Modern General Trinisphere is sleeper tech edition >What

>>50306146
First for Bird Brain
Caleb's build is kinda weak, I've been running mentors in the main and it feels so much better. It never really feels like you need that much extra draw power, especially since your combo draws you at least 4 and I already run 8 other draw cards. Might go down to either 3 thing or 3 mentor though, it feels a bit redundant when I draw them

>>50306146

Second for dead format

>playing
Abzan knight tribal
>brewing
still trying to build spellweaver helix. it's fucking hard. I switched up the build from the old ass one to remove the burst mill cards in favor of more cantrips, added young pyromancers as another wincon, but it's still ticking. I like the idea of thought scour and dredging off of it. The loam ravens crime engine is as good as ever.
>FNM?
Didn't make it down, was playing ssbm instead
>Super secret tech
Haakon, Nameless inversion
>sleeves
not anime girls

>>50306146
>What are you playing?
Gruul deck wins

>What are you brewing?
Gruul deck wins

>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
Apparently my FLGS doesn't sell singles on Friday; so I could only play standard. Went 1-2 against a spicy Roil Shaper deck, then went 1-2 against RG energy pumping.

>What's your super secret tech?
It's a secret.

>What sleeves do you use?
KMC Hyper Matte

>>50306146
>>What are you playing?
Jund. Always Jund
>>What are you brewing?
Nothing, I need to save money for now.
>>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
Modern FNM's are dead in my are now, so I played standard. Went undefeated in Swiss with UW Degeneracy then lost in top 4 to too many lands. Pulled a Chandra and a foil Saheeli from one of my pity pack
>>What's your super secret tech?
Thrun and Golgari Charm
>>What sleeves do you use?
Matte Dragon Shields

>What are you playing?
EvoStone Elves
>What are you brewing?
See above
>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
My FNM does late night commander and I work until 10pm so I only get to do that. I did play some modern casuals and won on turn 3 both games 1 and 3.
>What's your super secret tech?
Garruk Relentless
>What sleeves do you use?
Trying out KMC Super Gloss/Sure Fits

>>50306146
>What are you playing?
Dredge
>What are you brewing?
Sultai midrange/control no path/bolt/terminate really sucks, but hey, tasigur, goyf, flayer, snap and confidant :)
>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
1-3 I'm trying to play Corey's Grixis Control
death's shadow 2-1
bant eldrazi 0-2
skred 0-2
sun/moon 0-2
>What's your super secret tech?
Haunted Dead. Normally my LGS is all control decks
>What sleeves do you use?
Dragon Shield purple

>>50306481
Can we see your Abzan knight tribal? seems neat

>>50307873
>Confidant and Tasigur in the same deck
Sultai is already bad in this format, but you're just begging to lose.

>playing
Dredge and Naya burn
>brewing
Abzan Blink
>Fnm
No modern in my area but I went undefeated with grixis control
>tech
Not that secret but I use greater gargadon in dredge to help combat exile effects
>sleeves
Matte Dragon shields

>>50307873
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Grim Flayer Previously was Dark Confidant, I think Flayer's worse because only have land, creature, instant, sorcery, planeswalker
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang

2 Liliana of the Veil

4 Ancestral Vision
4 Serum Visions
2 Thoughtseize
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Spell Snare
2 Countersquall
3 Remand

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lumbering Falls

no SB yet because I can't even find a main deck config that doesn't lose to everything.

Current gauntlet is this
Bant Eldrazi
Affinity
Jund Abzan/Junk sometimes rotates in
Dredge
Infect
RG Tron
Naya Burn
Death's Shadow.dek
either Jeskai/Grixis Control, they play mostly the same most of the time

>>50307910
I know it's bad but I like the cards and not going to play it for real until we get something like Shardless Agent, which isn't going to happen. Also nothing like Brainstorm or Hymn that exist in Legacy.

>>50306146
>Trinisphere is sleeper tech edition

Have you been living under a rock?

Do people that run two cards in a sideboard to hate something like say, dredge, or infect, with Grafdigger's Cage, or RIP, or extra untargeted burn respectively, just cheat on shuffling to semi-reliably get the cards into their hands?

>>50308795
Trick shuffling is the most important part of playing competitive magic.

>>50308795
I have two bojuka bog for the dredge mirror. Just dredge them eventually and then bog them.

But seriously, if you think your opponent is cheating, call a judge. You're allowed to shuffle their deck too.

>>50307940
isn't new lili better than veil lili in this kind of deck?
also, lack of both v. clique and scavenging ooze seems suspect. Perhaps try architects of will or executioner's capsule for delirium. also i kind of think inquisition/thought scour may be a better turn 1 play than vision atm.
>>50307960
>Hymn
there's whispers of emrakul now which is maybe a turn 3 hymn

I want to build Brain in a Jar.dec, what should I use as my finisher?

>>50309033
Thing/Mentor

>>50309063

Sounds good. What cards are those?

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How do we save Modern from almost every deck being pick 2-3 colors goodstuff + sideboard techs?

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>>50309115
Here, just run my list

>>50309150
Buff combo
Unban Glimpse and Rite of Flame
Unban Jace so we can have a real control deck again

>>50309161

I want to try "creatureless" or close to it, I'm considering Rise from the Tides and that new enchantment that shits out X/X creature tokens.

How important is stayin in-color? Is it okay to have spells you can only cast via the Brain,or should your manabase always be able to hardcast stuff? Also, what kind of hate should I expect to see?

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>>50309212

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>>50309227

>>50309212
The list I posted is the closest thing to a viable modern deck that exists. I've played games with it against top tier decks and it can hold it's own alright.
You need to stay in color because odds are you're going to have to cast the cards outside of Brain. Brain is really mostly there to combo with Beck // Call and draw you 4 cards + make 4 1/1 Birds for 1 mana. Past that, it might make it to 4 mana for Cryptic but that's it.
There's no reason to play rise from the tides when you can just run the Beck // Call combo. Summonings sucks because it's too expensive and you can't cast it off jar. The only reason the deck works is because it's basically a UW control deck with the ability to get crazy card advantage off Brain.

>What are you playing?
Skred/White and Owling Mine and Blue Moon.
Basically I like playing Blood Moon decks, it feels pretty good at the moment, and decks which run sideboard hate cards mainboard feel pretty well positioned.
>What are you brewing?
Skred/Blue. I'm pretty sure Blue Moon ft. Skred is a good time. It does mean I lose Koth which is a pity, but I'm running Nahiri and a single Angry Ajani in RW Skred as my planeswalkers so I don't think he's necessary. However, it would be good to have a 3-4 cost planeswalker in RU that furthers the gameplan. Saheeli Rai doesn't cut it.
>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
Went 2/2. Was playing Owling Mine and had a couple of good matchups and a couple of really bad ones lol. Went 2-0 against Emeria and 2-1 against Jeskai control because they went bolt-bolt-snap-bolt to kill lol.
Went 0-2 against burn both times. Turns out forcing your opponent to draw cards is bad against burn.

>What's your super secret tech?
I guess Boom//Bust isn't that secret. Anger of the Gods main. Gut Shot against delver/infect/snapcaster decks. Runeflare trap.
>What sleeves do you use?
Red KMC Hyper matte. I like sleeving all my modern cards in the same color sleeves so I can change it up swiftly, so my opponents don't know what I'm playing.
What I'm playing is bad so it doesn't really matter.

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>>50306146
>What are you playing?
8-ish rack with a tiny splash of red for terminate and Rise//Fall
>What are you brewing?
Nothing recently, kaladesh standard burnt me out on deckbuilding for a while and I really fucking hate that smug-copter
>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
I only play kitchen table with my friends
>What's your super secret tech?
Burning Inquiry + Dream Salvage. Definitely not worth the 8 slots in the deck, and half the time it shuts itself down, but goddamnit when it goes off and screws your opponents hand while you cast almost ancestral recall, it's glorious.
Also Augur of Skulls is underrated
>What sleeves do you use?
2nd hand ultra-pro because my friend is triggered by fetchlands without sleeves

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>>50306146
>>What are you playing?
Thalia and Friends Happy Fun Hour

>>What are you brewing?
lol >brewing

>>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
crushed it 5-0

>>What's your super secret tech?
lawyering game losses over leonin arbiter

>>What sleeves do you use?
kmc hyper-matte

>>50310237
You are the kind of person that makes modern players look bad.

Anybody play bant eldrazi? I'm thinking of putting it together, since I'm looking to build legacy eldrazi. Any tips? Is it different enough from jund?

>>50310506
Also how is the tron match up?

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Reminder that blue is so bad in modern that banning a red card made it unplayable

>>50310305
>Kmc hyper-matte
this is literally worse than everything else he posted

>>50310506
A friend built it and he likes it well enough. He thinks it a little boring, and it's harder to play than it looks. You get some great sideboard options and your top decks tend to be really good.
You are vulnerable to nonbasic hate. My friend started running a single Wastes against me because I run blood moon.
From what I can see against Tron you really need to aggro them out. You can fight through a resolved Karn, but an O-Stone puts a dent in your plans. But your SB options mean you can probably put a dent in their plans so they can't assemble the t3 tron.
Also you kind of blank Ugin which isn't terrible.


As an additional thought, why aren't people playing Merfolk as much at the moment?
>fast
>resilient and redundant
>mainboards land disruption
>mainboards counters
>creatures tend to be either good or counterspells

???

Post difficult decks to play. I'll start:

Burn

>>50310900
That's funny seeing how they are the best price/performance sleeves.

>>50309150
print the following
Back to Basics
1R/G Uncommon
When Back to Basics enters the battlefield, each player chooses a basic land type. Nonbasic lands that player controls are the chosen type.

>>50311120
KMC is shit, even Dragon Shields are better

>>50311144
>Dragon Shields
>better

Oh that was a good laugh

>>50311095
>difficult to play
No
>difficult to master
Yes
>overall difficulty
Medium

>>50311095
ANT

>>50311182
He was joking, anon. You remember jokes, right?

>>50311217
Yes, Ad Nauseam Tendrils would be difficult to play considering Tendrils of Agony isn't legal in modern

>>50311219
Not since Pro Tour Oath.

>>50311236
Grapeshot
Empty the Warrens

pedantic faggot

>>50311095
Infect.

>>50311565
Unironically this

rate my brew

I don't know what I'm doing

4 Delver of Secrets
2 Tasigur, The Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler

4 Myth Realized

4 Lingering Souls
4 Path to Exile
4 Thought Scour
4 Serum Visions
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
2 Negate
2 Collective Brutality
2 Spell Snare
2 Spell Pierce

4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
3 Seachrome Coast
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Godless Shrine
1 Watery Grave
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Swamp

>>50311624
play blighted agent or inkmoth nexus
have pump/protection in hand
????
profit

>>50312192
mate I respect the esper delver but there is a reason most builds run bolt and snapcaster. I'd think about dropping myth realized and upping the threat count to 12

>>50312350
I mainly just wanted to use myth realized

>>50312443
play it in a smallpox attrition shell

>>50312443
>4 Myth Realized
I get it, it's a neat card, but it's vulnerable to 2 types of removal. If you're dead-set on using it I'd recommend playing even a single threat more. In my experience 12 threats is the bare minimum a delver deck wants to run and I prefer 14. I've played more delver in pauper and legacy though. I might be wrong.
Best of luck, I guess.

>>50307940
>sultai

MUH N I G G A
Finally someone understands

>>50309150
I hate Goodstuff decks with a fiery passion, but I don't see anything wrong with 2 color decks. There's no good way to fix the problem without heavy land bans or dedicated hate cards.

>>50311144
The only people who I've seen use Dragon Shields are the players who absolutely manhandle their cards.

>>50311095
Skeleton Tribal.

>>50313118
>I hate Goodstuff decks with a fiery passion
Why do you hate fun?

Return to 3 set blocks when ?

>>50313315
Maybe when they're done with the Jacetice League story

Dragon shield a best
KMC a shit

>>50312579
>but it's vulnerable to 2 types of removal
I had the same thought, but really if they bring in enchantment hate it only hits one card in my deck. Maybe I should even add some Geist of Saint Traft?

>>50307940
Eyy alright, so first things first, good deck choice.
Flayer is strong in the sense that he doesn't just charge goyf and himself but also powers up snapcaster mage. He also is good alongside scooze and conveniently is good late game to filter thoughtseizes.

I reccomend drop a snap for a kalitas (you only need one, you're not jund) and also see about putting a kourser of kruphix into the mix. Enchantment for your guys and just also really strong by himself. A scooze in the main is super good too.

I am not a fan of AV. It's just sooo bad late game. Yeah the turn 1 or turn 2 is the best but anything else is medium. I dropped serum visions to three and was quite happy. Also I run 3 inquisition and 2 thoughtseize. The power of going inquision-goyf-snap inquisition. Or even just tear their hand apart as you feed serum visions is good.

3 abrupt decay is a lot, personally I think 2 is a softer area. Because of tron, dredge guys and eldrazi, you have fewer targets.
I use countersquall in the side and dispel main. Dispel is good against every deck but 1 in the format so it's strong. Remand is more tempo and not midrange. It's okay but there's better counters.

Liliana of the viel is spicy. I haven't run her just because of fears of her and counterspells. You'll also need damnations to fix the late game. Victim of the night is powerful too, even though it doesnt hit kalitas and zoombie fish.

Bant eldrazi sideboard tech is the ashiok. Ashiok comes down early enough and grows fast. Stealing their top decks and pushing them back at them. It's good.
Affinity is normally not hard to kill. Damnations are needed against them. Your goyfs are a problem for them too.
G/B/x is a hard matchup. Personally I find flip jace to be good, same with main board scooze. Cryptic is your friend there as well. It 2-for-1's in a good way.
Infect isn't impossible, You need collective brutality to really get them but having counters for their pumps and kill spells for their guys

>>50307940
Rg tron is a royal pain in the dick. I have fulminator mage in the side but rain of tears can be flashed back so there's that. Also the new blue counter for colourless is good as a 2 of for tron, eldrazi, and affinity.
Naya burn is by far our best matchup. I have yet to lose to them. You get feed the clan post board, preboard dispel, big creatures, kill spells and counters just fuck them up. Kalitas preboard and obstinate baloth post for extra life gain.
Death's shadow I have yet to see, sorry mang
Other control decks are hard to deal with because they run cards like kommand and the like. It's important to not over commit, kill their man lands with ghost quarters, and watch out for bolts.

How do you decide what deck to play? There just seems to be so many options

>>50315427
Try them all and see what sticks
Also look at the meta and see what's good

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>>50307873

list isnt perfect but its been netting me wins all over the place, id take it to FNM in a heartbeat

>>50315427
You make a choice.
If you don't have a deck, get Zombie Hunt ($18) and use that to sample the local meta.

I swear to God you'd better not be one of those indecisive millennial shits who can only be told what to think and need playdoh and coloring pages to de-stress.
I don't want to be enabling an idiot by telling you what to do

>>50311624
>>50312265
I was memeing, but the deck isn't brain-dead like people think it is.

Controversial topic, but Ink moth nexus is the not great in infect.

>>50306146

>playing
Infect sometimes Tokens if I'm feeling less mean.

>brewing
Goblins, want to like rabblemaster and krenko that my buddies play but I'm doing 8whacky thing instead.

>FNM
Played some dumb pummeler rg list. Probably sell it and get more shit for modern and edh because I'm rarely free to play standard. Went 3/1 though. Rough matchup against Esper Superfriends and UW spirits though.

>Super tech?
Turn 2 and 3 kills using janky combos to replace twin in my head cannon. Shit like Pilla Pala or Enduring renewal type decks.

>Sleeves
Dragon shield, doesn't matter color or matte/not matte. I just like them because they are durable and shuffle pretty well.

>>50315703
It dodges discard and Abrupt Decay and is colorles so no, you're wrong. It's just not as good as Blighted Agent once it hits the field but it's by no means a bad card in the deck

>>50315722
Hear me out. Ink moth is both a mediocre creature and a land. Producing a colourless mana is not great for infect, because the deck needs 3 g/u mana for turn three. Needing a mana to activate ink moth also slows down your game plan too, for said reasons above. I\

Ink moth being a creature and a land makes it slot in infect, but it is still the worst land in the deck and the worst creature in the deck.

>>50315783
this is true of all creature lands

>>50315783
Nah Gelf is easily the worst creature, it's just there to cheese out turn 2 wins. It's really bad unless you have a way to force it past an enemy like with DStrike or Rancor and even then it's not great. Plus Inkmoth has flying which is nice and pretty important in some common matchups, like Affinity.
The one colorless is shite too but that's not that bad because at least Agent is 1U, not UU. Arbor is the worst land in the deck because it's absolutely worthless to draw and it really only serves as a way to beat Lili and to get cheese out a win one in every 50 games.
It doesn't even slow down your gameplan that much, maybe a single turn and that's on like turn 3-4, you can still easily rush down your opponent and win. I'd say that it actually has the advantage of not being a creature because that it can't be hit with sorcery speed removal on your opponent's turn, forcing them to leave up mana which at that early on in the game means they can't develop their boards which both telegraphs that they have removal and buys you time to get anything you need.

>>50315783

>worst land in the deck
none of your other lands can kill people

>worst creature in the deck
its not a creature, its a land

this is where you're getting mixed up, anon. youre seeing it like the worst of creatures and the worst of lands. its a land that can be an evasive glistener when you need it. it lets you grind out matchups when they play a dude on the ground. it lets you swing for 5 on 2 and 5 in the air on 3. it dodges all sorcery speed removal.

>>50315783
Also forgot to mention that decent players will always be looking to remove your creatures either during their turn to avoid dealing with combat step shenanigans, so by forcing your opponent to deal with it during your combat step you get an enormous advantage. It does have the weakness of being able to get hit during your postcombat but so do all your infecters

>>50315845
>decent players will always be looking to remove your creatures either during their turn to avoid dealing with combat step shenanigans

so much fucking this. this is a major, major advantage.

>>50315783
One last thing is that if you're holding a piece of protection and 2 mana and they go in to ghost quarter you, you can essentially make them lose a land at the price of discarding a card. It's not perfect because they'll still have a chance to respond but that's still something to consider.

>>50315783
i usually play bolt decks and inkmoth is the infect card i hate most
i suppose when you're racing goldfish decks you prefer your other dudes but it's so good against interactive decks

>>50315783

Also note that it dodges thoughtseize/IoK

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>>50315427
I always tell new players to pick by colours they like. For example if they like UR they can build a simple whatever deck they have interest/budget for (this can also be supercasual) and get their UR core cards (mana, cantrips, bolts etc) in the process and from there go into whatever they seem to like from the meta like jeskai control, ur delver, storm, temur shift ...

>>50315427
I ended up playing tron because one day I realized that thru trading and cracking packs I had all the pieces for it anyway

They really need to make a lightning axe with no drawbacks, then ban bolt, to fix the format.

>>50316393
So 5 mana for one mana at instant speed? Sure thing bud

Also fuck off. You shat up last thread with your shitposting, now youre ruining this one

>>50315619
>those indecisive millennial shits who can only be told what to think and need playdoh and coloring pages to de-stress
well I don't need playdoh and coloring pages but I am an indecisive shit. Part of it is also dropping hundreds of dollars for a deck makes me hesitant. Like I might really enjoy playing some U/R/x deck but I just don't want to buy scalding tarns

>>50316145
White, Black and Green are probably my favorites right now. I also love the idea of tribal decks and kind of want to run spirits or eldrazi

>>50311095
gifts

>>50311095
Jund

>What are you playing?
UW Turbo Tutelage

>What are you brewing?
A Death Cloud deck that uses cards from recent sets

>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
Yes, I did. Bad draws against Sisters and a really bad matchup against explosive mill, I ended up 1-1-2. The good thing is that bad draws can be solved with better shuffling and that I can face affinity without problems.

>What's your super secret tech?
SB Swan Song and 2 Ebony Owl Netsuke to switch from mill to damage and surprise fetch/shock users.

>What sleeves do you use?
Both inner and outer are japanese, but I can't remember the brand. The storeowner uses them for his vintage decks, so if it is good enough for 20k decks, it's good enough for my pocket change shits

Naya burn gets muh dick hard. It's one of the most simple and streamlined decks in modern, while also being one of the most flavourful. And despite it being incredibly easy to pick up and learn on how to play, it can also be one of the most difficult to master. Gonna try to sunbleach the deck I have.

>>50317900
>flavourful
Uh...

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A lot of people have been asking if this format needs to be fixed recently, so I'll ask what you think the format needs to be fixed.

Fixed being defined as, games don't get faster than turn 3, Aggro Combo Control and Midrange have atleast 1 deck at tier one, and sideboards aren't 15 silver bullets.

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>>50319411
>Aggro Combo Control and Midrange have atleast 1 deck at tier one
this is true currently

>>50319510

Label those by type before you make us guess which ones you think are control and combo.

>>50319532
>lantern control
tron is combo

>>50319541

Why is it combo? Legit question

>>50310597
wut?

>>50319732
Some retards think that just because your game plan is to make it to the late game and play a huge bomb to ride it all the way to victory, that makes you a combo deck

>>50319732
It aims to get a very specific combination of cards into play, and getting those cards into play are it's primary win condition. It runs many arguably sub optimal cards just to assist in assembling said combination of cards (although this isn't a strict requirement of a combo deck).

>>50319761
Next you're going to tell me that Gifts Control is a combo deck

>>50319769
Next you'll tell me tron is actually aggro

>>50311095
Dredge

>>50319805
>Put half of your deck into the GY and put 15 power into play by turn 2
yeah real skill intensive

>>50312930
The deck is really bad but B and G are my favorite colors with U being third. Jund and Abzan aren't so fun for me. Let's play BUG as best we can. unban jace, treasure cruise and dig through time and give us counterspell plz

>>50319828
Your deck specifically already has counterspell

>>50319850
What card are you talking about? Squall? Spell Snare? Dispel? Cryptic Command is really the only unconditional counterspell in modern that's viable.

So based on suggestions, this is the current deck. It's 64 cards and possibly worse. I know it isn't top tier but I'm looking for something that can go 3-2 or 2-3 at FNM.

4 Tarmogoyf
3 Grim Flayer
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet

2 Liliana, the Last Hope

2 Architects of Will This is just U/B draw a card
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thought Scour
2 Dispel
2 Spell Snare
2 Victim of Night
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Countersquall
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Hymn to Tourach Whispers of Emrakul

4 Polluted Delta
3 Misty Rainforest
2 Verdant Catacombs
2 Watery Grave
2 Breeding Pool
2 Overgrown Tomb
3 Island
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Lumbering Falls

Other/SB options to think about
Kitchen Finks
Duress
Grafdigger's Cage
Maelstrom Pulse
Damnation
Dispel
Surgical Extraction
Ancestral Vision
Thoughtseize
Remand
Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Logic Knot
Think Twice
Vendilion Clique
Serum Visions

Bump for SCG shitposting

>>50319541

I agree - and actually merfolk is also combo. You have to put together several different cards to win the game

>>50319884
Logic Knot

>>50320241
They don't have to be specific though, which is the distinction. Lots of lords win the game. 1 lord and lots of silvergills win the game. No lords into master of waves. etc. Give me your definition of combo while rules out tron but not other combo decks.

>>50320311
Assembling Tron doesn't win you the game. Pretty much any other combo deck is classified as such because it contains a game-ending combination of cards.

>>50320344
Turn 3 karn pretty much wins you the game. Metas where it doesn't don't make tron not a combo deck, they make tron a combo deck which is bad in that meta. And that's what the deck is aiming to do. Play a very specific (right down too their name, even if they existed functional reprints wouldn't work) combination of cards which lead to you winning the game.

>>50320017
What if you add Bloodghasts, Life From the Loam and Prized Amalgam?

>>50320017
Might not be what you're wanting to do in modern, but Eternal Scourge plus Scrapheap Scrounger is a nifty 'infinite loop'

Bant Eldrazi is also a combo deck, as is Jund. Several combinations of cards allow you to outright win the game.

>>50320896
Such as?

>>50320919

eldrazi temple + heirarch = turn 2 TKS for bant eldrazi. IoK + Goyf + Liliana turn 3 for Jund.

Combo decks, obviously. Grixis control as well. Even burn.

>>50320946
neither of those win you the game outright, none of them are close to as strong as t3 karn.
Have you ever considered that instead of purposely acting like a retard in an attempting to make me look dumb, you could instead engage in a normal discussion?

>>50320974

T3 Karn doesn't outright win you the game either. What if I'm playing dredge? You exile a single target permanent. Then what?

I want to get into modern but i have a very low budget atm, is this a good start? https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/504144#paper

>>50321014
Then we consider that a bad match up for tron. But we don't start calling tron control, or if you're like that guy from the other day aggro, because we're able to make more complex analysis of deck archetypes than simple one single match ups.
The deck runs very few control type spells. It's not aggro, if you start arguing that tron is aggro I won't reply any further. It runs the combo cards in the tron lands and 7/8 mana spells, and cards that help it assemble the combo cards. It's combo. It plays like combo decks, it does not play like non-combo decks. Its primary goal, the ideal plan of the deck, is to assemble a specific combination of cards which produce such a monumental advantage that it is extremely likely to win the game after doing so. Other non-combo decks often assemble small combinations of cards, but they are not as specific or produce enough advantage for them to be considered combo.
>>50321072
Ideally you want a deck that has a good portion of its cost in the mana base, because that's the most transferable part of most decks. If you build this deck very few cards will transfer over to a less budget option you build later. It's ok as a cheap deck for you to learn about the other sorts of decks in the format.

>>50320974
Not the guy you're discussing the issue with but I think what separates combo decks from non-combo decks is how intuitive the interaction of the combo pieces is.

putting tron lands in play and casting something big and dumb is super straight forward and an intuitive use of the cards. anyone could look at them and say "lol i can use these to cast karn liberated on turn 3"

combo decks are decks that establish extreme board superiority or outright win the moment their combo cards are assembled, and the interaction which allows such is far less intuitive. No one reads the urza lands and says "wait, what?". Everyone who sees them can instantly think to themselves "if I get these 3 lands in play I can play something big and dumb" It's a very straight forward and intuitive use of the cards.

The first thought someone has when they read ad nauseam is probably "why would anyone use this?". the straight forward use of the card is to draw a few cards at the expense of life. A non-intuitive interaction is combining it with a "can't lose the game" clause to draw your whole deck and use a combo included in the deck's construction to immediately win the game from that point

When someone reads the card living end, they see that you can cast an effective copy of the card living death for 2BB, but delayed by a few turns. an unintuitive interaction is to "cheat" the spell out by constructing a deck such that you can 100% guarantee free casting it with a cascade spell.

Using mountain to cast lightning bolt & friends seven times is not unintuitive. it's the most straight forward, intuitively crafted deck in the game.

I'm not sure if there's a better word to describe it than "intuitive", I feel like I'm using the word too much, but I feel that's the difference that distinguishes combo decks from noncombo decks. it's not black and white clearly defined, but it's something that everyone understands without being able to clearly put into precise words.

>>50308795
It just seems that way when you're playing a broken braindead fotm deck that can't beat reasonable draws, mostly Dredge.

>>50320397
>Turn 3 karn pretty much wins you the game.
Jesus fucking Christ against any real deck no it doesn't.

>>50321154
I find that quite an odd definition. I would say a better word than intuitive is intended. Combining ad nauseam with angel's grace was not the intended use of the card, unlike the tron lands which were made with the intent to make 7 mana when combined. In any case, I think such 'meta' definitions for decks, in which you considered the designers, or the thoughts of the player when first viewing the cards, is not a good way to define deck types.

>>50321116
Control and combo are not mutually exclusive.
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/53fwry/modern_scg_on_the_current_state_of_modern/d7sw8bt/
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/53fwry/modern_scg_on_the_current_state_of_modern/d7sy2ki/
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/3wox3j/rg_tron_is_it_a_control_deck/cxxzsg2/

>>50321332
Sure, and the majority of T1 decks are arguably 2 of the 3 main types. But when people say 'I want a T1 combo deck in modern' they generally mean 'I want a T1 deck that is primarily combo in modern', so defining decks as a single archetype is useful in this discussion.

>>50321116

>the ideal plan of the deck, is to assemble a specific combination of cards which produce such a monumental advantage that it is extremely likely to win the game after doing so.

So once a combo deck has redundancy, is it no longer a combo deck? Was Twin not a combo deck because there were 4 permutations of the combo, Kiki+twin and pestermite+exarch? What if they printed a third part for both, or either, halves of the combo?

So then, what about infect? They only run 3 infect creatures and a bunch of pumps, but it has enough permutations that work. Another key part is that it can get its value over many turns; if infect damage refreshed between turns, it would 100% be a combo deck.

What then, for 8rack? You need rack/affliction, and then a selection of redundant discard cards. Is that a combo deck, because it gives you a huge advantage if they're all out?

I don't think tron is combo because it's not attempting to assemble a combo that wins on the spot.
It's not control because it just isn't playing a control game. It's much more midrange that spends the first few turns ramping up to 7+ mana.
>inb4 midrange doesn't exist

>>50321598

This is correct imo

>>50321598
>It's not control because it just isn't playing a control game.
>does absolutely nothing but try to survive early aggression, use mana engine stabilize and then land a finisher or use stabilizer to bolt face when there's no threats remaining
>not control
>>50321332

>>50321585
Twin/kiki + pester/exarch are for one pretty much the same combo. Beyond that, a deck that's trying to assemble to different, but both specific combos, is still a deck that is trying to assemble a combo of specific cards.
Infect is primarily an aggro deck. If you had to call it one or the other it's aggro. But if you can call it more than 1, it's aggro combo.
8rack attempts to control the opponent through discard, then establish the win con once they have stabilized and the opponent can not kill them. Tron is primarily attempting to get their win-con out asap, and plays cards which do not assist in stabilizing, such as expedition map and sylvan crying, to do so.

>>50315427
Did this >>50315453 but it's a massive waste of money. I build a few edh decks when they were cheap. Realized I like damia best, tried sultai in modern. Turns out I like sultai best in modern too

>>50321641
It takes up the control role a lot, so does Jund
I'm not saying it doesn't play control, it does but I wouldn't really classify it as a control deck. Playing it feels a lot like Jund, at least the Naya flavors do. Would you also say Jund is control?

>>50311137
Back to basics is already a card, but it should be reprinted.

>>50321724

Perhaps it should be mentioned that U-Tron plays more like a control deck. Yes, yes, "but U-tron is a bad deck!" is the meme of /modern/ but that meme hasn't stopped it from topping events.

>>50321724
>Tron is primarily attempting to get their win-con out asap
If this were the case the following cards, which literally cannot win the game, wouldn not be played in the deck: Karn, Pyroclasm, Oblivion Stone. Wurmcoil Engine would still be played even if it had defender since its primary role in the deck is to prevent your opponent profitable attacks, the fact that it can win the game with 4 hits is secondary. The reason Newlamog is played instead of the old one is the fact that is exiled 2 permanents on cast instead of destroying 1, therefore stabilizing better even though old Ulamog is a better wincon due to 1 more power and Annihilator. If Ugin couldn't minus he would be unplayable.
>>50321784
Jund is a control deck that often has to be the beatdown due to the nature of the meta (Tron being the better control deck or having to finish the game before Suicide Zoo/Bloo, Infect or Ad Nauseam can sculpt a hand that's a deterministic win, trying to go under Damnation in a BGx mirror). It draws cards with Bob, stabilizes with plenty of removal, creates card advantage with Lili and presents a clock with Tarmogoyf.

Midrange means fuck all and I wish people stopped using the term.

>>50321724
>assemble to different, but both specific combos

Fuck right off now, this is arbitrary. "Different, but specific" either of those halves are interchangeable with the other, to complete the same combo. That's the idea of redundancy. If they printed another twin and another pestermite, would it still be combo because the cards aren't of specific names anymore? so what about affinity, where the combo is redundant artifact creatures + plating/ravager?

In short, your definition of combo is wrong. It's not "assembling specific card names or less specific card names depending on what they do to get you a large advantage which may win you the game on the spot or may just give you a large enough advantage to make winning the game very likely", as far as I know a combo deck truly is "assemble a number of cards which create a situation in which the game immediately ends under ordinary circumstances".

The most powerful modern decks run on very little mana, so blowing up land 3 isn't necessarily game ending. T3 Karn on the play is literally just a stone rain under ordinary circumstances.

>tfw Ugin isn't 7 cmc

>>50321874
fucking good. He's a 4 mana wrath instead.

Also why the fuck is every time tron brought up there's some stupid autistic fuck that needs to try to point out it's archtype. It does a lot of things, it's a weird deck that falls into several archtypes. It needs to to be able to beat other archtypes.

>>50321874
Good, fuck ugin

>>50321847
Is Bant Company of SOI-Eldritch standard also a control deck because it's trying to grind out their cards and is often the beatdown but creates card advantage with stuff like tracker and coco and uses reflector mage to stabilize?

Why do people say midrange doesn't exist? They're the 'control' decks that guy from reddit was talking about closer to the 51% control range.

>>50322204
Makes me sad when he hits all my amalgams. Thank goodness that some amount of amalgams, bloodghasts + rally kills tron players faster than ugin.
Tron players, play 4 ugin and 4 SSG. That'd make me sad.

https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/53fwry/modern_scg_on_the_current_state_of_modern/d7tcc60/
not true that it's a control deck, but also not untrue

>>50322224
Bant doesn't answer the opponent's threats, mostly because it doesn't need to because its plays were the best on curve (compare Secret Paladin in HS) in the format and Reflector Mage generates tempo but isn't an answer, especially vs walkers. The deck never went answer->stabilization/CA->finish but just vomited its hand on curve every single time and took the beatdown role in every matchup it could. The fact that Tracker generated CA was incidental, it would have seen play even just a "goyf", same with Coco which was the best proactive thing you could do at 4 mana.
>>50322276
Irrelevant to the big picture.

>>50322276
Also, Oblivion Stone and Karn literally cannot win the game but are played because they're the best catch-all stabilizers at 7-8 mana.

>>50322292
isn't whether or not tron is a control deck the argument and big picture?
What is the big picture then?

>>50322315
The big picture is Tron's gameplan of never being the beatdown, stabilizing and the finishing the game when your opponent can't, the irrelevant detail is how Ugin can theoretically win the game by bolting your opponent 7 times or how Wurmcoil can swing at your opponent.

>>50322308
>Almost all of Tron's payoff cards are both stabilizers and win conditions to some extent

payoff stabilizers and win conditions
>newlamog
>ugin
>world breaker
>wurmcoil

payoff stabilizers only
>karn
>ostone

>>50322335
The point I was bringing up is that it isn't entirely true that tron is control but isn't untrue that it's not control. Tron occupies a weird spot.

>>50321285
>In any case, I think such 'meta' definitions for decks, in which you considered the designers, or the thoughts of the player when first viewing the cards, is not a good way to define deck types.

I would normally agree with you, but there is an issue where attempting to categorize certain decks into archetypes through specific textbook criteria and characteristics has created blurred lines where decks meet the definition but are near universally held by the community as a completely different archetype. At a point it is necessary to step back and take certain meta-considerations into account, such as designed, or even user intention.

Otherwise, it's very hard to staple any hard definition onto what makes a "combo" deck when you consider that every single deck in magic can be boiled down to a combination of cards used together to navigate a certain path to victory.

>>50322355
Forgot Pyroclasm or whatever spot removal the particular list runs, so total of 12 cards.
>newlamog
Sees play ínstead of oldmog or Emrakul because it answers 2 threats whether it resolves or not, is worse than both as a win condition. 1-2 of
>ugin
Acts as Oblivion Stone 5-6, incidentally can bolt face, first card to side out vs Affinity precisely because its theoretical capability to win the game doesn't matter. 1-2 of
>world breaker
Answers Inkmoth Nexus, random enchantments and artifacts, blocks fliers with a big ass. Definitely isn't played because it has 4 power. 0-2 of
>wurmcoil
Would see play even with defender, the fact it can swing is incidental. 1-4 of

So that's 12 can't win the games vs max 10 of can win the game.

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>>50306146
>Playing?
Currently American ThopterFoundry, FourColorGifts and Grixis Control
>Brewing?
Abzan Elves and RW Eldrazi right now
>Secret Tech?
Ceromonious Rejection against Affinity, Eldrazi and Tron
>Sleeves?
Used to use KMC Mattes but they split too much, so I started using DragonShields and dear lord they're good

>>50322553
>RW Eldrazi
got a list?

>>50322724
not that guy and not RW eldrazi but I saw this somewhere and saved it

1 Cavern of Souls
4 Eldrazi Temple
1 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
4 Urza's Tower
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Mine
4 Stomping Ground

4 Ancient Stirrings
3 Dismember
4 Kozilek's Return
4 Expedition Map
4 Talisman of Impulse

3 Conduit of Ruin
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
2 World Breaker

>>50315783
>worst creature in the deck.

>Flying 1 mana infect creature
>Bad

Reddit pls go

>>50322764
>but inky requires a mana to activate
isn't hit by sorcery removal
is still a land and dodges anything that says 'nonland permanent' because it's a land
and is still a land and produces mana, even if colorless

Is Sudden Shock basically the first and final red answer to infect?

>>50322972
That and Anger+Blood Moon.

>>50322983
Moon doesn't do that much honestly.
Anger and shock are really good though

>>50323034
It does when they don't fetch forests and/or you land it on t1/2. Shuts down Inkmoth.

>>50323116
That's why you leave a fetch up, although turn 2 moon really does suck, I'll admit that, but it's just not very common

does midrange junk still exist or has everyone moved on to combo versions?

>>50323476
It's the best version of the Deck, Abzan Company is pretty weak rn

>>50320241

Merfolk isn't combo. It's just Linear Aggro/Fish.

>>50323507
all the junk lists i'm looking up are just value creatures.dek and have a infinite combo with thune/spike feeder stuffed in

trying to see what I can buy to be able to convert my legacy junkblade into a modern pile-o-junk so I can use it on both nights

I'm basically looking for the old "jund but with path & lingering souls" version of the deck

What's a fun tier 2-3 deck I can build for <$300?

or do I just drop $50 for an Ula's Temple deck

>>50324033
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Dark Confidant
3 Scavenging Ooze
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
2 Marsh Flats
2 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
2 Shambling Vent
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Twilight Mire
2 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Collective Brutality
4 Blooming Marsh
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 2 Damnation
SB: 3 Kitchen Finks
SB: 1 Abzan Charm
SB: 1 Pithing Needle
SB: 1 Painful Truths
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB: 2 Rest in Peace
SB: 1 Thrun, the Last Troll
SB: 1 Collective Brutality
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Path to Exile
3 Marsh Flats
3 Windswept Heath
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
3 Shambling Vent
2 Twilight Mire
1 Swamp
1 Forest
1 Plains
1 Collective Brutality
1 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Grim Flayer
3 Noble Hierarch
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Mishra's Bauble
1 Murderous Cut
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Damnation
SB: 1 Collective Brutality
SB: 1 Abzan Charm
SB: 1 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 1 Liliana, the Last Hope
SB: 2 Surgical Extraction
SB: 2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
SB: 3 Fulminator Mage
SB: 1 Painful Truths

>>50320344

Right, but it has a huge chunk of its deck dedicated to piecing Tron lands together. It's more of a Control-combo or Big spell combo deck, dumps out a really fast Karn, Ugin, Wurmcoil etc.

>>50321724

>But if you can call it more than 1, it's aggro combo.

Not an actual deck archtype. Infect is Linear aggro.

>>50324052
copied and pasted from cockatrice, not really sorry
tasigur is kind of a nonbo with dark confidant but works nicely with flayer

here's another build that BBD posted

4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
2 Shambling Vent
1 Overgrown Tomb
2 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Gavony Township
1 Horizon Canopy
4 Blooming Marsh
2 Forest
1 Plains
1 Swamp
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Grim Flayer
4 Siege Rhino
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Anafenza, the Foremost
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
4 Path to Exile
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Zealous Persecution
SB: 2 Maelstrom Pulse
SB: 2 Nihil Spellbomb
SB: 2 Stony Silence
SB: 1 Curse of Death's Hold
SB: 2 Duress
SB: 1 Worship
SB: 2 Lost Legacy
SB: 2 Grafdigger's Cage
SB: 1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar

IMHO Jund is better because
Ravine > shambling vent/wildwood
terminate
bolt deals damage to their face, path can't

reasons why abzan is better
lingering sould
path exiles anything regardless of toughness
rhino
RIP
anafenza
abzan charm
gideon

>>50324052
neat, grim flayer/collective brutality/liliana last hope look fuckin sick

I haven't played in a while and didn't know if the deck had any new toys or if it was still just meme rhinos and voice of resurgence

>>50323476

It still exists but people still play so many variations. Abzan CoCo, Abzan Flash/Displacer, Wilt Leaf Abzan etc.

>>50324040
Bring to Light Scapeshift -- Bring to Light lets you skimp on copies of Scapeshift and fits a nice janky 66-67 card deck size.

>>50324102
Last Hope is really nice with Flayer and Tasigur. They just fill your grave and Lili gets back your creatures. Flayer also sets up draws and is a 4/4, just outside of bolt range. It also has trample, which means you can attack with it, let them block it, then use a removal spell to get through for 4. This is well known but still something to keep in the back of your mind.

>>50324094
Yes it is retard.

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Fuck me so many people in this thread are fucking bad at knowing what MTG decks are.

MTG has four approaches to deckbuilding. Aggro, Midrange, Control, Combo. Within those four approaches splits up into four more specific categories which some decks either occupy a single slot or cover multiple aspects.

Tron is quite clearly the Big Spell/Control-Combo side of the picture. It plays a bunch of spells dedicated to finding its land pieces to assemble quickly like a combo deck would normally do(Expedition Map, Ancient Stirrings, Chromatic Star etc.) which also double up as finding its key big threat pieces that it wants to resolve. Tron doesn't usually care about anything other than ideally just wanting to assemble its key lands fast and then resolving its biggest most powerful spell at a time when you probably can't deal with it yet. It doesn't have to end the game there and then right on the spot where it casts Karn, Ugin, O-stone etc. It is quite happy to keep dragging the game out and make you think you have a chance when it just keeps up building an inevitable situation that you can't deal with.

>>50324302

Maybe when you stop being bad at MTG. So never then.

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>>50321154
>A combo deck must be a supersikrit interaction
>What is show and tell+emrakul

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>>50324261
>Draw go
>Unfair
>When all the counterspells are 1 for 1
>Removal is 1 for 1
>Only real "unfair" cards are boardwipes, and those are hardly unfair
Your chart is shit. but tron is Combo

>>50324261
literally fucking retarded. Piss off desolatormagic

>>50324447
Two very poorly designed cards from different eras of the game. We're mostly talking about modern here though.

>>50324630
>Decktypes only apply to modern!

>>50324630
What about storm? One of the most typical combo decks. Literally just play a spell that likes lots of spells and then spells that power out more spells

>>50324653
Yeah don't bother making arguments or try to add any depth to the discussion, just shit post. that proves you win.

Good job you won. Now please leave so the losers can decide second place.

>>50324682
>Show and tell + emrakul is a combo deck, ergo any combo deck does not need to be super complicated to be a combo
>No, because is not modern legal
>???
Your logic is awesome, obviously.

>>50324682
>ascendancy storm was a standard deck. Literally a pile of spells and a card that cares about playing spells
>Twin was in standard. Tap for a guy, guy untaps when made. So straightforward.

>>50324667
I'm only spitballing my personal opinions here, but I think R&D severely underestimated storm. Most players who saw tendrils of agony for the first time never imagined they could make it kill an opponent in one go when it was first printed. I imagine likewise for grapeshot. It took a deck purpose built around the strategy of chaining rituals and cantrips that stretched the mechanic to an outright bizarre degree to make it happen, but it did happen. And those decks, which can accomplish nothing other than storm kills, are the dedicated storm combo decks we know.

I wonder if this is why R&D frowns on storm now.

>>50324698
When did I ever say that combo decks had to be complicated? I only ever said they were usually unintuitive, or use the cards in a manner other than their intended design. Emrakul was not designed to be shit out from a 3 mana sorcery. Although honestly show and tell was intended to be a 3 mana "shit out something stupid" sorcery, which is why I said it's a bad card. I never said combos only existed in modern either you retard. I said "We're mostly talking about modern here though" because the scope of the discussion up unto this point was in regards to how decks are categorized in THE MODERN FORMAT. because this is THE MODERN THREAD.

>>50321154
>>50324630
So is dredge a special snowflake intuitive deck because it's combo?
>>50324748
chaining rituals to stretch a card isn't new. The first combo channel-fireball is just that.
They hate storm because new players don't understand how they lost to it. A 5/5 dragon hitting you 4 times makes sense. A cycle of rituals and can trips doesn't. Most new players didn't understand how sphinx's rev wins the game. It doesn't deal damage so how!?! That's why new players bitched about it so hard.
Storm combo, and spell based combos will always be heavily watched (Scapeshift is just barely getting by their radar) because they go against the design of nu-magic. Which is creatures, very straightfoward spells, or planeswalkers are supposed to win the game

Really really feeling like building a token deck around hanweir militia captain and sigarda.
Any tips lads?

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>>50324853
just one

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>>50324878

>>50324812
>The first combo channel-fireball is just that.
What? The channel fireball combo didn't really require chaining together a series of cards to work, if you had channel and fireball you just won. it was another example of cards being used in ways the designers and most players did not particularly anticipate. In those early days of the game it was assumed players would value their life points tremendously rather than using them as a resource, as is the current philosophy we all know.

I'm not saying you are wrong though.

I do not understand your first sentence about dredge though, I believe I am fluent in english but sometimes I still do not understand some sentences

>>50324901
Then perhaps read the reply chain and use context clues

>>50324943
I will try.
>So is dredge a special snowflake intuitive deck because it's combo?
I do not believe dredge is an intuitive deck, but I also do not believe dredge (in modern) is a combo deck. It's more of an aggro deck that is resistant to removal because it operates from the graveyard. The act of operating from the graveyard is what makes the deck unintuitive because it seeks to cast enabler spells that dump cards in the graveyard rather than cast the cards directly as a more straight forward deck like zoo or jund would do.

is this reply correct to what you were asking?

>>50325010
I wasn't asking shit. A third party letting you know to read the fucking thread you goddamn mong

>>50325061
I posted
>>50321154
I have been reading this thread for a very long time.

>>50325085
Then you should know what he was saying when he posted the dredge combo intuitive bullshit. Don't try to act like youre some sort of intellectually superior specimen when you can't even read what he posted

>>50325109
Lol I still do not understand desu (to be honest)

>combo decks are often unintuitive

Says nothing about the nature of combo decks. The dude who originally talked about combo decks implied that a combo had to not be obvious in order to be a combo; what about the Station set from Mirrodin block? And those are an infinite combo with their intended use.

If he's taken back his statement now, saying that simply *most* combos are unintended or unintuitive, then he's made a completely moot point regarding defining combo decks.

>>50325184

>desu (to be honest)

desu, how fucking new are you?

>>50315482

since nobody is shitting on this deck I'm just going to assume it's sleeper and build it, yeah?

>>50325646
Quite new it looks like, desu ( shit at this point I just type out the word desu instead of teebeeh)

>>50325662
Or it's so generic and shit nobody cares it's that one

>>50325662
>Green
>Tribal
>Doesn't have CoCo

It's shit desu

Fuck fucking cast effects. Fuck the fucking Eldrazi tribal bullshit.

>>50325845

I-it has Coco in the sideboard for matchups like eldrazi where it needs the card advantage quickly, most other matchups it's fine with the usual hand hate and card advantage from haakon as it finds him

>>50325748
>make deck using cards people don't use
>it's shit, use good cards
>make deck with tried and true cards and other cool interactions
>it's generic

can never make you fuckers happy

I'm going to keep playing it because it makes me happy to dredge an imp, buff kotr by 2, and Lili it back into grave and it makes me happy to 2 for 2 with brutality and cast out haakon. Can't ask for better.

>>50325867

t. buttmad draw go player

>>50325867
Eldrazi were a mistake

>>50325972
Hey man don't get buttmad if you post a generic homebrew with some "spicy tech" and someone calls it what it is. But don't let it stop you from playing it and having fun. GBW ain't exactly the perfect colours to brew in, they are goodstuff colours and your deck showcases that

>>50325867
Cause creatures aren't good enough right?

>>50325867
But what about Mimic decks? Viable only in other formats.

>tfw having a good deck in your favorite colours involves dropping hundreds on value town cards

Just kill me

>>50325867
just maindeck 4 trickbind problem solved :^)

>>50326283
What you playing? Jund? Sultai? Abzan?

>>50326283
Jund, junk, bug, rug, Esper, or grixis?

>>50326223
When you cast X effects on permanents are fine and good.
When you cast X effects on cards in hand are degenerate bullshit. But fuck why stop there? Why not give cards in hand landfall triggers, or when a creature attacks triggers, or what the fuck ever. When the only clear immediate answers to any particular something are Stifle or Thoughtseize, you fucked up.

I just want shardless agent in this format man, is that too much to ask?

>>50326706
If they won't give us back BBE, what make you think they'd give us that?

>>50326727
It's cheaper so it cascades into less, doesn't have haste, and isn't in Jund colors, it's in blue.

>>50326328
>>50326363
Green is my favorite colour along with Abzan and Sultai being my favorite clans

I will never have Goyfs or Lilis

>>50326762
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5mTCy3gyKJY

>>50326768
thank you based pirate chinks

>>50326796
ur welcome

>his favorite clan isn't Mardu

baka desu famalam

Why is it that whenever Dredge is being discussed in the context of powerevels and bans that people always assume it draws the nuts and puts all of their amalgams or bloodghasts into play by t2? People do realize that doesn'thappen every game right?

>>50327479
Why is it that whenever Tron s being discussed in the context of powerevels and bans that people always assume it draws the nuts and puts all of their Karns or Ugins into play by t3? People do realize that doesn't happen every game right?

>>50326736

>It's cheaper so it cascades into less
That's a good thing you stupid mother fucker. You can build around your mana costs more cleanly. Cascade into ancestral visions consistently and still run 3 drops. Etc

Why do you think living end runs the two shittiest cascade spells at 3cmc?

>>50327479
It doesn't always have to draw the nuts, a t1 dredge will often dredge into the nuts by dredging more GGTs off of the first dredge and it just gets wacky tobaccy from there. It's more likely to get the nuts because it's nuts is anywhere in the top 13-20 instead of just the top 7.

>>50327479
Because you have 8 copies of of recurring bodies. eight copies of a card to dump them with Looting and Reuinion - two of which will probably be cast by T2. And by T3 if you fail to dump them, you will have dumped cards with Dredge 3, 5 or 6, of which you also have 11-12 copies.

I'm just making up fucking numbers because I'm not going to do the stats for you, but it seems to me that if you have some sort of average draw, you will have dug somewhere on average 20 (7 opening hand +13 additional) cards into your deck by T3 if not more.

That's so consistent it's not even funny.

>>50327862

And on top of that, your draws can dredge in and of themselves. If you've got hugs and kisses mother in your hand, discard one GGT and some junk and dredge 6, hit an imp off draw 2, dredge 5, hit another GGT, dredge 6.

That just requires 2 other dredgers be nowhere near the top of your deck, because your initial draw spells says "draw a card. draw a card. draw a card." and lets you replace with dredges as you dredge things.

>>50306146
>What are you playing?

Jund

>What are you brewing?

New ways to Jund people out.

>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?

My LGS didn't have one this week.

>What's your super secret tech?

Filigree Familiar as an alternative to Kitchen Finks.

>What sleeves do you use?

KMC Hyper Mattes with Perfect Fits for the inner sleeve.

Is xmage down?

>>50328071
>Filigree Familiar as an alternative to Kitchen Finks.

how's that working out for you? I want to try the same thing

>>50328161

It's being all fucky, yeah.

>>50328189
It helps to sure up the Affinity matchup because it can block Etched Champion and not costing double green means that you can still cast the Familiar through Blood Moon (a 3-of in my current sideboard).

I'm not sure if it's better than Finks but it's not a million miles away.

File: 9luQXl.jpg (60KB, 486x640px)

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>>50306146
>What are you playing?
Infect

>What are you brewing?
I secretly want to play bant eldrazi, I used to play eldrazi before it got banned,

>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
Last FMN I went to, I did pretty well, only lost against Jund.

>What's your super secret tech?
One basic island. I run into blood moon way too fucking often, fuck that. I know it's not smart or anything but it works so well.

>What sleeves do you use?
KMC Premium Hyper Mattes. these are amazing. So nice. So silky.

>>50328224
Interesting, didn't even think about the etched champion interaction.

>>50327736
>That's a good thing you stupid mother fucker. You can build around your mana costs more cleanly. Cascade into ancestral visions consistently and still run 3 drops. Etc
You clearly don't get why BBE was banned
It wasn't about being able to manipulate what you cascaded into, it's that anything it cascaded into was already efficient in itself that it made the card that much more powerful

>>50328859

That's why it was banned in Jund. Do you honestly think Shardless would get played in a goodstuff value deck? No, it'd be a combo piece.

>>50328888
In what? Restore Balance?
Living end already runs the two Cascade cards that fit it's colors. All it'd be is a goodstuff card, a weaker BBE in weaker colors

>>50328903

I don't know senpai. I'm not wizards R&D. All I know is that more cascade is not a good thing.

>>50324529
2 for 1s isn't what unfair is. No one calls divination unfair.
Unfair refers to the ability to respond to what your opponent is doing. Textbook unfair deck is storm, you're given very little opportunities to respond, and at times when you can respond pretty much only counter spells will do. The contrast is a very creature heavy deck, which lets you use counter spells, 1 for 1 removal, board wipes if you last long enough, block with your own creatures, and so on. The more avenues you have to interact with a deck, the more fair it is.
Most decks just can't interact with draw go. They interact with you, but not you with them.

>>50309150
Stop banning every combo and control tech and leave only midrange and goodstuff decks for Magic: The Tappening

>>50328985
I'm just saying that I'd like to have it in modern to allow for some kind of Temur or Sultai goodstuffs which seems lacking
There aren't any more real options for the cascade mechanic, the decks that abuse it have already been figured out and they aren't doing particularly well. Shardless is a harmless addition that could allow for some cool decks. I can see it in some kind of Thing in the Ice Temur burn deck with Swiftspear and atarkhas, which would be neat
Actually that would probably be really good now that I think about it, it could play the burn game with a free ancestral recall

>>50328888
>Do you honestly think Shardless would get played in a goodstuff value deck?
I do

Fuck with shardless, you could get really spicy and run wheel of fate
>play burn/midrangey game
>run out of fuel
>cascade into fate, draw 7, continue to rape
only problem is it would be a shitty card to topdeck which is a legitimate problem

>>50329110
I feel like wheel of fate wouldn't be good mainboard with all these fast decks running around. Good sideboard tech maybe.

>>50327479
Because it does, Dredge sees more cards that any other deck in Modern with basically any draw. It has the proactive power of Amulet Bloom with the consistency of burn in a format where every other deck is at the mercy of their opener and top 2-3 cards and have to play Draw: the Sideboarding instead of Magic: the Gathering.
>>50327679
Good thing neither of those things win you the game on the spot.
>boohoo UW control always casts detentiom sphere on turn 3 and wog on turn 4
>>50329013
This definition sucks because it makes your opponent's deck type a function of your card choices. Draw-go isn't more fair vs 8rack which by its design can interact with every card in the control player's arsenal and unfair vs goblins.

>>50328208
lol null pointer exception

>>50329400
Fairness is a scale. The more you can interact with a deck, the more fair it is. Draw-go, like storm, is very much on the lower end of the scale. Blue being able to interact with a deck doesn't make that deck fair, because blue can interact with anything.
It's not a function of what cards you're playing, it's a function of the options available. Decks with more options to interact with them are fairer than decks with fewer options. There are few choices available for interacting with storm beyond counter spells. And not every color combination has access to counterspells, so often it's not that a player has chosen to not interact with storm, it's that they didn't have the options to.

>>50306146
>What are you playing?
Naya Burn

>What are you brewing?
Affinity

>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
No because the only decks at my LGS are Jeskai and Junk, and I fucking hate Jskai and Junk.

>What's your super secret tech?
Running Soulfire Grandmaster instead of Kor Firewalker

>What sleeves do you use?
Orange Dragonshields with KMC Perfect Fit inner sleves
costs me like 20 bucks to sleeve my deck, but they're practically waterproof now.

>>50328859
BBE was banned because Wizards didn't want to admit that the problem was their brand new one drop.

>>50329110
Or you could be sensible and just put Shardless Agent into Living End.

>>50316393
>What is Dismember

>>50326762
Then get Grim Flayer, Sylvan Advocate and new Lili

>>50326768
what's gong on here?
Is he just showing off? Is he 'predicting'/hoping what's going to be in Moderm Masters 3?

>>50330733
they're fakes. He's showing how real they look. The guy prints and sells fake cards.

>>50330746
oh
they do look real, got me
How would you know that those in particular are fake?

>>50330733
Chinamen fakes. I couldn't even think of a sarcastic response to such an obvious question

>>50330722
>Grim Flayer is $25.99 at my LGS
>Liliana, Last hope is $44.99 at my LGS

pls no

>>50330753
They could be real and he's just pretending they're fake and he'll send you shitty ones. But that guy has a decent reputation for making good fakes. If you're asking how to differentiate between good fakes and real cards, you can use a loupe to look at the printing patterns. No fakes currently mimic the real printing process well enough to appear similar under close inspection.

>>50310079
imagine burning inquiry with spirit of the labyrinth

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Is jeskai nahiri dead now because of dredge?

I just started buying into it, should I switch to mardu nahiri?

>>50330772
I played against someone who had spirit of the labyrinth and geier reach sanitarium and would use GRS on my upkeep so I'd lose my draw.

>>50330786
Play RW moon+chalice+wrath+anger Nahiri, the amount of free wins you clown vs creature aggro is spectacular and Nahiri+Gideon are decent vs BGx as well.

>>50330757
>Tarmogoyf $119 low on SCG
>Liliana of the Veil $89 low on SCG
Flayer and Last Hope are cheaper than goyf and Veil.

>inb4 SCG sucks
It's about the comparison of Goyf to Flayer and Veil to Last Hope.

>>50330819
I think blood moon is pretty lame, even if it's a good "meta check" card.

How does that deck not eat shit against dredge though? 4 angers?

>>50330890
because multiple angers
blood moon takes them off of loam
chalice on 1 fucks up neonate and looting if they're on the play with SSG

If it's the fetch+shock dredge, they can play around anger and I've been playing 1 forest SB because of how prevalent blood moon is for me

>>50330828
I think I'm willing to wait long enough and see if BG delirium gets pushed out of it's "one of two best decks in standard" slot once Aether Revolt releases and just hope they go down in price. I'm in no rush and I gotta save cash

>>50308811
This

>>50330890
What the other guy said + 4 rips in the sb

I know the archetype is just worse than dredge but does anyone have a UB zombie list?
I'm looking for something with lords, Gravecrawler, Relentless Dead and Amalgam.
with or without Golgari Grave-Troll, Life from the Loam, CoCo and other green spells

>>50330786
if you think that jeskai nihiri is dead then why wouldnt mardu nahiri be? I personally either the strongest nahiri shell is either jeskai or RW moon

>>50331472
jeskai nahiri straight up can't beat dredge.

>>50330786

RW Prison is good
some play 4x relic of progenitus maindeck like (Skred/BloodMoonRising) as a cycler catch-all
Bridge and Anger of the Gods maindeck stick it to dredge pretty good

>>50326768
>>50326796
>>50326808
Fakes support communist criminals. Don't buy fakes.

>>50330828
>It's about the comparison of Goyf to Flayer and Veil to Last Hope.
Why not use somebody elses prices then?

>>50331892

The self-appointed mtg hall-monitor is here to tell you it's wrong to buy proxies guys

>>50331839
>Rest in peaece
>Ghostly prision
>Anger of the gods
Add cage, and you get my git gud

>>50331892
>Don't support communist scum
>Support jew criminal scum
Thanks, now jews can do whatever they want to, cause holocaust

>>50331892
Are you seriously shit posting in two threads over thhe same thing?

>>50331472
Jeskai>Mardu

>>50332002
>rip
you know jeskai runs snaps right?

>>50332071
>I can't sideboard accordly to the match up!!
Have you thought which one is more useful in that particular case?

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>>50332071
>>50331839
You jusr side RIP. Shutting off snap doesn't matter at all if your opponent's deck just stops functioning entirely. Counterspells are also actually very good against dredge

The matchup is still poor though

>>50332099
has Cryptic then been removed at all?

File: jeskai nahiri.png (242KB, 1153x907px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50332115
Some lists still run one or two, I've cut it because it warps the manabase and I don't think it's worth it

Here's my dredge sideboard setup if anyone cares btw

>>50332084
RR can be hard for jeskai to manage. I still play anger mb because of how bad the mu is g1 anyways.

They also get to run a lot of enchantment hate, which sucks a lot too.

>>50332099
have you tried hopping on the GDD meme train?

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>>50332163
>have you tried hopping on the GDD meme train?
I think Grixis is better for that. I'd also try it if tron becomes more popular

For now I'm sticking with the cutest Hitler because of her versatility

>>50332163
Gdd meme? Thats too fresh for me to know off the top of my head

>>50332181
I just noticed there's only 1 Tarn.

How's that working out with Spirebluff?

>>50332239
3 mesa 1 tarn 4 strand is actually intentional because getting basic plains is really important versus blood moon decks; once you have plains you can always topdeck nahiri and exile moon

Spirebluff is a godsend and saves a lot of life being able to T1 SV/AV/bolt without taking damage. If you sequence your lands right, not being able to T4 nahiri barely ever happens

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So anons, I'm making a shitty budget white deck to play with my friends. I want to make it around surviving with lifes, defenders, exile stuff and then attacking with myth realized. These are my current cards:
4 aegis of the gods
3 banishing light
2 ethereal armor
3 font of vigor
4 myth realized
4 Nyx-Fleece Ram
3 oblivion ring
3 oppressive rays
4 timely reinforcements
19 plains

I am still new to the game so you can go and insult my deckbuilding which is probably quite bad, but I would appreciate some advice.

>>50332453
there are decks around that idea
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/490942-soul-sisters

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/582574-martyrproc-a-modern-control-deck-updated

I'd recommend you to go UW if you want to use Myth Realized so you can run cantrips

>>50332237
Goblins dark dwellers.

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>>50306146
>What are you playing
Currently nothing as I am broke
>What are you brewing
Trying to actually build a competitive UG Infect the problem is Inkmoth Nexus is 25 dollars a pop
>Do You Go To FNM?
Yes but not to play Standard my lgs is fairly slow so when standard doesn't have enough people to fire it becomes EDH Beerhall Night.
>What is your super secret tech?
Turn Aside is in my sideboard for my Infect deck it is quiet nice to counter a spell that targets my creature for one blue and most people arnt prepared for it.
>What Sleeves do you use?
I have gone back and forth but so the KMC Hyper Matte Sleeves are my favorite and are the best overall in my opinion.

>>50333313
>Turn Aside is in my sideboard for my Infect deck it is quiet nice to counter a spell that targets my creature for one blue and most people arnt prepared for it.
nigga every infect list ever already runs multiple copies of Apostle's Blessing, Vines of Vastwood and Blossoming Defense and those all do what Turn Aside does but better

i probably already know the answer to this but is it possible to make a deck from scratch that wont get utterly blow the fuck out for under 200 bucks? i really want to get into modern but that initial cost is ridiculous from what ive seen

>>50333361
You can easily make an FNM playable modern deck for 100-200

monogreen stompy costs like 50 and is very competitive

>>50333351
>didnt know what blossoming defense is
>looked it up
Well than scratch that turn aside is coming out of the sideboard

>>50333414
>wants to make infect
>doesn't know about good infect cards
wewe lad

>>50332269
I would swap one out with a checkland, just to be safe. Have you thought of trying Corey Burkhart's Grixis? Seems like the best "if my vision comes off of suspend I win" deck.

>>50332022
that's what i said

>>50333466
I've played a lot of grixis but not that exact list, it looks good but I still prefer Jeskai

Corey's list is probably the best Grixis Control configuration. If you want to play discard, you'd have to completely change the deck because it's designed to T1-T2 Ancestral/Serum Visions and Thought Scour then just never tap out again. I've been playing it and Corey suggested swapping Spirebluff Canal for Bloodstained Mire but I've basically only been playing against Blood Moon decks so I swapped it out for a Swamp.

K-Command and Tasigur are the real reasons to play Grixis over Jeskai. Jeskai gives you access to Path (v terminate), colonnade (v tar pit) and Sphinx's Revelation, which Alex something used as his super draw spell over Corey's Ancestral Vision.

Alex something's Jeskai Control Top 4 at GP Dallas

3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Torrential Gearhulk

1 Ajani Vengeant

4 Serum Visions
3 Supreme Verdict

4 Path to Exile
2 Lightning Bolt
1 Lightning Helix
3 Logic Knot
1 Mana Leak
1 Negate
2 Electrolyze
3 Think Twice
4 Cryptic Command
2 Sphinx's Revelation

4 Flooded Strand
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
3 Island
1 Plains
3 Sulfur Falls
2 Glacial Fortress
3 Celestial Colonnade
1 Ghost Quarter

1 Lightning Helix
1 Negate
1 Blessed Alliance
1 Celestial Purge
1 Condemn
1 Dispel
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Runed Halo
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Vendilion Clique

>>50334421
Collonade and Gearhulk are the real finishers in Jeskai. I've been thinking about adding one Geahulk to Corey's Grixis build due to a lack of threats but Tasigur is normally more than enough. Especially with K-Command getting back Tasigur and Snap.


>Game three against Skred
>I'm on Corey's Grixis
>Countersquall twice for 4 damage
>attack with tasigur once before it gets skredded
>attack with snapcaster mage 10 times
>opponent at 2 life
>opponent has like 8 mana is dead drawing into nothing
>know they have the redirect trap because I surgicaled stormbreath and koth
>have bolt in hand
>opp topdecks rabblemaster, makes a goblin
>attack snap into rabblemaster forcing the trade
>opponent proceeds to attacks with 1/1 goblin until I die because blood moon and he destroyed my only swamp and I need to draw a second bolt and can't

>>50334490
attack with snap for 10 damage, not 10 times
only 5 times

>>50334421
>tfw got K-Commanded 8 times in 1 game today
that was painful

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>>50334529
I did this today.
>KCommand his draw step, add back Snap
>opp passes
>play 1 mana Tasigur
>during draw step, play Snap
>about to snap back KCommand again

New thread gents

>>50334664
>>50334664
>>50334664

>>50306146
>What are you playing?
Nothing
>What are you brewing?
Treefolk
>Did you go to FNM? How did you do?
My gay ass town doesn't have a game store and I want to die
>What's your super secret tech?
It's a secret
>What sleeves do you use?
matte black ultrapro, either getting green dragon shields or custom sleeves for my treefolk deck

>>50331012

It most likely won't. Rock-style decks very rarely get pushed out of standard if nothing is rotating out. In fact they usually just get better or adapt.