Vague numbers but It says in the Black Legion supplement that

>500000

a typo, one 0 too much

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>>50112882
living in the warp tends to make you far away from imperial space.

you big fucking goober.

Stop trying to make some kind of sense out of the 40k lore. Everything is mostly made up on the fly and only there to sound kinda cool.

>>50112882
Imperial marines are more operator than Chaos Marines. It is known.

#1: When the light of the astronomicon reaches the eye of terror, it creates demon-like creatures that are not sentient and will attack ships.

#2: Imperial guard regiments are still there and make up for it in terms of numbers

#3: The codex says no more than 2,000 in a company. They bypass this rule by having different companies. Many more loyalists than what you calculated.

#4: Chaos is chaos. They don't care to go and take cadia until they have proper motivation, and even then they know Abbadon will probably leave them to die there.

Chaos numbers wary, I assume they often simply summon their fallen brothers back into some kind of armoured "shells" so they can keep fighting, until they die again for some reason, and eventually are given rebirth with some daemonic chaos rituals.
Their recruitment seems quite low, and chances for proper mobilization seem quite low in the Eye.

There may be as few as a million Chaos Marines, or as many as 3-5 million, depending on what the story in question requires.
The setting is so large, we have no idea how crowded the Eye is, or how many numerous warbands of CSMs roam the rest of the galaxy.

Numbers are not supposed to make sense when it comes to chaos and chaos mathematics.

As for loyalists, once again, there exist as many chapters as the story requires. Some of them are understrength, others larger. Nothing like shady chapters hiding their real strength by splitting themselves into various smaller fleets.

The Imperium has an unknown gigantic amount of planets, almost infinite amount of soldiers, massive amount of conflicts raging in every direction and untold amount of Spesch Mehriins fighting heresy in unknown numbers.

Any number is possible, if the story so requires.

(just look at Druchi in WHFB; almost no pop growth, always dying, but there will always be enough Druchi to die in wars if the story so requires)

>>50112882
Well Op you see the answer is easy EMPRA

>>50112882
Chaos, as the name suggests, struggles to operate as a unified entity. Just because there's two million Chaos Marines in the galaxy doesn't mean they're all working towards the same ends and the same time. They also don't necessarily have access to the same width of allies as the Imperium does - Daemons can be difficult to summon and direct, Cults are useless as anything other than cannon fodder, and rogue IG regiments tend to be busted by the Imperium before they can meet up with the wider Chaos fraternity. While on the flipside, the Imperium obviously has the Guard, Sisters, Mechanicus, Inquisitorial private armies, assassins, and others to even the odds.

But a lot of it is due to bad writing and the magic of protagonist power. You'll routinely see jaded, ten thousand year old Chaos veterans being scythed down by Loyalists because they're the Baddies and in the end Baddies need to lose.

>>50112882

Because the Imperium is much more than just marines, in fact marines are the smallest part of its forces.

>>50112948
>and chances for proper mobilization seem quite low in the Eye.

There a thousands of worlds in or close to the Eye of Terror. Many of those are filled to the brim with human cultists and the like. Recruitment still happens and these deadly worlds make for great aspirants.

>>50113134

And Abaddon only has marines, no traitor regiments, no titans, no fleets, no cultists and mutants. Yeah...

>>50112882
Chaos Marines a whole lot of the time fight like retards, and their equipment is vastly inferior, if not for Chaos fuckery and heretek inventions.

>>50112882
you vastly exaggerate their numbers.

20 Space Marine Chapters are set to watch on the eye of terror at all times, that's around 20k Space Marines keeping Abbadong and his thousands of thousands chaos loonies in check.

Chaos BTFO

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>>50112882
True battles are fought and won in space, orbital strikes don't care how many marines are on the ground, if there are no Emperor-tier psyker to keep the fleet away with his force of will.

>>50112882
You got actual sources with page numbers for any of those numbers because otherwise everything you said is bullshit.

>>50113378

That is exactly what I am talking about. twenty chapter. 20k Marines. Black Legion alone is 400k. How the fuck do they keep them in check.

>>50113275
and yet, unlike the Loyalists, the Traitors know fear.

All these countless Legions of Cultists, Chaos Space Marines, Titan Legions, they all have the parasitic flaw that is fear, and they would turn tail and run before dying for their cause.

and because of that the Traitors will never overcome the loyalists, not even if they had a million years to do it.

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>>50113378
And its Failddon he could have the chaosgods them self with him and he maybe would be able to destroy a bastion on cadia before retrating the the eye of therror for another 30 minuts or so before he starts his next crusade

>>50113483
>>50113484
There is no count of 400,000 in any capacity in the Black Legion supplement. OP is a faggot.

>>50113275
He got titans and good fleet ships tho

>>50113484
Abbadon does not have the fleet to safely transport his 400k anywhere in force.

He has no trusted leutenants, when he ships his 400k out of the eyes protection, the Imperial Navy and Marine Fleets would have taken a heavy toll on his forces before he could get them anywhere.

1000k CSMs on Cadia are useless if Abbadon can't control the orbit to protect them from Bombardment.

>>50113275
Bullshit. Several sources point out that his non-Astartes fleet of human soldiers/cultists dwarfs anything Horus ever commanded and that was half the Galaxy...and this doesn't even mention the impossible size of his Daemonic servants. He also commands the Dark Mechanicus with all of their Daemon Machines and Daemon Titans.

>>50112882
The numbers of space marines are one of my main gripes with WH40k, any notion of scale goes out the window when you talk about the Space Marines. A Chapter should be compromised of a hundred thousand marines at minimum, not just a thousand to cover a planet, and the Legions should have millions of Marines at their disposal. Even if they were armoured superhumans, I don't really see how a hundred or a thousand soldiers could threaten a whole damn planet.
/rant

>>50113627

that post was sarcastic anon

>>50112882
Because they
A. Fight each other as well
B. Are poorly organized at best
C. Constantly are loosing more of their number to mutations and warp fuckery
D. The Chaos Gods have already essentially won the galaxy, destroying the Imperium would leave them with no unifying force and would kill too much life to support the gods themselves.

>>50112935
>Daemons being made when the lighjt of the astronomican hits the eye of terror

I've never heard of this before, what's that from?

>>50112882
Really quick- could anyone Photoshop Trump's head on Abaddon's body?

Thanks.

>>50115297
>Trump's head
>Not Hillary's head
>Not seeing Trump as the glorious Emperor of mankind

>>50115513
>>Not seeing Trump as the glorious Emperor of mankind
But he isn't. Trump hates Iran and Saudi Arabia.

>>50115573
Have you seen a single arab in Wh40k?

>>50115573
BTFO by
>>50115844

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>>50115844
curiously enough "Egypt" made it all the way to the unification wars, but racist Emprah never recruited spesch mehrines from there?

maybe they got BLAMmed?

>>50115844
Neither a single murrican.
>>50115998
Persia and arabia are around.
See that orange blob in the middle.

>>50115844
Yes, Arab characters appear a lot in 30K,

>>50115208
Talon of Horus novel.

The Firetide chapter.

>>50112882
What is a few hundred thousand space marines compared to the billion trillion citizens of the imperium?

>>50115844
>Have you seen a single arab in Wh40k?
Iran was Emperor's closest ally since the beggining of Unification wars, Pale Nomads legion was formed from bedouins nobility.

>>50116066
>Neither a single murrican

False. Merika is mentioned several times in the HH books. The IW recruit heavily from there and it is mentioned as the cultural capital of Earth

>>50116140
>Merika is mentioned several times in the HH books
Yeah as the last enemy of Emperor.

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>>50116161
>America defying tyrants 28000 years in the future

FUCK YEAH

>>50112882
Chaos is like Orks they spend 90% of there time fighting eachother until someone strong enough comes along smacks some heads together and points them at the imperium

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>>50116294
>defeated by Arik Taranis
Also, Merika was ruled my Tyrant.

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>>50116140
so that is why no one else seems to like IW and why they also feels superior to all the rest despite being just more grumpy about everything

also the superior firepower from distance trope seems to be fitting if they have Murican connections, IW seem to favour bombarding in favour of melee.

>>50116371
>Also, Merika was ruled by Tyrant.

>>50115844
Tallaran Desert Raiders
>>50115998
Very likley became Thousand Sons

>>50116390
>favour of melee.

yeah no shit. no army has favored melee since the Aztecs got wiped out. Also IW were mainly British so lol

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>>50116420
>sandpeople
>become dusty sandmarines

it's pottery

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>>50116420
Donno they look pretty withe to me

also i dont think they became the thousend sons, Its pretty unlikely i think desu

>>50116492
Tallaran's are ripped from Lawrence of Arabia, they have both whites and Arabs.

And if the Mongolian themed legion is Made up of Mongols, The Viking marines out of Nordics, etc.. It isnt that big a leap to think the Egyptian themed Marines have Egyptians amoung their ranks.

>>50116492
Ahriman was middle eastern

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also where all the African/Latino marines at?
Indians, Indonesians?
it's like the Big E is some kind of Aryan supremacist, or just has a fetish for Latin names in general

>>50116492
>Its pretty unlikely i think desu
In Thousand Sons novel Ahriman mentioned Achaemenid Empire as his homeland and one of the first Emperor allies in Unification wars. Terran Raven Guard was formed from arabs slavers (that's why Corax hate them).

>>50116580
>Thinking the empire of mankind isn't a fascist nazi circle jerk
The whole SpaceMarine Codex
>Kill all XENOS

>>50116580
Fists are Latino and I think and IIRC the Luna Wolves and Raven Guard recruited heavily from India and Indonesia.

Though it should be noted the Pan Pacific region was very against the Emperor so it should be assumed their populations were ravaged by war and therefore not heavily recruited (though this could mean they were perfect candidates for the Imperial Heralds)

>>50116580
They're likley in the Legions without a strong ''X Culture in Space'' theme, like the Death Guard or Salamanders.

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>>50116649
>>Kill all XENOS
Not humans

>>50112882
>There are said to be over 100 thousand Word Bearers
Word Bearer trilogy mentions that the Black Legion outnumber the Word Bearers 10 to 1, so that's probably a bit optimistic.

>>50116736
Well the Black Legion isn't all true Sons of Horus, it's anyone from any other legion who falls under Abaddon's command

>>50116736
>Word Bearer trilogy
Old fluff.

>>50116698
Death Guard are confirmed to be Albanians and Salamanders secret along with the Alpha Legion and Space Wolves

>>50116767
It's never been super ceded.

>>50116841
you're mums vag has been super seeded

>>50116140
Well in that case tallarn counts.
>>50116390
Iron Warriors will always be my favorite chaos legion.

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>>50117137
>Iron Warriors
>Chaos

>>50116580
The Emperor probably made Latin itself. It's unknown what the connection between the big E and the roman empire was, but he clearly loved the hell out of it.
>also where all the African/Latino marines at?
Indians, Indonesians?
If I wouldn't say that three of those had civilizations, I'm sure the Emperor would just call them all savages. He wouldn't be wrong, either.
I don't know much about Indonesia, so I'm reserving judgement.

Also, consider that some space marine legions are based on civilizations and cultures that have yet to even be born in the second millenium. The Alpha Legion could very well be based on a planet of 20th millenium 21chan shitposters.

>>50117181
Iron Warriors are Choas
Do you think of Iron Hands Anon?

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>>50117181
Traitor, whatever. If you put that eight pointed star on your shoulder, I think it's fair to say you've joined chaos.

>>50113443
This.
Why the fuck do any ground forces (including marines) matter?

Logically speaking, given the size and power of ships and the importance of interstellar travel for keeping the imperium together and not starving, void warfare should absolutely dominate all strategic considerations in 40k.

>>50112882
Cadia is a hell of a chokepoint.

>>50117532
Don't you mean plotpoint?

>>50117137
I can honestly see why they were disliked. They were elite superhuman special forces focused almost entirely on warfare by attrition. As a result, even rank and file Space Marines were expendable, and there was constant intriguing to rise in the ranks so that they could be the ones feeding their fellow marines into the meat grinder rather than vice versa.

And given even Iron Warriors were considered expendable, their associated Imperial Army assets were basically eaten alive.

At the very least, Rogal Dorn would not have enacted ritual decimation on something as priceless as a Legion of Space Marines. Perturabo's tactics always seemed to rely on throwing men and materials at a problem until it stopped being a problem, and the Iron Cage was brilliant because it involved a lot more subterfuge and turning what first seemed to be a siege into a vicious guerilla war.

>>50117544
Not anymore.

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>>50117703
it's extra retarded when you consider that most enemies probably could easily be killed by orbital strikes.
the amount of worlds where you absolutely need boots on ground should be close to zero.

even if the enemy just digs in, make their fortress into a buried graveyard, let them rot in their tunnels like rats.

>>50117991
Eh, it's 40k. Fuck logic.

>>50112882
Don't forget cultists and traitor guardsmen.

>>50117991
The goal of war is not to defeat the enemy; it is to take their shit.

If you blow up all the infrastructure on the planet you just captured, why bother capturing it at all? For the same expense as repairing it, you could just go colonize somewhere else.

>>50118023
because brutal grimdark imperium, all enemies die if they don't comply

Great Crusade was not always about conquering planets intact, often they just blasted hostile xenos planets because "fhuuuuhck xenos "

blasting away certain enemy cites or forts hardly kills the entire planet

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>>50117991
Yes but it wouldnt be as bad ass like hand to hand combat with fucking chainswords and axes even tho you got a fucking full auto grenade launcher that is power full enough to one hit everthing.

To quote Hourus McDaddyIssues: Some vermin you have to kill personally to ensure they are dead (Or something along those lines its been a while since i read the first books of the HH)

>>50116131
Persians =/= Arabs, you retarted nigger

>>50117290

Boarding actions, taking out planetary defence weapons that can wreck large ships, capturing high value things you dont want to glass from orbit, ect.

You know, the small scale battles 40k used to represent.

>>50118196
>Persians =/= Arabs,
Most of words in Iranian language are arabic.

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>>50118186
Imperium should just develop proper orbital weapons system, but they're retarded

But no, they insist on using classic WW2 human wave attack formations
which even the Soviets had to abandon in the end, because they were running low on manpower reserves


I would honestly wish to see Legions perform better, launching attacks with combined air, orbital and ground firepower. you know, waste ammo instead of expensive Astartes?

>>50118316
Alpha Legion and to a lesser extent the Raven Guard are the only sane Astartes in 40k

>>50118404
>What are ultramarines

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>>50118548
no one likes Ultramarines
they tend to win, regardless of force parities, or tactics, or terrain or anything else because fucking azure blue plotarmour

goddammit the mere thought of Ultramarines is enough to push a normal WH40k fan to Chaos worship

>>50118548
>ultramarines
>sane

>>50118591
The Ultramarine hate is just a meme, superfam.

>>50118620
maybe it's just because I'm a loser in real life and hate "perfect" guys
IV and XVII get more love from me, fuck loyalists

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>>50118404
>>50118598
Only the insane have strength enough to prosper.
Only those that prosper truly judge what is sane.

>>50118674
VI is the only legion for me.

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>>50115297
>>50115513