/osrg/ OSR General - Clever Mechanics Edition

Black hack's level difference based attack/defense scaling.

I love that shit.

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>>50480246
>Clever mechanics that caught your eye.

I don't know about anyone else but OSRs entire playstyle revolving around getting XP for treasure instead of fighting is the most 'clever' thing about the whole game, since it directly incentivizes being a cowardly and clever bunch of treasure seekers instead of heroes and mindless murderhobos.

More importantly; I want to know if any legit systems or homebrews do the whole XP for gold SPENT instead of gold recovered. Anyone use this tactic before? Or any rulebooks use it? I want to know if it encourages players to buy ridiculous or stupid bullshit and encourages a cycle of spending and debt to force them back into the dungeon again and again, befitting their medieval-rockstar lifestyle.

Scarlet Heroes' HD=HP and modification to how you read dice results.

Bam. Any OSR game is now solo player friendly/high powered PC friendly. It is such a clever and easy tweak too goddamn.

I didn't know Wolfpack's and Winter Snow had such a warm reception. Patrick from False Machine loved it. I think I have to read it now even though cavemen aren't my jam.

>>50480246
quite a few, but I'd say ACKS' version of Cleave is one of my favorites, taking a mechanic that I liked the idea behind(but almost always ended up sucking), and turning into into something amazing(one of the reasons Fighters in ACKS are stronger than in many other OSR games is due to how Cleave works here)

>>50480328
even if you don't do the Caveman thing there's a lot you could steal from W&WS for other games(and really a few tweaks and I bet it'd work wonderfully for an early Bronze Age inspired game)

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Reposting this >>50478938 anon's new rendition of his house rules for S&W.

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Random curio/treasure table from last thread.

>>50480292
I know that Bill Webb, one of the founders of Frog God Games, does XP for gold spent in his own game. It might be a thing in one of the versions of Swords & Wizardry.

>>50480292
ACKS does exactly that.

>>50480354

nice fantasy heartbreaker.

There's literally nothing to recommend this system. It's generic, basic, has conflicting ideas with itself, and isn't trying to acheive any specific goal beyond 'be similar to BX/Adnd'.

The sanity/stress relief and character flaws are both bad, since they don't actually encourage good roleplaying over bad. You don't help your bad players play an interesting character, you just give them a random gimmick to shout about. Your good players don't need help this basic.

The random commentary about ability scores and alignment, and the ultra-basic implementation of initiative, crits and fumbles all falls together into 'optional rules/houserules'. There isnt a reason these things are included or not, beyond the author's specific nostalgia for specific parts of Adnd/whatever.

I honestly don't know why you'd houserule this system. ACKs and LoTFP are both functionally identical to this, but more cohesive and better generally. Please explain why you like this system enough to spend any time on it, rather than any other similar game.

>>50480983
I would explain but I haven't looked at it yet, just reposted it.

>>50480246
The quick-start rules for ACKS's mass combat system.

I realized they were so broad, they could be used anywhere,

Hello /osrg/.

You may be interested in that thread. >>50475048

It's a little tool I made to quickly design hex maps.

http://hexdraft.x10host.com/

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TL;DR from last thread;

I'm trying to create a magic system for OSR where Wizards have essentially unlimited cantrips for weak and useful utility spells, buffs and debuffs but no big spells. Requires a wand to function. However I need to know how to make it interesting.

Which of the following should be used?
>Some kind of limitation system; such as spells cast per combat encounter, or force an action like 'drawing' mana towards yourself?
>Different power levels of spells, rolled randomly or requiring a 'spell combo' to activate?
>Different classes of spells to put points into upon level up? Maximum number of known cantrips at any given time?
>Power growth = wand growth, find better wands like a magic sword for better spells instead of combat?
>Some kind of sacrifice or mana mechanic to make spells more powerful? Stat or health drain? Blood sacrifice?
>Learn new spells purely from dungeoneering? Invent new spells in downtime? Learn from demonic entities?
>Spontaneous magic? What system?

>>50481289
Have you looked at Beyond the Wall's magic system? It's pretty similar to what you're looking for. Magic is split into Cantrips/Spells/Rituals. Cantrips are minor magic effects that can be cast an unlimited amount of times barring a miscast roll where the magic fucks up and goes out of control, spells are a classic Vancian style system, and Rituals are the major magic effects that require spell components and prep time. BotW has a generally lower level of magical power so a spell like Fireball or Invisibility is considered a Ritual.

>>50481289
For limiting the system maybe some sort of roll under Int test each time. If they fail they've exhausted their knowledge/wizard brain powers for a bit and can't cantrip and/or take penalties to spell casting.

Power level should always be low. They're cantrips.

For learning new ones and casting I'd honestly just let players come up with ideas and as gm make a ruling on if its a cantrip spell or not. I'd include ones I made up on scrolls and in spell books in the marginalia as low level treasure and such.

Being able to amplify your cantrips seems like a bad idea. They're suppose to be sort of useful stuff wizards do instead of getting their hands dirty, like changing the colour of their hat, or making a loaf of bread not go stale for a week.

>blood sacrifice to make the bread last 10000000 years

>>50480246
While we're talking about Beyond The Wall and clever mechanics, pretty much everything about their integrated character generation and world building is worth looking at. Links backstory to stats, gives characters reasons to associate, doesn't take too long, builds a map with the entire group, and has a good use of fronts that are easy to work with for the gm. Basically they took a lot of good ideas from more narrative oriented story games and fit them well into osr. Shit's tight.

>>50480246
Zak S.'s key mechanic: Instead of keeping track of every damn key that the party picks up in a megadungeon, secretly roll a d100 and assign the key that number. When they use that key to open whatever door, it has that % chance of opening the door.

>>50480312
how?

>>50482529
So on average a key has a 50% chance of opening a door, and if you have two it's more like, what a 75% chance? I think that's how the maths work out?

Wouldn't it be easier just to tell the players that the key they get is Key #X, and then secretly note down the relevant door number on the map?

>>50482529
That seems kind of dumb, honestly.

>>50484033
I haven't used it but it seemed like worth checking out. He also uses treasure tables that are fairly key heavy. You're suggestion doesn't sound terribly difficult to implement.

>>50484074
I think it really depends on the size of the map you are using and whether or not you are generating said map on the fly.

>>50480983
Anon who created the system here.

It's a collection of house rules for my Whitebox games. I simply titled it Advanced Whitebox because it expands upon the core game with classes, races, spells, etc. I personally like the fact that it is streamlined and basic so that others can add or remove aspects.
On the subject of stress, my players love it. It encourages them to focus also on the mental burden of adventuring. Not only do players fear death, but they fear their player feeling too overwhelmed and crazed from their trek.
In defense of the character flaws, it is a tool for character progression and development primarily for players that have trouble roleplaying or building a connecting with their character.

To be completely honest, nostalgia plays another impact on my writing of the book. I take full responsibility of that and have no shame.
I do think that I could factor stress more into certain classes outside of a few cleric spells. I'm open to any and all recommendations

The best Lord Dunsany story collection?

Alright guys. Help me figure out a good mechanic for playing out fast paced chase scenes through a city.

I kinda want to do something where I randomly determine certain abilities or skills to be tested: ie)DEX, Lockpicking, Climb, STR, etc. Start the enemy and the PCs an assigned number away, say 5. For each failure of a test, the number decreases and at 0 the enemy has caught up.

I dunno. Help.

>>50485627
The best mechanic for this is anything with fast adjucation, something like pic related totally works. If you want a good chase scene though, you'll have to be descriptive and factor players' decisions in. For example, getting on the roof can open a shortcut, but can also waste a turn. They're also free to try and delay the enemy using any element they can think of, like scaring the horses near him or shooting the giant carnival balloon which passes right over. This stuff is hard for me personally to come up with on the fly, I need a good sense of place before I can improvise this confidently. Pays off though.

>>50480246
I think boons and banes in Shadow of the Demon Lord is my favorite version of advantage / disadvantage mechanic. You either add d6s to a roll or subtract from it. There can be multiple boons and banes which cancel each other out but you always choose the highest result and TN is always 10. I might actually adopt it, works quite well with B/X modifier scheme.

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>>50485987
Forgot the pic, my bad.

sup /tg/, making first level of a megadungeon. What dungeon stocking rules/table do I use? it's gonna be a smaller megadungeon, for a group of 4-7 new players to the game, using LL rules

http://deltasdnd.blogspot.com/2012/10/random-dungeon-stocking.html

I'm looking at the choices here in particular

>>50486004

I'd alter this to take CON into account. Maybe after a certain number of rounds (Con/3?) you start to tire and get penalties to your rolls, or maybe you can trade Con points for a boost to your rolls? Hmm.

>>50485351
I've not read enough of his material to be able to say, but the Book of Wonder is fantastic.

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>>50485627
Here's a table I banged together for Moldvay Basic. It might at least give you some ideas.

what you guys can tell me about tunnels and trolls?

>>50487434
Okay, I enjoy T&T a lot.

So....

Old system, (like 1977 or so)
Only uses D6s
Can easily run both solo and GM adventures
There is about 8 versions but most all are very close to each other.
Outlaw press stole a bunch of stuff
The magic system has goofy sounding spells
character generation and monster descriptions are really easy.
You can learn how to play a fighter in 10 minutes, 15 if you never played a RPG before.
The harder to find Mercenaries, spies, and Private eyes is "Modern" T&T. Which also is a darn good modern system.

>>50487539
which version do you recommend me to start with?

Reading the castles and crusaders fighters makes my autism itches by just thinking in telling the players that an enemy haves 1HD, is the system worth to ignore this?

>>50487619
sorry for the typos

>>50487589
5.5 if you can find it, otherwise deluxe or 7.5

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>>50487434

For that matter, does anyone know what editions of Traveller are worth bothering with?

>>50487710
CT, Mega,Gurps, and Mongoose.

There is also a traveller general where you can get a lot of the files to play.

>>50487589
7.5 for more "normal" level games
Deluxe for more High-level games
5th/5.5 for using the old Solo books

>>50480501
>15 Terrible jokes. One of the jokes is so bad it reputedly makes people kill themselves out of shame, but the punchline is missing.
Is it The Aristocrats?

>>50487786

Not Mongoose 2 ed though? God I'm starting to have an itch to play non DnD RPGs but most of them gross me out, Traveller seems good though

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Posting just to keep the thread updated. Work is proceeding as usual. Some distances are fucked up, but adapting real world to hexes is harder than it looks.

It's also hard to get reliable info on population size, so for now all cities have only one of two icons depending on if they are capital of the local polity or not.

>>50487619
I've always hated the multiple attacks vs. 1 HD creatures in D&D (though C&C at least scales it down a bit). It seems like a very arbitrary dividing line. Why do 1 HD creatures get further penalized relative to 2 HD creatures? Surely having half as many hit points is a big enough disadvantage.

I say, give fighters a non-specific additional attack. Either have it only happen every other round (like AD&D does), or have it be every round but take the worse of 2 to-hit rolls. Or give the fighter a choice to make 1 strike at full to-hit, or 2 strikes at -2 or -3 penalty. I'd push back this bonus to 5th though. That way, it comes when casters are getting 3rd level spells.

>>50487861
I have not played mongoose 2nd....

Ask the general and I am sure you will get a explanation.

>>50487861
>DnD RPGs but most of them gross me out, Traveller seems good though
Well the nice thing about Traveller is that you can get all the old books here
>>50483440

T&T you would most likely need to get some books, but both deluxe, 7.5 and so on are nice.

>>50484033
This is for times when the players have been moving around between dungeons and just happen to notice a key in the equipment. The DM and the players both don't know what it is, so the mechanic is a way to fix it. It's a mechanic for a more chilled out style of play.

>>50483864
Monsters don't roll their HD. their HD becomes their HP.

Here's how you read the dice. 1=0, 2-5=1, 6-9=2, 10=4.

A Fighter rolls a 10 on his damage roll. That's 4 Hit Dice worth of damage. So he kills 4 orcs in one blow. The one remaining orc rolls a 5 on his damage roll. The Fighter takes 1 damage from his HP.

This makes the PCs a lot tougher, and a lot stronger. Download the free Black Streams: Solo Heroes supplement to learn more.

>>50487900
Do you feel that iterative attacks + cleave is too OP?

>>50485351
For practical purposes probably the Fantasy Masterworks omnibus, which collects a ton of his stories and is easy to get.

>>50487900
Well, in OD&D it's against "normal man-type opponents" or something like that (I forget the exact wording, but it's ambiguous) and appears by inference from Chainmail to be meant to apply to anything that would be a normal "line troop" as opposed to a monster or solitary hero.
So you could use that, although that makes the ability even stronger.

>>50487900
>>50490713
I'd just remove the HD restriction, it's unneeded, Multi-Attacks aren't quite good enough to warrant any disadvantages beyond the level you normally unlock it(now have it work with an ACKS style Cleave and things really take off)

>>50488895
I'm not sure you need both. I'd say do one or the other. Of course, having an intermediate step between "1 attack per round" and "2 attacks per round" would be nice in any case. So if you go for cleaves, you could maybe give cleave at 4th level, an extra attack every other round (or the equivalent) at 8th, and 2 attacks per round at 12th (instead of 10th). But regardless, I don't think you're gonna break the game. But really, I think a bigger issue than being overpowered (because I don't think it'll throw the game either way), is it being obnoxious. You get two strikes and each of them can potentially cleave, leading to 4 different attacks. You want shit to be quick and simple. If you really want to go with cleave, maybe instead of adding additional attacks, you could increase damage. So at some point, you start rolling an additional damage die whenever you hit. But I'm really just brainstorming here.

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>>50490965
Getting two attacks per round at 4th level, and three at 8th level is pretty powerful. Other people would really suck in melee compared to you. You could always lessen the impact some by baking your multiple attacks into your THAC0.

>>50490713
You could make it any monster with half your hit dice or less, I suppose, though that's a bit mathier than I like to get. Then again, the GM could just say it's any monster who is a mook / goon / rabble compared to you with the 1/2 your HD thing just being a guiding line.

>>50490965
>>50491080
Again, arguably in OD&D the cutoff is anything below 4 HD. A level 1 Fighting-Man e.g. a "veteran" is clearly still a regular soldier, but the level 4 Hero is a... well, hero. Something like a bugbear (3 HD) is likely a line troop, whereas ogres and trolls are obvious (albeit weak in the case of the ogre) monster types. There's also precedent for this cutoff in the form of the Sleep spell.

>>50487805
where i can find the 7.5 book, i only found 7th edition

>>50491080
>Other people would really suck in melee compared to you.

Well yes. You're a Fighter. That's your deal. You don't really shine anywhere else. Since combat is to be avoided whenever possible, you're there to make sure the party makes it out in one piece.

I don't see the problem in making a class the absolute best at its specialty.

A thought: give fighters multiple attacks as they gain levels, and let them choose how they split their attack bonus between them. So a fighter with a +8 bonus and two attacks could make both at +4, or one at +6 and one at 2, or one at +8 and one at +0, or what have you.

>>50487900
>>50488895
>>50490965
>>50491017

Just give fighters a number of attacks per round minus enemy groups highest HD, +1. Level 5 Fighter against level 1 goblins? 5 attacks. Level 10 Fighter vs level 9 Troll? Two attacks. Easy and encourages party to kill enemy leaders first.

>>50491558
OSR is quick and easy. Applying different bonuses to different attacks, especially if you're dividing a bonus in order to get those two different numbers, seems overly cumbersome to me.

>>50491481
>Well yes. You're a Fighter. That's your deal. You don't really shine anywhere else.
Other classes gain some of their value from being at least decent in combat as well. The gap between rogue and fighter to-hit in C&C is already much larger than in, say, Basic D&D (a 10th level fighter in C&C has a 7 point advantage over a 10th level thief, rather than the 2 point advantage he'd have in Basic). And there are other classes (namely, the barbarian, ranger, paladin and knight) who are almost as heavily focused on combat as the fighter. If the fighter suddenly gets drastically more powerful, they will comparatively suck at what is meant to be their mainstay.

>>50482328
>>50482351

Thanks for feedback guys. I need a bunch of useful cantrip spells now for dungeoneering and combat hexes.

As a DM, how do you organise your notes?
What do you think is the most efficient way to both write them up and reference them at the table. Bonus points if you have actually done it and had success with it.

Handwritten, typeset, electronic. Ring ninders, loose leaf, coil bound, google doc, evernote. Whatever format.

>>50492635
notes?

seriously, my notes are maps and 1-2 lines describing a encounter , and a reference to a page number for a monster if I need more then a name, AC, HP, and Hit Dice.

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>>50480292
Not too sure I like the idea of gold spent making the XP but the guy who wrote the big book of dirty tricks that was just on humble bundle used it as a houserule. I definitely am in love with the idea of gold recovered = XP though.

>>50492635
I'm also interested in this question. I have a crap load of wasted prep. I need an efficient way to recycle them for future sessions.

>>50492705
That counts.

But is having to reference different books for different monsters sounds like a pain at the table.

>>50492705
>>50492748

Use binders with general themes, make a cross or checkmark after you use them.

Binders like;
>Encounters and creatures
>Dungeons and traps and maps
>Items and house rules

Don't forget to keep a story notes page to keep track of what's happened.

>>50492454
In OD&D the core classes are Fighting-man, Cleric and Magic-user. If you keep it that way then you can easily have Fighting-man be the fighter specialist and give just him multiple attacks and it works fine.

>>50493030
Monsters in old school D&D are so simple that you don't have to reference any books during play.

HD, AC, #attacks, specialty if any and possibly move speed if needed.

Just have the stats on your dungeon map key and make random encounter tables beforehand.

>>50493332
Okay. I mean, clerics are obviously much better in combat than Magic-users and they can stand up pretty decently against fighters, especially if you're using non-variable weapon damage. So I don't see a huge issue with boosting fighters there. But we were talking about potential changes to Castles & Crusades, and that's a whole different kettle of yarn.

Hey does anybody want a random table, encounters, treasure, character packages, or something similar? Feeling creative.

>>50494516
>character packages
what do you mean by this?

>>50494561

I don't know like 'roll to generate character background, starting spells and equipment, etc. Or maybe random shit to change up a character hit with a Chaos spell. Just an idea.

>>50475862
>RIP Joe Dever
Any fans here? Lone Wolf is pretty old school. It was my first contact with RPGs.

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>>50495186
I will miss him enormously. He was my intro to RPGs too.

>>50491558
Just do the 3e thing where you can make attacks at -5 level etc

F6 gets an F6 and F1 attack
F7 gets F7, F2
...
F11 gets F11, F6, F1

>>50487890
What's the hex size?

>>50493030
>different books for different monsters sounds like a pain at the table.
Barring really odd monsters, HD, AC, and attacks is all you need in OSR monsters.

>>50496167
>Magnamund
>Magna Mundus
>Bigworld
I dunno, I could make it easy for myself here and make a crack about uncreativity, but somehow it doesn't feel that way to me at all?

It feels more like an escapist dream. The world you live in is small and boring... but here in these books, there's a whole much bigger world to explore.

>>50496861

This isn't a great idea. It wasn't a great idea when 3e did it, and it's not a good one now.

-5 per iterative attack almost ensures that the Fighter won't be able to hit decent AC monsters with it at low levels, and it becomes an irrelevant penalty at higher levels because ACs don't keep going up forever like in 3e.

The other issue, of course, is whether or not you're restricting a Fighter from moving and attacking with iterative attacks. You didn't say, but I'll address it just in case:

Limiting Fighters to standing still and getting multiple attack locks the Fighter down and prevents them from doing their job. Mobility is a necessary part of fighting, and 3e managed to kill every advantage the Fighter had.

Personally, I think a Cleave/Mighty Deeds ability is far more useful, or even an ability that allows the Fighter to attack an "arc" in front or to his weapon hand side is more useful than weak iterative attacks.

>>50497140
>>Magnamund
>>Magna Mundus
>>Bigworld
It was the 70s, man. Magnamund was based on his homemade setting for his LBB D&D campaign. Cut him some slack.

Besides, the Magnamund setting is DEFINITELY one of my best. It's medievalish where it needs to be, has enough fantasy elements to be intriguing and fascinating, and has some classic yet interesting myths of its own. Plus a lot of interesting, original monsters.

>>50497181
Since the issue is how to give a mid-level fighter a bonus that's less than an extra attack, how about a second attack at half damage? Then it's independent of AC

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I'm hacking LotFP into an 80s teen horror game (Lamentations of the Prom Queen!) for a one-shot tonight, and I'd like some feedback on my ideas/houserules so far-

1. Everyone starts as a specialist, re-skinned to "High-Schooler"

2. First-level bonuses/starting gear come from a DCC-style table. I think there'll be only d12 or so?
So far it's:
1. Cheerleader- +1 Melee AB, starts with Dad's Revolver + 6 Rounds Pistol Ammunition
2. Punk- Starts with switchblade, +1 to sneak attack base, +1 Sleight of Hand
3. Jock- Starts with baseball bat, +2 Melee AB
4. Amateur Photographer- +1 to Stealth, +1 to Tinker, starts with Camera
5. Grade "A" Student- +2 to Science, Starts with Textbook (Player's Choice)
6. A/V Club Member- +1 to Pop Culture, +1 to Science or Tinkering, Starts with Monster Manual
7. Band Geek- +1 Tinkering, +1 Melee AB, starts with Instrument (Player's Choice)

If anyone's got ideas or input or criticism or adventure ideas, I'll take anything!

>>50499213
gotta have a metalhead and a christian youth club member

>>50499213
Oh shit, forgot to explain-
Architecture becomes Pop Culture, and Bushcraft becomes Science, since those skills are sort of fantasy/historical setting-specific.

>>50497820
Any PDFs of the setting books?

>>50499148
One attack every other round, AD&D-esque?

You can even keep track of it relatively easily by flipping a card or whatever.

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>>50499213
Can steal some ideas from this.

>>50499213
Can't wait to see it
Is there a draft that we can see?

>>50482417
Do you reckon there'd be a way to make Beyond the Wall's chargen system a bit more interactive? I'm thinking something like a much less indepth Traveller?
As it stands, it's interesting, but ultimately the players are just rolling and being told what happens.

Maybe leave the circumstances of birth (parents and shit) up to the dice, but rework the childhood and young adult stuff into short, COYA-style vigenettes?

>>50499213
Camera flash should be able to blind things.

Token minority person
Redneck
Christian Youth
Metalhead

>>50500225
It's probably gonna be all on notebook paper until playtesting is done, but I'll see what I can do with learning how to make semi-presentable .pdfs!

>>50499227

Punk is pretty interchangeable with the first in 80s movies. As an 80s kid, there was a lot of crossover.

Stoner is an important archetype for teen horror films, 'cause there's often that one guy who sneaks off to get high or something and dies, thus reminding us that Nancy was right or whatever.

>>50499213
>>50500753
have a bimbo, a weird kid, a stoner and a confused exchange student maybe?

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Goblins or Kobolds, which is the more iconic 1st level monster.

>>50501969
Neither of those two designs, at least.

Probably the goblin, though, because of the greater popularity of it outside of D&D.

>>50501969
>>50502001
I mean, consider how many times the kobold's gotten a redesign.

Now consider the goblin.

Yeah.

>>50502001
I don't care for lizard doggos or brown hairy goblins. Sue me.

However, pig orcs are near and dear to my heart.

>>50501969
Goblin, of which originally kobolds were considered a type of. It wasn't until 3rd edition when they became associated with dragons.

I actually like this approach better, because synonym monsters tend to just bloat things, rather than bring anything interesting.

>>50502182
>Goblin, of which originally kobolds were considered a type of.
Only in Chainmail, really. In the rest of TSR D&D they're just the weakest of the humanoids/"giant class" - kobolds < goblins < orcs < hobgoblins < gnolls < bugbears < ogres < trolls < giants etc. etc. etc.

I'm about to run a high level adventure (11-13) for AD&D 2E. Never done that before, what should I be careful about?

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Remember that if you ever start to stress out that a setting filled with random caves might be unrealistic, just think of the states of Kentucky, Alabama, and Tennessee where you can't walk a mile without walking into a cavern falling down a sinkhole.

>>50502496
Make sure that the players actually know what their spells do?

Which module is it, anyway? Or are you running something more homebrew, as Gygax intended?

>>50502536
No, I am a Heretic I don't make my own shit. I am runing "Forest Maker", it is a shorter campaign set in Dark Sun. I will print out their spells and psionic abilities, so then if they dont know what those do I can skip them in combat if they stall.

>>50500774
Make a word doc, I'd love to play it

>>50501969

I like both honestly, But I am warming up to the idea of making all of those shitty little monsters generic 'Bogart' creatures who just appear in darkness from nothing. Maybe being able to have different interesting forms.

Or hell, ratmen. Whatever. Sometimes it's best to just make brand new minion 1 HD monsters whenever you get a new dungeon to explore.

>>50502740
>making all of those shitty little monsters generic 'Bogart' creatures who just appear in darkness from nothing


This is also a very good idea.

>>50502740
>Bogart
I read that like Humphrey Bogart. I think I need to sleep OSRG. Good evening guys.

>>50480246

I like what the Sine Nomine games (e.g. Stars Without Number, Spears of the Dawn) do with rolling HP. Each level you get a new hit die, but instead of just rolling the new one and gaining that many HP, you roll all of them collectively and take the new total if it's higher. So at level 2 you might roll 2d6, 3 it's 3d6, etc.

>>50501969

Personally, I prefer goblins. So much so in fact that I replaced gnomes with goblins in my own settings (I can never justify having gnomes it seems).

My setting is set in an early modern period though, and goblins and orcs have either assimilated, or been annihilated. Most enemies encountered at low level are demi-humans, many of them armed with firearms.

The most dangerous enemies are bugbears, who have their own continent spanning empire, and are advancing on the main setting's kingdoms with ever more aggressive naval power, and the giants. Giant have their own kingdoms, and so far they haven't reverse engineered firearms... but that won't last.

>>50501969

I personally like kobolds more, but would be hard-pressed to argue that they're more iconic than goblins.

>>50501969
Of course, while Goblins are the more iconic of those two they both lose out to the venerable Orc.

Seriously, a Fighter+Wizard+Cleric+Thief fighting an orc guarding a treasure chest in a dungeon room? The only way to make that more iconic would be to replace the enemy with a dragon guarding its hoard.

Is there a magic system with a press your luck (with consequences) similar to DCC but with fewer or more streamlined tables.

>>50501969
>kobold
>lizard
Just no.

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>>50503005
Are Bugbears in your setting Goblinoids, or a different thing all together? I've always liked the idea of them being big and strong but their preferred method of attack is ambushes and skulduggery; even though most adventures just run them as dumb berserkers. In the setting I run, Halflings are tormented by Bugbears, who consider them prime candidates for terrorizing and delicious to boot. Imagine something two and a half times your size and monstrously strong that can sneak and hide just as well as Halfling thief, and you're pretty sure it somehow just climbed through your window where you weren't looking and is hiding somewhere in your room.

>>50503518

What? They've been scaly little ratdoglizard things since 1e.

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>>50503821
Not sure about that anon but pic related is how I essentially how I do Bugbears aesthetically. They're still goblinoids for sure, using ambushes and skullduggery for attacks. They don't like to fight fair. They are also incredibly lazy, but can quickly jump into action if need be with a frightening bout of speed.

>>50503854
They were much further on the dogfaced side of the scale in 1E, had little-to-no scales throughout 2E, and then in 3E they had to find a niche for them so they made them into tiny dragon-men.

It's like how 5E orcs technically have pig-like features in their faces but are a far cry from the porcs of old. (Hell, they're less pig-like than the 3E orc - just look at the nose on that guy!)

>>50503821

In my setting, I rolled hobgoblins and bugbears into the same race, and gave them a bit of a reskin. They're not related to goblins in my setting at all.

They're huge (7 ft. average), muscular, smart, cunning, and expansionist. They believe that rule of the strong is the only proper way to organize society, and that the strength is not the sum of an individual's physical prowess or their intelligence or their knowledge, but a synthesis of all three.

They ride wargs, and originally were mounted archers. Nowadays they use guns from wargback. They've also learned the value of heavy infantry from the dwarves they conquered.

They're not Sith "rule of the stupid" though. The idea of betraying a battle commander because he makes a mistake is unfathomable to them. But said commander will likely pay for his weakness later by being removed by his superiors. The leaders are the top of the ladder are harder to remove for mistakes, but eventually a fool will make enough of them that his subordinates will remove him for the good of all.

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>>50503956
>They were much further on the dogfaced side of the scale in 1E

Not really, look at this little guy. He's covered in scales, has a doglike face, and what appear to be goat horns.

>had little-to-no scales throughout 2E

The less said about those dumb bug-eyed goblin-bolds, the better, IMO.

>>50504052
>The less said about those dumb bug-eyed goblin-bolds, the better, IMO.
Scorpion on a stick, though.

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While we're talking about monsters, I think that Ettercaps definitely deserve a little more love. One of the reoccurring NPC's I have is a wandering ettercap peddler the PC's will sometimes run into underground. He has a spidersilk coat he keeps his gewgaws in, attaching them directly to the sticky threads on the inside. He's a pretty blatant reference to the merchant in RE4, but the players love him.

>>50504265
It's kind of interesting how much the ettercap's design has changed since the Fiend Folio.

Did they even get all insectile before 3e?

>>50499253
Dunno. There have been RPGs for Lone Wolf, but I never got big into them. The one time I ran a game set in Magnamund, it was just with refluffed D&D and the setting was simply drawn from my obsessive knowledge of the gamebooks.

>>50504364
They were sort of insectile in 2nd edition

http://www.lomion.de/cmm/ettercap.php

>>50499253

https://mega.nz/#F!5FVUkRQA!dqWUdGzpbQm8AuluqDseMw

Fighting Fantasy, RPG subfolder, Going up as we speak. Should be done in about 10 minutes or so.

>>50504713

Wait, that's not Lone Wolf. Wrong directory.

Hang on, Lone Wolf RPG stuff coming up, in a subfolder..

>>50504713
>>50504785
still glad to see Fighting Fantasy stuff, are you posting the orignal stuff for Advanced or the new version?

what are the most underrated OSR?

>>50504941

I dunno, I got a directory full of stuff off of some old torrent way back, and I'm posting it.

which Sword and wizardy book should i download in the trove there are 4 editions?

>>50505941
all of them

At least get the latest printing and white box.

>>50505331
Beyond the Wall doesn't get talked about nearly enough, and it's a remarkably slick product.

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Which do you prefer and why: Swords & Wizardry Complete or Labyrinth Lord + Advanced Edition Companion?

>>50506312
What is that about? GoT?

>>50506626
it's Ursula LeGuin style 'bold youths venturing out into a wider world' style fantasy. Lots of folklorey stuff with fae and spirits and stuff.
It's got a bunch of fun systems for things like true names, as well as guides to making things like demons and goblins and stuff. Plus the book is really /very/ pretty.

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>>50492571
We all made pdf related a while ago. Some of them are a bit more than cantrips though. There was also some anon who made a fuckhuge list of spells, but I foolishly didn't save it.

>>50492635
>>50492705
>>50492748
>>50493030
>>50493317
Index cards. Index cards are perfect. Enough space to write important information on the monster, encounter, hex, item, etc. Easy to sort, store and hand out as treasure.

>>50500462
You could do short encounters for each event, mostly rp, maybe with an attribute roll at some point. If they succeed, they can get a bonus of some sort. Dogs In The Vineyard has a similar idea for character creation. Each character has some highish stakes turning point that focuses them, and they either make it or fail, but either way it shapes their character and stats. Its probably worth looking at.

>>50506312
This. I talk about it sometimes, but I try not to shill. Its integrated character/party/hexmap/campaign-plot is really cool though.

>>50501969
That goblin is repulsively bad. I don't know where that's from, but it should've stayed there.

>>50503082
>Of course, while Goblins are the more iconic of those two they both lose out to the venerable Orc.
You think? I put orcs and orcs on par with each other.

>>50507718
>png related

my bad

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>>50504052
Yeah, kobolds were always a bit reptilian, though early on they were more scaly dogs than straight-out lizards. If you entirely drop the dog, I think they lose all their character.

>>50507055
Will have to check it out

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>>50492571
Here are some cantrips I threw together for Moldvay Basic.

>>50507718
>>50508140

Thanks! Keep them coming.

>>50508140
Going to give some criticism.

>Fatigue
Too good.

>Incandescence
Conflicts with the game design. Makes resource management less important.

>Jolt
Way, way too overpowered as a spammable spell. This is the only thing magic-users would ever do every turn behind a wall of fighters.

>Long Arm
Way too good. Almost makes the magic-user be a better fighter.

>>50509716
Agree with all of these, especially Jolt and Long Arm (why even bother restricting M-U weapon choices if he can just use his dagger to deal sword damage at-will anyway?).

Like Anon said a thread or two back, a lot of these attempts are really illuminating as to why the base system works the way it does.

>>50508140
>>50509716

What's better for a damage spam cantrip? Have to make an attack roll, or keep it purely debuff instead of damage. Or maybe like 1 damage per blast?

>>50509872
There should not be a damage spam cantrip.

Simply, guaranteed damage is too good to give low-level characters at will, and anything that *does* require an attack roll is superfluous in that it either doesn't do anything the M-U can't do already, or it does (e.g. more damage, better range) in which case it's buffing the M-U in combat which is bad.

In LBB OD&D, only Fighters can use ranged weapons at all; in most of old-school D&D, only Fighters and Thieves can use non-shit ones. It's deliberate.

>>50509716
>>50509861
honestly I disagree in regards to Incandescence and Jolt, with the former mostly cause I'm one of those who finds the Resource Management aspects of the OSR to be more annoying than anything(although maybe reduce its duration down to 3 turns or something), and as for Jolt I'd say the damage is fine, although it should probably be a spell you have to roll to hit instead of being an auto-hit spell, which would basically just make it a magical version of a Sling, which I'm fine with as it means Magic-Users can contribute to a fight in a properly magical context without it being particularly overpowered(maybe make some versions of Jolt covering other elements as well)

>>50509872
>What's better for a damage spam cantrip? Have to make an attack roll, or keep it purely debuff instead of damage. Or maybe like 1 damage per blast?
if it does only 1 or 2 damage then have it be an auto-hit, if it does 1d4 damage(or something like say 1d3+1) than have it be an attack roll, same for if it deals a debuff of any sort, that's how I'd do it

>>50509716
These are meant to be limited use cantrips. You have like 4 of them. With that in mind...

>Fatigue
>Too good.
You have to waste a round to slow your enemy by one step. If they make their save, the effect is minor. Even if they fail it, they aren't blinded, or badly fucked up or anything. They're just a bit slower for a little while.

>Incandescence
>Conflicts with the game design. Makes resource management less important.
With limited use cantrips, I don't think this is much of an issue.

>Jolt
>Way, way too overpowered as a spammable spell. This is the only thing magic-users would ever do every turn behind a wall of fighters.
Magic Missile does an average of 4.5 damage at a range of up to 150'. Jolt does 2.5 damage at a mere 30', and occasionally 3.5 damage, though still at the same limited range. I'm open to the idea that it's a bit too powerful, but I don't think it's significantly so.

>Long Arm
>Way too good. Almost makes the magic-user be a better fighter.
With limited use cantrips, it basically does make the magic-user a fighter for a round, at least if we're talking about offensive power at low level and ignoring any attribute-based "optimization" (like the fact that fighter is likely to have a higher strength than the magic-user). But the magic-user is still vulnerably defensively, and at higher levels, the fighter is going to have a better to-hit and likely the advantage of a magic sword (which are more plentiful and powerful than any magic daggers you might find). And, of course, we're talking about an expendable resource. So you cast a cantrip and do decent damage for one round. And keep in mind that if you didn't use variable weapon damage, a dagger would do as much damage as a sword anyway.

>>50509966
the problem with that philosophy is that it leads to combat being an absolute bore for MU's who don't have a spell to use(and for Thieves in LBB OD&D stlye games if they can't get a backstab off)

honestly this is one of those things that does annoy me about the OSR at times, the insistence of having Magic-Users(and to a lesser extent Clerics and Thieves) suck at low levels, and Fighters(and Thieves) suck at the high ones, wouldn't mind making a OSR system some day that flattens out the power curve between all the classes so that whether you're at level 1 or level 14 a Fighter and a Magic-User are more or less on equal ground in a combat scenario(at least when working together, I wouldn't really bother trying to keep any balance for PvP ones), although I'd try to do it while keeping the classes at least somewhat unique in mechanics(so not quite as samey as 4E classes sometimes can feel)

>>50509970
>honestly I disagree in regards to Incandescence and Jolt
Well the thing is if you introduce stuff like this it's not Basic D&D anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with playing modern and/or different games, but those few cantrips alone would make concrete changes to the gameplay, making the game into something other than old school D&D.

>>50510058
In my homebrewed systems, I tend not to have the niches be quite as strong. Rather than a wizard who sucks dick at combat but who can bend the fabric of the universe (at least at high level), I have something that's a bit closer to a half-fighter / half-wizard (not strictly a fighter/magic-user as those only lag a level behind in their spells). So, everybody is at least relatively combat-worthy. You have a fighty guy who can cast spells, a fighty guy who can thieve, and a super-fighty badass. That seems to make for a type of game that seems more natural to me. But then I'm happy with a lower-magic setting, and not everybody is.

>>50510058
>the problem with that philosophy is that it leads to combat being an absolute bore for MU
It's a problem only if the game is played like a modern iteration of the franchise where each player "plays for himself" controlling strictly one character only. That's not the way to play old D&D and definitely not the way OD&D was designed to be played.

Too many players try to approach OSR like it's just a different set of rules. You also need to change some basic presumptions if you're coming from modern games.

>>50510156
>Too many players try to approach OSR like it's just a different set of rules.

Except that's totally fine and valid. Some people like epic high fantasy or other forms of character-based gameplay and storytelling with a focus on treasures and dungeons as opposed to the gigantic mess of later DnDs.

>That's not the way to play old D&D
You do not decide "what is the RIGHT way" to play anything, faggot.

>>50509970
>honestly I disagree in regards to Incandescence and Jolt, with the former mostly cause I'm one of those who finds the Resource Management aspects of the OSR to be more annoying than anything
But in that case you don't even really disagree, do you? You just don't *care*.

Which is fine, don't get me wrong; it's not like the Game Police are going to come to your house if you Play Wrong or something. It's just, these things still break the functioning of the system as intended. That seems like relevant information to provide even if some people don't care. Everyone wants everyone to have fun, it's just that "the system ground to a halt somehow" is one typical way the fun can stop.

>>50510058
>honestly this is one of those things that does annoy me about the OSR at times, the insistence of having Magic-Users(and to a lesser extent Clerics and Thieves) suck at low levels, and Fighters(and Thieves) suck at the high ones
But... what? M-Us don't "suck at low levels", the top 1st level spells are *incredible*. They suck *in combat* because that's not their niche. It's fine not to want to suck in combat, but in that case, just play a Fighting-Man.
Similarly, Fighters don't suck at high levels. The better they get, the less power the crazy M-U spells have against them, and in their turn they can bully the shit out of M-Us and shut down their spellcasting pretty much entirely. This idea that fighters suck at high levels in OSR is a desktop construction, and it also seems to be entirely based on nerve damage from 3E.

Which, you know, I feel for you, I really do. We were all in the trenches, and nobody's better off for it. We all have to carry that weight. But, still...

>>50510087
>Well the thing is if you introduce stuff like this it's not Basic D&D anymore. Not that there's anything wrong with playing modern and/or different games, but those few cantrips alone would make concrete changes to the gameplay, making the game into something other than old school D&D.
eh I think you're overthinking it(but then my definition of OSR is a lot looser than that of many of the people in these parts have)

>>50510156
honestly the main reason I prefer OSR rules to more modern ones is almost entirely due to them being simpler to use from the DM's side and how much faster they are in actual play(for example I actually like the character building mini-game aspect of 3rd and 4th editions, I just don't like how it bogs down play), I honestly don't care about sticking to the presumptions or philosophies of how most people ran D&D back in the day if I feel it would get in the way of me or my players enjoying the game

>>50510190
>You do not decide "what is the RIGHT way" to play anything, faggot.
Simmer down, edgeboy. There is definitely an intended and thus right way to use the rules, you're not really being very productive OR subtle by trying to reframe his statement as some sort of moral commandment.

Do you react the same way if someone tells you "that's not the right way to move the knight" in a game of chess?

>>50510201
If you can only cast a few cantrips per day / adventure, I don't see how it would kill resource management.

>>50510211
>I honestly don't care about sticking to the presumptions or philosophies of how most people ran D&D back in the day if I feel it would get in the way of me or my players enjoying the game
That's completely fine and really what's important. Still I think it's good to know at least what the original D&D actually is and why. Delving a bit deeper into it might open up new avenues of enjoyment for your group.

>>50510221
>Do you react the same way if someone tells you "that's not the right way to move the knight" in a game of chess?

False equivalence. DnD is primarily a game about dungeoneering and freedom of the players being able to use spells, items and abilities in creative or many ways. Chess is a codified series of rules of a very ancient board game with very 'set' rules. There is no adjudication in Chess, where as almost the entire game of DnD is adjudication.

>>50501969
>that horrible art

>>50510266
I'm aware of a lot of it, and I don't disregard stuff automatically(for the most part), but you do make a good point


anyways to shift us over to a new topic(cause while we're handling this one fairly well, it doesn't hurt to be safe), what are some interesting setting/rules concepts for an OSR system that you'd find interesting to see someone make, personally I'm thinking about making one based on the works of L Frank Baum after introducing the Rankin Bass version of The Life & Adventures of Santa Claus to my little sister today, as his works contain some really interesting fantasy concepts that I think would work really well in an OSR context, as a bonus all of his writings are in the Public Domain so there's a fairly rich set of inspiration available to freely use

>>50510303
well depends on whether you mean the Kobolds or the Goblin, the latter is indeed pretty awful, but I think the former is pretty good

>>50510465
both? This "modern" art is just not my preference. Give me any pre-3E art and I'll be happy. I'm not even all that fussy about it. I don't like some of the 2E art, but I can live with it, but when it comes to 3.PF, I just can't stand any of it. I'm not really familiar with 4E and 5E so I can't comment.

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Is there any way to do Clerics that isn't MU with healing/support spells + Fighting skills? I know a lot of games have houserules out there about clerics praying for things or some other rules to do with turning and such, but I just want to know because I like my classes to be really focused and each unique- I don't like elves or clerics having the same or even similar 'magic' abilities as a MU has.

Could someone quickly explain how Psionics work in 2E? I can't understand the handbook ._. .

>>50511704
Which version? IIRC there's like three fucking variants of the thing flying around.

>>50511714
The one from Psionic Handbook. Like I want to know how they cast their "magic" and how the thing works.

>>50511769
IIRC you just pay the PSP cost, roll an attribute check to see if you succeed, and then you get the effect (if any). There's some more-or-less optional rules for bad stuff happening on a natural twenty, good stuff on natural ones, and something about hitting exactly the score needed for the check. You still need to pay the psionic strength point cost no matter the result, though (although there's exceptions to that on certain crits and whatnot, because of course there is.)

I don't remember it too well, to be honest. I was never really into AD&D Psionics.

>>50511848
Thanks mate.

>>50511866
I suggest you google around a bit to see what others have to say on the topic - there's been a lot written about AD&D's psionics, I'm pretty sure. I remember a decent-ish Let's Read of the book on RPGNet, for instance, although I don't remember how in-detail it got (or if it's completed).

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>>50510497
>stop liking what I don't like

No thanks.

>>50510034
>You have like 4 of them

Should have put this is in the picture, it might have led to a very different discussion.

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What are some of the most rule innovate OSR? You can also post your own homebrew rules and ideas as well. I need to cleanse my pallet here.

>>50510465
>what are some interesting setting/rules concepts for an OSR system that you'd find interesting to see someone make

Anime. Either an anime setting or an anime based OSR game. That black hack thing doesn't count. Too rules light for my tastes.

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My homebrew.

>>50513239
Record of Lodoss War, brah.

>>50513258
It seems rushed. There's quite a bit of info that's either not there and must be inferred or is in the wrong place. Definitly revise

Say--

I got some interest in OSR after hearing about how it has a really enjoyable gameplay loop of dungeon exploration..
Which would you say is a good example as a newbie to OSR?

>>50514461

Moldvay/Cook Basic is the gold standard of the OSR.
If you want that, but with a more modern layout, try Labyrinth Lord. It makes a few changes, but is still pretty authentic. Plus you can grab AD&D bits you like via the Advanced Edition Companion for LL.

>>50514461
start with basic fantasy, one form of gameplay me and my friends find fun is this one:
Initial party go to dungeon
1/2 of party is dead if not more and the rest get money
They buy stuff and meet more adventurers in a tavern(players new characters)
Repeat

I generate random dungeons with donjon

>>50514591
Which one is that? Can't find it int the trove or the pastebin.

>>50514608
Thankya

>>50513155
gonna plug Wolfpacks and Winter Snow here. It does some interesting stuff, presumably by nessesity because of the stone age setting.

>>50491391
7.5 is on drive though, 7.0 is rather close. (my 7.5 is watermarked)

>>50514639

Moldvay & Cook are in TSR under Basic D&D.

>>50513239
Anime is a medium, not a genre, though. It's like saying 'novels' or 'computer animation'.
I mean, presumably you mean DBZ style shoenen stuff. But that's wildly different from your cutesy slice-of-life schoolgirls stuff, which is wildly different to Ghost In The Shell doing hard scifi...

>>50514663
Thank you.

>>50501969
Orc is more iconic then both, but Goblins are more Iconic then Kobolds.

I have just gone with the idea that these creatures are formed out of the dank, dark places of the world.

>>50502524
Always thought it would be cool to build a home in one of those ex-mining caves.

But I am nuts.

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>>50514720

It's not THAT crazy,

alternative to fighter multi attack to 1HD monster in s&w?

>>50515244
ACKs cleave rule?
Whenever a character brings a creature to 0hp he can make another attack against a creature within 5' of the previous target. Fighters can do this a number of times per round equal to their level. Clerics and thieves, half their level. Wizards can't cleave at all. You can move 5' between each attack if in melee.

>>50515244
Some sort of damage overflow would be very simple and easy.

>>50514686
Well yes, I know. What I meant was I want a setting or game that has an anime series as it's primary or sole inspiration. Any of what you said would be fine.

As a totally unlikely bonus I want this anime inspiration not be something shown in the 2000s or 2010s. Unfortunately, most RPG designers are middle aged. Whenever I see anime as a design inspiration, it's usually some old man shit from the 80s or 90s that's totally outdated now.

I mean, sweat drops and cat girls? Really

>>50515840
>What I meant was I want a setting or game that has an anime series as it's primary or sole inspiration.
Does it count if the anime was based on BECMI?

'Cause that's basically Record of Lodoss War. And some others (Slayers, etc.), but that's the classic example. Publishing "actual play" records and then later adapting them to anime is a thing.

Although, of course, Lodoss eventually moved on to its own system. IIRC Sword World RPG hasn't been translated, though.

>>50515840

Hey, don't knock the old anime. In the 80s we got to have our big giant robot pilot stories WITHOUT the genderswapping watersports fetish asides.

>drink my pee Tanikaze!

>>50515811
damage overflow?

>>50515928
A custom BECMI hack based on Lodoss War will totally kick ass and I'd love that shit. Package it with a straight laced high fantasy setting with lots of awesome art and badass looking yet impractical armor/clothes.

Fuck and now I've made myself sad that it doesn't exist.

rules for spell points?

>>50516011
Almost universally badly thought out and unbalanced, sadly. There's some real potential there, as 3.5's Psionics so helpfully showed, but it seems like the typical mana system designer isn't really that into the game balance aspects of it.
Or just went on to design their own, new system from the ground up.

I see some OSR have combats like this
1.Check for surprise
2.initiative
3.Spells
4.ranged
5.melee

is this combat better than the normal individual action one?

>>50511490
Well, start with your concept. What does the cleric do that nobody else can?

Does it need to be a class, or is it just a job? A sorceror or warrior could undergo the proper rites and become a clergyman, and perhaps gain a spell like ability unique to that religion (a literal gift from the god). If they fail to uphold their responsibilities, they lose the perks.

Personally, I've always thought it a little silly that all clerics of every religion are basically the same. And the class itself was only inserted into the game because one of gygax's original players wanted to play an undead hunter in the vein of Van Helsing from the hammer horror films.

OSR mechanics are so simple that it's often hard to differentiate abilities (while keeping them broadly useful).
>inflict damage
>heal damage
>make enemies suck (debuffs)
>make you or your allies awesome (buffs)
>assorted utility stuff (create food, open a locked door, levitation, etc).

You can design spells with more unique flavor, like "the enemy is cursed so that the light of the full moon burns them like a vampire in sunlight". But that's a hard thing to build a class around.

>>50516134
It's not necessarily better but it speeds up things quite a bit, retaining game flow which I think is important.

>>50516409
>because one of gygax's original players wanted to play an undead hunter in the vein of Van Helsing from the hammer horror films.

It was one of Arneson's players, actually. And it was a damn good idea because Dave Fant's character, Sir Fang the vampire, was basically invincible up till then.

>>50516409
>Personally, I've always thought it a little silly that all clerics of every religion are basically the same.
Hey, they're not all the same. You've got the healy catholic priests, and the hurty satanic priests. The former can bring Lazarus back to life, the latter can shoot death rays, and both can turn sticks into snakes and have 'em fight eachother. (Bible spoiler: Moses wins, the Pharaoh's priests lose.)

The issue's more that they then tried to apply those two archetype to every religion ever. They didn't really manage to fix it up until, what, late 2E with the spheres and whatnot?

IMHO they really should've just continued on the Druid's mold and made a new class for every general pantheon or whatever. (And continued on the Illusionist's mold for specialist Magic-Users, rather than the lackluster 2E specialists, but you can't get everything.)

>And the class itself was only inserted into the game because one of gygax's original players wanted to play an undead hunter in the vein of Van Helsing from the hammer horror films.
It was Arneson's players, IIRC, and it was because Sir Fang was a somewhat overpowered PC on the baddies' side so the good guys badly needed a buff.

>>50516134
In theory I love AD&D's initiative system with its horrendous seeming complexity (in reality, most fights don't even need inits).

In practice its not really balanced; lower level spells having faster inits sounds good, but Sleep, Web, and Stinking Cloud can solve almost any situation and are of minimum inits count.

Personally I would make the spell phase go last, but have a few spells go off sooner. Touch spells would go in melee (and not be interruptible) and shit like Melf's Minute Meteors and Acid Arrow would go in the ranged phase.

Is there any perticular reason your trove isn't in da archive?

>>50516583
Repeated copyright strikes and takedowns?

>>50516598
bah, that's why you don't use mega.

>>50516583
check the pastebins in the OP, should be a link to the current trove in one of them

>>50516643
MEGA is currently the best way to share this kind of stuff, as it's generally faster than any other uploader

>>50515840
So make it yourself? It's not hard to do OSR design, it just takes some reading.
And you are still being too vague. Which anime do you want to draw design inspiration from? Two decades has a lot to offer. Oh, and your 'old man' comment makes you sound like an entitled twat of a teenager.
Be specific, not general.

Someone tell me why is easier/faster to download a pdf from the Trove than it is a copy of same exact book I actually paid for on Lulu or RPG Drive? RPG Drive always bugs out and I have to start the download over again. Is it some security reason they have to take so long?

>>50520282
Yes, that's pretty much it. MEGA is a one-way authentication, did you download the file y/n? Lulu and Drivethru are smaller servers with slower speeds, and have to authenticate that you authentication allowed to download the file, confirm that authentication, and then check that you downloaded the file.
MEGA has has a lot of stuff on it.

>>50520282
>>50520369
Not only that, but also watermark the document if needed.

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>>50520610
Developers are also extremely inconsistent in labeling their shit.
>Buy PDF, doesn't say it has a watermark
>It's watermarked
>Buy PDF that does say it's watermarked
>It's not watermarked
WHY.

Reading empire of petal throne stuff.

Should be called Empire of Autism. (I say that in a good way)

>>50520771
Assuming that it's done as an anti-piracy measure and they haven't mislabeled it by mistake: if they do have the time and the wherewithal they don't want people removing it, if they don't saying that they have one dissuades people who are uncertain from sharing it anyway.

There's also the potential for iterated and multi-layered implementations of both.

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If anyone's still interested, Lamentations of the Prom Queen has a cover, now!
Here's the rules as copy-pasted from Notepad, since I'm lazy.

Rules Mods:
All characters start as Specialists
Architecture becomes Pop Culture/Genre Savvy- Knowledge of horror/sci-fi tropes, gives a general sense of how to deal with various monsters
Buschcraft becomes Science- Basic science knowledge, chemistry/physics, doesn't replace tinkering

d12 Backgrounds for Lamentations of the Prom Queen:

1. Cheerleader- +1 Melee AB, starts with Dad's Revolver + 6 Rounds Pistol Ammunition
2. Punk- Starts with switchblade, +1 to sneak attack base, +1 Sleight of Hand
3. Jock- Starts with baseball bat, +2 Melee AB
4. Amateur Photographer- +1 to Stealth, +1 to Tinker, starts with Camera
5. Grade "A" Student- +2 to Science, Starts with Textbook (Player's Choice)
6. A/V Club Member- +1 to Pop Culture, +1 to Science or Tinkering, Starts with Monster Manual
7. Band Geek- +1 Tinkering, +1 Melee AB, starts with Instrument (Player's Choice)
8. Metalhead- +1 Tinkering, Pop Culture, Starts with Jean Jacket (AC +2)
9. Youth Group Member- +2 vs Undead, Starts with Bible and Crucifix
10. Redneck- +1 Tinkering, +1 Ranged AB, starts with Toolbox
11. JROTC Kid- +2 Ranged AB, Starts with Practice Rifle
12. Blank Slate- +4 Skill Points at First Level, +$20

Equipment List:

Flashlight- $15
Batteries (Pack of 5) $7
Backpack- $12
Toolkit- $25
Crowbar- $15 (d6)
50ft. Rope- $10
Lighter- $2
Lighter Fluid- $5/16oz
Shovel- $10 (d6)
Duct Tape- $4 (180ft)
Baseball Bat- $10 (Two-handed, d8, flammable)
Switchblade- $15 (Concealable, d6)
Knife- $8 (d6)

The player characters are starting to gain in level and I'm starting to get emotionally invested in them. Almost got legitimately emotional when one of them almost died during the session tonight.
What do, /osrg/? I'm afraid I might not be able to follow OSR conventions anymore.

>>50521689
Yell your players to invest in anti-pc death measures, such as hireling healers, alchemists and clerics. Buy more potions. Check if rezurrection is available, or reincarnation. Institute optional death saving throws instead if instant character death per the system rules. Prepare to have your heart broken.

>>50514720
A few especially wealthy hicks have done just that.

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Courtesy of anon in the PDF share thread:

www dot mediafire dot /file/a3nrs287ftn4bfg/Kutalik-MistyIslesOfTheEld.pdf

Non dnd like games that recreate the osr feel?

>>50524363
Bueno

>>50524363
I've been looking for this for quite some time. Cheers

D6 only osr?

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>>50521689
>I'm afraid I might not be able to follow OSR conventions anymore.
"The one true way" of OSR tends to get over-hyped. People have always come at the game differently, and though there are certainly trends within OSR gaming, I can think of little that's sacrosanct. Play the game you want to play and don't worry about getting OSR "right".

>>50525044

I want one. Having a roll20, d6, ORE, or some other one roll or dice pool resolution mechanic would be a nice change of pace.

>>50525044
I think I've seen some OD&D conversions floating around?

Not that it's that hard to do - once you use Chainmail's d6 tables for combat, all that's left and using a d20 is saving throws.

And stuff like the number of monsters appearing and the 1d100 treasure tables, but those are easy enough to rework and in any case are behind-the-scenes DM stuff.

>>50525044
According to Taxidermic Owlbear, three Swords & Wizardry-based games--The Blue Book of Dangers and Dweomers, Crimson Blades, and 3D6 in Order--use d6 resolution systems. I'm not sure if they exclusively use d6s though. Also

>>50524491
I've heard good things about torchbearer. Apparently, its play style is geared to shitfarmers getting in way over their head in dungeon delving.

>>50525765
I really like The Grind, which is its major time management subsystem:

First it makes you hungry and thirsty.
Then it makes you exhausted.
Then it makes you angry.
Then it makes you sick.
Then it makes you injured.
Then it makes you afraid.
And then it makes you dead.

>>50524491
Into the Odd is a minimalistic distillation of core OSR principles without common D&D mechanics.

Neoclassic Geek Revival is sorta recognizable as D&D at first but it's wonderfully idiosyncratic.

>>50525044
Spellcraft & Swordplay, Pits & Perils (my favorite), Epees & Sorcellerie. I'm sure there's more.

>>50505331
Ambition & Avarice. Not only it does nifty things with familiar rules, but It's also a slick and colorful alternative to the Finch's oldschool gaming primer, things are very well explained.

>>50526032
Do you have any link to Pits & Perils?

>>50496880
8 miles or 13 km.

Unfortunately, it's REALLY hard to translate cities in hex keeping the correct distances between them. I wasn't expecting it to be this hard (or maybe I'm just rubbish).

>>50502947
>instead of just rolling the new one and gaining that many HP, you roll all of them collectively and take the new total if it's higher

Just remarking that it comes from Empire of the Petal Throne originally.

>>50526141
It's in the trove.

>>50526163
Cities don't take up the entire hex, man, nor are they necessarily in the direct center - they're just somewhere within the hex, be it in the middle or right at the edge.

>>50526167
There's some arguments to be made that you could read that rule into OD&D, albeit without the "take the new total if it's higher" bit - IIRC the example for rolling hit dice is an eighth-level Fighting-Man rolling 8d6?

>>50526196
Oh I see, it's the first place I looked but I couldn't immediately find it. Thanks!

>>50502947
Funny, I always used to do this as I thought this is was what you were supposed to do.

>>50525044
Swords & Six-Siders

I've been thinking of porting over DCC's spellcasting for normal OSR games by rewriting B/X spells to work similarly to how they do in 5e. As in, you have a baseline effect, and then which aspect scales with the roll. It'd make spells much more compact.
Corruption would be handled similarly. First you make a saving throw against magic and if you fail you gain corruption. Spells would be split into schools and each school would have a table to roll on instead of each spell needing to be referenced.

Would this be worth the effort?

http://breeyark.org/alternate-combat-rules/
Just came across this. Rather interesting musings. Anyone got any thoughts?

>>50480312

Has anyone actually played Scarlet Heroes? I've only read it, so I'd like to hear how it feels in practice. It changes some pretty fundamental expectations around pretty drastically (your level one character will be smiting ogres and worse left and right) and generally makes it a much more high-powered game. Of course, it's also mainly intended for solo play, so that would certainly balance it a bit. Still, it seems like this could easily devolve into mindless hack n' slash.

I'm intrested to hear how it actually feels in practice. Does it do what it wants to do well? The damage modification mechanic at least seems like a pretty clumsy mod (you roll damage, take that number and then look at a chart to see how much damage you ACTUALLY did, since it wants lower damage numbers than what's normal), but that's more of an aesthetic thing.

>>50526032
>Neoclassic Geek Revival is sorta recognizable as D&D at first but it's wonderfully idiosyncratic.
May you be willing to elaborate a bit for us?
NGR is rarely spoken of, and I'm curious if there's worth to it.

>>50527261

It definitely feels more like being comic book Conan and cutting down the mooks left and right. In practice you stop needing to look at the damage table pretty quickly.
It does feel a little more hack'n'slashy than OSR, if only because killing dudes is less risky. But big nasties and large groups are still pretty scary, and you'll want to get out of there quickly when you notice the enemies start wearing you down.

Any update on the Magnamund trove?

>>50528045

I don't know if I'd call it a trove, but I uploaded what Magnamund stuff I have to a "Lone Wolf" subdirectory of the mega link I posted earlier.

>>50527261
The damage change feels pretty easy to use in play in my experience. But yes, it's high powered. You're not a demigod like in Godbound, but you're Batman. In fact, that's one aspect that isn't talked about much in the game. It's background and skill system is also geared to making PCs pretty fucking skilled.

The thief isn't just a thief here. His thieving skills are designed to break the skill cap. My PC really felt like a swords and sorcery Batman.

Also, it's true solo play system really sings. I wish Kevin Crawford expanded in it. His urban adventures solo play system is leagues beyond any other game. I've had a lot of fun with that.

PCs are still mortal though. My thief died while fighting a high level demon. Tests indicate that a level 5 Fighter will still lose against a dragon.

>>50510465
>what are some interesting setting/rules concepts for an OSR system that you'd find interesting to see someone make

Anyone know of any setting or system that's like Thundarr the Barbarian? Science-Magic and the post apocalypse is fun.

>>50528495
Theres the Crawling under a broken moon fanzine for DCC- they have an entire place of the setting that is just straight (not)Thundarr/He-Man

>>50528533
Awesome. Thanks!

>>50522482
Yeah I think Gygax mentioned that once chars in his campaign were past the low levels they could pretty much always afford resurrection.

What do you think are the most educational classic modules to read for a DM who has never ran classic D&D and wants to build a homebrew module?

>>50529857
B1 In Search of the Unknown, B2 Keep on the Borderlands, B3 Palace of the Silver Princess (original orange version) and B4 The Lost City.

If you want to build a city then City-State of the Invincible Overlord is also worth peeking at (especially the encounter rules), and if you want to make a vast hexcrawl wilderness the Wilderlands of High Fantasy is a neat book to comb through to give you an idea of how less can be more.

For megadungeons, you're probably best off just pawing through Caverns of Thracia - it's somewhat small so you can see the whole a bit better, and the interconnected nature of it is just good design IMHO.
The alternative is, like, Ruins of Undermountain. Which is an option, I suppose, but that's a proper old-school megadungeon and thus fucking enormous.

I also remember reading some really interesting White Dwarf back in the day on how to make the dungeon "alive" and having things actually happen in it (through wandering monster checks, IIRC) rather than just having Schrödinger's Orc wait in his 10ft box until its opened. However, I don't remember the name of the article or what issue it's in.

I'm looking to play a short, crisp, almost tournament-tier adventure with my group, whom I'll give pre-generated characters. They've all grown into responsible adults and we can at most get a game going once every other week, for a single evening only, so I'd like to prep a nice condensed experience for them. I'm looking for something in the ballpark of 3-4 hours playtime. I'll also have to translate the read aloud beforehand, so ideally the adventure in total shouldn't be too verbose either

I originally wanted to do DCC #79.5: Tower of the Black Pearl, but I'd rather ask for suggestions here first.

Anyone run any adventures like described above?

>>50529947
Not that guy, but I'll probably run B1-4 after a few warmup sessions. Hopefully I'll get them hooked on tabletop again.
Translating the Ruins of Greyhawk megadungeon is kind of a pet project high-end goal for me.

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>>50530096
>I'm looking to play a short, crisp, almost tournament-tier adventure with my group, whom I'll give pre-generated characters.
Gone Fishin', perhaps? I'm not sure if it's really what you're after, but I remember it seeming fairly short and linearish.

You could make the fish soup as well, I suppose. That's a neat bonus.

>>50530180
This is neat, but I was hoping for a regular dungeon crawl. Might offer fish soup during a manpower-shortage session.

>>50529947

Not that guy, but where are City-State of the Invincible Overlord and Wilderlands of High Fantasy in the trove? The TSR section is fucking massive.

>>50530745
That's because they're not TSR products - they're from Judges Guild.
>Supplements>Judge's Guild>Main stuff
Make sure to also grab Dark Tower and Caverns of Thracia in the main JG folder, I guess. They're both pretty damn good.

>>50530866

Thanks!

I love the OSR. I'm so glad I stumbled into this general.

>>50526831
Not sure if it would be worth the effort, but I promise to read it if you go through with it, seems awesome.

>>50528495
>Anyone know of any setting or system that's like Thundarr the Barbarian?
Gamma World is pretty close if you refluff mental mutations as magic. And even if you don't, you still have Thundarr with mutations instead of magic.

>>50529947
>B3 Palace of the Silver Princess (original orange version)
Why wouldn't you go for the cleaned-up, revised green cover?

>>50532295
Because the original still includes all the B1-esque DIY bits, and is thus a bit more useful for a DM who wants to practice dungeon design.

Note how the only one of those four that doesn't have something like that is B2 (not counting the Cave of the Unknown, that is), but B2 still has a bunch of useful information about how the Caves of Chaos are restocked and a good example of a "home town" in the Keep and whatnot.

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Anybody have a PDF of this they'd be willing to share? I've heard good things.

>>50526831
I'd be interested in this. I always wanted to port DCC's spellcasting over, but it's just too damn crunchy as it currently is.
It'd also fit, considering Chainmail originally required spell checks.

>>50526831
I'd love to see it happen, but I've seen many people in these generals saying that they'll do it only to disappear. It's clearly a massive undertaking, so good luck.

>>50532551
It's Pay What You Want. You can download it for free if you want to check it out.

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I'm considering switching from B/X to either AD&D 1e or OSRIC, but I'm not quite sure of what are the difference between them. Any thoughts?

I'm not quite sure of those choices though, I just want an OSR with tons of options and material.

>>50534115

I wouldn't recommend AD&D personally, because of the way ability scores are done. Maybe the Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion or S&W Complete would sate your option thirst?

Where can i find pdfs of all of the Pits & Perils books? The trove only has the core

>>50534209
Hmm... Those two sound interesting, but I barely know anything about them. What do you like about them personally?

>>50534772

From what I understand, the LL AEC is more or less 1st edition converted to B/X. S&W Complete out of the box has assassins, druids, paladins, rangers, monks, etc., race separate from class, and most of the options you'd find in the base AD&D game. I don't care for the way they do ability scores, but Dexterity at least isn't a godstat in S&W Complete.

>>50521534
I really dig that cover. Kinda feels like something that you would find in a teen satan-worshipers' notepad.

>>50534115
Labyrinth Lord Advanced Edition Companion is designed to give you AD&D options built on top of B/X's simpler core system. Basically, it tries to reduce the unnecessary clutter and bullshit in AD&D, making for a more streamlined, sensible game. I personally think it's only partially successful, and would have liked it to have streamlined things a bit more, but it's still a step in the right direction. One interesting thing is that it aims to stay compatible with the core Labyrinth Lord rules (which is to say: B/X) to the point where you have core and AEC characters in the same party.

>>50534921
>>50534958

Got it, I may avoid AD&D for a while then and I'll check out your proposals. I may end up leaning towards S&W since it sounds like what I've been looking for

>>50534945
Yeah, a friend mocked it up in about five minutes and honestly I can't think of anything more fitting. Once there's more playtesting I'll actually sit down and draft a thingy.

>>50533686
>It's Pay What You Want.

Looks like it costs actual cash money now.

>>50533679
go look at how Last Gasp Grimoire does magic.

I've always lived reading about the sort of shenanigans people can do with the RC's Weapon Mastery has anyone used straight in their games?

Martials getting save or suck effects make me cheerful.

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Does anyone had the Lamentations of the Flame Princess Playtest Document 0.1? It's not very big, so if someone has it but doesn't want to scan it, snaps a couple pics I can copy it to a PDF.
It seems the only way to get it was to be part of Ragi's subscription service back at the beginning of the year.

I haven't asked for this since September, so maybe my luck has changed.

>>50535888
Last Gasp has been dead a long time hasn't it?

>>50537516
Only in terms of posting. The site is up and the hosting is covered for the next few years.

>>50537516
It's still up!

Dude should make an ebook compilation. There's some serious good stuff in there.

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Courtesy of Mageguru

s3ndsp@ce

com/file/dy1xyc

how many classes do Loft haves?

>>50539691
loft?
If you mean lotfp, there's the same 7 as in b/x/

Can /tg/ help me out by designing some ruins?

So Godbound's back story is that the Former Empires of the world achieved post scarcity by using magic and technology. Kevin Crawford's been pretty open that he bases his math on b/x so we'll be using spell lists from that. What sort of high magical society can you get from those spells?

Feel free to use high technology too. What we've got in canon material is some pretty heavy genetic engineering and eugenics. A tribe's soul-gene is mentioned. I assume this allows inheritance of traits even if the people aren't related, as long as they share the same tribe.

dndwithpornstars features a couple classes that are actually just random d100 tables that you roll on. Does any game do that as the standard?

what you can tell me about OpenAdventure?

>>50539872
The Alice in Red and Pleasant Land does. It's pretty boss.
Same guy wrote it.

>>50540159
well after googling it, seems potentially interesting, but will need to explore some more before giving judgement;

http://geekguild.com/openadventure/

>>50540628
>Bringing back gaming for the kids

This is a good goal to strive for. I hope his rule book is as easy to understand and evocative as basic.

>>50540628
although looking into the creator's blogs and stuff, he kinda comes off as an asshole

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Do any of you guys use the attribute requirements for classes thing that B/X and some retroclones like LL use?
I like it in theory because if one goes with the idea that character creation is about "discovering your character", and then the player can get "rewarded" for their rolls by getting to play certain characters.
On the other hand, I think it takes away player agency in most cases and it removes that interesting dynamic of being able to play certain classes while also having the completely wrong attribute array for them.
Would love to hear how people who use attribute requirements in their games think it works during play.

>>50541664
I think the best way to use it to highlight really rare and special classes. Leave the classic four or whatever you use to be played with whatever stats people have. But lucky ones can decide between a monk they're finally qualified to play or something they already knew they wanted to play.

>>50540628
I don't really think there's a need to create special trpgs for kids, except maybe something really specific to use as a learning tool. It's trivially easy to strip down whatever seems complicated to you from Basic.

On the other hand, my autistic players probably will like it.

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>>50541664
The attribute requirements in B/X are limited to demihumans and somewhat take the place of a +1 attribute adjustment in AD&D. I'm not hugely attached to them, but I'm not opposed to them either. Most of the time you're gonna roll higher than 9 anyway, so the minimum won't come into play very often.

I'm strongly opposed to more stringent requirements, like some of the ones you see in AD&D. It's one thing to say that you can't be a thief with a low dexterity, but it's quite another to say that in order to qualify for a particular class, you need two 14s and a 13. That's just ridiculous. Having high attributes is already a boon, and you don't need to further reward it. Any requirements should also be simple and easy to remember. You shouldn't have to check a spread sheet to see what classes you qualify for every time you roll the dice.

In any case, I think that any attribute requirements that do exist should be regarded more as suggestions than ironclad rules.

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>>50540628
Not saying anything in particular, but like, I'm just saying.

>>50541796
Aren't felids and kitsune both cat people? Or am I thinking of something else?

>>50541825
Kitsune are foxes, not cats.

>>50541838
Ah. Okay. I can't keep up with you crazy kids and your japanimangas. Back in my day, you just stuck "men" at the end of an animal and called it a day. So you're a guy who has lizard traits? Lizardman. You're a lion-like dude? Lionman. You're a man who's a guy? He-man. Don't overthink things.

I will say that cat-people and fox-people don't seem very different, at least not enough to both be on a short list of 10 options. Foxes are halfway to cats from dogs, being smaller and nimbler and so forth.

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Finally a reason to desecrate this place with glorious kitsune pics.

>>50541796
"Klangon"? Really?

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>>50542094
Also the system is already too much. Feats shouldn't exist in the kid's game AFAIC.

What's the best OSR stuff on Lulu?

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>>50542129
Comparing character creation section with Moldvay. Come on.

>>50541788
AD&D's attribute requirements for certain classes are in place because those classes are overpowered and should be very rare.

>>50542173
That's quite a lot of products. Interested in anything in particular, adventures, settings, rulebooks? I would say get Yoon-Suin no matter what.

>>50542182
>AD&D's attribute requirements for certain classes are in place because those classes are overpowered and should be very rare.
But then it makes no sense to award them to already-powerful characters. That's the exact opposite of what you'd want. "Hey! You rolled super high and kick all ass, thus qualifying you for overpowered classes so that you can EVEN MORE ass!"

>>50542219
I think the idea is, why would you ever play core classes if you could always play overpowered classes.

>>50542217
Basically I'd like to get my hands on anything good that's OSR, but I guess I don't need any more rulebooks.

>>50542264
Alright then.
Yoon-Suin is a great weird setting book that actually gives you tools to make it your own, Stonehell Dungeon is a great megadungeon that is pretty good to use in actual play and Anomalous Subsurface Environment (ASE) is a setting / megadungeon that's dripping with gonzo flavor.

Tomb of the Iron God is a good introductory adventure.

If you'd like to make an exception for a rulebook, make it for Perdition.

>>50542240
I get that, but tying it to high attribute rolls is counterproductive. Maybe you could have a separate die roll or something. Or you could just more closely balance the classes so that's not a problem. After all, with variable experience progressions, it's usually not too hard to compensate for power imbalances.

>>50542386
Try and see the bigger picture. You've been blessed with the right stat array and get to play a paladin. But the low-level lethality is still there. And once you die, you can't possibly hope to reroll a paladin like fighter or magic-user. Getting cocky because you rolled high and got to play a rare class is the worst thing you can do.

>>50542386
>Maybe you could have a separate die roll or something.
Roll 2d6:
10+ to be a druid or assassin (16.67% chance to qualify)
11+ to be a ranger or illusionist (8.33% chance to qualify)
12 to be a paladin or monk (2.78% chance to qualify)

Or, if you want the chance to qualify for classes to be a bit closer to what it'd actually be in AD&D RAW if you rolled 3d6 straight down the line for your attributes...

Roll 3d6:
15+ to be an assassin (9.26% chance to qualify)
16+ to be a druid (4.63% chance to qualify)
18 to be a paladin, monk, ranger, or illusionist (.46% chance to qualify)

>>50542264
I think Castle Gargantua is a Lulu product.

The chance for a human to qualify for a class in 1e using 3d6 straight down the line.
cleric -- 61.28%
druid -- 2.87%
fighter -- 58.30%
paladin -- 0.09%
ranger -- 0.16%
magic-user -- 61.28%
illusionist -- 0.37%
thief -- 61.28%
assassin -- 6.40%
monk -- 0.04%

The chance for a human to qualify for a class in 1e using 4d6 drop low, rolling attributes in order.
cleric -- 85.43%
druid -- 13.62%
fighter -- 84,03%
paladin -- 1.38%
ranger -- 2.93%
magic-user -- 85.43%
illusionist -- 2.91%
thief -- 85.43%
assassin -- 27.13%
monk -- 0.89%

>>50542892
I thought thieves didn't have any requirements, or am I remembering wrong?

>>50542368
>>50542698
I'll definitely check these out. Thanks!

>>50542922
>I thought thieves didn't have any requirements, or am I remembering wrong?
The only thing that's listed under thief is a minimum dexterity of 9, which by itself would give you a 74.07% chance using straight 3d6 (or 89.51% with 4d6 drop low), but if you look under the actual ability tables, they specify that only magic-users can have a 5 or lower strength, only fighters can have a 5 or lower intelligence, only clerics can have a 5 or lower dexterity, only illusionists can have a 5 or lower constitution, and only assassins can have a 5 or lower charisma (and only thieves can have a 5 or lower wisdom). Why? Because AD&D loves being unnecessarily convoluted.

>>50543140
Hahaha oh man. That changes all the probability around as well, doesn't it?

>>50542892
>The chance for a human to qualify for a class in 1e using 4d6 drop low, rolling attributes in order.
Note that the standard DMG method is 4d6 drop lowest, arrange as you wish:
cleric -- 99.80%
druid -- 73.51%
fighter -- 99.80%
paladin -- 24.19%
ranger -- 29.46%
magic-user -- 99.80%
illusionist -- 35.82%
thief -- 99.80%
assassin -- 93.51%
monk -- 13.15%

Also, to complete the set:
3d6 bard -- 0.0017%
4d6 bard -- 1.59%

Also, in case anyone wonders, the hardest class to qualify for is the Unearthed Arcana Paladin:
UA paladin 3d6 -- 0.0002%
UA paladin 4d6 -- 0.89%
Note, however, that UA introduced all kinds of weird high-power attribute generation methods that made it more likely. (Guaranteed, IIRC.)

>>50544111
That are the chances of qualifying for nothing?

>>50544206
.2%, as you can see from the fact that the easiest classes to qualify for all have a 99.8% probability in his list (in 4d6 arrange freely, those classes are all mathematically equivalent).

In other words, you're more likely to not get a viable character at all with 4d6 arrange freely, than you are to get a Paladin with 3d6 down the line.

Do you favor limiting the amount of spells an MU can learn? I'm kinda torn because I like the idea of MUs finding spells during adventures and learning them, but on the other hand limiting the amount of spells allowed to be known by a single MU leads to specialized MUs, which are awesome flavor wise (having to seek out that one high level MU NPCs because your party needs a spell that the party MU can't cast, and he is at his spell cap).

On a related note, relating to the cantrips thing; how about granting the MU a prestidigitation class ability; allowing them to do minor magical effects x times per day.

>>50544276
>>50544206
For reference, "qualifying for nothing" basically just means that you've got 5 or less in two attributes.

Anydice puts the probability of your second-lowest score being 5- at 0.19%, so that looks about right. I'm going to guess that the rest comes from needing to have 9+ in your highest ability score - a probability high enough that anydice just lists it as "100%", because it only goes to two decimal places.

You're VERY unlikely to get a completely unusable character in Method I, at least. (I'm going to guess that it might be a bit lower still once you factor in racial ability bonuses, but I don't know if those would affect much.)

Also, if you want to get some sense of scale to those numbers: getting two 18's with 4d6-drop-lowest is a 0.38% chance. Getting three stats that are 17+ is a 0.34% chance. Getting four that are 16+ is a 0.35% chance, five 15+ 0.32%, and having all stats be 14+ is a 0.20% chance.

I repeat, you're as likely to get an unusable character as you are to get a character whose lowest stat is a 14.

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206KB, 584x806px

To get thee through thy morning slump
I say to thee, good stranger, BUMP

>>50544778
It's past the bump limit, dingus.

>>50544815

Damn, that means my spell fizzled. Probably needs more caffeine.

The gods grant mercy, like an oasis in the desert:

>>50544981

>>50542173
Terra X, Fire on the Velvet Horizon, Yoon-Suin, Deep Carbon Observatory.