Pathfinder General /pfg/

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>>50205302

I kinda want to play a hunter who uses a Polearm that rides a Stag animal companion, What gestalts well to let me do that?

Must be elf, and must be Shalelu's younger sibling.

Pic Semi related. Doesn't have to be a drow. Or a lesbian

>That feel when you want to run a game but you know it's going to die

>>50205385
do it anyways

I'm currently in process of writing Savant, an initiator class with heavy focus on a single discipline. I currently have the abilities for Black Seraph, Cursed Razor and Sleeping Goddess done, and I'd like to see what people think before I write the rest.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1raGvq7PhzuKn5zuTwKLafzOkJTEWbdUjmEFXkV6vpwY/edit#

Are there any interesting 3rd party races that aren't overly tied to psionics

>>50205469

>interesting
>3rd party
>races

>>50205479
i'll take that as a no

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>>50205330

Try a hunter|medic, a hunter|mystic, a hunter|stalker, or a hunter|warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel) with archetypes of your choice. This gives you an animal companion, spellcasting, and initiating all in one package. You could also use the ranger with the ambush hunter archetype instead of the hunter, for more raw combat power.

Instead of being a regular elf, it would be more ideal to choose an elf-blooded race, such as oni/qlippoth-spawn tiefling elf (Str/Wis), asura/zurami-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Wis), garuda-blooded aasimar elf (Str/Wis), generic skinwalker elf (Str/Wis or Dex/Wis), aellar (Dex/Wis), half-sahuagin elf (Dex/Wis), merg (Dex/Wis), spring child (Dex/Wis), woodborn (Dex/Wis), or wulfkin (Str/Wis). Blame it on a resurgent bloodline.

Alternatively, if you are dead-set on being a pure elf, you could look into the "Erda elf racial archetype" from Worlds of Power, which swaps out +2 Intelligence for +2 Wisdom.

You could also consider a warlord (hussar) gestalted with a Vancian bard, a Vancian sorcerer with the psychic bloodline to avoid ASF, or a Charisma-based spherecasting dip-multiclass of your choice. Good elf-blooded races here include demon/cerebrilith/namuci-spawn tiefling elf (Str/Cha), div/rakshasa/yatudhana-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Cha), angel-blooded aasimar elf (Str/Cha), azata-blooded aasimar elf (Dex/Cha), half-bugbear elf (Dex/Cha), houri (Dex/Cha), lurker elf (Str/Cha), ornibus elf (Str/Cha), and piper elf (Dex/Cha).

A warder (hussar) gestalted with an Intelligence-based Vancian caster with some method of avoiding ASF, a psion, or an Intelligence-based spherecasting dip-multiclass is also an option. Plain old elf would work for this. You could also be a generic/daemon-spawn/sonillion-spawn tiefling elf (Dex/Int) or a decataur (Str/Int).

What CR bonus should I give vs gestalt?

Who is the best skill monkey? I'm thinking Questioner Investigators, but perhaps some kind of Unchained Rogue?

How do I build the skillest of monkeys at level 3?

>>50205523
You mean what's CR the PCs should be or CR the encounters should be?

It depends on the level of optimization. Characters can fine CR+5 encounters regularly when optimized. For gestalt at high optimization? After level 3 or so make CR+5 the norm. CR+7 is bosses and big fights.

>>50205515

I think i'll give vanilla elf a try, i dont think i've ever played a bog standard elf before. I will be Taking fleet-footed.

Hunter|Warder looks pretty interesting.

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>>50205567

Try an investigator (empiricist) with the Student of Philosophy trait; or a hedgewitch (font of inspiration/spiritualism), investigator (questioner), or stalker (vigilante) with the Orator feat.

All of these builds have Intelligence-based class features, 6 base skill points, a generous class skill list, inspiration with free uses on certain skills, and Intelligence-based social skills.

>>50205593

A hunter|warder will encounter some MAD issues unless your warder side is archetyped into ordained defender. (As usual, the zweihander sentinel archetype will be of great help as well.)

If you insist on being a pure elf, you would do well to take up the "Erda elf racial archetype" from Worlds of Power as well, swapping out your +2 Intelligence for +2 Wisdom. The 40-foot land speed will be wasted due to your mount, but it cannot be helped.

Either way, it seems you will be a Dexterity-based hunter|warder. Look into Daisho Expertise or Polearm Dancer to make the most of being a zweihander sentinel. An elven branched spear would work well for you.

>>50205618

Would spear dancing style be worth looking into?

>katana

>1d8, 18-20/x2, can be used martial with two hands, ewp to use with one

>Nodachi

>1d10, 18-20/x2, martial, 2h, comes with brace

Wait why would you ever use a Katana if you weren't trying to use a sword with only 1 hand.

>>50205658

You wouldn't, also weapon tables in Pathfinder are shit

>>50205668
i know

Is there math out there that would ever make a Naginata worth it?

>>50205302
>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?
I don't do any prepwork apart from thinking where the story might go, and then usually only 30 minutes before the session starts unless I have some idea through the week or there was something ongoing.

I eyeball all the stats off my NPCs from player characters, so the toughest NPCs tend to have the AC of the toughest player character, the CMD of the maneuverable character, and the wizard in the back has half random spells and half spells that will fuck the group up.

The monsters are literally CR equivalents out of the book, with the descriptions and abilities torn off and other abilities stapled on from other CR equivalent monsters and shaped like homebrew creations.

The players still love my NPCs that I make in less than 30 seconds of thoughts because I make them gimmicky and memorable, and my combats because they're always pretty close fought things with lots of cinematic stuff happening.

>>50205674

Naginata is ok. 1d8 x4 crit is par the course. Slashing damage makes it better than hooked lance or scythe. Reach is what makes it really shine. Its only real competition in martial weapons is Lucerne Hammer.

>>50205689
but i presume a fauchard outshines it?

I really wish I could play a game with /pfg/. My friends would judge me too hard for any of the shit I want to play.

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I want to create a character that's like Illaoi from League of Legends (pic related). She's the priestess of a chaotic deity, snd she uses the orb in her hand both as a focus and a weapon, going all in in the fight. She also spawns tentacles that hurt her enemies and attack their souls.
Still, I'm not sure which class should be the best for her. Any thoughts?

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>>50205645

No, because Two-Weapon Fighting, Weapon Focus, Spear Dancing Style itself, and a swift action at the start of each combat to activate the style are far too heavy an opportunity cost for you.

Remember to take the Conversion inquisition as an ordained defender, so that you can safely dump Charisma to the ground.

Assuming you take the "Erda elf racial archetype" and can work with 25 point buy, I would suggest Strength 8, Dexterity 18+2, Constitution 12-2, Intelligence 12, Wisdom 16+2, Charisma 7. Compared to other warders, you will be relying on sheer AC to avoid physical attacks.

You could also try Strength 7, Dexterity 16+2, Constitution 16, Intelligence 13, Wisdom 16+2, Charisma 7, but 2 more Constitution modifier will not lead to *that* much more durability compared to a higher Dexterity. Your attack rolls, damage rolls, AC, Reflex, and initiative will drop compared to Dexterity 18+2, and you will have the same CMD anyway.

Either way, you will want to place all of your favored class bonuses into hit points. Wear a mithral chain shirt and Muleback Cords.

>>50204733

Yeah, I didn't want to go with the expected "and then he got special training that helped him control it."

Instead his master just decided he was a fucking weirdo and told him to get the fuck away from the clan.

Is there any way to get an effect similar to Hamatula Strike at level 5?

I realized just now I really want to play Roadhog in my next campaign but it'll take ten years to hit 7.

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>>50202583
>>50202724
>>50202809
Why isn't /pfg/ running a Skybourne game with a crew of nothing but courtesans?

>>50205887
Because even though we talk about lewds, we want fightan too

>>50205895
Entertainer Training is just one perk for the crew.

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>>50205895
>not being a crew of murder prostitutes

I thought pathfinder players were supposed to be into anime shit

>>50205207

The evolved companion allows 1 point evolutions, venom is 2. It would be DM fiat I guess.
What druid spell gives the animal companion a venomous bite attack? I was planning to be a serpent shaman, hunter, inquisitor or a zealot vigilante.

Other than that, I know the primal companion hunter can grant evolutions, but it was a backup option.

>>50205926
I don´t know about anime, that makes me think of the legendary geisha from Shogun TW. That, or Planet Terror.

>>50205765

Hmm, at what level do you want to do this? I can see her as a strength-based warpriest (if you can put black tentacles on her list, if not magus) or a summoner. You could be a summoner and claim that your eidolon (tentacled horrors, in her case) is an avatar of your deity. The god callers of that region on Golarion where the Worldwound now is were confirmed to essentially be summoners.

Also, check the horror materials for the Cthulhu mythos deities if you want to make her a warpriest.I don´t see her casting enough to be a full cleric.

>>50205926
Who sneezed?

>>50206000
What?

>>50206000
Since you got trips I just looked up the original just for you
There's no one else in it

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>>50206017
That's quick work anon.

On a related note. Is it possible to play a character like Kindred, who's in a sense, split into two halves?

>>50205385
One shots are better than no shots

>>50206037
Summoner

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Oh, question to any DMs. Do you just ignore the minmaxing induced pattern, or is there an in setting reason why every single spell caster in existence just so happens to wear a haramaki? Or does "everybody has the same armor" just not seem very important?

>>50206080
That has literally not been a thing in any game I've run or been otherwise involved it.

>>50206080
>Mage armor is a level 1 spell
>Bracers of armor
>Permanency exists at later levels
Stop shilling

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>>50206037
Maybe take a page out of super stand sunday's book and refluff summoner or witch/wizard familiars, then just fill in the rest with some RP.

Maybe even convince your DM to let you use the figment familiar archetype as a witch, that way they can't kill the familiar since it's part of you. The familiar is the half that knows the magic, the witch is the half that knows the physical skills.

>>50205978
At least level 6. Warpriest seemes a great idea; I've looked for a fighting Oracle, but the only mystery that gives Black Tentacles is the Dark Tapestry one, that's more spellcasting oriented.

>>50206080
If no one uses it (and I've never seen anyone use it) then ignore it and it's not a problem.

If one of your casters uses it, just make a point to have it on every spellcaster NPC the players encounter. The witch in that bandit clan that's terrorizing the countryside wears it, the court wizard wears it, the level 1 wizard/bard jesters entertaining children with cantrips in the city wear it. And make sure NPCs are aware that anyone wearing it is a magician of some sort, and respond accordingly. If a player casts a spell without wearing it, have nearby NPCs act as if they just witnessed the impossible, like that casting a spell without wearing a haramaki has literally never occurred to anyone before.

>>50206080
its +1 ac who cares.

>>50206166
There are some tasty armor bonuses you can pick up that mage Armor just can't compete with.

>>50206179
bracer of armor exist too they also go past mage armor

whats your point

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>>50206080
>>50206179

At lower levels, wearing a haramaki is certainly a good idea, as Mage Armor's duration simply is not enough to be practical.

By the time Mage Armor's duration improves to an appreciable amount, a caster wants to *avoid* wearing a haramaki, because Shocking Grasp, Elemental Nimbus (Air), and the like will gain attack bonuses against the haramaki-wearer. Yes, the Mage Armor can be dispelled, but being able to fall back on a +1 armor bonus to AC is not worth the risk of being hit by a magus's high-powered Shocking Grasp or the like.

Enchanting a haramaki is not worth it in most cases, since it will cost a minimum of +4,150 gp, and the cost for the default +1 enhancement bonus to armor and the masterworking will both be wasted.

>>50206150

This, on the other hand, is hardly a concern because Pathfinder's definition of "haramaki" makes it out to be a metal-reinforced girdle or corset, which can be concealed.

>>50206323
How often do you even fight enemy magi or Initiators with E.Flux?

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I'm fairly new to Path of War. What are the best disciplines for a natural attacker?

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>>50206335

Certainly more often than enemy casters trying to dispel your Mage Armor specifically, as opposed to any other spell (or spells, with Greater Dispel Magic) of yours.

Even if you do encounter such, a +1 armor bonus from a haramaki is hardly going to be much solace.

>>50206350
Chimera Soul is the designated natural attack discipline

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>>50206350
>>50206421

Not Chimera Soul for the most part (Primal Fang is still a good 1st-level boost), ironically, since natural attackers thrive on bringing to bear all of their natural attacks as part of a full attack.

You want a discipline that can provide great damage boosts to all of your attacks and cause them to ignore damage reduction, and a second discipline that can enable easy full attacks.

Broken Blade can accomplish the first with Pugilist Stance and the "Knuckle" boosts, while Primal Fury grants pounce with Raging Hunter Pounce. Thrashing Dragon can enable moving and full attacking with Leaping Dragon as well, and there is always the Tactical Rush feat.

Remember that natural attacking initiators almost always want to be Dexterity-based, as Deadly Agility will give you Dexterity to damage with all of your natural attacks. As well, a one-level dip into medic (sanguinist) will give you your Wisdom modifier in extra damage on all of your natural attacks.

Unfortunately, Path of War optimization is currently in an awkward limbo since disciplines like Broken Blade and Primal Fury are on the metaphorical chopping block for downgrades (rightfully so given their damage potential). You should ask your GM how they will be handling such disciplines in their game.

Is a Privateer Desperado Warlord good or are firearms still just too shit to bother with?

Is reincarnation a thing on Golarion? I mean for people and beings other than Samasara.

>>50206606
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/r/reincarnate
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/hexes---3rd-party-publishers/hexes/grand-hexes/hex-grand-forced-reincarnation-su

not only is it a thing, but it's a thing someone in your party might be able to do

>>50205302
> What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I'm so poor at problem solving that my characters rarely have any agency - situations that can't be solved by "punch them" or "ask them to help" tend to leave me at a loss. I'm pretty prone to needing to rebuild when a build I was really excited about turned out to not be fun in practice... or break the game over its knee. And sometimes the same goes for fluff and I need to retcon.

Probably the worst part is that I'm prone to panickedly dropping out if shit goes tits up rather than problem solving.

>>50205469
Check out Bloodforge, skip past the bestiality and the rape. Everything left is sweet as hell.

Man that sounds hella fucking awkward when I put it like that. I WANT to like that book but hghghgh blinklings aellar half-gnolls.

>>50204185
>"haha that can't be right I'm sure you have to be adjacent to do a grapple!"
>check the grapple rules
>nothing about being adjacent
>nothing even about them being in your reach
Uh question what is stopping me from making a grapple attempt at a guy a hundred feet away from me

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>>50206556

While the gunsmoke mystic is on par with, if not better than, the regular mystic due to its touch attacks and its Wisdom to firearm damage, I am afraid the privateer is somewhat worse than the regular warlord.

Ranged attacks has far less maneuver support than melee attacks, so a ranged initiator needs impressive benefits to match up to melee (e.g. gunsmoke mystic class features, psychic armory class features). A regular warlord can vindicate themselves as an archer by Rapid Shot full attacking with Pinhole Gambit or Victory Gambit. A desperado warlord can do the same, but all that extra accuracy is wasted on a firearm's touch attacks, and a desperado already gives up much to use firearms in the first place.

Essentially, the gunsmoke mystic is a great archetype; the desperado is a bit of a downgrade.

The privateer can uplift the desperado, but it more or less requires you to play a bizarre character with Deadly Agility and Sea Combat who mostly uses firearms as melee weapons with touch attacks.

>>50206732
I'm fine with focusing on Sea Combat, I suppose. Fits the character I have in mind. Thanks, anon.

>>50206652
I should have clarified. I meant the more traditional, "after you die you are reborn into a a new being" sort of reincarnation.

Not "resurrection but with a drawback" reincarnation i.e the spell.

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>>50206758

You could also just play a gunsmoke mystic.

>>50206678
nothing

>>50206788
Too magic-y for the character concept.

>>50206803
But that's retarded how can I just grapple someone from another zip code

>>50206678
I think you're supposed to be able to physically contact them SOMEHOW.
Like, lasso them.
Or, in this case, throw your motherfucking meat hook at 'm.

>>50206782
Yes and no. Your soul ascends to the Outer Planes, where it does indeed become a new being.. a sort of laval Outsider, rather than anything from the Material.

>>50206848
you can't

don't rules lawyer, the RAI is clear

>>50206854
It doesn't say that, though. It just says you can attempt to grapple a creature.

>>50206859
>telling /pfg/ not to rules lawyer
>where_do_you_think_we_are.jpg

Anyone else here fucking despise Granted Maneuvers as a mechanic?
I hate it so much. I want to play Mystic but... Eugh.

>>50206865
yes, i know where i am

if someone tried to rules lawyer that i'd just kick them from the game.

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>>50206836

Does this mean you will be eschewing Elemental Flux, then? I would not recommend that; Elemental Flux is perhaps the single strongest and most flexible discipline for a ranged initiator, thanks to Elemental Nimbus and its ranged attack-compatible strikes and boosts.

What is your character's starting level?

Do you have access to "Emerging Guns," "Commonplace Guns," or "Guns Everywhere"?

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>>50205302
>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I zone out when combat starts. Hit the pizza, send a few texts, shit up jabber, I'll do basically anything but pay attention to the encounter and it gets on the nerves of some of my friends. This is a problem I only have when playing Pathfinder, where there are a million cool and flavorful character options and all of them are fucking terrible and you're going to run a cookie cutter build or die pretty soon anyway. Outside of combat I have a lot of fun, when it's all roleplay, investigation, problem solving, etc. so I usually end up playing the party face, which I'm fine with anyway.

>>50206890
The point isn't literally to use the mechanics; it's to point out flawed wording. The lack of a range might mean that you can grapple people at 100 feet, even if that's not intended, but we still don't KNOW the RAI. Is it reach? Adjacent?

>>50206976
>paizo
>flawed wording

well i never

>>50206900
I haven't fully fleshed it out but the basic concept is to use Stupendous Strength to wield both a double-barreled shotgun and a grappling hook, potentially going for a Prodigious TWF build if it's not shit. You can easily guess what I'm trying to do here, and so E.Flux and other such anime magic things don't fit.

It's level 5. Haven't put much more thought into it yet.
Should be able to get the shotgun for 1/4th the price if not less.
Not looking to be super optimized but it would be nice to not be shit.

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>>50207016
don't let your dreams be dreams anon

>>50207068
I'm trying, anon. And I'm gonna make it, too.

We're all gonna make it.

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>>50207016

This will be a mechanically awkward build in many respects. A grappling hook is an exotic weapon, costing you either a feat or a 1,500 gp ioun stone. It is also a ranged weapon, so you cannot use it as part of melee attack strikes, and you will have to use Dexterity for its attack rolls, unless you take the Powerful Throw feat. The grapple from a grappling hook also applies only on a critical hit, and dragging your target towards you is mechanically difficult even with such a weapon.

You are investing heavily in a weapon setup that is mechanically unsupported by initiators.

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>>50207016
This sounds very MAD but fucking awesome and I don't even play overwatch.

>>50207096
>We're all gonna make it.

Why not sue Fools Errand with an Ogre Hook

>Never even take a look at Mythic Adventures
>GM decides to use it
>Have to choose features in the moment, can't go home and read it
>Only explains the first part ones because we start in mythic level 2
>Pick Champion with fleet charge because goddamn pounce!!
>2 sessions later we reach mythic level 3
>Fleet Warrior ability
Goddamn it, couldn't he tell me there was going to be an ability that will render fleet charge completely useless? now I have wasted a feature

Or

Couldn't Paizo not put features that render other features useless IN THE SAME CLASS?

>>50207120
Fool's Errand doesn't have a "GET OVER HERE" maneuver as far as I can remember. You can't throw the Ogre Hook either. Am i missing something?

>>50207109
I feel like my GM ought to let me grapple and pull people with the hook if I pay a feat for it or something, since he's quite lax. I've yet to ask though, this is a pretty fresh idea.
I do agree that initiators are a bit too anime for what I'm trying to do, though.

>>50207158
Fleet Charge isn't totally obsoleted; it gives you an additional attack and gives you a bit more flexibility with how exactly your turn can go. Granted you pay for this with a use of mythic power.

For example, if the enemy is outside your movement range, you can move, use Fleet Charge, move + attack, and then use your standard for a regular attack, giving you two attacks in a situation where you might otherwise have normally been able to make none.

Fleet Warrior is still probably the better ability overall though

>>50207158

There are some VERY blatant trap options in Mythic, while there's some absolutely god-tier ones as well (Precision is just disgusting.)

>looking at Synthesist summoner for my Ryuko gestalt char

>" The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus, and gains the eidolon’s armor and natural armor bonuses and modifiers to ability scores."

Oh

Well that idea is dead.

sigh.

>>50207352
Aegis?

>>50205658
>Wait why would you ever use a Katana if you weren't trying to use a sword with only 1 hand.
Daisho Expertise.

>>50207369
i considered it, but its hard to get the same flavor out of it, since you know

the suit isn't alive

I mean i guess i could fluff it that way but its kinda bleh.

And aegis functions around heavy armor for the most part, so i couldn't even get a way to make it feel light armor.

>>50207158
>1st-party 3.x derivative materials
>surprised at trap options

Anon, the *ENTIRE POINT* of half the abilities offered in any book save "and now more spells" is to ensure that if players don't get the chance to carefully run all the numbers (exactly what was done to you) they will completely fuck themselves over.

That is the entire goal.

At this very moment, JJ is sitting in his office, masturbating furiously to 7-wisdom fatass "women", and forming an absolutely ridiculous-looking o-face at the very thought of your characters being completely and utterly shit compared to what they could have been.

Would vital strike with a double shotgun be worth it?

>>50207376
Well I mean the most optimal way to play Aegis is to take the astral skin form and use it for tasty bonuses while wearing ACTUAL armor.

Which still isn't that great for what your doing.

>>50207397
yeah, and the aberrant archetype doesn't work for me either

Skunked.

>>50207352
?? Synth is pretty powerful, anon, not basic summoner tier but more than any martial tier

>>50206080
>Oh, question to any DMs. Do you just ignore the minmaxing induced pattern, or is there an in setting reason why every single spell caster in existence just so happens to wear a haramaki? Or does "everybody has the same armor" just not seem very important?
Depends on the caster in question. I don't make NPCs are carbon copy print outs of what is optimal.

>>50207408
What are you not getting about gestalt anon.

>>50207414

I think anon is implying that any campaign that allows gestalt is basically a competition between players by that point, rather than a competition between the DM.

>>50207442
>I think anon is implying that any campaign that allows gestalt is basically a competition between players by that point, rather than a competition between the DM.
That is a shitty outlook.

>>50205302
Sometimes with my IRL friends that I'm Co-Dming with, I forget that ultimately they are the ones in charge and so I need to let them explain the rules that they know to the new players and not cut in. They don't get mad but I'm still trying to help them out a little more then I need to.

>>50207442
i disagree? Most gestalt campaigns are about making fun cool things

The synthesist's limiting of BAB is limiting my fun cool thing, and thus i am feeling a little upset about it.

Like if i wanted to break the game with Gestalt i wouldn't be looking at summoner/fighter and going YEAH SYTHESIST FITS MY IDEAS AND SHIT i would just go like

I don't konw

Exploiter wizard and some pow class thats based off of int to show how few fucks i give

>>50207460
I would say Instructor Wizard/Harbinger or Instructor Wizard/Warder
Free int based leadership is better then exploits in my opinion.
Or if you really really want to have exploits have Instructor Wizard/Arcanist, then you can have your for sure to use spells in Wizard slots and all your other spells in your arcanist slots when you need them.

>>50207460
>Thinking BaB means ANYTHING on a synth
Don't tell me, you're the kind of people who look at cleric and think they suck compared to fighters, well, let me tell you you're going to make more attacks and hit better with a synth than with a fighter

>>50207492
exactly

Point is thats not my goal

I mean i understand why Paizo put that line into the Sythesist to stop people from just dipping it for FREE PHYSICAL STATS but its still frustrating.

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>>50207503
NIGGER WHAT DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND ABOUT GESTALT.

I wanted to make a character with a -living suit of armor-, that uses a big fuckoff sword. BAB does matter to me.

I am trying to make a fun Pathfinder version of Ryuko using Gestalt

I am being gimped in that

Do you get it now you absolute smeghead?

>>50207503
Yep it ends up about equal to high bab with the STR/DEX bonuses it gets.

>>50207528
What level are you starting?

>>50207535
Which is absolutely great, when you are using its natural attack array

Its absolutely not great when you're trying to use it for normal attacks and get gimped out of an extra attack

>>50207545
You loose a single attack at -15 ab that you can only make on a full attack.
Why exactly are you bitching?

>>50207550
delayed combat ability at every level in game where full BAB attackers will be the norm will in fact hurt quite a bit

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>tfw I make hypothetical level 12 gestalt builds I doubt I'll ever play because the creation high gets me all giddy

End this suffering, please.

>>50207550
probably because it means that taking the fighter side of the gestalt is significantly worse. There's no reason to take a gestalt half that gives anything more than 15 bab.

>>50206037

Apart from the previous two, perhaps a primal companion hunter or an archer spiritualist with a refluffed phantom?

>>50207560
You're playing Gestalt, aren't you? Then have your second class be a full-bab class and use it's bab instead. There,you have your extra attacks back.

>>50207528
Edge Lord Harbinger

>>50207581
No, you don't, because the Synthesist side means you always use the eidolon's BAB

>>50207560
Yeah you are... oh wait you are a summoner you get fucking haste at level 4 which gives you one extra attack a level before other classes, granted it is 4 rounds but hey it is a level 2 spell, or hell you can take one of the abilities that lowers it's level when using meta-magic and then extend it for eight rounds which is basically a whole combat.

>>50207596
yeah dude nobody else will be holding haste in a gestalt game -.-

>>50207569
DM a game where the players have to fight with and against other heroes in colosseum?

>>50207606
>yeah dude nobody else will be holding haste in a gestalt game -.-
I mean.
It's a possibility.

>>50207606
So now are you are bitching because you are not as good as the other kids whos characters you have not seen not because you are lacking an attack.
Also you get haste earlier then every other class with a summoner meaning you can prep more of it as well as it is a lower level spell for you.
If you are that concerned about how well you do compared to the others play an aegis.

>>50207617
yeah and a meteor could also come down from the sky and release me from this pain.

>>50207621
dude there's no way nobody else is packing haste in gestalt.

And an aegis doesn't work for the fluff I want.

>>50207606
You might be down one attack but your damage modifier from Synth strength on a 2h weapon will more than make up for it.

>>50207586
>The synthesist uses the eidolon’s base attack bonus
Well, the fighter side doesn't,only the synth side. That's probably stretching it, but hey, it might work.

>>50207632
>take light armor
>say it's fucking talking suit
>there's even a CHA archetype with a spoopy ghost suit that would probably work even better.

>>50207658
that's definitely stretching the rules, if not outright breaking them.

>>50207661
>horridly gimp myself mechanically for the class
>Take an archetype that makes no sense with the flavor
>claim my suit is alive for no reason

Mmm i can feel it

absolutely zero mechanical connection to the flavor side this is really the dream build thanks for enlightening me anon.

Holy fuck I clearly hadn't considered this and dismissed it because i found it to be inferior in the flavor department.

>>50207658
>>50207669
Dude, in gestalt you use whichever is better. Eidolon replaces the summoner side only. I think there was even errata so it didn't mess up multiclassing.

>>50207693
Have you considered killing yourself to solve this problem

>>50207697
there was definitely not errata so it didn't mess up multiclassing because the wording is designed to fuck multiclassing.

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>>50207569
>enjoy making pathfinder characters because the amount of chargen options hits me like a fucking drug
>hate playing pathfinder because all of those chargen options are worthless, le 5 feats to tie your shoe meme, and my group mostly just wants to play mobile stat block dungeon crawl simulator
kill me now senpai

aside: why does celestial healing exist? what justification could there possibly be for this travesty of a spell?

>>50207632
Be an aegis and see if your gm will let you use an intelligent item for your armor good christ.

>>50207693
Yes you're going to have to refluff fucking something because no one made any fucking class based around some random Gainax anime about skimpy talking clothes.

Or just not be a cancerous piece of shit and play an initiator who relies on strikes and not Full Attack+Boost spam bullshit.

>>50207718
>initiators
>less cancerous than full attack

Now thats a funny meme

>>50207708
>infernal healing
>This ability cannot repair damage caused by silver weapons, good-aligned weapons, or spells or effects with the good descriptor.

Probably becuase of this.

>>50207708
>aside: why does celestial healing exist? what justification could there possibly be for this travesty of a spell?
To show that good is inferior to evil.

>>50207708
Because infernal healing exists.

>>50207732
fun fact because of Celestial healing's duration Infernal healing is generally better.

>>50207756
That was part of the point.

Now you can use an inferior spell, because the alternative is evil for no discernible reason other than "authors said so".

>>50207736
is this just some weird edgy paizo meme? what closet warlock fetishist on their design team decided that evil was so much better than good that good casters only get 1 health for an entire spell slot?

if the power gap between good and evil is that large, how does the world of pathfinder even still exist? shouldn't it just be a burning hellscape filled only by charred corpses, where the only sounds that can be heard are the screams of the eternally damned and people who thought loading celestial healing into a spell slot was a good idea?

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>>50207795
Here, let me smear the ESSENCE OF PURE EVIL on you, surely nothing bad will happen, it's a healing spell!

Fucking retard.

>>50207814

Golly anon, just because Good gets one slightly worse healing spell doesn't mean it's a screaming hellscape of damned souls.

>>50207705
It's in their FAQ, go look it up. You add other class BAB to the synth normally.

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>>50207826
Your alignment can change as a result of casting [evil] spells. Three Infernal Healings, and you go evil.

See Horror Adventures.

Why can't there be a happy middle ground with a Neutral healing spell?

Say it's like, Pharasma's Mercy and made out of water or something.

>>50207826
By RAW it does nothing but grant some fast healing and make you show up as evil on magic radars.

That's it.

You don't suddenly start craving bbq babies.

>>50207857
Uh huh. I bet you say that all the time, SATAN.

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How do I get a pet flying dinosaur?

>>50207857
>You don't suddenly start craving bbq babies.
Of course not
Everyone knows jelly babies are better

>>50207844
"Summoner: Does a synthesist (page 80) use his own Hit Dice or his eidolon's Hit Dice for evolutions based on Hit Dice, such as Breath Weapon and Web? What about his BAB for making attacks?
The synthesist uses the eidolon's Hit Dice for the effects of evolutions, not his summoner Hit Dice or his total Hit Dice.

When fused, use the eidolon's BAB instead of the summoner's class BAB, and add in BAB from other sources as normal. For example, a fighter 19/summoner 1 normally has a total BAB of +19 (+19 from fighter, +0 from summoner), and when fused with his eidolon this increases to +20 (+19 from fighter, +1 from the 1st-level eidolon)."

that is some dumb wording on the original ability bleh.

>>50207833
I'm just saying, if evil is 10 times more powerful than good, you'd think they'd just rise up and overthrow their good oppressors and be done with it.

they could have at least let you use it to hide your evil buddies when the paladins swing by for their hourly cleave and smite checks, but apparently the good guys can't even do that right

>>50207915

Last time Evil tried to do this they got their butts kicked in by a legion of angels.

The only reason the Worldwound's still open is because this was Iomedae's I GOT THIS GUYS LOOK AT ME BEING A BIG GODDESS NOW.

>>50207961
>This poster has been trumpet-banned indefinitely

>>50207912
The problem is it is additive not in place of if higher.
So with a bunch of summoner levels it would still replace your old BAB.
The alternative would be it would be your current bab plus the eilodons bab which is stupid as fuck.

>>50207915
Evil doesn't usually do that because demons are fucking retarded and will backstab one another relentlessly. Same with devils.

Good wins because evil is dumb.

>>50208010
yeah if i now take this at RAW, i could have +35 BAB. herp derp derp

It should just say 'use whichever BAB is higher'

>>50208021

Nocticula has done more to stop the Abyss than Iomedae has ever done.

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>>50208021
>good is shit and evil is dumb
alright, I can suspend my disbelief for long enough to accept this explanation

but when we're all burning eternally in the fires of a post-evil-apocalypse wasteland, you'll all be saying "damn, we should have listened to celestial healing anon"

>>50205668
Related Question:
Why have all of these different weapons? Even if they were all balanced within their catagories, what's the point of having so many polearms and spears that are all marginally different?

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>>50208064
>implying I haven't been preparing all my life in a hellscape.

>>50207569
God do I ever now this feel. Making characters allows me to forget how shitty life is.
>>50205302
Crippling social anxiety and depression.

>>50208064

Name (23) settings where good is shit.

Go on, prove it.

>>50208134
Real life

>>50208134
You would have to define "Good".

>>50208134

Well, Dragonlance has a really fucking stupid idea of what qualifies as "good", based on the whole "idiot king who created thought police to enforce good behavior and jailed people for non-crimes upset the balance between good and evil by making good too powerful" thing.

What class has the most utility while staying as "mundane" as possible?
I mean mundane as in no casting, binding, manifesting, veilweaving or initiating. It could be a normal guy with a bunch of magic items or something. Maybe a Tinker.
Thoughts?

>>50208191

Rogue with an eye towards diplomancy and othr cheese, since pretty much all you've left yourself are skills, which are shit except for when they're accidentally overpowered.

>>50208191
I'm a big fan of Artisan for this kind of thing.

>>50208031
>It should just say 'use whichever BAB is higher'
For what purpose? Paizo hasn't even made gestalt rules for Pathfinder, so there's no reason for them to consider them. Wording like that would just gimp anyone wanting to multiclass with synth summoner for no reason.

Regarding Psycrystal Affinity+Psycrystal containment:
This allows the initiator to continuously expend the psicrystal's focus and have the psycrystal regain it as an FRA each round, right?
Also, can the psicrystal stay 'on top' of the character so it automatically moves alongside it?

>>50208191
>bunch of magic stuff
>mundane
hahalol.

>Can't pick what to play for new game next week
>keep coming up with new characters
Holy shit it's like I'm drowning
Why can't there be a character that can like channel dead heroes or some shit to retrain his levels and feats in 8 hours

Hey guys, I got a dumb question I cant find the answer to online.

Would dominate monster work on a Devourer?

For reference:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/undead/devourer

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/d/dominate-monster

>>50208314
There's a big difference between shitting out a fireball under your own power and waving a magic stick around so one comes out if it

>>50208332
Dominate Monster(and virtually every other enchantment spell) is a mind affecting spell, and undead have blanket immunity to those.

>>50208332

Undead are immune to all mind-affecting effects.

Dominate is a mind-affecting effect.

>>50208310
>This allows the initiator to continuously expend the psicrystal's focus and have the psycrystal regain it as an FRA each round, right?
No.
"The psicrystal cannot focus itself—only the owner can spend the time to focus the crystal."

>Also, can the psicrystal stay 'on top' of the character so it automatically moves alongside it?
Yes. Keep it in your pocket or something.

>>50208191

Slayer and Artisan will scratch that itch.

>>50208347
Thanks friend. So is there no way to gain total control of a Devourer then?

>>50208341
Not really. And when you dismiss all initiating as non-mundane it makes you seem like you just don't want any subsystems, which is a fast track to a T4 class.

>>50208329

Give us your top favorites and we'll bully you about them!

Heck, if they're cute we might even wanna bone them!

>>50208332
Dominate monster is technically not on the list for spell deflection.
RAW yes
RAI probably no
Ask your GM

>>50208366

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/magic/all-spells/c/control-undead

>>50208191
Legendary unchained Underground chemist, chemist rogue

>>50208380

Yes it is.

>If any of the following spells are cast at the devourer and overcome its spell resistance, they instead affect a devoured soul: banishment, chaos hammer, confusion, crushing despair, detect thoughts, dispel evil, dominate person, fear, geas/quest, holy word, hypnotism, imprisonment, magic jar, maze, suggestion, trap the soul, or any form of charm or compulsion.
>or any form of charm or compulsion.

Dominate monster is a compulsion.

But it's moot because the Devourer itself is immune anyway.

>>50208366
Control undead(either the spell or the feat). Alternatively, there's a metamagic feat that lets you affect undead with enchantment spells.

>>50205302

>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I don't run or play pathfinder anymore.
But when I did:
I half-assed statblocks for monsters because I was lazy and stats were hard.
I also used gimmick builds, like using a human racial feat to use dervish dance with martial versatility and two levels in titan mauler to break the laws of physics.

>>50208372
>And when you dismiss all initiating as non-mundane it makes you seem like you just don't want any subsystems

Primal Fury, Scarlet Throne, Iron Tortoise and Golden Lion aren't even magical disciplines and you could rock serious face with just them.

>>50208456
So mundane means not being good?

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>>50207569

>mfw I make a level 13 version of my character
>mfw all those delicious high-tier Scarlet Throne and Primal Fury maneuvers
>mfw I'm not even breaking into the hardcore stuff like Elemental Flux

It feels so good.

>>50208329
Living Legend Soulknife is literally that.

>>50208373
Okay.
So far I'm thinking about:
A burly ZweiSent Bushi focusing Fool's Errand and Mithral Current (anime warning)
A grumpy dwarf Sworn Protector that's super racist against elves (elven archer in party)
An Incanter pyromancer that just wants to blow shit up
A nearly indestructble werewolf barbarian that wants to die in battle but can't find an opponent strong enough
A grippli Tinker whose constructs are creepily similar to human females
A disgusting abomination shapeshifter that masquerades as a little girl support caster
Just a normal druid
And most recently I've been inspired by these threads to try and make a Roadhog expy

I really can't choose one

>>50208548
>A grippli Tinker whose constructs are creepily similar to human females
So /r9k/?

>>50208548

>A nearly indestructble werewolf barbarian that wants to die in battle but can't find an opponent strong enough
>A disgusting abomination shapeshifter that masquerades as a little girl support caster
>An Incanter pyromancer that just wants to blow shit up

These are the three that stand out in a way I like.

>>50205582
>>50205523
Do note, however, that these CR increases should come from extra enemies rather than tougher ones; monsters that are 5 CRs higher will likely have abilities that no party, even initiators, can counter or fight against.

>>50208548
>A disgusting abomination shapeshifter that masquerades as a little girl support caster

I played that once.
Synth Summoner with really low physical stats, went monster mode when the party needed it.

>>50206890
>>50206976
It's the same stuff that makes it so that a tower shield can block intimidation attempts, because Demoralize is technically under the perview of "an attack".

>>50208548
>A normal druid
how is that an option with all this

>>50208667
I've never played one and i like the concept a lot

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>mfw that synergy with Improved Quick Draw and Cornered Frenzy Strike

Oh sweet baby Jesus I'm in love.

>>50207881

Animal companion works well enough. You get a medium pteranodon at level 1, large la
ter. If you are skink-sized, maybe a grippli, you should be able to ride at level 1.

A summoner could reflavor the eidolon to be that eventually.

>>50208667
I know, what the hell was the DM thinking...

>>50208191

Does alchemy count? Technically an alchemist with infusions could be strictly scientific. Granted, extremely advanced science and all that...

How useless are spells that target fort saves, since those apparently scale the fastest.

>>50205419
In case you check back on this thread:

I like the base idea. But it feels somewhat like it should be an archetype or class template. Just my opinion.

The maneuver recovery method is bleh. Just bland and boring.

Discipline Focus needs to say that he has to choose it for his focused discipline. RAI is clear, but RAW allows him to select any discipline.

Singleminded should be charm and compulsion, fear makes no sense in there.

The biggest problem is the discipline groups. they make no overall thematic sense. Dark, Light, Wind, Metal and Duelist? What?
Maybe link them with fighting styles, or something else would be better.

The Duelist abilities, you should trade the 9t and 15th level ones. Or improve the 15th level one.

On the focused disciplines, Black Seraph is pretty good, I'm not sure I like Cursed Razors 10th and 16th level abilities. I personally would give the notice cursed items by sight and the immunity to cursed items at ten and the harnessing power at sixteen. Also maybe he could harness powers from cursed items he is wearing? Just so he doesn't have to carry a pair of shoes, helmet or even an entire armor in his hands.

Sleeping Goddess focus is weak. I don't know if the discipline is that better than Cursed Razor and Black Seraph. Those others gain at twenty level a whole bunch of immunities while SG gains one 4th level power and not even enough PP to cast it fully augmented.

You also forgot Unquiet Grave (Dark), Fools Errand (Duelist), and Chimera Soul (???)

Guys I want to make an Elven worshipper of Erastil who wants to protect the community of humans he is from and has been doing so for generations how do?
Here's my (rolled) stats, there's also some feat reworks my GM is using: Power Attack Deadly Aim Combat Expertise etc are all just options for any full BAB class, everyone gets point blank shot, we can be proficient with exotic weapons for free if they suit our background we start off with the max gold for our class and 2 feats instead of one (3 if fighter or human, 4 if human fighter) and get 2 traits.Anything Paizo/1pp is allowed.
10
12
14
15
16
18

Sorry for wall of text

>>50208923
That's not a bad background to start with, it offers a lot in regards to what you could build. An archer of some kind would, of course, be par for the course (and if so I'd say that a Hunter would be your best start for fitting that concept), but for a melee character I would highly-suggest Unchained Rogue (Swashbuckler archetype) and picking up an Elven Curve Blade; 1.5x DEX to damage alongside DEX-to-attack is something that will be VERY powerful if you put that 18 into Dexterity.

>>50208923

Can you put the attributes anywhere you want?

>>50208961
I was thinking of an archer, not sure if going any route besides "ARROW SPAM" is viable though
I'll probably carry an Elven Curve Blade if I do go archer anyway, GM will allow DEX to damage without UC Rogue
>>50208966
Yes

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Hey, /pfg/, is there any way to replace your Charisma modifier with your Wisdom modifier for Charisma based skills? I know Intelligence has a few traits that switch it.

>>50209064
Conversion Inquisition

>>50207915
>>50208021
You fools, Golarion's power balance is on a tightrope talking at the level of deities. It's obvious Asmodeus is still moving the pieces around (To note, while devils will try and backstab each other, they all are unequivocally loyal to Asmodeus)
>>50209064
>>50209071
Reformation inquisition as well.

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>>50209064

The Conversion inquisition is the strongest option for this, unconditionally replacing Charisma with Wisdom for Bluff, Diplomacy, and Intimidate. An inquisitor or an incanter can have it from 1st-level, and a warder (ordained defender) can take it at 3rd-level.

Without such classes, it grows somewhat tricky. Bluff can be made Wisdom-based given the Cunning Liar regional trait:
http://archivesofnethys.com/TraitDisplay.aspx?ItemName=Cunning%20Liar

The Persuasive Insight faith trait for Diplomacy is terribly situational, so you will have to settle for the Diabolical Negotiator feat, hopefully its d20pfsrd.com version:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/diabolical-negotiator

All you have to do to qualify for that feat is worship a pantheon that happens to include an evil god... and incinerate another feat slot on Skill Focus (Diplomacy).

If Forrestfire Studios material is allowed, you could play a spellburst savant with Stir Heart and Mind, giving you Wisdom-based Diplomacy, Knowledge (arcana, local, nobility), and Spellcraft and letting you make a Spellcraft check in place of three Perform categories. Cunning Liar should go well with this.

>>50209071
>>50209103
Both of those are from inquisitors? I never took a look at them.

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>>50209103
oh boy, here comes the screaming hellscape of damned souls

>>50209118
Any class with domains can also take an inquisition in place of a domain.

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>>50205302
>What makes you, yes, you, such a bad player/GM?

I've played this game for 2 or so years and still have to look up the most basic things. I just don't read anything until I absolutely have to. This is something I'm trying to fix.

If I can't find anything to say in the situation or I can't immediately solve the problem, I just sit there in silence until something happens/someone figures out what to do. I'll sometimes spend 90% of the session having not said a word because "I wasn't sure what to say" or "Nothing I said would've really helped the situation." Which then leads to me feeling like shit because everyone has much more interesting characters than me (in my eyes) and I feel like I'm just a side-character in the background who doesn't matter.

I have this terrible, terrible problem of making up too many character concepts for my own good and I end up wanting to play this or that cool thing that popped into my head one day after like 1-2 sessions. Sure, yea, I could just GM and put those characters into a setting but I don't have the patience for GMing, let alone GMing Pathfinder.

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>>50209118

>mfw Warder (ZweiSent/Ordained Defender) with Conversion

The ultimate wise soldier!

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>tfw talking about dropping Cha in favor of wisdom
>all I want from a class is a Cha-based Sanctified Slayer Inquisitor, preferably with the ability to jack the Oracle's Cha-to-AC and get Cha-to-Wis
>instead I had to just play an actual Oracle and ditch multiclassing

I may be tier 2, but maybe I didn't want to be. Maybe I just wanted to have my silly 6th casting "I'm pretending to be a real martial" meme.

>>50209118
>spellburst savant
Where can i get my hands on that?
Illegally, if possible. I like Forrest but I can't afford to spend money on text.

>>50209182
>Cha-to-Wis
>meant to say Cha-to-Will
>the salt flowed so fast I fucked up my post

oops

>>50208191
Vigilante can be built entirely (Ex), has talents that are unequivocally better than feats and rogue/slayer talents, and can be even better with 3pp support.

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Factotum 5, going full 20. 3.5 low-magic homebrew setting.

Feats:
1st: Point Blank Shot
Human: Precise Shot
Flaw 1: Font of Inspiration
Flaw 2: Darkstalker
3rd: Quickdraw
6th: Knowledge Devotion
9th EWP: Hand Xbow
Probably more FOI for the rest of my feats.

Thoughts? Not looking to minmax here, just want to have fun. pic related.

>>50209207
but it doesn't have a frog agathiel or whatever archetype so WHO CARES

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>>50209142

Yes, but then you will be missing out on domain spells.

>>50209146

The warder (ordained defender, zweihander sentinel) is practically the "standard warder" from an optimization standpoint, and I think that both archetypes are straight upgrades.

>>50209184
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B5HkyGRtGZy3T3lfQThtVDRkMU0
It's not illegal, it's actually free (unless some company decides to buy and print it). It's basically homebrew, but she's good enough to earn some money with homebrew.

>>50209255
What? It ceases to be a mundane class, but it DOES have an Agathiel archetype, that lets you be Pepe the Fighting Frog, terror of the swamps, who catches criminals like flies and defeats tyrants.

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>>50209329
no thats a spiderman archetype

You can't be a frog waifu so whats the point

>>50209329
i think anon is thinking of the wildsoul archetype

>>50209337

She would be (Su) in Pathfinder, though?

>>50209274
Didn't she write Warder or am I tripping

>>50209349
wildsouls can be completely (ex)

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>>50209347
>>50209337
>>50209329
>>50209255
I'm working on a frog-themed Wildsoul option actually, alongside other animals for themes, like dogs and snakes and bees!

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>>50209387
excellent

>>50209274
Oh hey this is cool
How much better is the EX TURBO version?

>>50209407
God I love this frog character but i hate mangoes
Should i read it just for her anyways

>>50209449
She's not really the focus, she's just a major minor character.

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>>50209449
Sadly she's a side character

But she's also best girl

Worth reading that mango anyways, its pretty solid

>>50209352
Chris wrote all of PoW1 except Traditions, I think?

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>>50209432

The spellburst savant EX Turbo, when properly optimized to make the most of its "fundamentals for combat, spell slots with Echoing Spell for noncombat" paradigm, is probably on the same overall level as heavily optimized initiators with Path of War 1 disciplines. That is to say, it is most certainly numbers-distorting.

The EX Turbo has more noncombat potential than most initiators, of course, in exchange for less combat power.

I have been playing an aellar spellburst savant EX Turbo from 7th- to 9th-level by now, and I can attest that it is exactly as strong as it is on paper as it is in play, outshining even heavily-optimized non-initiating tier 3 casters.

>>50206746
Worse than Warlord isn't a fucking problem.

It's like saying 'Worse than a Cleric'

>>50209479
Which one feels better to play, you think?

Hybrid Class Combos that should be s thing:
>Cavalier/Summoner
The Pact Knight
>Inquisitor/Cavalier
The Conquistordor
>Oracle/Inquisitor
The Exorcist
>Cleric/Summoner
The Cultist
>Druid/Fighter
The Wildman

I already know what I would want them to be like, maybe I should just homebrew them.

>>50209507
All of these exist already
Some in multiple ways

>>50209507
>Oracle/Inquisitor

The rest are pretty ass, but I want this.

>>50209522
How do I get a summoner with domains? Or something eidolon like with something domain like?

I got a Rod of Metamagic: Quicken last night.

What are some 6th level and lower Druid spells I should use it with?

>>50209553
Incanter

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>>50209500

The EX Turbo if you think "high tier 3" means "an initiator running roughshod over combat encounters with buffed-damage multiattacks and walking through walls at-will with Ghostwalk," and the more unassuming spellburst savant if you think "high tier 3" means "an unarchetyped inquisitor who can do well both in and out of combat."

>>50209563
Alright i see
Thanks 2hu

Why do GMs get so angry at item creation based characters, or characters with item creation? I'm playing a dwarf arcane builder wizard right now and having a blast.

>>50209589
Most GMs want you to use the loot they give you and take selling it and crafting your own the same way your aunt takes you refunding the stupid fuckin donut maker she got you for Christmas

>>50209589

Because you're only doing it to break the game.

>>50209064
Possessed Shaman

>replacing my old character in a game I'm in.
>paladin is in the party
>he is also re-building his character.
>I want to build a warpriest, but paladin is kinda similar so I don't want to step on toes
>the paladin at level 11, has 16 str, 20 cha, no power attack, using a one handed sword in one hand and a light shield, and is using TWF to get an extra attack off of the light shield.
>I now have to build a warpreist who doesn't overshadow a "I deal 1d8+6 damage at level 11 when not smiting" paladin.

>>50209633
If I was only doing it to break the game I wouldn't be making so many wands/potions/scrolls.

I spend the gold I save of having a nice home, businesses, and giving to charity. My Dwarf has a park named after him.

>>50209589
Because item crafting breaks the game's WBL super fucking hard.

>>50209589
Because players shouldn't be able to create items at a whim. It breaks the game in half.

>>50209629
Which I do get to a degree. The martials do that. He doesn't give much gear I want to use. If something I was gonna make anyway shows up I'll likely alter it (change color, embroidery, etc.) rather than make an entire new one myself.

>>50209697
>If I was only doing it to break the game I wouldn't be making so many wands/potions/scrolls.

You think you're meant to have that many magic items?

Try solving difficult problems without magic. You'll have more Fun.

>>50209728
>>50209733
The money is used semi-inefficiently. On a lot of scrolls/wands/potions. The money I save gets spent on a nice home, businesses, nice mundane things (had a portrait commissioned by a famous artist) and giving to charity.

>>50209747
>Try solving difficult problems without magic. You'll have more Fun.
>My playstyle is the only fun playstyle.

>>50209756
but at any time you could choose to break the game over your knee

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>>50209747
>STOP LIKING WHAT I DON'T LIKE
>USING CRAFTING SO YOU CAN FRIVOLOUSLY SPEND THE SAVED CASH IS WROOOOOOONG

>>50209769
>>50209759

What's with your generation and being unable to deal with differing opinions?

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>>50209387
>bees

>>50209792
Oh, you mean like finding it more fun to use magic?

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>>50209675
>not doing the same thing and being shield bros

>>50209747
>Try solving difficult problems without magic. You'll have more Fun.
Sounds like you want a game that isn't Pathfinder.

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>>50209792
>why can't you deal with differing opinions
>like my opinion that you're wrong and should stop
>I'm not projecting!

>>50209522
Tell me about the cavalier/summoner and druid/fighter.
These interest me and don't remember seeing something similar to these.

>>50209764
Yes I'm already playing a wizard, that's a given.

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Would it be overkill to take Fool's Errand on an already grappling focused character? Are locks and grapples both useful to have, or is just one more than enough?

>>50209907
any now you can do it even moreso

>>50209943
You're the guy who advocates that anyone who owns a gun is guaranteed to go Columbine

>>50209811

Yeah. do you prefer easier solutions that are less likely to fail and take less effort?

>>50209933
Lock is basically an attempt at a grapple that doesn't need two fucking flowcharts to keep track of
They don't really mesh much though

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How do we make ratfolk not suck?

>>50209989
Lock also ironically fucks over martials way harder than it does casters.

>>50209943
Yea, but I'm not. I just want to own several business including a franchise of resturants.

Since the topic of grappling has come up, does wearing a buckler still count as having both hands "free?"

>>50209991
What's wrong with them?

>>50210022
If you don't get the AC bonus sure.

>>50210022
Yep. Using the hand for an attack (Which grappling is) makes you lose the AC bonus temporarily though. I think there's a feat for that, but yooou knoooow.

>>50209984
Yeah, actually.

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>>50210022
Only if you have the Unhindering Shield feat

>>50210050

Sorry your parents failed you.

Trump will make it better.

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>>50210025
20 foot speed, terrible racials.

Any ideas for a good 4th level character build that takes four different level 1 classes at level 4?

>>50210063
Good hips though

>>50210066
Don't do that

What I do with my setting:
>there are only a few major world religions
>a lot of them monotheistic in some fashion (others who have power receive it from their god's demons)
>depending on the religion some have various domains supported by saints, spirits, virtues, etc.

This is possible because someone strong enough to cast a spell like Commune to ask questions is a one in a million or so indivial. Not enough of them around to spread the word convincingly.

>>50210055
No you are right.

Work harder and longer and never expect to see any of the rewards. Your life is truly best spent making your masters richer.

>>50210063
Don't all small races have 20 ft. speed?

>>50210010
and you don't need to complete break the game's WBL to do that.

>>50210078
>literally being this young

Oh jeez. That takes me back.

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>>50210071
I do what I want.
Also the campaign isn't going past level 5 so I think I can get away with it and be as strong as my party members.

>>50210066
Barbarian for rage, alchemist for mutagen, two more full BAB classes that can get you more bonuses and probably heavy armor.

>>50210078
You know the world is improved when old men plant trees they know they'll never rest in the shade of.

>>50210066
Incanter
Soulfire Thaumaturge
Crossblooded Sphere Sorcerer (Blood Havoc, Draconic/Orc)
Sphere Oracle (Slap in favour with this)

All in on Destruction.
MAKE TOTAL DESTROY
110%
EXECUTE

>>50210079
No.

>>50210113

His generation doesn't believe in free speech or democracy. I wouldn't expect reason to have much traction either.

>>50210079
Goblins dont

>>50210124
Goblins and that's it.

More magic = less challenge

How can people argue this?

>>50210137
Kobolds too

>>50210142
Probably because you can still go up against magic.

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>>50210123

You should be sure to ask your GM how Paizo spell benefits and caster level increases (e.g. Blood Havoc, draconic/orc bloodlines, the Magical Knack trait, the Mage's Tattoo and Spell Specialization feats) will interact with spherecasting before doing this, and also whether or not a sorcerer focus sphere can stack with an incanter sphere specialization.

>>50210070

Decently drawn too, most wide hips have forearm-sized thigh gaps or some wild proportions that make them unseemly.

>>50210079
It's not a rule, no.

Just a general trend, like no strength bonus or a penalty. Kobolds have 30ft too.

>>50210089
nice argument. I liked the part where your response had anything to do with the post you quoted.

>>50210113
I agree. Plant more trees so your master's trust-fund children can rest in the shade while your own children go hungry.

I'm sure the nice masters will take pity on you and your family and be nice to you or something.

>>50210130
I like how your comments have nothing to do with anything I said.

>but you are entitled
>but you just need to work harder
>but you hate freedom

>>50210151

Only with more magic/bullshit.

Low magic is where it's at. Creative solutions to realistic problems is far better than "I cast a spell"

>>50210081
But I'm not breaking WBL. I have the correct amount of gold in gear. I just also have a series of successful traditional Dwarven sit down family resturants, a statue of myself in a park named after me, a nice home, several artists and performers I sponsor, and a wife/kids. Is that so wrong?

Also I breed dogs as a hobby.

>>50210094
>the campaign isn't going past level 5
That isn't quite so bad.
Try Barbarian, Alchemist, Fighter (mainly for heavy armor proficiency), and Druid, taking Boon Companion to make your animal companion as good as you.

>>50210163
>Low magic is where it's at.
Sure, for a completely different system where it was built with that in mind.

>>50210162
>but you are entitled
>but you just need to work harder
>but you hate freedom

I like how you don't address them. Nice argument.

>>50210174

Dumbfuck, a GM can make the setting as low or high magic as he wants. There's nothing that says you must include all of the sandbox other than your autism.

>>50210162
>Implying I have a master
>Implying I ever wanna have kids.

>>50210174
>Spell Specialization
t. Baby

>>50210190
>Everything is possible
>As long as the DM is willing to change quite a large amount of the rules system and the way the game is set up

>>50210177
What is to address? I'm sure the masters want you to work harder, for less, while holding them to no standard. I'm not saying they don't want that. They obviously want that.

I'm just saying that if you think they will make your life better by obeying you are wasting your time.

I'm sure some of them are nice people. Maybe you will get lucky?

>tfw reading more into Brevoy
>tfw it seems to have everything /pfg/ wants in a kingdom
>tfw Kingmaker just sorta keeps it as the background thing when Paizo could've cashed in hard on the GoT craze with a focus on Brevoy over the Stolen Lands

>>50210165
>i have the correct amount of gold in gear

>also an absolutely absurd amount of other shit i can afford cause lul wizardsa

ayy lmao

>>50210174

Automatic Bonus Progression is literally designed for low magic campaigns in mind.

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>>50210206
Yeah, that's the point of tabletop RPG's.

>>50210210
>I'm sure the masters

mfw

Can Alchemist multiclass/gestalt well with Inquisitor?

I want to be the ultimate self-buffer

Am I reading it right that an Aegis with Initiator's Soul can change all of his disciplines pretty much whenever he wants? Because that's absurd and awesome if so.

>>50210108
I was thinking some Barb Alch combat machine but I don't want to overshadow the other martial characters in the party that badly.

>>50210123
I've never played in a game that allowed third party.

>>50210166
I considered this but with Bloodrager instead of Barbarian and Mad Dog Barbarian instead of Druid. Though I kind of want something that has a level of Wizard/Witch/Bard or Skald in it. I'll keep theory crafting.

>>50210221
I'm sure the puppies would like to go back to the pound in the name of balance.

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>>50210210
Christ you're an edgy little bitch aren't you?

Find your goddamn chill already, ya asshole.

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>3.5/pathfinder cannot be played low-magic because the rules don't explicit tell me how to do it.

>get lego set
>you can only build what the instructions tell you.

>>50210271
Except it's not a lego set, it's a set of rules that are EXPLICITLY BALANCED around there being a high level of magic in the world.

You want a low-magic game, play a different system; Pathfinder's simply not designed to work in that busted-ass way, and it's more of a pain to bend over backwards trying to get it to fit than to just learn a different game.

>>50210259
>I have nothing to say but I must post

>>50210246
>i have a character motivation to get rich
>cool how will i accomplish this
>magic lul

Great job anon. You saved a bunch of imaginary puppies but didn't make a real character