I hate the Grey Knights. I hate the Grey Knights so much. They're

>>50224239
Do you deserve anything you have, OP?

>>50224239
The only reason why they're better than every other faction at literally everything is because someone gave a sweaty autistic neckbeard free reigns over the lore for a few years, and in that time he inserted his own power-tripping faction into the canon. And now you're telling me they have the Emperor's geneseed? Fucking fuck fuck no. Not this. They don't deserve it. This isn't my canon.

>>50224239
Nobody asked you, but alright

Sage

>>50224239
The only thing worse than Grey Knights is Space Wolves.

>>50224239
k

>>50224347
Fucking this!

Fuck the space wolves so much

>>50224287
That was always there, I think it's dumb that the emperor has Geneseed at all though

>>50224239
They have emps geneseed and the best hardware there is, but they fight more than most chapters and sustain casualties like any other Astartes, That`s why they are always spread thin. And they deals with demons better than any other chapter would. They deserve anything they got.

>>50224945
>Emperor's Geneseed.
Hold the fuck up, I thought ALL Space Marines have the Emperor's Geneseed?
>Emperor makes Primarchs
>Geneseeds from Primarchs make their soldiers more like them
>And thus, a little like the Emperor
There was some fluffy shit I read where all that makes it easier for the Black Carapace to link with a Space Marine's nervous system, but I could be wrong.

Anyway, all Space Marines are little Empra's, or are you saying some cock-holster made it so the Grey Knights have the uncut, Colombian-grade geneseed from Emps himself?

>>50224945
>I think it's dumb that the emperor has Geneseed at all though
This, I assume it's something else they call geneseed for analogy sake.

>>50225228
That is what has been implied for a while in fluff but left ambigious, while the latest entry in the Beast books makes it clear that is in fact what happened

>>50225228
>are you saying some cock-holster made it so the Grey Knights have the uncut, Colombian-grade geneseed from Emps himself
yes

>>50224347
>>50224937
They both suck so much ass, very off putting

>>50224239

As with everything, Grey Knights are the ruins of a concept made back in 3rd Edition*. Codex:Daemonhunters was the first real incarnation that went into any depth with them, and it's a Codex that's still really fucking cool to this day.

The C:DH version were literally grey knights, falling apart from the white knights they are today. They were more like black ops, sent in to do terrible things because they needed doing and they were the only ones who could.
The Chaos corruption was the result of *massive* indoctrination and mental conditioning, rather than 'Just because'. The threat of a Grey Knight turning was a real thing and a real threat, because it was still *possible* if unlikely.
They were absolutely not good people. They did terrible things and killed millions of innocent, to save the majority. Truly grey morality where killing innocents today, saves more tomorrow.
Killing Angron took an entire Company with him and they had no individual who could claim to match a Greater Daemon, much less a Primarch. Even the Grand Masters were not perfect and while they were mighty, would still be an unsure fight with a Bloodthirster.

The whole book was simply a more mature take on the concept of ultimate evil and the cost of standing against it.

It also helped that the army was weak as balls, the stock model was 25pts and almost nobody played them.

*When they became a real army, rather than a footnote

>>50225316
,

>>50225316
It seems the shilling may have been from nobody playing them, also I don't belive in the lesser evil, evil is evil and in that state I'd have never collected them

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>>50224287
>someone gave a sweaty autistic neckbeard free reigns over the lore for a few years, and in that time he inserted his own power-tripping faction into the canon.
But Andy Chambers was clean shaven for his reign as Overfiend.

>>50225228
Emps engineered a super-special new gene-seed just for them so that they're even closer to him than other mehreens.

>IN THE EMPEROR’S IMAGE
>The Grey Knights’ strength of spirit and purity of body were the two most important gifts the Emperor passed on to the Chapter through his genetic legacy. Their military training, potent weaponry and powerful armour are simply tools to aid them in their duty. Without the psychic might to use his force blade or the inviolate will to resist the Daemon, a Grey Knight is the same as any other Space Marine – a potent soldier in the Emperor’s armies but nonetheless a mere shadow of his true potential. Few warriors since the Horus Heresy have matched the flawlessness of the Grey Knights, nor are any so closely linked to the Emperor. It is that unique quality that the Emperor possesses, the nature of his spirit that allows him to touch the Warp, shape it to his will, and yet remain beyond its madness, that he has gifted to the Grey Knights. Even the Space Marines of the Adeptus Astartes are too far removed from their creator to embody such purity, their genetic integrity faded by hundreds of generations and thousands of years, given to varying degrees of imperfection. Not so the Grey Knights, whose unblemished line reaches back to their maker in an unbroken chain.

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>>50225502
>Only an unblemished soul is proof against spiritual assault, and of all the servants of the Emperor the Grey Knights are among the rare few to be all but immune. Each Grey Knight is a one in a billion example of Humanity that has an instinctual command of his psychic powers, the rarest of genetic traits that, when combined with the gene-seed of the Grey Knights, grows into a formidable and exceptional tool to combat Daemons. Without these gifts a mortal man might become a plaything for the powers of the Warp, his body twisted into vile and terrible new forms or his psyche ripped asunder by daemonic thoughts and visions.

>The Warp can corrupt even a Space Marine, the lies of the Chaos Gods subverting his martial pride or loyalty to the Emperor into a dark and dangerous thing. Power armour and bolt rounds can protect neither man nor Space Marine from the Immaterium, should they be exposed to its baleful energies. The Emperor alone was said to be incorruptible before the Dark Gods, and it is this gift he was rumoured to have passed on to the Grey Knights. Certainly, despite countless battles against daemonic forces and in the hundred centuries since their creation, not a single Grey Knight has succumbed to the influence of the Ruinous Powers – a testament to the skill of their creator and the dedication they embody.

That's from the current, post-Ward codex, pic is from the previous.

>>50225316
>The C:DH version were literally grey knights, falling apart from the white knights they are today. They were more like black ops, sent in to do terrible things because they needed doing and they were the only ones who could.
>They were absolutely not good people. They did terrible things and killed millions of innocent, to save the majority. Truly grey morality where killing innocents today, saves more tomorrow.

i.e. one of the biggest points Mat tried to make with them in 5th edition, and one of the things people reacted most negatively towards when he did so.

>>50225521
>>50225316
Mat kinda wavered on the "White v. Grey" Knights thing. Yes, he documented their atrocities(Bloodtide!) and made it much clearer that they followed the "purge everyone who was on the same continent as a daemon" mentality, but he also created unambigously heroic characters like Castellan Crowe, Kaldor Draigo, and Anval Thrawn-all of whom embodied the romanticism of a hopeless fight against impossible odds.

>>50224284
Yes

>>50225639
Seems like he was trying to strike a balance and instead gave us a tiltawhirl

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>>50225639
They Grey Knights as a whole were and are still presented as shining heroes - as they were before - but judging from his own comments on the subject, we're evidently not supposed to take that at face value; at least not entirely.

It's like how on a wider level, Space Marines and Imperial Guard and such are constantly made out to be valiant defenders of humanity, noble souls fighting the good fight, despite all their efforts propping up "the cruellest and most bloody regime imaginable" (putting aside that this description has never really been true even within 40k alone).

I love beating Grey Knight armies with my Black Templars.

>>50225502
people forget andy's c'tan nonsense, and people on /tg/ are usually so blinded by 1d4chan memes they can't think about Ward without their manchurian candidate programming kicking in

>>50226103
Muh nigga.


Make those insecure manlets cry that their big powaful armeh of super muhreens got crushed.

>>50226275
My crusaders charge into melee with their melee focused knights (forget the name) and they think they've got me so outmatched. Then those glorious crusaders wipe the smile off real quick

I know it goes against the grim darkness that the setting defines itself ass but having a guy chilling in the warp slaying 24/7 that daemons almost have to give a tiny fuck about is kinda cool

>>50226119
There was nothing wrong with C'tan except that they were special characters only.

>>50226400
>There was nothing wrong with C'tan except all of their implementation and every representation of them in the fluff
the models were quite good, but that's about it

>>50224284

Whoa, whoa, whoa, OP isn't the one on trial here.

OP got cucked by a Grey Knight when he was after a sister of battle.

>>50226359
> but having a guy chilling in the warp slaying 24/7 that daemons
This was cool. Having him rek Mort wasn't. Poor guy doesnt get mentioned often, he didnt deserve that.

I like their helmets tho

>>50225228
They're basically psykers who were transformed into semi-Primarchs. The Primarchs were born with Empy's genetic tampering, the GK's were modified with it.

>>50224239
Aw what's the matter, is your favorite chapter not the best? Suck it, faggot.

>>50225450
>also I don't belive in the lesser evil, evil is evil
Sweet child, I hope you can hold on to that belief forever.
100% not sarcasm

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>>50224239
fuck it, I'll take the bait.

So given that your entire argument is "I dislike them because they are the bestest" I'm assuming you are just parroting what other people told you/ you never got past the first few episodes of text to speech device.

Nothing says that the grey knights are considered objectively better than the other chapters, it's just that they are better at killing daemons and resisting corruption. It's like how the white scars are the best at riding bikes or the raven guard at stealth.

>>50226880
you do realize that when you say inflammatory things online people will react in kind?

>>50228204
This

I fucking hate that show. The humour is literally grade 6 shit for kids who have never watched anything more thought provoking than naruto.

And then the newfags enter into the mythos of warhammer, looking for a shortcut through all of the wiki readings and actually good books just so they can spout the memes quicker.

1d4chan is partly at fault. But it is a great wiki with very creative entries. You shouldn't blame them for the newfags that parrot their words and pass it off as absolute fact.

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>>50227434

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>>50225316
Just skimmed my DH codex, and I gotta say you and I had different interpretations of the fluff.
The Grey Knights are explicitly stated to be secretive, and to *sometimes* engage in the slaughter of innocents, but it's definitely not SOP. There was none of the "no witnesses" nonsense that popped up from time to time post-Ward. T
he specific example given is that *sometimes* the Ordo Malleus will start exterminating communities some distance from the site of an incursion, and that more pure-hearted Space Marines might take issue with that while the Grey Knights would grimly do their duty.
They're heroic, but tarnished by the fact that they serve the Inquisition without question (unless the Inquisitor is clearly a radical, then they whack him).

I remember in particular a reference in a later White Dwarf to the intended difference between the Witch Hunters and the Demon Hunter, and that the DH was supposed to feel grimly heroic and portray the sort of characters who would generally show up to protect the innocent, while the Witch Hunters were supposed to be a bunch of scary creeps who were pretty much always bad news to be around.
You're spot on about how they weren't running around soloing Demon Princes, and I liked that way better. The rules nicely matched the fluff in that often, a fight between a Grey Knight character and a powerful demon would end in both of them dead.

>>50228204
>you never got past the first few episodes of text to speech device

Watching that show isn't something to be proud of.

>>50224239
Not that I read Grey Knight lore a lot, but everytime I look in on them, it does seem they are better at everyone else at everything, and it is pretty annoying. I mean, at this rate, why even have other factions? Or at least, that's what it makes me feel like. They take what other factions specialize in, and do it better SOMEHOW. It's just like how the ultramarines used to be. It makes the lore less interesting.

Personally, I'd be fine if the Grey Knights and Space Wolves fell off the face of existence.

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>>50228401
Sure the humor is stupid and its shit, but its MY shit and I fuckin' love it. Hate me if you will, but I have already lost.

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>>50228484
I didn't say it was, but they diversify their jokes by the second season to things other than memes that were getting stale in 5th edtion
>>50228495
See pic related

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>>50224239
>They're such a Mary Sue power wank self-insert power fantasy in a power wanking setting.
>They are the best of the best for no fucking reason
That's a nice Chaper Master you got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to him...

>>50224937
Found Magnus

>>50224239
Nigga they still space marines and still die like the scrubs they are as any Space marine does.

What has you so upset about them?

>>50226103
I love beating them with my Imperial Guard. A squadron of tanks can really put a hole in their Paladin Purest Purity Purifier Squads.

>>50224239
Dude, tell 2008 I said hi! Man, I mis that year. Some of that was a good year

>8 foot tall plot armoured man-beasts who spit acid and blah blah blah are not Mary Sue bullshit, but they are if they're psychic and carry stabby sticks

bravo OP. Do you hate Death Watch too?

GK were kind of bullshit in 5th ed but the current Codex is fine. They're balanced on the table, the models look great, and their Codex removed most of the over the top shit. They even lose a few times in their own Codex now.

OP is probably a butthurt SoB play and I can't blame anyone for that but you might actually get models now so get over it already, the darkness has passed

>>50225502
I want a fucking Custodes Codex to come out filled with stories of the grey knights just getting in the way of their cooler older brothers or getting BTFO.

>>50226597
That's your opinion or did some spoonfeed you it?

>>50229801
>They're balanced on the table
More like they suck complete ass, it should be called Codex Dreadknights,

>the models look great
None of the new plastic models look great.

>and their Codex removed most of the over the top shit
And made them bland as hell.

>>50228538
I'll admit its juvenile, but I like it, the series itself is not to blame for ignorance, its those using a PARODY as their only source, anyone with real interest would take what they see and to durther research

Warden of the Blade anyone?

>>50229908
This please

It makes ne proud that so many people took the bait.

Still, it didn't cap in 12 hours. Gotta try harder next time.

Say, how quickly do mods lock down female spess muhreen threads these days? Been awhile since I shitposted here, and I'm thinking about testing the waters.

>>50229801
>They're balanced on the table
They are pretty middle of the pack so I'll say they have good EXTERNAL balance, but their INTERNAL balance is terrible.

Compare Strikes to Terminators
Purgations to Nemesis Dreadknights

>>50225502
>Emps engineered a super-special new gene-seed just for them so that they're even closer to him than other mehreens.

Wait, what? Seriously?

The Grey Knights were retroactively redeemed, to me, by Draigo responding to Azrael being an obstructive jerk by taunting him with the GK's knowledge of the Fallen and then pimp-walking away.

>>50226012
Ward tended to write very "puff piece"-y Codexes no matter who he was writing for. Pretty much all his Codexes centered around writing from the perspective of the relevant faction, bigging them up and acting like they're The Best Of The Best.
People just took this to mean "aduhh he loves to jerk off the ultramarines and the grey knights" because people are idiots.

>>50233695
>Emps literally watched half of his super soldiers fall to Chaos, his direct enemy.
>Why wouldn't he sit back and try a Marine 2.0 that is effectively the same as 1.0, but with additional Corruption Resistance

Has it been mentioned if the GK Geneseed can ONLY be accepted by Psykers? Or can a theoretical non-Psyker become a SM using the GK geneseed?

So. Anyone else think that the 5th edition Grey Knights might have got their pointscosts reduced in post-production to sell more minis? Because Ward tended to write more balanced rules than that, and it's exactly the sort of thing I could see the Kirby regime doing.

>>50228204
>Nothing says that the grey knights are considered objectively better than the other chapters

Stop right there, fucking everything says this.

Whenever other marines meet Grey Knights, the grey knights are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a Grey Knight ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this Blood Angel is better than me at something" but you better believe that every space marine to lay eyes on a grey knight is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this grey knight is here".

Hell, the latest beast arises book has all sorts of Grey Knight wank, apparently they're better than Custodes now too, and also are the final hope for mankind and the Emperor's final and truest dream.

>>50225502
>purest heart
>slaughtering you own allies for a slight buff

>>50234052

>implying you can't pure-heartedly slaughter them

>>50229522
>That's a nice Chaper Master you got there. Would be a shame if something were to happen to him...
All that'd mean is that Ragnar Blackmane would become the youngest Chapter Master of the Space Wolves ever, too, along with the youngest Wolf Lord ever.

>>50224347
Magnus, get off the computer and keep making convoluted schemes!
Tzeentch demands it!

>>50234083
Not that anon, but does Ragnar have any chances to become the youngest Great Wolf of the sons of Russ?

This seems very unlikely.

>>50234108
Dude stabbed a Daemon Primarch in the eye when he was a Blood Claw, and *that wasn't even the event that got him promoted*. I'd say that there's every chance that he'll become the Chapter Master once Logan Grimnar dies.

Which will probably happen when the 40k version of the End Times starts.

>>50234174
>40k version of the End Times starts

Dear God NO.

Changing the universe, but not too drastically?

I can agree to this.

Pulling off another END TIMES?

Yeah, it worked so well with Warhammer Fantasy...

>>50233910
Whenever other marines meet Imperial Guardsmen, the guardsmen are

a) presented as less important
b) presented as less powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a guardsman ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this Blood Angel is worse than me at something" but you better believe that every space marine to lay eyes on a guardsman is going to think "gee, I sure am disappointed this guardsman is here".

>>50234240
They'll probably have the ongoing plot threads all start winding towards a big climactic fight as the loyalist Primarchs start returning.

Maybe starting with Ghazhkull going full Beast once he starts fighting the Tyrannids and the resulting roar in the Warp wakes Gork and Mork back up again.

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>>50224239

>>50234642
I really want to see his FINAL WAAAGH!!!, but I don't want GW to screw over 40K.

I'm still not over the whole End Times and AoS thing.

>>50234849
I need to re-listen Tunak.

>>50234264
>>50233910
Now do you two understand why I hate both space muhrens and Grey Knights?

Once they show up, literally every other faction is void and moot. It ruins any sense of balance in the lore, and gets really boring really fast.

>>50233767
Either that, or he actually was wanking to the Grey Knights and Ultramarines

>>50225316
>Killing Angron took an entire Company with him

Killing Angron and 12 bloodthirster.

Are any Grey Knights books worth reading?

>>50236257
Well the whole Grey Knights Omnibus.

It's some crazy heresy that to this day, Justicar Alaric didn't get along with Ciaphas Cain his own model and rules.

He's truly badass in this series. And by badass I mean that he uses a combination of brains and brawn (more of the former).

>>50225024
>entire chapter of psykers
>take more losses than codex chapters
>somehow still exist despite incredible rarity of candidates

I want to say that you're a fucking moron for thinking that but with the current state of canon you may actually be right.

>>50236646
>>somehow still exist despite incredible rarity of candidates

Psykers are not rare.
The Grey Knights poach the best from the black ships.

>>50235682
Whenever Planetary Defence Forces meet the Imperial Guard, the guardsmen are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has an Imperial Guardsman ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this PDF trooper is better than me at something" but you better believe that every PDF to lay eyes on a guardsman is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this guardsman is here".

>>50236987
They're really not though. The Imperial Gaurd act superior by dint of being veterans, but they don't take it to the degree of Space Marines and Imperial Guardsmen. The same goes for PDF.

Ok so in 40k, awesome armies are often balanced by the fact that they are shown to die horribly and lose in embarrassing ways. Catachan get out operator'd by the Tau, Krieg lose every published fight they get into and well, you know what happens to most other space marines.

Are there any instances where Grey knights actually get blown up or run into other factions that play their game better than them?

I only very casually got into 40k a couple years back with my friend. I chose GK and he chose Space Wolves because those are the armies we thought were cool. I've since moved away and sold my stuff and never really played seriously with more people than a couple guys at our LGS.

What makes GK so strong?

What makes Space Wolves so good?

am not jerking, I just don't know much about 40k

>>50237729
>Are there any instances where Grey knights actually get blown up

Mordrak had his entire Brotherhood blown up by Huron by accident.

>>50237743
>What makes GK so strong?

They're all psykers without the downsides that psykers usually have,

>What makes Space Wolves so good?

I think they're shit personally.

>>50238355
what makes the wolves "great" in universe?

>>50238410
Nothing really.
They're just a famous Marine chapter like all other famous Marine chapters.
Sometimes they turn into werewolves, but nobody really knows about that.

>>50224239
T. Abaddon.

>>50224347

Fuck yuo Magnus the Neckbeard

>>50236987
Is this a new meme?

>>50234088
>>50238483
>being called Magnus
Truly, the highest of honors.

Wheneva them weedy Grotz meet some proppa Ork ladz, the Boyz are:

a) More brutal
b) More cunnin'

This happens all of the bleedin' time 'cuz ORKS IS BEST. Not once has any git worth his choppa ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this stunty zoggin' weakling is better than me at summat" but you better believe that every one of them bleedin' Grots that sees one of the Boyz is gonna think "zog, I sure am glad the Boss is here. I hopes he don't sit on me later."

>>50239899
Whenever 40k players meet the GW rules writers, the GW employees are

a) presented as more important
b) presented as more powerful

This is without exception and made clear in the narration of such events. Not once has a 40k player ever gone, "oh wait, I guess this GW rules writer is better than me at something" but you better believe that every player to lay eyes on a rules writers is going to think "gee, I sure am glad this hack is here."

>>50238410
They are, along the Salamaders, one of the few Astartes who give a damn to the civilians of the Imperium, to the point they would attack allies forces for killing innocents without a really good reason. To the point that they normally go to planets that will be subjects of Exterminatus to kill the deamon or xeno that drove the Inquisition to take that course of action, part to save the civies, part to spite the =][=, and part because they want a good scrap.

>>50225502
Wait, so who's closer to the Big E, Custodus or GKs?

>>50240793

Should be Custodes IMO. First GKs were just dudes from other legions after all like Garro and Rubio.

>>50240793
Geographically, Custodes.
Grey Knight in all other senses.

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>>50224239
I live for these threads as a gk player.

>>50240824
>Custodes
+Emperor's genes

>Grey Knights
+Emperor's genes
+Psykers
+Emperor's teachings
+Like the Emperor create psychic locis from numerous other psykers.
+Created to be his latest and ultimate warriors, a parting gift to humanity who could do as others could not, essentially taking the place of the Emperor

>>50240824
>>50241150
>>50241298
God, I fucking hate GK.

>>50241298
So they just exist to steal the Custodes' thunder. That sounds really shit.

>>50241327
Grey Knights are as far above other space marines as space marines are above normal humans.

>>50241298
>>50241327
>come up with fanwank making GK mary sues
>complain that GK are mary sues

>>50241327
>>50241384
Don't be jealous, janitorfags.
I've heard there's some excrement for you to collect from the golden throne.
Get to it, the real warriors may require their psyk-out grenades!

>>50241384
They exist to be Deathwatch but they fight daemons instead of xenos you fucking moron.

>>50234240
GW isn't going to End Times 40k as long as it keeps selling constantly, but I'm pretty sure something cataclysmic is coming up soon. Maybe something that'll restore Chaos as a legitimate threat to the Imperium.

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>>50241327

Why Limit it to GK and not the whole rotten edifice that is Games workshop?
They did deliver all this gibberish and then charge money for it.

I miss when Grey Knights weren't invincible. When they were the best of the best humanity could muster locked in a desperate struggle against the worst of the warp, and only just barely succeeding to keep the foul daemons out of the materium for another day.

Then they become terrible john cena clones led by the biggest Mary Sue ever.

>>50241384
>So they just exist to steal the Custodes' thunder.

>Implying Custodes were even on the radar

>>50241432
That sounds just as terrible, the last thing 40k (or it's playebase) needs is more fucking Chaoswank.

How about making Necrons act just a tad less silly and start getting their shit together, or have a Tyranids start arriving for reals with new strains of nids never before seen, and forcing all of the factions to put more focus on them?

>Custodes think they're the favourite
>But the Grey Knights were the ones entrusted with the Terminus Decree

Poor Custodes, I'm glad the rest of the Imperium shelters them from the harsh universe.

>>50241498
Chaos is the big bad.
You can't really wank them when they are logically stronger than everyone else.
You'd need serious Tyranid and Necron wank.

>>50241498
Well, I'm all up for something big to shake up the scene if it causes the Adeptus Mechanicus to get its collective head out of its ass and start unlocking shit from those vaults of theirs. Tyranids advancing further and the Necrons going on a full-out offensive and establishing empires is just as fine, and honestly everything could happen at once, the Imperium has way too much territory and underutilizes practically all of it.

>>50241393
Which is retarded

>>50241455
>I miss when Grey Knights weren't invincible.

They're really not invincible, many of their stories end up with a sacrifice to stop the daemons.

>>50241455
They have never been invincible and aren't even remotely close to there. Read the fucking codexes, dude.

You are butthurt over... the one fucking human who has managed to take the battle to the Realm of Chaos and win, even though he can never win the war.

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Obligatory

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>tfw Custodes are not strong enough to keep Antwyr

It's okay, the Grey Knights will shoulder this burden for you.

>>50241663
As a Grey Knight player, I want to personally apologize to every SoB fan in existence. I know that's been retconned, but still. They've been shit on enough for the last 20 years. They don't deserve any shit like that.

>>50241455
I'm pretty sure you've never read any of their actual fluff and are just talking out of your ass.

Sure they really go overboard on the whole "PURE!" thing, but invincible? The Grey Knights get the shit beaten out of them all the time. While some of their independent character's feats are ridiculous, in general they tend to incur extremely heavy losses. They are extremely spread out, have low numbers, and more often than not die in an effort just to banish the Daemon they are fighting and hope their brothers a few hundred years later can do the same.

>>50241498
>How about making Necrons act just a tad less silly and start getting their shit together

Aside from Trazyn, I don't really see how this is the case. Frankly we just don't really have much fluff about the Necron since the Newcron change. So there hasn't really been much opportunities for their shit to get together really. Not to mention the fact that there is no grand unity between the Necron factions was the whole premise for the change to begin with. I'd like to see them bee a more legitimate threat, but I'd also just like to see more of them in general. I could see something like a Warzone Mars happening involving them in the future if GW wanted a massive event involving them.

And Chaos really does need the attention it is getting now. Chaos has been a joke for quite some time, and having the Chaos Legions come back in force. They are the Archenemy, and the main threat to every other force in the setting. So it's only right that their threat level gets beefed up.

>>50234083
>All that'd mean is that Ragnar Blackmane would become the youngest Chapter Master of the Space Wolves ever
I don't know if serious? Or do SW's not know their own fluff?

Logan Grimnar killed a Grey Knights chapter master. Thats pretty much the counter to GK being mary sues, because the SW are.

>>50241741
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the Sister's actually save Kaldor in the retconned version of that incident?

>>50241821
Yep, in the 7th Edition.

>>50241821
>>50241866
No.
If you can even call it a retcon, the only thing that was changed was it was a shortened version that didn't even mention the Sisters.

>>50241866
Noice.

How'd it go down? Tl;dr?

>>50241528
>Tyranids
>World eaters that have been PAC-MANing galaxies for eons

>Necrons
>A faction so competent, that GWs had to retcon them into having Robot Alzhiemers to keep them from BTFO-ing the galaxy (including Chaos)

>these factions require more wanking to make relevent, then Chaos
>A faction that is so dysfunctional, that they can't keep their followers from killing each other for more than five minutes, let alone focus on Galactic Domination.
>A faction that has lead 13 Crusades on what is but a handful of the Countless Imperial worlds, and comes away with token "victories" to show for it.
>A faction that has to rely on Corruption that, instead of just making deals or playing on inner malice, has to psychologically warp people's minds into thinking Chaos is for cool kids because The Chaos Gods are such a bunch of One-Dimensional, Dysfunctional, Morons, that only Slannesh's promises of sex and Cocaine could convince anyone who's not fucking retarded into joining them.
>A faction that Everyone, even the DEldar, who are one of the most irrelevant factions (unless you count the for some reason never mentioned Tau auxiliaries), has completely and utterly kicked the ass of at some point or another.
>A faction that, were it not for UNLIMITED POWAH provided by the emotions of the Galaxy's denizens, would have been reduced to the DEldar's state years ago

Every Effort GW makes to keep Chaos relevant is fucking Chaos wank. Chaos does not deserve the position of big bad that they have kept a grip on for so long.

>>50241886
>Bloodtide return.
>GK arrives.
>Chaos boyz everywere.
>Plaguemarines want to gift Papa Nurgle's to Draigo.
>Draigo is zogged...or is he?
>Sisters of battle arrive.
>They burn the plaguebearers and save the Grey Knights' butts.
>CHARGE!
>Sisters died anyway, but died for the Emprah this time.
>THIS IS THE JUGDMENT OF THE RIGHTEOUS, SCUM!
>Chaos boyz got krumped.

>>50241976
>>Tyranids
>>World eaters that have been PAC-MANing galaxies for eons
>>Necrons
>>A faction so competent, that GWs had to retcon them into having Robot Alzhiemers to keep them from BTFO-ing the galaxy (including Chaos)


>Chaos
>UNLIMITED POWAH


This is why Chaos is stronger.
They can assault you from outside of time and space and are masters of a dimension of unlimited psychic bullshit.


They are the logical big bad.

>>50241996
What's your source?

>>50241976
Key, biased much. You can do that with every faction btw.

Like how Tyrannies never job either right? Just ask the Tau or Maugan Ra. And Necrons lost to 1 company of Ultramarines lol.

>>50242004
The worst part is that I know you're right. No matter how much of shit Faction they are that has to rely on not being able to truly lose or pay for their incompetence, Chaos Is and always will be the Bid Bad of Warhammer.

>108.M36 A Brotherhood Out of Time
>Nearly two thousand years after their disappearance, word reaches Titan of the lost Brother-Captain Edeon and his brothers. Unbeknownst to the Chapter, Edeon had followed the Daemonafex and its thralls into an area of Warp that owed its existence to the echoes of forgotten moments. Edeon and his Grey Knights fought at the foot of the Daemon’s Fortress of Deceit, each day falling to grievous wounds only to rise again, borne up by their unwavering resolve and psychic fury. Faced with their combined might, the Daemonafex was finally cast down, though it was to cost Edeon and his brothers their lives in the material realm. On their return to realspace, their bodies begin to atrophy at an alarming rate. Before he dies, the Brother-Captain only has time to send a coded signal to Titan, telling of the brotherhood’s victory.

Other factions wish they were half as heroic as the Grey Knights.

>>50242021
I'm looking back and I think I mixed up two plots in the GK Codex of the 7th edition.

>Bloodtide happens just like Ward said minus the Sororitas' hat.

>Decimalus, where they save Draigo's arse of the farts of Nurgle. They got killed by the chaos crazies this time.

>>50224239

They should have been kept as a one squad option for armies of the Imperium.

>>50242076
>And Necrons lost to 1 company of Ultramarines lol.
Not that anon, but what are you referring to?

In terms of the Ultramarines the Damnos incident is the only one that comes to mind, and that was a crushing defeat. With the Second Company only have like 40 marines left afterwards.

They only beat the Necrons a century later, and that was with 5 full companies and some additional support from a few others (along with the Deathwatch) if I recall correctly. I hardly see that as a joke defeat for them.

>>50242192
>and that was with 5 full companies
Didn't the 7th edition codex state that it was Cato and the second that retook Damnos?

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>>50239899
I'm enjoying this meme, but there have canonically been Grots who are more intelligent than Orks. In fact, Grots are generally portrayed as more sensible and clever than Orks, but so weak and cowardly that they can never use it to their advantage for long.
Remember, there was a long-term Grot Rebellion on Angellus.

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>>50242140
>Other factions wish they were half as heroic as the Grey Knights.

>>50242328
>The Imperial war engine slowly began to gather speed. The 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th and 6th Companies of the Ultramarines were mustered from war zones within Ultima Segmentum – over 500 Space Marines – to be led into battle by Calgar himself. All extant information on Damnos was dissected in painstaking detail, and the training cages rang night and day with the sound of steel on steel. It was said that Cato Sicarius trained so hard he even slept in the cage-vault, and that he fought with the fury of a man possessed

Had to double check where my info came from, but this was from the Warzone: Damnos book.

>>50242160
This

>>50242422
Didn't that come out before the 7th edition codex?

>>50242500
Yeah, it is from Sixth Edition I think, but honestly such a contradiction is a bit odd. Sure the 7th Edition came later, but this was a whole Warzone book centered around that event, so I doubt they would retcon it that easily.

I'm pretty sure the Codex's line was simplifying it, and leaving out the other company's inclusion. To make it seem more impressive from a independent character standpoint, rather than retconning it.

>>50242403
>>50241886
>>50241821
>The one lonely SoB fan in the thread
Man, I feel such pity and empathy for you guys. Don't worry, your day is coming.

>>50242366
>I iz more cunnin’ than a grot an’ more killy than a dread, da boyz dat follow me can’t be beat.
Ghazghull Mag Uruk Thraka.

Even da profit of da WAAAGH knows that a ballsy grot is a dangerous grot. Or at least more orky that a Eldar.

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>Wanting to get back into to get back and 40k
> was thinking of playing grey Knights because I like the visual aesthetic and wanted to have a legitimate army but didn't want to have to transport and paint a large number of minis.

Will people take one look and immediately think I'm just some Power gaming min maxer?

>>50243738

GK are barely considered powerful these days.

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>>50241741

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>>50226359
There's still plenty of grimdark as it illustrates the futility of the Grey Knights' mission. Draigo kills daemons, they come back. Draigo smashes up the Chaos Realm's imaginary buildings and landscapes, they come back. Draigo gets pooped out into realspace and helps banish the daemons he came with, only to be sucked into the warp again alongside them so he can continue fighting his unwinnable one-man war and adding to a neverending list of fantastical deeds that are always automatically undone.

Even the given best end for him isn't that he's going to sneak into the Chaos Gods' rooms and shank them in their sleep or anything of the sort, it's simply that one day he'll return.

Funny how the current codex completely omits any specifics of his warp-bound shenanigans but also doesn't bring up the pointlessness of it all. "Draigo got sucked into the warp where no god or daemon can defeat him, sometimes he comes out then goes back in, one day he'll be back for good, the end."

>>50228483
>There was none of the "no witnesses" nonsense that popped up from time to time post-Ward.
It's about as old as the Grey Knights themselves.

That part of the WH designers' notes sticks out in my memory too though. Very amusing in light of the direction the Grey Knights' image took, even if it wasn't a complete reversal. Still, that darker side to them has always been there - some iterations have just emphasised it more than others.

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>>50235704
And Blood Angels.
>To his fellow Chapter Masters, Dante is an exemplar of the fearlessness, dedication and strategic genius that speak to the heart of the Space Marines' never-ending mission. To the hard-pressed generals and marshals of the Imperial Guard he is a thrice-welcomed and honoured ally in the forefront of Mankind's defence. To the common soldiers and citizens of the Imperium, Dante is nothing less than a saviour, a golden god who descends from the heavens on wings of fire.

And Necrons.
>For the Necrons, defeats are minor inconveniences - the preludes to future triumphs, nothing more. Immortality has brought patience; the perils that the Necrons survived in ancient times carry the lesson that their race can overcome any opposition, if they have but the will to try. And if the Necrons possess only a single trait, it is a will as unbending as adamantium.

Because this is just how 40k fluff works.
>Tyranid codex in the same edition said that stopping them would require every other race to unite
>Dark Eldar are the apex predator of the galaxy, even Tyranids are nothing more than interesting tools and curiosities to them
>Tau will reforge the stars themselves and bring enlightenment to all
>Chaos

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>>50224239
I miss 3rd ed GKs

>>50241432
Chaos is back as a more terrible threat thanks to Chaos Primarchs coming back and Failbaddon becoming Abaddon after regaining his credentials in the Black Legion supplement.

>>50247588
You know what?

I really wouldn't have had any problems with today's GK if they didn't make them like they are in 7th ED. 5th ED was a time of RAGE in case of Space Marines in general...most of the time.

Still I miss 3rd ED GK. Especially infuriating is that they'll never give Stern that promotion to Grand Master.

Then again it's because of a Lord of Change that is gunning for Stern.

>>50224284
/thread

>>50236510
Cain has a model though.

>>50225228
The Custodes have that to.

>>50248858
You're 153 posts late.

>>50243738
No. They were hated once upon a time, but now it's just remembered as "that brief period when GK had really stupid fluff and really OP crunch, and everyone hated Matt Ward".

>>50249014
Wait.

He has?

>>50249398
http://solegends.com/citle2000/blacklibrary/blciaphus/index.htm

>>50251718
BY THE EMPEROR...

>>50251718
>Bolt Pistol

>>50224239
Why or how could you hate the grey knights currently. They are basically the most forgotten about marine chapter in terms of updates and one of the most forgotten armies next to sisters. They need stuff desperately. They have 1 formation for fucks sake, and they haven't gotten a single book, unit, formation, detachment, since their codex. They are on the verge of being a trash army and are the least flexible army in terms of composition in the game.

>>50256887
They'll probably get something in Warzone Fenris: Magnus Boogaloo Edition.