In light of all the recent MYFAROG threads... 1. What do you

Don't call attention to the Myfarog spam.

>>50038275
After seeing it week after week and how much people dislike it, I have some kind of hope we might end up with a funny thread about some theoretical "/pol/: The Triggering" or "SJW: The Defending" or something. /tg/ has more self-awareness than most boards.

>>50038291
See, we could have.

But then /pol/ would come and take everything a) seiously and b) as an insult.

>>50038262

>1. What do you think is the most /pol/itically charged of tabletop games?

I want to say Paizo's "Golarion" so bad, but we all know it's Eclipse Phase

>2. What would you do to make it less so?

Give us some Jovians who aren't treated as punching bags, and highlight some legitimately major problems with the Anarchists.

>3. What would you to make it more so?

The game includes non-binary genders and in fact highlights the vast majority of people are now gender-fluid, allowing us to explore worlds where culture expects "birth-men" or "breeder-women" or whatever other freaky combinations you could get where sex change is cheap.

>>50038335
>The game includes non-binary genders and in fact highlights the vast majority of people are now gender-fluid, allowing us to explore worlds where culture expects "birth-men" or "breeder-women" or whatever other freaky combinations you could get where sex change is cheap.

Isn't it already like that?

>>50038291
I think me made a similar concept years ago. I'll go look for it on 1d4chan.

How would you stat /pol/acks inWoD, though?
What would their powers and place in the setting be?

>>50038262
D&D and its diversifation bullshit. they're slowly turning mythical europe fantasy into modern day america fantasy.

>>50038335
>I want to say Paizo's "Golarion"
The setting isn't really that politically charged. It's the individual NPC backstories that are.
>>50038389
D&D was never supposed to emulate historical Europe. You had wild tribesman, cave people, dinosaurs, and robots shooting laser guns from day fucking 1.

You don't need to include brown people in your setting if the very idea of them triggers you so fucking much.

>>50038347

Surprisingly, no. For all their bluster about the future of Humanity, developers have on-record stated that the vast majority of Transhumanity in Eclipse Phase still prefer monogamous, heterosexual relationships involving the creation of new life.

It's only when you get to the Anarchists or the people living in the Outer Systems that you get parents putting their children in Pleasure Pods to be gender-fluid (pleasure pods can change their genitalia at-will) or using the alphabet soup of gender identities. The majority of Transhumanity live in the Inner System, planets that (stubbornly) cling to the traditions of Old Earth.

>>50038443
And guess which of those the narrative presents as enlightened and which as a bunch of designated bad guys

>>50038389
>mythical Europe
there's your problem

>>50038678

Why would mythical Europe have black people?

>>50038698
It's mythical. Teleportation gone awry. Kunta Kente and his buddies have been chasing this one fucking vampire for gods knows how long.

And his point is that D&D was never supposed to be mythical Europe.

>>50038698
Ambassadors from the kingdom of Prester John

>>50038727
>And his point is that D&D was never supposed to be mythical Europe.

And that just loops back to the anon's original argument that D&D is now just modern day America fantasy.

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>>50038291
>After seeing it week after week and how much people dislike it

People don't dislike MYFAROG (because the creator won't ever post a scan of the rules, so no one on /tg/ will ever read the rules). People dislike the weekly spam threads that are obviously created by the same OP, or someone aping the OP.

The game itself seems to be a lackluster retroclone with an extra layer of "muh nordic heritage" rules on top.

>>50038739

There's a difference between "you meet one or two ambassadors from the Kingdom of Nubia" and numerous black people popping up everywhere as bakers, soldiers or farmers.

>>50038747
>anon's original argument that D&D is now just modern day America fantasy.

I don't see how acknowledging that brown people exist and occasionally having them appear suddenly makes it American. Or why that's even a bad thing.

>>50038698
Moors

>>50038747
Yeah, but it always was. It's not something that just happened. Anon was complaining like D&D's gotten worse because of it whereas if that was his measurement, it was always just as bad. (of course, anon could always admit that he never cared about historical accuracy and is just triggered by black people, but that's less socially acceptable and he has no balls)

>>50038772
>and numerous black people popping up everywhere as bakers, soldiers or farmers.
What settings actually have this happen? At most you'll see a black dude whose an adventurer or a trader.

What, no Racial Holy War? I'm surprised, /tg/.

>>50038773

Acknowledging that brown people exist? Sure, I'm all for that. Would be great to have brown people kingdoms and regions to visit.

It's when you have a significant percentage of your human population in what is clearly inspired by Europe has dark skin for absolutely no reason does it get a little wonky.

>>50038776

Moors were unique to North Africa, Spain and bits of South Italy, they wouldn't be showing up in any significant numbers in Germany or France post-1066.

>>50038773
In a world where 20% of people have access to teleportation magic and heroes routinely fly around the globe on adventures, it's unrealistic to imagine black people ever leaving the Africa-analog continent or settling elsewhere.

>>50038789
>What, no Racial Holy War? I'm surprised, /tg/.
OP doesn't want any competition with his game

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>>50038800
>In a world where 20% of people have access to teleportation magic and heroes routinely fly around the globe on adventures, it's unrealistic to imagine black people ever leaving the Africa-analog continent or settling elsewhere.

Which is why you always see a significant amount of white people in the Africa-analog, right?

>>50038822
>Which is why you always see a significant amount of white people in the Africa-analog, right?
Most settings don't really go into that much detail but that is true for Golarion at least. The Wizards of the Expanse and the rest of the Inner Sea regularly send students too and fro to learn magic from around the world.

>>50038789
RaHoWa is too silly to be taken seriously.

>>50038837

A student is not equivalent to a common farmer.

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>1. What do you think is the most /pol/itically charged of tabletop games?
The most popular. It's probably D&D, currently. Morons who look for trouble often flock to what is popular.
>2. What would you do to make it less so?
Alienate the entire playerbase so that no one is playing it. No /pol/ shit if there's no one looking for it.
>3. What would you to make it more so?
Find a way to attract in wave after wave of new players. It started in the 80s when D&D was popular enough to warrant Christian anti-D&D propaganda. The modern equivalent is some overweight university student wearing thick-rimmed glasses with enough dye in their hair to count as aposematism vaping on their blog about how some nerds sitting away from the public eye using dice to partially randomise a game of pretend with set rules is "problematic"

>>50038389
>D&D was never supposed to emulate historical Europe. You had wild tribesman, cave people, dinosaurs, and robots shooting laser guns from day fucking 1.
i am aware of this. D&D was pastiche from day 1. but at the core resides tolkien-esque fantasy, aka mythical medieval europe. see Dragonlance, see Forgotten Realm. it takes this tokien-esque fantasy and puts in additional elements as spices. however, if FR becomes more filled with people of color now (as the demographics of the US changes), it is abandoning its european roots.

you cannot have classical fantasy (which is based on mythical medieval europe) and substantial amounts of people of color in not-europe at the same time.

>>50038678
>>50038698
well, mythical europe means "a variant of the europe in King Arthur, Nibelungs, Beowulf, Robin Hood, etc"
if you put too many black people in (as in the new beowulf show), it stops being that

>D&D was never supposed to be mythical Europe.
the moment it abandons the core being mythical europe, it opens up a flank for other companies because ultimately people want to relive the above stories or LOTR or GoT or Conan. at the heart of all these tales is mythical medieval europe.

>>50038761
>People dislike the weekly spam threads that are obviously created by the same OP, or someone aping the OP.
untrue. i am not the OP here but i made a MYFAROG thread last week and promptly was accused (to my silent amusement) of continually creating the same spam threads

>>50038865
I'm still waiting on the D&D setting with loads of blacks as common farmers.

>>50038787
maybe but it's definitely on the rise and the question is how far it goes as the US demographics shifts. and the new beowulf is indication that it will travel in this direction.

>>50038955
>at the core resides tolkien-esque fantasy
You mean Dying Earth and Conan.

>>50038800
>In a world where 20% of people have access to teleportation magic and heroes routinely fly around the globe
wait a sec, i thought 5E toned down on magic items and shit? secondly, heroes and villains play by different rules than commoners/mooks.

>>50038955
>the moment it abandons the core being mythical europe, it opens up a flank for other companies because ultimately people want to relive the above stories or LOTR or GoT or Conan.
This is literally an opinion. D&D never abandoned being mythical Europe because it was never supposed to be Europe.
>it opens up a flank for other companies because ultimately people want to relive the above stories or LOTR or GoT or Conan. at the heart of all these tales is mythical medieval europe.
And many of these people want to do something different or not exactly like your ideal version of mythical Europe.

>>50038969
huh. halflings aren't not!hobbits after all, i guess.

>>50038955
>but at the core resides tolkien-esque fantasy, aka mythical medieval Europe.
D&D begins and stops being tolkein-esque with Elves, Dwarvevs, Halflings, and Balors.
>>50038964
>maybe but it's definitely on the rise
Examples mother fucker
>beowulf shows
People have been acting as people not of their race and gender for centuries.

>>50038955

Lancelot was, canonically, a black man. Beowulf has numerous references to the dark skin of their compatriots. Robin Hood's partner was a black Saracen, for god's sake! Are you telling me representing these people is wrong? Give me a break.

Now, time to bitch and moan about white people in Asian settings...

>>50038988
Tolkien was always less of an influence than Vance, Howard, Anderson, etc. OD&D had hobbits, balrogs, and the like (mostly as holdovers from the Chainmail Fantasy Supplement), but the tone was always more pulp than LotR.

>>50039003
>Lancelot was, canonically, a black man.
> Beowulf has numerous references to the dark skinf their compatriots
I'm not /pol/ but this is some legit "WEWUZ" shit. Stop giving them ammo, pls.'

>>50038980
>This is literally an opinion. D&D never abandoned being mythical Europe because it was never supposed to be Europe.
huh. i guess there has never been a controvery about monks being too controversial.

does FR have knights, btw? should we run down the list?

>And many of these people want to do something different or not exactly like your ideal version of mythical Europe.
fine with me. just as long as you understand that introducing PoC to a substantial degree means turning your back on LOTR, GoT, King Arthur, even Conan (where races are geographically divided).

>>50039023
>does FR have knights, btw?
You are aware that FR and its satellite settings cover most of a planet, right?

>>50039019
In medieval European terms, "black" could describe anything from "dark hair and eyes" to "swarthy complexion" or even "perpetually unhappy-looking"

>>50039019

How the hell is it WE WUZ shit?

>>50038955
Really, because I play DnD to be amoral adventurers chasing profit.

>>50039050

Clearly because it's okay for black people to be in a fictional rendition of Europe, but it's totally not okay to make characters whose skin color or gender never mattered black or women.

Does Beowulf lose anything by being a woman? Does Lancelot cease to be a character if he's black?

>>50038312

Offending /pol/ would be a plus.

The most politically charged game by far is Eclipse Phase. Other games have more political content, but no game and no fan base is so obsessively, self-consciously political.

Even W:tA, which was written by a very political person (Andrew Greenberg) and was openly admitted to be a political activism in art, doesn't reach EP's level because the FANS aren't all that political.

>>50039146
>beowolf becomes a cute girl
FORCE OF WILLLLLL

>>50039050
See
>>50039039

>>50038389
If you seriously think that D&Ds having the occasional art piece featuring a black dude makes it THE MOST POLITICALLY CHARGED TABLETOP GAME, your knowledge of tabletop games is really, really, really, really, REAAAALY lacking.

>>50038955
>well, mythical europe means "a variant of the europe in King Arthur, Nibelungs, Beowulf, Robin Hood, etc"
How about the variant that also has minotaurs, mind flayers, beholders, alien robots, vampires and pirates? Because that's the one D&D's always assumed. Your individual game may've been an autistic rendition of Arthurian mythology, but that's not what the developers ever had in mind

>>50038955
>you cannot have classical fantasy (which is based on mythical medieval europe) and substantial amounts of people of color in not-europe at the same time.
I don't even know how to start breaking down this sentence into its component stupidities. Any combination of words in any order is equally stupid, help

>>50039033
yes. which is why I said above
>at the CORE resides tolkien-esque fantasy, aka mythical medieval europe.
the core! conan was adventuring through all kinds of african/asian cultures too. this is fine for a campaign. the bread & butter of classical fantasy remains not!europe though.

>>50039003
>Lancelot was, canonically, a black man.
citation needed. anyway, there's a difference between having a single outsider of different color to having large parts of not!europe's opulation black or asian or arab. the former is good, established tradition in mythical europe's tales. the latter is a more recent phenomenon. i suspect it is driven by changing demographics, mainly in the USA.

>>50038955
Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance we're both heavily influenced by Glorantha, which is famous for being a non-Tolkeinesque fantasy setting. FR and Dragonlance has more European areas, but the Sword Coast was always a big trade route and is the big focus in 5e.

Greyhawk is based on a lot of things, but Gygax was not a Tolkien fan and only let some of it in because his players.

>>50039311
i don't but it has started the kind of debate that i wanted to start.

>>50039369
i reread the sentence. i stand to it. but go ahead, give us your argument against it. we're waiting.

anyway:
>Set on the planet Abeir-Toril, most of the Forgotten Realms source material focuses on the continent Faerûn. Faerûn is pretty similar to pre-industrial Europe, with the exceptions of all of that crazy fantasy stuff.
>source: 1d4chan
>inb4 id4chan, lel
we can look at more sources, if you want to. but you should realize that you are under suspicion of
a) being a troll
b) being a SJW who is going to deny what has been common wisdom all along: FR is based on mythical, medieval/renaissance europe.

the 1d4chan author at least had no reason to lie about the europe connection, unlike a SJW who doesnt want anyone to shit on WOTC's diversity strategy.

so, go ahead, make your play. i dare ya to.

>>50039230

That doesn't answer anything.

>>50039446
>i don't but it has started the kind of debate that i wanted to start.
Ah! So you're literally trolling! Phew, I thought there for a moment you were serious. Could you please put on trips so I can hide your posts?

>>50039429
shall we have a look at the architecture of Faerun? the clothing of commoners? the most common arms? do i need to post baldur's gate and neverwinter nights screenshots?

or maybe wikipedia?
>The theme of D&D was influenced by mythology, pulp fiction, and contemporary fantasy authors of the 1960s and 1970s. The presence of halflings, elves, dwarves, half-elves, orcs, rangers and the like often draw comparisons to the work of J. R. R. Tolkien. The resemblance was even closer before the threat of copyright action from Tolkien Enterprises prompted the name changes of hobbit to 'halfling', ent to 'treant', and balrog to 'balor'. Gygax maintained that he was influenced very little by The Lord of the Rings, stating that he included these elements as a marketing move to draw on the popularity of the work[7][8] However, in an interview in 2000, he acknowledged that Tolkien had a "strong impact".[9]

Question!

Is it okay to play a mighty white hero in Not!Africa or Not!Asia?

>>50038698
>hurt dur I'm a retarded celt whose never heard of the Italian or Iberian peninsulas

How does it feel to be retarded?

>>50039467
>Ah! So you're literally trolling!
>literally trolling
not really

>Phew, I thought there for a moment you were serious. Could you please put on trips so I can hide your posts?
why, yes, of course. there you go.

>>50039505
>black people in spain or italy
please give me a percentage of the overall populace

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>>50039478
So European!

>>50039504
In a particular kind of game, certainly. In most fantasy settings, it would be okay to play A white hero in Africa or Asia. One among many, not more or less inherently capable. You know, like the black heroes in the vast majority of fantasy RPGs, if you'd ever actually bothered to check them rather than spazzing out and closing the book the moment you saw melanin.

>>50039505

Oh sure, because Pedro the Moorish Castilian is going to pick up his things and move to Lübeck.

Enclaves existed yes, but they weren't inexplicably dispersed throughout the countryside.

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>>50039529 (me)
Even in it's roots you see how much the art was influenced by Tolkien!

>>50039535

Is it also good to have significant numbers of white people in your Not!Africa or Not!Asia?

>>50039576
Why not?

>>50039529
well, yes.

>>50039535
not him but... i have no problems with occasional black heroes in not!europe. i have a problem if significant percentages of the genpop turn non-white. also, i have to wonder how you'd feel about the above scenario if about 40% of heroes in not!africa were white. just showing those southerners how it's properly done, ey?

>>50039555
they existed at border regions. and to a lesser degree probably in trade centers. again, no problem with occasional exotic black man in not!europe.

>>50039576
I want you to show me where in the Forgotten Realms guide they give you a percentage based ethnic breakdown of waterdeep that says it's 20% latinos. Because otherwise, you're basing it on the art, which by definition only shows you interesting snapshots of the setting (assuming it doesn't just show you individual characters, in which case all supposed "claims" of representation go out the window since these people are exceptional by definition), meaning they're inordinately likely to include eyecatching characters.

>>50039529
>>50039564
nice anecdotal evidence. how is that going to disprove my above claim that D&D always was pastiche with tolkienesque not!europe at its core though? good luck trying that.

>>50039576
don't bother, he's an SJW trying to protect muh diversity in gaming. they're even claiming that Faerun isnt based on europe now. i mean, how desperate can one get?

>>50039603
that brings up another conundrum for WOTC though. if they want to appeal to PoC gamers... how long will they be satisfied with just being outliers?

>>50038435
>It's the individual NPC backstories that are.
Yeah this, I have made it sound less /pol/itically charged, but I think using Taldor and Alkenstar, the two countries Paizo gives little shits about doesn't count. Given that the major NPC's of the former have all of about a paragraph of information on each and nothing on the latter other than a name or two. Portraying the Grand Prince Stavian III as an armchair detective made it a lot more fun desu senpai

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Man who the fuck cares what color the people are. It's fantasy. There are literal green skins running about next to scaly dragon people, and niggers being about your pseudo-europe hurts believably? This shit is just depressing.

I just don't fucking get it. Having robots and shit is okay, that doesnt break from your meme vision of pure north Western European mythological setting. But having a couple black dudes does. It's such an arbitrary line to draw in the sand.

>>50039478
>the architecture of Faerun
Why certainly! Do you want to look at Mulhorand? Turmish? Amn? Tethyr? Calimshan? Chult? Chondath? Sespech? Unther? The Shaar? Ulgarth? Halruaa?

>>50039644
You're calling people sjws for being content with the status quo. What.

>>50039699

Diversity has a weird ring to it when you see the NBA is labeled the "most diverse organization in America" and it's basically all black guys. Same with many schools that proudly claim how they don't have a single white student and, as they're all Asian or African, they're beaming examples of diversity.

>>50039673
and again, the roots of Forgotten Realms are indirectly (via the above mentioned authors, including Tolkien) King Arthur, Siegfried, Robin Hood, Beowulf, Dietrich von Bern, etc.

are you trying to tell me that abandoning these roots doesn't change the atmosphere? it is these above stories that have captured the imagination of people and driven people like JRR or Howard. even today, looking at Westeros, this is what drives the genre.

but perhaps you think GoT would be equally popular if the cast was 80% black actors.

fucking SJWs

>>50039689

I forgot how much I hated Forgotten Realms until you reminded me how nonsensical their naming system was.

You're basically throwing letters at me right now. That shit's babble.

>>50039682
>Having robots and shit is okay,
what, no! i dont robots or lasers in my fantasy, unless i am explicitly aiming at crossover campaign.

>>50039603
>>50039644
Calishites and Rashemi aren't from the Forgotten Realms now? What about the Bedines?

Also, of course, a setting without black people really can't be considered tolkienesque at all, considering there's a fucking army of them in the most well-known work.

>>50039739
>what, no! i dont robots or lasers in my fantasy, unless i am explicitly aiming at crossover campaign.

You mean like, "crossing over with D&D"?

Because old-school D&D has robots and lasers and shit.

>>50039739
This just proves how garbage your taste is. Gonzo is the finest fantasy.

>>50039644
Those are the original FR AD&D 1e products you moron.

>>50039719
The fucking stories aren't even visual in the first place, it'd change jack shit to have different skin colors on the characters.

And the continent of Westeros itself has a fucking country of desert-dwelling brown people, not to mention random not!blacks and not!arabs popping up all over the place because they or their ancestors wandered in sometime.

>>50039656
Yes, how long will it be before the Jewish lizardmen unveil their master plan and the Knights Templar defeat the Illuminati? Is your bunker ready for the reckoning?

Do you realize how retarded you're sounding right now?

>>50039717
I don't give a shit about your stupid American race politics. The rest of the civilized civilized world has figured out that there's a middle ground between alt right and sjw

>>50039644
EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS AN SJW REEEEEEEEE

BUT IF YOU TRY TO CLAIM THAT I'M FROM /POL/ JUST BECAUSE MY VIEWPOINTS REFLECT /POL/s THAT MAKES YOU ANTI-INTELLECTUAL REEEEREEEE

>>50039719
>but perhaps you think GoT would be equally popular if the cast was 80% black actors
>what is half the series being set in Essos

>>50039816
Enter 21st century two party politics, where discussion is impossible, a middle ground doesn't exist and you're either for or against.

>>50039877
Only in America. There's a whole wide world out there, if you only dare peek outside whatever Kansas town you grew up in and are statistically as likely to leave as a Middle Ages peasant their own home village.

>>50039758
i didnt claim anything else, asshat. i also take note that the most pooular D&D setting by far has disposed of the science-fiction elements. apparently gamers prefer mythical not!europe without lasers and robots.

but nice cherry-picking there. same goes for >>50039753

>>50039902
I'm from Canada... My point is that this whole argument has nothing to do with pseudo european mythology. There are swashbuckling pirates for Christ sake.

I hate that /pol/'s been getting it's bullshit everywhere lately. I can't escape retarded-ass identity politics or ideological dick-measuring or offline.

>>50039920
Yet you're still bitching about how it's filled with black people. So, by your own definition, it still isn't mythological not-Europe.

>>50039795
which brings us again to the point where occasional non-whites are just fine.

>>50039803
>Do you realize how retarded you're sounding right now?
nope. i realize you claiming that i do so after delivering a strawman though. good going.

>>50039809
>The rest of the civilized civilized world has figured out that there's a middle ground between alt right and sjw
go and tell that Angela Merkel.

>>50039816
you should browse /pol/ more before calling anyone else /pol/. /pol/ would have a problem with having non-white hero PCs.

>>50039833
>the game of thrones is all about who will be king or queen of essos
>who cares about the seven kingdoms
okay

>>50039902
b-b-but... I thought >>50038800 does apply
bwahahaha, no I didnt

>>50039988
>the game of thrones is all about who will be king or queen of essos
>who cares about the seven kingdoms

So, by extension, you're saying that all the characters in D&D books are black now? No white person in sight? Interesting, been a while since I've read those, then.

Or are you just using a stupid, inappropriate metaphor because you're foaming at the mouth with rage at the thought of darkies?

>>50038262
The answer to 1 is, always has been and always will be, RaHoWa. This may be obvious, but it's still worth saying.

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>>50039902
> only on 4chan

Don't you love how there's a fringe political group that heavily stigmatizes others and in fact fetishizes their own superiority in the face of perceived oppression, particularly at the hands of a nebulous societal conspiracy? And that they actively try to silence any and all discussion they dislike while advertising their ideals literally anywhere they can fit them into? Getting told how to think by political movements and ignoring that silly old "anyone can post anything" concept is so much better that the old 4chan.


Man its a good thing 4chan doesn't have any SJW problems.

>>50039146
>Does Beowulf lose anything by being a woman?

Yes, his entire cultural heritage and the background which is crucial to understanding his character. Reading Beowulf, even in translation, you get a strong sense of the honour-warrior society archetype, and of Beowulf's place in this world. Background conflicts are mentioned, jobs are alluded to, and (to actually agree with the leftists) gender roles and identity were an important cultural indicator. It's not even a matter of "could/did a woman have power" or something, there is a qualitative cultural difference between a king and queen in the culture which Beowulf is supposed to be part of (and in the Anglo-Saxon culture which recorded and recited the story). As a character, his role would change immensely if he was a woman. A modern audience might not catch this, or give a fuck, but it's still there. Beowulf literally needs to be a man who achieves greatness by the strength of his deeds.

I haven't watched whatever Beowulf thing you are referring to, and odds are exceedingly high that it was going to be an inaccurate bastardization anyway, but tl;dr yes. Yes he does.

>>50039988
There's a difference between race politics and refugee politics. I don't get what you're trying to argue at this point. There's uncountable other features that detract from your specific view of what northwestern European mythology should look like in d&d. Did you just arbitrarily pick the race one?

>>50039974
well, it has experienced a shift in recent years.
initially D&D was mashup of all kinds of shit ( called it pastiche way up above), not the least of which tolkien. it ancestry is medieval wargames, iirc. the sci-fi elements turned out to be less popular and we saw the rise dragon lance and forgotten realms. it still included stuff from all kinds of cultures. now though, as i suspect due to the shift in US demographics, we are seeing greater diversity in D&D.

and the question is what impact this will have on Forgotten Realms and fantasy gaming in general. being inclusive is good and fine but there will come a point where D&D becomes too detached from its european roots.

>>50040052
Nigger it's d&d, it will always be knights and dragons. You're being fearmongering and sensationalist.

>>50038367
Ghosts that are annoying each other and mortals that can't even punch them
They may or may not have a material host somewhere else in the world

>>50040016
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOR you are just strawman-ing because your arguments are weaksauce.

>>50040039
>There's a difference between race politics and refugee politics.
If someone thinks that the fact that the majority of these refugees have a different skin color should play no role, they are not the middle ground between /pol/ and SJW. they are SJW.

>There's uncountable other features that detract from your specific view of what northwestern European mythology should look like in d&d.
i never doubted that D&D is pastiche though. look upwards in this thread. i maintain that the core is mythological, medieval europe.

it's a question if this core gets maintained or not.

>>50040060
>it's d&d, it will always be knights and dragons
>knights and dragons
dude, they're claiming in this thread even that D&D isn't centered around europe.

there is no bounds to the lengths of unreason the assholes in here will go to to silence any criticism of the recent diversity trend.

>>50040102
>i maintain that the core is mythological, medieval europe.
That's because you're an idiot. D&D's core has always been pulp fantasy, which is a mashup of anything and everything the writers could think of.

Or at least, it was originally. D&D's core now is itself, and bears little relation to anything not equally inspired by D&D.

>>50040132
>D&D's core has always been pulp fantasy, which is a mashup of anything and everything the writers could think of.

I'm not one of the fags you're arguing with, but could you provide examples of some stuff from the original D&D which is not only "not something taken from Europe" but which is specifically "something taken from a different cultural context"? Because otherwise "some stuff inspired by Europe + a bunch of shit they made up with no relation to Europe" is still "inspired by Europe".

>>50040127
>dude, they're claiming in this thread even that D&D isn't centered around europe.
It isn't. It draws many things from Europe and other sources but in no way is it meant to be some sort of 1:1 accurate representation of this ideal mythic Europe you'd fine in folklore. It's pulp and always has been pulp.

>>50039920
Those are the cover pages of the first FR products. It could not be less cherry picking.

>>50040152
Desert Dervishes and nomads.
Dinosaurs.
Martians/Creatures taken from Barsoom.

This entire argument is fucking insipid anyways because the point of tabletop is you are completely and utterly in control of your setting, and there is absolutely nothing stopping you from making the most European Europe that ever spent a Euro as your setting.

You aren't constrained like a video game.

>>50039719
I doubt 90%+ of the people who play DnD have ever read a single word of the material it's inspired by.

Nevermind that half the Conan stories are adventures in Africa or that 'monks' in DnD are explicitly the oriental variety and not Gregorian. I own the ADnD monster manual have played 3.5 and Pf and can honestly say the only 'mythical europe' influences are the races. the monsters, magic, and art style are far more evocative of pulp fantasy

>>50040152
All the creatures, magic items and themes from the Arabian Nights aesthetic (genies, rocs, flying carpets) would be a good start, going back to the very 1st edition of D&D. Greek mythology is technically Europe and has quite a lot of it, though you'd be hypocritical to count it as such since it's as Southerly as all those terrible, terrible black people that scare you so much. Cartoonish cavemen and cyborgs have already been mentioned. Dinosaurs, of course. I remember "dervishes" being an example type of human enemy in the very 1st edition monster supplement (back in the days everything was still attached to Chainmail). The first few adventures.

>>50040196
>Desert Dervishes and nomads.
>Martians/Creatures taken from Barsoom.

There you go.

>Dinosaurs

Nigga dinosaurs can't be from a different culture. They are from no culture. Not that it's really important.

Also, Arabian Nights style orientalism is and has been a part of European culture for like 600 years so I'm not entirely certain that "dervishes and nomads exist in this fantasy setting" is something from outside Europe. I will give you the pulp fiction Barsoom example though.

>>50040152
We don't have to prove more than we have posting art and saying all the shit D&D has that's not European.

Outside "white people" and "knights" your side has brought nothing to show the connection aside from 1d4chan and feelings.

>>50040228
>if it isn't from Europe it's still European Fantasy because I say so

>>50040152
The OD&D supplement Gods, Demi-Gods, and Heroes includes the Egyptian, Indian, Mesoamerican, and Eastern pantheons, in addition to the Greek, Celtic, Finnish, Norse, Hyborean, and Melnibonean pantheons.

You've also got the classic Djinn, mummies, and dervishes hanging around in the deserts, which implies Arabic and Egyptian cultures present

>>50040228
By definition Africa and Asian shit are also European since people knew about them to. You dumb fucker.

Also Cavemen. Like "unga me bunga" cave men riding around on Dinosaurs.

>>50040228
>Also, Arabian Nights style orientalism is and has been a part of European culture for like 600 years so I'm not entirely certain that "dervishes and nomads exist in this fantasy setting" is something from outside Europe
There's a point in an argument where shutting may save you more of what little respect you still have than opening your mouth. You have reached that point.

>>50040250
Speaking of Melnibone, Klaus, you are aware of the fact that the Melniboneans are canonically a dark skinned race, with ethnic features reminiscent of North Africans, yes? Elric the albino is very much an exception.

>>50040228
>Nigga dinosaurs can't be from a different culture. They are from no culture. Not that it's really important.
Please tell me about that mythical Europe where all the forests and swamps were filled with T-rex and how brave knights travelled mountains where Sabertooth Tigers lurked.

Also "Lama" was a title for high level priests.

>>50040224
>Greek culture isn't part of the European cultural heritage

Are you actually fucking retarded? 100% serious question: when was the last time you opened a history textbook, grade 4? I will give you some hints: "Rome", "Byzantium", "Italian Renaissance" (I'll let you figure out how that last one is connected to Greece on your own).

>>50040250

There you go. An actual fucking answer.

>>50040255

No, by definition a Prester John trope would be European-inspired. A "there are Ethiopians in the setting" example would not be European inspired. See how that works?

Europe was aware of Arabian Nights for hundreds of years. Depending on how it's inserted into the setting, you could apply the trope while it still counts as being "European-inspired."

>>50040259

We're all anon so why would I give a single fuck about "respect"? In a maximum of 48 hours this thread will be gone 5ever.

That said, top kek at how mad you guys got and all the assumptions you're making about me being the /pol/ bogeyman. I was genuinely curious and that was my 2nd post in the thread (1st one had literally nothing to do with the "is D&D European" discussion).

tl;dr most of you are not nearly as smart as you think you are

>>50040259
Although what he said was indeed fucking retarded, European history is inextricably linked with Mediterranean history, which is in turn inextricably linked with Middle Eastern history. Can you really have knights without saracens for them to be mad at?

Well... yes, of course you can, but you get my point. Every (or at least most) classic fantasy setting has a mysterious east and deserts full of turban wearing types.

>>50040297
If you'd bothered to read my post, you'd have found out that I WAS saying Greek culture is a part of the European cultural heritage, but that you can't count it as such based on whatever same bizarro logic makes you deny that Iberia is part of it. If you only consider Germany European, then no, Greece is not.

>>50040290

I refer you back to: >>50040152
>not only "not something taken from Europe" but which is specifically "something taken from a different cultural context"? Because otherwise "some stuff inspired by Europe + a bunch of shit they made up with no relation to Europe" is still "inspired by Europe".

If you're going to say "X is not inspired by Y culture, it's inspired by every culture" and then you cite fucking dinosaurs that doesn't show anything.
Reminder as well that pulp fantasy was in the 20th century a part of modern Western culture :^)

What the fuck is MYFAROG?

Also, I feel like I'm going to scroll down and see a bunch of people being completely ignorant about what's deemed "SJW".

...

......

........

Yup.
I find it weird that people call lifestyles they don't agree with "politics".

>>50038443
>>50038335
Last time I read Eclipse Phase, there was a lot about how your gender might not match your body. It's also the one game with a dysphoria roll. I mean, the opening fiction is about a guy who wakes up in a female morph. At least, I think it was a guy.
Though Eclipse Phase is definitely the most political game I've ever seen. It's like someone threw every fringe political ideology at the wall and made an entire faction about whichever ones stuck.

Why is Forgotten Realms being brought up so much as typical european fantasy, when in its early days it was more of a "What if Greece, Phoenicia, and Russia all made it to the Renaissance? Also egypt was literally planeshifted here" The inclusion of !england, !islam, and most of the more traditional things we see in euro-medieval fantasy weren't brought in until later on, when TSR saw that as a way to open the brand up. That said, Cormyr was always traditional euro-fantasy with a little bit of 1984 mixed in for good measure, but that was its purpose as it gave people a place to start that they could easily figure out only to expand outward and go 'wtf is this shit and why is society so liberal about sex and nudity'.

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I hate to be the one to play this card, but it really, really depends on the setting. If you're running Planescape, then it's implausible for there NOT to be a wide variety of people groups, ethnic, cultural, sexual and otherwise to be found SOMEWHERE in the multiple infinities of the Great Wheel.

On the other hand if you're fluffing out a setting or piece of a setting that's meant to be reminiscent of Nazi Germany (e.g. the Imperium in 40k), you might want to withhold a bit of diversity in favor of a strict, conformist atmosphere for the players to defy (or go along with, if that's your group's thing!) as they desire.

>>50040318
>Reminder as well that pulp fantasy was in the 20th century a part of modern Western culture :^)
So? That doesn't make it Mythical European no brownies allowed, pls. If anything that kinda proves my point.

>>50040317

You didn't say "Iberian peninsula," you said "terrible, terrible black people." The Reconquista was technically concluded in the last 15th century but for a large portion of it the only part of el Andalus with black people in it was Granada. There were not in fact Moors at every court and wandering all over the place.

And you're still wrong on this
>If you only consider Germany European, then no, Greece is not.
because I would remind you of the existence of
>the Reformation as influenced by the Renaissance as influenced by Greeks
>the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation
which obviously show Greek influence. Not that I am saying that Germany is the only state in Europe, because that would be fucking stupid, but rather that Greek influence penetrated every single part of Europe to an extent that Moorish influence did not (since Mr. Charlie BTFO them ca. 800 and they gave up on getting into the rest of Europe).

>>50040385
>There were not in fact Moors at every court and wandering all over the place.
And there weren't zigguruts filled with zombies and evil high priests and wizards looking for blind people to care for their basilisks either.

>>50040401

No, but the prime cultural influence is still European until proven otherwise. The only post that even came close to doing so is
>>50040250

Every other one is missing the point and/or missing the forest for the trees.

>>50040431
>but the prime cultural influence is still European until proven otherwise.
I don't anyone is arguing European culture and imagery wasn't a big part. People are arguing that it wasn't the soul contribute, nor the "core" of the experience.

>>50040467

I see. I'm not whichever /pol/ poster started the debate though, as I attempted to make clear in 3 separate posts. I wasn't arguing "it's Europe only and you can't have black people REEE", I was arguing "it was originally mostly European and that is changing due to political restructuring". I still think that's mostly correct, but the pulp fantasy argument is also reasonable. The difference is simply that it went from "broadly European with contemporary pulp fantasy" to "some settings are inspired by non-European cultures" to "the settings which originally were mostly European-inspired are now no longer mostly European-inspired".

I don't really care that much either way though but tl;dr chill out, everyone who disagrees with you isn't a Nazi (assuming you're the guy who immediately went to "lol scary black people amirite").

SJWs want to remove whites/Europeans from the whole world in the name of "diversity". Claiming that D&D never had a European core is par for the course on that revisionist agenda.

>>50040552
I dont think anybody said anything about that though...

>>50040552
And no one in this thread is saying that you /pol/faggot.
>>50040524
>uropean and that is changing due to political restructuring".
Why is it political. It's clear that D&D just evolved into it's own beast as more and more lore and settings came out for it.

>>50040305
That's because stormanon insists that D&D is only inspired by the sparkliest white northern European mythology, except when shown evidence to the contrary, in which case he'll jump through mental hoops in order to make everything else fit under the category

>>50040590

Everything is political m8

Slightly more effort answer: putting in gender information and depictions of black people as the default for a specific class (but in a positive and equal light) literally is a political-cultural change. I'm not saying this is good or bad, divorce that idea from your mind for now. My point is simply that it wouldn't have changed without a change in political context.

Adding cool Babylonian death gods is one thing, this is another.

>>50040568
>>50040590
I correct myself here >>50040467
But the point clearly is that D&D wasn't supposed to be a 1:1 redux of Europe or Authurian legend. It takes a lot of inspiration from it but only in the most shallowest of senses.

Seriously, it started as a wargame. Then some fucks said "what if we just play one dude" and they piled shit on from there. There is no agenda here.

>>50040613
>depictions of black people as the default for a specific class
Where does this happen. Where in the fucking book does it say "most people of this class" are black?

>>50040341
It's an RPG written by some guy in prison, which would be fascinating to read, but he or people he hires come by every three days or so to spam how great it is without ever dropping a PDF.
Allegedly, it's really boring and the rules aren't well-written. We'll know when someone finally bites the bullet and buys it just to share the PDF with the rest of us.
Oh, and you're not allowed to say anything negative about it or else you're a SJW or something dumb like that, I try not to pay too much attention to Vargas.

>>50040625

English isn't my first language so excuse my poor word choice. Replace that sentence with the following:
>Positive depictions through images of black people associated with player characters as equal participants in the story is due to political-cultural change and would not previously have occurred.

>>50040552
This.
Loser Nerds that defend SJW WE WUZ bullshit are the most pathetic creatures.

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>>50038262
More /pol/?
Keep doing what I do. Come up with evocative, politically charged questions that pervade the plot of the game and make the players take 'the red pill' on issues. Reward the players for "coming up with their own solutions" to the problems I set up in the game. The best way to redpill people is to make them redpill themselves.

>>50038822
>>50038837
Golarion's "white" countries are also mostly in the Inner Sea, where everyone is going to travel since it's the central trade hub. There are also a ton of white people in the black areas, to the point that I was actually confused until I learned how all those white pirates got to be in the Africa country. Golarion is probably one of the most reasonable settings in terms of racial demography. Which is one of the only ways it's reasonable.

>>50039809
Continental Europe sees no problems using racially charged imagery to stir up fears, and Britain just voted to leave the EU because they're afraid of all the brown people and Polish.

>>50040025
Whoever made this knows nothing about "SJWs" or even what people on the left even say.
As an aside, it's pretty difficult to argue that "SJWs" are talking about a nebulous societal conspiracy when "the status quo is oppressive [particularly to the disenfranchised]" has been a sentiment for nearly as long as there have been societies. I mean, you've also got the fact that most of the "SJW" thought is focused on academia. Really, I'm always amazed at how little the internet knows about social justice movements. Although I'm already banned from /soc/ for pointing out how shitty Autism Speaks is, so maybe I should just stick pointing out how people are idiots about D&D being some Ur-Europe and how anything deviating from that is wrong [except the things that deviate from it but don't parallel real world ethnicities]

>>50040030
Beowulf as a story could be entirely transplanted to a fictional setting and it would change nothing.

When the fuck did Forgotten realms become the bastion of whiteness? They crammed like a billion different settings (ie Karatur and Zakhara) into that mother fucker since second edition, including campaigns about the fucking knockoff mongol hordes and the freaking Helmites going all Spaniard on Maztica which was the homeland for knock off South america. That doesn't even include the overwhelming middle eastern influence of Calimshan, Unther (not sumeria) and the Red Wizards.

IF your going to bitch about SJWs infesting the forgotten realms then you better go back in time to the eighties, when they started cramming different settings into abeir toril.

>>50040889
>and Polish.
To be fair, I wouldn't want to get near the Polish either. Have you seen what happens when you get a plumber angry?

Let's see what this thread holds...

>"Politics" means "views or lifestyles I don't agree with"
>Complaining about "SJWs" and "triggered", as if /tg/ were never triggered
>The presence of minorities makes something political
>Not conforming to some "common sense" notion of what medieval Europe was "actually like" is political
>"It's unrealistic that fantasy settings have black people"
>"All these gross liberal progressives with dyed hair and piercings and tattoos are just complaining about how problematic things are! [Nevermind that we're doing the same thing with a different set of values and jargon]"
>"You can't have a classical fantasy game with black people"
>"having PoC to a substantial degree means turning your back on LotR, Game of Thrones, King Arthur, and Conan!"
>"[A fantasy setting with robots, aliens, weird creatures, and public domain monsters] has always been inspired by Tolkien [in more than just aesthetics]!"
>"I was just trying to start a discussion"
>"if you disagree with me, you're an SJW lying about forced diversity"
>"I am completely ignorant of the historical baggage involved so I think my statement sounds reasonable even though it's clearly motivated by unconscious biases that I will refuse to acknowledge"
>People pulling out increasingly large numbers of minority characters, claiming some 40% to 80% of the average characters are black
>"You're strawmanning, but my strawman isn't made of straw at all!"
>"Those non-European things count as European because I'm a mental gymnast"
>"There are more black people because of ~politics~ [and this is bad because it makes me uncomfortable and scared]!"
>The SJW Cultural ̶B̶o̶l̶s̶h̶e̶v̶i̶k̶ Marxist conspiracy to breed out the white race, starts with more diverse fantasy games!
Am I missing anything?

>>50040648
I feel like I've heard the name Vargas before.
Is he a former namefag from years ago?

Bluerose

Beast The Primordial

A lot of RPGs are definitely slanted hard left though

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>>50041030
Possibly Luis-Scott Vargas if you play Magic.
Also, I made a mistake. His name is Varg, not Vargas. I don't remember the last name, but you can probably find him by Googling for something like "Varg burned down a church."
Anyway, I just finished this and thought it was relevant. This has been a pretty standard Myfarog thread, after all.

>>50041019
An attempt to seem like you aren't a raging sjw cuck

>>50041030
That's VirtualOptim, a significantly more pathetic loser. Varg Vikernes is a Scandinavian metaller convicted of burning down churches and stabbing another metaller to death.

>>50038291
>>50038312
>>50039151
The issue isn't /pol/ coming out of the woodwork, it's the easily triggered fa/tg/uys.

Here's your (you)

>>50040889
The chart is to point out exactly how similar the two sides are, even when attached to the narratives both the far left and far right present online.

>>50040785
> I force my political ideals on others through """"subtle"""" """moral""" """choices""" and reward them for playing into my own railroading

God it isn't even about /pol/ you're just a fucking awful DM

>>50041070
>a significantly more pathetic loser.
You know, once I found out how miserable his disabled NEET existence was, I felt a little bad for him. Except then I remembered how he took it out on all of /tg/ on a routine basis and I didn't feel bad anymore.

>>50041077
/pol/ has a population of dedicated shitposters that take it upon themselves to "redpill" (ruin) threads and boards

Most of them aren't even from here

>>50040785
You would hate me so much, and I would enjoy ruining your games.

>>50041107
Virt's a shithead but his spirit lives on in fucking garbage threads like these

>>50041116
Just like /tg/ has a population of dedicated NARPers that take it upon themselves to post (shitpost) threads and generals.

Most of them have never even read a splatbook.

>>50041133
It'll keep living on until you realize that virt was naturally occurring manifestation of the board, and not this unique boogeyman you make him out to be.

>>50038789
/tg/ is full of newfags nowadays.

>>50040163
but if you look all the way up you find me saying
>D&D was pastiche from day 1. but at the core resides tolkien-esque fantasy, aka mythical medieval europe. see Dragonlance, see Forgotten Realm. it takes this tokien-esque fantasy and puts in additional elements as spices.
it was never about 1:1 representation

>>50040184
it is cherrypicking because you're taking a fantasy-style which has turned to not be popular enough to warrant substantial continuation. instead we're having forgotten realms now.

>>50040132
yeah, no. faerun is still fundamentally not!europe. does D&D from any continent more than from europe? does it draw from any other era more than from late middle ages and renaissance? no.

you had the controversy around the monk class exactly because it doesn't fit the otherwise western theme very well.

>>50040208
pulp fantasy largely inspired by late MA/renaissance europe

>>50040224
no doubt: D&D also draws on other cultures. but it uses these elements only to spice up the european core elements.

>>50040229
knights, arms, armor, climate, architecture, fashion, western monsters. western classes (paladins, bards, druids, etc). quite honestly most of it is european.

the non-european elements are heavy sprinkles. that's it.

anybody who disputes that has a sub-70 IQ imo, tbqh.

>>50041065
What does MYFAROG stand for?
> "Varg burned down a church."
Oh shit, is this that crazy black metal guy?

>>50041068
Oh, I'm definitely a raging SJW, and I love watching people have sex. I don't really have a significant other, but if I did I'd watch 'em fuck someone. I mean, "can you fuck someone while I film it" is a bad way to pick up dudes, but still.

>>50041070
Oh shit, it is. Is he the one who ate that guy's brains?

>>50041077
>>50041116
The problem with "/pol/" is that the attitude of /pol/ and places like r/TheRedPill and r/MensRights has spread out and become the Alt-Right, which is currently gaining even more steam as a presidential candidate is only trailing a few points despite bragging about sexual assault. Because frankly a lot of people are afraid of change, and the last few years have seen a lot of social progress.

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>>50040229
>>50040241
princes of the apo

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>>50040229
>>50040241

>>50041222
>faerun is still fundamentally not!europe.
Apart from all those non-European cultures they based countries on.

>>50041229
>let me reveal how much of a /pol/tard I am!

Hint: don't admit to knowing the political thetoric so well.

>>50041229
You're not good either, you claim moral superiority but you're just as much of a psuedointellectual fringecuck as any alt-righter


There's no fucking neutrality

>>50041229
>/pol/ falseflagging this hard

Dude nobody would admit to being an SJW, not here

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>>50040229
>>50040241
out of the abyss

>inb4 that's not entirely european
never claimed it is purely europe, said it was pastiche with europe at its core. which continent's culture has the most influence on the illustration?

>>50041329
>D&D is Europe at its core
>Shows a piece of architecture that looks more Mayan than anything

>>50041329
>which continent's culture has the most influence on the illustration?
Warcraft.

>>50041329
Yes, it draws most of its shit from Europe ts not trying to be Europe in every expect.

>>50041348
That's pretty nordic senpai

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>>50040229
>>50040241
storm king's thunder. clearly a japanese settlement with all those pagodas.

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>>50040229
>>50040241
man, those bloody africa-inspired ice dragons.
rise of tiamat.

>>50041381
Funny you'll say that, since the same book also has the very distinctly Asian looking village of yakfolk. Or would that not fit your narrative as well?

>>50041410
Now your just strawmanning.

>>50040617
>Seriously, it started as a wargame.
as medieval wargame

wikipedia:
>An immediate predecessor of Dungeons & Dragons was a set of medieval miniature rules written by Jeff Perren.

>>50041410
Ah, that's right. I remember going on a trip to Belgium last year and seeing all those Ice Dragons. You're right, there're none in Africa but they're just all over the place in Europe!

>>50041019
>Strawman: The Posting

>>50041463
Yes and it then became something not really medieval and more pulpy. How is this hard.

>>50041376
exactly what i claimed to begin with, way up there in this thread.

>>50041420
my narrative is since my first post that it's pastiche with europe at its core. that fits my narrative exactly. to dispel my narrative you need to demonstrate that the european influence isnt essential to D&D OVERALL.

locally, it can be the case. you may even have campaign settings that are not europe. all of that fits with the pastiche depictation.

>>50041430
no, it's called sarcasm.

>>50041472
what i meant is that these dragons are clearly based in african mythology as europe never had such in tales and legends. also, the shield, the armor, the boat... all zulu-inspired imho.

again: sarcasm

>>50041489
yes

>>50041259
>>50041268
>>50041329
>>50041381
>>50041410
are not medieval/renaissance at all. the pulp you quote isn't based in middle ages europe at all. it just fell from the sky. or if it draws from human culture, it draws from all continents equally

sarcasm

>>50041568
Considering Dark Sun, Planescape, and many Oriental settings and suggestions about doing otherwise. I'd say it isn't.

>>50041568
AD&D has illustrations depicting multiple types of armors, clothing styles, and weapon styles that range from China, through India and mongoilia, through Persia, into Africa, and then Europe. And that's just the first edition of D&D.

You're completely and totally wrong.

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>>50041718
the claim that it has all these styles does not counter my 'pastiche with europe at its core' thesis. in fact, i would argue that it supports it.

which continent do you see more represented in this pic than europe, anon? 4E PHB, btw.

>>50041259
>>50041268
>>50041329
>WotC has forced black people into not!European game
>D&D wasn't originally based on not!Europe, it had a much broader influence
>FR et al are all based entirely on not!Eurole fantasy
>posts the original FR modules and setting artwork covers from AD&D 1e
>posts 5e art to prove D&D was always not!European
I think you just proved that D&D has gotten much more European-centric over the years and not less.

>>50041311
"Neutrality" seems to mean "presents both sides equally". And, you're right, I'm not neutral. The notion that I should be is ridiculous.

>>50041310
/pol/ is typically right wing politics. And also not really... wait, I didn't even use political rhetoric in that post, what?

>>50041323
I would. If for no other reason than it triggers all the people who claim to not care about politics.
Also, how is that false flagging when I'd say I'm being pretty reasonable.

>>50041479
Some of those are actual quotes from the thread. Others are quotes where I [interjected] to point out the idiocy.

>>50041259
>>50041268
>>50041329
>>50041381
>>50041410
>>50041463
>>50041568
The problem with this argument is that no one is saying that D&D doesn't look European. People are pointing out that the similarities between D&D and Europe more or less begin and end at the aesthetics. European locales are often the "default" for the majority American target audience to relate to, but it's mostly just the visuals, and mostly just the 'default' human cultures.
People are not arguing that D&D is not inspired heavily by some pop culture notion of medieval Europe. People are pointing out how fucking stupid it is to make the argument that because D&D looks European, then it's ridiculous for there to be black people so much as existing. People are also pointing out that D&D draws primarily from Europe, but a good half of what makes up the D&D oeuvre is also either completely made up or taken from non-European cultures.

Being more accepting of elves in a human city than humans of different ethnicities requires a stunning amount of mental myopia.

>>50041116

Because people like you take it seriously.

>>50041831
>D&D was always based on Europe
>but look at all this stuff from other parts of the world all over AD&D
>but 4e has European weapons! Thanks for proving my point!

>>50041831
.......can you be any more obtuse?

>>50041880
Also, a scimitar and a polearm that might as well have come from China.

>>50041831
Anon, you are literally arguing for white nationalism in a fucking fantasy game.

I get that you hate the niggers, but don't you think that maybe they should get to play a roleplaying game as well, and that maybe--just maybe--they should be able to play a character with an ethnicity corresponding to their own without it being a big Thing™ in setting that they're a foreigner?

Or are you one of those people who thinks that if you play a black or gay or transgender character that you should always be regarded with hate and suspicion, and that if Those People™ can't stand it, they should either play Normal™ characters or create their own game (which you'll likely bitch about being too racist for not having enough white people, like happened with Luke Cage)

>>50041870
Take what seriously? The cabal of assholes dedicated to ruining the internet?
Or the way the things they say and bitch about are indicative of things in the real world that actually affect people? I mean, let's ignore the presidential candidate who's the embodiment of /pol/; the attitude they espouse puts actual people's lives in danger. Like, the reason transgender people care about "bathroom bills" is because they're kind of at a high risk of being fucking murdered and would like that to happen less.

>>50041831
>4 entirely imaginary weapons
>scimitar
>naginata
>bows from two different continents
>3 versions of the exact same weapon
>one thing which isn't even a weapon
>European pastiche
Wat.

>>50041937
Wait, which ones are which?

I mean, the guy's not wrong. The weapons are clearly more European than anything else. But D&D being "default" European looking doesn't really make it the fantasy Europe that people like to argue that it is. Nevermind that Europe in general barely looked like D&D for real, there's also the fact that "it's based on Europe so that means black people can't exist but elves can" is ridiculous.

File: myfarogengagingmechanics.jpg (1MB, 2448x3264px) Image search: [Google]

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Myfarog sounds suspicious as fuck. Almost like some degenerate Norwegian trying to press his backass pagan shit as some sort of 'european' fantasy. Bullshit, get that barbaric shit outta my post-Roman Europe. Scandinavia was a snowy backwater of sniveling tribal level degenerates until St. Olaf (bless him) came along and bloody beat their tribalism out of them.

Anyone here claiming that Myfarog does a better 'European' fantasy than D&D is a stupid fuck who blindly eats this shit about some mystical 'pure' pre-christian Scandinavia as being representative of Europe. You know what Europeans thought about the Scandinavians? Backwater barbarians. A plague on society.

>>50038262
See, OP, THIS is why you don't make "funny" threads about /pol/ subjects. They're always retarded, and not even in a funny way.

>>50041905
It also shows again how bad the 4e art was, Jesus Christ.

>>50042097
> muh warrior heritage

>>50041936
There's more the one cabal of assholes ruining the internet, we're all just caught in the culture war crossfire.

>>50042097
>swimming modifiers
Oh man, I just need a mention of the typeface and two consecutive page-ten bumps and I've got a MYFARGO

>>50042097
>Cold Toughness SP
What? Also, why can't I wear a shield and a backpack? It's not like the shield is literally just hanging on my back like a backpack.

Also is MYFAROG an acronym, or what? I hate not knowing acronyms.

>>50042424
There are plenty of assholes ruining the internet. But the xenophobic and insular ones who loudly want to protect or strengthen the status quo are the ones who's voices are the loudest. #Gamergate actually set academic research into games back years, and SadPuppies ruined what was previously a decently respected award for writers of nerd fiction. I mean, they also made 4chan worse than it's ever been.
I mean, shit, they're even the ones shouting about the "SJWs" in the first place. I hear more about how terrible the SJWs are than I actually hear from the SJWs... and like I said, I am one!

>>50042480
These "D&D is too progressive" threads usually tend to barely get passed page 5 in my experience. Maybe it's slowed down because moms are making people get out of the basement and take siblings trick-or-treating?

>>50041019
How did you put strikethroughs in your post?

>>50041880
strawmaning. the original claim is "D&D is pastiche with europe at its core"

>>50041903
not an argument

>>50041936
>Anon, you are literally arguing for white nationalism
>white nationalism
full. on. retard.
can't handle that classical (tolkienesque) fantasy has white not!europeans at its core?
>>>t/umblr/

>I get that you hate the niggers
not at all. would play a black or arab dude in a fantasy campaign any time. played a black boxer in boothill 3E.
here's a hint though: if you are incapable of distinguishing between
>i dont want european-centric fantasy continents filled with 20%+ people of color
and
>i hate black people
you're a fucking SJW tumblrina

>they should get to play a roleplaying game as well
yeah, absolutely! but if we're playing tolkien-esque fantasy in the heartland of the setting (not!europe), they will belong a small minority in-game. they will be outsiders in these lands. there needn't be racism, don't get me wrong. but they will be like morgan freeman in robin hood.

>like happened with Luke Cage
no problem with luke cage, i watched the show. beowulf was more problematic. didn't get past ep 2.

>>50041981
>Wait, which ones are which?
you won't get a reply, it's liberally reinterpreted to fiot his narrative. these weapons are pretty european.

>doesn't really make it the fantasy Europe
no, it's not fantasy europe. but at the core are these tropes from mythological europe. also fashion, architecture, weapons, etc. druids and paladins. barbarians a la conan. and to this core authors have been adding elements from other cultures to spice things up. to provide greater variety. to make things more colorful and interesting. which is what somebody else here called pulp.

the heart (at least of FR) is still mythological europe

>>50042097
>Myfarog sounds suspicious as fuck. Almost like some degenerate Norwegian trying to press his backass pagan shit as some sort of 'european' fantasy.
bingo

>>50042280
friendly reminder that 5e recycles 4e art

ITT: Nu-Male hipsters and inbred /pol/acks shitfling

>>50042582
>the heart (at least of FR) is still mythological europe
But the most well known region is known for people wearing turbans, hot and dry weather, and people having curved swords.

>>50042544
Extra effort
http://fsymbols.com/generators/strikethrough/

>>50042582
>can't handle that classical (tolkienesque) fantasy has white not!europeans at its core?
Dude, Tolkien's work is filled with non-whites. They're just generally the villains, though not always. Your argument is basically "Tolkien did it so doing otherwise is wrong". This may surprise you, but most people don't give a shit about there being black people in the "traditional medieval European fantasy".
>you're a fucking SJW
You're damn right I am! But I've yet to see a "European-centric fantasy" filled with 20%+ people of colour. I wouldn't be surprised if D&D has less than 17% black people in its books, and that's about their percentage of the US.

>the heart (at least of FR) is still mythological europe
Which doesn't actually require it to be an ethnically homogenous place. Especially considering Europe itself wasn't ethnically homogenous.

>>50043082
>CURVED
>SWORDS

>>50040889
Hi Aspel

>>50043159
All the Easterlings, the Haradrim, the Druedain, and arguably the people of Haleth which themselves are one of the predecessors to the Dunedain aren't white.

There are no good easterlings because the ones who aren't buddies with Sauron don't get sent to Middle-Earth on the first place, and are too busy fighting wars of their own

>>50043495
Oh, and this is also missing the point of WHY the easterlings are so secondary to the West. The East was intended to be an amalgamation of European stereotypes about the ancient islamic world

>>50043535
That, and being irrelevant to the plot.

>>50042714
wooo a handful of recycled monster art. 4e's terrible art is in the PHB and DMG, and gets better with time.

>>50042518
>MYFAROG
MYthic
FAntasy
ROleplaying
Game

>>50038389
There is actually a setting for that...

http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Americana_(3.5e_Campaign_Setting)

Have fun.

>>50048487
I like fantasy Americana, but a lot of aspects of Americana are stupid tall tale bullshit. An axe handle hound isn't really an interesting monster to fight.

>>50038855
It also doesn't actually have rules to determine whether or not you make a hit in combat.

>>50048533
>Implying glorious Aryan men would ever miss against the mud races.

I was so happy when my so edgy friend bought all the Myfarog books just to find out they're barely even racist.

>>50048622
>Barely
I feel like you're going to have to elaborate.

>>50039504
It's okay so long as you don't mind your character being subject to however the people of the region treat outsiders.

It could be fun.

>>50039576
Yeah. Make them some kind of farming village in the middle of nowhere whose ancestors were explorers who got lost and ended up settling down and maintaining their native culture. It would be really neat to have a character from the previously mentioned village go to their ancestor's homeland and learn that it has changed greatly from the stories they heard told of it.

File: That's_A_Nice_Idea....jpg (29KB, 252x291px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50048562
>Implying the mu races would ever be able to hit the glorious Aryan men.

There is literally nothing wrong with MYFAROG. Mechanically it is fine, and all of the rules are modular and optional. Much like GURPS I feel like every just bashes on it due to memes rather than their actual experiences playing the game or actually reading the rules.

>>50048846
Well, just from looking at >>50042097 it looks clunky, cumbersome, and obtrusive. Plus the creator is apparently a crazy sociopath.

>>50049105
A lot has improved since first edition (Where that picture was from) up to the current version (2.6). And as the game states in the third page and on the back of the book the rules for swimming and sailing are entirely optional. Of course that would never come up in most situations. Again, you are arguing without having even read the god damn rules besides one of many tables.

>B-but the creator is a sociopath!
Yeah. Meanwhile /tg/ loves D&D and CoC despite Gygax's bizarre ideas of morality and Lovecraft's dislike of African Americans. That has very little to do with the actual game.

>>50049245
>you are arguing without having even read the god damn rules
Why don't you post some, then?

>>50049314
I can't, I only own the physical copy of 2.6 and no scanner worth mentioning.

>>50049325
So take photos.

>>50049331
Of the entire book? I'd rather not manually go through all 146 pages, especially with a cellphone camera's optics.

>>50049344
>I'm upset people are arguing about this system without reading the rules
>provide the rules? Get fucked
Back into the shill pit.

>>50049377
>I can't back up my own argument with any evidence
>I know, I'll call him a shill!
Well at least it is certain that you have no good reason to hate the game. I'm sorry that you expect others to do things for you.

>>50049245
>Meanwhile /tg/ loves D&D and CoC despite Gygax's bizarre ideas of morality and Lovecraft's dislike of African Americans
Like, you're perfectly right there (although Lovecraft himself didn't write CoC), but...
This guy burned down at least three churches and literally killed a dude, on top of being a white nationalist crazyperson who's far worse in his beliefs than even Lovecraft.

>>50049377
To be fair, he can't be expected to do that. Ideally people would just not talk about the game at all (or, I guess, buy it).

>>50049390
The only images of the game posted so far support it being a convoluted mess with no redeeming qualities whatsoever. If you want to show that it isn't, you have to provide proof of that.

>>50047090

Goddammit Norwegia, that is not how acronyms work, it's not even how portmanteaus work!

>>50049405
That isn't even the most recent version. 1st edition and 2.6 aren't eve compatible, so you may as well be arguing for a different game. If you want to show that the current version is 'Bloated' then by all means, go ahead.

>>50049429
>1st edition and 2.6 aren't eve compatible, so you may as well be arguing for a different game.
Prove it. Prove that the game has improved. Prove that there is any reason at all for anyone to continue to pay attention to you.

>>50049450
You never explained what was "Bad" about the game in the first place beyond a single out of context table. I can tell you that balance has improved a lot, aesthetically as well as they stopped using papyrus and really cleaned up the layout. They also added a lot of new content in the realm of monsters, skills, and equipment. Talents aren't nearly the end all be all that they once were, which makes the game much more manageable at high level play.

>>50049503
>I can tell you
But why should I believe you? You could be making this all up to make it sound better. Photos or GTFO.

>>50049584
Changelogs on the official website. are a great start. Photos can't summarize differences between reams of text among several different books. In the end you never posted any relevant evidence showing that the game is in anyway clunky, cumbersome, or obtrusive.

>>50049629
There are only really three results here:
The game is terrible, and you should post pictures.
The game is good, and you should post pictures.
The game is totally mediocre, the only reason anyone would care is Varg's name on the front, and we should all shut the fuck up about it.

None of these include going
>but guys, it's nowhere near as bad as you think, I won't post any proof though

>>50049503
http://www.metalsucks.net/2015/08/21/advanced-discrimination-dragons-critical-look-varg-vikernes-myfarog-rpg/

Look, the guy shouldn't have to post pictures if he's not able to. Stop asking that. No one is ever going to go through and take pictures of a couple hundred pages.

He should probably take at least a FEW pictures, but he shouldn't have to.

He could however use his words and explain why the game isn't garbage.

>>50049701
Yet you have shown no evidence that it is nearly as bad as you think it is, beyond a six year old photo of a table. It is just another baseless prejudice this board has I presume. I personally think that the game itself is neat. What really sets it apart is traveling (It lists The One Ring as one of its chief inspirations). It is set in the dark ages where there aren't convenient dirt paths between each town (Or more accurately convenient teleportation and flight spells), and surviving in the cold climate among savage creatures is actually something filled with tension. More people should give it a try instead of just meming.

>>50049713
>1st edition review
>GURPS and Shadowrun are bad games but Fate is actually a really good system because I like freeform!
How do these people take themselves seriously?

>>50049770
>More people should give it a try instead of just meming.
More people would if the MYFAROG defence camp actually posted anything resembling the rules. You don't even have to take photos, just type some of that shit up so we can actually have a look at it.

File: Opinions.jpg (38KB, 564x450px) Image search: [Google]

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>>50049790
There is a free preview on the Amazon page. I'm sorry that I don't have a digital copy on hand.

What I find appalling is that none of you have actually taken a look at it but all of you bitch and moan about it to the point that it sounds like you people have suffered through years of the game. Why is any of this warranted? Do people just want to sound cool by circlejerking over how much they dislike something on an internet forum?

>>50049770
He actually said GURPS and Shadowrun are clunky bloated games. Are you really saying they're good systems? Are you trying to say Fate is a bad system?

>Yet you have shown no evidence that it is nearly as bad as you think it is, beyond a six year old photo of a table.
You haven't shown any evidence that people's complaints are no longer valid. You haven't even shown evidence that you have the book.
You're just telling us to stop picking on the poor arsonist murderer white nationalist who dindunnifin.

>>50049818
>Why is any of this warranted?
Because the first edition was generally reviewed as crap, and people will assume the later editions resemble the earlier ones until shown otherwise.

Also because your posts seem similar to the 'it's not my job to educate you' shit that gets bandied about when a person knows their argument consists of balsa wood and a nice paintjob.

I can say SenZar isn't anywhere near as bad as its reputation suggests, but nobody's going to believe me unless I give some sort of explanation of how the system actually works.

You said the travelling rules were good, right? Explain how they're good, what sets them apart from other systems.

>>50049818
>Five star reviews literally complaining about the hate being "Cultural Marxism".

>>50049818
Burden of proof is on you in this one, shill.

File: Cohencidental Lines.png (2KB, 444x444px) Image search: [Google]

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>this thread
Hey guys, what's going on?

>>50049701
this

>>50049721
>No one is ever going to go through and take pictures of a couple hundred pages.
lel, newfag

>He should probably take at least a FEW pictures, but he shouldn't have to.
yes, he should. without it there is nothing to talk about here.

>>50049859
>He actually said GURPS and Shadowrun are clunky bloated games. Are you really saying they're good systems?
I have run SR 1E/2E for years. The system had issues but it isn't a bad system. I am a d100 guy though, thus it doesnt meet my requirements for good system.

Bumping. Sorry, I just had to get that MYFARGO.

Now let it die.