What system accurately portrays guns and has a wide selection

>>50011527
phoenix command, designed by nasa scientists
less accurate but less complex is Twilight 2000 2E. still fun though.
also, phoenix command exists as a less complex version in Aliens RPG, Terminator RPG, Lawnmower Man RPG, Dracula RPG, etc.

>>50011527
Shadowrun

>>50011527
what is the utility of having a wide variety in an RPG? I understand having a certain level of diversity, but the difference between an AR, a SCAR, and a FAMAS is largely irrelevant in a game played with dice.

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Accurately portraying guns is a lot of hassle.

Imagine having to track every bullet in the burst shot individually accounting not just for the weapon type, ammo type, weapon condition, ammo condition, shooter's skill, weather and other environmental factors but also for recoil of the previous bullets in the burst. Because that's accurate. Now imagine that for every character in shootout encompassing dozen participants.

>>50011527
Cyberpunk 2020 allows for some serious gun porn.

>>50011580
>Imagine having to track every bullet in the burst shot individually accounting not just for the weapon type, ammo type, weapon condition, ammo condition, shooter's skill, weather and other environmental factors but also for recoil of the previous bullets in the burst. Because that's accurate. Now imagine that for every character in shootout encompassing dozen participants.
it can be run at decent speed. i know because i have done so. just takes some GMing practice.
(i processed shots in batches of 3 though)

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>>50011527
>What system accurately portrays guns and has a wide selection of guns?

You so don't want to go down that road...

>>50011556
As this anon pointed out there's Phoenix Command which has a shit-load of detail. (Pic related - advanced and highly detailed damage location tables, etc.) And in addition to Aliens RPG / Terminator RPG, I think the combat system was used in Leading Edge Game's "Living Steal" SF RPG.

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>>50011614
I'd also agree with >>50011556 that for a reasonably manageable system without the potentially game slowing amounts of crunch that the Twilight 2000 series might well be a reasonable compromise.

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>>50011556
I'll check out Twilight 2000 then
>>50011560
I thought Shadowrun was a cyberpunk game with magic and elves
>>50011574
What's the point of anything in an RPG?Because people enjoy it.
>>50011580
I'm not looking for a simulator, I juat want something beyond Pathfinders "OK I need to roll a 14 to hit, I rolled 6+9 I do 1d12 damage, now I have to reload for an entire round and oh no I misfired because guns misfire sometimes LOL so fun!"
>>50011593
Cyberpunk isn't really my alley but I'll look at it
>>50011614
Yeah I don't want that level of detail.

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>>50011629
And there's the small press Post-Apocalypse RPG called 'The Morrow Project' that has a highly detailed firearms / combat system as well.

>>50011645
>I thought Shadowrun was a cyberpunk game with magic and elves

It is, and I can't speak for the current Shadow Run edition's combat system, but one of the older editions had stupid large D6 dice pools that were just retarded in action.

PC "I rolled 21 successes for firing my shotgun at point blank range!"

GM <rolling a shoe-box full of D6's> "Nice try, but the gang-banger you shot at rolled 25 successes to dodge."

> Cyberpunk isn't really my alley but I'll look at it
CP 2013 / 20202 - uses a straight forward mech system. Attribute ( value from 1 - 10) + Skill Level (0 - 10) + D10 roll (with 10s allowing addition D10 rolls to be added) all added together verse a basic difficulty level value - 30 being 'impossible / superhuman' or verse an opposed skill roll. Firearms are just plain brutal against typical 'average' human beings in CP 2020. Being shot with large-bore handguns is a great way to die quickly, never mind eating a burst from an SMG or an Assault Rifle. This game was an 'eye-opener' for many of my players used to D&D style hit-point RPGs.

> Yeah I don't want that level of detail.

I think that was the reaction many of us with experience with 'high realism firearms RPGs' were kind of expecting. It's not the kind of game most players / GMs want because high leathality and 'long term characters' don't really mix well together.

>>50011645
>yeah but I dont want that level of detail.

Make up your mind breh. Seems like you need to spend a little more time thinking about why you like to have loadsa guns.

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>>50011645
Twilight 2000 *2nd Edition*. It's largely compatible with the cyberpunk/horror/alien RPG Dark Conspiracy.

Shadowrun and Dark Heresy both have very good ranged combat rules. You just need to roll your own stats for modern guns.

GURPS

>>50011825
I should add that SR and DH are kinda live systems (well, at least SR is). Twilight has been OOP for many years, so it might be a bit rusty. But is a very fun career path character generation process.

Not sure if it's on mega or mediafire but you can check out the Twilight 2E Corebook PDF here:
https://www.uploady.com/#!/download/xlV_c6UE2iH/tZ0G17dCvp67J8U5

> or just google
> Twilight 2000 Core Rules v2.2 pdf

>>50011527
GURPS.

>>50011886

OP specifically said no GURPS. It's like GURPS shills can't even read the OP before they shit in the thread.

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>>50011527
Considering some of the later posts in this thread, it sounds like you're looking more for a balance of gamist and Simulationist, than pure Simulationist.
The wh40kRp system is actually pretty good for having a fast, lethal combat system, while having a lot of content to work with, I've been modding it for a while to use whenever I need a modern or sci fi system. There are threads here often that have many links and resources in the OP

Also it was the basis for the Halo "Mythic" RPG, which comes up occasionally here, but has an active subreddit where the most recent updates and books may be found

Hope this helps.

>>50012035
GURPS.

>>50012035
>shills

I think its more many GURPS fans are fed up of people who blindly swallow memes starting threads with 'I need an RPG for (thing GURPS is perfect for) but no GURPS!'.

>>50012083

I mean, some OPs could have said no GURPS for a reason. Maybe they don't like the system for whatever reason. Maybe GURPS touched them when they were little. Who gives a fuck.

The point is, OP said no GURPS, and we have shitheads like >>50012064 and >>50011886
wasting good posts on GURPS.

>>50012083
Just refluff PF.

>>50011527
d20 Modern.

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>>50011760
Yeah I remember hearing about those dice

That actually sounds great
>>50011796
Because I like having guns, I don't want to have to check 5 different charts every time I shoot and then 5 more every time I hit.
>>50011832
>>50011886
>>50012083
>>50012110
I just don't like GURPS, its way too front loaded for me.

>>50011527
And why exactly "no gurps"?

>>50012673
>>50012312
nvm, should've read whole topic first

>>50011527
Ops & Tactics

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>>50011651

There's also FGU's "Aftermath!", from the same era.

>>50011850
>But is a very fun career path character generation process

Not as random as Traveller, but doesn't really do civilian careers well. Which is reasonable, given the focus of the game.

>>50012961
Ah, the era of the D30. Heh!

>>50011527
GURPS.

With cyberpunk's system you can easily model the difference between an M16A1, a XM177, and a M4A1. Could also model the difference between a Colt Python with 1, 2, 4 or 6 inch barrel.

>>50013313
Does it give you downsides for longer barrels?

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>>50012981
>Not as random as Traveller, but doesn't really do civilian careers well. Which is reasonable, given the focus of the game.
for civilian careers, look at dark conspiracy.

>>50013422
twilight 2000 2.2/dark conspiracy 3E does: if you have the same initiative as an enemy (which happens frequently), the weapon with lower bulk goes first. pic related.

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>>50011527
Have I got the book for you.

>>50013574
Is a higher or lower Recoil stat more kick? And is the in game dollar worth approximately what modern dollars are?

>>50013687
higher is more kick, yes. you have a 1-10 STR attribute. you add up the recoil for each shot, every point above STR decreases your ranged combat skill (d20 based) 1-for-1. apparently the mass of the 29/21.3 supposedly decreases recoil.

prices are for the year 2000, roundabout, I think. seems to be fairly accurate for the 16.5 at least.

>>50011527
Honestly, GURPS has the single widest selection of real firearms I can think of. And, really, the whole thing is modular, just shove shit off you don't want. Otherwise, I'll advocate for Twilight2k, as not enough people play the game and it's legitimately good.

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>>50013658
Not OP, but thank you anon. This is fucking amazing.

>>50011527
Ops & Tactics

>>50011527
It isn't often considered for this, but Call of Cthulhu is fairly realistic when it comes to guns, especially when you can get your hands on the german Weapons Manual, which has rules for more then thousand obscure and common firearms.

>>50011527
rpg vault has a nice supplement for CoC called investigators weaposn which has loads of stats and extra rules for combat, gunsmithing and even acquiring firearms/licenses etc.

>>50011560
>Shadowrun
>Accurately portrays guns
>Wide Selection of guns


HAHAHAHAHHAA are you fucking dense mate?

>>50011645
>What's the point of anything in an RPG?Because people enjoy it.

At the level of abstraction that firearms usually operate in RPGs, the differences between an M4 and SCAR are minimal.

What authors should be getting autistic about is optics which have a greater effect, especially in the level of abstraction in most RPGs, on the shooter's ability to hit things.

Then when it comes to things like sniping, shooter skill in things like ranging, breath control, etc become in many cases more important than the platform used to achieve them.

t. /k/ommando

Is FGU's Merc any good?

>>50013658
>clips

>>50013422
In its vanilla version, CP2020 isn't that great. But using the given stats you can make it very realistic. Regarding barrel length, the main drawbacks of long barrels would be less concealablity and a penalty to fast draw (this would have to be homebrewn).

>>50017238
not him and my SR knowledge is a bit dated but it seems to me your posting in ignorance, dear sir.
SR simulates distance, recoil, gun attachments, visibility and a whole range of other factors. it's clearly on the simulationist end of things. if it's not realistic in your estimation, you only need to tweak a few numbers to make it fit your preferences.
as for the wide selection of guns... it already had that in 2nd edition. i dont suppose it has gotten any less now.

so, yeah, you should consider the possibility that you're a retard.

>>50017828
I genuinely believe this is bait

>>50017308
>wanting to load rounds one at time

>>50017028
Wait a what? And I've went and assembled my own... ah crap.

However, I went along and did a lot of math stuffs to calculate muzzle energy and transfer it in application to a more realistic damage spread IMO.

I'll try and find a link. I was reworking the entire thing and added stuff to the list since the last one I tossed online as the first version.

>>50019575
This is like the first version of what I did:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4U73lJ3zxF7ZXFHcGFqSUxGMjg/view?usp=sharing

As is this, this was an attempt to kinda bring it all together using photos, gun sites, books, and wikis so at least people know what they look like, how they work, how common they were, etc.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4U73lJ3zxF7YzRkekYwSzN2aDA/view?usp=sharing


Long way from being done, was making a pass on the latter document and noticed I missed firearms, or variants of firearms, a few more oddball cartridges, etc. So last I left it months ago, I was in the middle of putting it together and re-editing the spreadsheet with the new additions.

Anyways, feel free to use the spreadsheet in your CoC games if you want.

>>50019672
For those interested in the crunchy physics behind it:

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4U73lJ3zxF7Y3JjUmRyVTJESVU/view?usp=sharing

I tried to take common ball/FMJ loads on test barrels to calculate energy and then using the system mentioned in the bigger document assigned them risk against more common calibers I used as the "controls" and simply created variations based on muzzle energy.

>>50018969
Old /k/ meme, disregard.