>Elves are really, really good archers >Dwarves are really,

>>50381583
>By that point mining is starting to get mechanized
You forgot "Dwarves are really, really good engineers."

>>50381583
Why exactly are elves good archers ?
Why exactly are dwarves good miners ?

Take the traits that make good at that and apply it to modern tools.

>>50381603
>Why exactly are elves good archers ?
they're gay and like elegant weapons because they're pretty and high-class rather than for their actual combat utility. which is to say in the modern era they would be a race of mallninjas

Dwarves are engineers and elves are good at archery for the same reason they'd be good at guns. Also, both are good for more than that.

>>50381621
Or it's because they have a Dex bonus.

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>>50381621
>Mar Blart: Mall Cop

Archery prowess is a function of arm strength, visual acuity, practice and coordination.

Mining acumen is all about structural engineering, mathematical precision, endurance and geology chops.

None of these are traits that will ever become useless or undesirable.

>>50381621
Go home OP, you're drunk. Considering that swords and other medieval weapons are manly and guns are cowardly and gay it would make them probably the best modern snipers.

>>50381603
>>50381621
>>50381583
You know that elves are often also associated with swords and magic, right? And they are not just good with bows, they have great senses and hand-eye coordination, which is alsi great for other ranged weapons.

Once gun powder becomes prevelant individual skill and mechanical precision mean almost nothing compared to sheer numbers. Humans who breed 3-10 times as fast as either race will simply zerg rush them with peasants with muskets.

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>>50381603
>Elves are great snipers
>The governments of the world are all terrified by their ability to eliminate their leaders from extreme ranges

>>50381719
>All speeches are delivered from the backs of armored Popemobiles which occasionally drive back and forth across the stage just to be safe

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>>50381723
>Popemobiles driving back and forth
>Not being H-HAYAI enough to dodge elf bullets
Are you OSOI! or something?

>>50381583
You could make a really cheap spy satellite by strapping an elf to a kite.

>>50381583

Dwarves basically end up becoming Naavies.
Elves become gypsies or jews, all watchmakers and in the entertainment industry.

>>50381637
>Marcille stars in: kimg of queens.
FUND IT!

>>50381583
Dwarves would be the ones to mechanize mining before anyone else.

>>50381744
>the leader of the up and coming aggressive empire has speeches out in the open
>he straight up stops elven bullets with pure strength

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>>50382022
>Kaiser Wilhelm's hatred and inferiority complex are so strong, they physically affect the world
I want to run this campaign. Or play it, I don't even care.

>>50381603
I didn't know I wanted to see elves, dwarves, orcs, arch-demons, gnomes, and dragons at an unemployment line.

fantasy 1800s
Elves: craftsmen, artists, sharpshooters
Dwarves: engineers, architects, artillery crew

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>>50381583
Where did the nonhumans touch you OP?
Was it your little ballsies?
Did they laugh afterwards because they were hard to find?

>>50381703
>Like Russia vs the White Death, am I right?
>Zerg rushing totes beat him.

>>50381583
dwarves are good at machines and being engineers
elves are fucked though.

>>50382171
fucking psions.

>>50382303
Literally and figuratively fucked. They'll be reduced to being courtesans and hired help.

>>50382278
Psst... Finland lost. They ended up ceding more than Russia originally demanded from them.

>>50382303
>elves are fucked though

>+ INT is not useful
>magic is not useful
>+ DEX is not useful
Well, DEX is a bit harder, but combined with their good looks they should find all kinds of jobs in the entertainment industry.

>>50381583
>He thinks elves wouldn't just become proficient at using fire-arms

Ootko edes tosissas?

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>>50382414
>Snow elf forgets to add the picture

Well i did say "become proficient at using guns" not "become good at shitposting".

Realistically they would just get whatever tech the best society had.

Thats the thing, good tech is only better if you can keep it out of the hands of people

>>50382278
Daily reminder that he took a bullet to the face and the USSR won the war in the end.

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>>50381583

Turns out that a facility with high precision craftsmanship, excellent eyesight, and an inherent gift with long range shooting can have applications other than bows.

>>50382355
>>50382947
Now have an army of White Deaths.

If humanity still wants to kill the elves as they climb over literal mountains of their fallen comrads, GoT style, props up to them.
More then likely, Humanity with just set fire to the forest, build a wall and pretend the world beyond no longer exists.

>>50381583

Did humans suddenly become useless because their ability to domesticate animals has become redundant with mechanization?

>>50385016
Yes.

>>50381583
you didn't think this post through, did you.

>>50381583
This is utterly stupid. It's like looking at humans in the neolithic era and determining what they can do based purely off of what they are capable of at that time.

I'm often baffled by the desire of /tg/ to fellate humans in fictional settings, as if many players somehow honestly feel threatend by the existence of fictional entities which are not human. Not all, but many.

>>50386724
I played with a legit HFYfag. It was an awkward, yet entertaining experience.

>>50385016
Humans have always been useless. We're completely dependent on our skills, which means that every revolution or shift in economy leaves millions unemployed and unemployable because they invested into skill that are now a noob trap.

In theory all the archery the Elves would do in large scale combat would be volley fire, which doesn't actually require precise accuracy, just hitting a certain required distance marker when required, and enough discipline to fire in a volley.

So presumably beyond small scale fights the reason elves are good archers is their discipline and excessive training. So I imagine if Elves advanced to the era where warfare was ranks of pikemen and musketmen they'd be ridiculously effective. They'd be able to reload and fire in an incredibly short span of time.

And another person mentioned they like really well made stuff. So assuming they actually took advantage of improving technology and made muskets and guns, they'd have the best ones you could get, probably better than Dwarf versions.

>>50381583
>By that point mining is starting to get mechanized
Which Dwarves would liely get involved with
>massed fire infantry tactics combined with artillery means accuracy becomes a moot point and even then there are rifles that surpass the bow in both power and accuracy.
Which Elves would probably be using, and would be prized as snipers with. Seriously I don't think you put much thought into this.

>>50386874
>>50386978
>OP clearly states it's only bows or mining
>Faggots keep inventing other things they SHOULD be good at

It doesn't work like that. If you put all points in bow mastery, don't be mad when your faggy specialization doesn't work anymore.

>>50387017
Realy life doesn't have 'specialization' points. Elves and Dwarves are in most settings consistently good craftsmen of the technological level of the period, skilled warriors, possess disciplined armies.

These are all traits which have an impact and carry over as time and technology advances.

The argument OP and you are advancing would mean that historians would be incapable of explaining how we use to have Greek City States but then later had a gunpowder using Ottoman Empire.

Looking at a slice of time and determining the capabilities of the individuals at that time in no way determines the net-capability they have throughout all time periods.

>>50387017
This is just stupid. Then Fantasy humans are never going to do well either cause, newsflash, they don't have artillery either and they don't have mechanized mining.

Your literally saying cause Elves and Dwarves don't have a thing they're somehow bad despite no-one in the settings having those things anyway.

>>50381703
That worked for the somalis in Mogadishu didn't it? Wait, no. They got slaughtered by a dramatically smaller but more skilled opposing force.

1:8 casualty ratio despite a 25:1 numbers advantage.

>>50381583
You're assuming stasis. You're also somehow isolating two skill sets from all context. This is just dumb.

This would be akin to if I said humans in the stone age were; 'good at making fire' and 'flint weapons' and then asked; but does this mean they will become pointless because in the future we will use electric lights and automatic weapons?

>>50381703
Seriously? You think numbers are the only thing that matters in gunpowder based warfare?

>>50387017
>It doesn't work like that.
WTF are you even blathering about, you idiot? Are you suggesting that because the race comes with bow proficiency, elves just have a genetic predisposition for bows? It says in these rulebooks that the racial traits are a mix of nature and cultural influences, so there's no reason that elves should go "Oh, there's guns now? Time to up and DIE because I'm incapable of using any ranged weapon without a string!"

>>50387033
>Realy life doesn't have 'specialization' points.
It does tho, try repairing a spaceship when you only have knowledge about fine electronics.

>The argument OP and you are advancing would mean that historians would be incapable of explaining how we use to have Greek City States but then later had a gunpowder using Ottoman Empire.
We did it because we're humans. We're versatile, adaptable race. Even in Tolkien elves and dwarves' greatest achievements were in the past, which implies they can't advance the same as we can.

>Looking at a slice of time and determining the capabilities of the individuals at that time in no way determines the net-capability they have throughout all time periods.
Except it does, you idiot. As i said before, humans are THE advancing race. Other fantasy races should be static, reflecting different periods of advancement, with humanity moving forward and dealing with emerging races.

>>50387067
yes, exactly.

see, >>50387079

Fantasy is a deal of Past versus Future and other fantasy races represent Past.

>>50387090
>other fantasy races represent Past.
[citation needed]

>>50387079
Now you're literally just setting your own argument and insisting anyone who doesn't hold your view is incorrect.

Dwarves and Elves have never been definied as races which 'cannot advance'. Indeed within Tolkein itself both races are never inferior in their level of technology to humans.

You're creating for yourself the belief that 'only humans are permitted to advance' and then stating this is an objective fact of all fantasy setting when it is simply not.

Not to mention the obvious logical error of stating a group 'cannot advance' despite them already existing within a certain degree of advancement.

>>50387090
Dude you're just making this up. Nowhere has it been written that all fantasy races represent Past and humans the future, you're literally just making this up.

>>50381583
>Elves are really, really good archers
>this, somehow, means they're completely useless at everything else

No, it just means you're an idiot.

>>50387090
Are you literally saying the entire genre of fantasy is the exact same thematic confrontation every time?

>>50381664
>guns are cowardly and gay
What's it like being 15?

>>50386775
I can imagine. I almost wish I knew someone like that just so I can experience it myself, but only almost.

I'm always just shocked at the degree of insecurity that must exist for someone to feel so threatened by a fictional entity.

>>50387079

>Even in Tolkien elves and dwarves' greatest achievements were in the past

So were humans. Numanor was a very long time ago and humans are a lot worse than they were back in those days.

>>50387098
>>50387101
I see no faults in my argument. They can advance, and in fact advance from neolithic period, but only to certain periods.

Elves advance up to 15th century.
Dwarves advance up to pre-industrial age.
Orcs advance to industrial.
Kobolds advance to post-industrial

But in the end, when fantasy setting's people go into space it will all be humans.

>>50387126
Good point. In many fantasy settings there was usually a 'High Human' civilization of the past which was superior to the current one as well.

>>50387129
No it won't. As in...literally on what are you basing that argument? You're own feelings? Because there doesn't seem to be a shred of actual rational proof for your position, you just seem to be blurbing out an oddly specific scenario and insisting it is the reality.

>>50387129
What I want to know is where is the great book of Fantasy Setting cannon this anon apparently has access to?

Cause if there isn't then everything he's saying is just bullshit he's pulling out his ass.

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>>50387129
>They can advance, and in fact advance from neolithic period, but only to certain periods.
>Elves advance up to 15th century.
>Dwarves advance up to pre-industrial age.
>Orcs advance to industrial.
>Kobolds advance to post-industrial
Where the hell are you getting all this from? Nothing you're saying is a constant across all settings, and moreover, it's not supported by Tolkien's work at all, or the popular game systems, so why did you start replying to people with nonsense about "If you put all points in bow mastery, don't be mad when your faggy specialization doesn't work anymore"? You just keep making less and less sense.

>>50387144
>>50387126
>>50387117
>>50387105
Do you guys have legit autism or are you not able to understand allegory?

I know shit fantasy like Shadowrun exists when they let other races advance to humans' level. It's also notoriously stupid and reduces other races to "humans with pointy ears". Fantasy like that isn't fantasy. it's ghetto sci-fi that puts author's masturbatory "worldbuilding" nobody cares about before symbolism and thematic consistency (seriously, elves wearing cyberimplants?).

True fantasy is about humans Changing the world. You don't just put in other races to be "there", every one of them should symbolize something. Elves are symbols of glory of the past, Dwarves are symbols of glory undone by their own folly, Orcs are symbol of brutality of an industrial age and over-consumption that eventually eats itself. Humans are viewpoint of fantasy, travelling and learning new things and becoming wiser.

>>50387160
It was just a single example. You could switch races around and it would still make sense.

Fantasy as a genre (barring stupid schlock novels) is first a foremost exploration of human nature and flaws, represented as other races.

>>50387185

Then why is it that Numanor is fallen glory that humans will never reclaim in tolkien?

>>50387129
This posters argument is no longer sustainable, as these posters
>>50387160
>>50387149
>>50387144
have proven him wrong. Thus it is decreed that this poster >>50387129
is silly and sleeps with a bundle of sticks.

>>50387201
A cautionary example about pride. Seeing other humans fall serves as an example that culture that never hallenges itself can die out as easily as other fantasy races. In a fashion, numenorans became "human-elves".

>>50382278
His death toll was probably exagarated.
The Soviets did literally everything wrong.
Finland still lost the war and more area than Russia demanded originally.

>>50387049
>niggers high out of their mind, no communication and coordination and zero training beyond point this way and press the trigger
Gee no wonder they lost.

Both are horrible examples why zerg rushes don't work.

>>50387216

And why is it that the viewpoint character in Tolkien isn't a human but halflings then if this is all about humans as the viewpoints of fantasy?

>>50387221
>Finland still lost the war and more area than Russia demanded originally.
Meanwhile, Baltics gave in to the demands and lost their independence completely.

>>50387203
>i'll sperg out at a single example, then claim all he posts is that!

Your mother thought you would be better than this, anon.

>>50387198
>You could switch races around and it would still make sense
It doesn't make any sense no matter how you slice it. Different advancement speeds, I can buy. A conservative or reactionary mindset holding a culture back from accepting modern technology or norms, sure, for a while. But what you're proposing is that there is some magical force holding a nonhuman group back from making or USING any advancements beyond a certain point, which is not only stupid lore as far as I can tell, I've never even seen this used or proposed.

>>50381583
>humans are 90% farmers
Does it mean in modern era humans would be obsolete if farming becomes mechanised?

>>50387226
Wrong. Aragorn and Boromir are as much of main characters as halflings are.

Tolkien's choice of halflings was a trapping of choosing a "fairy tale" approach to his work. And in the end, when all was said and done, where did halflings return? To their secluded village, to be isolated from further progress. halflings are the last mystical race to stand because they are most like humans, but they are not humans, and thus are doomes exactly the same others are.

>>50387236
It's not "magical force" it's basic good writing. if these races wer to grow to humans' level, what would they be? Humans with pointy ears. It's not about worldbuilding, worldbuilding is detrimental to building a good fantasy story.

Also i have no words. How could you post
>is that there is some magical force holding a nonhuman group back from making or USING any advancements beyond a certain point, which is not only stupid lore as far as I can tell, I've never even seen this used or proposed.
when LITERALLY IN THE SAME POST EARLIER YOU WROTE
>Different advancement speeds, I can buy. A conservative or reactionary mindset holding a culture back from accepting modern technology or norms, sure, for a while.

First you write a "justification" then you reject it? What are you on? Like okay, if you're the kind of turboautist who NEEDS setting be justified, you can use this. But don't contradict yourself.

>>50387265

The entire story hinges on the hobbits. Aragorn and Boromir are important but no more than Gimli and Legolas. In the end it's the devotion of Samwise Gamgee, the obsession of Gollum and the compassion of Frodo that is the core of it.

>>50387290
>if these races wer to grow to humans' level, what would they be?

What about races in fantasy that surpass humans?

>>50387290
>It's not "magical force" it's basic good writing. if these races wer to grow to humans' level, what would they be? Humans with pointy ears.
No, they would still be in societal and racial niches, with a different historical context.
>First you write a "justification" then you reject it? What are you on? Like okay, if you're the kind of turboautist who NEEDS setting be justified, you can use this. But don't contradict yourself.
Uh, I didn't contradict myself? Calm down dude. I think you're confusing "different advancement speeds" with "hard stops on how far they can advance", or you're confusing "for a while" with "permanently, until it destroys them"

>>50387300
See, you're starting to understand. Hobbits are allegory too, and in the end the reward for them is returning to peaceful life. They're race that desires nothing but peace and comfort and in the end they will become history too.
>>50387304
Humans would eventually surpass them too.

>>50387314
>No, they would still be in societal and racial niches, with a different historical context.
No, they wouldn't exist because there would be no need of them.
>Uh, I didn't contradict myself? Calm down dude. I think you're confusing "different advancement speeds" with "hard stops on how far they can advance", or you're confusing "for a while" with "permanently, until it destroys them"
Call it as you want, but it should be a hard stop, lest they become just "humans with Pointy ears".

>>50387337

>See, you're starting to understand. Hobbits are allegory too, and in the end the reward for them is returning to peaceful life. They're race that desires nothing but peace and comfort and in the end they will become history too.

Except you said that humans are the viewpoint...but humans are not remotely the most important OR the most common viewpoint characters in it.

>Humans would eventually surpass them too.

Why? Humans never surpassed the wonders of the age of the elves.

>>50387203
Yeah...I have to agree, he's been proven decisively wrong already cause he uses batshit examples.

>>50387354
You do realize that since we humans are creating these fictional entities there's no way for them not, to an extent, to be humans with pointy ears?

Your argument is ridiculous. Within Tolkein alone humans never even match the Elves, and are never stated too.

Not to mention Halflings aren't doomed. This just sounds like you're projecting weird racial masturbatory fantasies into Tolkein's works.

>>50387354
>No, they wouldn't exist because there would be no need of them.
Things cling to existence if they can survive. They don't care if you need them or not. And if you mean from a narrative perspective, having things like Elves and dwarves in a fantasy setting is part of the fantasy, it adds variety.
>Call it as you want, but it should be a hard stop, lest they become just "humans with Pointy ears".
Can you at least tell me, are you OP, or are you someone else that latched on with a slightly different argument? I mean, what comment did you actually start in on this conversation?

>>50387375
>And if you mean from a narrative perspective, having things like Elves and dwarves in a fantasy setting is part of the fantasy, it adds variety.
If you're using races for just "variety" i don't envy your Players.

>>50387337
But hobbiton got turned into an industrial hellhole annd the hobbits thrived in that after Frodo buggered off. Didn't you read the authors notes?

>>50387354
This isn't even about the OP's question anymore. This seems to now be about one anon stating his super-specific idea of what Fantasy as a whole is and arguing that anyone who is wrong with him is objectively wrong.

This whole scenario is ridiculous.

>>50387385
If you only use Fantasy Races as 'allegories' I don't envy your players.

>>50387374
>alone
They don't need to be alone. The ones who sided against Melkor got quite a boost.

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>>50382435
>>50382414
well, we have a prove that snowelven make good snipers at least

>>50387385
>If you're using races for just "variety" i don't envy your Players.
And I have no Idea what you're using fantasy races for. Sounds like >>50387402 which seems really tedious to play. Also, you ignored the second part of my statement. Are you OP, and if not, what point did you start inserting your weird-ass argument?

>>50387402
I actually run mostly low fantasy. It's more interesting and i admit i'm not a good enough writer to explore the themes of Fantasy over a long campaign.

>>50387395
It's not super specific. it's Tolkien and Lewis, two FATHERS of fantasy. Stuff like forgotten realms is not "fantasy", it's ghetto sci-fi with superhero themes.

>>50387414
It's not weird-ass, but i responded to >>50387033

>>50387203
Agreed. Honestly, his arguments seem to stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of Tolkien's lore that isn't even relevant to the thread topic, which was about a campaign setting.

>>50387417
Dude Tokein sure as hell never said humans were the only race that can develop. You're just lying now.

>>50387417
Not that anon, but it IS super-specific. This probably all came from you getting a revelation of some sort while thinking about the fantasy races.

But instead of it being enlightening, we are just being blinded by your incandescent hubris and over-zealousness.

You are not contributing to a discussion. You never even wanted discussion. You had a strong opinion and wanted to force it down other people's throats because you think you are objectively right.

You know, when LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE is saying you're wrong, usually it is not about you being enlightened and the others not being, it's that you're delusional about your argument's objective value.

>>50387417
You've boiled down the entire vast genre of Fantasy just to Tolkein and Lewis. Okay.

I mean, they're good, but they don't literally constitute the entire genre. Like not at all.

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>>50387417
At least you're not using ellipses any more, anon!

>>50387490
>>50387492
Mostly it's about /tg/ preferring dumb superhero fantasy to something that has actual literary value. People who like to play elves and dwarves are attracted to shallow archetypes they represent.

>>50387492
Not just them, but good fantasy novels either don't use other races if there's no need for them or use them as a device to explore the humanity.

>>50381583
>Elves will become the special forces and be in JSOCS as the marksmen.
>Dwarves will be the engineers, architects and industrial/weapons/rocket scientists.

It's about why they're good archers and miners.

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>>50387535
You can use them to explore humanity in other ways than to wank the superiority of humans?

Such as extremities of Curiosity, Hubris, Greed... Exploring human traits does NOT REQUIRE them to be backwards cavemen in case there is even a slight change in the development of technology.

Because it's not technological superiority that defines humanity as human, it's adaptability. And there are other ways to adapt than just simply improving technologically.

Having pressure from Curious Dwarves who make amazing technology does not mean that humans simply surpass them in technology when they hit their peak. The very nature of technology is the Law of Accelerating Returns, the more you progress, the faster you start progressing.

If the allegory is or could be somewhere else than simply "a certain technological level", why does a hard technological barrier exist?

Humans would not necessarily be able to beat Curious Dwarves from a technological perspective. Instead, they can make sociological or tactical changes that serve to nullify or disable the superior technology.

Having a hard ceiling on technological level goes against the very nature of NATURE, so your argument seems really masturbatory toward a perceived superiority of humans.

>pic related

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>>50387185
it depend on the setting

and on what the author want to tell with its story
in tolkien for example, the elves are angels expy that must go back to heaven to leave the human get shit done by themselves
dwarves are a bit harder to interpret, i don't really know myself

but you shouldn't really limit yourself just because you think fantasy should be this way or another
have embodiment of the nature spirit critters

>>50387265
that is because the world of middle earth is supposed to be past modern earth, and be the source of old myths and folktales
since we don't see elves and dwarves today, he had to find a reason why so
but that is just how tolkien buid is world, it's fantasy you should be doing whatever you find interesting

>>50387627
It's not "perceived" superiority. Fiction ultimately is made by humans, for humans. Anything that doesn't feature humans as protagonists is just apologetic tract written by people who hate themselves so much they feel the need to create fictional races better than them.
>>50387638
>it depend on the setting
ah, /tg/'s favorite non-answer

Okay, okay, you CAN do what you want, just don't call it fantasy. Call it "medieval superhero comics". maybe one day you will grow to appreciate better things than "so a human, an elf and a dwarf walk into a tavern..."

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>>50381583

>technology and socities advance
>elves hopelessly outmatch humans because they are more intelligent, skilled and can combine technology with magic
>dwarves hopelessly outmatch humans because of their unmatched engineering and monopoly on several important resources
>humans end up in work or death camps of both races

>>50387230
Yeah but Soviets never demanded that Finland give up independence. The fact is that Finland would have been better off if we had just folded to their demands right off the bat.

>>50387702
>the much more populous humans rise up and slaughter the parasitic overlord classes

>>50387682
But not every fantasy needs to BE ABOUT human superiority, no?

There is as much to be explored in a situation where humans are in an inferior position, is there not?

Humans are resilient and make for good underdogs. It's the tenacity and adaptability that makes us worthwhile in the settings, by large. But that doesn't mean that the humans should be superior in 100% of a case. That just makes them thinly veiled sue people rather than actual humans.

Each race should have their unique traits, and thus have their own skillsets that makes them useful in certain situations.

I don't understand how elves would have some hard-coded "Bows +3" skill embedded to their being. That just seems silly, to be honest. It's not like Bows are somehow integral to Elven existence other than in the sense of image, like curved swords. But those are just that, images, much like humans wearing broadswords and donning plate armor.

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>>50387728
>B-But there's more of us
So the humans are the third worlders of the setting? So who's going to build The Wall and make the humans pay for it, the dwarves or the elves?

>>50387758
>So who's going to build The Wall and make the humans pay for it, the dwarves or the elves?
Dwarves. Elves will be the ones planning drone strikes on select radical human targets.

>>50387765
>Humans are a peaceful race
I could see elves pulling this shit.

>>50381583

In a modern era elves would essentially be gypsies.

>>50387788
>humans have a religion of peace
>humans dindu nothin
Yep, definitely seeing the parallels.

>>50387810

#nobordersnoraces #humanswelcome

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>>50387838
Considering /tg/'s motto is "it's not rape if it's an elf", we'd probably see some Human-on-Elf Cologne shit too. With elves denying that it was humans post facto lest it "incites hatred".

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>>50381583
>his setting doesn't have dwarves with mass tank and artillery spam
>his setting doesn't have covert ops assassin elves

>>50387838
>>50387868
>>50387810
>>50387788
Never forget 9/11, countless elven lives were lost when they drove that haycart into the core of the wizard towers!

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>>50382171
>you'll never play a campaign with your mate Williem crushing anglos with his mind

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>>50387728
>>50387758
>>50387765
>>50387788
>>50387810
>>50387838
>the oppressed rising up and slaughtering the imperialist oppressors now immediately equals rapefugees
I fucking hate nu/pol/

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>>50387942
So you admit that elves are superior, eh? Good job exposing your own hypocrisy!

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>>50387960
How is that in any way related to my post?

>>50387119
He was explaining to the OP on their own level.

>>50387060
Not the only thing, but overcoming a 10x number advantage would require a very impressive list of qualitative advantages.

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>>50387060
>>50387985
Ayo, you was sayin we wuz tactical geniusses and sheit?

>>50387996
What are you trying to show?

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>>50381637
But when will he fall in love?

>World divided up by elfen led autocracies or cosmopolitan dwarven cities
>Human are second class citizens at best or slaves at worst
>A charismatic young revolutionary begins preaching global human revolution


Now I envision a dark magic dungeon where dwarven overlords send a single dangerous human radical via teleportation into elven lands to forment rebellion.

>>50382022
>>50382171
>onlookers said that the archduke Franz Ferdinand was shot five times in the chest
>this was enough to send him into a wrathful rampage
>he had to be put down by his own soldiers to prevent the total destruction of Sarajevo

>>50388004
That discipline and better equipment and all that jazz don't mean shit when your opponent can easily cope with way hogher loses than you
Mostly I'm just funposting though

>Elves become the elite/.01% what have you
>Dwarves become Engineers of varying sorts and skilled craftsmen
>Humies mostly get menial jobs and are considered scum

Feels bad man.

>>50388026
War is a non-deterministic game anyway. There are way too many potential bottlenecks that can decide the outcome.

Good to know we agree that numerical advantage becomes increasingly difficult to overcome.

What's with all the elf/dwarf wankery in this thread.
This is HFY tier

>>50381583

Nah.
I also avoid this trope.

Elves are talented mages and martial artists.

Dwarves are just generally talented researches and engineers.

Both have excellent artisans due to longer lifespans and thus more knowledge being passed on.

>>50388063
>Both have excellent artisans due to longer lifespans and thus more knowledge being passed on.
That's debatable at best. The same people staying in charge for a long time usually doesn't do well for progression.

>>50381603
I was thinking on his yesterday and realized that the reason we humans are good at throwing and catching (relatively) is that our brains are good at projecting object location and movement. We don't his with our imagination. (It's science, bros.) It stands to reason that elf brains would be fucking fantastic at imagination, which also fits the rest of their typical culture. Not only do they get to woo all the batches with poetry and pretty art, they can predict the path of an arrow even in wind, rain or the fucking dark. Maybe even predict the path of a shield down a staircase for some murder surfing.

Dwarves I figured out a long time ago. Their brains are wired for numbers and math. They developed geometry early and that's how they can make those big mines.

Thus, as time progresses, dorfs are kick ass accountants and bankers for a long time and top notch engineers forever. Meanwhile, elves, with their pretty faces and imaginative solutions to tomorrows problems are the kings of corporate business.

>>50388075
Contrary to what you believe not all skills can be passed on through writing.
A talented instructor being able to teach for a hundred years means he's produced tonns of high quality disciples and masters.

>>50388084
Fucking autocorrect! You ruin me!

>>50388085
But it will usually lead to stagnation. Sure, those disciples will be good at reproducing what they've been taught to, but they hardly will come up with anything new. Or, if they come up with something, it probably won't get past the prototype stage due to the higher ups having their own ideals which got solidified through the centuries

>>50387535
This entire post is just bullshit.

>If you play anything that isn't human you like shallow archetypes

>>50387627
Agreed, this actually makes sense unlike most of the screeching I'm seeing here.

>>50387682
Oh, here we go, I thought that was just going to be a masturbatory racial power fantasy eventually.

>>50388102
Don't believe that it would lead to stagnation.

They would gather at colleges to present their projects.
Yes it would take more to gather fund but once you have those funds you have hundreds of people with expirience working together.

>>50387728
You seem to be labouring under a delusion if you think just because there are more humans it would automatically equate victory.

>>50388102
You are giving human atributes to elves, which might not be the case. I mean it's hard to tell even what humans would be if they lived for hundreds of years without barely any mental or physical decay. Imagine being 20yo for 200 years. And now try to think what an alien with radically different mind would do.

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>>50387971

>>50387731
Agreed 100% this actually sounds fun and enjoyable.

>>50388058
I think you're just mistaking a lack of everyone screaming "Dur Humans win always" for wank. Don't worry, its a common predicament on /tg/.

This thread is a stupid wank. You people should be ashamed of yourselves.

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>>50388131
>Don't believe that it would lead to stagnation.
But that's exactly what happens in reality when the old guard stays in charge for too long. One of the reasons France faltered so quickly when the Nazis launched Fall Gelb was because their whole doctrine was still centered around WW1 style warfare because that's what their war ministers and high command "grew up with" so to speak.
Sure, it might not be the case if they have completely alien minds, like >>50388139 points out, but that's hardly ever the case. In most works of fiction, elves and dwarves are just humans with an additional helping of pride/stubbornness which would just enforce these problems.

>>50388102
Saying 'innovation is impossible because age' is kind of stupid anon.

Even the most backwards human society managed it.

>>50388102
You're both right, the problem in our formalized hierarchy structures based on seniority is that people so get used to the dominant paradigm that nothing ever happens. But that type of structure doesn't have to be the norm, you could purposly design your power structures to reward new people and new Ideas. I also think he's also right in saying that more time to develop skills and teach those skills would probably lead to more depth. For instance I believe I recently read that many of the greatest mathematicians of eras past often shared a mentor who also was very influential in their time, passing down those knowledge and insights to the next generation of gifted people to develop their own ways of doing things.

>>50388161
You're right, but let's set the record straight here: Maginot did NOTHING wrong.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maginot_Line#Purposes
The Maginot Line succeeded in all purposes for which it was built, most notably intentionally redirecting Germany's attack into Belgium. The problem lied with the military that was in the Ardennes and in Belgium, which still used static WW1 strategies and emphasized heavy and slow tanks for infantry support over lighter, faster ones for more independent/encircling action.

Maginot did NOTHING wrong.

>>50381583
>Does this mean that in any setting that advances past the early modern era, elves and dwarves are useless?

I thought that was standard in most generic fantasy settings, going back to Tolkien? Humans are the new hotness, the older races are on their way out. Admittedly for somewhat different reasons in Tolkien, but the idea remains: the future belongs to the humans, the elves and dwarves are doomed to die out.

>>50388185
But even those plans were flawed.
>To cover the mobilisation of the French Army (which took between two and three weeks)
Take this for example. Paris fell within a month and that was after they had almost a year to mobilize and get everyone on track. A big static defense system like that just doesn't work against an enemy making full use of mobile warfare

>>50381583
>Elves are really, really good shooters
>Dwarves are really, really good engineers

You didn't think this through.

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>>50388102
>But it will usually lead to stagnation

>Yeah I'm really digging this new human "art"
Said no elf ever.

>>50388197
Read more Michael Moorcock. This is inverted in several of his series - humans being a decaying, ancient, dying society succeeded by elf-like beings. It's part of a greater cycle of things.

>>50388240
Elves were right, modern art was a mistake

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>>50388240
I can really imagine elves visiting a modern art museum and being incredibly condescending about it.
>What is this, is this what humans think art looks like?
>How cute, my little Thorandiel made something that looks just like this earlier today
>What's that stain in the top right? Is it supposed to symbolize the beastly nature of humanity?
>I think that's just a stain...
And then they congratulate the human artist on his work in a really, really condescending way. As if they're talking to a mentally challenged child who managed to tie his shoelaces in one go.

>>50388242
>moorcock

Tried, first book bored me to tears.

Isn't the cocaine snorting magical sword wielding hair metal protagonist an elf from a decaying, ancient, dead elven society himself, which was in turn succeeded by said humans?

Playing the 'everything is a circle!' card doesn't really exempt you.

>>50388275
This is exactly how all modern "artists" should be treated.

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>>50381583
Say that to my face motherfucker.

>>50388360
Melnibone is a human realm, just very, very old and decadent. Plus it's a wizard society.
But they are still humans.

>massed fire infantry tactics combined with artillery means accuracy becomes a moot point

I was Forward Observer, being accurate with artillery stilll requires human direction and skill, elves would excel at this.

Mining still requires personal direction and skill, as well as engineering, dwarves would be good at that.

>>50388438
This

This thread is full of sissyboy elf fuckers and female beard enthusiasts.

>>50390007
So's your mother.

>>50388084

Good old dwarven Jews.

>>50390041
Ebin

>>50381621
>memeist faggot has shitty logic
More news at 11.

>>50381583
No.
Elves will learn to shoot. Dwarves will still have their stone sense, and be the best mechanics and the best at underground stuff.

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>>50388084
>It stands to reason that elf brains would be fucking fantastic at imagination, which also fits the rest of their typical culture.
You just gave me the weirdest fucking feels.

>Elf-Paris, 1910
>You're a poor-ass human immigrant who can barely get a job
>A rich elf lady who has made quite a name for herself in the artistic community hires you as an aide
>You mostly run errands, clean her studio and prepare her meals when she asks you for it
>It's menial work, but the pay is better than anything a filthy human could hope for
>She's cheeky too, always sending you mixed signals, you're never sure whether she's flirting with you or ridiculing you
>One day she asks you to undress and model for her
>Her 'motivation' is that with all the other artists painting nude women, it'd be unfair not to give the male form the attention it deserves

I did not know I wanted this and I could have easily lived the rest of my life without knowing this.

>>50394310
She would take a male elf for that.

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>>50387079
> anyone who doesn't follow my arbitrary head-canon is WRONG
4chan says this a lot but you may be genuinely autistic

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>>50394472
>male elf

>>50394713
Ebin.

>>50394310
>thinking only women were painted nude
>in Paris
>in 1910

You're a special type of retarded Millennial.

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>>50381603
>dwarves are small and have high G-tolerance

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>>50394782
I'm not even going to deny that.

>>50381583
Consider evolution
> Humans have good eyesight and prehensile hands.
> Makes them really good thrower.
> Develop bows
> Humans useless?

> Humans are really good at walking for extended periods of time.
> Develop mass transit.
> Humans now useless?

Elves are not good at archery, dwarves are not good at mining. They just developed in a way that makes them inherently better at those tasks. Change those environments, and they'll adapt accordingly.

Elves have superior eye-sight and hand-eye coordination, making them expert at precision craft, scouting, spying...

Dwarves have superior endurance, both physically and mentally, so they're better employees in heavy industries, and shock troops.

This isn't rocket science.

>>50394621
Where's that image from?

>>50381583
>men are good generalists
Does this mean that in any setting that advances past the late modern era, men are useless? By that point manufacturing is starting to get fully automated, labour cost becomes a moot point and even with tasks requiring flexibility, machines outperform almost all people in power, deduction and accuracy.

>>50388275
I doubt even elven condescension and smugness could stand up to the smugness of the human modern art critic.

While the elf is looking down his nose at the artist for his lack of talent the artist is looking down his nose at the elf for being too much of a philistine to "get it".

The modern artist would see elves as representative of an outdated decadent conservative bourgeoisie.

>>50395237
Maybe the elvish art circles got the stuff men call modern- or even post modern art centuries ago?

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>>50395129
Hey now, those manufacturing jobs can be brought back to the midwest! They still exist except the Chinese are doing them!

>>50395307
Why? Post modern art is ugly, no craftmanship required, devoid of soul and spirit, has nothing but shock value, basically a money laundering scheme.

>>50395401
That's why elves have left it to the past.

Are there examples of capitalist elves?

>>50395079
it's a simpsons still edited with what appears to be the standard charlie hebdo depiction of muhammad

>>50395391

Chinese workers are cheaper than robots (for now)

but robots are cheaper than American workers

Soon we will 3-D print Construction Drones that will then assemble even bigger 3-D printers. Truly the future is marvelous

>>50395448
I, for one, welcome the fourth industrial revolution.
Let's hope we all get universal basic income rather than resorting to sucking off the rich for scraps.

>>50395482
>Let's hope we all get universal basic income rather than resorting to sucking off the rich for scraps
You know, basic income is exactly that. Instead of creating your own wealth, you are getting it from someone else, benevolently, your masters are glad to help you out.

>>50381583
>Humans are really, really good farmers
Does this mean that in any setting that advances past the early modern era, humans are useless? By that point farming is starting to get mechanized, massed farming equipment combined GMOs means farming becomes a moot point and even then there are mexicans that surpass the farmer in both cost and numbers.

I know this is a b8 thread but to assume that races don't adapt is literally retarded.

>>50394310
I didn't want that before either you evil bastard.

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>>50394890
>Humans have good eyesight

>>50381583
Elves' mastery of the arcane puts them at the forefront of magical development

Nah, nah. Think about it.

Elves would end up moving into the medicine scene the fastest, once they accepted the idea of medical technology as opposed to using magic and shit. Master surgeons and whatnot.

Dwarves are also spectacular engineers, and their dedication to mining will mean - in reference to contemporary times - that they'd be in that business even now. You still need manpower for mining, especially coal, salt, and diamonds.

>>50387017
>OP clearly states it's only bows or mining
Where the fuck did he say only?

>>50381621
>elves are AR fags

CONFIRMED FOR SCUM OF THE FUCKING EARTH REEEEEE

>>50389783

Weren't they descended from Dragons?

>>50381583
Humans live in plains, elves live in forests, dwarves live in mountains.

All their characteristics stem from being more adapted to these environments.

Elves are have acute hearing, and good eyes that can see well with very little light, and are much less likely to be taken by surprise in a forest than a dwarf or human.

Dwarves with their short gait aren't very suited for long distances, but their sure footing makes them at home in the mountains
This literally happens with humans in real life, people who live in mountainous areas tend to be shorter as tall people are more likely to fall and die

Humans are tall and vigorous, making them more adapted to hunting in the open fields and farming them.

>>50381583

>hobbits/halflings are really, really good at lazying around in holes in the earth

So basically modern-day basement dwellers

>>50381583
Accuracy was a moot point in archery in warfare because it was blocks of men fighting each other. In that regard accuracy is not that important. What is important is having the strength to use a warbow.

>>50387702
You do realize, of course.... that one of the reasons that elven and dwarven craftsmanship is superior to humans, is that humans only live like, 70 years MAX in fantasy settings, while elves live for thousands of years, and dwarves for multiple hundreds, right?

A lot of human creativity and skill gets lost because of the lower lifespan, and shorter education cycle.

>>50387712
>Yeah but Soviets never demanded that Finland give up independence.

Neither did they demand it from the Baltics. They lost their independence a year later after folding to the Soviet Union.

>>50397392
As far as animals go, yes we do. Hyper adapted predators like birds of prey have better eyesight, but we have better than average in every sense, as well as endurance, speed, and strength. Humans are the quality build fags of the natural kingdom, better than most at everything but masters of nothing. Hence the middle of the road race cliche

>>50394310
are you fucking serious? Elves making art is nothing new at all.

>>50381583
The keen eyes of the elves compared to other races leads them to suppose that just as there are things they can see that humans can't, perhaps there are things to be seen beyond even their sight. As a result, elves devote themselves to the science of optics. Elvish made telescopes and microscopes reveal the wonders of deep space and the development of germ theory. Elvish explorers sail the oceans, seeking out new lands and people.

Dwarves go one of two ways; either they adapt well to mechanisation, retaining a solid manufacturing base with a reputation for quality and reliability (The German model)or they adapt poorly, and dwarven society becomes stratified between the ex-mining caste, abandoned and left to rot on social security payments while the upper class move into finance and become obscenely wealthy, concentrated in a small enclave of the Dwarvish capital (The British Model)

>>50388140
sauce?

>>50405929
https://exhentai.org/g/984118/90adb08f07/

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>>50395401
Maybe elves are now post-post-postmodern
>You humans still do that "painting with menstruational blood" and "literally trash as art" thing? Oh please, we outgrew that phase three hundred years ago
>Now we're painting in the dadaist style, except this time we're doing it *ironically*
>Human savages

>>50381583
Elves would probably be just as good with rifles as they would be with bows. Might need to wear earplugs, but their keen sight would be a great asset.

>Elf Voltigeurs

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>>50406467
"Wow, what is that, cubism? You are like a little baby. We've already worked our way back around to French Romanticism, but this time we're nostalgic about post-realism, so it looks like we're trying to paint impressionism but instead paint photorealistically by accident!"