Let's talk about books, /tg/. What books would you consider

>>49814465
Gormenghast has a lot of suffering. And backstabbing. And endless tradition.

>>49814465
I quite like the Powder Mage series.

Dresden Files is always a solid choice. "Aeronaut's Windlass" by Jim Butcher is cool if you want some sci-fi steampunk-esque stuff.

The Expanse books are supposed to be quite good(I have the first one, but haven't started on it yet).

The Gentlemen Bastards series by Scott Lynch is quite fun with a cool setting.

Then there's some older stuff: Conan, John Carter, HG Wells, Dune and so forth.

Im a big fan of Brandon Sandersons Kingkiller Chronicles,as well as Mistborn because the magic system in it is super unique and interesting

>>49814465
what have you read?

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>>49814465
Lord of light is pretty fucking fantastic.

>>49817119
You say things. Bullshit mostly, but things too.

>>49817578
I've read Dresden Files up to Cold Days.
Almost all the witchers, safe for the last two due to slow translation progress. The quality's good though.
On discworld, I've mostly read stories related to Vimes and Rincewind, but I really enjoyed Small Gods.
I've tried reading some Dragonlance, but my endless hatred for Kenders keep me from doing it.
As a kid, I REALLY enjoyed Skulduggery Pleasant, but then it had to go full retard mode with the shades posessing and all the other stuff. I still want to play as a skeleton with my group, but the DM simply will not permit it, end of discussion.
Maze Runner series was decent, although the telepathy was kinda silly. Can we talk about page 250?

https://www.goodreads.com/series/45895-shadows-of-the-apt
Fucking seriously.
I don't know why /tg/ doesn't love this series, renaissance-era steampunk/clockwork tech-having world populated by people who channel the attributes of various insects, ranging from ants with a city-wide hivemind to mantis-kinden who are here to fuck you up to moths and butterflies high as balls on thoroughly trippy magic to spiders who run an entire empire on charm and just as planned.
It's great.

Check out the Macht books by Paul Kearney if you get a chance. Psuedo-Greek dark fantasy retelling the rise of Alexander the Great on an alien world.

Suffering top 3

>Prince of Nothing
Tolkien on max suffering mixed with philosophy and crusades
.i think this is edgiest book possible without it becoming comedy
>The First Law
Wizards have no sense of right and wrong. Cannibal moslim ninjas vs jews is utterly correct description of this book
>Prince of Thorns
The edge to surpass shadow the edgyhog. You can shave yourself with first book and cut trees with third one.

>>49817701
>Skulduggery Pleasant
My nigga.
Read that one all the way to the end, a bit goofy but good enough.

If you want suffering I can recommend the First Law series and its sequels, by Joe Abercrombie. Very gritty and dark, lots of suffering, but very low magic.

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>Crown of Cold Silver
Asshole Gay Quipvengers with suprisingly interesting worldbuilding, neat quips and perfect example of evil party. Actually shows really well working of party that is made out of evil backstabbing cunts that are stuck together.

>>49819652
>2nd Spoiler
Goddamn, you're not wrong, though that's not even counting the two best characters: "fucking stairs" and the world's least reliable mercenary (though you need Cold Days to get the best bits of him)

>>49815112
>The Gentlemen Bastards series by Scott Lynch is quite fun with a cool setting.
Gentleman Bastard might be my favorite fantasy series ever, although that's probably because it hits all the right buttons for me.

Thorn of Emberlain never :(

>>49819868
How's Red Country by the way ?
On one hand last story, on the other hand it sounds a lot like True Grit and was wondering how much was copypasted

B L A C K C O M P A N Y

>>49819932
>last
I wouldn't bet on it, not unless he's said something?

It's pretty good, got the standard Abercrombie cowards and fights, plenty of call-back characters, but out in Red Country everyone is pretty desperate and worn out.

>>49818558
Looks good, added the first to my wishlist. Thanks for the suggestion!

>>49819834
I only got a few chapters in, but I was quite enjoying it. Took a bit long to get rolling, but the world seemed awesome.

>>49819917
Dis he say it was cancelled? I thought he had plans for at least 4 more books, plus short stories/novellas.

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>Dresden Files
Good stuff, but as the series went on I became very frustrated with events not having the consequences they should've had and I quit after reading Dead Beat. And I'm not talking about applying real world logic to them. A sorcerer with much less experience than Harry and little to no education in theory-of-magic figured out how to harness lightning for the purpose of mass producing potions, which means Harry could've done it and sparked a magic-industrial revolution that would've given wizards a massive edge in the war. That's only the first gripe I have, but it is representative of most of them because Jim Butcher hauls out a new magic trick in every book and then it's never seen again.

Check out the Lightbringer series, it can be kinda edgy at times but handles it well. The way the magic system works is pretty cool too, I was impressed by the world building.

>>49820599
Dead Beat is about the time when the series started getting good, to me, then it went down hill a bit after changes, but it's starting to recover

>>49820429
>Dis he say it was cancelled? I thought he had plans for at least 4 more books, plus short stories/novellas.
Not cancelled. Just delayed indefinitely.

>>49814465
at the risk of getting attacked by the contrarian brigade, you really should try reading A Song of Ice and Fire, or at least the Dunk & Egg novellas.

Been reading Lovecraft lately. There's a good free app with all his work, letters and incomplete stuff and everything.

>>49820740
I don't think you're going to get attacked by contrarians. You're going to get attacked for suggesting a series everyone knows already. It might be more famous than LotR at this point, at least among younger people.

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>>49814465
Non-suffering related but good
Johannes Cabal The Necromancer
By Johnathan L Howard
Another interesting series is The Leandros brothers series by Rob Thurman think WoD Hunters. Sorta.
The Shotgun Arcana has a bit of suffering in it. It was a pretty cool book. By R.S Belcher
Oh and Dave Vs. The Monsters by John Birminghan.

>>49820757
he said he hasn't read it, bruh. >>49817701

>>49817119
What's good about Mist magic?

>>49817701
Read the Bartimaeus Trilogy.

>>49820740
>Song of Ice and Fire
Meh, everybody has already seen the sexy summary through tv.
Only reason to read it is if you want to see your favourite characters not acting as retards.

>>49820761
>Johnanes Cabal
Best pulp series to be released in last years. Also there is enough suffering just not for MC.

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>>49820806
Yeah I really enjoyed the hell out of it, probably one of my favorite series now to date.
Also! I'd suggest "No Hero" By Johnathan Wood
It's like Big trouble in Little China but more serious and more lovecraftian elements. Another one to go under this category is "John Dies At The End" by David Wong.
"Sixty One Nails" by Mike Shevdon is about old school fae reminded me of oWoD changling.
For some old Tesetment style suffering I suggest the godpunk books like "The Age of Ra" And others.

>>49820806
>Meh, everybody has already seen the sexy summary through tv.
Game of Thrones butchered A Song of Ice and Fire.

>>49814465
The Black Company by Glen Cook

>>49820913
Some of the best military fantasy I read. Tried to read Stigers Tigers but couldn't get into it.

Brotherhood of the Wheel was definitely some urban fantasy worth looking into, even if it's just for the novelty of modern dayou templars not being the bad guys

>>49820900
Said fans about every adaptation ever

>>49820987
BBC adaptations of I, Claudius and Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrel were pretty good. Books for both were also baller, possibly more baller, but still faithful adaptations.

>>49820987
The problem isn't just that it's a bad adaptation. The problem is its so popular its now almost impossible to have a good discussion about the book series.

>>49821049
Ifor by unable you mean someone who only saw the show simply not getting what's really going on, then I had that conversation a lot, but mostly with this girl who never read the books the characters from Penny Dreadful were drawn from.

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>>49820788
Actually metal magic, the mists are tangential

Also Stormlight 3 when?

I need more Syl being Best Girl/Emotion Elemental

>>49821096
Using metal as an adjective is a good way of turning me off of touching that.

>>49821049
it's hard to have a discussion about the show itself, tbf. normies can't even remember half the characters.

>>49817609
muh nigga

>>49814465
For good old fashioned suffering, The Book of the New Sun is pretty depressing, and has a very interesting and mysterious setting (humanity returned to earth from the colonies and now it's medieval and maybe Argentina)

Also seconding >>49817119 for the King Killer chronicles, the first half of the first book is some of the most depressing stuff I've read

Also the Hyperion Cantos. It's all about suffering

>>49814465

If you want suffering, look up Worm, Pact, and Twig. They're web serials. The first two are finished, the third is ongoing.

>>49821121
Not metal as in the kind of music
As in ingesting flakes of metal to gain powers like strength or being able to pull metal

>>49821096
>rather than answering the question, responds with pointless pedantry
So this is the kind of man that reads those books.

>>49821186
Sounds like something Tim Powers would have wrote.

>>49821197
>asks whats good about "mist magic"
>told the magic is based on the mists but on metals
>gets mad

Unless >>49820788 was asking "What is so good about magic in this series?" In which case I would have answered properly if I understood that he meant that, perhaps if he had used the actual name of the series and asked "Whats good about MistBORN's magic?" as to make himself understood

There's a pretty contemporary take on emotional stuff in Deep Sounding and Brandon Carbaugh's other stuff. Not the kind with physical pain and bereavement though, and it's kind of generational so if you're much older than thirty, it might not resonate worth you.

>>49821247
Clearly that post was requesting more pointless pedantry.

>>49820805
These books are good shit for worldbuilding. I second this anon's motion.

Also, David Gemmell wrote a ton of great stuff in a wide range of genres. The Drenai saga is good for more mundane fantasy settings, especially the Druss novels. If you're looking for something Western and/or post-apocalyptic, the Jon Shannow trilogy has you covered (also probably my favourite series ever).

>>49821285
Is pedantry the only thing mistborn fans do when asked about what's so good about it?

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>>49821333
>>49821285
>>49821247
>>49821197
>>49821186
>>49821121
>>49821096
Would you all just stop it? I'll try to answer the intent of the original question.

The magic system (there are actually several inter-related magics in the series) is interesting in so far as it possesses well explained concrete rules about how it functions and the costs associated with it which makes for very tense drama that allows the reader to always have a pretty strong grip on what characters can or can't do with their abilities but still be surprised when someone thinks of a novel way to utilize them. Or to recognize when someone is clearly breaking the magic rules somehow.

The second point often raised is that the society of the setting integrates the existence of this magic into its structure fairly well in every aspect from religion to architecture to warfare and politics.

The story itself is pretty good too, if a little predictable. I'm never sure if Sanderson is really good at foreshadowing and I just read it too well from being genre savvy or if he overplays his hand too early in all his books.

Also, some of his characters are fairly one-dimensional. He got a bit better in some of his later books.

I don't get the love for the Gentleman Bastards. First book sucked....

>>49821475
You don't like smooth criminals trying to get out of clusterfuck of garguntuan proportions relying only on their wits, friends and schemes ?

Any recommendations for good recent series that emulate the style of Edgar Rice Burroughs, preferably with a decent number of books?

>>49821872
Some people just hate fun.

>>49821872
>relying only on their wits, friends and schemes
and author fiat, gotta do that.

One of my problems with the books is the villains are idiots, and Locke wins more because he is struggling against morons than because he's especially clever.

>>49821953
Edgar Rice Burroughs wrote a lot of stuff. Be a bit more specific.

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>>49820913
I read tons of shit and I always return to The Black Company. The way Cook writes is so fucking natural and great, every character in other books reads like a cardboard joke now.

The prose drips with personality and there's some decent suffering in there too.

>>49822482
If I had to choose I'd say something closer to Tarzan or Pellucidar.

>>49817701
If suffering is your thing, make sure to read Skin Game.

For bonus points, Harry isn't even the one who goes through the most of it this time.

>>49821165
Complete with lots of suffering!

>>49817701

>Skulduggery Pleasant

Still annoyed that the last book ruined the ending with the epilogue that runs throughout. Though at least the yellow eyed man reveal was well done

New book coming next year so theres bound to be so alt dimension shenanigans.

>>49822609
I found it a bit difficult to get through the first one, honestly.
Things seemed to bounce about too rapidly, does it slow down a be, or is that the pace it keeps?

>>49822468
That brings a good question: what series has a clever villain? I know whole the dagger and coin series has a lot of shortcomings, it's villain is some top notch shit, not because he is smart, but because his descent into villainy is one you can empathize with.

>>49820599
m8 it's established that making those potions should have been way beyond Victor Sells' abilities and that he had help from an unknown, powerful party. That's kind of the point of the first couple of books: establishing that shit is happening that shouldn't be happening; new players rising to power from nothing, all because of some shady shit in the background that is way beyond Dresden at the time. Keep reading dude.

>>49825496
It's been a while, but I think that was mostly Jim pulling off a patchjob/soft retcon to make up for the flaws in his first two books, and it was book 3 that was written with foreshadowing in mind.

Not that I'm complaining, since it's incredibly rare for writers to be able to rework unplanned earlier content and make it look like it was intentional all along. Mostly you end up with clusterfucks like Harry Potter.

Really weirdly, one of the best examples of doing it right comes from Tails gets trolled

>>49819934

The company is home, friend.

>>49820599

Or you know, harnessing the power of lightning is fucking RETARDED and DANGEROUS. And without creepy black magic sponsors, it's hard to do without killing yourself.

>>49824208

It varies a little, but it helps if you can get to grips with it being half-annals, half bar-story.

>>49820900
The books are trainwreck of purple prose and overdescriptiveness. I don't fucking care about neeps and what doublet .the third pageboy from the right was wearing

>>49822468
The Grey King is pretty smart, but he lets his ego get the best of him at the end.

The nobles, though? Oh yeah, they're idiots. Then I think they're supposed to be.

>>49814465
>suffering
>Search thread, no Elric
The protagonists entire existence is suffering, it's kind of the point.
Stormbringer is the companion we all deserve.

>>49821165
>>49823015
You want worm related suffering?
Enjoy!
https://forums.sufficientvelocity.com/posts/2130998/

>>49827348
From what I recall, Locke specifically targets nobles that he knows have the weaknesses he can exploit easily.

In many cases, that's blind idiocy

>>49827544

Beat me to it.

With Elric already mentioned, honorable mentions go to a lot of the OTHER Eternal Champion books.

I would also suggest the Thomas Covenant books.

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>>49815112
Second for Powder Mage trilogy, guns in fantasy settings are my jam

>>49820599
Really my biggest gripe is Mab. She has her fingers in every plot and scheme imaginable. Yes she's a millennium old demigod, but dies she have to be everywhere?

>>49830796
*does

>>49830796
I think that's just because they're written from Harry's perspective, and she's pretty heavily invested in gatecrashing everything he does.

I doubt she has as much constant presence worldwide

Wet Skin

>>49826379
>Really weirdly, one of the best examples of doing it right comes from Tails gets trolled
I almost hate to ask, but what example is this?

>>49831242
The guy successfully tied some off the cuff panels, one of which was among the first pages, to transition the light hearted fuckery of the comic into Berserk tier, and had them fit in perfectly.

Absolutely none of the earlier ones were written with the twist in mind, but he fit them in by doing a bit of legwork foreshadowing before the twist.

>>49830796
You do realize that Mab (the mantle, not the person) is one of the Triple Goddesses? The webspinners, the Fates, the Norns. Of course she has paws in everything. It's literally in her job description.

>>49831462
No, i didn't. Well that kind of confirms that i'm almost retarded.

>>49831044
>>49830796

She is everywhere in /Harry's/ life, which, given the fact that he's got a Winter Sidhe godmother (the which position Mab herself deigned to take over for a time) and is now the Knight of Winter only makes her apparent power obvious to (let's be honest here) a complete thickhead like Harry.

Remember these books are written, with the exception three side stories, entirely from Harry's point of view. The side story we get from Thomas really shows how small Harry and his issues are in the broad scope of things.

>>49820805
Thirded

>>49815112
>"Aeronaut's Windlass"
I loved Codex Alera, but I couldn't even finish Windlass. I don't know if it was the cats or the "ooo, look how cooky we are" mages, but I found it to be an unpleasant read.

>>49817119
I thought Patrick Rothfuss was the Kingkiller author.
Also, "kingslayer" sounds waaaaay better, Jaime be damned.

>>49827348
>>49828624
The line is something like that they go after "nobles with more coin than sense." There's also a part during the scene outside the temple where it says that "if Don Salvara could tell a fake strangling from a real one in the blink of an eye at 40 paces, they'd badly misjudged the man." It's pretty clear they choose their marks carefully

As for the Grey King, I thought he was too competent in too many fields if anything. The villain can't be better than the hero at what the hero is supposed to be good at or the only way the hero can win is by sheer, dumb, contrived, luck. And if the Gentleman Bastards were any cleverer people would complain they were Mary Sues

MALAZAN
A
L
A
Z
A
N

>>49820599
>good stuff

You mean shit for faggots.
Butcher is a hack, and is just lucky there's currently a modern fantasy drought.

>>49814465
>Dresden Files

I absolutely did NOT get the appeal of the series. And I'm a sucker for modern fantasy. Maybe 4chan has ruined my ability to have fun, but, honestly it felt embarrassing to read at parts.

My personal favorite fantasy books/short stories/whatever probably aren't any better in other peoples eyes, though.

>Jirel of Joiry series
>Conan series
>Discworld, top three books being Thud!, Monstrous Regiment, and Pyramids
>The King in Yellow
>Grunts!
>The Silmarillion

I get my jollies and /tg/ related ideas through music, thank you very much. You should also consider looking at old-school plays/mythology texts, especially shakespeare since he had a hardon for gruesome violence and magic.

>The Bacchae
>The Birds
>The Most Lamentable Tragedy Of Titus Andronicus (If you're looking for suffering, there you fucking go.)
>The Tempest

>>49834292
>>Discworld, top three books being Thud!, Monstrous Regiment, and Pyramids

Pyramids has the best single moment in all of Discworld, followed closely by the conclusion of Hogfather, but it's still not a better overall book than others like Small Gods or Carpe Jugullum in my opinion

>>49834510
>Carpe Jugulum
I came into that book with great expectations, but maybe I was just let down due to the fact that I was spoiled by the two best vampires before heading into it. I need to read more books involving the Witches, I really felt out of the loop. I also wished Oats got more focus.

>Hogfather
I'd probably swap this or tie this with Pyramids. It's just been a long time since I've read it.

>Small Gods
Eh. I didn't really find it that compelling, to be honest, though I adored the not!Greece setting.

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>>49822609

My favorite Glen Cook series is actually the Garret P.I. books. I always wanted a detective noir in an actual fantasy world.

>>49834550
>I need to read more books involving the Witches, I really felt out of the loop.

It's definitely not a book you should read before any of the other Witches book, there's somewhat of a greater story arc to it, and I think Carpe Jugulum is the conclusion or something

>Eh. I didn't really find it that compelling

Fair enough.

>all those fantasy books
>nothing about traditional games

OP, a good start for /tg/ related fiction in Magister Ludi, by Herman Hesse. The rest of this stuff is just pulpy shit.

>>49835263
7/10 /lit/ bait, you should hook a couple of people with this

Glad to see that there are others that aren't so enamored with The Dresden Files.

>>49814465
Here's a question /tg/: are there any /tg/ properties with so much as decent novels?

>>49835755
I'd say most people wouldn't like the series.
It's so poorly written that recommending it, especially with the lie that it becomes good after the first two books that even the fans agree were shit, is almost a criminal act.

>>49835861
Yes. I quite enjoyed several books from Black Library, both 40k and Fantasy (Ciaphas Cain series for 40k, Ambassador and Ursun's Teeth for Fantasy). The Icewind Dale Trilogy from Forgotten Realms (D&D) wasn't my cup of tea, but many people enjoy them. I've heard good things about the Thieves' World books.
Raymond E. Fiest's Magician: Apprentice and Magician: Master are, more or less, two different RPG settings fighting each other.

Are they Shakespeare? No, but you wouldn't look at Black Library or a D&D book for high culture type stuff. But for enjoyable reads with good characters, interesting plots, and immersive worlds, they can be great.

Are there any good 40k novels about marines fighting straight forward battles?
I'm tired of weekly fate of the galaxy climaxes, unnecessarily complicated secrets within secrets, and Imperial politics.
I want to see what Thursday is like for a space marine. Just an average battle with an enemy in need of a good killing, and some badass super soldiers willing to provide that service.

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>>49814465
dune it'll make you want to join isis, or Greenpeace, possibly both

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>>49814465
joe abercrombie's the first law series is good
if inquisitor glokta ort to tick the suffering box

>>49835861
necromancer, maybe?
or do androids dream of electric sheep

tho i suppose they're more like /tg/ inspired

>>49821472
I like you.

>>49834292
you just need the audio books James Marsters sells it for me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ri2oToPQE1E

>>49833592
Fuck, you're right. I meant the way of kings. Fuck Kingkiller Chronicles and Patrick rothfuss. Dont read that shit.

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>>49814465
I've gotten into the Bolo series recently, so far mostly David Weber's stuff. Giant sapient supertanks that act like dutiful knights make me want to play a warforged paladin or some other kind of machine character with a power plant of gold.

Also they all die. They always die. Nike, Benjy RIP

>>49836449
That makes more sense. On many levels.

>>49833562

The mages are actually really sad, aether magic erodes the user's mind, and without their coping mechanisms they're too broken to function as human beings.

>>49836755
I know. But that doesn't excuse it, as far as I'm concerned. They come across like the witch girl form Eragon, or a mediocre fanfiction version of Luna Lovegood.

Having an excuse doesn't stop them from being annoying, especially when old man wizard starts getting into Philosophy 101 discussions.

>>49830638
Kickstarter for the RPG launches tomorrow.

>>49833562
I thought the cats were an interesting touch, and Rowl's perspective of things was perfectly arrogant.

The mages are all lunatics. Without their specific thing they have no sense of humanity. The magic has eroded their mind, basically, so they become insanely detached without their thing which grounds them(Folly's crystals, for example) I thought it was a nice touch, but to each their own. I enjoyed it and thought I'd throw it out there.

>>49834056
Yeah, they pick the don perfectly. I'm reading Red Sails now and it seems like they have gotten in way over their heads with the Sinspire.

>>49833250
The stories from the others' POV are really good at illustrating how limited Harry's perspective is.
Molly is stuck in hero-worship mode, but also watches Andi undress before she transforms, and doesn't even comment. Harry would have pointedly turned away while blushing and Andi would have given him shit for it.
Thomas has the whole Oblivion War "I closed the case by raping the culprit to death" thing.
Murphy thinks Harry comes off as autistic.
Marcone has literally no fucks left to give.

>>49831527
>>49831462
Pretty sure she's Persephone (she's got it in with Hades, after all) because the Mothers are clearly Demeter.

>>49835861
I feel like pic related was a fairly solid read.

Sadly the games I like don't seem to get novels. It's all D&D and Warhammer with the rare exception. Tried reading a Warmachine novel, but just couldn't get into it. Mostly because my favorite character in that setting seemingly gets little screen time.

I'd love more MERCS, Heavy Gear, Dropzone Commander, Mutant Chronicles and the likes. I think Dystopian Wars lends itself to plenty of story fun times.

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>>49837277
And like a total dipshit forgot to attach my picture.

Also Freebooters Fate; I'd love some novels in that world.

>>49837254
>Marcone has literally no fucks left to give.
It really is impressive. Gotta love the man.

>dresdenfags

You know you're supposed to be at least 18 to post here, right?

>>49837347
Shit, you're right, sorry, we'll get back to making 40k threads, right away

>>49837369
40k isn't completely centered around a vapid, juvenile mess of idiotic masturbation.

There's miniature painting. That's at least a skill.

>>49837406
Man, my autism only extends to properly statting a Shadowrun character. Mini painting would require levels of autism I don't think I'm even capable of.

>>49837406
>40k isn't completely centered around a vapid, juvenile mess of idiotic masturbation.

This is sarcasm, right?

>>49837755
>>49837435
>>49837406
>>49837369
>>49837347

Maybe you guys should try calling Dresden up for advice on recognizing trolls.

>>49837780
And end up with my house and all my belongings destroyed? Yeah no, I'm familiar with how Dresden operates.

>>49814465
For suffering, try Robin Hobb.
Start with the Assassin Apprentice.

Plenty of life destroying moments.

>>49837811
I'm pretty sure you'll get laid at the end though god knows Dresden won't

>>49838059
I take it you haven't read Skin Game.

God knows he's earned it

>>49838694
>implying Peace Talks won't consist entirely of Harry and Murphy getting cockblocked and never at last doing the deed

Did anybody read Ranger's Apprentice as a kid?

>>49837028
Different strokes, but I didnt mind it because their various forms of insanity, with a dash of lucidity, are actually consistent.
It actually is mental illness, and not the *hold up spork* of Angela and the like

Library at Mount Charr.

You'll thank me later anon

>>49837262
Nigga, what? She arranged Hades and Persephones honeymoon, as mentiojed in Skin game.
Skin game also confirms her and Molly and granny Winter as being Hekate.

>>49838905

I reread them recently and they're still not bad as kids books go.

>>49838905
They're no Animorphs

>>49820599
victor sells potion,
the FBI werewolf belt,
the gift his aunt receive from bianca,
the fae princess corruption

All that shit is linked to a higher third party.
Even the Daenerians arent really aware of that third party, only Mab and gatekeeper are..

>>49814465
advice reguarding scifi book :
Old's man war (synopsis, on my 65th birthday i did two things, i went to the grave of my wife, and i enlisted in the army)
the common wealth sage by peter F hamilton, the pandora revealed and juda's unchained book are really great.

>>49839674
>Even the Daenerians arent really aware of that third party
Ummm, yes they are. At least Nic after the revelation that Hellfire was used in the sacking of Arctis Tor, back in the aquarium, forgot which book. And after that, Nic has confirmed that this enemy is also their enemy since the unknown third party (black council plus maybe outsiders and fomorians) wants to destroy reality, something Anduriel is opposed to

>>49822609
i liked the black company, but once they start heading toward "india" and the shadow realms i started losing interest, i still read the whole thing and the relation between Doc and Lady is nice.
i loved the first books the Lady and her henchmen were great too bad they didnt develop them more.

As far as YA books go...

There's some series I'm blanking on name of author/series/title, but it's effectively a Witcher clone with less hope. The main character is a seventh son of a seventh son and it is set in some slightly alternate reality, with lots of low magic. If I recall properly, it ended with what was effectively the Devil ruining everything after specifically making the MC's life shit.

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>>49834510
>Pyramids has the best single moment in all of Discworld
In Pyramids? Which bit?

It is a pretty great book, though when it comes to single great moments I think most of the Death books have one really good one in them that steals the book - Death's power chord and bike bit in Soul Music, WHᴀt cᴀɴ tHe HᴀRvest Hope ғoR ʙut tHe cᴀRe oғ tHe ReᴀpeR mᴀɴ?, Hogfather's entire ending, and (retroactively) Death laughing at the end of Mort.

I'd also put Night Watch and Thief of Time up there, though they both benefit from reading all the others.

>>49834550
>>49834953
Yeah, Carpe Jugulum is the last main series Witch novel, though the Tiffany Aching series joins up with them, as the main series witches turn up from time to time there.

I preferred Lords and Ladies though, I felt it did it better. And Magrat getting her warrior-queen on was amazing

>>49839709
ho yeah true i forgot about the hell fire part when harry finds his aunt frozen as a popsicle.
Nic is the only daenarian to know about the others the rest of are clueless now that deirde is gone.
Pretty sure nic will never give her coin to anyone else.

>>49839762
The Last Apprentice/Wardstone Chronicles.

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>>49839775
Damn it, fucked the formatting.

>>49839847
>Nic is the only daenarian to know about the others the rest of are clueless now that deirde is gone.
His wife knows, and she's probably one of the badder guys.
>Pretty sure nic will never give her coin to anyone else.
He will have to, because, he had 15 denarians MAX and he lost two very important ones in Skin Game (ursiel and lasciel), plus all the others that are in safekeeping... He needs an army, he can't afford to be alone

>>49839916
i m not sure, he seemed "affected" as much as he could be by the death of his real daugher, sure the coin holds deidre but the "complicity" between nic/anduriel and deidre/bloodrelateddaughter is never going to be the same.
at least that my humble opinion.
Tessa a cunt

All butcher should focus on finishing dresden instead of aeronaut victorian floating cities pirate tales.

>>49839966
>All butcher should focus on finishing dresden instead of aeronaut victorian floating cities pirate tales.
Checked.
Fuck, Peace Talks should've been out last month, but his new bimbo wants to suck his money out of him so he doesn't have the time.
And I shudder at the thought that he's gonna write Maggie+Mouse stories parallel to the Dresde Files. We'll never get to the BAT

>>49840002
holifuck.
maggie n mouse... that s disney tier right there, especially if geek medicolegist knight of the cross uncle is there to act as the male character.

>>49840020
But, wait, there's more!
They will be in a magical boarding school and it will be like Harry Potter meets Anita Blake

>>49840108
I wot, lad?

Also, the fact that the pupper who inspired Mouse recently died can only mean bad things.
We all know Jim uses Harry as his stress ball/punching bag

>>49840178
fuck maggie and mousse better not die in the serie.
good ol'arry already lost quite a lot...

Whargoul is a pretty fun read, only really /tg/ because the MC is a murderhobo though.

>>49840191
The fact that he's actually improving his situation is worrying, since he's got far more to lose

>dream waifu
>kid that doesn't hate him
>most loyal pupper in the world
>is an an uncle
>heavy implications that Bob and Butters' theories about the winter mantles are actually bullshit
>just have one of the worst mortal villains who ever lived the wrecking of a lifetime
>has made a comeback and has friends he can rely on
>has a new house

Something's going to give

>>49840257
i know but he still had it rought
cant live with his child
killed the mother of his child
had his own apprentice become a fae
lived an illusionnary relationship with luccio
cant be with the woman he loves.
is forsaken to serve iron hearted mab
is the warden of a hellish prison.

I dont remember did he tell the carpententer Molly has changed?

I wonder how butcher will end the serie
i feel it s been a while since the archive has shown up

>>49840309
>I dont remember did he tell the carpententer Molly has changed?
Nope. He almost blurted out, but it came out wrong, and Michael thinks that Harry and Molly are just having sex.
Harry wants Molly to tell them that she's the queen of the wicked fairies

>>49840257
>uncle
>new house
>gave one of the worst mortal villains who ever lived the wrecking of a lifetime
I don't recall him getting a house, just agreeing not to be on the island all the time?

>>49840340
that s gonna be tought cause Michael can understand and come around but Charity certainly wont.

>>49840348
his new house is demonreach. if you can call that a house.

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>>49835861
Here's about the only really solid 40k book I ever truly liked.

>>49840348
He is going to live with Molly, which makes sense, because Slate lived with Maeve.
>>49840354
I hope it gets done in Peace Talks since I can't wait for anoher Dresden short story antology, and I don't want to spend monies on crap anthologies. Yes, I know pirating is a thing, but I want to support the Butcher man

>>49840408
>He is going to live with Molly
Makes sense, to a degree - I'm sure Molly will be happy with it, and it's liable to lead to more misunderstandings with the Carpenters about them sleeping together, but what book?
Have I just forgotten the end of Skin Game or something?

>>49840424
It wasn't in a book. Jim said it at a con or someting. Iirc, he was asked about how will he father a child in the wilderness, and he told them that he would be living with Molly

this thread made me want to read the dresden files again.

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>>49840620
Yeah but we're still over a year from a new one

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>>49840642
Well thank you also fuck you.

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>>49840658
>>49840642

>>49840658
>>49840642
Given that he released the first chapter, it's a safe assumption that it's bearing the editing process, if not being there already

>>49817119
You meant Stormlight Archives, bro. Brandon Sanderson's Stormlight Archives.
>>49822468
Yeah, I didn't like the resolution of the first two Gentleman Bastards books, myself. Both times, the villain had Locke in a really tight spot, and you were wondering how he could possibly get out of it, when he tries his last, desperate gambit...going to a third party opposed to the villain, who happened to have all the resources needed to stop them, and talking those people into beating the villain for him. And also they take less convincing than literally anyone he has spoken to for the entirety of the book. Seriously, it takes him more effort to bribe a chef to loan him his clothes than it does to convince anyone "let's you and him fight". I was so happy when the third book didn't end that way.

Also, I don't think his collapse into alcoholism seemed really organic to his character, the sequence felt forced to me. As though Lynch really felt he had to do something major to show he was grieving his friends, and that was the best he could come up with.

>>49840876
I'd also like to believe that, but I highly doubt that we will see a xmas release. I think it's safe to assume that it will be out in may. Earliest in march

>>49837780
Maybe you should look through this thread, actually read some books not at a middle school reading level, and realize that any fondness for the Dresden series is simply a mix of nostalgia and limited exposure to decent books?

It's a series that hasn't aged well, and it didn't even start good,

>>49819652
The only thing I didn't like about the First Law series was Abercrombie's constant observations, either in a character's internal monologue or in the narration, that "if this was one of those storybooks, then X, Y, and Z would happen...but this is not one of those storybooks!" Goddamn but that was annoying. It's like, I get it, Joe Abercrombie, you're writing a deconstruction of the traditional high fantasy epic. You don't have to actually pause and note that you're averting a trope. It's writing down to the reader, is what it is.
>>49820604
Lightbringer was nowhere near as edgy as the same author's Night Angel series was, though. I thought that his toning the grimdark down was a vast improvement. It's got it's dark patches, but at least not every character spent their childhood homeless or being raped daily and the bad guys aren't an evil empire literally powered by rape, cannibalism, and domestic violence.

>>49840876
>>49841022
yeah me too.
iirc skin game got release in may 2014 so i dont think we ll see peacetalk this year.
even thou i really wish we could.

>>49840620
This thread reads like it's straight out of SuperWhoLock. Dresden fans are Tumblr-tier.

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>>49841037
Dresden Files reeks of a man who is a fan of Joss Whedon and Supernatural.

>>49841059
Fuck you! Dresden is the best fantasy kitchen sink there is, and the magic is as close to real world magic as it can be. It also gives cool interpretations to some classical deities. And Michael is the best paladin ever

>>49841037
Maybe you stop being autistic and realize that different people have different tastes.

>>49837780
The depressing part is that I recognise this guy.

Every time Dresden is mentioned, he turns up and starts samefagging at random intervals throughout the thread until he gets a response, briefly continues when he does, then goes back to samefagging.

What's worse is that he STILL doesn't know what a deus ex machina is.

>>49841085
Never liked Whedons work, but i do have a soft spot for supernatural, even if it went to shit many years ago.

>>49841120
Do you honestly think only one person doesn't like "baby's first fantasy soap opera"?

>>49841149
I think only one person is autistic enough to samefag constantly in the exact same style and with the exact same posts for around 3 years.
At least I hope there is.

>>49826963
Also there's really no character development. Every character is introduced with their trademark conflict, and then they brood and agonize over it for fucking ever, or until they get killed off.

>>49841149
The only people I've met that don't like Dresden are SJWs, and that's only because Harry is a chauvinist

>>49841107
"Taste" apparently is this strange thing that becomes your excuse for being able to look past bad writing without saying anything.

It's no secret that Butcher isn't all that smart and the research he does is browsing past wikipedia pages, and that his writing style has never matured past collegiate fan fiction.

You can go ahead and like it all you want, but recommending that series is really just showing off how little you've actually read. It would hardly be in even a casual reader's top 10, let alone top 100 of series to recommend.

>>49841183
You would do yourself a favor by stepping outside of your mother's basement and meeting some more people.

Also, shame on you for trying to say anyone with good taste in books is an SJW boogeyman, like there's not a thousand criticisms to lay against the series. Harry being a chauvinist doesn't even register compared to the fact that he's an unlikable self-insert who, like just about every character in those series, sounds like they're constantly trying to impress you with something.

>>49841190
I've probably read more than you have, I'm just not autistic enough to have "good" taste.

>>49841183
Ignore it, m8.
There will be a few random replies with absolutely nothing substantive, usually about prose and characters, that are never expanded upon, then he'll go back to lurking before trying it again.
People have tried many times to discuss it and get him to expand in order to debate it, but he does nothing but shitfling and change subject when any attempt to pin down a point crops up.

It truly is sad that he's been doing it for years without any change, even moreso than the fact that I recognise it as such.

>>49836449
Hey, Kingkiller was good. I mean except for the parts that were absolutely goddamn horrible. Denna, the Mary Sue-ass Sex Ninjas, that whole sequence where Kvothe was a homeless urchin struggling to survive on the street despite the fact that he already knew the 90 Sympathetic bindings (or 140, two passages don't agree) which made him a completely functional wizard, and just the three bindings we're explicitly shown him doing should have solved all this problems. I mean the whole episode just relies on him being so traumatized he just forgot he has magic-ass superpowers, and also his bullshit Zen mental conditioning that's supposed to let him think with perfect logic even through distractions like being so traumatized.

But the good parts outweigh the bad, and it was a really engrossing read.

>>49826963
>>49841182
I don't know if you're being sarcastic or not.
One of the major issues with ASoIaF is that the major characters go through ridiculous arcs, with most of them transforming radically to the point of bending or breaking the suspension of disbelief.

And, while you can fault the books for a lot of things, the prose is fantastic. It's actually a bit of a shame that George has become a bitter, fat, old man with deep anger issues, because his early prose was great and some of his stories weren't quite so heavy-handed with the daytime television antics. His prose has matured, and it's hard for critics to not call him a great author on account of that alone, but his ASoIaF series leaves much to be desired since the first book started with a promise that each subsequent book seems intent on destroying, like George has a bone to pick with fantasy.

Has anyone read the iron Druid series?

I've heard conflicting reports about it.
Some people say is a fun urban fantasy ride, and others say is full of lolrandum and BBT tier reference humour.
I don't mind a reference if done right, like how it's used to show Dresden becoming increasingly out of touch with normal people, or a reference that you get or it goes over your head seamlessly, but shoehorned references in lieu of jokes pisses me off

>>49841269
Nice prediction, but if you want to argue substance, the only thing that needs be asked is "What are the problems with Storm Front"?

It's a great question, because even Dresden fans love to line up to complain about all the issues in that book, but the sad thing is that the majority of those same complaints are just repeated throughout the series, except they are joined with new problems like Harry's power creep.

>>49840522
I've just downloaded the anthology with the latest short in it (Jury Duty), opens with him moving shit into Molly's

>>49841345
I'm on book 4 right now. It's okay.

>>49841326
Jon Snow agonizes over being a bastard. He continues to agonize over being a bastard until he dies. Jaime agonizes over not keeping his oath to the king he kills; he will continue to agonize over it until he dies. Tyrion agonizes over being a dwarf; will until he dies. Rinse and repeat with every fucking character's main issue, they never get over anything or grow in any way. Brood brood brood, then die.

>And, while you can fault the books for a lot of things, the prose is fantastic.

You mean prose like
>She was sopping wet when he entered her. “Damn you,” she said. “Damn you damn you damn you.” He sucked her nipples till she cried out half in pain and half in pleasure. Her cunt became the world.

Prose like that, that sounds like a virgin spinster who only knew of sex from Harlequin romance novels tried to author a letter to Penthouse? Or shit like

>"The three men were erect. The sight of their arousal was arousing"

That's *great* prose, then?

>>49841353
Storm front and Fool moon are bad, but to judge the entire series on something that was a lit course assignment is not okay.
And with the power creep, Dresden is still 100% human with all the limitations there are, yet the stakes just keep getting higher. He will probably have to invoke a darkhallow to keep up.

>>49841361
Thanks for the info

>>49841386
Nice lines out of context.
And, your understanding of what "agonizes" means seems rather limited.

None of those characters seem particularly impeded by those shames and regrets. You really have an extremely limited ability of reading comprehension if you think Jon even laments his bastardship or that Tyrion's agonies are about him being a dwarf.

It's like, it's like you're genuinely stupid, and I have no nicer way of saying that.

>>49841404
>Storm front and Fool moon are bad, but to judge the entire series on something that was a lit course assignment is not okay.

It's fair to judge them if they share the same major issues, and they do.
Also, only the first would be allowed the lit course assignment excuse, if we were all doing our best to excuse shoddy writing like you are.

>>49841404
See, anon?
Nothing substantive in his reply to you, just reaffirming without bringing anything else.
I wish I could use my powers for gambling, but sadly my limits are predicting what autistic people on Assyrian rug weaving exchanges will say.

>>49841535
Please, your attempts to discredit anyone who disagrees with you and your attempts to defend your young adult series are pretty pathetic.

What would constitute a substantive criticism in your eyes? I don't think there's anything that you would be willing to accept about your precious series.

>>49841459
>Nice lines out of context.
They're bad lines in context. In any context. There is no context where "her cunt became the world" sounds awesome. That is Anne Bishop's "Dark Jewels", Storm Constantine's "Wraeththu" levels of shittiness and it's pretty par for the course as far as Martin's prose goes.

Look, how about you post a single Martin quote you consider particularly moving. Any one, anything that inspires pathos or frisson or even just flows particularly well. I could throw out Zelazny or Cook or Pratchett quotes all day, give me one single line from ASoIaF you think is gold.

>And, your understanding of what "agonizes" means seems rather limited.
I understand it's constantly rehashed in their dialogue, and their internal monologues in their viewpoint chapters, over and over again, ad infinitum. Christ, next you're going to tell me Batman doesn't brood over the fact that HIS PARENTS ARE DEEAADDDD! Get out of here with that bullshit.

No, seriously, take that bullshit out of here. Bundle it up, take it away from here, take it to Guano-Con, the fertilizer industry's foremost expo. Sell it there, I hope you make a fucking packet, I just know I'm not buying you're bullshit.

>It's like, it's like you're genuinely stupid, and I have no nicer way of saying that.
And it's like you're really heavily invested in an author who cannot into character progression and you're too insecure to admit that.

>>49841479
I get it, you studied lit and were rejected by publishers and now you are bitter, unemployed, and angry. That does not give you an excuse to bash other peoples fun. Wish I could decapitate you with a dull axe, but we live in a civilized world.

>>49841637
Thank you for this post.
I was wondering exactly what kind of person would like the Dresden series, and it's apparently some who would have to be lacking both a sense of intelligence and humor.

I almost wish I cared enough about you and your baby series, because I would screencap your comment as an example of how stupid someone has to be to enjoy such an awful series.

>>49841594
>Zelazny or Cook or Pratchett

Those are unfair. Cook, not so much, but Zelazny and Pratchett are never fair to compare against mortal authors.


And, I don't even like GRRM. But, I respect his prose, because it's good prose. You can cherrypick lines here and there if you want, but he can craft some pretty fantastic scenes, ranging from the crown of gold to the sounding of the horn.

I m amazed noone mentionned the sword of truth from goodkind

the slaughtering of pacifist, rape pit, the chicken of doom and so many other great stories.

This is some /lit/ tier shitposting, i thought you were better than this /tg/.

>>49841719
We'll probably because it's shit

>>49841345

The main character is a raging Mary Sue and the dog annoys me, but it does a few interesting things with modern fantasy.

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>>49821049
/got general/ on /tv/ actually discusses the books when they're not talking about waifus. Or at least they did three seasons ago, when I abandoned that entire board.

>>49821125
>there are like three kids named Khaleesi in the real world now. That's not even a character's name, it's one of her titles

>>49841761
Eh, you mention Butcher or Martin and you'll get a few dedicated people who shit on them guaranteed to turn up, happens like clockwork.

>>49841761
It's a single guy with Carnac tier persistence, but none of his ability to cite sources of expand upon his points.
He might annoy the tits off me, but Carnac at least can argue his corner without resorting to vague shitposting.

>>49841780
Eh, Princess is a somewhat valid name - sure, it suggests a lot about the person, but it is used as a name, why shouldn't a fantasy version - which arguably sounds more name-like - also not be a name?

>>49841800
You seem pretty deep into your whole Dresden defense. Are you Butcher?
Wait, no, even Butcher wouldn't be stupid enough to actually try to argue that his series is above criticism and ridicule.

Are you one of Butcher's spurned but still hopeful gay lovers?

>>49814465
So excited for the new book November?

>>49841770
come on it s pretty funny when you think about it... i mean i would be infuriated to read that kind of shit if i was expecting a great story, but if you read it as a testimony of the danger of meth on the human psyche it s pretty good.

This Dresden argument would make a lot more sense if someone bothered to spell out what the critiques about Dresden actually are. I don't know the series so I'm just lost.

>>49841934
SOT is a great GM guide of how not to shove your personal beliefs in places they don't belong

>>49842148
They're basically modern day pulp novels. Nothing top notch, but a good light read, at least in the beginning.

>>49836460
Weber's stuff is the weakest, imo, but the Boloverse is 10/10.

>>49842283
I just started Road to Damascus. Is it as cringe-worthy as I've heard with all the political tracts?

>>49842148
It's an urban fantasy, originally noir tinted, that steadily got more into the fantasy and left the detective part behind.

Had a shoddy start due to issues with characterisation and prose (the female lead cop and MC suffer particularly from this; she's inadvertently a massive bitch and he's a doormat).
It picked up around book 3 as he got his characters under control, ironed out the inadvertent flaws and wrote them in as genuine character traits.
It's mot high art, but it's a fun and creative enough ride, and has some fairly subtle character writing coming in via use of the first person lens, which is mainly showcased when he writes from other PoVs in the short stories.
Main example cited is that the less the MC gets laid, the more descriptive he is about women's bodies.

>>49842328
These are just vague praise, and are half lies.

>>49841129
I liked what I saw of Supernatural but I followed the common advice to stop at S5 and I haven't regretted it yet. I stuck through Dexter to the end so I know that sticking around hoping for a show to return to form is rarely worth it.

>>49842328
i loved the story from Thomas perspective where at the end he does some dramatic sorcerer sacrifying a virgin pose just before harry enters the room after he dealt with the real threat of the hidden war.

Also harry playing pnprpg with some former nerds that grew up is a pretty great message of hope for this board.

>>49841227
I think you just hit a nail on the head. Like in Ghost Story when the climax is literally Molly cosplaying as Star Trek characters in a psychic battle. Butcher trying to score that geek cred.

Or how about in the latest book when Harry's all about parkour? How in the hell does he even know about parkour? I thought his magic messed with technology past the early 50s.

>>49842504
>Or how about in the latest book when Harry's all about parkour? How in the hell does he even know about parkour? I thought his magic messed with technology past the early 50s.

Reading and movies, probably.

>>49842504
>I thought his magic messed with technology past the early 50s.
The effect isn't always instantaneous, and sometimes it can go on and on and on, like whe he was driving Georgias car.

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>>49814465

Are the Anne Rice vampyr books any good, gentlemen?

>>49842575
meh tier.
the first 2 ones are okish if you are into emo vampire then it just turn to absolut trash.

>>49842328
>and creative enough

I honestly think his version of everything from fantasy is my least favorite version. I hate his vampires, hate his fairies, hate his werewolves, I have a hard time finding anything of his that isn't cheapened or worsened through his inexpert and single-minded modifications.

It keeps going from there. His necromancy is a joke, his entire magic system is easily one of the worst designed I've encountered in fiction (it's basically functions under a fluid system of "what the plot needs"), and it seems like anything he does that isn't purely derivative is a step in the worst direction.

>>49842534
Also, he has friends.

It's easy to forget that the series takes place over ten--ish years, and his friends could've just told him about it sometime during that.

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>>>> Dresden

Practically anti-Dresden.

>>49842678
> Werewolves
Literally angry people who REE.

> Muh conservation of mass
> I'm gonna ride on a reanimated Sue lolol

>>49842504
I personally thought it was a sign of his becoming more and more distanced from normal people. He reminded me of someone over here memespouting to try and fit in, and as a result making it abundantly clear that they don't.
Could be wrong though.

Definitely agree with Ghost Story, that one was mediocre all the way. Molly never really came across as the sci fi type outside of Harry's influence, and if it was banking on that then it would be a Star Wars reference

Dresden's cool. Mistborn's neat. Kingkiller is good if you don't mind waiting a zillion years for the last book and the sue protagonist. Needs more love; Orphans, Fugitives, and Titans of Chaos by John C Wright. Greek gods and shit plus Sci Fi shit. Also good is the Princes of Amber series. Make it past the first chapter of "oh lols my amnesia" and it's a wild ride.

>>49842829
He likes to do "all myths are true" shit, which is why we have three versions of werewolves. Berserkers based on the origins of lycanthropy, mages who turn into wolves to cover the classic myth, and giant invincible monsters to cover the pop culture version. Kind of like vampires - White Court are Anne Rice Succubi, Red Court are Nosferatu Chupacabra, and Black Court are Dracula.

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>>49842829
>> I'm gonna ride on a reanimated Sue lolol
Yeah, Dresden runs on rule of cool. Saying this as a negative point is like expecting a Jackie Chan film to not feature using tables and chairs as weapons.

>>49842940
And the jade court ar those chinese ki vampires. And there are also 3 more unnamed courts that have next to no power

>>49842940
>I can't settle on ruining one type of vampire
>I want to ruin ALL of them

His name's no misnomer, that Butcher fellow.

>>49841386
Cherrypicking two lines out of the entirety of ASoIaF is a great way to make me throw your argument out the window. You need to make a more general argument against the prose itself when dealing with a series of that size.

You could make that same argument about pretty much any prolific author ever to prove them a bad author. Try again.

>>49842960
>rule of cool

That's a weird way of saying "It's stupid, but since I can't justify it, allow me to put my fingers in my ears."

It also only works when it's actually cool. Following a guy in a polka suit is just stupid, and I hope you're not actually going to try and argue otherwise.

>>49843067
>implying vamps were ever good
The only good vampire is a dead vampire.
And the only good modern artistic interpretation of vampires is Alucard from Hellsing

>>49843091
Polka will never die!

>>49843091
Did you miss the part where about riding a zombie dinosaur against a zombie army? Because that's the cool part.

>inb4 'cool'

>>49843091
No, it's saying "it's stupid, but it's entertainingly stupid, so I'll give it a pass." Riding a zombie tyrannosaur against an army of human zombies is entertainingly stupid.

Meanwhile, the less entertaining stupidity is how people keep harping on it. As someone who likes the Dresden Files unironically, it comes off like one of those guys who told one good joke and keeps reminding people of it years after it's not funny.

>>49843091
>following a guy in a polka suit
Stupid
>following a Jewish Manlet in a polka suit while riding a zombie dinosaur to fight necromantic hordes
Cool

Now you know the difference.
A difference I'd like to know is if you actually read the books to know you're conveniently missing bits out to suit your argument, or if you haven't actually read them.

>>49843130
Did you miss the part where they're animating a display replica, which was based off of a stone replacement of bone, which would make it more of some bizarre form of geomancy/puppetry rather than necromancy?

And, are you forgetting the polka? Hard to be SUPERCOOLBADASS when there's polka music playing.

>>49843286
>following a Jewish Manlet in a polka suit while riding a zombie dinosaur to fight necromantic hordes

Thank you for helping convince everyone just how stupid it was.

>>49843318
Much like the aforementioned Jewish Manlet, I'm afraid you're in the minority.

>>49843346
We're not in middle school. You really can't claim a majority would think that's anything other than one of the dumbest string of words ever uttered.

I hope you're just joking at this point, but really, it's becoming unsightly.

>>49842813
>That one short story that starts with Dresden questioning DnD logic and fireball physics with the Wolfpack
>>49817701
Some books I forgot to mention.
I recall reading some Walter Moers as a kid, most likely Rumo.
I really tried to like Eragon, I really did. The series had potential, but I lost interest on the third ad dropped it. Too much elf fanwanking, for starters.
One series that had great potential at start, but started going downhill after the fourth book was Darren Shan. I want to forget the series for several reasons. Crepsley was the only character that kept me reading.

>>49843307
>SUPERCOOLBADASS when there's polka music playing
I think that's supposed to be the point. As the anon above said, it's entertainingly stupid, so let's dial it up to ridiculous because we're riding a goddamn dinosaur against a zombie army through the streets of Chicago to stop necromancers.

It's made to be fun, not Berserk-esque GRIMDARK BADASS

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>>49843346

>>49843406
No apology needed. Eragon was fucking terrible garbage.

>>49843360
You can when everyone else is vocally disagreeing with you :^)

It's less "/tg/" and more "/hwg/", but the Sharpe series has been bretty gud so far (publishing order being the way to go).
It's not exactly Hemingway, but they've got a lot going for them, especially if you're into the Napoleonic period.

>>49843413
>it's entertainingly stupid

No, it's just stupid.

Butcher is a hack, so his thought process goes "Oh fuck, this is super masturbatory for my self insert, how do I dodge those accusations? Let's throw in a dash of lame. What's lame? Oh, I know, if there's a fag playing polka, then my fans won't be able to bust a nut imagining heavy metal music playing."

You can try to defend it, but at the end of the day, you're just trying to say "fun" and "entertaining" like those mean anything when you're trying to defend a series that thinks that the best way to curb something that's supposed to be over-the-top awesome is to add polka music.

You've basically made "fun" and "entertaining" meaningless through your misuse of those words.
Here's a tip. They're not synonyms for stupid.

>>49843612
>REEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>49843612
What's the matter, your book too "deep" to get published?

"Villains by Necessity" is about an evil adventuring party.

There really does need to be a screencap summarizing how Dresden discussions usually go

>>49843803
>>49842813

>>49843612

Man, if I could get a hateboner going as hard as yours, I bet I'd get all the ladies

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>>49820599
>All of these arguments posted at least 10 hours after my original post
>Jesus Christ

As I said, the thing with Victor Sells mass producing potions is just one example of a pattern (And Butcher only rationalized why Harry couldn't do the same thing as Victor after several books). Butcher puts shit into one book and you never see it again. The silver belt buckle Harry carved gave him a massive boost in survivability and would've been worth re-enchanting if he'd needed to do so. Harry explains why he can't use the sunlight handkerchief after four books of the reader wondering why it's not being used, and it's clearly another case where Butcher belatedly realized he had created a plot hole. Harry outright states that some people make a living by using their magic at casinos to win big, but he never does it himself and never explains why.

Perhaps the biggest problem is that Jim Butcher never has and never will know exactly where the plot is going. He has no specifics in mind. He's been dropping HOLY SHIT SO SPOOKY hints about the Outsiders coming to wage a war on reality or some shit for most of the series and it still hasn't happened. Based on what Wikipedia is telling me it's taken fourteen books for Nemesis to actually be identified. The first three books of the Dune series resolve more plot lines than the fifteen Butcher has churned out.

And then there's the fact that Harry is just a fucking idiot who serves mostly as a vehicle to move other characters in and out of the plot. He's not proactive and things mostly happen to him, he doesn't make things happen.

>>49843803
They probably should just go and stay on /lit/.

It's funny, because very few people play the Dresden Files game, because you'd first have to like the series, and then you'd have to enjoy the Fate system. That's why the Dresden Files game threads usually die rather quickly, because the series, despite being about a modern day wizard and you'd think that would make for a good foundation, is terrible for a roleplaying game because the entire world revolves around the main character and enabling him to get from one plot point to the next.

>>49843858
>He's not proactive and things mostly happen to him, he doesn't make things happen.

Well...

He makes things happen to things that happen to him.

But you do have a point in which my main gripe with his books is "even though it's been almost three years since my last book, all that I've been doing was playing with myself for six months until SHIT HITS THE FAN for three days, AND SO I RUN AROUND A LOT and then I play with myself for six months until SHIT HITS THE FAN FOR THREE DAYS again."


But all this "muh plot holes that only get resolved fifteen books later" is a meh complaint at best. It's you admiting they do get resolved in the long term, and if you accept "long term" is the schedule for which you are reading these books, then you don't really have an argument.

>>49843971
>is a meh complaint at best
>series has more plot holes than a fairy tail

Is there a badge for the Dresden Defense force?

>>49843858
Weird that you didn't rely to any of them directly.
Especially the ones that go over the points you just raised

>>49844010

Gee budy, I sure wasn't ready for *that* comeback

I thought tg was mostly free of shitposters, but I guess I've just been overly fortunate with the threads I frequent.

>>49843858
>Actual specific criticism of the Dresden Files

Never thought I'd see it.

I'll agree with Jim having never plotted anything out, considering it never started with an overarching plot in the first place and Victor Sells was only shoehorned in later as a part of the big conspiracy.

I'll argue with you over Harry not making things happen, considering he seems like a somewhat regular guy who DOESN'T want to get entangled in life-threatening situations and would prefer things just be quiet and his friends not die.

Like, all the books take place over three or so days out of a year. It's pretty clear that the events of the books are the irregular things in Harry's daily routine. And he does slowly improve over time, like with the better shield spell, getting regular exercise and improving his spellcasting. I just think it was mentioned that improving magic takes a fucking long time to do, like how even Molly doesn't really branch out from psychomancy because it's the only thing she's naturally talented at, and learning other magic is plain hard for her.

>>49844035
I'd argue that you are the shitposter, simply because you're doing your dishonest best to defend a series regardless of what criticisms are levied against it.

You sound like you honestly can't imagine any problems with it, and that puts you in a different plane of discussion, one where you are not here to have a conversation, but are instead here to advertise your tastes and demand that people not reject them.

>>49844054
There's already been tons of criticisms against the series.

What is wrong with Dresden fans? Are they really so delusional as this?

>>49844072
>you're doing your dishonest best to defend a series regardless of what criticisms are levied against it.

I don't know what is most absurd, this frothing at the mouth of dishonesty, or the implication that I'm doing my best

Even if we do put aside that the first half of my post was me giving you some sort of ground, that was my only post on the subject.

We're not the same guy, benius.

>>49843653
Maybe they took the same classes and anon went to shit or something. Would explain a lot.

>>49843971
>But all this "muh plot holes that only get resolved fifteen books later" is a meh complaint at best. It's you admiting they do get resolved in the long term, and if you accept "long term" is the schedule for which you are reading these books, then you don't really have an argument.
I contend that rationalizing a plot hole after the fact, in the next book or later, is bad writing. I do not understand how anyone else would think otherwise. And I stopped reading the series, remember? I don't do serial series unless they have pacing and resolution, which the Dresden Files don't. The series is entertaining, I'm not saying it isn't good, but it definitely isn't worth my time.

>>49844012
Too many replies to read all of them.

>>49844072

anon, eat a snickers

>>49841637
Christ, that's a pretty vicious response to someone not liking some books. Get some fucking perspective.

>>49844130

I'd contend everything is a plot hole until it gets rationalized, and then it becomes a plot hook.

But it's entirely fair for you to judge your enjoyment of the experience based on what you took out of it.

You just also need to acknowledge the content of the people telling you that on the whole that experience becomes different. Solving those plot holes four books later might feel like bad writing for you, but once you're fifteen books in, four seems like quite adequate timing.

>>49843858
>but he never does it himself and never explains why
Harry not using magic to improve his financial situation always bugged me. He wouldn't even need to do anything illegal (a la John Constantine), he could just put on the best motherfucking magic shows.

>>49844192

He does use magic to improve his financial situation. It's what his entire job in the yellow pages was all about.

>he could just put on the best motherfucking magic shows.

His dad was a magician. It probably triggers him.

>>49844054
>considering he seems like a somewhat regular guy who DOESN'T want to get entangled in life-threatening situations and would prefer things just be quiet and his friends not die.

He certainly is exactly that, but I was expecting him to man up and get involved in shit he'd rather leave alone during or after the events of Dead Beat. Not taking an active role in the Wizard-Vampire war, not trying to figure out a way to get his debt to Mab cleared, and not neutralizing all the enemies he's made means he's practically guaranteed to die horribly. It strains credulity, big time, that he wouldn't try to do something about all of this shit that's probably going to get him and the people he cares about killed.

>>49844260
I feel like that's just a matter of taste. Some people appreciate characters who remain committed to living 'normal' lives in the face of unusual circumstances, others want characters who actively engage with their new situation. I don't think either one is wrong or right.

>>49814465
Fafherd and the grey mouser
Conan

>>49844309
I don't think you understand what stretching credulity means.

Wanting a normal life? Reasonable.
Ignoring what's going around you when it's almost certainly life threatening?

>>49844182
Dude, the series has so many plot holes Butcher can't or won't even bother spackling all of them. As I pointed out, there's shit Butcher doesn't even address. The belt buckle vanishes, Harry never makes bank via roulette or shooting craps, and he doesn't use the Faerie murder squad in the myriad of situations they'd be useful in.

>>49842323
Road To Damascus is another of the really weak ones. Expect a bit of political strawmanning, as Weber is prone to doing.

Personally, I'd recommend starting with Laumers original work, and moving from there.

>>49844192
>he could just put on the best motherfucking magic shows.
Considering the "no cameras or modern technology in the vicinity" thing, that probably wouldn't bring much more money than the PI gig did. And later he got hired as a warder, which put him on a pretty secure footing, financially. He also SPENDS quite a bit of money on things like potion ingredients, depleted uranium and other stuff he uses on the ghost dust, weekly pizza deliveries for the fairies, etc.

>>49844260
His role in the Wizard-Vampire War is actually just being the Warden of Chicago, like how Ramirez is the Warden of California. It's just mostly Harry's job to deal with the bullshit of Chicago, and he actually does go out and help train the younger wizards, like in the flashback to the desert camp where he defended them from ghouls. And I think the White Council just doesn't trust him because he's always been a sort of rebel to them, so they just give him a hands-off job.

As for the debt, I think Harry just doesn't want to deal with tricky fae bullshit, and most of his enemies are just very good at hiding so he can't track them down without great time and effort.

>>49844357
Do you know what a plot hole is?
A plot hole is something which simply cannot happen due to conflicting narrative statements.
For example, a character outright being stated as in Antarctica that second showing up the next minute in Norway with no explanation is a plot hole.
A magazine with 8 rounds holding 9 at a critical moment is a plot hole.

A plot hole is NOT a character making an unreasonable decision, be it for in character reasons or not.
The belt buckle vanishing with no explanation is certainly a case of bad writing, but the rest can be easily rationalised by the fact he's not an asshole who likes abusing the fairies trust and/or getting them into situations that could easily get them killed, or using his powers to steal money from gamblers who have no hope of winning against him

>>49845402
I think I've got a clear sense of the kind of person you are now, and the manner and methods you plan on defending the series for the rest of this discussion.

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>>49845599
Good, let the hate flow through you.

Sperg out with all of your anger, and your journey to Autism will be complete.

>>49845710
I wish you wouldn't try to meme past people rolling their eyes at you. It just ends up inducing another roll of the eyes.

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>>49845738
And I wish we didn't have people on /tg/ throwing autistic bitchfits for around 8 hours because people didn't take their opinions as gospel, but we can't have everything, anon.

>>49845789
That was something like my fourth post in this thread.

Maybe you need to stop autistically defending a series that's really hard to defend, thanks to the shoddy writing. It's like you're trying to draw up water from a well with a wicker basket.

It's a bad series you like. No need to pretend it's a good series or that it's particularly well written.

My memory on the series is a bit jumbled, but here are some of my thoughts.
>Not taking an active role in the Wizard-Vampire war
At the start of Summer Knight, it becomes apparent that Harry blames himself for letting Susan turn into a vampire and he was looking for a cure like obsessed. Harry prioritized the cure over the War.
After getting over his complex, Harry did get a little more involved with the War, but either refused or wasn't allowed to "leave his post" at the city.
>not trying to figure out a way to get his debt to Mab cleared
Honestly, Harry made it clear from the very beginning that he doesn't want to have anything to do with the fae. Harry was already avoiding his fairy godmother when he was in debt to her, and had all the more reason to avoid Mab now that she held the contract
>not neutralizing all the enemies he's made means he's practically guaranteed to die horribly.
I'll grant you that, but when your enemies consist of Daenerians, old fae gods and almost all of the vampires in the world, you've got a long hitlist.
>It strains credulity, big time, that he wouldn't try to do something about all of this shit that's probably going to get him and the people he cares about killed.
I think that the point of Harry's character is that he's constantly overextending and overcomitting. He worries about every little thing, but despite knowing he can't be everywhere at the same time, he stubbornly tries to do everything at the same time, often ending up with less than acceptable results.
This can be seen when Harry starts building a model of the entire Chigago, so he can see everywhere when needed.
He also helped in founding the Paranetters, which got some load off his back and helped him with gaining more info than before.

I admit the series has its flaws, but I still enjoy reading it.
Pardon my bad english.

>>49845839
>not trying to figure out a way to get his debt to Mab cleared

...but, I mean, he did exactly that. We're talking about asking for her help in Changes, right? Right in that very book he tries to get it cleared, the only way he could think of, though we don't learn how until the next one, however said next book also goes into detail showcasing how and why his effort didn't work.

By the time Cold Days comes out, Harry has accepted that there's no real way to get out of it.

>>49844357
>As I pointed out, there's shit Butcher doesn't even address

Pray tell, such as what. reading up a shitstorm doesnt seem quite apetising

>The belt buckle vanishes,

I dont care
Hadnt even thought of the buckle until you mentioned it. Some stuff falls out of use for reasons such as mentioned, others, meh. He already gets the belt buckle package from the Winter Knight mantle

> Harry never makes bank via roulette or shooting craps,
I hardly see how this is gamebreaking. Besides, theres probably white court vampires looking out for wizards who gets clever ideas about their kine farms

>and he doesn't use the Faerie murder squad in the myriad of situations they'd be useful in.

Because he respects and values their lives, and wouldnt dare risk them in these situations? I dont know man, this one doesnt feel like a valid complaint

>>49845949
Oh shoot, yeah.
Let's recap.
>Mab has Harry in debt
>In Summer Knight, he makes him do one of the three favors needed to repay the debt
>Later offers an alternative -becoming the Winter Knight to erase the debt
>In Changes, the crippled Harry becomes the Winter Knight and not wanting to lose his humanity, he plans for his suicide
>Mab didn't let him off that easy
Yeah, you're right about that, I suppose.
How the hell did I forget about him being the Knight, holy shit.

To be honest, I'd like to be the Winter knight. The pros outweigh the cons.

>>49819834
I've heard complaints this is SJW-tier. Does it also have tons stronk women or were they just butthurt about gays?

>>49845066
>so they just give him a hands-off job.
Yeah, you're actually affirming my point here. They gave him patrol duty and he's not seeking out his own objectives, which is stupid because patrol duty only gets harder over time when all you do is wait and react to criminals instead of balancing offense with defense. Ask a cop.

>As for the debt, I think Harry just doesn't want to deal with tricky fae bullshit, and most of his enemies are just very good at hiding so he can't track them down without great time and effort.
Your entire argument here boils down to, 'Bringing leverage and/or violence to bear on the Fae and his list of adversaries is outside his natural skillset so it doesn't make sense for him to attempt to preserve his own ass or the asses of his friends'. I'm not a sprinter but I promise you I'll give 100% if a bear starts chasing me in the woods. Survival instinct. It's important. And he knows his friends are in danger just for being his friends, so that's extra motivation. Plus, HE'S A DETECTIVE. Tracking shit down is literally his job and thaumaturgy is supposed to be his greatest magical skill.

>>49845402
Okay, I misspoke when I called them plot holes.
>The belt buckle vanishing with no explanation is certainly a case of bad writing
There we go.
>using his powers to steal money from gamblers who have no hope of winning against him
In the two examples I actually used, craps and roulette, you don't play against other gamblers, you play against the house.

>>49845402
>he's not an asshole who likes abusing the fairies trust and/or getting them into situations that could easily get them killed
Okay, just let me pull out another example for you: It's stated that you can sustain a lot of enchantments and whatnot within the threshold of a home, although you won't be able to take them outside and use twenty of them because you yourself don't supply that much ambient magical energy. Why doesn't Harry have ten or so general purpose potions sitting around for emergencies? Running faster would have been useful in many encounters in every book. Jumping higher, improved hearing, all manner of buffs could've been on reserve.

>>49846237
>Okay, I misspoke when I called them plot holes.

No, you were right. Those are plot holes.

>>49846168
Until you mess up and get slowly tortured to death in a variety of interesting ways

>>49846274
I'm pretty sure potions specifically have been stated to spoil quickly.

>>49845839
>Harry prioritized the cure over the War.
That is true, and relevant only for the portion of the story that occurred within. He gets over it eventually and you guys are trying to prop his week long training camp for the newbie wizards as being sufficient to counteract years of passiveness.
>but either refused or wasn't allowed to "leave his post" at the city.
>refused
Still affirming my point that he's too passive.
>wasn't allowed
Source needed.
>Honestly, Harry made it clear from the very beginning that he doesn't want to have anything to do with the fae. Harry was already avoiding his fairy godmother when he was in debt to her, and had all the more reason to avoid Mab now that she held the contract
And that's fucking insane reasoning because Harry knows there are fates worse than death, a number of which he's personally witnessed.
>I'll grant you that, but when your enemies consist of Daenerians, old fae gods and almost all of the vampires in the world, you've got a long hitlist.
I'm not even trying to say he should kill Mab necessarily, just find a way to break her hold. And Harry has more than demonstrated that he can handle pretty much everything other than Mab in a fight if he's prepared. Going on the offensive gives him that edge.
>I think that the point of Harry's character is that he's constantly overextending and overcomitting.
This is a vague argument with no substance to back it up. Harry spends six to eighteen months between each book being a reactive retard and then has to scramble when shit inevitably blows up, due to him being reactive.

>>49846626
>That is true, and relevant only for the portion of the story that occurred within. He gets over it eventually and you guys are trying to prop his week long training camp for the newbie wizards as being sufficient to counteract years of passiveness.

Only if you assume that he spends all the time not explicitly mentioned in the books sitting on his couch. I doubt the council would pay him a salary for that.

>>49846168
>The pros outweigh the cons.

You say that, but then you get a shotgun to the mouth as training

>>49846430
Then how did Victor Sells stockpile them?

>>49846049
Dude, look at what you just typed out. Mab extorted two favors out of him and then he crawled to her for the mantle and its power, the way she always knew he would, because he's a passive, reactive dumbass and a magnet for catastrophe. Just As Planned.

>>49846753
>Then how did Victor Sells stockpile them?

Stockpile for how long?

>>49846686
I'm not saying he's sitting on his couch, I'm saying he's spending the breaks between novels reacting to the destruction wrought by the assholes around him instead of hunting the assholes down. He could be doing some of each.

>>49846753
>and then he crawled to her for the mantle and its power, the way she always knew he would, because he's a passive, reactive dumbass and a magnet for catastrophe
His alternatives were to let a fallen angel possess him, or perform the Darkhallow. Taking up the Mantle of the Winter Knight was the least harmful option.

>>49846786
I would need a copy of Storm Front to answer that question and it's been a long time since and sold it to Books Revisited for store credit.

>>49817609
Everything by Zelazny is fucking awesome

>>49842907
Zelazny practically invented amnesia character trope and Amber chronicles are phenomenal

>>49846810
Another example of shitty fucking writing. Why can't Harry get power through another means? Through Ivy or Uriel or a ritual he cooks up himself because he's one of the very, very few wizards who have a decent grasp on modern science, technology and culture? Why can't he harness the power of humanity for God's sake? Literally! Draw a ritual circle around the grounds of a music festival and suck up all the energy produced by the college students rolling tits on acid and MDMA and use that for something. There are so few sources of power for Harry to tap because he's making fuckall effort to identify them! He has to stumble across Demon Reach to find anything he can call his own and it's a goddamn spirit prison.

>>49814465
Amber chronicles
Hyperion Cantos (Hyperion is awesome, Endymion is good but not as great)
Discworld
Drizzt series, yeah, I know, I know, but they were great when I was in high school, I suppose I'd cringe at some of them today. I wonder whatever happened to them IIRC I stopped reading them after thousand orcs trilogy or something like that. I became dull and cringe as fuck

>>49847016
*it became
LOL
the irony

>>49846794

First of all, he does do all those things. The short stories depict a lot of that.

To the point that its those things that keep the bulk of bullshit away from chicago. When he fucked off and died, things went FUBAR because his reputation wasn't there to save them any more

>>49846992
He asked Uriel and Uriel said no and Ivy almost certainly wouldn't get herself involved in a war just because Harry happens to be her friend. And Harry might be mostly on top of modern culture, but he knows shit all about science and technology. As for tapping into the energy of some music festival or shit, in the very same book he taps directly into a fucking leyline and flattens a couple thousand vampires, but he couldn't do that twice in the same night and he certainly couldn't carry all that energy with him.

Just think for a moment: Darkhallow was a ritual created by one of the most powerful necromancers who ever lived. THAT's the kind of knowledge and skill you need to create a ritual to power yourself up. We're talking about centuries of experience and practically unprecedented talent. Harry is strong and somewhat talented for a wizard of his age, but he isn't some second coming of the Merlin.

>>49847144
Actually I'm pretty sure he is the second coming of Merlin. Not in a literal sense, but he's a direct descendant and will take that title in time.

>>49847144
Yeah, but Harry literally knows how to do the Darkhallow. He brags about it in one book to one of his enemies. He never sat down with Bob and thought 'how can we make this less evil? How about we channel happy emotions, energy stored over time like the rings I use or fucking lightning?'

>>49841279
i think this is a really good summary of the series so far. the books are severely flawed in a couple ways, but still worth reading for the things it does well.

also, hello my fellow Denna-hater. Kvothe should have gotten with best girl Devi or Fela when he had the chance instead of wasting time chasing after worst girl.

>>49849200
What is it with fantasy characters mooning over the least desirable woman?

>ctl+f
>no Gene Wolfe
You sadden me /tg/

The books of the New Sun for when you want a sci-fi setting in decline. The Wizard Knight for when you want Nordic mythology and Arthurian legend. Latro in the Mist for when you want Greek Mythology. Pirate freedom for buccaneering and nautical stuff. He's a great author. Tends to focus on the main character as an unreliable narrator/flawed hero and the heroic journey.

>>49841085
Which is odd because it started five years before Supernatural did.

>>49841824
You think kids aren't going to tear mercilessly into the girl in their class named Khaleesi?