>the group's face can't string a sentence together

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>Know your social skills are shit
>Play a Charisma-based class just because you like the mechanics
>Party insists on making you the face

>game has social mechanics
>gm ignores them
>shoots down anything your character has to say
>npcs treat you like shit
>all immediately know you are lying because the they are run by gm

>>50286399
Oh no someone wants to pretend they can enjoy the benefits of good social skills in a game, something designed for escapism, for doing things you normally can't in real life? HOW DARE THEY?

>>50286517
This guy gets it.

Congrats, faggot. You're That DM. Don't ever run a game again you clearly can't handle the responsibility.

How's that for venting? :^)

>>50286680
This. Eat shit, OP.

>>50286680
>>50286762
"i roll persuasion"

Oh boy fucking fantastic, you're really living out your fantasies of not being a mouth-breathing sperg now!

>>50286777
And you don't offer them any help with their speaking skills, do you? Have you even considered asking them what they want from that character?

Those trips are wasted on your maggot-addled mentality.

>>50286777
"i cast fireball"

Really living out those wizard fantasies.

"I roll attack"

Really living out those Conan fantasies.

If you treat social skills any different than any other skill, you are That GM.

>>50287127
Wait, so you don't want your players to describe their actions when fighting or casting?
Are you wanting them to just roll and say the damage and move on? How boring.

>>50287170
I think you missed the point of the post.

>>50286777
what works for me is telling them to come up with reasons why the person should go with what they're asking, for starters
help them learn, don't be mad because they aren't all smooth-talkers at your table
(also, giving penalties and bonuses if they come up with good stuff, which you are supposed to do, by the damn rules, goes a long way to getting a powergaming but quiet player to string some words together)

>>50287185
He's being deliberately obtuse.

Or he's retarded.

>>50287185
But OP wants players to act out their rolls, and when they say really dumb shit for it to effect the world around them.
I increase or lower DCs based on the difficulty of the action, and that doesn't exclude social skills.
When a player attempts to take a captured bandit with brain damage and sell him as a slave to some random trader, that is going to be a hell of a lot harder than if he was handing him into the guard and demanding a reward.
And the way he asks for a reward and talks with the guard effects things just the same.

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>tfw you find out that /tg/ is full of stuttering spergs who make max charisma bards and roll instead of talking because they are too autistic to do anything else.

>>50287170
Don't move the goalposts faggot.

>>50286777
initially brought up the whole "I roll X" method of gameplay.

What they are reaming OP about is the idea of getting pissed off at a socially inept person trying to play someone charismatic in a game.

Yeah its probably some projection and persecution issues, but that doesn't mean they are wrong.

Whats so wrong with wanting to pretend for a while that you arent a mouthbreathing faggot. Thats litterally what this whole hobby was created for.

>>50286680
Shut up asperger.

>>50287240
That was my first post in this thread, how did I move the goal posts?

>>50287234
Did you expect anything else? thats all most of 4chan is.

>>50287240
The hobby was created to roleplay and rolling dice without actually making the attempt is the antithesis of that.

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>>50287274

I spend so much of my time here pretending to be retarded that sometimes I forgot we aren't all pretending.

>playing thr only cha based class/character
>not socially retarded as a person
>my character is super anxious about everything, so when nervous says dumb things, making him a shitty party face

It's good times.

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>Current character has minimum INT/WIS at 1 and max Charisma Strength at 18.
>DM is obsessed with rolling for everything and does so openly.
>That moment when you tell the big bad to kill himself, and get a nat 20 +9 because of Charisma + 13 because of potions/items and +15 because bards/wizards and +3 because you're a well dressed idiot.
>Success roll of 50, needed 20
>His face when his BBEG kills himself because an inbred barbarian sister fucker with the Charisma of a god tells him too and starts a personality cult.

Your homebrew is shit, Frank.

>>50287295

It's the same on any board. /pol/ is full of brown people who like anime. /o/ has a legion of busriders and people driving hand-me-down automatic civics or corollas. /k/ has many underageb& noguns. Why would /tg/, the board for Autism: The Hobby, be any different? Of course it's filled with spergs who can't roleplay.

>>50287353
>bwahaha! Now I, baron Von evildude, shall activate my brassica-o-nator, transforming this helpless town into cabbages!

>kill urself

>ok sir


What is wrong with your gm?

>>50286399
This is why I have done away with charisma as a stat and split its skills onto Wis and Int.
I make my players role play it and I gotta say that our "I roll to seduce" guy is a real life bard because he's got lines without end.

>The paladin player is bummed out that he can't make a coherent sentence and has been actually putting in effort to improve him self.

>The monk player and the sorcerer player are now happy that Wis based classes aren't shit for multiclassing any more. (Monk player is Sun soul/Vengance paladin, Sorcerer player is a Dragon Sorcerer/moon druid)

>>50287396
too many bioware games probably

>>50287230
If they're shit at describing sword swings, do you increase the difficulty of attack rolls?

No?

Then you are That GM. Of course, if you do you're still That GM. It's tedious houseruling for no benefit.

Yes, describe the action.

But if you pass the roll, then you pass the roll. Intent and goal of the character is what matters, not the details of the description.

>>50286399
a while ago.. but I guess still relevant
>playing Marvel heroic roleplaying game
>player rolls up a character that has a spiritbond with a spider
>Cool.mp3
>The team captures a couple of AIM minions
>Spider-dude "I want to go good cop/bad cop on them to learn who they work for!"
>alrightythatmightwork.webm
>the spider soothes the minions by lightly touching them
>the player asks "So who do you work for?"
This continues for 10 minutes with the two of them being good spider-cop and.. random person who just asks who they are working for. No violence, no threats, no crazy acting or anything
>Finally give up and just give the players what they want
>"Durrr we work for AIM. You can find them at bla bla bla"
>Spider dude: "Aaah so it's BANE!"
>wat
>since this is one of the more experienced players, the rest of the team sorta looks at him as the leader
>Well it looks like we are looking for the luchador Bane in a marvel setting
>"Are you sure that you want to look for.. Bane?"
>Well duh GM-anon. It's what the minions said

>sperg theatrefag constantly backseat negotiating
>complains about other players not roleplaying well enough yet tries to act as tactician with his borderline retarded barbarian
>uses an almost impenetrable ye olde english lexicon and constantly complains that nobody else does voices

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>>50287466

Bane?

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>>50287234
>tfw 99% of those talking shit are juat as spergy but lack self awareness

>>50287589

>tfw we are all spergs sperging out on spergs

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>>50287617
fug

>>50287396
this is the kind of thing that I would insist on having them roleplay. If you are going to talk your way through a boss encounter, you have to make it make sense in character and have athe least a general idea of what you are saying to the guy.

I'm going to try to convince him to kill himself + high roll just doesn't cut it. The silver tongue devil routine has been done to death but can still make for a memorable story encounter if effort is put into it and it doesn't become every fight.

I also don't get why people play rpg's like they are fucking Diablo dice rolling simulator 2017. I understand when you are first trying it out but like, give shit a try you don't have to be fucking Dickens level storyteller or able to act like DeNiro. Just be vaguely descriptive.

there are plenty of other types of problem players and problem gms but I will end my vent here.

>>50286777
"i roll to attack with my sword"

Oh boy fucking fantastic, you're really living out your fantasies of not being a mouth-breathing sperg now!

FFS let your players enjoy themselves and customize the game to make them better. High charisma characters are good at manipulation, maybe give tips on how the player can get people to listen to him, and offer different bonuses for using different social mechanics.

Subtle NPCs like courtiers can see through deception more easily, blunt and tough guys will generally not be intimidated, clever merchants can poke holes in your persuasion attempts. Now players have a reason to consider which proverbial weapon they will use in social combat instead of just persuading everyone.

>i'm a low cha, typical "i've seen some shit" ex-merc fighter
>present the main points of discussion when talking to npcs, guide discussion for my buddies to develop
>warlock spec'd into social skills embelishes and asks the questions, ends up doing the checks

best of both worlds, fuck yeah

Sometimes I like to pretend I am a young female paladin who is curious about thick monster dicks and I shave my whole body and put bananas in my bum.

>>50287466
It's sounds to me like your player just wanted to reenact the plane scene.

>>50287396
Honestly got all his understanding of story and shit from edgy anime. Was expecting us to play weird animeme characters that would solve our problems with weird convoluted magic and schemes. When he saw my sheets he assumed I was going for some kind of dragon ball Z bullshit or something...


...and not a literal sisterfucking retard with the strength and charisma of five pounds of pure Columbia white wearing a dress made of as much silk as he could buy so that when he went back to his village they would think he was the most powerful man ever for being so resplendently clothed and not realize it was literally just a huge red and gold wedding dress mixed with platemail.

>>50287973
Finally - someone honest in this thread.

>>50287756
I did roleplay it. All of the players roleplayed. We're a group that very regularly plays together and we love RP heavy games. DM was just a shit. He'd literally ask for cliff notes and zone out while we were trying to play the game. Like, the final encounter I tried to do hambarianretard speech about the wrath of the mountain godkings of old - lore DM explicitly told me to weave in, and got told to "just roll."

Thankfully wizardfriend is now building his own campaign and we've all got prior experience with him to know he's good at it.

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>>50286399
>the group's DPS is a pussy who can barely tell which end to hold his sword by
>probably hasn't killed anything bigger than a rat in his whole life
>insists he's the DPS due to his high physical stats
>have to sit there looking at his arm-fat flapping around as he apes his idea of a spear thrust

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>>50288145
>mfw i've killed multiple dragons in real life but the GM won't allow me to play my Dragonslayer homebrew class
>insists that I play a Ranger specialized in dragon killing when I don't know anything about wilderness survival

>>50288220

>Killing dragons

fucking Drakophobe shitlord its 2016 just let the dragons kidnap white princess already

>>50288220
So you're are one of those faggots who go to dragon safaris and have the dragon tracked for them, given a Dragon gun and then the dragon hide and then they pretend they hunted it themselves?

>>50288267
>I can't think of a serious justification for my dracophobia
>better invent an excuse based on discredited thousand-year-old myths!

>>50287279
The Hobby was created because Gygax wanted to make one of his Table Top Wargames skirmish scale, and everything expanded out from there.

>>50286399
>the group's wizard can't cast any spells
>insists he's the wizard because of high mental stats
>have to sit there watching him try to conjure a fireball so his character can use the spell on a group of kobolds

>>50286777
I bet you don't let anybody play a fighter unless they actually know how to use a sword either, you cock goblin.

>>50286399

>the groups face is now their DM
>they just sit and be overly caution and not inquisitive enough

>>50287170

No, they tell me what they want to do and I describe how they did it. The game engine is in my head, it's my job to make sure it stays consistent.

>>50287506
Sounds like your party just needs to get good.

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>>50288412

>Not being able to cast fireball
>2016

>>50286399
Honestly, why the fuck are you playing rpgs with other people if you can't handle a person's minor flaw?
I honestly feel that guy's pain. I much enjoy playing charasmatic talky characters but I'm shit at the actual talking part. Like I know what I'm going to say and I feel completely relaxed and everything but when I open my mouth I just stutter and say "uhh" all the time like I'm an awkward piece of shit. I have no idea how I'm supposed to fix this and get better at speaking like I feel I should. It's like satan is controlling my tongue as I speak.

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>>50289376

Take a public speaking class and lose your virginity. Should fix all your issues.

>>50289386
Is this what sex looks like? If so I don't want none.

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>>50289567

>Not wanting that tongue deep on your ass while she gives you an aggressive handjob

>>50289567
>>50289386
Girl could stuff her tongue so far into your face that you choke on it and die.

!HOT!

>>50287170
You can describe your social rolls too without actually living them.
>"I use my silver tongue to persuade them to my side"
Should be just as valid as anything else, even if the player doesn't actually know what to say that would persuade them.

>>50289386
>>50289580
>not wanting a bifucated tongue playing with your genitals
Git gud.

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>>50286399
I spent a year and a half playing a face character in a game with a GM who hated social rolls. Every time I'd try to roll to bluff someone, "the lie is unbelievable, so it's at a -20."

>>50286399
>Player always plays faces and party leaders
>Makes socially inept alchemist
>Still ends up acting party face.

Has more to do with the other players then with him. It was so funny to see the cleric and paladin turn to the sketched out drug addicted plague doctor and be like 'well, arent you going to smooth talk our way into the churches good graces?'

>>50287353
>DC 20 to talk someone into suicide.
That alone is mind boggling.

>>50286399
>X happens
>"That's impossible, NPC told us X wouldn't happen!"
THAT'S BECASUE HE LIED TO YOU.

>>50287127

Oh, come off it.

You guys are being so defensive, because you all know it's different. Social skills, for want of a better word, require you to actually say something. No-one can perform a physical action in a game, but unless you want a really basic simulated victory:

> "I roll persuasion. Does he let me pass?"
> "You bullshit the guard, and he lets you pass."

...you're going to have to put some effort into it. And yes, the gaming community can be plagued by people who literally have no social skills whatsoever, and that's why the disconnect leads to a unique area of dysfunction.

It's like, I don't care if your character has 18 Charisma, man. You're not going to be romancing that NPC, because god, I can't fucking stand you. I can't imagine a woman letting you crawl on top of her without screaming rape. So let's leave the weird stuff at the door, and just have you talk your way past dumb guards or something, all right? And next time, don't make a social character because I don't want to have to deal with that shit.

Also, social ain't some magic bullet the way physical skills and magic are literally magic bullets. You only get out what you put in. No, you're not going to convince the King to loan you his army if you stammer out "There's gold in dem hills."

Fucking work for it, you entitled shits. I'm not your enabler.

>>50292032
>I don't care if your character has 18 Charisma, man.

And that's why you're That GM.

The player invested points/xp/whatever into being good at something, just like a warrior or mage. It's no different. At all.

But you arbitrarily decide that they can't be good at it despite making the same investment every other archetype has?

Dick move. Flat-out.

At least remove all social skills, stats, merits, flaws, and abilities from your game beforehand, so everyone knows where you stand and your players know not to join your game in the first place.

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>>50293112
Go play out your power fantasy elsewhere. You don't get to godmod NPCs. Go back to your casualized third edition with rules for everything so you don't have to think.

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>>50286399
>Our 18 CHA Paladin is played by a sperg
>The Bard and I, a Monk, have to be joint party face.

Bard is a great roleplayer though so it's fine.

>the korean guy whose entire backstory for his character is "I'm a warmage and I died in the battle."

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>>50293286
Who said anything about godmoding?

Some things are just impossible.

You can't end the world with a single spell as a magic-user.

You can't destroy a castle with a single swing of a sword as a warrior.

You can't talk a king into giving you his crown with a single speech as party face.

You seem to be missing the core argument here.

"They are all the same; treat them as such."

If they can explain their goal and how they want to accomplish it and it isn't impossible, let them roll. No matter what the action is.

It's GMing 101. If there's an element of risk (that is, not so simple as to be impossible to fail and not so hard as to be impossible to succeed, and there's consequences for success and/or failure) then roll. Otherwise don't.

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>Best roleplayer in the party is a mute
>A fucking mute
>I don't mean we're bad, he's just damn good at playing a fucking MUTE who is really expressive
>We're out-RPed by a literal mute.
>This fucking mute RPed a STAREDOWN against the captain of an invading army and made him TURN AROUND AND FUCK OFF
>The mute ended a CR7 battle by GLARING at it
I have to get good.

>>50293401
But that totally eliminates the entire point of roleplaying.

>>50292032
Fucking this. You don't just "roll to x, roll to y." You explain what you attempt to do and then roll to see how successful it is, and then the GM bases what happens on the result.

Compare:

>"With my Halberd, I'm going to try and stab the Orc through the chest as it's winding up to attack Bob again."
>"Alright, roll!"
>"17."
>"You hit. Roll for damage."
>"Eight"
>"You run him through the chest with it, leaving a bloody wound but he's still clinging to life."
>"Right. I have Multiattack, so I'm gonna try and pull the halberd free from his chest and bring it down on his head."
>"Roll."
>"...Nat one."
>"As you try to pull the halberd back, the Orc grabs it by the shalt as he screams a warcry at you through bloodied teeth. He pulls the halberd out of your grasp and drops it. You're now disarmed."

To:

>"I attack the orc. 17."
>"Hit."
>"Eight damage."
>"He's still alive."
>"I attack again....crit fail."
>"You drop your weapon."


Social occasions should be similar. Players should at least have a vague idea of what they're going to say and how they're going to say it. They don't need to act out every word if they're not comfortable, but something like:

>The guard stops you and asks what you're doing out this late. "It's past curfew, sir," he says with a frown.
>I show him that botany book we found earlier. "Pray forgive me, good man! I'm searching for the Latinnameus Plantius, a rare moss that only grows at night!"
>Alright, roll for persuasion.

>>50293450
How so?

You're stating something as fact without any supporting points.

The roleplaying happens with the "explain their goal and how they want to accomplish it" as well as all the things that don't require rolls.

If the player isn't good at explaining the how and why, don't penalize them. Assume their 18 CHA character knows their job well enough to convey it well instead.

If the how and why is fucking stupid (trying to get more gold from a job by threatening the king in his own court) it's probably impossible and give them realistic consequences.

>>50288267
Is it playing to racist tropes if a black dragon kidnaps a white princess?

>>50293529
Character interaction is the core of roleplaying. If you remove that, why are you "roleplaying"?

>>50293693
How is that removing character interaction?

I'm not sure you're reading the posts.

Rule #1:

You don't roleplay, you don't role. Period. No exceptions. Ever.

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>>50293728
>strawman

>>50289164
Do you give them a chance to role play it if they want?

>>50293413
There's a scene in Thunderbolt Fantasy where the protagonist and a master assassin are drinking together. The assassin Sha Wu Sheng is looking for an opening in Shang Bu Huan's defense but no matter how he plans to act, he can see how Huan would immediately counter him.

The drinking is revealed to be a very subtle battle between the two where Huan is constantly on guard and Sheng is trying to find an opening. I can imaging the guy's character getting involved in something like that.

>>50293693
Just ignore him, he's a threeaboo who would start throwing dice at a player because he RPed something to where the roll was handwaved before curling up in the fetal position and shitting his pants.

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>>50294081
I don't even play DnD of any kind, dude.

I even explicitly outlined situations where you do not roll dice.

But social skills and stats are the same as all other skills and stats and should be rolled the same way, whatever that "way" is for your particular table.

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>>50286399
>>50286480
>Have shitty face OP described
>Multiclass and usurp his role
>He can't speak up about it because of aformentioned reasons

>>50294101
OK, so you set guards upon the party because they were set up for a crime.
The bard says "I roll diplomacy/persuasion" and after mods it's well in the 40s, so he passes your DC
Do you then ask him to explain what he says? Do you change the DC if he says dumb shit? Is it fair to penalize a CHA roll when the action is idiotic?

>>50287255
Never understood why people use shit like this as an insult. not cause it's offensive or anything, but you are literally excusing peoples actions by , in essence, going "Don't worry they're X".

Surely it's more insulting to imply that someone is inexcusably stupid, not give them a defence

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>>50287234
>you find out that /tg/ is full of stuttering spergs
You don't fucking say

>>50294152
Read the thread. I answered all this shit already.

I'm not repeating myself because you're a lazy bastard.

>>50294152
Not him, but as far as I can tell there are two actually worthwhile schools of thought on the subject.

1) Say what you roll. Have a player who prefers to do this. Natural one on his persuasion check?
>I go up to the guardswoman and say "Excuse me sir, could you possibly let us inside?"

2) Mods for arguments. If you have a good excuse for what you were doing on your bluff check, or give the guardswoman a flash of your abs through your open-fronted shirt, then you get a bonus for your check.

Both are equally valid.

>>50294159
I'm autistic, and excusing a spastic's actions is something I don't stand for.

I probably take more responsibility for my actions than most adults and believe me I make a lot of fuckups.

>>50287127
>>50288430
>>50287774
>>50287240

It's roleplaying, not rollplaying. If you're unable to roleplay a charismatic man with social skills, don't do it. Acting is as important if not more than the dice results. A weakass can act as a warrior and a normal guy as a wizard with some imagination, but you cannot act as a socially talented person unless you got some social skills yourself. You don't need to be Confidence McSilvertongue, just not be a total sperg.

>>50294366
but but but muh shell

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>>50286399
>groups warrior can't actually cleave a man in half
>insists hes the warrior because of his character sheet
>have to sit there watching him roll a dice instead of actually cleaving the DM in half

>>50289716
Well, was the lie believable?

>>50286399
>you may not know something specific about the setting personally, but if you roll a knowledge skill your character might know it
>you may not be fit enough to lift half a ton, but if you roll an athletics skill check your character might be able to lift it
>you may not be a charismatic person, so fuck you if you're trying to play a charismatic character

>>50289928
In the last one-shot I DMed the only socially skilled player (or better said, socially active) decided to play an insufferable dyke who hated everyone. She literally had a flaw on her sheet that made people hate her and she didn't work on changing their minds. But since the player is talkative and the other two are not, she was still the party's face.

The town they were supposed to help ended up revolting against them and besieging the abandoned house where they were staying.

10/10, top fun.

>>50294366
It's a game, not a theater.

It's about the character's abilities, not the player's.

You're just arbitrarily punishing the social characters, which is already a fairly unrewarding archetype as they're the only ones that are generally useless in a fight in anything that isn't DnD.

If the character is good and the player is not, then the character needs to be able to succeed where the player does not. The only way to do this is to treat social skills and stats the same as any other roll.

It's the same the other way around. If the player is good and the character is not, the character needs to fail where the player would succeed. Dice rolls allow this.

You literally can't roleplay if the characters skills and the players skills are arbitrarily the same regardless of stats, which is what you are proposing.

>>50293479
>critical failures

>>50294490
What's wrong with critical failures? As long as you include a confirmation roll, they're not that bad.

>>50294465
>It's a game, not a theater.
A game of pretendig to be someone else. So basically theater without the audience.

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>>50294490
>>50294498

>>50294460
>you may not be a charismatic person, so fuck you if you're trying to play a charismatic character
No. Fuck you for not even trying.

>>50294516
I would never troll a player for a critical success. A nat 20 is always a good thing and a nat 1 is always a bad thing. That's how it works.

Unless the players have the Ring of Fickle Fortune, which inverts the effects of a nat 20 and a nat 1.

>>50294508
That's got to be the stupidest thing said in this thread

>>50294508
Look at the "required to play" section of any core rulebook.

Not one of them will say "a degree in acting" or "experience performing in a play" is necessary.

The dice exist to arbitrate the rules in an unbiased manner. A skill roll is a skill roll, regardless of whether it's "swords" or "persuasion."

Anything short of that is being a dick, especially if you aren't upfront about it before people spent their XP/levels.

There's literally no reason to dump all your XP into social skills in games run by people like you. You're cutting out a huge chunk of the game.

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>>50294519
>No. Fuck you for not even trying.
How are you trying when making knowledge skill checks? How are you trying when making lifting checks?

The truth is that you're just an incompetent railroading GM who can't consider the situation from the perspective of your NPCs and demand that you yourself be convinced first and foremost.

The one who should try is you.

>>50294541
>Look at the "required to play" section of any core rulebook.
>Not one of them will say "a degree in acting" or "experience performing in a play" is necessary.
They will say "a few dude(tte)s and maybe like some dice. BECAUSE THEY WANT TO BE ACCESSABLE. Is that so hard to understand?


>There's literally no reason to dump all your XP into social skills in games run by people like you.
Yes there is. Roleplaying is what allows you to roll. If you formulate an argument badly whne trying to go for persuasion, that's fine. We're all just people. But when all you have to say is "i persuade him to let me pass" that is not roleplaying.

>>50294465
It's a game that shares with the theater the feature of acting.

Everything else you said is pointless since it directly conflicts with this pillarstone of roleplaying.

Now, giving information like in >>50294460 would be totally acceptable. But you don't get to roll persuasion like you roll climbing since there's no acting and no dialog on climbing. You're the one who is being arbitrary, since you merge actions that involve interaction and acting with others that do not. It would be like allowing a warrior to paint with his attack skill ie mixing pears with apples.

>>50294563
Are you some new model of 4k UltraHD projector?

>>50294596
>treating every skill roll the same in accordance with the rules is arbitrary
>choosing one category of skill as completely different to all the others, contrary and contradictory to the rules, is not

I'm failing to see the logic.

>>50294589
I mean if you want to run some show online or something sure, but I don't think anyone is going to hold such high standards if we're all just here to play pretend and enjoy ourselves, I mean if your good sure ok that great but you act like someone should take college acting classes to play Rockgut the dwarven cleric of pain or something.

Shit nigga calm down it's just our weekly session not a Hollywood set.

>>50286777
LIFT MY FRIDGE

>>50294589
>"i persuade him to let me pass" that is not roleplaying.
I have never contradicted this point, and you bringing it up as a point suggests you haven't read the thread and don't actually know what you're arguing.

Treat all rolls the same. If you require a description and give modifiers for the description of an attack roll, do that for persuasion.

If you only require "I roll attack" for attack rolls, do the same for persuasion.

Personally, I require a "what are you trying to do" and "how are you trying to do it" and I don't give modifiers, though difficulty will be set by how unlikely the result is. Trying to seduce the married woman is harder than just persuading her much like trying to hit someone in the eye is harder than just going for a body shot. And some things, like hitting a target on the other side of the planet or convincing the king to give you his crown, are impossible.

I don't care if you say "I want to get passed the guard by bribing him" or "Good sir, I don't suppose you might consider letting us by without proper identification by paying an appropriate fine instead?" so long as "what" and "how" are answered. Different players have different comfort zones, and the former lets you bypass cringeworthy "acting" skills.

But treating them differently is being a dick, especially if you don't disclose that before character creation.

>>50294655
> I mean if your good sure ok that great but you act like someone should take college acting classes to play Rockgut the dwarven cleric of pain or something.

You're interpreting this out of nowhere. He doesn't sound like that, at all. Do you even roleplay in your games or just roll dices and check results?

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I don't let my players play charismatic characters unless they had the leading role in at least 5 theater performances and starred in 3 movies.

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>>50294712
I honestly don't care, does it really matter what I said?

I don't matter,none of this matters, half the people here are just making things up and the other half has never played a fucking rpg in their life why should I bother and try to make sense of this garbage.

>>50286399
Yeah, every time it's time to start combat I hate finding out none of my players even brought weapons. Fucking rollplayers.

>>50294712
Sometimes I roleplay and sometimes I roll dice. I'm not as charismatic as my Bard, so any time I need to convince someone of something I just tell the GM that I'm going to roll the check. Then I roleplay afterwards. I also do the same for attacks, knowledge rolls, spellcasting and other skill checks.

>>50294655
>acting classes
Like I said. All I expect from my players is trying. I'm certainly not perfect either and my roleplaying is not up to acting standards. But if you take your hobbies only the least bit serious, then trying is something that can be expected from you. If your description sounds more like 12CHA than 18, fine. Nobody will blame you, nobody will penalize you for it.

If that is all too much to ask, why not play a board game or a video game instead?

>>50294685
>Treat all rolls the same. If you require a description and give modifiers for the description of an attack roll, do that for persuasion.
I do treat all rolls the same and I don't require anything. But this is a game of cooperation, of give and take. It's about telling an enjoyable story as a group. And to me that is a little more than dry descriptions of actions. How a character talks and acts are what give them character. It's what fills an RPG with life.

>>50294836
I still don't get where your disagreement is. You haven't presented anything at all that is in conflict or mutually exclusive with my points.

Do you just like bickering to bicker?

>>50294879
Honestly we're on 4chan, what do you think?

>>50294879
>I still don't get where your disagreement is.
It's with not roleplaying in a roleplaying game. Because conversation between characters (and NPCs) is what makes an RPG. Nobody has to be a brilliant actor to at least try doing that.

Then again, if we are merely in misunderstanding, I am sorry.

>>50295002
There's a difference between a conversation between characters and using a character's skills to convince an NPC of something.

>>50286399
>the dm is known to give performance bonuses if you actually play out a social interaction convincingly
>the group's recidive minmaxer abuses this to dump all his socials and still have excellent social interactions because he's a fucking excellent public speaker IRL
GODFUCKINGDAMNIT RAY, KEEP THAT SHIT IN COURT

>>50295034
But why not combine the two? Have the PC and NPC act it out and then roll.

>>50295084
Because the PC might not be a very convincing person in real life.

>>50295113
But the player doesn't have to convince anyone. How well the PC convinces someone depends on the roll. The words of the player are just for flavor. But flavor matters.

>>50295161
I don't think it's that big of a deal.

>>50286399
>player occasionally brings gf to play with us
>gf is actually a pretty good roleplayer (shit at mechanics tho)
>but they always play couples
>and they always throw monster bitch fits if something happens to their partner's character (even tho they don't mind what happens to their own)
>they also trigger the fuck out of our resident permavirgins with their lovey-doveyness
>they kinda trigger me too but I'd feel like a massive dick telling her off
Anything I do, is gonna feel bad.

>>50295178
And that's our point of disagreement. It is literally what the game is about. Playing the role.

>>50295225
The game isn't about acting out your skill checks. That's not playing a role, that's acting out skill checks. Playing a role and making skill checks without fluffing those skill checks out are not somehow two contradictory things like you're trying so hard to paint them as. There's simply a lot more to roleplaying than "the before" of a skill check, and I don't see why some people forgoing the details on that specific part is making you so upset.

>>50286399
>group's big stupid fighter is actually smart and charismatic
>gets to be good at everything
>fuck your stupid character sheet and fuck you for playing

>>50295298
I'm not upset and don't know why you want me to be. Sure, there is more to roleplaying that just that, but describing and playing out HOW your character does something is an important part of it. Every rogue can sneak past a town guard. But Jim the (former) Hermit might imitate animal noises to distract them while John the Master Assassin becomes one with the guards shadow.

>>50295425
I literally said I require two things of a roll:

what your goal is and how you do it.

This is why I said we're not really disagreeing.

I also explicitly said the "how" is where most of the RP is going on. This is why I said it seemed like you didn't read the thread.

Also the last few posts weren't me, but anonymous image board. What can you do.

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>>50286399
Quite a long time ago so I don't remember exactly but
>the party needs to go to a place where soldiers are using slaves for work
>there's a guard in front a gate that leads to some sort of mine
>we discuss together how to get pass the guard, given that we want to cause as less havoc as possible
>someone proposes hypnosis but GM says the guard is alert and hypnosis effects would be insufficient
>we ask for one of the girls of our party, "played" by a girl with almost zero RPG/acting experience, to go up to the guard and pass herself as a whore who came here on orders to please the soldiers
>girl starts laughing, the kind of embarrassed, almost forced laugh, and cannot get into it
>a girl in our group tells and shows her how to do it several times
>the other girl laughs again and cannot get into it
>the whole party AND the GM keep telling her to just relax and do it
>still cannot fucking do it and just laughs like a tard
What should have been done in 2 minutes took some perhaps 15 minutes of maximum cringe. I was HOWLING internally.

>>50295198
Dude no, that's not how you should act. Tell them to leave their love shit outside and just play. I bring my gf to board games gathering and we don't go full lovey-dovey shit nor anything, we just play because we like it and if we want to cop a feel, we do this inside of a fucking room, not in front of everyone.

Seriously, get the guys around the table to man the fuck up and tell them roleplaying doesn't work like this. A kiss or two sometimes doesn't hurt tho, you can't blame them for this.

>>50295590
I know I should be harsher, but if I start being harsher in the aftermath of mine own break up I'll look like I'm just being spiteful, and it's just gonna make the situation worse.
It's my fault, because I should have censored them earlier (even tho god knows I'm worse than they are when I'm in a relationship, so I would never done that anyway), but knowing it doesn't help, hence the frustration.

>>50294721
But you can perform as uncharismatic characters in a theater.

>>50295505
Yeah, if somebody is really that uncomfortable it's probably better to come up with another plan or the GM should allow them to just roll it and be done. Roleplaying should enhance everyone's experience, when it's becoming an obstacle shouldn't you remove it momentarily?

>>50295318
>>50295058

No, that's bad too. It's actually the literal same fault, in fact. Someone acting bad, contradictory to their character. In the case of the OP it's a little more forgivable because he does it out of incompetence, not willingly, but that's the only significant difference. They're both failing to interpret their characters correctly.

>>50286399
>The wizard's player can't cast spells
>The fighter's player can't bench press a dragon
It's escapism, you faggot.

>>50295505
While the girl was clearly acting a bit retarded and making a mountain out of a molehill, I feel bad for her and the attitude of the group was not the correct one. If she's ashamed and unable to do it that's not really fine, it makes her a worst player, but she's a human being and you cannot force her to do something she's not comfortable with.

This is one of the few cases where I would allow her (or him) to just roll and give a brief description. We're all here to enjoy.

>>50296037
They can act as a dude who is capable of doing that though.

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>>50296050
>someone doesn't want to be peer pressured into whoring themselves when it may not even be in character to do
>makes them a worse player

>>50295957
>>50296050
We didn't do RP that much back when I was playing with them but for some reason, the GM really wanted to have the RP part done for this. She ended up doing it and the GM was extremely nice for the subsequent spellcast. In retrograde, I'm not sure if I was mad because she was like this or because we somehow needed to get this done.

>While the girl was clearly acting a bit retarded and making a mountain out of a molehill
She's totally retarded in general and she has no fucking personality. I kicked out of my friends a while ago because she really is the most simple-minded girl I have met so far, to the point where she just copies other people. (if a friend of hers starts doing something, she'll get into it as well) I'm really glad I don't see her anymore.

>>50296137
No, it was just a subterfuge in order to distract the guard and cast a short-range hypnosis, we didn't ask her to fuck the guards or anything.

>>50296137
Being unable to know it's a fucking game and they're not actually whoring themselves makes them a worse player, yes. It's just like people who throws a tantrum when their character dies. Look at how it's the player, not the character, who has a problem with whoring (we never get to know the opinion of the character).

Not wanting to be pressured into someone she doesn't want to do is perfectly normal, and I right that I'm defending on the post you quote. As you will notice if you don't stop reading after the sentence that triggered your feels.

>>50296215
The problem is that such a person couldn't differenciate her and the character. Or it should be more precise that she felt it was HER that was adventuring, not that she was experiencing it by proxy of her character. Such notion doesn't seem to exist for simple-minded people like her.

>All these legit retards advocating for a person passing things "because I am high Cha"
>They then proceed to make analogies to sword swinging and casting spells.

Nope. Persuasion/Intimidate and so forth are skills like Athletics and Acrobatics.

And just like those skills, I demand a bit more of "I roll for X" to have them pass.

If a Barbarian is trying to climb up a rocky surface of a wall, He rolls and then describes.

if he says something retarded like "I leap up the solid surface" or "I run up the surface" he fails, even if the roll passes.

Just like when the sperg with 18 cha says he will seduce the Queen and then Awkwardly stutters himself and doesn't make even an attempt of a wooing, he will fail.

In my eyes, you fail to pass a skill check when you can't even describe the fucking skill you're doing.

>>50296334
>can't play a physicist in a modern game without a PHD
>can't play a magic user in any game ever, since nobody knows how the fuck magic works
>can't play a navigator in a sci-fi game without buying 20 splat books to understand how the fuck hyperspace works

"What are you doing" and "how do you do it" are all you need.

You (the player) don't need to swing a sword to roll to attack and you (the player) don't need to write a speech to sway the masses.

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>>50296334
>If a Barbarian is trying to climb up a rocky surface of a wall, He rolls and then describes.
>I climb the wall using my hands and feet.
Do you not know how people climb shit? What the fuck do you want senpai?

>>50296407
I want you to describe climbing a fucking wall.

I don't want you to roll a mystical dice and then suddenly expect your character to translocate from not being atop the wall to atop the wall based entirely on the whim of the gods.

>>50296407
Apparently there's people who doesn't know how people interact with other people, and that's the source of all the thread.

>>50296442
>I climb the wall using my hands and feet.

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>>50296442
I have neither words nor image enough to express my disbelief at the stupidity in this post, so have a terrible pun instead.

>>50296442
There's will to stay consistent and there's autism, dude.

>>50296466
>Halfway up the wall becomes a sheer cliff and you cannot get up merely on your hands and feet.

>>50296480
Clearly you can't play a high int social character can you then retard?

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>>50296500
>Halfway up the wall becomes a sheer cliff and you cannot get up merely on your hands and feet.
Is the wall also going to challenge me to a dance off to ensure that I'll never be able to climb it because the GM is a fucking idiot who would require me to describe the dance in microscopic detail?

I normally play with a group of pals where we don't give much of a fuck about dices and rules, being a support tool rather than what determines the outcome of things.

If I'm not playing with them and someone gets really anal about muh rolls and muh skills, I make them for example to forge an argument to convince the NPC. A dialogue or a monologue are preferable, but i'll accept a description (although you're handicaping yourself since tone and non-verbal comunication are often as important as words). Once I get this, they roll with the skill and the difficulty will be determined by how good they did in the previous step (along with other factors). It's basically what I do with my main group, but with them it's less rigid and the first step more important (often there's no roll, or we just roll to see the shades of the situation).

>>50296521
No. Here is how this works sperg.

I describe a cliff. I say it's rocky, smoothe, tall or rather small. You want to climb it, you take the ten seconds out of your autistic life to add just a little bit of that thing called adventure and describe how your character tackles the challenge.

Perhaps your character is adept at climbing and manages to navigate up the rocky wall purely by hand and foot?

Perhaps your character uses a tool or leverage to aid himself up the cliff

Perhaps your mighty strength allows you to carve your own holds in the rock through pure might.

If you can't take the time out to describe what you're doing even a little, what's the fucking point at all? Don't start complaining when I start doing the exact same as a DM.

>>50296466
Or:
>Rogar leaps at the cliff wall, tearing out rubble as he ferociously rips his way to the top, never glancing down at the horde in his pursuit.

One of those two actually adds to the game. It's not novel-worthy, but it's something. The other is completely sterile. Sure, I assumed context for this one, but every scene will have context to use anyway. I know which one I prefer.

>>50296582
>One of those two actually adds to the game.
I don't think it adds much at all. The wall's not an NPC and how he climbs it doesn't affect much of anything.

I don't understand this obsession with describing skill checks. If you want to do it, sure, go ahead, but I'm not going to penalize you or get upset if you don't describe in vivid detail how you go about doing something.

>>50296652
>I don't think it adds much at all.
Imagine reading a book written entirely in the style of "he climbs with his hands and legs".

>>50296652
I'm not asking for vivid detail. I'm asking for detail.

You want to do nothing but roll? Fine, I'll do the exact same as a DM.

>You are attacked by bandits in the forest
>They roll to attack

>The Dragon breathes it's fire

>You fail the diplomacy check.

Is this was autistic people describe as fun game dialogue?

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>>50296677
>comparing rpgs to books

>>50296718
Really? Just greentext with a "smug" anime girl? Try harder.

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>>50286399
I don't mind when a shy player tries to play the party face, I love playing conversations slowly and give tips so that he can try his best and have fun with it rather than just reducing the encounter to a roll.

On the other hand, I get extremely annoyed when a smartass tries to play the party face because his "natural personality is incredibly charming already" and that he deserves a +10 with any roll he tries for his narrative alone. His exploits include:
>rubbing his bulge under his pants to seduce a girl
>reading a (shitty) poem when he was caught red handed stealing in the mayor's house
>punching an old lady that stole some food from the market because she didn't have enough money to buy it
>groping the elf PC because "that's what his character would do"

>>50296690
Did autistic people miss the memo that roleplaying isn't only about the description of your attacks and skill checks?

>>50296677
If it's not some lynchpin of the entire plot designed to build further suspense, then I would prefer "he climbed the wall" with maybe an adjective or two thrown in to a Toklein-style four page description of something that doesn't matter to the story at all, yes. I'd prefer it to even two sentences, honestly.

Don't waste time with unnecessary details.

Writing 101.

>>50296677
You're not reading a book, you're playing a game, I don't care how I get up the wall unless something dramatic happens that makes how I get up the wall actually important.

>>50296751
You are exaggerating by quite a bit. Describing in a single sentence what an action looks like is not wasting time with unnessesary details.

>>50296769
>You're not reading a book, you're playing a game
A ROLE PLAYING game. A game whose purpose it is to play roles, or in other words convey character.

>>50296750
They missed the memo that Roleplaying is about social interaction period.

If you're not gonna bother, why should I?

>>50296751
I never said I wanted a paragraph, I said I wanted a description >>50296582
Is perfect.

>>50296793
"I climb the wall." is a single sentence. You're asking for more than that.

Purple prose is a big no-no. Get the point across and move on to more important things.

>>50296828
"Things happened" is also a single sentence. If you think either of those get the point across you are missing the point.

>>50296828
In that case, I will proceed to Get the point across as a DM.

No more "Useless" descriptors, only 5 word lines from now on.

You want to explore the town? Too bad, it's now only composed of 3 NPCs all plot important who only deliver quest text "To get the point across"

Welcome to Skyrim: The DnD Session. All so we can "Get the point across"

>>50296840
The point is that he got up the wall.

You don't need more than "He climbed the wall" to get it across.

You are not as interesting as you think you are.

Nobody wants to listen to you blather on about how cool your character is at climbing a wall.

Nobody.

Especially not me, the GM.

>>50296840
>"I climb the wall"
>"Things happened"
>Both are the same thing in the context of a tabletop RPG
Are you actually autistic?

>>50296861
Nice strawman, bruv.

Players need context to make appropriate in-character choices. They don't need a page of purple prose, but they do need context.

Nobody needs to know this shit about PC actions. It doesn't change the context for anyone. It doesn't reveal any hidden and mysterious character traits. It adds nothing to the game and only slows it down.

And before you say anything, I'm a GM. This isn't lazy player bias.

>>50296870
>The point is that he got up the wall.
It is not. People climb walls all the time in real life and nobody gives a shit.

The point is as always the character. The admittedly somewhat cheesy description I came up with paints the character as more beast than man, running in fear from a superior fow, metaphorical tail between his legs. It tells us something about the character. It describes him in a natural way. Just like our actions in real life describe our personalities, the actions of our characters describe theirs. And that is the point of a role playing game, the roles the players play in it.

>>50296877
I am saying that they are not the same thing. Just like "he climbed the wall" and a description of how he did it are not the same thing.

>>50296906
Well congrats, you're a shit GM With shit players.

If the point is "Speed the game up" why even bother with anything?

The Players don't need to know shit when they're so devoid of any merit they can't even describe climbing a wall with any gusto.

Maybe it's just your shitty group though eh bud? Because it comes naturally to my friends when they play.

Then again, you're probably one of the same stupid fucks who compares shit like that to combat skills

>>50296928
>rom a superior fow
I of course meant to write foe.

>>50296943
I hit someone is just as uninteresting as I roll to seduce. If you don't put ANYTHING into describing something, you pretty much do a disservice to the game. If you wanted to just roll dice you could just play a video game.

>>50296943
Do you make them describe eating with gusto? What about taking a shit?

Some things are so banal that it's ridiculous to demand people waste time describing it beyond that it happened.

>>50296928 is right. People climb walls all the time in real life and nobody gives a shit. So why waste your breath on it?

And for the dozenth time this thread, all skills are the same. However you treat combat skills, treat social skills the same. Because they are the same. And anything else is you being an arbitrary dick to your players. Skills exist as part of a character sheet because characters are not players, and skills are an unbiased way to differentiate what the character can do rather than what the player can do. That fact does not change just because they're social skills.

>>50296992
>So why waste your breath on it?
Yeah, why give a damn about the characters in the story you are trying to tell.

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>>The point is that he got up the wall.
>It is not. People climb walls all the time in real life and nobody gives a shit.
>Just like "he climbed the wall" and a description of how he did it are not the same thing.
>The Players don't need to know shit when they're so devoid of any merit they can't even describe climbing a wall with any gusto.
Today I've learned that some people have really strange priorities when it comes to tabletop RPGs.

>>50297017
The characters are a stange priority in an RPG?

>>50296992
Congrats, you ousted yourself as a Sperg who completely lacks attention and that's why your games suck ass.

I don't describe shitting or eating, But you bet your fucking ass I describe foot served with mouth watering detail.

I mean let's use your DM style shall we?

>You enter the Inn, There is food and drink on the table

And mine

>As you enter the Inn, your nostrils are struck by the smell of glistening roasted Gammon and the hearty smell of fresh flowing ale.

Oh look, your way sucks.

>>50297007
Climbing the wall has nothing to do with the characters. No grand secret is being revealed in where they put their little toe when scaling the wall.

If "they are more beast than man" hasn't come across in dozens of far more important interactions before this point, then you have far bigger problems than wall-climbing in your game.

It has absolutely nothing to do with fleshing out characters and everything to do with stroking your own metaphorical cock and wasting everyone's time.

>>50297029
>I describe foot served with mouth watering detail.
Subhuman foot fetishist.

>>50297029
I can feel the cringe.

>>50297029
Great. Now all you need is an entire group of players using vivid descriptions all the time, and you're set. Enjoy your freeform RP.

>>50297029
That's pretty cringe, m8. Also a sure sign of a GM stuck up their own ass. I wouldn't stick around for that kind of game.

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>>50297065
haha Well shit.

I meant food.

>>50297075
>>50297092

>It's cringe to make your INNS have smells and descriptions

Fuck me, why not just play a video game then?

Oh wait, even Video Games try and be more descriptive and full than your autistic games.

>>50297076
>Talking and setting the mood is now freeform RP

So you're basically autistic rollplayers with no brain for anything creative?

Gotcha

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>>50286399
>that feel when you're that face
>nobody else wants to take that role

>>50297103
If you're spending more time describing than playing the game through its rules, then yeah, it's more freeform RP than game.

>>50297112
Nobody else wants to take the roll because of shit GMs like OP who want to punish face characters with all these weird rules and exceptions nobody else has to put up with.

>>50297127
>It's wrong for people who are playing a roleplaying game to actually play the role.

>>50287353
Holy shit my sides

>>50297137
>one player in a game has to use different rules than all the others because I say so

>>50297056
>If "they are more beast than man" hasn't come across in dozens of far more important interactions
You mean in ones described in more detail than "I climb with hands and feet"?

Just to be clear here, I don't have strict rules at my table that every single action has to be described in at least 15 words or it doesn't happen. I just appreciate it when players inject a little passion into the game. For example they could describe the ritual they use to conjure forth a fireball. If they then toss out five more over the course of a battle, we can just fast-forward it. But hearing at least once how the boastful sorcerer taunts his foes, inhaling large quantities of black powder and spewing what looks like a dragons head made of flame which bursts into multicolored firework just makes it so much more enjoyable. It adds emotion, it underlines character. With stuff like that, I know it's worth spending hours of work on preparing a session.

>>50297122
What if we do both?

What do the rules say when the Party is in an Inn, relaxing and trying to find the next plot hook?

Oh right, how dare we have social interaction in a social game, it scares the spergs.

>>50297146
If you're shit at socialising, why are you even in a DnD group?

People who play the Party Face are usually either naturally inclined to be a leader and make choices or they're an autist trying to powergame.

>>50297122
>If you're spending more time describing than playing
Describing IS playing.

>>50297169
It's a roleplaying game. The character is performing the actions, not the player. Arbitrarily making one particular player rely on his real life skills rather than in-character skills is both against the spirit (and rules) of the game and an all-around dick move.

>>50297146
Good players get rewarded, bitches get told to leave.

Fuck off, casual scum.

>>50297172
>cutting out "through its rules" to create a strawman
Fuck off. Games are defined by their rules. Without rules, there is no game.

>>50297146
>I'm a fucking baby who wants to win forever X card X card let me have my power fantasy

>>50297187
And the DnD rules say the DM has the final say on Skill check results, and even describes what i stated in this thread.

Deal with it sperg.

>>50297158
I don't even actually mind people describing stuff. It's when you force people to do it or penalize people for not being good at it. It's about character skill, not player skill. That's the whole point. There's where "roles" come in.

>>50297187
This is like making the player with the shoe token in Monopoly move his piece with his foot or he loses $200 every time he passes Go. It doesn't make sense, it's entirely arbitrary, it doesn't follow the rules, and it's an all-around dick move. It's not about "good players." How good you are doesn't enter into it. You're just punishing an archetype for no reason.

>>50297187
Why are you even on a board about role playing games when you don't fucking roleplay? Your selfishness drags the entire game down because you can't handle someone getting rewarded because of your "I want a trophy too" mentality. Is it so much to ask that you put effort into the game or are you legitimately retarded and more interested in wanking over numbers?

>>50297216
DnD is shit and has always been shit. What's your point?

Saying the GM can break the rules in the rules does not make the rules good.

>>50297218
Well I'm not a tactician. My fighter should win ALL fights by default because he's a master tactician in his backstory.

There, the entire game ends at character creation, fucking happy now, faggot?

>>50297216
Yeah, the DM has the say because the DM sets the DC.

>>50297218
>You're just punishing an archetype for no reason
Did you misquote or something?

>>50297229
Board about traditional games. Also, you might be replying to the wrong person, too.

>>50297180
When the sperg rolls to seduce, I do not literally want him to seduce me. I want him to attempt to say WHAT he is doing.

Alright, I'll nail this out because it's clear you're a fucking invalid.

>Sperg says he wants to seduce the Empress
>He succeeds with a natural 20

How am I supposed to have the Empress Respond if he doesn't describe it?

He could be the most handsome man in Handsome town, but if he shouts "Show me your tits" The Empress will NOT do as he says, and may even be offended by such uncouth shit.

>>50297237
>B-But DnD is shit
>Literally every PnP game says the DM has the last say

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>>50297218
You get rightfully penalized for not doing it because you're contributing nothing to the game. At that point you might as well just sit in the corner with a gameboy and play Makai Toushi SaGa.

>>50289386
An anon needs a name,anon

>>50287295
>I spend so much of my time here pretending to be retarded that sometimes I forgot we aren't all pretending.
Pro tip: If you spend enough time rolling around with filthy, flea ridden dogs pretending to be one of them, you are no longer pretending to be filthy and flea ridden.

>>50297239
>Well I'm not a tactician. My fighter should win ALL fights by default because he's a master tactician in his backstory.
No, he rolls the dice and then we find out if he wins or not.

>>50297239
Did you even read the post? Gods damn. You people are dense.

THIS. IS. WHY. SKILLS. ARE. ON. THE. SHEET.

They are unbiased arbitrators for what your character is capable of. Player skill should not enter into it. If you want to be a master tactician, give your character the skills. Roll the skills when they come up. Your GM should not expect you to memorize Sun Tzu's Art of War to play your role adequately. In fact, having it memorized should not affect your character in the slightest. Because the player is not the character.

That's the real irony here. The people insisting on "roleplay not rollplay!" don't grasp the basic concept that /YOU ARE NOT YOUR CHARACTER/ and therefor /YOUR SKILLS SHOULD NOT IMPACT YOUR CHARACTER'S SKILLS/.

Hopefully the emphasis will get it through your skull.

>>50297260
>Sets the DC

See >>50297261

Go play a video game sperg.

>>50297260
>Did you misquote or something?
Yes. I did. I guess your reply came in when I was clicking on >>50297181

Sorry.

>>50297181
>Good players get rewarded, bitches get told to leave.
I can't agree with that either. If a player has trouble roleplaying, encourage them. Often they are just not used to it. I know I wasn't at first. Not to claim I am a genius now, but at least I got better.

>>50297187
>Games are defined by their rules. Without rules, there is no game.
I have not claimed otherwise. The rules are the framework. The role play is what fills it.

>>50297218
>I don't even actually mind people describing stuff. It's when you force people to do it or penalize people for not being good at it. It's about character skill, not player skill. That's the whole point. There's where "roles" come in.
And to be even clearer, I don't force nor penalize. If a player goes "I cast magic missle" I'll ask them questions along the lines of "how do you do that?" or "what do they look like?". I want to learn about their characters. It's little things like these that make them characters instead of cardboard cutouts. Sure, your roll determines wether or not they hit and how much damage they deal.

The rolls determine the success of the character. The description determines the success of the player. That success is the enjoyment of the rest of the group.

>>50297296
And the less you use those rules, the less you are playing the game and the better you would be served doing freeform.

One of my GMs was this exact "descriptor" type of guy that would force everyone to describe their attacks every single time.

I swear if I have to specify the angle from which I swing my sword one more fucking time I'm going to throw up.

>>50297280
Sorry Sperg, wrong.

NPCs are roleplayed as people, they don't magically get controlled by a Persuasion check.

You can't walk up to a guard go

>I persuade the guard to leave
>*Roll*

Succeed and then leave it. How is the Guard going to leave? am I supposed to make something up as the DM?

If I get a sperg reply like "I convince him his Commander said he needs to go" without ANY more detail.

It's a fucking fail. I am the DM, GIVE ME SOMETHING TO WORK WITH.

>>50297353
I'm pretty sure this is a falseflag.

>>50297344
>the less you use those rules, the less you are playing the game
That is simply not true. Roleplaying games consist of more than just rolling dice. Every "how to play" section at the start of a rulebook will tell you that.

>>50297353

See

>>50293401
>Some things are just impossible.
>You can't end the world with a single spell as a magic-user.
>You can't destroy a castle with a single swing of a sword as a warrior.
>You can't talk a king into giving you his crown with a single speech as party face.
>You seem to be missing the core argument here.
>"They are all the same; treat them as such."

also

>>50294685
>I require a "what are you trying to do" and "how are you trying to do it"

I already covered this shit.

>>50297379
That would be the roleplaying aspect of a roleplaying game, yes. But the game part is what makes it different from freeform.

>>50297380
So then he needs to describe what he's doing then.

And if he can't he fails.

Simple.

>>50297392
We might be descending into nitpicking here when we are actually agreeing on a point. Rules and roleplay form the unity that is a roleplaying game.

>>50297395
>And if he can't he fails.
I dislike that attitude. If he can't describe it, try to talk to the guy. Get him to voice what he imagines happening. It's a cooperative game after all.

>>50297421
If he doesn't get it after failing a few times then he shouldn't be playing.

>>50297421
To summarize my point, spending valuable time to describe things in unnecessary detail takes away from GAME time.

>>50297421
>I dislike that attitude. If he can't describe it, try to talk to the guy. Get him to voice what he imagines happening. It's a cooperative game after all.

I will do that, if he STILL can't describe it, then he fails.

I had a guy with a sutter, was terrible at prolonged sentences, yet he still took the time to try and describe his sentences with more gusto. Even ONE FUCKING WORD makes

>I climb the Wall

to

>I Frantically climb the wall

So much better and emotive.

>>50297450
Then go roll dice somewhere else sperg. I have had entire sessions go without a SINGLE DICE rolled.

>>50297450
Aww diddums he only wants to fight monsters

>>50297450
It baffles me that you don't get this: Telling a story is the reason a lot of people play roleplaying games. It's not playing the system. Board games and video games do both better.

>>50297446
>If he doesn't get it after failing a few times then he shouldn't be playing.
That is true, but an attempt should be made. Someone who really wants to roleplay will usually find a way.

>>50297481
>Board games and video games do both better.
"Board games and video games both do that better." is what I wanted to write. It's getting late here.

I hope I don't get any elitist wanna-be writers in my game.

>>50297500
I hope I don't get any /v/-tier players in my game.

>>50297395
>dice says the spell is successfully cast and hits the target
>"Describe how you make the spell hit. You can't? Well you didn't hit shit, too bad"
It's up to the DM to improvise whenever's needed. Or next time a player roll a 1, it will be up to them to choose whatever harm befalls them, right? That way, they can get away unscathed from a fail while crossing a rather shabby suspended bridge 500m above the ground, right?

Fuck you.

>>50297395
Because I am a pedant and new to this discussion, let's go back to the "climbing a cliff" analogy:

If a PC says "I attempt the climb the cliff face" or "I get to the wall and start climbing," what more do you want? Do you want them to explain to you the use of pitons and friction knots; and corollary, does having n-ranks in a skill
>imply
the automatic use of equipment? Does having equipment give a bonus to the check? E.g., Does Skill: Mechanic mean every time I attempt to use that skill, I am assumed to have/need a tool box? I just don't see you being consistent of objective

>Role playing game
>People don't role play
>Instead want to roll play

Damn people and their failure to understand homophones

>>50297532
Yes.

Git gud, nigger.

With the amount of strawmen in this thread a single spark would set everything on fire.

>>50297511
>next time a player roll a 1, it will be up to them to choose whatever harm befalls them, right?
As a side note: With mature players you can do that. And by mature I mean players that don't try to win an RPG.

As a DM I will insist upon the last word, but taking suggestions is hardly ever a bad idea.

>>50297547
Yeah, fucking homophobes.

>>50297532
Depends really. I will usually give them a discription or a "Hook" for their own descriptions

I won't go

>Here is a cliff Climb y/n

I'll usually go

>A rugged cliff with an overhang stands before you

or

>A short cliff with a smooth surface blocks your escape

I would like to see how they tackle it. Often difficult climbs will have multiple rolls.

Yes, if they have equipment, I'd like them to describe using it.

Having a Barbarian describe how he climbs the cliff using a Hooked rope in one hand and his Warpick gouging into the rock is better than

>I have a rope for +1
>I climb
>I climb
>I am at the top

>>50297547
Of course, participation should be expected from the players but you don't have to expect the kind of autism shown above. At worst, if a player is not willing to cooperate, just kill his character and kick him out of the table. Simple.

>>50297569
Sorry but full blown concentration and acting at all times is incredibly wearying for the mind. I'm willing to cooperate but any DM who fucks with me because I'm not playing my character efficiently and not describing my every action after 4 hours of constant RPing will get nothing but my crumpled character sheet in the face before I slam the door. People aren't part of your fantasy, get some social skills and don't fuck with them.

>>50297556
There are dozens upon dozens of skill related checks that can be attempted with absolutely 0 tools; your supposition is flawed.

>>50297590
A lot of that is how you set them up, mate. Even more of it is consistency; are your PCs *incapable* of doing whatever you say is *impossible* no matter what their skill or attempt is? If so, you have failed as a DM

>>50297665
>Sorry but full blown concentration and acting at all times is incredibly wearying for the mind. I'm willing to cooperate but any DM who fucks with me because I'm not playing my character efficiently and not describing my every action after 4 hours of constant RPing will get nothing but my crumpled character sheet in the face before I slam the door. People aren't part of your fantasy, get some social skills and don't fuck with them.
You're acting as if you're expected to perform world-class acting non-stop, when really all that is asked is that you formulate your sentences with a bit more elegance and detail than "I do thing". Show your DM that you enjoy the game and not are not just going through the motions.

>>50297469
>I have had entire sessions go without a SINGLE DICE rolled.
That is literally freeform RP. Why would you even disagree with me if that can happen? I honestly can't tell why you insist on playing roleplaying games instead of freeform if you enjoy the descriptions more than the game.

>>50297737
>You're acting as if you're expected to perform world-class acting non-stop, when really all that is asked is that you formulate your sentences with a bit more elegance and detail than "I do thing".
If that is really what you are arguing, then your given examples are total shit. More likely is you're moving goalposts.

>>50296751
>Don't waste time with unnecessary details.
>Writing 101.

??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Are you literally retarded?

Maybe you should write a book in the style of a lab report - that'd be a really fun read.

>I strike the bandit and hit
>The bandit strikes back at me and misses
>I strike the bandit and hit
>The bandit falls down
>I then spend three days on the road before i make contact with the royal family

What a fun book!

>>50297469
So you made sure to penalize him for his reckless speed when wall climbing, right? Because, like you said, description matters so much more than the roll.

>>50297890
>still comparing tabletop RPGs to books

>>50297910
Tone it down a bit mate, no ones going to be interested once you make your bait too obvious.

And this children is why you do not play with /tg/.

>>50298036
If people on /tg/ actually started to take part in RPGs as GMs and players, it would be like a tide of pure neckbeard shit and autism rushing over the continent.

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>>50297904
>Guy calls something writing 101
>Not about books

The sperg obviously talked about actual writing.

But getting back to the point, i agree with people in this thread saying that you should, at the very least, attempt to contribute to the roleplaying. It's boring as shit for the DM if they just sit there and crunch numbers for you, then you might as well play any of the gorillion different faux-RPG's from Bioware or other companies like them.

TTRPGs are about player interaction and creating a fun and engaging storyline together, and that responsibility falls on everyone involved, not just the DM.

of course, you also have to accound for every players circumstances - DMs like >>50297469 is entirely correct - you can't have the same standard for everyone.

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Alright listen up you handicapped fucks.

Let's say I am a Wizard with a godlike Intelligence/Wisdom.
I end up in a situation which requires actual logical thinking and I make a very stupid choice.
Would you make the character succeed anyways and do a completely different thing than what the player described just because "Hurr, the character is smart so even if the player is retarded he succeeds" ?

The same line of reasoning applies to influencing other people with your social skills.
You don't have to have godlike acting or social skills to convince me, but you should at the very least describe what you want to do and how you do it.
You don't have to say the exact words as if you were trying to convince me, but at least put in the minimum effort... and if you're too dumb, lazy or socially inept to do it, you are not going to be rewarded for your idiotic decisions just because you dumped a bunch of points into a stat.

I would never allow a player to go "Well, I roll Charisma to make this guy do what I want!".
You are playing a character, not a ball of stats.

>>50297267

Larkin Love.

>character with low CHA
>player plays them like a suave, smart-talking high CHA character
>constantly rolls well

>>50298530
That's why you have a DM telling you to fuck off.

A single character should not be able to dominate a game like that.

>>50298530
If the player is playing them smart, then the GM should either be telling them to act more in-character or at least not giving bonuses for what they say.

If they have low Charisma then even great rolls still shouldn't be enough to pass the higher tests that REQUIRE that high charisma.

Also if he's constantly rolling well check those motherfucking dice and/or ask him to roll for you because that motherfucker either has the luck or loaded dice.

>>50298254
>Would you make the character succeed anyways and do a completely different thing than what the player described just because "Hurr, the character is smart so even if the player is retarded he succeeds" ?

If I thought they were making a decision that's really stupid where I knew this character would know better I'd call for some sort of roll and, depending on what they rolled because even smart make really stupid decisions occasionally, I'd explain that they're smart enough to know that this is a really bad idea/this probably isn't going to work at all/they remember some important detail that they have out-of-character obviously forgotten/something to that effect.

>>50286399
your an idiot who cant see the socially skilled character but only his player

>>50293401
>You can't destroy a castle with a single swing of a sword as a warrior.

Could you destroy a McDonalds as a 20th level warrior?

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Isn't this game supposed to be fun?

Can't players just play with those who have similar roleplay vs dice expectations?

>>50299376
The franchise? Probably.

>>50298254
>Let's say I am a Wizard with a godlike Intelligence/Wisdom.
>I end up in a situation which requires actual logical thinking and I make a very stupid choice.
GM intervenes and asks the player to make an INT check. If they succeed the GM quickly explains why that's retarded and play continues. This is a WAY better solution than letting the in world 20 INT wizard inexplicably become retarded.
Do other people really not do this? Do you not let your tacician fighter players know when they are about to make the kind of tactical blunder a 3 year old could see through? Or at least have a fair roll to see if they catch themselves?
Now before you strawman me to shit and back I'm not saying you intervene for actions that are simply wrong or mediocre, but if you have player characters acting out of character just because the player lacks expertise then you should be confident in stepping in and helping the player. Why even let dumb players grab INT or shy players grab CHA if you're going to be a tremendous shit gargler and not let their stats help them?

As for social rolls
>Have spent session gathering information with the party
>We all discuss between ourselves the best way to approach talking to the NPC
>We reach a convincing argument with the evidence to back it up
>Being the player character with the most CHA I by a wide margin I am the one to follow through and actually talk to the guy
>Say to GM "I present my argument, use these points of reasoning and these points of evidence and say it in this way"
>Grab dice ready for diplomacy
>GM gives a shit eating grin and says "Rollplay it"
Fuck off you tremendous cuntwaffle. Just go choke on an expensive platter of dicks. We've worked hard all session getting this shit and you want to cock it all up just so you can trip us up because the player behind the character can't articulate his points well on the spot or remember all he needs to? Well the fucking character can you sperg, just let a nigga roll.

>Party member dies due to bad rolls/decisions
>Be somewhat exited because I've never played a game where the GM doesn't remove all real danger and fudges dice/rules in order to keep PC's alive
>Now that I think about it, never seen another player character die
>GM allows dead party member to come back as a ready-to-quest ghost with mild adjustments to his character sheet that if anything make him MORE powerful

>>50286399
>be DM
>"why don't you try and convince the slaver not to sell the child?"
>"but none of us have any ranks in diplomacy!"
>"I don't know, how about you try using your words instead of your fucking dice because this is a roleplaying game and not a casino table"
Well, I said it much more tactfully...

But that shit really grinds my gears. If you're an Orc with a Cha of 8 but you give an impassioned, beautiful speech I'm going to fucking give it to you because you've actually done something.

>>50287396
IT'S A NAT 20! ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN!

I ROLLED NAT 20 DISABLE DEVICE ON AN ANCIENT RED DRAGON AND DISABLED HIS LUNGS!

But then later I rolled a nat 1 on an attack roll and killed myself and the cleric standing next to me so we both had to make new characters ;( :( :(

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>>50286399
>group basically hates me
>I'm dead to the GM
>nobody wants to say why to my face, everyone just stops talking when I show up

I can smell it on you. The passive-aggressive bit is MY bit, get your own.

>>50299770
To be fair, in this example it was a Nat 20 + 40 from everything else. Literally godlike. Even if the BBEG didn't spontaneously off himself the GM at minimum should have had him out of the fight, shaken and needing to recover and get his shit together. Dude just had his worldview blasted with precision the likes of which had never been seen before on this earth.
If you don't let your players pull off amazing heroic feats even when they have more than enough modifiers and literally roll 20s then you are a bad GM.

>>50286399
>Party expects you to forego social rolls in favor of determining your success based on what you actually say
>Doesn't expect the guy playing the fighter to bludgeon a wolf to death with a hammer every time one shows up during the mountain expedition

>>50286399
I was in a group that there was a guy with a nearly debilitating stutter that would always play bards, and because of that pretty much demanded to be in the middle of every social encounter. would also try and sing at times.
Other than that he was a pretty okay guy once you got through the language barrier. The DM was a sperglord though that got really upset whenever we got lucky and succeeded at something too easily.

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>>50296138
>We didn't do RP that much back when I was playing with them but for some reason, the GM really wanted to have the RP part done

you basically helped a GM force his magical realm on to some unsuspecting girl

>>50299743
So you don't expect players to roleplay their characters flaws.

>>50286399
I've long since learned that I'm better suited to playing the fighter. Not so much because I can't role-play but because whenever I'm the face of the group combat does not become an issue, makes the game less fun for everyone (and I become a raging psychopath). In fact I killed an entire crew in Star Wars without being in a room.

>>50299524
This man knows what's up.

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>>50296138
>>50300041
>anon basically helped a GM force his magical realm on to some unsuspecting retarded girl
FTFY

>>50297858
They're examples. And I don't always live up to them myself. But even something like a single adjective adds character to an action. Which is, and I am shocked I even need to state this, what RPGs are about.

>>50298925
It was on Roll20 - the player just had the blessings of RNG, and the high cha guys tended to roll poorly (myself included). Game's long since over, I just wanted to vent a little.

>>50297845
Why don't you just play WoW instead? Mechanics only and the bare minimum of story inbetween. Or open up a rule book, ANY RPG rule book, and read the "what is an RPG" paragraph.

>>50299743
>If you're an Orc with a Cha of 8 but you give an impassioned, beautiful speech
I like to think of it as one of those situations where it sounds like a beautiful speech to the character, but everyone around him is just confused at the gibberish they're spouting.

>>50292032
>"If you aren't charismatic irl then you can't be charismatic in my scientific realm"
Do you have all of the fighters send you pics of their abs and arms before you let them have 18 strength?
What a fucking piece of shit you are. I don't know what kind of garbage GM would go so far as to tell people NOT to role play in their fucking roleplaying game, let alone doing it because he doesn't like playing with nerds in the nerdiest activity imaginable.

>Fighting off an invading band of demons from a torture dimension
>I am fighting one with my sword, the others run away (about 3 of them)
>"Jake" grapples the one I'm fighting and begins interrogating it
>I tell the GM that I run after the fleeing demons
>GM tells me to wait while Jake interrogates the Demon in the middle of combat
>His questions are pointless
Did I mention that Jake is borderline retarded? Like, he's literally illiterate? His questions were basically "What's your name?" And "Where are you from" (we already knew that one)

>After about 10 minutes of Jake stumbling through his shitty dialogue, he suddenly snaps the demon's neck
>I ask the GM if I can run after the demon's now
>"No, they're long gone by now"

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>>50293286
>Go play out your power fantasy elsewhere
>Instead of in my fantasy game
?????

>>50301445
>demon from a torture dimension
>a torture dimension

"Jake" should have had a high DC intimidation roll to pass before getting anything but a wad of spit to the face and a laugh from that demon.

>>50301504
You might have guesses from the story that this GM sucks.

We have a pretty healthy gaming group where we have at least 5 or 6 games to choose from, and this game is by far the worst. The GM has no idea how to tell a story, the system is baffling (I have a degree in math from one of the most prestigious universities in the world and I think that there's too many numbers), and I don't like the setting.

>>50301540
That blows. Any signs of the DM learning/improving?

>>50293479
Speaking of halbreds, why have I never seen anyone using any polearms? I kind of want to make a character with a polearm now.

>>50301582
Part of the reason I've never used polearms is because they can't really be sheathed without handwaving the sheer size of them. They're great when fighting but out of combat you're the guy lumbering around with a big, visible weapon.

>>50301563
Nope. He's the oldest of all of us and he's set in his ways

>>50297239

If he's a master tactician and rolls the skills for it he can easily get in a situation where a battle is easier because his force gets in a good flanking position or organises an ambush. That's the point of the skill, after all.

I've allowed someone in D&D4e to get a more favourable start to a battle due to Knowledge(History).

>>50286399
Hey guys you know what makes an amazing story?

that time sperglord mcfucktard persuaded the guard to jump off a bridge

what, you wanted details? anon, that can't really happen! Why should we give details?

>>50287973
/tg/ the post

>>50286399
>>50286480
>Playing a rouge
>Other players are new and kind of hesitant to participate/shy
>Because I'm one of the few players talking, my rcharacter becomes the face
Goddammit, I'm supposed to sneak and shit not talk to people

>GM makes your face character invincible because of importance to the story
Annoying as fuck. I want a sense of danger and to be punished for shitty decisions. It doesn't help that he shoved a plot important NPC into a relationship with my character and has anger issues so I can't do anything to just outright fuck with him.

>>50299964
Holy fuck, my DM's the same. The nigger fucking threw his notebook across the room and screamed at us when we made a large important battle easier through common sense and logic.

>>50286777
I hope you brought your sandals, because I'm going to need you to squat your character's supposed strength limit

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>Socially awkward player plays the party face
>Roll with it because I'm not a prick to my friends
I mean what else do you want me to do?

>>50302839
I play roleplaying games. Not weight lifting games.

>>50302901
How can you role play properly if you don't embody your character?
Get those sandals on and get squatting

Feels good to be in a group where everyone is fine with just a straight up:
>I'll try to persuade the NPC
<okay whats your angle t. GM
>remind him of our character's status
<okay, roll

And for combat
>I'll shoot the closest orc
<right, roll
>hits with x stats
<orc has his brains splatter on the ground.

For some more epic conversations with big shots, or some impressive feats we go a bit more complex but for fucks sake, you don't have to explain in painstaking detail how you climb a bloody wall.

>>50302942
What you are not getting is: Anything (within reasonable limits) a player can do to better portray his character is valid. If a guy actually squats the weight his character is, that's fine. If a guy shows up in the clothing his character is wearing that's great. All of these methods for portraying the character are great, it just happens that talking like them or describing their actions is the easiest and something everyone can do.

>>50302976
More power to you, but that sounds dull as fuck. Might as well play a wargame. At least those can have tactical depth.

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>>50286399
>autistic guy plays shy stuttering character
>still wants to talk
>starts his line stuttering
>stutters out of character
>starts entire sentence again
>stutters out of character
>starts entire sentence again
>literally everyone else in the skype call is getting sick of his shit.

why is he inflicting this upon us? He took 5 minutes to ask an npc why they were attacking a merchant caravan, (not 5 minutes to get the answer out of the dm, 5 minutes just to get the question out)

why

>>50302995
Meh, I suppose. That's just how we like it. I mean we occasionally try to do "real role playing" where everyone has to talk in character but it just feels forced as fuck to everyone.
>intimidate the guy by pointing a gun at his face
The important thing to us is just what angle you're going for. You don't have to stand up and do some attack motions or try to mimic a voice and yell at others "tell me about Bane!"
Sure, sometimes people get into it and actually do it and everyone has a good time, but forcing it on every miniscule action is just a drag desu.

I'm not the group GM btw

>>50303032
Why not just say
>I ask the NPC why they're attacking the caravan

>>50303038
>intimidate the guy by pointing a gun at his face
If everyone knows it's a toy gun, why not?

>>50303058
It was just an example.
>what are you doing
Intimidate
>what's the angle you're going for
Pointing a gun at him

After rolling
>the guy spills the beans; he stutters that he hid the Jews under his floorboards

Don't need much more than that to have a good time

>>50303050
My post didn't show up but I don't feel like typing it all out again.

I tried that in a previous session but he waited until I ask the question then said "Is it my turn to talk now" and fucked up asking it 2 more times.

I'm not sure if he's fucking with us or not.

>>50303103
But does the character just wordlessly point the gun at the guy? Does he shouting at him how he is betraying the Vaterland? As a DM I want to know those things.

The DM in your example described in sufficient detail the result of the action. Why should the player not describe the action in similar detail?