/dcg/ Dropzone/Dropfleet Commander General

>>49919598
1st for I have no idea how to paint and my spaceships are going to look like they were colorschemed by clowns

>>49919647
What race?

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Painting ucm today guys, I'm the guy with the table. I've been playing unpainted for months.

>>49919654
2 player starter set
and I have four days to finish assembling and painting it

>>49919698
That's okay
Both the UCM and the Scourge are clowns anyways :^)

>>49919705
;-;

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>>49919785
Praise the sphere, breh

>>49919799
Hey, didn't my heavy detachment utterly wreck your ride last game I played?
Railguns tore right through that heavy walker.
A touch of orbital strike directed from my comfy chair in a Kodiak to finish it off.

Might wanna spend some more time training for combat instead of lifting, Abandonist.

>>49919799
It's not my fault there's no Shaltari/PHR starter set. PHR were the only ones I liked the look of to begin with anyway.

>>49919696
>I've been playing unpainted for months.

For shame sir!

That is a lot of models to paint up. I like the little howitzers you made.

>>49919937

Battletech artillery 10mm, I didnt want to buy the Longbows and I had some sitting around.

Hello fellow humanz, let me halp you reconquestor please.

>>49921157
Scourge pls go

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>>49921157
>>49921175
No I am ordinary human look at my human face

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Also, while we're on the topic of DFC book art... looks like the Scourge defense batteries take the form of some sort of Obelisk of Light.

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>>49921227
So Europa is where the Scourge source most of their fresh water from, but where's their giant sunscreen factory located?

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PHR Defense batteries are mobile walkers.
That APM is paying off with the siege mode.

>>49921274
Post the Shaltari defense batteries, and the UCM's if they're different from the big laser turrets.

>>49921296
Shaltari don't have defense batteries, the Voidgates do that for them.
UCM deploys Aegis-4 platforms, just like the scenery piece.

>>49921311
Ah yeah, I forgot about the voidgates doing that.

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>>49921274
Hot damn, I want one of those on my table.

I've been spoiled by MiniWargaming's battlereps.
They move and roll dice on camera.
There is no going back after that. :'(

>>49921461
>They move...on camera
Who the fuck else's batreps have you been watching, the weeping angels'?

>>49921249
Oh shit we NOD now!

>>49921461
I feel you on that one. Im lucky that Infinity has a bunch of batreps that do this.

>>49921508
Many DZC batreps I have encountered just show the aftermath of each players turn.

>>49922301
>Oh shit we NOD now!
More than one beam though, there are entire lines of Occulus arrays down the flanks if I am seeing that correctly.

>>49921508
Hehe.
Though your joke was funny, the sad part is that the majority of miniatyre battle-reps are done by simply showing still pictures of the "end of round" set-up and summarizing what happened that round.
It's quick, easy and most people are content with that.

>>49921461

I asked Ash Barker a while back if he would get into DZ. He said once dropfleet hits retail he would probably buy some and film some stuff. Apparently Owen plays DZ, but doesn't film it. Ash was saying since Owen is a space ship fanatic and Ash loves the models DF batreps would be inevitable and they might jump into DZ after.

>>49921264
WAS where they source their water from

:)

>tfw realizing what I have to do for the Shenlong's brow ridge
why dave

>>49923033
Give in to the autism and detail, anon.

>>49922610
>Ash
>Owen

Nah, no thanks.

>>49923033
As a PHR player, what DO you have to do for the Shenlong's brow ridge?

>>49923357
Get infested by a horrible jelly parasite and then spend the next 200 years watching helplessly through your eyes as it does whatever disgusting things jellys do.

>>49923197
I see you have terrible taste.

Good luck with that

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>>49921249
bwooooo-BZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!!!

>>49923357
You know the phr tailfin spines?
Take two of those, put them right next to each other, and then stick a third one between them so that it's held up by the first two and doesn't touch the ship.

>>49924124
>renegade
Muh nigga

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I've got my test model for my Shaltari scheme done now. I'm pretty happy with it, the core looks a little bit like a basketball though so I should probably figure out a way to fix that.

>>49924239
Looks pretty good, anon. FloridaKeys/10

>>49924239
Out of curiosity, how much did you assemble before painting? I'm about to start painting mine up and don't know how much I can get away with putting together first before it gets annoying to paint.

>>49924203
I really need to pick that game back up. Now that they added in Tiberium Sun units.

>>49924163
.>>49923357
Wasn't that bad, you just glue it together before you put it on the ship. It even has joints you can use

>>49924297
with the smaller ships they have so many gaps in them i didn't bother to do any sub assemblies.
I learned the hard way though, if you're painting scourge leave the damn fins off the sides of the ships.

Hey, finally got a look at the Dropfleet rulebook and have a few questions that someone may know the answer to:

(first some number typos)
Do Shaltari Fighters provide 4 or 5 Point Defense?
Do Military Sectors have 4 or 6 Hull?
Are PHR Battlecruisers really Thrust 10? That seems strangely high given the rest of the faction's Thrust values

(rules issues)
Do you roll Point Defense against each individual weapon? Or against all the Close Action from a single group? (based on reading I lean towards the latter)

How do you resolve Impel when firing on one target by multiple ships? If you inflict four damage can you turn the target twice? Must you resolve each weapon separately?

Do you remove a spike from ships on standard orders at the beginning or the end of their activation? (relevant for Bloom weapons)

The 'Low Level' rule on the Medea seems redundant with the Bombardment rule. That said, when exactly are you allowed to Bombard? In some places the book states that you may only bombard from Low Orbit, whereas in others it says both Low Orbit and Atmosphere.

>>49924398

>Do Shaltari Fighters provide 4 or 5 Point Defense?
We don't know, but we're going with 5 PD until hawk says otherwise.

>Do Military Sectors have 4 or 6 Hull?
No idea, I'd go with the higher value since they're military sectors.

>Are PHR Battlecruisers really Thrust 10? That seems strangely high given the rest of the faction's Thrust values
I personally think so, just because of the huge engines they've got.


>Do you roll Point Defense against each individual weapon? Or against all the Close Action from a single group? (based on reading I lean towards the latter)
The latter.

>How do you resolve Impel when firing on one target by multiple ships? If you inflict four damage can you turn the target twice? Must you resolve each weapon separately?
You resolve each weapon separately; if two Aquamarines do two damage amongst each other, then you don't turn the target.

>Do you remove a spike from ships on standard orders at the beginning or the end of their activation? (relevant for Bloom weapons)
I believe Hawk has said that it's at the beginning.

>The 'Low Level' rule on the Medea seems redundant with the Bombardment rule. That said, when exactly are you allowed to Bombard? In some places the book states that you may only bombard from Low Orbit, whereas in others it says both Low Orbit and Atmosphere.
You can bombard from low orbit and atmosphere with any bombardment weapon, except that the atmosphere accuracy penalty takes precedence. The exception is in the case of the Medea, which is not affected by that penalty.

>>49924398
I doubt the Leonidas would be worth the cost over a regular cruiser if it lacked the speed to line break and thereby make use of its full broadsides.

As for the Scipio, since it shares the Bell's launch capacity its design space comes down to paying for increased aggression or increased durability. Might as well make things interesting by adding a bit of both.

>>49924478
>>The 'Low Level' rule on the Medea seems redundant with the Bombardment rule. That said, when exactly are you allowed to Bombard? In some places the book states that you may only bombard from Low Orbit, whereas in others it says both Low Orbit and Atmosphere.
>You can bombard from low orbit and atmosphere with any bombardment weapon, except that the atmosphere accuracy penalty takes precedence. The exception is in the case of the Medea, which is not affected by that penalty.

But the Bombardment rule explicitly says that it does not suffer penalties to its lock value from orbital layers or atmosphere.

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>>49924239
>the core looks a little bit like a basketball though so I should probably figure out a way to fix that.

Are you suggesting the Shaltari are incabable of sweet dunks?

https://youtu.be/psiqAeKXXWM

>>49924478
> Low level

Currently you don't get any penalities for shooting orbital bombartment from atmo, but you should. Dave said something about "otherwise the Charybis would be the best ship in the game" if it could hide in atmo and shoot accurate bombardment.

>>49924699
Confirmed, I was talking to Dave about this yesterday.

How does shooting at ships in atmosphere work, you just hit them on a 6 regardless of what layer you're on? and if you're firing out of atmosphere it's a 6 as well?

>>49924921

Yep. Unless you have the Air to Air trait on your guns. You also can't attack layers above you when in Atmosphere unless they have the escape velocity rule.

>>49924610

Bombardment says does not suffer firing penalties for firing THROUGH orbital layers including atmosphere. So it ignores the +1 to hit from orbital layers and does not automatically gain the 6+ to hit from firing at the ground

What fucks it over is that it lacks the Low Level rule which allows it to fire FROM atmosphere without the 6+ To hit, which Dave said was very deliberate

>>49924987
thanks

>>49924699
>>49924874
Interesting. That does kind of make sense. I was poking at some list ideas the other day and a realized pack of Charybdis can just wipe a sector off the map every turn.

>>49924987
I can't find anything that doesn't allow you to shoot from atmo into higher orbits, you just hit on 6+. The atmo section even says "into or out of".

>>49923197
Ash is by far the most entertaining person to make batreps ive seen, why the hate.

>>49919696
>tfw never painted minis before and I now have two starters and some other models to flesh out the armies

Fuck I know I need to but I'm kinda frightened.

So, the 2player starter set comes with some prepared name stickers for scourge and UCM.

Do the other faction starter kits have the same? Can someone post the PHR or Shaltari ones?

>>49925490
yea they do. the Shaltari one is;
Big
Waxing Moon, Warhold, Ages Scarlet Azure Phantom, Cerulean, Erie, Clairvoyance, Aeons Asunder, Elder Warrior, Black Immortal, Forever in Wisdom, Starpride, Mind's Eye, Woemaker, Supreme, One True Ending, Unending, Void's Needle, Stormcrow, Scythe of Ages, Lord of Slaughter, Nomad, Cobalt Shadow, Crimson Monolith, Limitless, Eternity of Carnage, Eternal Nightfall, Fatebringer, Perpetual, Revenant.
Small
Aetherwind, Rainmaker, Dreamscape, Sunrise, Cacophony, First of Bastet, Corona, Lamenter, Emancipator, Stark Lanter, Talisman, Immortaliser, Blood's Flow, Shade of Horus, Significant Fire

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>>49925416

I was previously a professional commission painter

The more you do it, the better you get :D Learn, practice, practice, find good music, get creative, and practice!

>pic is current dzc wip

>>49925597
Yeah, I know but it's daunting just looking at all of my minis. That, and I don't know what scheme to go for or any techniques really. I'm basically just going to put a coat over everything for the main color then do the little highlights like the scourge eyes/gun and the UCM's railguns.

Also, that Bear you've got there gives me an idea for the extra bears and invaders I've got. I think I'm going to paint them as well, but with battle scars and use them as terrain or marking critical locations/objectives in the open.

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Is it WIP time?
Rate my base colors, Colonials.

>>49925948

Dank

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>>49925788

>prime, thin paints, drybrush, washes, WOW LOOK TABLETOP

> pic is first cut Monster category in Golden Daemon. I'm >>49925597 guy

I fucking sucked whne I started, shitty ultramarines, multiple toothpaste painted armies. Just get some music (I'd recommend podcasts) and you have to start somewhere. Honestly go for a base coast + drybrush and give it a wash. When I started painting we had inks. Washes are EZ MODE

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>>49919799
>Not resistance
>Not keking into the sunset as a E13 shot does literally nothing except turn your Truck into a convertible
Get gud.

>>49926144
>Mfw Resilience let's me keep a clutch Focal Point after eating a Hades Railgun
RESISTANCE STRONK

>>49926144
checked and witnessed.

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>>49926144
>Mfw a group of 5 Occ Vets in a building dropped a Hades that was at full health
Speaking of, who else sad we can't into space? I'm probably gonna use looted UCM ships.

>>49926269
>Salakhan manages to loot a few bulk landers and takes over a sanfran

>>49926286
>You will never force UCM out of a spaceport for Lord Salakhan
>You will never drive your Alexander through their gate, opening fire on them in a raid for their ships
>You will never take your technicals to the stars
Why even live /dcg/?

>>49926315
Honestly, I guess you better not.

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>>49926331
>Not working for the single greatest threat to the Scourge

I have the aesthetic sense of a particularly wet rock.

Assuming I got vallejo prussian blue for my UCM basecoat, should I modulate the rest of my paints if I want to go for a very similar, but bluer, scheme to the standard?

Or can I go primarily prussian blue, white in places, silver for guns, etc and still have it look alright?

>>49926351
>Not Krell, the man who literally wrassels Scourge in his giant Walker
Stop posting

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>>49926401
Krell's ridiculous 'giant monster killing' robot has me like...

>>49926530
>not the straya version
for fucking shame

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>>49926557
I gotcha senpai

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>>49926530
>>49926583
Striker is best robit.
RIP ;_;7

>>49926054
I don't know what any of that means. See my issue?

>>49927475
Oh jesus, anon.

Go look up painting tutorials on youtube and don't fucking touch ANYTHING with a brush until you can read that post and understand all of it.

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>>49926054
>When I started painting we had inks.

>mfw I still have a bottle of Chestnut Ink I'm hoarding like a precious gem

This stuff is liquid gold - painted up my whole Covenant force for Dystopian Wars with it. I miss being able to buy them.

>>49927475
The basic method of painting is to layer paints on top so in the cracks you have darker colors and in the tips you have lighter colors. This will create an illusion of depth in your models and have them stand out.

Prime: Use a primer to put a thin layer down on the model. Primer is a paint that is formulated to stick to an object. If you paint naked without primer your paint wont stick and may rub off.

Thin Paints: The next step is actually putting down your base coat. This is the primary color you model will be in. So if you are painting a guy you base coat his clothes one color his skin another. The thing here is you paint has to be thinned with water. If you paint too thick, you will clog details and you will be able to see the paint on the model and it will look shit. It is better to go real thin and paint multiple coats than to paint on thick.

Drybrush: This is a painting method to get highlights. Basically you dip in your brush then wipe off like 90% on a paper towel. Then very lightly flick your brush over the model quickly. What happens is only the raise areas will pick up paint which will make the illusion of highlights.

Washes: Sometimes called shades. These are ultra thinned down paint inks. Because it is so watery the paint will run into the cracks of the model and darken them. They will also darken standard surfaces.

So the process is prime, base coat, dry brush and wash. Then maybe add some layers of slightly lighter colors on details.

>>49927475
>>49928034

There are a lot of tutorials online. The painting tutorials that games workshop puts out are pretty great. (its their only good product now) I don't really recommend buying their paints in bulk, but the videos are great.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2MOmj-D9uo - Priming
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKhIQ1TL2FM&index=52&list=PL3lM6q3XSpms-TJ_KfVt6RkBHM0yO-F8M - Vehicle from start to finish
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l0k8TeHgeA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T43ULH2MYP4&list=PLEaPE4sLDA7s - Another big vehicle with some tips and tricks.

26V0v6SepDFiznb3y6hx&index=40 - Some fancy shade tricks in this one

>>49927475
Go to >>/wip/
Spend a week or two watching all of Saint Duncan's videos
And remember, for the love of God, to thin your fucking paints.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m3p_VuPIS2c

>>49928058
For reference, this is Saint Duncan.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0I3qSITHNo

>>49927475
Once you have learned about those basic principles, you can apply them to your ships. Painting a decent table top ready fleet is easier because of the scale.

http://volleyfirepainting.blogspot.com/2016/10/dropfleet-commanderfirst-look.html

>>49928083
Oh geeze, that was a poor choice of video. Literally everything else he does is great.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13uHHx3jCwA

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Found this on the FB group, that's a pretty fucking sweet Echo conversion.

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>>49928230
>>49928236

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>>49927562
If you're willing to experiment, fountain pen inks are wonderful.

>>49927542>>49928034
>>49928047
>>49928058
>>49928121

Yeah this is why I've been pretty apprehensive about it. I've literally never done this before but I want to and really have no idea where to start.

Thanks for the links and advice, anons, hopefully I can get started on it soon after my cert exam.

>>49928359
Honestly, the best thing you can do is buy ten metal space marines off ebay, and just start trying however you want.

Once you've painted all of them, select the best one, and strip the paint off the other nine.
Once you've painted those nine, select the best one, and strip the paint off the other eight.

Repeat until you've got a lineup of ten iteratively painted marines, and you can see the progression of how you've improved, if at all.
Take a picture, strip all ten, and do it all over again until you're comfortable with the basics.

>>49928395
That sounds like a pretty good idea actually. I don't really want to fuck up my actual minis by practicing so thanks.

>>49928395
>>49928432
Throwing in my 2 cents. Metal is the keyword here. It is super easy to just dunk them in acetone and scrub the paint right off. Plastics are much harder and time consuming to strip.

>>49928454
Depends on the plastic; I know Hawk's plastic (NOT their resin) is perfectly fine in 91% Isopropyl, and that stuff will strip pretty much everything in a few hours with a toothbrush. You might need a second soak to clean out crevices, though.

>>49928359
also keep in mind that at this scale, you can get away with a solid base coat, and then using a wash or series of washes followed by a couple of highlights to achieve a really great looking effect. Precision more than anything is going to help the most.

Guys... I've been reading battle reports and it sounds like most battles just end up with blobs of ships in the middle of the map.

This is what I've feared.

What are you thoughts?

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>>49928832
Play smaller points value games?

Fiddle with the objectives?

>>49928252
so which daily was this from? Looks like it might be a fun one to watch.

>>49929014
Somewhere in here? It was his Echo Giant Control deck https://youtu.be/De_qZiw687A?t=195

>>49928832
Where have you been reading them?

>>49929122
youtube, a few people have made videos

>>49929126
All I can find is that german dude. Am I retarded?

>>49924478
>Do you roll Point Defense against each individual weapon? Or against all the Close Action from a single group? (based on reading I lean towards the latter)
The latter.

>How do you resolve Impel when firing on one target by multiple ships? If you inflict four damage can you turn the target twice? Must you resolve each weapon separately?
You resolve each weapon separately; if two Aquamarines do two damage amongst each other, then you don't turn the target.

I'd say that would be contradicting yourself.
If you fire all CAW as a group or "single unit" I'd say you'd do the same to a group of ships firing an Impel weapon.
>If 2 ships with impel pool their damage and get the required amount, you get the impel effect.

>>49929201
Triggering an effect is different,and the impel rule specifically says "inflicts X damage(after saving throws have been taken) with a _weapon_ with the Impel (x) rule, they may turn the target up to 45 degrees..."

Note how it calls out the weapon, in comparison the PD only mentiones "damage recieved" and nothing about thee weapon itself.

Using your logic, if I crit with 1 out of 3 BTLs all of them should now automatically crit for the next rolls, and that is hella dumb.

How would, if it could, a distortion burn through work?

>>49928832
i think you need to calm down and breath, the number of games of this that have been played as well as the meta for the game is not well established, especially not in whatever area your in. Its too early to say its going to always devolve into a center furball.

IF 4 months from now thats all thats going on then you can panic.

>>49929560
Agreed. I imagine once we shake out a meta, we can start to make some decisions on whether or not it's balanced or just a clusterfuck. Honestly, for Scourge I can see a couple of viable strats of getting those CAW cruisers and just silent running them up to objectives since you know that's where the enemy is going.

PHR look like either circling around or diving straight through the middle.

UCM look like general slow advance and supporting fire for their objective scorers.

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I pretty much imagine a burnthrough laser exchange followed by CAW attack to look exactly like this video for my glorious space reconquerors.

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>>49929717
Wrong WEBM, oops!
This one's a LOT more grim.

>>49929717
>>49929732
These two are like... the most diametric opposite depictions of space combat possible.

>>49929732
Poor space krauts and space Americans.

>>49927562
Windsor and Newton Inks are what those GW inks were based on, as far as I'm aware W&N still make the correct shade of ink.
I believe W&N Nut Brown is what you're looking for.

>>49927542
I disregarded that advice.
When I just started out in high-school i tried first painting skeletons without base or primer, then I tried using wash as thin-paint and Thin-paints as wash.
It wasn't pretty.

>>49929732
I fucking love LoGH. But yeah, the fluff for DZC and DFC is fucking brutal. Hell, one blurb from DZC talks about how the Scourge's plasma rifles burn a hole into someone's chest then cooks them from the inside. Fucking Shaltari have microwave guns. Flamethrowers are a common weapon (maybe not mechanically, but in the fluff).

The Olympus fluff talks about like a thousand fucking ships being destroyed over weeks of combat. Burnthrough lasers can slice right through ships. Ships can burn up in atmo. Fires can destroy ships from the inside. Plasma volleys and microwave guns. Massive fucking slugs slamming into ships. Hell, the destroyed table has a "distortion event" where space-time gets fucking warped. Imagine beings fucking stuck on a wreck of a ship where reality starts to warp around you.

Fuck that shit man.

>>49928432
To add to what's already been said, set yourself realistic goals. If you expect your first mini to look amazing, you'll be disappointed. My progress hasn't been meteoric, but I regularly look back at things I did a year ago and am stunned by how much better I've got.

Also, invest in decent brushes. Doesn't have to be crazy money, but a brush that holds its point and lets paint flow nicely is a pleasure to paint with and will help you paint neatly. Mine cost me £3.50.
Don't get conned into buying half a dozen different sizes as well. I do 90% of my painting with a number 2 brush. Because it holds its point it's fine for most detail work. I've got a larger old brush I use for drybrushing and a very fine one for tiny / hard to reach details.

>>49928832

A lot of things got changed from the beta test because of that.

In the beta test for instance holding objective clusters was scored at the end of every turn, now it's just on turn 4 and 6.

The beta test only had 1 scenario for testing, the full rules have a lot more that place those clusters in different spots putting emphasis into different places on the board.

The beta test also had people playing 2-3000pt games on an area that was way too small for them. Or people who were idiots and used the phenetuc "uhhh" as a replacement for the comma and got RIGHT on my fucking nerves.

>>49929241

I get it.

Lemme clarify.

When you get hit by a weapon you save against EACH individual point of damage. Each weapon attacks seperately but you don't start rolling Armour dice until ALL the attacks are made and the damage totalled up.
The PD step occurs at the start of THIS phase. So you'd have your 2 Stryx's and Djinns do all their CAW attacks and once they were done you would THEN start reducing them with Point Defence.
Think of them as another form of Armour Roll.

>>49929241
I can see how you should roll each BTL seperatly, as it would be a clusterfuck to roll all of them at the same time.
But I also feel that it goes against the whole schtick of grouping up the same-classed vehicles for easy group-attacks.

Full book scan - when ?

>>49930440
Unless you use different coloured dice for each BTL of course.

>>49930507
>not having multiple sets of dice for everything from d4s to d100s

>>49930811
Oh I do, believe you me.
but then again;
>The rules state that you need to own dice of multiple colours in order to play properly.

Dave has done a demo game on BOW. It just got posted.

>>49930890
Post link to bump the thread?

>>49930924
I am dumb

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89Q-ZxNF94

>>49929732
What is this?

>>49931213
It's called "Anime" and it is a really popular medium of entertainment which originated in Japan in the early years of television.

>>49931213
>>49931262
The non austitic answer is: Legends of Galactic Heroes

>>49931276
The non-autistic answer is further up in the thread, directly linked twice now thanks to you.
I hope you enjoy helping people who doesn't even bother to check the thread nor the post-references.

I'm thinking about picking up a starter box for DZC, which leads to two questions:

1) Did they ever fix the detail drop with the plastic starters?
2)Who does grav tanks the best?

>>49931484
1) No
2) Scourge have better (but short-ranged) guns but Shaltari are more survivable thanks to PC.

>>49931484
Grav tanks?
Shaltari have Gravity tanks that looks like 4-legged spiders that use enemy mass and armor as damage.

But Scourge and by a small fraction PHR have hoover-tanks.

>>49931338
Some of us may not have known what LoGH stands for

>>49928230
>>49928236
Interesting idea for the corvette.

>>49931507
>>49931515

So after combing through the unit entries I think I'm going to go with shaltari - they have a much better spread of grav tanks, whereas the Scourge and PHR seem to have them playing second fiddle to walkers.

Thanks for the info.

>>49931541
Neither did I. But since it was the first thing said that had any coherency with the bosted webm, i right clicked that motherfucker and clicked "Search google for LoGH."
>Guess what the first hit is.

>>49931765
>Guess what math function you get when google knows you really like math

>>49919647
if they're anything like FSA models drybrushing should work. Basecoat, drybrush, then flat paint the plating and highlight it when done.

>>49930964

>GROUPS pool their CAW hits
>BATTLEGROUPS don't

That clears some things up.

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>>49932282
So djinn swarms are legit, providing they're all in the same group?

Also two-three strix cruisers in a group will be quite something.

My pledge finally arrived, on the plus side this is the most sprues I've ever seen in my life, on the minus side the acrylic objective markers are missing.

>>49932496

Those are supposed to come later along with the scourge station.

What is your pledge level?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j89Q-ZxNF94

Demogame played by the lord of resin himself.

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Tfw I'll crack out some chestnut ink at the end

Otherwise layered metals after this picture and trying to figure out where I want what before I wash and weather

>>49931832
Dry brushing before base coat? What?

>>49933380
>Dave rolls BTL for his Berlin against the Wyvern
>double 2s
>Dave rolls number of attack for CAW against Wyvern
>1
Poor Dave

>>49933694
Nice illustration that Shit Happens when wargaming, and a useful reminder for those that assume their berlin (or whatever) will always do X damage and put a spike on its target.

>>49933839
Pretty much. BTLs strike me as particularly swingy weapons. They don't have many shots and they're not super accurate, but they also get useful bonuses and lots of damage potential.

>>49933694
>weapons free Moscow
>only 3 hits out of the 8 from the heavies
DAVE
PLEASE

>>49933922
It's kind of funny that the scourge, who normally have the fewest dice and thus the swingiest/spikiest weapons, have BTLs that can throw more dice than any other race.

>>49934011
That mode doesn't get flash, so that might have something to do with it.

And speaking of furnace cannons, what's up with the battleship versions? One mode is better than the cruiser equivalent while the other is unchanged, I'm pretty sure the Dragon has the wrong lock values and things are just generally weird.

>>49933380
>that Wyvern explosion
>both Toulons get fucking fried
Neat

>>49934231
That was a really bad play on Dave's part.

He should have kept driving them forward and got past the Wyvern.

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>>49934231
This happened to me yesterday.

>drive heavily damaged Orion almost into B2B with an Ifrit, a Wyvern, and four accompanying frigates
>weapons free, deal a fair chunk of damage to the Wyvern
>dude retaliates on his activation by station keeping and firing his massive burnthrough 8 deathlaser at point blank
>Orion goes up in a spectacular 6" distortion bubble
>Wyvern, and three frigates are instantly scrubbed from existence
>final frigate is crippled and loses another 3 hull points, exploding
>Ifrit is way past crippled, reactor overloads, catches alight, and dies to fire next turn
>opponent groans heavily

HMS Leonine served me well, if only for a short time.

>>49934714
>>Orion goes up in a spectacular 6" distortion bubble
>>Wyvern, and three frigates are instantly scrubbed from existence
>>final frigate is crippled and loses another 3 hull points, exploding
>>Ifrit is way past crippled, reactor overloads, catches alight, and dies to fire next turn
>>opponent groans heavily
WITNESSED

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>>49934749
>>49934714

File: WITNESSED.jpg (173KB, 1912x792px) Image search: [Google]

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>>49934714
>>49934749

>>49932472

Well, to be fair, you would expect so considering it's the same price cost as a Battleship and an even higher tonnage.

>>49934749
>>49934782
>>49934822
It was pretty great.

The same guy that had this happen to him did something similar to someone else's Moscow in a previous game. It stripped his Shelong down to 1 Hull, so he went ramming speed, pulled it off, and got a 4" distortion out of the Moscow's catastrophic damage roll that took out the Jakartas/Tapeis nearby.

Chain reactions seem to happening a lot right now. This is the only time I've seen anyone ram, though.

>>49932472
Well, you could get up a 18 Djinns in one group, due to how all ships of the same class in a battlegroup group up together.

>>49934921
>due to how all ships of the same class in a battlegroup group up together.
Wut?

>>49934714
Reminds me of the bfg battle report, IN vs Tau. Tau get mediocre leadership rolls, IN get awful. Tau get good shooting, IN get awful. Then the IN cruisers start going up spectacularly and crippling/igniting Tau ships left and right to pull out a modest Imperial win.

>>49934944
Yupp, check under group.

http://i.4cdn.org/tg/1476877136996.jpg

The group stat (page 37) calls it only being used during fleet building.

>>49935376
Shieeet

>18 Djinn firing at something at once
SHIEEET

>>49935442
http://i.imgur.com/eL2HDiC.gif

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>>49935442
>18d6+36 shots
That just seems excessive.

>>49935376
>>49934944
>>49934921

Well. Unless the man who actually invented this game was doing it wrong for the whole demo game over on BoW. That's NOT how it works.

Groups combine their firepower. Battlegroups do not. You move and fire with one group at a time in a battlegroup.
You will have to settle with your 6D6+12 Attack dice from each Group.

>>49935587
Yeah, but the rules say that all ships of the same type within a battlegroup are formed into one group. If you have three groups of six Djinn, those all become a single group of eighteen Djinn.

Look at the example; it says six Toulons in a group; you can't take six Toulons in a group while list building, so it's a combination of some number of groups of Toulons.

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>>49935587


Yes, but if you look at the page I linked, it literally says "All ships of the same class in a battlegroup automatically form a group together." >>49935376


And then when you check page 7 for what each stat on the ship does, the group stat appears to have no bearing during combat.

>>49935587
And all groups of the same class in a battlegroup join together to form a bigger group. It's pretty explicit in the example.

>>49935645

> 2+ saves confirmed

>>49935645

It does not say they automatically form one group there.

What it's referring to are groups as used in list building. Toulons come in 2-4s, cruisers can sometimes come in pairs.

>>49935841
He's not talking about the image, he's talking about the link earlier in the chain.

>>49935841
>It does not say they automatically form one group there.
It does; the example gives a group of six Toulons, which is impossible under list building, so it must be some combination of groups of Toulons combined into a single group.

>>49935376
>>49935619

What it says is that groups must be formed from identical ships, logically that means they can form up until their maximum group size before they have to make another

It just means you can't have 3 seperate Orion's flying around in one battlegroup (or something) without being squadron'd

>>49935902

Ugh, Dave please

>>49935945
"All ships of the same class in a battlegroup automatically form a group with each other"
Seems pretty cut and dry, anon

>>49935960
No u

>>49936007

Yeah I reread it after I posted that, revise my legal counsel to >>49935960

>>49935960
>>49936078
Idk, I like it; it forces you to diversify your battleground if you want more independent groups, while also allowing you to stack up heavily if you devote an entire battleground to something.

Interestingly enough, this turns double battleship flags into a single group.

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>>49936227

>one line battlegroup of 12 djinns and 6 wyverns

>>49936227
Provided they are of the same class, aka two Toykos and whatnot (that config is... not optimal).

>>49936270
>prays to the Jakarta godess

>>49936078
>>49935960
>>49936007
So, One of your Djinns cost 43 points.
A group of 16 Djinns costs 688 pt.
So that exact number is only viable in 2300pt matches as a single BG can't exceed 33% of match value.

Now, the combo is cheesecake debauchery of the sweatiest proportions, but it is really THAT relevant to hyper-overkill a single ship in a 2300 match?

Because all ships in a group has to fire their identical weapons at the same thing.

>>49936227
>PHR Line Group
>6 Orions
>weapons free

PREPARE YOUR ANUS FOR 48 BARRELS OF HELL COMING IN HARDER THAN A PROTEIN HEAVY DIET COMES OUT

>>49936371
No god can save you.

>>49936422

Maybe that's because God doesn't have Aegis(6)

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Umm.. how so I decide what colour scheme to paint? I want to paint some shaltari guys are they're beautiful put unsure if I want to do Apache, Icini or my own scheme with inspiration from nature i_i

>>49936404

Okay, 14 Djinn

>>49936404
>Because all ships in a group has to fire their identical weapons at the same thing.
Nope, groups and ships can split up attacks as they please, just not individual weapons.

>>49936471
> 18d6+36
Aegis 12 wouldn't save you.

>>49936561

> Field a group of 4 Jakartas
> PD29 Frigates

>>49919598

Is it too early to know how many landers or motherships we are going to need? I'm trying to write lists and have absolutely no idea what ratio of gunships-carriers-scoring I should be looking for.
The fact that they've introduced a launch cap is a nice target to aim for, so that's fine.
I'm used to 40k where the rule was to take a scoring unit for every 500pts, plus one for luck.

Say I'm playing 1500pts; is a San Francisco and 2 Santiago's enough? Do I *need* bombardment capability in there?

>>49936649

29 PD is 9.667 PD hits

18+3d6 is on average 29 attacks for 9.667 crits and 9.6667 hits

So you'll be able to cripple every jakarta in one volley on just crits alone

PD's weak enough as is. Combining CAWS in a group vs PD seems like overkill.

>>49936695
Currently 1 troopship and 2 strike carriers per 750 pts appears to be the recommonded amount. So 2 San Fran and 4 New Orleans for 1500.

I am assuming that by Santiago you mean New Orleans (Santiago is the corvette).

>>49936695
>>49936759

I'm going with 4 points of Drop capacity per 200 points.

>>49936732
Do the math of a UCM corvette (Santiago) vs a Scourge strike carrier, aka the target it was designed to kill, without combining CAW.

The Toulon ends up being a better atmo hunter

>>49936901
Screwed up my stats there actually, Santiago has 3 CAW not 2.
>Revising math

So it ends up putting 0.5 crit and 1 hit on average
PD: 1.33
Results in: 0.44 average damage per turn after saves.

Toulon ends up doing 0.33 dmg per turn after saves, while actully bein capable of doing other things too!

>>49936873
Wouldn't that take 70% of each 200 points?

>>49937047

Ah sorry, I've got that the wrong way round. 1 point per 200pts.
I'm not sure whether I should round down or up though, only actual playtesting will tell.

How much is a troop ship and two strike carriers for each faction?

Or four points of landing capacity for smugs?

>>49937188

~200pts

Hmm. Looking at the Scourge Fleet Carrier, I suspect it has a typo. It probably should have Launch 3 instead of Launch 5, given that the battleship-carrier only has Launch 3, no?

>>49937188
Can someone explain how gates fucking work? Is each gate +1?

>>49937188

Troopships are around 100-110pt range, Strike Carriers seem to be near universally 32pts.

So, 4 Strike Carriers are 128pts, a Troopship and 2 Carriers would be 174pts thereabouts. However the Troopship can deploy 3 Infantry at a Time or Defence Lasers, which are both very useful.

>>49937304

Either that or the Dragon has the Typo.
Honestly, given that it's got fuck all else in armament I'm of the opinion that the Hydra really is launch 5.

Defense batteries are no joke. Shooting down for an entire cluster, 2/3rds of Troopship reinforcements (Oh look, 6 infantry divisions are going down in flames) or 1/3rds of Strike Carrier tanks.

If we take it as literal, and each ship has 5 turns worth of troops... that's like, 2500 men dying in horrible flames every time it lands a hit on a bulk lander.

>>49937373
Should be around 6000 per bulklander, since combat load is 60 000 men.

>>49937325

Your gates are like super cheap Strike Carriers. They can deliver 1 token per turn, provided they are within 18" of a mothership or another-gate-that-is-within-18"-of-a-mothership.

So you have swarms of unarmed, cheap-as-shit carriers that have the slight complication of being tethered to your motherships. On the plus side, you get them for 33-50% of the price as everyone else.

I'm not mistaken in thinking that if you're playing the 2 player starter set, there's no reason to ever put down anything but armor, right?

>>49937022

So the Toulon has the privilege of costing 50% more to do less damage and be easier to kill

>>49937497
Don't forget: every gate is 90% of a defense battery, while being harder to dislodge in many cases.

Knocking out half of enemy bulk landers and a third of dropships is serious defense for your guys on the ground.

>>49937589
Yes. Bombardment is still armor's weakness, but nothing in the starter sets is good at bombardment except PHR Strike Carriers. In that case, I'd rather just take an armor token anyway to better face the enemy troops he's about to deposit.

>>49937022

Strike carrier only gets to roll PD once against the whole group, 3 Santiagos will do 1.5 crits and 3 hits against 1.33 PD hits for a total of around 2.83 damage. Three Santiagos costs 66 points.

3 Toulons will just do a flat 2 damage usually, can't hide in atmosphere. Can shoot at enemy capital ships. 105 points.


Toulons are good backup for trying to pick at strike carriers but Santiagos are your most cost efficient route

and to sate our aesthetic brethren, the echo does the same as a Santiago while having 2/3rds the firepower of a Toulon and nearly the same effective HP since a Toulon that becomes crippled is usually just dead: all for 5 less points, 2" more thrust, stealth, more CAW, outlier.

Worse arcs on the gun though.


I love that Toulons are great back up for Santiagos and that Echoes are great back up for Europas. Lucas-tier poetry

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>>49919598

A storm is coming. The first of many...

> Help me choose a faction

I am stuck, I can see the appeal of all 4 factions. Could anyone provide a basic rundown of the following:


> I want units to support each other
I want more than just spamming firepower and scoring, I want units to rely on each other to bring out the best. Stuff like active scans, Flash-reliance and support frigates.

> I don't want to use Weapons Free every time
I want to be turning, sprinting and generally be mobile rather than spam guns. So a strong preference for light cruisers, frigates or arc-restricted weapons.

Any help is appreciated.

>>49937876

Sounds like PHR since they probably have the nastiest normal orders shooting in the game and amazing support frigates, but I think UCM will accomplish that as well.

>>49937716
If you check my original post >>49936901
ou can see that the point I was trying to illustrate was that not combining CAW is dumb in respect to Santiago effeciency.
Since if you do CAW seperatly buying Toulons is probably better due to not having to get into scan range and you still can shoot other ships when you don't have atmo strike carriers to hunt, and therefore not being a useless waste of hull a lot of the time.

>>49937497
Not that anon, but since the shaltari section says that normal Gates are equivalent to drop ships, and that Gates are the only thing we can currently Launch are Gates, the Bulk Lander chart having a shaltari entry is mostly superflous? We don't actually have a bulk lander equivalent right now correct?

>>49937304
Nah, the battleship has lower capacity because it's sacrificing some for its torpedos. The dragon's fighter/bomber launch stat has been carefully set to make the ship's total launch value 5, like the hydra, so you can hit the 10/15/20 limits nicely.

>>49937914

I see, I apologize your point is correct.

>>49936520
Ok, my bad. I dropped the ball on that one.

>>49937919

That appears to be the case although they might just be future proofing.

Void gates have 6 fucking PD? God damn.

A corvette squadron will still sink a few per turn but still.

>>49937973
Lets spread the word of CAW combine goodness to be nonbeliver!

>>49938089
6 PD?! I think we have definite proof that you should be combining CAW here...

This question might sound wierd but what is the Kodiaks purpose for UCM? Just to sit in the back and shit out orbital strikes?

>>49938217

Big armored command bubble for you to drop behind a building and throw command cards at your units from

And remember it's an indirect fire weapon and you always hit buildings on 2+ no matter what, so you can just drop some masonry on assholes when you want

>>49938217
Be a cool command RV that is a more realistic command post vehicle than some sorta mega-tank.

Also, that orbital bomb is pretty good. You're virutaly assured to put a point or two on any target anywhere on the table now that it has the small blast, assuming spotters.

while Shaltari ground forces can be quite scary if they can dump a ton onto one area before gating them across the map, I can't say my pants won't be wet with fear as I need to keep my very fragile mothership alive to make any use of my own strike carrier equivalent.

At least medeas are fire and forget while being tough as shit to dislodge from atmosphere. All it takes to end a Shaltaris objectives dreams is to get a lucky few active scans on their mothership(s).
Also this becomes even worse if launching gates counts as...well, launching, giving it a minor spike

>>49938217
Its purpose is to be the designated Shit First Wave Command Choice for the UCM, which never gets taken compared to command choices in the phase 1/2 books. Just like the desolator, zeus, and coyote.

Well, the zeus gets taken, I guess, although that seems to be more about bringing odins without using up a heavy battlegroup.

>>49938217
Pretty much.

Wolverines and/or Starsprites should be offering some decent spotting, allowing you to punish the opposition if they cluster together. If not, you can still shreck buildings (remember you get demolisher-2 instead of the AoE if you directly hit a building) or deal some solid damage to pretty much anything on the ground.

In fact, in one of my recent games vs PHR, the Kodiak by itself was responsible for removing half of Barros's dp in two turns, with two Gladii and a Broadsword doing the rest.
Previously, I've also done things like delete entire grav-tank units and bust multiple Type-1 walkers because opponents put them next to each other.

Plus, it's pretty tricky to get back there and actually take it out. The temptation to just have something try and sneak towards it can also mean the enemy spreads himself too thinly or exposes a unit.
Do be careful of fast movers making a cheeky attack run.

>>49933839
This is why no matter how much you perfect your theorycrafting, you must still make your blood sacrifices to the dice gods.

>>49938346

Double Zeus is a great small footprint brick unit for capping critical points. 4 Zeus in a Njord is just plain cheese

>>49938336

> Also this becomes even worse if launching gates counts as...well, launching, giving it a minor spike

It does.

>>49938361
Cool gonna use one for my anti-armor tank spearhead themed list. Think wide open desert warfare with light air cover and just "All the shit gets deployed and a huge fuckoff armor fight happens between PHR/UCM on a desert village place"

>>49938336
I feel against shaltari it's a good idea to bring a specialist bombardment ship purely to deal with the australasia gambit from risk.

>>49937907
I think UCM does the whole support gimmic better than PHR tho.
PHR just bring their "support" for more shooty tooty and broadsides.

>>49938414
>I feel against shaltari it's a good idea to bring a specialist bombardment ship purely to deal with the australasia gambit from risk.
This; I'm betting that it will be a common strategy for a Shaltari admiral to stack up loads of ground assets on some backfield/sidefield objective turn 1, and then redistribute forces as needed once their gate network is secure.

>>49938372
Throw a Hades in with them for healing giggles. Ain't shit taking that point back.

>>49938451

Sort of. Pandoras are mostly for putting minor spikes on enemy ships, Andromedas can be discount long range jakartas if necessary and Calypsos are wonderful.

But you're correct that the majority of their cruiser+ size ships are just different specialties of killy

>>49931679

Any idea on when we are seeing the Corvette / non-KS Battlecruisers?
Because I want to spam Corvettes.

I thought I had some brilliantly broken shit you could do with PHR 5-hull Frigates, then realized thankfully Dave thought of them

>Can't active scan from Atmos to mass ping enemy fleet with no real consequences
>Can't dive into Atmos and Ping, since you can't turn while on Active mode.
>Can't dick around with a unit of tiny frigates in each group at max range, since group coherency and one-order-per-battlegroup fucks them.

Well played Dave.

>>49938753
On the other hand the ping function does work nicely with the laser flashes.

>>49938844
> active scanning by shooting huge lasers at enemies
Aesthetic as hell, bruh.

>>49933380

watching, 25 min in

>Hit the deck, New Orleans!

>>49939374

BTL strafing cruiser to the rescue!

>whiff
>whiff
>What the hell, Berlin!?

>>49939450

Come on, Toulon-chans! Rip that jelly to gobbets!

>>49939474

>welp, ok then

>>49939474
Those poor Toulons. Wait till you see it.

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Press F to pay respect

>>49940280

>you measure distance to debris fields from the stem, meaning you can have part of your base on the debris field and as long as the stem is off, you're fine

neat

>>49939685
How many times did Dave have to explain the way orders work? I counted at least 3 in the first 30 mins.
Whats so hard to understand about one special order per battle group, and each ship does that or standard orders?

Still, that dudes way less irritating than the guy who did the ks videos with Simon

>>49940830
He's probably just fanboying so hard all his blood went to his loins resulting in a descreased brain function.

>you failed us, Moscow!

>>49941217

God bless those bomber-crews, though.

>>49939685

Oh... wow. Those poor little things.

>sniff
>well, they did the best they could
>and died ripping and tearing

Stop blowing up god damn it!

>>49941608

Pretty much the only thing still on the table is the New Orleans I didn't think was going to get out of Turn 1

>>49940280
F

Also, makes sending a wyverns on suicide attacks more appealing. Pretty decent chance of fucking up a group of ships with another 2 hull damage each which against frigates, seems like a 50/50 shot of killing them from cripple damage. Which just chains further.

>Cruisers fucking annihilate each other in one, maybe two rounds of shooting

Fuck

>>49942753
tbf one guy did go balls in on rushing. And the other guy stayed right by him to shoot.

Tactical geniuses, they are not.

>>49942753
Pretty good balance, I'd say; game is only 6 turns long, and you want to see a bunch of shit blow up.

>>49942795

Those little Toulons did what they had to, though. Tore that squid apart with CAW.

>>49942894

>*sniff*

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>>49942931

So are people finally starting to get their backer rewards?

In other news, what's the consensus on the Scourge? I have a bunch of friends going PHR and UCM for dropfleet and dropzone and I'm a little scared looking at their models' profiles.

>>49942973
Scary as fuck at close range, going by the demo video.

>>49942973
Had mine for weeks now. Sadly, they turned up just after another Kickstarter, so I haven't even touched them.

>>49942973
Full Cloak looks like a godsend for those battlecruisers. Just full thrust, come to new heading, and weapons free and laugh at all the 'consequences'.

>>49943132
Certainly, but Scourge BCs otherwise seem pretty fragile and underarmed. It should balance out well.

>>49942973

Scourge weapons hit hard especially at point blank. There speed is nothing to sneeze at either.

>>49943093
Really? Dang, I'm jealous. I'm still waiting for mine to arrive and I'm starting to worry a bit.

>>49942988
>>49943132
>>49943275
So basically go fast and just murder things up close?

>>49942973
If you're a Scourge player in DZC, just approach DFC with the same aggressive mindset. Get close, be fine with losing a few things along the way, tear them the fuck up. You want to be closing in with everything to leverage that scald rule, only things that shouldn't be doing that are your fleet carriers and troop transports. 5 launch with 15" 2 attack 3+ scalding bombers will seriously fuck something up each and every turn. 30" bubble of death around those things. Their BTLs have alt modes which I think makes them stronger than the UCMs. You have the 1 attack 2+ one with a cap of 4 which can reliably finish off ships or slap spikes onto things for other ships, or the 4 attack, 4+ one with a cap of 8. That one is for going full retard on something big at close range to exploit your scald and potentially do massive damage if the dice go your way.

Yes, your stuff isn't particularly sturdy. But that's fine, you can wreck shop up close and if you die, you're usually so close that you'll get one last fuck you in with the destroyed damage table, like in the demo Dave just did where a Wyvern went toe to toe with 2 Toulons and a Berlin. Yeah, it died, but the Toulons got wiped when it went up and the Berlin was on 1 hull left. And that was with some bad rolls for the Wyvern's CAW.

So just be aggressive, go balls out all the time, us your stealthy cruisers to maneuver freely and bomb bitches like it's cool.

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>>49943302
It'll be fine. It looks like they just shipped the small, cheap orders first.

>>49943302
I think the Scourge BCs are a bit more subtle.

Since they're fast, and can make use of the maneuverability enhancing orders at all times, there's actually ZERO downside for one using New Heading every turn, provided it's battlegroup doesn't need orders.

You could pair a division of Scourge BCs to be a fast raider unit, to solo weak enemy forces and obliterate them with weapons free, while they can only respond with their own weapons, out of range of support from their fleet.

The Basilisk/Akuma can shit out 8 attacks at 3+ Scald that do 2 damage each without dipping into the CAW weapons. That's terrifying. That's close to crippling an enemy battleship in a single volley on average hits, much less anything smaller that the BCs can pounce on for being out of position.

Really, not giving a shit about Spikes gives you terrifying options.

>>49943384
What is this beautiful game?

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>>49943473
Haven't the foggiest idea, sorry.

Quick, the Scourge, PHR, and Shaltari all get a 3rd battleship variant each.

It must be cheap enough to be taken as a second batteship in a 1500 point game.

What do they get?

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Watching that video, and Dave mentioned that you can mitigate CAW crits with two 5's or 6's, but then when he gets massacred by Scourge CAW in the middle of the vid, he doesn't even roll PD against them. Did he forget, or did I mishear it?

>>49943941
He forgot, most likely.

>>49943812
Scourge get a battleship carrier, with lots of bulk lander capacity. PHR get a ship with its broadsides removed and 3 turreted supernova btls attached, and Shaltari get a battleship that has both a massive impel cannon and some of their combined CAW/Bombard weapons. Won't nearly hit as hard as a diamond, but it can rotate a ship 45 degrees semi reliably. All of these I think would be worth about 200 points, and should be in that magical range.

>>49943812
PHR: 1 torpedo per turn, unlimited, plus standard battleship broadsides
Scourge: CAW (yes, even more than that)
Shaltari: some sort of black hole gun that can move enemy ships toward the target.

>>49943941
You mean he didn't roll PD at all or he didn't prioritize eliminating crits?

>>49943812
>Scourge
What other anons have said; give it two troop modules, capable of dropping six dropships a turn (no bulk landers), while retaining its occulus array and furnace cannons.

>PHR
ECM/ECCM/CnC battleship, increases the scan range of friendly ships within its scan range (including itself) by some amount X".

>Shaltari
Definitely some kind of distortion gun, or some crazy ass 180 with a super-massive microwave cannon array for its main weapon.

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>>49944012
>You mean he didn't roll PD
This. He skipped it entirely, which might have helped mitigate the thorough rogering his heavy cruiser received. As >>49943961 said though, he most likely forgot, since he had to be reminded to do so for another attack later in the game.

>>49944111
>6 dropships per turn
That's too many to be useful

>>49944135

Because he had 2 HP and there were enough crits that he couldn't possibly roll enough PD hits to negate enough to save him

>>49944152
Eh, drop it down to 4 then. At that point though, it's equivalent to a mothership, except that it can put down 4 armor instead of 4 infantry, but can't put down a defense battery.

That actually might be pretty good, in all honesty; only problem is that dropships need to be released from atmos, and battleships can't go in atmos.

>watched video

Boy this really isn't the same as "you need approximately twice the points value of the target ship to damage them" battlefleet gothic

>>49944188
Wait are they dropships or bulk landers?

>>49944216
It doesn't really make sense for it to drop a single bulk lander a turn, and two bulk landers is far too much, so dropships would be the way to go, except they can't be dropped from LO.

Maybe give it a limited number of bulk landers? Can drop two a turn, but has limited 6 or 8.

>>49944253
L-8 2 at a time in a 6 turn game where you don't get to drop every turn might as well be unlimited.

>>49944288
Fair enough, L-6 might be better then, or maybe even L-4. It'd definitely differentiate it from a normal mothership.

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>>49944192
It's nice to see a game where even the smallest class of ship is a danger to everything on the board.

>>49944312
>It's nice to see a game where even the smallest class of ship is a danger to everything on the board.
This, those two Toulons did some serious work against that Wyvern.

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>>49944323

That entire turn
>if two fucking toulons can do that, imagine what my Europas are going to do

>>49944613
Remind me, are their broadsides linked?

>>49944853

Absolutely

>takes 3 HP to cripple them

I love PHR frigates in every single way, there's nothing about the models or rules I dislike.

>>49944853
Yep, which means you can just chuck Europas into the fray, kick ass, and take names.

Speaking on an entirely unrelated note, I've always wanted to see how a literal general or admiral (or just some relatively high ranking officer) would play one of these wargames, not even just DZ/FC

>>49944853
Yep. It's going to be an ordeal killing them off before they get in range with both guns, too. Whose idea was 3+ armour frigates?

>>49944910
I've seen it. You probably wouldn't be especially impressed. Being a good general officer is mostly about leadership and logistics, which really don't factor much into these games. Strategy only takes you so far.

Then there are bad general officers.

>>49944982
what level of officer would have an actual leg up in these games from their training, then? Or are they just too far removed from actual combat and its principles to be transferable.

>>49945004
It's not really the rank so much as the position. There's definitely a transferable skill in there, it's just a question of how important that skill is relative to other skills. The officers who are selected for the kind of thinking that wins wargames are frequently advisors to general officers. What that position is called varies tremendously.

>>49945004

Any below a colonel with major combat experience is going to probably understand why being aggressive as shit and never being on defense wins fights.


But war games, especially fictional ones, are just games.

>>49945004
There's also the problem of numerical values being discrete and well known in war games compared to actual war.

>>49944982
Droplogistics Commander when

>>49945087
>Any below a colonel with major combat experience is going to probably understand why being aggressive as shit and never being on defense wins fights.

And a good general officer will understand why being on the defensive sometimes wins defensive wars despite that truth.

>>49945107
Fair enough; at some point wargames become more games than simulation, and so gamers will have an advantage over officers. There's definitely overlap, though.

>>49945131

Strategic defense and tactical defense have a very sharp divide and you can easily be strategically defensive but tactically offensive.

This doesn't mean you have to go full retard bumrush but never go full Dorne

>>49943384
Those medium ships look very 'Legend of the galactic heroes.'

>>49945172
Certainly.

I prefer to slice it a bit thinner with operational considerations, but the principle stands.

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>>49944982
Used to play Firestorm Armada with a guy who studied naval tactics at the Naval Post Graduate school here. He was damn good - of the dozen or so games I played with him, he beat me 90% of the time. Anecdotal, but my experience.

Course, I was playing Pathogen and had a bad habit of trying to board everything all the time, so that might have been why.

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>autosage
>page 5
>midnight
Fuck, someone else will have to make the next thread.

>>49945004

Most of the untangles of warfare don't factor into table top games. And playing requires a in depth knowledge of the strengths and weakness of the factions and the rules. A lot of people just don't have time for that in their hobby especially high ranking military.

That said, most basic officer courses teach a lot of about military strategy and planning processes. Anyone in a combat arms MOS or the Marine Corps would have a leg up.

>>49945284
Self-selection bias undoubtedly plays a big part there. My best friend there studies swarm robotics. He fully admits that he would be bad at such games, but is he is a very talented mathematician.

>>49945685
>Anyone in .... or the Marine Corps would have a leg up.
kek

LZ is Hot, redirecting to new thread:

>>49945955
>>49945955
>>49945955

>>49944111
>>49944012
>>49943988
>>49943812

Honestly, I'd make the Scourge Battleship a lighter armoured (4+ say) Speed 10" thing with the Demons Occulus Arrays and the Beast rule.

For PHR I'd actually INCREASE the broadside capability. The other two have forward weapons, this one has none. Or possibly make it a carrier. Probably use the Fusilade rule with either.

Shaltari, yeah an Impel platform sounds about right. Maybe give it some of those Blue Bombardment/CAW banks as well? It's a bit too much like the other Battlecruiser then though.