MTG Magic The Gathering Ask A Judge -「 F R I D A Y I '

>>49997820
Does ydris give maelstrom wanderer triple cascade. Also good morning gA!

>>49998357
Yes- you can give more instances of Cascade to a spell that already has it, and as Wanderer himself lets you know, those multiple instances are not redundant.

Good morning to you too!

>>49997820
Why is Ludevic so awful?

>>49998376
The problem is that they did a bottom-up design for a U/R legend and slapped Ludevic's name on it. I agree with Maro that not every Legendary card is a top-down design, and I'm absolutely fine with bottom-up design, but Ludevic NEEDED to be top-down. Or at the very least, he needed to have his name put on a bottom-up design that actually matched him.

I play Ancient Excavation with an Alhammarett's archive in play and 5 cards in hand, how many do I draw and discard? What if I dredge 1 or 2 draws?

>>49998837
Alhamsandwich's Archive will replace each of the draws with "Draw 2". So you'll draw cards equal to twice the number of cards in your hand... and then discard a card for each card you drew that way. So still a net gain of -1 card (since you had to cast the Excavation), but you're digging twice as deep to decide what to keep.

If I get a card that is misprinted so badly it is not legal to play in tournaments, does Wizards owe me a replacement card?

Since sol ring was printed in kaladesh, are all older copies of sol ring legal in standard now?

>>50000399
Masterpiece sets are not legal in standard unless it is part of the standard legal set like the gearhulks.

>>50000334
No, but it might be worth more than a normal printing if it is a unique misprint

>>50000334
afaik, you can send it to wizard to get a replacement.

>>50000399
Sol ring was not printed in Kaladesh, but IS a part of the masterpiece collection

>>50000334
"Owe", no. That said, they're very good about replacing such cards.

>>50000399
Nope, because Sol Ring wasn't printed in Kaladesh. It was printed in Kaladesh Inventions, which is not Standard Legal.

>>50000399
I would love to cast Rashmi turn two in Standard.

1. What happens if I try to cast a spell I can't afford? For example if I tried to play the instant in the OP with only 2 mana. Does it fizzle and get discarded? Does it bounce back to my hand? Does the mana stay tapped?

2. Both the defending and attacking player have an opportunity to cast instants after attacks and blocks have occured but before combat is resolved, correct?

3. Can cards with summoning sickness be tapped by other cards (for example tap 3 elves, get mana etc.).

4. If I mulligan, do I shuffle the old hand back into the deck before drawing a new hand, or after?

>>50000334
Pics? I'm curious now.

>>50001659
1) You'll get to the 'paying costs' part, the game sees you can't do it, and rewinds to immediately before you began casting the spell. You'll empty the mana you did float from your mana pool, and un-do any mana abilities. Land =/= mana. Lands MAKE mana.

2) Combat doesn't resolve, but yes. After the Active Player declares all their attacks, both players get at least one round of priority before blocks. Then we move to the Declare Blockers step, which begins with the turn-based action of the Non-Active Player declaring their blocks. Then, both players will get at least one round of priority before moving to combat damage.

3) Summoning sickness stops the creature in question from attacking, or activating any ability with the Tap or Untap symbol as a cost. They can be tapped to pay other costs (such as Convoke, or Heritage Druid), though.

4) Before. You shuffle your current hand back into your library, present the randomized library to your opponent for a cut, and then draw your new hand.

If I cast a spell that has Storm after triggering Yidris, Maelstrom Wielder, Only the original spell has cascade, right?

What is the effective numerical value of cards like Lotus Bloom? For example, could i use Salvaging Station to return a Lotus Bloom from the graveyard to the battlefield?

What is your favorite colored artifact?

>>50004156
You would only cascade once, since cascade is on cast and storm copies aren't cast.
Anything with a mana cost of null has a CMC of 0, so yes.
Grindstone when I have Painter's Servant out.

How does lab maniac work in two headed giant

>>50004156
Actually, the copies do have Cascade because they're copies of the base spell.

But since they weren't cast, that doesn't do anything!

Lotus Bloom has a mana cost of null, but a CMC of 0, so a Salvaging Station can find it.

REAPER KING

>>50005578
If you go to draw from an empty library with a Maniac out, instead your team wins.

if i have reckless fireweaver in play and play panharmonicon do i ping for 2?
ETB trigger goes on the stack and panharmonicon sees it, yeah?

>>50006289
Yep! You ping for 1, then ping for 1 again.

is the end step considered "end of turn"?

>>50005744
What happens if both you and your teammate draw from an empty library and only one of you controls lab man

>>50010468
That'll depend on what you're asking. Some old things used to say they ended "At end of turn", which these days means "At the beginning of the end step". Some things say "UNTIL end of turn", which means until the cleanup step, which is after the End Step.

To see which wording an older card has, remember to check the Oracle text!

>>50011996
You still win. Maniac turns the action of "Would draw a card while your library has no cards in it" into the action of "Win the game". Further, in a multiplayer game, an action that says you win the game is to be treated as instead saying all of your opponents lose (only really matters with Grand Melee and limited range of influence).

So, your Maniac turns your draw action into "All your opponents lose". 104.2a says that a player still in the game wins that game if all of their opponents have left it, and this happens immediately. So your team immediately wins before SBAs can see that your teammate drew from an empty library.

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Did I buy a fake emrakul, or is it a printing error?

In multiplayer does finest hour trigger and give your team another combat phase or just you.

>>50012313

>modern masters 2

probably a printing error

>>50012329
If you're doing a shared turns variant like 2HG, it'll give you and your teammate(s) an extra combat phase after this one.

If you're not sharing turns (like in Star Magic), but just working towards a common goal, then it'll only give YOU one. Grok?

>>50012313
>MM2
def. a printing error

Let's say you have 2 Punishing Fire and Grove out, your opponent has an active DRS out. You tap the grove, triggering both PF. Do you have to pay R to return it when the trigger resolves, or do you pay R and pass priority, allowing the DRS to eat it?

>>50015034
You have to pass priority in order for the game to progress, so yeah it would probably get eaten

A player plays Chalice of the void X=1 and then a Phiting needle. His opponent realizes the problem during the next turn, after playing a couple of spells. What happens then?

Are replacement effects "actions" taken by players.

Like if a card would go to a graveyard but it would instead be exiled, does putting it to exile count as an action taken by a player? Specifically doing so during the middle of a spell resolving

>>49997820
What are you building on November 11?

Alright, I'm back from playing Commander and learning how to play Red Dragon Inn!

>>50015034
You pay as it resolves. Your opponent would have to pre-emptively eat one of them with Deathrite, and then you can just pay into the trigger for the other. There's no point between the actual paying and the card being returned to your hand where your opponent has priority to act.

>>50015249
Half right- you have to pass priority for the trigger to BEGIN resolving, but you pay as PART of the resolution.

>>50015417
An investigation is launched to determine if the player was cheating. If so, DQ. If it was an honest mistake, they'd be assessed Game Play Error - Missed Trigger, be issued a Warning, and play would continue. The usual 'fix' we have here of allowing the opponent to place the detrimental trigger on the stack doesn't really do anything here, since the spell is already resolved.

>>50015617
I'm not sure what you're asking here. Can you clarify?

>>50016183
Probably nothing- none of the Partner pairs or 4 Color commanders really make me want to build around them. I do have a fair few builds-in-the-making though, and I might try to get one of them ready before then.

>>50017896
I have no cards in hand and no cards in my library. I have a Sylvan Library in play, and elect to draw two cards when it triggers. What, aside from losing the game, happens?

>>50017896

For anyone paying attention the magic scene, i play miracles versus soldiers in legacy. on turn 4 i drop down moot, but on opponents end step turn 3 i played brainstorm and only put 1 card back on top. What happens?

>>50018480
Pretty standard DEC, unless you're found to have been eating cheetos.

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>Triggered abilities of the first won't see the second enter
>An ability that triggers on the first creature ETB may target the second creature
the actual fuck
is this not contradictory? please tell me how the first creature can't see the second, but somehow can

>>50018684
The first bullet is about abilities becoming triggered. The second bullet is about picking targets for triggered abilities. Also, you switched "first" and "second" in your first quote.

>>50018684
You're misreading it.
The first creature enters before the second. Hence it can see the second enter, but the second cannot see it enter.
However, both are entering due to the same spell, so anything that triggers has to wait for the second one to enter because the spell isn't finished resolving. Hence they don't even get to pick targets (if they're targeted) until both are in play and ripe for targeting.

>>50018268
You'll go to draw 2 cards and fail because your library is empty. Then, you'll select the one card you've drawn this turn (assuming you did draw one) and either pay 4 life or put it on top of your library. When SBAs are checked after this trigger resolves, you lose.

>>50018480
>What happens?
I remember that I wasn't at the event, nor am I the Head Judge for it, so I have exactly as much information as any other spectator. As such, I decline to speculate and allow the judges actually on-site to conduct an investigation.

>>50018684
They are not contradictory. First, you put out Thing 1. This might trigger something, but we're in the middle of resolving a spell, so the trigger politely waits. Then we put out Thing 2, which may trigger. That trigger ALSO waits until we're done resolving this ability.

By the time those triggers go on the stack, both creatures are out, so Thing 2 could target Thing 1, or vice versa. And Thing 2 entering might TRIGGER Thing 1 (like if you found a Soul Warden for the first creature, and a Grizzly Bear for the second)... but it can't happen the other way around, because they come out sequentially. If the first creature I hit is a Grizzly Bear, and the second is a Soul Warden, I won't gain 1 life from the Bear, because the Warden wasn't on the field to trigger when the Bear came down. Grok?

So I am going to the Grand Prix in Denver in December. I usually just play kitchen table Magic with friends, mostly EDH, Draft, and Modern. It has been a long time since I've done any real tournament play outside of pre-releases.

What do I really need to be on top of, and what do I need to look out for to make sure I don't get into any trouble or get disqualified other than "Don't be a jackass."?

What's the great deal about smuggler's copter ?

>>50019395
Well the only ways to get DQed are Bribery (offer something in exchange for a match result, or a match result for a price, such as "Scoop to me and I'll give you 3 packs", or "I'll scoop to you for that foil Akroma"), USC - Cheating (duh), Stalling (playing slowly on purpose to eat up time), Theft of Tournament Material (also duh), Aggressive Behavior (further duh), or Improperly Determining A Winner, which is basically "using anything but Magic to determine the winner of the match". THAT'S the one to watch out for, since the other ones pretty much all require you to know what you're doing. Don't offer to roll a dice or flip a coin or whatever to determine the winner, even if time runs out, and if your opponent offers something like that, call a judge immediately.

Are you going to be playing in the main event, or side events?

>>50019420
T1 1/1, T2 Looterscooter, T3 crew the scooter and begin doming for 3 in the air while filtering your draws. It curves well while helping provide you a constant stream of gas.

>>50019441
>>50019395
Expanding on my question:

There's the Main Event of a GP, which is the big tournament, and then side events. Sides come in two flavors: scheduled events (which are here! http://www.grandprixdenver.com/#schedule ), and on-demand events. ODEs are pretty much what they sound like; you can sign up for them whenever you want, and as soon as they have enough players (8 for the Draft/Modern/Standard/Sealed, 4 for Commander) the event fires. Those are pretty much constantly going.

Now, MOST of the Scheduled side events (and all of the on-demands) are going to be Regular REL; the same rules enforcement level as a prerelease, FNM, or a Modern Monday type tying at your shop. Basically the same thing, just held inside a way bigger venue with a dozen other similar 'events' happening all around you. I think some of the bigger Scheduled events might be Competitive REL (same as the main event), but I'm not sure; best to check with the helpful staff at the sign-up booth as to what REL a specific event will be.

So, if you're thinking you'll be hitting up something like the Super Sunday Series, or the Main Event, I'd be happy to go into more detail about Comp REL; if you're planning on mostly doing the Regular REL stuff and casual games, just think of it like playing at your shop and you should be fine.

>>50019441
>>50019509

I am actually going to be doing to main event. I'm still putting together a deck (probably going to be doing Gruul Energy) but it's the only big event that feasible to go to so I figure it's worth a shot. Worst outcome is that I learn I have more to learn about Magic, anyways.

>>50019622
worst outcome is actually that you get mugged, all your magic cards stolen and then raped, but nice dubs

>>49997820
If I use torrential gearhulk and target lightning axe, do I have to pay the additional 5/ discard a card to use it?

>>50019509
So, here's some basics, in that case.

1) Keep your deckbox clear of anything that's not your deck, sideboard, or tokens out of your deckbox. It can be easy to slip in a card you bought from a vendor until you can put it away, and then get tagged with a Game Loss since it'll be treated as part of your sideboard during a deck check.

2) Communicate as clearly as you can. Verbally confirm every life total change. Clearly demonstrate awareness of your triggers, etc. A lot of Judge calls are two players not able to agree on things (hell, "Failure to agree on reality" used to be an OFFICIAL CLASS OF INFRACTION), and clear communication nips a lot of that in the bud.

3) Make sure your decklist is 100% accurate, and full. Don't annotate or abbreviate card names, because that can cause trouble. Make sure your full name and DCI number are on it (I recommend using decklist.org). Maybe even make a backup copy just in case, and try to have it finalized before the event- I've given out so many Game Losses for someone fucking up a last-minute decklist change that I've lost count.

4) If anything seems remotely fucky in your game, call a Judge. It's always in your best interests to get a Judge involved ASAP when something doesn't seem kosher, rather than letting it snowball.

That's about all you need to know to avoid penalties, other than "Play correctly". If you had any other questions, I'd be happy to address them!

>>50019997
Yep. Gearhulk just lets you duck the mana cost; you're still left paying the tab on any additional costs.

if creature that has equipment/auras on it gains shroud do the auras/equipment fall off?

>>50020365
Nope! The only part of an Equipment that ever targets is the actual Equip activated ability, and Auras only target when cast as spells.

>>50020453
what if instead of shroud the creature gains protection?

>>50020655
Now that'll fuck things up. Protection has four parts. Something with Protection from White, for example, cannot be:

D amaged by white spells, white creatures, or abilities from white permanents

E nchanted, Equipped, or Fortified by white Auras, Equipment, or Fortifications

B locked by white creatures

T argeted by white spells, or abilities from white sources.

D E B T. The "E" is what's important here; a white permanent cannot legally be attached to something with protection from white. If your creature were to gain an appropriate protection, any Auras or Equipment that fall under that category fall off. This is why things like Spectra Ward and Pentarch Ward have the little line that keeps them from making themselves fall off- because if they didn't have that line, they WOULD fall off.

>>50020714
ok thanks

>>50020746
>>50020714
This is also why Tower of the Magistrate is fun for fucking with Voltron.

>>49998412

What's the difference between the two design processes? I've heard the terms tossed around but never really got them

>>50020994
Top-down is when you start with the flavor, and make the mechanics fit. Bottom-up is when you start with the mechanics, and then try to make the flavor fit.

For example, you could say "I want to design Werewolf cards". You need a way to mechanically have them change from 'normal' to Werewolf, and you decide on a card with another card on the back of it- at "night" (designated by nobody having cast a spell that turn) they change to Werewolves. During the "Day" (when 2 or more spells were cast last turn, representing people being wakeful), they turn back.

On the opposite end, you could have come up with the idea of double-faced cards that change back and forth, and needed to paint that with something flavorful, and decided on "Werewolves", because that's something that changes back and forth between two forms.

So yeah, that's the basic. Top-down is the mechanics being designed to fit the flavor; bottom-up is the flavor being designed to fit the mechanics.

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>>50018856
>soul warden x bear
>in the middle of resolving a spell, so the trigger politely waits
aight i think i get that. so if i had a verdurous gearhulk and a bear it wouldn't matter which order they came down in, the greenhulk could place counters on the bear because that trigger waits til divergent transformations is resolved, yeah?

also yes i was misreading it my bad >>50018767 >>50018853

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>>50020859
buddy does that unequip already equipped equipment? if so you are a dick eater

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what happens if i cascade a 0-cost spell like mana crypt?
do i just exile the entire library (therefore revealing all cards to players) then randomize aka shuffle the library? can i just cut out the middle man and not shuffle?
what happens if i cascae a 1-cost spell like mana vault? same story?

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>>50012272
>only really matters with Grand Melee
i'm guessing that's the name of a format i don't know

>>50023293
> do i just exile the entire library (therefore revealing all cards to players) then randomize aka shuffle the library?
yes
> can i just cut out the middle man and not shuffle?
no, they get to see your deck in full.
> what happens if i cascae a 1-cost spell like mana vault? same story?
If you don't have any 0 mana spells in your deck, like ancestral vision or something similar, then yes the same happens.

>>50019891
>your magic cards stolen and then raped
cards can be raped? is this a figurative thing anon

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does this boy reduce Surge costs? specifically wondering if I can Anticipate for U and then Crush of Tentacles for 2UU and get the octo

Why can't the rules manager get rid of fizzling?

Does it have to do with auras?

>>50024187
i think the term means 'is countered by the game rules'
in the same way that graveyard means 'discard pile'

why would they want to get rid of it?

>>50024187
????
What do you think should happen to a spell that resolves when none of its targets exist?

>>50024228
Because it's not intuitive.

The only reason they haven't done so already is because figuring out how to do so has proved to be a nightmarishly difficult task. The specifics beyond that are unknown to me.

>>50024284
It'd be nice to still draw a card if, when I cast electrolyze and only target one thing, regardless of if that target is still around when the spell tries to resolve.

I have Kalitas in play, my opponent has 3 Grizzly Bears. I cast Anger of the gods. Do i get the zombie tokens?

>>50024308
Its unintutive, but I feel that it adds enough tactical depth to the game that occurs pretty frequently to earn its stay. Not saying its the best rule or that you are wrong for disliking it, but I think its worth the slight bit of obscurity it lends to the game.

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>>50024403
>kalitas is a 3/4
>anger of the gods deals 3 damage
kalitas survives that, yes you get the tokens


>if he has taken damage or had a p/t reduction this turn
you control both Anger and Kalitas, so you stack the triggers/replacement effect for 'this goes to exile'. simply put Kalitas' on top so that you get the zombies
yes, you get the tokens unless you don't want to

top tip: kalitas can boost his own toughness by eating zombies or vampires, this can help him survive

>>50024478
You don't control the triggers, the opponent will surely stack kalitas at the bottom and let anger exile the bears.

>>50023358
No, the preson will literally rape your magic cards.

>>50024403
If two replacement effects happens at one time, IE anger of the god exile instead of going the the graveyard, and kalitas exile, instead of going to the graveyard, your opponents gets the choice of which replacement effect happens.

Now the cool thing is, you can ask your opponent, "so I get 3 zombies?" If he says yes, you do, but if hes smart you probably wont.

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I have 2 counters on an untapped magistrate's scepter and Atraxa out, and move to end, and proliferate, giving it 3. Can I activate it during my end step and immediately take an additional turn?

Also, regarding EOT plays: if I flash in a shimmer myr during my opponent's EOT, can I flash in an additional artifact which normally doesn't have Flash as well? Or does shimmer myr resolving take up any priority I had during end step?

Does blight steel replacement cause cosi trickster to get a +1+1 counter

>>50022108
Correct. Even if the Hulk came in before the Bear, by the time you're selecting your targets the Bear is a valid one.

>>50022165
It absolutely does. Makes all their Equipment fall right off.

>>50023293
In effect, you will reveal your entire library card-by-card to your opponent, then randomly put it on the bottom of itself. It's not technically a shuffle (so it won't trigger things like Cosi's Trickster). You can't "cut out the middle man" because your opponent gets to see all the cards.

If you cast a 1-mana spell, you'll wheel until you hit a 0 mana spell, or have shown your entire deck, same as the 0 mana scenario.

>>50023313
It's basically big-ass multiplayer games where there's enough players that more than one of you are taking your turns at a time (denoted by a Turn Marker), and you can only really mess with the people seated immediately to your left or right.

>>50023991
Yep! As long as you're casting an instant or sorcery, you get a discount. Doesn't matter if you're using the 'normal' cost or an alternate one, you get the mana discount if applicable.

>>50024187
As I recall, it's because "fizzle" is intended to mean 'countered on resolution due to no legal targets' but there's other definitions (incorrectly) used widely enough that it was confusing slang. It'd be like if a large amount of people suddenly started to use the term "mill" to mean "exiling cards from your graveyard".

>>50024228
Technically I'm not sure how long it's been since "fizzle" has been an official term, if at all.

>>50024403
Yes, because your Kalitas lives.

IF Kalitas would eat it from the Anger, that depends on how stupid your opponent is.

>>50024422
"Unintuitive" is something they actively try to avoid lately.

>>50024501
There are zero triggers involved in this situation.

>>50024545

>>50024545
Absolutely. There's no timing restriction baked into it, so you can activate it anytime you have priority, as long as you can pay the costs.

Also yes for Shimmer Myr. After it resolves there'll be another round of priority, and you can use yours to flash in another artifact.

>>50024907
You're shuffling a library, so yes.

>>50025232
Does it matter whether Kalitas lives or not?

>>50025678
Actually, it doesn't and I am a sillypants. Sorry!

Basically, you get Zombies if your opponent is stupid enough to let you. Since it's their creatures dying, they choose which replacement effect to apply to that event: Anger, or Kalitas. You don't have to explain that to them (because knowledge of the rules is a skill we reward), but you can't lie to them. General consensus on this topic is that just saying "Zombies?" or moving to put them out is fine, because allowing you to have them -is- a choice your opponent has, and if they know they can prevent it, they'll just say "Uh, no? I'm gonna exile them to Anger's replacement effect."

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I'm a bit new and not sure I understand how the legendary thing works.
Could I use Saheeli's Artistry on Padeem to make an artifact clone of him? I assume this would kill the normal Padeem, but is he a valid target to begin with?

>>50026454
Absolutely. If it wasn't intended to be able to target Legendary things, it would say "Nonlegendary".

You can absolutely use Artistry to make an artifact token copy of Padeem, and then choose to put the original in the graveyard and keep the token copy.

>>50026454
The current legendary rule is that if at any time you control two or more instances of a legendary creature with the same name you immediately choose one instance to keep and place the rest in your graveyard. This effect happens as part of state based effects being checked so you do not get a chance to respond, the extra legends are not sacrificed (but they do die). Also note that this rule only applies per player, not to the whole board so two different players can each control a Padeem, but no single player can control two or more.

So yes, you can make a copy of a Padeem with Saheeli's Artistry, once the copy enters play you get to choose which one you want to keep.

>>50026510
Legendary Permanent, not just creatures. And State-Based Actions, not Effects. Otherwise spot on.

>>50026535
this is why you're the judge and I'm not

>>50026510
>>50026487
Thanks, exactly how I hoped it worked - but needed to make sure!

>>50025245
So cosi trickster doesn't trigger only on spells or abilities that cause shuffling, but replacement effects too?

>>50026956
If actually instructed to shuffle (as in, using that specific word), it'll trigger Trickster.

If a spell like traumatize or an ability causes a player to put the top X Cards into their graveyard from their library and a creature generates a replacement effect that would instead shuffle it back. Do you resolve the whole spell or ability then apply the replacement effect?

>>50028142
You do that either way. "Mill 20" does not mean "Mill 1, 20 times", even if people tend to put the cards into the graveyard one at a time. It means put all 20 into the graveyard all at once. So even if a Colossus was the second card down, you finish counting out however many you're supposed to be milling, THEN shuffle it back in.

>>50028184
And if a replacement effect would occur for drawing you would immediately take that action because draw 3 is draw 1, 3 times?

>>50028267
Correct. Drawing multiple cards is explicitly to be treated as multiple events of "Draw a card", repeated.

If I have a Black Lotus and an Island on the field with nothing else, and I want to play Thoughtcast, can I do it? When I start casting, I have 1 artifact so it costs 4 but if I sac the lotus to pay for it it should suddenly cost 5, right?

>>50028694
You can. You lock in costs before you generate mana to pay for them, and by that time your Thoughtcast's cost is locked in at 1U.

>>50028709
>is locked in at 1U.
Don't you mean 3U?

If I activate a circle of protection's ability 3 times successively, does it prevent 3 instances of damage, or just one 3 times? (2 instances of prevention being redundant)

>>49997820
I am at 3 life in a 3 player game of EDH. I have an Oblivion Ring that exiled Opponent #1's JTMS. Opponent #1 disenchants the Oblivion Ring and the leaves the battlefield trigger goes on the stack to return JTMS to play, but in response to that trigger, Opponent #2 Lightning Bolts me and I die.

I believe my Oblivion Ring trigger on the stack is exiled upon my death and JTMS does not return, is this right?

>>50029223
Correct.

>>50025809
>General consensus on this topic is that just saying "Zombies?" or moving to put them out is fine,
If player B says "why the fuck you asking me?" then what is the correct response from player A?

>>50028725
I did, my mistake!

>>50029002
It'll prevent 3 instances of damage, because once you apply one of the three prevention effects you created, the other 2 don't have anything to apply to.

>>50029223
Correct.

>>50030172
Smartest choice is to just drop the angle-shot and say "What's going to exile your creatures- Kalitas, or Anger?" and lose your bonus, but not stray into the territory of cheating.

>>49997820
If I activate Insolent Neonate's ability, discarding Grave Scrabbler, paying Grave Scrabbler's Madness cost, will Insolent Neonate be in my graveyard when Grave Scrabbler's ETB trigger happens, letting me put it, (Neonate) back into my hand?

>>50031131
First, you announce that you are activating Neonate, and put the ability on the stack. Then, you pay the costs in the order of your choosing. At the point where you discard, Scrabbler shunts itself into exile because Madness. Then, the Madness trigger goes on the stack above Neonate's ability. As that trigger resolves, you may pay 1B to cast Scrabbler. Then it'll come in, trigger, and Neonate is long-dead by now, so is very much a legal target.

>>50031196
Thank you very much good sir, you are a gentleman and a scholar

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>>50031240
I try.

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Does Dense Foliage alow creature cards in graves, hands, libraries, and exile to be targeted?

>>50032151
Yes. The oracle text mentions "creatures", not "creature cards". It's a creature on the battlefield, a creature spell on the stack, and a creature card everywhere else.

>>50032151
Yes, otherwise it would specify it

>>50032151
Yes. When something refers to a permanent type, it just means when they're PERMANENTS. It doesn't do anything to creature cards or creature spells.

>>50032263
To be fair, the Oracle text is the same as the printed text, except it says "Can't" instead of "cannot".

>>50031131
>>50031196
Just a minor pedantic addendum, it works in this situation because insolent neonate's ability has you sacrifice it as a cost so by the time the ability's trigger goes on the stack, the neonate is already in the graveyard. If the ability was worded like 'discard a card: sacrifice insolent neonate, draw a card' then it wouldn't work since the neonate wouldn't go to the graveyard until the ability resolves, by which time the scrabbler would already be on the battlefield (or graveyard if you don't pay it's madness cost). Again, a very pedantic distinction since to my knowledge there are no cards in the history of magic that work like that outside of some convoluted combination of multiple cards/effects.

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"The spell will be countered even if Lunar Force can’t be sacrificed, most likely because it has already left the battlefield. Casting a spell in response to an opponent’s Lunar Force’s triggered ability is generally a bad idea."
Does this mean that I can cast something like Rescue to bring Lunar Force back to hand before I would have to sacrifice it? And that if an opponent casts multiple spells onto the stack, they'll all be countered?

>>50032594
Sure, you could do that.

And yeah, if an opponent is stupid enough to cast multiple spells in a row with Lunar Force on board, it'll trigger for all of them, but they'd pretty much have to be explicitly doing that.

>>50030211
>What's going to exile your creatures- Kalitas, or Anger?
but then player B realizes that player A was trying to con them and feels that A is untrustworthy now for trying to sneak one through

Hey gA, if I cast Prime Speaker Zegana while Thassa is out, and Zegana's devotion would turn on Thassa, will Zegana enter with five counters?

>>50033296
She will not, because Thassa is not a creature immediately before Zegana enters, which is when that replacement effect applies.

>>49997820
What's the most convoluted board state a player can get into?

..I'd like to have a little fun at my LGS.

>>50031271
Another question regarding Grave Scrabbler
If I Faithless Looting, discarding Grave Scrabbler and Insolent Neonate, paying Grave Scrabbler's Madness cost, will I get to use it's (Scrabbler's) ETB trigger on the Insolent Neonate?

>>50033777
Sure. The Neonate is discarded to the graveyard at the same time the Scrabbler is discarded to exile. It's in the graveyard waaaaaaay before the Scrabbler's ETB needs a target.

>>50033785
Again, thank you very much, kind sir.
This isn't a rules question but, in your opinion, can B/R Pauper Madness be a decent deck?

>>50033826
Dude, I don't know how to actually PLAY Magic. I Judge because I'm a terrible player!

>>50032369
>To be fair, the Oracle text is the same as the printed text, except it says "Can't" instead of "cannot".
Yeah, that's my bad. I habitually ignore the printed text on anything with an old frame.

If I were to exile Ancestral Vision with Spell Queller when they attempt to cast it after its counters are removed, can they cast it when Spell Queller leaves the battlefield?

>>50034023
yes

>>50033482
commander with lotsa people

>>50034023
Sure. They're casting it for the alternate cost of "Free", same as they do out of Suspend.

if i have the new Bruna as a commander and flip it into Brisela does it still count as my commander?

>>50034241
Yep!

in multiplayer if i use card that makes my opponent reveal their hand does he only reveal it to me or all the players?

>>50034652
If it says "reveal", it's revealed to everyone. If it just says "look at", only you see it, but you're free to tell everyone the contents of the hand. Or not.

>>50034693
Aaand bedtime.

>>50034693
am i free to tell everyone the contents of my own hand? can i lie about my library?

>>50035267
Ah, hell, one more. Yes to both.

There's three kinds of information in Magic (only two at Regular REL): Derived, Free, and Hidden.

Free information is information to which all players are entitled full and accurate access. This would be the name of any visible object, the type of any counter in a public zone, the status (tapped/flipped/attached/phased/transformed) and current zone of any object, life totals, poison counter totals, the current game score of this match, the contents of each player's mana pool, the current step/phase and which player is active, and details of current and past game actions that still affect the game state. If asked for any free information, a player must surrender it fully and accurately.

Derived information is information to which all players have ACCESS, but which opponents are not obliged to assist in determining. If asked for Derived information, you don't have to answer, but any answer you give must be truthful- though it need not be FULL. You can say when asked of a Vampire Nighthawk "It's a 2/3 flier" and not mention the Deathtouch; the answer you gave was accurate, just not complete. Derived information is the number of any type of objects present in any game zone, all characteristics of objects in public zones not already defined as FREE information, and Game Rules, Tournament Policy, Oracle text, and any other official info pertinent to the tournament. If an opponent asks you for derived information, you can decline to provide it, but you cannot hinder them from determining it themselves.

Anything that doesn't fit into those two categories is automatically Hidden/Private information, which you can lie through your fucking teeth about.

The contents of your hand is Private Information. You are free to volunteer it to your opponents, and you're also free to lie about it (you just can't lie about the NUMBER of cards in hand).

BEDTIME

>>50035348
>the name of any visible object
So if I ask my opponent what brand of watch I'm wearing, and he gets it wrong because it's a cheap chinese knockoff, does he get a game loss?

>>50025232
I know what fizzling means. That doesn't tell me why getting rid of it is too difficult of a task for the rules manager to accomplish.

>>50036881
Don't fix what's not broken.

>>50035579
You're the kind of person who forces rule 100.6b upon your opponent when you mindslaver them

>>50036881
Because too many people use it to mean something else, and it's a lot easier to stop 'supporting' an unofficial term that causes confusion than it is to get thousands of people to use it "correctly".

If a creature has a replacement effect that determines it's power and toughness on entering the battlefield, do other creatures entering the battlefield at the same time affect that creaturea P/T

>>50038725
stack

>>50038725
I'm not sure what you mean. The only cards I can think of that have a replacement effect that sets their P/T have nothing to do with other creatures.

Did you have a specific card in mind?

Can you Remand /Unsubstantiate a copy of a spell? Say, I copy Treasure Cruise with Riku, of Two Reflections and my opponent casts Remand. Can the copy be targeted and "returned to hand" (but not really because there's nothing there and the copy only exists on the stack)

I'm like, 90% positive you can, but my friend argued that because there wasn't anything to return, it doesn't work and the spell fizzles. I told him he was wrong, and also a fucknugget. I just need clarification.

>>50039041
Absolutely. Would your friend argue that you can't cast Path to Exile on a token because tokens can't exist in exile?

What happens is the copy of the spell is returned to your hand, where it ceases to exist once SBAs are checked. Same thing that happens to a non-card copy of an object that's shunted to any zone where it oughtn't be.

Is there always a cleanup step? Or just when there's something to be done during the endstep like thawing glaciers and discarding to handsize.

>>50039091
Thanks. And yes, he did argue once that PtE can't hit tokens. He's an idiot, but a lovable idiot.

Also, I heard there was some unofficial format based on the lore and flavor of the cards, Do you know what that's called or anything about it? Im sure my friend would be very interested.

>>50039114
during the clean up step*

>>50039114
There is always a cleanup step. That's where marked damage is wiped off of permanents, "Until end of turn" effects have their durations end, and you discard to your max hand size. Even if none of those things need to happen this turn, there is a cleanup step. The only steps that are ever skipped naturally are the Draw step of the first player's turn during a 2 player game, and the Declare Blockers and Combat Damage steps if no attackers are declared (or are put onto the battlefield attacking)

>>50039120
KANGAROO COURT

Basically, it requires however many people are playing, and then also one more to act as the Flavor Judge. You can appeal to the Flavor Judge to challenge anything that doesn't make thematic sense (for example, casting Remove Soul to counter Soulless One), or to propose something that's not allowed by the rules, but that you think makes flavor sense (like arguing that Pin to the Earth should remove flying). Your opponent will get their chance to argue against your point, and then the Flavor Judge makes their ruling.

if i give a creature persist with cauldron of souls, does it retain that ability when re-entering the battlefield?

>>50039785
It does not. Once it dies, it becomes a new object with no memory of, or relation to, its previous selves. When it comes back, it won't have Persist, because it doesn't normally have Persist and nothing is currently granting it that ability.

>>50032594
In regards to this card, if I play opalescence to turn it into a creature, then put assault suit on it, does it just counter my opponents spells for the rest of the game/until a piece is destroyed?

>>50040456
Yep! The countering of their spell isn't tied to the sacrifice happening. If that portion of the instructions is impossible to carry out, the game just shrugs and moves on to the next instruction.

>>50040476
>it works
WERE BUILDING HANA BOIZ!

>>50039153
Do you find that KANGAROO COURT works best when the flavor judge is well-versed in magic or has no fucking clue?

>>50041384
Either or. A person who doesn't know anything about Magic will be ruling purely off of "what makes sense", but knowledge of the rules doesn't preclude someone from being able to do it, either.

>>50038568
I'm not talking about stopping the term from being used or changing how it is used. As far as I know, most people already use the term "correctly". What I care about is the rule. I want to draw a card if I cast electrolyze and both my targets become no longer legal.

>>50044058
Well, there's a nonzero amount of things that would break. It's also incredibly unintuitive for a spell that has no legal targets to still resolve.

>>50044110
I'm disagree about the unintuitive part, but what I was asking about the breaking thing. What gets broken? The only thing I came up with is Auras, as I'm under the impression that if they didn't fizzle if their target is no longer legal they would enter the battlefield and could then attach to anything.

>>50044209
Well if ALL we change is the targeting thing, the Auras would still go to the graveyard because there's a rule that tells us what to do with Auras if they're entering the battlefield with nothing to enchant.

I can't honestly think of specific things off-hand that would break, but with how vast Magic is I'd say there's a better chance it would, than would not, break something to change a fundamental rule like that. And I respect your dissenting opinion, but I'll have to stand by mine. Having a targeted spell still do stuff without any legal targets doesn't make intuitive sense; I've seen players confused that a spell with SOME targets still resolves.

I have mindless automaton equipped with skullclamp. CAN I still remove the two counters to draw a card?

>>50044603
Sure; it still has two counters on it. It's a 3/1 because of the Skullclamp, but that doesn't "turn off" the counter; it's still there. You can still pay the cost of removing the two counters, giving you a net gain of 3 cards.

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>>50044209
A huge part of the reason why spells would start to get broken if they removed the "fizzle" rule is due to another rule.

Whenever a spell ability would instruct you to do something, and you cannot do something, you try to complete as much of the effect as possible. For example, if somebody mind rots you and you only have one card in hand, you still have to discard it even though you cannot discard two cards.

Why does this break the game? A lot of spells were designed with fizzling as a sort of safety net. It's intuitive that casting chaos warp on a permanent should only shuffle a permanent into the deck and then reveal the top if and only if the target is still legal. Guess what, if chaos warp couldn't fizzle, then the spell would still try to execute all of its possible effects. Hell, you could target a permanent with multiple chaos warps and they would all try to resolve. This mess could be avoided by adding countless "if you do" clauses to spells, but the current templating is much cleaner and easier to understand.

"If you do" clauses wouldn't even successfully clean up all of the templating issues. Thousands of spells would need functional errata and I don't mean simple errata like "dies" and "enter the battlefield" errata with the m10 rule changes. Many cards would end up looking ridiculous the way animate dead looks with its current oracle text compared to the printed text.

>>50044665
While I do strongly feel fizzling is counter intuitive, I'm not sure where it stands compared to the "if you do" clauses. More importantly, I suspect adding "if you do" clauses while making the rules change is against WotC's current errata policy.

Thanks for the example of a card that would get broken!

>>50037755
i'm afraid that i don't understand

>>49997820
Bump

>>50047880
>100.6b Players can use the Magic Store & Event Locator at Wizards.com/Locator to find tournaments in their area.

When you control another player's turn you get to make all choices for them, so I assume you can make them use the Wizards Event Locator to find tournaments in their area.

At least, gA has never denied it, so it must be true.

Say I have Lumbering Falls and Nissa, Vital Force out. If I activate the lumbering falls into a 3/3 Hexproof, then target it with Nissa's +1, do I get an 8/8 Hexproof?

Likewise, if I target lumbering falls with Nissa's +1 during my turn, can I pay the 2UG during my opponent's turn to turn the 5/5 into an 8/8 Hexproof?

>>50050664
1. it will become 5/5 hexproof
2. it will become 3/3 hexproof

>>50050664
Nope. Nissa doesn't give it +5/+5, she sets the base P/T to 5/5. That overwrites the 3/3 from Falls' own animation effect, so it'll be a 5/5 Hexproof with haste.

Similarly the other way; the Falls doesn't give itself +3/+3, it SETS itself to 3/3. If you use Nissa on an unanimated Falls, and then activate the Falls during your opponent's turn, you'll just shrink it from a 5/5 to a 3/3 and give it Hexproof.

If i have psychosis crawler and Arjun, the shifting flame out. will Psychosis crawler die if i play a spell and wheel.

>>50050794
>>50052348
Ah right, thanks. That makes sense.

>>50052370
Nope! Your Crawler will very briefly be a 0/0 during the resolution of the trigger, but that doesn't actually matter. SBAs aren't checked during the resolution of spells and abilities, only afterwards, and by then your Crawler has been restored to "Not 0/0"

>>50052401
cool thank you.

If a crewed vehicle dies and someone has a Grave Betrayal out, does it come back as a black Zombie Artifact even though it's not a creature, or does it not become a Zombie because that's a creature type?

>>50053089
It'll come back (in black), but it won't be a Zombie. The "I am also a Zombie" effect EXISTS for it in layer 4, but because it isn't a creature it doesn't do anything. When you go to animate it later, that effect wants to apply, but can't because it isn't a creature, and then it becomes a creature from Crew. So it'll still be Black, but not a Zombie.

Does combustible gearhulk deal damage if Rest in Peace is on battlefield?

"When Combustible Gearhulk enters the battlefield, target opponent may have you draw three cards. If the player doesn't, put the top three cards of your library into your graveyard, then Combustible Gearhulk deals damage to that player equal to the total converted mana cost of those cards."

>>50053728
It'll still dome. RIP will make it read

"When Combustible Gearhulk enters the battlefield, target opponent may have you draw three cards. If the player doesn't, exile the top three cards of your library, then Combustible Gearhulk deals damage to that player equal to the total converted mana cost of those cards."

Gearhulk's blast to the face doesn't require that the cards hit the graveyard. They're also still going to a public zone, so the trigger can still figure out what the summed CMC is.

>>49997820
Hey Judge -

I ultimate Saheeli, fetch Blue/Red/Black-hulks.

They all ETB at the same time, but I choose are the triggers resolve, correct? So, I could order it this way

Black/Blue/Red on the stack. So it would resolve, Red/Blue/Black, correct?

>>50053813
All three triggers fire simultaneously, and since you are the controller of the triggers you can put them on the stack in the order of your choosing. Note that you'll need to select targets as the triggers are put onto the stack, so you won't be able to have Torrential target a card an opponent mills via Combustible.

>>50053856

Ah, so if I wanted to shoot my Red gear with the Black one, I can do that, but just have the black hulk resolve last?

>>50053868
Technically you can do it in whatever order you want, since nuking the Gearhulk doesn't stop the trigger.

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>>50053882
Thanks man. That was how I figured this all work, though I didn't realize the bit about not being able to target the milled cards with Bluehulk. Thanks!

>>50053122
If you crew it later on will it become a zombie once it becomes a creature?

>>50053911
Nope, because timestamps. The Zombie effect wants to apply first, but it can't because the thing's not a creature, and that's the end of that. It doesn't re-apply itself later after the car gets crewed, because it's BELOW that type-changing effect in layer 4.

the way renegade frieghter is worded confuses me. does the +1/+1 go away at the end of the turn along with the trample or does it stack up every time?

>>50054156
It gets "+1/+1 and trample" until end of turn; it doesn't get +1/+1, and also Trample until end of turn. It's very rare for cards to 'accumulate' permanent upticks in power and toughness from resolving a spell or ability. Usually we use counters for that, because it's easier to represent visually and not lose track of it across multiple turns, whereas non-counter boosts are either temporary (like this, or Prowess), or are in the form of a static effect (like Gaea's Anthem) that you can easily SEE.

Also, I have to run for a bit- back in... oh, an hour or so?

>>50054156
It literally says +1/+1 and trample until end of turn, it doesn't even have a "as long as x is a creature" clause. Please read the card

>>50054180
There's no need to be a jerk about it. I can see exactly what confused him- someone that's not well-versed with Magic and Magic terminology could easily think the "+1/+1" is a separate thing from "and trample until end of turn".

>>50054179
the confusing part is the "and gains" which makes it seem like the "gets +1/+1" and the "gains trample until end of turn." are two separate functions of the same trigger. thanks for the clarification.

>>50054180
no need to be so rude about an ambiguously worded card, anon.

>>50054259
Like I said, I see where you were coming from, and how someone who's not well-versed with the rules could think that verb distinction was important. It's a lot easier to teach people when you understand where the confusion comes from.

In the context of dependencies, can you give an example of one effect changing what another effect does to the things it applies to, and an example of one effect changing the text of another effect?

Artifact, Creature, Enchantment, Land and Planeswalker are all the permanent types in the game ?

>>50055890
You know, I can't off-hand, but let me see if I can crowdsource one.

>>50056862
Correct. The other card types you'll actually see in a game are Tribal, Instant, and Sorcery; Instants and Sorceries aren't permanents, and Tribal can technically appear alongside any other card type, but in practice is only on non-creature, non-land cards.

>>50044110
gA i've noticed both you and maro use the term 'nonzero'
is it a rules thing or is it not unusual
i've never heard anyone say it

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>>50058793
>Is it a rules thing or is it not unusual

what can i do to build a reliable yidris manabase with minimal fetches? not a fan of shuffling but i would like a consistent experience also

>>50058935
Building a reliable 4 color manabase without fetches is gonna be difficult. Your best bet is to go nuclear on lands that can make multiple colors (like the tri-taplands), but the majority of those are gonna come in tapped, and that'll slow you down. Your other option (or side option) is to use his green for mana ramp and fixing, but that also gives you a nonzero amount of dead (or dead-ish) cheaper spells to Cascade into.

If you want to avoid fetches because of a cost reason, I'd look into budget 5 color manabases and just adapt from there, and/or choose a "main" 3 colors to focus on, and kinda "splash" the third. If it's just "I don't like shuffling", either see previous solution, or realize you'll have to choose between your comfort zone and your deck performing better.

>>50057116
>tribal creature - goblin
what if

>>50058985
aight cool i guess i'll just get over myself and shell out the $100 or whatever for fetches. i don't have big hands so a 90-card shuffle is a bit inconvenient but like you say probably necessary.

i don't have any of the necessary fetches that don't come in the precon except evolving wilds, do you think khans fetches would suffice? i do have a set of the relevant BFZ lands that i can fetch with them
>polluted delta
>bloodstained mire
>wooded foothills

i don't know anything about the ZEN fetches except that they're enemy coloured so i'd want UR, UG and GB. would those be expensive to grab and would it be worth to run all six plus evolving? i'm new to this as i've only ever played 2 color commanders i appreciate your advice

>>50059723
>Tribal creature
Technically possible, but pointless. The point of "Tribal" is to allow creature subtypes on noncreature cards, so it's a bit redundant on a creature.

Khans fetches are fine, but they get better if you have shocks to find. I'd advise sticking to the on-color Khans fetches and relevant shocks, and save the ZEN fetches for a later day. They're good, but you'll get more benefit from your money with Khans + Shocks as a first purchase.

>>50059816
okay i'll go with that
>current price ~110 usd for 1 each of the 3 fetches and 6 shocks
not a bad guess >>50059723 and i suppose i can fit that in the budget this month and call it a christmas gift to me

looking forward to the c16 decks, i'm going to run atarka/kolaghan/silumgar and lodse charms/commands and call it a deck

Noob question,
If a spell destroys both a creature equiped with that equipment that let you draw 2 cards when the equiped creature is killed and said equipment, does the artifact triggers and let the player draw cards?

>>50060366
If it says to destroy them at the same time, or the creature and THEN the equipment, your Skullclamp will trigger and draw 2. If it says to destroy the equipment first, you won't draw 2.

>>50053934
>jump in your dragster
>it turns into an undead horror
>turns back as soon as you jump out
>fug, its haunted

If only it worked like that

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>>50061458
If only.

>AND ROUNDING THE CORNER IN NUMBER TWO, THE "CREEPY COUPE", IT'S THE GRUESOME TWOSOME: STITCHED SKAAB AND VOLDAREN DUELIST

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My buddy Gave me some banding cards, can someone explain them to me without me having a stroke?

>>50062116
So, let's say you're attacking with some Banding dudes. You can put as many Banding dudes (and up to one without!) as you want into a "band". If any one member of that band is blocked, the whole band is blocked by those blockers. So what's the use in making your stuff EASIER to block?

You get to choose how your opponent's creatures assign damage to your band. What's more, you don't have to assign lethal to one creature before moving on; if you attacked with a band of 10 2/2 creatures and they blocked with a 10/10, you could have it assign 1 damage to each of your creatures, killing none of them. Or if you had a band that included Stuffy Doll, you could FORCE them to deal all the damage to Stuffy Doll.

Banding works similarly on the defense; you don't declare bands for blockers, but if something with Banding is blocking, you choose how the blocked creature assigns damage among the blockers. So if you blocked the same big 10/10 beater with a 1/1 banding creature AND a 1/1 indestructible, you could force them to assign all 10 damage to the indestructible blocker.

tl;dr it makes you High King of Combat Math.

>>50062555
>Cup O' Phasing

If my opponent has a Saheeli out and uses -2 on a creature, and I respond with a kill spell, what is the exact description of what happens?

I'm honestly not sure what happened at my last FNM but a handful of rather experienced players had an argument about being unable to stop the targeting of the ability because "planeswalkers are different with regards to the stack", but it felt like both sides of the argument had no idea what they were talking about.

Does my opponent get a token? Did I break priority by attempting to kill the creature in response?

>>50062824
no token for them,
it's the same as casting something like Saheeli's Artistry and you doom blading in response. without a target it does nothing
you did the right thing re the stack too

>>50062824
When a planeswalker is played the Active Player retains priority to activate it, either adding or removing loyalty counters. It's effect then goes onto the stack, which you can then respond to. If you removed the creature that the 'walker is targeting, then the effect will fizzle. If I am incorrect the GA will correct me, but I'm 99.99...% sure that is the way it works

A permanent of mine enters the battlefield, causing its ETB ability to trigger. I select an opponent's Dryad Arbor as the sole target, but another player Doom Blades the Dryad Arbor in response. The trigger resolves and I sacrifice my permanent.

What was the name of my permanent?

>>50062555
So if my opponent attacks with a band and I block with a band, does that make the least interesting combat phase ever where we just apply damage to our own creatures and (probably) nothing dies?

>>50062824
The ability goes to resolve, but has no legal target. The rules of the game counter the ability and none of its effects happen.

Planeswalkers are not "different with regards to the stack"; the closest thing I can think of is that after a Planeswalker spell resolves, unless it entering the battlefield triggered something, your opponent (as Active Player) has priority to activate one of its abilities before you can windmill slam a Bolt. This is why someone can play a Jace and +2 him right away to put him out of Bolt range, but that has nothing to do with Planeswalkers being 'different with regards to the stack'.

>>50063558
Gilded Drake.

>>50064490
More or less. You pick how his creatures assign damage to yours, and he picks how your creatures assign damage to his.

If I use G0b Dark-Dwellers t0 cast Galvaivic B0mbardmeivt, h0w much damage d0 I get, 5 0r 6? S0rry fr the l335sp33k, my keyb0ard's shit itself.

>>50066523
Well, that depends on how many other Bombardments you have in your graveyard.

The Bombardment pulled out of your graveyard via Dank-Dwellers will not be IN the graveyard, because it's on the stack. So if that was your only Bombardment, you do 2. If you had 2 Bombardments, the one you cast will do 3. If you had 3, you'll do 4. And if you had 4, you'll do 5. The only way you can do 6 is if you somehow had 4 Bombardments in your graveyard AND one on the stack resolving.

>>50026510
I have a question about the Legendary Rule. Does it trigger abilities that activate when a creature dies?

Example: Tolsimir Wolfblood is equipped with Thornbite Staff. I already have a token out. I make a new token. Since I have to sac one, will Tolsimir untap, and allow me to do it again?

I feel like I'm overthinking it, but I need to make sure.

>>50066827
You don't sacrifice anything, but yes. The Legend Rule says that if at any time, a player controls two or more Legendary permanents with the exact same name, they choose one of them to keep and simultaneously place the rest in the graveyard. This isn't a destruction or a sacrifice event, so it won't trigger things like Savra, but it does count as 'dies', because 'dies' just means 'is put into the graveyard from the battlefield'.

>>50066841
Great. Thanks, gA.

>>50066827
>>50066841
One thing GA didn't mention is that it's not a trigger, and doesn't go on the stack. It's a state based action/effect/whateverdafuck. It just happens, so you can't respond to it. I think

>>50066966
Would it trigger stuff like Fecundity?

>>50067014
The oracle text says 'dies' so according to GA,, yes

>>50067014
Yes, because that's a creature dying.

>>50066265

Thanks for the clarification.

I have Saproling Burst out. It leaves the Battlefield with 5 counters on it and I stifle the trigger/my tokens have indestructible, do they stay as 5/5s using 'last known information' or do they become 0/0s?

So let's say I have a repeatable, but breakable, cycle that can generate any number of mana I can think of.
Let's also say I have a sink for that mana, like that new UG merfolk from Comm16. I want to use him to crap out all my lands and then draw the rest of my deck.
Can I just shortcut that by saying I generate enough mana to do that or do I have to specify an arbitrary number and then keep track of what I have left?

>>50068861
LKI is only if the game needs to know something about a card that is no longer where it is expected to be. There is no Burst for them to be checking, so the number of counters is 0, so they die. Same as Gutter Grime.

>>50069408
Technically, you can't shortcut it. To propose a shortcut you have to be able to tell me exactly how many loops it'll take to get to the exact end state you desire; you can't do that in this situation.

PRACTICALLY, since this will never come up in a sanctioned game, I'd see no problem handwaving it to "Yeah, sure".

>>50069450
>LKI is only if the game needs to know something about a card that is no longer where it is expected to be. There is no Burst for them to be checking, so the number of counters is 0, so they die. Same as Gutter Grime.
Huh. Then why does it even have the trigger for when it leaves? Looks like a lot of unnecessary words just for the edge case of having an anthem effect out.

>>50069483
Probably just because it might not feel intuitive that they're 0/0 without the thing out.

>>50069408
As GA said, you have to know the exact number of loops for a shortcut.
What you can do though is say "Loop this a trillion times to generate a trillion mana" and then just spam your fishman until your deck is gone.

>>50069576
Eh, yes and no. In a 'real' event that would get you tagged with Slow Play pretty quickly because you're trying to manually advance a loop you can't shortcut through.

In a not-real event, fuck it, just explain what it is and why you'll eventually hit the right configuration and jump ahead.

>>50069628
>you're trying to manually advance a loop you can't shortcut through.
Couldn't you just decide you'll always scry to the top and flip the top 50 or so? That wouldn't take very long, barely longer than drawing those 50 normally.

>>50069694
Still not something you can just shortcut.

What's funny is if you can infinitely scry 2, you CAN shortcut it.

>>50069715
>Still not something you can just shortcut.
Sure, but it wouldn't take a long time so no slow play warning.
>What's funny is if you can infinitely scry 2, you CAN shortcut it.
Why?

>>50069741
Bubble sort. With Scry 1, you can only ship one card to the top or bottom at a time, so you can't really move them around properly. With Scry 2, you can do a bubble sort. You still don't know the MINIMUM number of loops needed to do it, but you know for a mathematical fact that by doing a bubble sort your specific configuration will EVENTUALLY happen after X loops, so you just say "I'm going to do this X times". You may be going over, but you can tell me the exact number of loops you're doing and the exact end state of the game when you get there.

It's been debated a bit, but general consensus is "infinitely scry 2 for a bubble sort" is shortcuttable.

>>50069779
So if you can scry 2 infinitely, does that mean you can shortcut to stack your deck?

>>50070111
Basically. I'd have to dig up the math on it, but with a Scry 2 you can just perform a bubble sort of your deck, so by just saying you do it some ungodly number of times you can shortcut it (like say it will 'only' take between 200 and 400 iterations of the loop; just say "I do this 500 times")

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>>50053773
So it wouldn't deal any damage if the gearhulk controller was enchanted with this?

>>50070779
I'm fairly certain it'll still work. The cards aren't going to a public zone, but you're still revealing them, so the game knows what their summed CMC is.

>>49997820
Do Brago's Representative and Ballot Broker do the exact same thing? If so, why hasn't the oracle text been erratted to be the same?

The way I see it, there is a way to interpret the wording such that if they are both in play together, you get 4 votes. This is only reassured by the fact that the oracle text is different.

Brago seems to imply +1 votes (get an additional vote when performing the vote action)
Broker seems to imply x2 votes (it implies you perform the vote action twice)

I'm sure that what I described is NOT the case, but I'd like a second opinion in case this comes up in a commander game.

>>50072714
Representative gives you an extra vote, period. So you vote two times, whether or not you want to.

Ballot Broker says you -may- vote an additional time, so you can just vote once if you want to. I'm guessing "You may vote an additional time" just flowed better than "You may get an additional vote".

>>50072747
Oh okay. Thanks man.

>>50072855
No worries- it took me a minute of looking them over to see if there was a reason beyond "We forgot we used this effect before with different wording" or errata.

>>50058793
It's a very common term in Math and CS stuff. Since MTG is Turing complete, it is sensible for the term to show up.

>>50072977
Fun fact: A disproportionate amount of judges are CS or programmers.

>>50073060
To be fair, the rules read more like programming than like law.

>>49997820
I'm attacking with Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet and my burn opponent has rain of gore. What happens?
I say I don't lose life, he said I do

>>50073934
You are correct. Rain of Gore does nothing against lifelink because you're not gaining life from a spell or ability, you're gaining life from damage being dealt.

My opponent has Mikaeus out and triskelion. HE attempts to go off but he has heartless summining out. So undying does not trigger when he removes the counters because triskelion is a 0/0 and is put into the grave with a 1/1 counter right?

>>50075961
Correct. Once he gets it down to 1 counter it'll die to SBAs before he can activate it to remove the last counter, so it had a counter on it when it died.

Does emerge affect a cards colour identity?

>>50076075
It does.

>Sneak Attack on battlefield
>Activate it, sneak a Purphoros in
>I don't have enough devotion to red to make it a creature

Do I still have to sacrifice Purphoros at the beginning of the next end step?

>>50076146
Yes

>>50076146
Yes. Rule 201.5 tells us that if an ability of an object (for example, the delayed triggered ability Sneak Attack sets up) uses a phrase like "This [something]" to identify an object, where [something] is a characteristic (creature, in this case), it is referring to that exact particular object, even if it doesn't have the appropriate characteristic at the time.

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>>49997820
So if I sacrifice this dude to Disciple of Bolas, do I just discard my hand at the end, or do I discard first then draw 4 cards?

>>50076286
You'll sac it to the resolution of the Disciple trigger, but the Mindslicer trigger won't go onto the stack just yet. You'll finish resolving the Disciple trigger, then SBAs are checked, THEN Mindslicer's trigger is put onto the top of the stack. So you'll draw 4 and gain 4... then discard your hand.

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>>50076319
I see, thank you.

This question was answered in the EDH thread, but I need clarification. Does Ezuri trigger his Experience Counter if a creature like Reyhan or Kalonian Hydra ETBs, or does it not?

>>50076399
No dice. Those creatures have replacement effects that modify the way they enter; they don't come in as 0/0 and then get their counters, they come in WITH the counters. There's never a moment where your Kalonian Hydra has hit the board but is still a 0/0.

So I know that Panharmonicon doubles Imrpint etb triggers, but can you explain to me why I can cast both exiled spells for 2 and why it isn't just the more recent one?

Also can you explain why Oring can exile something with pro white or shroud when I tutor it with Zur, I know enchantments only target on the stack but can you please explain how it all works.

Sorry for weird questions

How does MTGO handle the resolution of Jace, Architect of Thought's -8 ability?

>>50076028
Wouldn't the Triskelion survive because Mike gives him +1/+1?

>>50076467
Because CR 607.3 says that if one of two linked abilities refers to a single object as "The exiled card" and the other ability has exiled more than one card (usually by way of being copied), the first ability refers to EACH of the exiled cards, and if the first ability performs an action on 'the exiled card' (for example, creating a copy of it in exile and giving you the option to cast said copy), it performs that action on each of them.

Imprint if weird.

O-Ring absolutely cannot exile something with pro-white or shroud when tutored by Zur. You're either mixing that up with O-Ring being able to hit Emrakul 1.0 (Since it doesn't target as a spell, which is what Emrakul has protection from), or the fact that Zur can cheat AURAS directly onto things with Shroud/Hexproof (Because Auras only ever target when cast as spells; if put directly onto the battlefield, they simply enter attached to something they can legally be attached to. This does not get around protection)

>>50076597
I have absolutely no idea. My guess is it would give you a 'window' for each player's library, let you exile a card from each, and then cast them in the order of your choosing.

>>50076601
Yeah, I just overlooked that like a doof. The -1/-1 from Summoning and the +1/+1 from Micky Micky You So Fine cancel each other out, effectively.

If I hit a kiln fiend with a searing blaze with a landfall trigger, and in response my opponent uses apostle's blessing on said kiln fiend, what happens?

>>50076754
what do you think happens?

>>50076946
I'd say kiln fiend gets to live but he still takes 3, since there were 2 valid targets when I cast the spell. Then again I'm 100% intuitive regarding rules
and life

>>50076704
Could you explain the Zur one a bit more please?

When a card like mantis engine activates its ability to get lets say first strike. Does first strike become a static ability until the end of turn?

>>50076754
The damage to the Kiln Fiend doesn't happen because it's an illegal target, but since Searing Blaze still has one legal target (your opponent), it resolves and does all it can. Fiend lives, your opponent takes 3.

>>50077037
So, Auras only target when they're cast, as spells. If an Aura is put directly onto the battlefield, it's not a spell, and it's not cast; you just put it onto the battlefield, attached to your choice of legal things.

So, if you use Zur to fetch out an Aura, it's being put directly onto the battlefield. It never needs a target this way, because it's not being CAST; you just put it onto the field attached to something it can legally be attached to. Shroud and Hexproof only stop TARGETING, so if you put an Aura directly onto the field with Zur, it's 100% legal to choose an object with Shroud for it to attach to.

>>50077039
It gains the static ability "First strike" until the end of the turn, yes.

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how does the timing on this card work?
let's say the opponent has an Electrostatic Pummeler and I target that with this card and it exiles a 2cmc card
>do they need to pump before the card is revealed?
>do they need to pump before i declare whether i'm casting or exiling?
>can they pump after i declare that i'll leave it in exile to have Spark deal 2?
or is that part of the resolution of the spell like Harnessed Lightning you don't need to say how much energy you'll spend?

>>50072747
It came up in our draft once or twice that you won't always want to use that extra vote with council's dilemma, something you almost never wanted to do with will of the council.

can i draw 2 cards if i cast a zombie spell from my graveyard using Gisa and Geralf while i control a river kelpie?

>>50079893
he has to decide to pump before you exile the card, because exiling the card is in resolution. And once you're in resolution, you stay in resolution until it's done, no state baseds no opportunity to respond. Even triggered abilities have to wait until post resolution to be added to the stack.

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>>50081628
holy shit that seems like a bad time for the electrostatic player
>yeah it could be a land
>but it could also be a galvanic bombardment

>>50081598
yes
>G&G says 'cast'
>cast the zombo, draw card from kelp
>zombo enters, draw card from kelp

>>49997820
Is that a reference to the Cure?

>>50079893
Once you begin resolving the spell, nobody can respond. Their last chance to respond to your Spark is after they know your target, but before you exile the top card of your library. They can't wait to see what the top card is and THEN pump their creature.

>>50079905
I figured that's what it was- with Will of the Council you always want more votes to push it towards the choice you like. With Dilemma, you might not want a 'bigger' version of either option.

>>50081598
Nope. You draw one- you cast the Zombie from your graveyard, but it didn't enter from your graveyard. It entered from the stack.

>>50081682
>Kelpie
Incorrect. It didn't enter from the graveyard, it entered from the stack. It has those two triggers so you'll draw from casting a graveyard spell OR cheating a graveyard permanent onto the board; it doesn't give you two for casting a creature from the bin.

>>50082423
Nah, after naming all my decks after songs I decided to do it with my threads.

Does transforming trigger ETB abilities ?
Does the newly transformed creature get summoning sickness ?

>>50084017
Generally, no. The creature isn't entering the battlefield, because it's already there. You're just changing what it looks like.

What happens if an Enslaved creature gets back to its master thanks of Homeward Path?

>>50086140
Not a ton. The Enslave stays on it, it stays under the control of the owner, and during the Enslave's controller's upkeep, the un-stolen creature will ping its owner for 1.