tactics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnwXu0ZpySY

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>>50523906
Well, there's multiple things to consider here.

Whoever the Red Shirts open fire on first is going to get decimated. Phasers are really deadly and will punch through the armor of anyone they hit. However, the Red Shirts don't have much defense in turn, so they'll get shot to pieces pretty quickly.

The Terran Marines are likely to draw fire, due to their imposing stature, so will likely go down once the medic is taken out.

Ultimately, it comes down to the clones vs. the IG. I give the Clones the advantage due to slightly better armor and a more mobile combat style, while the IG stay mostly stationary. However, close combat could be a game changer if the IG get stuck in after hitting with their flamers. A chainsword is going to intimidate anyone, Clones included (I'm assuming the Commisar has a chainsword, since it is their standard equipment loadout.)

>>50523906
Real question, are redshirts bullet attraction wears off when they aren't near any federation main character they need to make look good?
I mean, are they supposed to be competent lore-wise? Sorry, I'm shit when it comes to Star Trek.

>>50523972
the federation is supposed to have held off the klingons for years, so redshirts should be at least competent.

>>50523979
Or the klingons are idiots, which is frankly what a lot of on screen evidence indicates.


Either way, trek phasers can't even penetrate crates. I don't see them menacing body armor.

>>50523906
I want to just write off the Terran Marines as not even in this fight seeing how even in universe they're considered amazingly expendable. They do however have a rifle that is fully capable of bringing down lowly zerglings up to Protoss Carriers considering it's a (semi) man-portable railgun. So 5 marines + medic could do some serious damage at range provided they keep a distance. The armor is just too look badass and apply wicked decal art too....and also for hazardous environment protection. Not for actual bullets for some reason.

I give it to the terrain marines, who share a similar disregard for their lives as the other non-trekkie factions, but have powered armor, combat drugs, and guns with demonstrable anti-vehicle capability.

>>50524024
They also vaporize granite boulders, so your mileage may vary.

>>50524024
phasers have varying levels of deadliness, able to vaporise even massive boulders or just knock a person out.

>>50524024
Maximum setting phasers on wide dispersal are insanely deadly. I think they've just casually disintegrated buildings just to prove a point to people.

>>50524024
technically phasers could act like giant erasers if they actually put it in that setting doubly so for phaser rifles

>>50524053
Gonna go with Terran Marines as well. Assuming that everyone uses cover, sensible squad tactics and that every squad member on all sides has gone through combat operations.

They're ammo is gonna punch through all of the Cadian carapace armor and the non-armored redshirts are on a timer if they don't set up a proper ambush. Clone troopers come in second with Cadians coming in with a close third.

>>50523906
How good is the micro for the marines?

>>50524241
assume they're CPU controlled.

Red shirts have a long convo about the situation and pick off the stragglers afterwards.

How much cover is on the map?
Because of a smaller squad size (and most likely better armour save) the Terran marines can effectively hide behind objects to block off line of sight to them. It would be much easier to hide 5 marines + medic than trying to hide 10 guys.

>>50523906
>All sides move in
>All but marines take cover as marines are now stimmed up
>Redshits fire, Marines drop
>Guardsmen fire at Redshirts. They miss. Redshirts die anyway
>Surviving marines huddle around Medic who keeps them alive, taking out clones
>Not before heavy weapons clone shoots Guardsmen promethium tank.
>Guardsmen go up in a ball of flame
>Commissar is slightly angry his coat gets singed Charges heavy weapons clone and bisects the unfortunate.
>Clones and Marine gun down Commissar but not before he can put one between the eyes of the Medic as a final 'fuck you'.
>Surviving redshirts treknobabble their way to causing a feedback into surviving marine armor. They seize up, and bend backwards, killing the wearer as their spine bends in a direction not humanly possible.
>Redshirts fire on surviving clones. Clones fire on Redshirts.
>Both lose weapons
>Breaks out into a brawl as clones use Mandalorian martial arts and Redshirts ball their hands into a hammer and smack the clones again and again.
>Somehow one redshirt survives the scrum, declared victor
>Dies of heart attack

>>50524322
>Marines using stim right off the bat in a free for all scenario
Stopped reading there.

>>50524322
this is canon.

>>50524346
your loss

Red shirts have the best tech but I have never fucking seen starfleet be compitent at small unit tactics so they'd probably get ganked by the 501st who'd pick up their phasers and win. The 501st has the best training of the groups, the best tactics of the groups and have a full squad. The marines are the only thing really threatening here, unless red shirts become competent at ground engagements and learn how to fucking use cover, or just generally not be the worst fucking marine/security force.

Really these fights always piss me off because Trek has such bullshit capabilities but everyone in the universe is a bunch of fucking idiots. By every right each of these groups should win but there's always a toss up because phasers disintegrate everything and maximum spread basically makes it so you can't miss. Hell the IG has better tactics than the Federation most of the time. The IG. People who have groups that believe that standing in Napoleonic box formations is a good idea in the 41st millennium have better tactics. Don't get me wrong I love Trek, it's one of my go to shows to watch but holy shit are things stacked in their favor so much, but they aren't even smart enough to use it.

TL;DR 501st should win but Redshirts because of Trek tech have like a 50% chance or more of wining.

>>50523906
>Who wins

I'd say either the Clone Troopers or the Terran Marines.

Unless of course the Trekkies get to shoot first in every single encounter because then they'd just win: phasers are EXTREMELY fucking powerful. Phasers have multiple settings from the lowest being to stun, to the highest being able to melt rock, disintegrate living tissue, cut through metal like a welding torch, etc..
Trekkies though don't have armor and they come from a post-scarcity high-culture civilization; they realistically wouldn't have a stomach for gritty, personal, combat and you do get points for attitude. Terrans, Clone Troopers and Warhammer 'umies all have that drive to kill.


I'm discrediting the Warhammer soldiers because I'm under the impression that their equipment is neither advanced enough or quality enough and that they rely too much on numbers and orbital bombardment. I could be totally wrong though- They're the odd man out for me personally in terms of my awareness, so feel free to correct me if I'm completely wrong.

here's how I'd break it down. As anons have said, whomever the redshirts fired at would be decimated, but possibly not wiped out. their incredibly fragile leadership and lack of actual armor would have them wiped out in a ground battle.

the space marines are tactical and coordinated, but don't have very good direction due to their criminal status and getting drugged up. medics would help, but if and when the medic was killed, it'd be over.

guardsmen have the advantage of range, but do not have very high survivability. However, a commissar bolstering them would keep them focused and wipe out whomever they set their flashlights on. As well, having an advantage in melee may be a gamechanger due to their flamers and the commissar.

the clone troopers are, individually, elite forces. Nothing they have stands out, but their all around balance could decide the encounter in their favour.

But again, the early elimination via the redshirts could decide this battle.

>>50524463
IG soldiers are cannon fodder, but they're the best of the best of the normal human encampments, and much of their fighting is done on the ground, with trench warfare. squadrons are lucky to have artillery or improved weaponry, but the lasguns they have, while not powerful, have a long range giving them an edge over blasters or machine guns.

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>>50524479
forgot pic

>>50524463
>>50524479
Their Lasguns aren't powerful in their setting.

Truth is, a Lasgun really deadly against an unarmored or lightly armored human. The Flashlight jokes come about due to the IG constantly fighting opponents that are so far beyond humans in durability.

In an IG vs Redshirt engagement the winner is whichever one shoots first, as each carries a weapon that can one shot the other. IG Carapace armor, while superior to the standard issue Flak armor, will not stop a phaser set to kill. The redshirts on the other hand are literally wearing shirts, no armor.

Not sure how Lasguns would fare against the clone trooper armor and I imagine they'd have some trouble with the Marines.

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ill bet on redshirts....

but not overly confident.

>>50524487
I generally agree with you but I think you're underselling the 501st, and Marines to some level and overselling the Guard.

My Rankings:

501st Clone Troopers
Leadership 3-4
Tactics 3
Weapons 3
Armor 3
Survivability 3

IG Troopers
Leadership 5
Tactics 3
Weapons 2
Armor 2
Survivability 2

Terran Marine
Leadership 2
Tactics 3
Weapons 3
Armor 5
Survivability 2

Starfleet Redshirts
Leadership 2
Tactics 1
Weapons 5
Armor 0
Survivability 2

>>50524540
remember that space marine power armor isn't nearly as powerful as space marine power armor. In fact, I'd be surprised if it's even as good as SoB power armor, as it's made of neosteel instead of ceramite. I think lasguns would have some issues penetrating it, but not nearly as much as they would penetrating ceramite or wraithbone armor.

I think lasguns would be equivalent to the clone trooper blasters, albeit having a longer range. As well, their carapace armor, I think, would let them take a few shots from the clone trooper blasters or marine machine guns which, if you'll remember in canon, fire quickly, but without a huge amount of punch, similar to the lasgun.

>>50524576
Second thought Marines would probably have survivability 3 not 2.

>>50524024
>trek phasers can't even penetrate crates
Are you thinking of tricorders

>>50524576
don't forget though, that the 501st doesn't have an APC trooper to command them, so they're effectively moving as a squad, but without a leader to command them, they're making their own decisions.

that said, 501st troopers are incredibly elite on their own. I stand by their 2 in leadership.

>>50524579
The power armor would be comparable to Astartes or Soroitos armor. Not as good but comparable.
Blasters would have more punch than a lasgun but worse range. in 40k terms something like 18 inch range S4 AP6 or AP- Assualt 2. I think the Gauss Rifle as OP said is comprable to a Bolter. I don't remember them having low penetration or punch qualities according to cannon, but I'll admit it's been a while.

>>50524604
I guess the important thing to ask at this point is what is average? Is it three, is it two? Because right now I'm working off of three as average for a trained military.

>>50524657
I think 3 would be average, but without an actual commander, a unit, no matter how well trained, will do what it feels is best.

remember that terran marines are the dominion/terran people's basic footsoldier in galactic warfare, comparable to the IG. Their armor might be equivalent to sororitas armor, but definitely not the level of astartes.

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>>50523906
We talking seasoned clones or shinies?

>>50523906
redshirts are out because they're redshirts.

Marines probably have the best gear. But they're outnumbered. Their medics are pretty neat, though.

Clones have shit for armour.

The commissar is probably a bit redundant unless they get into melee.

>>50524687
501 are usually elite troops.

>>50524687
501st are all the best of the best of the original jango clones.


>>50524697
>Clones have shit for armour.
kek, no they don't.

>The commissar is probably a bit redundant unless they get into melee.
commissars are next level commanders who will keep the guardsmen unified and under control and keep their morale high.

>>50524677
>I think 3 would be average, but without an actual commander, a unit, no matter how well trained, will do what it feels is best.
True, but these aren't normal troopers. This is like saying 10 veteran Rangers have below average leadership abilities, and that's just wrong. The major problem with this comparison is that it's a bunch of mooks fighting it out with one squad of elite troops. They will be better trained, and have better knowledge and control of the battlefield. In the Clone War series we see small squads quickly identify leaders and promote them to command positions. This would be no different.

>remember that terran marines are the dominion/terran people's basic footsoldier in galactic warfare, comparable to the IG. Their armor might be equivalent to sororitas armor, but definitely not the level of astartes.
Your right I should have only compared it to the equivalent of sororitas armor, which is still damn impressive. It's still a 3+ save and I believe toughness four.

>>50524731
fair enough, maybe clones would have 3 across the board then.

>>50524731
>Your right
*You're right
My mistake sorry.

Gotta go with the clone troopers on this one. Unlike the others, they're born and bred for war and are probably the best trained and best equipped out of the 4 options. The DC-15 is already a heavy blaster, so the special weapon they're carrying is going to be pretty devastating. A Z-6 is going to chew through anyone's armor, and a quad-blaster will do the same, as well as destroy light cover.

>>50523944
Carapace armor, not Flak.

>>50524487

Terran armour has never been shown to be super effective though.

>>50523906

501st legion are the best trained of these guys; I'd firmly bet on them. Redshirts are a wild card as even though there's virtually 0% chance of them coming on top, as stated before whatever is on the receiving end of their phasers is going to die before they do.

>>50524734
I'd say threes in everything but tactics which would have a four, these are the best of the best elite troops after all. Frankly that might up their survivability as well, 501st are pretty hardcore. They are the favored force in my opinion. Now if it were just regular clones and not the 501st that's a whole different story. I'd say that your original ranking system is actually a perfect representation of your standard clone squad. Average across the board in everything, but a dip in leadership because no Sgt. or Lt. with them.

>>50524761
The more I think about it the more I agree with you. It has a bunch of augmentations that help the wearer but physical protection is somewhat lacking.

All these SW and 40Kids wankery. Star Trek wins due to thickest PLOT ARMOUR. You can have all of the Red Shirts killed and the mission will still be successful somehow due to some mindfuckery, seduction or technobabble. No contest.

>>50524053
>>50524186
Under normal circumstances I'd agree with you, but I'd expect the other factions would tend to target them first since they look scary. I don't know the exact effectiveness of SW/40K weapons against their armor, but phasers can be scary when the Federation wants someone gone.

Then the clones and IG would turn on the redshirts because they just rekt an entire team, and the redshirts would die really quickly due to rapid-fire weapons vs clothing being a really one-sided engagement.

Then it comes down to clones vs IG, and I'd probably give it to the clones since I think their weapons and armor are probably a little better (iirc lasguns are supposed to be laser .50 weapons, whereas blasters cut through that armored door in the beginning of ANH). They're probably also slightly better combatants since they're all clones of an extremely effective individual and theoretically bring some of his exceptional strength, reflexes, etc to the party.

>>50524913
There are no trek writers involved here, so their gay plot armor is not in effect.

>>50524914
>I don't know the exact effectiveness of SW/40K weapons against their armor
Marines get blown apart by a short volley of hydralisk spines. Their armor is not that great. It's more an exoskeleton than an armored suit. Lisk spines are probably equal to some 'nid weapon like the Spine Rifle or Fleashboarer which are standard issue small arms of the Tyranids.

>>50524984
Hydralisk spines shoot apart tanks, mechs, and shielded space elf walkers too. And in case you forgot, tyranids can pry open 40k muhreenz, too.

These aren't normal animals and shouldn't be thought of as such. They're AFVs that look like mantis cockroach snakes.

>>50525021
Not saying they aren't horrible death insects, I'm just giving a reasonable comparison from one universe to another.

>>50523906
I think most people are vastly overestimating the combat potential of a sc marine. In SC2 a marine has 45 hp and deals 6 damage base, a zergling 35 hp and 5 damage base. Assuming the scythe-like talons of a zergling and a hormagaunt's scything talons are more or less the same, save at WS 3 instead of 4, that would mean it takes 9 attacks on average to kill a marine and 8 average to kill a guardsman.

Compare this to the damage marine and guardsman deal to their respective insectoid foes, a guardsman need 6 lasgun shots to down a gaunt, and a marine 6 to down a zergling.

The guardsmen are basically just 2x the terrans plus 2 flamers and a commissar who has twice the normal health and twice three times the melee ability with just a pistol and regular sword. The guardsmen also have fragmentation grenades.

Storm troopers in empire at war have 40 health per 9 men and deal 1 damage per hit. Assuming similar armor, this is about 4.44 shots per kill, so S 4 AP - or 8 damage per attack.

I think it's safe to assume marine armor, clone laminate, and carapace armor are all of equal protective quality. The result are 3 squads of very similar composition and then the federation cucks who are running around with handheld nukes, wearing nothing but diapers. I would say combat training, fire discipline, and combat experience would remove the trekkies from the equation, then it comes down to who brings the most utility and the most tactical flexibility.

>all of them vs 1 book accurate mobe infantryman

>>50525187
They have a medic though. Burn those stim packs and go to town.

Hell if you want to get creative, have the medic blind the commissar for giggles.

>>50525187

Terrans have healing (3 per second, or somewhere between the damage of one guardsman and 1 clone), next to no training, no hand-to-hand capabilities, and relatively short range weaponry. They throw out 30 damage a "round," or 5/6 of one guardsman/clone. They also have a total of 285 health including 60 for the medic.

The clones have one support weapon of what is probably impressive power, a superb training regimen, limited hand-to-hand capability, and relatively short range weaponry. They can toss out excess of 80 dpr or enough to take out 1.77 guardsmen. They have a total of 450 health.

The guard have two heavy weapons in the form of flamers, support weapons in the form of fragmentation grenades, average training, perfect discipline (so long as the commissar lives), a dedicated close-combat specialist, and comparatively long range weaponry. They deal 60 dpr at long range, 126 dpr with the commissar's pistol range, and 114 + 2(flamer) dpr at close range. Or 1.3/2.6/lots guardsmen. They have a total of 540 health.

Seems to me the guard come out on top in just about every situation. Too far away, they can poke and you can't hit them, too close and you get rapid-fired and flamed. They even have the backup of charging into melee where they can throw assault grenades and get their chopping machine into the thick of things. They can also suffer the most casualties and have a replacement for their heavy weapon. They even get a sergeant as a secondary melee combatant.

>>50523906
Who's microing the marines? As long as they stutter step correctly I imagine they'll beat everyone.

>>50523906
Terran Marines with ease. Lore-wise their guns are accurate and lethal out to like 10 kilometers, so they kill anyone else as soon as they get over the horizon. The range difference is huge, and they have the firepower to kill everyone else.

Redshirts hit the hardest, but they will never get in range.

>>50525234
They all get nuked, that's a stupid one to bring in.

>>50525266
where did I say the guardsmen have grenade launchers?

ever?

they are a standard squad of 10 with carapace armor, 2 flamers and a commissar

>>50525299
>The guardsmen also have fragmentation grenades.
>where did I say the guardsmen have grenade launchers?
>What is reading comprehension?
Guardsmen come standard with fragmentation grenades, as in those things you pull a pin out of and lob at people.

>>50525187
>>50525266
Its a bit disingenuous to not only mix game mechanics and fluff but to pick and mix game mechanics across lines to make yours seem better.

>>50525357
>Disingenuous
>A thought experiment in a thought experiment thread about fictional universes
I chose game mechanics because lore can be arbitrary and inconsistent, maybe it doesn't reflect the truth of the fiction, but I don't think any other source can claim to either.
also
>to make yours seem better
>implying im not a federation fag and just butt-mad i know my guys would't stand a chance

Terran Marines. Might not be the best trained but the only reason the Zerg/Protoss get as close as they do it tunneling or portals.

Canonically they have an INSANE range thanks to their bog standard gun being a railgun that can penetrate pretty much anything they fire at and the shit they survive being hit by can kill tanks and intergalactic space cruisers anyway.

Clones get overated as fuck because while they are the best of the best of the best in Star Wars......

It's still Star Wars. They are still as retarded as the rest of the guys willing to use blasters over solid weapons and their armour is next to useless.

Cadians also cover the same territory as them but have more training. Cadians are trained from birth to fight abominations from beyond the stars that can create plagues and summon storms as well as guys who are essentially walking tanks.

The Red Shirts canonically are meant to be extremely good at what they do in ship to ship boarding actions and they have been doing what they do against Romulans (10x human speed and strength) and Klingons (1-2x) while maintaining an advantage. Plus they have the best weapon out of any on this list as long as they get in range since they can literally remove matter from existence and any red shirt with half a brain could just turn his phaser into a bomb and disintegrate the rest.

Especially if he's a post DS9 Red Shirt ala the MMO and has the shit they equip such as portable shields.

>>50525245
Stim is an upgrade, just like the listed heavy weapons, specialists, or equipment. Unless OP wants to alter the question, the marines don't bring them to this fight.

A blind commissar still has sight range of 1 which means he can still command and execute his squad and fight fine in melee, so blinding him does nothing other than removing the threat of one las pistol. Scary.

>>50525443

>removing one .50 cal tier weapon

The clones and Red Shirts wouldn't be able to survive the lasguns on any level. Clone Armour isn't remotely as capable as carapace or even flak in terms of protection. It never got featured showing a guy who took a direct hit surviving a blaster shot despite Leia surviving one while wearing a cloak.

She'd be fucked if a lasgun hit her. Let alone a phaser or terran railgun.

>>50525412
Lore is unclear as to whether or not romulans maintain vulcan--like strength. Their biology has changed enough that klingon blood was a better match for ribosome transfusion (dont quote me on the details of that). Vulcan strength is also generally associated with evolving and growing up on high-gravity vulcan. Further, their are no instances outside of the 2009 movie showing romulans having anything but human strength.

Also most redshirts don't operate ships near either neutral zone or any sort of combat area, even then boarding actions were rare and generally agreed to be unfavorable situations for federation forces.

>>50525490
A-are you drunk, anon?
Cuz I have no idea what you are trying to say. I was saying the most a terran medic could accomplish with a blind would be limit a commissar's shooting, which would be less effective than limiting a plain old guardsman's. Hell if starcraft rules still apply, his teammates' sight would let him shoot anyway.

Don't know what the whole leia thing is about.

>>50525412
Redshits never show any of these informed abilities, ever. If we go by what we see, the redshirts will be dead in the opening salvos as they stand around pulling their puds with their phasers set to 'tickle gently.'

>>50525412
>only reason the Zerg/Protoss get as close as they do it tunneling or portals.
Lore-wise, the Protoss are really fucking overpowered and the only reason they can't win is because they're few in number and full of arrogance, and the Zerg are the Zerg.

The Terrans are kinda fucked on both fronts, if not for the Zerg having to fight the Protoss and vice-versa. Well than, and their weapons are pretty capable, even if they can't take a hit nowhere near as well as the Protoss. But that's to be expected since Lore Protoss are same level of bullshit as Lore Space Marines, maybe even more.

>>50525571
The Protoss are staggeringly militarily incompetent. Incredibly stupid. Unbelievably so. Even with their limited numbers, they could've won the war otherwise.

>>50525584
Well, it is their first war in a long time. They had to resort to digging up thousand year old war machines to stay afloat.

>>50525592
I mean, they're bad. The Brits fought stone age ooga boogas who understood war better.

>>50523944
Phasers a shit. And redshirts are worse shots than stormies

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Let's add these guys to the fray

>>50524487
i feel like 501st should have a lot more survivability.

Cus Vader's Fist.

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If you ask me, i'd bet my money on the guys trained from birth to fighting eldritch horrors, walking tanks and genetically engineered warmongers.

I'm more interested in the question if any of those four could beat a single regular space marine from really any chapter.

>>50525712
>I'm more interested in the question if any of those four could beat a single regular space marine from really any chapter.
Terran Marines and Red Shirts definitely can kill a Space Marine with their weapons, the question is whether they can get the drop on him.

A Clone Trooper probably could also find a Star Wars weapons that can punch through a Space Marine.

>>50523906
>501st legion
>Literally one of the good groups of troopers
>Has members that take down dozens of droids like its nothing

My bet is on them.

>>50525712
In tabletop all of them will beat single marine. But in lore or whatever maybe terrans could beat 1 marine.

>>50525609
I know almost nothing of Star Craft lore, care to explain?

(The Protoss incompitance, I mean. Not the Ooga boogas.)

>>50524715
A good commissar will also know exactly how to kill a guardsmen for insubordination right before he would die anyway to maximize moral with minimal loss.

>>50523942
I apologise, ive only watched the 3d animated series

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>>50523906
Jesus Christ this thread is RETARDED.

The EU was RETCONNED. None of it was canon, although none of it was even really canon because it for the most part, directly contradicted the movies. We know from the Clone Wars 3D Show that Clones are RETARDED and can't hit the broadside of a fucking barn. They fire at battle droids who are only ten meters away and miss most of their shots.

I'd say the Star Trek security team would win, but like the Clones they suffer from complete and utter retardation.

This is a fight between the Imperial Guardsmen and Terran Marines, with it being rather hard to call on account of the guardsmen having more dudes but having weapons that render Terran armor pretty useless.

>>50525852
*and having weapons that render terran armor useless

However, the power armor the terran marines use give them highly advanced sensors that will render most sneaking impossible, so they're gonna know where everybody else is during the firefight, which gives them one hell of an advantage. Plus they have assisted aiming.

The Clones and Security Team will open fire at each other, and fail to hit anything for an hour.

>>50525852
>having weapons that render Terran armor pretty useless.
I'm actually not sure a flashlight can make short work of a Marine suit, they regularly tank heavier stuff both in game and in lore, and they're pretty well sealed against the environment, so a flamer is also not instant death.

It'd probably get through eventually, though.

>>50525412
>and any red shirt with half a brain could just turn his phaser into a bomb and disintegrate the rest.
This would make for an interesting tactic. Have 3 redshirts set their weapons to over load and throw them in the general direction of each enemy unit. They still have 7 usable weapons, and have potentially done horrific damage to the other teams (or if you believe some of the older shows destroyed the entire complex).
Granted that would mean the redshirts had tactics and that is far from a given.

>>50525865
You mean those advanced sensors which completely block their vision of anything that is farther away than 20 meters and fail to detect anything underground or invisible?

>>50525872
Have you played Starcraft? Flamers wreck their shit hard.

>>50525712

>If you ask me, i'd bet my money on the guys trained from birth to fighting eldritch horrors, walking tanks and genetically engineered warmongers.

...You mean all of them except for the red shirts?

>>50525899
Yes I have actually, quite a lot, and I've read a bunch of the lore. They last through flamers enough to let off a bunch of shots, nowhere near instakill, and I doubt a man portable IG flamer is anywhere near what an upgraded Hellion or a Firebat can bring to bear.

Also be careful about bringing the games as an argument, because Starcraft units never, ever miss a shot.

>>50525911
And the Terran Marines, who are mainly conscripted prisoners.
And from what i know, Droids aren't quite on the same level as Chaos Demons/Space Marines, Orks and psykers gone mad.

>>50525929
>never, ever miss a shot.
Actually, lemme correct myself, they do miss sometimes in the original game, under a very rate set of circumstances.

>>50525872
Terran Power armor is incredibly thin and focused on kinetic energy absorbtion IIRC, not thermal, which is completely different. Lasguns meanwhile on high settings can vaporize an entire man's head, and can be fired at full auto and, as a laser, are both instant and do not miss. Not to mention that if these are cadians, they have a 90% accuracy rating in firefights, under stress. Terrans do NOT want to test if their armor stands up to lasguns. Better to make use of their firepower and suppress the guardsmen.

>>50525932
>psykers gone mad
Sounds an awful lot like jedi and sith.

>>50525942
>You can't miss with a laser
no

>>50525929
I don't believe that those Flamers would be so different that they make a real difference. After all, let's just consider what both factions are fighting and using them against.

I also just noticed that i missread your post. You're right, it's not quite instakill.

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>>50525957
Are you really comparing a Tzeentchian Psyker to a Jedi?

>>50525942
>Terran Power armor is incredibly thin and focused on kinetic energy absorbtion IIRC
It's thin by Starcraft standards, but they can still stand up to a couple hits of almost anything that universe can throw at them (including lasers, which the Terrans have plenty of in their arsenal)

Also, there's quite a lot of metal to vaporize before the laser can hit anything vital, and as the amount of vaporized metal in the air increases, lasers lose their effectiveness quickly.

All that aside, Marines also quite handily outrange Guardsmen, both in weapons range and vision range.

>>50525986
More to a Sith, but yeah.

40k wank aside, depending on how canon you want to be, Star Wars force users got to be incredibly powerful before uncle Disney brought down the ax on the EU.

>>50525881
Okay, so a breakdown

>Redshirts win if they use effective tactics to use their superior weapons. They don't display these tactics in the show, nor do they wear armour and they have limited experience in personal combat.

>Marines win if they can abuse their auto-targeting and awesome effective range. They're dead meat if they take fire or lose their medic. They're also trained but not super experienced.

>Guardsmen win if they can focus their ranked fire, OR if they get into range with flamer and chainsword. The Commissar is key, but they're all hardened vets.

>Clones don't really have a win condition. They don't have a real "lose" condition either. They're all veterans trained from birth.


My money's on the Cadians. They're well equipped but also disciplined. I'd say the Carapace armour tips it in their favour a little too much, honestly.

Clone armour seems on-par with flak in 40k, marine armour more like carapace? Any weapon on the field ~should~ have decent odds to pierce any armour.

>>50523906
The 501st are fucking exceptional, they dick on everyone else there.

>>50525772
Let's just start with how Zeratul and Tassadar decided to kill a Cerebrate for no reason (no tactical follow-up afterwards, like using the massive stun delivered to the Overmind to deal massive damage to the swarm), and in process Zeratul's mind linked with the Overmind's, and therefore gave up the location of the Protoss homeworld of Aiur, which lead to the Protoss getting conquered and having to relocate their entire home planet. Then later Tassadar effectively kills Fenix by telling you to go after Cerebrates, knowing full well you only can kill them with Dark Templar energy, but forgoing that fact. Fenix goes in against the Cerebrates and dies later, fortifying the position.

And Aldaris is supposed to be in the wrong for wanting the traitors that actively hampered the Protoss wartime agenda and betrayed the biggest state secret that was the key to the Protoss staying alive at all (burn Zerg-infested worlds and stay secretive).

>>50526046
>I'd say the Carapace armour tips it in their favour a little too much, honestly.
It's not powered, so even if it can survive a hit from a Terran gauss rifle without penetration, the squishy human inside wont.

Phasers pretty much ignore armor.

Clone troopers are harder, since blaster power is very inconsistent throughout SW. Sometimes they can punch through tanks, sometimes they have trouble killing an unarmored Leia. Same goes for clone armor, we have no idea how strong it really is because we have no idea how strong a blaster is.

I'd say in the grand scheme of things it doesn't really matter if the guardsmen wear any armor or not in 2 out of 3 cases, and it's debatable in the 3rd case.

If we go by best-case scenario for the Clone Trooper armor and weapons, then they handily beat everybody else.

If we go by best-case EU scenario for the Clone Trooper armor and weapons, then they completely shit on everybody else.

>>50526009
There isn't though. The Starcraft 2 trailers give us a complete view of terran armor, which is basically an exoskeleton with plates bolted on that are incredibly thin.

>>50526100
Moreover, after Zeratul and Tassadar have committed the fiasco and caused Aiur to have its cover blown, they neglected to communicate that to their home planet, even though Tassadar, being of the Protoss Expeditionary Force, was probably supposed to monitor the Zerg activity in the area. Even better, it takes an entire long mission, where your Cerebrate has to eradicate an entire Zerg brood that went haywire after its' general's death, and the Dark Templars somehow didn't manage to organize and fuck off of Char before it was too late. They got trapped there and Kerrigan destroyed them.

Not to mention Tassadar's epic tactics that led to that. He sacrificed an entire Protoss squad to a futile battle just so that Zeratul can slash that Cerebrate. And he thought he was supersmart because he was taunting Kerrigan at the time. Lot of good did that do to the Protoss.

>>50526111
But the plates are neosteel (whatever the fuck that is) and are shown in canon to take his really well. And the mechanics of the exoskeleton are also metal you have to vaporize to get to the squishy bits.

>>50526105
True I suppose.

Blasters are tricky. Incredibly so.

>>50526128
You mean they utterly fail against everything?

Terran Marines are squishy as fuck and get mowed down by everybody and their uncle in the cutscenes.

>>50523906
Does depend:
if IG is just IG grunt w/ carapace armor:
>Red shirts get recked by anyone because no armour and that only pro know how to glasscanon properly.
>IG is exterminated because no artillery/spessmureen squad to help them.
>Marines get their teeth bashed in because:
>There's less of them
>their guns aren't that munch more powerful compared to the clones blaster that can kill a bug lump of spess metal in a single hit.

If IG w/ carapace armor are kasrkins(because the IG would not waste carapace on a simple grunt)
>Red shirt get recked, same as before.
>the marines/ clones find themselves face to face with a squad of guys that have been trained and equipped to kill anything, and that have a crazy political officer with a chainsword leading them.
>knowing the clones they'll take cover somewhere while the marines get flashlighted to death by the IG.
>then the clone will discover what it's like to fight someone that has two flamers aimed at you and eight more taking accurate lasgun/hellgun shot at you.

>>50526100
>>50526123
You got the order slightly wrong. Fenix went against the Cerebrates before the Protoss knew that you needed Dark Templar energies to fuck them up, Tassadar wasn't even in contact with the Protoss on Antioch at that point. Then Fenix got fucked because the developers wanted him to be a Dragoon, and then Kerrigan turned him into a couple of Broodlings (at least that's how I always played that mission).

Also at the time they attacked the Cerebrates, they had no way of knowing the Overmind existed or could link telepathically with any of the Protoss.

Their biggest fuck-up was the whole Aldaris debacle, but that can be blamed on Kerrigan fucking about with Raszagal's mind.

Sure, the Protoss fucked up a lot, but nowhere near as badly as you make it out to be, and if you take into account the information they had available at the time, the decisions they made are mostly sound.

>>50526158
In cutscenes, Marines mostly go against Ultralisks or overwhelming hordes of Zerglings (which can run at 60 miles per hour or something) and Hydralisks (which can shoot acid covered spikes at hypersonic speeds).

Read some of the books or comics, Terran Marines get painted in a more positive light, even if they still get absolutely fucked in open combat because everything out there is much stronger and faster and more numerous than them.

>>50526186
Pretty sure those are Cadian Shock Troopers. So, I mean, while not Kasrkins, still pretty fucking good at their job. Even then, Kasrkin troopers are Cadian "Grenadiers" or heavy weapons specialists as it were.

Keep in mind that even the standard IG regiments are the best of an entire world.

When you're thinking "Cannon Fodder", you're thinking PDF. IG are much better trained and equipped.

I still think the 501st, being Elite troops themselves, would win or at best be 50/50 when facing IG Cadians, and losing if they got within range.

>>50526193
Fenix went against the cerebrates specifically because Tassadar told him that thisi s the idea, I even remember the quote verbatim, "Strike down the Cerebrates, and the Swarm will surely fall", and Aldaris was suspicious of him already.

>Also at the time they attacked the Cerebrates, they had no way of knowing the Overmind existed or could link telepathically with any of the Protoss.

But they didn't even DO anything with the advantage they won. If Tassadar and Zeratul were smart, they'd gather intel and make an educated guess. Put some blocks in place, make sure that they can coordinate it with Aiur and order a huge scale attack. Make a cascade. Take out more Cerebrates. Eliminate Daggoth or Kerrigan. Instead they just wasted the element of surprise.

For all they know, Overmind shits out Cerebrates like it's no problem, and he has at least 8 broods at his command at any given time.

At most, that decision was just a show of power to neener-neener at the Zerg that they now have a way to kill them too, but it doesn't do anything worthwhile because you can't intimidate or psych-battle with the Zerg.

Red shirts have an overwhelming advantage in firepower and damage potential.

Terran Marines have an overwhelming advantage in range and accuracy and cover penetration (blasters and las guns and phasers get stopped equally well by trees as by steel, while a 3mm hypersonic needle will go right through anything soft).

IG have an overwhelming advantage in terms of will to fight and fearlessness and a good advantage in training over the other two.

Clone troopers have an advantage in terms of training and tactics over IG and an overwhelming advantage in training and tactics over the other two, plus they have a ton of fancy gadgets at their disposal, like tiny scout drones.

>>50526260
>"Strike down the Cerebrates, and the Swarm will surely fall"
But they all thought that you could kill cerebrates by regular means, only later it was discovered that you couldn't. The only cerebrate slain at that point was Zasz by Zeratul.

Also, you're confusing the mission 9 of the game with the time Zeratul killed Zasz.

The events of the game, as far as the Protoss are concerned:

Terran Campaign:
1.- Tassadar goes to fight the zerg, glasses some Terran colonies

Zerg Campaign:
2.- Tassadar finds the Dark Templar
3.- Zeratul kills Zasz, sending his swarm into disarray, and the Overmind (who Zeratul didn't know existed) touches his mind and finds the location of Aiur.
4.- Zerg invade Aiur and relocate the Overmind there.

Protoss Campaign (Happens entirely on Aiur):
5.- You fight off some zerg in Antioch
6.- Tassadar lets Fenix know that killing cerebrates fucks up the swarm, but he doesn't know that you need Dark Templar energies to kill a Cerebrate
7.- Plan doesn't work, Cerebrate revives, fucks Fenix up the butt
8.- Tassadar branded a traitor, Protoss spend precious time fighting among themselves.
9.- Protoss get their shit together and mount an attack on a couple of Cerebrates in order to open a path to the Overmind
10.- Protoss and Terran forces kill the Overmind, this is the worthwhile thing they did after killing the Cerebrates in mission 9.

Brood war Protoss campaign:
11.- Kerrigan fucks the Protoss up the butt by mind controlling Raszagal.

>>50523906
I think the red shirts are getting a lot more credit then due, those phasers will fuck the others up but I think the others have a shit ton of range on them. I think Clones are probably the way to go as they are bred for war, especially if that commissar gets taken out. I think the Rines might freak out the IG who mistake them for SMs at first. Though the Spacemarines deserve more credit. That Gauss rifle fires a giant ass spike IIRC and they do have powered armor. I know the fluff says it's mainly for environmental shit but theres gotta be some performance enhancing going on to let them move so easily in it.

>>50524761
>Terran armour has never been shown to be super effective though.
Going with game mechanics.
Basic marine with cheapest armour have 0 DR, it is more environmental suit than armour, and exoskeleton.

But marine can be outfitted with different models of armour going from 1 to 3 DR.
In comparison basic siege tank armour is 1. So marine's protection can be durable if he is equipped with high standard one.

So the question is what kind of marine?
Dominion are probably given basic shit on mass.
Kel-Morian ones would get something better like 1 maybe 2 DR.
While Umoja being smallest terran "state" is high on quality of troops and cutting edge tech, so their marines would be getting DR 3 variant.

As for firepower that rifles can punch through tank armour, so they comes with a kick.

While lasgun is less maintenance AK-47 in SPACE as far as I remember.
And I don't know WH40k to judge armour besides "cardboard" meme.

Also I don't know what armour clone troopers used and how powerful blaster relay is.

>>50524487
I think Terran Marines have a bit more survivability than Storm Troopers

especially with a medic

>>50523906
Redshirts are jokes on their show, but they are Federation trained volunteers. They are the most likely to have the sense to hide and watch before acting rather than proactively seek out the enemy.

The Terran Marines, having the least training and lower stands for entry, are most likely to make a mistake and attack unwisely.

The Cadians are very well trained, but their would focus on holding ground more than attacking. They'd find a defensive position and take it, but they wouldn't be very subtle about it.

The Clones seemingly fulfill any battlefield role and therefore have the widest array of battle experience. Their equipment is probably best for allowing movement across difficult terrain. They are easily the best ambushers in the fight.

My prediction is that the Cadians bunker up on a hill while the Redshirts and Clones keep a low profile and the Terrans hunt for enemies.

The two factions not trying to stay out of sight, the Cadians and the Terrans, would end up fighting, and both sides take severe losses. The Clones would take the opportunity to ambush whoever is left of the two and wipe them out, but they take losses themselves.

At this stage I'd say that they Redshirts have won. The Redshirts, having observed the fighting, would conclude that deadly force is necessary, but probably attempt to negotiate a truce. If a truce is possible, they win. If not, they have the numbers and far superior weapons. If they have Tricorders then they also have long range detection. In addition, the Clones have given away their position and still have no idea what the Redshirts are capable of. If it came to a fight I think the Redshirts would win just because the Clones would not expect an enemy that can disintegrate their cover.

So the Redshirts win, because they would not fight unless they had to, by which point they would be past their reservations about deadly force and able to use their weapons to their fullest.

>>50526418
>And I don't know WH40k to judge armour besides "cardboard" meme.

Flak Armour is pretty good at deflecting shrapnel/debris thrown up by blasts and will protect against glancing weapon impacts, but it's unlikely to stop a direct hit from an anti-infantry weapon. Gauss Rifles would punch right through it. Blasters as well, probably. I don't know enough about Phasers to comment.

>>50526418
Raynor did shrug off a shot from tychs gauss rifle which is impressive as its a rail gun. Keep in mind toss and zerg use extreme shit. Zerg maybe nids lite buit they all come with monomolecular blades and what have you. Only reason i would count out rines is that they're essentially rednecks inb power armor and the imp guard and clones have beaten worse

>>50524487
There are a wide range of marines from freshly wiped former criminals to veteran war elites.

Their weapons would be fairly powerful. The calibur of their weapons is quiet high.

So long as the phasers arent aimed at them first they would win. They have more staying power and stopping power than the other two groups. Just phasers are one hit kills.

>>50526524
Lolwut

Flak is not shit at all, and in fact can even stop 50 caliber rounds cold. Problem is that it doesn't do so well against high powered kinetics like railguns or energy weapons.

>>50526637
>The problem is it does nothing against any sort of weapon the imperium would go against other than things civilians would have access to.

Right. So it's shit in any setting other than modern.

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>>50523906
>power level threads

>>50526418
While lasgun is less maintenance AK-47 in SPACE as far as I remember.

that's just memes. Lasguns are more powerful than modern assault rifles and only look weak because everything they go up against is just that much tougher than humans.

>>50525841
even then, look at the likes of cody and his squadron of clone troopers. IIRC, cody's platoon becomes the 501st.

>>50526105
>blaster power is very inconsistent throughout SW. Sometimes they can punch through tanks, sometimes they have trouble killing an unarmored Leia.

Don't forget that Leia was wearing about a solid foot of impenetrable, main-character, plot-armour: She could've tanked a hit from a capital-ship's turbo-laser & it would've been a 'flesh wound'.

>>50526186
fluff-wise, the imperial guard are the top echelons of what humanity has to offer, and certain squads may have access to carapace armor. Not an entire platoon, but a squad being sent on a certain pass/fail mission? Definitely. These are also cadian guardsmen, who've been raised since birth to fight on the front lines, holding the eye of terror against daemons and CSMs. These aren't your average guardsmen from an overpopulated hive world being sent to handle an ork WAAAAAGH! They're the best of the best.

>>50525490
>I'm an idiot that doesn't know the differences between Clone Troopers and Storm Troopers, and don't know jack shit about how their armor actually works.

>>50526549
The guns that the Terran marines use are all over the place in terms of firepower.

The lore says it's a railgun and that it's really good. But then you look at the cinematics and it's portrayed as nothing more but a 50.cal machine gun or something. Shit, most of the cinematics make it look like total crap. The guy from the Brood War intro unloads something like several hundred rounds and can't kill 2 zerglings. On the other hand, Jim and Tychus barge into Valerian's ship and hose down a squad of marines like their armor isn't even there.

It's kinda hard to do these types of threads when the creators themselves can't decide how strong stuff is.

>>50526273
>disintegration Phasers

Phasers are routinely set to stun or kill, neither setting dissolves starship parts or crates. They would be set to stun, and when that was found to be ineffective against 3 squads of armoured proper soldiers, they'd dial it up to kill. Which would only bring it on par with a laspistol or blaster- a fancy ray gun. It takes fiddling with Phasers before they become fukken disintegration beams and even at that point, they are still pistol form.

Meanwhile the real soldiers are all carrying rifles that can gun the Redshirts down from far outside the effective range of their handguns.

A blaster would be roughly on par with a lasgun in terms of range and stopping power ( one hit on an unarmoured human is all you'll need to incapacitate them)
Similarly the Terrain guns. The real argument is how effective the armour is at stopping the others weapons and while the Terrans and the Clones may get HUD and sensor assists from their armour they are not shown to be superior than flak is supposed to be. Flak is the bulletproof vest and helmet of the future, protecting the vital organs from autogun (caseless uzis and m16s) and lasgun ( read blaster) fire. Carapace adds rigid plates that augment the flak with power to stop armour piercing rounds short of autocannons (antitank) and heavybolters.
Unlike the Terrans bulky suits it won't prevent the guard from making full use of cover.

The Clones battlerifles may outrange the lasgun and terranguns as they are long weapons with scopes. In an open field I'd expect them to gun down any opposition before they get into effective range.

Otherwise it comes down to skill and the cadians and 501st are the best their respective militaries have to offer in rank and file soldiers, not commando teams like Delta Squad and the Tempestus Scions.
Terrans are conscripted criminals and Security officers are bouncers carrying pistols that can be dialled up to plasmapistols.

>>50524040
>Not for actual bullets for some reason.
Fuck 'em. They're prisoners.

>>50524322
/thread
Everything after this was a waste of time.

>>50524322
>all sides move in
>not Feddie scum hanging back and letting their more powerful adversaries take each other out
Killed my suspension of disbelief.

I would first point out that not all terran marines are re-socialized (in universe term for the brainwashing treatment used) convicts. There are actual volunteers. Furthermore even Resocs aren't absolutely useless, they get training.

Clone trooper armor is designed to mitigate damage from energy weapons to insane degrees, and I can't imagine Cadian lasgun doing jack shit against them, but Terran Marine weaponry would shred through it like no problem.
While phasers has inconsistent levels of power, I can assume they'd easily pierce the clone armor regardless, but clone troopers are bred for war, they simply just have far too much experience under their belt compared to most of the opponents.

In most of cases they'd win, provided they play smart and surprise most dangerous enemy for them first either Marines or Redshirts.
Once both of those are eliminated, they can dick around as long as they need to take care of IG

>>50529480

The cadians are also literally breed for war and raised from birth to be soldiers. They also have comparatively more experience since the forced maturation of the clones means they have had only a ten year training period, while the Cadians have had 20 plus with combat experience.

>>50525666
>Does any of this really matter? It's a nuke fight?

>>50525666

Movies a shit compared to book.

>>50529501
I'd argue that clones would have lot more varied tactical knowledge and understanding as to what kind of strategy employ against their opponents, due the nature of their training the 501st is elite among clone legions.

While as, Tactica Imperialis is lot more rigid, and doesn't really promote too much improvisation, or creative thinking at all (because such is the way to heresy).

>>50529556

I seem to recall the movies were done by someone who hated the books.

>>50529480
last I knew, before newcanon came about, was that Clone armor was also highly resistant to ballistics.

>>50523944
Since when was clone trooper armor good? If it can't handle a blaster laser, how can it handle PHAT Las fire?

>>50526885
>Lasguns are more powerful than modern assault rifles
Also a meme.

>>50526637
>and in fact can even stop 50 caliber rounds cold
citation?

Assuming no crazy gold/blue shirt long for a peaceful resolution, redshirt win.

Phasers set to max with 2 man fireteams. 1 eliminates cover, second eliminates startled, suddenly expose enemy.

Considering the armor involved in all other teams and the feds usually wanting to keep their tech out of unworthy hands (any of those other teams with phasers would be near unstoppaboe), no reason to use anything but max setting.

>>50523906
Is the battle filmed or not?
It's an important factor to determine the accuracy of the trooper.

>>50530821
This. If the battle happens off-screen the guard unit will be wiped out without a chance while the others will perform above standard. If it's onscreen, the roles will probably be reversed

>>50523942
Those aren't clone troopers, those are advance recon commandos, so basically kasrkin-tier for the purpose of this thread

>>50530062
Paul Vanderhoeven. He read the back and went "This is the Fash!" then the first chapter and went "Gotta make a movie to Bash the Fash".

But the book was too awesome, and he's got Rainman autism powers of directing, so the movie came out and everyone was like "Fascism is fucking awesome, I see why everyone likes Starship Troopers" and 20 years later we have Donald Trump as President.

>>50523931
In Starcraft the enemy has a 50% miss chance if you are behind a freebie or "up" a cliff relative to them.

They can use cover just fine it's simply poorly represented in the game.

>>50527916
There are three standard types of phasers, type 1 being the derringer of the federation, type 2 being the one you see most security people use, and type three being the rifle variety. For the sake of argument let's assume the average federation away-team is equipped with nothing but type-2 phasers.

A type-2 phaser comes out of the box with a variety of settings in addition to base cycle stunning and force three (read kill). These include: "cutting" which can cut through the "steelplast" walls of a federation ship and easily sever limbs, settings 6 and 7 which created thermal energy sufficient to liquefy metal, create severe burns, or just boil water, and "maximum" which is powerful enough to vaporize not only the vast majority of humanoids, but even androids in one shot. There's also level 16 which could bore holes through stone and destroy half a building when set to wide-field.

Also blasters are shown to be designed almost entirely for short-range engagements, with very few actual pitched battles taking place in the star wars universe. While the dc-15a could be used as a sniper weapon, it required a tripod mount and would have to be fired on full power, severely reducing its ammunition capacity. This disadvantage is further amplified when you realize larger cartridges were famous for being difficult to reload. Add to that their notoriously inaccurate autofire and you have a weapon that preforms just adequately at all ranges.

>>50524024

Set phasers for 'disintegrate' on a wide beam. It'll chew through power pretty quickly, but it'll kill everything in the room in one hit.

Maybe two hits, for the terran marines.

>>50523906
Federation has 0 chance here: red shirts are *not* killers. They are soft, untried, Even with phasers they are horrifically under equipped compared to everyone else, with neither armor nor tactical gear of any kind. They will die in their first engagement, probably with no enemy casualties inflicted.

The remaining three are an interesting set.

Best defensively equipped are the terran marines. Their power armor offers the best protection out of the group. Plus, with a medic, they are the only team that has any recovery options.

Best offensively equipped is the Cadians. Flamers are able to obliterate anything either team has, and with a commissar backing them, there will be no retreat, no surrender.

That sets the clone troopers dead in the middle, and acting as the hinge on which this conflict will turn.

>>50525291
Their guns may be accurate out to 10km, but they are held by a bunch of poorly disciplined idiots, if the SC2 Terran marine dialogue is anything to go by. Also, gameplay-wise, i've watched terran marines empty lots and lots of rounds into the side of a slight incline because their weapons are targeting something on the other side of said ramp.

>>50530335
A meme that is reflected in gameplay and the lore. A lasgun can blow a sizeable chunk out of a piece of concrete in lore. In the tabletop game there is a significant and obvious difference between a stubber (ordinary projectile gun) and a lasgun. in Only War and Dark heresy and other Tabletop roleplaying games, that difference is magnified. Anyone care to post the stats?

>>50524307

This, there's something to be said for Tricorders.

>>50524388

I think part of the reason the Phasers are always so damn accurate is they're hosing people with the beams.

Its a continuous fire beam weapon, they dont even have sights on them. But you fire, you know exactly where the beam is going at that point - you only need to get it close and like a squirt gun you just correct aim.

They also seem to train up really heavily on reflexes.

> phasers set to disintegrate

Not necessarily. There's a reason almost --nobody-- in star trek wears armor and thats because its like a lightning bolt, it just goes right through.

Even if set to Kill or possibly even Stun its unlikely the armor worn by any of the other factions is going to stop those phaser beams.

Also SC Marines power armor is probably fried, tin cans frozen in place, they have to bail out of their armor so they're fucked.

Granted the redshirts are redshirts so them not employing any armor means they're probably gonna get shot dead by shit coming out of the blue.

Traditionally federation crew default to using cover trading phaser/disrupter fire back and forth until they can get beamed out.

>>50536314
Look again, m8. The base stats are identical, save for the lasgun's true advantages: reliability and ammo capacity. Now, there is the lasgun's variable settings rule, but you can get the same effects with different ammo for your stubber.

>>50536314

Autogun: 1d10+3I Pen 0 S/3/10

Lasgun: 1d10+3E Pen 0 S/3/-

>>50536609

>My Playthrough:

All four sides converge and start investigating terrain. Marines and IG are looking for good ground to defend.

Sporadic fighting develops, Clone troopers and IG take the most serious casualties. Clones fall back strategically, they're dropping like flies out there, and someone has to survive this to make the report. They're looking for a place to bottleneck people.

Redshirts hear gunfire going off, their tricorder readings are correct, they go hide in a cave and send a couple guys to go investigate keeping a sharp eye on their 'corders to avoid any patrols.

IG cant get close enough to the Marines to employ the flamers, they've just got too much damned range with those railguns and they're fully automatic weapons. But the bolters seem to smack them enough to give them cause for concern.

Redshits hiding behind a boulder catch the Marines running from the IG, they're blocking the Red's from getting back to their group and will probably see them so they open fire with Phasers hitting 2 Marines (they go down immediately and their armor is fried like they took an EMP blast), Marines fire back but Red's duck and cover. Firing back and forth commences and they try to make a run for it.

> They run into the IG who were chasing the Marines, redshirts get filled with laser holes because of reaction fire.

Marines fire back to get away killing a few more IG, the IG still dont get to cause any damage with the flamers because of the rocky terrain.

> if Redshirts are there its going to be rocky terrain, as it always is in Star Trek

Medic isnt able to help the 2 that went down and the IG dispose of them.

> Final Results:

Redshirts wait until they hear the next big fight happen (because Ted and Thom didnt come back) and they run the other direction thus evacuating because they're not soldiers.

Marines wander into the Clone MG nest and get wiped, big fight draws the IG there.

IG get close enough to use grenades and flamers. 2 IG guys survive.

>>50536761
flamers ignore cover.

>>50536761

correction: 1 IG soldier and the Commissar survive, the two IG with flamers got scorched.

the Redshirts actually do not survive because the 8 who got away end up being eaten by Megascorpions that just happen to live on this planet, as well as 1 giant ant lion thing in the ground that 2 of them end up falling into without warning.

>>50536836

This is hard cover not soft cover, jagged cliff walls kind of thing, flamethrowers deflect off.

>>50529480
Cadians are raised from birth to do the exact same thing Clones do and the majority of their opponents for their entire lives will be other equally experienced Cadians who succumbed to Chaos due to exposure to the warp. A lasgun isn't a projectile like a blaster, it's point and click hit scan tier. I don't know where your getting the idea of clone armor being any good from. Their suits are referred to as body buckets in some sources.

>>50524024

A Phaser can vaporize buildings or knock a human unconscious depending on its setting.

10 Starfleet ensigns with handphasers could vaporize any of these opposing groups in an instant.

So, Redshirts.

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I like how we have all these posts about how hand-phasers cut through any armour like hot proverbial trough metaphorical & ctrl-Z big chunks of terrain, but all we ever see people doing with them in the show (or even the films) is hunkering down behind an old crate or a barrel or whatever then bobbing up & down like little ducks on a shooting gallery taking pot-shots at on another.

>>50524388
>TL;DR 501st should win but Redshirts because of Trek tech have like a 50% chance or more of wining.

Well, their weirdo cult-ish empire is probably bored of just conquering sectors, so they make a bunch of arbitrary rules and laws that they constantly break just to feel alive and see if they can fail their way to success.

>>50523906
Probably the Clones or the Red Shirts. Phasers are super deadly but clones know how to divide themselves up and fight with asymmetrical warfare and would be a lot harder then the starcraft marines or the imperial guards with their cluster tactics and entrench static defence warfare.

>>50530062

Well yeah. Honestly the movies are nothing like the books, and do their best to make fun of it through satire.

>>50530287

Don't know about new cannon, but i do know that in old canon it wasnt good against balistics. Pretty much no one used them. Only example of ballistics i know of was Verpine Rifles, and verps went through their armor like tissue paper.

>>50525490
>Leia surviving one while wearing a cloak
That was a stun setting, they mention it right before shooting. Also, you can tell because it was blue circles rather than the normal single red/green/whatever projectile.

Also, just putting it out there that sine everyone in canon in SW uses blasters it could be that clone armor is really good by other settings' standards but blasters are retarded OP so everyone dies when hit anyway. I doubt it's that good, but until we see one of them go up against something directly comparable to another setting we don't know. I'd say their weapons and armor are probably at least as good as what the guard have, probably somewhat better.

>>50523906
Since this is tg, why not talk rpgs? For clones and guard you could use Edge of the Empire and Dark Heresy as tools for comparison. Both are made by fantasy flight and the average human character has about the same health in either. Their base weapons also deal similar damage, 1d10+3 vs 9. Clone laminate give 2 points of soak and guard flak gives 4, carapace giving a whopping 6. If weapon damage and average human health are anything to go by, that would make a guardsman of average toughness in carapace almost immune to blaster fire and a clone with brawn 3 in laminate would be absorbing 58.8% incoming damage.

Personally I would like to think clone equipment is more in line with flak armor for at least 4 relative armor.

I know there have been at least three star trek rpgs, but I've never played one. Don't know how we'd fit terran marines in, but they would have to be twice as good as a guardsman just to make up for the numbers.

>>50539275
and dont forget about flamers and commissar

>>50523906
armour isn't going to have any effect against the laser weapons, so that puts marines at a disadvantage. red shirts will get torn to pieces by whoever shoots at them, so them getting the jump is crucial to survival. I would say the clone troopers act better as a squad, IG usually do things in ludicrous sized battles so the clones should be better there.

The commissar will be the best in combat hands down, with either a chainsword or a power sword.

the way I see it...

>red shirts win only if they see their targets first
>IG wins if it comes down to melee
>clone troopers win if it gets drawn out and comes down to shooting
>marines win if the medic is particularly amazing and keeps them up

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Why the fuck isint this a game?

>squad loadouts
>controlling an AI fireteam
>predator-esq warp magic bullshit arena story
>faction hero battles

ODSTs? Hellghast? Foxhound? Shinra Marines?

Hnnnnngggg

Reminder that Terran Marines (at least in the confederacy) are brainwashed killing machines, not actually untrained convicts.

>>50539948
>Shinra Marines

You mean SOLDIER?

>>50523906
Definitely not the Federation. They're the only side who's going to try and resolve things either peacefully or with stun weapons, while the others will shoot to kill immediately.

>>50530323
Blasters aren't really laser weapons. They are more like plasma.