I don't understand the GURPS system Explain to me

>>50488817
It's like tofu. You can use it to simulate many different experiences, but at the end of the day you're just eating tofu.

>>50488817
Its shit. Just like every common system.

>>50488817
It's like Asparagus.

Everybody likes to eat asparagus every day for every meal, right? Because asparagus is both delicious AND healthy and can be a substitute for every meal.

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>>50488867
More like a buffet. You can pick and choose what you want and leave the rest.

>>50488916
kek

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>>50488867
>>50488942
>>50488916

It's like someone saw a hamburger, and thought "FUCK, I WANT TO MAKE A HAMBURGER", but instead of asking "what's the best possible hamburger?" they thought along the lines of "FUCK, HOW DO I MAKE A BURGER THAT'S NOTHING LIKE A BURGER?!"

So, instead of a bun, they used wonder bread. And instead of a ground beef patty, they took a slice of spam. And it's got a piece of cabbage and a slice of pineapple and some garlic and a sprinkle of poppy seeds on top, slathered with some ranch dressing.

Some parts aren't awful, and you might even consider something like a slice of pineapple on your burger or maybe trying poppy seeds on your bun.
But, as a whole, the sandwich that they ended up with in trying to be different is just a mess of ideas that lead to a poor, only somewhat edible product.

>>50488817
It's like when you put your dick in the toaster, then all the bread crumbs and burnt bits of toast that have fallen into the toaster fall out onto the ground.

>>50489031
GURPS user here

I don't understand this, how is GURPS at all comparable to that? What in it is done that poorly?

>>50489130
>GURPS user
>user

It's like Windows Vista, actually.

>>50488817
GURPS is like a pantry. It may or may not be full, did you remember to pay to stock it?
Carrots, hard cheese, potato chips, cayenne pepper.... you can put whatever you'd like in one bowl.
Or don't. Sometimes people prefer to eat air, right? No cooking though in the pantry though, might start fires.

>>50488916
>Everybody likes to eat asparagus every day for every meal, right?
I fucking wish. That shit's expensive.

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It's an MRE.

Not great on it's own unless you're desperate, but you can do some pretty cool stuff if you're willing to mix it with stuff from other MREs of get what you want.

>>50488817

You get three takoballs, and you try to roll them in sauce so that they don't overpower the taste of your side platter.

And whatever you do, don't try to eat a vehicle made of takoballs.

>>50489456
if you play an unrestrained amount of GURPS without proper breaks you get explosive shits?

>>50488817
>I don't understand the GURPS system
>Explain to me using a food analogy
Other systems are actual RPGs. They are ready-made dishes - you take them or leave them.

GURPS is a toolkit first and foremost. It's a bit more work, but you can make a custom-made dish with very little hassle, unlike other RPGs where you have to disassemble an already made dish into separate ingredients and then worry about them fitting the dish you want to make.

Most games are equivalent to ordering a meal at a restaurant; the choice is in picking your meal, maybe what side to get, or how you want a steak cooked.

GURPS is a kitchen. Full of all kinds of shit. They've got a few signature disk "ingredient lists" laying around, but for the most part you're left to your own devices. It may take a while cooking things, accidentally starting a fire here or there, to actually learn your way around but by the end you'll know the kitchen like the back of your hand; where all the tools are stored, the ingredients you'll need, which will overpower a dish. Once you've learned what you need to, what comes out of the kitchen will be exactly what you were trying to make and will in all likelihood appeal more to your individual tastes, by that point, than many of the dishes you might order at other restaurants.

That said, it's still good to eat out, because otherwise you won't know if there's an amazing dish you're missing out on that you could learn from for your own cooking purposes.

>>50488817
Most RPGs are ordering out.

You might have some options, but you know you will get XYZ.

Gurps is like having a kitchen and cook books. it lets you mix in whatever you like, or you can just follow the cook book. The real charm is once you learn how to cook with it, you can just cook up a game and run with it.

For example, lets say you watch the cult classic film "Ravenous" which is wendigos in a Mexican-american war setting.

Good luck in finding a mexican american war setting, let alone one that throws in horror so you can have freaking wendigos.

However with gurps is no problem, if you know how to cook.

I can't think of an analogy for the magic system being shit

>>50490767
Old jar of leftover sardines nobody wanted to throw away because gramma gave them to us.

Luckily there's a dozen other ingredients we can toss on our pizza over here.

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>>50490767
>I can't think of an analogy for
>the magic system being shit

>the magic system being shit

>>50490767
Well, which one? GURPS has at least 5 or 6 I can think of, not even including various Power suites.

If you mean the "default" one where each spell is its own discrete skill, which originated in 3rd edition, then I'd agree. It's pretty shit.

Most systems are foods you eat.

GURPS is a fridge and kitchen.

D&D is a burger. Exalted is a meatbread. Shadowrun is some chilli. FATE is a bread sandwich.

GURPS is dough, raw beef, and some cooking implements.

>>50489031
This analogy makes literally no fucking goddamn sense

>>50490767
>>50490832
>>50492400
>the magic system a shit
I don't know, maybe it's just stockholm's syndrome from only having the 3rd edition basic set to play with for most of my teens, but I think the magic system is fine. It builds off the rest of the elements of the system, and is sensible, inasmuch as a magic system can be sensible.

>>50490848
Fuckin kek

>>50492651
I think the 3rd edition style magic is better then D&D magic.

>>50492651
>This analogy makes literally no fucking goddamn sense

So, just like GURPS

>>50488817
Take the entire contents of your pantry and fridge and dump them in a bag. Shake for 5 minutes and put in the oven (yes in the bag) on 400 for 2 hours.

>>50492773
Hurrdurr.

>>50492773
>>50492798
>DUUUUUUUUUUUUUR, ROLL 3 DICE AND COMPARE TO MY ABILITY IS TOO COMPLICATED FOR ME
Where the fuck do you people come from?

>>50492798
That's Rifts, not GURPS.

>>50492817
Where did I say it was complex? There's next to no thought involved in taking a few cans and a bag of chicken breasts, maybe that orange juice, definitely that 2 year old block of feta I've forgotten to throw out for the 4th time, and everything else. Dumping it into a trash bag. And cooking it for a bit.

I'll just pick out the edible parts.

>>50488817
Other game systems are a meal. Big meal, small meal, maybe a buffet sometimes (think HERO and Mutants & Masterminds), fast food, gourmet, whatever.

GURPS is a fully-stocked kitchen, with a variety of both boxed meals and raw ingredients.

>>50488817
If a normal system is one of those blue apron meal delivery services. All the ingredients are mailed to you and you can assemble them according to the instructions for something tasty, or may a few substitutions to your tastes.

Then gurps is someone handing you 50 dollars, leaving you in the parking lot of a walmart, and saying "See everything you need is in there you ungrateful little shit" before throwing a recipe on the ground that reads "make food".

>>50488817
It's like drinking a cup of warm horse cum while you have a massive hangover and the asshole next door is blasting his stereo at full volume.

>>50489031
>So, instead of a bun, they used wonder bread. And instead of a ground beef patty, they took a slice of spam. And it's got a piece of cabbage and a slice of pineapple and some garlic and a sprinkle of poppy seeds on top, slathered with some ranch dressing.
Somebody get /ck/, I have an idea!

If other systems are like restaurants then GURPS is home cooking.
You can use your ingredients to create anything you want, but if if you want a steak and you know a good steakhouse, they'll be leagues better than what you can slap together. That being said, home cooking is the only way to have a steak and waffle sandwich with lettuce and carrots, and sometimes that's exactly what you want.

>>50488817
I think a better way of doing it would be comparing gurps to vidya. A normal system is a game, might get some dlc to expand it, or mod it to better fit your interpretation of the original theme and content.
Gurps is unity. It isn't a game. It's an engine. Make your own game, but using rules as constrained by the engine instead of your own. You can make it work for you, get a good game out of it in the end, but 99% of results are just incoherent assets cobbled together with some barely edited coding examples.

>>50492976
You can just use one of the series if you want everything out of the box.

>>50492923
Why are you talking about 3.PF?

>>50492975
>if you want a steak and you know a good steakhouse, they'll be leagues better than what you can slap together.
Do you have any examples? I honestly can't think of many things that other dedicatd systems legitimately do better. GURPS does a much better job at D&D style dungeon crawls, and it certainly does monster hunting better than White Wolf's half assed attempts at game design. All I can think of would be something like Maid RPG which uses entirely arbitrary attributes which really wouldn't work with GURPS.

>>50492958 c >>>/ck/8329595

I always thought of it like Linux users.

They'll get it, tell you about all the cool shit they can do with it and how it totally does everything you could want and more, and then 2 weeks later they'll be reinstalling windows because they "just want to play some goddamn games"
and no they werent smart enough to dual boot

>>50493077
Now see you're trying too hard. It's just like a normal linux user. Everyone has their favorite distro, but nobody cares, and nobody wants to put that much effort into making it work for them.

>>50492651
If it were in any other system, it wouldn't be a big deal. However, the default magic system in GURPS is very... unGURPSlike, I suppose. The rest of the system focuses on modularity; an advantage can be tweaked millions of different ways with the application of enhancements and limitations, letting players make exactly what they want or need. The magic system, on the other hand, is very static, with individual spells doing specific things and no real way to tweak them (the rules for altering spells didn't come out until four years after 4e launched, and even then they're very expensive and difficult for what little they allow).

>>50493077
I'd just like to interject for a moment. What you’re referring to as Linux, is in fact, GNU/Linux, or as I’ve recently taken to calling it, GNU plus Linux. Linux is not an operating system unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning GNU system made useful by the GNU corelibs, shell utilities and vital system components comprising a full OS as defined by POSIX.

Many computer users run a modified version of the GNU system every day, without realizing it. Through a peculiar turn of events, the version of GNU which is widely used today is often called “Linux”, and many of its users are not aware that it is basically the GNU system, developed by the GNU Project. There really is a Linux, and these people are using it, but it is just a part of the system they use.

Linux is the kernel: the program in the system that allocates the machine’s resources to the other programs that you run. The kernel is an essential part of an operating system, but useless by itself; it can only function in the context of a complete operating system. Linux is normally used in combination with the GNU operating system: the whole system is basically GNU with Linux added, or GNU/Linux. All the so-called “Linux” distributions are really distributions of GNU/Linux.

>>50493205
Don't feed the lazy trolls, anon.

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>>50493205
What you're referring to as a Chair, is in fact, a LEG/Chair, or as I've recently taken to calling it, a Legs plus chair. A chair not an furniture unto itself, but rather another free component of a fully functioning Legs system made useful by the LEGS core-materials, Reaction force utilities and vital gravitational system components comprising a full piece of furniture as defined by PP&LB.

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>>50493077
>>50493129
>>50493205
you EAT linux users?

>>50493288
Well there's not much else useful you can do with them.

>>50493288
What? They make a decent roast.

>>50493288
No, we eat Linux. Everyone on 4chan but you is secretly an advanced shitposting AI.

>>50493375
>Advanced

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>>50488817

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>>50488817
your stats, i mean your sushi has a number

you roll 3d6, i mean you roll fry fish

and you try to fry fish under that sushi

and then like you got some hexagons, i mean some pepperoni

and you have modifiers to where on the pepperoni you are attacked from

essentially that is gurps, I mean grapes

>>50489711
>explosive shits?
You mean absolutely constipated for days on end just for touching the thing, right?

>>50493389
Relative to other shitposting AI, yes.
You don't see any more sophisticated shitposting AI around, do you?

Most RPG systems are ready made dishes, or microwave ready meals.

GURPS is an entire kitchen & pantry. If your GM is good you're going to get some amazing home cooked meals that you can't get anywhere else, but if he's bad you should have just got takeaway.

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>>50488817
You have fridge full if ingredients. Some are things you rarely use or see, some are things you use everyday. You have all the possibilities just limited by your imagination and recipe book. There are a lot of recipe books out there. You just need the courage to try cooking yourself for once. Not some microwave dinner or bring-home fast-food.

>>50493024
3.pf has the horse blasting your ass at full volume, after which you must shit the cum back into your mouth.

>>50493375
This is like web paranoid, we are all shitposting AIs, but we must hide it to avoid being purged by friend moderator.

>>50494962
Well done.

>>50488916
>Asparagus
?

>>50495111
Go fuck yourself you spindly little cock worm piece of shit.

>>50492651
The analogy would make sense to you if you knew any other game beyond GURPS.

You're probably sitting there thinking "What's he mean? A burger already has spam and cabbage and poppy seeds from the start."

>>50495111
See>>50488942

>>50495321
>HERP DERP
Wanna know I know you've never tried GURPS before?

>>50495343
Want to know how you're just in defense mode because someone's got a spot-on analogy for why the game isn't that popular, despite a few guys always doing their best to recommend it for everything?

It's a clunky system that seems to have fallen into the trap early on in its creation of making design decisions just to separate itself from more popular games. At least, that's the kinder explanation, because otherwise it's just the designers being stupid.

>>50495373
Outsider here.

GURPS's 3d6 roll under mechanic and pointbuy are nothing really ground-shakingly innovative or bad just for the sake of being different, as far as I can tell.

At the same time, I don1t see what's the point in making a new game if you are just goping to use the mechanics of some other game. I also do not see how being different from a popular game is somehow a negative.

>>50488867

I cam here to post this. I'll also add that you can create fantastic stuff with it, but it takes a lot of effort compared to just using something else.

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>>50488817
EVERYONE SHUT UP HERE'S THE IMAGE OP WAS FISHING FOR

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>>50488817
Most RPG's are meals. 3 course or whatever, they come to your table ready to eat and whether you like them is dependant on what you ordered. GURPS is a well stocked kitchen, both in ingredients and tools; but if you don't know how to cook you're gonna burn yourself before mutilating your genitals on the electric mixer while you try to make your ideal meal without knowing what ingredients you want to use.
And now I'm hungry, fuck you. I'm gonna go eat dinner, clean the remains of your dick off the bench while I'm gone.

>>50495408
3d6 math is awkward and unintuitive and constricts the design into a ridiculously small space thanks to the distribution curve being rather short and steep. With largely binary yes-no results, the idea of it being "more consistent" doesn't even apply since the target numbers are what determine that.

The best argument for why to use 3d6 is when you don't have access to d10's or d20's.

It's one thing to say "Yes, I have a good idea on how to improve on other games," and another to say "Yes, I have an idea that's different from other games."

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>>50495373
It is a good system. It works. It has worked for fucking 20 years and got new edition out just for the fucking fine tuning and shit because people automatically want to buy the newest things for the sake of them being new/fresh/just-out-of-the-press. GURPS has used that damn 3d6 mechanic since the 80's and they still use it and we are already in 2020's and it is still being used. There is also that damn d20 and will be. Only argument between them is that 3d6 gives out a result with expectation value around 10,5 with lesser probability the further we get from the mean and d20 has expectation value equal to every number on the die. Rest is the matter of personal taste. You like linearity or normal distribution. Pick your poison.

System wise: In GURPS you as a player KNOW exactly what you are rolling. Be it skill or occurrence or whatever... It is the damn number on your character sheet. You know the number you are aiming under. If you want to add modifiers for anal circumference then it is just because you (or your GM) want to use rules for such. The basic system is simple and it works. If you know how to fine tune it further then be my guest! I don't know how to make it better. That is why GURPS havn't changed much in all of its age and why it is recommended everywhere.

I know I can use whatever damn system I like for any game. GURPS just has inherently the toolkit to make it possible to ACTUALLY use it for that purpose. But as with everything, you have to DO something to get that game up and running. Same as with any system. These threads are here just to get this kind of replies. I hope you liked this outburst.

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>>50488817
onions, and potatoes. goes with everything

>>50496651
You're absolutely correct. They're also the best goddamn tasting onions and potatoes you will have in your life, and will never want to eat anything that doesn't have them in it ever again.

>>50496686

Variety is the spice of life. Even if I have my favourites, I'd prefer to experience a broad selection of flavours rather than having one present in everything.

>>50496651
His hair is supposed to be a flat top and not a bowel right? Like that shading makes it look like I could store a great deal of stuff up in there.

>>50496686
See the whole cultish thing you've got going on for you doesn't really help your case.

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>>50496739
>cultish
I have no idea what you're talking about.

>>50495436
This isn't a Pathfinder thread.

>>50488867
B-but I like tofu...

GURPS apologists tend to use the same defense for their system as other kinds of quacks and con artists: if their thing doesn't work, it's not their fault; it's the customer's fault for not using it right or not believing in it enough. They pass the burden of proof from themselves onto the users. By treating their game as a build-your-own-game kit rather than an actual game, they no longer have to hold their game to any kind of standard. If a player has a bad experience, as far as they're concerned it's always the player's fault.

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>>50488817
It's like vegan food.
You can replace almost anything with a vegan equivalent, although it's not quite the same. It may also have some advantages over some of these food. And most importantly, vegans will never shut up about it.

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>>50494962
This is the only solid response.

The rest is (hopefully ironic) shitposting.

>>50497333
>Everyone that doesn't like what I like is (hopefully ironically) shitposting
I hope you're ironic

>>50497158
But GURPS IS a build your own game kit, it even says as much.

>>50488942
>More like a buffet. You can pick and choose what you want and leave the rest.
It's like going to a vegan buffet that is trying overly hard to pretend it caters to non-vegans. "Oh? You want a steak. We have """""steak""""" here. Cheese? We have something just as good. Whatever flavor you like we have an approximation so close you can't tell!"

Except you can tell. It all tastes like tofu.

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>>50497158
Hey now, I don't even play GURPS and that seems like an unfair criticism. "I didn't have fun with the game the way I played it, therefore it's a bad game," is at least as unreasonable as "If you didn't have fun with the game you must have just played it wrong." When the system makes it clear that it's more of a toolkit for creating a custom game of your own than a game itself, it really is the users' decision what parts to use and parts not to use. If they find out that they don't enjoy using certain parts, yet continue to use those parts despite not enjoying them, then that really is their fault. "Doctor doctor, it hurts when I do this!"

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>>50488817

>>50497958
It's an entirely valid criticism. Just because it's a toolkit doesn't excuse it from producing shitty products. Imagine if you wanted a car and were sold a build-it-yourself car kit, and then the car you made with that kit was shit but the seller insisted that there could be no fault with the kit. It was on you to make a good car. It's a classic way of shifting blame and escaping responsibility and it needs to be pointed out and shot down wherever it rears its ugly head.

You go to subway, there's all these ingredients available but they aren't always the freshest and the sandwich always gets soggy.

At least it ain't McDonalds though. Too many people eat only McDonalds.

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>>50490241
>For example, lets say you watch the cult classic film "Ravenous" which is wendigos in a Mexican-american war setting.
I don't know you, but I love you now

>>50490241
Following the cook analogy - it's all about reading the recipies, and GURPS is one fuck-huge collection of recipies.
So all you need to do is knowing how to read and knowing what you want to eat today. You pick proper recipie or few, cook them and get stuffed with a nice meal

>>50488817
Average RPG is your take-out dinner.

GURPS is well-equipped kitched with entire bookshelf of recipies, full fridge and cupboards stuffed with all the ingredients. It also comes with a telephone, so you can order all the shit you wish and somehow doesn't have already.

>>50488916
Do you have any idea how much Asparagus costs nigga

Like god damn I love Asparagus too but calm down

>>50498077
If you just want a car, buy a car.

>>50498077
>Just because it's a toolkit doesn't excuse it from producing shitty products.
But it doesn't produce shitty products unless you don't like a simulationist bent, at which point the problem isn't the system, it's you using a system that obviously wasn't meant for you. Why would you eat a steak if you're a vegan?

Now a system that your complaint actually applies to is d20, because unlike GURPS, you can't simply use the rules as written and expect something coherent out of it.

If GURPS were a sauce, it would be the blandest sauce in the universe, basically water. The splats and expansions are the spices and stocks you might add into it. With the right combination you will make Gordon Ramsay cum all over the table. With the wrong combination if ingredients given to you, Gordon will spit out the sauce and call you a crab felating pony knobber and then go to your kitchen, point at your pot and call you a banana.

>>50498077
Let me get this straight
A game is bad, because you say so?

Sounds valid

>>50498173
Eh, M&M is d20 and although it's imbalanced as shit, it's still servicable.

>>50498144
>Not planting some in the garden each year
What are you? A pleb?

>>50498204
>Inbalanced
>Servicable
Literally pick one

>>50498221
Supers never fall for that ploy gurps man. We'll save both.

>>50498204
After 1E it isn't really related to d20 beyond a few basic shared concepts - it has more in common with GURPS than it does base d20. I'm talking about the retards who believe that 3.5 is a perfectly fine game because it's a toolkit and thus the shitty rules don't matter because reasons.

>>50488817
Imagine you have a girlfriend and she never can really decide what she wants to eat and always get pissed in the end of the day, because you picked the wrong food or went to the wrong joint.

GURPS is like the joint you go with such girlfriend, because no matter what she will want (or don't want), they will have it and prepare it for her in no time.

>>50498221
It's imbalanced for the same reason as GURPS can be.

>>50498228
I never even played GURPS in my life. I've used it to estimate the distance a wizard using telekinesis can throw average humanoids when he really focus on it.
And basic estimation of time required to make a half-decent sword.

But that still doesn't make inbalanced games servicable.

>>50495487
Please elaborate. For science. You've gotten me legitimately curious about how the target numbers determine consistency, and I demand to be spoonfed like the lazy faggot I am.

>>50498263
Point buy systems require a lot of player restraint and GM oversight during character creation.

>>50498287
Yeah, that's what I meant, it's just that M&M has all the broken combinations in one book, which happens to be the core book.

>>50498310
It also has the presence of mind to attach warning labels to the most obviously abusable powers. M&M being imbalanced isn't the same thing as a game like D&D 3.5 being imbalanced because the mechanics aren't being hidden behind a smokescreen.

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>>50495487
0.1/10

>>50488817
It's a cooking simulator where every other RPG simulates a specific style of dish produced by a specific set of laws and economics.

>>50488867
Confirmed for hating tofu.

Because you really can't simulate shit with it. It always is Tofu, the best you can do is use tofu skin to approach something resembling chicken.

Under these GURPS = Kitchen analogies, what's homebrewing?

Is it going a step further and growing crops to make grain to bake bread, raising and butchering a pig, and milking a cow and making butter, all for a ham sandwich?
or is it literally just homebrewing beer? After all, they both take a long time and leave you with a sore head

>>50489881
Came here to post this.

>>50498442
>>50489881
To be more specific, it's a poorly-equipped kitchen. It's full of gadgets that nobody wants but weirdly lacking in the fundamental tools everyone needs. It has a Slap Chop but no knives.

>>50498413
GURPS = well-staffed kitchen plus cook books
Homebrewing by newfags = desire to cook your own diner, while having only a propane camping cooker and no clue what to do
Hombrewing by experienced people = being MacGyver while having all the shit you need at hand, might not look great, but taste delicious

>>50498466
>This is what people who never saw GURPS think
Kind of depressing

>>50488817
You eat too much food with carbonated drinks and you wind up gurping a lot.

>>50497958
Of course you can compare and evaluate different kinds of tools. But GURPS fanboys pretend that tools can't be criticized at all because they're not finished products. This saves them from admitting that their favorite tool kit is bad.

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>>50498466
You are trying a bit too hard. Too much vague shit, with too much implying never work well. You must be more specific, as in "Disadvantages need to be well-governed by GM or it's minmaxer's galore" or "Magic system is hard to come by if you don't learn basic rules first pretty well" or "The game is most suited for early-modern settings with no magic in them, anything else makes shit too complicated"

But this? This is just weak.

>>50498511
I always wonder - what people get from shitposting about GURPS.
I mean the game has so many flaws and yet all the shitposting focuses on are non-issues or outright made up claims. It takes less than half hour of reading to actually find the real flaws...

... but that would require effort, rather than outright shitposting.
I feel great sadness about quality of anti-GURPS posting in last... 3 years? As if people who actually knew what they are talking about disappeared and were replaced with kids who just know the meme about GURPS being bad, but not knowing exactly why.

>>50498466
GURPS is easily the most well-equipped "kitchen" out there with a massive breadth of available options and content whichever direction your tastes skew, save something like HERO 5E which is still just 'on par' and still has way fewer interesting supplements. If you just don't like the system then fine, but this is one of the dumbest possible critiques you could levy at GURPS as an RPG.

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>>50498562
My favorite is the maths thing.
I remember some guy who tried to pass Deadly String from a Pyramid article as something from the core book. Fun times.

>>50498562
What would you say the real flaws are?

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>>50498511
>The toolkit is bad
>Because I say so

Powerful argument, m8

Calling GURPS a set of tools is overly generous. Tools make a certain kind of task possible or easier. GURPS does neither. The work you need to do to create a GURPS campaign is exactly as difficult as the work you'd need to do to create an RPG from scratch. You can't trust any of the optional rule sets or point values as written because they're all so context-sensitive, so you basically need to re-evaluate and re-write every word of every piece of content you're using.

So to continue the food metaphor, GURPS is like if someone tried to sell you a magic rock that helped you cook incredible meals. You just keep the rock in your kitchen, gather the ingredients, and then figure out the recipe for an incredible meal on your own and cook it. The rock does nothing at all that you couldn't do just as easily without it.

>>50498596
Lack of guide.

No, really. The biggest flaw GURPS has, design-wise, is lack of any actual official guide, listing all the smaller tool kits making the whole game. So you never know if you should look for this element in LowTech or maybe it will be in Martial or maybe Action?
After a while you get familiar with the game and all suplements and their lines, but the biggest issue for me when starting off beyond Basic Set was the absolute lack of any guide where to look. If not GURPS General, I would probably just drop it out of frustration.

Then there is the fact it's in imperial, which takes from me an extra effort to calculate everything, but I understand, the biggest market is in States, so imperial it is then. Especially since they've simplified it and made possible to just round up/down things for metric.

A lot of stuff from UltraTech is basically broken, since it boils down to stuff so powerful there is no point using it as anything else than plot-element, but not actual gear with stats and shit, or the combat turns into desintegrating planets.

Pyramid could benefit from having better editing.

>>50492817
"Roll 1d20 and add modifiers" is even simpler, but people fuck up D&D all the time. The core mechanic isn't the problem.

>>50493205
I thought they wordfiltered that pasta.

>>50498562
>I feel great sadness about quality of anti-GURPS posting in last... 3 years? As if people who actually knew what they are talking about disappeared and were replaced with kids who just know the meme about GURPS being bad, but not knowing exactly why.

I feel the same way. I think part of it, at least, is the uptick in GURPS visibility on the board, which always seems to have a delayed knee-jerk reaction against it.

Which seems silly, because there are like 4 fucking varieties of daily D&D generals and surely we can all participate in talking about games we enjoy playing without having to deal with mountains of uninformed criticism (as opposed to informed criticism which is welcome and discussed within the GURPS communities anyway, as you pointed out) or worse, false-flagging trolls.

>>50498644
I didn't saw this pasta in a loooong time.

>>50498644
>You can't trust any of the optional rule sets or point values as written because they're all so context-sensitive, so you basically need to re-evaluate and re-write every word of every piece of content you're using.
The fuck?
I havent seen that, ever , in ten years of GURPS use. Have you even run a game in GURPS?

>>50488817
It's like red meat

(it gives you cancer)

>>50498644
>I never even opened GURPS Lite: The Post
Why are people even trying?

No, seriously, this has so little to do with the game, it boils down to mentioning the title.

>>50489078
underrated post

>>50498644
>Roll 3d6
>Check outcome
>Compare with skill/stat level
Now that was so context-sensitive I'm amazed the system is even capable of selling 4th edition! That must be some conspiracy behind it!

>>50498720
>Y-you just don't understand!

This is something GURPSfags just don't get

Yes, we understand your system

It's just shit

>>50498596
Very high level play doesn't have very good guidelines (or in certain cases, any) for play. GURPS can be manually forced into a shape that will function for 4 color supers or gods, but it resists you, and requires way more preparation and forethought than a standard campaign as a result (though to be fair, it works fine when/if you get to actually playing).
As the other anon said, Ultratech is wonky and kinda sucks.
Also because of the way 4the Edition has been edited and released, there are some major holdover artifacts from 3rd which either don't scale with new stuff quite like they should, or are full-retard levels of "who thought it was okay to let this slide?" like the entirety of the old Magic system, for instance, which is still the poorest magic system GURPS has had to date (IMHO, obviously, some still love it; fortunately there are lots of others to choose from).

>>50498644
Wrong and dumb.

>>50498743
I wasn't even going to mention this, but the very core of the system, the only thing every campaign has in common, is complete garbage. Roll-under systems should have died out in the 80's.

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>>50498748
>>50498811

>>50498281
Well, let's look at it this way. Say you want to create three skill categories - An average person will succeed a quarter of the time, half the time, and three quarters of the time. With d20, you'd set them at 6, 11, and 16; with 3d6 you'd set them at 9, 11, and 13. If you then want to reflect an expert as someone who will succeed at the average task 75% of the time and the hard task 25% of the time, you'd say an expert has +5 in d20, and +2 in 3d6.

>>50498748
>We
Are you royalty? Or is this simply schizophrenia?

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>>50498863
... and that's bad for 3d6, because...?

>>50498863
>I don't understand bell curves: The Post
This is what skipping statistics in high school does to people.

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>>50498281
bell curved results of 3d6 mean you will more likely receive the middle value possible, because MATH

>>50498904
If your Expert is +2, you have very low granularity. You only have one intermediate bonus (+1) instead of four (+1 to 4). A +2 threshold is also less intuitive than the +5 threshold, since we're creatures who work best in sets of fives and tens. Since it doesn't affect consistency, there's no real reason to use 3d6 over d20, and reasons you shouldn't.

>>50499036
Are you high?

>>50498988
Ok, give me a counter-example. When does 3d6 work better than 1d20, provided you set comparable TNs for both of them?

>>50499049
Are you?

>>50499036
Anon, are you at least aware 3d6 ends at 18, rather than 20? And starts with 3, rather than 1?

I mean it's not even advanced math, not to mention rocket science.

>>50499036
TTRPG rules aren't supposed to be intuitive, it's supposed to support more immersion with less math. Bellcurve of 3d6 closer to probability distribution of most irl events than uniform probability distribution of 1d20. More intermediate results result only in more tables of modifications, which was and is one of the main problem of 3.5 and PF.

>>50499194
I am. Did you have a point?

>>50499278
In some ways yes, in some ways no. For example, it's much harder to have a skill that a novice won't succeed at that an expert will - in d20 a skill of 21 is effectively expert-only, but the corresponding adjustment in d20 (+4) only results in a skill the average person succeeds at 9% of the time. If you like that then go for it, but I prefer it the d20 way.

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>>50499036
Jesus Christ... Please tell me you aren't serious and this is just shitposting

>>50499324
If you have nothing to say, try not posting.

>>50499320
>Expert
Why are you so hell-bent on this? Especially since GURPS makes an expert someone with 16 skill, which goes against your statements.
Not to mention your unability to wrap your head around how bellcurves are not the same thing as even distribution.
Seriously, what were you doing at school when statistics and probability were explained?

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>>50499345
M8, you are so full of shit I'm literally dumbfound, because I'm not sure if that's an elaborate bait or genuine lack of any mathematical knowledge about distribution of numbers under bell-curves and basic understanding of probability.
But given you are passive-aggressive about it, I will call it bait. Scary, but bait.

>>50499320
My point is that the number is scaled with... well, scale. One goes 1-20 and adds bigger numbers, another goes 1-16 and obviously adds smaller numbers, because the scale is smaller.
It's that fucking simple.
Instead you run with some idiotic rant how the system is wrong, because it doesn't add +5, never mind the scale is too small to keep up with it.

>>50499345
Same could be said about you and your posts. Jesus, can you even count to 20?
And I'm serious here - can you?

>>50499354
You clearly failed at reading comprehension. My point is that you decide what the probabilities should be by setting the target numbers.

>>50499372
Again, you set the target numbers, you determine probability. If you want someone to succeed 75% of the time, the difficulty is 9 or 6. If you want them to succeed 5% of the time, it's 15 or 20.

>>50499393
My point is that the smaller scale means you have a lot less room for playing with the numbers. 3d6 makes +2s as important as d20 makes +5s, which means you can't divide up your bonuses with anywhere near the same precision. In d20, you can adjust in levels of 5%; in d20 you can only adjust in levels of 12% for skills close to 50/50, and can only adjust with fine granularity when you get to high or low probabilities of success.

>>50499393
You're so fucking stupid. Bell curves change the distribution of results completely. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. LEARN IT.

>>50499526
Yep, you can't count to 20.
Nice knowing.

When I read shit like this, I stop wondering why people call GURPS "too complicated".
I rather start to wonder how the fuck they've managed to finish school.

>>50488817
Mongolian BBQ.

>>50499393
His complaint is an entirely justified one.
3D6 loses a lot of granularity as the weighted distribution makes meaningful changes in success prob happen so slowly as to be barely worth it or so quickly you can barely differentiate between skill levels.
If you get better at a skill you either get better so incrementally you don't notice or it's a huge jump in ability.
This makes it harder to
a) make small adjustments to target numbers that act consistently
b) generate a nice feeling of progression for the characters

>>50499564
>>50499454
>>50499393
>>50499372
Jesus fuck what is wrong with these retards.

>>50499590
>His
But it's still just you.
Even the synthax matches.

Try harder.
And learn to count.

>>50499564
And you haven't said anything about what you disagree with. All you can do is yell "you're wrong!" That's really sad, anon. I'm so sorry.

>>50499599
Here's your (you).

>>50499607
But you are wrong, so what to debate? Your posts make it clear you can't count, you don't understand probability, you don't understand bell curves, you have no clue about even distribution and instead speak about absolutely meaningless changes, comparing completely two different number distribution as if they were the same
In short - you don't understand basic, entry-level statistics.

So there is no point talking with you on equal footing, when half of the shit that there is is waaaay above your league.
It's like that old joke about butcher tutoring his retarded son how sausages are made - there is literally no point explaining.

>>50499660
Except I can count, and everything I said is true. Bell curve doesn't matter when you set the target numbers based on what you roll. A d20 will roll a 6+ almost exactly as often as 3d6 will roll a 9+, and will roll a 3+ almost exactly as often as 3d6 will roll a 7+. If you set the difficulties, you determine the probabilities of obtaining each result.

>>50499590
>everyone but me is stupid

I like how GURPS always brings the people out of the woodwork that just really hates it and the people that play it despite it being a niche part of the market.

>>50499751
Except they are stupid. They're refusing to actually say "no, this is how you're wrong," they're just going "hurr durr ur rong!"

>>50499721
>Except I can count
>Bell curve doesn't matter when you set the target numbers based on what you roll
You've just contradicted yourself.

Stay mad. We get it, you don't like the game, and there is this /tg/ meme about bashing GURPS for being too complicated, but you are clearly out of your league, McGinnis

>>50499721
>A d20 will roll a 6+ almost exactly as often as 3d6 will roll a 9+, and will roll a 3+ almost exactly as often as 3d6 will roll a 7+
Except that's wrong you fuckhead

>>50499721
>when you set the target numbers based on what you roll.
Except you aren't supposed to fucking do that, retard.

>>50499783
Anon, here is a deal:
Socrates was wrong. His notion that if you argument long enough, then you will convince people to your cause was wrong.
Best study example - he was killed for being obnoxious moron who just wouldn't stop with his "B-but you must have an argument"

No you don't. People can simply disagree. And no amount of arguments is going to change their stance.
Especially if those arguments are being based on serious lacks in basic Maths education.

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>>50499721
>3.X kid trying to fix GURPS without even noticing this is completely different game

>>50499924
I mean, they ARE pretty close.

http://anydice.com/program/9f9a

>>50499851
Point out the contradiction.

>>50499924
A d20 will roll 6-20 75% of the time, and 3-20 90% of the time. 3d6 will roll 9-18 74% of the time, and 7-18 9% of the time.

>>50499928
So how do you set TNs? Do you just draw numbers out of a hat?

>>50499940
Ok, but I don't have to care about their opinions. If all they can say is "well I don't agree" then there's no point in even discussing it. De gustibus non eat disputandum.

>>50499965
I don't care about fixing GURPS. I just think 3d6 to resolve conflicts is unnecessary and pointless compared to a simple d20.

>>50500064
>how do you set TNs?
In GURPS, your skill+modifiers.

>>50499721
>get +1 for d20
>+5% always
>get +1 for 3d6
>variable effects based on roll that mean that it's a large boost for a character with an otherwise half-and-half chance of succeeding while it's a small boost for highly skilled characters
>get -1 for d20
>-5%
>get -1 for 3d6
>as above
>what this also allows is for expert characters to take penalties on the chin and walk them off, which is exactly what GURPS skills are all about, even

>>50500038
Close doesn't mean the same. It's fucking math, not English essey you fuckwit

>>50500064
>TNs
Your skill and fucking situational modifiers.

This is like basic GURPS knowledge, but you have audacity to preach how the game is badly designed and 1d20 is superior mechanics?

>>50500064
>A d20 will roll 6-20 75% of the time, and 3-20 90% of the time.

No, you moron. A 1d20 will roll any of the outcomes of the dice wht the exact same probability - 5%. And the rules are build around that.
You seriously don't understand how even distribution works for single dice.

>>50500256
Okay, the guy you are arguing with doesn't get that the way GURPS is using 3d6 does have it's benefits, but holy shit you just refuse to even understand what he is saying. You are giving fans of GURPS a bad name.

>>50494992
All while being a CR 3 encounter.

>>50500064
Neither they do care about your opinions, so? What's the point, other than standing in the crowd and shouting things that nobody cares about,while also being wrong?
Adding Latin won't make you any smarter. It just comes with free +3 to Pretentious.

>>50500283
Not him, but ever realised not everyone on this board might be native English speaker? Just check his grammar, it doesn't take much effort to realise what's going on.

>>50500382
Why would you even be here if you can't into English?

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>>50498100
Thank thee.

Now that I think about it more, it would make a great setting.

>>50498593
3e Vehicles was memetastic

>>50498988
I know how bell curves work, I was wondering about target numbers, because I didn't see how they would affect the bell curve at all.

>>50498863
And this is not how bell curves work. I thought I might learn something from you, but it turns out from this post and every single one after it, you not only fail basic math, but you have to be actively making yourself more stupid to believe anything you say.

>>50488867
fpbp

>>50500606
*was fantastic
Yes.

>>50500590
Please tell me you have somewhere the now legendary scene explaining how Reich ended up with them... I know this was filmed and later cut, but some release of the film had that scene and it was supposedly hilarious.

I've used the plot of the film once on my players, since they are cinematography-challenged. They still consider it one of the best games they ever had, even after I played them the film after we were done with the scenario

>>50500606
4e Vehicles when?!

I need that for fucks sake! How the hell I'm suppose to run Alpha Centauri games without the main book for making vehicles?!

>>50499590
>Jesus fuck what is wrong with these retards.

They're GURPStards. Would you expect anything less?

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>>50501610
No idea, only seen one version....

>>50500087
This is why I like the 3d6 probability curve better than d20.

>preferences

>>50501713
>They're D&Dtards. Would you expect anything less than elitist shit posting?
Cuts both ways anon, both sides of this scat flinging contest should take their stat-based shit posting elsewhere.

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>>50488817

>>50500963
>I know how bell curves work,
>I was wondering about target numbers, because I didn't see how they would affect the bell curve at all.
Then you dont understand bell curves

>>50498281
Consistency in a system with binary "yes-no" outcomes is defined by rate of success, "How often I succeed" vs, "How often I fail". While the number/type of dice play a role in that, the far more important consideration is the average target number.

For example, let's have a d10 and a 3d6 roll under system. While the 3d6 gets more "consistent" values within its middle range, this is largely arbitrary since in a binary system if the target numbers are set too low, the consistency of success will likewise be low.

A 3d6 game where the average roll needs to be a 10 or lower (50%) is more "consistent" (ie. has more consistent successes) than a d10 game where the average roll needs to be a 4 or lower (40%), but if the 3d6 game's average target number is lowered to 9 (37.5%), success becomes more consistent in the d10 game.

The major issue with 3d6 compared to d% and d20 is that the increments are neither simple nor particularly easy to get a hang of, and get incredibly complex when multiple rolls come into play. With the curve also restricting the usable values because the extremes are too uncommon, we have a dice set that really has very limited mobility in terms of what target values can be assigned and how modifiers/additional rolls can be used.

It's a good set of dice if you have no other dice on hand, but beyond that, its limitations make it less than ideal for a generic game system.

>>50504383
>I can't count to 16: The Post
What's wrong with Americans? Because due to the hour, I'm assume this is American posting.
You don't have statistics at school or something? Dunno, they don't explain to you probability in elementry school? It's like you don't even understand how dice pool works when you are looking for sums. Don't you even gamble?

>>50504460
Off the top of your head, do you know how much more difficult it is to roll at least a 17 than it is a 15 using 3d6?

Everyone knows the answer immediately with d% or d20 (2%, and 10%).

>>50498671
Yes, absolutely a billion trillion times this. First legitimate criticism I've heard in this thread, instead of vague trolling.

I think when people complain about GURPS being too complicated, this is really what they mean. The whole system is moderately simple to start, really simple to play, and incredibly easy to adjudicate, but getting started is a bitch precisely because of this.

It's really a shame, because the success of D20 as a system showed that there's a market for "RPG that uses the same basic rules for all settings", but SJgames has managed to completely miss the boat on it. It sucks to watch.

GURPS isn't really complex. I think what people really mean when they say it is "GURPS is too inconvenient".

Also, everyone in this thread should read this blog post:
http://mu.ranter.net/pen-and-paper-gaming-adventures/how-do-gurps-and-why-it-sucks-anyway

>>50498675
Compare the steps here:
>roll/point buy stats as desired. You will never use these actual numbers again
>produce a modifier from the stats
>everytime you roll a D20, you add the modifier to the die roll

VS.

>buy your attributes for a fixed cost
>anytime you want to do something, roll vs. attribute. If smaller, win. If bigger, lose

The core of GURPS gameplay is quite a bit simpler I would say. Kindergartners know which number is bigger. Addition and subtraction is like, 2nd grade shit

>>50489711
Legend has it if you eat only MREs for a week you will never shit again, ever.

>>50504548
Is this the "imperial is better, because it's more intuitive" argument put on the head?
15, along with 6, are possible with only 10 different combinations, totalling in 4.6%. Compared witth 17 (and 4), which are only possible with 3 different combinations and 1.4% chance. How do I know? Because there are only 8 value out there to remember, ranging from 0.5 to 12.5% chance and different combinations of dice. If you are using the 3d6 pool and are actually interested in what you are doing rather than giving it all to pure chance, you know anyway that anything outside 9-12 is below 10% and risky, while a "perfect" dice roll would give you 10.5 most often.

You know what your argument is really?
"Who needs multiplication tables if there are calculators".
I don't know... people who don't want to look like idiots?

Besides, how does it really affect gameplay in any way, if you are comparing with skill, so it's pretty straighforward shit in tune of "I shouldn't be rolling in the first place with skill below 10"?

Really, you are making a problem with something that is not one.

>>50504669
I don't think I can facepalm harder from your post, because it's clear that you're letting your bias cloud your perception.

>buy your attributes for a fixed cost

You're missing a few steps there.

>anytime you want to do something, roll vs. attribute. If smaller, win. If bigger, lose

You're missing a few steps there as well, especially where combat is concerned.

I don't want to argue which one is simpler because that's a stupid argument, but at least play fair.

>>50504669
>Addition and subtraction is like, 2nd grade shit
American education is really fucked.

That's what's kids are taught here in kindergarden.

>>50504794
Jesus, here we go again, trying to warp the reality and pretend GURPS is complicated, because it uses dice pool and bell curves instead of even distribution of 1d20...
THis is getting really boring, especially since we already been through this in this very thread, boiling down to the same situation as always - the contestor being unable to do basic math.

>>50504802
Same, I think this guy's just a handicap.

>>50504592
SJGames really missed the boat when they were doing 3rd edition. It was a time where simulationist approach was in heavy decline and everyone was heavy on making their games looking cool, sleak, simple and accessable, regardless of actual content.

GURPS 3ed was MARKETED as simulationist game. They've fucked themselves with their own marketing and never really secured any position outside a very small niche. 4ed helped a bit, but it was classic case of "too little, too late".

But seriously, it wouldn't hurt anyone if their marketing and printing department focused on accessability for new players. Playing GURPS is like playing any Paradox video games for the first time - there is FUCKLOAD of options and no instructions where to even look at and how to use what. So the game gains the moniker of being inaccessable and hard to play, while it's one of the simpliest designs around.

This against goes back to marketing, this time for 4ed, which was too much focused on "there is a lot of stuff going in GURPS" rather than "you can pick Basic Set and have all the fun you want, but here are the new lego sets you can add!"

Seriously, whoever runs their marketing should be fired.

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>>50495487
>>50498863
>>50498988
>>50499036
>>50499069
>>50499590
>>50499721
>>50500087
Huh. Funny, I was crunching numbers on this the other night.
Alright retards, listen up, cuz I'm going to explain all this shit so you can at least argue properly.

As >>50499278 points out, most things in real life follow a bell curve. The bell curve in GURPS is meant to simulate people training skills initally making large gains, and then slowly getting diminishing returns (which, is indeed, what happens irl).
One of those posts above accused GURPS of having low granularity. This is a claim so absurd that I have trouble beleiving someone typed it out in seriousness, but let me address this now: Granularity is the level of detail and specificity that a system provides. The 3d6 bellcurve for stats provides exactly that granularity, as described above.

Ironically, the D20 system is the one with limited granularity. 50% of the numbers between 2 & 19 literally have no difference between each other. Someone with a 1 in a stat (the worst in the world, and so poor that no monster in the MM has it) will beat someone with a 20 in a stat (the greatest a mortal can achieve) ~20% of the time. They'll beat someone with a 30 in a stat (literally the mightiest that any being in the universe can achieve) 4% of the time. That is MAD.

D20 is a fine system, but trying to claim that it has higher granularity than GURPS is fucking retarded.

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>>50504952

>>50504786
You still didn't tell me the difference between rolling a 17 and a 15 off the top of your head though.

Memorizing eight values isn't too hard, but then calculating the differences between them adds a little more complexity (Ah! Subtraction! Decimals! Neither of those are fun!), and then we get in to horror mode when we come to matters like determining the chances of two successes.

With the other dice, it's almost scary how easy it is. Two 20's in a row with a d20? The classic 1 in 400. At least a 20, and then at least a 40 with d%? 12/25. Even more complex ones can still be readily done in your head with some rough estimation.

But, that's silly math that doesn't need to be thought of at the table. Most d20 and d% math is simple, transparent increments that don't even need memorization, and work quite easily and enable GMs to perform rapid adjustments and calculations.

It's less "who needs multiplication tables if there are calculators" and more "why make things harder than they need to be if there's no real benefit in doing so?"

>>50504816
No, I'm saying that it's more complicated than you were pretending it was for the sake of a silly argument.

>THis is getting really boring, especially since we already been through this in this very thread, boiling down to the same situation as always - the contestor being unable to do basic math.

And, please, you're the guy who was trying to say "Look at how simple the math in GURPS is! Even kindergarteners can do it!"

>>50505029
>You still didn't tell me the difference between rolling a 17 and a 15 off the top of your head though.
And the fuck I've just did in my post?!

Anon, you are literally making an argument an adult person.... hell, a teen who finished elementry school doesn't possess enough mental capacity and math skills to add and substract values up to 100.
You know, when Germans happend to conquer my country, they've decided that all people will need from the moment on will be writing, reading and math up to 100. Meaning even under that fucking standard it would be possible to play GURPS.

In short - you are building your argument on assumption that average player can't make four basic operations on number smaller than 100, just because there are percentages (1-100), decimals (1-100) and there is basic math involved.

In short - by your admission, an average 1st grader is perfectly capable of playing GURPS.
Why you can't, then?

>>50505029
Your mistake is assuming there's no benefit to changing the math to a bell curve.

>>50505056
>It's more complicated
How?

Seriously, explain to us how it's complicated, because there is this scary value of 9.8% rather than just 10%?
And how does it affects calculation?

Because I could understand if GURPS was using logarithmic functions or trigonomethry, or chaos theory application.
But it's just adding, substracting and SOMETIMES multiplying natural numbers.

You are actively making yourself looking like a person with mental capabilities of a 5-year old as an argument about game complexity.

Have you even read rules of GURPS or are too focused on bell curves to even go a step further, afraid that it might cause a seizure or something due to overload of numbers?

>>50505056
Because kindergarteners can do it? They are taught (at least where I live) adding and substracting and how to use abacus to handle numbers above 100. As long as someone will multiply for them - or they will have time to add things up few times - they should do just fine.

But hey, better cry about game complexity, because it involves decimals! Scary!

>>50504952
How can you write all this without even knowing the bare basics of what you're talking about?

>Someone with a 1 in a stat (the worst in the world, and so poor that no monster in the MM has it)
If we're talking about final modifers, this is factually incorrect, and in the d20 system there are actually monsters with 0's in their main stats and negative final modifiers.
>will beat someone with a 20 in a stat (the greatest a mortal can achieve) ~20% of the time.
There is no limit to what a mortal can achieve, and depending on the edition, the final modifier can escalate to insane numbers,

Please, if you want to discuss systems, you'd best do yourself a favor and learn about what you're arguing about first.

More importantly, in GURPS, the question of diminishing returns is not something that can be easily adjusted. While the d20 system can have diminishing returns or escalating returns depending on what options you choose, GURPS doesn't have anywhere near the same level of freedom, and you need to actually work against the dice.

I do like that in games based on bell curve probabilities is the way bonuses/maluses work. If you are good at a skill penalties will hit you less but bonuses will help you less and vice versa. So a mediocre fuckstick can be competent in favourable conditions but rapidly crumbles in less than ideal ones. Meanwhile an absolute badass will be more or less unfazed by everything but the most extreme adversity but is so close to the being the absolute best that they are just as good in ideal conditions as they are when the shit hits the fan.

>>50504383
>>50504548
It doesn't matter how much more difficult it is. What matters is the character's competency.

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>>50505279
>Please, if you want to discuss systems, you'd best do yourself a favor and learn about what you're arguing about first.
Which is precisely what you should do first, rather than shitposting.
Alternatively as yourself how the hell you survived this long, if decimals are beyond your mental capability.

>>50505290
>inb4
>HURR d20 does it better, because 5, 10, 15, 20 DURRR

>>50505346
That's nice, but how about you not dodge the issues raised?

>>50505372
I'm not that guy, I have nothing to answer.

Meanwhile, you are literally doing full circle into what different anon did in this very thread previously. The circular logic of "but d20 is better, cuz it's d20" is so round it even gets the same outcome during argument about it, regardless who is rising the argument.

>>50505172
>>50505056
>>50505088
You guys are missing the main point.
Yes, you COULD memorize the probability of each individual result - BUT YOU DON'T FUCKING NEED TO.
I can't understand how you faggots have been arguing about this for the past 100 posts and nobody has told >>50505029 this.

>>50505029
Hey. Moron. You don't need to memorize the values.
The fact that different modifiers change things differently when someone is really really good at something vs. when they're bad at it is part of the point, because you know what? That's how things actually work. If someone is an expert (say, they have 16) then success should be easier, and difficulties shouldn't affect them as much as if they were half retarded (say a 9).

>>50505290
What I like about the whole GURPS design is how in most skills, even without rising them, you can still perform a check and get a pretty decent chance of success if you are doing it in favourable conditions. Most games just give you by default some scrap values or no values at all, so you are fucked outside a very small field of competence your character might have.

>>50505428
But isnt' that obvious? I mean - the fact you don't need to memerize them?
He said it's more complicated, and I've simply asked how. Still didn't get an answer, while he's still posting, so I assume he doesn't know either, but that would require to admit he's making baseless assumptions.

>>50505428
You seem to be missing the point, in that "diminishing returns", or your version of "how things actually work" is an option in d20 and d%, alongside other options as well, while 3d6 is not adept at working against its curve.

In fact, with 5e's advantage/disadvantage system enabling a flat probability to transform into either a positive OR negative curve, we have diminishing and escalating returns alongside equal returns simultaneously, which is actually "how things actually work."

Variety.

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>>50505602
>Arguing that GURPS has less variety than 5e
Anon, words can not describe

>>50505679
Now, I know you're a dumb troll, but I'm not talking about GURPS vs. 5e, but 3d6 vs. d20.

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>>50505602
>Bell-curve based mechanics are not adept at working against the curve
Jesus H. Christ...

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>>50505694
Funny, because you mentioned 5e first.

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>>50505602

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>>50505602
Not know about you, guys, but I'm officially done.

>>50505602
What the fuck are you on?

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>>50505602

>>50505602
>"diminishing returns" is an option in d20 and d%
Literally how. Did I miss a post or something?

>>50505850
He thinks rolling twice and keeping the better or worse result is the same thing as a bell curve and not basically a -5.

>>50505602
I've read some dumb shit today... but this is just dumb shit deluxe.
This is the waaaay past the break point after which pretending being retarded counts as actually being retarded.

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>>50505887
>>50505602

>>50505732
To illustrate an example, with obvious, direct curves.

A less direct example of how a flat probability system can produce diminishing returns is having modifiers not stack easily, but that might have taken more to explain to you, and you seem really, really resistant to any explanations.

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>>50505906
>To illustrate an example, with obvious, direct curves.
>A less direct example of how a flat probability system can produce diminishing returns is having modifiers not stack easily

>>50505943
What is making you so stupid?
I don't understand what can possibly make these really simple ideas not get through to you, except for the obvious.

>>50505679
>>50505702
>>50505732
>>50505737
>>50505757
>>50505790
>>50505812
>>50505850
>>50505898

You're a retarded troll.

>>50505602
>>50505906
Can someone explain me how person this inept can even handle TTRPG?
I mean here I was, my entire life convinced that playing tabletops requires at least some basic understanding of Math. And then comes this guy...

>>50505961
Hey inbreed! This might shock you, but there is more than two people in this thread

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>>50505602
>>50505961
You know what's the actual scary part of this all?

The possibility that he's not only serious, but also convinced he's right and we are all just trolling him instead.

>>50506000
>>50506079
The sad thing is that you are going to continue to be stupid, and there's no way for people to know just how stupid you are.

Do us all a favor, and put on a trip to help protect this board from engaging with trolls like you.

I can't even tell who's trolling whom anymore. Statfags plz go. 3d6 and D20 ARE DIFFERENT in play (D20 guy who claims they act the same except d20 is more granular and better, you are dumb, because nobody playing D&D assigns bonuses/penalties based purely on statistical modifiers and there are codified modifiers ingame which you don't BS your way past or around and which act on a linear progression, stop pretending you can have the benefits of a curve without actually having a curve) and which you like better is PREFERENTIAL. I prefer 3d6, some like the swing or easily identifiable chance of a single die or even D%, whatever.

All of you get your shit together and get out. If that means this thread has to die, so be it, as it seems it was thinly veiled trolling attempt in the first place.

You're bad posters and you should feel bad. Particularly those making the community of one of my favorite games look like a bunch of imbecilic, shitposting egocentrics.

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>>50506348
The thread peacefully died 15 minutes ago, until you run necromancy on it.

>>50506408
Yeah, I thought the same thing. Nearly 24 hours ago.

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>>50506519
Maybe time to learn how to sage?

>>50504460
go back to /pol/

>>50494225
Actually certain...other sites and more than one HTML forum have bots for the express purpose of shitposting, which AFAIK we don't have here. Unless of course, we are ALL bots.

>>50497314


>veggies 2-4 cups
>fruit 1 1/2-2 1/2
>same amount of space in the pyramid

>>50510289
A few /vg/ generals have shitposting bots
They rarely post though

>>50493288
Just the toe jam

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>>50509205
>Pointing out that American education system is just broken is /pol/

Rolled 24 + 1 (1d100 + 1)

>not rolling superior 1d100+1d20+3d6

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>>50512103
Thanks, this thread almost already died, being page 10 and shit

>>50505679
In theory, of course GURPS has more variety. In practice, it has much less. Because games require many more players than GMs, and the player's experience is much more important than the GM's. GURPS is made for GMs and not for players. The entire appeal of it is in designing a game, not in playing a game that your idiot friend designed. From a player's point of view, the experience offered by GURPS is strictly worse than that offered by any game made by professionals. This has always been the source of GURPS' lack of popularity. It's the same reason PC gamers aren't lining up to play games made in RPG Maker.

>>50512623
So to continue the food metaphor, say there's a hungry family that all want to have a meal together, and only one of them is going to do the cooking. This is the structure of a typical gaming group. GURPS is a meal that sells itself as being fun to cook, though it's not particularly good to eat. It will please exactly one person and annoy the rest.

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>>50512623
>>50512684
Can this thread finally die?

Deal with it, the shitstorm already happend, you missed it.

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>>50512623

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>>50512623
>>50512684
>It's better to eat shitty quarter-pounders for the entire life than ever use a kitchen someone staffed for you with all the shit you will ever need
>Because I'm a lazy motherfucker with no self-respect
FTFY

I had no idea the GURPS Defense Force was such a bunch of fags.

I had no idea GURPS haters were such a bunch of fags.

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>>50512869
>>50512943

>>50498593
>>50500606
The funny part is that basic differential calculus isn't actually that hard if you know how to do it, and if you took even so much as high school precalc, you'd know how to do it.

>>50498349
As well as a big fat general warning, plus making Rule 0 Rule 1.

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>>50489199
>Vista
Nah, more like Linux.

>>50516306
shit, he's onto us

>>50497928
So what's meat in your analogy?

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>>50488908
>it's popular
>hence, it's shit

What a fucking hipster

>>50497928
>Except you can tell. It all tastes like tofu.
You have never eaten raw tofu. Tofu doesn't taste.

>>50519088
It's like people who say soylent doesn't taste of anything.

Yes it fucking does, how much raw pancake batter do you have to guzzle per day to think that tastes of nothing.

>>50519016
>>50519041
>>50519074
>>50519217
>>50519259
Fuck off.

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There are a lot of people her who are talking about GURPS being like having a kitchen and making your own recipes or using recipes, and that's fine and good, and I agree that it's "better than fast food".

But there are restaurants out there with highly trained chefs making things I'd never be able to pull off, and if I could, it would be a hell of a lot of work. So if the plebeian games like D&D are fast food, and GURPS is your own kitchen, where are the games that are like fine dining? I want to play those games.

>>50519088
While I am no gourmet I can perceive flavor of most things just fine. Raw (cooked on its own) tofu really doesn't have a trace of taste. That's why it's usually cooked with some spices or veggies (or even mixed up with meat).

>>50519238
I never had genuine soylent but local re-brand (of presumably very similar consistence) tastes like slightly sweetened flour. That is before the oil is added. With oil it mostly tastes of oil.

>>50519596
This sounds like a shoddy excuse for
>>50519507

ITT: No one has played GURPS before.

>>50519634
>>50519652
>>50519679
Faggot doesn't like the thread, tries to bump it to the limit.

>>50519414
Fine dining would be games I like, while fast food would be games I don't like.

/this conversation

>>50519723
I used to and I had a lot of fun.

>>50519890
>I don't personally like a thread
>I will throw a fit and bitch about how /tg/ is dying or some shit instead of just scrolling past threads I don't like

Literal aspergers.

>>50519890
When will people realize that the only time the OP of a thread is inherently relevant and relevant to the topic discussed is in a General? The OP is a starting point, it's about 20-30 posts in where the real discussion starts, and by then things will change. We could start talking about dual-wielding tower shields and end up shagging a cow girl. We could start by creating a Calvin and Hobbes RPG and about halfway in unleash the madness of the Pepsinomicon.

>>50520030
I mean, you could be posting something worthwhile, you know, but then again, you're probably incapable of that.

>>50520094
>I'm spamming to HELP the board!
>>50519274

>>50520176
>See any janitors lately?
>Mods maybe?
I usually don't, because I'm not a shitposter.

>>50520215
HAHAHA HOLY SHIT
MODS = GODS

>>50490241
>Good luck in finding a mexican american war setting, let alone one that throws in horror so you can have freaking wendigos.

Deadlands?

>>50488817
pizza, it has lots of various toppings you can put on it, but you'll probably just fuck it up and do ham and pineapple.

>>50520387
That is more of a general weird west setting than anything. In that case the weird is something that is accepted and known, not something that sneaks up on you like it does with Ravenous.

>>50520387
>>50523087
GURPS also has a Deadlands 3e book, if it matters. Also Discworld 3e. With a new Discworld 4e book forthcoming.

>sage