Why did Black Library choose to push the lolchaos dagger instantly

I haven't read CV but I have read the first third of the HH series. I agree that Horus seems to fall too quickly. He's going about the Crusade business, gets some accolades and a new role, and then gets wounded. We quickly go to Davin and just kind of pussy foot over any real details of the turn. It's been over 5 years since I read the novels so my memory may have glossed over a few things.

I stopped caring about the HH series from BL about the time the one with the dinosaurs came out, but I distinctly remember in the one where Fulgrim became the demon his legion was working with the Iron Warriors, and Pertuarbo and his legion were disgusted by what the Emperor's Children had become, because they believed they were simply rebelling against a distant and uncaring father figure, and a government that didn't appreciate them. They thought Horus would make a better Emperor and they followed him, at the time ignorant of the chaos side of things, and I think that made them one of the most interesting and compelling chaos legions at the time.

File: cultist.jpg (117KB, 942x848px) Image search: [Google]

117KB, 942x848px

>>50190358
Well, I read the first three HH novels recently, and I would say it's kind of a mix of those two views.
Horus already had doubts about the Great Crusade.
Meeting the Interex made him realize that there were alternatives to the Imperium's brutality (and yes, even the "golden age" Imperium was still pretty brutal). He was becoming increasingly suspicious of the Emperor's motives. He didn't want to be stuck doing the heavy lifting wild dad fucked off to do esoteric shit.
All the dagger stab does is put him in a trance/coma, wherein he learns what Chaos is and what the big E has been hiding from him. Does the warp subtly influence his mind? Probably. But mostly, it's portrayed as him being given new information and making a choice based on that. Even after his conversion, his goals seem to be primarily political rather than religious.

>>50190429
>I agree that Horus seems to fall too quickly.
Well thats how its shown. Erebus, dagger then hes a chaos worshiper.

>I haven't read CV
You should give it a try I liked it. Not sure how canon it is however.

>>50190454
>They thought Horus would make a better Emperor and they followed him
The false Emperor belief is much more interesting when Horus actually thinks he'd be a better Emperor, and that Emps had turned his back on the men that had won him his empire.

>>50190499
>false Emperor
That's pretty much what the IA articles held to. The Iron Warriors, World Eaters and Night Lords were all tired of being treated like garbage for doing the dirty work, and felt that their master was taking credit for the blood they shed.

Horus' fall was pretty poorly handled, I felt, in part because of how quickly into the series it happened. He came off as a massive idiot, and immediately dove face-first into betraying the Emperor despite being a major supporter of him only ten minutes prior to Erebus talking to him.

There should've been more of the Word Bearers whispering in Horus' ear and actually aligning Horus' perception by manipulating events around him, not just a sudden heel-face turn where Horus takes the word of Erebus (and ignoring Magnus', a fellow Primarch, warning) and the dangerous sorcery of the Warp that Horus was aware of being questionable.

>>50190482
>Meeting the Interex made him realize that there were alternatives to the Imperium's brutality
Emps hatred of xenos is pretty explicit. However the Interex are more of the exception as apposed to the rule arent they?

>He was becoming increasingly suspicious of the Emperor's motives.
I didnt feel enough of this. The coma and dream experience seemed the bigger motivator and all the Emperor was hiding was the existence of the warp gods. Unless I'm forgetting. I dont understand why that would be such a motivator for Horus. Him beleieving that he was the equal to Emps and chaffing under unjust rule, as he saw it, seems to me more in character.

>his goals seem to be primarily political rather than religious.
He embraces choas pretty hard. The CV he doesnt even like that Fulgrim is all demony now and only views the Gods as allies. More like equals I guess.

>>50190546
>That's pretty much what the IA articles held to.
I like that more I think. It's more of a tragedy when it's with good intentions but down the wrong path. I dont really gete why Horus would fall of chaos so hard when he is already a being of such immense power.

>>50190605
>There should've been more of the Word Bearers whispering in Horus' ear
Or more care from Horus about the treatment of his brothers. Think of all the arguments people have had about Magnus, Angron and Lorgar. It could have been that he saw what the crusade was costing his brothers and felt his Father didnt appreciate their hard work and sacrifice.

There are so many unexplored areas when all it comes down to is corruption. Corruption without even the risk of falling for a good reason, when instead its because of someone elses actions (Erebus).

>>50190358
>be a nice, effecetive and good primarch
>not an autistic manchild
>trust the Emperor
>gets stabbed with a chaos dager
>"oh shit, chaos hype!" few chapters later
Yeah, HH is shit

How would you fix HH, if you were given the right to rewrite it? I would start with Horus and Curze backstory, give them time to build a strong bond, then prior to Heresy, Kurze would go hiding from emperor for shit that he did. Meanwhile Horus decided to go on a little quest to the planet, which has something important for horus to know about according to Ereb. He then discovers the last Thunder Warrior there, who tells Horus that Emperor got rid of them and would do the same to Primarchs and their legions, that they are merely a tool to emp and he doesn't give a fuck about them. Horus wouldn't believe him and kill him in rage, but the seeds of doubt were sown. Finally on davin, when he wakes from coma, he still doesn't believe Chaos, but he discovers that while he was mortally wounded, Curze, despite being hunted by Imperium, arrived at Davine to see what happened to his pal. Curze tells Horus that daddy made several attempts to kill him, and that's just confirms all of Horus doubts about Emperor and give credibility to that vision he got from chaos gods about the future.

>>50191313
Magnus has already been censured at that point with the Emperor threatening
>"If you treat with the Warp, Magnus, I shall visit destruction upon you. And your Legion's name will be struck from the Imperial records for all time."

He had plenty of reasons to worry about the Emperors plans.

File: images (2).jpg (15KB, 443x332px) Image search: [Google]

15KB, 443x332px

>>50191313
You're hired!

File: thunder warrior.jpg (230KB, 913x947px) Image search: [Google]

230KB, 913x947px

>>50190482
Oi don't forget us.
Girlyman and everyone was pointing out that there was a great deal of concern as to what would happen to astartes once the war was over.
He could have been worried he was made obsolete

File: 1473125687036.jpg (239KB, 893x1258px) Image search: [Google]

239KB, 893x1258px

>>50190358
I prefer the idea that Horus's programming got corrupted from within rather than him doing it out of some misguided temper tantrum. You don't make a character with a nobility like Horus and then just have him be butthurt, a gestalt is required to change his course to such an extreme and the dagger and the subsequent visitations provided the window for that gestalt. It also gives Chaos a much more devious and insidious method of recruitment than just lol blood'n'skulls. The dagger and what happens afterwards keeps more in line with how Dolmance presented Chaos in Liber Chaotica, where the physical manifestations are just symptomatic of the blessings granted within.

File: 1473911554378.jpg (207KB, 668x1062px) Image search: [Google]

207KB, 668x1062px

>>50190616
The Interex were unusual, yes. But they also comment to the Imperium on how weird it is that they've mostly encountered non-hostile species or at least reasonable ones, while the Imperium seems to have only encountered violent predators.
They're basically supposed to be a weirder version of the Federation from Star Trek, a technologically advanced empire that's merciful to a fault. Their treatment of the Megarachnids is similar to how the Feds hand-wring about feeding the Borg a virus, for example.

Anyway, regarding the rest I felt that over the first two novels BL did a decent job of showing that Horus was starting to doubt the Emperor, and the dagger was just the push he needed to go whole hog. While he's not quite the Julius Caesar-style character that the IA had him as, there's definitely an undercurrent of resentment of daddy for putting him in an impossible situation, lying to him about stuff that's getting his men killed, increasingly marginalizing his troops in favor of (what he sees as) human sycophants, and giving him directives that seem to be conflicting and dogmatic.

The dagger isn't mind control or anything of the sort, IMO. His coma vision pretty explicitly states "we can't make you do anything, you gotta do it yourself", and ultimately he does *choose* chaos rather than getting corrupted against his will. After that, he seems to be mostly curious about Chaos as a resource that he can harness, rather than a subject of mindless devotion. It makes sense when you keep in mind he's recently learned that E literally used it and then refused to tell anyone or explain about it either, giving fuel to the idea that E was trying to become a god himself.

>>50190358
No you are not. Horus fell in a manner that a retarded child could have seen through. This is a problem with all the traitor Primarchs besides Angron. They're all written like retarded children with no true depth.