Tell me /tg/, are you still interested in swordfighting gifs?

>>50175127
Cheeky cunt. That right there is why the rapier became everyone's favorite sidearm.

>>50175070
> are you still interested in swordfighting gifs?
Never doubt it

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>>50175298
alright then I will dump what I have, although it isn't that much

>>50175297
It's kind of more complicated than that but I agree that stabbing people in the ace is among the top 5 reasons why people want a stabby sword

>>50175127
Fighter on the left was totally caught by surprise and froze up. Could have easily parried it by pulling his pommel a little bit. The fighter on the right took his forehand off of the hilt and is out of position to grapple, and would be in serious trouble if that attack didn't work.

>>50175131
This looks like a demonstration and not an actual fight, but the guy on the right could just turn his quillons a little, maybe raise his sword a bit.

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>>50175416
true on both account but it's important to realize that in every kind of fighting your opponent won't be perfect, and not necessearily make the best decisions. Nor will you.
So mistakes like that is what happens in real life

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I'm contributing!

Damn, fencers are quick.

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this one is only for the giggles and shit

>>50175458
Of course. I've used a sword. It's not a matter of how much you know, but how much of it you remember when you're in the thick of a fight.

>>50175522
Raw speed only contributes so much. It's also a matter of knowing how to move efficiently.

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>>50175644
I usually say that it depends on three main factor if you are successful or not (apart of the skill of your opponent)
1. Do you realize what is your opponent doing to you in time or not
2. Do you know what to do against it or not
3. Can you actually physically do that in time or not

>>50175422
>using modern crafted armor
kek, that would've fucked him up

>>50175644
>It's also a matter of knowing how to move efficiently.

It seems like a good portion of these gifs ends with someone turning a parry into a sudden attack. Effective movement indeed.

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>>50175972
that's the gist of it. Also always doing attacks that in the meantime protect yourself from the opponents attack. That is, if you don't want to end in a double kill

>>50176007
Az összes tornaterem ugyan úgy néz ki

Got any sword-and-board?

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>>50176039
sadly, no, not really. Only pictures and videos but no gifs for those

well... with the exception of a few larp gifs for ants if that's okay with you

>>50176056
That's ok, I mostly just want to gett better insight in what s&w fighting actually looks like. Would you say the LARP footage is decently accurate to "real" fighting?

>>50176102
In most LARPs you can 1. afford to get hit more often 2. the weapons are lighter and can be swung around more easily & 3. a tap counts the same as a hard hit

those three things do make LARP combat quite a bit different

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>>50176102
fuck no.
Even BotN looks more like a real fight than the larp ones. And in BotN they take fencing literally hugging the fence all the time.

If you want to see realism look up on youtube Dimicator

>>50175070
Man, The Duelist was THE shit

Would really help if most of these were slowed down by 50%

>>50175852
>T-that wouldn't happen back then
It would be worse. For the sword, of course, since it would be made of worse quality of steel.

But hey, if you are using 3.X as your only reference point, then well memed

>>50176153
Open some download in the background, here, ftfy

Jesus fuck, it's hungarian larpfag... weren't you suppose to die or something?
Or get perma-banned for using Hungarian?

>>50175526
don't make fun of the dragon twister

>>50175526
Is he stabbing with Katanas?

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>>50176180
nah, too many people would be happy if I die.
And I only get banned from shit tier larps and facebook hugbox groups.

And nobody can distinguish gibberish from hungarian

>>50176167
internet is too fast, hardly affects it

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>>50176201
I'm not sure if that's qualify as stabbing.

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>>50176215
then you must either start DoS-ing 4chan or download the gifs and do some magic on them.
Whichever is easier

>>50176249
gif magic-is fairly simple. Other anon, is there any particular gif you would like to see slowed down? I could do a few quickly before bed.

>>50176273
Is it just me or does all lightsaber combat resemble zweihanders?

>>50176345
which is weird because lightsaber combat in the original trilogy was based off kendo

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>>50176345
it's just you.
You probably thinking of the montante drills put it has very little do do with it apart from the fact that lightsaber fights work in very wide motions too.

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>>50176204
Hungarian, you may be an asshole, but you're my favorite asshole.

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>>50175972
Yup. The riposte, in proper fencing terms. The use of mechanical leverage and angles to redirect and return.

>>50176129
>And in BotN they take fencing literally hugging the fence all the time.

Yeah, HMB and ACL rules work to negate that bullshit.

>>50176345
>>50176350
"Traditional" lightsaber is Kendo/Iado based, but the modern stuff, especially recently with Kylo Ren, is based off Euro longsword and Wushu

>>50176204
Just fucking die already. Or simply stop marking your posts

>>50175356
>alright then I will dump what I have, although it isn't that much
Many thanks. I'm happy to see all of this after getting home.


I might have to save some of these for next time someone says it's unrealistic to be so fast with a weapon.

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>>50176496
You seem mad.

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>>50175471

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>>50176449
I like you too anon. In a non faggot, 4chan way.

>>50176496
Come and make me die

>>50176449
God damn that's some cool half-swording. And since For Honor is actually gonna do Murderstrokes, there might be some hope for half-swordig videya.

>>50176518
So not only hungarian cunt came in, but also the other fucker.

There are three things I don't like on /tg/:
MtG waifu threads
Hungarian LARPfag
you

Go fucking figure

>>50176532
All I ever see these two posters do is post cool stuff in arms and armor threads, exactly what inspires such hate?

>>50176464
The stunt guys for the Prequels claimed they based the choreography on Kendo too but honestly there's very little in common. A few of Obi Wan's stances look like they were lifted from it, then tweaked to make them look a bit silly.

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>>50176509
for that youtube videos will be better.
People will say that the gif is fastened/slowed/shit/the stars aren't right/the stars are right/you are a faggot/you are a white cis scum/whatever
and even with the videos they won't believe it half the time saying it's staged/not real swords/too much protection/not enough protection/experts/not experts/Simpsons did it first/whatever

>>50176532
that's a VERY specific list. Is there a story behind it?

>>50176525
>non faggot
>4chan
choose only one

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>>50176532
Well, I can't speak for Hungarian, but I hate MTG.

>>50176546
>>50176564
Some people just hate fun.

>>50176548
>Prequels
The original trilogy used a kendoka as the fight director, modified by Lucas adding his interpretation of the samurai films he was ripping off.

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>>50176594

>>50176609
source?

>>50176509
also here is three good video that you can show people
This one is coreaographed but the techniques are proper and can be seen clearly. They could done it a little faster but still enjoyable and educational
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn36Pb8z3yI

And here is a training video where they are drilling a few specific techniques, full speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln94E9AGYTc

Also honorable mention on techniques but not on speed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4GoQlvc_H3s

>>50176576
obviously I meant it in a gay but not faggot way

>>50176594
The Fight Arranger for EP 4 was Bob Anderson, an Olympic Fencer, not a kendoka.

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>>50176594
>Well, I can't speak for Hungarian, but I hate MTG.
I'm neutral on the subject but generally I'm not really enthusiastic on CCGs

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>>50176619
No clue, honestly

>>50176640
No shit? Interesting... I mean, the Obiwan/Vader fight is near textbook first position, Chudan No Kame. Pic related.

>>50176387
It's the twirly motions they always make them and the fact that lightsabers almost never seem to stop moving in the new stuff.

>>50176639
Very nice. I like these a lot. Bookmarked all three for later use.

>>50176640
>>50176690
While it's true that he was a fencer, that doesn't mean he didn't study multiple styles. Episode IV lightsaber combat is indeed more kendo. Conversely, episode V is much more of a HEMA longsword style. Episode VI is just flailing around angrily.

I notice most of these are very short. Are swordfights by nature never more than a few seconds long or is it just the short ones that gets made into gifs?

>>50176817
Most Olympic-level bouts don't last very long, which is why they're scored and there's multiple rounds.

>>50176761
I'd love it if Star Wars fights were this speed. Blocking ranged weapons while being slow as fuck is daft.

>>50176817
the gifs are short but the actual fight is usually short too.
That is if we are talking about two agressive fencers where either of them is skilled or maybe both.

The thing is though is that in real fight with sharp swords (if you don't have any protection) people tend to slow down and do way more "preparation" like in the OP gif. I mean nobody wants to get stabbed for real.

>>50176464
>but the modern stuff, especially recently with Kylo Ren, is based off Euro longsword and Wushu

Not it really is not. The Prequels had a heavy Wushu influence but all Lightsaber stuff is just nonsense stage combat. It's fantastic to watch but it has nothing to do with Longsword style you just say that because Rens lightsaber has a crossguard he never uses other than to singe with.

>>50176858
Also people don't just drop dead when stabbed unless you sever the brainstem with a practically unheard of decapitating strike.

The guy in OP's gif could have still killed the enemy duelist if he wasn't some pompous fop but a trained soldier. Even when your heart is impaled you can still actually fight long enough to kill the other guy if he doesn't immediately disengage.

One of my internet friends is a surgeon at an emergency room, you wouldn't believe the amount of shit that can happen to the human body and the human just keeps on truckin'.

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>>50176817
Real fights in general are very brief and unpleasant. Sword or no.

>>50176885
Im talking competitive lightsaber IRL, not the movies. Should have clarified.

>>50176817
It depends. Generally speaking yes they are only a few seconds before someone gets hit.

HOWEVER

HEMA sparring is made a little less realistic because of the gear (a necessity obviously). With a mask and jacket and gloves the brain just doesn't make one fight defensively the way fighting without protection does.

True enough it's impossible to spar hard at full speed without kit so gearless slows down because of that carefullness but the natural defensive movements make what would be a 1 second exchange a 20 second probing match of trading blows.

Even so if a swordfight to the first hit lasts more than one minute it's very long.

Ofcourse people have been grievously wounded and fought on so they were known to last some time.

>>50176690
Yeah. And I'm sure Obi stands in Godan for a few moments in the prequels.

Honestly I don't think lightsaber combat should look anything like anything based on real sword fighting. Far more use should be made of a Lightsaber's ability to turn off and on at will. It should be impossible to parry.

>>50176895
Humans really can live through and recover from the most devastating things. We're also quite capable of dying from the silliest things. It amazes me that humans can be so durable yet so frail at the same time.

>>50176923
>Far more use should be made of a Lightsaber's ability to turn off and on at will. It should be impossible to parry.

Goddamit I've never realized the potential of this.

>>50176923
Don't forget the lack of mass, resistance or fulcrum, and the 360 cutting edge.

>>50176941
The films kind of negate it by how long it takes to turn on and off.

There's a cool comic where Vader kills a clone Darth Maul by switching his lightsaber on so it spears his robot chest and Maul at the same time.

The real difference between lightsaber fighting and most fencing style is the complete lack of hand protection. It would either look much more retracted like stick fighting or as much as everyone shits on it. Extended and snipy like in ANH.

>>50176895
well, that's an entirely different topic but yes.
The problem is, no two people are the same and some people would collapse from shock, some will go on through adrenaline.
But generally speaking that's why most teachings of fencing prepares you to defend yourself even after doing a successful blow.

And generally speaking cuts are more likely to "end" the fight, making the combatant incapable of continuing it than stabs.
Cuts can severe muscles and tendons making the person incapable of moving parts of his body. Although not very likely to die from that only. Obviously there are blood loss, and a few very serious cuts but still.

Stabs on the other hand leaves most stuff that is needed for moving "fine" but other vital organs might get damaged in a way that it's very hard or impossible to stitch you together.
Possible exception is a VERY precise stab to the hart or to the brain.
And that's why in rapier duels it was common that both participants died. it's hard to do very deep cuts with a rapier and it's the best for stabbing. But that won't stop your opponent. So at the end where the blood loss finally kicks in it's entirely possible that both participants have half a dozen fatal stab wound.
Maybe one of them will die there, and the other one will die a few days later in his bed.

>>50176930
It's really a matter of shock and and the central nervous system, and what powers it.

Shock is the main killer, and you can actually train yourself to the point that you don't feel it. Like those weird monk-types that have taken control over their normally automatic body functions, they can completely control the way their body works and thus make it more efficient, like how the Ice Man can run around butt naked on mount fucking Everest and not get frostbite.

But while you can eliminate your body's susceptibility to shock, or at least reduce it greatly, your central nervous system and the blood needed to make it work can't just be ignored. So you can take serious injury to the limbs without real issue, any arterial bleeding can be swiftly staunched by tying the artery/arm off or just cauterizing it. But the trio system is the brain, heart, and lungs. Anything really grievous done to those and what connects them is gonna fuck you up and probably get you killed. On the bright side, you've got two lungs so there's some degree of redundancy (you still really need two lungs, but you won't suffer a critical existence failure if just one is damaged like you would with your heart or brain).

Although yet somehow at the same time, some parts of the brain aren't even fucking vital. Have you heard of Phineas Gage?

>>50176946
or that you can switch of the OTHER guys lightsaber with the use of the force.
Although that was handwaved by saying that the force users can magic protect themselves from it or something along that line

>>50176977
Yes, stabs are the ideal method of killing people, however with such a thin blade it's definitely not going to put somebody down fast.

The best way to drop a guy with minimal harm is to hamstring them, by severing the muscle itself or slicing the tendon.

>>50176979
I had to google the name, but I immediately recognized him. or his skull, in any case. And he's far from the only example of people surviving grievious brain injury.
Interestingly, in many cases it's said that the people who do survive serious brain injury have their personality changed in some way.

>>50176993
or just whack them in the head REALLY hard. If they don't have a head protection.
Even if you don't kill someone with a good head hit it will most probably seriously hamper their ability to use a weapon.

>>50176979
>On the bright side, you've got two lungs so there's some degree of redundancy (you still really need two lungs, but you won't suffer a critical existence failure if just one is damaged like you would with your heart or brain).
and even if somehow magically all three of your lungs (because technically you have three, the right side is doubled) get pierced you still have a few seconds to fuck up the other guy before the lack of oxygen gives you serious drawbacks

>>50176619
I think it's the old King Arthur movie from the... I want to say 50s? Flynn-type era anyway, but doesn't have him in it.

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>>50175356
>Is this what WS6 I5 looks like?
30kfag here. Meanwhile, Lucius vs everyone in Black Library novels.

>>50176609
This gif always kind of loops in a way that makes me think that they are just fighting in a circle and the guy just keeps fucking up.

>>50176619
Not sure, but I think its some old King Arthur movie. I remember seeing that scene or at least one very similar in a King Arthur movie.

>>50177134
Looked up Wikipedia for potential candidates, I think it could be Knights of the Round Table (1953)

>>50176102
SCA is pretty sweet, lots of honor code stuff for determining legal hits, but it's super technical and fun nonetheless.

>>50176530
Yeah but it's all demonstration. I would like to see it uses in sparing.

>>50176548
Just like the rest of kendo.

>>50177302
We're a fun, hard game using batons, but we're still based on pas-de-armes rules, and lose some realism for it.

You play? What Kingdom? Im an Atlantian SCA baby myself.

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>>50177168
dat filename.

>>50176619
Knights of the Round Table
>>50176564
>>50176594
I dunno why that guys an ass. You two are some pretty cool name fags.

>>50176912
Hand to hand outdoors, meaning no weapons nearby, can takes a long time. Those fights are usually determined by endurance. If someone is a untrained pussy, they'll probably start defending shittilly after getting punched once. The fights basically over at that point.

If they're both trained, well... UFC is likely the best example of that type of fighting.

>>50176923
You've got a much more unique weapon than this weeby turning it off and on thing. Parying is still necessary.

The interesting thing is that the blade of a lightsaber is weightless, and can cut through anything at any angle. Probably look a lot more like fencing, because you need only delicate purchase to destroy the enemy, and the swords are very light.

>>50175422

"but why do you have to hit me in the dick for this test, phil?"

Namefags are inherently unlikable.

There really is no reason to do it beside attention whoring.

Doesnt change the fact that these 2 post good content.

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I have no RL swording gifs.

>>50178058
>two full-sized rapiers
As dumb an idea as that may be, it certainly wins points for style.

>>50178064
Its called fighting en-case, and is quite common.

>>50178058
>>50178064
>>50178070
Ol' boy beats
>vaguely-eastern knife-wielder
>rapier and buckler duder
>some achilles-from-troy-styled motherfucker with a spear and shield

All told, a good showing from our en-case gentleman.

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>>50178087
>vaguely-eastern knife-wielder
Knives vs. Swords is already unfair, and the fencer gets the literal jump on the knife dude

>rapier and buckler dude
Rapier and buckler vs. 2 swords is a fairly regular event in period, along with sword and dagger, single sword etc. But that is not a buckler, that looks to be a madu, and its potential is unused in the fight.

>some achilles-from-troy-styled motherfucker with a spear and shield
Is ridiculously stylized and should have ran ramshod over the fencer.

>>50176180
Huh? What did that guy do?

>>50177403
Not that guy, but I grew up in An Tir. Haven't gone in forever though. Should I get back in to it?

>>50178339
Hungarian triggered that anon, obviously.

>>50178591
I dunno. Lots of changes going on that I can be proud to say I am a participant in. With the stagnating nature of the aging SCA being antagonistic to the younger generation and resistant to the changes and improvements of the game and its quality, we have started forming groups for the mutual support of the 18 to 35 demographic. Bringing back the pageantry and festive atmosphere and all that.

>>50178264
>knives vs swords is already unfair, and the fencer gets the literal jump on the knife dude
All agreed, though ambush is an entirely valid tactic in a fight.

>rapier and buckler vs. 2 swords is a fairly regular event in period, along with sword and dagger, single sword etc. but that is not a buckler, that looks to be a madu, and its potential is unused in the fight
He was dispatched with a literal backflip-kick to the face. Cleraly realism wasn't the intended avenue of artistic expression here, you silly larper.

>is ridiculously stylized and should have ran ramshod over the fencer
The spearman literally used at least two different moves I could identify from the Achilleus v. Hektor fight from Troy.

I don't know if it's because I practice foil and epee over actual historical fencing (I used to spend some time doing historical rapier and dagger, and enjoyed it greatly, but moved away from the club and couldn't continue because I don't own my own practice weapons), but the particulars of someone doing style over substance don't bother me that much. It's well animated, and it had an intention that it succeeded in. I applaud the effort.

>>50178667
Forgot my trip

>>50178706
I didn't complain about the style bro, Just pointing it out and clarifying. No need to get your bloomers in a bunch.

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>>50178753
>no need to get your bloomers in a bunch
I don't even care that it was directed at me. Saved the alliteration for laters.

>>50178773
Please, you should be pleased as punch about the plethora of possible posts we could alliterate with amazingly acute ability!

Also: Dicks.

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>>50175356

Why do movie fights suck so much? Everything should look like this, not some slow-ass actors waving props around and doing everything they can not to actually hit each other.

>>50178835
Because an actor is not covered in safety equipment, and being injured would hinder or even end their ability to work.

Actors are paid to barely miss each other, not fight. Except in the original LotR. Those motherfuckers basically just threw safety out the window, and started swinging.

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>>50178829

>>50178835
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27M5KWI_q50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-mnfJvSDkU
Long story short - barely anyone gives a fuck about this while filming. And last time Hollywood hired actual professionals was late 50s

>>50178861
>Except in the LotR
Yes, totally LotR was the only film where this happens... Jesus Christ, educate yourself.

Or just watch some films.

>>50178829
Honestly, I was gonna call you a pretentious plug until I started laughing at the dicks part.

>>50178667
Pageantry and festiveness were what made me love it as a kid. It was just great, like a different world. The vendors, the feasts, the competitions. All of it was just like books brought to life.

These groups sound neat

>>50178894
Its an example, dude. Calm your tits.

>>50178905
Its mostly Atlantian Focused, but if you message me, i'll add you. Lots of good discussion. screwloosecircus AT gmail

>>50178835
>>50178884
>Daily reminder Neeson would go quite vocal during filming Phantom Menace how fucking stupid the choreography is

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>>50178835
Stage combatant here. A big reason they look so shitty is because one of the main rules is that, under normal circumstances, you never swing your weapon if you're actually within striking distance of your opponent. The idea is that because an actor is irreplaceable, the top priority in a fight should be the safety of everyone involved, and rules like avoiding the head entirely and maintaining distance mean that even if one of the actors gets distracted or forgets the choreography, they won't get injured.

You'll notice that actors who go balls to the wall and ignore this rule, doing fights that look more realistic--guys like Jackie Chan and Viggo Mortensen--tend to get injured on set a lot. It's because with so many repetitions of the same actions, mistakes are far more likely to happen, and actors will get injured. Usually it's minor bruises or something, but it's a risk a lot of studios don't like to take.

That doesn't mean it's impossible to make movie fights look good, granted. There are plenty of good ones that still abide by those rules. They just impose limitations that a lot of fight choreographers have difficulty working around.

>>50178917
"Except in X" is not an example. It's an explicit statement that suggest thus is THE only example in existence, you fucking moron.
Fucking tripfags...

>>50178902
Dicks are funny! Yay!

>>50178925
You SAG? I've done a few minor TV shows and Movies, as well as regular live staged fights for my museum's various programs. Last show I did was TURN again.

>>50178928
Here if your problem: You're taking things too personally and literally simply because of your bias against names. Have a drink, get laid and realize your on 4chan.

>>50178928
It's a colloquialism you tremendous autist.

>>50178928
Quit being a faggot.

>>50178961
Then stop being such trendemous faggot that keeps on doing stupid mistakes on every step, then pretend nothing happens. The difference between you and average idiot on /tg/ is that you are not anonymous

>>50178970
Learn fucking semantics, you bloody moron

>>50178983
>>50178970
The British are coming, the BRITISH ARE COMING!

>>50178961
I'm still taking my first steps into screen acting, and I don't do it frequently enough to justify joining SAG, unfortunately. Mostly I'm speaking from my education here rather than professional experience. I did TURN as well though, I was one of the soldiers in the hanging scene at the end of s3.

>>50178925
Fucking Viggo, man.

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>>50178983
You are fucking adorable.

>>50178997
Grab your musket!

>>50178998
No shit? Are you near Richmond? Im a CW Military Programs interpreter, so I've been in pretty much every season.

If you get into regular work, SAG pays for itself, as they HAVE to hire a minimum before open castings.

>>50179002
Vigo was nuts, but John Rhys Davies apparently never did any choreography. They would just line up the biggest, best padded New Zealand soldiers dressed as orcs, and he would start swinging.

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>>50178835

Funny enough, there was an actual professional stage combat choreographer who answered this exact question in actual detail over on the HEMA International group on Kikebook.

Yes, it's a wall of text. No, you probably won't read it all. Yes, you fucking well should, because it's really well-written. It actually changed my mind about a lot of film fights. Going back and watching The Very Phantom Menace video, for example is wholly different with this stuff in mind. What the narrator is describing in that video is literally just how stage combat actually works, so the actors don't get concussed/cut/killed like >>50178925 mentions.

>>50179059
good read. thanks

>>50179030
At least I'm not a fucking tripfag that rehashes the same story for the n-th time.
There should be some fucking achievement for you for bringing the same elements of LotR trivia, word-by-word, at least 5 times per month

>>50179059
>All this HEMA memery
Not sure what's really worst: LARPers, armchair fa/tg/uys or HEMA freaks

>>50179160

What the hell's the problem with that wallOtext? HEMA guys were asking why stage fights suck, dude told them. How the fuck is that HEMA memery?

>>50179160
>Not sure what's really worst

Anyone with any knowledge or interest in history or fighting. Violence is never an answer.

>>50179030
I'm farther north, so it was a bit of a drive for me. Main reason I haven't done more, it's a 3-hour drive to all the filming locations down in that area.

>>50179198
My problem is not with the text size, but the content of it.
And it's HEMA memery due to the constant "HEMA does this shit ten times better" sub- and actual text.

>>50179231
>but the content of it.

Then you're an idiot.

He's not calling for all fights to be HEMA-compliant and indistinguishable from real fights. He's calling for a middle ground between the more or less completely real end (HEMA) and the completely fake-looking end (stage fighting). He's asking for HEMA people to contribute to his side of the euation, but is firm about the fact that there's always going to be limits which keep film fights looking at least somewhat fake. It's exactly the sort of compromise solution that people should be pushing for.

Are you even capable of grasping nuance?

>>50179059
good wall of text, the man makes a fair point

In conclusion one of you sword fags make a film so we can throw money at it and get Hollywood on board

>>50179152
I just searched the archives, and that is onlythe second time in four years Gropey has ever mentioned LotR fight scenes. Whats your problem that has you going full potato?

>>50179231
>the constant "HEMA does this shit ten times better" sub- and actual text.

He's a professional who is also a HEMAfag selling "here's why we don't do it your way" to HEMAfags. Of course it's going to be phrased as "HEMA is the wrong kind of awesome". Did you just start reading yesterday?

>>50179152
Just how new are you dude?

>>50179210
I totally get that. I was making 4 and a half hour drives from NoLa to Shreveport for film work, and slept in my car for gigs that didn't put us up. VA doesn't have much in the way of a film industry in the first place to make it worth it.

Drop me a line if you ever find yourself in the historic triangle. I'll throw you some CW tickets.

>>50175127
why guy on the left just stands there for the slow as fuck attack?

>>50175356
do you have any gifs of people that move faster than molasses?

>>50179386
I think because the guy on the right was pretending to switch stances right before the thrust. But I don't actually know what I'm talking about. That's just a guess.

>>50178667
Maybe the SCA will somebody actually enforce some fucking standards for kit aesthetics.

>>50179386

In practice, sometimes your brain just locks up. Guy in black thought he saw one thing, it wasn't that one thing, and during the time he was processing what he actually saw, the guy in red did a third thing and landed his attack.

Brain-lock like that happens to everybody. If you want to see it happen often, go watch high-speed professional sports which require a lot of observation and independent decision-making (ie, not all "set plays" like US football), like ice hockey.

The military has an actual term for it, but I can't remember what it is, and I can't think of the search perameters to google it. Some sort of observation loop thing.

So are all the fencers in these gifs intentionally moving way slower than normal for the purposes of demonstration, or are they just bad?

>>50179428
Thats part of the goal. The good kits of the SCA are AMAZING, but the shitty kits are still shitty....For no reason.

In this modern day and age, there is more free documentation, patterns and research available than was ever accessible in my parents day, and I can go online and buy an accurate late 15thC linen-lined wool doublet for $45+ shipping. There should be no excuse for dressing like shit when we have the skills and info, or the ready made sources to dress proper.

A first timer in pajama pants and a t-tunic is fine. A 30 year veteran in the same should be shamed.

>>50179474
A lot of them are either doing demos, or the footage is slowed down.

>>50179474

Cameras slow down perceived movement by 10-15%. It's a weird thing I remember from college, but it's really true. I did a film where a couple of boxers from my school had to fight, and since they were boxers they just actually went out and beat the hell out of each other. The daily footage looked crazy slow. The director said they'd bring it up something like 10% in post-production, and that it was normal. Most movie fights are either sped up artificially, or the actors are given ultra-light props (since the sound gets added in later) and heavily trained so they can go ridiculously fast for a very short take.

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>>50176345
>>50176350
Huh, would'ya look at that?

>>50176690
Damn, you beat to it, that's what I get for not reading the whole thread. Have this as penance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaEZZ43WrTQ

>>50176102
If it's Russian/Slavs larping then it eas real combat footage.

>>50175070
>gifs
Ain't you never heard of the WebM?

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>>50179489
I am liking how my helm turned out. Definitely am avoiding the pajama pants though, but will probably need a frumpy heraldic coat.

>>50177403
Outlands.

>>50178917
In outlands I hear a lot of mumbling about death from stagnation, and how we need to open our arms to kids (but not just the kids of the oldies, actual new players), but not a lot is actually happening.

Despite the dangers, traditional advertisement might not be wholly without merit. There are a lot of young people out there who want this, and would enrich it with their participation.

Tbh, I'm nineteen, my mom dragged me into this. But for everybody I tell about it, I get tons of interest. I've brought some people in who needed it desperately, and it feels good to see something like that happen.

>>50179979
Awesome! Maker?

>>50180076
OOTLUNDS!

>>50180131
Well, my email is earlier in the thread. Feel free to drop me a line, and i'll add you to the facebook group. We are the future of this group.

>>50178339
probably I ruined his larp or fucked his dog while running over his wife.
Happens all the time. I mean it's 4chan, people doesn't need a reason to hate each other

>>50179059
that guy was actually from 4chan, he sometimes drops by

>>50179395
Well, I can get some gifs from the Flash series I guess

>>50179386
guy was caught by surprise, big time

>>50179474
The ones where they are doing drills are usually moving slower because they are learning the movements and techniques.
Some are just shit quality gifs.
And some are moving just as fast as needed

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>>50178925

They should really just invest in chainmail and helmets for the actors

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>>50175070
>Tell me /tg/, are you still interested in swordfighting gifs?
No.

I'm interested in swordfighting webms. It's the 21st century. It's doesn't say in the manuscripts you have to use an inferior file format.

>>50180186
>Awesome! Maker?
Vijay Dass

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>>50181478
>It's doesn't say in the manuscripts you have to use an inferior file format.
and yet, they had problems with drawing things in perspective

>>50181453
okay, that's cool

>>50181659
third video here >>50176639 is the full version

>>50181673
Dang, I'd missed it while going down the thread.

Recreations like that are super interesting.

>>50181711
indeed.

here is another one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPfLZFHcNv4

>>50181728
Awesome. Now I'm glad I decided to browse /tg/ at six in the morning.

keep it real, hungarian

>>50181787
there is of course these guys
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38sVdx7nzhQ

and these guys too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDP2maXCzt4

this one is for a theatrical play as far as I know but still good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLxvJCjFOU4


And on the serious comedy side of the things
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csMrmpNVnZ8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gcSWsdTdYGI

>>50175946
is that a woman or a dude with a ponytail

>>50176449
>>50176530
>half-swording in vidya
boy howdy I got what you need
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-B4AwgArwA
maybe someday there will be a release date or something

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>>50175070
Do they have to be legit?

Because if not

>>50176086
>>50176115
>>50176129
>>50176139

>>50182264
does it really matter?

>>50182299
I know that feel. Although I'm pretty sure you would need a controller like the PS ice cream cone or a Wii to handle it in a non-clusterfuck way.

>>50182524
nah, we are on /tg/, you can post non legit ones too. Although some people might get buttfrustrated so there is that

>>50176201
Thrusts are taught in Iaido and old style. It's pretty common in the kata actually.

The throat is also a valid target in kendo.

Obviously I'm not defending that whale, but thrusting with katanas isn't some meme.

>>50182562
>Thrusts are taught in Iaido and old style. It's pretty common in the kata actually.
still, he's using them like knives

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>>50182611
that guy can't use a spoon, let alone a knife

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>>50182611
I strongly doubt that's how you're supposed to use knives. Or any other tool created by human hand for that matter.

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>>50182732

>>50175070
Beide, bitte

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Also

>>50182562
I wouldn't say 'common' in iado, just extant.

>>50176201
I'm not sure you can call that 'stabbing' as much as "bouncing the hilts off his massive jelly rolls in an attempt to perform a maneuver he saw on Samurai Showdown video games".

And I think one of those is actually the sheath.

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>>50182895

>>50181606
I do civil war artillery, and I've always wanted to do a live fire of our Napoleon.

>>50182524
The webm is GARO, for the record. It's a tokusatsu.

>>50177549
well the problem with ufc is with the exception of some submissions nothing they do is intended to be lethal or cause serious damage so they don't bite/eye gouge/etc or just generally fight dirty which is very effective in a real fight

>>50176849
>Olympic-level

Are we talking tinfoil tag? Because the sport of fencing does not resemble real fencing.

>>50179324
Have you ever heard about being subtle? Or ability to form arguments WITHOUT constant comparison and superiority complex?

>>50177589
the actually hilt is supposed to be very heavy which is why lightsabers are supposed to be extremely hard to use. Swinging around a weightless blade with a heavy grip is something you have to be trained in to use effectively because it wouldn't feel natural at all

>>50178884
wow I'm pretty pissed about how the rob roy fight ended. No one has the fucking grip strength to stop a sword from sliding down your hand if he had just actually thrusted or just leaned into it

>>50183348
>so they don't bite/eye gouge/etc or just generally fight dirty which is very effective in a real fight
Yeah but fighting dirty is easy to do. Anybody can do it. MMA guys already have conditioning, hand to hand/grappling skills, and are just tough SOBs in general. If dirty tricks aren't working, they've got skills to fall back on. If all you have it dirty tricks, then you've got nothing to fall back on.

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>>50183364
These explanations always seem rather off to me, and have a worrying tendency to shift around like hearsay.

Seems to me a better explanation is that a keeper of the peace in an overall civilised age might not need more of a weapon, especially when there's bloody magic to complement it.

Someone lacking such forceful talents, and finding himself in a less civilised age may on the other hand prefer a trusty blaster, not because the lightsabre is particularly hard to use as swords go, but because guns in general (past some of the earliest variants of course) tend to be preferable to swords when your life in on the line. A supersonic thrust with hundreds of yards of range at the flick of a finger is quite the technique.

>>50179386
possible that he was expecting it to be a feint.

You get so used to feints and quirky bullshit that sometimes when someone does something simple and straightforward, your brain refuses to believe it's actually happening because experience has programmed you to know that every time somebody moves that slow it's because they're setting up a last minute feint to an actual attack and it can't possibly be this simple and it's going to happen any minut aww fuck he got me fuuuuuuuuuck.

>>50183680
>in a less civilised age
I enjoyed your choice of words

>>50183440

If you bend a sword when you grip it, you do. That's the trick. Neeson grabs the smallsword and puts a bend in it just to the hilt-en of his hand. He'll end up with a pressure cut on his palm (which he does), but it's almost impossible for Roth to pull his sword back out of that grip.

Since we've already established you're dumb, go try it with a fillet knife from your kitchen, please.

>>50181568
His hand looks impressive but what the fuck is his head doing?

>>50184183

IIRC that comes from Olympic fencing traditions. Basically, the thought is that if you're moving your head, which is directly in their eyeline, their eye will be attracted to that and not to what the rest of you is doing. So it's kind of a weird constant feint or distraction that doesn't involve shouting "hey, look over there!" real loud.

Also, this is a thing that sword people should watch.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn36Pb8z3yI

Guys, I desperately need at least one picture of someone wearing armour under a hooded robe.

>>50182524
HAHAHAHA, when he stabs into her throne and her sword is currently on the FAR side. Meaning she's deflecting the sword INTO HER HEAD. He would have had to fight her just to MISS.

Man that's some sloppy choreography.

>>50185983
>her
Despite looking like Hillary Clinton, that is a man.

>>50185983
The thing in the throne puts no pressure on the blade from the outside. They just pause for a moment so the audience can follow the action. I get that /tg/ breeds nitpicking morons who'll point out any flaw they can possibly make up to make themselves feel better, but have some dignity.

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>>50185836
here, take this one.
The guy on the left has armour on him

>>50186902
>that terrible book-binding
Looks like something a teenager would phone in for school.

>>50175551
That's some fine camerawork on the first shot, assuming it was intentional.

>>50179489
w2c accurate late 15thC linen-lined wool doublet for $45+ shipping?

>>50187709

he's full of shit. Nobody can get wool that cheap, anywhere.

>>50185513
>this is a thing

That did not suck. Good find.

>>50175127
lollll autism

>>50175471
Fuck sabres are sexy!

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>>50187709
Machine stitching aside obviously, GDFB by Hanwei has been producing really good shit (if you know what to look for). Good enough to pass as B grade for several period specific reenactment groups (read, stitch counters)

They make great bulk wear kit for every day use, to save on my really nice, hand finished stuff.

Pardon the old pic, but it shows well.

>>50188901
>every day use
>a fucking doublet
Nigga what?

>>50188901
Thats you? I have no idea what I expected, but not that. You're decent looking.

>>50188963
For long events and shit, you need clothes for basic camp/field chores, casual parties, sports etc. Im not going to wear my fancy shit to set up tents, or play field hockey.

>>50188967
Thanks

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>>50175070
I got a few

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>>50189010

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>>50189017

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>>50189036

>>50189017
>>50189010
How do you pause time like that to move the camera?

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>>50189046

>>50189047
If you roll a crit on your D20

>>50189017
You ever wonder watching these, how people died in armour? like did they die of stab wounds or blunt trauma?

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>>50189057

>>50189047
The usual answer is a bullet time rig, but I don't see how you could move one of those around as a handheld setup, even with such a short arc.

Maybe it's a very truncated one, just like four cameras, and it's done with morphing to hide the cuts from camera to camera?

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>>50189073

>>50189072
Knocking them over, then going for the eyes once you opened their helmet or stabbing at exposed places. If you can't risk a grapple, blunt force trauma could kill someone or at least remove them from combat by injury. Even with a bucket on your head, even a strong rock throw could knock you unconscious

>>50189047
Gotta go fast

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>>50189099

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>>50189106

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>>50189010
>>50189017
I get that they are trying to make HMB more dynamic for the viewers, but that matrix bullshit gives me a headache.

>>50189047
A very high speed camera and fucking with the roll speed post-production.

>>50189072
We don't wonder. We have very good records. Most didn't die in direct combat, because if you were rich enough to afford full harness, you are worth money to ransom.

Those that did die usually had penetrating wounds from mass weapons, such as axes, polearms, maces etc, which could defeat armour, or were disabled before being killed by a thrust into a weakpoint such as the ocular slot, the armpit, the groin, etc.

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>>50189114

>>50189099
i mean that may work on a one on one, but do you think they did that stuff in the chaos of battle? or am i just imagining what knights wore back in the day?

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>>50189131

>>50189126
Saved

>>50189120
Once I finish my video dump, I have some good examples of this

>>50189139
In the chaos of battle, you had like 20 guys that well protected and they were rarely bunched up together. If you got that guy off his horse, he was already winded by that, and from there it's easy to fuck him to death.

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>>50189151


>>50189139
Even in the thick of battle, just knocking your opponent over would mean getting trampled. It's not like armor prevents your neck from snapping backward or your armpit from having a gap in armor. That's where Joan of Arc received a deep wound back when she was fighting against the English. She bawled her eyes out as the men tried to calm her. She then got up the next day and stormed the ramparts again... they actually took the fort.

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>>50189172

>>50189139
Finally done dumping, he's >>50189167 right.

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>>50189184
This was a single skeleton found among the dead from the Battle of Visby. Needless to say, the combat of even a small battle - roughly 5,000 men total - must have been visceral. We can't comprehend it today.

>>50189172
Why do people even use swords in this retardation? Even wooden club would work better.

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>>50189198
I mean, you watched this guy in front of you get both his legs chopped out from underneath him as he fought. Him screaming to the ground, blood gushing like fountains from the stumps... I really can't fathom.

>>50189198
More specifically that was someone caught in the rout and murdered as they fled

>>50189198
Now that's a skeleton that tells a story.

Thanks for these threads, Hungarian LARPfag.
You're probably the only namefag I actually like.

>>50189172
>>50189167
>>50189184
Thank you very much. Sorry if stupid question, also very cool webm's.

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>>50189202
Theatrics. It looks cool to use them... rather than a - yes more effective - wooden club. They are still solid though and a nice helmet strike would knock a guy out.

>>50189215
And look at this guy. He did what I'd probably do when faced with an incoming volley of arrows without a shield to hide behind: turn and brace. What sucks for him is that it probably did not kill him. The nice hole in his skull suggests someone went around with a hammer to strafe survivors.

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>>50189215


>>50189235
Not a stupid question at all. It's hard to fathom just how somebody died inside such solid protection. It made it MUCH harder to die... but nothing is perfect.

>>50189224
>>50189230
It is, and it's crazy how much damage was done to some of these people before they expired

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>>50189265
Most of the skeletons found had decent body armor... but head protection was all but absent. Even those who had chain protection like this fellow were not immune to the carnage.

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>>50189202
Because weight-for weight, a 2.5 pound club doesn't have the same focused mass as a 2.5 pound sword, as it distributes over a greater area, and also is less likely to break, being all steel. Falchions and cleavers are marginally better.

As in period, most of us prefer mass weapons in HMB, such as maces and axes, and just bring extra handles. I blow out a haft on my mace at least every six or so practices. Pic related.

>>50189265
>Dat Wisby
UNF

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>>50189277
Here is some of the armor they found. Protects some of the vitals, but it leaves your limbs out to dry. Most likely why this fellow >>50189198 had not wounds to his core.

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>>50189288
And woe to those who did not have head protection... couldn't imagine having the back of my skull sliced open like a watermelon

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>>50189305
Medieval dentists used what they had available

>>50179386
Action > Reaction

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>>50189311
Swords were not thee most common weapon on the battlefield though. Polearms would be the footsoldier's best friend. A sure spear thrust or accurate strike with a poleaxe would easily end a man

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>>50189327
If you were an odd fellow who shaped his skull like the Huns - and the Germanic tribes who became Hunaboos - then helmets were not really an option. Poor choice if you ask me

>>50189061
>those sparks flying

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>>50189338
And if any of you have not read about this:
http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2016/03/slaughter-bridge-uncovering-colossal-bronze-age-battle
yet then you are really missing out on some crazy stuff. Thousands of people from distant lands gathered in Central, Bronze Age Europe to fight in a PITCHED battle for reasons we do not know. At a time when a city of three thousand was considered large enough to be its own city state, over 4000 warriors gathered to kill each other. Although it was the Bronze Age, not everyone could afford the metal. That meant FLINT and WOODEN weapons were still common in the battle.

Try to imagine the king and his select guard. They are decked out in bronze armor, armed with bronze weapons, protected by finely crafted wooden shields. Then there is you. A common warrior wearing furs or wool clothing, carrying a simple bronze tipped spear... or maybe you're the fellow with the bow and are using flint arrows. The king must have seemed... untouchable. Glinting in the sun wielding a weapon that shattered armor and men alike

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>>50189383

>>50189131
I see the knight from the kingdom of the United States of America has arrived. Civ

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>>50189399
And I end with my favorite sword of all: the seax.

Although a knife or a really big knife, some examples are truly a short sword. Not sure why I like it really. Maybe the focus on having as much blade as possible is it

>>50179529
>since the sound gets added in later

Today's fun facts: that ridiculous whip-crack noise you hear when Bruce Lee punches in Enter The Dragon? That's not SFX. That's the sound the sleeves of his gi make when he punches. He was also instructed to slow down to exhibition speed, as the cameramen were having trouble tracking the shot and missing half of what he did.

>>50189120
>Those that did die usually had penetrating wounds from mass weapons, such as axes, polearms, maces etc, which could defeat armour, or were disabled before being killed by a thrust into a weakpoint such as the ocular slot, the armpit, the groin, etc.
Or mercy killed after grievous injury and weren't worth the money to keep them alive to ransom.

>>50189198
>This was a single skeleton found among the dead from the Battle of Visby

The text in the image tells us the opposite, that it's an aggregate of numerous skeletonS.

>>50189277
>but head protection was all but absent.

Odds are the helmets were the one thing that could still be stripped of the corpses after they had been sitting around for a while.

>>50175070
Why can't more fight choreography be like this?

I'd like to see more fights in media where it doesn't look scripted with each person taking turns (even if it is scripted in reality, obviously). I want to see more fights in media where the fighters seem like they actually have some self-preservation instincts. Actually (seeming to be) worried about getting shanked if they fuck up.

>>50190506
>with each person taking turns

>implying people don't take turns in reality

>>50189114
>USA

Those are some classy robes.

>>50190785
Surprisingly the American Flag makes for some really bitchin heraldry.

>>50190785
Surcoats.

>>50190829
Because its heraldicaly correct. Almost all former Colony flags are.

>>50175070

I am interested in fighting gifs in general including sword fighting ones.

>>50190521
Ideally you take the opponents turn.

>>50190857
>heraldicaly correct
?

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>>50191016
As in, the flags ARE heraldry, following the laws that define blazon within the college of heralds. Its not until the beginning of the modern era that we start seeing flags designed in vacuum rather than as an extension of heraldry. For many people who study the subject, the turning point is France and their revolution, refusing to use a heraldic flag (and thus, the aristocracy's flag) any longer.

>>50190857
>Because its heraldicaly correct. Almost all former Colony flags are.
Come to think of it, it is. Unlike a lot of flags there's no metal on metal.

>>50189114
Shouldn't those guys wear something that nobody else would wear as colors, like pink?

Having judges/refs in yellow just seems to scream for a really nasty accident as somebody loses themselves to the fight and mistakes the guy in a yellow jacket for a German.

I know I've made mistakes like that myself. Fighting's weird because, especially with no real control, you just lose yourself to it.

>>50189072
well, they didn't died while wearing twice as much padding as the armour need while their opponents hit them repeadately on the most protected areas with a tool that is made in a way so it CAN'T cause any serious damage to said armour.
That's for sure.

>>50189215
I always wondered of how many of those injuries on the skeletons are caused AFTER the death. Like the guy was already dead but the battle is still going on and the body doesn't even had time to get cold but someone fucks up an attack and hits the dead guy. Or just wants to test if the guy on the ground is REALLY dead or not.

I mean how do we know that this guy >>50189238 didn't got the arrow-to-the-headitis AFTER he was already on the ground?


>>50189232
you should read KM's post more, because he is a walking lexicon and knows way more stuff about this than me

>>50191526
that's why they have long sticks

>>50176449

I hate how in every European martial arts demonstration, one of the fighters acts like an untrained fool.

>Lemme strike with clumsy overhead strikes every time

Even a peasant would know that if they are holding the sword horizontally that you should swing the sword horizontally.

Half-swording is a meme and is used when two heavily armored knights wrestle one another because wrestling them to the ground and stabbing them through their helmet was your best bet at killing them.

>>50192733
>I hate how in every European martial arts demonstration, one of the fighters acts like an untrained fool.

>what is every demo

>>50189198
>This was a single skeleton found among the dead from the Battle of Visby.
It's not, it's one diagrammatic skeleton illustrating the sum total of all bone-depth injuries they discovered on all excavated skeletons.

>>50189215
This is one guy, though.

>>50193157
>On average, a man is ran over each 3 minutes in New York
>Poor guy can't catch a breath.

>>50181453
This looks like a very weird vietnam flashback. Like a time-travelers flashback or something.

>>50192733
>one of the fighters acts like an untrained fool.
>Lemme strike with clumsy overhead strikes every time

Funny thing about that. The sword systems which we have access to (such as Lichtenauer) are actually the EXCEPTION for period fighters. The majority of persons in a combat would not have had this training. There are several references to "common" fighting in the Recital, in Döbringer's Codex, and other primary sources. We don't completely know what "common" fighting was, only the hints given when one of the fechtbuch writers says "don't do X like a common fighter". Lichetenauer's Recitals and the systems which sprung from it were ultimately designed to give the trained student an edge over these "common" fighters, not to be necessarily used against itself.

"Common" fighting techniques we do know, however, include a (clumsy) overhead strike from the opponent's right side, an overhead strike from directly above, and direct oppositional parries which are just that: a simple parry, with no inherently offensive component to it (versus a defense like Zwerchhau which is simultaneously an attack and a defense).

If you're demoing the German fighting system at least, the active opponent SHOULD be using those clumsy overhead strikes, while the patient fighter (ie,the one using the system) counters them in the way the fighting system was intended to do. This is precisely what a demo SHOULD be teaching.

>ie, you're wrong

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>>50192733
>Even a peasant
Well there is a "peasant attack" in both italian (Fiore) and german (Pseudo Peter von Danzig iirc) sources and in both it's a vertical downward strike coming from the right side to the left and with a little bit too much power. So no, not even a peasant would know to strike horizontally.

But yeah, halfswording is the exception rather than the rule.

>>50189327
>Swords were not thee most common weapon on the battlefield
Well they could well be because everybody in the middle to late medieval times had a sword, archers, infantry men, cavalry. It probably wasn't the most commonly used though. If an archer was doing is job efficiently, he would never have to draw his sword for instance.

>>50189327
>>Swords were not thee most common weapon on the battlefield though
Everyone had a sword. Their primary weapon varied, but they always had a sword and a dagger.

>>50197884
>>50198575
you know guys, it's really easy to debunk the "everyone had a sword" thing. It only takes to post only ONE painting where there is a guy without a sword.
So before using such powerful words I would advise you to say "Most people had a sword or something similar" this way messers and various other long knives and daggers are also included

>>50197321
Holy shit, this is a truly bad fight scene. Vague fencing with spears and halberds after a half-hearted clash? A guy on foot attacking into the "fray" with the blunt end of a horseman's pick? What is this shit, Nippon? Is-- is it revenge for The Last Samurai?

I won't lie: we'd deserve that

>>50199011
>Blunt end of a horseman's pick
1: Thats a war hammer
2: Its a one or two handed infantry weapon
3: that kind of "fencing" with polearms is pretty much how two lines meeting start until they engage fully.

Im not defending it as perfect, but its not terrible.

>>50199120
>1: Thats a war hammer
Is there a distinction?
>2: Its a one or two handed infantry weapon
Okay, I admit that I've never heard the claim before that the one-handed type is an infantry version (as opposed to say the lucerne hammer which clearly is). But unlike that other faggot I think you're the best /tg/ namefag, so I believe you.
>3: that kind of "fencing" with polearms is pretty much how two lines meeting start until they engage fully.
Are you *sure* about that? It doesn't look at all like any period illustration or description of pikeman or phalanx clashes I've ever seen.

>>50199011
The joys of a limited animation budget, laddy.

>>50176609
>>50176619
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hyc3YyxWOM

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>>50199152
Two part answer with pics

>Is there a distinction?

Only in the ideology that hammers usually have picks, but not all picks have hammers. Furthermore, horseman's hammers are typically one handed, and with a metal shaft, making it more reliable for horseback.

>Okay, I admit that I've never heard the claim before that the one-handed type is an infantry version
Plenty of art and manuals showing it for infantry. Why wouldn't you? Its a purpose made anti-armour weapon, and more readily/cheaply available than a sword.

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>>50199152
>>50199404

>Are you *sure* about that?

100%, from both practical experience, and written account. Pike and polearm "pushing contests" are how they work. The side that breaks through the other's line has the advantage before swords and other short weapons are drawn.