Pathfinder General /pfg/

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Goblin master race reporting in!

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So, what's the best way to dual wield crossbows, excluding weird shit like the Vestigial Hand or Prehensile Hair?

>>49865671
Bolt Ace gunslinger.

>>49865671
Extra Arms from Aegis, and bolt-ace it (no choice since crossbows).

One might say it's a double-double.

>>49865671
Don't.

>>49864416
Bard decided that he would learn the accordion in real life and play it to simulate bardic inspiration. His death was a mercy.

>>49868632
thats outstanding.

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Putting up some homebrew I've done over the past couple of months. All of them are pretty close to done, though feedback is highly appreciated on any that people are interested in.

Fusilier - Explosives and Firearms happy Harbinger archetype.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/181xuVW9TAYjZpgWS0q6U4A9SqJZG8CcXGG2lIMwn3Fw/edit?usp=sharing

Dashing Romantic - A love and charm based paladin archetype.
Initiating version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Xc-dvBYn1491dvF1ctGOgxt41xBaAto_WMno9dFiYEs/edit?usp=sharing
Non-initiating version:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1vHZu4JK6aVLU11mnlZNH7TjA1d70uYYXFEbEGagLcDo/edit?usp=sharing

An Alternate take on the Magical Tail feats, trying to make them a bit more worthwhile/interesting for Kitsune subtypes.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/16cNZwfDnx6NX3RRpatFtSteWqbfCIFp7E4Lr5yvh32Y/edit?usp=sharing

Any ideas for more stuff to homebrew is always fun as I'm in a bit of a homebrew mood.

why is playing an evil character so fun

>>49870116
Because you don't empathize with the NPCs enough to feel like you're hurting actual people, presumably. Or you just have sadistic power fantasies that D&D lets you experience without fear of consequence, internal or external.

Need some PoW advice.
I'm a level 5 Ordained Defender Warder, focusing Silver Crane. Essentially playing Not!Paladin. While I defend my allies well by increasing their defenses and decreasing the enemy's offenses, I feel my personal defense is lacking. After Silver Crane Style, I'm left with 20 AC. I feel that's not enough. I get hit too often. My squishy Bard, meanwhile, is effectively running 26 AC due to my efforts.
Now, I do have counters, and I use them on the big hits, but since my AC is low I get tickled down by the smaller attacks I can't afford to counter. The healing I get from maneuvers helps mitigate the issue, but it's not enough.
What should I do moving forwards to rectify the problem?
I'm wearing full plate and using a heavy wooden shield. I've spent my WBL on utility items so far.

Is barbarian vmc on a cleric worth a damn?

>>49871363
Retrain out of SC style, it just won't scale well enough, nor will the next two feats in the chain. Grab Poweful Marks instead.

>>49865671
Bolt-ace 5 is a given, with a few levls in juggler bard if you don't want extra appendages.

>>49871445
Why not just rage domain?

>>49865671
Shadow shooting enhancement.

>>49871573
Deity doesn't have it.

>>DM'd for the last two years for a group of somewhat unbearabale pricks
>>All were very strong and constantly had to one up each other with stupid builds
>From Celestial commander summoners, to some bullshit third party occultist that morphed into a huge cat with warlord levels for maneuvers to bard gunslinger warlords and Stalkers that stomped shit
>Had to make encounters at least two CR higher to make it at least somewhat engaging and not a complete curb stomp
>Wasn't really having fun and was relieved when we stopped playing

>Go back to group I played with, a group of very good friends that now have some time.
>They make a druid, a witch and a warlord, with a Slayer in the mix
>Worried because fuck druid, witch and warlord
>Game starts
>"So, do I know he's undead? No. Ok, I use my mind effecting shit on it." "My animal companion is some weird eight legged walrus thing that is fucking useless" "I am a halfling warlord with a fighting stick"
>Whatisthis
>Suddenly, four zombies become a strong challenge to a level 2 party
>Six goblins with size advantage become a struggle close to a tpk
>Everyone has fun
>Nobody argues even if they are fighting for their dear lives
>They don't spend off combat time constantly looking at their smart phones, but actually listening to what is going on
>Last night four fucking caterpillars proved to be a struggle
>Don't have to wreck my head with encounters
>Warlord got his shit kicked in by a level 2 pure monk

Is this what happiness is like?

>>49871516
Really?
Being able to succ ability damage, eventually for free, seemed like a great choice.
I felt sure there was plenty of nasty stuff I couldn't defend allies from without that feat chain.

>>49871593
There's an archetype that lets you select domains your deity doesn't have IIRC.

That said, don't clerics have a spell that's a better rage than rage? What exactly do you want from the barb PrC?

What base pow class compliments silver crane well?

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/pfg/ will defend this

>>49871629
Warder is a great fit. Especially OD, but it's not necessary.
Arguably Warlord, too, but less so.
Also if you flavor it right there's the Judge archetype for Stalker that could work.

>>49871645
Post the wrong image, there, anon?

>>49871645
They literally won't because everyone in /pfg/ fucking knows first party material is terrbile.

Why the fuck do you think most of the dsicussion pretty much revolves around 3pp stuff and what little shit can be scrounged from 1pp stuff.

>>49871616
Rage rounds and the enhancements to picking up chicks

>>49871645
Is this...
Is this nega-bait?
Bait so awful, so pathetic, that it actually works anyway?
Dude, 5 star post. Really.

>>49871611
Silver Crane Feathers is bad in that you should have immediate action counters that allow you to instead negate the attack rather than having you take the damage.
Silver Crane Wings might allow you a chance at negating damage, but your will save will have issues managing to keep up with the increasing damage that can be dealt at higher levels with single attacks, specially if the DM is using PoW content as well. And it still costs an immediate action, which you could be more efficient in use of with a counter (with or without Extended Defense to make the most of out if).

>>49871717
I see. Fair enough. I'll take Powerful Mark instead. This leaves me at a loss as to what feat to get at 7, but I'll figure it out.
Thanks, anon.

>>49871755
Shattered Mirror style is a +1 to shield AC (Increases if you already have a shield).

Other anons could probably help you better, but there might be a way to get Int to AC to help out your problem.

>>49871835
It'd have to be Wis in this case due to my archetype.
I'm already on the hunt for that, but it's all "no/light armor" stuff.

>>49871986
Remember that Mithral Fusing Full Plate counts as light armor, though.

>>49872036
Fusing?

>>49872045
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-armor-and-shields

>>49872062
Danke.

I love this thread already, not a breast or enraged discussion to be seen!

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>>49865671
By using another system.

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>>49872085
faggot

>>49872036
Wow, that's perfect.
How can I get that for cheapsies?
It's out of my budget for quite some time otherwise.

>>49864416
>Have PCs ever become enemies?
Near everytime we reach high levels.
>Why?
Because it's more fun than forcing our dm to write high level adventures. It generally doesn't fit the tone of our campaigns.

>>49872253

Now that's just mean, anon!

>>49871645
Actually, it inspired me to allow PoW as soon as they get thier errata out.

>>49872484
As in the PCs turn on each other in their ever greater lust for power?

Is it possible to be a holy warrior "protector of the weak" type character WITHOUT having a stick up your arse?

Do you worship, like, Cayden Caylean or something?

>>49872743
Go neutral good/lawfull
You protect the weak with plenty of room to remove the stick from arse.

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>>49872743
Yes

>>49872721
No, it's usually ideological conflict that flares up once we're no longer bound to a plot and reliant on each other for survival. Particularly if we've risen to politically influent positions, which we usually do.
That said, we also fight over money all the fucking time too. At times, money and politics become two facets of the same issue, like in the current campaign where we're infighting between kingdom loyalists (basically the pally and the dmpc magus) and tax evaders (the wizard, the cleric and the bard).

Why are magic weapons and armor so grossly overpriced?
It's actually disgusting.
A +1 holy longsword is like, what, 150% of a level 7 character's total wealth?
Is there homebrew that unfucks this?

>>49872943
Sounds baller, I like pcs shaping the world around them

>>49873012
Those values are just in place for reference and for crafting. If your DM actually lets you purchase a +1 holy longsword I'd seriously consider switching groups. That's just dumb.

>>49873012
"Grossly overpriced" compared to what? A +4 belt of giant's strength costs 16k. 18k for a +3 weapon is a bargain compared to that(assuming you're only using one weapon, of course).

>>49873077
>If your DM actually lets you purchase a +1 holy longsword I'd seriously consider switching groups. That's just dumb.

What did he mean by this?

>>49873077
>If your DM actually lets you purchase a +1 holy longsword I'd seriously consider switching groups.
If your GM DOESN'T let you purchase magic items, you should consider either getting a new GM or switching to a system like 5e that's not built on the assumption that magic items are reasonably easy to purchase.

>>49873175
>>49873146
Not sure if he meant it as such, but the thought clued into my head.

Would it be good for a DM to try and figure out treasure that might interest his players?

a +1 holy longsword wouldn't be to much to ask in a boss's loot pool or perhaps if they got really lucky with a random encounter.

>>49873070
Baller my ass, pally is metagaming as fuck. He's heard us joking (no seriously, just joking) about our corporation being rich enough to take over the kingdom, and suddendly our state contracts get rescinded, our mercenary companies are out of the war, and foreign churches aren't exempt from taxation anymore? No fuck you, now we're taking over for real.

>>49873232
Why not just ask the players what sort of treasure they want, put it in the loot pile, and then also do your interesting fluff loot?

>>49873175

He's talking about the idea of a "Magic Shop" in a city where you can buy specialized gear that's just hanging off the racks.

You should only be able to get a +1 Holy Longsword at your friendly neighborhood cathedral, after a lengthy discussion with the local bishop and a hefty donation to the church.

>>49873232
>Would it be good for a DM to try and figure out treasure that might interest his players?
This is a given.
If you're not doing that, you're making a mistake.

>>49873247
True enough, I personally like a surprise myself but i guess should you ask them on occasion like a parent asking his child what they want for christmas wouldn't be to bad.

Now that i think about it thats a good way of putting it, generally you get that one thing you want and then a few other smaller but still useful things. Or perhaps something big you never remembered mentioning.

if they don't like it, shrug and keep going on, next christmas they'll get their fucking coal.

>>49873247
>>49873295

Not only is this typically the better way to do this, but it helps the DM figure out encounters or quests to throw at the players.

Does someone really, really want a Belt of Giant's Strength +4? Turns out there's an illegal gladiatorial ring in the city you're staying at, and the reward for becoming THE CHAMP is a strength-enhancing belt.

>>49873242
Ah I stand corrected

>>49873262
>implying a metropolis wouldn't have a +1 holy longsword available on the black market
Anything for the right price anon

>>49873262
>>49873333
>>49873448
I really like these ideas. Any other ideas for locations where you could get magic items not through a magic items shop?

Aren't their rules for finding magic items in cities based on size?
Then again maybe his gm rules in frontier villages exclusively

>>49873620
Runs games in*

>>49873491

The blacksmith is willing to forge you a mighty suit of armor, but first you must go to the harvest festival with his son/daughter.

You swiftly discover said person does not have a date because they're a Tiefling.

>Their GMs make them spend gold on mandatory, boring +whatever items rather than just handing them out as loot
You have my pity, tortured souls

>>49873676
I expected a trap there anon

>>49873764
Question: How does pfg feels about gms tracking the minor stuff? Such as encumbrance, rations, ammo that sort of thing?
Granted after a point the pics have enough money where it's just an annoyance but what about early game/levels?

>>49873620
Yeah, it's based on the Settlement rules.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/gamemastering/other-rules/settlements

If an item is below a city's Base Limit then there's a 75% chance the party can find it. So for example a +1 Sword costs about 2,000 gp, which means any settlement larger than a Village has a 75% chance of having one. A Hamlet or a Thorpe has a reduced chance, but there may be a unique NPC that has one available depending on the DM (or if a party member is a Rogue with Black Market Connections or something similar).

>>49873782

Well maybe the trap is the Tiefling's charming, adorable and surprisingly perky for someone who's practically a social outcast.

Maybe the danger is falling in love, and the trap is a wedding ring! Haha! Got you!

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>>49873809

>>49873809
Oh damn anon you got me

>>49873809
But anon...
I have a +9 Reflex save and Evasion...
;_;

>>49873880

You can willingly fail a save, anon.

>>49873880

>Implying it's not a Will save

>>49873900
Wait, really?

>>49873909

Hell yeah you can even try to resist harmless or beneficial spells if you really want to.

>>49873798
Depends on the kind of campaign you're trying to run. First level party going into wilderness for weeks? Yeah, sure, keep track of everything if that's your thing. A 13th level party teleporting into a dungeon for two days? Keeping track of rations and mundane* ammunition is pointless busywork, and unless the party has no magical storage, you should just assume that they can handle anything short of trying to steal the adamantium doors as well as everything behind them.

*magical or otherwise expensive ammunition is another matter, of course.

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>>49873809

>mfw

>>49871605
You've met the best kind of party: The kind that knows the game, knows how to bust it open, and then purposefully doesn't work with that information to make the story more fun to play around in.

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>>49874072

>mfw I always strive to be that kind of person in every campaign I join

Funniest example was when I played an Osirioni Slayer in a campaign that took us to the Land of the Linnorm Kings, my character was convinced the Draugr were just like mummies and she adamantly refused to steal anything from their tombs lest she suffer a curse.

>>49874118
To be fair, you're not supposed to steal from draugr anyway lest you get stalked by them for taking their shit.

>>49874118
Personally I always optimize the fuck out of my characters and then sandbag down to the level of the party.
Leaves me with a surprise Super Saiyan option to wrestle the narrative our way once or twice.

>>49874133

True, but she didn't know that. She thought if she stole their treasure her womb would go barren, her teeth will fall out and her hair will become like brittle straw, not "a big freaky guy will throttle the life outta you."

>>49874149

Personally I optimize the attributes and feats, grab must-have skills, and spend the rest of my character creation having fun; sure, the barbarian should have an 18 in Strength, but you know what's fun? Grabbing Navigator as a feat and describing him as a peerless sailor.

After playing with Fool's Errand for two months, I feel some of the older disciplines need to be touched up. FE is so... dynamic. It feels fantastic to use. The older stuff seems a bit bland in comparison.
Like, FE gets fucking Finger of God or Sky-Shattering Throw on the same level other disciplines get "Deal a bunch of damage and a status effect maybe."
Anyone else feel the same?

Reminder, Depressed Homebrewer is running a game for /pfg/

Story:
>Ahor Jeer, the city at the center of the world is hosting The World's Fair
>the party is part of the planning committee, a government body formed to help the fair go off without a hitch
>the city is swilling in population
>the campaign starts off three months before the start date of the fair
>the governments of Ahor and Jeer are building the crown jewel of the fair, the Golden City
>first leg of the adventure follows a string of murders, and a possible scare in the months leading up to the fair
>he's been taking up by the numerous penny dreadfuls as the Fiend in City of Gold
>the party is one of the teams put on the case of tracking down the fiend

Campaign Details:
>not combat focused, more investigation/intrigue
>high magic society with the consequences there in (except for dumb exploits like auto-reset create food/water traps)
>text based game
>you are gonna start small fish in big pond
>the game's combat is not gonna be easy, expect a rough time if you don't play smart
>6-7PM PST start time, either mondays or thursdays
>major themes include surrealism, intrigue, hidden history, body horror, and conspiracies
>myth-weavers preferred

Character Creation Rules:
>25pb
>list of allowed races: human, dwarf, half-orc, orc, goblin, hobgoblin, gnome, dhampir, kobold, tiefling, changeling, gnoll, skin walker, monkey goblin, blues, half-giants, duergar (both normal and DSP)
>3rd level
>paizo/DSP/spheres allowed, other things can be requested (and reviewed by me)
>standard WBL
>full hit dice level 1 & 1/2+1 every level there after
>bonus feat track!
1st: Deific Obedience or Skill Focus
2nd: Teamwork Feat
3rd: Story Feat
4th: Extra Traits
5th: Signature Skill
6th: Teamwork Feat (Again whole party gets the same one)
7th: Skill Focus

Roll20: https://app.roll20.net/lfg/listing/59938/the-city-at-the-center-of-the-world

Discord: https://discord.gg/5g4hwCr

What Sphere would be useful for a dispel/counterspell oriented character, or does Spheres not have good antimagic support?

>>49874309
Enhancement and Protection have some stuff.
The real shit is all feats and untyped spell points.
And Sphere counterspellers are fucking vicious compared to Vancian ones, if built right.

Is there any way to get an effect like Dervish Defender's "AoO on counter" without shackling yourself to a TWF build?
I'm looking to be a rapier duelist type of character with Scarlet Throne.

>>49874292
Please apply for this game! Spheres and DSP are allowed, and nobody has claimed Warder yet! My Zealot is gonna be c u t e !

>>49874309
Destruction. Counterspell people by blasting them, and add on lingering damage for the purpose of concentration checks for no additional spell points!

>>49874669

I dont know what to play for an intrigue focused game. I have too many ideas and they all cram in the door and nothing shakes loose.

>>49874593
Yeah, but /pfg/ doesn't think it's worthwhile.

What teamwork feats are worth it for a melee-focused hunter? One who is strength based and probably going to be using a shield.

Aside from obvious shit like pack flanking/outflank I'm drawing a blank.

>>49874669

Tell us about your zealot and why they will be cute!

>>49874689

Slayer has about three separate archetypes focused on being a thug, enforcer or some variation of urban character associated with the underbelly.

Investigator has the same thing.

Brawler can easily be a mustachioed gentleman who enjoys nice brawls in a tavern basement.

Urban Barbarian.

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>>49874689
Serial Killer Vigilante.

>>49874689

How about a dwarf investigator who puts on the appearance of a bumbling fool, and springs his final proof and accusation with the phrase "one more thing"?

Or a warlord military officer who's finally come to the capital after years abroad and finds his country's turned into a political cesspool?

Or a foppish nobleman who's actually a gnoll vigilante who's REALLY good at making disguises?

>>49874309
>Sphere
Protection is the Anti-magic sphere (anti-magic field is an advanced talent), but the protection handbook isn't out, so there isn't much for it. Basic dispel magic and counterspell are feats.

What's the best PoW class for a blind swordsman concept?
I know paizocore already has the style that lets you get the blind-fight chain early, but that's damn feat intensive for what is essentially flavor.

>>49874858
It's not that bad any more, I think it just requires one level of MoMS and a specific trait, which should get you blindsight at level 3-ish.

>>49874858
The only one I've found that was worthwhile was the vigilante with the Strike the Unseen talent.

>>49874850
>>49874845
>>49874789

This is my problem, I have rolled up parts for a cleric, oracle, 3 types of bards, a rogue, and an investigator.

I might do the serial killer. That could be fun. But I dont know!

>>49874953

Which one do you find has the most cute and lewd potential.

Pick that one, if they're all so equal in terms of desirability than you might as well include minor variables.

>>49875000

I have never really done that. The closest I came was a DILF healer

>>49875094

There's a first for everything, anon!

>>49874292
Still trying to decide between my Steelfist Commando Lady-In-Waiting/Bodyguard and my ex-mercenary drug addict Alchemical Scoundrel.

On the one hand, I really want to try the Scoundrel and if everyone else is going cute/lewd, being a disapproving dad trying to keep everyone in line could a lot of fun.

On the other, I'm already playing that kind of character in another campaign...

>>49875203

Why not both? Play the lady-in-waiting as a proper ojou sama disapproving of the party's obnoxious ways, with the occasional gap moe to let her join in on the fun.

>>49875235
Sadly that doesn't fit with the character.

>>49864416
Has anyone gotten ahold of the PDF for the new Curse of the Crimson Throne anniversary edition? I'd love to get my hands on it, but 42 bucks for the pdf is fucking ridiculous.

>>49875397
Nope, and I can't imangine it'll come out anytime soon as it's ~500 pages that all need to be cleaned.

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>>49875397
>>49875517
Aough. Time to be patient.

>>49875517
Fair enough. I can be patient. Just didn't know if we had any sort of time frame on it. Can't expect good ol' LeakAnon to upload all 500 pages as images.

>>49874292
That's not Depressed Homebrewer, that's somebody else entirely.

>>49875586

>tfw no Waffle Land in Avistan so I can play Waffle girl

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>>49875737
You could fluff parts of Taldor as it. Alternatively, build Waffle Land in Kingmaker or after Wrath of the Righteous.

>>49875737

Waffle Land is Nirmathas, which is also France.

Molthune is a fairly on-the-nose Prussian analogue.

>>49875697
Check the Roll20 listing bro.

It's the same account they're using for the Unshackled Playtest.

>>49874858
Not PoW, but the Divination sphere handbook has a Blind Swordsman (Samurai archetype)

>>49871605
I would choose the first party over the second in a heartbeat. Characters who are incapable of pulling their weight as determined by the system (newsflash: encounters of CR=party level are supposed to be a complete curbstomp, equal fight is CR+4) objectively increase my load as a GM whenever I use published adventures, and players who run them are generally boring morons.

Then again, if you think that anyone ever plays anything but full casters for the purpose of one-upping others with mechanical power, they would be right at home at your table.

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How dumb of an idea are the following things:

>Have Promethean Alchemist trade away all the poison shit, but he and his homunculus share feats and proficiencies with eachother, as long as they're within range of the mental link
>Let the alchemist take Injected Infusions, and then craft a special crossbow so he can inject allies at a safe distance
>give him acid splash as an at-will "cantrip"-esque effect, which he can inject at melee via injected infusions or use with the above crossbow in place of normal ammo
>can retake the alchemist's version of Throw Anything as a discovery, Int-to-Damage effect applies to the acid splash
>with rapid reload, can full-attack with the acid splash

>mfw GM takes the pitch of "just give the poor guy Ana's rifle or something" seriously and wants me to brew it.

>>49872036
Fusing only lowers it for movement restrictions, it says it right there. It would still be Medium for everything else. Yes it is worse than actually using Graft Armor, but that would be true even if it did work completely like it. A 1/day Graft Armor item would let you not suck up +1 from your armor.

Is Celestial Plate + Shield good enough to quest for as a Paladin or should I aim higher with artifacts or whatever?

>>49876235
Its good enough.

>>49876235

Is this your character's reason for adventure?

>>49876259
Initially yes. The LG won't let him just piss off before he sees things through though , even if he gets the armor before it's over.

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>>49876289

Yeah... Nah, I'd give him something bigger to quest for; questing is for artifacts, Celestial Plate isn't an artifact.

The only time you should be questing for something "mundane" is if it's not an item at all, but something like a mansion or castle.

>>49876327
Can you recommend some "holy" type artefact armors that aren't too tightly related to a specific god, then?

>>49876359

Anon's just being a dick, Celestial Plate's fine.

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>mfw homebrew Mythic campaign on Roll20
>mfw it's cliche "players trapped in virtual world" bullshit
>mfw the character creation is actually really cool: level 13, Mythic 6 with Path of War support
>mfw individual sessions are possible for players who are cut off from the group for one reason or another
>mfw the game creator doesn't want to DM

Is this what it feels like to have a confused boner? Because I'm simultaneously amazed and disappointed at this concept.

Speaking of, assuming I want to play a ZweiSent is it better to go Guardian or Champion?

Have you guys seen the new ranger archetype on Worldscape? I'm curious about it

>>49876717
Wait, they're trying to recruit a dm for that game? They're just telling the dm the world they're going to play over?

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>>49876738
Part 1

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>>49876738
>>49876754
part 2

>>49876717
Guardian is trash.
Champion is okay.
Anything but the two casting ones and DSPs manifester one are trash, really, but Champion is passable for a melee.

>>49876717
>literally playing sword art online

kill yourself

>>49876738

The ad creator said he wants to make the campaign and the world, but he really doesn't want to run it and much would rather be a player.

It's basically hype turned to rapid deflation, though I have to admit that sort of stance on the whole thing fits perfectly with the cliche of the premise.

>>49876812
I thought the whole part of SAO was that the game killed you instead.

>>49876812

I'm not playing it, anon.

I said I found the ad, got curious, became genuinely interested in joining even with the trashy tropes and then discovered the ad creator doesn't want to run it.

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>>49875913
Fuckin what

>>49876761
thanks a lot!

>>49876860
Don't believe paizo

Basically a CR equal encounter should be a fucking curbstomp for the players most of the time

>>49876873
>don't believe the people who made the table based on the system they half-borrowed-half-rewrote

You have the mindset of the kind of people that make this game unfun. Do characters who are 1st level need to act out their utter fear of death in their first adventure? Probably not, but it certainly makes for a more interesting experience than having every fight be a damn miniboss.

>>49876873
>CR equal encounter should be a fucking curbstomp for the players most of the time
What?

>>49876922
>I tie a mouse around my wrist, this means weapon cords are a move action now

Yeah. like I said. Don't believe Paizo. They don't understand their own game.

An equal CR encounter is intended to drain about 25% of your resources, usually it won't manage that due to losing in the action economy phase. This should in fact be a curb stomp for the players. They should blow those monsters out of the water and take very little damage.

An equal encounter where they are in real danger of their lives is CR+4. A CR+4 encounter should literally drain every resource they have at their disposal and fucking brutalize them.

Fun fact, if you throw an 'evil guild' at your party, them being at the same level and wealth, thats a cr+4 encounter.

.

>>49876873
That's not how premade adventures are designed, though.

Anyone have the Legendary Vigilante stuff? Or a saved copy of one of the playtests?

>>49877009
premade adventures have awful encounter design though. The players should blow them out easily.

>>49877026
Which is why you need to adjust them for an optimized party.

>>49876785
Trickster is great though

>>49877058
Exactly. Paizo encounters are literally designed for suboptimal 4man parties of a thief, a fighter, a cleric, and a wizard, with all those characters being kinda shit.

>>49877068
Arguable desu
Phoneposting though so let's just agree to disagree

>>49877069
>with all those characters being kinda shit.
Most of the time that's understating it, but then they'll throw in some boss or hard-counter encounter once in awhile that murders the wrong party. So the designing is just shit in every way.

>>49877069
You mean a chained rogue, monk and swashbuckler and their tardhandler wizard.

>>49877257
>>49877068

Guardian is okay if you want to be a hyper-tank.

>>49876754
The sword devil gains charisma to their armor like a monk, but not until 4th level. So is she supposed to wear armor for the first 3 levels and then throw it away at that level? There's a reason why character with Monk style unarmored defense abilities gain those abilities at level 1.

>>49877262
Council of Thieves throws fucking ghouls at you at level fucking two or three.
Ghouls that are likely to get the surprise round on you.
In a room that's like 70% deep water, 15% narrow walkways and 15% steep stairs.
If you try to bottleneck them at the door the guy in front will die.
I think there's some item you can get earlier in the dungeon that makes the fight less brutal but we didn't get it on our run.

>>49877359
Before that level they wear chain bikinis, after that level they were lingerie.

>>49877359
They're just afraid to make a good 1 level dip archetype. God knows multiclassing is OP right?

>>49877262
in short, Paizo can't design.

>>49877412
Given certain constraints (sixth level casting) paizo seems to do fine. They just seem to fuck up on no-casting/full-casting classes.

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>>49876754
>>49876761
>Trades away Favored Terrain
>but not some of the abilities BASED OF FAVORED TERRAIN
>it keeps a bunch of other abilities that don't make any sense with the archetype theme
>it doesn't give dex-to-damage, or even BASIC WEAPON FINESSE
>Cha-based class with shit will progression, but no Will save booster(s), not even the old version of Steadfast Personality
>Cha-to-AC/CMD isn't enough to compensate for losing spell access since it forces you to drop all other AC options for NO FUCKING REASON WHATSOEVER OTHER THAN "LOL MONKS DO THAT"
>Cha-to-offense doesn't kick in until 19th level
>the capstone is bizarrely set up and barely worth thinking about

It started so cool but it rapidly descended into being just so disappointingly BAD. REEEEE

hey /tg/, can you help me with a build?

My group is running a modified kingmaker, with the caveat that we can have no spellcasters.

I rolled pretty well on my stats and so I decided to go with something a bit MAD, a str based ninja going into paladin and then shadowdancer.
How should I build this character? I was thinking of taking combat patrol since shadowdancer already requires dodge and mobility, though spring attack would also be quite nice.

Weapon of choice is a fauchard, but i've got nothing beyond that.Idk if I should maybe consider going Holy tactician or sacred servant (if its allowed)

>>49877453
>no spellcasters

quit the game.

>>49877453
Paladin is a spellcaster, brah. Also shadowdancer is bad, just take the hellcat feat instead. And don't get spring attack.

Actually just throw your entire concept in the trash.

>>49877453
>kingmaker

quit the game.

>>49877458
>>49877536
>>49877549
lolwut.

Yeah I know shadowdancer isn't all that great, but it lets me cast a few spells without being a spellcaster. As for the paladin being a spellcaster... shit youre right. ill probably have to choose an archetype that gets rid of its spellcasting abilities or something. fuck.

>quit the game.
uh... no? fuck off.

>>49877643
That game is going to be cancer and you shouldn't play it.

>>49877662
Care to elaborate on why it'd be cancer? Unlike most of /tg/ I actually have fun in my group.

>>49877683
Pathfinder is intended to be played with casters. Martial classes will not be able to function against higher level enemies without significant magical items, and even then they're much weaker in combat without a caster to buff them up and debuff the enemy.

Kingmaker is one of the worst APs, its core system is badly done and as such it shouldn't be played.

>>49877709
They lack a lot of the OOC tool kit one would normally hope for. While IC a martial can cover himself as long as he has access to magic items (really a martial will still stomp the shit out of kingmaker even without casters if he is optimized) they won't be able to pull a lot of the normal cool out of combat tricks (divination, illusion, teleportation, etc.)

>>49877709
>n against higher level enemies
So you mean level 17-20 bullshit where combat includes so much bullshit it makes late Naruto look reasonable?

>>49877762
Or flying enemies, especially those with damage reduction.

>>49877709
im almost 100% sure that we aren't going to be going entirely off the AP, just using kingmaker as a starting point for my groups shenanigans. Still, I'll keep your warning in mind depending on how it plays out.

As for the no casters = no fun bit... thats kind of the point. Everything is embarrassingly easy because the group typically plays full casters, so we decided to change things up a bit and opted for a low/no magic campaign.

>>49877773
Archery

>>49877784
Yes, if you specialized in archery you'll be able to damage that enemy. If not you're SoL.

>>49877773
A martial can get flying (well I can think of a few ways to do it and it be Ex flight). A martial can bypass DR (as long as they have magic items).

I can build a fighter that will BY HIMSELF defeat the entire king maker AP.

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>>49877709
I rarely see people complain about Kingmaker, ever but I hadn't heard about that problem

>>49877709
>Pathfinder is intended
Considering how misguided and poorly executed designer "intentions" are, this alone isn't a valid criticism for changes to the game. Reduce WBL, remove casters, change the party size, doesn't matter. The DM should be making adjustments anyway to fix what's already broke.

>>49877782
No casters? Sure.

No magic items? Pretty dumb.

No magic period? Actually non functional

Even pure martials, like barbarians, have plenty of Su rage powers.

>>49877803
>Barbarian with flight totems
>Not 1pp, but Path of War(since /pfg/ likes to jerk it off so much, don't get me wrong I like like it too) have several options to deal with both flying enemies AND damage reduction.

>>49877824
The pathfinder game I'm planning is technically no magic in the sense I declared a lot of SU shit as being non magical.

Does that count as "non functional".

>>49877762
No I mean against enemies that you start encountering around level 6 and 7. Like things that fly. Or have DR. Or maybe regeneration thats only disabled by one damage type. Many many things will fuck you over.

Martials need magic items to cover their asses, and if you don't have casters.

>>49877805
Kingmaker's kingdom building is terrible

>>49877782
Not sure why, there's plenty of excellent 6th level casters that will not break a campaign wide open. 9th level casters certainly can if a DM isn't smart about it

If you want to play a low/no magic game, you should just play another system. Pathfinder isn't meant for it and doesn't handle it well.

>>49877816
In this case the game rapidly becomes nonfunctional and impossible. Pathfinder NEEDS magic.

>>49877844
Well if you have to change the definition of non-magical to include magical stuff then yeah.

>>49877816
THIS!

is basically what my group is doing.

>>49877824
Idk about magic items, weve had 2 sessions so far, only 'magical' swag we've gotten so far is a badass pair of axes and some alchemists fire, but were still lvl 1 so that may change. So to reiterate, not sure if there will be no magic items, i think there will be but well have to wait and see. There is ~SOME~ magic and bullshittery but we arent allowed to play them.

>>49877844
why are you planning it in a system that is pretty much explicitly high fantasy sword and sorcery

Pick another system. Shit play d&d 5e, it plays low magic super well.

>>49877803
>barbarian with flight totem
>aasimar/kobold/tengu/strix/sylph with flight feats
>mutation warrior with fly discovery
>that one kind of monk

There are plenty of ways.

>>49877847
>Kingmaker's kingdom building is terrible

To be fair, all of Paizo's secondary systems are terrible.

>>49877867
>>aasimar/kobold/tengu/strix/sylph with flight feats
Fucking powergamers with their non-standard races.

>>49877885
that doesn't mean the kingdom building system isn't awful and given that it is a core system of the kingmaker campaign it is signifiantly more upfront with its awfulness.

>>49877860
>but were still lvl 1 so that may change
You're not supposed to have magic items at level 1.

Player character are extremely reliant on magic items to function. If you don't have them a dragon will simply kill your party because dragons are better than a mortal not decked out in magic.

>>49877847
>Not sure why, there's plenty of excellent 6th level casters that will not break a campaign wide open. 9th level casters certainly can if a DM isn't smart about it

yeah, its not my game. im a player not the DM, so it isnt up to me. in either case, thats not what im here to talk about. im looking for build advice.

>>49877902
I don't even know how a party of martials deals with a dragon

It goes invisible and starts breathing death at you.

>>49877861
>why are you planning it in a system that is pretty much explicitly high fantasy sword and sorcery

I mean does it make a difference if the barbarian sprouting wings and flying isn't a magical effect? Because I'm pretty much ruling that anything that isn't explicitly Arcane/Divine Wizard/Sorc/Orcale/Witch/Cleric/Ranger etc casting isn't magical, functions in an AM field, etc.

>>49877847
>Pathfinder NEEDS magic.
It does not.

>>49877925
Pathfinder needs magic items which need magic. It's one of the core assumptions of the game system.

>>49877925
It absolutely does. The game needs it to function properly. Players need significant piles of magic items, which are. Magic.

>>49877917
So no magic items exist in your setting

Got it, the PCs are fucked.

>>49877902
>draguns R betur

well no shit sherlock. do you have any other insightful shit to say while your mouth breathing ass is sitting there, or are you actually going to contribute something meaningful to the discussion?

the party is about to hit level 2, naturally we wont be getting magic items for a bit longer so i cant comment on wether or not there are magic items in this game?

BUT THAT IS BESIDES THE POINT.

>>49877956
Our point is that your DM is retarded.

>>49877956
>Magic items exist in this setting

>but players can't play characters that use magic, despite it being important

>Because I am a shit DM

>>49877951
>So no magic items exist in your setting
Technically yes. A +1 Sword is just a finely crafted weapon. Boots of flying are alchemical rocket boots. Enemies are also beholden to the rule. No DR/Magic etc.

>>49877917
>Because I'm pretty much ruling that anything that isn't explicitly Arcane/Divine Wizard/Sorc/Orcale/Witch/Cleric/Ranger etc casting isn't magical, functions in an AM field, etc.
Nigga you dumb

>>49877683
The core game itself assumes there will be casters in the party, to the point that enemies/obstacles will require magical means to resolve.
It is an assumption built into the game at it's core level, and goes badly when it's ignored. If you want to play D20 games with no casters, you need to look to shit like Fantasycraft and 4e.

>>49877989
Why? It's basically fluff.

>>49877985
You're pushing a square peg into a round hole mate.

If there are no spell casters who the fuck makes these items? Did you change item crafting feats to no longer require a CL?

>>49877936
>>49877940
Low or no magic settings work fine. The "core assumptions" of the game were fucked from the start, and include assumptions like "an average encounter should be an enemy with hitpoints that a decently built damage character can take out in the surprise round.
If you're so opposed to DMs making their own calls and including their own input, don't use a DM. There's really no point when you can just read the rules, settings, and adventures yourself and play it exactly as written.

>>49877985
No. A Masterwork sword is a finely crated weapon

A +1 Sword is a magically enhanced weapon, beyond the capabilities of being made by a non-mage.

>>49878017
>If there are no spell casters who the fuck makes these items?
Blacksmiths.
> Did you change item crafting feats to no longer require a CL?
Those are probably just going to be banned.

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>>49878020
>Low or no magic settings work fine

>>49877964
Duly noted. Now that you have it out of your system, help me come up with a build for this shitty game.

>>49877972
players all agreed to no/low magic, not the DM. try again dipshit.

>>49877985
This nigga gets it! Thats pretty much how shit will likely go down IMO.

>>49877997
yeah? maybe if youre a shit GM and can't fine tune things in an AP to suit the party.

>>49878017
the fuck does it matter? are you going to be a crafter? if so we gotta make some shit up for your special basketweaving snowflake's ass.

>>49878039
How does the blacksmith make the sword without the feat

>>49878050
Oh. So not only is the DM retarded, you are also fucking retarded.

got it

>>49878030
>No. A Masterwork sword is a finely crated weapon
>A +1 Sword is a magically enhanced weapon, beyond the capabilities of being made by a non-mage.
And in my setting it's going to represent a finely crafted weapon. Explain to me why this is the end of the world and shatters the game in half?

>>49878053
Magic, wait shit.

>>49878057
But there's already rules for

>>49877008
Are you talking about single-enemy encounters? Because it sounds like you're talking about single-enemy encounters.

>>49878057
There's already rules for a finely crafted weapon you mong.

its called a mastercrafted weapon.

>>49878007
I sure am glad my teleportation and being able to suck out souls isn't magical.

Or my ability to turn into a gas, read minds, have my hair come out and strangle people, shoot electricity in a 30ft cone, and raise the dead isn't magical.

>>49878030
READ, NIGGA

>>49878053
Because he's a blacksmith.

>>49878080
So why can't the players make one

Its not like players can't be blacksmiths

Craft (weapons) is a thing.

>>49878050
>the fuck does it matter? are you going to be a crafter? if so we gotta make some shit up for your special basketweaving snowflake's ass.
Literally Kingmaker gives you enormous amounts of down time so you can make magic items.

>>49878079
But a finely crafted weapon is a mastercrafted weapon

>>49878080
nah nigga, its cuz the metal used to forge the blade came from a fuckin falling star, man.

>>49878078
>Or my ability to turn into a gas, read minds, have my hair come out and strangle people, shoot electricity in a 30ft cone, and raise the dead isn't magical.
Vancian casters/Long Range teleportation/And raising the dead are all not allowed.

Setting cosmology doesn't deal with souls, so the ability is wasted.

>>49878100
no its because he folded it 10 GORRILLION TIMES GLORIOUS TIAN STEEL

>>49878099
>>49878030
>But Brawndo's got what plants crave

>>49878089
>So why can't the players make one
They could if they studied under a smith and got all the special knowledge and training needed.

>>49878116
>ITS JUST A FINELY CRAFTED WEAPON
>but rules for finely crafted weapons already exist and
>ALALALAALALAL I'M GONNA KEEP SHOVING A SQUARE PEG INTO A ROUND HOLE

>>49878097
okay, see, I did not know that. I've only played 2 sessions so far and had no downtime.

>>49878112
oh fuck. that sounds insane.

>>49878123
It was in my characters backstory, can I do it now?

>>49878123
But a player character can also just put points into craft (weapons) and literally be better than an NPC smith.

>>49878101
>Vancian casters

You're playing kingmaker, there are plenty of enemy vancian casters.

Even then you did not address how I non-magically turn into a gas or read minds.

>>49878130
>>but rules for finely crafted weapons already exist and
And RPGs exist to be houseruled and modified.

You wouldn't stop using Psionics just because Paizo shat out Occult Adventures?

I use PF like this because PF modified in this fashion meets my needs better than just using 4e/5e/Fantasy craft etc.

>>49878099
Yeah why would you want to use PoW when we already have rules for Fighters?

>>49878123
You know, like what a feat represents?

>>49878131
That's it. I'm sick of all this "Bastard Sword but with better crit" bullshit that's going on in the pathfinder system right now. Katanas deserve much better than that. Much, much better than that.
I should know what I'm talking about. I myself commissioned a genuine katana in Japan for 2,400,000 Yen (that's about $20,000) and have been practicing with it for almost 2 years now. I can even cut slabs of solid steel with my katana.

Japanese smiths spend years working on a single katana and fold it up to a million times to produce the finest blades known to mankind.

Katanas are thrice as sharp as European swords and thrice as hard for that matter too. Anything a longsword can cut through, a katana can cut through better. I'm pretty sure a katana could easily bisect a knight wearing full plate with a simple vertical slash.

Ever wonder why medieval Europe never bothered conquering Japan? That's right, they were too scared to fight the disciplined Samurai and their katanas of destruction. Even in World War II, American soldiers targeted the men with the katanas first because their killing power was feared and respected.

So what am I saying? Katanas are simply the best sword that the world has ever seen, and thus, require better stats in the pathfinder system. Here is the stat block I propose for Katanas:

(One-Handed Exotic Weapon)
1d12 Damage
19-20 x4 Crit
+2 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

(Two-Handed Exotic Weapon)
2d10 Damage
17-20 x4 Crit
+5 to hit and damage
Counts as Masterwork

Now that seems a lot more representative of the cutting power of Katanas in real life, don't you think?

tl;dr = Katanas need to do more damage in pathfinder, see my new stat block.

>>49878136
Yes, but doing so will require you taking a feat.

>>49878146
Spoilers you nigger. I'm only 2 sessions in.

ninja>paladin>shadowdancer for them sweet sweet spell like and supernatural abilities. help me with a build

>>49878146
I'm not the King Maker guy.
>Even then you did not address how I non-magically turn into a gas or read minds.
Those processes just aren't magical within the context of the setting.

>>49878140
Not as good as an NPC smith that's trained under the best of the best for 15 years. Every NPC doesn't need hard fucking stats to do their job. If the player wants to make a weapon they can talk to me and we can work something out.

>>49878131
>okay, see, I did not know that. I've only played 2 sessions so far and had no downtime.
Once your start running the kingdom there is buttfuck loads of down time.

>>49878187
>Spoilers you nigger. I'm only 2 sessions in.
You're playing in pathfinder, literally every AP has plenty of enemy casters. Nigga you dumb as rocks.

>>49878187
>Yes, but doing so will require you taking a feat.
You mean a feat like... I don't know... magic item creation?

>>49878170
>You know, like what a feat represents?
Yes and the players will not be taking feats that give them this unless it's absolutely viable to their concept.

>>49878199
>an npc smith is better cause DM Fiat

Wew lad.

>>49878136
Why not? You're going to need to be a high enough level to have invested the points into blacksmithing, bearing in mind that you can only invest one skill point in a skill per level, materials, toolkits, and time will be needed to craft anything, and >>49878187 indicates a feat is also needed.
Removing magic doesn't break PF, assholes who were already breaking PF would break PF.

>>49878225
>an npc smith is better cause DM Fiat
Yes. If the PC decides they want to be a blacksmith we can work something out.

>>49878215
aw fuck.

>magic item creation
>>49878225
Yeah pretty much. :/ stupid i know but thats how we play it. As for turning into a cloud, if you cant think of a way to explain it, then it cant be done.

>YOU'RE PLAYING THE GAME WRONG
>BANNING CRAFTING MAKES YOU A SHIT DM
>YOU CAN'T HAVE A +1 WEAPON BE NONMAGICAL ITS AGAINST THE RULES

This is retarded as hell.

>>49878231
Removing magic just makes martials even worse at their job to the point at which i don't understand why you're playing pathfinder

Like there are plenty of systems out there that are great for low-no magic fantasy

Pathfinder is not one of them.

>>49878244
>an enemy has DR/magic
>but the players have no magic
>Even their +1 sword isn't magic because the DM is being a retard

>So the enemy with DR/magic is significantly stronger and wrecks their buttholes.

How can a martial character fight anything incorporeal without a magic weapon.

>>49878020
>Low or no magic settings work fine.

Unless you compare to literally any other system.

>>49878244
preach, brother.

>>49878199
>Those processes just aren't magical within the context of the setting.
So turning into a gas, teleportation, reading minds, shooting fireballs/electricity (without items), predicting the future, running on air, having every creature understand my speech, turning ethereal, generating areas of darkness, becoming untagging, turning into a torrent of living shadows, grow wings, and more aren't magical in any way.

>>49878260
> Enemies are also beholden to the rule. No DR/Magic etc.
Most of the enemies would be enemy humanoids and various monsters that have DR/ vs various damage types like Slashing, Piercing, Etc. Or certain materials.

>>49878249
There are plenty of systems better for sci-fi adventures but right there in the DM handbook it says "sure you can do that, add lasers and it'll be neat".
Your preferred way of playing the game need not limit anyone else, and for the life of me I can't fathom why someone playing the game differently pisses so many people of.

>>49878260
Did you miss the part where this game has a fucking DM?

A DM who is the one who decides what threats the party faces?

>>49878260
Dm will probably just make some shit up saying you need a certain caliber of bullet to pierce its armor or someshit, idk, its not my fucking job to figure it out.

>>49878292
Not if he's playing fuckign kingmaker.

>>49878292
There are ghosts in kingmaker.

>>49878301
>bullets
>in a low magic fantasy game
>but there's people with guns

haha yeah sure

>>49878277
> predicting the future
Divination is out, and I'm using Psionics and Alchemy as the only "casting" method with quite a few powers banned(long range teleportation, psychic reform etc, don't have a full list yet).
> and more aren't magical in any way.
In the context of this setting yes. Why is this a hard concept?

>>49878304
GOD DAMMIT, I SAID SPOILERS YOU NIGGER.

also im 100% sure we've got holy water.

>>49878309
fine, not bullets, arrowheads. smartass.

>>49878297
You're implying that a GM deciding to try running a no-magic game in fucking PATHFINDER of all the terrible systems in the world is capable of making good decisions about the game or what challenges the PCs should face.

>>49878302
>>49878304
I'm not talking about fucking kingmaker. I'm not that fucking person.
>>49878309
The setting will have guns.

>>49878337
This guy gets it

The bad decisions from the start (picking pathfinder for a low magic game) make me think more awful decisions will follow

>>49878344
WHO THE FUCK ASKED YOU THEN NIGGA GET THE FUCK OUT

>>49878332
>Divination is out, and I'm using Psionics and Alchemy as the only "casting" method with quite a few powers banned(long range teleportation, psychic reform etc, don't have a full list yet).
Wait wait, so psionics and alchemists do exist? Nigga this shit gets dumber and dumber. Do you just have a hard on for hating casters?

>In the context of this setting yes. Why is this a hard concept?
It isn't, it's just a really fucking stupid one.

>>49878337
>You're implying that a GM deciding to try running a no-magic game in fucking PATHFINDER of all the terrible systems in the world is capable of making good decisions about the game or what challenges the PCs should face.
They could. I played in a 3.5 game that was just tome of battle classes and had a blast.

>>49878358
Well yeah if they were using Path of War no one would think that was bad

But they're clearly not so.

>>49877913

I'm a martial and I regularly slay dragons all the ding dong time, and that's without buffs.

>>49878358
That's not low fucking fantasy though. ToB is plainly high fantasy. And it has magic.

>>49878336
>also im 100% sure we've got holy water.
That's made with magic, though.

>>49878350
>Wait wait, so psionics and alchemists do exist?
Psionics+Path of War+the Alchemist. Every other casting class is out.
> Do you just have a hard on for hating casters?
Vancian casters, yeah.
>It isn't, it's just a really fucking stupid one.
Well that's like your opinion man.

>>49878378
Yeah dude sure thing.

I bet you also fuck all the hottest chicks.

>>49877913

Oh wait let me rescind my post and correct it; how is the DM throwing an invisible dragon at the party who uses strafing tactics supposed to be fun, especially if they establish the fact they simply can't counter it.

>>49878336
>also im 100% sure we've got holy water.
Which is made using magic.

>>49878380
>That's not low fucking fantasy though. ToB is plainly high fantasy.
Not really. It's competent fantasy. There's nothing inherently "high fantasy" about a warblade.

>>49878381
>>49878399

nah, have you seen the movie constantine? priest just prays over some water, dips a silver cross and wham bam thank you maam, thats 2d4 holy damage.
(and even if its magic, so the fuck what. itll be handwaved to not require a spell to make.

>>49878358
I've heard of APs being run with shitty NPC classes, and peasant short adventures and one shots are pretty common in these games. But the game is unplayable without a level 20 wizard and his +9 longsword bowstaff of DR 80 and magic immunity, of course. No fun to be had without that.

>>49878396
>Why is a dragon, an intelligent creature, dangerous and difficult for the party to defeat, and nigh impossible without magic

Gee anon its almost like the game is supposed to be played with magic.

>>49878390
>Psionics+Path of War+the Alchemist. Every other casting class is out.
Nigga who are you. You're not kingmaker guy you just butted in to start shit flinging your garbage opinions.

No but seriously, your hate boner is buttfuck retarded if you're allowing Psionics, some of which are just as strong as the wizard.

>>49878415
>just keep pounding the square peg, I'm sure it'll fit

>>49878100
>>49878112

Nigga I better goddamn expect a starsword to have some magical power.

Imagine if you made a mace out of the Starstone, you could beat people into divinity.

>>49878415
Handwaving =/= a good system/ruleset to play a low-magic game. It'd be much, MUCH easier to just use a system that is actually designed around the concept of "hey there might or might not be magic" rather than the DM being required to change almost every single enemy to be nonmagical.

>>49878422
> some of which are just as strong as the wizard.
Some being the keyword and those powers are getting the axe because it's easier to do that then bring Wizards to heel.

Plus I just like the fluff and mechanics more.
>>49878422
>Nigga who are you
>>49877844
I asked a question

>>49878440
>Handwaving =/= a good system/ruleset to play a low-magic game. It'd be much, MUCH easier to just use a system that is actually designed around the concept of "hey there might or might not be magic" rather than the DM being required to change almost every single enemy to be nonmagical.

yeah, probably. THANKFULLY im not the DM and dont have to deal with that bullshit. AMIRITE?

>>49878415
Literally every enemy you fight after a point in kingmaker is either highly magical, a caster, or carrying his weight in magic items.

>>49878440
>Handwaving =/= a good system/ruleset to play a low-magic game
And Pathfinder isn't a good ruleset at all. We're all fucking flies buzzing around in shit.

>>49878462
If it's already shit, why make it even more shit than it already is?

>>49878452
and im pretty sure were never going to see them because we tend to go waaaaaaaaay off the tracks. Like i said before, kingmaker is the starting point, were very likely going to be doing some other shit thats not in the AP.

>>49878450
>I asked a question
Ah yes. It counts as forcing the square peg into a round hole. Essentially non functional. Sure, you may eventually get it in, but it wasn't meant to go in.

>Some being the keyword and those powers are getting the axe because it's easier to do that then bring Wizards to heel.
Sure buddy. You know what, it's probably fine, but god damn you have sounded retarded throughout this, but I am giving you the benefit of the doubt. Fuck it, it's probably fine.

>>49878451
So instead you're just being an asshole just to be one.

Yeah okay, fuck off.

>>49878451
Yup, you just have to deal with him failing to do that properly.

>>49878480
Let me change my statement then.

A good 80% of the bestiary is highly magical.

>>49878420
>Fools errand
>Do a long jump on the fucker with stance that lets you hop like fucking mario
>grasp and throw the draconic fucker into the ground
>party using primal fury wails on him
>no magic used.

>>49878477
Ask Paizo and 3pps.

>>49878483
>but god damn you have sounded retarded throughout this
You too asshole.

>>49878484
the fuck? youre the asshole that wont help me with a fucking build and instead are making an ass backwards retarded argument about something i have no control over and frankly DOES NOT FUCKING MATTER.

>>49878498
yeah, I'll gladly deal with the fallout. Been with this group for going on 10 years, we've learned how to play the game pretty well, from all ends. This is a pretty good DM.

>>49878503
The fact half of Fool's Errand stuff is Ex, in the context of PF, is retarded. Especially the "I fly by kicking and scrabbling hard enough".

>>49878536
>yeah, I'll gladly deal with the fallout. Been with this group for going on 10 years, we've learned how to play the game pretty well, from all ends. This is a pretty good DM.
Experienced and good aren't at all synonymous.

>>49878393

Yeah man those Ifrit ladies are on fire.

>>49878562
They are in this specific instance. If it were another member of the group running the game I'd probably not even play.

>>49878561
>not double jumping
Seriously, whether or not something is EX or SU in Pathfinder is complete fucking fluff because AM fields almost never fucking come up and grind the game to a mother fucking halt regardless of what house rules you use.

>>49878561
It can even make Mithral Current stuff Ex by taking a feat. And there's nothing wrong with it.

ANYWAY, back on topic.

Ninja>paladin>shadowdancer.

Yeah its shit, take hellcat stealth instead for hide in plain sight. got it, but im in it for the shadow conjuration and shadow evocation. the shadow jaunt is also pretty baller for a mostly martial character.

>>49878579
I'd love to believe you, but it's more probable that you just have stockholm syndrome from 10 years of dealing with a bad GM.

I can see we're having a blowout so maybe I'll ask again later but...
As a Warder focusing SC and EG with a splash of IT and RH, is it worthwhile for me to invest in proper ranged weaponry or can I make do with shield tossing and my shitty light crossbow until I get flight?
Level 6 right now.
Never been this high level before as most games fizzled at 4.

>>49878591
>not double jumping
It isn't double jump. You can keep fucking going up, you never have to touch the ground again once it that stance.

>Seriously, whether or not something is EX or SU in Pathfinder is complete fucking fluff because AM fields almost never fucking come up and grind the game to a mother fucking halt regardless of what house rules you use.
In the context of the game's rules it does. Because something doesn't come up often saying "well shit it doesn't matter, lets do what ever we feels like" shouldn't be the first fucking thing that comes to mind.


>>49878592
It is also pretty fucking stupid.

>>49878624
>In the context of the game's rules it does
It literally doesn't.
>Because something doesn't come up often saying "well shit it doesn't matter, lets do what ever we feels like" shouldn't be the first fucking thing that comes to mind.
It kinda should
>It is also pretty fucking stupid.
>not slicing the air in half with pure fucking skill
The fact the MC is Su to begin with is a travesty in and of itself

>>49878050
>can't fine tune things in an AP to suit the party.
>rearrange the entire math base and enemy design to do something the game clearly isn't built to do
Why not just do your own campaign, rather than an AP if you are doing that much work?
That means you must take a comb to every npc, loot table, enemy encounter. Why not just make something from the ground up?

>>49878579
Seeing you have badwrongfun gets my panties in a tizzy and makes me lash out like an untrained chihuahua please remove yourself so I can feel safer and less triggered.

>>49878605
okay a different system.

>>49878611
lol i chortled IRL. That may be the case.

>>49878660
nah nigga, i gotta get some assistance on the NINJA>PALADIN>SHADOWDANCER concept

For the purposes of saying "this is a magical character," would you guys say Elemental Flux is magic?

>>49878680
the assistance is play a different game

>>49878690
Yes.

>>49878693
lol no.

>>49878680
Shadowdancers ain't lawful.

>>49878624
Fool's Errand is based on shunning magic and achieving the impossible by blending various martial techniques and intense training. It's Charles Atlas Superpower discipline. making it Su would be stupid.

>>49878715
they are when theyre in a lawless land

>>49878561
That's exactly why it's EX. EX abilities in PF don't have to obey our laws of reality.

>>49878690
By the rules, yes. Elemental Flux is a Supernatural Ability and hence magical. That is by the book, by the rules and the default answer to question.
++SPICY HOT OPINIONS/HOMEBREW HERE! AUTISTS NEED NOT CROSS THIS LINE++
In my opinion, it should be the reverse. Everything being magical is supernatural, but not everything that is supernatural is magical. In game worlds you would only be considred "doing magic" if you were making use of Divine/Arcane spellcasting or using the fruits of Divine/Arcane spellcasting.

>>49878715
time to channel my inner DREDD

"I AM THE LEAWWWWWWWWW"

>>49878680
>PALADIN
Paladins are spellcasters

>>49878736

Your spicy opinion is delicious, I want to use it for a salsa!

>>49878750
I AM VENGEANCE.

I AM THE NIGHT!

>>49878755
aw fuck. i had forgotten anon. god dammit. ill probably have to choose the archetype that takes away their spells.

>>49878736
>In my opinion, it should be the reverse.
Fuck yes I agree with this. Druid shapeshifting shouldn't be magic in PF terms. A wizard polymorphing himself to achieve the same effect should be.

I WANT A VARIANT TIEFLING ABILITY

HOW DO I GET ONE OF THOSE

I DON'T WANNA CAST SPELL

>>49878750

I read that as inner lewd and was a little excited before being disappointed. Yet again.

>>49878731
They however should maintain some form of internal consistency. "Continually kicking to fly" does not maintain this consistency. I'm sure you're going to reply to this with something like "muh dragons couldn't fly if physics". I really don't care. Both thematically and in relation to other Ex forms of flights the stance is god awful.

>>49878785
Muh Wuxia.

>>49878784

You're such a slut, anon, always gorging on lewd yet never feeling satisfied.

>>49878778
Ask your GM

>>49878775
>aw fuck. i had forgotten anon. god dammit. ill probably have to choose the archetype that takes away their spells.
There is only one.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/warrior-of-the-holy-light

>>49878785
>"Continually kicking to fly" does not maintain this consistency.
But it does. If it were magic, he wouldn't have to kick. You can disagree with the thematic aspect but PF is a clusterfuck of themes shoved together that don't fit so you should first remove gunslingers, ninjas, monks, etc.

>>49878815
Theres also the PoW one that removes spells.

>>49878815
thx anon, was already there.
>http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/paladin/archetypes/paizo---paladin-archetypes/temple-champion
also works.

>>49878775
How attached are you to Paladin?

>>49878837
since i havent taken levels in it, not at all. what are you thinking anon? Fighter lore warden?

>>49878867
Slayer? There's an archetype that can get you some Spell Likes if you want and it's just a damn solid class in general.

>>49878785
If anything, more disciplines should be like Fool's Errand and give you interesting or even crazy options. It let's you lock a goddamn kraken in place with sheer killing intent, goddamnit!

>>49878806

>tfw not sure if /x/ is right about succubus being real or /pol/ is right about degeneracy

>>49878896

Oh sweet Jesus I just realized Stygian Slayer is Reaper.