>character is supposed to be the big strong guy >try to

Not all big strong guys are created equal.

>>50509853
i have the highest strength a character can have but the dice don't like me so i can't do my only thing

>>50509873
Actually describe the situation as it occured instead of being so fucking vague you might as well be describing shape of clouds.
What system did you use, what were your relevant stats, what were you trying to do, what result did you roll?

>>50509824
Have you tried playing Mutants and masterminds 3e?

>>50509824
Details?

File: They look like big, strong hands....jpg (34KB, 720x368px) Image search: [Google]

34KB, 720x368px

>>50509824
Even a big strong guy can be too weak.

>>50509824
Go play freeform if you don't like dice you fucking mongoloid.

Alternatively just use take 10 and come up with some better bait

File: Clippy.png (124KB, 362x335px) Image search: [Google]

124KB, 362x335px

>>50509824
It looks like you're trying to enjoy playing a physically strong character in D&D.

Would you like help?

Have you tried playing a Cleric or Druid?

Have you tried playing with a GM who bends the system to your favor?

Have you tried not playing D&D?

>>50509937
But they look like big strong hands anon!

>>50509824
>Character supposed to be smooth talker guy
>Try to smooth talk
>sorry, dice say no
>cannot do smooth talker thing despite being smooth talker

did i get fucking tricked?

In all honesty, it's the nature of the game.

>>50509894


but anon, if OP did that then he'd have nothing to back pedal into!

>>50509824
Your GM calls for skill checks too often, then, simple as that. Even the Rules Cyclopedia warned you not to do that.

>>50510018
Basically what I was hoping to say here >>50509897 but without turning it into a martials vs casters or 3.5 bitching thread.

>>50509937
Well...look at it this way: NOTHING is stronger than him!

>>50509824
Think of it as "You weren't able to do it this time", not "You're not strong enough"

>>50510143
Basically this, pointless Rollin on your DM's part.

I'd probably let you pass most strong man stuff as long as it isn't pushing your physical limits or you aren't being hindered by an imposing force.

>>50509824
No, your just another may may shit poster making the same "lol I hate d&d" thread over and over again. Faggot

>>50510155
>without turning it into a martials vs casters or 3.5 bitching thread
It already was one before you posted.

>>50509824
>did i get fucking tricked?
It depends. There are many situations where as a DM I wouldn't consult the dice for things, but simply go with the appropriate result.

>strength 19
>shabby wooden door
You dislocate your shoulder, scream like a girl and lose confidence in your strength for the next 2 weeks (-3 on all rolls). Also, the wizard has lost her last respect for you.

>>50509824
Actualpy I agree with the OP. There's some situations where you shouldn't roll the dice at all. You either can lift 200 pounds or not, no ifs and buts about it. Alternatively, if the GM hasn't got a clear idea in his mind how much an item weights or how strong a door is and rolls the dice to see if it was in the character's range, then any weaker character should automatically fail without rolling for it if the stronger character fails to lift or break it. It's just basic logic.

File: cia_small_guy.png (573KB, 600x930px) Image search: [Google]

573KB, 600x930px

>>50509824
Maybe you're a small guy afterall

>>50511023
>then any weaker character should automatically fail
Nah, not quite.
While I think you are mostly right I don't think you should see it quite that binary. There are also things like technique and how well you slept and ate etc.
Where you draw the line is your business, but if a str 18 elf girl fails at it, I'll still permit a str 17 halfling to try his luck. If the str 9 barbarian can do it, the aforementioned str 18 elf girl won't have to consult the dice.

File: Imagegtgg.jpg (40KB, 640x480px) Image search: [Google]

40KB, 640x480px

>>50509824
>>thread is supposed to have greentext story
>>try to read story
>>sorry, greentext is vague bait thread
>>read through thread despite knowing OP is a faggot
>did i get fucking tricked?

Stop playing d&d with its swingy-ass rolls.
>You are the strongest human that has ever lived
>There is a 1 in 4 chance that you can't break open this "Easy" wooden chest

>>50512019
>even the most nimble-fingered thief has only a 25% chance to open it
>there is a 100% chance the wizard can open it with some shitty cantrip
And that's why I never played anything other than a wizard. Sure is nice being the only character capable of doing their job with any degree of consistency.

>>50509824
The strongest guys in the world routinely fail weightlifting attempts. If they succeed, they try to lift a little more next time.

>>50511023
>You either can lift 200 pounds or not, no ifs and buts about it.
Sure... in an ideal situation. But "ideal situation" rarely describes things when you're adventuring. Maybe your hands are wet or the surface is otherwise slippery. Maybe you can't get a good grip because of the shape. Maybe you don't have a good footing, so you slip. Maybe you're tired or distracted. Maybe the wound you recently took didn't quite heal as well as it should have, despite the healing potion you drank afterwards. There are plenty of reasons why you might fail to lift something, even though you could easily lift something of equal weight at gym when you're reasonably well rested and don't have any unusual circumstances to worry about.

>>50509824
That's why the rules for "take 10" and "take 20"(and their equivalents in other systems) exist.

>>50512212
To be fair, OP wouldn't know that.

File: no survivors.gif (2MB, 500x500px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 500x500px

>>50509824
Congrats, you are now Worf.
Have fun being Worf.

I always play Worf too.

>>50509873
>>50509824
Obviously your character just has a bad back.

>>50513668
Probably from all the lifting he did.

>>50509824
>be big strong guy
>roll poorly, fail to do big strong guy thing
>7-strength wizard decides to give it a try
>the dice are with him and it works

>>50509824
If there's no chance of failure why bother using dice at all?

Just freeform roleplay your big strong character who succeeds at everything ever. It might get a bit boring though.

>be masturbater
>doesn't improve the quality of my bait

>d&d fags so brainwashed that they think a non-swingy system would have to be freeform
Holy shit.

>>50509824
You have a shitty DM.
DMs are supposed to weigh the situations and measure all variables before determining the outcome.

>>50514095
>people who like what I don't like are brainwashed

>>50511023
Well 200 pounds should be easily liftable by anyone who isn't an actual girl (assuming we're talking deadlifts, actually doing a clean and jerk of 200 pounds isn't much harder for an adult male, but takes a while to get used to the proper technique), but take it up to olympic lift levels.
Competition lifts are almost never as high as training weights, because many factors affect maximum capacity, and one cannot control those factors well enough to take the risk at a competitive stage. When you're pushed to your limits, especially when you've got asstons of adrenaline pumping through you, lifting a weight is NOT binary and you'd have to be a DYEL manlet skelly fagtron to think so

>>50513668
>>50513839
He would have gone pro of it wasn't for that bum knee.

That's why as a rule, I explain failed rolls not as your character being bad at their job, but as bad luck or adverse circumstances.

In other words, the dice didn't decide that you're not a smooth enough talker, they decided that you were unlucky and met the ONE GUARD who reacted to your claim to being the Ambassador of Driesland by saying "Sir, I've met the Ambassador. He's a good friend of mine."

Or whatever other excuse you can make to make it not the character's fault, but adverse circumstances. You fail the climb check not because you somehow forgot how climbing works, but because whatever you tied the rope to got pulled out.

>>50509873
6/10
4 for the overall bait. Low quality, not enough detail to really cause rage.
+2 for keeping the problem vague enough that this could be misinterpreted as either a Martials in 3.5 suck argument, or thay the fault lies with the d20 system as a whole.

Would not respond seriously.

>>50514252
It is some serious brainwashing if you think any non-swingy system is freeform, yes.
Thank you for agreeing with me by not contesting this point.

>>50514330
My DM does this too, and it does a lot to take the sting out of rolling like shit.

>>50513196
all my players know the take ten and twenty rules

>>50513867
as a dm, its bad form to allow this. if the big guy cant do it, the little guy cant either. he can roll to assist at most, but can only add his modifier to the the big guys roll.

>>50514479
Strawman.

I said a system without a chance for failure not a "non-swingy" system.

>>50514589
Nah, fuck off. Sometimes people can do shit they wouldn't normally, and sometimes people who can do shit normally fuck it up.

>>50514280
I think you're overestimating most people m8, the average male is weak as shit, I'd lower that down to like 150 pound deadlifts at most.

>>50514627
i dont believe that in standard rolling situations (ignoring outside situations like fighting or escaping where "adrenaline" could be a factor) that someone who weighs 100 pounds dripping wet can lift a stone boulder by themselves as easily as someone akin to a professional athlete.
>Another example; I would never be as good at sucking dick as you present yourself to be. I wouldn't even try and would instead leave it to you.

>>50514758
I disagree. I'm a pretty skinny guy and even I can deadlift 200lbs.

We're talking about just picking it up off the ground here not hoisting over your shoulders.

>>50514778
That's fine, it just shows how big of an idiot you are.

But please, throw in a few more pointless insults, I'm sure that'll talk someone around to your point.

>>50514790
Picking up 200 lbs for a few moments with a lot of strain is different than being able to actually lift it with good form for a decent amount of time
>>50514821
He is making a perfectly good argument on top of the insults, though.

You're not supposed to even roll if it is strictly impossible for a character to do something. If the level 3 fighter wants to roll to see if he can leap into across the ocean you just tell him "no". Rolls are for things on which the result is on question. The skinny 7 str wizard would accomplish nothing by trying to lift, say, a 750lb boulder. Absolutely nothing. He probably could hardly het it to budge unless it was the right shape. If someone else picked it up and gave it to the wizard, the sheer weight would fuck his spine and rupture a few tendons on the way.

>>50515241
Also: While people are able to use far more strength than they would usually be able to on a pinch, this usually ends with horrific muscle damage when taken to extremes, and most the tales of mothers lifting cars to save their children and such are purely anecdotal or have other variables which are omitted in favor of a good story.

>>50514589
>>50514778
>>50515241
Failing a roll doesn't necessarily mean it's impossible for a character to do something. It normally means they just failed, for any number of other reasons. That's why rerolling certain actions is a thing. Maybe the athlete just plain botches his form, was in a rush, their grip was slipping, etc, so they failed. Maybe the non-athlete happened to get a solid grip, or somehow lucked into the right form for lifting a heavy load, so they managed to get it to bulge, if not move it altogether if they passed the threshold for moving it.

That's like saying if my parties warlock failed a persuasion roll, and I try it with different wording/approach (while having only a minor difference in Charisma), he says "Nah, if the most charismatic person in the party couldn't convince the NPC, you won't be able to either," even though I passed the rolls well. Or better, if the Warrior with her strength and proficiency couldn't move a large boulder, by with just my +5 in strength I do pass, the DM goes "Nah, she better at strength things then you, so if she couldn't, you obviously can't," even though again, I passed the roll well.

Btw, she's like, 80-100 lb and 4-6" smaller then my character, and not some muscle women, while he's got a body not unlike a heavyweight boxer from daily physical labor and training before his adventuring. How exactly would he not be able to move that bolder, but she would?

>tldr: restricting what a character can do based on their stats, because someone else has better stats, even though both can pass the roll, but the one with better stats failed, is bad, and only a bad DM would do this.

>>50514589
Don't listen to these faggots
>>50514627
>>50515823
If the strongest guy in the party can't lift the boulder than nobody else in the party should be able to lift the boulder either, barring exceptions such as spells or machinery.

Not only does it tank the morale of the big guy who wanted to be the strong man of the party but it also leads to stupid situations where the luck of the player supersedes the skill of the character.

>"Oh, you got an 18 STR and 16 CON? Well fuck you, the dice hate you and you drop it on your foot, take 1d10 damage!
>"Oh, you want to try your luck Mr. Twink? Oh damn, you not only lifted the boulder but a team of supermodel elves come out of the brush and take turns sucking your dick, doesn't matter that you only have 8 STR, you're the strongest fella in the party!"

If you can't handle being forced to deal with your weaknesses then you're obviously more of a rollplayer than the guy who wants to succeed at doing the job he was built around doing.

>>50514599
So you made a strawman, then?
Because Op was upset about the swinginess overriding stats.

>>50513975
It'd certainly be a step up from having every action being just as likely to fail horribly than they are to succeed spectacularly.

"Oh, you're playing a Barbarian with max STR attempting to pick up a 50 lb. rock and toss it? Well that's going to take penalties because of improvised weapon, and you're going to have to roll even though you're more than capable of launching the rock with one hand."

"Oh, you only got a 9? Well you only throw the rock a meter in front of you and everyone laughs at what a limp wristed faggot you are!"

"Oh, you're going to cast telekinesis? Okay cool, you launch the 200 lb. slab of marble into the enemy and because they failed their reflex roll, you manage to squash them like a bug, good for you."

>>50516116
>"Oh, you're playing a Barbarian with max STR attempting to pick up a 50 lb. rock and toss it? Well that's going to take penalties because of improvised weapon, and you're going to have to roll even though you're more than capable of launching the rock with one hand."

Yeah, in that situation there should be no check to pick up the rock. The penalties represent the fact that you probably won't hit the target, not that you wouldn't be able to throw it at all.

>>50509873
>>50509824
Usually, you only ever roll for things you have a chance of failing.

So if you're rolling a die, there's a chance you're not strong enough to do the thing you want to do.

If it's something like a critfail, you pull a muscle.

>>50516228
Nice homerules.
I agree, it is generally better to avoid using the extremely swingy roll system when possible.

If only there were some way to use dice to get an even curve. In some kind of... Bell shape.

>>50516228
Yeah, in a perfect world sure.

But I've played in a campaign where my Eidolon, who was rocking something like an 18 STR, had to roll a STR check to pick up my character, a 100 lb. summoner who wasn't struggling or impeding his eidolon's ability to pick him up.

The general rule of thumb I employ when playing deeandee is that I try to roll as rarely as humanly possible, which works out beautifully since mages will rarely have to touch their dice beyond rolling for damage and will most likely get more bang for their buck compared to their martial counterparts.

>>50509824
Shadowrun is really bad at this. I remember the 4e rules for strength a 6 ST char cant lift more than like 200 lbs.

>>50516256
Fun fact: There's nothing in the rules saying that you have to roll a strength check whenever you pick something up.

>>50509824
>>50511023
Most games I've encountered handle physical feats as thus:

You have a base amount you can lift/sprint/jump that you do not even need to roll for. This is based on your relevant stats.

If you want to surpass this base amount, you can roll. The results of the roll determine how far beyond your base you can manage. This usually will not take you below your base, with the possible exception of a crit fail. Depending on system.

So really, this is just another case of people playing a garbage system if this is something that actually happens.

>>50516316
There are rules for trying to lift objects of weight, however.

>>50516116
This is why good systems have crit ranges (both fail and success) that change based on the character's current skill. Like BRP/RQ with its crit success range of 1/10th your skill rating and a crit fail range that shrinks at extremely high skill. GURPS also does this.

File: de6.jpg (66KB, 831x445px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 831x445px

>>50509824
Let's make sure that we tried standard RPG problem solving procedure:
1. Have you tried not playing D&D?
If yes:
Is problem still present?

>>50516059
What's the cutoff, you strawmanning fucktard? 1 point of STR lower, you don't even get to attempt after the strong guy has a shitty roll?

2 STR lower? Three? Four?

>>50516449
Equal or lower STR, yes. If the strongman couldn't lift it then it means you need more strength than he had.

>>50516503
Or a better grip, or...

There's a million things that not being able to lift it could mean. I'm really fucking glad I'll never play with a retard like you. Same fucking STR can't even roll my goddamn ass.

>>50516449
>>50516555
>http://www.d20srd.org/srd/carryingCapacity.htm
The above is a chart that tells you what your carrying capacity will be based on the STR of your character.

A character with 18 STR will have a light load of <=100, mid load of 101-200, and heavy load of 201-300. This also means that they could lift up to 300 lb, 600 lb. if they don't mind being staggered and losing their DEX, and drag up to 1500 lb. if they wanted to.

So with that being said, a character with 17 STR will have a light load of <=86, 16 STR will have a light load of <=76, 15 STR will have a light load of <=66, etc.

So based on that, if the strongest member of the party is unable to lift a heavy object then it stands to reason that anyone who is weaker than him won't be able to lift it either.

With that being said, if you were to use magic or machinery or pull your combined STR together to aid the strong man then that's different but if the strong man can't lift it and you won't be able to either.

Next time ask if you can "take 10" or "take 20". Explain that your character is sizing up the task carefully, finding the best grip points, timing their breathing, and focusing fully on the task at hand.

If not playing D&D, ask about circumstantial modifiers or just doing (without a roll) a normal human feat when not stressed. Most games with dice rolls really intend to reserve them for stressful situations, like in the middle of combat, or racing to pull open a grate before a guard rounds a corner.

>try to make tanky Paladin character
>get one-shotted by crab people

>>50509824
>Playing games where dice karma is more important than skill.
You stop that shit now. Luck is good and a pivotal part of a lot of games, but you should succeed more often than not if you're optimized.

File: 1480807196925.jpg (54KB, 645x613px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 645x613px

>>50509824
Oh look! this thread again. This thread that is posted everyday, by the same may may fag.

That's what I like about Dungeon World. You get to do what your character's good at but if you roll poorly something bad happens. Bad rolls don't make you look incompetent, they just make you look unlucky.

You need 25 STR to roll for this.
Your char has 16 STR.
How about every strength-related dice you roll will have a +16?

>>50521526
What's the 25 for? Putting cracks on the great wall of china, I hope.

>>50521526
What are you doing that requires 25 strength?

Are you trying to crack a mountain in half of something?

>>50522116
Brushing my teeth with diamond-plated toothbrush for the perfectly pearly-white shine.

File: smug loli 3.jpg (58KB, 579x567px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 579x567px

>>50516059
>Waaaa, I'm not being the ____ of the party this time, I can't have fun anymore!
>Waaaa, only I get to be ____! Nobody else!
>And if I can't, nobody else can!
You're strongman has a fragile fucking morale, one that revolves around him being the best. This is bad and hampers fun for everyone in the party.

Everyone should be able to do everything, if they mechanically can, and roleplay it accordingly. Strongest guy just hefts it, second strongest has to use technique he saw a while ago, while the weakest pushes himself and nearly breaks, but barely makes it. And that's the great roleplay of it. Everyone solves the same problem, but describes it in a different way, specifically appropriate to them. Strongman does it most time, and the others do it sometimes, but if they can do it, they're free to do it.

It's kinda funny, as our DM you'd say our warrior isn't allowed to even try charisma stuff when our warlock fails, even though she still wants to try because she wants to roleplay a different approach to convincing the npc.

>If you can't handle being forced to deal with your weaknesses then you're obviously more of a rollplayer than the guy who wants to succeed at doing the job he was built around doing.
>having a +4 to someones +5 is a weakness
>this +4 means you can't succeed if they've failed
>Even if success is very attainable for both of you
>Success = only way to have fun
>Calls others rollplayers, when he himself forces people to be rollplayers if they want to do things, because fuck roleplaying being weak but still trying

>>50516631
>if the strongest member of the party is unable to lift a heavy object then it stands to reason that anyone who is weaker than him won't be able to lift it either
>20 & 19 STR lift similar loads
>approach thing they can both lift with effort
>If 20 can't lift the thing they can both lift, then it's impossible for 19 to lift it, obviously, 20 didn't just give it a mediocre try that time
>autism

>>50521526
What am I wrestling fucking Grendel or something

>>50522070
>>50522116
>>50522294
Dumb example. Would you guys be more comfortable with a "you need 17 STR"?

>>50522308
I'd rather have a "we're not playing DnD anymore. Here's a better system I found where this kind of dumb shit isn't hard-coded to make your character concept suffer."

>>50509824
Perhaps you were only a large gent relative to the size of the people in question?

There's a lot of legitimate non-buzz-wordy autism in here.

>>50522751
Yeah, I think it's dumb too, anyways. I'd rather have my players think and make their choices count.
I mean, you stumble across a troll that wants you to solve a riddle for you to get pass through him and you roll a dice just to get away with it, without taking some of your time to think a little bit which may be the answer? I'll have none of that bullshit.

>>50522999
If you're going to play a character smarter than yourself, you need to have a way to succeed at matters relevant to intelligence.

I can see how solving riddles sometimes can be fun and if the GM bothered to come up with one, you owe it to him to at least try (unless he bombards you with the stupid things where it's really just tedious). But ultimately it's like all the other skills. The fact that you, the player, are bad at something doesn't mean that your character should be.
I remember on game where I had the lowest intelligence score of the group but I still had to solve all the riddles because they were beyond the ability of my co-players to solve and I was too young and eager to say that my character wasn't the type to sit down and figure that shit out.

>>50522308
I think I preferred coming up with absurd things that one would need 25 strength for.

>>50522261
Let me put this in a way that even you can understand.

Now, this is going to be hyperbole but let's say that the strongest person in the party is Superman. Superman, in canon, was able to lift a book of infinite pages and a being that was a physical manifestation of time itself (whose weight was also infinite).

So, based on that, if there was an object that even Superman couldn't lift, it stands to reason that nobody else in the justice league would be able to lift it either, except for maybe WW or Shazam since they also were able to lift infinity as well.

I don't give a fuck about how you'd try to bullshit your way past this limitation but how much your character could lift is hard coded into the rules and even losing one point of STR will cause you to immediately start to slack off in a significant way, as seen here >>50516631

If you want to be able to show up the strongest dude in the party, either use magic or invent some sort of crane, or play a better system.

>>50526507
>Superman
>used for any comparison ever
I mean, let's forget that Supe's strength is different with every different plot. The difference between a human's strength a human's strength and Supe's is slightly bigger than between two humans.
As has been pointed out in this thread numerous times, just because you can theoretically lift a particular weight, doesn't mean you can do it every time and under sub-optimal conditions.
The human body is a very complicated machine, not a mathematical construct.
You may quote the rules, but those same rules also permit strength rolls.

>>50526563
If anyone who rolls a good STR roll is capable of lifting the heavy object then what's the point of even having the highest STR in the party?

It's already hard as fuck to feel like a powerful character when the game hamstrings you at every opportunity but now you're going to tell me that the one niche that I can say that have a strong claim on doesn't even matter since everyone in the party can roll a good STR and say "oh hey, I did it" regardless of how much sense it makes within the context of the narrative?

Fuck off!

If the strongest guy in the party can't lift it, assume that it's heavier than anyone else can lift unless they have the same STR score and try to lift it using other means, such as magic or technology, as was previously stated.

Don't like it? Play a system where this isn't even an issue.

File: 1454976910172.png (76KB, 280x309px) Image search: [Google]

76KB, 280x309px

>>50522261
>Everyone should be able to do everything, if they mechanically can
There would be literally no point into being skilled into anything if it means that different ways of saying something still gets me the same results. God forbid some people in a party do things others cant, right?

>>50516116
What's the problem here?


The point is that every action that carries a chance for failure requires a dice roll.

Just because you have the STR required to lift an object doesn't mean you automatically succeed. Maybe the rock is slippery and you can't hold onto it properly. Even great athletes fuck up and injure themselves sometimes.

File: 1361693394452.jpg (68KB, 558x344px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 558x344px

>>50516336
This.

>>50526621
>anyone
I didn't say anyone. You keep trying your hand at slippery slope. First Superman vs man, now strongest vs weakest, both to argue that even a difference of 1 point should bar you from even trying.
>what's the point of even having the highest STR in the party?
A number of advantages come with high strength scores, even if you aren't the only one capable of smashing doors to pieces. But even with the doors, you still can do it better than the others. I'll also point you to my previous post >>50511161.
Read it and stop being silly.

>>50509824
In order to play a big strong guy, OP, you can't just try to muscle things. You have to have a master plan.

>>50526903
>There would be literally no point into being skilled into anythin
>there is no point in working out and being able to run 20 miles without taking a break if other people can just take breaks and finish the race a lot later
Okay.

File: result of training.png (3KB, 710x266px) Image search: [Google]

3KB, 710x266px

>>50509824
>implying hypertrophy training develops strength

bodybuilders btfo

>>50526924
By that same token, a dude who is capable of lifting 300 lb. without breaking a sweat should be able to lift a heavy ass rock with the same amount of relative ease as someone bending over to lift up a penny.

STR rolls should only be used if the resident strongman in the party is lifting something that's at the edge of his fullest extent, if a dude with 9 STR is just as capable of lifting a heavy ass boulder on his own than the 18 STR barbarian than I honestly question why we even have stats in the first place.

>>50526953
What the fuck kind of analogy is that.
How is doing slow paced travel the same as running a marathon? How does that correlate to one being able to do one thing while others can't? You need to stop having bad analogies carry your arguments anon

>>50526934
>1
One point is the difference between having a light load of 100 lb. and a light load of 86 lb. The drop off point between STR scores is pretty fucking significant, which is why every point counts.
>2
Yet most of those advantages aren't any more advantageous than just using a spell to receive the same result. Telekinesis on its own invalidates anything my STR based character could do and the resident mage can do it without even having to roll for its effectiveness.

If the mage can invalidate my character without having to roll, why do I have to roll a STR check when I'm otherwise guaranteed to lift this boulder on my own, based on the numbers?

I mean, lord forbid my Barbarian actually be good at ANYTHING that nobody else in the party can do without magic or technology.

>>50526978
The guy with 9 STR can't lift 300 lbs.

The guy with 9 STR might be able to lift the 50 lb rock but not as easily as the 18 STR barb.

That's what DC is for.

>>50527050
DC doesn't really matter when you have a chance to roll a 20 on the die.

Sure, might not necessarily count as a crit but y'know what? Still beats most DC's without even applying modifiers.

>>50527025
>The drop off point between STR scores is pretty fucking significant,
Then it shouldn't be too difficult to argue it. But again, your max strength is different depending on a variety of factors. Maybe the weaker guy is just having a great day while the stronger one is having a miserable one. That would imply they are both some 8% off of their average ability. That's not TOO much, is it?

>Yet most of those advantages aren't any more advantageous than just using a spell to receive the same result.
So you're back to crying about martials' inferiority. That's an unrelated issue. Str 17 is a fighter too.

>If the mage can invalidate my character without having to roll,
Then maybe you should be playing a different system instead of crying about it on the internet.

>why do I have to roll a STR check when I'm otherwise guaranteed to lift this boulder
I don't know. Why do you have to roll to hit an enemy? Because unforeseen circumstances. If you take your time and do it properly under gym conditions then you'll be guaranteed success. If you don't, you better live with the dice.

>I mean, lord forbid my Barbarian actually be good at ANYTHING
Yeah, play a different system.

>>50527085
>when you have a chance to roll a 20 on the die.
I don't permit criticals on strength rolls, except when it's a really rushed situation like in the middle of combat.

>>50527093
>1
We're not talking about IRL bullshit to explain how your twink was able to outlift the resident bear in the party, we're talking about a game, based on the game's rules, which governs what is or is not possible for your character to do.
>2
Yes, I will be crying about martial inferiority because anytime the martial wants to cut out a niche for themselves, all I hear is bitching about why you shouldn't be able to ignore your shit stats because they're physical while I cannot because they're mental.
>3
Irrelevant to this discussion
>4
There's a difference between hitting a dude who is defending itself and lifting an inanimate object that has no say in whether it gets lifted or not.
>5
Irrelevant to this dicussion

>>50527108
Even still, adding +20 to your result is going to let you beat most DCs even if the critical rule isn't being applied.

That's the nature of things when you have a die that's so large yet is just as likely to roll a 1 as it is to roll a 20, shit gets swingy as fuck.

>>50527108
This.

I don't care if you rolled a natural 20 you are NOT wrestling a dragon.

>>50527147
>no fun allowed.
Unless you are roleplaying as accountants, there are no need to appeal to realism.
This is a hobby of make believe and yarn spinning.
If it is fun and interesting, it is allowed. Make everyone happy.

>>50527127
>your twink was able to outlift the resident bear
You are back to your slippery slope, I see?

>based on the game's rules,
Which include rolling for strength.

>Irrelevant to this discussion
Exactly. Stop bringing up your inferiority complex.

>lifting an inanimate object that has no say in whether it gets lifted or not.
But is difficult to get a grip on, is difficult to balance on your feet because it's so large that your combined point of balance is underneath the inanimate object and might even be slippery.

>There's a difference between hitting a dude who is defending itself
And a helpless target that isn't defending himself but requires an attack roll anyway.

>>50527167
The "wacky crazy epic random" stuff gets boring after the first few sessions, and for some people they LIKE having things grounded to reality. It's not badwrongfun just because it's semi-serious.

>>50526903
Key phrase: "if they mechanically can"

>>50527201
You seem able to only to live and deal in extremes.
Oh well, too bad for you then.

>>50509824
You lifted with your back in a twisting a jerking movement,next time use your legs.

>>50527227
That seems to apply to you, where a session is either "I wrestle the dragon lol" or "you must roll twenty die, count your muscles and see the gods favor to walk"

>>50527216
And some people mechanically should not, like how glass bones jimmy shouldn't be able to lift the weight when large mcbuff huge couldn't.

>>50527256
>And some people mechanically should not,
Right.
Who's arguing for the frail wizard to try his hands at boulders that the broad-shouldered berserker couldn't move?
Why can't you argue fairly?

>>50527183
>1
Focus
>2
Why am I rolling for something that my character should be able to feasibly perform? Even in cases where olympic athletes fuck up, the results would be categorized as a critical fumble, but since fumbles wouldn't apply to STR rolls, the result shouldn't matter unless it's at the edge of what's possible for this character to do.
>3
Focus
>4
You keep trying to inject realism into a game where magic exists. Why exactly does every time the martial want to do a cool guy thing that's well within his capabilities, people like you always come out of the woodwork to explain how anything my character does isn't possible to do? Why not just let my dude carry the boulder and toss it out of the way, it's not like I'm doing this during combat or anything so what's the issue here?
>5
That's not what you said though, you just said "Why do you have to roll to hit an enemy?" which implies that I'm actively fighting something.

Either way, coup de grace already exists.

>>50510359
>Dislocate your shoulder
Well you wouldn't have failed if you just kicked the damn door

>>50527271
The guy who says the weakest strength character could lift it, given the right role play. Keep in mind you and I are both yelling at a theoretical scenrio that has no actual event or basis that we both acknowledge. Welcome to /v/ tier arguing.

>>50527276
>Focus
No, you focus. Stay on the ball. We are NOT discussing str 3 vs str 18.

>Why am I rolling for something that my character should be able to feasibly perform?
Why don't you read posts fully before responding?
Answer to both:
Sometimes you just fuck up.

>olympic athletes
Funny you bring them up. They have been brought up before. >>50514280
>Competition lifts are almost never as high as training weights, because many factors affect maximum capacity,

>Focus
>Guy tells you to stop getting sidetracked
>you tell him to focus
If that isn't irony I don't know what is.

>You keep trying to inject realism into a game where magic exists.
Is your character a wizard?

>anything my character does isn't possible to do?
What the fuck are you talking about? You don't just have an inferiority complex, you have a persecution complex as well.

>it's not like I'm doing this during combat or anything
So that means you can just try again. Do it properly this time. Don't cry over every little failure.

Rolls are there to decide for uncertain circumstances. If you don't like uncertain circumstances, prepare. Take 10. Or, if need be, take 20.

>>50527357
>1
Focus
>2
Answer the question
>3
Focus
>4
No, but my character is supposed to be a heroic figure that's not dissimilar to the likes of Conan, Arthur, Hercules, and Gilgemesh. Yet I'm rolling to lift something that's within my carrying capacity while the mage continues to jerk off onto every encounter without having to touch one die.
>5
You're basically telling me why my Barbarian with 18 STR is unable to lift up the boulder consistently enough to do so without rolling while excusing the wizard's bullshit just because his magic is less subtle than mine is.

The shit that a martial can do is stuff that the average peasant couldn't dream of doing on their own, yet somehow I'm on the same tier of relevancy because I don't preface every action I want to do with "I cast X?"

Give me a break.

>>50527414
>Focus
Focus.

>Answer the question
I did. Focus.

>Focus
Focus.

>my character is supposed to be a heroic figure
If you don't want to roll anymore, play freeform. If you want to roll and accept that sometimes bad results happen, don't whine about it.

>You're basically telling me why my Barbarian with 18 STR is unable to lift up the boulder consistently
No, I LITERALLY told you that.

>while excusing the wizard's bullshit just because his magic is less subtle than mine is.
Focus.

>The shit that a martial can do is stuff that the average peasant couldn't dream of doing on their own,
Correct. That won't change even if you have to roll a die every once in a while.

>somehow I'm on the same tier of relevancy because I don't preface every action I want to do with "I cast X?"
Inferiority complex again.
Focus.

>>50527450
>1,2,3
Stay on topic here chief
>4
By that logic, the only ones actually playing the game is the martials since mages will rarely have to roll for any of their spells.

Oh, but I guess that's okay so long as they're forcing everyone else to roll dice just to get fucking half as badly as they would've normally right?

I don't know man, you're just going all over the place with this so until you learn to generate an argument, I'm just going to take my leave.

Here's a (You) for the road though, you trolled me pretty good up to this point but now you're just being obvious with it.

>>50527147
Wrestling a dragon would be a grapple roll though, which is technically an attack roll, which means that a critical success would be relevant.

Bad DM detected!

>>50527414
>I'm rolling to lift something that's within my carrying capacity
Then you are either playing a shit system (if it's RAW) or you have a shit GM (if it's a house rule). Get rid of whichever one is shit. It's that simple. As said earlier in the thread, any decent system has a range where you don't even have to roll to lift something. You need to roll only if it's above that amount. This solves everyone's problems. Your "I should be just better at lifting with better stats!" and the other guy's "sometimes you have a bad day!"

File: 1468684336721.jpg (108KB, 540x562px) Image search: [Google]

108KB, 540x562px

>Character is supposed to be a big guy
>Try to crash plane with no survivors
>Sorry, dice say no
>cannot do big guy things despite being a big guy

Did I get fucking tricked?

File: 064.jpg (92KB, 846x846px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 846x846px

>>50528381
Planes are pretty big, I reckon there was at least a couple of other big guys there to cancel you out.