The Emperor was created when a bunch of psykers fused, why doesn't

>>50071999
Souls can't work like that anymore cause Daemons are a lot more ravenous then they were when the Shamans did it.

>>50071999
Chaos already has what they want. The galaxy is at constant war and strife with no end in sight. They won ten thousand years ago.

Now all they have to do is keep stringing Abaddon and his merry band of fuckwits along to keep the pace going without ever reaching a real conclusion.

>>50071999
The shamans that became the Emperor weren't regular psykers, for one. They were immortal (of the "can be killed, but will just reincarnate" variety) and each stupidly powerful in their own right, so Chaos can't just sacrifice a bunch of normal psykers and expect Nega-Emperor to be born. Also, souls are a yummy treat for daemons.

>>50072172
This. The only psykers left in the galaxy capable of doing it is probably the Eldar, and they're already making their own. Or were, no one's made it clear if Eldrad's permanently fucked it.

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>>50071999
they kinda did

Emp is supposedly older than the 4 Chaos Gods, with Chaos gods Khorne, Nurgle and Tzeentch only coming to exist as entities thousands of years after his birth.

Ever since then, competition has increased in the Warp. Slaanesh really flipped every board and table, massacring who knows how many Eldar gods, and maybe some other gods in the process.

The big four are also are quite protective, they do not really like sharing too much. Upsetting the balance between the four is not going to happen.

>>50071999
>why doesn't chaos do the same thing and create a Anti-Emperor?

Because the gods cant work together unless they feel threatened and chaos, by its very nature, is self destructive.

>>50071999
What do you think Chaos Gods are?

>>50071999
Ok you try gathering 1000 chaos psykers in one location and have them not murder each other until you get the rune and sigil etchings just right

>>50071999
There's probably a lot of convenient reasons for why they don't just do that, but the real reason is such a plan would require
A) Teamwork and Cooperation
B) Careful Planning and research
And C) Patience to make a series of actions that Doesn't result in immediate gratification.
All of these are things which the Chaotic-Fucktarded aligned Chaos gods lack (Well, Except for Tzeench, he's got B) and C), but he's a nerd anyways and nobody likes him).

It's kind of a running theme that Chaos could do lots of stuff that would result in an easy win, but their too stupid and lazy to do it.

>>50071999
The Emperor is single handily holding the chaos gods at bay and in Collected Visions, fought against their combined power and survived.

Do you really think the chaos gods, the guys who will only resort to teamwork if they find themselves threatened in some way, would really want another guy like that running around, let alone actively try to make one?

>>50072204
Wasn't Nurgle born during the Black Plague?

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>>50072399
definitely after Emps "birth", but dunno, fluff can vary. Sometimes they are supposed to be ancient primordial gods, often we discover they are barely 45-40k old?
They didn't manage to feast on other races, but somehow human race contribute the most to the big 3 and their coming of age.
Then again, they could be older, and maybe Black Death was only the first time Nurgle came in contact with humans, but had in fact existed since the dawn of warp?

Trying to make sense about warp stuff and history of the greater beings of warp just makes my head hurt.
Maybe that's why Lorgar is not doing anything lately, his head hurts from trying to make sense out of something that makes no sense.

>>50072487
Wasn't there something written about them always being there because time means jack in the warp?

>>50072014
Possessed Marines keep their souls.

>>50072399
He was the first chaos god, but wasn't really sapient/sentient before the plague.

>>50072487

Thanks to time fuckery, yes. The warp is fucked up and doesn't follow time. So in our realm, Nurgle didn't pop up until the Plague, but in the warp, Nurgle always existed and exerted force on our dimension.

It just works.

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>>50072519
warp is just a boiling mass of unreal emotions that exist outside of known physical reality, a constant turmoil of insanity where time might or might not exist as we know it

The early 3 may have been existing before Emprah was created, or they may have been creations of latter days when mankind was already turning to cities and organized religions, brutal wars, filth and diseases.

"Primordial"; maybe Chaos had barely any role in the state of warp before the 3 gods got a chance to feed on mankind. Eldars were too advanced and powerful to be used for their own ends, whereas Big E probably had not realized the dangers that warp might present to mankind.

Shouldn't an elder being like the Emprah have it easy when facing newer creations like the Chaos gods? Or has Emperor clinging to physical reality hindered his career advance, and by refusing to become a Warp God he has given too much leeway to the other fuckers?

>>50072393
I like how a thousand fused psykers is more powerful than four gods empowered by an entire galaxy.

>>50072686
They weren't just psykers, there were perpetuals.

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>>50072608
oh yeah, by creating an unreal world of immaterium and madness where nothing makes sense, the nonsense of Chaos and fucked up timelines start making sense.

goddammit
it's so fucking stupid that GW might just a Greenskin horder in disguise

>>50072014
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DeNBJ5o-b7s
>there is hope but it will be hard, it will be so very hard

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>>50072204
>Emp is supposedly older than the 4 Chaos Gods,


>We have lore about the Old Ones creating massive planet prisons to contain billions of daemonic entities before the War of Heaven
>Wehave Be'lakor who is the First Daemon ever created by Chaos Gods. He is millions of years old and memories of the first Necrontyr Necropolis and the Eldar homeworlds

Stop this meme. The Emperor's live is but a speck to any Chaos entity, let alone the Chaos Gods.

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>>50072686
well, Big E supposedly was born in Anatolia 10000BC, meaning early 3 other Chaos Gods came to "exist" only later
thanks to no Slaanesh fuckery, the warp might have been more stable and calm back then, especially of the early 3 were just beginning to form.
Powerful Eldar gods and their race holding dominion over most the galaxy back then might have kept early forms of Chaos in check.

also, considering how many trillions upon trillions of men hold faith in the Emperor, he is far powerful thanks to all those lesser warp presences buffing his gigantic warp presence

The 4 tread carefully around the Big E for a reason, then again their actual plan may just involve leaving the Empire quite stable, so they can keep milking it for shits and giggles. (why shoot a milkcow?)

>>50072686
>a thousand
It never specified a number, but it was thousands, plural. And each was stated to be a powerful psyker in their own right. Given that this was a time when the warp was far more benign, it's more than possible they were alphas or higher.

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>>50072790
>(why shoot a milkcow?)
To stop humanity from becoming the psychic master race and ensure chaos for all time (or lack thereof)

>>50072790
You

see

>>50072783

Again with this meme.

Be'lakor forged space empires and Chaos xenos were a thing back then. There is no early forms. Chaos was always here even back then at the time of the Old Ones.

>Carnac shows up
>Thread dies
Should happen more often really.

>>50072854

Be'lakor is too busy with his band to actually do anything though

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>>50072783
>>50072854

https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Nurgle

>He was the first Chaos God to begin to form in Warhammer 40k, somewhere in the post-Roman era (probably during the Justinian Plague, [1] in the 5-600s). Khorne was the first to gain sapience though, during the orgy of violence that were the Mongol invasions. Nurgle quickly followed suit and became fully conscious during the Black Death.


I know the fluff can be retarded, but I honestly don't know what to believe. It makes sense to believe that Primordial Truth is truly primordial, but then some other source claims that the 3 are kinda newish?

Have there existed different Chaos gods during ancient times, during War in Heaven? They come and go? Different entities rise to the top, only to eventually get toppled down? As the fight over dominance in warp rages on?

>>50072783
>>50072854
It's not a meme. That anon's right: in a chronology, the Emperor is older than the Dark Gods.

Thing is, unlike him they're pure Chaos, so once they're born they can fuck off into the past and do stuff like >>50072783

Emps is older, but he's weaker and can't time-travel.

>>50072972
>1d4chan
>source

Cancer.
Get out.

To answer your questions. Be'lakor is the child of the Four Chaos Gods. The first daemon ever created and the first mortal raised to immortal daemonhood by the gods. He is the First Prince and First Child of Chaos. He predates the Fall and pretty much every major event in the setting He saw the Necrontyr and Eldar rise.

How could this be? Because the Chaos Gods always existed in the Warp. Mortal Be'lakor is most likely was a primordial creature contacted all Four of them and pleased them all to earn his reward.

>>50072197
>Or were, no one's made it clear if Eldrad's permanently fucked it.
Oh come now, that hanger wasn't nearly big enough

>>50072197
Acording to the Deathwatch codex, "something" came out of the ritual and went into hiding in the Webway after Artemis fucked everything up. Also Eldrad survived and escaped with a smile in his face.

>>50073173
You mean Death Masque.

And it didn't go into the Webway. It disapeared into SPESS.

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>>50071999
Short answer tzeench
long answer they do, in the old fluff they are just not as strong

Honestly 40k would be a much better setting without the God-Emperor, C'tan and Chaos Gods.

They just complicate the setting without adding anything. The War in Heaven happened because supertech not star vampire gods, the Fall of the Eldar happened because they opened a portal to a hostile dimension in the middle of their empire not because they got their souls eaten by gay satan, the Great Crusade was planned and executed by normal humans with the Emperor just being a mythic figurehead along the lines of Emperor of Japan. Doesn't that make more sense?

>>50073081
>he's weaker
Is that why they had to subtly undermine him while he was free to fuck around the warp as he pleased, and why a dying Emps nearly obliterated all four gods when they merged with Horus with a single attack?

>>50073452
No, it's shit, and thank the Emperor you don't have any say in these things.

>>50073452
Doesn't make a lick of difference to me other than simplifying things

>>50073452
I'll take purely for the fact that if this was true, Chaos wouldn't be a faction anymore.

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>>50071999
Because the forces of Chaos are filled with and commanded by a
bunch of incompetent/braindead/insane turncoats

>>50073459
>Is that why they had to subtly undermine him while he was free to fuck around the warp as he pleased
You mean fuck around in the material universe? If not, I don't know what lore you're referencing.

>and why a dying Emps nearly obliterated all four gods when they merged with Horus with a single attack?
Again, what? The version I've always heard was that the four ultra-buffed Horus, but were never in any danger themselves.

Where are you getting this?

>>50073664
It says their combined might was in Horus when the Emperor attacked, and that they disengaged from Horus as the attack hit.
But it doesn't say that they were going to be "obliterated". Just that they retreated.

>>50073644
i can't believe ive never seen this meme

>>50073173
>Eldrad survived and escaped with a smile in his face.

Survived yes, smiled no.

>>50073664
>>50073677
>You mean fuck around in the material universe?
No, i mean openly mess around in the warp both using his powers and creating a webway while the big mean chaos gods didn't even think about making a move directly.
And yes, they straight up scurried like rats when Big E's attack hit.

>>50072399
>human-centric timeline again
>a planet of 500 millions people matters
Yeah, I'm sure the black plague was the biggest epidemic ever in the entire galaxy. Good thing the birth of slaneesh was already written in the fluff, otherwise they would have linked it with the hippie movement.
Fucking GW, not even once.

>>50073081
>fuck off into the past
I don't think the designers have really thought about the ramifications of omniscient daemons/emotional aggregates going back in time. I think it's completely retarded, complicates matters needlessly, and serves no purpose.

>>50073826
>Where are you getting this?

>>50074000
>I don't think the designers have really thought about the ramifications of omniscient daemons/emotional aggregates going back in time. I think it's completely retarded, complicates matters needlessly, and serves no purpose.
I agree. The only (flimsy) excuse I can think of for the Dark Gods not going back and assraping the galaxy right after the Big Bang is that they might cease to be if they negate the even that created them. But even so, they should be handily winning the war if they can Edge of Tomorrow their way through every conflict after the Fall.

>>50074082
>But even so, they should be handily winning the war if they can Edge of Tomorrow their way through every conflict after the Fall.

It's just a game to them. They decide how it ends.

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>>50074403
>the Chaos Gods represent different kinds of players of 40k

>>50074614
Well, thats not exactly new, GW did have an artwork for the new warhammer quest game that had 4 greater demons of tzeentch to represent the players.

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>>50074614
>that one fag who rushes headlong into combat
>that one fag who has a ridiculously complex list of units and win condition and doesn't even care if he wins so long as he can play it
>that one fag who loves any kind of tarpit and/or attrition strategy that makes games last forever
>that one fag who spends more time painting and modeling his minis JUST RIGHT than he actually does playing with them

My god, it lines up perfectly.

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>>50074614
>Khorne are the people who just play for violence and to enjoy the game
>Nurgle are the players who don't want the fluff to change, bitch about shit like newcrons
>Tzeentch on the other hand are the faggots who want the 40k version of end itmes
>Slaanesh are the hobbyists who go into extreme perfection of their craft

really makes you think

>>50074711
what about the dude who is looking for an excuse to get drunk and try to do maths

>>50074721
Nurgle, as always, best god.

>>50074743
Do Dwarves have a chaos god?

>>50074751
More like whiniest and bitchiest god.

Khorne is the best god in this example because games should be enjoyed.

>>50074765
>>50074751
>implying best god isn't the god emperor
go home heretics

>>50074743
Malal because he fucks with the other's ability to enjoy their shit and because that dude is so few and far between that you're not entirely sure he exists.

>>50074764
>ferrus manus?

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>>50074847
he plays flyrant spam and non ironically loves it
he also loves anything twin linked so he can roll more dice
he also smells very much of weed and smug

>>50073104
But this makes no sense.
If that is true, either Bel'akor has false memories or he was created only by three of them.
Slaanesh went to "life" with the fall of the Eldar and that is roughly 10.000 years before the time humanity reaches the stars

>>50074000
Except humanocentrism could actually make perfect sense here.

I mean, think about it. Warp entities are born from the congealed souls and emotions of sentient mortals, and they continue to have a particular affinity for the kinds of souls and emotions that they were made of.

Then there's the fact that very few species in 40K have managed to spread across the galaxy. Note how most xenos species in 40K are actually minor species that are only found in a few little corners of the galaxy. The only real exceptions to this are the Greenskins, the Eldar and the Necrons. Old Ones don't count here because they were long extinct by the time humanity came around anyway.

And then there's the fact that neither the Greenskins nor the pre-Fall Eldar nor the Necrons were sensitive to Chaos. See where I'm going here?

Humanity was an anomaly because it managed to spread and multiply so much more than almost any other race out there - and this gave the humanity-borne warp entities a huge boost, allowing them to overshadow just about all the xenos-norne warp entities out there.

I know that 40K fluff is a mess on this one, but the notion of humanocentric Chaos gods really does work.

>>50071999
Because it's Chaos. How the fuck are they going to organize that? And why would they? Shit would get boring fast.

>>50074711
>>50074721
>Slaanesh is the guy putting boobs on wraithknights and obsessing over waifus.
FTFY

>>50071999
Well, they don't really want to be minor parts of something greater, they want power for themselves.

>>50071999
Why don't humans just create a new Emperor?

What's a few thousand psykers in a population of millions of billions?

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>>50075489
>Create a new emperor
What? Is the one golden glory not good enough for you, you fuckin heretical ingrate.

>>50075489
Because that would be fucking heresy you fucking heretic.

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>>50074000
I actually ran a huge Deathwatch campaign two years ago that ended up delving into time travel halfway through, and the fluff on the Chaos Gods guided me on how to do it. Basically, in my game there were two separate methods of time travel-Necron time travel, and warp travel. Necron time travel works via multiverse theory-every single time you go back you effectively enter another timeline, and thus when you "change events" you merely enter another universe. These alternate timelines eventually collaspe, Donnie Darko style, because they're essentially simulacrums that exist in the Webway and are sustained by crazy necron tech. Warp time travel is the real deal-the Warp is the final arbiter of the "main" 40k timeline. Once a change is made via the Warp, it retcons the universe-whatever they changed in the past has always and will always have happened. If time travellers cause a series of contradictory events to happen, the entire area gets swallowed up by a warp storm and all of those events happen simultaneously-basically the Warp in the West happens anytime there's too much time travel bullshit. This occurs because Realspace is a reflection of the Warp, but because it works on a principle of logic and causality it needs time to move linearly. Realspace will thus be bent when time travel occurs in order to maintain casaulity while ALSO reflecting timeline changes that were brought about via the Warp. Got it? Good.

>>50075758
Now when this really gets interesting is when you bring in the fact that a new Chaos God, Slaanesh, was created by an event in realspace altering the Warp. When this happens via a time traveller changing events in Realspace having arrived via the Warp(rather than the Necron's weird webway time travel thing), the warp in the west deal happens on a small scale. But Slaanesh's birth was an event that altered all of galactic, if not UNIVERSAL, history. That's why the entire galaxy got swallowed up by Warp Storms after Slaanesh's birth, her very existence retroactively altered so much history that large swathes of the galaxy had to be completely rearranged in order for casualty to remain intact in realspace. But there was one place where casulity simply couldn't exist-the former Eldar empire. Because the Eldar created Slaanesh, who consumes their souls and corrupts them by her very nature, the Eldar empire never could have been built because the species would have been consumed by Slaanesh long ago-this is because Slaanesh has always existed and will always exist. But Slaanesh was only birthed because the Eldar empire in realspace grew so large and decadent that they created her in a massive psychic cataclysm. But that empire could have never been created because the old Eldar's souls before wraithstones were doomed to be corrupted and consumed! This un-resolvable stable timeloop caused a complete causality breakdown, and the result was the Warp totally overtaking realspace in that area, resulting in the Eye of Terror.

>>50074945
It is said that once a Chaos god is born, the Warp assumes that it always existed.
Then again...
>It's the Warp, shit don't make sense.
>Believing daemons lies.

>>50075817
This kind of reality altering retcon bullshit is exactly why no one should attempt to create a new Emperor either, and why the Starchild might actually be a bad end for the galaxy. The creation of a new supremely powerful warp entity, complete with its own motivations, goals, and army of daemons, now exists throughout all space and time, and will begin to exert its will wherever it can. The sheer stress this puts on causality in realspace is huge, and each time a Chaos God was "born" it put huge stress on realspace as daemon invasions which hadn't occured until the Chaos God suddenly existed forever wiped out entire civilizations. It causes major problems even on a small scale-such as Be'lakor forging empires in the names of four Chaos Gods "before" Chaos Gods existed. Anyone who tries to wrap their heads around this can't, because they think time has to move in a straight line. In reality realspace is just the shallow surface on top of true reality-the Warp. Just as deep ocean currents can suddenly cause ripples on a smooth surface, events in the Warp can profoundly alter realspace with no apparent cause or effect. Realspace has done a pretty good job of keeping casaulity intact with the birth of each Chaos God, but Slaanesh nearly destroyed it for good. The birth of another entity as powerful as that could very well cut the string on reality, and bring the deep water of the Warp up to the surface. And that's the bad end forseen by the Eldar-no time, no space, only chaos.

Tl;dr: Don't create a new Emperor because it might retcon reality so hard that reality just gives up.

>>50075489
Didn't you read? It was started in this very thread. The Emperor was made in a different time. In 40k, the psykers would just get immediately devoured as they died.

The most retarded things about the Chaos Gods is how they were apparently spawned because of events in human history. Despite being entities that influence and are influenced by the entire Galaxy

Another stellar example of 40K's "quality" lore.

>>50073617
Chaos would still be a faction they'd just be called the Enslavers.

>>50076496
Another stellar example of someone not reading the codex. Nice memepost.

>>50075004
No, it doesn't because the Eldar were doing all that shit well beforehand and only created a Chaos God when they reached the heights of depravity. But humanity manages to shit out Nurgle from one Plague? Without all dying in the process?

It's really fucking retarded.

>>50076573
I'll bite, what are the origins of the Chaos Gods and who is wrong in this thread?

>>50074403
A Tyranid Hive Fleet that developed the ability of the aliens in Edge of Tomorrow would be pretty cool, just imagine Imperials using every trick in the book trying to stop them and being countered at every turn. Until a random guardsman just happens to absorb some special Tyranid blood before he dies and a million deaths later becomes the Hero of the Imperium who defeated Hive Fleet Bullshit.

>>50076496
>I hate 40k
>But somehow I know enough about it to cite semi-obscure lore to explain why it's stupid
Where do you people come from? Do you deliberately research settings you don't like, or did you see the roided out men in huge pauldrons fighting with chainsaw swords and not immediately realize it wouldn't be grounded enough for your your taste?

>>50075946
That actually sounds reasonable.

The origins of the chaos gods is so fucking conflicting when they could be explained by how societies have advanced.
Nurgle is the oldest and related to the fear of death and wasting disease, something even the earliest sentient creatures in the universe would experience.
Khorne is next and tied to bloodshed and murder, something again that primitive societies know, but going to war requires a more organization, such as a tribal structure.
Then we have Tzeentch, with all the politicking and deception. This is something more common in a yet more advanced society, where power and influence is not governed solely by might alone.
Finally we have Slaanesh, a result of a highly advanced and truly decadent society, when the excesses that created it were possible.

This ties it all up pretty easily and explains why Nurgle is the oldest, as fear and the struggle against the inevitability if decay is something extremely primal, why Nurgle, Khorne, and Tzeentch could have existed long before mankind, and why Slaanesh is the youngest, because it took the extremely advanced Eldar society as its very height to reach such a level of decadence for it to come into being.

Why does GW have to make it so complicated?

>>50072954
>Be'lakor
>his band
Should be "Bel accord" then.

>>50075489
Can't. No shamans around anymore, since the Warp is too hostile for anybody to reincarnate.
What made the shamans so powerful was the fact that they'd figured out how to exist as souls after death and be reborn like the Old Ones would, allowing them to accumulate dozens of lifetimes worth of knowledge and experience. Each of them was easily worth a hundred Alpha psykers.

>>50071999
>The Emperor was created when a bunch of nigh godlike psykers fused
FTFY

>>50075946
So what you're saying is that the Warp has Gee Dubs-tier retcon powers?

>>50074945
Once they're born, they seem able to bend time in the Material to a certain extent, within limits.

Alternately, daemons and Be'lakor just talk shit, which I find just as compelling an argument.

>>50076805
I like 40K, I just think a lot of the lore is retarded.

>>50076654
If the Eldar are less vulnerable to the Warp turmoil (possible), then it might make sense, actually, like what was mentioned about humanocentric Chaos Gods. If a human causes more turmoil as humanity grows and spreads than an Eldar would, it makes sense that humans could create a Chaos God with much less than it took the Eldar.

>>50077316
Why didn't the godlike psykers use their godlike powers to uplift humanity and take over the galaxy then rule it between themselves so that the chaos gods would never gain godlike power? how does creating a worthless god-emperor who keeps humanity in the dark ages for tens of thousands of years help anyone?

>>50077538
They were no longer reincarnating, because the Warp was getting worse. So they did a Hail Mary and Voltron'd up into somebody who COULD handle the Warp before they were all individually picked off.

>>50077654
If they were so godlike what could pick them off? daemons lol?

>>50077787

The Warp itself.

>>50077806
>>50077787
>>50077654
>>50077538
Cant you just see that in the BL world we live in today that the old fluff just doesn't work anymore. With the changes to chaos such as Bel'akor chaos undivided and the fact that the Gods dont need human emotions to survive any longer the creation of the Emperor in the old way just doesnt make any sense.

Thats why BL put out their skubtastic changes on Moleoch and tried to imply the Emps stole his power. When BL finally finishes the HH series shit will be so different from the old fluff as to not even cross over.

>>50077787
Basically. They weren't no Old Ones, mind you. The Warp kept getting messier and rebirth kept getting harder, so they basically figured "well fuck, let's do this shit on our terms and never die again."

Did not exactly nail the execution on that last one.

>>50077787
The Warp.

Think of it as the difference between paddling in a swimming pool, and being dropped into a raging river that ends in a waterfall.

>>50077878
Well, they aren't dead yet. Emps is still breathing. Hurting, but breathing. There's the theory that he might be able to resurrect at full power if he was off the throne for just long enough to die, Warp-up, and resurrect, but if he does that then everything else goes to shit, there isn't a Malcador to an hero on the throne while he does.

>>50072487
Remember that one Daemon of Slaanesh which is older than Slaanesh?

>>50077876
>When BL finally finishes the HH series shit will be so different from the old fluff as to not even cross over.
Too bad BL changes have always, without exception, been for the worst.

>>50077876
>With the changes to chaos such as Bel'akor chaos undivided and the fact that the Gods dont need human emotions to survive any longer
All of which are monumentally retarded.

>>50078256
But seriously why is half a billion humans more important to the Chaos Gods than trillions of xenos?

>>50078380
Humans are more nutritious.

Except Eldar in the case of Slaanesh, anyway.

Isn't one of the reasons Chaos is less interested in Tau because they have a tiny Warp presence?

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>>50071999
Because Chaos does not work like that? They'd just fragment into lesser versions of chaos gods or basically deamon princes.

That or the being would be so psychotic and "lol random XD" it'd be ineffective and many less chaotic dumb alignment chaos cults would turn on it.

>>50071999

Too busy chopping and shitting on each other.

>>50072366
>Patience to make a series of actions that Doesn't result in immediate gratification.
>All of these are things which the Chaotic-Fucktarded aligned Chaos gods lack (Well, Except for Tzeench
Nurgle also plays the long game. Khorne and Slaanesh play the short game, but Tzeench and Nurgle are both opposing "inevitably going to win in the end" ideals (nurgle is literally the manifestation of inevitability and entropy, while Tzeench is the perfect planer with impossibly long plans, logically they are both GOING to win "in the end" but only one can) that's a big reason why the rivalries are aligned the way they are.

>>50076531
eugh kill yourself. Enslavers are already a type of warp entity anyway.

>>50072781
... My glorious Nigga...
My feels can't take this, you gotta spoiler something of such beauty.

>>50076674
As far as I know Nurgle came to be via the black death and how many people it killed. Khorne came to be via Genghis Khans blood soaked journey of conquest (and apparently one of the most powerful Bloodthirsters may be Genghis) Slaanesh came to be because the Eldar did whatever the fuck it was that they did. Not sure about Tzeencth.
>>50076654
The black death killed an estimated 75 to 200 million people. It probably gave him a hell of a boost even if it didn't create him.

>>50072487
Meh. Chaos Gods occupy proto-time. That is, they existed before emps and were born after as well.

They were/are the grand adversary of creation while simultaneously being of creation itself. They are aspects of the universe that have always existed, and will always exist but perhaps not in their current form, but maybe in their current form.

You can have as many correct answers to this as you have interpretations. Their whole shtick is to be slippery concepts given life. The warp is basically metaphor given intent. Trying to give them a stardate of creation is... Fruitless.

>>50077334
Exactly.

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>>50075004
>greenskins not sensitive to chaos.

>>50074945
>If that is true, either Bel'akor has false memories

No, he was created by all four as said in the fluff. All of them are his parents.

Daemons were confirmed to have been an active menace before the War in Heaven. Be'lakor is the First Daemon.

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>>50075856
>>50077374
>The First Captain, initially angry at the Magos’ imperious summons, had become serious and engaged as Ivasnophon revealed the nature of the technology that he sought upon Amethal. It was an ancient prize, something made by those who ruled the galaxy long before the first Terran life forms emerged from the primordial ooze. Other examples of its sort had been found across the galaxy from time to time, hints at an incredibly potent weapon against the powers of Chaos. Ivasnophon specialised in the location, excavation and imitation of such archeotechnological treasures. For centuries he had been following a tenuous trail of clues towards this, his greatest find. Amethal was not a planet, he explained, but rather a skin of rock and biosphere stretched as camouflage over an ancient cage. Vast beyond belief, wreathed in arcane wards and dark technologies, it was a prison-eternal for daemonic entities. It was the Magos Dominus’ belief that the Amethal Cage contained hellish beings beyond count, trapped for millennia behind warded bars. Why the ancients had sought to isolate these creatures from the Warp was a mystery lost to the mists of time, but the Magos was certain they had succeeded. Captain Karlaen was horrified at this revelation, for if that were true, then the empyric inmates of this world represented a dreadful danger to the defences around the Cadian Gate. At the same time, he was not slow to grasp Ivasnophon’s purpose on this world. Building upon his countless decades of study and experimentation, the Magos Dominus was at last nearly able to replicate the technologies of the Daemon cage. He was weeks, months at most, from creating – and then mass producing-devices that could cage Daemons on a vast scale. Though not a permanent solution to the daemonic threat, such devices might end daemonic incursions as soon as they began, and thus turn the tide in the war for the Cadian Gate.

-"Traitors Hate" & "Angel's Blade"

>>50081359
Continued....

>Got fluff of daemons being created and operating millions of years ago, even long before the War in Heaven
>Anons still spout the meme that the Emperor is somehow older than daemons and their gods

Imperialfags just don't give a fuck

>>50081364
>even long before the War in Heaven
You are gonna have to source that one, anon, because the aftermath of the War in Heaven was the Warp beginning it's turn into the piss soup it is.
Even then, lore has always stated that the big 4 came into being during humanity's time on Earth.

>>50075946
Have a (You).

I like this theory of yours, it fills a lot of holes in a fluff without sounding too retarded.

>>50081364
To add more to the fire.


>‘Listen to our pleas. Do not let the orks distract you, nor any other threat arising from the temporal realm. The gods of the Othersea will not stop until this galaxy is their plaything. The threat they pose is millions of cycles old, the actions of your Warmaster but the latest act in a war that has raged since the time of the old races. For the lifespan of stars my people have opposed them. You are naive if you think Chaos defeated. I have been sent with this one message – do not neglect the Dark Gods, for it will mean the annihilation of us all.’

>‘Do you suggest that only mankind might save the galaxy?’ said Veritus wonderingly.

>Lhaerial shifted her gaze to Veritus, and her hard eyes made him flinch as if she saw something in his mind and reflected it back upon him. ‘The idea appeals to your vanity? You were correct in what you were saying, through there. You are a tool to us. Our people ruled the stars when this world was ruled by reptiles. Many came against us – the soulless ones, the krork at the apex of their might, in comparison to which this latest folly is laughable, the cythor and a thousand other races so terrible your intellects could not contemplate them. Even your own ancestors and their unliving legions at the so-called height of their mastery. We defeated them all.

>‘To you we seem a sorry remnant, a ragged glory fading into the void, but we are not yet extinct, inquisitor. What is a few thousand cycles of weakness when set against millions of power? You fell yourselves, your empire is a pathetic mockery of what your kind once had. Mark my words well– unlike you we shall be mighty once again. We would prefer it if there were still a galaxy to rule when we are ready to return.’

-Beast Series Book 5 (Throneworld)

>>50081407
Contied.....

A Murderclown shadowseer, you know a member of the guys who are the chief experts on Chaos, says that the threat of Chaos is millions of years old. All of this is a part of war waged since the times of the Elder Races.

>>50081394
see >>50081359

The War in Heaven happened 60 million years ago.

The Daemon Cage construction and the imprisonment of billions of daemons in them happened before any life appeared on Earth. Which makes billions of years ago.

So don't lie to me, anon.

>>50074000
I think you've got it backwards.

Nurgle being born is what caused the Black Plague.

>>50081364
I believe that discussion on /tg/ would be much more pleasant if the words "canon" and "meme" could disappear entirely.
And at least those two wouldn't get misused every two posts.

>>50081333
>current warp is shit because it's full of daemons
>warp pre-war in heavens was pretty comfy
>daemons were created during the war, making it a shitty place
>all daemons retroactively existed before the war when they were created, making it a shitty place from the start.

Err, does not compute. Even with time paradoxes taken into account.

Also it doesn't matter a single bit in the narrative whether daemons exist since millions or trillions of years. Why would anyone create such a convoluted mess for no reason?

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okay, Chaos in itself is primordial

but the big3 and Slaanesh are relatively new

meaning Chaos "Gods" may come and go, lesser demons rise to the top, only to eventually lose status to other beings.

gods may die, and new one can be formed/merged/given birth to

>>50081515
>Also it doesn't matter a single bit in the narrative whether daemons exist since millions or trillions of years. Why would anyone create such a convoluted mess for no reason?

the concept of time and how it affects warp may explain this; see Argel Tal spending years in warp, when in reality he was gone maybe hours/minutes?
Empreror on Molech, gone minutes from reality, spent maybe centuries in warp?
Horus, gone a few moments through the portal, spent maybe decades in the warp?

The Daemons may not lie when they claim to be trillions of years old, because the concept of "year" in warp makes no sense.
A newer god like Nurgle who is 40k terran years old, may just be feeling like it is 40k trillion warp years old because time stops making sense in immaterium.

we humans observe time somewhat as related to changes in real space; where there is no "real space" - how could time be measured in a boiling sea of madness?

>>50081515
>warp pre-war in heavens was pretty comfy

If it was comfy, then the reason was because the Old Ones (or whoever was the godlike ancient race was) created prisons and illegally imprisoned billions upon billions of daemons and warp entities in them.

When the War of Heaven reached its climax, it seems some of these prisons broke and the daemons exacted their revenge on the Old Ones.

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>>50081544
>but the big3 and Slaanesh are relatively new

I disagree. Be'lakor is the first son of the Gods, all four of them. He courted the gods and they took him into their wound and birthed him as the First Daemon and Prince of Chaos.

To be do this, the Chaos Gods need to be present at the time of his mortal life which is possibly millions of years old and certainly before the Fall and even before the Emperor was born on Terra.

>>50081496
>Nurgle being born is what caused the Black Plague.
Sauce?

Also, Nurgle is pretty tame compared to Slaanesh, killing roughtly a third of of the population on a backwater planet full of unwashed savages, where the prince of excess ate the souls of everyone in a 2000 light-year radius and created a permanent hole in the fabric of reality.
And what about the justinian plague or the spanish flu? Was Nurgle birthed three times? Not to mention 40k pandemics where entire systems die and rise as plague zombies, maggots as big as the arm spawn from corpses, and even the plants get the disease.

>>50081568
Why? Warhammer Fantasy setting may well take place after the Fall.

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>>50081568
warptimetravel?

Cyclical timeline of universe?
Belakor losing his wristwatch and having no clue about what time it is or what timeline it is or whether he is in immaterium or reality?
would a daemon ever lie?

>>50081607
>Why? Warhammer Fantasy setting may well take place after the Fall.

We have confirmation that Be'lakor ascension happened before the Fall. He is the first daemon prince of Chaos, right? Khorne has elevated two daemon princes from 2 horse lords from ancient medieval Terra.

>would a daemon ever lie?

Be'lakor is not the guy making the claims.

>>50081608
Come on everyone know the reason, GW retcons. Dont lie to yourself that its anything but this.

>>50071999
> Implying they didn't try that already.
> Implying the result wasn't the Emperor himself.
You know in your heart that will be canon.

>>50071999
>Why don't the Chaos Gods create another Chaos God?

>>50074614
>>50074693
>>50074711
>>50074721
>the fags who collect the minis and dont play tge game are malal

>>50077876
Wait what do you mean that they don't get power from emotions. That was why they were more powerful than other factions and who they were.

>>50078138
I am going to need a source just so I can see this shit with my own eyes

>>50081568

>Be random Old One
>War in heaven
>Shitkick 'crontyr
>Round two
>Ohshitc'tans
>Ohshitbeepboopnecrontyrs
>Go to ground
>Watch as species die off
>Crons leave the scene
>Warp is fucked
>Go insane
>Do wierd ayyy lmao plots with minor ayyy lmao species
>Grow to like new warp
>Big K, N and T formed
>Fall of Eldar
>Big S formed
>DP position opens up
>Lie on CV
>First DP yay
>Chaos gods look at the fuck up that i've become
>Decide to do their own thing from now
And that's why a) There's only one undivided prince and b) Why Bellend'akor is older than Chaos.
>>50081359
The cage was built to trap Enslavers and shit, undaemonic warp entities. Plot hole closed.

>>50074614
>>50074711
>>50074721
>Khorne is the guy who plays CSM or KDK not to win, because he knows his codex is inferior, but because he loves to play the game.

>>50085647
This makes a lot more sense than the whole Be'Lakor was a Daemon all that time hahaha thing.

>>50071999
Because the Chaos Gods don't do "working together for the greater good" outside of dire circumstances or golden opportunity (See Horus Heresy)

>>50072972
>Using 1d4chan as a fluff source
>Ever
It's good for memes, but citing it as a source only shows you don't understand it.