Imperatus with a backache edition. Mk3 list building: http:

First for join the Discord channel at https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

We've actually got... conversation going. More would help.

I haven't played in a year. Anything new for Skorne / CoC?

>>50134463
Skorne got worse, CoC a terrible new Colossal, but generally got better in Mk3.

They're supposed to get a new theme in the next few months.

>>50134463
>Well, the good news is that CoC hasn't been kneecapped and left to bleed out in a run-down street.

>>50134240
What is this beautiful creature?

>>50134548
New Ret character jack, I think it's Helyenna's.

I can't recall its name offhand, but it's uncomfortably close to Harambe.

>>50134463
Lucant lost Purification.

CoC can induct three focus instead of one.

Played Mordikaar v Wurmwood today. It went a lot better than it could've. I knew my opponent and had barely lost to his Wurmwood before so he let me straight up counter list him. My list was premade, not tailored. I lost 5 Nihilators and a Bellows gobber to a Hellmouth because I fucked up a premeasure. My god that spell should not exist, it's just fucking disgusting, especially when you have access to arc nodes. I didn't cast Hollow all game because what's the point when my Nihilators are being pulled off the table. Instead I spent furying bringing back the Handlers I was Reviving to feed souls to my Soulwards. I lost purely because I didn't roll 4 on 2d6 to kill a solo, so Mordikaar burned a little too much fury finishing the job himself to make a Void Spirit, and a combination of Cassius + a Cannoneer landing on Mord ended it. Game was very close though. Here's my list, it's built to be a second list if I'm expecting infantry.

>(Mordikaar 1) Void Seer Mordikaar [+29]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Despoiler [18]
Nihilators (max) [15]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Void Spirit [4]
Void Spirit [4]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]

>>50134463
>Anything new for Skorne / CoC?
Massive nerfs / no.

>>50134251

The Fuck is Discord, anon?

>>50135076
It's what you get when two frequencies that aren't prominent over/undertones of each other clash.

Una 2 spoilers please?

>>50135485
Birds flank with birds. You pop feat then run all of your birds onto the enemy caster, surrounding them. Then your birds survive the turn because the feat says THEY CANNOT BE TARGETED BY MELEE ATTACKS EXCUSE ME WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK. Next turn the enemy caster dies to birds.

>>50135076
Well, you can go here and see: https://discord.gg/KmXzbwD

It's basically a gaming-oriented IRC thing with desktop and mobile apps and a web interface. I set up a channel to support /wmhg/, but at the moment the channel is seeing a lot more text over it than /wmhg/. Give it a shot.

>>50135764

I don't know why you retards are going so crazy about not being able to melee attack griffons of all things. Do you guys not remember Mk2 Saeryn?

>>50136329
>I don't get why you guys are going so crazy over a ridiculous caster. Don't you remember OTHER ridiculous casters?
Seriously what is your point here? Are you saying that a caster can't be busted because previous busted casters have existed?

>>50136359

>I don't know why you retards are going so crazy

That's my point. Una2 isn't busted just like Saeryn wasn't busted. Only idiots will die from Una's griffons. Saeryn wasn't even considered an assassination caster.

Seriously what is so difficult about blocking Una's griffons from killing your caster? Just crowd the area with models that Una can't scalpel out with her gun.

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>>50135485
Una2 in one image.

>>50136329
How many models do you have to stack around your caster to do that? Remember it doesn't need to kill every model engaging them it just has to engage the warcaster so it takes some hefty free strikes if it walks away. And then it can fly over anything else to get at it again.

These models are also some of the best models in Circle and one of the best Lights in the game because it often trades up against heavies once you give it a buff. And it has so many attacks it can clear infantry reasonably well to boot.

And don't forget she can protect them as she advances up the board. They have stealth and if you miss them with an attack they get to move away. Oh and they have high def.

What's the problem again? A damn near unstoppable model that trades up just got a big buff.

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Relatively new player coming from Khador. Tried to get in to Circle in a local journeyman, they're fun but I don't love the fury system much, and want to start another Warmachine army instead.

I'm tempted by Menoth, they have some insane casters like the High Executioner, and generally look cool. Do they perform well on the tabletop?

Pic related.

>>50137077
Menoth is great.

A lot of Menoth players are salty because Menoth doesn't play exactly like it did in Mk2, and bitch incessantly about it.

Menoth has several great casters, and plays both jackspam and combined arms quite well, as well as packing some of the best (pre-Una2) assassination lists.

>>50134565
Belongs to Issyria. Look at the shoulders and back spikes.

>>50134565
That would make sense, since Malekus and presumably Maddox are also getting Characters

>>50136444
It's not hard to see why she has the potential to be crushing. You must not see high level play or you would see the concern. Pretty evident who the retarded one is, and it's not the people sweating out Una.

>18" run that can ignore free strikes under feat
>Extended control range
>Flank (Mat 8, hit pretty hard)
So what if you can bubble around your Caster with models? You still cannot retaliate under feat, and your going to eat the alpha, clearing said models protecting your Caster. Wind Wall keeps her fairly safe from ranged, and a lot of her models are going to have stealth. Any guns that could kill Una are going to be jammed out by Griffons. I don't think she's unbeatable, but pretending that her game does not present significant challenges is naive and simply dumb as fuck.

Do you guys think that Grind will save Warmachine?

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new to retribution. is this list hot garbage?

I figure halberds hold the line with rifles and battlemages behind it more or less, electromages wander with skeryth to protect him from a mob while he tackles something solid. jacks to flavor.

Not looking for a tourney winner, I'm just rust at warmahordes and new to ret, so I'd like to know if I'm being retarded or if this list looks FUN

>>50137495
your jacks are a mess
If you're taking houseguard take the support solos.

>50117961
>50118607
>50130889

War Room Army

Retribution of Scyrah - New Army

Theme: No Theme Selected
76 / 75 Army

<! OVER POINT LIMIT !>

Kaelyssa, The Night's Whisper - WJ: +29
- Banshee - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 18)
- Phoenix - PC: 18 (Battlegroup Points Used: 11)

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Ghost Sniper - PC: 3
Eiryss, Mage Hunter of Ios - PC: 7

Mage Hunter Infiltrators - Leader & 9 Grunts: 13
Mage Hunter Strike Force - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander - PC: 4
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4


---

GENERATED : 11/06/2016 19:06:32
BUILD ID : 2026.16-11-05

Did a trial run of the spell draft cards today

I used my hexy2 list. Mammoth, razor worm, brute, blood runners, beast handlers, orin, void spirit, gobber chef.

I drafted savagery, star-crossed, paralytic aura, calamity, razor wind, repulsion, far strike, and synergy.

Only did two matches. First was against a friend playing ret. Elara, phoenix, banshee, sentinels, a bunch of soulless stuff, sylys, eiryss1.

Tried to use my razor worm to arc a razor wind into eiryss, but only managed 2 damage. Blood runners did a disgusting amount of damage to his sentinels, and effectively prevented them from being a threat to my mammoth. He had drafted both rage and fury though, and put both on the phoenix to trash my brute and threaten the mammoth. I would've won though, but the banshee slammed a model into hexeris, and then he got shot by eiryss and killed by stuff. Star Crossed kept those blood runners in the game vs his dawnguard for a long time, but he had drafted Eye of Menoth and was eventually able to hit them.

Second game was against a caine player who was running a bunch of hunters, ace, various gun mages, and rangers.

He shot the shit out of my mammoth, but paralytic aura saved it. The mammoth basically just waded up the field taking hits while my paralytic aura brute kept him going. Far Strike let him start hitting hunters with his guns immediately, and though most shots missed he did break their guns. In the end, hexeris used savagery on the mammoth who then punched a hole straight through caine, one-shotting him. Mammoth was down to 8 boxes by the end, and that was after healing him for 5 between my beast handlers and hexeris.

In the second game the razor worm had a great time sitting on a flag, then doing hit and run on rangers trying to contest it and using drag below to get back on the flag. Void spirit managed to get behind cover to survive the approach on Eiryss, then went for the kill.

Turns out mk2 paralyitc aura with star crossed is p good.

>>50137542
A mess how? I haven't played since... fuck, early MK2. Like, testing phases. What jacks would you take?

Right now I see a tough light to act as a bouncer and decent cleave, an arc node for offense if/when needed, and pheonix and manticore are decent face punchers.

I can easily see dropping the arc node for points for solo's, but three jacks seems light. I know the jacks have no particular synergy, but I refuse to buy shyeel jacks on the principle of them being ugly as my butthole. I also have a shitload of infantry, don't know if thats too many.

I mean, 75 is like.. normal army size right? Like I said, been a while.

>>50137794
Your jacks need to trade for other jacks, if they're not trading for a heavy or providing a tool you need then they shouldn't be there.

You need arcanists to make Ret jacks shine. They're insanely good for their points cost.

75 is standard yes. Buy what you want but shit is still shit. You're taking an under powered caster and then not building to deal with anything in the meta.

>>50136329

Saeryn was one of Legion's power casters last edition to the point that she got hit the hardest out of any caster in Legion when MK3 happened.

>>50137890
Whoops, meant house vyre jacks look like ass. I like the Shyeel ones... though you make it sound like they all blow or something. Though I did forget about the arcanists. That's fucking dumb of me. I also don't know dick about Thyron being UP or OP, he just looked kinda fun and visually appealing. What jacks would you sport with him? Imperetor seems like an obvious choice, and I thought pheonix and manticore would be doing solid lifting.

And as someone who hasn't played in like, fuck, three years, maybe more? The meta could be bring naked gobbers for all I know atm. I don't want to sound indignant, but I could you a little more input than 'its shit' if you don't mind. You care enough to tell me a little bit, so I know you don't want me to fuck off altogether. I think.

I mean, is the meta like MtG style deathmissile on turn two or forfeit now?

>>50138175
Mark 3 hit, a lot of runs changed.

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I pulled the trigger and decided to start my second faction and picked convergence. I picked up lucant and a couple jacks (inverter, conservator, and corollary) to start. While I wait to build up to a full list, would playing 0-25 pt games get me slaughtered compared to other factions in low point games? Also, I don't want to pick up PA until I get some solos and units I'm guessing. Or should I aim for the PA first?

Does lucant actually want a prime axiom? I would think you'd save that for the casters that aren't RAT 3. Lucant seems mainly to run with a bunch of inverters, conservators, and TEPs.

>>50138466
So PA isn't required with Lucant.

Low point games are super good for Lucant, I think, he's got an incredible kit for fighting low level fights.

>>50137495
Thyron will never cast most of his spells in most games. You need a lot of Defensive Tech to make him not die. House Shyeel Magister, Aspis, and the Pain Knight are a good place to start. Secondly, ignore his Kamen-Rider stabby image. Take guns. All the guns. cast Spellpiercer. Ignore Windwall. Ignore Menoth. Blow things off the table. If you like Halberdiers, add at least one Thane and two Heavy Rifle Teams. See if you can take Sentinels and/or Invictors. Thyron cannot get personal work done until the very end of the game. Protect him. Also Mage Hunter Assassins are good Storm Rager Targets. You also need Sylys Wyshnalyrr in that list. Griffons aren't bad, but the Banshee is better for him than a manticore or Phoenix.

>>50138514
Lucant doesn't need one, but he's fine with it.

Rat 3 can be mitigated quite a bit in faction, especially since heavies don't usually have too insane of defense.

>>50137495
Retribution Army - 75 / 75 points

(Thyron 1) Thyron, Sword of Truth [+27]
- Banshee [18]
- Aspis [6]
- Griffon [8]
- Sylys Wyshnalyrr, The Seeker [4]
- Aspis [6]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Mage Hunter Assassin [4]
Mage Hunter Assassin [4]
Narn, Mage Hunter of Ios [6]
Heavy Rifle Team [4]
Heavy Rifle Team [4]
Dawnguard Invictors (max) [16]
- Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard [4]
House Shyeel Artificer [5]
Houseguard Thane [4]
Ghost Sniper [3]

This is not an optimal list but it should work better than the one you posted. Put Assail on the Banshee, it works on the gun. Keep the House Shyeel Artificer and Aspis close. Narn and the MHAs are our Storm Rager targets, they will kill people. Sentinels are great turn-by turn shooting. HRTs are disgusting and the Thane can hand out Stealth ingoring to one of them a turn. Griffon screens. Let your army do the lifting and clear zones for Tyrone to dominate. Park him on a hill if you can.

>>50137495
Thyron does not love jacks, and his Field marshal isn't that great. He needs at least one and probably 2 shield guards and an Artificer even with Blade Shield to survive where he needs to be (in zones/on flags). Reach jacks are preferable, and for a heavy the Banshee is probably best, as Assail works on its slam cannon. Imperatus is also good with him, but is extremely expensive and is dependent on not getting hit with Grievous Wounds. Skeryth Issyen is not as good as he used to be but is now a shield guard. I prefer Narn and Mage Hunter Assassins as Storm Rager targets: they are more mobile and what they get to dies. The also threaten casters.

>>50134620
>no (you)s on a post this old and high up in thread
have a (you) sad anon, have a god damned (you) you poor bastard

>>50134620
>>50138837

It seemed a competent enough battle report, I read it, put some stuff to memory, and kept scrolling.

If we're making specific comments, I'm wondering how Cassius was still alive- that list looks like it ought to be capable of killing something at all costs if it absolutely needs killing at all costs.

While we are on CoC, is your basic -bitch Synth+Jacks list workable for pickup games?

>>50139658
You can build Syntherion to be very take all comers, because his kits supports his jacks doing everything.

Just bring a variety of the jacks to cover the various situations and you've got a pretty solid list to cover most any matchup.

>>50139658
Yeah synth is just fine for pickup games. Just for serious games people tend to take mom instead.

>no convergence of cyriss in mk3 rulebook

Fucking why I wanted to see the lore as a noobie.

>>50139957
They're not a core faction

>>50140416

Why exactly? Are they just a fringe faction or something then?

>>50140609
So fluff on CoC.

Worship of the Maiden Cyriss is a small, but decently well known faith in the world.

However, at the core is a cult known as the Convergence, who wish to transform the planet into a mechanical vessel for Cyriss to inhabit.

They are incredibly secretive, and the most technologically advanced of the groups. For now they're moving quietly, attempting to set the world up for their goals while avoiding open war with any of them. They've made some pretty serious acts, but between the fact that not a lot of people know who they are and their far superior technology, they've avoided being hit back.

>>50140733
desu I don't understand why Circle isn't at all-out war with them for what cyriss is doing to leylines.

>>50140801
They absolutely are.

But Circle had bigger things on their plate, and now they're kind of fucked.

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>>50140801
Because the Circle simply can't afford to. As far as the factions go, the Circle is one of the smallest in terms of physical manpower (not to say that Cyriss' ranks are booming either). Also, unlike the Convergence, the Circle is beset on all sides by issues plaguing the natural world and those who would seek to abuse it. Cryx and the Legion continually defile the land. Cygnar and Khador in particular strip it of resources. The Protectorate actively hunts down anyone who might have ties to the Wurm. Both the Thornfall Alliance and Blindwater Congregation are hit or miss on their dealings with the Circle, as well as the Trollkin. That besides, other groups like the Retribution and Skorne would kill Circle members on sight without hesitation.

By comparison, because the Convergence has so few holdings, they're usually only at threat when they're out in the field. The Circle is always out in the field, and they're fighting a constant battle at all times.

It ain't easy being green.

>>50140733
Technologically superior to other cyriss groups that is,

On the main stage cygnar, ret, and those pirate skeletons are superior to the convergence in one aspect or another.

Their material science, engineering prowess, mimiturization, and blending of arcane forces with clockwork are astounding. But their religious hangups about creating cortexes and the dislike of gunpowder leads them to some really silly decisions.

>>50140959
Na, they're straight up the most advanced faction.

We're dealing in fantasy terms, so the lack of gunpowder is of no downside, and their cortex thing doesn't really affect them since they don't really deploy standing armies to the degree that the other factions do.

Vectors are vastly superior to other shit in just about every fashion

>>50140989
Nemo's lightning manipulation tech is more advanced than Cyriss's. And Ret definitely has Cyriss beaten in some aspects.

>>50141007
Nope. Nemo even notes in Dark Convergence that he's way behind CoC tech.

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>>50140989
Complex and intricately designed doesn't necessarily mean better. Iosan myrmidons and tech is absurdly advanced compared to most tech used by the Iron Kingdoms as well. But in a straight fight, a Juggernaut or Ironclad has decent odds in beating the shit out of a vector or myrmidon equivalent.

>>50141103
Yeah the real advancement for myrmidons isn't raw strength or armor, it's that they have literally infinite power. No coal needed, and no recharging needed like cyriss energy storage. They can run out of juice from heavy fighting, but just need time to charge back up. And they have enough recharging capacity to be able to march indefinitely.without rest.

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>>50141139
And functional kinetic shielding. And several of them mount weaponry that play havoc with the laws of physics.

>>50141172
>>50141139

Fucking stop. You cunts make me wanna play elves when I wanted my first army to be steam russians.

>>50141172
Only some of them have those things. Infinite energy is the main achievement.

>>50141103

Yeah, most of the various factions are the most advanced in SOME area.

Ios' mastery of kinetic energy is unsurpassed, allowing them to manipulate fundemental forces that other factions only dream of.

Cygnar has it's brand new electrical technology that is fueling a revolution in energy development.

Cryx turns souls into the fuel for warjacks. Nuff said.

Even Khador can claim they've got an edge on most of the others in heavy industrial manufacturing. They got the first Colossal out and made leaps and bounds in the development of fully automatic cannons with it (Not just gattling guns). They may not work with magitek as much but solid, strong non-magical development itself is an area of note.

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>>50141230
Yes, and you're trying to argue that the Convergence is, overall, the most advanced faction. The fact that Ios can produce such powerful tech and weapons isn't diminished by the fact that a Manticore's primary weapons are glaives on its arms, or that a Griffon's armament is a halberd and shield.

That's like me arguing that the Convergence isn't advanced because their base-line heavies are equipped with piston-spikes+face mortar, a buzz-saw launcher and manipulator hand, or a ram and flail as weapons. Because those are weapons even Cygnar and Khador could produce.

Convergence isn't the only kid on the block with fancy toys, nor is it the undisputed best. Most Warmachine factions have their own tech-specialties.

>>50141361
Not the same person.

>>50137495
Thyron is hot garbage who needs half his lists to be defensive tech if he wants to survive even two turns in.

>>50140989
>Na, they're straight up the most advanced faction.

Ret have a gun that literally deletes spacetime within a large blast zone and robots with infinite energy batteries, your argument is invalid.

>>50141751
CoC has a machine can that levitate a 75 ton jack indefinitely and also have infinite energy batteries.

>>50139957
I found this series entertaining. They have an episode about the Convergence early on:
http://museonminis.com/?s=fluffisode

>>50141770
>also have infinite energy batteries

They don't though. They have infinite energy batteries within a small radius. Vectors run out of power pretty quick if they leave the charged zone.

Also, while Ret don't bother levitating their stuff, they instead put equivalent inertia nullifying technology into their forcefields.

Convergence are not the most advanced faction. They have some interesting technologies, but they lack a lot of what other factions have, and when it comes down to it a lot of what they do is just cleverly disguised necromancy that nobody in the cult wants to talk about.

>>50141885
>Vectors run out of power pretty quick if they leave the charged zone.

Vectors can run for days without recharge in normal mode, and have some of the highest combat times of any jack in the setting outside the fields.

The fields also extend for miles, and they can set up relays to have it go even further.

>>50141310
This guys got it right.

>>50141995
Yes, and the beardy elves still have them beat in that area. And that's saying nothing of their superior metalergy (given CoC is the runner up in this respect, the prime axiom attests to that.

Convergence ballistic weaponry is all fucked as well, a lot of effort spent on expensive wound springs and coils where a bursting shell would suffice ,and with a little convergence flair, transform into an even more devastating weapon.

Their orthodoxy holds them back in great measure, even if it is good quality control on the short term.

>>50137583
Oh you're that you from a couple days ago that I was telling not to use a Razor Worm. You cheated, there's no way to get Far Strike on a Mammoth this edition.

>>50142186
Elves don't have them beat in that.

Elves jack combat times are fucking terrible.

Yes, their shit runs forever in passive modes, but that trade off is absolute inability to make protracted engagements. The tech is limited, not better.

And the not using gunpowder thing is honestly just stupid, and a lazy excuse to not let them have guns. It shouldn't exist.

>>50142199
>Spell draft

He had paralytic aura and savagery too.

>>50141310
Don't forget Skorne. They have better Hoksune than anyone else.

>>50142242
Savagery explicitly states you can't shoot while it's on you, and Paralytic Aura doesn't exist in Mk3. Wait were you playing Mk2 for this?

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Who here /una2with2zapdos/?

>>50142334
How do you spell hurricane?

>>50142254
Wasn't me, but it was a spell draft so who knows what the fuck was put on those cards.

>>50142248

A weapon to surpass metal gear there.

>>50142334
People who hate to win.

>>50142408
I believe it's spelled f u c k U n a r a w

>>50142234
>but that trade off is absolute inability to make protracted engagements

This has never been stated. Myrmidons have combat runtimes depending on how much power they use during that runtime. They can generally fight a bit longer than normal warjacks, and then go forever on non-combat orders. It should be noted that they do this while powering a kinetic forcefield, as well as multiple magical weapons and subsystems, both melee and ranged, some of which would require IMMENSE amounts of power to work even by our standards. Do you realize how much energy is required to turn sound into a solid construct-like force the way Discordia and the Banshee do it? Protip: we'd pretty much need to turn off everything else in America to pull it off.

This is frankly far superior to vectors, which literally have zero logistical capability due to being dependent on static emplacements.

>And the not using gunpowder thing is honestly just stupid

It's meant to be stupid. The Convergence are a religious order with a lot of scriptural red tape. They're not meant to be perfect, and they're not meant to be the best at everything, despite what you seem to think.

>>50142738
The main problem with Retribution technology seems to be their lack of innovation. All their tech was literally handed to them by their gods, so of course they have the edge in that department. Except the everyone else is starting to catch up with them, and in some instances of specific pieces, out pace them technologically.

>>50142850
Pretty much.

They only started inventing new stuff when they had to fight Everblight (which is what, a little over a hundred years ago now?). Vyre and Shyeel are making tons of new stuff now, but obviously, houses like Rhyslyrr and Silowuyr are kinda suspicious of all this new shit.

>>50142981
It's magic. They don't have to explain shit.

One of the cause that Ret technology didn't evolve is that they remained isolated for a very long time.

They are just returning to innovation cause of War and their need to adapt to new foe.

>>50142850
>All their tech was literally handed to them by their gods
That's at best hyperbole. House Vyre and Shyeel have done plenty of development since then, explicitly. The gods haven't given them anything for thousands of years.

>>50142334
Hello High Elf pheonix!

>>50145611
I see the similarities. Both have wings.

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>>50145611
Greetings to you friend!

So. With Errata coming in more or less 2 months what are you hopping for ?

Me personaly that PP doesn't confirm that they are going to shit.

I hope that the things that will be nerfed will remain usuable and not sended to oblivion.

I feel like PP can't really do wrong this time. The player base is putting high hope in this Errata especially after the balance mess that MKIII created.

If they do wrong WarmaHorde will lose a lot of players.

Another thing is that they didn't want to playtest with comunity because (outside the fact that the great part of the player doesn't understand the basic of game balance) they risk to sell few things in the beta period, but as a paradox at least in my circle everyone is afraid to buy things knowing that Errata and Theme Force are coming so PP created the situation that they wanted to avoid, but without the benefit of the playtest.

>>50142254
I didn't shoot while savagery was on him. I drafted far strike as an animus and gave it to the mammoth.

I used PP's mk2 draft deck and replaced all of the mk2 wordings on spells with mk3 wordings, then for the spells that don't exist anymore I left them in unchanged. Since a Mk3 official deck doesn't exist.

>>50146117
>balance mess

I hardly think it's a total mess. The game is way more balanced than it was in MKIII, the factions that are a little less awesome have just been switched around.

I honestly think there shouldn't be much nerfing, just a bit of buffing for Cryx and more buffing for Skorne.

>>50146117
Nerf Sloan, Storm Lances, Haley2, Mad Dogs, Harkevich/Kodiak interaction, Winter Guard Rockeeters, High Reclaimer, Madrak2, Wurmwood, Una2 (lol).

Buff warbeasts and Skorne in general.

>>50146190
Man internal balance of the Faction sucks.

With MKIII people hoped that the times of Factions carried on the back of 1/2 caster and some Theme Force would end.

Instead we got the opposite situation. All Horde depend on a bunch of Caster, Warmachine army have terrible internal balance.

The only thing of worth is that the Top caster of MKIII are les sof a problem than the top caster of MKII, but I think that we can admit that MKII for how flawed balanced army was with the latest book was going in a nice direction. Direction that feel like totaly erased with MKIII.

I really like the basic core rules of MKIII (except something like throw), but are minor flaws, but for army balance it feels like a step back.

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>>50142234
You say that myrmidon combat times are terrible, but they can run on average 2 1/2 to 3 hours at PEAK combat strength. By comparison, all Khadoran 'jacks besides Kodiaks and named 'jacks run for less than an hour before going cold, and Cygnaran 'jacks tend to be only a little more efficient (some of their lights can go over an hour, hour and a half tops). Yeah a myrmidon is fucked if its kept operating at combat levels for over 2 hours, but 'jacks are screwed in less than half the time. And sure, recharge times are lengthy, but unless you're behind a solid defensive line trying to refuel a warjack in the field is suicidal.


Besides. The Retribution isn't about fighting protracted battles. If they're fighting a large-scale or extended conflict, something went horribly wrong.

>>50146117
>Me personaly that PP doesn't confirm that they are going to shit.
This more than anything. The past year was pretty jarring.

>>50146660
You've hit the nail on the head, units that can operate silently, have unlimited range, and have comparable engagement time to jacks and vectors represent a massive technological advantage.

boys, Im planning a return to warmachine.

I've heard Trenchers are finally good again, any suggestions on how I can run my dream Cygnar-at-Verdun army?

>>50142738
Given that the fluff for Force Wall involved a Convergence Warcaster bringing warjacks to the Iosian border, or near to it, they clearly have plenty of operational capability.

And they actively fight Circle over leylines, something hey could never manage if they had no ability to project their forces.

The floating vectors, including the Colossal, have combat runtimes that are insanely high OUTSIDE of the fields,

>>50147885
Trenchers are pretty much good everywhere.

Haley1 and especially Haley3 *really* like them.

>>50146208
>Buff warbeasts and Skorne in general.
- Enrage no longer grants +2STR, but now grants a free charge
- All Skorne beasts now gain +PS2 through a combination of STR and POW increases

Bang, one of Skorne's huge problems is fixed.

>>50147885
They're also really good with Stryker/Caine1.

>>50146258
Yep.
I agree that mk3 isn't bad per se; it's just that we have the same situation as in mk2, but with different models in the top spots.

I would have liked to be able to use pretty much any faction models and at least be able to play an interesting game. But no, fuck that kharchev +15 mad dogs. oh yeah that's fun.

>>50146894
i second this.
One slip up (and it was a fucking big one) we can allow, because we want PP to do well.
But if they make a fucking balls of it again, they might as well be scuttling their own ship.

>>50148100
Convergence can project their forces so long as they can establish a field somewhere.

Vectors have an operational time measured in the hours beyond their fields. Luckily, they have a lot of secret outposts all over Immoren - much like Ret. Which I gotta say is somewhat silly, the sheer number of Convergence and Ret conclaves hidden across the IK seems pretty OTT. It almost sounds like there's more elves outside Ios than in it.

Would I be an asshole for using different versions of a caster as a proxy of sorts? For example if I used my Hexeris1 as Hexeris2, would I be a faggot? Or if I used Zaadesh1 as Zaadesh2.

>>50148294
Yeah, this is my problem.

Obviously some shit is supposed to get better once it's given a bunch of add ons. But there are certain warcasters that are just... fucking hell man, why? Guys like Sturgis, Thyron, etc. These dudes need a complete overhaul, because they're so far below the competitive warcasters that they're almost a joke.

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>>50148336
They have combat operational times measured in hours beyond the field. The sustained runtime is considerably longer.

>>50148349
Probs wouldn't fly in a tournament, but for a friendly game anyone who complains isn't worth playing with.

>>50148349
You'd be a douchebag for doing that.
There are a few casters that can get away with it, usually if not always the warcaster unit ones which make good stand ins for their prime version.
For example zerky2 stands in fine for jerky1 and doesn't look like lady gaga

grim 2 from hunters grim makes a good replacement for grim angus1.

but using say sorscha1 and then reminding the opponent once you're halfway through the game that it's actually sorscha2, well let's just say that in bird culture that is considered a dick move.

>>50148699
dank meimei faggot, but dubs = truth

>>50148427
That's the same as Ret warjacks bruh. Up to 3 hours at peak combat operations, more than that at lesser effectiveness.

>>50148699
>You'd be a douchebag for doing that.
Why? Everything relevant on Hexeris1 is the exact same as Hexeris2, same with Zaadesh1 and 2. Same size base, same dude, same weapon. All that changes are abilities, feats, and spells. It's technically a proxy, but there's zero way it could ever be confused owing to how you'll never have 2 Hexeris' or Zaadeshs on the table at the same time, so the policy of "any conversion must be clearly identifiable as the intended model" couldn't be any more golden.

How is that being a douchebag exactly?

>>50145692
The modle is just more dynamic and textured than the GW one. I imagine its better for transporting as well.

>>50148699
>but using say sorscha1 and then reminding the opponent once you're halfway through the game that it's actually sorscha2, well let's just say that in bird culture that is considered a dick move.
As if anyone recognises more than half a dozen casters outside their own faction on sight.

>>50148349
It's explicitly against the rules in official tournaments fwiw.

>>50149408
What if I said that my Hexeris2 was a conversion that just LOOKED like Hexeris1? Is it possible to disprove that?

>>50148744
The non-floater heavies maintain combat times 4.25 hours, while the lights can put up 5 hours.

>>50149421
It looks too much like Hexxy2, models can't be mistaken for other models.

>>50149658
Any Hexxy can be mistaken for the other Hexxy anyway. Like the only difference between the two is that Hexxy1 has metal shit on his back, and Hexxy2 has bone shit. You could literally magnetize the shit that goes on their backs. Either way I was only gauging opinions in regards to casual play. Maybe one of our informal Steamrollers at best.

>>50149694
Yes, they're not exactly totally different, but there's enough difference to spot them apart across the table.

The extra armor, the two hand vs one hand, the looking up vs looking down.

>>50149744
>The extra armor, the two hand vs one hand, the looking up vs looking down.
All things that could be different under the conversion rules.

>>50149774
Look man, you can debate with me all you want, but it's the TO who decides.

And if the TO looks at the model and goes "That's Hexxy2, no." then you're done.

>>50149795
What if the TO mistakes my caster for another, refuses to believe me about who it is, and no one in the room has internet access?

>>50149808
Then you're fucked.

TO has final say.

>>50149815
Look man I just can't fit any more models in my case when my full army is inside so don't really want to buy any more.

>>50149844
I'm not the one to be reasoned with, man.

>>50149859
Just let me use Hexeris1 as Hexeris2 dude come on

>>50149871
Nope not our call.

>>50149647
...Again, so can Ret 'jacks.

The function at optimum capacity for roughly 3 hours before being less effective for the following few hours, but still combat worthy. Then they don't need to power down at all and can move on to elsewhere.

You really need to stop pushing the idea that Convergence is literally the best at all technologies. It's just not true, niggas aren't even allowed to use gunpowder, and their soul printing technology is pretty much just inferior Cryx necromancy that relies on excruciating pain to keep the soul tethered to Caen.

>>50150442
>You really need to stop pushing the idea that Convergence is literally the best at all technologies. It's just not true, niggas aren't even allowed to use gunpowder, and their soul printing technology is pretty much just inferior Cryx necromancy that relies on excruciating pain to keep the soul tethered to Caen.

The is is literally the point of the faction, by the way. Like all the villain factions, they're doing it wrong.

Khador think they're making a strong empire but all they're doing is weakening humanity against Toruk and others. Retribution pretend to know the truth but in reality they're angry zealots with nothing but conjecture. Legion fangirl out over being on with and loved by Everblight when in reality they're just sacrificing their free will. Convergence preen over their technological superiority, but a lot of their stuff is just reskinned versions of what other people have and their dogmatic faith is constantly holding them back.

>>50150540
Well at least menithes get their shit (mostly) done. Can't argue with a scrutator (maybe if you are a paladin)

>>50150442
3 hours is where you top out, man. Most of the Ret jacks sit at 2-2.5 hours. Including the Crab jacks, who aren't running those shields.

And remember, Convergence jacks are also running their own complex technologies, even the quad jacks run weight displacement systems to negate their mass.

>>50150540
It's more accurate to say that what everyone else has they likely got from a Cyriss worshipper inventing it.

Even Ret had to steal most of their shit from humans.

>>50150709
>It's more accurate to say that what everyone else has they likely got from a Cyriss worshipper inventing it.

Cyriss explicitly got their soul imprinting basics from Cryx.

>>50149149
I dont think he did understand you.
Yes, you can surely do that in friendly games, just tell your opponent which caster the model is representing.
>>50150540
Lol even if Everblight is undeniably evil, how can you call, well, Khador or Convergence evil? They are pretty much grey. Menites are evil in a way, Cygnar is, Trolls are, hell, name me one "good" faction.

>>50150947
Convergence are evil. They want to suck everyone's souls out and put them into remote controlled machines. It doesn't matter how deluded they are about this, they still evil.

Khador and Menoth are about as evil as Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia. There are okay individuals within their systems but the systems are pretty damn horrible.

Cygnar is morally ambiguous.

Trolls are squeaky clean.

>>50151013
>Khador and Menoth are about as evil as Nazi Germany or Stalinist Russia
So they've legitimately been oppressed by a treaty made decades earlier by a bunch of Jews, then had the act of rushing to defend Danzig from Polish occupation interpretated as an act of aggression?

>>50151241
/pol/ pls go

>>50151013
>Trolls are squeaky clean.

Sure, the guys who are pretty much split between "rape, kill and eat everything in the world, not necessarily in that order," and "kill everyone who threatens our freedom" are squeaky clean.

I mean, what's just eating wounded, undefended soldiers and civilians alive piece by piece? Emptying entire swathes of countryside of animals and parts of the greenery to feed gigantic monsters with unending muchines? Trolls are just misunderstood!

Trolls are just as dirty and scumbaggy assholes as the rest of them

>>50151361
Skorne are the only morally good entity in Immoren.

>>50151013
It's actually never stated what CoC intend to do with everyone. Transference is an honor, not something they force on people, and it takes most people their entire lives to earn a clockwork body.

>>50150944
Oh yea, they did. They absolutely are founded on a secret Lucant has kept.

The dumbest part about Dark Convergence was when Aurora just flat out admits to something she shouldn't even know.

>>50151361
There was also that "derail and eat a train full of wounded" thing.

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Posted by a member of the Legion of Everblight facebook group. Enjoy!

>>50151387
They're only good on the moral scale because they don't have any and are not just aware of it, but proud of it.

They frequently organize parades where they parade around their pride on the subject, to the point where a rational person starts getting overwhelmed.

So how's about some of this wine filled with the seeds of a sentient flesh eating plant that will chase you around and constrict you on thorny vines and then feed on your bodily fluids while you're still alive for a good while? It's simply FABULOUS~!

>>50151563
It's your fault for needing to drink at all you un-Hoksune faggot. You some kind of little bitch who needs food and water to survive? LOL.

>>50151361
Eh, they have one asshole in Doomspeaker, and a lot of his comrades find him distasteful as fuck.

Meanwhile, Khador throws parties for the guy who threw insane Orgoth experiments at civilians, and Menoth does out of its way to torture and immolate anyone that either doesn't believe in their god or was born of the dhunian races.

>>50151407
Don't the Cyrists want to wipe out all organic life and turn the planet into a giant computer, or something?

>>50146660
Actually, I'd say that in many situations, a coal burning jack has the advantage. If you need to refuel one, you can draw it back from the front to refuel it and send it back or take advantage of lulls in the battle to refuel and rearm. A coal burning jack can be returned to a full fuel load in short order while a Myrmidon will take a much longer time to recharge. In a protracted engagement that can prove disastrous.

It's the difference between recharging an electronic device and swapping out the batteries. Rechargeable devices are more efficient in the long run but you can't just swap out the batteries when it runs out of juice.

>>50151747
They do. But what they're going to do the the people, no one knows.

>>50151747
No. They want to realign the ley lines to allow Cyriss to manifest on Caen. I don't know where people are getting the "wipe out organic life" bullshit.

So have PP said ANYTHING specific about specific models in the upcoming errata?

>>50152476
Not that we know of, no.

After 10 years of Bushwackers being sub-par, though, I'm not holding out much hope for the game getting much better.

>>50146208
>nerf haley2

WHY? She's already one of the most average casters in Cygnar's stable at the moment. Sloan, Haley3, Caine2 and Siege are already far stronger than she is. What more do you want them to do?

>"all wording for Haley2's feat has been replaced with "Haley2 has no feat, now you can stop crying""

>winterguard rocketeers

Could probably do without being able to be attached to rifle corps, but they're perfectly fine how they are, you're just shit.

Can someone explain to me Menoth's relationship with arcanists?

Warcasters and other arcanists are looked down upon because of it coming from Thamar's gift, but as being a necessary evil. That's why vassals of menoth are arcanists that are being enslaved and tortured, sometimes willingly, because of their gift.

But so, how does an arcanist become hierarch? And why is the avatar of menoth's will on Caen manifested as a powerful warcaster?

>>50151526
Looks entirely too healthy/unblighted. 2/10 would not allow to lead my horde of stompy landsharks.

>>50156185
Think D&D.

Characters in the setting or either clerics or wizards, they either get their magic from a divine or arcane source.

The entirety of the Menite warcasters are clerics, not wizards, they don't have inborn magical talent. They gain their abilities from Menoth gifting them.

And there was a big social issue with the use of warjacks, which were supposed to be heretical. It's why they're so obsessed with praying over them. There's hints that Menoth seems fine with using them, though, such as the Avatar and their newest jack being divinely blessed.

>>50156242
That doesn't really make a lot of sense to me. If Menoth can just make warcasters, why didn't he do that during the orgoth occupation? Priest magic was way more limited and way less powerful. And to interact with a cortex you need to have the gift of magic.

>>50156268
Because Menoth didn't give a shit about the Orgoth occupation, and his priests stayed out of it.

The Orgoth worshipped Menoth as well, or at least acknowledged him as their creator.

One of the big problems with Menoth is that he's always been a big picture god, he doesn't really care that much about humanity, so long as they worship him and not the Wurm. Menoth's only real priorities are to maintain the world and to fight the Wurm, he doesn't care about anything else.

It's one of the reasons Menoth worship went downhill so drastically during the occupation. Menite priests basically did fuck all to help people, while the twins were doing everything in their power to help people resist and fight.

Morrow got such a great rep because he actually gives a shit about humans beyond their worship for him.

>>50156268
Because 'priest magic' is really Arcane magic. The Protectorate just kinda plug their ears and claim its from the big guy.

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Gatorfag here. Haven't really played my Minions since the new edition (Mercs instead) because I'm having a massive sad over Posse. They kinda got me into the faction and they got nerfed three, possibly four times. That said, I'd like some list feedback. Patiently waiting on theme lists.

Rask - 27
-Wrassler [16]
-Spitter [15]
-Blindwalker [12]
Posse [Max] [18]
Shamblers [11]
Swamp Gobbers [2]
Mistspeaker [4]
Totem Hunter [6]
Sacral Vault [18]

I used to run more Posse, but they seem like a bad investment now. I have no pigs and couldn't get any if I ordered them. Mistspeaker is for Tutrle and cute tricks with Rask. Posse for Fury, Shamblers for saccing, Vault for the typical Vault stuff. I feel like Gunlines are going to kick my ass in general.

Maelock -28
-Wrassler [16]
-Swamp Horror [15]
-Blindwalker [12]
Posse [Max] [18]
Posse [Max] [18]
Shamblers [11]
Crocdoc [4]
Crocdoc [4]
Totem hunter [6]

I want to brick, but PP won't let me. Everybody except the hunter should get both halves of the feat, ARM 22 5 boxes is the best brick I can get. I want to know if Melock's worth bricking with Posse, or if I should just switch to Barnabas Pop n Drop with Croaks, turtles, and pigs. Barnabas can also puddle jump, solving the gunline issue. I really wish I had Iron Flesh, maybe my MAT wouldn't have taken a hit.

>>50156568
No, it absolutely isn't.

It is a huge plot point of the setting that arcane magic did not exist until Thamar gifted it to humans.

>>50156755
*Thamar and Morrow

>>50151013
Okay, lets count them evil. Then lets count everybody evil.
Circle? Oh boy the human sacrifice, my favourite!
Khador? Stalinist russia as you have mentioned yourself.
Menoth? Well they are burning people alive and stuff but pretty much only because humans do not tend to obey their god-creator and hunt down the Wurm. And their god-creator was made to hunt down Wurm. So they are pretty much his inheritors are servants and are treated as such. Which isnt nice either but it have its explanation.
Skorne? No comment, their culture is made of torture.
Trolls? Wow lets eat the wagon full of wounded soldiers. Alive. Oh we are actually sort of missing Wurm children who were trying to make a whole world into Wurm's playground. Nice.
Cygnar? Well those fucks are at least as dirty as Khador.
LoE and Cryx? Dont get me started.
Minions? Kill da humans pigs and sacrifice da humans crocks. Choose your fucker.
The only faction which is pretty cool is Mercs.

>>50156842
Thamar.

Morrow had his priesthood actively resist, but whatever caused arcane magic to come about, Thamar did it alone.

I don't really know why people say that Khador is stalinist other than it's Russia.

There are more eras of Russian history than the 1930s. The Empress is a shrewd leader that doesn't show the kind of paranoia that Stalin did. She's a strong leader, she's just ruthless towards anyone outside of Khador.

>>50157042
She is always ruthless towards her own people. 16+ - go to war and probably die there.
But yeah you sort of have a point since it is mixed with Russian Empire.

>>50157076
That's not really telling the whole story.

Conscripts belong to the 3rd army. The 3rd army is the garrison force that protects Khador's interior. The first and second armies consist more of career soldiers and volunteers much like Cygnar uses. The third army sees very little action unless you're unfortunate enough to be in one of the more active border legions. Khadoran citizens have to serve one tour of duty as part of the third army to protect Khadoran cities, and that's it. Many of them decide to reinlist, and and while most soldiers stay as part of the winter guard those with good aptitudes might see themselves becoming assault kommandos or even manowar. Some veterans might become mechaniks as well, or widowmakers.

One exception to this is the iron fangs. I think that iron fangs are mainly lesser nobility and stuff like that, who join the iron fangs instead of the winter guard for their service.

>>50157042
>>50157076
>>50157264

I always felt that Khador was more Tsarist then commuinist/ stalinist

>>50150944
I think they were referencing the Convergence's conceit that all major technological advancements where invented by servants of Cyriss; weather they knew it or not. "Nascent Masters" or some-such BS. Claiming the good work into the fold even of it had nothing to with the dark wanderer, typical cult stuff.

My faction is CoC, but I very much get the impression that the maiden is a diabolical soul sucking monstrosity intent on snuffing out free will.

>>50157337
They're designed and written to be Tsarist eastern europe and russia that is slowly embracing communism without having it's royal family brutally murdered by jews.

>>50157597
The problem with that idea is that Cyriss encourages independent thought and reasoning. It's the basis of scientific advancement, after all.

Hell, why else would she send her messages in the forms of ciphers to be solved? Hardly seems like a being that wants to destroy free will by having her servants exercise it.

>>50156242
>The entirety of the Menite warcasters are clerics, not wizards, they don't have inborn magical talent. They gain their abilities from Menoth gifting them.

Except for Feora, who is clearly pretending.

>>50157824
>The problem with that idea is that Cyriss encourages independent thought and reasoning.

Does she? Her cult are super dogmatic about what technology they're allowed to use.

>Hell, why else would she send her messages in the forms of ciphers to be solved?

Maybe that's just how it communicates? Maybe these things aren't even intentional messages.

>>50157873
The whole technology bit is something the writers made up either because they don't understand the concepts of chemistry, or because they just wanted an excuse for them to not use normal guns.

Be that as it may, their weapons are still some of the most advanced in the setting, so clearly they're on to something.

I mean, they have mini homing rockets that can tell friend from foe.

>>50157873
As for the second point, everything we know about Cyriss as a god is from those messages. If they aren't intentional, then she isn't even part of the plan CoC is following through.

>>50149694
You could argue with people on 4chan, or you could get the answer from your local TO. He'll be the only person with the difinitive answer to your inquiry.

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So I got into WMH with Ret because Thyron's weeaboo cred seemed legit, but the discussion up the thread is in line with every other opinion I've heard on him - he can't fuel his spells and dies to an angry look.

But since I'd like to try to pull off what I had in my head getting into the game, how does one go about setting up Vyros1 (since he seems like the most viable melee candidate) for a non-suicidal combat run? I've had a little success having him follow a wave of Sentinels and 2 Vyre heavies into the fray, but it tends to fall apart against Cygnar more often than I'd like.

>>50158257
Dawnguard. Imperatus. Go.

Elara is probably the most weeaboo though. She has the best melee game with her jumping in, killing dudes to fuel spells, and teleporting out.

But hey, there are erratas coming. Maybe shit casters like Thyron will get some buffs.

>>50156667
Any crocs list running a Spitter should have Targ in it for the Ancillary Attack.

>>50156755
Where did Skorne's mortitheurgy come from? Did they just come up with it themselves? Because they have no gods to get shit from.

>>50158951
>Where did Skorne's mortitheurgy come from? Did they just come up with it themselves? Because they have no gods to get shit from.
It's basically them improvising out of necessity. Everyone else had magic, so they had to do something.

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What is this time travel

>>50159073
>He doesn't remember playing Warmachine while listening to his brand new copy of Abbey Road!

>>50159024
Doesn't that just make the Skorne more talented than everyone else? Like, they've literally created what needed to be gifts by the gods.

>>50159073
I would have understood 1970-01-01, but 1969-12-31 is just baffling. How does that even happen? Did they somehow manage to make their timestamp a negative?

I have a question regarding the CoC focus allocation.
I feed a vector with 3 focus. It spends all three. Can i allocate all 3 focus to a single vector or do i have to choose a different target for each allocation?

>>50159361
You can allocate them to any other vector within 6" that has a functional inductio node. Yes, that means that if you position well you can feed your entire battlegroup with 3 focus and potentially even have it all flow back into the Corollary for next turn.

>>50155086
>WHY? She's already one of the most average casters in Cygnar's stable at the moment.

>Haley2
>Average

So average that she still in 99% of the pairing.

The only truth is that untill Warjack and Beast can't shake H2 FEAT she wil lbe always one of the best caster in the game.

>>50159613
Also: TELEKINESIS

There is a reason this is considered the best spell in the game. Combine it with the best arc node in the game and you've got some serious bullshit.

Are they immune to place effects? Just dominate their asses. maybe even take a shot at their caster, just as a little fuck you. Then fuck them up with your superiour Cygnar heavies and feat so the little fuckers can't even retaliate.

Haley2 = Queen of WMH
Everyone else = Dirty scrubby peasants

Would any one be up for a /tg/ vassal tournament/league?

Each faction has 6 casters selected pre tournament. Before each game you roll a D6 and that's the caster you play this game. You get a 0 (maybe 5 or 10 point) list of Jacks only.

>>50159873
Timezones might be a problem here. But in general that sounds like fun. You might want to lift the WJ/WB restriction and allow people to spend the 10p however they please. Just to allow for stuff like Choir or Beast Handlers.

>>50159873
Doesn't CoC only have five?
Directrix
Aurora
Hammerguy
Syntherion
Lucant

>>50158257
Imerpatus, his character jack, is really good with him. He also likes Gryffons and Dawnguard Sentinels are a good all around unit choice. Houseguard Halberdiers are also a good pick, his feat loves reach infantry to engage enemy models for flanking jacks. If you want Halbs, grab a Thane to speed them up, because Vyros' battlegroup is very fast with Mobility. He usually also wants an arc node, so a Chimera is not a bad call. There is a (meta) list with him that counters Wurmwood pretty well, but it uses mostly griffons and Mage Hunter Infiltrators to set up a massive feat turn.

>>50160140
>Imerpatus
lol

>>50160000
I think that makes some factions too powerful. Choir in mangled metal would be brutal, as would anything with disruption.

>>50160125
reroll the 6 then, either way you're not planning for shit.

>>50160207
>I think that makes some factions too powerful
I think not having it would make some factions too weak, especially Skorne. Disruption on a stick is quite rare in Mk3. The choir should not be that relevant either, especially as it would be hard to protect against opponents with arc nodes, guns or RNG10 spells (which are the only ones that care about 2/3 of its abilities).

>>50160233
If you run Skorne you deserve all you fucking get.

Here's a challenge for you cocksucking asstwats. Build the best 75 point list you can, except faction restrictions are gone. You can use anything from any faction in your list.

>>50160619
One of the butchers running dawnguard and a choir.

>>50160619
>>50160619
I assume Beast thing works on Jack and vice versa.

Karchev the Terrible - WJ: +30
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Juggernaut - PC: 12 (Battlegroup Points Used: 12)
- Mad Dog - PC: 7 x10
Arcanist (Ret) - PC: 2
Arcanist (Ret) - PC: 2
Arcanist (Ret) - PC: 2
Paingivers Beast Handlers (Skorne) - PC:5

Deus ex machina

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>>50149808
>>50149815
>>50149844
>>50149859
>>50149871
>>50150095

>>50160762
The sad thing about this is that Beast Handlers would become auto includes in every list. They could put focus on jacks and grant +2STR. What a fundamentally fucked up unit they are.

>>50158257
Take a look at Elara or Garryth. Both of them are pretty defensible and can get work done turn-b-turn, although neither of them are great at melee assassinating an enemy caster on their own (Elara gets her army to do it, and Garryth gets his army to do it at range surprisingly well).

>>50160859
Choir is still better. Choir works on ranged attacks, or can make them immune to 95% of shooting. Also cheaper.

>>50160619
1x Titan Gladiator for Rush
1x Min Beast Handlers
Lots of Juggernauts

>>50160875
>using Garryth
>ever

Don't listen to this guy.

Garryth and Thyron are both shit. Wait for the errata and pray that PP remembers how to make assassin casters that aren't Cain or Butch3r.

Elara is a good idea though. She probably gets the most distance out of her weeaboo fightan magic.

>>50161025
Garryth is probably still one of the worst casters in Ret, alongside Thyron and Ravyn, but he does bring an approximate 16" bubble where other casters and locks should not go if they want to live. He's a terrible melee assassin most of the time, but his feat makes his army's ranged assassination much better. And honestly, for what the guy is asking for (durable melee beatstick casters,weabooness notwithstanding), Ret isn't the best faction (I'd argue Khador fits that bill better with Butchers and Vlads) he seems sold on Ret. Elara is probably the best choice for what he's looking for, though. Her personal assassination isn't great, but she gets her army where it needs to go to make things die.

>>50161025
I would not bet on errata to change much in Ret positively or negatively, if sources are to be believed. Thyron didn't change at all really in the edition change, so I doubt he'll change much in January.

>>50161131
It's such a dumb thing. Thyron was supposedly made with MKIII in mind but he's even worse now. IMO he needs to be redesigned from the ground up so that he doesn't need to have three upkeep running at all times. Give him actual murder king stats like his fluff implies, drop Storm Rager, drop Onslaught, drop Assail, give him Quickness, Rapport and True Path. Let him either give his army a horrible alpha or hold his cards for a dirty assassination run. Get rid of that useless Ground Zero crap, replace it with fucking ANYTHING - Gallows, Flashing Blade, anything but that shit.

Ravyn is simply defunct. Just give her Energizer FFS, maybe a damage fixing ability for ranged stuff in her battlegroup. Locomotion a shit now.

>>50161442
>Ravyn is simply defunct.

What about some jank? A little thinking-outside-the-box?

(Ravyn 1) Ravyn, The Eternal Light [+30]
- Helios [34]
- Discordia [18]
Elara, Tyro of the Third Chamber [4]
- Sphinx [13]
Ghost Sniper [3]
Ghost Sniper [3]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Arcanist Mechanik [2]
Lys Healer [3]
Mage Hunter Strike Force (max) [16]
- Mage Hunter Strike Force Commander [4]
Lanyssa Ryssyl, Nyss Sorceress [3]

Drag in Heavies and kill them one at a time while the Strikeforce eat infantry. And anything with an Arc Node or Shield can get fucked anyway.

Then again I don't play Ret, so this is just pure theory.

>>50161567
Now put Kaelyssa in the list and improve it.

>>50161610
Kaelyssa doesn't have Snipe. Like I said, it's jank.

>>50161627
But her ghost snipers don't die from shooting once either.

Ravyn only having one spell on her card almost all of the time and having a feat that Ossyan can mostly replicate with Deadeye is her main problem. She needs a spell rework and Ossyan needs to lose Deadeye for her to be relevant again. Or, you know, make her actually support combined arms better like her flavor implies, as opposed to sucking at melee support while our dedicated ranged support caster does that better as well.

>>50161770
My Ravyn rework :

Stats and ability the same :

Spell :

Energizer
Snipe
Inviolable Resolve
Shitty nuke
Veil of Mist/Mage Sight

Feat
FF in control area get an extra attack.

>>50161838
I'd play the hell out of that. But how about we go a step farther? Field Marshal: Dual Attack. Gun-kata with all your jacks.

>>50161838
Cont. Thyron

Stat : MAT 8 14/17 POW 14 Weapon master.
Abilities : same

Spells :
Flashing Blade;
Velocity;
Warpath;
Assail;
True Path;

FEAT - same

>>50162049
...does Cleave trigger off Flashing Blade?

>>50161838
>>50162049
Somebody send this shit to PP, anon literally designed two better warcasters than they did in the space of a few minutes.

>>50162183
Nope, Cleave + Flashing blade is a bit skornegy, but I like Thyron with it.

The problem of this guys is that pVyros and eVyros do everything Thyron do, but better, the only thing he has is Cleave as Field Marshal, but the rest of his kit is just bad.

He really should need a total redesign.

>>50162049
Cont. Garryth

Stat : same just FOC 7 RAT 7.
Abilties ; same and Field Marshall : Sacred Ward.

Spells :

Mirage;
Lamentation;
Occultation;
Siphon Bolt;

Feat - Same for Focus, can't spend/generate Fury.

>>50162049
>gotta go fast Thyron

Eh. I'd play it.

He may want to keep Spellpiercer though.

>>50162357
Field Marshall : Acrobatic

>>50162389
I like the anti magic theme Garryth should have more than his ninja theme.

Feat and Field Marshal punish your enemy to use spells while the Feat punish his Beast/Jack usage.

>>50162501
I mean Lamentation and Field Marshal

Give him Witch Hound, like Kaelyssa used to have. One of them should have it.

>>50162550
I think you will see Witch Hound in the future probably with Kae2.

One of the secrets of game design is that when you create a new edition you took off something cool that could be used as cool concept to give it back later.

I know bols and faeit have 40k leaks. anyone have warmahorde leaks?

>>50156862
You're being a bit facetious here, and ignoring the main point of that post. Some factions have awful people in them working to subvert their generally okay systems, whereas other factions are terrible systems that contain a few good people.

>Trollbloods
For the most part, they just want to be left alone and have their own lands. They're not peaceniks by any means, and they have a few extremist, but their goal is on the whole to enslave, to destroy, or to harm anyone. Their goal is to preserve their species and find somewhere they can live without constantly being exploited. Doomspeaker and his followers are pricks, but take a look at the vast majority of their warcasters, and you'll find that their positive traits mostly outweigh their bad ones.

>Cygnar
Those fucks are definitely not as dirty as Khador. They've fought zero recent wars of outright aggression. They don't do ethnic cleansing or slavery like Khador does. Cygnar have two big problems - 1. being the sorta boring mainguys faction and 2. having a powerful upper class that sometimes wants to put its own interests over those of the nation. On the whole, though, as with Trollbloods, their 'good' characters outweigh the bad. None of them want to desolate their enemies and conquer all the lands before them. Nemo just wants to make the world better with science, Mary Sue wants to fight Cryx, Cain and Stryker want to protect the people of their nation, etc.

>>50163380
>cont

Compare this to factions like Khador and Menoth. Both these guys are aggressors. They go out of their way to incite war and suffering. Their characters that protect the innocent and refuse to cross certain moral boundaries are the exception rather than the rule. Instead they are mostly made up of Rezniks, Malekuses, Butchers, Feoras, Irusks, Karchevs, etc - people who are totally okay with causing as much suffering as possible to achieve their ends, and often relish doing so. I doubt you can name one Cygnaran warcaster as bad as Reznik or Butcher, or even Irusk, unless you count crimes against storytelling.

By the way, I play both the villain factions in this comparison. I know people tend to get riled over faction loyalty, but damn, don't be a bitch about your dudes being the bad guys in a story.

>tl;dr fuck off bruh Zeon are not the good guys

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>>50161838
>>50162049
>>50162357
>some random anon on 4chan made far better rules for these guys in his lunch break than PP did over several months of development and playtesting

Has PP ever done massive rebuilds for Warcasters without changing edition? If not, fucking why? It should be standard practice to look at which 'casters aren't being played and change them to be playable.

Anyone know where I can find a scan of Reckoning? Looking to get one of the guides from it.

>>50163578
Have you tried the OP?

>>50163460
They've actually talked about it a number of times. Prior to Mk3, consensus was that getting new rules out there and replacing cards was too costly / problematic to be worth it, and that they'd rather balance with errata and new releases.

With Mk3, they seem to have reversed that position, including putting measures in place to make it easier to overhaul units (like the version numbering on cards).

>>50156862
Bit of an oversimplification. There's really only two factions that can be outright categorized as Evil - Cryx and Legion. Those factions are both run by dragons, who are basically this setting's equivalent of Great Old Ones. They both want to rule/destroy the world, care nothing for human life, and brook no dissenting opinions within their factions.

With the rest of the factions, you get a bit of a spectrum of grays. Most factions have at least one caster that's a "good guy" (or gal), at least one that's a murderous and/or genocidal psychopath, and a whole bunch of others that fall in between. If you look at characters like Doomy, Reznik, Butcher or Hexy, then yeah those factions are going to seem evil. If you're talking about Grissel, Kreoss, Vlad or Makeda, you get a much more sympathetic PoV.

It's actually one of the best things about the setting that there are very few one-dimensional, moustache-twirling villains (outside of Cryx, anyhow). Most of the conflicts arise from differences of perspective. And a fair number of the characters manage to walk the line without being comfortably categorized as good or evil... look at Krueger, for instance. He looked like the Designated Baddie in Circle for the longest time, until it turned out he was right all along and his actions were responsible for saving the world from Extremely Likely Death.

>>50157807
Your grasp of history and your grasp of grammar really complement each other nicely.

>>50157807
We are all brothers in Skorne

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Cannoneer [17]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Praetorian Karax (max) [11]
Efaarit Scouts [6]
Efaarit Scouts [6]
Extoller Soulward [3]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Farrow Brigands (max) [15]
- Farrow Brigand Warlord [4]
Paingiver Task Master [3]

>>50165145
Yup. That's a Rasheth list.

>>50165528
Should I go with brigands, or with reivers and replacing the task master with another soulward?

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After painting these two: How much "soul"does a warjack have?
And what Menithes think of dogs as they are the best friend of mankind.

>>50165701
they look like characters out of Legend of Zelda

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Guy with the Ret/Vyros1 question here again, just wanted to say thanks for all the discussion and advice.

I've been trying to piece together a VERY secondhand Imperatus over the past couple months with limited success - the previous owner cut off most of the attachment points and stuffed the gaps with unmixed green stuff, god knows why - but instead of trying to pin across empty space again, I'll go at it with Milliput tonight.

Is this a good thread for posting crafting photos, or is that more of a /WIP/ thing? I'm thinking a bit of show and tell might help my motivation to fix this poor myrmidon up.

>>50166237
Post your stuff man. More art/people working on things can't be bad.

>>50165145
A second Cannoneer offers very little, you're leaning far too hard on Efaarit Scouts, and Brigands honestly are very overrated. I don't get why people insist on bringing guns with Rasheth. Is it one giant meme that I'm not in on? You have your feat, that's it. Xekaar on the other hand can hand out Mortality to an entire unit every turn. Hell, if you bring Marketh you can cycle it and destroy even more shit per turn. You don't even have a Void Spirit to both hunt solos and be a god tier arc node. HERE is how you Rasheth.

(Rasheth 1) Dominar Rasheth [+28]
> - Titan Cannoneer [17]
Because every list needs one, and it's amazing at putting Slaughterhousers online.
> - Titan Gladiator [14]
Auto include.
> - Titan Sentry [15]
Has the problem of not being able to kill due to low damage and fury, but Rasheth solves that with his debuffs.
>Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Auto include.
>Void Spirit [4]
Solo hunter and perfect arc node because it can safely stand where other shit cannot.
>Farrow Slaughterhousers [11]
>Paingiver Task Master [3]
On feat turn, Slaughterhousers can be pseudo PS17+4d6 at MAT9. 3 of them can take down a Juggernaut.
>Extoller Soulward [3]
Collects souls, blows up warbeasts, tells clouds to suck a dick.
>Gremlin Swarm [3]
I honestly suggest getting one of these and fucking around with it. There aren't many medium base incorporeal models in the game, and it just ruins people. I don't mean using the action to hit a warjack, I mean shit like putting it in the middle of the action to restrict the space your opponent can move into.
>Nihilators (max) [15]
Tarpit, now with added teeth. DEF15 on feat turn is very respectable.
>Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
>Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
>Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]
And here's how you deal with infantry.

>>50163380
Okay in that case i agree.

>>50166429
Feat and blood mark. He's also not a fury 6 caster that has to get right up in the enemy's face to use a mediocre defensive feat, unlike Xekaar. Marketh is 6 points that gets killed by literally anything, and other than that Xekaar's easy to kill ass has to get up within range to cast mortality while rasheth can arc blood mark.

>>50166486
>has to get right up in the enemy's face
Rasheth couldn't if he tried, the fat fuck.

>>50163411
Well i do not play Khador but Menites are OKAY in terms of being a living golems of Menoth - thats how they identify themselves i guess - tools and weapons of their god. Angry, nasty god. You should treat them as such.
Khador? Well, a young (now young) nations tend to be violent and yapping about conquer.
>>50164188
Thats what i am saying, they are undeniably evil.
I did not read the books but from the rulebooks it seemed like
>Doomy, Reznik, Butcher
are not really bad guys, they are just, well, not fucking aware of any moral code. The really EVIL guys would do evil knowing its evil and liking it. Those seem to be doing evil stuff to achieve their goals.
>Grissel, Kreoss, Vlad or Makeda
Yep, nice gals and pals.
Care to tell why Makeda is sort of good? I did not read about Skorne at all so can only wonder. Simply because their models are mostly ugly as fuck and thus i never considered to pick them.
>>50165701
Please use some conversion or stuff. Default dervishes look so terrific with oversized swords and hands and tiny torsos. Oh and add some bulk to legs and hands.
You will love the result.

>>50166237
You're certainly welcome to, just keep in mind that the responses in here might be more of a mixed bag compared to WIP

>>50166606
Hexxy falls into your not really bad guys meme arrow. Dude just wants to learn everything he can about magic for whatever reason.

>>50166795
Hexxy is a bad/creepy guy even by Skorne standards. His deal is knowledge at an cost, including the imminent destruction and experimentation upon his allies at times. He's basically Skorne's mad scientist Starscream, and none of that makes him a decent person. His goals aren't necessarily bad but the lengths he will go to achieve them are.

>>50166849
"any cost."

>>50166849
Lots of guys in Skorne will go to any length to achieve their personal goals though. Morghoul will kill anyone un-Skorne without hesitation, Naaresh waltzed up to Absylonia to see how tough he really was after all that meditating, Mordikaar probably planned to get swallowed by the Wurm for keikaku reasons, probably the same with Zaal and his self sacrifice oops by the way I immortalised myself hope you're fine with that.

Hexeris is just creepy as fuck and kills a few soldiers every now and then, which could be argued as a motivation thing.

>>50152078
I'm sure those lightning wizards can recharge a 'don, maybe even in the middle of combat.

>>50156862
>Khador? Stalinist russia as you have mentioned yourself.
>Stalinist russia

You have no idea what you're talking about. It's Imperial Russia, you twat.

>>50166910
Yes, that's sort of what makes them bad guys. Pursuit of personal goals with no regard to those around you is a way of life that isn't conducive for functional society. Skorne are alien in thought process to the other factions because of their philosophical extremities. See: the Agonizer. I'm not saying it's a bad concept (Their society is actually one of the more logically thought-out ones while keeping to their themes) just that most Skorne, partially from cultural and environmental pressures, trend towards villainous behavior. The main thing about Hexeris is that he would absolutely fuck over every other Skorne he has ever met if it would gain him more knowledge or personal power. He's ambitious past reason or good sense. He's also villainous. Nobody is going to argue that Dr. Arkadius or Lord Exhumator Scaverous are decent people either, and their goals are largely the same as Hexeris' in the pursuit of knowledge. It's not the goal that's bad, it's the method.

>>50167069
Arkadius and Scaverous need to git the fuck gud at collecting knowledge then.

>>50166910
Also, Zaal is hardly a good example of a non-bad guy in Skorne. Guy manages to be as "any means to my desired end" as a few of the other less relate-able Skorne characters while simultaneously being a massive heretic.

>>50167060
Then why are they red instead of white?

Dumbass.

>>50167097
It's different types of knowledge. Arcadius wants to learn more about anatomy and physiology and combinations such things have with engineering. His original goal for this process was to help cure diseases and make average human life better on Immoren, but he's sort of gone down his own intellectual rabbit hole on that one. Scaverous is basically an archaeologist: His passion is history, he just spends a lot of time desecrating corpses to directly interview those involved with historic events. Neither of them are at all good or even neutral beings in the setting either.

>>50167098
I feel as though a lot of the Skorne ideology boils down to the Crime and Punishment question of whether doing bad things can be justified by a greater good later on. Sure Zaal is a massive heretic, but his experimenting may very well end up bearing fruit later, same with Mordikaar and his dicking about with souls, since the guy has literally cheated death in a brand new way. Sure Hexeris is extreme in his methods, but having a ridiculously powerful mortitheurge in your faction is a huge boon. It'd be funny to see one of these ascend to some kind of Skorne godhood.

>>50167148
I don't think that belief makes their bad things any less bad. I don't object to any of their fluff, I just couldn't argue that they aren't generally speaking a villainous faction. I suppose this is where we disagree on the point. As a note, between Hexeris, Zaal, and Mordikaar, Mord is the only one who has a "greater good" for his badness, which is learning how to replicate his quasi-self-exaltation to fix the Skorne's afterlife problem. Both Zaal and Hexeris do the shitty things they do purely for personal gain. Having kept up with Zaal's fluff ever since he was introduced in Hordes: Evolution, I felt his relatively altruistic savior of Xerxis was quite out of character. I guess he figured he could find a soulstone somewhere, as did happen, and retain eternal control of his caste.

>>50167230
Zaal probably kept a soulstone in his pocket at all times just incase. Like a Skorne condom.

>>50167241
Actually he had to bleed all over half of the battlefield before he found it in the pocket of a dead junior extoller. So I guess the one day he needed them, he didn't have one. No soul glove no soul love Zaal.

>>50167261
Where can I actually get the fluff for Skorne? Like, which books? I'm particularly interested in Mordikaar, Xerxis, and Naaresh.

>>50167370
Mordikaar is, as I recall, in bits of Hordes: Metamorphosis (Mk1), Forces of Hordes: Skorne (Mk2) and Hordes: Devastation (Mk2). Naaresh is in Hordes: Domination (Mk2). Xerxis is in Hordes: Evolution (Mk1), Hordes: Domination (Mk2), Hordes: Exigence (Mk2), and a short story called Ill Omens in No Quarter 60.

>>50167370
Forces of Hordes: Skorne, Hordes: Domination, Hordes: Exigence

>>50167370
Xerxis also gets mentioned in Makeda's background novel, Instruments of War, but he has about three lines.

>>50166910
>Lots of guys in Skorne will go to any length to achieve their personal goals though.

This is what makes them bad people. Going to any lengths to achieve your aims, including harming other, is like the most common and easily recognizable kind of evil there is.

This is also why factions like Khador and Menoth are bad dudes too. Oh, they're just doing whatever it takes to achieve their goals of getting as much power and conquest for themselves as possible? Welp, guys, that's pretty fuckin' evil. Even their most benevolent characters are morally ambiguous at best, as they still support the mass scale murder of others in their nation's name. These guys aren't just defending themselves, they're going out and actively seeking bloody, costly war with powers that have no real intention of fighting them.

>>50167542
If Ret didn't want war, why did they surround themselves with a wall that could be destroyed so easily? Check and mate.

so in getting into Warmahordes I found a sweet deal that ended with me owning one or two of each model in the CoC faction, but they're mostly in pretty bad shape. The only mini that I'm missing, really, is Axis.

What minis should I work on fixing up first to get a 50-75 point army in shape?

>>50167644
I should clarify that I mean one or two of each unit/model/group. As in two sets of Obstructors, three magnetized Assimilator/Conservator/Modulator models, etc.

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>>50167571
Ios should tell the Protectorate that the Skorne knocked over a really old wall.

The Menites will simultaneously pop their heads open in rage and jizz uncontrollably with righteous vindication as they throw their people into the meatgrinder against Makeda.

There's also the Skorne Empire IKRPG book that's worth checking out.

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ADR
Transverse Enu 3
-Eradicators
Transverse Enu 3
-Eradicators
Inverter 15
Obstructors 11
Mitigator 7

My anti Una2 list, with a sideline of being a Circle drop/possible Legion drop.

>>50167148

The thing that is interesting is that the majority of Skorne would be abhorred to find out what Zaal, Mordikaar, and Hexeris are up to in their spare time. It's described that Makeda is vaguely aware of their heresies, but realizes that war is war and turns a blind eye to things that could make her campaign lose the favour of the people and her ancestors. As awful and completely evil Skorne are by human standards, it's admirable how discipline, honour, and loyalty are so important to them.

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Thinking of picking up a mountain king for my trolls, is he worth the points?

>>50167976
Now?

Yes.

>>50167993
75 with him would look like:
Rangor
Runebearer
Mountain King
Bouncer
Axer
Mulg
Mauler

Krielstone Bearer & Scribe (max)
Elder

Still new with trolls, does this look like a good way to utilize him?

>>50163411

Mind you, Menoth has a bit of a 'The abused becoming the abuser' to them. Cygnar treated them like absolute shit before the start of the wargame.

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Haha, time for phoneposting

Threw a Vyros1 list together out of stuff I should have painted by next week, how does it look? Is the double unit build too much?

>>50168020
Yeah, but only under one king, and nobody liked him, not even the Morrowan citizens of Cygnar.

And frankly Menites have always been the fire and brimstone sort. The faith of Menoth is one of those old school religions that all modern civilizations just want to move on from, but keeps trying to kill everyone.

>>50168292
Most Old Faith Menites seem relatively fine, if more hardline than most Morrowans. The Protectorate is just a vast dumping ground for the most zealous of foreigners to flock towards.

>>50167110
Game is murican. Murican a thicko. Only understand simple concepts like red a bad guy!

>Murican ever thinking white is the bad guy...

>>50167976

He's cheap (for a Gargantuan), hits like a ton of bricks, requires minimal support, and is a bitch to remove with certain casters. I play Trolls, and I love my Mountain King.

>>50168017

Looks like a solid start, but you might suffer against dudespam. I run Fire Eaters with my Ragor list just to clear out any random units that I might come across.

>>50167060
Lold. Read the history books you twat. It have more in common with Stalin's russia, despite MAH MONARCHY thing. Not like USSR wasnt more of a monarchy that an actual Soviet Union back when Stalin ruled.

God the victor looks like shit.

>>50169892
I wanna run a pyre troll with them right?

>>50167946
Makeda doesn't give a fuck because Zaal, Mordikaar, and Hexeris are all really fucking good at what they do. Sure a Kovaas is heretical as all fuck, but it IS very effective at killing things. Sure Void Spirits are blatant heresy, but damn son they're free murder machines. And Hexeris is only outclassed by Xerxis in terms of tactical prowess. Fuck discipline, honour, and loyalty, Makeda just admires their effectiveness.

>>50163364
There's basically no need for such a thing because unlike GW PP doesn't really try to hide what they're doing or releasing. You can google warmachine release schedule to see all the shit that's already in the pipe, for everything else you have to read their insiders and various shit or someones compilations of those. I hear that the sculptor for legion also posts in the facebook group for example, and often teases shit he's been working on, but usually that stuff is still far away.

>>50171414
>PP doesn't really try to hide what they're doing or releasing
They don't actively hide it, but they're too incompetent to ever actually release things. They were supposed to be putting out articles giving more detail about what's going to be in the January erratas, but I don't think they've released a single one yet. Then there's the Desert Hydra, revealed like 2 years ago or something.

>>50171424
>They were supposed to be putting out articles giving more detail about what's going to be in the January erratas, but I don't think they've released a single one yet.
The first one came out yesterday. It doesn't ahve much info though.

>>50171435
>"Well the first thing me and Dave did was go to Starbuck's for a coffee. I got a pumpkin spice latté so I could bring out my inner white girl LOL and Will got an Americano in honour of President Trump. Then we loaded up Skorne on War Room, and realised that actually everything in Skorne was fine so we kinda just left it at that."

>6. Why was Beat Back changed the way it was? What was abusing the ability in Mk II to warrant said change?
JUST SAY IT YOU FUCKING KEKOLDS

JUST SAY THAT IT WAS SKORNE THAT MADE YOU NERF THE ABILITY INTO THE GROUND

>>50171400
Pretty sure she likes discipline and loyalty. Her gripe with Vinter was pretty much that he was planning to betray the Skorne. She would have followed him straight to hell if he was genuine with his intentions.

She's cool with Zaal and Hexeris only while they get results. When they stop doing that or when the results they're getting are not the ones she wants, she will suddenly care a great deal about their heresies.

Mordikaar is a special case because he could be very well be the salvation of the Skorne. I kind of want to see him talk to some Iosan arcanist or soul specialist and for them both to realize they may have information vital to one another. Hell, maybe he did, we still don't know who ousted the Skorne from Ios or how they did it.

>>50171500
But wasn't Mordikaar officially killed off screen? Like damn PP could turn him into the actual Reborn, none of this Vinter shit.

>>50166606
>Doomy, Reznik, Butcher are not really bad guys, they are just, well, not fucking aware of any moral code. The really EVIL guys would do evil knowing its evil and liking it. Those seem to be doing evil stuff to achieve their goals.
What you call EVIL here is really like old DnD-alignment Evil, like something from a Saturday morning cartoon villain. IRL, the overwhelming majority of people who do great evil are convinced that they have some kind of solid justification. "Everyone is the hero in his own story", as the saying goes.

Doomy is a baddie because he's lost his objectivism. He's dehumanized the "enemy" to the point that he can order his trolls to devour their non-combatants and chalk it up to "the cause". He's smart enough that he should know better, but he's deliberately closed off that little Jiminy Cricket voice, because he's become convinced that the end justifies the means.

Butcher and Reznik are prototypical Milgram Experiment characters - they defer all onus for their actions to their "duty", which frees them from responsibility. This allows them to avoid confronting the fact that they are fundamentally broken and actually enjoy the violence.

>>50166795
>Hexxy falls into your not really bad guys meme arrow.
Hexy is absolutely a bad guy; similar to Doomy (The End Justifies The Means), but maybe even worse in that his motivations are more selfish. Performing torturous science experiments on prisoners isn't really a grey area, morally speaking.

>>50166606
>Care to tell why Makeda is sort of good?
It's tricky, with Skorne, but I did want to give a Skorne example. They are a bit like feudal Japan, in that their moral code isn't divided into Good and Evil, but into Honorable and Dishonorable. Makeda is the ultimate example of "Honor" in Skorne. She's still pragmatic, certainly, almost Machiavellian at times. But she doesn't defer responsibility for her actions to The Code or anyone else, making her the best hope for Good Skorne.

>>50167145
>Arkadius has gone down the rabbit hole
"The road to hell is paved with good intentions", right? There's a LOT of characters in the IK that fit this mold... setting out to do something positive, but ultimately losing sight of the consequences of their actions.

>>50167148
Skorne idealogy isn't fundamentally evil, it's just more primitive than ours. Hoksune = Bushido, for all intents and purposes. If you could talk to your ancestors from a few hundred years ago (language difficulties aside), they'd probably seem about as alien as Skorne, and more than capable of evil, if only due to their ignorance.

Skorne come from a world where life is still nasty, brutish, and short - their society has evolved to cope with this. They are still ruled by a warrior caste, because that's the only way their civilization can endure. As a consequence of that, their society is structured along military lines, and military acumen is praised as a virtue.

It might not be a pretty picture, but for the vast majority of our recorded history, we humans WERE Skorne, in all but name. It might not be "Good", but it's not that hard to relate to.

>>50172289
>Skorne idealogy isn't fundamentally evil, it's just more primitive than ours. Hoksune = Bushido, for all intents and purposes.
It seems to me that Skorne culture is more a perversion of a mix of real world cultures. In your example Hoksune is similar to Bushido, but still different. Yes it's about honor, but in the end it's "kill, kill, kill so the Extoller will keep your soul". I'm not saying their society doesn't make sense in the context of the setting. However this is how it seems in comparison to our human societies in reality.

>>50170144
Agree and disagree. Khador is really more of a hybrid of Imperial and Soviet Russia. Devs basically just took everything "iconic" about the Russian narrative and jammed it together in one pot. The end result is a bit like one might imagine would have happened if 1905 had been more broadly successful (and 1917 never happened)... or maybe if after 1917 the Reds and Whites had come to some kind of peaceful resolution and re-established a constitutional monarchy.

With Khador you've got an orthodox Monarch, supported by a traditional old-guard nobility, but also advised and influenced by a class of industrialist new money (complete with underworld connections). In the military, the nobles still maintain their traditional units and ranks, but you've got modernization happening and a bit of a meritocracy as well with the Winter Guard, who can rise through the ranks to become officers. The ironfangs look more Imperial, but the WG is definitely a Red Army equivalent. It's a mashup.

>>50172314
>It seems to me that Skorne culture is more a perversion of a mix of real world cultures. In your example Hoksune is similar to Bushido, but still different. Yes it's about honor, but in the end it's "kill, kill, kill so the Extoller will keep your soul". I'm not saying their society doesn't make sense in the context of the setting. However this is how it seems in comparison to our human societies in reality.
It's not really "kill, kill, kill", it's a total focus on the warrior culture. Bushido is just one example, and it absolutely emphasized honorable combat as The One True Path for its adherents, just like Hoksune. They didn't have extollers, but the correct behavior for a warrior was the same.

If you want a more dramatic example, look at the Vikings... they're religion actually emphasized death in combat as the ONLY real route to the good afterlife.

>>50166606
>are not really bad guys, they are just, well, not fucking aware of any moral code.

They are very aware of moral codes though.

They just use doctrine and/or trauma as an excuse to hurt as many people as they want, without having to feel bad about it or look inward and acknowledge that they're dysfunctional people. Reznik loves Menoth so much because Menoth gives him an excuse to live out his sadistic fantasies.

They're evil as fuck, almost as evil as peeps like Harbinger or Ayn Vanar who make use of them.

File: make_skorne_great_again.jpg (157KB, 1024x1024px) Image search: [Google]

157KB, 1024x1024px

what a lovely and beautifull day.

First today .. and sometime febuary..

>>50162049
I could ship this version of Thyron with Lich Lord Elara.

>>50168017
>fury MGMT family o' trees
I see many frenzies in your future

>>50172478
Question is if Reznik still can enjoy a quize moment and smoke a Blunt with his buddy the High Reclaimer?
Some characters are made to be evil and bad but some have more facettes. Malekus seems bad in his story but he is also forgiving and in some sense just. He also burns and flags himself to compensate for his guilt.

>>50171519
He was killed on screen. The wurm literally fucking ate him.

>>50172861
Don't worry. Menoth will gutpunch the worm and he will be spit out again. How do you think reincarnation works?

>>50172811
>Malekus
>just

Wat.

He burns a teacher to death because she had the gall to try to hide her kids from him, the burninating lunatic. Malekus is probably more interesting than the other new warcasters, what with PP literally just ripping his personality from the TV version of Kingpin, but he definitely isn't just.

As with Reznik, Menoth is an enabler for his desire to burn people. He tells himself he's doing good, but in reality, he's only doing it because making people suffer makes him feel large and in charge. He specifically killed the teacher because he had a hateboner for the Morrowan teachers that punished him for doing sick shit as a child.

>>50173029
I said in some sense. He is totally selfjustifying and the morrowans in this town are too dumb to realize turning down a high priest is just calling for a red hot death. Also Malekus would let her life if she had hidden her obvious trinket.
>imply the teacher wasn't mistreating her students too ;^)

>>50170940
Dont need to, honestly. But pyres do help

>>50172861
Just because you've been swallowed doesn't mean you're dead. He could just be sat there reincarnating over and over until he gets shit out in the wilds of Urcaen. Then Despoiler finds him again and they go on magical adventures.

New ADR is up. Interested in a Menoth pairing. I'm assuming Harbinger is in, but who to pair with her? Tristan?

>>50174018
>New ADR is up
Would you mind linking it?

>>50174018
Harby has a shitload of issues in MK3, especially in the current meta. She just dies.

Why does Gibbs have a cat on his base?

How good are Stoneward and Woldstalkers?

>>50172748
What can I do help alleviate it?

>>50172217
>What you call EVIL here is really like old DnD-alignment Evil, like something from a Saturday morning cartoon villain.
Well i do not really disagree.
Uhuh got it bout makeda.
>>50172375
During the reign of russian Emperors since like 1850 army commanders were imbeciles at the very least, and defeat in WW1 was the best proof of it. Also nobles did not tend to lead the army.
Also russian rulers were almost NEVER adviced, or at least they never did listen to good advices.
So it is overall the very very very fantasy (to the point of fairy tales sometimes) Imperial and Soviet Russia.

>Cataphract Arcuarii
Harpoon POW is now 5

Just how busted does the unit become with Hexeris2?

>>50175916
Its the "Hot Meal" token. You remove it when Gibbs cooks up some Llaelese cuisine to feed to Stryker2