Are Orcs more competent than Orks? Every Fantasy army seems more

>>50068052

Don't you mean Orruks?

>>50068052
>it's

>>50068052

Orks in pre-End Times fantasy ware just another threat coming from outside the Empire's borders to loot and slaughter. In 40k they are an ever-present manace, easy to come by and hard to remove.

For the next part of your post OP, I wouldn't say so. There is an illusion of incompetence but it comes from the fact that 40k is stale, Fantasy was moved forward. That's why, for example, Archaon seems more competent than Abaddon. But years ago he was also an "soon, you will all feel my wrath" villain.

>>50068052
That's because Fantasy is overall more grounded where 40k didn't survive its own hype and got blown out of proportions. Due to the more nuanced dimensions of Fantasy, tactical mistakes are more reasonable and plot twists aren't as outrageous. Regular people making bad decisions isn't as infuriating to read as gen-hanced demigods with superior cranial processing power making bad decisions.

>>50068320
I came here to post this. Also to post that, even if Orkz are incredibly dangerous, physically superior enemies are even more dangerous when you're forced to poke them with a pointy metal stick instead of dropping a few with a laser gun.

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>>50068052
Orcs tend to have a culture of some kind. most probably due to the role play aspect of most fantasy settings. While 40k is gameplay with story but as in depth of role play so that real culture isn't needed.

And I would agree the theme of 40k is that everyone is a moron seeking bloodlust of some kind.

>>50068052
Remember that competence doesn't necessarily mean intelligence, just how good are you at doing what you are supposed to be doing. In that regard, i'd say most orks are fairly competent.

>>50068189
I hate those new alternative names, it's like they want to be original oc do not steal

>>50068052
No, since they are utterly insignificant in comparison.

Think of the scale OP, compared to barbarians that barely control part of a world and a race of interstellar warriors that wage wars that consume multiple worlds and star systems.

>>50068905
AoS is almost entirely done for copyright/marketing purposes

Orks don't squabble at d6 rule.

>>50068052
Orks are autistic savants who surpassed Imperial tehnology

>>50069047

>gorkanaut

>>50068265
>the

>>50069070
>nutshack

>>50068320
It is funny that despite being more grounded, Fantasy characters tend to have much higher power levels than 40k.

>>50069076
You are talking total nonsense. Basic 40k wargear used to appear in Warhammer as powerful magical items, like lasguns and shit being used by the Amazons.
A single random spacemarine would be like some sort of god champion.

The warhammer world is weak as shit in comparison, single battles taking place in 40k can involve more soldiers than that of the combined warriors of the old world nations.
Not to mentions you could just nuke the shit out of their entire planet which would be total destruction for the Fantasy world but just another day in the life of the Dark Future where there is Only War.

Either on the micro or the macro level the future setting is just 'bigger' overall.

Orks united as a race once and nearly conquered the galaxy.

The orcs never united as a species and are not a global threat.

However, the Orruks in AoS threaten to become a cosmic force of destruction that can surpass even Chaos.

So it's Orks > Orruks > Orcs

>>50069473

>Orks united as a race once and nearly conquered the galaxy.

In shitty new fluff created to sell some novels.

>The orcs never united as a species and are not a global threat

The "globe" of Warhammer also never fully united. So any of the major Waaagh's could have destroyed most of it one species/nation/warband at a time.

>>50069616
Well, Ghaz was always prophesied to be unite all the Orks and lead a giant final Waaaagh.

But every faction in 40k has that, because it's the Time of Ending, and has been for a while.

>>50069197
Autism

I remember football hooligan orks...

>>50068052
It's not that they are more competent, it's that they don't mess up as often. Orks outnumber Orc(or Orruks) by a huge margin. From sheer numbers alone that gives Orks more opportunities to royally screw up

>>50069616
>In shitty new fluff created to sell some novels.

The Beast is older than the novel series by some years. And what you said is irrelevant.

The Orks have the capacity to unite as a species and threaten all in the galaxy.

>The "globe" of Warhammer also never fully united. So any of the major Waaagh's could have destroyed most of it one species/nation/warband at a time.

The Orcs during the End Times gathered up in great numbers. This was their chance to unite as a race. However, there wasn't a powerful warlord with vision to take advantage of this once in a lifetime chance. The gathering Orcs fragmented into many warbands and the Orcs ascendancy was thwarted by their incompetence.

The greenskins in WHFB never rose to a great threat. Sure they have notable destructive Waaaghs but so do the Orks in 40K.

>>50069616
>In shitty new fluff created to sell some novels.
The beast has been a part of imperial history for a while, the novels only elaborated on it. There's a lot of shit Thst happened in the 10k years between the Horus heresy and the present timeline

Also, Orcs destroyed the vampire kingdoms of the Strigois bloodline and were responsible for their downfall. They're also responsible for the fall of many dwarf holds, and they've brought the empire to its knees on a couple occasions, Gorbads WAAAGH being most successful

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The autism levels of this thread are scary.

People, nobody is talking about Orks vs Orcs, everybody knows that untold billions of Orks with sluggas, gargants and kroozers would win against couple of millions of Orcs with iron choppas and iron armour.

The question is wether Orks, in their setting, are as competent as Orcs in theirs. And are other races compared to their equivaltents in WFB.

>>50068954
And to find the absolute bottom of taste.
So far none went lower, I give that to GW.

>>50070337
The Beast before the series was a rather short sidenote of some serious shit happened in the past.
not the OMFG WE'RE SO BONED FUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKFUCKTHEHERESYWASEASIER the books make it.

I think Orks are more competent than Orcs but I think Gobbos are vastly superior to gretchens.

>>50071662
>The Beast before the series was a rather short sidenote of some serious shit happened in the past.

The Beast was said to be largest Waaagh! in history and it nearly conquered the galaxy. It was stopped by great cost and sacrifice by the Space Marines.

The novels reflect that.

>>50071669
Gobbos at least have their own armies, gretchens are just cannon fodders

If Orcs were given the same weapons as Orks, they would conquer their own planet and then possibly become Orks, or at least Ork-like.
I always had the impression that Orcs were just the same as Orks, but dropped on a planet with only poorly understood steam-power (as far as Steam Tanks are concerned).
The only thing I didn't understand was Orcs not using gunpowder. They don't have to use it efficiently, but I can easily imagining them using it, though I feel that'd be something in Dogs of War or some other 80s/90s rulebook.
In terms of competency, you're asking if an alexandrian soldier could be an effective in the equivalent position in a modern military: possibly if they actually, at some level, understood how modern military hardware and tactics work. A Orc general at such a level is indistinguishable from a Ork, since to have this knowledge, however innate and subconscious, makes an Ork distinct.
Ultimately, we are arguing at what point a soldier, from a previous time period, could be an effective solider in a future time period.

>>50073596
Note: this does not apply to Warhammer Goblins or Gretchins.

>>50073596
>If Orcs were given the same weapons as Orks, they would conquer their own planet and then possibly become Orks, or at least Ork-like.
>Give them sci fi guns and tanks and colossal mechs

No shit they'd fucking dominate the warhammer fantasy world you moron

>>50068052

Wasn't it an Orc that defeated Archeron or whatever his name is in the old lore?

>>50073949
Archaon was already a bit pooped from whipping Valten's ass and grimgor blindsided him. So sort of.

>>50073885
That's not my point. I'm saying that they would win and then probably become a space faring race, as do regular Orks when they land on low-tech planets. In fact, in the next sentence I say they one in the same, once the tech difference has been passed.
I was dismissing the idea that there is a correlation with their tech level and competency.

>>50073949
>>50073983
What an unsatisfying and poorly handled event. It's a shame I can't find a way to view the results as they were on the website.

>>50074036
The whole storm of chaos was a gambit (Chaos being the winning faction player-side was what GW wanted/expected), that blew up in GW's face hilariously.

>>50074061
which faction players chose?

>>50074061
I'm still baffled at how that ended up the way it did.
What a misinterpretation of the fan-base.

>>50068052
Grimgor/Gorbad/Azhag would wreck Ghazghkull.
Also, Skarsnik a best

>>50074110
The whole event was divided between regions, where each part of europe/britbong/US represented a different faction if I recall.

If I remember right, Orcs and Empire were the two 'winning' factions.

>>50074143
then why GW picked Chaos? If they already had ending in mind why even bullshit players into thinking their voice matters?

>>50074061

Hasn't that been any event?

From Storm of Chaos to the 13th Black Crusade, haven't both always resulted in an outcome less than favorable compared to the one GW was expecting?

>>50074110
I think Chaos, the Orcs and the Dark Elves did pretty poorly across the board, Bretonnia retaking a portion of Empire land at one point, as they used the written in reports.
They could have claimed that the reports were tampered with, or that some other mishap had taken place and done a "recount", to maintain an air of credibility.
But instead they just ignored it all and published the story they'd prepared.

>>50074181
Because GW is fucking dumb

>>50074189
Pretty much, which is why GW abandoned the concept of player-driven campaigns altogether. They couldn't keep bullshitting the players with fake 'wins'.

>>50073596
Early gunpowder weapons were so goddamn fiddly though, I mean can you imagine orcs just standing there loading their rifles for two minutes? Maybe if they had a pistol belt that they had gretchin prepare before hand so they could just pull them one after another and fire, but other than that they'd just get one salvo away and they wouldn't hit anything. Look at ork marksmanship. Now imagine they had one bullet each.

>>50068285
>That's why, for example, Archaon seems more competent than Abaddon.
What? The ONE time he does something it's an unmitigated failure (SoC)

>>50074500
Abaddon's tried and failed many times times though, so that means he doesn't learn, even if GW has retconned it into a brilliant masterplan that revolves around simply failing until you auto-succeed, because that was the only way even they could envision Abaddon succeeding at something.

>>50074536

I think it was mentioned Abaddon has accomplished most of his goals set forth in the earlier Black Crusades, such as retrieving his Daemonic Sword and acquiring two Black Stone fortresses.

>>50068905
>>50068954
Have you seen Warcraft? They are the masters of that.
Notable examples include (but are not limited to)
>Thorim
>Loken
>Odim
>Freyyeah
>Neptulon
>Al'akir
>Horrus
>Am'Ra
>Ayesis
>Sek'Met
>Valkyr
>Linken, Champion of Time
>Sindragosa
>Sinestra
>Nefarion

>>50074681
>Odyn
>Freya
>(Who the fuck is Horrus?)
>Ra-den
>Isiset
>Sekhemet
>Nefarian

Corrected spelling errors, because a lot of those were incorrect.

>>50074746
You forgot

Guarm
Helya
Fenryr

>>50068905
That's literally what it is>>50068954

>>50074746
Horus is an egyptian god you dumb nigger.

>>50074953

I know who Horus is, retard. There are no "Egyptian god" characters in Warcraft with that name. The closest one to Horus is Rajh.

>>50075110
I don't fucking play WoW I hate MMOS.

>>50075138
That's fucking nice and I applaud your taste, now learn how to read or follow a simple conversation.