>That moment when, as a GM, you realize your plot has holes

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>>50089154
>That moment when you realize your players are still having fun and decide to go full silly.

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>>50089198
>that moment when you realise that they may be having fun, but you are not

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>>50089220
>That moment when you're one of those players who intentionally points out plotholes to be a troll.

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>>50089154
>TFW only you notice, because the party is too busy shooting, romancing, and/or stealing everything in sight to actually care about the plot.

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>>50089220
>Not having fun when your players are.
Still feels bad when your written plots aren't as well received as your improv.

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>>50089268
>TFW the plot will fuck the players in the ass if they don't pay attention to it

>>50089279
This is something that baffles me sometimes. A lot of people will tell GMs to "just keep doing it" if they aren't enjoying themselves. This is something that really just makes zero sense to me. I'm not there to fellate the players, I'm there to enjoy myself, especially when the players are randos and not friends. This is why I much more often simply drop a player than change how I GM to appease them.

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>>50089279
>Lord Evilbutt is hiding in his intricate castle, waiting for your assault
>"He can wait, let's go ask those fishermen about this knife"

No, I'm not letting it go

>>50089198
>That moment when you realize your players are still having fun and decide to go full silly.

>tfw my players are bunch of cancerous memeing faggots
>Inquisitor commandeers their Rogue Trader ship
>LEL, WE JUST GOT KEKED XD
>Our ship, Guilliman's Herald, MORE LIKE GUILLIMAN'S HERALDISTAN XXXDDDDDDDDDDD

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>tfw losing enthusiasm for game
>tfw trying to resist canceling it

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>>50089154
>the players would rather be involved in ERP scenes than any of the plot, combat or other means of interacting with the NPCs

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>>50089447
Take some time, and watch some related materials.
The kind of shit that gives you inspiration.

You've gotta keep on going mate, being able to run when your interest is flagging is one of the most important parts of being a GM, and the part I struggle most with.

Try and find the joy again. Spice up the game with something new. Try and get your players to be a bit more proactive, get them to set their own path, define their own adventure, and then just decide what unforseen challenges get in their way.

>>50089392
>our wizard was trapped!
>wait, before we save him, can I find somewhere to buy a slave?
>wait, these slaves are being treated like slaves?!? we have to free them!
>3 hours later, the dwarf is trying to bed the slave owner and the wizard player is wondering why he even showed up to the session

>>50089154

Those plot holes are an OPPORTUNITY.
They were caused by TIME WIZARDS.
Players! Fight to SAVE TIME.

>>50089154
All holes have the potential to be filled.

>>50089585
>All holes have the potential to be filled.
t. bard

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>>50089353
I usually play with my friends and derive my pleasure from them having fun.
Also tormenting them as they do stupid things.

>>50089489
>Be Druid
>Try to fuck npc
>but noooo
>we have to go liberate the town from three gangs.

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>>50089585

>>50089154
>>50089220

Being a DM is much like being a con artist: your story will collapse in on itself sooner or later (unless you're ready for autism-tier preparation). The trick is in not being figured out, and being able to bullshit your way out of it if you are figured out.

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>when your players say they like the setting but want to change characters
>actually let's change the entire tone of the setting
>also we want to change systems

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>>50089154
>That moment when the players also realize your game has plot holes and try to look into them

>That moment when you realize you character is way OP so you start getting distracted by other things just so you don't disrupt the games power balance and ruin the fun.
"I won't use my kill all enemies attack till after finish dissecting the first enemy you killed. As a mad scientist I have an obligation to study it for for SCIENCE! (and for at least the next five turns)."

> That moment when the party realizes they can't try any crazy attack plans because some GM made the hallway out of indestructible metal with interlocking doors and dangerously powerful enemies.
"I am sorry but we got a truck full of scuba gear, a large water main line, and a subterranean dungeon of fire monsters that nearly one hit kill us. With no way to retreat. Why can't we just flood the place and at least get a terrain bonus to make the fight fair?"

>>50089585, so true. They tried to make me GM halfway thought the game after I came up with a brilliant way to fill the huge plot holes which everyone said were unfillable, all without using "a wizard did it". As we reached >>50089220 early, but can't say >>50089154 or >>50089198 as GM didn't see any problems with it all.

Yep, it like that >>50089392, if GM made forcefields around the fishermen to prevent you. And party now make a new quest to free the fishermen. GM just didn't get it, and we where thowing soft balls.

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>>50089392
iktf

>Players spend two hours attempting to rub a sheet of blank paper on things in an attempt to trigger 'hidden sidequests'
>Despite my repeatedly informing them in no uncertain terms that the paper was not important, I only mentioned it for set dressing
>They continue, insisting that I am trying to trick them and that they 'know my game'
>I get bitched at via text when the game is done for the night because I 'wasted two hours of their time with a piece of paper'

>>50089154
I just go with it. If the pcs point out to the bad guy something like
"Why don't you just shoot the guy." there will be a long pause, then the bad guy will just bolt to do exactly that. Way to go smartass you got batman killed.

>>50089279
Improv is kind of the whole appeal of a tabletop RPG. Players like seeing the world change around them and react to them, not just finding out which sequence of levers they pushed that you'd already accounted for.

Improv being better-received than your written plots is always going to be the case, unless your improve is noteworthily bad.

>>50089392
>"He can wait, let's go ask those fishermen about this knife"
"They say it's a nice knife and would buy if from you if they had the money, now get a fucking move on."
PROBLEM SOLVED
R
O
B
L
E
M

S
O
L
V
E
D

>>50090407
This. If a player points out a plot hole, roll with it. Most plot holes can be solved if you're creative enough. Make a mystery out of it for them to solve.

>But anon, 2 sessions ago you told us the mayor supported Faction X; why is he now doing stuff to help Faction Y?
Good question...why indeed? I could just tell them I forgot, or I could have some fun with it.

>>50090455
I had some particularly weird ones in this case because my players rolled high spot checks and i felt i had to reward that.

So at one point they found out a table in the cafeteria was a doorknob for a secret trap door to the floor and one 19 in diplomacy later they successfuly convinced a undead giant to buy cookies off them.

>>50090514
Sold only legendary knife that can hurt the final boss to fishermen for few gold.

How bad does this mess with the plot?

>>50090824
The PCs like die the dumbasses they are.

>>50090859
They then play the fisherman.

>>50090571
that sounds like the best session.

>>50091206
They did enjoy it, the premise is that the gods made a regenerating dungeon for their faithful to prove themselves in. Come post apoc a kobold warlord now sends prisoners down there as a magic item mine.

Then these guys stumble onto the big bad bottom dungeon extra boss early and won a magic skull that they could use to talk to him because he's a swell guy.

They later encountered a minotaur turned into a talking ham that doubled as a magic weapon. (Also improv, there is a god who you can reach from ANY door and they just went to a random door in his house).

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>>50090514
>railroading

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>>50089279
I'm running L5R atm. Magistrate game. They had a simple mission that was supposed to take a session.

It has been 12 gameplay hours since they started. The Kakita has begun taking Biwa lessons. The Suzume hit it off with a guard. The Kitsune fought some randoms at the gambling house for cheating.

The murdered Bayushi yojimbo they were in town for still have not been solved. They talked to one person and then never followed up on the evidence. It's been like 5 days in game. The scorpion diplomat who lost his bodyguard is not impressed at their efficiency, which they'd find out if they haven't been avoiding him.

>>50091318
I don't think you know what that word means.

>>50089154
>that moment when one of the PCs realizing this too and makes a big fit OOC about it in front of everyone

>>50093852
Railroading is whenever the GM doesn't empower a PC for acting like a shithead.

>>50089154
The trick is to never admit to anything. Your players are only seeing part of the story. Keep playing it straight and even if you can't figure out how it makes sense they'll figure out how it makes sense. If neither of you can make sense of it throw in something else inconsistent until they find the "pattern."

>>50089154
That would require that my plot is as deep as the ocean.
I have no such delusions. I had a player tell me I should write fantasy, but he doesn't know I made half of that shit up on the spot and made the other half by taking the stuff I've already made up to its natural conclusions. By induction, my plot should be full of shit, but it somehow hobbles its way along.
I find the important part is entertaining the players. Sometimes that requires smoke and mirrors, sometimes that requires hard consistency at every level.
Don't freak out too much.

>>50091171
I actually like this idea.
>PCs are a bunch of regular jackasses
>Are sold a bunch of crap for all their money because a party member is an idiot
>All of the shit they bought is a bunch of magical gear that increases their ability scores, magic staffs, and magic weapons created by an old wizard.
>Party are pretty much unskilled jackasses on steroids saving the world
A level 1 party with legendary magical items seems like it would be fun.

>>50089392
Fuck this so much.
>Players are interested in a particular door in a tower I haven't finished planning for, thankfully I'm at least prepared to deal with them
>They end up ripping and burning off the wood of the door with some effort
>Remove it from the screen and reveal the metal layer behind, have my DM chuckles and start hinting that they should move on and that they'll be better equipped for this later
>Wait no
>Players go full retard and spend an entire session trying to decipher the door's secrets, its magic locking mechanism, its favorite color
>Eventually take pity and tell them they've made progress toward unlocking its secrets, maybe with time they'll-
>Fuck they start telling me about how many rations, waterskins, and campgear they have and demanding to spend weeks of time in game doing nothing but studying this contraption and its abjuration field.
>They spend the rest of the session doing this despite my eventually blatant suggestions otherwise. No one is happy or satisfied. Nothing got done but time wasted in game and out.
They did eventually leave and come back and got in it, but damn do I hate wasting an entire week.

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>>50089509

Hey now, Carol hasn't had a drink in that uniform yet.

>>50090336
>goes on for 2 hours
>not just making the paper relevant

>>50095065
Make it into a broom cupboard, have it open outside the tower, put magic writing from another dimension on it with next weeks date.

Don't let your players waste their time on it if it's not relevant.

>>50089548
The only right answer.

>>50095065
You're fucking stupid.

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>>50094841
>That would require that my plot is as deep as the ocean.
OH GOD YOU FOUND ANOTHER ONE!!!!!

>the moment I realized my GM stuck us in a 30 to multi-thousand year time loop

>End campaign mid combat
>Next campaign is 25 years in the past
>"Don't worry about paradoxes"

>Allows the entire second session of the new campaign to be economics instead of the plot with him fully invested in it.


How do I keep a good GM happy? He seems to enjoy doing this.

>>50089535
>wait, before we save him, can I find somewhere to buy a slave?
>wait, these slaves are being treated like slaves?!? we have to free them!

Top kek

>>50090514
Yeah no. Do you really think that players would take a no for an answer, you sweet naive boy? They're going to keep on asking the next fisherman and the next after him, even if you'd scream at them its not relevant until you're red in the face.

>>50095325
That would only encourage such behavior in the future.

>>50095325
3 sessions later.

"You find a sack of regular dirt near the altar, along with a banshee's tears the still moving head of an undead bull"
>Hey shopkeeper, have can you tell me something about this dirt?
OH FUCK RIGHT OFF

>>50089154
>tfw watch a video reviewing an anime you enjoy
>realize the anime has some major problems
>realize your own story sucks dick

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>>50089154
>story has plot holes
>players roll so bad they literally crash reality
>FUCK IT
>BEGIN TO INTENTIONALLY INTRODUCE PLOT HOLES TO MAKE THEM QUESTION THEIR OWN EXISTENCE
>GAME BETTER THAN EVER

ANOTHER GAME, ANOTHER VICTORY

>>50089154
>that moment when you realize your plot has massive holes
>but you embrace it into it being the work of the campaign's BBEG rewriting reality (poorly)

>>50098146
>"It's the legendary Most Regular Dirt. It behaves like normal dirt all the time."

>>50098350
Please don't post gore. This is a blue board.

>>50098350
I tried to reproduce this trick
Fug, it's actually much harder that I thought

>>50089661
THE BEARS DO NOT COUNT AS NPCS FOR THE LAST TIME

>>50095065

To be fair, your players do NOT know your World, you've set up this amazing magical door or whatever and they, as adventurers, are curious. All you had to do was let them in, see that it was an empty room, plain, with nothing of note and on they could go.

Or you could've used this to hide a captured surprised NPC or something and added to the story.

Your lack of imagination as a DM is what stalled the game for a week, not the players.

You were railroading them to all fuck.

>>50089912
I lol'd

>>50089318
What would this plot be like? I'm curious, since I've never taken this approach to bringing about plot investment before

>>50098509
The trick is to cut your thumb off before hand and replace it with a perfect silicone prosthetic. Trying to pull your thumb off normally will be very hard and produce a less clean outcome if successful

>>50098603
Introduce sleeper agents everywhere?

>>50090407
I do that occasionally. Or if I tell them something dumb about the area and they go "wait why is it this dumb?" I go "Yes, very good question". Makes them think there's a reason.

Like recently I fucked up by giving them a manuscript that addresses a prominent NPC along the lines of "good job at being a traitor, we will reward you". and the players went "why did they make it this obvious?"

Well now there is a reason for that, and that NPC was going to be framed or used to distract the city from an attempted coup

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>>50089154
Like my fuckwit PC's have any clue there's a plot
>Fills in holes with extra-cunty 'random' encounters and possibility of something shiny

>>50089154
>Be paramilitary group in magical post-apocalypse
>Get news that local wizard is making a form of magical artillery
>He's been buying large amounts of magical artefacts recently, and he's an accomplished weather mage
>We're going to destroy the weapon, maybe kill the mage
>He lives in the ruins of a medieval castle, on a barren mountaintop
>Small village lives under his protection
>Confront wizard
>Turns out he's actually making a staff that creates a permanent artificial weather system
>He's been working on it for over a decade, says he's going to turn the mountain into a lush and fertile oasis
>We all think this is a great idea
>One player asks him if he's aware that no amount of good weather will make a mountain with no real arable soil fertile
>Wizard stops, dumbfounded
>A quick talk with him makes it clear that while he knows a fuckton about weather, he doesn't actually know the first thing about farming or geology
>He just kind of assumed good weather would solve it
>He believe since things were better before the apocalypse, and he's recreating pre-apocalypse weather, everything would become better on the mountain
>We crushed his dreams
>GM is good at improvising, so I have no idea if he was planning the wizard to be misled or if he realised the fault in the wizard's plan and just went with it
>Not sure if we found a huge plot hole or if this was all part of his master plan

>>50098603

It can be as easy as the bbeg doing stuff in the background but allowing your players to do whatever they want in mean time

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>Players are at "The mountain" waiting for a floating Island to make contact on it
>Dwarven city inside
>Religiously fanatical Dwarves with council as the highest order of command
>Plationian society, Merchants, workers, army and leaders seperated into castes, no families
>Players slay a troll and some Ice elemental for some dwarves at an outpost
>As one part of the prize, they get to go to the main city and participate in the Tournament there
>One part of the party is most likely going to infiltrate the city and stop the drink that makes the dwarves fanatical, while the others are going to go to the Tournament
>Winners of the tournament gets to influence the dwarven society by making a new rule, suggestion of what to do, etc.

>Why are the dwarves having the tourney at all?
I don't have any idea what to say if they ask that. One of the players wants to save the dwarves by evacuating them before the island hits, but the others have no reason or risk of being there.

How do I make it fun for the players? Why should the tournament be there at all?

>>50099271
Something about one of their gods being the god of Strength and it's a tournament in his name? Maybe it's an ancient pact they made with some force on the island that keeps the island inhabitable?

Hell, I just liek the idea of an honorable tradition - a tournament that is going every few decades, for example. The winners can make suggestions to the council sure, but it is expected of them that the suggestions will be wise and in line with the culture. So if players make a silly suggestion, the council is free to dismiss it.

Or actually, if dwarves are honorable, they can agree to some sort of silly offer from the winners but only for a day. As a way to honour their idea. So that would make things intense as it puts them on a timer. and hey, maybe some dwarves will enjoy that one day and will seek out the pcs later

just my two cents on this whole thing

>>50099271
I'd just make the tournaments a historic way to enact new laws or are only held when something like a giant island or some other form of destruction is approaching.

>there is no plot
>there never has been
>players are going from event to event in a dead world
>never stay in one place for long, no place they belong
>making terrible decisions and making their lives worse and bringing down everyone they meet with them.

>>50090824
>muh destiny wepon to slay the bbeg

you deserve it for bringing that boring cliche bullshit to the table

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>>50099359
>Something about one of their gods being the god of Strength and it's a tournament in his name
They praise the mountain they live in, so it could be to "strenghten the faith"
>but it is expected of them that the suggestions will be wise and in line with the culture. So if players make a silly suggestion, the council is free to dismiss it.
Ah that's good, so it makes sense that getting to participate is a price in of itself, because they are outsiders.
>>50099374
>when something like a giant island or some other form of destruction is approaching.
This is supposed to be the first time The Floating Island makes contact with ground.

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>>50093852
>>50094229
>"wtf!? stop investigating the [plot-important-item]!"
>"go straight to where I told you to go!"

Fuck interacting with the world in a logical way amirite??
Wouldn't want to risk having an adventure beyond the railroad.

>>50099271
The tournament is there only form of democracy, allowing any dwarf no matter his caste to contribute to rule.
>Another way for the ruling class to make pissants think there important so they don't revolt

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>>50098350
>>50098509
>>50098429

>>50099601
Where did you get the impression that the knife was at all plot-relevant? Players will latch on to the dumbest shit.

>>50089154
Never happened to me, because I'm not an awful GM.

>>50100949
>because I'm not an awful GM.
Turns out, you're not even a GM at all.

>>50089912
Kek

>>50089154
Who?

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>>50098603

>>50103123
Probably didn't happen, but kek.

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>That moment when, as a GM, you realize your BBEG is taller than the Mariana Trench.

>>50089154
Get good?

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>>50103530
That sounds pretty cool actually

>>50089154
>That moment when, as a GM, you realise that your intentionally vague setting outline and plot gives you the freedom to do ~anything~

You can't paint yourself into a corner if you never put up any walls!

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>>50089154
>That moment when, as a GM, you planned to flesh out the setting and plan for what kind of plot everybody would be interested in by answering any questions they had about the setting.
>and they don't ask any questions.

>>50089432
>have the ship spontaneously disappear into the warp
>make the same group of players fight their old party in their next game

>>50103530
>The reason the BBEG doesn't make direct appearances is that he's too big to leave his domain without ruining it all
>He can touch opposite ends of his domain without fully extending his wings

>>50103123
>not letting the players have a rewarding climax to their admittedly fun campaign because of childish anti-sjw sentiment

>>50104813
>lich wanted to destroy everything because they killed his princely lover over a hundred years ago.
>seeing what the PCs accomplished has relit some light in him, but he still has hatred
>he teleports in and tells the PCs that he is impressed by their achievements, but they now must defeat him in combat to prove they can stand up to those who will try to destroy what they built or watch as he "paints this rotten world black!"
>but no, I need an epic greentext about how I fucked my players.

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>>50089154
>Being that player who rattles off a host of in-character theories for the discrepancies, hoping to give the GM some ideas.

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>>50089154
>that moment when a friend points out you accidentally just wrote The War of the Roses again

>>50099827
That series is decent and you should feel good.

>>50103898
This so much. Players not asking any questions at all makes me concerned.

>>50105544
>haven't actually watched/read game of thrones.
>planning a game about a dead ruler with no heir to be found.
>The nobles are all preparing for the first shot to be fired so they can claim the throne.

I really hope Game of Thrones isn't about what I think it's about.

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>>50089154
>when you try and correct them by saying "no, I was wrong about that"

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>>50089972
>That moment when you realize you character is way OP so you start getting distracted by other things just so you don't disrupt the games power balance and ruin the fun.

Playing a necromancer is suffering, the urge to maximized enervate every enemy is almost too great. That or putting major curses on shit to make sure it has only a 50% chance to do anything.

Alas the party matters more than me steam rolling everything, but fuck me it's hard not too sometimes.

>>50089635
Samesies

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>>50107408
>when you change the lore of your setting to incorporate that mistake or an off the wall request of a player.

>tfw your players accuse you of stealing things from obscure anime or books you've never heard of

>>50108209
>try running a modern game with 5e, make some custom classes
>People assume the class they chose apes the fantasy equivalent one for one
>Asks me when they're getting rage or unarmored bonus when I made their class as a heavily armored tank.
>One player keeps insisting that it's just like shadowrun
>Play fantasy game, cute girl points out the things I ripped from Dragon Age, such as a goddess named (An)Draste. calls large cities kirkwall
just
fuck me up famalam