Any sort of meta-game transaction points system is just legitimized

>>50377197
I don't like metagame *-points either, but you're just a dick starting threads like this.

Pretty much this. Savage Worlds and its "bennies" are really the worst for this. You get 3 per session so if you run out, well, look at the time, I gotta pick up my wife's son from school. See ya all later!

It's stupid and abstract, that's the real issue. I don't mind high powered systems to baby players (such as D&D 4e) but something like Savage Worlds that forces character decisions that are linked to the metagame rather than in-world events, is just fucking stupid.

>>50377229
Do you consider stuff like Chill tokens in Chill, and Force tokens in FFG Star Wars, where said meta-game points transition between states of usability and looming detriment in a way that stays between sessions, acceptable then?

>>50377273
>do you like these retarded shits then?
kek

>>50377197

Agreed. Hit points are the same way.

>>50377273
They are still metagame bullshit but if they at least have a downside to them they can be an interesting mechanic.

Savage Worlds bennies are just insurance against bad balance though.

I don't know much how Force tokens work in FFG Star Wars, though.

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Wat if it's to help represent that the PCs are simply luckier than ordinary folk, either through fate or divine favor?

Or, something like the Marvel heroes Domino, Longshot, and others who have "probability manipulation"?

>>50377312
>Not just rolling better combinations of dice
Nigger please try harder the cotton is getting stale

>>50377197
Not when you give them to me when you use them.

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>>50377197
>I don't like THING, therefore THING is bad and if you like THING you're an babby

t. Killed by tripping on his shoes on session 1

>>50377197
Dice are crutches for groups who aren't confident in their story telling ability.

>>50377297
You spend a light one to get some shit, but when you do the GM gets a dark one iirc.

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>>50377197
>I'm hiding from my family and shitposting as hard as I can.
Go and hug your grandma, she won't be there forever.

>>50377326

>Not just rolling better combinations of dice

That's what a lot of those metagame points are. LOTW for instance has Joss where you use it and you get +1 dice for the turn (Or -1 dice t someone else you don't like if you use corrupt Joss)

>>50377444
>Joss
Even the term's name makes you wish the author would kill themselves

>>50377389
not everyone lives in murrica you know

>>50377468

>A wuxia themed game has luck points.
>They are called the chinese word for luck.

Oh god no!

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>>50377197

>>50377523

Well, the OP has shown they don't even understand the definition of a simple term like 'cheating', so you can hardly expect them to show any comprehension of other languages.

>>50377523
>Sux-ia
Nuff said

What the fuck is up with players making "decisions" like fuck if they think they have any right interacting in this dice-rolling game.

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>>50377529
>only sensible post in this entire thread

>>50377444
>Joss
>>50377468
>>50377523
>You get 4 Josses this game to do with as you wish

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"Cheating" explicitly means going against the established rules that're implemented to invoke fairness or to establish tone or consistency.

A fucking point that you spend to re-roll a result isn't cheating you asshat that's an established part of the rules. The only way it counts as cheating is if you ban them in your game in which case uhm okay

>>50377572
>fatefag tries his best

>>50377580
But anon, rerolls are badwrongfun because I don't like it.

ITT: People who haven't realized that Paranoia is the best possible system for playing Paranoia.

>>50377556
>Such brilliant comebacks
I bet you're the coolest kid in the kindergarten

>>50377197
I mean really if you hate metagame bullshit you should probably only play dice-less systems since the die roll is technically falls under your arbitrary classification of "metagame bullshit"

>>50377755
You're wrong, but thanks for being so mad about it.

>>50377226
This guy summed it up but then we kept the thread going. Why?

>>50377771
>N-nuh uh!
If all you care about is rolling dice then why don't you play craps or something

>>50377794
>If you don't agree with me you have to go play something else!
And they said that babies who insist on using metagame get out of jail free points wouldn't come in here throwing a tantrum.

Guess you really proved them wrong senpai

>>50377771

How is he wrong?

>>50377830
I'm not wrong, this guy is just a faggot troll who isn't interested in having a discussion and I should never have replied to his obvious b8 thread

>>50377845
>I'm not wrong because I said I'm not wrong!
What a silly child. Check your diaper

>>50377845

Yeah but it seems fair to at least offer him a chance to try to defence his stance.

>>50377872
see >>50377868

well the swedish game saga has an ok system. cause when you create a character you get d6 hero points. you cant get any more until you role up a new character. they are used to get one roll into an immidiate sucess

>>50377917
Sucks

>>50377877

That's not really an argument.

>>50377572
>decisions based on meta-knowledge of an abstract mechanic like re-rolls

>>>/qst
>>>/vg/

If your character's decision making process even once factors in the possibility of a reroll, you've broken character to an unforgivable degree and have entered the realm of being that guy. May as well start loading your dice at that point since you're cheating and taking the RP out of the game.

Even thinking about dice is metagaming bullshit, and dice should only used for unpredictable conflict resolution as a last resort. You do an action, see how it plays out according to the dice and then roleplay the result; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But there is *NO* way to separate your decision making process from the meta-knowledge of a **reroll**.

>>50377917

That sounds awful. Utterly random and without any relation to player action or choice.

>>50377987

Yeah, no. The 'Game' part is as significant as the 'Roleplaying'.

You also indulge in a ludicrous false dichotomy. Are you telling me you aren't simultaneously capable of thinking in character while also enjoying playing with the mechanical subsystems presented to you by the game? Man, you're really bad at this.

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>>50377699

>>50377987

>Even thinking about dice is metagaming bullshit, and dice should only used for unpredictable conflict resolution as a last resort. You do an action, see how it plays out according to the dice and then roleplay the result; sometimes you win and sometimes you lose. But there is *NO* way to separate your decision making process from the meta-knowledge of a **reroll**.

How is it any harder to seperate 'reroll' from your RP than 'roll'. Especially if the source of the reroll is an in-universe thing. Like 4e has a power that is 'Roll twice and take the best' as you are literally using Chronomancy to get 2 shots at it and letting the better timeline take place.

>>50377987
Every decision you make is based on meta-knowledge of abstract mechanics. It's literally impossible for that knowledge not to have an effect on your decision making.

Unless you haven't read any of the rules, didn't make your character and don't understand any of the scribbles on your character sheet. I'm trying to give you the benefit of the doubt, though.

>>50378020
The 'Game' only exists because there's no way to accurately simulate unpredictable outcomes without dice resolution.

I propose a dropping of the term 'game' from RPG entirely and using it as a great purge to rid metagamers from our hobby and henceforth using the term RP/S or RP+S with S being a representation of simulation. We've evolved past the need to incorporate gaming as an aspect of our roleplaying experience, and the weight of gaming weighs especially heavy in the modern era and the invitation of metagamers can only be undone with a purge that RP/S can bring.

>>50378092
Rule-less systems exist, and are denigrated, for a reason.

>>50378092

>The 'Game' only exists because there's no way to accurately simulate unpredictable outcomes without dice resolution.


Oh god, fuck simulationists. You guys are the worst.

Go off into your corner to play your RPS's with other sperges while the rest of us actually enjoy engaging, interesting systems which contribute to the experience of the game.

>>50378111
>help help help help help bronze is still good iron is bad help bronze is good still I promise help bronze is still good help help help iron is terrible nobody buy iron
>t. your ancestor

>>50378092
>I propose a dropping of the term 'game' from RPG entirely and using it as a great purge to rid metagamers from our hobby and henceforth using the term RP/S or RP+S with S being a representation of simulation.
/tg/ is traditional GAMES. If you don't like games, get the fuck out.

>>50378123
I see you knowledge of metallurgy and history rivals that of your knowledge of games and enjoyment.

>>50378101
I'm not advocating for rule-less systems, I'm talking about an overhaul in terminology and re-designation of existing simulationist game systems and a purge/move away from the vacuum of the all en-compassing RPG.

Again I will reiterate, the dice are an intertwined aspect into the RP/S style of gameplay. They however do not make the RP/S session into a 'game'. Dice will still be used when situations become unpredictable ie firing a gun at a moving enemy, or even firing at a stationary enemy while under a lot of stress, and rules will still exist to keep the RP/S simulation in-tact and accurately simulationist, but no longer will we call them a game.

>>50378150
Get on the iron horse or get left behind flakeknife

>>50378123

Bronze is honestly basicly as good as iron once it exists. While making iron only requires iron rather than two other metals it also required a much more specialised furnace system than Bronze which was very easy to smelt and made of two rather easy to mine metals. It wasn't really until steel that bronze actually was notably worse than iron for the qualities that people want in weapons or armour and even then it's for the ability to turn iron into steel rather than iron itself being great.

Heck, Bronze still saw a lot of use in anything that would see heavy environmental wear as Iron rusts a lot worse than Bronze does.

>>50378142
Antiquated terminology. Times change and with it the 'gamer' of olde (who was more of a simulationist than a 'gamer') has died and been replaced by a new breed of video game fed meta/powergamers who look upon accurate simulation and engaging RP with disdain.

The RP/S will purify the pool and bring us closer to the original vision.

>>50378167
Yeah we do the same thing but we call them games and use them to have fun.

>>50378196
The big problem with bronze was that, geologically, you don't get copper and tin anywhere near each other. Smelting bronze required trade and large empires just for the logistics of it. Meanwhile, once you can get fires hot enough any bumfuck European hovel can smelt iron into solid tools.

>>50378198
Irrelevant. War GAMES, roleplaying GAMES and board GAMES belong on /tg/. Your simulationist bullshit does not. So get the fuck out.

I quite like Drama Die

>>50378224

Yeah, which was one of the major issues Bronze had which led to the fall of empires that relied on it. They ran out of easy access to tin and it led to them having to start relying on iron, which they were not yet equipped to mass produce (See: Furnaces).

Both of them had issues (Bronze required more trade to get the resources for/iron required more infrastructure to mine/forge) but the world ended up favoring Iron as it's issues could be solved within a single area rather than relying on other people.

Still, as far as actual tools are concerned bronze and iron are pretty comparable. Honestly, for tools rather than weapons you are better off with bronze (And they are pretty comparable for weapons) due to the better rusting situation.

>>50377197
>Experience points are cheating
Okay.

>>50377868
On the same level as "you're wrong because I say you're wrong" so he's still come out ahead due to having made an argument in the first place.

>>50378322
I like how you act all smug and elite, sure, but the shit you're spewing is nowhere near new.

You already missed the bus, man, the cool kids left without you.

>>50378322
>Your idea of a roleplaying game is wrong
And yours doesn't belong in /tg/, so get the fuck out.

>>50378346
>waaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaa goo goo ga ga you dont belong here, moooooooommmmm!!!!

I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.

Poetic that I'm not only trying to save our dying hobby by cleaning up the mess that the term 'game' has brought, but I'm also dealing with a literal shit flinger who can't see the green grass on the other side of the fence.

>>50378379
Nigga, you are trolling nonstop.

Unless you actually believe even a drop of this dogshit, in which case kys.

>>50378379

You're literally trying to stop roleplaying games being games. On a board called 'Traditional Games'.

Of course, you're also a troll, but y'know.

>>50378379
>I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.
That's because you've already shown yourself either unwilling or incapable of having a civil discussion in the OP.

>>50378379
>I'm trying to have a civil discussion on the naming convention and the distinction between an RPG and an RP/S and you're just throwing your milk bottle around.

He's not wrong. This is a board for traditional games. If it's not a game it shouldn't likely be here any more.

>>50378449

None of that counters the point that even if what you're arguing had any merit, you'd also no longer have a place on /tg/.

>>50378449
Alternative viewpoint: You're an arrogant piece of shit who should stop screaming about how everyone who disagrees with you is a child having badwrongfun.

>>50377354

Pretty sure this same anon has been posting these shit "Game Mechanics are bad" threads for a couple weeks now.

>>50378493
Oh, is THAT what's going on? I've been away because of work, and there's like 3-4 of these fuckers up and I was roundly confused.

>>50378478
You're a real fucking daft cunt aren't you? Should I put your fucking bib on and feed you this piece by piece?

Should the distinction have been made 40 years ago on RPG and RP/S, both would have been mutually labelled under a blanket term of "Roleplaying Systems" and thus /tg/ never would have been traditional ******games***** to begin with.

We'd likely be dealing with /tg/ - Traditional Dice Using Systems/Cards/Board Games. Which would fully encompass not only the RPG but the RP/S as well.

>>50378524

Alternatively, /tg/ remains /tg/ and you can fuck off.

>>50378524
Jesus, Mr Kettle.

>>50378524
We aren't, though, which means you don't belong here.

Here's an idea, what if the points system is something recognized in-game? Call it "effort" or some shit and use it to represent the characters using some sort of internal power to put a little more "omph" into whatever their doing? Mechanically it has the same effects, but it's still an observable factor for the characters in game.

>>50378486
>fun

Shouldn't even factor into this conversation. This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.

Might I suggest video games if all you care about is having fun?

>>50378250
Same

>>50378634
>This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.

And yet, even if the game systems provided a completely immersive abstraction of real-life systems, a session was still a bad session if all the players didn't enjoy themselves.

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>>50378634
>Shouldn't even factor into this conversation. This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be. Accurate portrayal of events and situations is the defining point of a good roleplaying experience.
Heh, so how often do you find people to play with that share your vision? What do you play? How do the sessions go?

>>50378675
>>50378692
Come on, he just overplayed his hand. That is not a human being talking.

Unless you enjoy engaging the troll in which case, godspeed.

>>50378391
>>50378395
He's a funny troll though. He's obviously taking you all for a ride and you're falling for it hard.
Thanks Simulation-Troll, you've proven just how easy it is to troll /tg/.

>>50378675
A good roleplayer will find fulfillment outside of the confines of fun

>>50378692
I haven't had a chance to finish a session in several years, everyone I attempt to play with is an insufferable gamist who I couldn't stomach playing with even for an hour.

>>50378724
>I haven't had a chance to finish a session in several years, everyone I attempt to play with is an insufferable gamist who I couldn't stomach playing with even for an hour.

At least you're not an arrogant cunt for nothing, then. Trust me, your suffering is wholly deserved.

>You'll never escape Ron Edwards and GNS no matter how far you run.

>>50379034
>Ron Edwards and GNS will never stop being right no matter how mad you get.

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>>50377197
>this entire thread
Today there seems to be an unusually high level of shitposters AND people who want to respond to shitposters.
Maybe I'll try /tg/ again in a few days.

>>50379159
>Announcing your departure
That's a week ban senpai and boy do you deserve it

>>50379078
Never said GNS was bad, it's just the world we live in now. If really care about my opinion it is pretty useful for making and running games if you don't consider it the be all end all and just a tool.

>>50379159
Well, the actual people are all out with family, as I will be in just a bit.

That just leaves the subhumans to sling shit around.

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>>50379253
>the actual people are all out with family
>/tg/ is going to be filled with nothing but lonely grogs all evening
This explain everything.

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>>50379253
>pretending

>>50379299

And non-americans. There's quite a lot of us.

>>50379310
Yeah, he said subhumans already.

>>50379253
>Forgetting smartphones along with readily accessible wifi or cellular data plans exist
Take me back to 2006 with you.

>>50377287
I'm fine with hitpoints in systems where you don't get a laden full every 'level up' . And they're part of a note realistic portrayal of damage.

Speaking of shit I don't like, most systems with levels. It's a bit too game-y for there to be concrete skill platues.

>>50379253
>people are all out with family, as I will be in just a bit.
What's the special opportunity again?

>>50379378
Free food.

>>50379374
>a laden full
Expressions like that are a diamond dozen

>>50378634
>This hobby isn't about fun and shouldn't be.
And you were trolling so well.

>>50379414
Lol'd
Swipe to text is a gruel mistress.

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>>50377197
I am okay with something that can mitigate bad rolls a little bit. For me issues start to crop-up when the benefits become too large (shouldn't ever allow for an instant success) or those points become too numerous.

Bennies in Savage Worlds are my favorite point system because they are somewhat limited in utility. Sure you can burn a benny to reroll but your odds on that difficult check are still the same (I house rule that you must keep the new roll even if it is worse) and using a benny to make a soak roll still requires a successful vigor check.

I don't know about how other players operate but my group tends to quickly run out of their metagame points using most if not all of theirs in one or two bursts.

>>50378716
>Thanks Simulation-Troll
Don't thank him. He's making simulationists look bad.

>>50377297

Basically, there's a pool of light side and dark side tokens. Light side tokens can be used by the players to enhance dice rolls, activate abilities, or do minor story stuff, like "Well we have that crate of breath masks we weren't able to sell..."

Of course, each time you use one, it flips to a dark side point, which the GM can use to fuck you up in a number of ways.

>>50377197
> Edge
> Force Points
> Emergency Dice
> Willpower
I'm 100% okay with that. You're free not to play in my games.

>>50380054
>Terrible, worst thing to happen to shadowrun since 4th edition
>Utterly fucking retarded
>I shouldn't even have to tell you how retarded that is
>Yep, it's clinical
I couldn't even sit through one of your games let alone play in one, jesus christ mate

>>50378634
Someone post that "fun is a buzzword" copypasta, I don't have it saved.

>>50380260

>Terrible, worst thing to happen to shadowrun since 4th edition

It existed WELL before 4e. Karma being spent for temporary bonuses existed even before that.

>>50377197
t. simulationist

>>50377358
t. narrativist

>>50377783
because I like metacurrency if done right.

>>50378524
in fact, Playing At The World cites wargaming sources from the 1950s regarding the biggest conflict in the community being how important accuracy of simulation versus playability is.

>>50379243
it's very important. because once you understand clearly that anon X likes game A because he's a simulationist whereas anon Y hates said game because he's a narrativist, then you can basically tune out of a debate because there's ultimately no accounting for taste. GNS allows you to trace conflicts to that source.

>>50377197
This troll is real obvious after the third repost.
I wonder if the mods care.

>>50380285
>IT EXISTED EARLIER I PROMISE
Fucking hell I hate when you fags go full historical revisionist. Shut up, dummy.

>>50377507
Anyone who uses "murrica" might as well be here in Alabama with the rest of the inbred fucks.

>>50380631

Absolutely. Everyone who knows what they're talking about calls it 'Murka.

>>50380606

> Players also have Karma Pool that can be used to reroll any dice that failed to reach the target number. Karma Pool refreshes rarely, typically once per scene or less, at the GM's discretion.

>>50380686
>greentext makes it true
Bullshit

>>50380686
Dont engage with the troll, anon.
He's been making this thread daily and doesn't give a shit if he's wrong.

>>50380697
>He never played old shadowrun
Laughing_deckers.sim

>>50380702
>Everyone on /tg/ is the same person because they all disagree with me

It must be painful to be so delusional

>>50380721
>Maximum shitpost
Topkek

>>50378524
Roleplay my asshole

>>50381045

He seems to already be doing that. Look at all the shit he's producing.

>shitposting skyrockets after quests leave
>Skyrockets again after elections
>Never goes down
We will never escape this timeline.

>>50381124
>Implying that quests aren't shitposting
Just because you jack off to it doesn't mean it isn't shitposting

>>50381980
And just because YOU dislike it doesn't make it shitposting, especially when moot himself said it wasn't, fucktard.

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>>50382823
>moot
Holy shit lol yeah man moot was a really good judge of what was and was not good for 4chan and the individual boards

Really good call there

Absolutely made me think

>>50382865
Actually, he seemed to be.
I mean, the instant he left the place got filled with attack ads and shitposters like this guy
>>50381980

>>50381124
It's a shame we let the shitposters win.
/tg/ is now condemned to shitty threads like this one for all time.

>>50382951
Don't forget the begging!
4chan is now on a 24/7 begathon where we need all the money or we'll crash.
Also, now all images load slower because we can't support the bandwidth AND line newmoots pockets.

>>50382986
>Don't forget the begging!
If you think that's new at all you need to get the fuck off 4chan.

>>50383097
It's part of the complete scumbag package.
Attack ads, fewer services, namefag plus premium, begging, slower images, enhanced shitposting, things like that.

>>50377287
Hitpoints are as much plot armor as they are meatpoints

>>50377197
>legitimized cheating
>legitimized
So not cheating at all

>>50383416
>The mob always rigs boxing matches so it's hardly even cheating to spend some free points to not get hit by that right hook

>>50383476
>implying the mafia works on a goddamn fate point system
fuck, someone get me the rulebooks.
I want to play this shit.

>>50383491
Did you have to spend a """""""bennie"""""" point to avoid understanding that mixed metaphor?

>>50383541
Fuck off and get me those mob fight rules.

>>50383673
Did you have to spend a """""""bennie"""""" point to come up with that zinger?

>>50383687
Get me those rules, parker.

>>50383692
I doubt you've got any """""""bennies""""""" left

>>50383711
I am not seeing rules. Give to me this mob fight game.

When an immovable object meets and immovable object.

I find stuff like pemdragon or riddleof steel stuff more palatable. Have metacurrency based on character motives or emotions adding to their roll. That way the character decisions are more tied to the player decisions. The issue with bennies and whatnot isn't an issue of metacurrency in general but that it doesn't have any relation to the character.

I find things like Luck traits that are purchase able for rerolls fine, same as bonus "expertise points" for really high cinematic skills or whatever you can use to buy some special effects. My only issue with metacurrency is with games like Fate where they're integral to every PC (and only PCs get them, the rest are an amorphous "world pool" for the GM) without exception and the entire game runs on them; without the economy it breaks down.

I guess I find it more palatable when there's some in-universe justification (these specific chatacters are just that good/lucky/whatever) for their presence and they aren't there as ambiguous "player decision fuel" where the game is what demands they exist and be used in a certain way at all times otherwise the system and the flow of world events breaks down in their absence.

>>50377197
What's your (and the thread's) opinion on fatigue management?

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>Bitches dissing my Savage Worlds

Here's the thing: Savage Worlds is a wargame with an RPG stapled on top of it. Combat is deadly as fuck and your precious snowflake characters will, sooner or later, catch a bullet. Characters aren't brick walls that have to be chipped down to 1 hp and then suddenly die, they can get fucked up by one lucky roll.

So either you get to spend the down time between each session filing the serial numbers off yet another Naruto character to play, or you get a handful of golden tickets to use to stay alive unless you act like a complete dumbass and have it coming.

>>50384235
>trying to pretend that piece of shit is a wargame
5/10 I replied

It really isn't. Lots of popular games like Shadowrun and WoD have systems like that as it is fun to do cool things but at less arbitrary points in time.

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>>50378692
best guy

>>50377507

Go hug your grandmother anyway.

>>50385405
I'm not going to break into the cemetery to hug an urn of Ashes, anon. And I already burned offerings to her two werks back.

>>50377197
You're not wrong OP, but holy shit you're one jaded sumbitch.

>>50377358
I dunno, helps it feel like an actual game where i can accomplish things if the possibility of failure is present

>>50382966
4chan has always been a den of bored people

>>50378123
Wait, have a missed a hip new simulationist trend or something? I thought everyone was into narrativist stuff nowadays.

>>50388479
Shitposts anon.

>>50378092
What are the most popular simulationist systems right now? Also, are you trolling? Be honest.

>>50377523
this is america not gookland, so fuck off wing wang wong

>>50383711
i'be got a benis left xdddddd

in my pants

>>50388511
Your new overlords called, they said ching chung chong accept your new fate

>>50388479
simulationism has been the default mode of RPGing since OD&D.

>>50388504
not him. depends on what you mean by simulationist. all systems have aspects of GNS, so if you say simulationist system I assume you mean the simulationist aspect is predominant. this gets even more complicated when you consider that simulationist might refer to simulating the real world or simulating a genre (at which point it borders with narrativism).

I would presume the most popular simulationist games are still
CoC
GURPS
DSA (in Germany)
Shadowrun (if you happen to think it's Gamist instead, compare with the talents in Deathwatch RPG for example)
FATE (when you use it for pulp genre simulation)

>>50388558
No, OD&D is a very gamist system. It has many abstractions and its rules are not trying to be the game world's laws of physics.

>>50388633
well, that's because it's an early iteration, so you're judging by today's standards.

>The Fantasy Supplement in Chainmail introduces itself as a means to “refight the epic struggles related by J.R.R. Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, and other fantasy writers,” and in that light it is striking that the foreword to the first edition of Dungeons & Dragons invokes the work of many founding fathers of the fantasy genre [...]

>>50388558
"That's how it was played in the 1970's; that's why it's good."
Do you also have a 16" monochrome television set?

>>50388719
D&D hasn't been very simulationist in any of its iterations so that's kinda moot point.

>>50388730
but i don't like D&D, I am just quoting the designers at the time of creation. they wanted players to be able to adventure and kill monsters in fantasy world like tolkien, leiber, howard, vance, etc.

>>50388756
cool argument. I have quoted the designers on their intention. now i agree they fell short because this whole thing was new. i won't even dispute that D&D is more gamist than simulationist. but the (genre) simulation aspects have always been there. part of it is the resource management, I believe.

This thread is quite possibly the worst one on the board.
I can't find a bigger fag than Op right now.
I guess it is because americans haven't woken up yet, but fuck.

>>50377197
I'm sorry you have no fun.

>>50377229
I would honestly just kill off your character if this happens three sessions in a row.

First two times, okay, scheduling problems are going to occur, it happens.

Third time, your ass is at my mercy because goddammit, you had weeks to plan around that shit so either you're trying to game the system or you're a flake who doesn't deserve to waste a valuable player slot anyways.

>>50389761
Anon, don't respond to the troll.