Notable Mercenaries Edition The /btg/ is dead - long live t

Reposted from last thread.

Oh and Butte Hold and all that shit.

I need some advice for a game i'm trying to set up this coming sunday.

I'm trying to introduce my long time group to the basics of Alpha Strike(using the Introductory Alpha Strike rules in the AS core book) and was wondering if those were in desperate need of any of the additions added to the game via the Companion book or whether we could manage without. It'll be played with the Hex map conversion rules already but is there anything else we NEED to add for such an intro game?

>>50295406
>not putting battletech in the title box
Thou hast bodged it, namefag

>>50295877
Whoops. Sorry. I had been posting elsewhere and forgot. My bad.
Totally my fault.

Did the Invasion-era Nova Cats have a lot of Timber Wolf mechs? I was looking at the Revival trials sourcebook and they had a bunch of T Wolves in their heavy RAT, like only one less than Clan Wolf itself.

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Here's some notable mercs...

>>50296069
>Adam Ant and Samurai Kitty

Never change, Battletech.

>>50296165
>Adam Ant and Samurai Kitty

Is that supposed to be a reference to something? Because I don't get it.

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How old again was Natasha in this pic?
Was she a GILF by this point?

>>50296187
Adam Ant is a singer you uncultured swine.

There was mention of a tactics guide to flanking in the last thread. Does anyone have it saved? I can use all the help I can get.

>>50296251
>Adam Ant
>singer

<googles>

Oh. For old people. OK then. Thanks.

>>50296256
It wasn't this by any chance, was it?
https://benhrome.wordpress.com/category/gaming/battletech/strategy-and-tactics/

>>50296256
I don't have the guide saved, but the basic idea is deploying in a line to meet the enemy line. As his line advances, one side of yours falls back and the other moves to join it in crushing the enemy flank that meets yours first. Look up "refused flank" on wikipedia or something for more details.

>>50296415
>listening to benny boy on tactics

hah, fuck no

>>50296415
Why are you namefagging, especially if you can't even contribute?

>>50296452
Suck his dick, faggot. Who cares what you think?

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>>50296256

It was pic related, though I don't have the text that came with it.

>>50296268

You have to be 18 to post on 4chan.

>>50296553

Really?

>>50296441
>>50296452
Hell, I am just having one bad day. Sorry guys.

>>50296268
>old people
>posting in a battletech thread

>>50296635
>It was pic related, though I don't have the text that came with it.

I don't understand still. I'm sorry. What's all this supposed to mean?

>>50297106
You swing your center to hit one flank, and pull your opposite flank in to keep their center away. You break through the flank where you sent the center, then swing the former center and that flank to hit the enemy center on the flank. Then you move your entire force to hit the enemy far flank.

>>50296635
>>50297106

OK, step by step.
Map) Each square is a friendly (blue) or enemy unit of approximately equal size. You can probably assume a lance per square right now. Green is terrain which slows an enemy and/or blocks LOS.
1) You deploy in such a way that the enemy (which has heavier, less mobile units than you) is strung out across the board. For example, deploying a fast force on one flank can "bait" the enemy into countering that deployment directly.
2) You move to concentrate your forces on one flank. In this case, the right moves to the right, the center moves to the right, and the left moves to the center. Because you've got faster/more maneuverable forces (ie, jumpers), you can bypass the hindering terrain.
3) Your center and right forces concentrate fire on the enemy left, achieving local superiority, and destroy it. The enemy right (on your left) is isolated by the terrain and cannot help. Your left-flank unit has moved to engage the enemy center in a delaying action. Thier job is not to kill the enemy center, but to hold it in place until...
4) Your right and center forces converge on the enemy center force, destroying it. During this time, the enemy right (on your left) has almost certainly tried to move towards the center to help reinforce it.
5) The enemy right has moved into the center, and now faces a significant numerical disadvantage, from the surviving elements of your entire force.

The thing that makes a tactic like this work is recognizing whether or not the terrain you're fighting on is favorable or not (this doesn't work well on a salt flat). You also need to recognize if your enemy can maneuver with you; if they can keep up, it fails. This tactic exploits superior speed/maneuverability in order to isolate enemy forces and destroy them in detail.

Like I said last thread, NEA knows what he's talking about. This is as simple a guide as you could ask. It's also better than the Ben Rome guide; CGL is pretty bad at tactics.

>>50297461
>CGL is pretty bad at tactics.
Not when you can throw $500 at an Awesome to repair it to full midfight.

>>50297480

You don't have to be good at tactics when you can buy your way out of problems. Like not having a nice porch.

>>50296635
>reading down columns instead of across

NEA you useless boy-loving lala-man, why did you do this?

>>50297461
>The thing that makes a tactic like this work is recognizing whether or not the terrain you're fighting on is favorable or not
>You also need to recognize if your enemy can maneuver with you

How do you learn this?

>>50297593
Practice and knowing the capabilities of mechs.

>>50297593

Playing, trying it, and losing a lot. A big chunk of knowing when and where to use different tactical schemes just comes from simple experience and after-action analysis.

>>50297657

Not him, but that seems like kind of a shitty way to learn. What about books or simulations where it's not for keeps the way it is in a real game of BT?

>>50297480
>>50297524
And now you see how the Lyrans win

>>50297593
Read a lot of military history, and practice. The former is why guys at West Point today still read about Gaugamela or Cannae or whatever. The basic principles never really change.

>>50297889
>simulations

You mean...some kind of...game?

>>50295442

Nice to know someone can get a question answered in here.

>>50298046
Fuck off

>>50298046
it's been 4 hours and it's a friday. Most people here are out actually having fun and/or a life.

As for your question, you don't *need* to add anything else, the intro rules are the intro rules for a reason. My advice is to have an 'intro +' version of the rules at hand, so that if your players want more crunch you have it immediately available.

>>50298046
>thread contains multiple other questions being answered
>be a passive aggressive bitch because nobody's gotten to yours yet

I hear the Companion is near-mandatory, but I've never played AS. With this answer, go, and be a bitch no more.

>>50298046

You asked about Alpha Strike. Nobody who's a real battletech fan plays that, so it's not surprising your question isn't being answered.

>>50297947

Oh...yeah. That was a pretty stupid question, wasn't it? Sorry.

I got a question for starting up a new game with newbies.
Some of my players rolled up bugs like Wasps and Stingers, but there's not much for them to fight other than Scorpion tanks, APCs and maybe infantry. The story calls for them to be in those bugs, and I want to throw a challenge at them, but nothing that would tear through those 20 ton mechs' paper thin armor.
Is there any challenges I can use that would break them into their assigned mechs without having to reroll larger machines?

>>50298354
No. Even scorpion tanks are a legit threat 1v1.

>>50298354
Bugs dueling each other can be a hell of a lot of fun, you could also make them team up to fight something bigger then them, say a bug lance against a Phoenix Hawk. With armor that thin though everything is a real threat. They just need to get good.

>>50298354

Let them reroll. Bugs are no fun for anybody unless the players are running something like a company of bugs each. PCs in a persistent campaign shouldn't really be driving anything smaller than 35 tons (maybe 30 if one of them is an Urbie fetishist). The stuff under that mass simply can't participate in enough types of missions to be worthwhile and enjoyable for more than 1-2 games.

>>50298354
Throw em against some turbojunker vees with AC2s and BAR 5 armor so their MLs will be actually effective.

>>50296044
The Wolves had the most, followed by the Coyotes (as allies), then the Smoke Jaguars and Nova Cats from isorla of countless trials, then all the other Clans. But just about everyone had some.

>>50298756

It's important to remember, though, that even the Wolves themselves only had something like 50 Timber Wolves in total, and everyone else had less. It's by no means a common design, no matter what the RATs say.

>>50298392
>>50298542
>>50298586
>>50298614
Thanks a bunch. I will try to convince them to reroll. Maybe I can get them into some Jenners or something.
I was a little afraid of having to do a series of technicals and having a game of "truck strong."

>>50298799
If they like their bugs, let them have their bugs. The mission will be to investigate X that will grant them salvage for a heavier machine.

>>50298885

That's... not a bad idea. I might use this.

>>50298799
Talk them into huntsmen and Jenner iics and the like.

>>50298903
Give them a chance to raid an enemy camp. Big mechs go after the enemy guards, bugs load up inferno SRMs, torch the barracks, and machine-gun anyone who tries to get to a mech.

>>50298793
I LOVE THIS MEME

>>50299167

I'm tired of it. Thusly, research:

There are 59 Mad Cats of varying configuration in the Clan Wolf Phone Book. I say "Mad Cat" because there's a JumpShip that's called the "Timber Wolf" which initially fucked up my count until I went back and counted through the second time to make sure.

You people can make of that number what you will. Whether it's the best source, or whatever, I don't care. But it's incontrovertible fact that there are a total of 59 Mad Cats listed in the Clan Wolf Touman as of Tukayyid. I'll check back in when I get back from ice hockey and see what hath been wrought from this information.

>>50299167

>meme
>backed up by primary sources

Pick one.

The Heavies the Clans shat out in great numbers are the Mad Dog and Summoner. In terms of raw numbers, everything else pales into isnignificance.

I don't think it matters too much as long as you're not playing a Blood Spirit Cluster consisting of nothing but Timber Wolves though.

>>50299364
Isn't that only counting like a third of their entire touman? Not reserves, homeworld resources, frontline troops in the homeworlds, etc?

>>50299522

If the Wolves left any front-line troops in the Homeworlds there would have been no more than 4 Clusters there any way. Their second-liners relied on SLDF machines with no Omnis usually reserved for Star Commander or higher, and given the setup of everything else we saw you can probably expect those to mostly be Gargoyles or Ice Ferrets any way.

You can mount a decent argument for there being no front-line forces left in the Homeworlds given the Wolves took one Cluster with them in their bid that had to be rebuilt for like a year before seeing combat after losses sustained in the Refusal to the Invasion.

>>50299603
Valid. I'm actually surprised the Wolf touman wasn't bigger.

>>50299710

I think the Wolves are a lot bigger than what was listed in their SB, but not in ways that are going to really going to inflate the count of Timber Wolves.

Anything else they've got will be like 2/3rds or more of Gargoyles, Ice Ferrets and Adders like the units that haven't gotten Linebackers yet.

I think there's at least another 20 Clusters back in the Homeworlds but the Wolves before the Refusal War seem to have relied on an elite cadre of front-liners to handle their Trials in offence or defence any way, and the Invasion had a gentleman's agreement not to go after the Invading Clans.

>>50299364

59/786 'Mechs.

Marginally better than one per Trinary, seems pretty rare to me.

>>50299364
>>50299603
>>50300058

So, does this mean that the meme is actually correct? Does being emperically proven right strengthen a meme, or kill it?

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>>50298354
I actually was in this very same situation in my most recent game. I stuck the players in a militia, and they all rolled up one each of the bug mechs.

Here's what I did for them
-Offer them support if they're on the offensive A few scorpion tanks to draw some attention is often all you need.

-Opponents to go up against: LRM carriers (Slow, and have a big minimum bracket), Vedettes, Scorpions, Saracens, Scimitars, Strikers... You can even get away with some of the bigger ones, just don't overdo it. A Partisan is very well armored, but the minimum range and AC/5 focused armament will reduce the risk. Maxims pack a lot of firepower, but they're spread over all of the facings and usually deal in packs of 2, giving the armor a little more milage. Standard Large Laser bulldogs proved too much of a challenge, but maybe the AC2 or LRM version would be better. It might be OK to go up against the Goblin tank, as well. I didn't try any Pikes because it wasn't something that showed up in the RATs, but those would be good targets... The Steurmfeur fits the bill for weapons, but because it has so much armor, players would be bashing away at it for ages.

You might want to have your players recon out an artillery position with a mobile long-tom and take it out, or find a Mobile HQ and need to try to disable or destroy it.

You players have bug mechs. One thing that they'll have a strength at facing are infantry. Plenty of motorized/mechanized infantry will give you things to shoot at. Try to avoid getting them into buildings though.

For mech targets, I suggest saving that for the big bad at this point. I was going to put three bug mechs up against a Panther, but alternatives could be a number of designs, but probably stay the hell away from anything heavier than 40 tons, or faster than 6/9/6. Clints, Hermes IIs, Sentinels, Vulcans, even the Whitworth.

Since bug mechs are as brawly as they are, I'd suggest you try to push the "Get inside the minimum range" aspect.

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>>50298354
>>50300904

I recall running into a similar problem many years ago. To be totally honest, the PCs got rolled by a pair of Scorpions (both tanks putting an AC/5 shell into a Wasp's leg on Turn 2 will do that). There was not much patience among the PCs for any tap-dancing on my part.

So, I ended up punting by virtue of creating "Stingers" and "Wasps" which aren't outright bad for extended campaign play. They're still not optimal by any stretch, but IMO these were perfectly valid to give somebody instead of the STG/WSP bugs.

Note that I don't have one for the Locust. It doesn't need one; it fills a niche on its own that is completely unique for 3025, and until the Clans roll in it can actually run around and dictate range brackets and attack angle. 12 Run MP were huge back then.

>1/2

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>>50301075

>2/2

>>50298799
>I was a little afraid of having to do a series of technicals and having a game of "truck strong."
You could actually do that but instead of trucks use armed industrialmechs. They make good bug prey, often similarly armed and armored, but slower, while still being a bit crunchier than many of the crappier vehicles.

Another thing in regards to starting folks in bugs, consider making their opponents lower skilled.

Nice and appropriate if you run some "natives are restless" rebellions scenarios, or just have them scouting/raiding ill prepared planetary militias and the like.

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>>50300904
Also, my "end of the campaign" was only in it's formative stages, but I had a few ideas of what I wanted to do.

The demi-boss in the Ronin Wars was the former duke of The Edge, where the players were the militia of. Instead of accepting that he was going to be replaced by the Valdherre, he refused to step down and gathered all the local forces that were loyal to him. Players (if they finished the campaign) would find out he was getting bankrolled in part by Marcus Kurita, who was giving him a proportion of the military equipment that got smuggled there to build a personal army.

>Obvious salvage route: Players kill duke in his Panther

Other alternative routes they could have found:

Earlier in the campaign, the "Smugglers" bringing military components thought that they were doing any other run, bringing parts and supplies for the militia to resupply after pirate raids. Interviewing them may reveal a member of the crew as an ISF plant. Because it's the FRR, they can't move onworld legally, but the ISF believes that the local duke is not loyal to the coordinator, but Marcus, and has been bringing mech components onworld. Players doing enough searching would find a forgotten refurbished base from the 1st succession war, now filled with reassembled, mothballed battlemechs being hoarded by the Duke. The ISF wants them back. They could take them and burn bridges with the ISF, or give them back, and potentially be owed favors from the ISF, be it getting new mechs (Probably common to the DCMS) or something else.

>>50301181
This. Enemies with 7 piloting/6 gunnery are safe to fight, even if they have bigger weapons. Make their commander 6/5, and in something they want to salvage. Make it pre-damaged; that's also another good way to balance encounters. Pre-existing damage can really level the playing field.

>>50301075
>>50301091
>fat stinger and fat wasp
not bad. the LL makes them feel a bit like babby pixies, but there's not really any other choice in introtech

>>50299710
>>50300058

Aren't these numbers... kinda small for a force that took a big chunk out of the galaxy?

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>>50301670
>Aren't these numbers... kinda small for a force that took a big chunk out of the galaxy?
IT BEGINS ANEW

>>50301670
>Aren't these numbers... kinda small
This describes everything in BT.

>>50301709
And that side, isn't the entirety of known inhabited space in BT itself only a small chunk of the galaxy?

>>50301670

It worked at the time because the Clans were extremely skilled fighters who could not just hit at ranges beyond 3025 tech allowed but could do so extremely reliably. At least in the fluff sense, if you try to play it on the table top (and I have) what you instead get is the IS force blobbing up and wrecking shit with their battalion plus of artillery.

Now it falls apart completely because the IS had a bunch of Gausszilla designs on the border and would have shrekt the Clans in pitched battle with no need for dirty tricks or artillery.

So, you know. The usual FASA/CGL shitstorm of fluff, gameplay mechanics, and logic.

>>50301768

Yeah, like barely even a blip of our spiral arm. I just mentally substituted "galaxy" with "map" when he said it regardless.

>>50301670
>Aren't these numbers... kinda small for a force that took a big chunk out of the galaxy?
well, the BT inhabited region is teeny tiny, not the whole galaxy, but yes, it is small.
I did some crunching once and a BT-ified soviet MRD could shoot it out with pretty much any of the clan invasion forces and win

>>50301781
Now now, FASA dug the hole. Wizkids, then Catalyst inherited it.

Backpedal and say that everyone's got entire divisions of 'mechs on each world, and the REEEEEE will shatter windows in peru.

>>50301924
Yeah, this shit is dumb. Why people get so attached to numbers is beyond me. I mean, all you have to do is look at the number of MBTs in the world. This world. Earth. The sheer volume alone blows most BT numbers out of the water. Hell I don't care if they're all just Heavy Rifles; I'll take Modern Earth's MBTs vs. all of Battletech's 'Mechs and win, easily. China has 6500 MBTs. 6500. Let that sink in. Now, imagine that most worlds have like 12 'Mechs defending them, and maybe a few dozen combat vehicles. That's nuts.

>>50302068
The thing is that when the game started, entire planets could be taken with a company of mechs, some worlds a lance. That was the point of the succession wars. Mechs were irreplaceable, and tanks and infantry were little more than doorstops.

Holding a world is a different story, but it was all set up to give that "Mad Max" feel to it.

That all changed with the helm core, and for a lot of old grogs, is about the same time that they refused to buy new books and "Battletech is ruined forever".

Myself, I acknowledge that each world has it's own militia that never gets listed in the Field Manuals, plus all the merc units big and small bouncing around, but yeah, the numbers are low.

...but I don't think that's really shattered too many players' suspension of disbelief.

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Which Mechwarrior had the best startup sequence? I say 3.

>>50302187
I liked Mechwarrior 2's, but that was my first foray into the franchise, so I'm biased.

Mechwarrior 3 I've not been able to play since before Windows XP hit the market.

>>50302138
The key to playing and loving Battletech is basically headcannon, truth be told.

>>50301924

FASA dug a bit of a hole.

Then CGL retconned in everyone having Gausszilla shit on their periphery borders.

CGL made it worse.

The tech recovery being gradual rather than immediate is not a bad idea but it fucks with a lot of other things, and they didn't really think it through.

Sometimes it's better to leave the hole alone than keep digging.

>>50302456

Well, I say "everyone" but I mean the FedCom. Which should have *really* slowed down the Falcons and Wolves. The bit of tech the Dracs and FRR got wouldn't really have helped them that much.

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>>50295406
Does anyone know where I can find the stats on the PXH-6D?

>>50302741
Mega Mek has stats.

>>50302771
>>50302806
Thanks.

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>>50302741
>>50302771
Mocked this up.

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>HYPER ENTROPIC WARFARE INTENSIFIES

>>50295406
rip

>>50302514
>fedcom only
That explains why I raised a brow at the 「everyone」statement.

But then again, the distributon would likely have been a little slim. Not even the best border unit would exclusively field thunder hawks and devastators.

>>50301075
>>50301091
Kind of makes going with the bug pointless if you make it a different mech.

>>50304233
I did a similar thing for a guy that was stuck on a desert planet mostly facing bugs. But I didn't make new mechs. A couple of his Wasps got retrofitted to 1LL only and lost their jumpjets for a little extra armor. It's not a bad mini-trooper in a light-heavy environment during the 3rd war. Fast enough to run like hell from most of the bigger boys too. You just have to keep it out of rough terrain or bigger jumpjet machines like the Trio will eat it alive.

This was in a game where a SHD-1K or a DRG-1N was basically a bossfight and you ran from Panthers though.

>>50304233

Bugs are already completely pointless. Those Mechs do everything a bug does, EXACTLY like a bug does, with the sole exception of "die immediately". Their speed, jumping, firepower, and heat dissipation are completely identical to a standard stinger or Wasp. A Panther is still pretty likely to kick their asses, and a Wolfhound definitely will. IMO those should replace bugs completely.

Granted, I also think that Mechs under 30 tons that do anything but GOTTA GO FAST shouldn't exist at all, though. Nothing is fun about getting 1-shotted by a PPC hit to half of your location possibilities.

I heard that the Taurians produce a "local variant" of the Wolverine. What is its designation?

>>50304392
You heard wrong. The Hanseatic League is the only Periphery realm that manufactures Wolverines and those are the crappy primitive version.

>>50304390
>Nothing is fun about getting 1-shotted by a PPC hit to half of your location possibilities.
Sure there is, when everything on the field is on the same level.

Light fights are great for short pick up games, especially when said lights aren't too fast, since that often means bigger guns.

>>50304390
I think that, especially in the succession wars, the "point" of the bug mechs was the ease of manufacturing and maintenance. While other mechs were pretty much OOP or made maybe a half-dozen each year, the bugs were being spooted out of factories faster than most armies could probably keep up. They were the general, all purpose "At least it's not a tank" filler for most forces when the game started out. The only down side being that when the age of the RAT started up, this wasn't reflected accurately enough.

One of the things I tried doing with 3rd succession war megamek game was to have a 50% chance that each mech in a force was only a bug mech. The dynamics of the game changed by leaps and bounds. Suddenly, the Shadow Hawks, Banshees, and Chargers we would normally jeer at became lords of the battlefield, as peons of stingers and wasps scooted around trying to offer adequate support.

Besides that, there's something immensely appealing to me about an "Ultra low BV" match, where you have to keep below 2500 BV. With player bases who immediately gravitate towards the biggest and the baddest, matches where the Medium laser and AC/5 look like goddamn SCUD's, and where conventional infantry with SRMs are not only a threat, but a key player...

>>50304560
Using Xotl's good 3rd war RAT's, you have similar stuff happen. The light and scout lances are extremely bug heavy and having any kind of assault at all makes people go OH SHIT!

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>>50302187
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QrWAdq8e_uA

I'd agree, MW3, mostly for the sound of the engine spinning up, but also because I think that's the one where the cadence is just right

>>50302187
MechCommander is always best. "Commencing deployment, MechWarriors prepare for combat." That's the best Betty.

>>50304390
I feel they serve a point as low tier vehicles. Like IFVs and light tanks.

>>50304859
Ditto, trothkin

>>50304884
That's a horse of a different colour.

>tfw MC won't run on your pc

>>50304992
It can't run on x64. The last time I could run it was when I had XP x86, and I can't find the serial for a VM of XP.

>>50304996
Shit really? Would I have to get an older computer to play it then?

>>50305068
It runs (badly) in Vista/7 x86. The cinematics don't play properly, but the game runs. However, the cheats, if you wanted to use them, don't work because the game can't see the keyboard properly. Except for the Mad Cat Patch, that still works.

>>50304025

Not exclusively, no, but the retconned material makes it apparent that new technology was quite widespread and several regiments worth of things like the Devastator had been constructed prior to the Invasion.

With the Falcons mainly using the Kit Fox and Summoner and the Wolves reliant on the Ice Ferret and Adder a bunch of Gauss-wielding designs (and those are really popular designs for the FedCom) means the 'Mech forces are at a lot less of an advantage now than they were originally when the forces they fought were supposed to be shit-tier Periphery bordering types intended only to chase off pirates here and there.

It was already pretty difficult to argue the fluff/crunch divide with the original material, your best bet to explain the Clans overcoming the IS' massive advantages of armour, numbers, and artillery was saying it came from the shock of seeing LosTech, especially large concentrations of LosTech on single designs, in action was something the IS was psychologically unprepared for.

Now even that tiny, tiny fig leaf of justification is gone.

The Drac front always relied on derp and the FRR was always tiny so at least those factors haven't changed. The FedCom front is an utter shitshow though.

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>>50304992
>tfw MC won't run on your pc
>>50304996
>It can't run on x64. The last time I could run it was when I had XP x86, and I can't find the serial for a VM of XP.

Maybe I need to hold on to a decent XP machine, then. I was planning to disassemble this one and use the case, power supply, and video card for a new i5 build, but ... what if that would be a mistake?

>>50305145
Good post. I agree that the Wolves rolling over the FRR will probably always make sense due to its small military size.

On the topic of the Dracs, what are the regiments that disappeared? Didn't someone do a list?

And could the FedCom's Army Group Sudeten have defeated the Jade Falcon invaders?

>>50305236

>Didn't someone do a list?

Xotl might have one. I'm kinda tired of dealing with that stuff though, I'll say things like that or talk about the rarity of the Timber Wolf in these threads and be met with

>hurr durr this retard actually believes this shit

only for someone else to say it and have it be accepted.

>And could the FedCom's Army Group Sudeten have defeated the Jade Falcon invaders?

Not sure what you mean here?

The forces at Sudeten were the Turkina Keshik and 124th Strikers for the Falcons against the Gray Death Legion for the FedCom. The Sudeten Militia don't really count.

With the GDL present there's enough fiat to hold off anything short of Ulric Kerensky, Natasha Kerensky, Anastasius Focht, and Hanse Davion tag-teaming in to command the enemy forces. On the other hand Turkina Keshik. Simple numbers are in the Clans' favour there.

If you mean the large mobile reserve Hanse assembled which did nothing in the face of the Invaders, then probably. There were some decent units that he could have assigned there, and RCTs roll deep in vees and artillery support.

>>50299364
>There are 59 Mad Cats

Quote a canon source or fuck off.

>>50306035

>Quote a canon source

Not sure if serious.

>or fuck off.

No, you.

>>50306073
>Not sure if serious.

Clan Sourcebooks have been retconned by virtue of newer material making the stuff they say invalid. For example, that whole thing about Clan mechs being opposed by Introtech (which is all over the Sourcebooks) is outright retconned by CGL's insistence on advanced tech opposing the Clans. Likewise, the pilot listings simply don't work with later canon. Therefore, the books aren't canon sources. So post a CANON source saying there's only 50 Timber Wolves among the clan that uses them the most, or fuck off.

>>50306445

>Clan Sourcebooks have been retconned by virtue of newer material making the stuff they say invalid.

Except that they haven't.

A grand total of three SBs are regarded as so error-prone as to be useless, and those are the first edition of the Periphery SB, Objective Raids, and SP: Luthien.

In other cases the new canon takes precedence over the old, so for example new tech was present even though the WCSB says otherwise.

Sections that haven't been superseded by new material are still correct and still canon.

So if you can't get over your anal annihilation at being proven wrong, fuck off. That's literally all this is. "waaah, I don't wanna have to admit I'm wrong in public!"

Another anon here.

>>50306499
Objective Raids I understand (is that maybe where all the Kurita regiments dropped out?), and Luthien I'll take on faith, but aside from the Lyran defectors, what's wrong with first edition Periphery?

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first of eight unnumbered pages following the Sun Zhang color plates in the second edition RPG

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>>50306607
2 of 8

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>>50306621
sorry for the poor scan, this was the one place the binding *wasn't* falling apart.

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>>50306636
4 of 8

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>>50306651
5 of 8

>>50306574

>what's wrong with first edition Periphery?

We could spend the rest of the thread on it and still not cover all the issues.

The long and the short of it is that other stuff is "canon unless something newer says different."

P1E is "not correct unless something new agrees with it."

The bigger issue is that a lot of Periphery fans still use it to base their perception of their faction and argue from, but the stuff in it is /wildly/ inconsistent with the published universe at the time and has since been corrected.

I think there was some IC section of another book that even said the ComStar Adept who wrote P1E was undergoing a psychological breakdown at the time and very little of it has so much as a passing acquaintance with reality.

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>>50306665
turns out that an "omni pod" is the housing you can swap modular weapons in and out of

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>>50306683
7 of 8

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>>50306696
8 of 8

>>50306674
>We could spend the rest of the thread on it and still not cover all the issues.
Can you give an example? The Taurian stuff (Lyran defectors) is the only one I ever see mentioned.
Well, that and the asteroids in the Hyades Cluster, but that's not a continuity issue.

>>50306732

Taurians running their own HPG grid.

Factory locations and units manufactured.

Tech level and knowledge.

Etc.

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Hey, a few weeks or months ago, an Anon was looking for a copy of the 3rd edition manual. Did you ever find one?

>http://www.mediafire.com/file/tohkn0ndvlc0dwy/BattleTech_3rd_Edition.pdf

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>>50306771

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>>50306842
so gorgeous

>>50306035
>>50306073
>>50306445
>>50306499
I'm not sure who is for real and who is being sarcastic here anymore

>>50306752
>Taurians running their own HPG grid.
Did it say that?

I remember it saying they have warships lol

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>>50306993
>I remember it saying they have warships lol
I think that was FanPro's field manual, not the first (or even second) edition sourcebook.

>>50306752
...but none of those qualify?

First edition Periphery says the Taurians run their own communications, which DOESN'T equate to an HPG net - see pic related.

Aside from the Lyran defectors, the Taurian factories aren't any worse than the listings in other House books.

Tech level and knowledge is consistent with the other books - again, see pic related.

>>50307148
>Aside from the Lyran defectors, the Taurian factories aren't any worse than the listings in other House books.
Sorry, that's supposed to say the "periphery factories" aren't any worse, not just the Taurian ones.

>>50307148
>Tech level and knowledge is consistent with the other books - again, see pic related.

In case you didn't notice, we're living in a post-factual society. Your facts don't matter. It's what the Taurianfags FEEL canon is supposed to be that matters.

Since the 1e Periphery book validates those feels, then it has to be rendered non-canon.

I've decided to time travel back to 1990 and remove the Compendium (1640). Every time I see someone push that as the best rulebook ever, I want to slap them with SO.

>Captcha: identify all the porches
It's like the captcha knows who we are.

>>50307148
I believe it was the 1st edition, in the description to Brinton or another planet.

>>50307188
Speaking as a Taurian fan, I think you're being excessive in your view of us. The You-Know-Who types are the exception, and literally every faction has them.

>>50307148

>I think that was FanPro's field manual, not the first (or even second) edition sourcebook.

I think the first edition of TR 3025 referred to one of the DropShips as a warship and that might have been what they were picking up on. However I have also seen an insistence that the TC has proper WSes and WS factories through the SW and modern eras.

FM: P did give the TC the New Vandenberg/Vandenburg, which is a fucked-up Vincent they spent a ridiculous amount of money on and never got working.

For the rest, I've seen cited arguments that the Taurians have all those things which were only ever countered by "P1E is no longer canon."

Even pointing out that according to literally every other source said what was being claimed was impossible (or at the least, was inconsistent with the rest of the setting as a whole) wasn't enough, hence CGL's eventual decision to toss the whole thing.

Honestly though I've seen the issue done to death over the years and really have no desire to go around again.

>>50303704
>Dermezel
oh dear god.

>>50307324
Reminder that light mechs are useless because you'll always have ASF and DS superiority, or else a ton of speedy vehicles free to do scouting/raiding. Also, any House could stomp any 2 Clans at once.

>>50307324

It's like he doesn't realise the Dracs already have retarded scout 'Mechs that are of questionable or no use in direct combat.

>>50303704
Someone explain this meme to me please.

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>>50307252
>>50307273
Thank you, I forgot about pic related! Considering how often the other books describe military dropships as "warships," I never figured the ones at Brinton for anything else.

>>50307188
Ahh, so the anti-fags only FEEEL P1e has been rendered non-canon? That's fitting.

>>50307250
>Punishing someone for favoring the second-best book by smacking them with the second-worse one
Sounds right.

>select all pies
Captcha, that's a waffle with rhubarb topping. Not a pie.

>>50307459

Demerzel/DirewolfV/etc read the bit in Grave Covenant where Michael Pondsmith explained Entropy-Based Warfare to the audience and decided that it was, like, the hottest shit EVER but could be further refined if he added a HYPER to the front and, inexplicably, had the Dracs be the leading proponents of it even though they totally hate that shit and only want to do GRORIOUS SAMURAI CHARGES at the enemy.

He then went and built a series of custom designs with deeply, deeply stupid weapons loads and managed to beat Alexander Knight with them, thus proving the inherent superiority of his revolutionary concept. Except then he lost to a bunch of 3025 missile Locusts, which are the most broken units in the game.

Forced back to the drawing board, the final version of Hyper-Entropy Warfare evolved to include an explicit counter to whatever you suggested would work against it that he just hadn't mentioned until then.

"Your designs are too slow, they're vulnerable to artillery."
"Yeah well I have WarShips in orbit so they will take out your artillery before you can use it on me, checkmate!"

"Your designs are too slow, they can't implement the tactics you want them to."
"Yes they can, combat only ever takes place in dense forests where their jump jets let them keep up with Dashers!"

And so on and so forth.

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>>50307501
whoops, meant to >> at >>50307287, not >>50307273

>>50307501

>Ahh, so the anti-fags only FEEEL P1e has been rendered non-canon? That's fitting.

No, it has been rendered non-canon directly, per Herb here:

http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php/topic,20848.msg466261.html#msg466261

"that book proved to be so riddled with errors, it--like First Edition Periphery and Objective Raids--is now seen by our staff as a "secondary source": Canon only in areas where it does not clash with other canon."

As I said earlier, the usual stance with canon is just "new beats old" where they disagree.

P1E is in "irrelevant unless a new source confirms it" territory at best.

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>>50307601
Weird. Back to scratching my head and looking for examples, I guess.

>>50304392
they apparently did back in the star league era, and lost it some time between then and 3025, AFAIK the only factory that they did loose, but we never got any information beyond that.
might make a good design challenge, though

>>50307601
>Canon only in areas where it does not clash with other canon."
>P1E is in "irrelevant unless a new source confirms it" territory at best.
it's actually kind of amazing that you could give an incorrect assessment RIGHT BELOW the statement of something's canon status

>>50307729
>Canon only in areas where it does not clash with other canon.
As in you ignore it unless something else also confirms it to be canon.
>P1E is in "irrelevant unless a new source confirms it" territory at best.
Oh wow, that's exactly what he said.

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>>50307673
Local variant of the TC, acceptable in the DA. Possibly the Jihad too.

>>50307754
"Clashing" can only happen when there is a second source to be clashed with. Ergo, if no second source exists for a given factoid, clashing is not possible.

>>50307776
Field Manual: Periphery and Handbook: Major Periphery States are newer. Next topic.

>>50307729

More amazing is how shit your reading comprehension is.

According to CGL, as quoted and linked, P1E is *only* canon if newer sources agree with what it says.

Otherwise what it says literally does not matter at all. It's non-canon and citing it is pointless.

It could say straight up that the TDF was supported by 400 regiments of LosTech 'Mechs, each supported by five WarShip squadrons and assorted infantry and vehicle regiments that are commanded by planetary leaders or nobles as appropriate.

But since it hasn't been repeated in any newer source, that would be non-canon. And irrelevant. And deeply stupid, which is the central problem.

Normally, that would still be canon because it hasn't been directly contradicted by anything newer.

Too much shit in there isn't just "wrong, but in ways that don't really matter" but "wrong, in ways that fundamentally contradict the basic underpinnings of the setting."

>>50307673

Replace the A/C-5 with a PPC, the SRM-6 with a pair of -4s, and add a SHS? Still a bit of a glorified Griffin variant but the only other ways to go ape the -6K or -6R.

>>50307863
>wrong, in ways that fundamentally contradict the basic underpinnings of the setting
give me actual examples besides hatchetman shit. the "muh periphery state owned HPGs" thing is from mechwarrior 1e, so that doesn't count either

>>50308009

Nobody needs to give you examples of anything and we have a cited, dev-level answer about it. I don't give a shit if you don't like it and want to prolong the argument, nothing's going to change and you'll still be wrong.

Stop spamming the thread so you can keep flagellating yourself over how unfair the writers are where your faction is concerned.

>>50308009

TC having Warships (plural), as explicitly mentioned in >>50307501

There. Your argument falls apart on its face.

>>50307287
I've never seen this insistence by anyone but the fringes of the community. I don't think there's an actual problem name with most fans insisting anything out of 1e.

why are people falling for noncanonfag's bait again?
like, we've seen him do this tons of times before, you'd think you lot would take a hint

>>50308065
>I've never seen this insistence by anyone but the fringes of the community
and by "fringes of the community", I'm fairly sure you mean Medron Pryde, and medron pryde alone

>>50307754
>As in you ignore it unless something else also confirms it to be canon
You might be ESL so forgive me if I seem rude, but your statement does not mean what the writer said. It means the source is canon *unless* another source clashes with it, not only canon if another source corroborates it.

>>50307863
>According to CGL, as quoted and linked, P1E is *only* canon if newer sources agree with what it says.

That's literally not what
>Canon only in areas where it does not clash with other canon.
means...

>>50308065

The people who do cite it as a source are VERY keen on it.

Mostly as it pertains to a bunch of other shit I have no interest in dredging up here.

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>>50307863
>Too much shit in there isn't just "wrong, but in ways that don't really matter" but "wrong, in ways that fundamentally contradict the basic underpinnings of the setting."
Example? (Keeping in mind >>50307148 , and that anyone reading P1e when it was published would have read the warships at Brinton as being dropships.)


>>50307811
>Field Manual: Periphery and Handbook: Major Periphery States are newer.
And where they fail to talk about stuff mentioned in P1e, they fail to clash with P1e.

>Next topic.
Has TR:3050:Upgrades been decanonized? TR:3085 is newer, and covers some of the same units.

>>50308125
I got twenty C-Bills on the Thunderbolt to win.

>>50308084

What the fuck else is there to talk about?

Custom designs that are all identical to the ones we've all seen before?

More AU bullshit that goes for 50 posts before collapsing in a pile of shitfit and canonocity complaints?

More lore discussions that end the same way as the above?

Stories about games we've played that nobody cares about because we weren't there and so aren't invested?

All those new Mechs and lore that have been introduced as a result of the "timely and successful" BTG-TRO launch?

All the problems we have with various people connected to the game, and how people who talk on the OF, people who write the game, people who make the game worth playing, people who grow the game, and people who post on the internet are all equally horrible?

Rehashing the same issues about FASAnomics, Mary Sues, Fiat, or criminal conduct on the part of FASA, FanPro, and CGL (and yes, all of them had some; just not the Unseen stuff like that one asshole keeps trying to meme about)?

Or how about all those new products that CGL keeps pushing down the pipeline that totally AREN'T PDF-only wastes of bandwidth designed to desperately keep the company afloat - again - while they try to figure out a way to advance the timeline that won't result in a fan schism so large it fractures the fanbase into market segments too small to keep the franchise running.

Trolling and bitching are all there is left. Get off your damn high horse and roll down here in the mud until there's a reason to get up out of it.

>>50308105
>>50308122
These interpretations are correct

>>50308219
I think the thread would just be better if you were banned.

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>>50308084
Leaving aside the question of whether it's bait or sincere ignorance - I've seen it both ways elsewhere - bait is often based on something controversial or obscure, so I'll sometimes poke at it to see if there's a kernel I wasn't aware of before.

Also, I can't speak for the other two anons, but I actually do enjoy reading really clever posts (whether they're bait or not) so I'll sometimes poke at mundane bait to see how clever the baiter can get. Obviously, I do this less and less as I get more familiar with each baiter's habits.

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>50308219
>All those new Mechs and lore that have been introduced as a result of the "timely and successful" BTG-TRO launch?
Have a new mech and new lore that was cut because it's just a mediocre mech. Or y'know, bitch about dubious canoncity and how much we all hate the game. Whichever.

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>>50308166
You're on!

>Not actually on, because I don't MegaMek

>>50308308

>All this

Why not just make it an Axman variant?

Both of the Suns' Axman factory sites survived the Jihad but thanks to MadCap-tier fact-checking neither are listed in Objectives: FedSuns.

>>50308403
Because I wanted a custom chassis in 3037.

Anyone here interested in fluffing out a mercenary regiment? I was going to do it myself, but sometimes /btg/ provides some real gems of writing.

My players are going to be liaising with a detachment from a merc force called Cady's Regiment. In the fluff they're not fleshed out, besides that they were hired by House Marik in 3002, previously worked for the Dracs but ran afoul of the ISF, and served in a campaign on Loric in the late 3rd Succession War.

The campaign in set in the FCCW era. Players are FWL MechWarriors that'll be working in conjunction with Cady's Regiment on the Lyran border.
What kind of unit composition and weight do you think would make them interesting?
What about interesting unit background info over the years? One of the things I like about the FM series are those fluffy bits about goings on in each regiment.

I was thinking they've been on the Lyran border the last few decades.

Really I suppose this is a call for spitballing ideas to give them a unique flavor for the players.

>>50308468
Sorry, we're not allowed to help you anymore. See >>50308219 for reasons. You'll have to stew in hatred and misery instead.

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>>50308434
Well, the FedSuns were working on the Axman prototype back then, but being 65 tons wouldn't work so well with the 5/8 movement of your later versions.

>>50308219
Personally, I'm still basking in the 3rd edition manual art.

If you're super bored, I suppose it might be fun to take the "when a new book is published in a series, it invalidates all prior books in the series" principle to its logical extreme and see what happens.

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>>50308514

>Well, the FedSuns were working on the Axman prototype back then, but being 65 tons wouldn't work so well with the 5/8 movement of your later versions.

240 SFE to 300 XL saves 2 tons on a 60-tonner.

260 SFE to 325 XL saves 1.5 tons on a 60-tonner.

HOWEVER (/Dubledore huehuehuehue)

After the mandatory structural whatevers a 4/6 60 tonner has a 3 ton payload disadvantage when compared to a 65-tonner.

A 5/8 65-tonner with the XL has a 1-ton payload advantage over the 60-tonner.

I dunno, I just felt making it a 65-tonner would be a more elegant solution overall. It's a thing they already have, and you can spin the rebranding of the newer units as the Chevalier as having been done to remove associations with the Axman that's more usually seen as an icon of the Lyrans.

Also, obligatory Axman refit.

>>50308722
It's explicitly an also ran, even with the addition of Clan technology replacing pretty much the entire mech. So yes, it *could* be an Axman variant, but that wasn't the intent I had in mind.

>>50308479
Ok

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>>50308468
The attack on Loric bogged down in a fiery artillery nightmare, Janos Marik came close to arresting every military leader on the Lyran front, and they're absent from 20-Year-Update... since we want them to survive, I'd suggest they broke up into penny-packet units to garrison lesser provinces in the outer reaches of League space, and then reformed for Op:Guerrero (either to take part, or to take up a garrison post vacated by another unit.) Maybe make them so keen to capture enemy artillery that they'll bend or ignore orders.

As for unit composition... what's the player unit like, and what kind of things can they expect to run up against in the campaign?

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Question about Megamek. Does artillery work, both things like the Mobile Long Tom type of vehicles and Arrow IV carrying mechs like the 3050 Catapult? How does that work?

>>50309092

It works though as with most things the bot can't handle it very well. It doesn't plan for or against it the way even a very inept human would.

The exception should be direct-fire Arrows, since those are just another weapon.

Gameplay-wise it just adds one or two phases. I forget whether spotting is its own phase but Artillery gets a phase of its own.

>>50308928
Player unit is a provincial force, mixed tech and pilot quality. Tonnage is evenly spread, so they're a medium-heavy regiment. About a third of their mechs are virtually without upgrades, a third are the latest stuff from the factories of the League, and a third are whatever you can buy (or smuggle) on the open market of the Inner Sphere during the FCCW.

Their expected opposition is Lyran forces loyal to Nondi Steiner in the Cavannaugh theater of operations. Victor allied forces and ComGuard may be possible surprise foes if rallied or coerced by Lyran defenders.

So elements of RCTs, including artillery, are a definite possibility.

>>50309208
TAG fires in its own phase if you have anything capable of being guided.

>>50309208
Thanks a bunch. That helps somewhat. I wondered how difficult it would be with Megamek and wanted to try nuking things from afar, just for fun.

Is the Free Worlds League the only Successor State that doesn't manufacture the Overlord class dropship?

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what is food in the clan home worlds like?

>That feeling when some Inner Sphere Surat claims his dishonorable, eternally-feuding, planet-nuking, butthurt bitch baby dominion is ever the equal of the descendants of the great Star League Defense Force, true inheritors to Humanity's lordship

>>50310745

Looks like.

Not sure it matters much though, transport capacity for major factions is determined by the needs of the plot.

>>50310907
Go fuck a jar, space nazi deserter descendant.

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Okay pilots, after digging up the audio from Mechcommander Gold the other day, I knew I had this in my stash somewhere and found it. This is the audio to Mechwarrior 3. The SFX plus the pilots' and Mobile Field Base's voices.
I put in a note file with a really fast general placement of where some of the SFXs are, including where the mech engine start-up and shut down SFXs are. I hope you enjoy. It's neat using the mech computer's voice to start your computer with: "Reactor online, sensors online, weapons online. All systems nominal." Or use the mech destruction SFX for your recycle bin.
Do with them as you want. I hope you enjoy.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/wplodo9q9f1f377/2016-11-19_PC_Mechwarrior3-SFX-Vocals.rar

>>50311051
I know, I was just curious and if it were so I was going to see if any of our resident AeroTech fans had made any FWL pocket warship designs.

If not, we could do it as a challenge: design a League pocket warship built in the early 3060s as a response to the Overlord A3 and others.
Further, make a Jihad-era upgrade of the same design.

With most of their warships featuring meagre armour I'd say some good PWs to escort would be a boon.

NEA if you're here I'd like your input.

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>>50310745
According to Objective Raids (3054), Kurita lost theirs to the Clan Invasion.

Steiner's Shipil yard at Skye was under constant attack in 3025. Something might have happened to it between Objective Raids and the end of the FCCW since the planetary profile in the FCCW sourcebook says the Shipil company "builds aerospace fighters for the Alliance military" without mentioning the Overlords. The 3067 Steiner Handbook does have the -A3 variant being built at Skye, which is surprising since TR:3067 only mentions it in use by Victor's forces (at Tikonov and New Avalon).

Would anyone be interested in streams of older Mechwarrior/Mechcommander games, or the AToW campaign that I'm currently running? Just looking at generating content for peeps, was wondering if there was interest.

>>50312131
Absolutely yes

>>50296203
Definitely a cougar - she was forty-ish at the time of 4SW.

>>50312131
Yes, definitely the campaign.

>>50305299
>>And could the FedCom's Army Group Sudeten have defeated the Jade Falcon invaders?
>Not sure what you mean here?
Sudeten was a major AFFC staging-world, and yet the Clans managed to take it with two Clusters even though there should have been multiple RCTs in residence. A little more detail here: https://forums.spacebattles.com/posts/15933020/

>>50312527
ANd a little more here: http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=11988.msg1003999#msg1003999

Is Liao's -6L version of the Stinger the best version of the Stinger?

>>50312730
No, the "ditch the weapons/JJs/a bit of armor for a PPC" custom that everyone has is.

>>50311734
Neat.
Thx anon.

>>50312131
Definitely the campaign. I'm interested to see how it works mechanically.

>>50312527
>Frozen/Battletech fanfiction
what
>actually looks decent
WHAT

>>50313251
Elsa makes everything better :^)

What's the cheesiest unit in battletech, /btg/?
I'd say LRM locusts

>>50313432
I think it was pretty cheesy when Victor made Omiko his waifu and she bore him his Elliot Rodgers son.

>>50313432

something something hellstar
something something your mother

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>>50312131
Sure.

>>50311734
Love it.

>>50309811
FM:FWL says the Captain-General distrusts mercenaries and is phasing them out in favor of loyal House units. So Cady's regiment could be discontent with FWL support and actively fishing for other employers.

Their 'Mechs, man, I don't know. Lead each battalion with a company of Tarantulas and Cronus and Yeomen, then a half company of 3025 dregs, a company of 3050 Marik stuff, and half a company of other 3055-3060 stuff?

Typical Marik armor support would be dominated by Galleons, with some Harassers and Scarborough craft thrown in. Could mix that up a little. Replace them all with Hawkmoths.

>>50312730
Yes, same as their Wasp variant.

The Liaos just make better mechs than anyone else in this era. Part of Xin Sheng.

>>50313590
More like they couldn't afford to make bad ones since they're too poor to waste anything.

>>50313614
Anyone could make that argument given the value of mechs.

The Confederation is simply gifted with superior leadership, as befitting our place reuniting humanity and rising again. Xin Sheng!

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>>50313654

>>50313654
Indeed.

>>50313432
LRM Wasps.

>>50309811
>third are whatever you can buy (or smuggle) on the open market of the Inner Sphere during the FCCW.
some Lineholders wouldn't be out of place, maybe a lance worth in each battalion, perhaps more if they have some kind of chaos march connection. other possibilities would be a couple of bandersnatches, which kressly would be mass-producing by then (maybe purchased as a package deal with the lineholders), an assortment of Warhammers, Thunderbolts, Merlins and Marauders imported from the periphery, perhaps spruced up with -M upgrade kits, some Chameleons, quite common for mercenaries in that era, possibly a few Norse-Storm mechs, if the buyers hid their FWL connection.
if you want to be slightly weird and distinctive, maybe throw in a solaris arena machine purchased from a small stable's bankruptcy auction

>>50311782

FWL doctrine at the time was ASF superiority rather than worrying about assault DropShips.

Having said this it is a bit annoying the FWL never got a proper PWS* either. But everyone who wasn't the FedCom or RotS got fucked on those, except the FWL which was forgotten about.

*By which I mean not the missile ships from TR 3075. Every faction gets access to at least some of those.

>>50312527

Going by what forces could or should have been on a given world is a complete non-starter really.

Unless you'd care to explain why, in 6+ months and despite not moving a single fucking Regiment from anywhere else to the Clan front at the time and having 30+ regiments in the region that could have been bought in without weakening the Lyran or Suns fronts the Dracs were unable to reinforce Luthien.

Unfortunately we have to accept a lot of this stuff, particularly since Sudeten isn't listed as having only the GDL present in the 20-Year Update. For pretty much every battle fought in the Invasion, planets were only defended by what the 20YU says were there, regardless of any other concern.

>>50314897

>isn't

*is.

Fuck me. I meant to say "isn't listed as having anything other than" and then I decided to change how I was saying Sudeten only had the GDL as its defenders part-way through.

I can't brain. Time to start drinking.

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>>50315014

>specifics of BT fluff
>not already drinking

c'mon m8

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>>50315099
>MFW I made the grave mistake of attempting to reconcile 1st succession war with 2765/LoT

>>50313568
>Scarborough craft

u wot m8

>>50314361
>Merlins

Literally produced on the other side of the Sphere...

>>50315215
and yet the Wolverton Highlanders, who operated in that same area had the highest concentration of merlins of any unit.
I kinda assume that Mountain Wolf and ADL ship them in bulk to a dealership on Outreach and they are sold from there, so where they're actually made doesn't matter too much for the location of buying units

>>50315286
>'Mech dealerships functioning like RL car dealerships
Madman, your logic shall undo us all!

>>50315357

Depends on the design.

In other news I learned last night that the FedSuns produced the Pillager at GM Kathil and then stopped. Maybe because they realised that they already had enough dual Gauss cheese, maybe because Loren Coleman noticed and put a stop to it.

>>50315382
>Depends on the design.
I figure most every company that sells on the mercenary market does stuff like that, though those kind of 'dealerships' would probably only exist on Outreach, Solaris and maybe a handful of other places.
I imagine it would also not be a thing for smaller manufacturers. like, you call bander battlemechs up and commission a bandersnatch, you probably don't go to a dealership, although you'd probably go to a sales rep, and they'd ship the mech directly from terra firma to wherever you want when it's finished. Probably the same thing with the Cronus in the older days

>>50302235
That's every almost every tabletop universe, as well as many fictional settings from other mediums, though.

I mean, you think BattleTech is silly? Try being a 40K or Star Wars after you think about them seriously for ten seconds.

>>50315180
How so? I'm interested.

>>50315558
dozens of regiments, dozens of WarShips and three shipyards vanish without explanation, and that's just in the periphery. I gave up long before getting to the great houses, but I'm told it's just as bad if not worse

>>50315099
Man, thinking up ways for FASAnomics to function, or justifying the tiny militaries is pretty fun. No drink required.

>>50308219
>criminal conduct on the part of FASA, FanPro, and CGL
>besides the Unseen
I know about Bux of the Porch and the related payment issues, but do elaborate, please.

Also, while not the memeing asshole (...I think), I do give FASA shit for the Unseen sometimes. I don't think it was illegal, but the situation was still poorly handled, I feel. Just a layman's opinion.

>>50315830
the fellow's shitposting, mate. please don't reply, it only encourages him further

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Are there any other ShimmySeen bugs out there? Or light/mediums in general?

>>50316233
I think he has a Wasp. I would like to see a Stinger if it exists.

>>50315854
I know he was being a saltlord, but I legit love talking about gaming companies. Even if the stories are often questionable.

>>50316325
different anon here, but the only thing I've heard of aside from porchshit was allegations of nonpayment to authors, though I don't know much beyond their existence

also the scott malcomson ELH lawsuit is always genuinely funny, so if you haven't read about that yet, you should

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>>50316233
We have a few.

>>50310885
Probably rather similar to military rations. High in nutrients and the necessary energy for survival, but not too big on taste.

Clan homeworlds are rather scarce in resources and such lavishness could most likely be reserved for special occasions.

Is Megamek just unable to handle fighter squadrons in aerospace games?

>>50317563

If you mean making them, you have to go Create Squadron and then load each individual ASF into them in the unit selection screen.

If you mean use them, no, the bot cannot handle anything in space, particularly if it has velocity.

>>50317624

Oh, no, I was trying to try some stuff out for a campaign, and when I loaded the game in, scenarios with aerospace fighters in them. Just large craft, it was fine, but once fighters got included the game started to hang. So I was curious if this was just something that the code wasn't up to yet.

>>50317648

Code itself should be fine, I play with Aero stuff in MM and don't have any trouble against human opponents.

If it's under the control of the AI it might be spazzing out trying to move them since they start with zero velocity and it doesn't seem to know how to increase or decrease velocity, so it might be getting stuck at that point.

>>50317744

I'm doing a player v player thing. It's during shooting that I get the client freezing up after selecting one of the squadrons. Might be something up with a setting I've got checked that I'm not recognizing I'm doing wrong.

>>50317752

I guess it could be a memory leak, especially if you've been playing for a while.

[IT Crowd]Have you tried turning it off and on again?[/IT Crowd]

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>>50317766

I did. I looked through the logs, and basically I know enough to know that...something's wrong, but I am not a clever man enough to know what that is.

Though I have a sneaking suspicion that having a gray box instead of my squadron's armor page might be involved somehow.

>>50316233
I'm really happy with the shimseens.
Not only because they look pretty modern and because they do a better job of depicting the stats that the unseen had, but also because unlike Project Phoenix, the art style meshes decently well with the existing 3025'ers.

Proxying with the existing Marauders and Phoenix Hawks just didn't feel right, but as these get churned out, I'm really quite happy with them.

I'm hoping the Ostmann designs get some good treatment. In spite of being some nice mechs, finding minis of those unseen is exceptionally tough, because there was never enough of a demand to make them.

On that note, since I've heard murmurings of a shimseen Alpha Strike box, was there ever a minis-count included? Is it going to be straight up the same lineup from the old 3rd edition boxes or will they boost the count to include the osts and quads?

I'd really appreciate it if it included the other 3025'ers that weren't in 3025, like the Merlin, Chameleon, and Cronus.

>>50318097
I agree mostly with what you said, except the locust. He drew it like a tiny marauder with stub arms. It's not an ugly mech but it just doesn't look like a locust one iota. I hate the beak on the Valkyrie too. But all the rest are pure gold.

>>50315830

The actual saltposter here.

The refusal to pay freelancers goes all the way back to Rolling Thunder. Michael Herbet works as a librarian and book restorer at Miami University (Oxford). He was the author of Rolling Thunder, and by his words Weisman told him that if he wanted to get paid for the product he wrote, and since he wasn't one of the Chicago FASA locals (almost all of FASA was immediately local to Chicago in the mid-80's), he'd have to persue FASA in court.

Plus, there was the whole "not paying their novel authors" thing in the 80's and early-90s, a fiasco about which to my knowledge includes Mike Stackpole, William Keith, Andeth Mayhar, Bob Charette, and Chris Kubasik at a minimum.

So yeah. FASA had a ton of criminally negligent conduct as well, and got away with it only because the authors couldn't afford to take Weisman to court.

>The Unseen thing I don't count. It was a genuine mistake.

>>50318421

There's also the reason the e-book versions of novels had to be pulled. CGL/the BattleShop thought that since the original contracts didn't specify the monetary split for a completely unforeseen technology that they could just keepp all of it themselves.

Suffice to say they were wrong and it took a while for the writers to release their work again.

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>>50318180
>It's not an ugly mech but it just doesn't look like a locust one iota.

Locusts are cute and easy to draw.

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>>50315202
Scimitar, Saracen and Saladin are on the open market. TR:3058 puts the main factory in the Draconis Combine, but FM:DC doesn't mention them at all and talks up captured Pegasus and Savannah Masters instead. Per the 3067 Marik Handbook, the manufacturer was originally headquartered on Savannah in the FWL, and seems to be outcompeting other sellers of hovercraft (the Exeter Group) in that market. So the FWL should have a fair supply of them, both ancient and new, maybe more than the Combine.

For whatever you think RATs are worth, Field Manual:Updates makes a Scarborough tank more likely than any other light tank in the FWL (including the Galleon), and only a few points less likely than in the Draconis Combine.

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>>50318097
I believe this is the ostscout

>>50318180
I agree that it doesn't necessarily look like the old locust but I would argue that it's far more structurally sound. Old locust had twigs for legs.

>>50318180
The Locust was the second or third one he'd done, so I suspect he wasn't in the rhythm of drawing a Light yet. The man's a Lyran in all but blood with what mech's he's done art of.

>>50319690
Yes it is.

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>>50319564
>Locusts are cute and easy to draw.

They also blow up if you look at them the wrong way.

>>50320483
Isn't there a Locust with three medium lasers that would mitigate that weakness? I forget where I saw it.
Also I love those pencil drawings. I try to save each one.

>>50319690
>>50317220
Is there a book source for these, or do I just have to search the Internet for them?

>>50320523
Shimmering Sword has a Deviant Art account. They might be there.

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>>50320510
>Also I love those pencil drawings. I try to save each one.

Thanks. You probably have all of them by now, as I haven't drawn any new ones in over 20 years.

>>50315586
If it's as bad you say- oof. Still wanna read that book, but...

It is depressing how fact-checking at CGL seems to have gone downhill since the Year of the Star League. I'm mean, that's always been an issue for Battletech, regardless of the folks writing for it, but nowadays? Goddamn. I rather like CGL, but their editors should be embarrassed.

>>50320545
I've looked through it, but it doesn't seem like any of the unseen mechs are posted there.

>>50320545
They've only been posted to the MUL, not his DA page. His NDA probably covers them.

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>>50300904
>>50301231
That sounds like a fun game Anon. I love that gritty, militia-level stuff.

>>50320523
They're on Sarna

Do you prefer the Stinger or the Wasp?

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>>50320510
There's a -3V with two lasers. Or you might be thinking of the royal -1Vb, with MPLs in the arms plus the regular one in the chin.

>>50319565
>originally headquartered on Savannah in the FWL
Man, I cannot stop herping derps this weekend. That should be the planet Scarborough, not Savannah.

>>50322312
Sounds like a PC moment if I ever heard one.

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You crack me up little buddy.

>>50322470
Holy shit that's awesome I love Sam and Max.

>>50322172
The stinger for purely aesthetic reasons

>>50322172
WSP-1 best bug

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>>50322312
>There's a -3V with two lasers.

There's one on the left in >>50305161.

>>50322907
>WSP-1 best bug

Agreed.

>>50323001
>Agreed.
To be clear, I said WSP-1, not WSP-1A (yes they're different). I also only mean visually. Best mechanical bug is probably a Locust variant, maybe the -3V.

>>50322907
I really appreciate the -3S, but I know that's getting away from the ridiculously cheap aspect of bugs.

>>50322172
I literally do not care. The effective difference between them is meaningless on the scope of your average game.

>>50323001
>There's one on the left in >>50305161.
That says -1C? But there isn't a -1C. Now I'm super confused.

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Speaking of bugs:
How hard do you think it would be to modify this to a stinger custom?

>>50320510
>Isn't there a Locust with three medium lasers that would mitigate that weakness? I forget where I saw it.
Not a canon one, surprisingly.
But I figure that possibly a triple-digit of folks have independently designed their own version of one, so that's probably what you've seen

>>50323170
>That says -1C? But there isn't a -1C. Now I'm super confused.

Now you got me confused, too. I'm not sure what I was thinking.

The picture in >>50305161 was from a flier for a 3050 tournament (hence the Hatamoto-Chi, which wasn't there in TRO 3025). Maybe I somehow invented it a dual-medium laser Locust in my head... I don't see a House Kurita-specific variant in any of my books, and, as you noted, none called the -1C, either.

Somebody a while ago stripped the JJs out of a Stinger, took off the MGs and ammo, and made a 6 ML version with double heat sinks. It was MADNESS! Does anybody remember that one?

>>50323932
That was me. And it actually had SHS, because it was a 3025 design and I am a madman. Doubles would certainly be an improvement, though

>>50324014
Doubles are always an improvement.

>>50323516
All of the IBO kits have almost full inner frames, so they're pretty modable, but the head of that Graze is the only part that really resembles a Stinger

>>50324246
The head is what gave me the idea desu.
I've been trying to figure out a way to kitbash some decent Battletech figures.

>>50324340
Then get a decent VF-1 kit. I thought you were asking the opposite like "Stat this Graze as a Stinger Custom"

>>50323872
1C would be a Locust converted to C3 duty.

>>50324383
I suppose that would be the best course of action, yeah. I'd need another VF-1 kit though because I want one as the source material, since I'm a Macross fan as well.
Being a plamo fan is bad for your wallet.

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>>50324383
Stat a Graze you say?

>>50324861
>AC/2
All of my why.

>>50324861
To be honest After Disaster isn't too bad on the real robot spectrum. They'd probably transfer alright to BT, at least the ground types.

>>50324888
Because the standard hand held autocannon the Graze is equipped with is piddly as fuck

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>>50324861
and here's a Man Rodi

>>50324958
I remember I tried doing a Ground Gundam a while back but it was garbage.

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All Locust drivers should upgrade to a Koto.
Large X-Pulse fFTW.

>>50325377
Is that based off of the Koto from Solaris VII? I liked the Solaris one visually better.

>>50325552
Yeah, the Solaris one had a kind of ragged Frankenmech look to it, but I don't have a pic.

>>50320649

But their fact-checking if *impeccable.*

We know because Roosterboy and MadCap keep gushing about how great a job they do.

Truth is that we, the readers, are their editors. We do the bulk of their fact-checking and proof-reading for them, because why should a paid writer have to do that?

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>>50325568
The Solaris Koto was the Japanese Locust, and thus is unseen. >>50325377 is the reseen version.

>>50326027

>But their fact-checking if *impeccable.*

As is mine. Herp derp.

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What Battletech/Mechwarrior books to read?

>>50324892
Pretty nice period, with no beam cannon or beam saber, MS has no full flight capability, only Jump Jets, fuel limits, overheat a bitch, mostly autocannons, projectiles, missiles and weapons like hatchet and katana (non heated or vibro versions). Tanks play important role too! Kinda fits into SWs era!

>>50326314
Grey Death early books are good introduction
Wolves on the Border for HONOR and best black samurai
Star Lord because it's the best burd book until the DA stuff, and arguably better than the DA ones

>>50317826
You probably need to update MegaMek.While the older versions did indeed spazz out in space battles, when I updated to the latest version a while back it started working properly. Of course, since it's the bot it still does retarded things, but it no longer plays Turrets In Space.

>>50326314
The Gressman books of the Twilight of the Clans series are the best written BT books. The Hunters, Sword and Fire, and Shadows of War.

>>50327562
I really enjoyed Sword and Fire, it was nice to see units like the Highlanders doing things without being powered by Pardoe Magic.

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Still working on this one, but we need a bump.

>>50328749
Not bad. Better than I could do. I can't draw mechanical things for shit. I actually prefer this squat cockpit to the Unseen Beemer's setup. I'd always thought having huge bubbled domes was a little silly, even if it's mostly for show. It kinda looks like a modified Unseen Wolverine cockpit, actually. Like, the two had a love child. I'd size up the PPC though; it looks really anemic compared to the Medium Lasers.

>>50328749
Art is great! You have that bubble cockpit and stock look, really hit. I know nothing about art but, if I may suggest go for a griffin you'd kill it.

>>50328749
It looks a bit like a griffin and a battlemaster had a kid, and it spent too much time with it's uncle wolverine growing up

>>50326541

This is on the latest development build, and it's giving this to me on older versions too. So I'm starting to wonder if this is a conflict of something else I've got working.

So German BT fans are super fucking cringey...

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>>50328843
>Not bad.
>I'd size up the PPC though; it looks really anemic compared to the Medium Lasers.

Yeah, I drew the right arm first. It does look pretty small. The double-barreled shoota on the Soltic Bigfoot looks a lot bigger in most of the artwork I've seen.


>>50328886
>if I may suggest go for a griffin you'd kill it.

I feel that Griffins are easier to draw than Battlemasters.

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>>50329212
From what I've heard, most folks in the tabletop gaming scene are.
The manly adonises that /tg/ tries to make itself out to be smells like yea much bullshit to me. I've been to the cons, the LGSes, and comic shops. It varies from pretty average joe to shambling autism golems.

Approaching bump limit
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>>50330569