D&D 4e General /4eg/

>>50111235
Shitty OP tbqh fampai.
You didn't even make a link to the last thread.

If you are GMing, remember...
1. To strongly consider giving out at least one free "tax feat," like Expertise and pre-errata Melee Training.
2. To use Monster Manual 3/Monster Vault/Monster Vault: Nentir Vale/Dark Sun Creature Catalog math. Avoid or manually update anything with Monster Manual 1 or 2 math.
3. That skill challenges have always been scene-framing devices for the GM, that players should never be overtly told that they are in a skill challenge, and that the Rules Compendium has the most up-to-date skill DCs and skill challenge rules.

If you would like assistance with character optimization, remember to tell us what the what the rest of the players are playing, what books are allowed, your starting level, the highest level you expect to reach, what free feats you receive, if anything is banned, whether or not themes are allowed, your starting equipment, and how much you dislike item-dependent builds.
If you wish to talk about settings, 4e's settings are Points of Light (the planes and the natural world's past empires are heavily detailed in various sourcebooks and magazines), 4e Forgotten Realms, 4e Eberron, 4e Dark Sun, and whatever setting you would like to bring into 4e.

Pastebin with all the useful links: http://pastebin.com/85Hm56k5
Old Thread: >>50053050

>>50111085
>Barbarian Air Genasi Ritual Caster.

>Hmm. Is there a decent way to make that go large size in combat?

Well, considering that the minotaur is mechanically considered medium, unless you want your polymorphed war-form to be signifigantly larger than a minotaur, there's no real reason to need a mechanican effect of becoming large other than.... being a Barbarian.

>>50111862
Dude this guy is a turbo autist, he wants everything to be *just right*

>>50111902
>I want to copy this 3.x build with 1:1 exact translation of mechanics
>if 4e can't do it, it's shit
>waah waah

Actually, I got a good solution for him.

Mounts. You become effectively Large sized, and there are flying mounts, so flight is also covered. You just need a mount summoning power.

>>50111931
You're seriously sacrificing a good way of doing it for the little details.
Druid who has a mix of beast powers and spellcasting is already the best way of doing it. And flying is strong as heck so naturally you only get it later. But once you get the boots that's problem solved.

>>50111948
Well, it's mechanically the closest I could think of.

Becoming large and gaining flight isn't a little detail for that guy.

You could in fact do it as a druid and change from caster into monster when you mount, just use a totem-lance as your melee weapon.

Do any of you have a favorite set up that you use on multiple characters?
Like psychic lock/githyanki silver weapon/headband of intellect

Mine is multiclassing fighter on ranged controllers and taking polearm momentum/hindering shield.

>>50112032
Elemental Initiate theme, mostly.

>>50112032
Radiant damage in general

Even beyond the good old radiant mafia set up, I just love the concept of damage via searing light

>>50111085
Yeah, easy, take the Eternal Seeker Epic Destiny to grab Giant's Might at level 22

The great thing about epic powers is that literally any class can take any power via the Eternal Seeker ED

>>50112032
Wasn't polearm momentum errata'd to only work on weapon attacks?

>>50112600
Feat still just says "polearm attack" on the builder so I guess not

>>50112032
Hybriding fighter with just about everything.

>>50112032
Hybriding paladin with just about everything
Or any hybrids at all really, even vampire
I think I have a problem

>>50113302
Anything that uses strength hybrids well with fighter

Barbarian/fighter is pretty much flat superior to O-barbarian. Ranger/fighter is better than O-ranger if you want to use off-hand weapons. Even Seeker/Fighter makes a really annoying ranged-defender

>>50113426
Only marking on half your powers is a significant problem if you want to operate as a defender

>>50113456
It's actually pretty easy to find new ways to mark.

>>50113426
>Even Seeker/Fighter makes a really annoying ranged-defender
How would you punish though?

>>50113570
I guess some of those PPs with generic mark punishment damage (Warfiend, Avernian Knight) could work.
What I'd expect a Fighter|Seeker to do is grab Deft Hurler, and start Cleaving enemies in the face up close while using Seeker RBAs on someone else.

>>50113686
I'd argue mixing seeker with paladin or warden would result in a better ranged defender. Wouldn't have much trouble marking and can punish at range without needing specialized pps

>>50113758
>I'd argue mixing seeker with paladin or warden would result in a better ranged defender. Wouldn't have much trouble marking and can punish at range without needing specialized pps

However, they couldn't abuse Cleave with Deft Hurler getting you two attacks.

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I was thinking of making a WIS/DEX watcher spirit shaman. Probably an elf.

What multiclass, feats, etc. options should I look into to make it more efficient and functional?

Also, is there a way to make a bow a primal implement? I thought Moonbow Dedicate allowed it, but apparently it's only for arcane and divine powers.

>>50113819
Multiclass Monk for implement proficiency with all weapons you're proficient with.

>>50113758
Wardens only punish up close, too, don't they? But the main issue, like >>50113775 said, is that they don't have as much synergy in using their abilities.

>>50113819
Shoot spears out of it.

...

You are probably best off getting ki focus from somewhere.

>>50113456
There's a bunch of ways to get marking on more things

Although for Ranger/Fighter hybrids, you aren't really a defender at all, you're a striker who can mark sometimes

>>50113884
Wardens have two punishments, one with melee weapon range and another that's close burst 5. The latter is a reaction and doesn't do damage, but drags the target closer and hopefully into one of the warden's zones

>>50114214
I did once make a pretty good ranger|warden defender. That hunting spear feat is pretty shit but opens up a PP that lets you mark anything set as your quarry. I imagine it could be easily adapted to ranger|fighter

>>50114319
Yes, but tempest technique is basically a striker class feature

It's not that you can't make a ranger/fighter defender, it's that ranger/fighter strikers are better

http://funin.space/compendium/feat/Opportunistic-Archer.html

How do I use this?

You could combine it with

http://funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Sharpshooter.html

But I still can't find anything that'd let you actually use a bow for fighter powers.

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>>50114396
Killing your marks is probably the best way to defend. If you could somehow turn a ranger attack into an MBA for combat challenge it would be glorious

>>50114440
You'd have to ignore them/swap them out for ranged powers from another class

>>50114442
Funny you say...

Opportunistic Archer (>>50114440) lets you use an RBA instead of an MBA on Combat Challenge, and Rangers actually DO have a "can be used as RBA" at-will in the form of http://funin.space/compendium/power/Fading-Strike.html

>>50114442
Goad of Blood, level 25 fighter stance power

Use at-wills or encounter powers instead of basic attacks.

Still, a defender wants to hit reasonably hard for the sake of punishment, but it's more important that you can survive what your foes can throw at you and keep them locked down. A ranger/fighter as a party's only defender is going to have a rough time compared to a pure fighter

>>50114529
If you went with fighter armor proficiency for hybrid talent and go weapon and shield, defense won't be that much of an issue. Alternatively, you can go tempest, get spiked shield proficiency and end up with like one point less AC. HP will be a bitch though.

>>50114687
The real problem is that all you get from being a hybrid ranger is more damage, which fighters don't reallly need

But rangers get a shit ton of flexibility from the fighter side, and tempest technique, and a bunch of powers that are basically striker powers

>>50114758
Disruptive strike is a good defender power rangers get. You can use it in place of combat challenge and slap on a larger penalty to the attack, or you can reserve it for when it attacks you to set up a nasty catch-22 for your mark.

>>50114820
Hmm, true, but the thing is, a fighter multiclassed into ranger with the novice power feat is better at using disruptive strike than a fighter/ranger hybrid is, because the fighter/ranger hybrid doesn't mark with it, whereas the fighter multiclassed into ranger can use it to punish something it hasn't marked, and put a mark on it before it can attack the fighter's ally

>>50114872
Either way it achieves the job of ranger contributing to the fighter's defending capacity.

There's also stuff like invigorating stride and ranger's parry that adds to a defender's survivability.

And there's also all the daze/stun effects rangers dish out with their dailies

And more still are the at-will slowing effects you can attach to hunter's quarry with the hobbling strike feat.

There's tons a ranger can contribute to a fighter's defendering. The biggest problem is just getting a sustained mark, and as the above posts said that can be gotten with a little extra effort from themes and paragon paths

>>50114961
>lose HP by hybriding ranger
>lose basic attack marking by hybriding ranger
>can only choose one of armor proficiency, combat superiority or a fighter talent because hybrid talent feat
Fuck that.

>>50114995
Can't have it all bruh. Just kill 'em dead faster and you won't have to worry about it.

>>50115040
Or just be a striker

Fighters have a lot of powers that hit really hard, and hunter's quarry is never really that important to rangers. You have ranger armor proficiency by default, and prime shot is rarely, if ever, used by melee rangers, and, well, with shock trooper just sitting there, even two-blade style is unnecessary.

Leave the defendering to someone else, maybe pitch in and do a bit of marking if the party wizard is threatened, but for the most part, you're far more useful if you stick to damage-dealing

>>50115108
I really don't see the usefulness of marking without access to a punishment. -2's never stopped monsters from wailing on the wizard in my games, but a couple smacks to the face for trying have. Just giving a ranger marking without combat challenge to go with it strikes me as pointless

>>50115161
But you have combat challenge, combat challenge is the inherent thing fighters bring to a hybrid, so you can mark punish

>>50115108
Or use the vigilante theme

Or any of the other options for marks.

>>50115238
>Or just be a striker
Is /tg/ extra-retarded today?

>>50115238
I thought you were arguing against hybriding ranger|fighter and saying to just go with one or the other

>>50115248
My point was that a ranger/fighter should be a striker build

That was my point from the very beginning, I didn't mean "just play a pure striker class", I meant "Play a ranger/fighter hybrid as a striker"

>>50115279
There are better strikers, hybrid or not. Ones that won't interfere with the actual defender's job because of marks.

Once per encounter battle awareness is good enough, especially since that doesn't need a mark.

>>50115279
I was saying you can be equally both. If you want to be even more strikery you might as well just drop the fighter half and be pure ranger

Isn't that one of the the points of hybrid builds? To be able to equally balance multiple party roles instead of clearly favoring one over the other like single classes?

>>50115328
>points of hybrid builds
The point is to cherry pick options, both during building and in combat.

>>50115264
What? No, where did you get that from?

Ranger/Fighter hybrids are great strikers. Fighters have a bunch of great two-weapon powers, tempest technique is the best thing for a ranger to have, and shock trooper is a brilliant striker paragon path inexplicably tied to a defender class. Which you can take and use your multiclass feat for something else, like grabbing an encounter long damage buff once per day, or getting an off-hand, 1d8, +3 proficiency weapon and ki focus proficiency

The problem is trying to play fighter/ranger hybrids as defenders, which they can sort of do, but if you're doing that, you quickly run into the problem of "why aren't I just playing a pure fighter".

>>50115307
Combat Challenge is a choice

>Every time you attack an enemy with your fighter powers or your fighter paragon path powers, whether the attack hits or misses, you can choose to mark that target.

Just because you can mark, doesn't mean you have to

>>50115356
You said "just be a striker", and if you want to just be a striker, why hybrid fighter at all? Ranger two weapon attacks are still better than any fighters get and shock trooper opens up with just a multiclass feat. There's no reason to really want to keep your MC open for anything else; fighter has access to all the feats a ranger could want that it doesn't already get. You really don't get much at all from ful on hybriding fighter if you want to be a better striker.

>>50115408
If you're not going to mark, then you can't use combat challenge. If you can't use combat challenge, then why are you a fighter?
Options that conflict with each other are not good options. When you hybrid, you want options that you can use when you normally can't do anything else. In this case, battle awareness is good enough.

>>50115328
The point of hybrids is to build crazy shit that can do weird things.

Like hybriding rogue/assassin, then multiclassing into warlock and taking hybrid talent:cunning sneak and the cursed shadow feat, which gives you the shadow walk class feature, thus giving you permastealth by level 4 (level 2 if you're human)

>>50115485
Well I did say "one of", because the other point is crazy shit like that. Pretty sure the developers meant for it to be a way to balance class roles, and crazy shit like hellish rebuking pallylocks and infinitely hidden cunning assassinlocks were a pleasant side effect.

>>50115455
You get a bunch of damn good stances, and god damn tempest technique

Tempest technique is amazing, it's +1 AC and reflex, +1 accuracy, and +2 damage from just one feat

Also you can multiclass into something other than fighter and still access fighter PPs and EDs

>>50115522
It also locks you into offhand weapons and denies you prime punisher in paragon. The defense bonus is just the two-weapon defense feat you can get anyway, and in exchange you get two-weapon fighting as a bonus feat for extra damage. I would think overall you break even.

>>50115649
two-blade rangers get toughness as a bonus feat, not two-weapon fighting, they still need to take two-weapon fighting

Also, even if it does break even, it's still at least as good as getting three feats for the price of one.

>>50115649
>It also locks you into offhand weapons

So? Shortswords are great anyways because they get light blade feat support.

Ranger|Fighter is a good striker with good toughness and an option to be a secondary defender. Blade Dancer is a pretty cool paragon path for it too, though Shock Trooper is good for even more offense.

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>>50113327
Paladin|Warlock is rad as heck.

Virtuous Strike/Starfire Womb/Hero's Poise is a cool mini-combo.
And then you just get to stack catch 22's with all the warlock's "don't hit me" powers with the paladin's "don't hit my friends" powers.

http://funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Tiefling-Warfiend.html

This'd actually be really cool on a Tiefling Paladin, using divine sanction to spread around a lot of marks on everyone and adding another source of damage punishment on top.

>>50118187
Does the level 16 feature count the attack from battle awareness?

>>50118311
Probably not. There's no indication it "counts as" combat challenge.

Could go fighter | paladin.

http://funin.space/compendium/item/Wraithblade.html

Can this let hybrid rogues activate sneak attack on, say, ranger class powers?

>>50118557
Even if it works, the item is kinda crap for hybrids. And I doubt it works.

>>50118557
That's a good question. I would say so since it's so specific about overriding normal use restrictions, but I feel like it was made with just MC rogues in mind and not hybrids

>>50118632
An avenger hybrid could be interesting with it.

Or possibly a crit-fisher sorcerer.

>>50118747
No, there are better, cheaper crit weapons. Bloodiron.

>>50118632
I think it works. But >>50118847 is probably the more important bit.

>>50118557
It kinda sucks regardless.

>>50118001
Warlocks are generally fucking rad.
Gotta love their dailies.

>>50119883
I look back on Vestige Pact Warlock fondly.

Especially after I dual pacted into Sorcerer-King Pact for that feat that adds a die of radiant damage to your Curse dice.

>>50120264
>adds a die of radiant damage
You mean psychic? Mindbite scorn adds psychic damage.

>>50120273
Psychic right, that was it.

>>50120317
Radiant would be quite a bit better tbf.

>>50120264
Finally got the character builder back up and running and remembered why I loved epic level Warlocks so much.

>Curse damage bumped up to d8 with a feat
>Twofold pact into Sorcerer-King pact
>Pick up Mindbite Scorn to add an extra d8 of curse dice and make your Curse deal some psychic damage
>Vile Resonance stance to add 2 extra d8s to curse dice in return for Vulnerable 5(All)
>Rod of Brutality to reroll any dice that come up 1 or 2
>Gloves of Admixture to make non-Mindbite Curse Dice deal Fire, Cold, or Acid damage
>Cursed Spells feat to add my INT modifier to Curse Dice

Any given fight a day I could be throwing out 6d8s(Brutality 2)+7 damage on my curse dice(dealing psychic and Fire/Ice/Acid damage) per hit, extra if I popped the Gloves of Admixture power to throw extra d6s into there, even before how much damage the attack that actually triggered it does.

>Use Command of Execution to have 2 allies make an attack, then spend Fell Might to add that Curse Dice to each otheir attacks.
>Just rolling ALL of the dice.

reading back through the items also reminded of one semi-cheesy Warlock combo I noticed.

>Destiny Inversion: When hit, instead of taking damage, take nothing and give yourself Ongoing damage equal to half the original damage.
>Feyweave Armor of Sudden Recovery: End any Ongoing damage and give yourself Regeneration equal to the Ongoing damage until End of Encounter.
Still have to take one tick of it, but still came in handy during a lengthy fight where I ate a pretty nasty critical hit and ended up with Regen ~45 for the rest of the fight.

Fuck I miss that campaign.

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>>50111235
Looking to be a Slayer. Is there a way I can grab a Barbarian At-Will? Had my eye on Devastating Strike I think it's called. Whatever adds 1d8 to the damage

Also, why isn't Slayer an option for hybrids in the offline builder?

>>50123014
The only way for a slayer to grab an at-will from another class is to be a half-elf

Which is problematic, because half elves have neither strength nor dexterity as bonus stats

>>50123074
Well at least I know it's possible. >tfwI'm a Gnoll

Thanks anyways

>>50123095
Half elf slayers are actually good (post-level 11, you need versatile master to function as a half-elf slayer)

The usual way to do it is to take eldritch strike and go for charge optimization

Does a druid drop their shield when they shift into beast form, because it's something they're holding, or does it meld into them because it's equipment?
I want to incorporate beast form into a polearm momentum/hindering shield caster druid but if they're always going to be dropping the shield when they shift that won't really work.
Would the weretheme once they're level 10 fix the issue?

>>50124137
It melds into them, but they can't use it

The explicit wording on wildshape is
> Your equipment becomes part of your beast form, but you drop anything you are holding, except implements you can use. You continue to gain the benefits of the equipment you wear, except a shield.

So the shield melds into you, but you get no "benefit" from it, which means it can't be used with feats that require you to be using or holding a shield

>>50124547
Thanks. I didn't know if it counted more as equipment or as something I was holding, since later on it specifically mentions stuff about implements, the other thing they'd be holding.

Slowing isn't that important against the ranged enemies I'd be locking down with beast form moves, so I don't mind not having hindering shield on those attacks.

>>50123074
There's also paragon multiclassing, but the investment is rarely worth it

>>50120264
Warlocks are objectively the most fun class.

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>>50125791
>not a leader

Sorry, but that's wrong.

>>50125817
>playing as the healslut
I hope you enjoy all those dicks.

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>>50125791
>>50125817
>Not warlords
pussies

>>50123074
Well, you don't need Strength when you turn that at-will power into a WIS/CHA one.

>>50126241
He was explicitly asking about barbarian at-wills

>>50126334
Yes, and >>50126241 is saying you could turn it into a WIS/CHA based one anyway. Half-elves have a feat that changes the dilettante power to use one of those, regardless what it used originally.

>>50125825
>4e leaders
>Healsluts

More like, the rest of the party are my sticksluts. I am the leader, I make the calls.

https://dnd.rem.uz/4e%20D%26D%20Books/

Probably want to add this to the links pastebin. Has pdf's of all the books.

>>50126566
The barbarian hits his foes with his axe. The warlord hits his foes with his barbarian

>>50126627
That link looks suspicious as fuck.
I'm not sure I want to risk disabling my scriptblock to view it.

What's a good target percentage of SMHP do deal on a Striker's MBA?
Assuming that you're the consistent DPR kind of striker rather than the rapid burst kind.

>>50125825
The only thing drow women and sits have in common is that they both 'take' dicks.

>>50126786
Anywhere from 1/4 to 1/2 per round is decent, I believe, regardless of what attack method (MBA) you use. You can do better, but it goes into broken territory.

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>>50126630
i've tried it, nothing fishy. Screenshot included, the javascript is used to male thw fancy interactive folder thingy.

>http://funin.space/compendium/power/Test-of-Strength.html

I wanna pimp out my MBA so when I use this power I can be certain I'll get the extra standard. Options? Playing a tempest fighter.

>>50128182
Temporary damage bonuses if you want to play it straight. I'd just say sabotage the enemy's attack.

>>50128182
Executioner | Blackguard hybrid.

>>50128233
>being retarded and posting a non-tempest fighter
>the executioner combo isn't even eldritch strike warlock

>>50128253
If you want to pimp out a single melee basic attack, Executioner | blackguard will outdo just about everything else.

>>50128265
I don't think so. Dread Smite doesn't even count as part of the MBA, and Warlock's Curse with boosts like Mindbite Scorn, Hands of Hadar, and Rod of Ulban is far stronger.

>>50128322
Good point, I thought dread smite piggybacked like some other similar boosts.

Yeah, warlock is probably better then.

>>50128182
Not for a tempest fighter

The real king of MBAs in epic is the ranger

Because with the goad of blood stance, a ranger can use twin strike as an MBA

>>50128360
Goad of Blood is a fighter power.

Just sayan. And it lets you use an encounter power too.

>>50128360
>>50128449
oh duh, I could just use goad of blood for test of strength
thanks anons

Actually, I wonder if Test of Strength is still an auto hit if you use a power that has multiple attack rolls

>>50128449
Yes, it's a fighter power

But rangers pretty much always multiclass into fighter, and even if they don't, the eternal seeker ED is still a damn good choice

Also gives them Hurricane of Blades

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>>50128655
>But rangers pretty much always multiclass into fighter

>>50128754
The poster is wrong, but most of the melee ones should. Battle Awareness is great.

>>50128754
Kensei, Shock Trooper, Battle Awareness, Eternal Defender

What the hell else is a ranger going to multiclass into?

>>50129002
Avenger for crits, barbarian for multi-hitters.

>>50130528
Both are fairly uncommon compared to fighter.

How would you guys build a white well hexblade ? Just looking for combos or fluff stuff :)

>>50131219
I dunno, I can see the twin temptations of an extra +2 damage and picking up Hurricane of Blades seducing many a ranger

>>50131316
Probably as a pixy charger.

Fits pretty well with a radiant mafia team. Don't forget to take starfire womb.

>>50131525
Thanks I'll check that out and what do you mean by pixy charger ?

>>50131849
Pixies are mechanically very good at charging at enemies because of the feats "Streak of Light" and "Surprising Charge", and also being tiny and being able to fly. Because of this, they make very good use of class abilities that buff and/or replace melee basic attacks.

Such as hexblades (and most essentials strikers).

As a tiny character, you also get to enter your enemies' square, which makes him leaving your adjacent area a lot harder, hence most likely triggering moonfire blade's effect.

Also, the stat boosts align with your stats perfectly.

>>50131938
...

Aaaand I just noticed the white moon balde is a heavy blade.

Well, the rest still stands anyway.

>>50132066
By which I mean Surprising Charge requires a light blade, so you can't use it with your white well sword.

>>50131316
Someone who is playing white well right now coming through.
Grab DIS (unless your DM is a cunt who rules against it), White Lotus Dueling Expertise, Superior Implement Proficiency (Accurate Staff), and an Accurate staff of Ruin.
These are non-negotiable.
Once you have these, you're mostly set to fare well.

>>50132083
Damn

>>50132101
Just in case: DIS is Dual Implement Spellcaster.

>>50132101
What race are you playing ? and what equipment do you use ?

>>50132122
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=975288
I'm aiming for a crazy Vryloka Hexblade/Blackguard Morninglord build.
My accuracy is stellar so far: +lvl+7 vs ref without accounting for things such as CA or charging.

Admittedly, going Pixie would be objectively superior to Vryloka for this build since Streak of Light is one of the best feats of the game, but I decided to go Vryloka for fluff reasons.

>>50132114
Wait, how do you dual wield implements if you also have to summon your sword? Or do you just ignore that?

>>50132192
Your staff is an implement.
Your sword is a pact blade, warlocks treat pact blades as implements, you are a warlock.
Thus, you have an implement in each hand.
Thus, DIS should work RAW.

>>50132192
>>50132204
Also: since your MBA has both the implement and weapon keywords, you add both the sword's proficiency bonus (+2) and the accurate property's bonus (+1), making it totally equivalent to wielding a +3 proficiency 1d12 weapon and using it to attack against ref out of the box, which is by no means bad.

Thanks, that clears it up. I have missed that interaction.

>>50132154
>Vryloka Hexblade/Blackguard

What are you planning with the blackguard?

I just noticed that Soldier of the faith is a really good multiclass feat for this class. Unless I'm reading this wrong, your mark doesn't drop, so you can keep punishing that foe with radiant damage, and you are also handing out radiant vulnerability too.

>>50132473
>What are you planning with the blackguard?
The only non-stat-restricted divine MC so I can enter morninglord.

The build a story option in the heroes of the feywild is confusing af

>>50132699
There's a better one in Dragon mag.

>>50132473
The punishment is an encounter power IIRC

>>50133350
As written, you can use the marking power once, and the punish is part of the marking power.

Unless there's some FAQ or Errata I don't know about.

What you say would be more in line with the usual power of multiclass feats I guess.

>>50133410
Seems you're right

Kinda want to build a PC based around http://funin.space/compendium/paragonpath/Chameleon.html.
Rad as fuck Changeling PP.

Current plan is using a Bard(CHA main), with an early multiclass into Swordmage so I can use Swordmage implements so I can use weapons as implements.
Then put Farbond on a weapon so my weapon can function as a melee weapon, ranged weapon, AND an implement, so I can use virtually any power my party has.

Then do the normal CHA bump thing since Chameleon lets me use CHA instead of the normal attack/damage stat.

How to best make a forced movement specialist?
I want to be ideally able to push/slide/whatever for over a dozen squares in paragon.

>>50136259
Mark of Storm on Eldritch Strike and Arcane Admixture or another forced movement power with Stormsoul Genasi and Shocking Flame. Then add all the forced movement bonuses you can, starting with Staggering Weapon.

Bludgeon Expertise, Battering Shield, Rushing Cleats. I believe all bonuses may apply to both Mark of Storm's slide and Eldritch Strike's slide separately, but I am not completely sure.

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What's the best way to make a bladesinger styled character that doesn't suck?

I was thinking of just going Warlock|Wizard with Eldritch Strike, then MC Swordmage for the implements so I don't need get locked into using a pact blade.

But that would hurt my AC. So maybe Swordmage|Wizard with the Warding hybrid talent.

I'd also like to deal decent damage. Striker damage isn't necessary, I just want my attacks to feel like they're having an impact. So maybe go genasi and specialize in a damage type?

>>50139415
Swordmage|Warlock with Aegis of Assault using Eldritch Strike was brought up in a previous thread.

>>50111235
I want my 1st level party to fight something interesting other than gobs or such so I'm gonna try and scale down a few Minotaurs and a Medusa for a greek fungeon. My questions to you guys is whether you can successfully do a dungeon with multiple solo monster fights rather than multi-enemy fights.

>>50136684
The enhancers don't double dip on the two slides.

>>50139415
Like someone else said, warlock|swordmage with assault is quite good. And warlocks can get very control-y dailies still.
If you specifically want to be a wizard, though, warlord|wizard will function.

>>50140152
As long as you're creative enough. Solo monsters are the most difficult to make interesting. Make sure the arena you fight them in is interesting and it doesn't just end up every parked in the same place for the rest of the fight after two rounds. Off turn actions for them are important too

>>50136259
>>50136684 this,
but also possibly Bard with battlesong expertise and staggering note.

>>50139415
Well, what do you want out of it? What mix of roles are you looking for (aside from good damage)? What level? Preference for primary stats? Any tricks you want to be able to pull off?

Tried running 4e rules in a wargaming board with no squares or hexes. Did some adaptations to make it work. It was fairly good, actually. Close Burst and Area Burst were a full circle of X+0,5 inches in radius where X was the 1 in Close Burst 1, for example, while Close Blast was a Quarter Circle. I could probably adapt the whole thing to make it work.

Then again people'll just play with squares because it doesn't require aesthetically covering boards of 3 feet by 3 feet with painted sawdust.

>>50141936
How did you deal with persistent zones?

Sounds like a lot of work if you actually want to represent 4e's terrains on the field.

>>50142236
Circle markers underneath certain areas. Range was 1 square being one inch which was also Melee 2, while Melee 1 was just Melee.

Tedious to set up but it was fun to see the world come alive.

>>50142592
>Tedious to set up but it was fun to see the world come alive.
wut
How is it more alive than with a grid?

>>50143083
That anon used a wargaming terrain table thing.

So, better props.

>>50143091
I guess.

Are there any off-the-wall elementalist builds?

They have the best RBA at-wills in the game. So I was thinking something that grants them the highest number of free attacks would be ideal. There's that barb-sorc PP, but that's mostly for hybrids. Anything else?

>>50144108
Elementalists kinda suck tbf fampai.

>>50144117
wut

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>>50142592
I use a box of dungeon tiles. Uch easier to set up.

>>50144108
Err, no, elementalists are a boring class unfortunately

I will never understand why elementalists were not given a resistance-piercing feature when they're even more single-element focused than O-sorcerers

>>50144108
The classic is Half-Elf Elementalist with a Skald power and Master of Stories, which basically just means you're always granting a bonus like +Cha THP to an ally or +2 to Hit to the next attack.

There's also the fact you can key it off other MC Skald stuff.

Another one is MC Ranger but that's too much of a corner case and not as useful.

bump for good luck

>>50145832
Yeah, I was thinking about things like that, thanks.

Besides ranger/rogue, what other strikers mesh really well alongside a warlord?

>>50147246
Any one with a good BA, so most of the essentials classes

>>50147246
Pretty much all of them.

I can't think of a striker that can't get a good BA... except. ironically, the two you listed.

>>50147314
>>50147360
Hrm, okay. I've just been thinking of what to make for a planescape game my DM will be running. At first i've been thinking of making a rogue, but i've been wanting to give Monk another shot as well.

>>50147246
Anything with a good BA, such as the E-classes.
Hexblade is a stellar option, for an example.

What's a better striker? A pure avenger or an avenger|warden who uses warden for stickiness and taking the son of mercy paragon path?

>>50147887
>Can't use oath and your avenger power feats on your BAs and half your powers
Avenger. Pursuit avengers want things to run from them anyway, so I don't see the warden stickiness helping

>>50148099
Yeah, warden is quite counter-productive.

I could see Fighter | Avenger work out pretty well, however. You are less sticky than a pure fighter, but you are still a pain to be around, so there's an incentive to run away.

>>50147887
Avenger|Executioner with Power of Skill.

/4eg/ I have a tangentially related question.
A few threads ago (but more than what's in the archive), someone posted a link to the root folders of the funin.space compendium. I haven't been able to retrace them. Can anybody help me?

>>50148704
funin.space/compendium

>>50148704
oh, and funin.space/dl

>>50147887
Pure Avenger is better, but if you're thinking pulling off a Warden - I'd say Warden|Ranger is easily the best:

- Invigorating Stride solves all your Warden problems with Second Wind allowing you to not be a Dwarf

- Wildblood and Earthstrength can gain +Wis/Con to damage after Second Wind

- Guardian's Pounce is really fucking good especially for an off-defender

- Higher defenses

- Can MC Fighter to gain both Defender and Striker goodies like Cyclone Warrior+Battle Awareness

It's basically a more off-defender version of Hyperpoxia, which is like Mia-levels of game-wrecking.

>>50148879
I would also recommend the huntmaster PP for ranger|wardens. Marks on quarrys and +half level to damage rolls on an action point

Is there any power similar to Test of Strength, but usable on an ally instead of yourself?
Something that makes an enemy to hit your ally in return for buffs to said ally.

>>50149240
It's called Haste. Bard utility.

>>50149260
No, not that.
The *point* is making an enemy hit an ally.
That's the part that I'm trying to find.

>>50149260
>>50149271
The reason is that I have a character who absolutely murders enemies attacking them and thus I'm looking for synergy options to actually make enemies attack said character instead of other party members..

>>50149240
I vaguely recall something bravura warlord related doing that or something similar

>>50149294
Brash assault? That direct attacks towards you, but your opponent can choose not to take it.

>>50149293
How exact does this character work? Blade Burst Trap might have some synergies, depending

>>50149338
>How exact does this character work?
Morninglord with White Lotus Riposte, White Lotus Master Riposte, and a double-tapping MBA, meaning that their immediate reaction to being attacked is outright disgusting damage-wise.

>>50149362
Well Blade Burst Trap can make it a triple tap, unless they're already using up a free action attack

>>50149412
>unless they're already using up a free action attack
Nope.

>>50149362
Black-Hearted Knave theme's Surprising Betrayal utility. The Duplicitous Evasion utility does work, but it's meant to be used on enemies.

Dune Trader, a Dark Sun theme, also has a utility called Command Decision.

Elderboy (drow male only) theme has Shift Blame, which has better range.

There may be more options. I don't feel like looking.

>>50149904
Thanks anyway.

>>50149986
You're probably looking for Wizard or Warlock powers. Something like Decree of Khirad or Charm of Misplaced Wrath.

Is it possible to use the alternate multiclassing rules in the offline builder? If so, how?

>>50150532
No. Never use them. It's like the gestalt character option of 4e.

>>50150544
i dont even want to use them for anything, i just want to see if i can do something neat with it

>>50149188
Nah, I would reccomend Shock Trooper, dude. Triple taps for dayyys.

Besides, the investment of weaponry isn't worth it.

>>50150562
Like I said, no, you can't use it in the offline builder.

>>50150596
Shock trooper is the default answer to everything, along with kensei. Just trying to offer some non-generic choices

Are there any good monster building resources?

>>50150596
That's boring.

Blade Dancer, then.

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I want to play a pixie bard or lazylord. Pic semi-related.

>>50155283
That's a halfling.

>>50155387
HEY, LISTEN!

>>50155283
Pixies make the best lazylords

They just sit on the shoulder of the MBA-striker and hand out commander's strikes

>>50157204
Teeny target can backfire, though.

When I have a ranged at will (Divine Bolts) that gets turned into a basic attack by Power of Skill, is that attack a MBA, a RBA or both?

>>50157680
It's literally a ranged basic attack.

>>50157680
Why would it be considered an MBA?

>>50157965
Power of skill only says its considered a basic attack, not if its MBA or RBA. I just had no idea if that means it counts as both or only one of them.

>>50157967
If you want a ranged MBA, you need a wording similar to that of Fading Strike.
Your example, unfortunately, won't do it.

>>50155283
Ok

>>50157680
No, but if there's a shaman with spirit infusion around, it's one of the best feats in the game for you

Because an RBA that hits two targets is sort of amazing with an RBA-granter around

>>50157204
>sit on the shoulder
>using mount rules
>sharing only one turn of actions
>ally has -2 to hit

>>50159843
Not using mount rules you idiot, just occupying the same space, because pixies are tiny and can do that

>>50159910
You are the idiot. How exactly are you moving together without separating?

>>50159928
You just make your turns coincide by having one of the two of you delaying until you match

>>50159971
Then you are still separating, although if you're happy, whatever. It's awfully restrictive for little advantage.

>>50159928
>>50159978
How's that stick up your butt feel?

>>50159978
Oh

I thought teeny target was a racial feature, not a feat

NEVER MIND

What's the most fun/OP Vampire based build?

>>50161998
Multiclass it on a charisma-based class, and stack as many surges as possible.

>>50161998
Hybrid Vampire is the only way to at least semi-salvage the class.
And then it'll just be a slightly weaker version of whatever if your other hybrid half.

Classes I wish existed:

A dex-based defender
A strength-based implement-using class
A striker-fighter that doesn't suck
A power-point-using psionic striker
Another full-discipline-using class
A martial controller
And an implement-based psionic leader

>>50162078
Berserker uses dexterity. Kind of.
Slayer is fine. You just need to optimize charging, and poach Rain of Steel with a feat. Or somehow get Twin Strike.

>>50162078
>A dex-based defender
You can half-way get there with a monk and some multi-classing.
>A strength-based implement-using class
Dragon sorcerers are kind of close, at least.
>A striker-fighter that doesn't suck
Kensai says suck my fullblade.
>A power-point-using psionic striker
Would be neat, but would rarely get played.
>Another full-discipline-using class
Problem there is that it's a major part of monk's identity, especially since assassins soiled the good name of ki focii.
>A martial controller
Quite a few rogue powers have a strong single target control bend. Not a full controller, but can get half-way there.
>And an implement-based psionic leader
Eh, whatever.

>>50162078
Brutal Barrage Battlemind is basically a striker.

>>50162112
For slayers, human with cleave and deft hurler.

>>50162078
>A dex-based defender

Vigilante justice rogue? Actually, just about everyone can become a defender with Tactical Warpriest.

How fun/useful are monks in 4e? Are they good strikers?

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>>50161998
Vampire|Paladin of Pelor
BATHE IN THE BURNING LIGHT OF RIGHTEOUSNESS! IT IS A GOOD PAIN!

>>50162978
Monks are relatively build-sensitive.
They can be built to be good strikers, but making one that is underperforming is noticeably easier than with most classes, and new players can do that on accident.
If do you have a well-built monk, it's pretty fun, though.

>>50163028
>If you do
Fixed, because I can't write for shit.

>>50163024
ALL PRAISE PELOR, THE BURNING HATE

>>50162078
>A martial controller
Technically hunter, base ranger can get vaguely close with proper feats

>>50163056
Half-elf hunter with a seeker at-will is a switch-hitter martial controller.

Now that I think about it, it can go right into tactical warpriest to add some defendering on top of it. Or Son of mercy if you find some way to mark (Vigilante theme?).

Huh. This could be interesting.

>>50162978
Monks are pretty fun to play. They have a lot of mobility, in some cases even fancy mobility (short flight a la crouching tiger hidden Dragon, say). Plus, they have access to a ton of bender-style attacks. I don't think they measure up to the better strikers in terms of raw damage output, but they have a lot of round-to-round decision points and flexibility. More importantly, they do all this with very little effort build-wise.

>>50163301
Sounds fun.

>>50163301
I mean, grappling spirits is a ridiculously good at-will for a defender. They can't shift, and are slowed to boot. So their choices are moving away, like, 2 squares (provoking) using a ranged attack to hit someone else (provoking) or attacking you (which is sort of your goal as a defender). there's also incentive to move away, since if they stay in place you'll hit them both again.

Add some Earth Spirit Grasp and you are stickier than fighters.

Of course, you need to be a half elf of at least 11th level...

>>50165081
You could slap in on an actual defender hybrid like warden|seeker; that was like the one warden hybrid the charOP forums actually approved

I wanna play a TWF character but not a ranger, how are dual weapon barbs?

>>50165425
One weapon is better for just about every build if you're not a ranger.

>>50165567
Two weapon fighters disagree.

>>50165425
Usually considered better when hybrided.

>>50165594
What does it hybrid best with?

>>50165668
Fighter or ranger.

>>50165425
Workable. Whirlers have the best AC of any barb build, but you generally want to charge and use howling strike as a barb, and that needs a two-handed weapon. The solution is usually to get a double weapon.

Be a valenar elf too for extra shits and giggles.

>>50165594
Maybe I should have said class, not build. Are two-weapon fighters any better than single-weapon?

>>50165668
Anything STR. One notable choice is cleric for the broken Battle Cleric's Lore bonus.

>>50165699
They are different. They get easy double target marking, basically what is a striker class feature, and also amazing stances. Their AC suffers a bit.

>>50165699
Tempest fighters are crazy good secondary strikers and have fewer woes than two-handed weapon fighters

>>50165726
+2 damage isn't nearly enough for a striker feature.

How does it measure up to the cleave deft hurler? I know you can do it as a two-weapon fighter, but it's weaker.

>>50165165
CharOp thought Warden|Seeker was eh, Warden|Rangers and Warden|Battlemind were seen as pretty good.

Hmm, maybe I'll make a hex blade instead of a whirling barbarian then. Those are decent if a bit bland right?

>>50165812
>Warden|Rangers
Oh for real? I thought I was working with a shitty concept there

>>50165846
The blandness hurts so bad though

>>50165794
Why would deft hurler be weaker? Unless you compare it to two handed weapons, but you shouldn't really use two handed weapon with a fighter.

>>50165940
Two-handed weapons. If you're using two weapons, you're already focused on doing damage.

>>50165940
What about for all those polearm builds?

>>50165880
I know, I just kind of like the idea of a melee striker with some elemental/magical ability.

>>50165971
I've actually seen the most exploits for fighter polearm feats on not-fighters. Druids, wardens and other forced movement specialists love it. Warlord has a trick with risky charge that works well with polearms. I'm sure there's more

>>50165880
The worst part is fucking Summon Warlock's Ally.
Useless piece of shit of an ability that isn't worth the ink it's written with, and it's somehow forced onto every fucking hexblade despite being non-thematic (why the fuck is every sword-toting gish suddenly a summoner?!).

>>50165567
All melee rogues use two weapons except for some small rogue sets using versatile duelist, scrappy and a bastard sword

>>50162978
Monks are the second best AoE strikers in heroic and paragon behind sorcerers, and the best AoE strikers in epic. But they're one of the weakest single-target strikers

>>50165425
Pretty damn good, very mobile, better at multi-targeting than the ranger. Generally considered the best way to play a non-hybrid Barbarian.

You still want to multiclass into fighter for the kensei PP though, barbarian PPs are a little bit lackluster

>>50167468
Protector druids get stuck with that shit as well

Fucking summon nature's ally doesn't even fit, protector druids are the druids LESS tied to the animalistic side of nature, and yet they still are forced to be summoners

>>50167468
>>50167588
I mean, I love hexblades.
They are fun and I like the feel of a gish. But Summon Warlock's ally is such a huge letdown that I don't even know. It feels like a spit in the face.

>>50165857
Mostly if they're done in the vein of Hyperoxia, which is just disgusting. Milks the synergy between Crushing Earthstrength and Invigorating Stride for all its worth - it's a goddamn +Con to AC and +Con to Damage approach option that heals and with a Ranger you can just do like Minor Action attack+Twin Strike and it's already going to be very good.

Hyperoxia is kinda crazy but it works really well.

>>50167554
Whirlers are seen as the best ones in terms of non-hybrid but that's because their style is weird when it comes to hybridization; others get pretty good stuff out of hybridization, Whirlers have such a weird path that their best hybrid is something ridiculous like Brawler Fighter with MC Monk for Master of the Fist.

>>50167734
Still, if you want to play a non-hybrid Barbarian, you have effectively two choices. Whirling Barbarian, Or Rageblood barbarian using dexterity as a secondary instead of constitution for charge-optimization, and the second one isn't very good

>>50167825
Second one is seen as pretty good, actually, but like most strikers it hybridizes too well with Fighters, even though Rageblood Barbarian can be decent on its own.

>>50167960
I'd say only barbarians hybridize "too well" with fighters

Every other striker class tends to do better on it's own. Avengers want all their features, monks really want all their features, rangers are both the DPR and nova kings, rogues hate not having 20 dex at level 1, and fighters hate having to use charisma or constitution, so warlocks and sorcerers are out.

>>50161998
An entire party of vampire warlocks that never takes an extended rest and uses a darkspiral rod.

>>50168123

Sorcerer|Fighter is actually excellent because of Come and Get It and Flame Spiral combo.
Tempest technique as your hybrid talent, and wield a shortsword + dagger or dual daggers. Still have pretty good AC.

>>50168443
You know what does that better?

A pure sorcerer with monk multiclass

>>50168459
Eh, I guess in the context of "pure striker" then yeah.
I like having access to Dual Strike for marking and off defending, but that is a different goal.

If you resist all the incoming damage, does it still trigger 'take damage' effects?

>>50168887
Last I checked, if it's just resisting all damage and not immunity you're still vunerable to any on-hit effects from enemy attacks.

As for buff-on-damage effects, it's not as clear so I'd probably need to hear what you've got in mind to give an opinion on it.

>>50168443
Dragonborn, for stat bumps and Draconic Arrogance, tertiary Dex for DIS.

>>50168963
An example is a Desert Wind monk self-damaging with Flurry of Blows for effects. The boon Blessing of Blazing Fangs, the feat Fiery Blood feat, and such. If you resist the whole Flurry of Blows fire damage, do the effects still trigger?

>>50169050
In that case? No, because those effects require you to "take damage", which didn't happen because you resisted it all

>>50169149
Sorry, I should have asked for a source, too. Is there some relevant written rule, customer service reply, anything?

>>50167705
Remember: Mearls stated in an interview "Wizards are my favorite class, and warlocks can go to hell". Compare wizard vs warlock options in essentials.

>>50170118
Warlock got some really nice things in essentials

It's just that the warlock offshoot classes are both garbage at using them

>>50170597
I wish we got the blade initiation feat.

A few more months of feats that let non-essentials classes get essentials goodies (and vice-versa) and we'd have had some pretty nice things going on.

>>50170118
Well, fuck that guy.

>>50170841
>blade initiation feat.
What's that?

>>50171289
There was going to be a feat for O-warlocks that gave them access to a hexblade weapon

It was removed because it's presence completely invalidated the entire existence of the hexblade class

>>50171295
damn son having that would be great

>>50171295
Tbh if Hexblades simply weren't so massively fucked over with choices of powers, I'd love the fuck out of them anyway.

>>50171306
Basically, if every essentials class got some sort of martial cross training, it'd be cool.

>>50171465
Or just if they weren't locked into shitty choices all the time.

>>50172421
But that's like, a lot of work! And sounds too complex to be essential.

- Mike Mearls
:^)

>>50172430
Fuck that guy, seriously.

another bump on the road

>>50171303
The feat was broken as sin and I understand why they removed it, but it is disappointing they didn't think up anything to replace it with