The level of hate that these games get on /tg/ has really gi

Your reasons for wanting to play them are dumb and I guarantee you will regret at least two of the three, but more power to you and good luck in your endeavor OP.

> pathfinder

Dumb unbalanced bullshit where a character can end up with a 22 AC at level 1 and start with 22 HP from smoking opium. This kind of broken ass shit fucked up my last campaign. Oh, and caster supremacy, that makes it even worse.

> Savage Worlds

A really good core system and idea (the stats dice, the toughness mechanic) is ruined by the goddamn Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up, and hoarding them for when you take 65 damage from a halfling's thrown pebble. Not to mention shotguns that let you automatically hit because they give the d20 equivalent of +8 to hit from the "buckshot spread" which in reality is not that much. Overall it's a couple good ideas that are ruined by developers who think their shit doesn't stink. And defended by an autistic community who can't see a flaw in their faggy Indiana Jones game. So, basically like Pathfinder.

> Dungeon World

This isn't even a game really, it takes the cool mechanics of Apocalypse World and adds hit point bloat and combat maneuvers instead of fiction-affecting moves, except it has those too so as to further confuse the narrative. Half the stats don't matter because you can "defy danger" to dodge a fireball with charisma if you can justify it to the fucking DM that you deflected the fire with the sheer force of your ego, the game fucking allows it so long as it "fits the fiction." Apocalypse World was not nearly this autistic, and also had interesting classes. This has the same standard D&D classes, and turns Apoc World's core mechanic into a boring shitfest. The combat could be cool if the moves system was designed for prolonged combat but it isn't. It's not even good for freeform, there are better freeform systems out there. It's literally only popular because its heroic fantasy genre.

Also:

> players needed: 6

This is fucking retarded. You want six (6) players for a Pathfinder game? Nigga I run Pathfinder on a weekly basis for 6 fucking people. It is not pleasant. Especially because Pathfinder players are spergs who always want to wander off by themselves and do their own shit. Fuck that. 6 players is just a goddamn handful anyway. Four max. 6 players in a Savage Worlds game is similarly fucking broken, if you're doing this online you're gonna have to flood the board with miniatures to keep the group challenged. You'll probably try to run it like Pathfinder though, with single-monster encounters, and get absolutely BTFO.

> If you are interested in joining, you must submit a 1000 word character backstory for each system, which will be subject to review.

Holy fucking shit, kill yourself. I am not submitting 6 pages of info just to join your shitty campaign. When doing the acid test, you're supposed to go with fucking hydrochloric not jump straight to fucking hydroflouric, faggot.

> If you are interested in GMing one (or all) of the systems, you must use those 1000 words to explain why you love the system so much.

Am I back in fucking high school?

> - What the best edition of the system is

I hope you're trolling with this because each of these systems have one fucking edition. Except Savage Worlds but even that really isn't a new edition, despite what it says on the deluxe/explorers books.

>>50384764
Savage worlds is great for everything except high combat campaigns.

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>>50384764
I can't speak for Savage Worlds and Dungeon World, but I ran a Pathfinder campaign for two years and that was plenty of time to learn just how fucking busted the game is.

It purports to fix the problems that D&D 3.5 had, but fixes absolutely none of them and instead creates its own problems entirely unique to its terrible sub-systems. The numbers bloat and spiral wildly out of control, making some options untenable at high levels. It's an extension of ivory tower design / system mastery design where there are some options that are outright worse than others without any sort of attempt at balancing them.

It perpetuates the martial / caster discrepancy that dragged 3.5 down and turned warriors into a laughingstock compared to casters, who regularly make reality their bitch, summon creatures that are better at fighting than the PC classes designed specifically for fighting with a minuscule expenditure of resources, and invalid not only entire skills but entire classes with low-level spells.

On top of that you've got developers who will ban anyone who disagrees with them and run their forums like a gulag, and a toxic fanbase of a) furry degenerates, and b) minmaxers who never actually make characters, just experiments in seeing how high numbers can get.

If you've played D&D 3.5, you've played Pathfinder, and you're missing out on absolutely nothing by skipping it.

>>50384944
>making some options untenable at high levels.
To elaborate on this, I meant not just "some options" but "the entire combat maneuver system" which is supposed to allow PCs to push, pull, trip, disarm, break weapons, and other shit. At high levels the numbers don't scale properly, which results in combat maneuvers becoming fucking useless.

Plus, since they just use 3.5's combat system, the only viable way for martials to deal damage is to stand in one spot and full attack. That being said, dealing damage is probably the least-efficient way to deal with encounters, since the game has not only all of 3.5's save-or-suck and save-or-die spells, but a whole host of its own caster power creep spells.

>>50384764
Nobody hates Savage Worlds. It's a fairly well done game that someone's been shitposting about because they're really thirsty for yous. It'll be something else in a week's time, maybe two.

>>50384944
>>50384989
Congratulations on saying everything that /tg/ says about Pathfinder in the last 10 years without adding anything new or interesting to it, and just flat-out parroting memes.

>>50385024
No, I actually do hate Savage Worlds, and I'm not even the one making the threads. I have to DM this shitty broken ass game every weekend because my fag friends won't play anything else.

It's a shit game , for the reasons I outlined above. Respond to those points, or get the fuck out because you don't have an argument. You cannot say a game is "good" and then ignore why it's bad. You are objectively wrong and you are trying to mislead OP into wasting money on a shitty game.

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>>50385082
>complains that a four paragraph post about personal experiences with a broken system is just "parroting memes"
>>50384889
>this is somehow not parroting memes

it's okay to calm down anon. in through the nose, out through the mouth

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>>50385082
>parroting memes
I just said that I ran Pathfinder for two years and learned all this myself.

>>50385231
Shit, I wrote the wrong number there. I meant the guy I quoted, not >>50385024

>>50384944
I don't see how the minmaxers are doing something wrong

If an RPG has a character creation minigame that is more in-depth and interesting than actual gameplay, of course you're going to have people who are interested in the game solely for the character optimization. It's hardly wrong of them to take joy in the strongest aspect of Pathfinder

>>50385435
It's more of a personal complaint rather than a complaint against the system or even the player base. It just annoys me, is all.

>>50384989
Actually, 3.5 had the spirit lion totem option for Barbarians which gave them pounce at level 1 while giving up only their fast movement, whereas PF Barbarians need to get to level 10 and waste valuable rage power slots on two otherwise useless rage powers.

Which altogether means that 3.5 martials weren't as locked into standing still and full attacking as PF martials are

>>50385506
Fair enough. Both games are broken shit, but sometimes in their own ways.

>>50384764

I'd just like a pathflounder general that isn't /rise of the shit erp general/

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>>50384889

>all these dumb memes

I didn't expect a decent discussion of these systems to turn up on /tg/, but damn, this whole post is terrible.

>>50384889
What separates bennies from the metacurrency systems in any other game? I think that Savage Worlds is fine game, thought it isn't as nice as GURPS.

>>50385506
Rage Swimming still gives me a laugh.

>>50385082
I too have come to hate a system based on the flaws within the system. The system was pathfinder GMed for six players after being told by a person who I could talk rules with that it fixed 3.5s faults. After finding out first hand I was wrong along with having the system associated with the idiot players that didn't learn the rules, it wore down my soul. Really this hell was self inflicted but I did it for the social interaction. I no longer loathe pathfinder as most bad feelings were with the players but I sure won't ever run or play it again.

>>50384889
>Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up
nobody does that. and if somebody did that, they risk not getting invited again. Not to mention that this is easily houseruled away. jesus christ, stop being a faggot.

>>50385082
>I have to DM this shitty broken ass game
>DM
>literally pleb-tier GMing
good, i hope you suffer second of it, you worthless piece of trash

>>50384889
Savage Worlds is meant to be pulpy and cinematic.
Shotguns being ultimative boomsticks is pulpy as hell, if you don't like it: don't add the fucking +2 bonus. It's your game.
Bennies are supposed to encourage the players to take risks and make them able to do great stunts, a tool for a more cinematic experience.

>>50384889
>ruined by the goddamn Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up, and hoarding them for when you take 65 damage from a halfling's thrown pebble
>ruined

This is easily averted by the way a GM handles bennies and encourages players to spend them. Don't be so stingy with them and encourage your players to rp their hindrances. There are also a shitload of setting and house rules for bennies. You're not even trying.

Also about shotguns, there are a ton of negative modifiers someone firing a weapon should have to overcome like distance, visibility, movement etc. that many GMs forget to apply. They're far from an automatic hit.

>>50385231
>spending so much buck on what's only use is basically fireplace fuel
Well, at least they'll help you to survive the winter if the apocalypse comes. For a day.

>>50384764
Nobody hates Savage Worlds except idiots who don't pay attention to the called shot rules.

>>50384889
>and hoarding them for when you take 65 damage from a halfling's thrown pebble
Assuming a thrown rock does 1d3 damage, the odds of that happening would be 1 in 20,920,706,406.

>>50384764
People don't have SW or DungeonWorld. They usually hate on the fanbase. In part rightfully so. Pathfinder is just shit though.

>>50384764
>The level of hate that these games get on /tg/
Dude, EVERY game gets tremendous hate here. I honestly can't think of any game that isn't met with furious hostility by more than half of the community. Maybe the 40k games, I never read those threads, but I'd bet people claim they hate them, too. There are just a lot of angry, negative people on this board. I would take anything you read here with a grain of salt.

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>>50384910
>actually read the roll20 application

>>50387762
Yeah, almost everyone gets a lot of hate. The few ones that I haven't seen attacked are games created here on the community like Time Wizards and Song of Swords.

>>50384764
savage worlds doesn't get flak you faggot everyone loves it

>>50387762
That's not true. There are few persons to hate each game sometimes those are even recognizable singular posters repeating same trash in same style, but you can clearly point out games that are hated way more widely.
So yes, (almost) every game gets some hate, but some get (way) more of it than the others.
Pathfinder and DW are clearly ones like that, SW is just OPs projection. FATE would be more appropiate in it's place though I'm not sure . I clearly see more FATE-hate than SW-hate, but still it's order of magnitude below PF-hate and DW-hate

My feelings on SW are neutral, but I do find it hilarious that I'm reading the same PF-tier defenses for the system.

>That issue isn't an issue because you can houserule it!
>That never happened in MY game, so your point is invalid.
>etc.

>>50387762
>Maybe the 40k games, I never read those threads, but I'd bet people claim they hate them, too
40k and its fluff is some of the worst thing that has ever happened to this board and this hobby.
Not even trolling, I fucking HATE the living shit out of that game and it's stupid fucking fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything.

>>50389413
>Not even trolling, I fucking HATE the living shit out of that game
That's unreasonable.
>and it's stupid fucking fanbase trying to shoehorn it into everything.
100% reasonable.

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>>50384764
>1000 word applications
>making a listing for a game you aren't GMing
>choosing the time for a game you aren't GMing

wew lad
Good thing you posted this here faggot. Now everyone can block your bitch-ass.

>>50387807
I've seen song of swords being attacked on the basis that's "fun for everyone but the GM because it's a crunchy, dense, hell" but that was like, one time

>>50389915
Also seen it attacked for being statblock porn for swords.

>>50389915
I don't have a high opinion of SoS, but I don't see a point in shitposting about it.

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>>50389971
there's no point in shitposting about anything, because it's ultimately "what i like vs what other people like" devoid of any coherent discussion besides "i don't like x thing hurr hburr" and being bitter over it for no other reason besides having noone to vent over but strangers on a cambodian claymation imageboard and being so autistic that the only way to voice your displeasure with something is through memes, greentext, passive-agressiveness and smug anime girls

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>>50384764
I'd like this believe this is a joke but I don't think I can

>>50384764
Okay, PF and DW I can see, the backlash has been building for years, but who is attacking Savage Worlds? It's a rules medium universal system with intuitive mechanics that covers a wide range of possible campaign settings.

It's not even Vanilla, it has enough cool shit it's Premium French Vanilla. Who shits on Premium French Vanilla?

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>>50392105
>but who is attacking Savage Worlds?
It's been pointed out time and time again that the internet often brings out the worst in people, especially anonymity. Not saying people do a 180 when they start browsing these boards, but minor grievances are exacerbated into full-on shitposting when there's a platform for it. In some ways that's healthy because it allows an outlet for frustration that can't always be fulfilled offline.

Case in point, Savage Worlds is a system I'll play if it's offered, but I have no hesitation about saying how much I'm sick of the system. I play it because a close friend of mine loves it given how easy it is to run as well as all the types of community content that's produced, but I hate the exploding dice, I don't like how limited character creation is (if you play a non-human you have to take flaws to get any sort of Edges or customization), and the third party material is a mixed bag ranging from decent to god awful. Pic very much related: my LGS was selling a copy of this for nearly $40, consisting of an entirely black-and-white book with one of the most generic settings possible.

It's still one of the easier universal systems to get into if you're not interesting in GURPS, but after playing several different types of games with SW I wouldn't touch it voluntarily without heavy houseruling. If you want to play something with similar mechanics to Savage Worlds but slightly more polished in terms of combat and dice pools, I would unironically recommend any setting made by the guys who did Ironclaw, refluffing as necessary.

>>50387437
>not hating on DW
lel, newfag

>>50387762
people aren't angry; they are BORED thus shitposting

>>50387055
Bennies encourage hoarding to ensure you don't get instagibbed by the first opponent that crits against you. Unless you're in the heaviest possible armor with the highest possible defenses, you're going to "die" at least once in any given combat unless you pull off a soak roll.

A soak roll that can only be made with a bennie.

>>50387644
Isn't this directed to Dungeon World? Shit, I remember some of those points, they made sense at the time.

>>50386416
House rules are not a valid argument with RAW. Also I have seen this strategy employed plenty.

>>50387055
It's not pulpy as hell, you mong, it's fucking retarded. Pulpy as hell also involves you being able to be fucking immortal and the game doesn't have that either.

>>50385506
After 2 attempts paizo could not come up with a dervish that worked.
Eizards got it in one attempt.

>>50386113
>told by a person who I could talk rules with that it fixed 3.5s faults.
I really do wonder why some people think this.
It is worse in every single way.

>>50384764
>those requirements
You will fit right in with the pseudointellectualism of a worlds game.

>>50384889
Holy shit it is like someone crystallized and distilled every shitposter on /tg/.
Weneed to study this for science.

>>50396072
>Pulpy as hell also involves you being able to be fucking immortal and the game doesn't have that either.
Then just make the players immortal you cock gargler. Oh, what, that's boring? WHAT A SURPRISE
This is fucking retarded. The anti SW fags don't even know what they're arguing anymore

>>50396896
Anon, this guy is the troll that's been posting "this weapon suxxx" threads.

>>50384764
>that application
Jhesu Crist, please tell me this was one of you guys taking the piss? No one is that cringy, right?

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>>50397365

Of course not, there's no way OP could be bait.

>>50393839
>but I hate the exploding dice
>I hate my random number generating polyhedrals generating random numbers
Please explain.

>>50398930
>random
Wow, we kids now I guess

>>50396857
>Implying those aren't all 100% true

>>50398968
dice are supposed to generate random numbers.
Thats why not every side is labeled 6

>>50398996
Ssssshhhh, it's okay. You can go back to your legos now or whatever it is your parents let you play with

>>50385231
>TBZ between the Pathfinder books
[autism noises]

>>50398982

They only sound true if you're an idiot.

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>>50399836
Or if you've actually read or played any of the games in question.

Sorry kiddo, there's literally nothing you can do about it.

>>50400012
Not everyone has the same experiences playing the same games anon, and these experiences can permanently shape opinions.

One guy may play Pathfinder in a group where no one plays a class above tier 4 and the DM knows exactly what he's doing, while someone else may have suffered through playing a swashbuckler in a party with a powergamer druid determined to show off his amazing build with a DM who can't handle the bullshit.

The good experience is equally as viable as the bad experience. Just because you had fun doesn't mean others have not suffered

>>50400012

I've played all three -- liked one, hated one, and could take or leave the third -- and that post's a load of horseshit memes.

>>50388689
I think the idea is that the problems that SW *does* have are not as pronounced as PF's. They occur sporadically, then they are easily fixed with one or two rulings because they aren't deeply ingrainded into game's systems and are never brought up again. Nobody dedicates 4 years to fixing SW's problems by rewriting it from ground-up.

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>>50400081
>>50400134

>>50400176
I don't have to like Pathfinder to defend it from bad arguments

In fact, I hate Pathfinder, in my personal experience it is the most disappointing RPG ever made. Promised as 3.5 but with all the bullshit fixed, it as 3.5 with all the bullshit intact + more bullshit (CMD and CMB are the worst)

But, that's a subjective opinion, brought along by my expectations being too high for the actual product combined with a disappointing first session DMed by a Paizo fanboy, I would never claim it's objective truth because other people don't have the same experience with the game as me

>>50396072
>>50396857
It's literally one of the options in the Core rulebook, and it's brought up again in various setting books.

>>50384764
Well I mean have you been to a pathfinder thread? I've also not seen any savage world's hate, the few generals it gets from time to time tend to just be dull.

Curious about dungeon world though.

>>50386416
>>50384889
>Bennies that reward you calling off the session after you use them up
Could someone explain this to me? How does not showing up the next session matter for bennies?

Like I've seen people hoard them until the last moments of a game, which is dull, but I'm not getting what you're on about.

>>50393839
>(if you play a non-human you have to take flaws to get any sort of Edges or customization)
So you miss out on a single edge and have to actually take hindrances? Do you normally not take hindrances? Rather do you not normally max them out and then some?

Now excuse me while I get the ability to fly at character creation, take a pike, and literally ruin the game for everyone else.

Like at least hate on the right things man.
(also interface0 shot gun best shotgun, +2 only applies out of short range)

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>>50384764
Pathfinder is fun

Anyone who says otherwise is a meme spewing neck beard who thinks his experiences with his toxic as fuck players represent the system as a whole and wishes everyone would just play his shitty Homebrew.

>>50394968
in that case bennies arent the problem, they are the solution (to another system problem).

>>50400870
see
>>50400176

>>50400870
and
>>50400954
see
>>50400081

>>50396926
>>50397365
>needing to be told that that douche is a troll
don't embarrass the others anons, guys
jesus, the quality of /tg/ has REALLY declined. it's a clear-cut troll thread and still people take the bait like the morons that they are

>>50400870
Pathfinder might be a decent improvement on 3e but that's not exactly a high bar.

3e's still shit, no matter how hard you polish it.

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>>50400954
see >>50400954

>>50400925
Let's see, using the example of halfling with a pebble, and ignoring that >>50394968 ignores all probabilities in play especially because an "insta-gibbing-crit" would likely completely ignore all armor and defenses (as they tend to scale towards the regular amount of damage you tend to see getting shit out, again bitching about the system, jwithout using actual bits of the system worth bitching over).

Half-folk receive no modifiers to strength so assuming the average of d6, and a pebble would at worse be just the ability to do strength damage at a range, or an additional d4 damage due to being an improvised small thrown weapon.

Let's do the math for both because just strength is piss easy. Let's also assume average throwing because who the fuck actually puts points into throwing?

Str rock. To hit 50% against some guy standing still 12 feet over there in the open field we're all standing in with no notable terrain features.
Chance of wounding (again assuming an average opponent meaning d6 vigor and as such 5 toughness) - 11%
Chance of instagibbing (keeping in mind that 60 some damage is a bad example because wounds cap at 4) - 00.31%.

Chance to hit with improv weapon rock is actually only 14% unless this halfling has the edge. Which like fuck he does.
Chance to wound - 30%
Chance to instgib - 01.25%


And because we're all forgetting incap chances for the victim assuming wildcard because we wouldn't be bitching if this happened to a random mook.
Dead - 3%
Bleeding out - 56%
Unconscious - 41%

Chance to die from most damaging halfling
14% * 1.25% * 59% (assuming unhelpful teammates) = 0.1%

Or in other words an over exaggerated problem that only sticks with you because it happened once and humans remember bad luck pretty well.

>>50401142
great post, mate. too bad it was posted in a troll thread.

>>50401225
Ehh, I just like dice math.

>>50384889
>Half the stats don't matter because you can "defy danger" to dodge a fireball with charisma if you can justify it to the fucking DM that you deflected the fire with the sheer force of your ego, the game fucking allows it so long as it "fits the fiction."
That's why the DM just goes "nah, that doesn't make sense" unless it makes sense.

>>50384910
>1000 word
>six page
Do you use a fucking kindergarten easy reader font?

>>50401741
a thousand words is about two pages and op wants that 3 times.

>>50398747
>>50400980
Nah I don't mean OP, I mean the guy who replied to OP's game with an application

>>50400334
Basically, you receive 3 bennies at the start of the next session and fags have been pushing the narrative that one could just spend all their bennies and then call it early because of how the rules work.

What ruins that thought however is that, surprise, once people catch on to what you're doing, they're not going to invite you back for being a ponce.

>>50401741
1000 words is anywhere between 2-3 pages depending on the type of words that you're using in your paper.

And this motherfucker is asking you to submit this shit three times, just to participate in a recreational activity that involves playing pretend and rolling dice.

It's asinine.

>>50384764
>The level of hate that these games get on /tg/ has really given me a hankering to try playing these.

Just ignore the trolls and stop pretending the worst people on /tg/ are any significant part.

>>50403781
I'm fine with that if it's a good campaign and I'm emotionally invested in it.

I'm not fine with that as an entry requirement for a game which could be good or bad, and I don't know yet.

>>50384764
Savage Worlds is an ok system. People who enjoyed Deadlands and AFMBE will probably enjoy it, too. It's not a perfect system, but it's simple enough and it works.

Pathfinder is D20 and basically all D20 based systems are outdated shit. They only survive because of DnD/ADD undeserved popularity. Pathfinder also seem to be pretty unbalanced.

Dungeon World is some weird narrative shit like Apocalypse World or Monsterhearts. It's closer to childhood fantasy stories than a real TTRPG. Numales, faggots, landwhales, lesbians and SJW's seem to enjoy this kind of game where everyone is a DM.

>>50400081
Except the game has been set up to produce a shitty experience that is easy to abuse within RAW. House rules are irrelevant, they are not RAW, stop using that shitty justification you little motherfucker.

>>50400151
Savage Worlds' problems are just as severe as Pathfinders, they just haven't been meme'd to death on /tg/.

> Nobody dedicates 4 years to fixing SW's problems by rewriting it from ground-up.

That's because there's not enough system there to rewrite.

>>50403680
>What ruins that thought however is that, surprise, once people catch on to what you're doing, they're not going to invite you back for being a ponce.

So basically you are punished for acting intelligently? Holy shit, Savage Worlds literally introduces a mechanic that is TERRIBLY designed, then punishes anyone who figures out how to use them with social ostracization!

Kill youself. Your game is shit and you are trying to defend it with "well well the GM can do this" and "well well the GM can do that," well well, you can go fuck yourself, Savage Worlds fan, because your game is such an enormous load of horseshit it can't even beat out a shitty OSR Apocalypse World clone in popularity.

>>50404310
Here's a fix.

Every successful attack lowers toughness by 1.

>>50403872
>Numales, faggots, landwhales, lesbians and SJW's seem to enjoy this kind of game where everyone is a DM.

Except, no one is a DM. The rules are restrictive bullshit and the theme of the game is nothing like the mechanics of Apocalypse World were meant to produce. He wanted firefly, not Lord of the Rings with the most cowardly cumdrop of grimdark tacked on. He wanted interparty conflict, plotting, leverage, etc not slaying 16 hit point elder dragons that require a shitload of the DM lying, and bullshitting, to make challenging.

>>50404359
How the fuck does that fix anything or make anything interesting? In fact it literally defeats the purpose of the game, which is a complete lack of bookkeeping. You want me to track which orcs have Toughness 8 and which have Toughness 7?

>>50404392
In that case, every turn grants the players +1 to all attack rolls.

>>50404377
>Responding to himself.
Come on, Virt. You can do better than that.

>>50404402
This is actually a good houserule in most tabletop games

>>50404340
It's not even acting intelligently, you're just exploiting a perceived flaw in the system just to gain a marginal advantage at the cost of everyone else's time and enjoyment.

If you're going to skip games just to gain bennies then stop wasting my fucking time and leave so that someone else can use your slot to see the campaign through to completion.

Actually no, just pack up your shit and leave anyways, because it's obvious that you don't give a fuck about the campaign if you're willing to pull this shit in the first place.

>>50401657
Except it never makes sense. Only in autistic "NAT 20 OMG DUDE" territory where "ALWAYS SAY YES AND" autism reigns supreme, would that shit even be considered. No, no, no, get the fuck out of this hobby, you are making it seem even more autistic with your "anything goes as long as it's FUNNY" bullshit.

>>50404438
>>50404402
> ripping off 13th age

It's not even a good rule, nor does it make any sense. And, beating high Toughness is not the issue Savage Worlds has. It's just broken for anything except minion combat.

>>50404486
Nigger you're retarded and misinterpreted what I said. I'm saying the best strategy is for the players to call the game session as over once they use up their bennies. If you only have time for a 2 hour session and half of its roleplaying the PCs WILL curbstomp the single fight they do.

Session length has no relevance to in-game-world events. That's why session-based bennies are a fucking shit idea. I hate bennies in general but these are even fucking worse. It literally rewards short sessions and makes the PCs overpowered. The devleopers didn't think a goddamn thing through when they made Savage Worlds, they just slapped on whatever worked in their home game without giving an ounce of thought to how other groups would use or abuse it.

And it's just plain a shitty rule. It adds you having to keep a shitton of pennies in front of you AS WELL AS a deck of cards for their gay-ass initiative system.

>>50404645
If you're playing in a group where they would literally call campaign after they blow their load, that speaks more to an issue with the group, not the system that they're attempting to game.

If I'm planning on a 4 hour campaign, I'm going to run a 4 hour campaign whether your stupid ass has bennies or not.

If you're going to blow your load on the first encounter then I'll just have to up the difficulty so that you can't just blow your load and curbstomp my encounters whether you have bennies to spend or not.

And if you're going to sit there and bitch about how I'm not letting you curbstomp the campaign then all I'm going to do is point at the door and tell you to fucking leave because you're a whiny little bitch who doesn't like to lose.

To reinterate, all of those problems that you just raised are easily fixed by not being a powergaming faggot and just playing the goddamn game like a normal person.

You bitch.

>>50404608
>Except it never makes sense.
Then it would never happen at the table. What's the fucking problem?

>>50404645
>It's not even a good rule, nor does it make any sense.
It's a cinematic rule, representing the fact that protagonists generally suck the most at the beginning of a conflict, and are the biggest badasses near the end.

That you didn't figure this out speaks volumes about how much you understand literature, let alone roleplay.

>I'm saying the best strategy is for the players to call the game session as over once they use up their bennies.
Which is again what they were arguing against. You're saying that session end should be gamed, while they are saying that any person that tries to game using session end is shit and should not be at your game table.

Your argument is essentially "this can be used by dickholes", while theirs is "stop playing with dickholes".

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>>50404645
>hating on initiative systems that never require a reroll


>>50404723
>It's a cinematic rule, representing the fact that protagonists generally suck the most at the beginning of a conflict, and are the biggest badasses near the end.
Out of curiosity, would you reverse the rule if the PCs are hopelessly outmatched?

If they are making their heroic final stand, would you apply a cummulative -1 penalty every turn?

>>50405637
>Out of curiosity, would you reverse the rule if the PCs are hopelessly outmatched?
A reverse version would actually be very good for the Lovecraftian horror genre, where failure is more likely than not.

>If they are making their heroic final stand, would you apply a cummulative -1 penalty every turn?
If the intention is that they are going to lose, then yes.

The escalation die's purpose is to ensure that the heroes are, in fact, the heroes. 13th Age is not realistic, does not try to be lethal, and in no way even implies such to be the case. You're big damn heroes, and you're likely gonna save the day... now pick up some dice and have fun with it.

That said, very dangerous creatures can manipulate the escalation die in a negative manner (or even utilize it themselves). If something reduces, uses or eliminates the escalation die, the intention is to make the players say "oh fuck, we could be boned".

Savage Worlds' flaws:

1. The damage system relies on spike damage from exploding dice. This means a lot of rounds you'll have swing / hit / no effect and swing / hit / Shaken, and then finally you'll have swing / hit / 40 damage.

2. Bennies as "don't die" currency is a bad idea.

3. Wound penalties, but that's a nitpick because I hate death spirals.

4. Agility is the best stat, melee characters get somewhat gimped due to MAD.

Overall, it's pretty decent for a rules-medium RPG. It has fewer issues than D&D, that's for sure.

>>50385435

Min maxing isnt bad except in 3.PF if you don't minmax or have good system mastery you can and will fall into trap options, some of which are entirely useless. Fantasycraft allows a loy of minmaxing, but it tries to give enough unique and good options that even if you just pick the first ones that jump out at you, you can play a character that fills a unique roll or has a useful gimmick at the very least. In PF you can pick martial stuff and somehow end up less efficient at hitting and tanking things than a 90lb wizard who just hits things as a hobby when he's not summoning dicks.

"Pathfinder Society requires you to own physical (or PDF with digital receipts) copies of any and all rule books and errata that you use to build your character."

This is pretty much the biggest bullshit to me. If you want to participate in any PUGs at cons or FLGS drop-in-drop-out games, Paizo is Super Mega Jew Hitler.

Also I used a pregen one year, kept the sheet with me, and was told I can't use it anywhere else since I didn't own the Rulebook.

>You cannot use a pregen sheet that is literally for free download on the website.

>>50407666

The pregen sheet is bullshit, but in general I think it makes sense. The alternative is letting dudes walk in off the street with weird-ass characters, and when you challenge them on it, they can just say "Oh I left my copy of [obscure book you've never heard of] at home! If you don't have a copy you'll just have to let it go, then, huh?" And then you have to go around bugging other groups to see if anybody has a copy of that book, disrupting everything, or just let him get away with likely shenanigans because the rules say he doesn't need the book, right?

Far less arguments will ensue if players are required to be able to bust out the book in question and back up whatever cheese is on their sheet when a GM calls them on it.

>>50408434

The pregen sheet THING is bullshit, I meant to say.

>>50408434
No, I meant the fact that you can't make characters and print out relevant rule sheets.

I've ran campaigns where people could print the 5-10 relevant pages to their skills/feats/class whatever instead of carrying the book, or for me to have so I could reference it.

That's what's bullshit.

>If you didn't buy the book you can't use the content.
>No your friend can't have bought the book for you to use.
>Show us your digital signature for proof of purchase on that PDF

>>50408931

Yeah, that's some bullshit right there. I can maybe see ruling out self-printed stuff since photoshop is a thing and all, but as long as you can reasonably show me a rule book that doesn't appear to have been tampered with, and contains the relevant rules you used for you character, why the fuck should I care who paid for it?

>>50409039
I literally had been handed the sheets of photocopies FROM PAIZO PATHFINDER SOCIETY and they said no go.

PFS is fucking dumb.

>>50406240
No, most of the time a rifle shot will take out an unarmored human (9 average damage is a "raise" over 5 toughness). But with higher toughness monsters, you are correct. Larger / tougher creatures should have had more wounds, so that they could be "worn down" while mooks should've been one-shotted.

Melee is far from the god stat combat wise. I usually dump agility to improve Strength for melee characters, or spirit / vigor for ranged characters. It's 2 extra skill points anyway. Actually, if you are focused on being a good shooter, higher Agility can actually help your OTHER skills more.... so being more agile means you are better at computers? It's kinda weird.

Ex: I have 15 skill points and want shooting d12. With a d8 agility this will cost me 7 points. With a d6 agility this will cost me 8 points. So I basically just gave myself an extra skill point to spend. But I can't spend that on shooting. My high agility isn't helping me there. In fact I can spend that extra skill point somewhere else. Like computers. So Agility helps my Knowledge (computers)

I understand that I am thinking about it the wrong way but it just feels weird to me and I can't shake the feeling even though I know it's incorrect.

The rest of what you said is true.

>>50405637
D&D initiative system requires a reroll like twice per campaign.

Also initiative as a mechanic is outdated.

>>50404723
No, faggot, my argument is that the best game strategy encourages metagaming to the max.

> It's a cinematic rule, representing the fact that protagonists generally suck the most at the beginning of a conflict, and are the biggest badasses near the end.

You are post-rationalizing a shitty design decision. You are making yourself look like an idiot. If you say this to the SW devs they'll be like "yeah... yeah, sure, heh heh... that's totally how we intended it to work, yep."

Fucking retard.

>Then it would never happen at the table. What's the fucking problem?

Except it would because most DMs these days are of the "NAT 20 DOES ANYTHING XD XD" variety of autism, as I described in my fucking post that you just replied to, did you even fucking read it?

>>50404706
>To reinterate, all of those problems that you just raised are easily fixed by not being a powergaming faggot and just playing the goddamn game like a normal person.
>playing the game like a normal person

You mean purposely gimping yourself and ignoring the best strategy?

This is no different than the 15 minute adventuring day that caused so many problems in D&D (and still does).

Stop making excuses for a shitty, badly implemented mechanic. Your SWIDF tactics are pathetically transparent.

>>50412890
>best game strategy in ttrpg
>not utilised by dickholes

Yeah, right. Bet you spend more time rules-lawyering and browsing through shitty 3rd-party books than playing.

>>50412890
See this is why nobody invites you to parties.

>>50412910
>>50412890
So is savage worlds the only game that does anything "per session" now?

You're literally saying the right way to sit down and have a social experience amount friends is to sit down. Make the same roll 4 times taking the highest result, and going home.

I have been thinking. Was Pathfinder Beginner Box a Paizo's way of admitting that their core game sucks?

BB contains only a handful of spells and feats, none which break the game. Also their pride and joy CMD/CMB is gone because there are no combat maneuvers. There is also less crunch overall (no AoO, Encumbrance, etc.)

Beginner Box might be the one Paizo product that is actually decent.

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>>50399067
What the fuck is your point?

>>50408931
This is stupid, I have never seen any RPG group where EVERY player directly owned all the material they need

Typically only one or two people in the group own the books and everyone else uses those copies

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I swear to God half these posts here imply anon plays with the most toxic, min-maxing, rules literate players in the universe. Just because a rule could theoretically be used to exploit the system does not mean the entire game is bad. It means you have to play with people who aren't so worthless they feel they have to blatantly min-max and piss of all the other players and/or a GM who is a half decent human being.

> Meta-Knight is so bullshit he has an unblockable attack and its why I never play Smash Bros
> no I have not considered playing with people who do not insist on playing meta-knight and spamming that one attack for the full game
> why do you ask?

>>50415616
No, he's just a shitty virt impersonator spouting some of the same memes without actually understanding why or how virt spouts the memes.

Chances are, if people had not given him (you)'s, then he'd have gotten bored after the 5th post and went to another thread.

>>50399067

Not an argument.

>>50415681
>without actually understanding why or how virt spouts the memes

I don't think Virt understands why he spouts the memes. He's a sad little man.

>>50407666
They don't allow PRD?!

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>>50415616
Yeah but if the game has a clear 'I win button' that prevent you from pressing it is not wanting to be 'that guy' you don't really have that much of a game.

I mean a soon as you figured out how to win at connect four at 12 it stopped been fun.

>>50416550
you're the kind of person who kills an entire village in d&d and asks how much xp and loot you get aren't you?

>>50416711
No but I have a plan on how to kill every motherfucker I meet.

>>50416741
I'm just saying small villages are the best way to level up, can't even fight back, they just take time, which is something you functionally have an unlimited supply of.

Just pop in as a wizard, burn all of your spells, run, sleep, return, repeat until godhood.