/btg/ - BattleTech General

NOT EVEN JUSTICE, I WANT TO GET TRUTH.

File: Mako.png (123KB, 1336x1353px) Image search: [Google]

123KB, 1336x1353px

My UMU omni brings all the Spheroids to the yard.

>>50134029
We will never approve of your independance from our Federation.

All must bow before the White American Protagonist faction.

>>50133969
Gentlemen, take the standard 2H Shadow Hawk. How do we fix it?

>>50133969
>tfw you got into the game through MechWarrior 2 and MechWarrior 3 and had no idea what a Shadow Hawk was when you first heard of it

>>50134057
I don't know what to make of this

>>50134150
Take out the missiles and put a bigger version of one of them in, add another ML.

>>50134150
Turn it into the -5M?
MAybe swap the SRM2 for more laser?

File: Shadow Hawk 2G.png (38KB, 652x880px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 652x880px

>>50134150
Make it a Griffin.

>>50134219
It makes you desire UMUs and LRTs.

>>50134150
Turn it into a -7CS or -7M.

>>50134150
Large laser for the AC, upgrade the SRM to a 4, then a ton of armor and lots of sinks.

In case anybody feels like joining, I made a Battletech Discord server:

https://discord.gg/3KuMhXf

>>50133490
GAS THE CLANNERS WAR OF REAVING NOW

ONE OPERATION BULLDOG WAS NOT ENOUGH

File: Trooper Hawk SHD-1T.jpg (229KB, 830x1075px) Image search: [Google]

229KB, 830x1075px

>>50134150
Step 1: Stop trying to match the performance of the other 55 tonners taken from the Dougram series. Step 2: Make it the Star League's (and later the Successor State's) generic trooper medium.

>>50134150
Give it basically anything but a fucking AC/5 for a primary weapon

>>50133969
AGAIN, the Crescent Hawks and Butte Hold links are dead, and you forgot the other Mediafire link, get it right next time.

https://www.mediafire.com/folder/tw2m414o1j9uj/Battletech_Archives

>>50133969
>>50134576
And OP didn't use a Battletech image, for God's sake

Get it together next thread

>>50134772
That's a Shadow Hawk / Dougram. What are you talking about?

>>50134860
Exactly, that's a Dougram pic. A bad one, even, where you can hardly see the robot

>>50135075
>can hardly see the robot
>u wot m8
Have you actually expanded and looked at that image? It's pretty obviously a robit.

>>50135075
It's a close-up shot, you idiot. Stop being argumentative just to be a dick.

>>50136211
Are there any merc groups or organizations that are descendants of the Rim Worlds Republic?

I know of a couple, like Fuchida's Fusiliers and the Blue Stars Irregulars. Are there others? Is there any semblance of organizations hearkening back to the RWR?

File: 1470609389001.jpg (455KB, 900x1921px) Image search: [Google]

455KB, 900x1921px

>>50134376
GAS THE CLANS

SPACE WAR NOW

>>50136290
Didn't mean to quote your post >>50136211 since it's unrelated

>>50136211
>hurr durr dougrum not shadyhock
>hurr durr too close up
>hurr durr stop being argumentative just to be a dick.

Facepalm-inducing hypocrisy. I bet you're that one disgruntled FWL shitposter too. Seriously, kys.

File: lammech.jpg (59KB, 640x400px) Image search: [Google]

59KB, 640x400px

>>50133969

OP

the mediafire link to the crescent hawk PDF is down.

>>50136374
Anon

It was pointed out

>>50134576

Made a Catapult-K2 with 17 Machine Guns and an ER Large Laser.

Shit's actually tons of fun.

>>50136439
BRRRRRRTapult? I am intrigued and would like to know more.

>>50136345
>FWL shitposter
Eh?
Different anon here. You talking about Muninn?

File: BRRT.pdf (1B, 486x500px)

1B, 486x500px

>>50136480
I have no idea how to export those fancy text images like >>50134057, >>50134261, and >>50134555.

But I actually made it 29 Machine Guns. Here's an exported PDF since I'm a fucking scrub.

>>50136629
>set them all to burst fire

Good lord.

File: critical_hit_by_spooky777-d4zay4o.jpg (2MB, 1733x1215px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1733x1215px

>>50134376
>>50136297
Know your place, freebirth insects.

>>50134150
Move the medium laser to the torso to optimize it's use of the Battlefists quirk. maybe swap the AC for a large laser if you don't mind the heat, but it already does 15 damage average when you keep it at it's 6 hex optimal range and that's only one point less then the Wolverine and Griffin.

>>50136787
>>50136629
It might just manage to cook off the ammo from Rapid Fire MG's fire alone, I'm impressed.

File: dakka.png (58KB, 464x799px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 464x799px

>>50136910
I'm having a giggle.

>>50136629
Use SSW's export to text function, then paste it into Paint. It's not complex.

>>50136992
I've been using the MegaMekLab.

I'll snag that.

>>50137005
You can do the same in MML, it's just not as useful, because the MML team have strange ideas about user friendliness and functionality.

>>50137039
That's what I saw, I didn't want to spam out a wall of text and take several screenshots.

Just too lazy for that shit.

What's the deal with the U, UU, UR, RR, etc for the TROs in the mediafire?

>MadCap
>massive Zeon fanboy

I actually like the dude, but... Why am I not surprised?

>>50137331
weebs, man

>>50137309

U is Upgrades, which is in-universe and in publishing order the most recent version of the TR.

R is Revised, which is a corrected version of the original, sometimes with some new units.

Is there a PDF of a final version of Interstellar Operations anywhere? Only beta stuff in the pdf links in the OP

How do we fix the Quickdraw? Simply point those rear lasers forward?

And was the first combat use of the Assassin ever retconned?

>>50137994
Put the rear lasers in the arms.

>>50137994
>How do we fix the Quickdraw?
Make lasers forward facing and move all of them into the torsos (zombie mech, a la Grasshopper), switch heat sinks to doubles (if possible) and subtract one, switch armour to FF to gain points without weight, and add CASE to left and right torsos. Not perfect but definitely an improvement.

>>50138176
>torso lasers
but that wastes the flippy arms of the Quickdraw, and besides, the proper melee choice is kicks at one level above the target.

File: image.jpg (158KB, 736x1040px) Image search: [Google]

158KB, 736x1040px

>>50136809
I almost forgot about spooky's battletech stuff

>>50136910
Where are the rules located for rapid fire with MGs? How is it different from an mg array ?

>>50138351
On a scale of 1-Nova Cat how bad am I for not being a fan of the Orion. It plays like a fat trooper with out more flexibility or charm.

File: battletech_machine_gun_roolz.jpg (176KB, 455x639px) Image search: [Google]

176KB, 455x639px

>>50138429
>Where are the rules located for rapid fire with MGs? How is it different from an mg array ?

The two rules are mutually exclusive. See Tactical Operations, page 102.

>>50138590

Depends on how you like to play.

The Orion is one of the two intro Heavies I'd say are most under-rated, the other being the Flashman, with the caveat that it didn't get a downgrade to Intro tech until the whole Unseen mess so it's had less time to make a splash.

I also think it's pretty flexible, or at least is more so than other favourite Heavies like the Archer or Marauder. One of the best armour layouts too so it's plenty tough. Outside of maybe the Thunderbolt I'd say it's one of the most flexible heavies too, especially factoring in alternate ammo types.

Admittedly it got a really shitty upgrade in 3050 which hardly helps.

File: nova_cats_by_ironhawk711.jpg (276KB, 800x1035px) Image search: [Google]

276KB, 800x1035px

What's your favorite Clan and why?

>>50139008
Smoke Jaguars everyday.

>>50138965
>Flashman
>Underrated

That thing gets its dick sucked as much as the Crab. Like all the 3025R retcons though, it really doesn't fit on the 3rd War battlefield except in very rare cases.

I agree with everything you said about the Orion though. Which interestingly plays into what he said. It really IS a fat trooper. But fat troopers are fucking great, like the Thud.

>>50139008
Blood Spirits

>>50139050
I find the thud so much more flexible and it's a fat trooper too.

>>50139008
Hellhorses.
Honestly, they're like DOOMGUY: THE CLAN
Even their khan went all, "YOU ARE BIG! THAT MEANS YOU HAVE BIG GUTS!"

>>50139092
Use rapid fire rules for the AC/10 and load the SRM with infernos. It's actually more effective. Thud looks cooler though.

>>50139050
I love the Orion. I has nearly everything I want in a stock mech.
And it gets even better when optimized.

>>50139021
"clan dindu nuffin"

>>50136211
t. Capellanposter

File: CIH01.png (1MB, 800x800px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 800x800px

>>50134338
This.

>>50137994
I like stripping the LRM10 out for a Large Laser. Or, stripping the Medium Lasers out for a Large Laser, to better define what the hell it actually does. I also just like Large Lasers.

>>50139008
Ice Hellion and Goliath Scorpion. The first because SPEEDFREAKS and the second because they Nova Cat better than the Nova Cats. Runner up and honorable mention to the Snow Ravens and Hell's Horses for being cool non-'Mechaboo Clanners.

>>50139490
>not the version with speed blur on the girl
Not fast enough/10

File: Shadow Hawk SDH-2H2.png (58KB, 610x871px) Image search: [Google]

58KB, 610x871px

>>50134150
This is what I did to it. Don't have to think twice about punching with it anymore, so it becomes the "brawly" member of the 55 ton trio.

>>50139546
I keked when that anon did that after I posted it for the first time. I didn't want to steal his thunder; that was his idea, not mine.

>>50133969
Dougram?

>>50139645
I need to get to watching that again. I left off at... episode 8, I think? I know it's REALLY long.

>>50139110
Didn't those guys fashion themselves into all-out Mongolian style nowadays and throw money into transforming tanks?

File: kevin the spacey.jpg (141KB, 791x795px) Image search: [Google]

141KB, 791x795px

>>50139490
>Sanic: The Clan
Good choice.

Muninn: I'm back in town if you can respond to the TRO emails and/or if you need revisions.

>>50140025
Need that pic of dashi sanic

>>50140066
>the prospective size of the fleet/Aero section of the /btg/TRO if they have the money to let NEA go buck wild
It'll look cool but I'll feel like an idiot reading it because I know nothing about fleet/Aero in Battletech. Still, Shimmships are pretty sexy.

File: Clan Omni Lineages.gif (79KB, 924x2393px) Image search: [Google]

79KB, 924x2393px

Well, the question about mech "lineages" made me wonder about the original 16 Clan omnis and their descendants among the clans.

I'm sure there's info I'm missing, so if you have anything to add please let me know. The clan coloring is for the Clan it's most associated with, not the originator.

A couple of things that jumped out at me:

Steel Viper gets dicked out of anything theirs

Not much descended from the Assaults

>>50140555
The Vulture is a Mad Cat descendant

>>50140391

I'm not going to lie: if my two WarShips make it into the TRO, people are probably going to be pissed off at them. The ships are quite optimized for the ROTS naval superiority doctrine I designed; they're built to do something and they're very tightly tuned to actually do those things. The issue is that by the time the ROTS gets around to building WarShips, the veterans of actual WarShip combat have more or less all retired, and so while the WarShips do their respective jobs really well, the problem is that the doctrine itself is HORRIFICALLY unoptimized. It makes complete sense to somebody in-universe with no hands-on experience of modern naval combat, but somebody like Commander Alain Beresick would look at it and facepalm really, really hard. The doctrine makes sense in pure theory (see also: Robert McNamara's Whiz Kids), but when you actually apply it it's almost certain to completely fall apart.

That way we get WarShips that are intelligently designed instead of something like the SovSoy, but they don't end up being so good that they obviate existing WarShips. Amusing, with only a little luck a standard 6-ship squadron can actually pose a credible threat to a Lev III.

>>50140555
Didn't the Warhawk and the Dire Wolf have a baby and it was the Tomahawk?

>>50140734
At this point I don't even know if the RNS Jormungandr will make it in, despite being a much sillier BC/Carrier thing. The book has changed radically since we started, and the ISP section I'd intended may not fit.

>>50140769

Well here's a vote for including as many unstupid warships as you can pack in there.

>>50140769

No worries. If they make it in, great. If not, I can post them here anyway.

>>50140734
>people are probably going to be pissed off at them
Only if they know anything about fleet shit. Lev II hate is literally a meme where people have to be TOLD it's broken because nobody cares about anything but stompy or tready tanks and maybe some futureplanes and fusion-powered heavy infantry. No insult or offense intended but I doubt anyone but die-hards would see them and go "WHAT THE FUCK".

Still, excited to see how they look. I'm sure I'll be informed how offensive they are after a few people latch onto how badly you "fucked up".

Also, Hockey season. Hooray.

>>50140790
I dunno if it's unstupid, so notch as "How do I make a semi plausible way for the RotS to kill a Leviathan?" I figure a shitload of ASF, a decent sound of guns, and collars for Castrums would be good

>>50140843

See, but that's the boring, conventional way, though. Mine is much more... unique. Creativity matters.

>>50140843
Fucking tablet. I hope that's clear enough.

>>50140897
I've never been comfortable making my own warships, sadly. Not after the NAC beast.

>>50140683
>Clan Smoke Jaguar apparently developed the Mad Dog as a second-generation upgrade to an earlier Clan Coyote OmniMech design. Using some design molds and structures common to the Timber Wolf (aka Mad Cat)

What was the earlier Coyote Mech? How did they have access to something nobody else ever got rights for? How is it common to the Timber Wolf if the Wolves never lost production rights to the Timber Wolf?

>>50140761
I haven't found an explicit reference to that lineage yet.

>>50140761
Fairly certain the Tom is just Daishi blood.

File: archer ARC-2RMG.png (47KB, 931x937px) Image search: [Google]

47KB, 931x937px

>>50136439
>>50136480

If you like spraying bullets, you will like this.

>>50140843

>I figure a shitload of ASF

You need to bring 300 just to equal the internal capacity of the Lev II, then you need to bring enough to survive the 100+ capital damage per turn it can sling on every approach just with conventional weapons for long enough to chew through the 1,000 armour it has on every arc.

To put this into perspective, it can kill an Eisensturm squadron every turn just with its conventional weapons and it will take 42 turns for an Eisensturm squadron to crack the armour on any one facing.

I have a half typed up article on the Leviathan that I abandoned because at one point I decided to look at what it would take to pose a serious threat to the Leviathan using WarShips. To get something that approaches an equal ratio for damage output and damage sponging on the Lev, you literally need 3 McKennas. And the McKennas at that point can *never* Threshold the Leviathan, but will be Thresholded by the Leviathan which can also theoretically one-shot them if all the Lev's fire hits the Aft arc, but again the McKennas can never kill the Leviathan in a single turn.

Also, you know when the last time was that anyone even had 3 McKennas? The Star League.

The most plausible way for the RotS to kill a Leviathan is to somehow goad the Bears into trying to enter the Fortress then letting their anti-KF weapon rip it apart, or accelerating a WarShip to a velocity of 60, commencing a Jump adjacent to the Lev while it passes by, and hoping the KF interference rips its jump drive out.

Beating it in a straight fight is just about inconceivable.

>>50140973

Earlier Coyote 'Mech is, IIRC, the Coyotl. I think that's in the Golden Century historical.

The Timber Wolf, despite being more common for the Wolves, is actually really rare for them. They have way more Gargoyles than they do Timber Wolves, for example- I think in the Invasion era they had no more than 40 or so in their front-line formations, and that number would have only dropped after that.

>>50141788
What about a high-speed engagement or whatever it's called, the "feed both record sheets into a shredder and whichever one lasts longer dies second" one?

File: grognard-MG.png (38KB, 800x1054px) Image search: [Google]

38KB, 800x1054px

so i herd u liek machineguns

>>50141788
I like the idea of filling it with Blake sleepers, then having them kill all the Clanner scum when they least expect it.

>>50141810

1,000 armour is still a giant pain in the ass to deal with, especially since the speeds you need to get to for anything to have a realistic chance to beat it will make hitting it in the first place highly unlikely.

On the tabletop, or if they decided to try and have a fleet action written that accurately reflects what happens in AT, you basically need to send the majority if not entirety of the Snow Raven fleet against the Bears' single Leviathan II to kill it.

Which is fine, but now what are you going to do about their Leviathan III, which is at least 50% more bullshit than their Leviathan II?

When you really get down to it the only way to kill it is with an act of fiat.

Which I would totally welcome because it would be thoroughly justified in this case.

File: Grenadier.png (104KB, 423x503px) Image search: [Google]

104KB, 423x503px

What is everybody's favorite battle armor? I like the Grenadier because I have shotgunned so many mechs with the little things.

>>50141842
>no JJs for maximum BRRRRRRT
It's like you weren't even trying.

>>50141788
>Beating it in a straight fight is just about inconceivable
Who said it was going to be a straight fight? It was going to be an ISP article for a reason. Remote KF drive activation and hyperspace coordinates of stars are exciting projects. As I said, the book has changed radically. I had intended my contribution to be the Spoopy Blakist Jamboree.

>>50141865

To expand on this, it's got 1,000 points of amour per facing, not 1,000 armour total.

Most ships don't have 1,000 armour total. The next best armour per facing is on the Mjolnir, which tops out at 504 on its nose.

You also need to be doing more than 400 damage from your Nose and Fore-Side arc in a medium-speed engagment or more than 325 in a Fast engagement from NACs, GRs, or missiles to even have a chance of a one-pass kill against a Leviathan.

Most WarShips can't even deal that in a single turn from every arc combined.

The Conqueror's got the heaviest Bow armament I can think of off-hand and it tops out at 270 in ballistic weapons. A kill through straight damage is impossible, you'd need to get very lucky with your crits.

The TL; DR response is that the Leviathan doesn't have much if anything to fear short of running into a custom ship designed for the job, while being virtually assured of annihilating any canon WarShip thanks to its own ballistic armaments getting big multipliers.

Its own guns aren't an insurmountable problem, the issues with it are more due to the 1,000 armour on each facing and the 300 integral fighters. Between those two it can laugh off pretty much any attempt to kill one.

>>50141788
Any chance/rules of repeating what Clan Coyote did to Viper's Lev 2 in fluff?

>>50141932

>tfw "so we're gonna make it hard to kill" goes a bit overboard, leading to "either we make something to specifically kill it" or "how do we kill it, everything else be damned"

Christ I'm glad my setting isn't dealing with warships and ASF any more than fluff

>>50141842
Cool, but rather than grognard, I'd name it something else.

Like "The LGS owner is pissed off that we're still here 20 minutes after the store was supposed to close"

Or "Why do my Battletech games take so long I don't get it"

>>50141983

It's possible but hard to set up.

You have to survive the Lev's guns for a turn so you can start the movement phase adjacent to it and in range for KF interferance. The control rolls are gonna be a bitch because a success indicates an auto-abort that prevents the jump and you need to fail to the tune of at least a MoF of 5 on average since 12D6 should result in a result of around 36 most of the time. Which is about what you need to gut something with an SI of 150.

So it could happen but it's much more likely to go off in a narrative than on the tabletop.

>>50142033

tl;dr: roll for it, see what happens. we're all counting on you. no pressure.

>>50139008

Ghost Burr, because Ohana means family.

File: PhalanxBA.jpg (81KB, 521x662px) Image search: [Google]

81KB, 521x662px

>>50141884
I recognise that it's easily one of the best if not the best IS BA suits.

I have a soft spot for the Kanazuchi which I call the "Waddle", but it's just too slow to get anywhere and too big to transport on an Omnimech. For being one of the earliest houses to work on BA technology, Kurita doesn't have anything to brag about, really.

I do like the FWL's Phalanx, though. Similar to the Grenadier, but I just like the aesthetic more. I painted some up to supplement my 51st Shadow Division, but have never gotten around to fielding them, yet.

>>50139008

Gonna go with pre-Vlad Wolf. Was there author fiat? Sure. Was there some silliness? Sure. Did Wolf-In-Exile do fuck all after they booked it? Nah, but they're my bros anyways. Ulric best -ric.

>>50142309
I always did like the look of that one too. Good choice. Plus the Kanazuchi is neat.

File: Steiner Stronk.png (21KB, 496x323px) Image search: [Google]

21KB, 496x323px

>>50141884
Rottweilers are fantastic

File: CJFDeltaGalaxy.jpg (367KB, 1851x1116px) Image search: [Google]

367KB, 1851x1116px

>>50142249
It's Jade Falcon... but it's kind of "By Default".

When I was a young'in, I liked Jade Falcon because Mechwarrior 2 played up the wolves as the "good guys" too hard. After just getting off a few years of having Tie Fighter as my go-to game, I was starting to get the idea of "Maybe I don't need to play the good guys all the time to have fun" and "I don't want to just take the popular ones". Little did I know at the time that the Jade Falcons were pretty much just one step down.

Then it became Steel Viper for a bit, because cool logo and even more obscure. I was happy they showed up in the CCG just before it went belly up.

Then as I started getting into the game and really looking into the lore, it went to the Ice Hellions and the Blood Spirits. Ice Hellions because you never hear about clan players using mechs faster than 6/9/0, and Blood Spirit because of the Blood Kite entry in the TRO 3067.

...but then I found the mini for the Blood Kite. Ugly as shit, based off of really bad art from the old field manual. Scratch the main reason I would want to play blood spirits.

...then the Ice Hellions got completely ground to a pulp during the Jihad when they tussled with the Falcons, scratch one more.

...then I found out the Steel Vipers got genocided during the Reaving war they themselves started. Scratch three.

So Bam... back where I started with the green birds. Luckily, I collected a bunch of minis when I was 12 that would get simple green/furniture stripper baths, and subsidised my trinary. Also, I had picked up one of those Ral Partha Paint sets when they came out - but it would turn out the only Galaxy they would be any good for was Delta Galaxy. Somehow they hadn't dried out in the dozen years I'd had them, though.

File: 1st_genyosha_BA.jpg (572KB, 2000x1003px) Image search: [Google]

572KB, 2000x1003px

>>50142344
On the Kurita side of things:
-I've never been able to use the Dark Age BA in a match yet. Can't speak on those.
-Inner Sphere Standard isn't the worst choice you can make. They're old, but they still get the job done.
-Raiden suits are Inner Sphere Standard with 50% more "Ching Chong" for your buck. MRM versions might not be completely terrible thanks to the range and not needing to worry about Attacker Movement Mods.
-Kage suits: Don't. The flying monkeys somehow got fluffed up as having only one of the four suits carrying a gun. Why, though? If one can carry it, they ALL can carry it. If you have to have these, you might as well stick to the Vibro Blade version. TAG if you have Arrow IV somewhere.
Kanazuchis: Again, too slow to get anywhere, If you're using TacOps weights for BA suit squads, they're also very difficult to transport. Luckily the Hiryo has the perfect weight capacity, but fuck me if I'm not still having difficulty memorising WiGE movement costs. Don't bother with the "Upgrade", the Standard is your best bet.
Void suits - the best bet I've had. Good stealth, mobile, and can mount an omnimech. They can slightly outrange other BA, too. The biggest downside being that while it's marked that they can swarm a target, once they do so, they can't do shit, since you can only do swarm damage with arm-mounted weapons. The Void's SPPC is shoulder-mounted.

>Why, though?

It's meant to be a DEST suit rather than for main-line combatants.

It's also the reason we got the rules for Squad Support Weapons, where each suit in the squad can dedicate X amount of weight and slots for a single weapon that no one trooper would be able to carry.

In the Kage's case, each trooper can donate up to 100 kg for the squad support weapon which would allow for anything up to a Small Pulse Laser but falls agonisingly short of a standard Medium Laser.

Of course you could also give everyone in the squad a Machine Gun or similar instead of just one guy, but fuck the Dracs, amirite?

>>50142442

>tfw yeah, I was, but then... well, uh, oops. so then.... ah, shit. guess I'll stick with X.

>>50140555
The Corvis is the ancestor of the Ryoken.

>>50142309
For me it's the goddamn Kopis. Being able to have a swayback's firepower hidden somewhere just screams area denial. Being a FWL player they've saved the bacon of my Semi-guided boats a few times.

>>50143002
Yeah, but unless it's relevant to the links between the original 16 I didn't include it. If the Corvis links to one of the others, or if it links to a descendant of one or something, I'll put it in, but I haven't seen anything like that mentioned.

>>50143018
Phalanx D is also quite good for that

>>50143054
Phalanx D is great when I need a little mobility. I just like the amount of shots Kopis has since it can afford to take shit shots and pray they land, even if the Phalanx is more likely to land them.

>>50141788
>Earlier Coyote 'Mech is, IIRC, the Coyotl. I think that's in the Golden Century historical.
It's the Lupus, and it would be the base for the Hellfire as well.

>>50140843
>I dunno if it's unstupid, so notch as "How do I make a semi plausible way for the RotS to kill a Leviathan?"

They have the Wall.

>>50143134
>actually tracking BA ammo

The fuck wrong with you, nigga?

>>50141884
I'm a fan of the Blakist ones, plus the classic Elemental suit.

Which Clans used the Conjurer? Seems like it should tie in with the Summoner, but it's a second-line mech with no readily apparent connection.

>>50143484

Listed as Clan General.

>>50143484
Nova Cats might use it a bit more, since Sarna lists the manufacturing site as "Irece Alpha, others" - check the books for more info, away from mine atm.

>>50143615
They built the Conjuror 2 on Irece to try to rebuild their touman after getting booted, when they didn't have the infrastructure to build omnis. No idea if they built any of the other variants though.

>>50143484
There is a Thor ancestor, but it's the Thresher.

>>50143615
Original 3055 only specifically stated it as being used by the Falcons, and that it had become a feared sight in the FedCom, but didn't specify it as exclusive or anything either. It's fluff was rather sparse even for Clan mechs of that time.

Speaking of Navies, what is the state of each house's navy as of Dark Age?

And is the "let's not blow up jumpships pls" rule still in effect?

>>50144091

Most have one or two ships.

The Snow Ravens have the only remaining functional Thera, and a fleet that's somewhere around the size of everyone else's combined.

Ghost Bear's Leviathans could annihilate every other WS in the setting even if everyone else ganged up on them.

>>50144125

Yup.

>>50144196
Where exactly did the bears get those things, or did every dominion citizen pull a component out of their ass?

>>50144252

>Where exactly did the bears get those things

Jellico and Ben Rome.

>>50144324
Not sure what that is.
I'm an ISfag, don't know much about clan lore other than "muh trials" and I read that one book about the elemental.
I like the Bears because they seem the most reasonable out of the clans besides Diamond Shark.

>>50144407
They're both writers. Both of which are blatant Bears fans.

>>50144498
Ahhh

>>50144619

To be fair I kinda think the Leviathan II got in because someone on the RS: AT2 team made it and nobody really understood how broken it was.

But when, after a decade of anyone with any level of familiarity with the naval side of things saying "HOLY SHITBALLS YOU GUYS THIS THING IS BROKEN AS FUCK!" you get Jellico in to redesign it and make it even more optimised, well... pretty obvious what's going on there.

Did the Cestus have jump jets at one point or have I lost my mind?
I was positive it did but according to MM and Sarna it doesn't. I seem to remember it from a GDL book.

>>50144942

One of the Allard-Liao kids has a custom version with JJs.

>>50145025
Ahhh
So I'm not in fact crazy.
On a related note:
Gentlemen, how do we make the Cestus more interesting instead of just another standard heavy?

File: battletech_cestus_illustration.jpg (134KB, 905x695px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 905x695px

>>50145118
>Gentlemen, how do we make the Cestus more interesting instead of just another standard heavy?

I think I like the Cestus the way it is, I'm just not a big fan of Duane Loose's illustration in TRO 3058 or IMW's model based on it. Maybe new artwork/visual design?

File: AWS-8Q-BAL.png (354KB, 816x1056px) Image search: [Google]

354KB, 816x1056px

>>50133969
Trying to make Pure Ballistic / Missile versions of classic BT designs, here's the Star League era Iconic Awesome, how did I do?

File: What The.gif (62KB, 491x399px) Image search: [Google]

62KB, 491x399px

>>50146005
Setting aside the whys in doing that to an Awesome in the first place, and the presence of the heavy rifle, 3 MGs when there's only two tons of ammo for two AC/10s?

>>50146112
Oh wait, 5 machines guns.
>BEWILDERMENT INTENSIFIES

>>50139008

Hell's Horses since they seem to be one of few non massive asshole clans.

Diamond Shark might have made it if they hadn't changed their name back.

File: FB_IMG_1475944361447.jpg (26KB, 450x443px) Image search: [Google]

26KB, 450x443px

>>501460065 #
, , a ?

>>50139490

Its such a shame that Goliath Scorpions and remaining Ice Hellions get relegated to fucking Space Spain.

No idea what the fuck happened there
But anyway, what possessed you to create this, and why in Blake's name would you ever use a heavy rifle?

>>50140555

Am I crazy or were the Hellbringer and Stormcrow Hell's Horses designs originally?

>>50146239
I like that they actually use vehicles occasionally

File: Yorii.jpg (7KB, 203x114px) Image search: [Google]

7KB, 203x114px

>>50146168
The Whys are fluff, Impoverished noble can't get laser weapons but has a munitions factory in their domain, Needs to retrofit salvaged designs or be totally lacking in Battlemech forces.

The design philosophy centers around combat being over in 10 to 15 rounds, so 10 shots for a weapon is usually plenty, generally weapons, especially ACs with large crit values get disabled before they can spend their ammo in my experience

Also, the heavy rifle is marginally better than the AC/5 unless you need to mount 3 or more of them, then the Ammo efficiency of the AC/5 wins out. Until then, the Heavy rifle can one-shot most houses, and does increased damage to Internal structure (At least in MM) and in rare cases totals vehicles with commercial or primitive armor.
This is bonus, on its own, ignoring the 3 extra damage it gets when not hitting standard or newer armour, it still marginally outperforms the AC/5 in range and damage, with comparable weight and crit reliance

>>50146168
Had spare tons, MGs are great crit fillers, and MG ammo has killed too many of my mechs for me to let it sit around

>>50146292

Hell's Horses are also Clan Bro.

Khan Fletcher aside they were all about working with other clans if needed, and even within their clan their mantra was "don't be a dick to each other, we can all help out in some way."

I'm glad they survived the Jihad, even if in a perilous position. I like that they're a clan that survived without becoming mega-powerful, or just overwriting an existing Periphery Realm. I'd like to see them sort of become their own periphery realm from scratch.

>>50146352
>>50146112
Err, also meant to reply to this post

>>50146359
It was forgone they'd survive the Jihad. They're the 5th most powerful clan in the DA.

File: AC5 HR.png (18KB, 519x380px) Image search: [Google]

18KB, 519x380px

>>50146265
I swear, the Heavy Rifle is actually pretty useful, If you're mounting less than 3 AC/5s, the surplus ammo isn't going to help you, but it will still kill you if you let its crit get touched, HR packs in much less efficient groups of 6 per ton, but you usually only need 2 tons of it to see you through an engagement, compare.

HR is a bit better unless you really need the ammo

>>50146433
It's worth noting to those who aren't familiar, the Rifle Family loses 3 damage against Standard armor, or anything newer, it does full damage against anything unarmored, including most buildings, Primitive, and Commercial armor, Also, MegaMek seems to think it does its full damage against internal structure too, although the RAW are a little ambiguous on this point and I can't find any definite errata on whether or not this should be

File: WHM-6D-BAL.png (2MB, 1844x2386px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 1844x2386px

>>50146005
I posted this one a few threads back too, A Warhammer made with the same design philosophy

>>50146257
I thought so too until I saw MA's AU on them. Now I can't even stand them.

>>50146433
>but you usually only need 2 tons of it to see you through an engagement
I assume you prefer to take safer shots? I can usually run an AC/5 bin dry or close to it in a lance on lance engagement. Having the extra ammo to take a couple of low odds pot shots isn't necessarily a bad thing as long as you don't go full War Dog (disclaimer: I love the War Dog and most of its weirdness except those OS Streaks), the shot never fired is guaranteed to never hit.

I got a bit of a soft spot for HRs too, but part of the issue with the ammo weight is considering what it could otherwise be applied to. I mean, 10 tons could get you 1 HR+2 tons of ammo, or 1 AC/5 + 1 ton of ammo + 1 medium laser, with both incurring a total 4 point heat burden.

>>50146433
You've obviously never played a campaign with a sadistic opponent who loves to cut your supply lines then.

DiscoBack and Grasshopper are the only reason I made it through that.

The thing about killing the Lev II/III is that it would actually be not that difficult to kill by sneaky methods, that is to say detonating a warhead of at least 5 kilotons *inside* the thing. Pulling that off really isn't beyond the abilities of DEST, or the RoTS special forces, or really even the last few anti-bear wrasslehogs

>>50146505
Isn't this just a worse hammerhands?

>>50147060
It is. I don't really get the Heavy Rifle thing, it doesn't feel better enough than the AC/5, much less real guns like the 10.

>>50147035
>the last few anti-bear wrasslehogs

Does anyone know the sourcebook that has the short story where the Wrasselhogs resistance to the Ghost Bears gets betrayed from within?

And one Wrasselhog tells the resistance that "things are better with the Bears and we all like them more, independence is pointless"

I can't find it anywhere.

>>50147035
I feel like it could be dealt with ezpz in any way besides direct combat.
Every house has a great espionage service. I'm sure they could find some ex-bears disgruntled with their agreement with Rassalhague who could get aboard and break stuff.
You would have to go to ATOW level though.
Hell, that could be fun. A campaign with that as the final objective? I kind of want to do that now.

>>50146560
No, usually by the time engagement starts to the time engagement finishes, there's only enough time to fire about 10 times, less usually as in the first 5 rounds of active combat you've probably lost one of your weapons, especially with ACs.

Most mechs just aren't fast enough to play keep-away for more than that, and those mechs who are, usually use Energy weapons.


>>50146622
If you're using your combat units as ammunition storage and transport, you have a serious vulnerability that you're hauling to the front lines in each engagement, always keep your mobile ammo trucks defended with your garrison or off-map units, ensure the trucks are always well stocked for when supply lines get cut.

Cut supply lines is a standard expectation, and attacks on Garrison units is a constant threat, still don't compromise your frontline units' combat effectiveness by relegating them to secondary roles.
It seldom goes well in my experience.

What good is massive ammo capacity if the crit gets hit, wastes the ammo, and totals your mech? These designs were made with those considerations in mind, you can always retreat off board to rearm, then attempt the objective at a better time. You can't rearm a mech with no IS left because someone thought it was a good idea to haul 6 tons of AC/20 ammo in its left torso (Looking at you Banshee).

File: mfw.jpg (27KB, 698x400px) Image search: [Google]

27KB, 698x400px

>>50147035
Imagine if WoB had managed to capture one through subterfuge, and it disappeared in the end of the Jihad.

That would have been nuts.

>>50147137
See that would have been fine if my opponent didn't spend every C-Bill not spent on mech upkeep on Savannah masters.

Literally, I was having to deal with a company almost entirely made up of Savannah masters zooming around and blowing up my ammo dump.

Eventually I told him if he didn't knock it off, he was going to lose one of the few people willing to play against him.

File: Estevez.jpg (53KB, 727x352px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 727x352px

>>50147069
Part of the thing is its potential when you actually use it in the appropriate environment. But of course, said appropriate environment is basically Age of War tank battles, so not something that comes up much. But if it does, it stomps the AC/5 pretty hard, 9 damage and a crit roll on every successful hit easily overcomes the extra weight in ammo necessary. The wierd thing is only one of the AoW statted tanks carries a heavy rifle.

>>50147035
Pretty much. I play in a universe without the rasalhague rollover, so it was pretty easy to write the lev off to a nuke on the 50th anniversary of FRR independence

File: cnc.png (281KB, 580x472px) Image search: [Google]

281KB, 580x472px

Which version of the Nova Cat emblem do you like the most?

>>50147060
Pretty much: 5 tons lighter, 1MP faster, longer range armament, no Jump jets, and was built with the design restriction of no energy weapons, but it ends up being about 0.5MCbills cheaper, but unfortunately only 77 BV cheaper

This one begins to show the Heat and ammo inefficiencies of the Heavy Rifles, but they still outperform AC/5s for damage efficiency in this model

>>50147168
>replacing bearwank with yet more WoBwank
How about fuck no

>>50147069
If you only have 1 or two, it's better enough than the AC/5 (Unless you're running really high heat), sure: it's a marginal improvement, but it's good enough, If you need to demolish a building in an objective, or to remove cover, or if you can pierce a mech's armour, in those situations, dealing 9 damage, they're basically cheap ac/10s with better range

>>50147168
Motherfuckers killed two of the beasts in direct combat. That's more than anyone else can say.

>>50147282
2/10, it's not wank if you die

>>50147470
But they didn't die. They escaped into thin air with several WarShips, a superweapon, a military the size of most dark age armies and severel sekret clubhouse factory worlds. Their asses are in better shape after dying than several of the factions who beat them were by 3100

>>50147522
>YFW the ilclan plotline is just the original jihad plotline reused

>>50147470
Don't reply to obvious b8.

>>50147233
The upper right, followed by the upper left. Not really a fan of the DA clickytech version which is the lower left. Not familiar with the lower right.

Other than the bulldog, scropion, and the 85-100 ton behemoths, what other tanks are in battletech.

Preferably ones I can use GHQ models to represent

>>50147522
Nothing the Bears couldn't kill singlehandedly, and as a faction they're dead until they reappear. Wouldn't be the first loose thread that never got touched on again.

>>50147658
Vedette, Chevalier (proxy a Centauro for it), Po, Merk, a shitton.

File: column.jpg (2MB, 2560x1440px) Image search: [Google]

2MB, 2560x1440px

>>50147658
The Manticore, Po and Rommel/Patton for starters, plus the Ontos if you like lightshows.

>>50147570
I just want to see some old school WoB assassinate Stone. It would be perfect after all the DA bullshit and him finally waking up in 3150.

Imagine seeing some Kael Pershaw-tier old cyborg going "I got that sumabitch. I finally got im!"

>>50147757
Would be too neat to happen.

>>50147658
LRM/SRM carrier (that russian multi missile launcher system)

Rebarrelled Stug as a Predator tank destroyer (dark age unit)

>>50146476
Rifles also do full damage to battle armor, IIRC.

>>50147658
Schrek
Harasser
J. Edger
Saladin
Saracen
Scimitar
Maxim
Drillson
Striker
Galleon

>>50147935
None of them are gonna be proxied with GHQ models though.

>>50148009
I dunno, you could probably proxy some sort of MRLS/ATGM vehicle as a Striker, and the Galleon could be proxied by an armored car (except for the sponson guns)

Are there any WoB 'Mechs (or variants of general 'Mechs) still in use in the Dark Age?

>>50148589

Yes, and the RotS has more than a dew.

It's pretty much only the Celestials and ones strongly associated with atrocities that got wiped out.

>>50148589
The Phoenix variants are most likely still in use, and I think the non-Celestials weren't thrown into any suns either, so you can probably still get Gurkhas, Bucaneers, Toyamas and Gallants.

>>50148589
Banshee BNC-9S

File: tro3058-p122-detail.jpg (94KB, 843x621px) Image search: [Google]

94KB, 843x621px

>>50144942
At least one printing of the old TR:3058 listed Jump MP of 4, but didn't allocate any mass for jump jets.

>>50147233
Bottom left, but I'd be curious to see the top right redone with half as prominent marbling and the colors tuned halfway to match the bottom left.

It's weird how the two on top look better to me in thumbnail while the two on the bottom look better close up.

>>50149131
>>50149183
>>50149315
What are some common ones? Like if a salvage crew found a derelict dropship with a Level II of 'Mechs and a squad's worth of BA, what would be the most common of the Blakist designs to find?

Also what do players here think of the Phoenix variants?

>>50150339
>lso what do players here think of the Phoenix variants?

Can be pretty good, but the Project Phoenix designs themselves have a certain stigma as there were some very vocal sections of the fanbase that pushed for them to completely replace the unseens back in the day. And I mean some of the real shitty looking OG 3067 ones, not the 3085 facelifts.

Now that it's all settled, it's not terrible. The Liao marauder looks like you would expect a Liao marauder to look like, all cheap easy to repair flat angles over an old skeleton. The problem was applying that look across the board to every faction that started to make variants off that upgrade.

WoB Mad II is surprisingly good. You would think IJJ's are wasted on something that big but it drives a lot like the old 4A
Plasma Mad is pretty good but really expensive BV wise.
WoB Griffin is good.
FWLM/WoB Battlemaster is good but doesn't really feel like a Beemer

I haven't really used much of the others

>>50147757
There's nothing wrong with Devlin Stone.

>>50150339
If you're just finding stuff, you'd probably find IS Standards or Tornado G13s.

>>50150339
Purifier was the most common WoB battle armour so if anything you'd find some of those.

>>50150842
>Tornado G13's
Probably some old G12's too if it was WoBM.

>tfw no abandoned dropship full of G17's
I want my flying monkey core.

>>50151014
*corps

A new booru opened up. It had images from Battletech, Dougram, Macross and I think a tiny bit of Crusher Joe since the Locust came from that anime series.
The pics are not tagged yet, but there are over 5,000 of them. It's unorganized to hell, but whatever. /btg/ with a little help has it's own booru image board.

http://bgb.booru.org/index.php?page=post&s=list&tags=all

It's a mess, but it's a start.

>>50149538
Huh

>>50151205
Could this be, dare I say, /ourbooru/?

>>50151254
Yes, I think.
I don't know who put it up, but there's thousands of pics on the site, and they are dated as having been put up within the last day or so. Somebody cares.

What are some of the most popular non-omnis among the Clans? Preferably ones that are Clan-original, not the Warhammer IIC or whatever.

>>50151205
the fuck is a booru

What's the BAR of mechs?

>>50151666
Mackie, maybe?

>>50151491
An permanent image board, like danbooru where you can put up pics and comment on them. It's like a version of photobucket.

>>50151491
http://booru.org/
>A booru is a next-gen imageboard where people can tag images so that other users can find them more easily.

>>50151666
What's a BAR, Satan?

>>50151666
10 unless you purposefully install special crap armour.

File: JagerMech JM6-SP.png (53KB, 613x915px) Image search: [Google]

53KB, 613x915px

>>50151666
BAR as in armor grade? 10.
BAR as in Browning Assault Rifle? Probably the Enforcer or Vindicator.

Speaking of Rifles, from earlier, it made me think of this silliness. Now you too can be a pirate in a JagerMech with no access to laser weapons.

>>50151456
Kodiak for one

>>50151990
>>50152085
What does BAR mean besides Browning Automatic Rifle?

>>50152144
Barrier Armor Rating.

Very new guy here, sorry if it's a stupid question but can someone explain how through armor criticals work? Does the location hit matter?

>>50152274

If you roll a 2, there's a chance for a crit in the location you rolled even though you didn't pierce the armour. That's it.

If you're using the floating criticals option, you roll on the hit location table again to see where the chance for the TAC actually goes, but otherwise it's the same.

>>50146352
Idk I'd drop something that's not armor for a ton of AC ammo. 15 shots means you can regularly take shots at 9+ and not sweat it, you tend to be a lot more liberal with your shots so you run the bins dry quicker.

Also personally I'd rip out everything that's not an AC 10 and shove in another AC 10.

>>50152340
>>50146352
That or go ham and bring only heavy rifles. Fuck the Sphere coming straight from the Periphery.

File: battletech_hit_and_damage_process.jpg (303KB, 1080x751px) Image search: [Google]

303KB, 1080x751px

>>50152274
>Very new guy here, sorry if it's a stupid question but can someone explain how through armor criticals work? Does the location hit matter?

Since you're a very new guy, you're probably just following the basic rules. Under the basic rules, when you roll a '2' for hit location, that means you hit the appropriate torso location - left torso if shooting at the left side, center torso if shooting at the front or rear, and right torso if shooting from the right - with a "lucky shot" that has a chance to inflict a critical hit even if that torso still has armour left to protect it.

Roll again on the "Determining Critical Hits" table to see just how lucky you are. On a 2-7, it was just a hit against the armour, and no internal components were damaged. On a roll of 8-9, in addition to damaging the armour, one random critical location in that torso is also damaged. For 10-11, it increases to two random critical locations, and, if you're lucky enough to roll a '12', you destroy three.

The attached picture simplifies things a bit, but it covers most normal situations.

>>50140734
>ROTS naval superiority doctrine
>the problem is that the doctrine itself is HORRIFICALLY unoptimized. It makes complete sense to somebody in-universe with no hands-on experience of modern naval combat,
>The doctrine makes sense in pure theory but when you actually apply it it's almost certain to completely fall apart.

I really, really want to know what this is. I can't even imagine what there is that hasn't already been done. What are the naval doctrines at this point? "Spam NAC-boats", "drown them in McKennas", "drown them in ASFs", "Ramming speed", and "lose horribly to the people doing any of the previous". I think that's basically it.

I guess you could be deliberately using K-F drives as anti-ship weapons. That hasn't really been done as a widespread doctrine so far.

>>50152982
You forgot "Build a boatload of missile satts and drone PWS"

>>50153022

Not really a warship doctrine, though.

File: image.jpg (93KB, 681x1024px) Image search: [Google]

93KB, 681x1024px

What's your favorite mech from a faction you don't really like (or even hate)?

>>50153206
Isn't the Grasshopper a CC mech? I like that little brawler.

>>50153206
Nova Cat from the Nova Cats. They're a dumb clan for dumb people, but goddamn is that 'Mech magnificent. That or the Savage Coyote/ the ATM. Fuck the Coyotes but the did make a sweet assault Omni/ the ATM. Also props for the use of Tay-Tay.

>>50153332
>They're a dumb clan for dumb people

I have been a BT fan for decades and I still have no idea what the fuck happened

Is Mechwarrior Tactics any good? I saw a you tube video and it looked kind of nice.

>>50153397
It's a cool idea that they decided to join the new SLDF in my opinion, but nothing really happened with that. And before that they were a clan of dumb mystics that got outdone by a bunch of rad as fuck mystics that shoot lsd and scorpion venom. Similar reason why I dislike the Cyotoes they sat on their ass after making zelllbrigen and halfheartedly tried to be mystics. Fuck off we don't need like four to six clans whose shtick is look at us we're mystics! And out of those Clans really only the Scorpions do it right.

And another thing that pisses me off about the cats the one time they get a vision that matters they ignore it! Fuck off! If you're going to be all about visions, mysticism, and divination fucking listen to it!. I had a dream that a white mist will kill my Clan. Better run into Tukayyid with minimal ammo and fight like a bunch of retards, no way that white mist represents the white of the Comstar forces. Fuck Nova Cat.

>>50153300

Dracs and (of course) Suns have the factories.

>>50153206
I like me some archers, but I don't like the SLDF

>>50153605
I kinda agree. I liked them at first but rereading their fluff they come off pretty dumb. Nova Cucks indeed.

>>50153581
It's dead, Jim. Sadly. From everything I've heard, it was a prettier but less detailed Megamek that was stuck in 3025.

>>50153605
Spirit Cats are OK tho

>>50153645
>of course
Until like the late 3050s or something the FedSuns actually had pretty mediocre mech production. Devastator retcon aside, of course.

>>50153206
Have her butt/thighs been shopped?

>>50153798
Yeah, because they hearken back to original CNC philosophy.

How come a lot of the Clan mechs from 2055 never became popular?

Vapor Eagle, Hellhound, Peregrine, Linebacker, pouncer, etc.

>>50153813

Only in the original House Book.

A lot of shit has been retconned in over the years in addition to stuff they started adding post War of 3039.

The 'Hopper plant for instance has now always been there.

>>50153870
Shit really? What else did they get? Where's the Grasshopper factory? I feel silly now.

>>50153852

Because they varied between "holy shit this is bad" so Clan players didn't want to use it (eg: Pouncer, Linebacker) and "holy shit this is good" so IS players bitch to the high heavens if you dare to field one (Black Python, Bane II, Warhammer IIC etc).

What are some mechs that hav been mentioned but never seen, such as the Storm Giant or Rising star? want to make a list after it was discussed recently

>>50153888

Just go look at HB: HD.

Which four would you pick for your lance?

>Cicada
>Assassin
>Quickdraw
>Clint
>Whitworth

>>50153798
>>50153842
Agree to disagree. They showed up and did stuff and then went back on their word about only following their visions and not allying with anyone, only to ally with Marik and the Sea Foxes. They felt like a despite attempt to make the Nova Cats relevant again, but failed.

>>50153754
Right on brother.

>>50154020

PPC Cicada, Clint, Whitworth, Quickdraw.

>>50154020
Quickdraw, clint, whitworth, cicada
Bears the most resemblance to an actual competent

>>50153823
Doesn't look like it to me. Maybe the thighs a little, but the butt is untouched.

>>50154020
I fucking kill myself cause why has God forsaken me. But honestly got to go with >>50154050 and >>50154076 is the best combination. You could argue for the Assassin in place of the Whitworth but I'd take the Assassin if I could use the ASN-30 Assassin Alice, because it's hard to say no to meds tied to a targ comp.

>>50153945

Aside from those two the only one I can remember is the Cameroon, mentioned in the Icestorm fluff as its progenitor.

Everything else has been filled in with Historicals and Primitives.

>>50152339
>>50152835
Thanks. I appreciate it.

>>50151205
This is pretty cool. Looks like a lot of work needs to be done though.

>>50152982
IIRC he mentioned it was Spinals and Naval C3 at one point.

>>50154280

Naval C3 isn't too bad but Mass Drivers are even more useless than capital missiles thanks to the nose hex only firing lane, the to-hit penalty, and their truncated range.

If I was building something to beat a Leviathan II/III it would be a 2.5 MT deathblob laden down with NACs and armour even heavier than the Leviathan. I might dig up one of my attempts at it and post it later.

>>50153870
>Has always been there

Grasshopper is out of production completely after the second war. That means the Jalastar mention in HB:HD is either a typo or a refit line. Objectives:Federated Suns confirms this by only listing the famous Panpour Javelin line for Battlemech production by Jalastar.

Interestingly, I had thought that the mid-3050's had production coming back online but 3050U states that every single last upgrade and variant are refits of existing chassis except rumors that the Blakists have gotten the original Bryant plant back online and are sending all that sweet hopper production to Protectorate forces.

So not only do neither the Suns or the Dracs have any actual Grasshopper production, the only new ones in centuries were probably salvaged during SCOUR.
>but then they fuck up and say the Lexatech refit line is actual production in Objectives Draconis Combine

Get your fucking story straight CGL

>>50154367

Newest material beats older material.

HB:HD and HB: HK put factories in that have been there since at least 3040. Arguably longer given Panpour's opsec and how often they do "well ComStar was wrong" to cover their asses for making a fact-checking mistake.

Either way when they list things in the HB series it's always the factories and never the refit lines, otherwise the Marauder II (among others) would be listed for the Marian Hegemony.

>>50154367
for some reason I thought that the hopper was produced in the periphery somewhere, but I'm not actually sure where I got that

>>50154137
There're also the Daemon (3058), Vision Quest (TM), Fox (TM), and Minsk (TM).

I've seen someone mention the Pit Viper, but I never found a solid reference to it.

>>50154637

It's not.

Original production was on Bryant (CapCon/Tikonov) then factories were added for the Suns and Dracs. The XTRO 'Hopper was IIRC made on Arc-Royal.

It's a 'Mech that can pop up in the Periphery though for sure. It's been around a long while and is wide-spread but rare.

>>50153779
And they never told the players either.
They just weren't there one day. It was bullshit.

>>50154637
Probably because in the "unseen don't even fucking exist" era it was in common spots in some periphery RATs. This is also probably why some people think the vindicator is a common taurian machine

>>50154604
3050U and Objectives Federated Suns are both newer than HB:HD.

There's no dates for Panpour either. But I remember they didn't make shit in terms of battlemechs until they brought the Javelin line online post-clan invasion, since that was another design that was out of production for many many years.

HB:HK specifically states Lexatech had to reinvent itself to stay afloat after the destruction of their Stinger LAM factory and that they expanded their Hun Ho facilities during that time. There's no mention of them having any factory on Hun Ho prior to the Cerberus and no mention of them making the Grasshopper prior to the 6K which debued in 3064.

So still, no suns factories for Grasshoppers and none for the snakes until 3064 seems to be the current situation.

File: Pit Viper Record Sheet.png (3MB, 2168x1640px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2168x1640px

>>50154692

Pretty sure you meant this.

>>50154876
Is that from renegade legion?

>>50154824

For one, you're arguing that the books written by fucking MadCap and after Panpour was hit by the Taurians means the facility never had 'Hopper line.

For the other, we literally have HB: HD saying they have a factory.

Now if you really want to you can go to the OF and get an answer but the way things stand it's clear that at some point the Suns had a factory. And I've known about the Suns having the 'Hopper at Jalastar for a long-ass time IRL so if they hadn't intended it to be there they could have done something about it already.

In any case the point that the Suns have long been retconned to producing more than just Valkyries and whatever GM Kathil produced following the loss of Quentin and Marduk still stands.

>>50154912

Silent Death. It's probably the most pure fun in a starfighter-scale game I've ever had. It's superficially like playing ASFs-only Aerotech, but with basically all the annoying and fiddly parts taken out of it. Plus you can get minis at ~12 for $5.

>I positively HATE X-wing

>>50154876
Well the only place I've seen the Pit viper mentioned is the OF, where it's on the Mech list. Thread is here - http://bg.battletech.com/forums/index.php?topic=26543.0

Martian makes a post about it with more info, but I haven't been that motivated to investigate previously

>>50155001
>I positively HATE X-wing

Why's that? I've seen little about it but it's quite popular locally.

>>50155122
I'm not the dude who hates it, but I think that infinite loops and combos have no place in a tt wargame.

>>50154997
Of course you've known about it a long time. HB:HD came out almost ten years ago. But it is the only book that says Jalastar makes the hopper. Nothing before it does, and nothing after it does. That sounds like the Taurian hatchetman situation to me.

>>50155122
>Why's that? I've seen little about it but it's quite popular locally.

Four reasons, all of which are purely my opinion and thus not worth arguing about:

1) I just hate the gameplay. It's really, really not fun for me. I especially dislike the movement and initiative system.
2) I dislike the collectible nature of the game. While it's not collectible like ClickTech, the whole "you have to buy literally everything to get the pilot/equipment cards to be competitive against the people I talk about in #3" is close enough to irritate me.
3) Netlisting and hypercompetitive gaming abound in the Xwing community within 100 miles of me. As in, there are multiple people I know personally who keep lists of "number of newbies they've made quit the game." Basically the WAACs who drove away everyone else who played Warmachine got their hands on Xwing as well, and I want nothing to do with that community.
4) Star Wars to me are the movies, books, radioplays, and scripts. The EU is shit, and the equipment that comes from it is almost universally powerwank shit. Once X-wing started to pull stuff from the EU (such as the TIE Defender), I lost what tiny interest I had in it.

Thus, not particularly a fan of X-wing. I gave it a fair try through Waves 1 & 2, but it's just not my cup of tea.

>>50155202

That they actually had a factory but someone blew it up? Like I said?

And that's assuming MadCap even knew what he was doing by not including a line for it, which let me tell you having read his Objectives series is going out onto a limb.

>>50155122
>Well the only place I've seen the Pit viper mentioned is the OF

Huh, looking at that thread, that was pretty interesting. I was unaware that the Pit Viper wasn't the Nexus. Noted for future reference.

Also, go read your damn email and let me know if you need revisions. Having something to take my mind off the elections tomorrow will be something completely fine with me.

>>50155122
>Why's that? I've seen little about it but it's quite popular locally.
I'm not a huge fan, but I like the figures, and I'm decent at it. I've got every TIE and most of the Rebel fighter fleet on my desk. K-Wing a best.

>>50155252
>Hates the TIE Defender
Movie purists leave. The movie ships are good, yes, but some of my favorite designs come from the novels.

>>50155315
Will do, will get some more material to you this afternoon/tonight

>>50155309
I tried to find where it was stated, and you know what? In JHS:3076, there's a little post-battle single paragraph about some militia guy talking about how they kept two Taurian dropships from landing. Nothing else mentions the system at all. Then in the review timeline for JHS:Terra there's one short sentence that say the Jalastar mech lines got fucking wrecked. Nothing that says which lines though. No wonder I missed it. That shit is supposed to be review, not completely new info.

Before that I was like "When the hell did they hit Panpour?" Middale, Wyatt, Bromhead, Kathil and New Syrtis sure, but I never remembered a big battle at Panpour.

>>50155252
>The EU is shit, and the equipment that comes from it is almost universally powerwank shit
M8 I like you but I will fucking fight you.
Outside of literally three vidyagames there's about fuck-all as powerwank ships goes

>>50155340
>favorite designs come from the novels.

Min-max powerwank one and all. Strapping a bunch of guns to a fighter (and you'll note there's *always* more guns than the last fighter) and naming it after a letter of the alphabet doesn't make for good fighter design.

I'm sorry; you're good BattleTech people, but if you find yourself defending any media or franchise in which Kevin J Anderson is a writer, then your taste in that franchise is shit by definition.

A collaboration between CS Goto and Loren Coleman would produced a better EU than what we actually got.

File: UO8OmL5.jpg (423KB, 900x1350px) Image search: [Google]

423KB, 900x1350px

>>50155369

Copy that. Thanks, man.

I'm faffing around with hand-built protos right now, so have the best Erinyes for your troubles.

>>50155432
>best Erinyes is a nearly-nude hispanic woman

...wut? I bet she can't even accelerate an asteroid to .01c

>>50155390

>there's about fuck-all as powerwank ships goes

Sun Crusher. Eclipse. Darksabre.

You really don't wanna go there, dude.

>>50155432

...I do not know how I got that picture instead of my FD Proto picture, but she is also probably an Erinyes and thusly I refuse to apologize.

File: digit.gif (5MB, 391x250px) Image search: [Google]

5MB, 391x250px

>>50155432
>>50155475

cheers m8

>>50155409
>Min-max powerwank one and all. Strapping a bunch of guns to a fighter (and you'll note there's *always* more guns than the last fighter) and naming it after a letter of the alphabet doesn't make for good fighter design.
You're so full of shit that it's coming outta your ears. There's at the high end two ships match that description even vaguely and they're both noted *in universe* to be flawed craft, which is why people still use X-wings instead of them

>>50155409
Considering I've gone up to KJA and asked why he was involved in the Dune novels at all, I'm not defending his books. I will defend Jedi Prince in all its atrocious cheese forever though. It's just too fun. DARK GREETINGS. What I am defending is a bomber that isn't shit at its job and can do CAS, as well as a TIE that can outfight the X-Wing on its own terms.

>>50155432
Truly an Erinyes we all deserve.

>>50155457
Oh, yeah. Superweapon creep was a real and idotic thing. I thought he meant regular-joe fighters and capital ships and such

>>50155001
>I positively HATE X-Wing

I have a very low opinion of literally every Star Wars thing FFG has done, so I feel you.

>>50155497
>I will defend Jedi Prince in all its atrocious cheese forever though. It's just too fun. DARK GREETINGS
You are my true brother and a real hero.
Battletech moffship when?

>>50149538
Probably the same printing that featured the Alacorn's "deristrative repower", a typo so ridiculous that those in my old group still use the phrase decades later.

>>50155512

The later X-Wings and stuff like the E-Wing were pretty retarded too.

The Thrawn trilogy was awesome, then you get a real mix of shit between it and the Vong stuff. By the Vong books the setting has gone full retard and there's no way back.

Comics at least usually had an interesting idea even if the execution was utterly retarded.

>>50155554
>"deristrative repower"

A what the fuck now?

>>50154876
>>50155001


Instead of arguing over the indefensiblely bad writing of the Star Wars extended universe, could you tell us some more about Silent death? The record sheet looks neat.

>>50155565
Nah bro, the comics generally were awesome. Probably the best medium of the EU by a light-year.

>>50155565
>By the Vong books the setting has gone full retard and there's no way back.
Yeah, absolutely. I and about 95% of star wars fans who are into the EU outside of reddit agree with you on that

File: comstar sb color plate.png (1MB, 840x1090px) Image search: [Google]

1MB, 840x1090px

>>50155122
>>50155315
>"Pictured above are three ComStar battlemechs. Clockwise from the upper left they are: the Grand Crusader, the Galahad, and the Star Python"

Considering all three ComStar 'Mechs got into TR:3058, I'd bet the "Star Python" name is what inspired that author to add rumors of a ComStar Battle Cobra.

>>50155606
I remember the Dark Horse comics being pretty good. Never got big into Star Wars EU though.

File: Salamander Record Sheet.png (3MB, 2160x1600px) Image search: [Google]

3MB, 2160x1600px

>>50155583

Sure. Here's a tour around a record sheet.

The pictured ship sheet is for a Salamander (use the one on the left), which is pretty much the "general purpose" fighter in SD. It's got decent speed, decent armor, and a gun for every occasion.

Taking a tour around the sheet:

#1: Crew Stats. Crew are rated from 1-10. The higher the better. As your Piloting skill goes up, the associated die (seen next to the skill) DROPS from 1d10 to 1d4. As your Gunnery goes up, the associated die INCREASES - again from a d4 to a d10.

#2: Drive: The number in the box (16) is how many MP the ship has available. Generally speaking, it costs 1 MP to enter a hex, and 3 MP to turn 1 hexside. You can only turn 1 hexside at a time. However, there's a thing called a "tight turn". Basically, you can turn any number of hexsides you want, but it costs a number of MP equal to 3+ your Piloting die roll. In this Salamander's case, a tight turn would cost between 4 and 9 MP. If you don't have enough MP to make the turn, you stall out in the hex (IIRC you can't shoot either that turn, but don't quote me on that).

#3: Shooting things: This is a weapon box - an Impulsegun to be specific. Each weapon has a specific range, and some have specific rules (bottom right corner of the record sheet gives ranges and special rules; the Impulsegun has no special rules). This weapon is fixed forward (the "F"), while others (such as the Pulse Laser) can fire 360 degrees. When you fire a weapon, you roll the indicated dice, plus the firer's Gunnery Die. Since this is a pilot-fired weapon, we'd use a d4. We sum up the total and compare it against...

#4: The Defensive Value. Each ship has a different one. If the Salamander is firing at another Sally, it would require a total value of 12 on the attack dice to hit. So, for example, let's say our Salamander rolled a 7, a 5, and 2 on the three dice. That totals out to a 14, which is a hit. Now we proceed to...

>>50155737

#5: Damage Reduction. OK, so we've hit the Salamander. How much damage do we do? Well, the Damage Rating for an Impulsegun is "High". That means you take the HIGHEST-scoring die value as the amount of damage dealt. In this case, it's a "7". An important thing to note here is that if you have multiple "scoring" die for damage, you total them up. So if we'd rolled two 7s (2d8) and a 2 (on the 3rd 1d8 from Gunnery Skill) for our attack roll, our base damage would be 14.

Also note that the damage for the Splatterguns firing from your rear is "medium+2". So it's exactly like it sounds. Take the middle die, and add 2. That's your base damage value.

Now damage reduction comes into play. This is the ship's armor, and you simply subtract the current Damage Reduction Value in the diamond from the damage. 7-3=4. Thus, we deal 4 points of damage. Now we head down to...

#6: The Damage Track. We took 4 points of damage, so cross off 4 boxes. You'll note that in box 3, there's a box with a "16" in it. Where else on the sheet do we see a box? That's right. The Drive System. Our Drive system has been damaged by the attack, and starting next turn, our Drive Value is equal to the highest uncrossed damage box (so it's reduced to a 15). All damage works like this. If you cross out a diamond, that same mechanic applies to Damage Reduction. "W"'s are weapon damage. A capital W means your opponent chooses a weapon to destroy, and a lower-case w means you choose which weapon to lose. Same with "T"'s, only that stands for Torpedoes. Finally, Asterisks are critical hits. Cross out an asterisk, roll on the ship-specific critical hit chart on the right-hand side of the sheet.

Oh, and if you run out of damage track, well, the big-ass "X" at the end means You Dead.

>>50155512
Fighters like Virago or Bes'uliik?

>>50155664
>I'd bet the "Star Python" name is what inspired that author to add rumors of a ComStar Battle Cobra.
I'm dumb. Strike "Star Python," replace with "Pit Viper."

>>50155737
>>50155753

#7: Miscellaneous equipment. P-D stands for Point-defense - used against missiles and torpedoes. Decoys help get rid of torpedoes. D-con is Damage control. Roll 1d10 at the end of turn, and if the roll falls
into the listed range (1-6), you get that many boxes of damage back. However, you can't recover lost torpedoes.

#8: Point value. Easy enough. each ship has a listed point value. Add all the pilot and gunnery ratings found in the Crew Box to the base point value (BPV) to get the Total Point Value (TPV). The TPV for our Salamander would be 66+2+8, for a total of 76 points. Intro games tend to be about 100-150 points per side. Bigger games tend up around 750.

Note that cheap ships have hard time swarming larger ones due to a) armor (cheap ships tend to have "low" ratings on their weapons, so they have problems breaking through damage reductions of more than ~4-5), and b) their damage tracks are TINY. Like, 10-20 boxes or so. The Sally is a 45-box track, and there are heavy fighters up around 100 boxes as well. The game rewards a balanced flight group.

That's 90% of the game right there. There's some stuff I didn't talk about - notably torpedoes, which stay on the board for multiple turns and have their own drive and maneuver systems. Missile systems also do things like require lock-on rolls. There are corvette-class ships that are Millennium Falcon-ish in size and have a bunch of gunners and multiple damage tracks (there are no true capital ships, though).

But for basic "gun-armed ships", this is basically everything. You can - and I have - explained the game to new players in 10 minutes, and have had them playing 95% unassisted in under a half-hour.

File: Orion_variant_tree.png (102KB, 2068x993px) Image search: [Google]

102KB, 2068x993px

>how many layers of onions can you have?

Inspired by anon's Atlas family tree. Here's an Orion tree.

>>50155457
>Darksaber
>A lowest-bidder built POS so horrifically bad that it fails the first time it tries to fire and is immediately destroyed
>powerwank

...Dude, what?

>>50155858
Orion -VA is an Orion -V that ditched the LRMs to bring back the lost armor of the -V and add HS, not any more SRMs.

>>50155566
The first printing of TRO 3058 was subject to enough errors that it was obvious it didn't get even a single proofreading pass. That was one of the worst, it was bad enough to become an injoke.

>>50155858
>Not ending it with Constuctionmechs in 3090
I'm still butthurt about it.

>>50155911
I have that printing. It's pretty goddamn bad

>>50155908
IM GONNA FIX IT DONT KILLL MEEEEEE NOOOO.

Once i fix this i will post it again on the new thread.

Also gimme suggestions on a mech to tree-diagram with.

>>50156097
Marauder? Woodsman?

>>50156097
>Also gimme suggestions on a mech to tree-diagram with.
The thunderbolt and warhammer would be fun due to how many variants exist

thred ded maek new thred

>>50156125
>>50156128
Woodsman it is.

Also
>thunderbolt and warhammer
ay lmao i want to be a sane person who browses /tg/ not an insane one.

>>50156097
Do a Hetzer one

>>50155858
Technically missing the Orion C, a new variant made by the Wolves in the DA. Though we only have the description from TRO 3150 of an ON2-M with ferro-lam, streak LRMs and ER pulses, no actual RS yet.

>>50156349
Its not on the MUL so I wont throw it on there unless tons of publications make consistent mention of it.

New thread?

>>50155409
Mate you're a fucking retarded, y'know that? Or did you just stop after the Black Fleet crisis clusterfuck of a trilogy and decide to be salty about everything else forever?

>>50155862

Hutts, man. Hutts.

>>50157494

I included it in my initial list as an example of their focus on stupid super-weapons mainly because it was a stupid super-weapon with a goofy name.

I mean if you wanna get down to it the second Death Star worked just about as well.

Also kinda bummed they went back to the Death Star well for force Awakens, but eh. Rogue One is doing the same thing but at least it's set in the past rather than being a new movie in the series.

New thread:
>>50157716
>>50157716
>>50157716

File: lamefagget.jpg (385KB, 1920x700px) Image search: [Google]

385KB, 1920x700px

>>50153852
>Linebacker

Shit in lore, shit in tabletop, and it'll be irredeemably shit in MWO.

Thus the cycle is complete.