I run a game that's getting to be a bit too many people.

>>50078321

What is it that he does that ties your nipples up into balloon animals?

>>50078321
What kind of personality is it, OP? Is it pic related?

>>50078349
>>50078389
It's just that type. He's a huge edgelord who interjects every so often with whiny, pessimistic anecdotes I just KNOW he thinks is profound wisdom. He puts on this presence of being depressed and anti-social because he thinks it makes him mysterious or some shit. He can't go five fucking minutes without taking some total pot shot at organised religion. He namedrops people from science and literature as if we're supposed to be impressed that he knows who Tesla and Lovecraft are. He plays his character like he thinks he's Batman or something. He at least knows better than to derail the plot but I have had to tell him once or twice that there are other players and his character is not the protagonist. He's way too old for all this shit, too.

>>50078413
Tell him to stop being a faggot then Kick him. There is negotiating with this shit.

>>50078413
Are the other players annoyed at him too?

>>50078445
Not that I know of. If they were this would be easier but nobody else seems bothered by him.

>>50078413
Name the most obscure person he's ever referenced. I'm genuinely interested.
>TFW I had a friend in high school who unironically told me to read the Fountainhead
I'm sure it has literary merit on some level, but I could not take that damn book seriously enough to read it after seeing the first few pages.

>>50078469
>Name the most obscure person he's ever referenced. I'm genuinely interested.
W.B. Yeats, probably. Like I said, his references don't go nearly as deep as he thinks they do. I think he just assumes everyone on the planet listens to Nicki Minaj and gossips about Channing Tatum or some shit.

>>50078468
Then either let him keep doing it as long as he doesn't derail the game, or kick him if it's too hard for you to handle him.

>>50078469

I just hit people who tell me to read rand. I don't even know why, it's just this reflex, like I'm doing my species a favor by inflicting harm on them. I know it's 'assault' but it feels like the right thing to do so why stop doing it? I mean it's not like its even voluntary. I hear the word 'atlas' and I usually have a fist going down their throat before they get out a 'shrugged'. Sometimes I don't even know it's happening til its over, like I'm entirely focused on my phone or a book I'm reading and ZIP, like a fucking lightning bolt, there's a five-finger postcard in their mailbox.

>>50078531
>Then either let him keep doing it as long as he doesn't derail the game
It's at the point now where I go into each session begging for him to derail it just so I have an excuse.

>>50078518
To be perfectly honest, the most 'classically academic' claim I can lay hold to is having read the Aeneid. I have a couple of decent splatterings, but I never found it useful to memorize the works of major authors so long as I had a personal grasp of how the world works.

>>50078628
There's nothing inherently wrong with quoting these authors. But you need to find the right context for it. Also it needs to come off like you're not just doing it so we can nod sagely at your intelligence.

>>50078552
Anon... you might be a paladin

>>50078649
Right.
I personally understand the knee-jerk reaction to raise an eyebrow at the direct quote of a major historical figure as a subconscious realization that the person's own understanding of the world is more likely than not limited to repeating what people have told them rather than internalizing it, truly understanding it, and communicating it in their own way.
Of course, this flag has failings, but that's to be expected.

>>50078751
Damn, and now I realized I screwed up the phrasing on that. 'the person' refers to the quoter, not the listener.

>>50078751
Yeah, don't give that guy any more credit that he deserves. He's not realising the world through other people, he's just parroting historical figures as a fashion statement.

>>50078552
>>50078661
>I don't know when I first learned Detect Evil
>It was just weird reflexes, I thought I was going insane
>Anytime someone started spouting anarchal or self-centered bullshit I was just driven to fury

PALADIN: THE REDEMPTION

>>50078552
You sound like a huge cuck

>>50078862
And here, gentlemen, we see someone who parrots memes as a fashion statement.
We must wonder if he is greater or less for having called upon the collective consciousness of 4chan rather than the words of a single man given importance by the course of history.

>>50078862

And you sound like a robot who is forwarding the agenda of white nationalist groups who literally give zero fucks about you and, should they ever get rid of 'undesirables', they would quickly turn inward (likely on you first, since anyone on /tg/ probably isn't contributing much to their aryan super society) and cannibalize one another to feed their addiction to having an enemy.

But hey top kek, cucks amirite lololol

>>50078552

I'm exactly like that, but with idiots who believe they are better than other people for not reading things they don't agree with.

>>50078992

But I did read it, anon. both AS and the fountainhead. That's when it started.

>>50078992
Not the guy you replied to, but I don't understand why I should feel obligated to read The Fountainhead in order to be entitled to disagree with Rand's Objectivism.
In that case, I couldn't be expected to make any opinion at all without a reading list, and while that might improve my reading skills, it would wreak havoc on my freedom of expression.
I know that Ayn Rand considered selfishness a virtue, and I disagree with that. There are better ways to pursue one's agenda than at the cost of everyone else's.

>>50079007

Well, if >>50078931 is you, then I'm pretty sure you didn't. But whatevs, right?

And before any mad antics, I'm very far from an objectivist. Just not an idiot too.

>>50079069

Everyone surely is entitled to their own opinion, but what you said there is a sign of your own misinformation and why we should be careful when discussing topics we don't understand. For what I've read, and I've stopped with Atlas Shrugged, the thing with Ayn Rand is that, sure, selfishness is the highest virtue: but she also kinda changes its meaning. It has little to do with doing things "at the expense" of others.

She actually believes that people who are the most selfish are the ones who demand things from others, even though they believe they are being just or kind. If those people are being "kind", then she doesn't want to have anything to do with them and will not be judged by their parameters.

I didn't want to play in a game but due to obligations to other people in the group I couldn't just quit. Because of this I made my PC a total edgelord unlikable faggot in hopes of being booted from the game. Maybe this is a similar situation?

>>50079091

Nope.

>>50079167

She also had orgies and funded weird paramilitary militia type guys. So I usually take anything she's written with a grain of salt. honestly, I do the same thing with a lot of ancient greek philosophers, too. You get that deep into an ideology, common sense morality starts to vanish.

>>50079205
Well there's no obligation on his end. So he can leave whenever he wants

>>50079167
Now, see, that seems more along the lines of semantics than ignorance on my part, though I'll use selfishness in the way you've defined it in future posts.
If I'm understanding the definition of 'selfishness' in the way you describe it, it represents self-direction without regards for the social constraints placed on behavior by others.
At the risk of playing armchair sociologist, heavily prioritizing 'negative face' (self-direction and expression) over 'positive face' (the approval and acceptance by others, usually by meeting their expectations of you) is considered selfish in most societies, because there are a lot of situations in which it discourages cooperation, a fundamental building block of functioning human society.
If you do whatever you want more than what people expect you too, there's no guarantee that the end goals everyone needs for a continuous, satisfied existence are met, and that makes people uncomfortable. It's seen as selfish because you're prioritizing your own (presumably limited) self-fulfillment over the needs of the group as a whole and putting all of the 'contributers' in danger of having their work go to waste or picking up the labor expected of you.
>>50079205
Please use your words to communicate with the other players and DM, rather than expecting them to pick up on your brainwaves.

>>50079228

I thought I made it clear when I said I'm not exactly whiteknighting her. I'm not.

Those are ad hominem attacks that do little to counter her arguments. And I'm not discussing her as a person. No one really stands up to their own ideologies, we should all know that. And I didn't even want to get into her ideology since I'm not a proponent of it. My point is that it seems pretty idiotic to me to dismiss things without understanding them reasonably, and even go so far as to cut off people from learning them or mentioning them.

But you do what you gotta do, prejudices and all. Our free time is limited and we should spend it the way we see fit without having to listen to people's opinions on how we spend it. Funnily enough, that's pretty randian.

>>50079287

It's not semantics, in my opinion. It's a case of a particular philosophical definition, and you'll probably not find such definition in the dictionary.

She also doesn't believe in "common goal", unless everyone involved in this "common goal" is dedicated to it freely. Your points are heavily influenced by positivism and utilitarism, and she really hate those. It's a matter of understanding why.

>>50079349

You know, that's an irony not lost on me. Honestly? The throat-fisting randroids line isn't meant to be taken literally. I just find the view of 'me before all others' as a virtue not only toxic to civilization, but exactly the mindset that's led to the greatest number of economic problems and wars (which often bring the former with them). I'm not entirely sure that I intended those attacks to be ad hominem, at least entirely. I genuinely think that the actions of the person who is penning the ideology, especially one that's touted as absolutely incorruptible, should really be examined.

Regardless, you took the time to respond to my throat-fisting rage with a decent amount of tact. Usually when I pick a fight it ends up being a fight, not an enlightening debate. It really proves /tg/ is the king of boards here.

File: 1314128005859.jpg (89KB, 400x287px) Image search: [Google]

89KB, 400x287px

>>50078552
>I hear the word 'atlas' and I usually have a fist going down their throat before they get out a 'shrugged'

Better not invite this guy to play Battletech.

>>50079418

...ya know, there's a reason my go-to 100-tonner is a Daishi.

>>50079228

she was raised on communism and ran away as a teenager to write "objectivism" which is the absolute far-extreme opposite of all the communist values she was raised on by loving parents.

you think any of it has any weight? that it isn't just a teenage girl's tantrum given it's own life? that she didn't live a life entirely riding her teenage tantrums to her grave the same way 70's punk frontmen such as Henry Rollins and Glenn Danzig do to this day?

>>50079431

I don't think it has weight, no. the problem is, there are a LOT of people, some of them in prominent roles in politics, who DO treat it as the have-all end-all of ideologies, and that she was a genius for penning it. THAT is what REALLY gets me about rand's works. How inconsequential they SHOULD be versus how very dangerous they ARE when taken to heart.

File: Are you trying to flirt.jpg (11KB, 203x174px) Image search: [Google]

11KB, 203x174px

If it's your house and you're the DM, you can kick him for whatever reason you want.

Just say "I don't personally feel you're fitting in with the game I want, and I have too many people, so could you please leave?" and then lock the door behind him.

Easy-Peezy.

>>50078552
You're good people anon. I'd play in your magical realm anytime.

>>50079459

I'm with this guy. Unless your friends are close friends with the guy and it would create awkwardness or tension, just say 'yeah we have too many people and you're getting the axe' and if he asks why, start with something polite and if he pushes, just straight up tell him he's an annoying tryhard.

>>50079007
You might have thumbed through the books pretending that they said what you wanted them to say, but you clearly didn't read them. I mean there's some things I agree with Rand on, but on the whole I don't hold her philosophy in very high esteem and I think that Rand as an individual was absolutely batshit crazy. However, it's also clear to anyone with the least bit of knowledge about her work that >>50078931 has absolutely nothing to do with it. Furthermore it should be obviously to anyone with the least bit of social skills that >>50078751 is the result of a depressingly insecure individual wanting to appear cool on an anonymous imageboard.

>>50079461

Aww, thank you.

You probably wouldn't be down. I know /tg/ has super mixed feelings about catgirls/furry girls.

>>50079416

Well, her characters are incorruptible, as is Rorschach. Herself? Just a real human.

Hey, I was genuinely irritated by that post but you're a pretty cool guy. Thanks for listening anyway!

>>50079490

You're right. Curses, you saw through my ploy to be cool on the internet. Clearly I didn't read any of it, especially not a forty-page monologue where Mr. Galt tells us exactly why his ideology is too pure to reason with. It's not like I just find the philosophy disgusting and I'm feeling extra edgy today. That would be impossible.

>>50079459
>>50079472
I wish I was better at confrontation.

So I should just get it over with, huh?

>>50079491
dats hawt

>>50079405
...I don't consider myself positivist, though I agree with utilitarianism INSOMUCH AS I believe that people have an obligation to contribute to societies they benefit from, if they are capable of doing so, and that this obligation keeps society functioning, which benefits everyone.
I've been told I'm a bleeding heart, though don't expect me to expound on my personal life philosophy at essay length on a British tap-dancing forum.

>>50079505

honestly, when it comes down to the incorruptible part it's not just the ideology that irks me. It's that it's bad writing. rorshach was great because he was incorruptible in a world that would never take heed to that kind of philosophy, whereas rand's protags usually end up revealing some 'super ultra amazing truth about what mankind needs to be' and everyone just thinks they're so fucking great for it. That's just lazy writing and further reinforces the point you made about it being more a means to rebel against her childhood under an oppressive communist regime than anything else.

File: Wizard Incoming.png (10KB, 101x101px) Image search: [Google]

10KB, 101x101px

>>50079515
Dude, the hard lesson of confrontation is that the longer you put it off, the WORSE its going to get.

It will always suck. There is never a confrontation that is going to not suck at the very least approaching, because inevitably, you are going to hurt someone's feelings.

But the longer you wait, the more people get attached, the more emotions get bottled up, the more in the long run its going to damage not just the speaker, but yourself.

Just man up and do it.

>>50079515

Yeah, just do it bro. If it's really dragging your sessions down to a point you feel it's threatening your ability to GM then it's a threat to the group's sessions. Especially if others in the group aren't crazy about him. sometimes having group members back you up can make you a lot more confident in a confrontation.

>>50079529

Now you're the one with good taste.

>>50079558
>Just man up and do it
In my head I just have this picture of it become a big scene, all the other players pushing me for a reasonable excuse that I can't give them.

>>50079580
>If it's really dragging your sessions down to a point you feel it's threatening your ability to GM
I don't know if it's doing that. When he shuts his mouth things move nice and smooth. But it's getting worse. It's become a self fulfilling prophecy. He just shows up in his fucking periodic table t-shirt and I think "Oh, this shit again"

>>50079600
You tell them the same thing you said to him.

"I think there were too many people than I can handle, and overall, I personally don't feel his playstyle meshes with mine too well, and that's all I really want to say about it, so lets take a 5 minute break to clear the air, and then get back into it and move on."

>>50079490
I'm >>50078751, and I simply expressed why I thought people have a knee-jerk reaction to quotes.
It's a simple enough answer, it makes sense given previous experiences (I know I've used quotes to make my opinions appear more reasoned-through than they are), and I'm not willing to sit down and do extended experimentation to prove it for your sake or mine- it's a personal opinion I expressed because the opportunity arose.
Also, I'm probably not the best source for high-quality analysis on human thought and behavior. Who'd thunk it?

>>50079600

you know, perhaps telling you to rush into things is too rash. Maybe, instead, you should just kill his character. Make it seem as if its a normal, unscripted death as best you can, throw a crit into a combat he doesn't see coming. If his character dies and he tantrums, bam, more ammo for the fire. If not, maybe he'll roll up something decent and actually get to working with your group. If you wanna be a sneaky git, that'd be the way to do it. Otherwise, just tell your friends you can't stand the guy, and boot him. If they go with, well, I mean, the confrontation was happening anyway.

>>50079551

I'm not that dude that said things about her childhood, but anyways, Atlas Shrugged shouldn't be taken seriously as literature. And I don't think it is. It is a vehicle for her philosophy, written as a "story" for the purposes of didacticism.

And if you think her protags had an easy ride, then you should read the books. That's absolutely not what happens. Or don't, whatever.

>>50079622
I'll probably just do this, I think. >>50079635 is a little bit sneaky for me to pull off convincingly.

I'll let you all know how it goes, I guess. Thanks, guys.

>>50079644

Hi, not who you're replying to, but I gotta say there are a lot of people who DO take atlas shrugged as serious literature. Some are in politics, as has been mentioned by someone above me but I'm too lazy to find the post.

Let's agree that people who use rand novels as a basis for political platforms are crazy.

>>50079512
>especially not a forty-page monologue
That monologue is probably the single most famous thing about the book. Everyone knows about it because people love to make fun of how overly long it is. Having knowledge of its existence is certainly not proof of having read the book.

>where Mr. Galt tells us exactly why his ideology is too pure to reason with
That's also not what the speech is about.

>>50079644

I didn't mean they had an easy ride, but that they're usually always WAY BETTER THAN THE AVERAGE MAN and everyone tends to take their points and views as absolute truths. I find that lazy.

>>50079545

But what if you don't want to benefit from it? That's her point. It's not really a choice.

Funny thing is that all those points about people not pulling their weight for selfishness... She hates that too. She really hates that, in fact, and believes socialism is the perfect mean to make that behavior flourish in people.

>>50079684

That's not really what happens, though. They are better (under her parameters of better), but people dismiss them all the time. That's kinda the point of the book.

>>50079700

Maybe my interpretation is way off, who knows.

>>50079673

It's one of the most ironic things on earth. She hated politicians and cronyism, after all.

How come all my threads turn into discussions about objectivism.

Is it because I hit that gypsy with my car?

File: OhGodMySideslol.jpg (31KB, 260x506px) Image search: [Google]

31KB, 260x506px

>>50079755

>>50078552
Congrats, you're a meta-Randian. Acting to Rand-fans as Rand would act.

>>50079069
>In that case, I couldn't be expected to make any opinion at all without a reading list, and while that might improve my reading skills, it would wreak havoc on my freedom of expression.

You've just got to accept that some opinions are more well considered than others; you can have an opinion on something you've only got a passing interest in, but I'd probably take the opinion on somebody well-versed in that thing a little more seriously.

I'm pretty certain that I could press a retard into giving me an opinion on what my recurring headaches mean, but I'd rather go and seek the informed opinion of a professional and act on that.

>>50078321
Almost a decade of gaming and I'm now about to kick out my first player. It helps that the other players are driven just as mad by him as I am. I've given him 5 sit downs after sessions where I've voiced complaints and it's had little to no effect. I've given him more than enough room for change but I still feel like a cunt for blatantly telling someone they're out.

File: tmp_2924-1405312345183-1923070272.jpg (134KB, 640x448px) Image search: [Google]

134KB, 640x448px

>>50078321
>personal

>>50078552
Philosophy MA here. I don't see anything wrong with this post.

>>50082222

Argument from authority backfired since Philosophy MAs are probably the least qualified people on the planet to discuss philosophy or anything at all. Pretty qualified to flip some mean burgers, though.

Just kidding, man, you're alright!

>>50078321
>silently walk up behind him
>put a piece of paper with "You're kicked from my group" written on it
>whisper "Nothing personal, kid." in his ear

>>50082459
>put the piece of paper before his eyes

dumb didn't finish the sentence...

>>50078815
I'd play it

also
>PALADIN: THE REDEMPTIONING
fix'd that for you

>>50079069
>Not the guy you replied to, but I don't understand why I should feel obligated to read The Fountainhead in order to be entitled to disagree with Rand's Objectivism.
You shouldn't as long as you understand that your opinion is objectively less valuable than that of someone well acquainted with the subject matter.

>>50078321
>>50079491
>has a setting with furries and catgirls
>bothered because the other guy is cringy
wot

>>50078413
tell him that you don't care about his crap and no one want to convert him