>playing a sorcerer >use fireball >accidentally kill

> Be a pilot
> Bomb terrorists
> Accidentally kill kids I didn't know about because I can't see what I'm bombing
Should I feel bad?

>>50150345
Only if you aren't a psycho or as >>50150370 said an US soldier

>>50150345
You should feel bad but not guilty.
Kids died and that was your fault, but you had no way to know and everyone trying to guilt you with that is an asshole.

Make it a learning experience for your character and have your rogue scout the place more/avoid big AoE if you don't know about what collateral damage you may cause.

>>50150345
No, but your DM should, that's not how Fireball works.

>>50150370
No. You killed terrorists and more terrorists. Nothing wrong with that.

Does anybody have that one "We blew up bus with school children in Shadowrun. It was the only choice." screencap?

Collateral damage is one of those weird ethical quandaries. You do everything in your power to prevent it but it is sometime unavoidable. Even if you do your due diligence and do everything you can to minimize it, some people feel you can never justify harm to innocent bystanders under any circumstances. But in the heat of the moment there is often little choice.

Should you feel remorse? Probably.
Did you do the right thing? Probably.

>>50150525
>No, but your DM should, that's not how Fireball works.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner

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>>50150345
It sucks but whatever, collateral happens quite often in real life too >>50150370 See?
As long as you kill the bad guys you're good to go.
>inb4 american soldiers are evil
Fuck off to your safe space, faggots.

>>50150345
of course you should feel bad you fucking idiot, didn't they teach you to only use fireball in a sterile environment? Hodgepodge's Secondary Damage Law applies every time you use magic you dong

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>>50150370
>>50150345
Picrelated.
RIP Alan Rickman, we loved you.

That depends on how much information you were given. If you were just fireball-ing a bunch of random monsters in a dungeon, but for some reason with out any indication there were children next door, sure.

But if you were raiding a bandit outpost in close quarters and you knew hostages were around somewhere, yeah it's probably your fault.

>>50150370
yes, you should feel really fucking bad, you should feel bad enough to reconsider how your shitty life choices got you to this point.

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>>50150606
>killing terrorists is evil on /tg/

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>>50150345

Dude that's the start of a redemption arc. by not doing anything with that, you're basically throwing away a huge gold mine of rp.

You do magic but using it caused something bad. You are a walking loaded shotgun. How do you live with that? are you careful when you caught a bug, worried that every sneeze will set off a megaton bomb?

And what of the Kids? do they have families? What if you have / had kids? would you want the same careless hotshot with a fireball up their sleeve out there as well?

Don't forget those kids died in Fire. That's a shitty way to go man. You can make this a defining moment in your story / game. Even if you decide to go the dark path and say fuck the world doesn't care why should I? that rich in; I used to be a nice guy villain territory.

The worst you can do with something like this is nothing.

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>>50150345
>>50150370
They literally made a feature-length movie about this hypothetical situation.

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>>50150606

>>50150525
>No, but your DM should, that's not how Fireball works.
>>50150566
>>No, but your DM should, that's not how Fireball works.
>Ding ding ding, we have a winner


>The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

l2rules

>>50150656
>believing the le mega super evil terrorists spook

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>>50150685
>hypothetical

collateral damage happens Anon, ignoring that is reckless, and why the rest of the world sees america as cowboys with nukes

>Be a drone operator
>bomb civilians
>accidentally miss kids I didn't know about so I come back to hit the first responders

Should I feel bad?

>>50150781
>having to make a second run because you fuck up the first one
literally kys

>C-colatera happens, it's t-the price of f-frerdom
And? shouldn't you feel bad for killing kids? what has that anything to do with what OP is asking?

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>>50150731
>playing inferior editions
I think you'll find that's
>FIREBALL
>3rd level evocation
>Casting Time: 1 action
>Range: 150 feet
>Components: V, S, M (a tiny ball of bat guano and sulfur)
>Duration: Instantaneous
>A bright streak flashes from your pointing linger to a point you choose within range and then blossoms with a low roar into an explosion of flame. Each creature in a 20-foot-radius sphere centered on that point must make a Dexterity saving throw. A target takes 8d6 fire damage on a failed save, or half as much damage on a successful one. The fire spreads around corners. It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren't being worn or carried.
>At Higher Levels: When you east this spell using a spell slot of 4th level or higher, the damage increases by 1d6 for each slot level above 3rd.

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>>50150345
>This is your fault god dammit.
>He wouldn't listen
>WE DIDN'T HAVE A CHOICE
>HE TURNED US INTO FUCKING KILLERS

>be a rail switch operator
>see some kids playing on a rail line with a trolley heading towards them
>pull lever to divert trolley to other line
>accidentally hit guy with trolley that I didn't realize was on the other line

Should I feel bad?

>>50150345
Yes, never use incendiaries indoors.

>>50150747
No, we call you cowboys not because you cause collateral, but because you literally don't care, you don't even apologize and think you're the absolute good guys.

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>>50150857

>>50150857
Yes? why shouldn't you feel bad?

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>>50150732
>unironically being a cuck
>>50150814
>shouldn't you feel bad for killing kids?
No, because it's literally not your fault.

I like how this is going
>Pick my rifle
>Go to a plaza
>Put on a blindfold
>Start shooting
Police can't even arrest me.

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>>50150871
Preventing Bane from starting the fire is the only logical solution.

>>50150920
>willfully misinterpreting the scenarios

just because you can't see the people in the plaza doesn't mean you don't know they're there.

>>50150920
>this is what liberals actually belive

>>50150939
Actually I didn't, scenarios in here were inside of a house, in where is pretty common to see people inside. A city, in where is pretty common civilians live

>>50150345
No, really, why do you think fireballs indoors are ever a good idea? The fireball as described is at least as powerful as a gunpowder explosive. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_injury

>>50150897
>unironically using the word cuck as if it means anything outside the context of sex
>having a degenerate sexual idea as your only metaphorical model through which you understand ethical issues
don't tell me, you're a fucking mong.

>>50150939
>Implying this isn't literally "bomb city, oh man were civilians in there? shit, didn't know"
I was hunting bad people, sadly innocent people were there too, not my fault I couldn't see them

>People literally don't answering the question
It doesn't matter if it was right or wrong, if there was other choice or there wasn't, he should feel bad. You should always feel bad when you take a life nomatter the situation, it literally matters nothing it was an unavoidable situation. Fucking Americans don't undertanding this, do you lack empathy or something?

>>50150992
>fireballs indoors are ever a good idea?
When you're teamed up with somebody with area Protection from Fire. Fireballs are almost always good idea.

Also opening raid with a flashbang or other form of stun grenade is common practice of various task forces.

>>50151055
No, it isn't, fireballs indoors are a bad idea because you can't see what's in other rooms (being civilians or loot) your recklessness is stupid.

>>50151042
>Feeling bad about people that aren't your family or friends dying
Literally all my wuts

>>50151008
No shit it's not your fault, the fault lies with either
a) The people who did a shit intel job and didn't figure out there were civilians there
or
b) The fuckheads who knew there were civilians present and ordered a bombing run anyway

I guess theoretically if the brass is up-front about there being probable civilian casualties on the run and you do it without protesting, you get to be included in the at fault pile, but at that point you've proven to be a shitty enough person that you probably won't feel bad about it.

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>>50150998
>libtard is triggered by the word "cuck"
Like clockwork.

>>50151125
This, not your fault therefore you shouldn't feel bad at all.

>>50150731
Regardless of the specific rules for fireball, it's the DM's fault, not the player's, for declaring a bunch of unknown NPCs to suddenly be dead.

Captcha: zone ignacio. heh.

>Feeling bad about meat bags of dying
Holy shit.

>>50151100
It only matters if your objective is either intel or VIP. In any other circumstances a "no survivor" strategy is a lot more beneficial for the survival of your team.

>>50151055
It's not a stun ball, it's like setting of a Thermobaric bomb, and your not shooting it at a building, that is perfectly reasonable, your setting it off inside a building you are also in.

>>50151196
You can bring the whole structure down on your team, you fucking retardo.

>>50151230
>implying fireball would bring a castle or a dungeon down.

>>50151100
>most magical items cannot be destroyed by mundane means
>gold doesn't lose value when melted down to a formless blob
>neither do most other metals
>looting mundane items is usually not worth it anyway
unless we're after McGuffin that's literally made of paper, or this is hostage standoff there's literally nothing wrong with blasting the place with fireball or three
And we had Rogue sneak in to put Rings of Protection from Fire on hostage before

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>>50151268
Most castles had wooden internal structure so yes, making it a possibility is enough to making it a non desirable tactic. As for dungeons, pic related.

>>50151276
>Fireball
>Mundane mean
Magical fire isn't mundane, a nat1 in a save can totally destroy a magic item being worn, why not one lying on the ground or inside a chest?

>>50151127
Well I can say the white race is getting MUSLIMED and you'll get triggered all the same, its rather pointless and predictable when one sided idiots argue over entry-level philosophical questions, human discourse is such a bore.

>>50151196
In a recent Shadowrun game my team earned more for rescuing the corporate captives they found at the objective then they did for the actual objective, sure we did imply that they could damned well be un-rescued if the corp didn't pay up, but if we'd have killed them before we even figured out who they were we'd have left 30k on the table.

>>50151291
>Giant lich dungeon
>looks like a mine
Nah, senpai, you're mistaking irl structures for magitech structures.

>>50151304
>why not one lying on the ground or inside a chest?
Because chest has shitton of hitpoints.

>>50150345
Why would you?

>>50151304
>a nat1 in a save can totally destroy a magic item being worn
Literally first time I'm seeing this houserule. But yeah, if that's the conditions we're playing under, the strategy should be reconsidered.

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>>50151313
>one sided idiots argue over entry-level philosophical questions
>"I'm gonna go into this thread and call them idiots!"

>>50150345
Yeah, it was an accident but it was still your doing. You should try and be more careful next time.

If I'm in a hurry to get to work and hit someone's dog while whipping out of the driveway, I should probably feel guilty because this messed up dog was my doing. My haste was rational but a moment of extra inspection could have saved some pain. I will follow up my guilt with being more vigilant in the future.

If I was coordinating bombings I would want to avoid collateral damage as much as possible. Innocents will certainly be hurt no matter what I do and that is a grim and regrettable thing. Given the circumstances it doesn't necessarily make me evil so long as I am being attentive in my duty and making sacrifices only when they will be of use.

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>>50151334

>>50151377
>Literally first time I'm seeing this houserule.
It's in the fucking manual retardo, not even a variant rule, it's the default rule.

Automatic Failures and Successes
A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on a saving throw is always a failure (and may cause damage to exposed items; see Items Surviving after a Saving Throw). A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a success.

>>50151317
So what? You were paid unpromised money for risking your life. They could've told you to fuck off, but you got lucky.

>>50151379
hey it's not my fault the opinion forming process in humans is so linear, predictable and boring.

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>>50150487
Correct.

>>50151392
Pretty sure that's to force open not to destroy. Fireball does not force open.

>>50151518
Strength check is force open. Hp reaching zero breaks or destroys an object
Come on stop fishing for personal interpretation

>>50151485
Ironic shitposting is still shitposting

>>50150345
I'm not sure if anyone's picked on this, but... did you have a target, or were you just firing fireballs randomly into empty rooms? in that case, you should feel bad.

However, if the number of lives saved by stopping a target/ targets is >the number of children killed in the collateral, all is well.

>>50151626
>all is well.
You should still feel bad

>>50150870
You know what yeah you're right. We don't give a fck about you. We're rich and don't give a fck about you, your family or your country, feel better? or do you want more gas?

>>50151645
Why?

>>50150345

It depends, how much XP did you get for them?

>>50151672
Thank you, I hate hypocrites.

>>50151645
When I said all is well, I meant the good outweighs the bad, the fact that OP's character killed children is awful, and yes, they should feel bad.

>/pol/ in muh /tg/
You should all feel bad

>>50150684
Fireball doesn't have ongoing damage.

If they died, it killed them instantly.

Died instantly is the best way to go.

That being said, you could totally bring back the children. Save up for it. Bring back the ones who want to come back.

But collateral damage happens.

And fireball doesn't destroy walls and keep going, even if they are thin. Your dm should feel bad, that's not how the spell works.

>>50151762
>And fireball doesn't destroy walls
It totally can, just because your GM homerules they don't doesn't mean they actually don't in the rest of games.

>>50150870
Not American, but some collateral damage happens when you're fighting a war, especially against enemies using guerilla tactics. It's unavoidable.

It was fate. If it was not to be then surely the gods would've intervened.

>>50151125
>>50151174
Underrated posts

>>50151796
That doesn't have anything to do with being unapologetic about it and literally don't care.

>>50151791
Fireball only damages creatures. Right there in the rules.

>>50151821
>Driving my car
>Suddenly breaks don't work
>Go straight into a nursery
>Kill 20 kids and leave 40 handicapped for life
>Lol not my fault so I shouldn't feel bad

>>50151845
>A fireball spell is an explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage
>Unattended objects also take this damage
>Unattended objects also take this damage
>Unattended objects also take this damage
>Unattended objects also take this damage

Also, if a creature rolls a nat1 on the save, roll in the "Items Surviving after a Saving Throw"

>>50151835
What good does beating yourself up about it do?

Was it avoidable and you fucked up?
Was it avoidable and someone else fucked up?
Was the collateral damage unavoidable to take out the target, and if so: did the collateral damage save other lives? Run the numbers.

Feel guilt if you fucked up and caused the collateral damage, sure.
Feel anger if someone else caused the collateral damage through their fuckup.

But if it was unavoidable and you saved significantly more lives than the collateral damage, beating yourself up about it doesn't help anything.

>>50151845
>The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

>>50151835
>unapologetic

What the fuck do you think this is, preschool?

>>50151866
Unless the breaks failed because you didn't maintain your car. Then it's your fault.

But if the manufacturer fucked up, or someone else sabotaged the car?

No, don't feel guilty. Feel angry. Be outraged.

>>50151905
Dunno if trolling or actually a psychopath

Emotions sometimes aren't of any help, but determine if you're fucking human

>>50151042
It's cause america is stupid rich and the problems of the world don't actually affect us. The rich will always fck the poor because they can. and religion will only make it even easier to do so

>>50151915
Nah, I'll dance over the dead bodies, why should I feel anything but happiness of surviving?

>>50151890
>>50151911

See >>50150829
What edition are you guys even playing?

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>>50151866
>Feeling bad about things that aren't your fault

>>50150345
The fact that you have to ask tells me no, YOU shouldn't, but a normal person probably would. Just because its an accident doesn't mean you shouldnt feel bad about it.

>>50151922
Sure, you'll be upset. But if you can think rationally, you'll channel that in the right direction rather than inward self-destructively.

>>50150380
I'm trying to discern whether you're serious.

>>50151940
In that case
>It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren't being worn or carried.

Wooden structures and walls are flammable

>>50151942
anon, there is a good chance you are a sociopath

I don't mean that as an insult, but go see a doctor.

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>>50151922
>being this much of a bleeding heart panzy

>>50151962
>Are you actually feeling bad for killing people? nah, you must be joking
Found the psychopath...or US soldier

>>50151959
>Takes human life
mildly upset
>TRPG comes out with a new edition
UNENDING RAGE

>>50151968
Where does it say there that fireball can destroy walls or wooden structures? fucking read nigga read

>>50150345
>Sorcerer
>Any sense of right or wrong

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>>50152007
Tell me about it

>>50151976
Maybe you just have an excess of estrogen? I'd feel sad if I personally knew any of them, regret even if I didn't, but I wouldn't be upset about something I had no personal responsibility for.

>>50151998
Why should I care if a new edition comes out?

5e is actually pretty okay.

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>>50152001
I would love to live where you are Anon. where wood is steel, doesn't expand upon applied pressure and is nonflammable

>>50152029
You fucking killed them, this isn't about kids dying in Africa, this is you killing kids because an accident and not feeling even sad about it, maybe you have a problem.

>ITT, people on the internet brag about how they could keep their cool in any situation involving the death of other Humans in their direct vicinity

These people are either sociopaths, lying to others/themselves or, with a low but possible chance, are actually quite jaded.

>>50151672
It's funny to me that you're more worried about typing out 'fuck' on an anonymous image board than taking human lives. America in a nutshell, I guess.

Or maybe it's because you're so obviously under aged.

>literally billions of kids in the world
>being sad about a bunch

>>50152029
This This is why the world hates America. Tragic lost of life, and we're only mildly upset

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>>50152087

>>50151998
The way I see it, unless you fucked up or did it deliberately, you're not the one responsible for their deaths, you're another victim.

Intel fucked up? Intel killed them.
Higher up's didn't care and didn't inform you? Higher ups killed them.
Guerillas used them as meat shields and it was the only option to save many more lives? Guerillas killed them.

Shitty situation, to be sure, being used to kill innocent people. I would hope to never be in that situation. But it's cause for righteous anger, not self-loathing.

>>50152070
I didn't kill them though, the scenario given was an event that I didn't cause and couldn't prevent. Why should I feel guilty because I happened to be inside it at the time? Would you feel that way if I was a bystander? someone who heard of it on the news?

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>>50152087
2/10 Troll. Jesus at least put some effort into your shitposting. I mean come on how hard is it to slap on a smug girl pic?

>>50151976
A doctor will never diagnose you as a sociopath, because that hasn't been a relevant medical term in about a century.

>>50151986
Likewise for psychopathy, but you should get your reading comprehension checked.

What the guy I was responding to was saying, is that you *should* feel bad unless you're a US soldier, implying that it's okay for US soldiers to be remorseless killers.

>>50150731
>Gold, silver, bronze
>low melting point
>Just under 1000C
>Temp would have to be exponentially higher to actually melt them in the time frame of 1 second.

rules need to l2rules

>>50152137
>Throw fireball
>Your fireball kills kids
>"I didn't kill them though"
Ok, if you want to be technical, you manslaughter them

>>50152051
Wooden wall meets fireball in 5e.

Yes it catches fire. But the spell doesn't keep going through the wood and into the next room, killing the kids. They're outside the AoE, there's a wall in the way.

The kids are on the other side of the wall and you should have time to get them out (or extinguish the flames) before the fire burns down the building.

>>50152105
>tragic
people die every day
>why the world hates America
that's an odd way to spell "jealous that they aren't the current top shit."

>>50152168
see
>>50151866

>>50152172
The premise didn't say it was the actual fire that killed the kids, fireball destroys wall and the ceiling falls on them is within the parameters of OP's situation

>>50152137
You're the same fag in a gangland shooting that hits a civy while shooting Marty from across the block. Just Thug life

>>50152184
Have fun tomorrow.

No matter who wins, you lose.

>>50151291
Those are metal beams. Notice how they are rusted? Newsflash:Wood doesn't rust.

Depends on your alignment m8. Any good: yes, you just killed children and that's never not going to be reprehensible to a good character, chaotic or otherwise. Any neutral: maybe (with more leanings towards yes), you could either be remorseful for taking their lives, or you could view it as an unavoidable outcome due to ignorance of the children's presence and move on. Any evil (barring lawful with a code against harming certain types of people): no, it's not your fault they were in the wrong place at the wrong time, nor is it your problem, you either chalk it up to collateral damage or chuckle about it later depending on the degree of evil.

>>50152204
Okay.

Well in that case, once he heard the screaming children, he should have tried to put out the flames or get them out, because he would have had lots of time, since the spell did no damage to the walls in that first round.

>>50152218
Are you blind? those are wooden frames.

>>50152212
Jokes on you, when ww3 starts it's more than likely going to be on your doorstep.

>>50152212
>No matter who wins, you lose.
Europoor here, that's how we feel about the whole thing too.

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>>50152184
I think you forgot to post pic related.

Anyways, have fun dying from prevantable diseases and ailments because muh insurance.
Also
>"jealous that they aren't the current top shit."
ayy lmao

>>50152245
>since the spell did no damage to the walls in that first round.
It can totally do, didn't you read the spell?
>It ignites flammable objects in the area that aren't being worn or carried.
If the damage was high enough to destroy that flammable wall it will break and bring the ceiling down

>>50152248
Are YOU blind? They're in V sections, not solid.

>>50152184
Stop trying to ignore that fact you pulled the trigger. You pull the trigger on that fateful day and killed you little brother Steve, whlie you two were playing with Dad's gun. And this whole time you've been mentally dissociating yourself from the event to the point

>>50151866
Isn't favoring your point

>>50152253
If it's on my doorstep it's on yours too.

I'm in the shitty corrupt country right next to your own shitty corrupt country.

Nothing good will come of tomorrow.

>>50152270
Right. Ignites.

But this is d&d. The damage won't start until the following round.

And regular "is on fire" damage should not be able to destroy a wall in 6 seconds, anyways.

>>50152300
If the wall can be destroyed that fast, it's like a Japanese paper wall, not a load-bearing wall.

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>>50152300

... ... ... ... ... ... Using Gamism as an excuse to not feel bad about killing children ok

>>50152327
I'm saying the gm killed the kids, because mechanically speaking they shouldn't have died at all. That's not how the rules work.

The gm decidedly (to be a dick, presumably) to change how the spell works, on the spot, without informing the player beforehand, to kill a bunch of children for cheap drama.

>>50152327
*fictional children who did not exist until you cast said fireball

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To dissect this question a bit there are multiple moving parts here that seem to be tripping people up.

1) Is the action morally justified?
2) Was it necessary?
3) Who is ultimately responsible?
4) Is any given loss of life tragic?
5) Should a person feel bad even if something was not their fault?
6) Is it monstrous of a person not to feel empathy for unneccessary loss of life?

>>50152354
That, too.

I doubt the children were even part of the scenario until the gm decided to punish you for using your abilities by suddenly changing how they work and deciding he wanted to have a bunch of children die unpreventably.

Shitty gm being a shit.

>implying you shouldn't be happy that you've released them from the horror of human consciousness

Do you even nihilism, bro?

>>50150345
1. yes
2. you should ignore it because NO SENSE OF RIGHT AND WRONG

>>50152354
Imagine, you're evil archmage researching your own spells, you come up with great one that really has a lot of power. You want to make sure it won't be used by those goody two shoes heroes against you. Easy - just tweak it a little bit and add a n extra clause - every time the spell is used, before the destructive power applies it will summon d6 of Lawful Good lvl 0 creatures in the spell epicenter. Extra fun when you used it. And reliable failsafe versus all would be heroes.
This doesn't prevent abuse by other evil mages, but you will do something about that later.

>>50152352
>Assuming this was in 5e
Could have been 3.PF in that case it was within the rules.

>>50152381
6) is it monstrous for a person to not feel *guilt * for unnecessary loss of life regardless of their own blame.
7) is it monstrous for a person to not feel *guilt* for unavoidable loss of life?
8) is it reasonable for the gm to change the Mechanics of your abilities on the fly without informing you beforehand?
9) were those children even part of the scenario before you cast the spell?

>>50152327
>>50152352
Whether or not that is how the spell works, it doesn't matter, since it was the GM's decision to put a thin wooden wall right next to a combat and fill it with children.

If there was some hint about the enemies having kidnapped children, or if there were signs of it being a false wall, that's be one thing. But no, one side of this building was just super thin for some reason, and there were a pile of children sitting next to it instead of running or cowering away from the sounds of battle and shouting through this thin wall.

It was GM fiat entirely. If the player had searched nearby beforehand they would have found nothing.

>>50152451
>You open the door and find someone
>I stab him
>Dude why? it was an innocent bystander
>Not my fault, it was the GM who put him in there

>>50152451
>I threw a grenade into a civilian building during a drug raid and some kids in the next room died, should I feel bad?
>no you should blame God for putting those kids in the room and not telling you

He's asking for roleplay advice, stop being autistic

>>50152451
The OP doesn't give enough info of the situation to say if there was any reason for the kids be there, therefore it's stupid to claim the dickness of the GM in any direction.

>>50152498
>Innocent,bystanders loiter behind doors
>Don't try and surrender when a heavily armed man opens it and makes a move to stab them
>Presumably did this in the middle of a ducking dungeon where people standing around would be enemies
>Isn't even similar to the original scenario, since you were actually aware of them.

No. Those kids existed in two states, nonexistant and dead. Gm might have well had them standing next to the enemies with invisibility cast upon them. Would have been just as much of an ass pull 'gotcha' moment

>>50152523
If god teleported the children there at the last second to fuck with you, yeah. I'd blame him.

>>50152628
Use that in court

>>50150829
Don't be silly. That's not what a *real* Fireball looks like. This is:

>Fireball: wizard attack 5

>Daily arcane, evocation, fire, implement

>Standard Action

>area burst 3 within 20 squares

>Target: each creature within the burst

>Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex

>Hit: 4d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.

>Miss: Half damage.

>>50152638
Won't need to, because presumably children would be smart enough to cower away from any mysteriously thin walls upon hearing gunfire, and my commander of the swat raid would have told us not to use grenades and to watch out for children.

It's almost like this sort of thing is rather contrived, depending on odd behavipr, poor construction, and little information going in.

If this was real life? Sure, I'll feel bad. But it isn't. I can call god out for trying to dick around.

>>50152498
>open door
>scry orb appears showing that opening the door triggered a bomb to go off in a preschool in another continent
>don't you feel guilty anon? :^)

>>50150598
Pic unrelated because they knew damn good and well that they'd do the thing they just did it anyway because the Queen wants her scalps.

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>>50152699
4e Fireball is ridiculously weak a power for its level...

>>50152821
It was a pretty intense movie though.

Should you sacrifice an innocent right now in order to prevent the deaths of multiple innocents somewhere in the future?
Under what circumstances is it acceptable for collateral damage to happen, and when said damage outweights any possible benefits?
There was so much underlying narrative running in that movie and so many questions that were asked. Personally, I thoroughly enjoyed it.

>>50150567
>As long as you kill the bad guys you're good to go.

This is what /pol/ actually believes.


>inb4 b-b-b-b-b-but muh strength!
>inb4 b-b-b-b-b-but muh manliness!
>inb4 b-b-b-b-b-but muh fear!

>>50152940
Actually, that's what /tg/ actually believes.

Remember, we are the poster boys for murderhobos who constantly "save" shit by destroying it.

>>50150684
ugh fucking rp fags

he killed some kids maybe lost few thousand xp big deal

>>50153020
>lost xp.
>for killing.
>in d&d.
What are you, new?

I mean children aren't worth very much xp, but they're at least CR 1/8.

>>50150870
And there's nothing you can do about it. Stay powerless.

>>50152248
You can see the bolts in the top right corner of the third beam.

>>50150871
So what happens if bane pulls his lever and I do nothing?

>>50153046
see there you go, no negative consequences at all

he'd have to be an idiot not to kill them

>>50150998
liberals redefine words to suit themselves all the time. we'll do the same as we please.

>>50153080
You will throw Bane out of the plane.

>>50151042
>valuing life
lmfao what a faggot

>>50151230
>implying dungeon masters ever simulate terrain as anything other than a blank grid

>>50151313
The difference is getting triggered over a word makes you a faggot, while getting triggered over the destruction of your own people makes you a good person.

>>50153113
Non-liberal, non-conservative, English degree here.
Stop using words wrong.

At least cuck is a small change. But it still makes you sound like an idiot if you overuse it - just like if you use the phrase "I'm a grown-ass-ed man" we all know you did/are about to do something stupid, or you did/are about to *say* something stupid.

A factoid is a baseless claim presented as a truth, without any facts or evidence to back it up.

Literally does not mean "figuratively, but with emphasis".

The beta male is the second in command, the alpha's right hand man, not the little submissive bitch at the bottom. That's the omega male.

Fuck!

>>50150345
I'd be fucking furious at your intel guy.
You do have a grease monkey or equivalent, right?
You don't just haphazardly destroy stuff, do you?

>>50151626
>d&d
>saving lives
>ever

>>50151835
>implying darkies matter

>>50151866
Correct, you shouldn't.

>>50153244
>d&d
>acting like a professional team of operators.
Kek. What do you think this is, Shadowrun?

my group plays everything like it's shadowrun, but I've learned that nobody else does this.

>>50153239
>English degree
>stop using words wrong reeee
Language is an organic, changing part of our culture. Applying an imperialist approach to linguistics is intellectually irresponsible.

>>50150345
That might be an appropriate reaction in-character, sure.

>>50153427
If you need a new word, coin a new word. Don't just take an existing word and use it incorrectly.

Language can evolve, fine. But it *should* evolve clearly, rather than people pushing it into a more ambiguous and unclear state.

>>50153470
Well it's a reflection of the speakers, who are as ambiguous and unclear as ever.

>>50153470
In a perfect world that's how it should be, but in reality it just can't be that way so trying to argue against it is just a waste of time and thinking.

>>50150345
Yes.
You should feel bad because innocent kids died. Depending on how your character views the event, he might view himself as guilty, but even if you don't think there was any fault in your action you can still feel sorry for the loss of life. It doesn't need to have anything to do with the morality of your action. You can do bad things and feel good about it, or do good things and feel bad about it.

>ITT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9eybY9qFfY

>>50150525
FIREBALL
School evocation [fire]; Level sorcerer/wizard 3
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, M (a ball of bat guano and sulfur)
Range long (400 ft. + 40 ft./level)
Area 20-ft.-radius spread
Duration instantaneous
Saving Throw Reflex half; Spell Resistance yes
A fireball spell generates a searing explosion of flame that detonates with a low roar and deals 1d6 points of fire damage per caster level (maximum 10d6) to every creature within the area. Unattended objects also take this damage. The explosion creates almost no pressure.

You point your finger and determine the range (distance and height) at which the fireball is to burst. A glowing, pea-sized bead streaks from the pointing digit and, unless it impacts upon a material body or solid barrier prior to attaining the prescribed range, blossoms into the fireball at that point. An early impact results in an early detonation. If you attempt to send the bead through a narrow passage, such as through an arrow slit, you must "hit" the opening with a ranged touch attack, or else the bead strikes the barrier and detonates prematurely.

The fireball sets fire to combustibles and damages objects in the area. It can melt metals with low melting points, such as lead, gold, copper, silver, and bronze. If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

>If the damage caused to an interposing barrier shatters or breaks through it, the fireball may continue beyond the barrier if the area permits; otherwise it stops at the barrier just as any other spell effect does.

It works EXACTLY that way dude.
Fireball is the ONLY spell that works that way, on purpose.

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>>50153294
Better than the group expecting the bbeg to turn themselves in. fcking SJWs

>>50154327
Seriously? Wtf is that shit.

No.

We get intel, and figure out who his enemies are, and plan our own assault so it coincides with when the other evils he's pissed off are also beating down his door.

In the chaos, we take his head.

Or you know, something else.

But there needs to be a fucking plan. Based on fucking intel.

>>50154291
Edition? Many of us have been assuming 5e, and that is very not how the spell works in 5e.

Also, as we've pointed out, gm clearly added those silently hiding and waiting to die NPCs after the spell was cast, and that's bs.

>>50150345
I dunno anon. Would your character fell bad about it?

>>50152218
>implying fireballs can't melt steel beams

>>50150870
What does that have to do with cowboys

>>50151042
The problem with that is, what purpose does that guilt serve? You can't change the actions that have already happened, and feeling guilty won't bring those kids back.

Why do you think that guy was casting a fireball, anyway? Do you think he cried for the people he was intending to kill?

Feel bad? Probably. But it literally wasn't your character's fault.

Now if they KNEW that that would happen, guilt is more appropriate. Whether or not it's okay kinda depends, I guess. Mostly on if you had alternative options.

>>50155417
Not that anon but if you wanna go a "pure logic" approach to it, sure, no point. But empathy's a pretty basic social thing.

You could be 100% totally right about fireballing, but it's pretty reasonable to feel bad about it. Whether or not that makes the character hate the villains even more or if it makes them more cautious is up to OP.

>>50155461
I'm not saying that it should be impossible for the character to feel guilt. They should just able to look at that emotional reaction logically later, and try to come to terms with the fact that feeling guilty isn't going to do anything but harm his own life.

Don't pull a Tony Stark in the Avengers Civil War movie and start trying to pull down with you when you feel guilty about one man - one young adult - who you couldn't have possibly known about.

>Wizards feeling bad about the consequences of their actions

Made me laugh.

>>50155505
?? There's still purpose? Caution is often a good thing in D&D games. Having a character trying to find better solutions is great.

And even on that subject, the Tony thing in civil war was about realizing the sheer number of complex human lives destroyed in the process of what they do and the belief that they can, and should, do better.

Not that the idea of just moving on from it is bad, either, it just isn't the "best" option, since there's no objective answers when it comes to character development.

>>50151674
because real people feel bad about doing bad things even if it was an accident that they didn't intend to happen

>>50152264
But I can afford insurance. I'm not a europoor who needs the rest of the nation to pay for me.

Medical costs is literally a non-issue unless you work a shitty minimum wage job or are a nigger.

>>50150345
Children lives are worth less than adult lives so a simple math equation should give you the answer.

>z (number of kids killed) x u (their average age) vs t (number of adults killed) x v (their average age)
>if z x u > t x v you did a bad thing and should feel bad, if z x u < t x v then you did nothing wrong

>>50158016
They're worth more though. The younger a person, then generally the more life they have to live, so killing someone younger means shaving off more potential years than killing an older person. Child lives have more value.

>>50158016
your forgetting potential energy in that exchange

>>50158047
But it takes years for a child to become a productive member of society. The average adult already is one.

>>50159227
The value of human lives are not measured in how relevant to society they are.

>>50150345
What's the enviornment? Why are there kids on the other side of that wall?

If it's something like an orphanage or a building that could reasonably have children in it then yeah, I should have been watching my AOE. If it's somewhere where kids shouldn't be and/or I'd have no way of knowing or suspecting they would be there then I would feel regret that they died but wouldn't take it personally.

>>50159245
Depends on your alignment.

Well, this thread was just terrible. Can we all be done now?

>>50150487
This

>>50150525
Yes it fucking does.

>>50150525
Did they change how fireball works in 5e.
I would not be suprised given all the stupid changes 5e made but as far as i know fireball explicity breaks through walls

>>50150829
It burns things down so its not that far fetched that after incinerating a thin wall it would keep going.

>>50151268
Well yes it could quite easily.
A lot of those old ruins arent very stable and most of the wood is already pretty weak.

>>50151518
Its to destroy.
Its a piece of fucking wood the fireball will obliterate it.

>>50152001
A wall is a flamable object if it is made of a flamable material.
Things dont become magically fire retardent when you use them to seperate rooms.

>>50150345
>>50150370
Yes, on both counts.

Sorcerer dude should feel bad because kids died.

Bomberman should feel bad because kids died and he should have made sure he knew what he was bombing.

>>50154533
>gm clearly added those silently hiding and waiting to die NPCs after the spell was cast, and that's bs.
What possible reason could you have to think that.

>>50152129
>Intel fucked up? Intel killed them.

Maybe you should divert your efforts to making sure 'intel' pays for their mistake, then.

>Higher up's didn't care and didn't inform you? Higher ups killed them.

Maybe you shouldn't be following orders passed down by incompetent higher-ups.

>Guerillas used them as meat shields and it was the only option to save many more lives? Guerillas killed them.

Nah brah, you made the conscious choice to sacrifice their lives in that instance. At least take it on the chin and accept that you're a murderer if you're going to play things off as making tough choices for the greater good.

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>>50159474
>feel guilty
>feel guilty
>feel guilty
Nah

>>50150871
Do I get to bring friends?

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>>50159508
Which one of these guys is you?

>>50152168
Ok Snyder