Why is there much less love for Gnolls compared to other

>>50102398
When in doubt blame furries.

Because Pseudopenis

>>50102398
We had a very good thread about gnolls and their public-image problems yesterday. Check the archive.

>>50102502
Yeah I found it thanks for the heads up.

>>50102502
>public-image problems
>implying their evil-as-shit psychological problems can be remediated by a good marketing campaign

I still remember all the nasty shit the gnolls did in the Pool of Radiance novel, and that was decades ago.

>>50102398
Because nobody really wants to embrace their potential.

Seriously, if you can, track down Dragon #367; their Playing Gnolls article spent a lot of time talking about how to remove Yeenoghu from their lives without losing those traits that make Gnolls unique to them. It really sold them as a primeval species who live for the hunt and, even when they're not evil, are not cuddly bunnies who can be pushed around.

Seriously, it's an awesome article that really sells gnolls as a viable beast-man race that can easily take the role of Orc, Hobgoblin or Minotaur as the "aggressive but fiercely loyal monstrous PC".

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You asked this yesterday. 4e liked gnolls; they had among the most support out of all monster pc races (granted, that's not saying much). They even got to be the ones to bring down the greatest empire in the history of the Points of Light setting.
>>50102688
Mah nigga. Reposting this from last thread

>>50103034
That's funny I don't remember gnolls taking down Arkhosia

>>50103101
Just accept Nerath did the empire shtick better. It's not shameful, the humans just had the benefit of hindsight.

Because they're all assholes. Seriously, their image and identity is deeply tied to being one of the more primitive, ruthless, needlessly aggressive races. Any attempts to remediate that just results in people calling them dog- or wolf- folk and not as "true" gnolls.
This need to have Gnolls be physiologically preordained to be assholes makes them infinitely less endearing than, say, kobolds, who are usually small, timid, and don't interpret every social action as an opportunity to dominate the other.

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>>50103214
Speak for yourself. Kobolds a shit, gnolls master race

>>50103290

Glory to the wild gods, brotha'. Stump dragons get out.

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>>50103290
>>50103307
You know what Kobolds have done that you haven't?
BECOME WIZARDS!
All you guys produce are voodoo shamans who have to dance around a fire, eat babies, and suck some no-name spirits' dicks to use magic.

How's it feel to know your race is dumber than the Gieco Gecko's redneck, survivalist, cousins?

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>>50103406
>Implying primal spirits and abyssal powers don't trump some magician's cheap parlor tricks
Go home rat-lizards

>>50103406
Look up at that gnoll chef you replied to, I'd say there's a kobold well on the way to being shit just like he said.

Shenji the Hyena was my first waifu.

>>50103214
When you put it that way, Renardy in 2e's unfinished red steel setting was civilized gnolls

cause we hate fur fags

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>>50102484
>Because Pseudopenis

Not criticizing your post, but:

I love how everyone is fine with all the rape, murder, cannibalism, demon rape, & bestiality that Gnolls already do, but-

You mention that the females have a penis and essentially give birth and have sex through urethral insertion and now everyone is throwing a small fit, yelling, "Fantasy has gone too far!! Magical Realm!!"

Silly.
Babies. Babies pooping in their biased diapers.

>>50103406
I have played a Gnoll Illusionist and he was the best character I ever played.

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>>50102398
Because Gnolls are generally evil douchebags who also get dominated by their sadistic bitches.

A whole race that no one would miss if they were all killed.

>>50104439
>Because Gnolls are generally evil douchebags who also get dominated by their sadistic bitches.
>A whole race that no one would miss if they were all killed.

Wait I thought that was the Drow. Are they Both the same thing?

because werewolves are a thing

>>50102398
They're basically what "that guys" want in monster races, aggressive, intimidating and tribal.

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>>50104596
They are very similar. The thing that distinguishes them is that Drow mostly attract BDSM enthusiast, as well as Femdom fetishists because the fetish is a lot more emphasized, while Gnolls attract furries and randumb CE dickheads.

>>50104439
I would miss them. Gnolls are cute.

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>>50104714
>any GM who makes Gnolls good, cute or otherwise non-evil
I am very happy that I do not game with you.

>>50104741
Who said they had to be good or even non-evil? Hyenas are cute, too, even when they're eating a carcass.

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>>50104839

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>>50104936
>>50104839
>>50104741
>>50104714

I dunno, Hyenas/Gnolls can be cute.

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>>50104974
>>50104839
>>50104714
>>50104596
Now I really want to make a character who parades as a small innocent prey, wanders into a pack of hyenas/gnolls and then puts a few dozen bullets in their stinking hides.

>>50102398

Because gnollo contendere

>>50105129
...I'm sorry I don't get it. Could you please explain it to me.

>>50107338

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nolo_contendere

>>50102398
1. Stigmatized by furfaggotry
2. Have never been featured prominently in any major literary work
3. Compete with orcs in both fluff and crunch
4. Overall weak concept (not actually any weaker than orcs, but in light of above points are less likely to be targeted for rehabilitation)

I made a thread about how to fix this a few days ago that got a lot of really good responses. >>50073813

>>50102398
1) Gnolls are pretty unique to D&D
2) I don't think there's ever been a single D&D setting that has ever portrayed them in a remotely positive light

Kobolds, goblinoids, and orcs all have been shown to have exceptional (not necessarily "good", just mold-breaking) members of their race (Meepo, Nojheim, Obould). Gnolls haven't. They've universally been shown to be evil and rapacious.

I think Eberron is an exception, but Eberron's entire schtick is that it's full of exceptions, so that's hardly a useful touchstone.

>>50102638
>>50103214
>>50109885

I don't think its just that they're evil. Even in published material, they are considered less inherently evil than, say, illithids.
Granted, some depictions go a bit farther into the realms of stupid-evil puppy-kicking, but there's really no basis for this. As of 4e they don't even take a penalty to intelligence anymore.
Someone just needs to write a popular book or something that shows gnolls being sneaky badasses instead of dumber, more expendable offbrand orcs.

>>50110177
Are mindflayers really evil though? Or are they just attempting to gather the information that is not yet formatted properly in the elder brain and thus innacessable to society. If you go willingly the process doesn't really hurt even. The self is an illusion and the elder brain will set you free.

>>50102398
Gnolls are disgusting demon tainted scavengers hellbent on the destruction of civilization and innocence
Only demon lovers would make court with a creature made up of two different scoundrels!
Pelor willing,good and justice will wipe them from earth

>>50109885
>Nojheim
That story changed my view on fantasy, and affected me dearly when I was a 13 year old reading it (I believe it was in Realms of Valor). I was accustomed to evil races and some exceptional individuals coming out from them. But that was the first story that I really see how "good" races had not only sick and wicked individuals but the society was also okay with it. The human village used the goblin as a slave and hanged him later on, I remember drizzt leaving the place in disgust, rather than attacking the village leader who did that.

And its never touched again, there is no justice, when 3rd edition came out I search the village leader, hoping to find what happened to him, nothing, nothing at all. And I believe it was very good for Salvatore to leave it at that, even if he did it unintentionally.

Before asoiaf or witcher, who explored these topics far better than FR, for me there was Nojheim. FR was always my favorite setting I wish there were more examples of this realistic darkness tone to it. Similar to witcher

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>>50110177
Volo's Guide to Monsters just came out with new fluff for gnolls, and they are fucking evil.

They exist only to murder, enslave and feast on the flesh of sapient creatures. They don't even have a language that can convey complex concepts.

I'm not even sure if they reproduce normally in 5e or if all of them are just hyenas that fed on the kills of Fangs of Yeenoghu.

>>50110722
Uh huh. This is basically 4e's gnoll lore, only doubling down on the "demonic corruption!" angle and stripping out all the bits about how "hyenas are not evil at heart, and so gnolls can turn their backs on the Abyss and embrace their purer primal origins instead".

>>50110925
One of the 5e modules also had a gnoll suffer so much demonic corruption that it went "insane" and developed empathy and happiness, so there's some precedent for nonevil gnolls.

>>50110945
>suffer so much demonic corruption that it went "insane" and developed empathy and happiness

That's stupid and memey as fuck.

>>50111106
That adventure has all sorts of stupid bullshit that the DM can throw at the party, though most of it is optional things to use while the party's exploring.

like:
>Giant web-filled chasm, miles wide and full of spiders in the underdark
>A pair of goblins figured out that if they put some oil on their feet, they could slide at incredible speeds across the web, and offer their services as guides across the chasm
>That is to say, they're well versed in surfing the web

Or the sentient sunblade that's afraid of the dark, or the intelligent gelatinous cube.

>>50111106
I like it. Wouldn't make sense for an orc or what have you, but for an innately evil creature like a gnoll corruption and insanity manifesting in empathy sounds good.

>>50111164
No it doesn't.
Insanity doesn't work that way.

>>50110925
Gnolls should not exist naturally. Hyenas do, but once they're gnolls they're fucked. Plus Hyenas have connotations of cruelty to them as is. It's an animal you expect to be evil. Laughing and taunting as it nips at you to bleed you out so the pack can eat you alive. The Hyena's of the Lion King were real fucking chaotic evil.

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>>50110647
AMEN!

>>50111191
Insanity caused by demonic energies works like that on a demonic creature.

>>50111435
Not any more evil than wolves or lions or any other pack predator. And the hyenas of the lion king are shitty stereotypes based on misunderstanding the relationship between lions and hyenas.

>>50110722
>>50110945
5es gnoll lore is absolute dog shit. In fact 5es lore in general is absolute dog shit. It shits all over 30 years of established lore by making them unnatural demon things instead of the, idiotically stereotyped, Hyena folk who happen to worship a demon lord.

>>50111643
>Not any more evil than wolves or lions or any other pack predator.

Wolves are pretty fucking evil too. Lions are proud and incredibly aloof.

>And the hyenas of the lion king are shitty stereotypes based on misunderstanding the relationship between lions and hyenas.

I don't give a shit they were full of character and that's what matters. This isn't National Geographic. This is fucking fantasy.

Demon thing gnolls mutated from hyenas that eat the flesh of profaned corpses is so much cooler than Hyena-folk that worship a demon. Beastmen are an unnatural blight. Did you learn nothing from Warhammer or Glorantha?

>>50111680
>Did you learn nothing from Warhammer or Glorantha?
You mean two shitty settings with a fuckton of terrible elements to them. Why should I learn anything from a setting used for a terrible wargame and one that features Donald Duck the race?

Because Gnolls are cunts and deserve murder. Anything less is too good for them.

>>50111696
>You mean two shitty settings with a fuckton of terrible elements to them. Why should I learn anything from a setting used for a terrible wargame and one that features Donald Duck the race?

You have the shittest of taste, go play with your furry hyena-folk bullshit.

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>>50111699

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To avoid gnoll stigma, you can just use wolf people instead.

>>50111949
That is infinitely worse

>>50111949
Or just use humans.

Oh, wait, >>50112013

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>>50112013
Nigga doesnt even know about glorious Renardy.

>>50111949
Hell no

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>>50111949
>replace demonic horde with generic furries
What the fuck are you trying to do?

People are jealous of the big barbed gnoll cock

>>50112064
Its a small thin ring at the base of the glans and is mostly vestigial. Not the cats where its covered in spines.

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>>50111949

>>50112052
>le all human setting messiah; everyone look at how original I am! Ebin xd

>>50112062
Replace demonic gnolls with generic wolf furries by the looks of it.

>>50112109
>he did not get the hint from the other linked post

>>50112062
I think a joke

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>>50112062
My gnolls look like that too. But they're one of many races integrating into a green apocalypse world together. They draw on a lot of hyena myths and legends of various cultures for fun. They're had a lot of neat development thanks to one of my players, and one gnoll in the story has even become the metaphorically-literal Mother of God.

>>50112158
Tell me more about the green apocalypse

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>>50112158
Can anyone explain what the fuck this fag just wrote?

>>50102484
2 posts in.
I expected nothing less from /tg/.

>>50112059
French noblemen wolves aren't something you can remplace gnolls with, most of the time.
Even when they appear as native american wolves, lupins are quite distinct.

>>50112223
>My gnolls look like that too.
That anon's gnolls look like that too

>But they're one of many races integrating into a green apocalypse world together.

The world has gone through a large catastrophe and the people living it are adapting to it

>They draw on a lot of hyena myths and legends of various cultures for fun.
The gnoll take inspiration from from several myths and legends about hyenas

>They're had a lot of neat development thanks to one of my players,
One of his players has helped him a lot

>and one gnoll in the story has even become the metaphorically-literal Mother of God.
One of the gnolls has become an important figure in the story

I'm glad I could help, anon!

Because the only people that don't want to play them as the evil fucks they are, are furries.

>>50110722
Well 5e also goes nuts on the orcish rape monster angle and fills the hearts of half orcs with gruumsh-given psychotic compulsions. 5e is not monster pc friendly

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>>50112255
Thanks anon: now that's much clearer than OP

Seriously? Gnolls are one of the most blatantly evil and fucked up of monsters. Drowsy would be jealous of the torture techniques Gnolls use on their slaves. Gnolls should be purged.

>>50112325
That just makes them great villains. I'd take them over drow, and drow get a fuckton of love

>>50112353
They're great monsters and villains. But the topic at hand is very likely for player character Gnolls, hence why op said monster races.

>>50102638
>implying their evil-as-shit psychological problems can be remediated by a good marketing campaign
Works for the GOP.

>>50103894
>I love how everyone is fine with all the rape, murder, cannibalism, demon rape, & bestiality that Gnolls already do, but-
I'm actually not fine with any of this outside the murder, and even that's only because it's fantasy violence.

>>50105018
That's a pretty Gnollish method of killing a group. Pretend to be something weak, lure the prey into a trap, ambush, murder, garnish and eat.

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>>50111122
>A pair of goblins figured out that if they put some oil on their feet, they could slide at incredible speeds across the web, and offer their services as guides across the chasm
>That is to say, they're well versed in surfing the web

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>>50112839
>citation needed

>>50112900
The 4e PDF from earlier in the thread. Describes a Gnoll leading some poor sap into an ambush using Ghost Sound of his dead girlfriend.

>>50110622
Yes, Mind Flayers are evil.

1) They don't actually need to do cereomorphosis. An illithid tadpole left to its own devices will grow up into a neothelid, which is around as smart as an illithid and just as psionically powerful. It simply has an alien mindset (even by illithid standards), but then as it's a giant worm thing, this makes sense.

2) They don't actually need to eat brains, either, at least not according to Lords of Madness. An illithid who doesn't consume brains on a regular basis starts to go "mad" according to the same book, but arguably that "madness" is simply the illithid reverting to the more natural neothelid mindset.

3) Their entire civilization is centered on omniversal conquest and enslavement of every single other race.

4) Their whole society is based on a lie. Illithids believe that, if their brains are consumed by an Elder Brain, they'll live on in the Elder Brain as part of a gestalt consciousness. This is just a lie perpetuated by the Elder Brains, however. An illithid brain consumed by an Elder Brain has all of its knowledge go to the Elder Brain, but the personality is gone forever.

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>>50112907
>Now I really want to make a character who parades as a small innocent prey, wanders into a pack of hyenas/gnolls and then puts a few dozen bullets in their stinking hides.
>That's a pretty Gnollish method of killing a group. Pretend to be something weak, lure the prey into a trap, ambush, murder, garnish and eat.

>what are ambushes
>what are lures/baiting tactics
>lures/baits=ambush

>inb4 I was only pretending to be retarded!

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>>50112271
>Well 5e also goes nuts on the orcish rape monster angle

Actually, it doesn't; it backtracks on that considerably. Half-orcs are now just as often the result of orcs encountering a human they think is particularly orky and stopping fighting said human and his/her people for a little bit for a chance to get it on with the human.

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>>50112964
It also has this, and it's pretty clearly "rape monsters that hear murder voices from slaughter god"
I don't know where you're quoting from, but the PHB and MM do not share such forgiving opinions on orcs.

>>50112059
>red steel

B A S E D
A
S
E
D

>>50112228
Before 3e, the Lupins were actually heavily interbred with gnolls.

>>50113214
Actually, wasn't the idea suggested in multiple editions - lupins did appear in 3e, via Dragon #325 - that lupins may have originated from humans crossbreeding with gnolls?

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>>50111705
>>50111680
>I want Gnolls and all other beast men to be basically demons with no good because Warhammer did it and because it makes them easier to genocide.
>This will totally solve the problem of how Gnolls are are always portrayed as Always evil with no redeeming or endearing features, and just being discount orcs that you are allowed to genocide.

You are the reason this thread exists. Please hop off GeeDubs dick, find a rope, and hang yourself.

>>50113324
Yeah, there were multiple origin stories, not helped by the fact that even Mystara had two different kinds of lupins (the Renardois and a bunch of related native-american-like tribes on another continent)

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So what I gather from this thread is that Gnolls are more often than not shit
which is sad because hyenas are fucking rad

>>50113102
Volo's Guide to Monsters, the latest release.

None of what you posted explicitly mentions rape (though it certainly doubles down on the violence part), and Volo's Guide would seem to segue okay with the Monster Manual's entry: Orcs are murder monsters, but when they meet someone who's just as murdery as them, they really want to get it on with that person as part of a kind of eugenics program to create a better murderer. And they have no interest, meanwhile, in raping weak men or women, since the resultant child would only dilute the strength of orc blood rather than adding to it.

So in 5e, orcs are extremely violent, but would appear to disdain rape, or at least the rape of someone who is incapable of fighting back.

Your 20 STR barbarian Red Sonja knockoff who could kill an orc with a bitch slap, on the other hand, is their version of Meghan Fox.

>>50110622
Are gnolls really evil though? Or are they just attempting to gather the proteins and carbohydrates that are not yet properly arranged into gnolls, and thus useless to society. If you go willingly, the process is quick and mostly painless. The self is an illusion and gnolls will happily set you free.

>>50113910
It doesn't say rape because that's a bad word in our new politically-correct world and would get everyone's panties in a twist if outright stated. "Luthic...demands that orcs procreate often and indiscriminately" however is a fairly strong implication of rape, and the entry also says "the orc drive to reproduce runs stronger than any other humanoid race and they readily crossbreed with other races". That coupled with their extremely violent, marauding, patriarchal culture says rape in every way it's possible without directly saying the word rape.

Though all this also contradicts Volo's perspective on more selective mating. By the MM's telling they wouldn't care if the mate is orky enough; simply fucking them will increase the number of orcs in existence because orc genes are powerful and overriding (by the MM entry, mating with any similarly shaped humanoid has a chance of creating full-blooded orcs instead of just half-orcs).

Seems to me they're just backpedaling and pretending the entry on Luthic doesn't exist because it isn't kosher enough. 5e prior to Volo was orc rape monster edition.

>>50111643
5e's lore comes from the oldest of canon.

There are now gnolls that get cannibalized by other gnolls and the stand up and go murder and eat with the pack still. That's some rad bad guy shit there, way better than the orc lore.

There are plenty of intelligent evil stuff running around having gnolls be the only true murdering horde in the edition is amazing.

>>50114099
>Gnoll prisoners are tortured physically and psychologically; every clan has slavers (known as tantekurash, or "spirit breakers") who specialize in this work.
>Those who cannot be broken are soon devoured by their carnivorous captors, typically in front of other prisoners as a further act of torment. Those who surrender become slaves and are forced to maintain the camps of the nomadic gnolls between raids. Those who excel at this work may be kept alive; otherwise, they are eventually consumed by their vicious masters.

Seems resisting is actually the quickest way out. Submit and you remain trapped by The Self for even longer.

If 5e is so literally hellbent on making gnolls into demons lite, could we at least get some cool mechanics to make up for the loss of all remaining vestiges of character and personality?

I would be all for rolling up a chaos gnoll of Tzeentch. He could ride a vrock named Sarthorael and together they could travel the world trolling the civilized races, cackling manically about how everything is just as planned.

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>>50113842

>>50110622
>dey ilithids good boys! dey dindu nuffin'!
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

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>>50113842
>posting lameass futahyenas instead of raddest hyenas

>>50112640
We have deposited 0.25c into your Cuck Bucks account.

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>>50115953

>implying noone dislikes the GOP without getting paid for it

>>50111949
Wolves are an autistic furfag magnet for whatever reason. Usually liked by the type of people who say humans should go extinct.

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>>50115748
No idea why pervy spotted hyenas get all the attention. They aren't even dedicated scavengers.

In my campaign, the type of gnoll depends on which kind of hyena it spawned from. Spotted and brown hyenas results in the standard big brutish gnolls, striped hyenas result in smaller, smarter flind gnolls. pic related.

>>50116168
spotted hyenas are the smartest and most social species

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>>50112934

>1)
>2)
You want to condemm such a majestic creature to a life as a glorified worn? That's just evil, a brain is but an small sacrifice that a mere human can make to create a true Illithid.

>3)
Wow just... I can't even... How can you be so wrong? Illithids only desire is to better understand the world and accumulate an wealthy of knowledge to the Elder brain, if some lesser creatures decide to serve us because they are enthralled by the prospect of joining such a just cause is of no concern to anyone.

>4)
I think you are misinterpreting their convictions, why would a Illith expect to maintain his individual consciousness ? Fulfilling his mission to collect and share his knowledge with the Elder brain should be more than enough reward.

>>50116279
Spotted hyenas are literally in the top three smartest animals on earth, yet for some reason gnolls are always being represented as minotaur tier retards.

>>50111949

Wolf people have their place, but carry different implications along with their own stigma.

>>50116083
We have deposited 0.25c into your Cuck Bucks account.

>>50116147
>for some reason
It's not hard to figure out. Wolves carry the idea of being majestic and strong, with a whole array of mystical and mythical qualities, and a variety of interpretations. Basically, a noble beast.

Furfags treat their fursonas like extensions of themselves, so naturally they will pick the animal that represents their "noble alpha-male soul", even if the sloth or the kakopo would be a more fitting choice.

>>50116168

>flind
>not a half-human abomination

Why not just rewrite every iconic monster to be something it isn't.

>>50111949

Global rule #3.

>>50116703

>nobody wants to fuck turtle

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>>50116756
>Gnolls
>iconic
Have you been reading this thread m8? If you had you know that what you think Gnolls have to be is exactly why they're not iconic.

Their lack of options in portrayal means that get less much time in any limelight as characters. Being always savage, evil, and bloodthirsty doesn't make for good empathetic characters that people want to learn about. It just makes them a force to be opposed, a bunch cardboard cut-outs, punching bags, and training dummies made to represent some concept such as evil or savagery or chaos. And when the creature is made to be a two-dimensional stand in for a "more important" concept, that race of creature loses a lot of it's agency and initiative, as many of their reasons for doing anything can be simplified down to "because they're assholes".

And that isn't necessarily bad, if you want a race that people can just allow people to "shoot first, ask questions never", but for anything else it's kinda shit. When their whole society and culture can be summed up the phrase "they're unrepentant assholes" with little quirks and weird habits that don't change that main idea, then the only question left that has an answer we don't already know is "How big of a bunch of assholes are they?", Which will just devolve into gore and depravity for the purpose of shock-value.

Basically, Gnolls being limited to these edgy-80's-comic-book level villians, means they can only fulfil a very specific narrative purpose. A purpose that can usually be fulfilled by Orcoid races and hellspawn. A role that Gnolls are all my ever called upon to fulfil the if others are doing something else or are other wise indisposed.

Basically, Gnolls have been set up as the villian's understudy.

>>50117259
>nobody has ever written compelling zombie fiction

>>50102398
So, aside from the fluff issues, have you ever considered how, mechanically, you might handle gnolls as PC options?

In my own homebrew, I ended up going the subrace route, with Butcher's Brood, Hyena Soul and my unique "Bouda" (+1 Cha "mystical" gnoll strain) variants.

>>50117422
That statement had so little context that I'm not sure what you mean by that, so i'm going to assume that it was counter-argument to my post.

In which case, the part of zombie fiction that makes it compelling is not the zombies themselves, but the way the characters react and deal with these zombies and the changes they bring. Meaning that, again, the zombies are just a narrative force meant to move along the plot. Zombie apocalypse type books never go into details about,m "zombie culture" or motives because it just boils down to "they're assholes and want to eat you".

>>50117451
I would call them "awakened" and basically be some conflict of events that ended in the odd gnoll gaining some spark of humanity by magic or whatever.

This opens them up a bit as they gain a bonus to intelligence and strength (for 5e like +2 strength +1 intelligence), rampage, bite attack, and reckless like the berserker NPC block. Probably a skill bonus too. So they are a bit like smart barbarians.

>>50117526
I don't see how you don't see how relevant that is to gnolls.

>>50117548
Oooohhh...are you saying that archetypical Gnolls are basically zombies? Cause, yeah I would agree with that.

Or is that not what you were trying to say?

>>50117259
>>50117422
>>50114313
This is the other side of the coin. There have been plenty of hardcore evil creatures that are nevertheless iconic. However, vampires, werewolves, mindflayers and demons all have something gnolls don't: interesting crunch. What they lack in moral complexity, they make up for by providing interesting combat encounters. 99% of zombies in popular culture gain their appeal from special mechanics or powers.

Gnolls are marginally tougher than orcs, but in general their crunch is utterly bland. The people who want to make gnolls more interesting either push the demonic corruption and try to go full chaos beastman warlock, or else they try to make them civilized and end up with warcraft III dindu orcs.

>>50117259
>Their lack of options in portrayal means that get less much time in any limelight as characters.
see >>50103034
Guess nobody actually did read the thread

>>50112158
That is a terrific helm design. It's a bit marred by not having ear protection though.

>>50117259
They are in the same place Tolkien orcs were. Made by big bad guy to be terrible things to plague the land with. It would only take someone actually interested in them over orcs to flesh them out. It's just orcs came first, so no one actually cares to put in that effort.

>>50117774
This still boils down to a choice between bloodthirsty demon psychos, or noble savage hyena-folk. Option 2 has been consistently booed throughout this thread every time anyone mentions it, and it seems 5e has decided to act like it never even existed.
This leaves us with an entire race of furry zombies with the popular appeal of the gelatinous cube.

>>50117909
/tg/ boos dindu nuthin noble savage orcs, yet they remain popular outside of this cesspool. I say the problem is just redundancy; we already have orcs to fill the same role, so no one cares

>>50117627
That's what I'm saying. Much like wendigos and many other creatures, but gnolls have he advantage of being fast rage-virus zombies that have a variety of types and behaviors that can challenge characters through the core class levels.

On top of that they are fueled by cultists so there is built in intelligent alliances to be the true bad guy, and carry the torch to 20. They don't have to be "evil" as in orcs pillaging and raping, they are forces of nature that society adjusts to as the real threat is taken down.

That's a very valuable role, and their ability to be varied easily makes then especially valuable for a long form story like a D&D campaign.

>>50117909
Why does everyone here think we have no options besides stupid-evil psycopaths and furry pseudophallus care-bears? There have are hundreds of examples of badass raider civilizations in both real-life history and in fantasy literature that managed to eke out a distinctive character without being a race of pussy dindus.

Even looking past the obvious case of ancient scandinavians, read about the Scythians or the Bedouin and then come tell me how they were mindless, cultureless zombies.

>>50116362
Citation would be appreciated

>>50103034

This is awesome, thanks for posting it, anon.

>>50118258
Any violent, relatively primitive race that you're not supposed to kill on sight registers as noble savage to /tg/. If you make them too analogous to an irl culture in an attempt to give flavor then they become Not!cultures that are totally cool and original until we inevitably get bored with it then it's shit.

Just stop trying.

Does anyone have recommendations for good 28 mm gnoll minis? I want to get some, paint them and use them as counts-as for... something. Not sure on the system yet tbqh. KoW or something like that maybe?

I found the Frostgrave 20 piece set, which looks like a good start, and also a neat mini from Reaper I'd use as the warlord or equivalent. Anything else I should look at?

tl;dr want gnoll raiding party, need 50+ minis, what do

>>50118522
Not saying you shouldn't make them evil genocidables. Look at how the british treated the danes around 600 AD. Not saying you should borrow anything from real culture either, just that there are other positions available. You can make a race evil, even chaotic evil, without being absolutely retarded and incurably primitive. You could play them as clever, even scheming, without making them less evil or demonic. It makes perfect sense for a race that only cares about fighting to at least understand tactics and metallurgy, even if they end up making slaves do all the work.

>>50103034
>“SAIRA?” Faris said. A cloud had passed over the moon, and the woods around him were a maze of shadows. Saira’s voice had drawn him away from the campfire, but each time she called, it seemed to come from a new direction; he just couldn’t pin it down. “Saira, what’s wrong?”
>“I need you . . .” Her voice was weak, rough—it was clear she was in pain. “Help me . . . please, help me . . .” She was straight ahead of him. Faris pressed forward, thrashing his way through briars and vines. Then his foot caught on something and he stumbled, falling across a soft and wet mass—a human body with skin cold to the touch and blood matting her hair. It was Saira’s corpse.
>“I need you.” It was her voice, rough and pained, but it wasn’t Saira who spoke. The speaker towered over Faris, a bloody axe clutched in one hand. Sharp teeth gleamed as the gnoll burst into laughter—a mocking, fluting cry that was quickly echoed on all sides as others stepped out of the woods. The moon broke through the clouds just in time to catch the blade of the gnoll’s axe as it rose and fell, silencing Faris’s cries.
Damn, Gnolls are some real assholes

>>50117259

>gnolls are the villain's understudy

This is perfectly fine. They fulfill a niche between orcs and ogres. Tougher than orcs, but not as potentially dangerous as ogres (except in great numbers).

Gnolls do not need to "saved" from being throwaway villains of the week. If we give elaborate culture and nuance to every "savage" humanoid, you'll just end up playing a game where the heroes are bland Not!Cultures fighting equally bland Not!Cultures who also dindu nuffin.

If you want to make sympathetic animal men, fine. I can't stop you. I just think you're trying to fix something that isn't actually broken.

>less limelight as characters

They don't need to be characters, and the implication that they need this extra dimension suggests you also want them to be playable. Monsters as PCs has always been a terrible idea, and gnolls are just another excuse for chaotic neutral retards to get off on being a special flavor of adventurer with a side of animal behaviors so they don't actually have to think of a character beyond "acts kind of like a man, kind of like a hyena, and worships a demon!".

I don't care if you want to give them little details to customize your own setting or interpretation. I once added the detail that gnolls didn't actually care about money, they just stole it because they knew humanoids valued it. The gnolls would string cords through coins and use them as decoration in their hair and on their clothing and weapons.

There's a huge difference between adding a couple of personal touches, and making a playable dindu nuffin furry bait race that has to compete with dragonborn and tieflings for most special snowflake status.

If you're trying to make a fantasy world without humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes and are filling their places with stuff that's weird and different, I'll grant you a pass on that.

>>50119622

They remind me of 40k's Dark Eldar. Not just absolutely "cull the weak" Darwinist, but going beyond that to "and the weak must suffer first." The whole "gain demonic energy from causing destruction and suffering" thing is also reminiscent.

As such, I quite like this anon's idea
>>50119423
they'd be more interesting if they were scheming evil rather than stupid evil. Gnolls could still be aimless wandering murderhobos, but maybe be more interesting about it.

eg. see what sort of dumb shit you can convince the humans to do as they try to escape being murdered ("hey we need to borrow your priest and we'll go away")
eg. fuck with the village using mimicry to convince them friendly forces have arrived just so you can dash their hopes
eg. have long sieges where they basically attack only opportunistically and instead use psychological warfare while starving the town out ("oh hey that looks like John they have over there outside the town gate. what are they- oh god what the fuck")

Maybe that's 2edgy.

>>50119970
>If you're trying to make a fantasy world without humans, elves, dwarves, halflings, and gnomes and are filling their places with stuff that's weird and different, I'll grant you a pass on that.

(Not the anon you replied to, but)
Speaking of which, I have been tossing around the idea of doing exactly this for awhile. Basically the concept would be an untouched area of the world where elves and humans generally do not bother to go. As such, the other races are the focus of the story. There'd still be good and evil, but with hints of blue vs orange sort of stuff (I was thinking along the lines of "pantheist neutral-ish anarchoprimitivistfags" vs "enterprising organized quasi-imperialfags", with other factions on the side).

What are some good underappreciated anthropomorphic races? They don't have to be from DnD since I'm going full snowflake anyway.

Included for sure:
>Dryads/ents
>Beastmen
>Kobolds and/or lizardmen
>Gnolls
>Ogres
>Only humans and/or elves are necromancers who were driven away from their native lands

Not a furry I swear
Sorry for going off topic but I don't want to start a thread just for this.

I run a campaign where gnolls play an intermediary role as officers for the BBEG, commanding armies of orcs and other dumber humanoids. The gnolls have kind of a skaven mentality, so even though they're individually clever, they're too conniving and individualist to work together in large groups. The only thing that kept them in line is that they were absolutely terrified of the wizard they worked for. I portrayed them as being good at manipulating and controlling their orc and ogre forces, but terrible at working with other gnolls, because they constantly tried to undercut each other, to the point that the pcs have started playing them against each other.

>>50116756
>half human, half human-hyena hybrid
>75% human, 25% hyena
sounds like a furry to me

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>>50120086

You're lacking some flavor of birdfolk.

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>>50116703
>kakopo

Don't dis the 'po.

>>50114145
>5e prior to Volo was orc rape monster edition

The examples of who they mate with however were typically "strong" You didn't have them mating with elves, or halflings, you had dwarves, humans, trolls, and ogres. Plus I like that they mate for strength rather than just rape all willy nilly. Luthic's philosophy was all about mating to grow in strength. Raping and mating weak creatures doesn't make sense. The creatures of a race of strong beings, does.

>>50113527
Far more interesting than furry bullshit.

>>50119998
Well, seeing how they have specialized "spirit breakers" specifically for psychologically destroying their prisoners, It think they're already well into the scheming evil assholes territory

>>50120086
You always need some manner of bug people. Bug people are awesome.

>>50120677
>>50120472

Thanks for the suggestions, anon. I want to include both but I'll have to give a lot of thought to how to make them unique.

It also just came to mind that I forgot about trolls.

>>50120631
>Raping and mating weak creatures doesn't make sense.
Orcs are oppressively patriarchal polygamists. They view wives as wealth, and having more than another guy gives you status over him. They clearly value quantity over quality and thus the female does not need to be particularly exceptional. If the man is strong, the child is strong, because the man is who is important. Women are just objects that exist to express his importance.

Besides that, Orc genes are strong and non-orcs can pop out full orcs regardless of what they were.

Also, they gave an example of humans and dwarves in the entry, but never said crossbreeding was restricted to them. They could, and probably do mate with anything in their general size range. There's also the description of them procreating "often and indiscriminately". Orcs are not choosy rapists, with the possible exception of elves, what with their racial blood feud.

>>50120771
Hivemind bugs may be a bit cliche, but I think you can make it something interesting if you really dig in and flesh out a culture around it and avoid making them all personality-less zerg hordes

>>50120847
That's fucking boring. Brutally oppressive meritorious polygamy is much more interesting. The weak are possessions, you are broken down and made equal, you must rise by your own strength or be a slave to your greaters.

>>50120907

The first thing that comes to mind is something more like the Hindu caste system; each bugdude has a place he's born into. They're not all personality-less zerg, but do have a strong authoritarian culture. Basically taking cultural references from India + Confucian China.

Or something like that.

>>50120952
I agree, but D&D has spent a long time painting the picture of asshole, wanton rapist orcs. To say 5e doesn't depict them as such is just wrong

>>50120631
>You didn't have them mating with elves, or halflings, you had dwarves, humans, trolls, and ogres
They hate elves and halflings probably wouldn't survive the sex
>>50120952
I'm not even sure D&D orcs even accept women as possible equals. 3.5 had that rule where women were not allowed to have weapons of any kind and must always obey their husbands/men. Seems like women are forced to stay at the bottom of their society. They're like bizzaro drow.

>>50119970
>any attempt to create a character of an unorthodox race is special snowflake

It's only special snowflake if the only noticeable quality they have is their race, and is their reason/excuse for everything they do.

>>50119970
Look mate, I'm the first person to hate dindus but when you can morally justify "Burn the crops and kill the women and children, they're just going to grow up to be and/or make more little assholes that are going to be a problem later", it's gone a bit too far.

When you make a race antagonists out of pure evil, people aren't going to bother learning or caring about what little nuances or customs they have. They are just going to slaughter on sight, and not bother with the personal touches. At that point, the race and it's members just become "random monster #23" and when that happens, any extra info or trivia or lore is just a bunch of useless text and pointless exposition that can handwaves with "Yeah, yeah, they're dickheads. We know this already, now let me stab the fucker".

>>50117779
How would he hear with it covered with metal?

>>50122442

No.
Fucking.
Shit.

are gnolls like orcs from lotr but dogs?

>>50122581

Read this
>>50103034

4e Gnolls >>>>>>>> 5e Gnolls (which are just "evil hyena people lol"

>>50122548
And you think this is a good thing?! An entire race that exists purely to make killing them a good action. Why fuck don't you just DOOM it up then and make your antagonists minor and/or major demons/devils? then they would at least have an in-game justification for not haveing been genocided into extinction. Using a race of mundane physical creatures to be your pure evil is a waste of potential, as is Turing them into demons when you already have demons.

What if we made Gnolls scavengers or some shit, or mayby they are hyenas that ate human souls or something and gained some of humanities intelligence and form. while they are not by default evil, they do possess a hunger for human flesh and need it to survive. they don't need it that often though and many of them still prefer scavenging over direct violence.

>>50122592
>Using a race of mundane physical creatures to be your pure evil is a waste of potential, as is Turing them into demons when you already have demons.
Turning them into mundane dog people when you already have mundane evil hordes is a waste of potential.

>>50122592
This is actually an important point. Besides just personal preference for irredeemable psychos over less hardcore forms of self-interest, how have they even managed to survive this long?

Zombies get raised by evil wizards or random magical reasons, but for gnolls, if they get genocided, its over. Traditionally, they at least had the discipline to make alliances with other savage humanoids against common enemies, and presumably to not throw them away to go on psycho-killing sprees. Gnolls aren't that tough. A level 4 adventurer could wipe out a whole village, and how rare can those be?

>>50123089
>>50123237
Personally, I think orcs are better for this. They even look more like a plastic-forehead generic subhuman #52. Sure Warcraft eventually made them into even more generic green humans, but by and large, orcs are, in my experience, the go-to evil fodder race.
Maybe its just me, playing a campaign with gnolls being eternally cast as bland, faceless bags of hitpoints seems like playing a sci-fi game where you go to an alien planet and find a species with radically different biology and habits, but the DM does nothing with it, and you end up just wiping them out. It sends mixed messages to make an aesthetically weird race that intrigues people with its monstrosity, but then do nothing in the fluff to make them stand out.

>>50123764

What about what I said made them sound like bland bags of HP, they are scavengers, not raiders.

>>50123617
Gnolls are brought into the world by a demon killing a human and hyenas eating the corpse. The hyenas become gnolls and start racking up numbers on commoners. They go long enough some can convert more corpses to gnolls and some gain demonic powers.

They are essentially a natural disaster and once wiped will only come back somehwere else.

>>50123850
whoops, quoted the wrong post. meant >>50122592

>>50124008
Ugh, the 5e lore just seems so bizarre to me. Shouldn't demons spawn smaller demons or some kind of undead, not something completely unrelated? Its like they're implying demons and hyenas are so common in every setting that they can spawn an entire race of orc knockoffs.
If a wolf or a lion eats a carcass from a demon, does it turn into a wolf or lion furry? Because 90% of predators will eat carrion if they have a chance, hyenas are just better at it.

>>50102398
Because unlike a lot of the more iconic races, that have more developed personalities, Gnolls have no precedence in fiction/fantasy before D&D. Vampires, Demons, and other such monsters existed before the creation of D&D and such have thousands of years of mythology and fiction to draw upon to make them interesting.

Even Orcs, who where originally created as a counter to elves, have had 60 years of writers looking at this previously unknown idea an adding their own spin on it. Why? Because they where put at the forefront of the story because they where the bad guys and the main threat of LoTRs.

Gnolls have never been the main threat of any story, they where always a thing that was buried in the back of the monster manual.

It's the same with Beholders, they maybe D&D's most iconic monster but no one has really taken interest in developing them because they are extremely silly looking.

Also because Hyena's IRL are pretty much the most evil fucking things on the planet.

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>>50112201
Oh I didn't think anyone would bother to respond

I'm gonna tl;dr about ten years of campaign and sum it up as time breaking so hard that it had a Big Crunch and mashed itself into one megalithic eden planet made up of the patchwork ruins of countless dead timelines.

The world is incredibly high in mana, lifeforce, and mythical fauna. Currently, as the game nears the end, certain events is leading to the already Eden-ish planet to start taking on elements of the divine, making it a literal Heaven On Earth in places, as it starts to experience a potential transition to becoming a divine plane.

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>>50112255
Yeah I didn't think I was unclear, just saying I've had a lot of fun using gnolls, who became funnily relevant to the lore of the campaign

>>50124324
>Gnolls have never been the main threat of any story
They led to the collapse of Nerath, the largest human empire in the PoL setting of 4e

>>50124324
>Also because Hyena's IRL are pretty much the most evil fucking things on the planet.
Lions are bigger assholes than them. Bears, dolphins and chimps also rate higher on the asshole animal chart. Move into the realm of insects and parasites and you'll find bed bugs, spider wasps, bot flies and horse hair worms are all agents of satan and just a few of the many horrors that should not be.

>>50124763
That's the setting for Dungeons and Dragons, not really a story. What I'm talking about novels, tv shows, ect. Stuff outside of the realm of Dungeons and Dragons.

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>>50125016
I mean, cats are pretty brutal on their own, they just have a sweet deal domesticated. Same with dogs. Dog attacks still happen a lot too. Domesticate a hyena down the generations and I wouldn't be surprised if they'd just resemble rowdy catdogs. They just have a neat niche and setup in the ecosystem that's hardcore by default. And yeah they have nothing on the raw murderlust of most insects.

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>>50102398
Not enough Gnoll in this Gnoll thread

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>>50125485
Demonic hyena a best

Even if they're 100% civil it's the best look

>>50125587
The Aesthetic is nice, but the Fluffwise concept is just "discount demons" shit.

>>50125485
Anon that is giving me a confused boner, please stop.

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>>50125615
>The Aesthetic is nice, but the Fluffwise concept is just "discount demons" shit.

No, I'm talking about appearance-wise. I like gnolls best whe

>>50125615
>Anon that is giving me a confused boner, please stop.

christ

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>>50125640
I am sick man and I need help Anon, but years of this shit has pushed me too far. I have fapped to things that 5 years ago, I would have run away in fear from.

What have I become...

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>>50125665
Go to bed, anon. Tomorrow is a new day.

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>>50103406
Well played Anon. Well played.

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>>50104741
You have been beat down by cute animal pics of animals that are not even cute. Perhaps you should reconsider your life?

4es

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>>50125953
What are you even on about, fag?

>>50125197
This is the biggest problem with Gnolls. They don't really appear outside of D&D. Its the game they appear in.

I fucking love gnolls, but D&D is it for them.
Even if someone used them in something else, they would need a hell of a budget to make decent looking gnolls if it was some sort of visual medium.

It sucks. I like gnolls. I like them a vicious monsters. But I like em.
They are like orcs, but they are worse. They dont form real lasting things. They don't even make their own weapons for christssake.

And if you want to play a gnoll, imo you need a valid reason why he isnt like other gnolls. That said I fucking love the characters Ive seen come from this..

>>50126993
I actually did read a book with gnolls in them. They were called goblins, but the physical description - patches of spotted fur, short toothy muzzles capable of crushing and eating bone - was totally gnollish. They even hailed from the setting's arid regions. They were written as generic bad guy minions, but the story was about vampirrs so they took up the main bad guy spot

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>>50104714
I use them as the typical "evil for the sake of being evil," race to replace orcs because I'm a piece of shit who likes Warcraft style noble savage orcs.

>>50122442
>When you make a race antagonists out of pure evil, people aren't going to bother learning or caring about what little nuances or customs they have. They are just going to slaughter on sight, and not bother with the personal touches

You say this like it's a bad thing.

>>50127149
Do games really need an evil just to be evil race? Isn't it possible to have fully fleshed out races, yet still have PCs kill them wholesale because they believe things we don't believe? I mean it worked so well irl.

>>50111696
>two shitty settings
I am sorry people are not enabling your furry fetish anon, but a furry fetish is not the ideal way to determine which settings are good to play in.

>>50127939
They don't, but by the same margin making a race fully fleshed out and full of game fuel doesn't mean they aren't a fully evil race too.

>>50102502
>implying OP didn't just make this thread as a continuation of that thread

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>>50111696
>Glorantha
>shitty setting
>the ducks demand a full thane's weregild as compensation for this insult

>>50124324
I like that hyena episode of Buffy.

>>50124274
Well the demon has cult that arranges that shit too.

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>>50126993
>They don't really appear outside of D&D
Not precisely true

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>>50129386
>mfw gnolls in DC are literally the result of a demigod being raised among hyenas and fucking too many hyneas

There is a pic of a baby/pup gnoll sittin on the ground kinda looking at the "camera" i think. I've been looking for it for ages if someone could provide it to me i would be very grateful

>>50129852
Wait...what?! You're joking right? Please tell me you're joking!


What the Fuck kinda magical realm shit is going on over at D.C.?

>>50129852
Seems like a pretty random place to include mythologically accurate elements.

>>50129883
Oh, that sounds exactly like something out of Greek myth and you know it. They're just being faithful to Wonder Woman's source material.

>>50123617
>level 4 adventurer could wipe out a whole village
In 5e, for a single adventurer 3 gnolls are a deadly encounter.

>>50129883
Nobody reads wonder woman so they can do whatever they want and no one will notice

>>50129945
...yeah that's a good point actually. I could totally see some son of Zues getting on with some animals, not necessarily while in animal form either.

>>50129957
>In 5e, for a single adventurer 3 gnolls are a deadly encounter.

Yeah, but 5e's definition of "deadly" is pretty weak sauce. For a party, "deadly" seems to mean "Be careful, somebody MIGHT die in the process of slaughtering all these bad guys."
So 3 gnolls are not a cakewalk for one level 4 adventurer? Send two.

>>50129883
Censorship fucks like you need to die and disappear from anything where people actually create something.

>>50130128

Whoa, dude, hostile. Settle down there. Sure, he's overreacting, but not as much as you are.

>>50116756
>Flind
>Half-human

... wut. Flinds have never been portrayed as half-humans in any previous lore. They were, ever since the Fiend Factory, just a shorter, stockier version of the gnoll with nunchucks and intelligence/charisma - for a gnoll.

>>50110177
The webcomic Digger has great Gnolls. I recommend that.
It was popular is some circles.

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>>50129883
Nope.

Azzarello's Wonder Woman run was great if only for how its Greek gods acted like Greek gods.

>>50127939
>>50127222
It really depends on the kind of game you want to run. Some groups find any kind of world-building between combat encounters to be an annoying distraction. If you lean more towards that end of the spectrum, then you already have the full support of 90% of published material, as this is the default way of handling almost anything found in a monster manual. Nothing that happens on this site has a chance of taking that away.

However, there are some groups, and especially some DMs, who consider coming up with lore to be part of the fun. These people aren't looking for reasons to avoid developing races, but may feel that the published material doesn't give a good enough starting point for further development in this particular case.

Granted, they got about as much official support in 4e as any monster race has a right to expect from the publisher, but some of us are kind of upset that they've decided to chuck all that in the garbage bin as of 5e.

>>50128052
never played it, but judging from >>50128162
it sure looks like furshit to me. Warhammer's Not!Cultures and furries get a pass because the game itself focused on mass warfare rather than roleplaying private fantasies.

>>50129386
Yeah, gnolls have no future. Even when they do break free of the D&D sandpit, they're still just furries with brain-damage.

>>50129386
That is fucking awesome.

>>50132187
Dude, how have you not heard of Glorantha?

>>50131811
>zeus bangs some palestinian chick
>has a kid
>hera shows up
>summons a storm to scatter sheep and cause a ruckus
>maybe kills the chicks mother?

this sounds pretty on point to greek mythology.

>>50132187
You have an entirely wrong impression of glorantha. It's quite possibly one of the most creative settings currently out there and is the default setting of the runequest ttrpgs. It would be far too many words to properly describe it to you so I'll just tell you to learn to google

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>>50132576
She does this to the girl
Proper greek gods never stop at simply killing people. That's considered a mercy.

>>50132676
yea Hera was always pretty spiteful.

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>>50103894
> being degenerate enough to accept "rape, murder, cannibalism, demon rape, & bestiality"
> upset because people draw the line at " females have a penis and essentially give birth and have sex through urethral insertion"
Maybe people just havent quite lost all of their standards and morality yet anon, maybe some people still have souls?

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>>50104439
> Bill Nye as a Commissar
> as if that little faggot could even lift let alone battle heresy
But I agree usually gnolls are just "jobbers" who act as hired muscle for some dumb warlock or something

>>50132830
Actually as far as I can tell they're usually free agents of chaos and destruction. It's just by being that, they don't organize well and rarely become a large scale threat

>>50120631
>>50120847
>>50120952
>Niggas casually describing how rape works in their respective fantasy worlds.

Whelp enough internet for today

>>50132875
You misunderstand. It's a casual debate over how rape works in the default dnd fantasy world

>>50132860
That said, they are definitely a small scale threat that someone HAS to deal with. Probably adventurers of some sort. I cant really see an organized army keeping up with gnolls unless they have an adventureresque strike team of some sort.

Gnolls really work as a special out of context problem. I feel their persona as #justtheworst adds to this. The fact that their core appearance feels more mocking of humans than orcs or goblins. Gnolls just have an awful spooky connotation that hobgoblins and orcs cant do.

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>>50102688
Here it is: http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd4/images/3/31/367_Dragon.pdf/revision/latest?cb=20140630015601

>>50133235
The pdf is already posted in this thread you knoe

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>>50132576
>maybe kills the chicks mother?

She also tears the kid apart with a sandstorm but keeps her alive as a million scattered particles of flesh, constantly in pain.

Over time she turns into some kind of angry wind ghost.

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>>50133020
> "How rape works in the default dnd fantasy world"
> step 1: Find rapist orcs / monsters / humanoids
> step 2: pummel their heads until the top of their torso looks like a lump of pink paste, then continue to burn their village and erase all trace or history of their culture.
> step 3: Establish a chaotic good empire on the broken ruins of the former Orc settlement
> step 4: Enjoy

Because they are furry.
Because they clash with the standard fantasy medieval europe setting.

>>50133728
No wonder Zeus fucked other women.

>>50133906
>they clash with the standard fantasy medieval europe setting

Wait, what?

Why?

Personally I've found that people are more inclined to use gnolls as the standard monster race ever since orcs became misunderstood noble savages.

>>50133968
They live in the steppe and are based on hyenas, neither of those things exist in Europe.

>>50134045
>steppe
>not european

M8, almost half of the Eastern Europe is covered in that shit.

>>50134045
>steppes
Wut. Hyenas are savannah predators

>>50134142
And used to live in Europe back in the Ice Age.

But then again Europe and Africa shared like half of their megafauna back then.

>>50127109
>>50129386
Really Gnolls, if they ever appear in fiction, end up become one shot villains that don't really get much more screen time.

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>>50129870
This one?

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>>50129870
Or this one

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There weren't any stats for gnoll PCs in Volo's, were there? ;___;

>>50137312
Nope. 5e basically takes the basic concept of "gnolls are Yeenoghu's direct creation" from 4e (see the Playing Gnolls PDF up near the top of the thread) and doubles down on all the chaotic evil monster shit whilst excising all the PC potential.

I got my own homebrew stats, and I'm glad I have them after this debacle, but there's no PC stats and may never be.

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>>50136864
That's a good pic! It's not TOO cute, that little slobbery fuck is a rather gluttonous carnivore after all, but the scene gives the general vibe of a pack/family out hunting/gathering without too much CE tropes.

Good compromise between "kawaii!!!!" and "KILL THESE FUCKS FOR XP".

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>>50137414
Fuck it, I'll just go with half-orc stats then...

True neutral guy that doesn't wanna kill everything he sees, but once shit's dead (as things will be in D&D) why let it go to waste...?
Can't speak common, maybe understands (some of) it, but do know sylvan from living all his life and being a little in tune with the forest: Party druid gonna have to be his handler.

Barb/Warr I guess, but would be kinda cool to up his CHA to make room for a neutral variant of OoA paladin? Not so much "GOOOOD!!!" as keeping the balance of nature...

>>50137670
If you're curious, this is what I homebrewed for gnoll-stats. Don't know how balanced it is, can't get any feedback on 'em.

Gnoll
Ability Score Modifier: +2 Constitution
Size: Medium
Speed: 30 feet
Vision: Darkvision
Filth-Eater's Gullet: A gnoll has Resistance to Poison and Advantage on Constitution checks against Disease.
Ripping Jaws: A gnoll can choose to Bite as an Unarmed Strike. Doing so causes its attack to inflict 1d4 Piercing damage as a basis.
Ghostly Whispers: A gnoll has Advantage on any check made to mimic the voice of another being, such as a bluff check against a target who can’t see the gnoll to convince them that the gnoll is someone else.
Subrace: Choose between the Butcher’s Brood, Hyena’s Soul or Bouda subraces to determine the rest of your racial traits.


Butcher’s Brood Gnoll
Ability Score Increase: +1 Strength
Rampage: When a Butcher’s Brood Gnoll reduces a creature to 0 hit points on its turn with a melee attack, it can take a bonus action to move up to half its speed and make a bite attack.
Blood Frenzy: Once per turn, a Butcher’s Brood Gnoll which has taken damage from an enemy attack can use its Reaction to deliver a bite attack to an enemy in reach.


Hyena’s Soul Gnoll
Ability Score Increase: +1 Wisdom
Far-Roamer: A Hyena’s Soul Gnoll increases its base movement speed to 35 feet.
Bred to Hunt: A Hyena’s Soul Gnoll has Advantage on Wisdom (Perception) checks made to follow a trail or discover someone hiding.


Bouda
Ability Score Increase: +1 Charisma
Veil of Humanity: A Bouda has Advantage on Charisma (Deception) checks made to pass itself off as a member of another race.
Walker Between: A Bouda has Resistance to Necrotic damage.

>>50136840
>>50136864
None of this but still thabk you. It was like a young boy shirtless i think.

The party just saved a young gnoll from drows. His pack had been captured and sold as slaves separately

The are two girls in the group. The wizard and the ranger. They both "adopted" the pup as soon as i told them it was a "baby hyena" and i want to give them a visual reference to make them fall in love even more with him hehe

There is an art of a young gnoll holding a spear. The one im telling you is similar in color and desing... or maybe its that one and my brain just mixed it all

>>50134045
>>50134102
>>50134186
He has a point. The stereotypical campaign is set in medieval england because Tolkien and GRRM. There were no hyenas in medieval england, hence no anglosphere folklore involving hyenas or hyena-men.

You might not think that should be a reason for something to be unpopular, but if you're reading this thread, chances are you're a statistical outlier in a lot of ways. Most people would have never even heard of hyenas if it wasn't for the lion king.

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>>50138654

>>50127939
I have them fleshed out, but they're still evil for the sake of it. They're animalistic, savage, and exist to raid, pillage, and consume.

Had a lot of fun coming up with their hierarchy, though. Worked it off of actual hyena packs where the females rule and the largest male is still outranked by the smallest female.

This thread made me curious, so I looked up "gnoll" on Wikipedia. Here are some illuminating excerpts:

>The creature described as the gnole first appeared in 1912, in Lord Dunsany's 1912 story "How Nuth Would Have Practised His Art upon the Gnoles", and reappeared in Margaret St. Clair's "The Man Who Sold Rope to the Gnoles". In Middle English the word "noll" could refer to a stupid or very drunk person.

>Lord Dunsany's story gives little or nothing in the way of physical description of the gnoles, but they live on the edge of a sinister wood and watch intruders through holes bored in trees. They are said to own emeralds of very large size. In St. Clair's story they also live on the edge of a wood, watch through holes bored in trees and prize emeralds, but a "senior gnole" is described as looking "like a Jerusalem artichoke" and, although he has feet, has tentacles rather than arms and no ears. His eyes are small, red and faceted like a gemstone.

>The gnoll, as introduced in the earliest edition of the Dungeons & Dragons game, is the literary descendant of Lord Dunsany's gnoles, who were clever, evil and nonhuman. In the Dungeons & Dragons "white box" set, gnolls are described as "A cross between gnomes and trolls (...perhaps, Lord Dunsany did not really make it all that clear) with +2 morale. Otherwise they are similar to hobgoblins..."

>With the 1977 publication of Gygax's Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Monster Manual gnolls were described as hyena-men, a characterization that continues to the present. This book also describes Yeenoghu, a demon lord that many gnolls devote themselves to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnoll#Original_conceptions

I really like the idea of Gnolls and Tieflings getting along in a Lawful Evil city:
Gnolls pick up the trash, maintain the sewers, and dispose of the bodies. Tieflings are the odd-job handymen and women while acting as everyone's negotiator.
Anyone else like this idea?

>>50132789

He doesn't literally "love it", it's an expression.
Are you actually retarded?

>>50138860
Holy shit Lord Dunsany. Never thought I'd read that name around here.
That guy was awesome: doing fantasy world building before Tolkien... Since H.P. Lovecraft was a fan of Dunsany, I think a connection between their creatures, plus Gygax is in order.
The question is, would Yeenoghu get along with the other gods of Lovecraft's mythos?

Maybe a Deep One mixed with Gnoll would produce murderous sea otter folk who would bash your brain with a rock for the glory of the gods.

>>50104974
Hyenas can seem pretty doglike in some ways.

>>50111191
It depends on what the society views as insane. If the norm is to be a murdering vandal, then the abnormal would be wanting to be nice and pick flowers.

I like gnolls who look like uruk-hai but act more like Aussie trolls trying to rile people up all the goddamn time

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>>50138860
You know what would be a fun one-shot?

Play a game where every race has to be played and statted to its most primal origin in known myth. Like where the name was very first used, use that to its most exact description.

>>50102398
Furries.

/tg/'s come up with some fun concepts over the years. One I particularly remember is gnolls being actually avid philosophers who spent so much time trying to answer the questions to life, they capture slaves just so they don't have to do any mundane tasks for themselves.

I personally enjoy dusting off an older deity related to the gnolls, Gorellik. It always seems like a shame how he's barely there as a footnote for the gnolls, and it's fun to include his worship more prominently, if nothing else for an excuse for gnolls to fight amongst themselves.

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>>50140969
I have a gnoll in my game who is searching for the answers to life and her origins as a chaos race in the art of cooking, and the meaning of having to kill to eat to survive. Fun quiet background character, and an excuse for the occasional cooking scene.

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>not a single post about finding a Alpha Gnoll and fucking her until she is submissive
Where has my /tg/ gone

>>50140969
>gnolls being actually avid philosophers who spent so much time trying to answer the questions to life
Ah yes, such important questions as "what do humans taste like?" and "if a baby burns alive in an orphanage and no one's around to hear it, does it make a sound?"

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>>50141071
That sounds nice. I've been wanting to make a gnoll character that fell in with a group of half-orc mercenaries and learned some rough civilization from them, worships a storm god.

>>50141107
It was actually because some anon noticed how some hyena behaviors and anatomy is catlike and some is doglike, and joked that gnolls would be tearing themselves apart trying to figure out which ones they were more. I think more legitimate ideas sprang from there, but I'm not sure what.

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>>50141148
>That sounds nice. I've been wanting to make a gnoll character that fell in with a group of half-orc mercenaries and learned some rough civilization from them, worships a storm god.

Shit, that sounds cool. I'm still designing a tribe of gnolls the PCs are going to meet in a gasfire swamp choked up on ogres and cultists from super-high mana neighboring lands. The idea of some single hulking gnoll who can summon death storms to every fight would make for a neat recurring antagonist.

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>>50141273
Steal the idea dude, do what you want with it. It's always fun to throw something against the PCs that they don't expect - makes for a fun story, throws them a curve. And who'd expect a gnoll that summons storms?

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>>50141337
Well, your idea inspired me because I already had storms lined up, so I made a sudden connection. There's a tribe of undead nagas who have lightning necromancy nesting in ocean city ruin coves to the west, riding an eternal storm. These survivalist scavenger gnolls in the gasfire swamp could have easily made an excursion to there and stolen some forbidden lightningtech stuff, and it gives me a sudden 'ah-dur' idea of how to make them help advance the plot and explain the areas ahead, while also being a fun threat.

>>50140827
I don't think it'd be that fun. Everyone would just be a fairy/goblin.

>>50140969
>gnolls being actually avid philosophers who spent so much time trying to answer the questions to life, they capture slaves just so they don't have to do any mundane tasks for themselves.

Sounds boring and meme-y as fuck.

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>>50141456
That's why you have to dig for the really weird and fucked up shit or takes on the original myth. And then limit it to the best of four and roll with it.

>>50141465
Well what would you find not boring and meme-y?

>>50138228
>Most people would have never even heard of hyenas if it wasn't for the lion king.

Bruh, most people are plebs, but not that pleb.

Not knowing that hyenas exist is pretty exceptional.

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>>50141919
I saw the Lion King somewhat young. Call it part of my already-then existing love of the minor bad guys in any story I experienced, mostly due to being read the Hobbit/LotR as a really young kid, but I loved the hell out of the hyenas despite only knowing a bit, and then researching them and loving them even more as a neat animal.

I was roleplaying since an early age, so I was already into seeing the fantastical of something and then wanting to research it for real for use in a game or just inspiration. Gnolls were pretty neat from early on from seeing so many elves and dwarves.

>>50138887
Gnolls aren't exactly lawful, and they already have trouble doing their own menial labor

>>50141273
>would make for a neat recurring antagonist
Please tell me you won't give this character plot armor