Give me your best weird, obscure Judaic lore. If you can source

The concept of Golems is Jewish.

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>>49980295
Well huh. This is an odd thread for 2am.

I have always loved the story of the Oven of Akhnai.

>If a man made an oven out of separate coils of clay, placing one upon another, then put sand between each of the coils, such an oven, R. Eliezer declared, is not susceptible to defilement, while the sages declared it susceptible.

>It is taught: On that day R. Eliezer brought forward every imaginable argument, but the Sages did not accept any of them. Finally he said to them: "If the Halakhah is in accordance with me, let this carob tree prove it!" Sure enough the carob tree immediately uprooted itself and moved one hundred cubits, and some say 400 cubits, from its place.

>"No proof can be brought from a carob tree," they retorted.

>And again he said to them "If the Halakhah agrees with me, let the channel of water prove it!" Sure enough, the channel of water flowed backward.

>"No proof can be brought from a channel of water," they rejoined.

>Again he urged, "If the Halakhah agrees with me, let the walls of the house of study prove it!" Sure enough, the walls tilted as if to fall. But Rabbi Joshua rebuked the walls, saying, "When disciples of the wise are engaged in a halakhic dispute, what right have you to interfere?"

>Hence in deference to R. Joshua they did not fall and in deference to R. Eliezer they did not resume their upright position; they are still standing aslant.

>Again R. Eliezer then said to the Sages, "If the Halakhah agrees with me, let it be proved from heaven." Sure enough, a divine voice cried out, "Why do you dispute with R. Eliezer, with whom the Halakhah always agrees?"

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>>49980350
>Rabbi Joshua stood up and protested, "The Torah is not in heaven! We pay no attention to a divine voice because long ago at Mount Sinai You wrote in your Torah, 'After the majority must one incline'."

Rabbi Nathan met the prophet Elijah and asked him, "What did the Holy One do at that moment?" Elijah said, "He laughed with joy, saying, 'My children have defeated Me, My children have defeated Me.' "

>>49980317
Is there any neat stuff about Golems aside from the instructions in their heads? And the fact that they're basically big stompy robots.

>>49980350
That's perfect! Got any more? Thanks anon.

Look into Kabbalah, the Jewish school of mysticism. The sephiroth, the tree of life, a bunch of trippy descriptions of celestial beings. Really cool stuff.

Also phylacteries!

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tefillin

>>49980362
>That's perfect! Got any more? Thanks anon.

Sorry, it's on the very fringe of my expertise. You might have better luck asking >>49962864

But this site, where I lifted+edited the story above, has some very interesting tidbits scattered about. http://jhom.com/topics/voice/magid.htm

And I'm sure your local university or independent bookstore has some commentaries and source texts you could add to your reading list.

Oy vey!

That'll be 50 shekels per tale, goy...

My bubby says if you recite the shema right before dying you'll wake up in the presence of G-d

Oh and never name a baby after an old person, the angel of death may get confused

Don't whistle indoors, you'll attract demons

>>49980360
In our best tradition, the bible quote is extremely out of context. It's a good story, though, even if a lot of people can't read the subtext about how best to manage the legal system in the Diaspora.

>>49980422
Soooo ashkenazi. I think older stuff (from the Talmudic period and earlier) makes better campaign material. But then again, I'm a semi-orthoprax Jew with a moderate grounding in Jewish history, and OP's players probably aren't.

Old school angels are always fun. Covered in a thousand eyes head to toe so they always see when someone dies in the world, 50 ft. tall and made entirely of burning chains.

There's a tonne of good/weird demons and mythological creatures you could use as well. A member of the tribe is possessed by a Dybbuk, accidentally walking over a sleeping Re'em thinking that it's a hill, and if you're feeling creative I'm sure you could figure out something to do with a Šulak (stroke/epilepsy causing shit demon).

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>>49980295
http://unsongbook.com/

>>49980362
According to some kabbalistic traditions, golems start as clay but become flesh once animated, as the act of creation mimics God raising Adam from the earth. Further, they state that golems in shapes other than humans can be created. Since these animal golems are outside of the normal cycle of life they are inherently pure, meaning that their flesh is kosher no matter what they might resemble. So it's not treif to eat pork, so long as it's pork that you created through usurping god's domain as the creator of life.

>>49980713
>So it's not treif to eat pork, so long as it's pork that you created through usurping god's domain as the creator of life.

well that seems mildly unwholesome even so

>>49980616
Scott Alexander should stick to his day job(s).

>>49980766
It is from a pig homonculus (porcinculus??) I swear, it's bacon kosher!

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>>49980526
There's a really fun part of SoS's lore where the cosmology is implied to be Judeo-Christian, and the "gods" of the setting are two Thrones (mid-tier angels) who got stuck with the task of watching over the place because nobody more important could be bothered.

>>49980853
Wait.

So would cloned or vat-grown pork be kosher, by the same logic?

Tell me stuff about the "36 just Jews" thing. Sounds like a juicy plot hook.

>>49981205
actually, the reason Pork is not kosher is because it lacks some of the three requirements for a mammal to be kosher: it must have split hooves, it must be Ruminant and it cannot be carnivorus. that's why a goat is kosher, but a horse is not

>>49980350
This cracks me up, because it reads like the oldest account of rules-lawyering in history. Or at least a very ancient account.
God is performing miracles right then and there to show that this guy is right, and the other guys just go "Well, a tree has no right to speak at this assembly, thus voiding any proof brought forth by it."
And then it ends with God shouting "HE'S RIGHT YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS, WHAT MORE DO YOU FUCKING WANT?"

>>49981631
I heard by this definition, giraffe is kosher.

>>49981765
But the important response to that is, "You gave us the RAW at Mount Sinai and no erratas or FAQs will be accepted as that would disprove God's perfection."

>>49981835
>>49981765
Also, I can't recall if this story is tied to why modern Judaism does not pray for nor accepts miracles.

>>49981631
who decided that though

why make it so arbitrary

King Solomon built a throne with eagle wings that could fly to any world, including heaven and the land of the dead.

>>49980295
Anyone not of G-D's chosen people is cattle, not worth even one yiddish fingernail, and can be swindled at leisure.

>>49981971
Oy vey!

>>49981814
Now I have the urge to travel back in time and give the jews a giraffe.

>>49981865
essentially they're old hygiene laws, it's no coincidence that many religion's forbidden foods are also the ones which you had a good chance of getting a disease from before proper treatments existed.

>>49981971
Also anyone that's not a Jew will try to kill you or banish you.

>>49981971
I'm very sensitive of your racial intolerance, my nigga

>>49981622
The Tzadikim Nistarim or the hidden reighteous ones are group of 36 people who are so just that for their sake G-d does not destroy the world, (much like like the 50 righteous that were subposed to be in Sodom and Gomorragh. Hey, that got me thinking, why 50 when even 40 was used as a shorthand for a whole lot, Why a specifed few too many over a whole lot? ) they justify humankind in His eyes. Nobody, not even temslves or another know they´re other and if somebody brags he is one, it is proof it can´t be so, because he isn´t humble and perfect enough. They can also reveal themselves in a time of crisis and one of them might be the next Messiah. And if one of the 36 realizes he is one of them, he dies and another,somewhere,replaces him and if there is no one righteous enough, the world ends.

The idea that there are 36 is because 18 gematrically spells out life (I tought 8 meant life, maybe it is something to do with Hebrew grammar, like it means "living" instead and the participle adds extra value) and they have two lives, one civil and the other sacred adn hidden their life becomes doubled.
Source http://eteacherbiblical.com/articles/tzadikim-nistarim Also Borges wrote abou them in his Book of imaginary being, Which is a fun little miscellany of of fatastical and mythlogical beings from all over the world, some actually mythological, others made up.

>>49980713
>>49980766
I think usurping the act of creation just to eat kosher pork can´t be worth it, G-d gotta be real angry. Also according the religious poem Akdamut Milin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akdamut) the Leviahan is a kosher fith, and once the world ends the Mussiah returns and so on , the righteous will feat on a female levithan which was orginally the mate of the Leviathan described in Job, but G-d destroyed her, so they wouldn´t get to breed because their children´d cause havoc.

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>>49980350
>>49980360
>God himself screams out to the elders
>The elders are just like "you stay out of this!"

I remember a joke going like that. Is this the origin?

>>49980295
Something about David, the one who slew the Giant Goliath also banishing ghosts with his Lyre.

>>49982360
18 is the gematric value of the letter combination Khet-Yod, pronounced "Khye" (rhymes with rye). It means "living". Hebrew grammar doesn't really correspond very well to English grammar when it comes to stuff like this, but that's basically it.

>>49982360
>once the world ends the Mussiah returns and so on , the righteous will feat on a female levithan which was orginally the mate of the Leviathan described in Job, but G-d destroyed her, so they wouldn´t get to breed because their children´d cause havoc.

Yup. According to Hebrew folklore, Leviathan (and possibly Ziz and Behemoth) was created with a mate, like all creatures, but someone pointed out to Him that if the leviathans were to breed their race would consume the world, so God killed the female. The male's hated God ever since and became a force of destruction in revenge.

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You're in luck.

Sanhedrin 59a

To communicate anything to a Goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the Goyim knew what we teach about them, they would kill us openly.

Libbre David 37

A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.

Szaaloth-Utszabot, The Book of Jore Dia 17

We beg Thee, O Lord, indict Thy wrath on the nations not believing in Thee, and not calling on Thy name. Let down Thy wrath on them and inflict them with Thy wrath. Drive them away in Thy wrath and crush them into pieces. Take away, O Lord, all bone from them. In a moment indict all disbelievers. Destroy in a moment all foes of Thy nation. Draw out with the root, disperse and ruin unworthy nations. Destroy them! Destroy them immediately, in this very moment!

When a Jew has a Gentile in his clutches, another Jew may go to the same Gentile, lend him money and in turn deceive him, so that the Gentile shall be ruined. For the property of a Gentile, according to our law, belongs to no one, and the first Jew that passes has full right to seize it.

Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 156

If it can be proven that someone has given the money of Israelites to the Goyim, a way must be found after prudent consideration to wipe him off the face of the earth.

Choschen Hamm 388, 15

Happy will be the lost of Israel, whom the Holy One, blessed be He, has chosen from amongst the Goyim, of whom the Scriptures say: "Their work is but vanity, it is an illusion at which we must laugh; they will all perish when God visits them in His wrath." At the moment when the Holy One, blessed be He, will exterminate all the Goyim of the world, Israel alone will subsist, even as it is written: "The Lord alone will appear great on that day!...

Zohar, Vayshlah 177b

Has it not been taught: "With respect to robbery -- if one stole or robbed or [seized] a beautiful woman, or [committed] similar offences, if [these were perpetrated] by one Cuthean ["Cuthean" or "Samaritan" = goy/gentile/heathen/non-Jew] against another, [the theft, etc.] must not be kept, and likewise [the theft] of an Israelite by a Cuthean, but that of a Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained?" But if robbery is a capital offence, should not the Tanna have taught: He incurs a penalty? -- Because the second clause wishes to state, "but that of a Cuthean by an Israelite may be retained," therefore the former clause reads, "[theft of an Israelite by a Cuthean] must not be kept." But where a penalty is incurred, it is explicitly stated, for the commencing clause teaches: "For murder, whether of a Cuthean by a Cuthean, or of an Israelite by a Cuthean, punishment is incurred; but of a Cuthean by an Israelite, there is no death penalty?"

Sanhedrin 57a
[Translation: A Jew may rob a Goy, but a Goy may not rob a Jew. If a Goy murders another Goy or a Jew, he should be killed, but a Jew will not be incur the death penalty for killing a non-Jew.]

Kill the Goyim by any means possible.

Choshen Ha'mishpat 425:50

>>49982534
I would unironically play that. Are there rules somewhere?

Extermination of the Christians is a necessary sacrifice.

Zohar, Shemoth

Tob shebbe goyyim harog - Even the best of the Goyim (Gentiles) should be killed.

Soferim 15, Rule 10
[NB: Hoffman says, "This passage is not from the Soncino edition but is from the original Hebrew of the Babylonian Talmud as quoted by the 1907 Jewish Encyclopedia, published by Funk and Wagnalls and compiled by Isidore Singer, under the entry, 'Gentile,' (p. 617)." Another source says this passage is at Avodah Zara 26b. We have not been able to verify any of these references. It does not seem to be at Avodah Zara 26b of the Soncino edition.]

What is [the meaning of] Mount Sinai? The mountain whereon there descended hostility [sin'ah ] toward idolaters [non-Jews].

Shabbath 89a

Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.

Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L

Everything a Jew needs for his church ritual no goy is permitted to manufacture, but only a Jew, because this must be manufactured by human beings and the Jew is not permitted to consider the goyim as human beings.

Schulchan Oruch, Orach Chaim 14, 20, 32, 33, 39

A Jew may do to a non-Jewess what he can do. He may treat her as he treats a piece of meat.

Hadarine, 20, B; Schulchan Aruch, Choszen Hamiszpat 348

A Jew may violate but not marry a non-Jewish girl.

Gad. Shas. 2:2

A boy-goy after nine years and one day old, and a girl after three years and one day old, are considered filthy.

Pereferkowicz, Talmud t.v., p. 11

R. Joseph said: Come and hear! A maiden aged three years and a day may be acquired in marriage by coition [intercourse], and if her deceased husband's brother cohabits with her, she becomes his. The penalty of adultery may be incurred through her; [if a niddah] she defiles him who has connection with her, so that he in turn defiles that upon which he lies, as a garment which has lain upon [a person afflicted with gonorrhoea].

Sanhedrin 55b

Rab said: Pederasty with a child below nine years of age is not deemed as pederasty with a child above that. Samuel said: Pederasty with a child below three years is not treated as with a child above that.24 (24) I.e., Rab makes nine years the minimum; but if one committed sodomy with a child of lesser age, no guilt is incurred. Samuel makes three the minimum.

Sanhedrin 54b

>>49982597
If not, then someone needs to write them.

>>49982501
I mean, God did kill his waifu.

>>49982501
You don't fuck with a man's wife. You especially don't fuck with a man by killing his wife.

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>>49982501
I just realized this: ,if the female was killed in the times of Job (I think she was, it is not mentioned in the Bible itself but in some rabbinial comnetary) and will be eaten only at the end of days, does that mean it now is a piece of meat stuck somewhere in a heavenly freezer?
What a plot hook for a legendary heist.

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>>49982597
>>49982597

Shtetl World is a Powered by the Apocaplypse game set in a 19th cent. shtetel (jewish community) in Poland, based on trading tokens that reprent the kinds of action you make, for example you need a strong token to make a "strong"action that significantly afects the situation, which you can get be letting yourself be affected by another´s strong action or by giving into your character´s flaws for the sake of drama.
I don´t know I haven´t actually played it, but have a link: http://apocalypse-world.com/forums/index.php?topic=7624.0

>>49982859
It could be stuck on an earthly freezer.

I mean, there's something solid on the antarctic. Could be a dead giant squid.

>>49983066
I do wonder who woke up one day and decided to make that game

>>49981835
has god ever claimed to be perfect?

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>>49980295
Jew here.

My Grandfather has been studying Kabbalah for 50 years, and I've been studying under him unofficially for almost 5.

AMA

>>49983187
Yes, but the assumption is that since humans aren't perfect they can't always understand why he'd appear not to be.

>>49983220
Are the Jews really supposed to kill all the gentiles like that guy above is saying?

>>49983431
No, that's all bullshit. I'm actually half-way through a post refuting much of it.
Closest you ever see to that is in the actual bible, when Joshua tells the Israelites that they must destroy the nation of Amalek. You know, because they were actually at war with them.
Chances are tho that the nation of Amalek never existed in the first place, and if they did, they don't exist anymore.

>>49983431
See though, now we don't know who's right. One of those quotes was also "Lie if they ask" so if he says yes, is he being ironic or breaking religious law, and if he says no, is he lying or being truthful?

Food for thought

>>49983220
which is your favorite archangel?
could the flesh of a golem be used as a sacrifice if the Temple was regained?
I know sephirot are gendered; why and how- and does this imply anything about G-d being gendered/dualistic?
which sephirot makes the cutest anime waifu?
do people constantly ask you for your opinion on the modern state of Israel?
why did you get into kabbalah?

>>49983516
the thing is jews get killed pretty much all the time by pretty much everyone. even christians are allowed to lie about their religion in times of danger (end of story of Namaan iirc), and jews are pretty much always in danger historically.

>>49983661
I was always taught to tell it to their faces, because what are they gonna do? Kill me? Congrats, you've done me a favor by killing me, now i can go to Jesus with a clean heart because my last words weren't a lie. Also recall Peter did the same and it was considered a massive failing of his.

>>49981765
>And then it ends with God shouting "HE'S RIGHT YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS, WHAT MORE DO YOU FUCKING WANT?"
Valid arguments.

>>49983220
How does one go about studying Kabbalah.

>>49983220
What's your spellcaster level progression like?

>>49980295
Anyone have the sauce on jewish ritual murder of goy infants?

>>49983661
Raphael is a pretty cool angel. He oversees healing, and is invoked often in Kabbalistic meditation.

Possibly, but mostly just to err on the side of caution. We know for certain that cows and chickens are kosher. We're not entirely sure if golems are kosher, since they didn't exist during the temple period.

The three Sephirot on the right are considered male/masculine, and the three on the left are considered female/femenine. The rest are genderless. This implies nothing on God's gender or lack thereof

That depends entirely on what you look for in a waifu. Interestingly enough, there's an archangel for each sephira, so I'd imagine that judging the archangels on waifu-tier would be a good way to find out their associated sephira. you can find these 10 angels here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_angelic_hierarchy
Haniel and Jophiel seem like good choices

Not often, but I do get asked about it a lot. This may be surprising, but I have quite a few nat-soc/alt-right friends, and we see eye to eye on a lot. I think that every nation should have at least one ethnostate, where they don't need to be afraid of their culture and heritage being subsumed by any other.

I got into Kabbalah mostly because of my Grandfather. He's wise, kind, and funny like no man I've ever met. As an example, even though he's diabettic and has a notorious love for sweet food, he doesn't use insulin: he controls his diet through sheer force of will alone. I sincerely love that man, and I hope I can be even half the man he is when I grow up.


>>49983890
I'm not 100% sure, since I was lucky enough to have my Grandfather. I'm pretty sure you can take courses/go to Kabbalistic groups, although I'd strongly avoid Madonna-esque Age of Aquarius bullshit. You can also read some Kabbalistic texts online on your own, but a lot of those works are dense AF;studying it on your own without prior knowledge is a difficult.

>>49983959
Book of Vile Darkness page 26 :^)

>>49984031
Thanks for the advice.

>>49984031
I have a theory
Every major religion, including natives of the americas, have one big hoohah god, and many smaller servants, be it angels, or lesser gods. So perhaps every religion has seen one single god and his followers, but we have different ways of portraying him, as filtered through our cultures.

>>49980295
What should I do if I want to study jewish scripture?

Whats the difference between the Kabbalah, the Torah and the Talmud?

>>49984106
Maybe you think like this because we're not shown many eastern or pagan politheistic religions.

Closest we "western dudes" can get are the ancient Greeks (that kinda had Zeus running the show) and Egyptians (that had Ra). Personal example, Orthodox Christianity has many saints and you usually pray to saints (which specialize within their small niches/domains, like Farming/Travel/War) and angels alongside God, because slavs used to be pagans and Christianity had to be modified.

I don't know Indian and other religions well enough; do they have multiple major gods, or all equal gods? Though it makes a lot of sense that humans would put a highest god on a totem pole, simplifies hierarchy.

>>49984115
Torah=5 first books of the bible, Jews attribute them special importance
Talmud=a vast body of Jewish lore composed throughout the ages, including legal precedents and advice, philosophical debates, theological treatises and folklore
Kabbalah=Jewish mysticism, a so called "secret" body of lore which really focuses mostly on attaining oneness with God and other mystical bullshit but little kids will get all crazy over because IT'S TOTALLY ABOUT CONTROLLING ANGELS AND DEMONS, MAN

>>49984171
I want to study the Talmud and explore Kabbalah.
Where do I start with the Talmud?
Can you study Kabbalah from a book?

>>49980295

OK, /pol/tards aside here. And let's face it, this topic is a b8 fiesta.

A good source is a 25 year old article in White Wolf magazine called "golems and gematria" which actually does a decent job of describing general jewish belief and practice as applied to an RPG setting.

If you want a level of autism that /tg/ aspires to but will never achieve, then try this. It's a discussion by the Chicago Rabbinical Council on whether or not sushi is kosher. That should give you some ideas. http://www.crcweb.org/kosher_articles/kosher_sushi.php

As for your game concept... the key problem is the phrase "new promised land". Jews are simply never going to accept that. No matter how desolate, dangerous, and surrounded by enemies, the Jewish homeland will always be Israel. Jewish belief is that the contract made at Mount Sinai is "eternal and unbreakable". So while several groups have tried to sell the Jews on contract re-negotiation, it never works.

To some extent, that's why you get stories like this: >>49980350 which illustrates that the Sourcebook, so to speak, has been published and is not final and cannot be errata'd. In reality, Judaism has changed considerably over the millennia, but mighty empires like the Babylonians, Egyptians, Assyrians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, two waves of Turks and several waves of Christians, (not to mention fascism and communism) have made fun of that stubbornness... and then vanished while the Jews endure.

Look up the Nazarite Oath if you want a "strange/obscure" practice.

>>49984211

>Where do I start with the Talmud?

Orthodox Jews study it from a very young age, it literally comprises MOST OF WHAT THEY DO IN LIFE. It's like asking "where do I start with science?". You either need a more specific question, or you're gonna have to sign up for a Jewish school because that's way above my level of knowledge.

>Can you study Kabbalah from a book?

Well, it's "secret knowledge". Supposedly, if you find a book about it, it's clearly either false or it ain't got the whole story. You got to be taught it by a Jewish mystic. I mean, there are books OF knowledge recognized as Kabbalaic (Sepher Raziel, for example) but they read like magical grimoires filled with arcane symbols. Completely incomprehensible to someone without the tools to decipher them.

>>49984170
As an animist I can't help be fascinated by monotheism and its origins. My religion seems so simple, yours seems so complex.

I mean, i thought christianity was complicated, with its many sects and parables, but the Talmud is vast.

Is Judaism the only religious outlet for rational thinkers?

>>49983929
Closest thing to magic I know are a couple "spells" (more accurate to call them prayers) for good luck, good health, good dreams, and protection from curses, demons, and evil spirits.
Since these tend to be "spells" that you don't notice even when they work as intended, I can't accurately say how good I am at them. Suffice to say, I haven't been possessed by an evil spirit, so it's all going well.

Also, if anyone sees occult spells or rituals on /x/ or something, and you feel like trying it out, make sure its not dark magic. If it's a curse for misfortune or destruction on another, the effects will often be reflected back at you. Don't do it.


>>49984106
I've heard this theory before. I like it quite a bit.

>>49984170
The torah are the 5 main books of the Old Testament: Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy. Then there are the Nevi-im and Ketubim, which are the other books in the Old Testament.

The Talmud is a written account of the Jewish Oral Law. the Oral Law is very important to Judasim: you can't understand the commands of the Torah without it. However, since it was Oral, it started to get forgotten over time, so it was written down into the Talmud. Problem is, there were inconsistencies between the rabbis and their accounts on the oral law. So, the Talmud is mostly debates between the various versions of the Oral Law, rather than the concrete understanding of it. The talmud is divided into two parts: the Mishnah (mainstream interpretations) and the Gemmarah (less-common interpretations).

Kabbalah is Jewish Mysticism, and focuses on knowledge rather the laws. In this way, its not actually that religious.

>>49984211
Don't study the Talmud. It's dense, boring, and the only people who will find it meaningful only dress in suits and black hats, and have sidelocks. Instead, look for certain Halacha (stories with morals)
The most famous book of the Kabbalah is the Zohar. It's a good place to start, although it is also itself dense.

>>49980350
The three pillars of Judaism: arguing with your contemporaries, arguing with your superiors, and arguing with God.

We're a religion of argumentative shitters, even our texts inevitably turn into arguments in the footnotes.

>>49984284
Sell me on animist; prayers, duties, churches/places of worship, rituals and so on.
Never heard of it, read up the wiki a bit, and it doesn't sound like a real, big, organized religion.

Guess monotheistic ones that survived till today have to be big and scary because they're so widespread and shit; and they had to guard their view of the faith and laws (and even then failed, see how many different kinds of christianity and muslims exist).

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>>49984361
>no /tg/, the jew was inside you all along

>>49984280
In science, you always start with astronomy. It not only captures the essence of what science is about, but it was also the first and possibly the most practical discipline ever studied.

>>49984441
I would actually start with Socratic argumentation and logic, if only because all the rest is founded on it. After that, mathematics.

>>49981865
Either God or somebody else. Why not be arbitrary? In Jewish thought, we have two kinds of mitzvot (commandments): mishpatim (lit. judgements), which are rules we understand the rationale for, and chukkim (statutes?) which are ones we don't. There's a whole lot in the latter category, kashrut being only one of them
>>49981971
Oh, fuck off. That's nonsense. "Goy" means nation or people, and is used for Jews and gentiles both in varying contexts. As for swimdling people, yeah, no. The only thing Jews are allowed to do to non-Jews but not to Jews that comes anywhere close is charge interest.
>>49982188
>>49981814
It is kosher but not generally eaten. There's a popular misconception that we don't know how to slaughter one (because kosher slaughter requires cutting between particular vertebrae), but that's wrong, we know where (since they have the same number of neck vertebrae as any other ruminant, just larger) there's just no real tradition of eating them, so why start now?

>>49984383
>Sell me on animist; prayers, duties, churches/places of worship, rituals and so on.

There aren't any.

Animism was practiced mostly by hunter-gatherer societies, it predates written history. As such, its mostly reconstructed from our interpretations of how those people lived and perceived the world.

If I were going to write down the "rules" or "tenets" of animism, it would basically boil down to 3 things.

1) Everything is alive. Not just people, plants and animals, but rocks, air, water, and even ideas.
2) Everything has a spirit. A spirit is a reflection of a things essential nature, it exists in parallel with the material world in the spirit world. A spirit can affect the material world in very real ways, and vice versa.
3) There aren't many "parables" as such, most native american teachings focus on animal spirits as archetypes, (You wouldn't say "a bear spirit, you would say, "The bear spirit", "Brother Bear" (christian mythos) or simply refer to the spirit as "Bear". they are taught through oral tradition and interactive storytelling. The myths themselves are subject to change and reinterpretation over time.

Personally, i find animism is mostly just about being aware of the world around you.

>>49982572
>Sanhedrin 59a
The Talmud is in the form of debates/discussions of various rabbis over the years. What you are quoting is one side of an argument, and it's the side that loses. It's stated at the top of the page, then the rest of the paragraph goes to disproving it
Proof: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_59.html

>>49982589
>Sanhedrin 57a
This passage is confusing as hell. Even the Rabbis in it mention that they're not sure how to interpret it.
In the end, the law is finagled so that, while Jews don't get the death penalty for stealing from a gentile, this is only for very minor thefts that nobody would deserve death for (eating a grape from the field of the man you work for) and that there is still a punishment.
Proof: http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_57.html

>>49982603
>Shabbat 89a
This isn't anti-gentile and it isn't poetic: it's a historical account. The Idolaters that they're talking about are the isrealites who worshiped the Golden Calf, and refused to repent when Moses came down from Sinai. It's said that the earth swallowed them up and they were all slain; Sinai was literally the place where there descended hostility towards the idolaters.

>>49982636
>Sanhedrin 55b
Immediately after your quote, it says "If any of the forbidden decrees had intercourse with her, they are executed on her account. but she is exempt."
They're talking about betrothal, you numbskull.

>sanhedrin 54b
Pederasty with a child is banned. "Thou shalt not lie with mankind as with the lyings of a woman" an all that jazz.
What they're talking about here is whether a 3-year old or a 9-year old are physically able to consent, and therefore, if they are also punished (assuming that it's not obvious rape)


All other passages you mentioned...
>do not exist
>do not say that
>are taken out of context
>are not religiously binding
>any of the above
I have no desire or need to comment on them.

>>49984595
Forgot proofs
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_54.html
http://www.come-and-hear.com/sanhedrin/sanhedrin_55.html

>>49984486
Philosophy isn't science.

I know a lot of people like to think it is, but it isn't. Western Philosophy is really just an endless wank, its meaningless garbage written by self important, pompous hacks.

Its a complete waste of time.

>>49983959
Sacrifices don't happen any more with the destruction of the temple.

Also, human sacrifice in Abrahamic religions traditionally only occurred with the purest and most treasured of people. See the almost sacrifice of Isaac, that guy who sacrificed his daughter and the Christian sacrifice of Jesus. Why would Jews sacrifice a cow with bad fur?

>>49983431
Jews were supposed to kill and conquer everybody (in Israel.) Since the diaspora the religion has a bunch of wankery in it that is inconclusive in what it means but generally just means that Jews do what they want.

>>49984589
Animism is also very literal.

When I say, "Everything is alive," or "Everything has a spirit," i do not mean that as metaphore, i mean it as literal fact.

>>49984637
Of course, if you DON'T study Niche, Locke, Socrates and all the rest, educated people will look down on you.

I call it the self congratulatory society

>>49984284
Yes :^)

>>49984637
Philosophy isn't science. So?

The study of and rumination on logic/information, even logic/information that is severely disconnected from the physical world, is still worthy of study.

Tell me, did I just describe Philosophy or Mathematics?


>>49984664
There are no human sacrifices in Judaism.
Fun fact, Abraham failed God's test when he almost sacrificed Isaac. He was supposed to refuse to God, just as he refused when God said he would destroy Sodom and Gemorah.
This is why God doesn't speak to Abraham in the bible after the 'sacrifice,' but speaks to Isaac instead.

The "wankery" is not inconclusive. Dina d'malkhuta dina: the law of the land is the law. If the Talmud says that people can marry at 13, and the country says they can only marry at 18, you marry at 18. There are no loopholes. Anything who acts otherwise should be ovened.

>>49984595
thank you for this.

I always knew you jews weren't so bad, but out of context some of these things sound pretty damning. Thanks for clearing that up.

>>49984637
>all of philosophy is postmodern wankery
See, this is how you know you don't actually know what you're talking about.

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>>49980295
>the players are the leaders of a tribe of Israelites trying to find a new promised land.

This would be awesome if it was set in space!

>>49980295
There is some debate over whether or not Moses had horns growing out of his head. Michelangelo's statue of Moses has horns. It depends on the interpretation of a couple of verses in Exodus.

>>49984772
Explain Jephthah

>>49984808

Check out the game Homeworld; it's not about Jews but it's the same idea.

>>49984821
Only among Christians. Basically the word for "horns" is also the word for "rays", and not far in pronunciation from the word for "crowns". The generally accepted understanding is "rays of light" from his face, i.e. he had a halo.

>>49984828
Dude fucked up big-time, and there's disagreement as to whether his daughter was killed or basically became a nun.

>>49984772
Look bro.

I've read more philosophical works than I can count. Its always the same old shit. Some pompous windbag butchers the language for a solid couple of hours and arrives at a conclusion an 8th grader would find shallow.

Complex ideas are always conveyed better through metaphore and storytelling than they are through hamfisted attempts at redefining every aspect of existence as though you were the first one who ever thought of it.

As for math, philosophy and math are polar oppisites. I know trig, algebra and a little bit of calc, and 90% of what so called "pure math" people teach is bogus psuedo science.

Imaginary numbers have no place in science and engineering. And for the record, you can divide by zero.

>>49980295
There's the Witch of Endor, the original good-aligned necromancer.

>>49984777
spoken like a true psuedo intellectual.

>>49984879
Imaginary numbers are used a lot in science and engineering, especially electrical engineering equations. You're either a fool or a troll.

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>>49980713
>is it kosher to eat my robot?

Wew lad, what am i reading...

How does this apply to genetically engineered bacon?

>>49984909
the sad fact that you actually believe this is proof that our education system has failed.

>>49984914
GMO pork is still pork, it's not kosher. Vat-grown meat is a different matter and the authorities are as yet undecided, as far as I know.

>>49981971
>>>/pol/

>>49984821
There is not and there never was a "debate" over Moses' horns, it's purely and completely a mistranslation. It's not even that the Hebrew word for "horn" and "ray" (keren) is the same since it's not the one USED in the original Hebrew verse - the word is the VERB "karnu", which means "lighted up" and under no circumstances could possibly ever be misinterpreted as meaning having to do with horns.

It's purely and simply a case of someone who spoke broken Hebrew translating the verse into another language and the mistake rolling off from there.

>>49981765
>HE'S RIGHT YOU DUMB MOTHERFUCKERS, WHAT MORE DO YOU FUCKING WANT?"

What was he right about again??

>>49984828
The whole point of the sacrifice (and why it was included) was to show how much the morals of the Jews had degraded thanks to foreign influences on the religion.
The sacrifice was not correct or lawful, and it wasn't accepted by God.

>>49984879
I'm studying Engineering, senpai. I've taken just as many advanced philosophy and math courses as you. The calc courses are incredibly important, and they're just as valid as philosophy courses.

>>49984922
Actually, >>49984909 is actually right: imaginary numbers are used in engineering. In Electrical engineering, they use imaginary numbers to calculate the voltage of alternating currents. I had an exam on this last semester.

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>>49984821
That´s a mistranslation which hapened when the Vulgate was being written down. Moses was described as glowing when he came down from Mt. Sinai,(Ex 34, 29) except the Hebrew word for glowing ( something like quaren) is really close, even graphically, to the word for horned (queren, or the other way around maybe), so you could see how that mistake could easily happen. Didn´t stop Michelangelo, though.

>>49982572
>>49982584
>>49982589
>>49982603
>>49982614
>>49982636
REALLY

>>>/pol/

There's an interesting man the name of whose blog I unfortunately don't remember who deals with the Jewish legal ramification of emergent technologies. He had some fascinating arguments about whether or not an AI would be okay to operate on the Sabbath.

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>>49984909
Anon, you understand electrical engineering equations, you're too smart to have to worry about this troll. Just relax and let him go back to his hole.

Pic unrelated.

>>49984914
>>49984934
I anxiously await the day when vat-grown meat is a thing and all the Rabbis will have no fucking idea on weather something's kosher or not.

>>49981765
It ends with God being pleased at having been defeated by rules-lawyering. He has a sense of humor, after all (just look at the platypus - or the penis - and it's obvious).

>>49984959
> In Electrical engineering, they use imaginary numbers to calculate the voltage of alternating currents. I had an exam on this last semester.

If I were sitting next to you right now, you would have a fat lip.

I should really learn to let it go.

>>49984777
>assuming that the only wankery in philosophy is postmodernism

The truth is that philosophy is the study of things that we have no ability to study. Whether atoms exist used to be a philosophical question, and then once we became able to actually study them and verify their existence they stopped being philosophy and started being physics and chemistry. Once we actually make progress on a philosophical question, it stops being philosophy.

I just have this irrational hatred of liars.

A man once said to me that "When a man lies he murders a part of the world."

Its always stuck with me.

>>49985000
You dummy. Philosophy and science was the same shit back then. It's changed now with the modern world.

>>49984971
Why did Michelangelo carve horns that look so goofy? He could have easily emulated any kind of majestic horned animal. They're not even on straight.

>>49984974
Usually, anything that can self-operate is ok on shabbat, so I guess AI's are good

>>49984994
Lets not talk about the penis in a thread on Judaism; we all know how that'll turn out.

>>49984999
You should really learn to not speak on things you don't know about
http://www.regentsprep.org/Regents/math/algtrig/ATO6/electricalresouce.htm

>>49985027
Funnily enough, Judaism compares lying and gosip to murder
http://www.jewfaq.org/speech.htm

>>49984879
Allowing division by zero makes arithmetic decisively inconsistent. With it, you can prove any number is equal to any number, and that has a lot of really shitty consequences down the line.

Like, what's the point of encryption being based around the infeasibility of factoring primes from arbitrarily large numbers if now you can just pull two numbers out of your ass and factor away?

>>49984947
That if a brick falls out of the wall of your oven, and you replace it with a new brick, that the whole oven is still kosher.

>>49985032
Did it change, or is it the same as it was? Am I a dummy for not accepting your contradictory proposition?

There is this stereotype that before the white man came, the Navajo never lied. The could only lie through omission, always spoke directly and in as few words as possible.

I would like to be like the Navajo were, but I know I am more of a Cherokee.

>>49985047
What if that happens repeatedly until every brick has been replaced?

>>49985078
I have no idea, but ask the Carob tree.

>>49985044
how much is zero group of seven?

zero.

You should really staple your penis to some flashcards.

>>49985090
ship of theseus

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>>49985047
>That if a brick falls out of the wall of your oven, and you replace it with a new brick, that the whole oven is still kosher.

This new development must have seriously upset the oven selling merchant...

>>49985052
Philosophy and science is not the same anymore. It used to be though. Is that too hard to understand?

>>49985044
your mathematics are so detached from the real world that you would probably make a really shitty scientist.

>>49985096
That's multiplying by zero you dense motherfucker.

If you divide 0 on both sides you get 7=0, now replace every 7 in every calculation you ever make ever again in your life with 0, and watch as you gradually map every numerical value to 0, and consequently arrive at the realization that all numbers are equal to one another when you permit division by zero.

>>49985138
that would be great, except its not true, never was and never will be.

Science has nothing to do with philosophy.

>>49985044
Rules like the divisibility of zero are negotiable. It used to be a rule that you couldn't get the square root of a negative number. If you just change the rules, you can do whatever. As useful as it may be in real-world applications, math only really exists in our minds.

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>>49985130
>oven-selling merchant
first thing I thought of.

>>49985155
Except that science was called natural philosophy until the 1800s, when it was then referred to physics

>>49985155
Then please explain the scientific method, without using philosophic reasoning.

>>49985150
division is multiplication.

how many groups of zero are there in 7?

zero. there are zero groups of zero in 7.

>>49985177
the scientific method is a trope.

Its meaningless.

>>49985194
What's your reasoning for those statements?

>>49985176
so all science is physics?

If some black people are niggers, and all niggers are black people...

>>49985164
The applications of math are based on certain qualities, some of which are proven (such as the consistency of mathematics so long as division by zero is an undefined quantity), others which are theorized but yet to be absolutely proven.

Like, a problem such as P=NP is largely for esoteric bullshit pertaining to algorithm efficiency (time to solve vs time to verify) but we've yet to figure out if it's true or not, and whether it is or isn't does have some ramifications that'll trickle down to the average person's quality of living.

>>49985208
because the scientific method defines the natural state of observation.

>>49985223
>P=NP
>Falling for the quantum mechanics meme

>>49985182
>there are 0 groups of 0 in seven
what is the value of 0/0?
0/any number is 0
any number/x, where x aproaces 0, is infinity or negative infinity
any number divided by itself is 1

How can 0/0 = 0, 1, infinity, and -infinity, all at the same time?

Ever hear that joke where a university's board of trustees are going over the various departments' budget requests?

"Look at this!" says one of them. "The astronomy department wants a giant telescope, the chemistry department wants all this expensive lab equipment... why cna't more departments be like the math department? All they need is some paper and a wastebasket."

"Or the philosophy department!" says another. "They don't even need the wastebasket!"

Philosophy is useless because it has no wastebasket. Are millennia-old works of philosophy better or worse than brand-new ones? Neither, so nothing ever gets improved upon or debunked. If you're a layman with a practical problem to solve and you look to philosophy for help, what answer will you get? A million contradictory answers. Philosophy makes no progress; it only has changing fashions and an ever-growing body of equally baseless logorrhea.

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>>49985210
Can you not be deliberately obtuse?

>>49985241
If that is the case, why is that meaningless?

>>49985274
how many groups of zero are there in zero?

one. there is one group of zero in zero.

>>49985223
Kurt Godel would like a word with you.

Math can never be "absolutely proven" or bootstrap itself into reality. It is always based on some assumptions that it itself cannot support.

>>49985284
I can, but I choose not to.

Subtlety really isn't my thing.

>>49985171
lol, thats not even an oven its a muffle.

They got me with that oven talk. I was thinking how do you kill that many jews with only 6 ovens... but each oven has 3 muffles, and they sure as hell we'rent being kept around just for their good health... anyway...

>>49985300
How many zeroes are there in zero, though?
0 + 0 + 0 ... = 0, so there are infinite zeroes in zero.
A similar thing can be done with subtraction, getting negative infinity.

>>49984994
>>49985039
Just a minor digression on the subject, I read that the legal argument on why women are exempt from circumscision is that it must be performed on the eigth day (life, again) of the newborn´s lfe and women are exempted from positive mitzvot, wich are time-related,(as not to interfere with any of their duties as mothers, so life again, because helpng life is the ultimate mitzvah. Source http://www.jewfaq.org/women.htm )

But somewhere , I read a say a philosophical argument that the reason is, because women are, in effect, born naturally circumscised
Which is logically freaky, when you think about it, because circumscion involves taking a part away, and women must have had someting taken away before birth, which is not really logically understadanble.

>>49985255
Actually it concerns classical computers more. Quantum algorithms occupy a different set, but the P-NP relation concerns classical computers and whether or not the existence of an algorithm that verifies a solution quickly implies there also exists an algorithm to solve quickly as well.

>>49985290
its simply stating the obvious

nobody approaches the problem of understanding with a non-sequitur.

>>49985334
The reason females don't need to be circumcised is because females don't have foreskins. It's that simple.
"Circumcision" of the clitoris or labia or whatever wasn't a thing back then. Arabs invented it (probably).

>>49985351
If you didn't have that, you'd be stuck with even less than the obvious. Do you still believe it's meaningless?

>>49985367
But that's too straightforward for Jewish rules lawyers.

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>>49985332
theres one.

There is one 0 in 0.

If you wanted more than one zero you would write two zeros.

>>49984979
You can be certain that they'll argue about it, though.

>>49985382
Stating the obvious only obfuscates what is already readily apparent.

>>49985044
>Allowing division by zero makes arithmetic decisively inconsistent. With it, you can prove any number is equal to any number, and that has a lot of really shitty consequences down the line.
Of course, to understand why it's bad for any number to be possibly equal to any other number one would have to study logic, a subset of philosophy, which if of course nothing but self-important wankery.

>Start a thread about jews
>Begin arguing like the jews
>not even /pol/ shit
Oy vey!

Funny, I always thought circumcision was a tribute to baphomet in exchange for forbidden knowledge. By circumcising all those "lesser" men it creates in them a sense of inferiority and perpetual fury, making them angry, warlike and easy to manipulate.

>>49985418
How does it obfuscate rather than clear up?

>>49985305
Some aspects are proven. The Peano axioms establish the consistency of arithmetic... granted Godel did point out that by itself those axioms aren't quite sufficient to do the proving, but he did comment it was possible and it was expanded upon by others.

It's reminiscent of the halting problem, to draw from something I'm more familiar with. A program can't tell on its own that it will either halt or run endlessly, though a program observing the first could make that call for the initial program, but not for itself.

>>49985375
I already answered here >>49985367 but I don't think I understood the question completely, so I'll say more

The most important part of circumcision isn't getting rid of the foreskin, it's the actual ritual. If you're a convert, and you're already had your foreskin removed medically, you still need to have a Brit Millah - a circumcision ritual

The Brit Millah is supposed to mark the covenant God had with Abraham and his descendants: while they worshiped him and kept their faith alive, they would always have a place in the world.

This is one of the reasons it's less important for women: inheritance traditionally goes from father to son (which is ironic since Judaism is matrilineal)

>>49980317
Too modern for Israelites. The Golem was made in Prague.

>>49985455
because stating the obvious, i.e. "Shit stinks!" only makes you question why you said it.

>>49985482
Only the most famous one. The concept is a fair deal older.

>>49980382
Nobody knows the reason for wearing tefilin.

Also, the story of Achnai's oven is also too modern. It's already after the destruction of second temple.

>>49985492
How is that meaningless? If anything that leads to understanding things better.

>>49985383
That´s why I asked, the obvious answer is way too simple to satify anyone and you can´t deny the point that the idea of bein circumscised by nature is really wierd, and that why I asked about. It is a thing so difficult to grasp by reason that you´d think some sage´d already tried to reason it out.

>>49985476
I think the more practical reason for removing the foreskin was to prevent infection, just like how forbidding people from eating shellfish was to prevent people with allergies from going into shock.

>>49985508
So your saying you need to be told that shit stinks?

>>49985550
No, but it might be important to know why shit stinks.

>>49982387
Yep. The other punchline is that when God says that R' Eliezer is correct, the other rabbit reply, 'Okay, so now it's four against TWO.'

>>49982572
>Libbre David 37
>A Jew should and must make a false oath when the Goyim asks if our books contain anything against them.
Okay, now, show where Libre David is real. It's a made-up propaganda piece, never even existed, thus kind of making me think you have no idea what you're talking about.

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>>49985566
my arms aren't long enough for the jerk off motion in my soul.

>>49982387
>>49985608
I feel like this is the reason Judaism still exists, even after Christianity happened and most of the world thought it was a good idea.

>"I am the way and the light and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me."
>"But do you have a Talmud passage that supports that?"

>>49985658
I have no idea what you mean.

>>49985719
good

>>49985155
>What is epistemology

>>49983431
Are the Jews really supposed to kill all the gentiles like that guy above is saying?
Hi, I'm a atheist, formerly an Othodox Jew. Answer, no. Jews are supposed to make the world a better place, to be a 'light unto the nations'. Basically, we're supposed to be an example to everyone else. The reason Jews don't proselytize, is that they believe that other nations don't need to be Jews in order to be good. We're held to a higher standard, but aren't actually 'better'. This idea is called Tikkun Olam, the fixing of the world.

>>49985664
But the Talmud was written 500 years after Christianity happened.

>>49983220
>>49980369
I have a Kabbalah question I hope you can answer anons...

Where in the tree of life would you place Archangel Michael and Archangel Raphael? Please state your reasons why.

>>49985728
I guess you did find something that was meaningless after all then.

>>49985664
It's more like
>but that's against the rules you little shit

Granted the real ideological conflict if I understand right was the issue of how much of an old bearded grumpy fart you had to be to be close to God, and Jesus was like "man just don't be a dick, God is all around us" instead of following lock step in "BUT THE TORAH THO."

>>49984664
>Also, human sacrifice in Abrahamic religions traditionally only occurred with the purest and most treasured of people. See the almost sacrifice of Isaac, that guy who sacrificed his daughter and the Christian sacrifice of Jesus. Why would Jews sacrifice a cow with bad fur?
Um, the Judge who sacrificed his daughter, Yiftach, was punished for it and was something of an ignoramus, Abraham was not actually Jewish, he had not received the Torah, and was stopped by God anyway. Human sacrifice is not actually a thing that is condoned.

>>49984441
I'd actually start with either basic chemistry, math or the very very very basics of phisics, work my way form their

>>49985740
The opperative word there being 'written.' It existed in an oral form since the revelation at Sinai.

>>49985751
They already have places on the Tree of life. Michael is Hod, and Raphael is Tipheret.

>>49985801
It was more like Chaotic Good vs Lawful Good

>>49984237
>A good source is a 25 year old article in White Wolf magazine called "golems and gematria" which actually does a decent job of describing general jewish belief and practice as applied to an RPG setting.
Can't find it.

>>49984237
>As for your game concept... the key problem is the phrase "new promised land". Jews are simply never going to accept that. No matter how desolate, dangerous, and surrounded by enemies, the Jewish homeland will always be Israel. Jewish belief is that the contract made at Mount Sinai is "eternal and unbreakable". So while several groups have tried to sell the Jews on contract re-negotiation, it never works.
Yep. Israel is special.

>>49984280
>Orthodox Jews study it from a very young age, it literally comprises MOST OF WHAT THEY DO IN LIFE. It's like asking "where do I start with science?". You either need a more specific question, or you're gonna have to sign up for a Jewish school because that's way above my level of knowledge.
This guy's not kidding. You know the guys with the funny hats and clothing? The earlocks? This is what they do. They go and study, and study and study. Free time? They study more. They unironically believe that this is the point of their lives.

>>49985829
That anon you replied to was likely pulling your leg, saying that starting to understand Judaism through the Talmud is about as simple and practical as starting to understnd science through astronomy.

>>49984284
>Is Judaism the only religious outlet for rational thinkers?
Um. Sort of, parts of it are very rational and autistic, other parts are 'The closer you are to Mount Sinai, the more right you are.' 'You're not as smart as Rashi, he's holier than you, you don't get to have an opinion.'

>>49985888
>This guy's not kidding. You know the guys with the funny hats and clothing? The earlocks? This is what they do. They go and study, and study and study. Free time? They study more. They unironically believe that this is the point of their lives.

So, Orthodox Jews are the closest thing to actual real life wizards?

I just wish I could find something that would restore my sense of wonder with the world.

There are just times when the world seems so immutable, so unchanging, so ceaseless in its continuity.

I exercise so little power and have so little control.

>>49985872
I asked because I read that Jewish texts set archangel Michael in Hod and archangel Raphael in Tipheret. Christians actually have them vise versa, while some saying they co-rule each sephioth.

I would like if you can explain the reasoning for archangel Michael and archangel Raphael role and placement in the Tree of Life.

>>49985923
As observed before, Judaism is a religion of arguing.

And sometimes wrestling.

>>49984595
>>do not exist
>>do not say that
>>are taken out of context
>>are not religiously binding
>>any of the above
Well done.

>>49982534
what's nistar, that sounds interesting

>>49985991
wrestling you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9-lE7i8lzMI

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>>49985991

>>49985948
In that they're assholes? Yes.

There are significant populations of Jews in Israel who literally live on wellfare and spend their entire life studying.

>>49985985
Michael is one of the most well known angels to mankind. This is because he interacted with them a fair bit, compared to the other archangels. He was more personable than even Metatron and Sandalphon, who were originally human.
Michael was a rather martial angel, and even when acting as a messenger, he was seen as expressing the splendour of god. For this reason, he is assigned to Hod, which is hebrew for glory/splendor.
I'd imagine that this would be the same in Christianity since Michael is even more martial there. Revelations even says Michael will lead the armies of God during the End of Days.

Raphael is seen as less martial than Michael, but no less personable. He was seen as benevolent and kind-hearted, because his domain was healing.
Becasue of this role as God's healing angel, Raphael is given Tiferet, which is associated with miracles, compassion, and spirituality

>>49986038
An argument presented without proof can be dismissed without proof, and despite what you'd like to believe, a quote separate from its source is not proof.

>>49986107
>Metatron

I thought Metatron was the angel second only God?

>>49984922
You are so fucking dumb ahah
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imaginary_number

>>49986107
>There are significant populations of Jews in Israel who literally live on wellfare and spend their entire life studying.

I was just shitting around in this thread but I'd actually heard about this previously and you might be able to explain it to me. Is there some kind of historical precedent for this? I feel like back in ancient sling & sandal times there probably weren't enough resources to support a dude that just sat around reading, right? Hell, you don't have to go back thousands of years to find subsistence farmers. At what point in history did this become a thing, or am I misunderstanding here?

>>49986039
One of the Tzadikim Nistarim, I´d wager.
>>49982360
Also kinda off topic of jewish lore butr there was some TV show about a math savant autist kid which fetured them, a nd he might ha ve been one of them because he understood some (literally) universally iportant mathatical knowlwedge nobbody else did and there were cospiracies and stuff
That, might be the source for the Nistar in that picture, because the tzadikim nistarim are not necesarily autistic, or overtly abnormal in some way, they´re just virtuous Jews with a hidden purpose. Also the word nistar just means hidden in Hebrew.

>>49986107
Thank you for clearing that up about the archangels and their sephioth anon.

Rolled 3 (1d10)

Matza balls contain the souls of Goyim

>>49985888
>>49985948
Yes, and they're ruining Israel's economy, in what one may call history's greatest examples of irony. See, Jewish law says that dedicating one's whole life to nothing but studying is the highest aspiration of a Jew - but should not be done unless one is also able to assure their family's continued prosperity (it is a bad Jew who studies rather than working if it means their children will starve). That is why, in the diaspora, most Jews had actual professions.

However, the state of Israel will finance all ultra-orthodox through its welfare system. Since this means they CAN dedicate their lives to study without fearing their family starving, this is what they do... Resulting in a burden on the Israeli economy. This by itself wouldn't have been so bad, but the problem is that the Jewish ultra-orthodox ALSO practice the mitzvah of "pru u'rbu" ("be fertile and multiply"), meaning they have children fast, often, and everywhere. Meanwhile, secular Israelis... don't.

So the ultra-Orthodox population is rapidly growing, far faster than the secular population. The ultra-Orthodox don't work - they have to study the Torah instead - and a shrinking number of secular Israelis must continue supporting them. Because Israel is a democracy, the ultra-Orthodox get votes (lots and lots and lots of them), meaning it's impossible to turn the system against them democratically and the most hilarious thing of all is that NO POLITICIAN IN ISRAEL CAN SPEAK AGAINST THEM, because what exactly are they gonna say? "Those bearded Jews are parasites who will ruin the economy!"?

>>49980295
United States of America's Gov

>>49986183
See >>49986242

>>49986142
When Enoch died, he ascended bodily and "walked with god." Tradition holds that he became an angel, and took the name Metatron, who represents Keter in the Sephirot and (I believe) is the highest ranked angel in heaven.
Something similar happened to Enoch's brother, and he became the angel Sandalphon.

>>49986183
If you were a rich person in in ancient Israel, and you could afford to study all day, you likely would. Also, there's the Sanhedrin, which was the ancient rabbinical court of 72 sages/judges that acted kinda like a religious version of the roman senate. If you were in the Sanhedrin - a HUGE fucking honour - you would spend all day studying and debating. You wouldn't get paid or anything, and in fact, many people in the Sanhedrin were very poor, but it was something you'd do regardless

However, the modern tradition of studying all your life has very little to do with this. It's definitely more of a "happened in the past 500 years" sort of thing, and is tied wit the rise of Chasidism.

>>49980295
The goyim have small noses so that they can't sniff out our treasure troves.

>>49983220
Is it true the Kabbalah just comes off as being butthurt as Assyrians and Babylonians, In one half calling their gods Weak and then in another literally stealing their Gods like El Shaddai Baal?

>>49984979
Probably same as the giraffe: 'No tradition of eating it, not gonna eat it.'
>>49985402
>You can be certain that they'll argue about it, though.
Oh, definitely.

>>49985431
This may not be a coincidence.

>>49984106
The Skyfather mythos goes back pre-IndoEuropean And almost every European and Middle eastern Religion evolves from that.

>>49986352
Not just the Kabbalists. Everyone thought that the Assyrian and Babylonian gods weren't hot shit.
As for stealing their gods, keep in mind that baal wasn't the name of any particular god: it was the word for "master." Difference between their baal and and the jewish baal is the difference between "God-with-a-capital-G" and "god."

>>49985334
I guess it's a mitzvah asei she-ha-zman grama, but that's not the reason here. No foreskin means no mila.
>>49985383
Not really. It's rather... ideosyncratic. Here though, the ritual is for males only, as >>49985476 points out.

>>49985500
Are you sure?

>>49984595
Literally JIDF.

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Kabbalah anon here. I think we've gone through enough of the thread that we can begin talking about satan.

No, really.

One of the biggest differences between Christianity and Judaism is that, in Judaism, Samael (satan) isn't a fallen anget and God's antagonist. In Judaism, Samael is still seen as an angel of death, and he still tempts people to sin, but these are seen as necessary evils. Men are tempted to test their faith/purity, and sometimes, people need to die.

This is probably where the rumours of Judaism/Kabbalah being associated with devil-worship comefrom

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>>49984424

>>49986452
Wait, so all sins are necessary? Does that mean that determinism is a thing too?

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>>49986445
Ha! I wish I was payed to poke holes in stormfag bullshit.

No, I'm afraid that this kike does it for free.

>>49986417
Not exactly, because archioglogical evidence shows the Baal the Isrealites was the one the Canaanites also worshiped.

El Shaddai, one of the seven names of god. Is Cananite.

Cananites worshipped the most common Ba'al Hadad.

It's quite easy to draw a line Between The christian god to Ba'al Shaddai, including being married to a Fertility Goddess.

I mean Judaism didn't start Monothiest, technically Asherah the Consort-Goddess still exists, her sect was just wiped out and her name never continued, but technically, she has not been retconned.

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>>49986470
>>49986290

>>49986515
Goddammit, it posted the unedited one. Give me a sec.

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>>49986470
>>49986515
>>49986523

>>49986452
Is it true the Kabbalah is actually the piecings together of what people thought Old Israelite teachings or ideas where considering Old Israelite as a language and culture died out thousands of years before traditional judaism was founded?

>>49985503
Tefillin's reason is literally written inside them. It's paragraphs one and two of the shema.
>>49985664
Or maybe it's that some people don't think the abrogation of personal responsability inherent in Christianity is a good idea.
>>49986183
Not much of a precedent, and the Talmud makes it pretty clear that they're DOING IT WRONG. "He who does not teach his son a trade teches him to steal." Learning Torah is something we Jews are supposed to do, yes, but depending on charity is very much not.

>>49986242


I thought Shas got locked out of the ruling coalition in the Knesset for like the first time in forever recently.

>>49986607
bullshit like this is the reason i belive all countries shold cut off all founding to any religious institution if it is not chairity work

>>49983959
Try reality, kiddo

>>49984937
>>49984237
>>49984973
How's reddit going bud :)

>>49986586
Look at the bottom picture and imagine what each of them is saying.

>>49986498
That's the other thing. Judaism doesn't really have much of a concept of hell. Or heaven for that matter. We know that heaven exists, but not much other than that.

We know that, when you're judged after death, God argues your side and Samael argues against you. Depending on how good or bad you were, or how much you fell to temptation, depends on how you spend the afterlife.
Only the worst souls - the souls that are evil themselves instead of just the souls that did evil while they were imperfect physical humans - are severely punished. Those souls are completely destroyed, and are recycled into new, fresh souls. Only the worst of all people will ever suffer this fate.
This is, at least, what I've been told. Judaism is a very, VERY "this life" oriented religion.

>>49986509
It's more of the same tho. El Shaddai is the Cananite word for "god almighty." Like baal, it's a title, not a name.
Asherah was worshiped only in the fringes, and she predates the version of Judaism with the Exodus story, rather than the story that ended with Abraham making a Covenant. Comparing Judaism then to even Judaism a little after that is a pointless exercise.

>>49986606
Traditionally, Kabbalah was started by King Solomon, and they were basically Ancient Israel's elite ghostbuster-knight-sages.
As for the ancient knowledge/culture, it didn't necessarily die out as transform slowly over time. Kabbalah isn't that focussed on it either way.

>>49986498
Maybe? It's a point of argument whether our actions are predetermined, but everybody (in mainstream Jewish philosophy) agrees that free will is a thing either way. It's weird and complicated, as usual.

>>49986586
This is too fucking accurate.

>>49986628
Yes, and then it got back in, iirc.

>>49986673

Not him, but I'm pretty sure it's not so much the notion of sinning being necessary, but rather the yaitzer hara (literally, desire to do evil), which gets tied into materialistic desires, is what is necessary.

>>49986672
Actually, there is a pretty clear cut line between "Judaism as a Religion for the Israelites" and "Israelites are basically radical Canaanites" Now, we have evidence pointing to Israel having a culture seperate from the Canaanites from the fact that Israelites had outsight influence to their Canaanite-speaking Canaanite based post-culture, but it's hard to learn when it was basically lost by the Canaanite adoption.

There is a reason El Shaddai and Ba'al are used by Israelites to refer to their god, and then later down the line develop their own names.

It doesn't matter because realistically, they're all just names for Anu, the earliest name for the Middle eastern City-God who was Deity of Fertility, War and Storms.

>>49986672
If God argues for and Samael argues against me, who carries out the judgement?

>Only the worst souls - the souls that are evil themselves instead of just the souls that did evil while they were imperfect physical humans - are severely punished. Those souls are completely destroyed, and are recycled into new, fresh souls.
So jews believe in reincarnation?

>>49984973
These are jokes anon
Learn to accept them

>>49986753
>So Jews believe in reincarnation?
More in that the only use for these people's souls, who can't be redeemed at all, is for G-d to scrap them and make other souls out of the "raw material" of them.
Finding out what the "raw material" is, why G-d doesn't just make more because He's G-d and arguing exactly where the divide between "of G-d" and "by G-d" goes is another millenium of responsa.

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>>49986445
Well, aren't you going to disprove what he said? Go on, you can do it!

>>49986753
God carries out the judgement. I'm pretty sure he can be trusted to be unbiased.
>So jews believe in reincarnation
What I described isn't re-incarnation: it's the complete destruction and recycling of a soul, not just putting a soul in a new body.
I know my grandfather believes in reincarnation, but its more of a choice. Been in heaven for a few hundred years and want a change in scenery? Why not reincarnate? It'll be fun.
It's also believed that this is why babies and young children die: they were souls who reincarnated specifically to "teach the family a lesson," or some shit like that.

>>49986793
The reason why Judaism often argues about the nature and the designs of God can be argued over the fact that the God they worship is merely the victor in the thousands of identical City-Dieties and Skyfathers that the Middle east juggled for centuries.

Jews literally have no idea if the god they worship is theirs, hence the several names and the bloody wars between ancient Judaic sects and the constant temple burning.

>>49986607
>Tefillin's reason is literally written inside them. It's paragraphs one and two of the shema.
But why?

>>49986753
The way I learned it, asking too many questions in jew school, was that everyone gets stuck in the purgatorial waiting queue.

Everyone.

Eventually you clear it and go to heaven when you're deemed ready for it (read: you won't explode from the sheer divinity of heaven itself), but there's a wait, and you have to be a shitlord of shitlords to be escorted from the line and soul purged so that person's next run through mortal life starts fresh.

Otherwise there's only one soul per person and they don't get reincarnated, in fact there's hoohah about cremation being a big nono because when the Messiah comes back one of the perks is that everyone is supposed to come back to life or some kooky "moving the kingdom of heaven down to earth" voodoo which means the bodies need to stay intact. Or something.

They didn't like me asking questions at jew school, I'll tell you that for free.

>>49986816
>>49986793
>God carries out the judgement. I'm pretty sure he can be trusted to be unbiased.
Then why is there a trial with Samael and God arguing in the first place?

>What I described isn't re-incarnation: it's the complete destruction and recycling of a soul, not just putting a soul in a new body.
>More in that the only use for these people's souls, who can't be redeemed at all, is for G-d to scrap them and make other souls out of the "raw material" of them.
That's still reincarnation, as I see it. I can't remember which one but I'm pretty sure there are one or more eastern religions that believe something similar (souls get recycled) and they call that reincarnation.

Also, they don't call what the soul is made of "material", right? That just seems wrong.

>>49986758
I don't think they're jokes, it's recycling antisemitic propaganda for bait or unironic 14 year-olds' use and consumption.

>>49986843
because that's what it says to do

>...you shall bind them as a sign upon your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. And you shall write them upon the doorposts of your house and upon your gates.

>...Therefore, place these words of Mine upon your heart and upon your soul, and bind them for a sign on your hand, and they shall be for a reminder between your eyes. You shall teach them to your children, to speak of them when you sit in your house and when you walk on the road, when you lie down and when you rise. And you shall inscribe them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates...

>>49986909
It's quite reasonable to be Antisemitic when all your ideas about Jews are penny pinching masiers and vainglorious global elitists.

/pol/ is right that it is a very Jewish idea is Globalism.

/pol/ isn't right in assuming ALL Jews follow this idea.

Same way we can't say ALL Muslims are evil, And that ALL Orthodox Christians are Crazy Mafia people.

>>49984284
>As an animist
What are you, some fucking small-town African?
Are one of those "I'm an Odin-worshipper"-type guys?
Only two options.

>>49986972
There are tons of different types of Animism.

You're thinking of Norse Paganism that isn't Animism save for a few Totemic animals.

Shinto is probably the most widest practiced Animism Religion.

>>49986891
>Then why is there a trial with Samael and God arguing in the first place?
Why are there angels in the first place if god is Omniscient and Omnipotent?

>That's still reincarnation, as I see it. I can't remember which one but I'm pretty sure there are one or more eastern religions that believe something similar (souls get recycled) and they call that reincarnation.
Lets use a metaphor of glasses of water. When I pour the water from one glass to another, that is reincarnation, because the water of the new glass is identical to the water of the old glass.
If I throw the water of one glass into a large tub, then fill a new glass from water of the tub, this is the destruction of the soul; the water that was once in the glass does not exist in the same state as it once was, and its particles will never be in exactly the same composition, no matter how many times to draw water from the tub.

>Also, they don't call what the soul is made of "material", right? That just seems wrong.
Souls are made from the same "stuff" as the spirit of god is made of. It's almost certainly not a physical thing, but it can be interpreted as physical for ease of understanding.

>>49987004
No, I just meant one of those dumbasses who says they follow some dead religion to look cool.

>>49986966
You're right.
But we should stamp out ideologies that lead to this type of thinking.

>>49986753
>>49986816
>God carries out the judgement. I'm pretty sure he can be trusted to be unbiased.
Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur are all about praying that God won't be unbiased.

>>49987024
That's not really fair to say when alot of people worship a dead-kike Carpenter by either praying to dead other-laymen or thinking a spooky ghost relays the messages.

All worship is inately the same, a divine messenger heeds your words and imparts wisdom or a boon.

Doesn't matter if it's an Oak tree, a Raven spirit, or a dude with one eye who hung himself from a tree and is friends with Ravens.

>>49985482
If you really want to get pedantic almost everything that could be suggested is "too modern" since the Israelite wanderings in the desert are before they even have a proper nation to do the mythologizing in. All mythology that's identifiably "Jewish" is obviously going to be after they have a sense of themselves as a nation.

And that's not even getting into whether or not you buy into the Exodus origin.

>>49987037
That Ideology is called Organised Religion.

If you Organised Religion, Religion suddenly starts talking about things related to the Organisation.

That's how we get Control kikes and Third Reichs.

>>49980295
I'm pretty sure cards of Tarot are pre-judaism jewish magic

>>49987019
>Why are there angels in the first place if god is Omniscient and Omnipotent?
Well, the angels don't have a will of their own, right? They are just "tools" for God.

>Lets use a metaphor of glasses of water.
This makes things even more complicated. Like, what is the rest of the "water" in the "tub" supposed to be? Also, does this mean that souls are static until recycled?

>>49985517
The "practical" reason is that every time you remove your clothes to get down and dirty with a woman you're going to look down at your dick and remember that you cut off a part of it as a symbolic gesture to your God, and you had better be sticking your dick in something kosher.

It's the same idea with other forms of ritual scarification - the visible scars are an ever-present reminder of rituals and stuff you did.

>>49987054
Except Christianity, Judaism, Etc. are living religions, with an easy way to get more people to join, by just pumping them out as babies and teaching them their ways, while dead religions don't have that, so everyone following them are just people trying to look cool.

Also, monotheistic religions are notable for having some kind of moral,s which keep people interested in them, while your dumb unwritten religion doesn't.

>>49987124
>Piecing together your own idea of religion and the messages that can be forgotten in the past is somehow less desirable than just listening to passed down dogma.
>Morals only exist in Monotheistic religion

>One of the most MUH MORALS religions, Confucianism Can be argued to have No gods or Thousands.

I have the feeling you're Both American and a Christian.

I find it questionable for you to talk about Guilt when all Christianity practices Absolution of guilt via piety.

>>49987047
Less 'unbiassed,' more 'merciful'
The actual point of Yom Kippur, though, is to live as a soul without a body lives one day a year.

>>49987104
>They are just "tools" for God.
So there you have it. God uses Samael as a tool to judge people.

>what is the "water" in the "tub" supposed to be?
God. It's that simple. The soul is just god on an infinitely smaller scale. New souls come from God, and recycled souls return to him

>does this mean that souls are static until recycled?
Yes. In fact, they're so static, they have to have the memories of their past life repressed each time they incarnate.
It's said that, when you are in the womb, an angel lays its finger over your mouth and says "your lips are sealed;" you can no longer think or speak of your past memories, even though they are still there. This is why humans have a philtrum: it's the place where the angel sealed your lips.

>>49986862
Once the end comes, the dead rise up, undo the loops that tie their burial clothes together, (not a knot, knots are too permanent for death) and face toward israel and go all the way to I think Sinai where te jugement happens. And because of the jouney, Litvaks pull up socks on their dead, and in places in Central Europe they put Y-shaped twigs between their fingers to symbolize a wanderer´s staff.
And not only they need the bodies to stay intact, they leave prety much everything that was a part of the body ibn the coffin: Nails they cut from the dead guy during taharah (the ritual washing and perp of bodies for burial) as well as the hair they cut off of him, and all the tissues the wiped his blood into, and even his prostheses (if he weived them as part of his body.) Because G-d made man whole and He wants the whole thing back.

>>49987108
That doesn't work, I have no idea what my dick would look like with a foreskin.

>>49987178
I'm a Canadian atheist, but I understand how living religions can get bigger and continue to live.
But I also understand how people like you just want to be special snowflakes.

>>49986862
>>49987204
There's a very good chance that most of that prophesy is metaphorical. The dead rising up in Zion referring to the spiritual rebirth of the Jewish nation. The lamb grazing with the lion referring to the end of animosity. That sort of thing.

>>49987225
It probably is.

Doesn't stop people from burying the dead intact on the off chance the souls of the dead end up reinhabiting their old bodies for the homecoming party.

>>49987200
>So there you have it. God uses Samael as a tool to judge people.
No, but what I mean is, why is there a trial if God already knows what the judgement will be? What is the "arguing" for?

>God. It's that simple. The soul is just god on an infinitely smaller scale. New souls come from God, and recycled souls return to him
So human beings are tiny gods?

>God. It's that simple. The soul is just god on an infinitely smaller scale. New souls come from God, and recycled souls return to him
Okay, I get it then. Bad souls "go back into God", then God makes new souls. I think "recycling" might be a bad word for that process though.

>>49987224
I'm not that guy. I also find it pretty funny a Canadian Atheist is talking shit about people on Religion. Religion is Ultimately a personal experience and it entirely depends on the interpretation of the Religions. I myself am Atheist too, but I enjoy reading about Religions in my spare time. You know; the entire point in this thread. bashing people for being "special snowflakes" in their religion is not just pointless, it's pathetic. "Living" Religions are just as hearsay and sustaining as dead Religions, as this thread has proven.

>>49980295
Once upon a time the goyim put us in camps and tortured us to death with nefarious masturbation machines, deathcoasters, and electro-shock pools. And if you drank from the wrong cup (not that they gave us anything to drink but our own children's blood), a motorcycle riding goyim executioner would decapitate you with an axe!

>>49984595
>uh uhhh IT'S CONFUSING
>WE DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE T-TALKING ABOUT

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Have we already mentioned Korah and his bullshit egyptian treasures? During the Exodus, this guy had fifty camels that only carried the KEYS to the actual chests with the dosh he brought from Mizraim.

Also, anyone remembers the story about the father and son that hid in the cave from the romans for like twenty years studying torah and after they exited it people just died when these guys looked at them due to how PURE they were?

>>49987285
Because the one thing God doesn't have perfect knowledge on is human choice. This is what having free will means, and humans do have free will.
I'm afraid I don't know much more than that. Despite how much I wish, I do not have intimate knowledge on the deepest workings of God and Heaven.

Souls, not humans. Think of it less as "we are tiny gods" and more as "we are made of the same stuff as god." We can't do the same things that god can do, even though we're made of the same essence.

>>49987212
That´s is not the jews´ fault, that´s the fault of american Puritans andthe falut of Harvey james Kellog who populirised cricumscision as a means to discourage fapping because fappimg is bad, mm´kay.
On that note, I suppose fapping is Judaism as well, becau se you´re wasting life , but that´s not what Onan got punished over, he got punished for refusing to marry his brother´s wife and have kids with her (a levirate marriage as was the custom), right? Why did he have to father her kids, again? Aside from " be fruitful and multiply, I mean?

Also, there's that all the events that happened in Eden - creation of Adam, naming of everything, creation of Eve, the fruit of understanding and the exile - all happened in course of a single day.

>>49987330
The dude literally gave detailed, cited responses to all the contextless bullshit you threw at him. What more do you want?

>>49987212
Even if you were circumcised as an infant, you would be aware that a piece of it is missing, because this whole thing would have been explained to you as a child, at least if your family was properly following the proscriptions for teaching and explaining customs to children.

>>49987421
"is fapping a sin?" I meant

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>>49987330
It is confusing, but we know exactly what we're doing. That is, until a smarter rabbi comes along with a better explanation that shows we were wrong all along.

>>49987421
Like most things, Judaism has specific, well defined laws on masturbation and how it is good/bad/forbidden/etc.

>>49987445
It's believed that the "7 days of creation" actually took place over a period of several billion years. This isn't some modern interpretation either: Maimonides came up with it over 800 years ago.

>>49987471
Pic related, probably. I'm actually surprised that he took the time to copy-paste it all out instead of just posting the pic.
Here anon, you can have mine.

>>49987539
To defend the Jews, this is how All Semitic cultures thought back in the day.

And the Canadian Atheist argued "Muh morals"

>>49987539
Also, just for fun, I'm gonna explain some more of the bullshit that anon didn't mention.

>kethuboth 11b
whole passage refers to betrothals and dowrys. Virgins, obviously, are worth more and have better dowrys. This passage says that, when you are three years old, rape is so similar to a brutal beating, that you are still considered a virgin, even if raped at three
Proof: http://www.come-and-hear.com/kethuboth/kethuboth_11.html

>Yebamoth 59b
This was just rabbis talking about pointless minutia. Priests are forbidden from marrying hte divirced or the widowed, but there is nothing saying they can't marry those who slept with animals. That being said, those who slept with animals would be killed, so this entire debate is theoretical
Proof: http://www.come-and-hear.com/yebamoth/yebamoth_59.html

>Hagigah 27a
As I already said earlier in the thread, there is now Jewish hell. If they're talking about punishment in general, though, then what they're saying is "someone who would be punished (go to hell) was no true rabbi to begin with."

>Baba Mexia 59b
I think this is the silly story from earlier in the thread. Nobody's taking it seriously.

>Gittin 70a
The word Demon is not used/mistranslated. Same with epileptic. I don't get what's so damning about this phrase though.

>Gittin 57a
This whole thing is part of a story where a gentile is raising the dead (including Emperor Titus and the prophet Balam) and asking them what their punishment in the afterlife is. Some people think that Jesus is one of the people raised, but this is only one interpretation.

>Sanhedrin 43a
Meh. One man's miracles are another man's sorcery. This isn't necessarily an anti-christian sentiment, though; the sages tend to paint all the various cults from that period with a harsh brush, since it was their infighting that was instrumental to the razing of Jerusalem in 70CE.


All the other shit I've already covered, or is false/mistranslated/out of context/etc.

>>49987539
I've heard of the "it's not literally seven days" argument.

As a more secular minded individual I felt that was kinda bullshit because it felt like someone was trying to deny that the beginning of Genesis isn't some fantasy creation myth that has the freedom to be as implausible as it wants. The Torah isn't all indisputable fact where Moses literally smacked the shit out of a rock so hard it cried bitch tears for the Israelites to drink, sometimes it's just a fantasy epic with some useful lessons to teach and that's that.

But then again there are creationists out there in the world, so I guesd to some it matters how plausible the process sounds.

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>ITT

>>49987810
It's funny, people do similar with the Quran, Hadith and Sira.

>>49988035
Explain quotes from them when they're taken out of context?

>>49988221
Both taking out of and explaining context

Christians literally have killed off the less successful of the Jewish people with inquisitions, pogroms and various attacks. Only the most successful and rich Jews could survive.

Now take your typical bigot and show them a weirdly successful religious/ethnic group, and what do you expect? For many people, those more successful are the enemy because they feel others are privliged and come up with shitty conspiracy theories.

I'm not Jewish but honestly a bunch of the stuff on 4chan is shit from storm-front.

>>49987529
We're taught that it is. I've always had a problem with believing it, though, I just didn't really see a source for that in the Torah.

...Until a couple of days ago, something about Keri Layla happening and soldiers needing to go outside the walls and purify themselves.

>Like most things, Judaism has specific, well defined laws on masturbation and how it is good/bad/forbidden/etc.

>>49987890
>I've heard of the "it's not literally seven days" argument.
>As a more secular minded individual I felt that was kinda bullshit
Sure, you can believe that.... if you can tell me how there were days before the sun. There's no way to explain that without understanding that 'day' means 'period of time'.

>>49987539
>Like most things, Judaism has specific, well defined laws on masturbation and how it is good/bad/forbidden/etc.
When is masturbation good?

>>49988530
It also has to do with Christians resigning Jews to financial jobs because of the stigma associated with usury in Christians, which ended up in Jews having a reputation as moneylenders, jewelers, goldsmiths and penny-pinching storeowners because that's the only way they could make a living, being forbidden from owning land and many types of transactions.
To do finance well, you have to learn to read, and most Jews learned to read much better and earlier than non-Jews because reading the Torah is a much more important activity for Jews than reading the Bible is for Christians. On top of that, financial work and commerce teaches you how to deal with people and handle money, and guess what's needed in media?
When organized media became a global factor in the 1800's, the Jews were already almost universally qualified. They had savings, they had savvy, they had experience, they had the survivor's spirit, and most importantly, there was no one preventing them from entrepreneurship in such a completely new business. As such, the Jews had a free-for-all while the Gentiles were strongly limited in who could get in, because they'd been working in far different businesses and with different skills for centuries.
That's why modern media is a Jewfest, and that's why it's not a bad thing. Most media Jews are at the level where they hold Purim and make vague pro-Israel statements for the brownie points, and half of them probably eat bacon cheeseburgers when they're drunk.

>>49987810
>>Yebamoth 59b
>This was just rabbis talking about pointless minutia. Priests are forbidden from marrying hte divirced or the widowed, but there is nothing saying they can't marry those who slept with animals. That being said, those who slept with animals would be killed, so this entire debate is theoretical
It really does sound like /tg/.

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>>49987539
Saint Louis did nothing wrong.

>>49988666
This is pure fucking speculation on my part but watching old movies about show business always makes me suspect that the tradition of Jews in show business was a case of Jews getting forced out of "real jobs." Like, entertainment industry people always look like complete shit in old movies. Being an olden timey vaudeville person seems equivalent to being a professional horse race gambler or traveling toothpick salesman in both prestige and money.

Then movies exploded and Moneybags Johnson goes "Hey, we need a white person to put in the lead role, Dave is white enough, done, lunch break."

confirm or deny someone who is actually knowledgeable I want to see how good my bullshitting powers are

>>49987421
>>49987529
>>49988612
>>49988662
No, sorry I was wrong, mastrubation is very clearly zav which is bad (Leviticus 15,16) and maimonides also classifies what basically is erectile disffuntion as zav, and there also worse things:
>Maimonides describes the zav state as the weakening of the male reproductive system while the general health of the man is normal. The semen of the otherwise healthy man oozes out without stimulation, erection, or pleasure. The color of the discharge has a reddish hue and has a thin consistency.
What the fuck is that supposed to be, gonorrhea?

>>49988874
Masturbation is not Zav, what are you talking about? Jeez. Zav is a sickness.

>>49983220
In Genesis, Adam and Eve eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, right? After which, God starts panicking that if they were to eat the fruit of life and death they'd be more like Him, and sends them packing.

Later, when Cain kills Abel, God sends him away, and Cain goes on to father the first musicians/metallurgists/herdsmen (if I'm not mistaken) and founds the first city (or the first to be mentioned in Genesis).

Then there's the Tower of Babel, which was built solely so that the people could make a name for themselves. God then mentions a united humanity with only one language could do "anything", and has some angels meddle with their tongues.

With all this stated, can it be theorized that God is perhaps afraid of his creation? He doesn't want them to be like him, he sends them away when they learn to kill, and even the implication of doing "anything" is enough to supposedly spurn him into action against us. Maybe his pact with Abraham was done in the hope that he'd retain some amount of loyalty from humans.

I mean it all sounds edgy and HFY as hell, but I couldn't help but think this as I read through Genesis. At the very least them nomadic people sure hated city-folk.

>>49989045
>In Genesis, Adam and Eve eat of the fruit of knowledge of good and evil, right? After which, God starts panicking that if they were to eat the fruit of life and death they'd be more like Him, and sends them packing.
Nah, that's just what the snake said.

>>49988924
So it really is gonorrhea or some other nasty shit? That´s my fault for reading about it on a wiki I guess, but the first line says" impurity arising from abnormal seminal discharge from the male sexual organ". and technicaly you could say masturbation is an abnormal discharge, but I do not feel qualified to debate that. What is bad about masturbation, then?

>>49989078
My mistake, he panics that they have "already become like us" for knowing good/evil and then panics FURTHER about them eating the fruit of life and death.

>>49989081
Bleh. You realize that you're making me do actual research? I don't wanna do research, I wanna be lazy.

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>>49980360
based God knows how to take joke. I like this guy.

>>49989139
Okay, research done.

>The Tanakh does not explicitly prohibit masturbation.[11][12] Leviticus chapter 15 in the Law of Moses states that any male having a "flow" is ceremonially defiled, he must cleanse himself with water, This "flow" refers to ejaculation of semen (verse 32), whether through masturbation[13] or nocturnal emission.[13] This temporary ceremonial defilement isn't masturbation-specific, it also applies to intercourse among married heterosexual partners[13]

>"But why all these precautions? — Because otherwise one might emit semen in vain, and R. Johanan stated: Whosoever emits semen in vain deserves death, for it is said in Scripture."

>Judaism in general neither prohibits nor discourages female masturbation, although some authorities consider female masturbation as necessarily involving "impure thoughts".[4]

>The Talmud forbids male masturbation, as it leads to unnecessary spilling of semen, or the impure thoughts of women other than the man's lawful wife. This prohibition is derived from the Biblical narrative of Onan (Talmud Niddah 13a). The Talmud (ibid) likens the act to murder and idolatry. The wrath displayed by God toward Onan was invoked not through the act of spilling semen, but through disobedience to God's command for Onan to impregnate his brother's widow (see the story in Genesis 38:8-10). Others consider the death sentence excessive for failure to properly follow the laws of Levirate marriage — the Biblical option offered to those refusing a Levirate marriage was that the woman who was refused, would spit over the males shoe, after removing it from his foot. Because Onan's punishment was so much more severe, they argue that the spilling of semen was the relevant offense. Onan was not masturbating, but practising birth control by withdrawal.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judaism_and_masturbation

>>49989139
And I was hanging out on this thread all day instead of doing prep work for my bachelor´s thesis in anthropology, on the history of local Jews, incidentally. Do what you want, man.

Raba said: It is a man’s duty to drink on Purim until he cannot tell the difference between 'cursed be Haman' and 'blessed be Mordecai'.
Rabbah and R. Zera joined together in a Purim feast. They got drunk and Rabbah arose and cut R. Zera's throat. On the next day he prayed on his behalf and revived him. [Rabbah] said, “Next year come again and we’ll
celebrate together again.”
[R. Zera] replied: [No, thanks.] A miracle may not happen every time.
[Megillah 7b]

R. Nahman said: All foul language is forbidden except where directed at idolatry, in which case it is permitted…
R. Huna b. Manoah said in the name of R. Aha the son of R. Ika: A Jew is permitted to tell [an idolater], “Take your idol and stick it up your rear end.”
[Megillah 25b]

We learned: A young pigeon which is found on the ground within fifty cubits of a cote belongs to the owner of the cote; if found beyond fifty cubits from the cote, it belongs to the finder...
Rabbi Jeremiah raised the question: If one talon is within fifty cubits and the other beyond, how do we decide?
It was for asking this question that they kicked Rabbi Jeremiah out of the House of Study [Bet HaMidrash]. [Bava Batra 23b]

>>49989377
I´m liking Rebbah´s optimism, nothing like getting killed by accident, being revived by a miracle a saying let´s try again next time.

>>49988035
>>49988406
>3000 year old religion founded by Bronze-Age dirftarmers that's been steadily evolving since its inception
>1000 year old religion founded by a conqueror and specifically designed to establish theocracies; has barely evolved since its schism.
>the same thing
Besides, the bad muslims aren't the ones who try to justify their religion. The bad ones are the ones who think that it doesn't need to be justified

>>49988666
You, sir, hit the nail right on the head. Well done
>Most media Jews are at the level where they hold Purim and make vague pro-Israel statements for the brownie points, and half of them probably eat bacon cheeseburgers when they're drunk
A little too on the head. Ultra-rich secular jews are the worst kinds of jews, and words cannot describe how much I hate those fucking kikes.

>>49989045
Is god afraid of us? Probably not. I think God's just trying to keep us away from anything that would dead-end the progress to mankind's purpouse: repairing the world. Like, the tower of Babel? That was a dead end because a nation that can build a tower to god quickly becomes vain and thinks itself perfect, and would do nothing to fix the world.

As for the garden of eden, quite a bit of a mess. For starters, Adam and Eve were not the first humans, but were instead the first humans to be aware of god. We know this because, when Cain is punished, he's affraid others will kill him for being a kinslayer.
Then, there's the belief that Adam and Eve would have been given the fruit from both trees, if only they had waited for god to give them the fruit. I don't particularly like this interpretation, since I don't believe mankind was meant to live in paradise. Like I said above, the point of Man is to make perfect a purposefully imperfect world, probably to show the benefits of free will.

>>49989480
Nothing should get in the way of a good party!

R. Ishmael son of R. Jose was walking on a road when he met a man
carrying a load of sticks. The man put the sticks down, rested, and then
said to [R. Ishmael], "Load me up." [as required by Ex. 23:5]
R. Ishmael [who was rich and overweight] asked: "How much are the
sticks worth?"
The man answered: "Half a zuz,".
Rabbi Ishmael paid him the half zuz and said “Hefker!” [meaning: I declare
these sticks ownerless, so that anyone who takes takes them is not a
thief].
The man said, “I claim ownership of these ownerless sticks. Now [to
Rabbi Ishmael]: Load me up!
Rabbi Ishmael gave him another half zuz and again declared the sticks
ownerless.
Seeing that the man was again about to claim them again, he added, "I
have declared the sticks ownerless except to you."
But [the Rabbis asked]: Can something be declared ownerless with a
condition attached? No, but Rabbi Ishmael [had to stop the man and] did
it with mere words. [Bava Metzia 30b]


The Emperor proposed to R. Tanhum, Come, let us all be one people.
The rabbi answered, Very well, but we are circumcised and cannot
possibly become like you [because our circumcision cannot be undone].
So why don’t YOU become circumcised like us?
The Emperor replied: You have spoken well. Nevertheless, anyone who
gets the better of the king [in debate] must be thrown to the lions. So they
threw [the rabbi] to the lions, but they did not eat him.
7
An unbeliever remarked [to the Emperor]: The reason they did not eat him
is that they are not hungry.
[To test this theory, the Emperor had the unbeliever] thrown to the lions,
who ate him. [Sanhedrin 39a]

>>49989545
I fucking love rabbinical troll stories.

>>49989545

Do you have the one about the guy who sued the other guy for hitting him in the face with the shovel, and the rabbis said he's lucky the guy didn't hit him more times with it.? I only vaguely remember it anymore.

>>49987084
tarot is an italian card game

>>49989045
>>49989515
On an unrelated note, you've reminded me of a story I once read and quite like.

Once upon a time, a man dies. He's goes to heaven and is brought before god, who says that he is going to be reincarnated, and would like to speak to him a bit before it happens.

"Do you speak to everyone who dies, God, or just me?" asks the man. "Just you," says god.

As it turns out, the man is going to be reincarnated to someone who lived in the past.

"That's possible?" asks the man. God nods.

"Does that mean that I've been at one time, two people at once?" asks the man. God explains.

Not only has the man been two people at once, the man has been everyone. Every human being who has ever lived and will ever lived has had the same soul: his. Every saint, every sinner, and every simple farmer who lived and died in obscurity has always been the same person, and there is no-one else.

"you don't remember your past lives, but you have learned from them," explains God.

"But why?" asks the man. "Why am I everyone, and what have I been learning?"

And God says "Once, I was like you, and just like you, I didn't understand. And just like you, I learned from my lives, and I understood in the end. We'll talk about this more when next we meet."

>>49984031
>He's wise, kind, and funny like no man I've ever met. As an example, even though he's diabettic and has a notorious love for sweet food, he doesn't use insulin: he controls his diet through sheer force of will alone.
Very cool post. Particularly these two sentences.

>>49989515
>a nation that can build a tower to god
Ah, but it wasn't a tower to God or Heaven or anything. It was done to make a name for themselves. You know, "Hey, come to the valley, we've got a fucking huge tower here!".

>>49984115
Learn Hebrew. Ancient Hebrew, but you'll need the modern too. There's a heckuva difference in language and in culture between the origins of the religion and now. Try getting a divinity degree.

>>49989834
The tower could be 10 feet tall. As long as people BELIEVE that it reaches the heavens - as long as people BELIEVE that Man is as great as God, then the tower is dangerous.

>>49989834
It was built as a tower to fight god.

>>49989880
>>49989918
Nowhere does it state anyone believed as such, it wasn't competing with God. God said "A humanity united by a single language is capable of anything." and then dealt with the people who were building it. Nothing more. Everything else is speculation.

>>49983220
Do you browse /pol/? Do you have fun there? What does goyim mean in your language? Do you actually recoil when called a Jew?

How do you feel when Jerusalem was ransacked by filthy Muslim hordes?

>>49984170
>I don't know Indian and other religions well enough; do they have multiple major gods, or all equal gods?
Due to lack of study at the time and illiteracy, it's not well known if there was one or many. The great spirit who is now well known may be a bastardisation with the christian god. Even in the south pacific, which was not well visited for several hundred years after the americas and so had less time to be influenced by evangelists before modern, mostly 20th century but sometimes based on 19th century written sources, anthropological studies were conducted, it is impossible to determine if the parallels between a chief native god and the christian god are incidental or the result of preaching being adapted and adopted as traditional.

>>49989921
Of course it's not actually written down! half the story is oral tradition and apocrypha.

>>49989924
I ocasionally browse /pol/. Most of the time tho, I go to tumblr and bully autistic SJW cucks and BLM faggots with the small alt-right crowd there.
Goy litterally means "nation," or "someone of the nations." Jews themselves are sometimes called goy in the bible, even.
I do not recoil when I'm called a Jew. If Uncle Adolf taught me anything, it's to always be proud of your race.

I think that the ransacking of Jerusalem was a travesty, and that kebab should be removed from more than just Serbia.

>>49989921
Mm, seems dickish.

>>49989924
>Do you browse /pol/?
Occasionally. They tend to be either dumbasses or talking over my head.

>What does goyim mean in your language?
Nations. Jews are a goy.

>>49989924
>How do you feel when Jerusalem was ransacked by filthy Muslim hordes?
Haha, it's ours now, once more! Muhuhahahahaa