Imperium Asunder

>>49804425
Whoa we quiet today.

Should have a properly written out 6th Crusade on the wiki soon. Been busy.

Mulling over a few other campaigns. I feel like doing one with a lot of Oathsworn presence.

We've got a lot of Bloodhounds/Second Sons/Negators warbands.

Anyone got any idea for warbands of the Behemoth Guard, Silver Spears, and Arms of Asura? I get the impression that the Judgement Bringers and Eyes of the Warmaster don't really do warbands, being big on discipline and such.

>>49804425
why is the OP a picture of a beer?

>>49806089
Good question.

>>49805134
One idea tossed out a while ago was all the Oathsworn gathering near the Furewall. All of them. This many Oathsworn gathering spooks pretty much everyone since that hasn't happened since the Siege of Luna, and draws a crusade force from all concerned parties on both side of the wall that converges on them.

>>49805965
I'd been imagining that the Behemoth Guard have something of a split administrative system. Specifically, I'd been thinking there are hellforges under Behemoth Guard control that are administered by the Houses and Great Companies of the original Legion.
So Hellforges like Xana II, Mezoa, etc have warbands that are still more or less part of the legion. They are responsible for tithes of War Engines to the Dark Imperium, but in return get a greater proportion of resources.

In contrast to these Hellforge based warbands, there's also a set of nomad chapters, typically off raiding Segmentum Tempestus or the Storm Kingdoms.
They don't answer directly to the hierarchy of the Legion, but have no tithe duties either.
The boundary between these isn't wholly fixed and many nomadic warbands have founded Hellforges of their own. They don't have to associate with the main body of the legion, but being the chosen of Tzneetch, the lure of scheming is strong and Gengrat is generous with those who win his favor.
Likewise, Hellforges will send out fleets to settle new worlds and expand their holdings. These sometimes fission and splinter.
When Gengrat calls for a crusade, they all tend to come running, again, I'm thinking Gengrat is surprisingly generous and close with his legion and is happiest when they're off making new horrors and scheming.
He's a great dad/mentor the same way Hannibal Lecter is a great mentor.

>>49805134
> a lot
It would he interesting to see a whole company together. Probably a lot of infighting due to having spent so much time independent.

>>49806186
And den?

>>49801712
But they were being treated like traitors.

And arguablu were doing some pretty dodgy things if not outright forbidden. So to even if they knew that the Imperium was being manipulated by the warmaster (which i doubt the rank and file did) they still would have likely thought of themselves as abandoned by the Emperor. (Who was on terra at the time and doing nothing to help them).

So i doubt theyd be martyring themselves for him, or claiming their deeds in his name rather than in the name.of humanity.

>>49806644
Heck, now that I think of it, Anthony Hopkins would make a great Gengrat Vannevar...

>>49805965
With regard to the Arms of Asura, I'd imagined that they had massive basilicas and all the kind of things that you get with the Ecclesiarchy, maybe including Asuran Sisterhoods.

So far as a warband goes, I'd imagine that part of the motivating factor would be cult.
There's probably one big warband per chaos god, and then a few with really weird rituals and beliefs.

Definitely a major coven of warp sorcerors who come up with ever crazier warp rituals. They're the ones who make the Firewall flicker and set up the stuff to fling chaos fleets across the galaxy during that crusade.

There's probably some evangelists from hell who show up and inspire cultist uprisings all over the place.

And maybe some daemon-binders, a practice not in fafor with the rest of the legion, who have a weird competition with the Behemoth Guard.

PROMPT: brainstorm legion rules for the Scions, because Sarco has no idea how balance works or even how to play 30k.

>>49807278
Tell us about how they fight. Describe if you could a small company attack on a city. Then tell us how they would defend a city.

Or ship, outpost, dock, factory what have you.

>>49807278
Their rite of war will reflect organizational structures of the legion as well as specialist units. For the Scions it'd definitely at least involve dreadnoughts as troops or more dreadnoughts per slot or something.

The Legiones Astartes: Undying Scions rule should reflect how the Scions fight, which afaik is mostly focused on sieges. Maybe a flat cover bonus to all units?

>>49807508
Sieges is a term thrown around a fair bit in 40k without significant meaning. Are they more imperial fist or iron warrior?

If the former something like you suggest should work. Maybe if they don't move while in cover they gain +1.

If the latter something like reroll damage on buildings as well as reduce enemy cover saves by 1 for each unit after the first that targets that enemy unit.

>>49807508
>>49807640
A cover bonus would also harken back to their pre-Interment tactics.

Rite of War-wise, I think they ought to have a pre-interment style force and a buffed version of the March of the Ancients generic.

Maybe give an option to make the Praetor and some Consuls Dreadnoughts?

>>49805134
Going back to an idea in last thread, what are some ideas for Storm Kingdoms Auxiliae forces.

Had an idea for some electricity worshiping Mechanicum. Very much an Anglo Saxon shield wall feel. Blessed EM shields harmonized to the fore, shock lances and sacred lightning guns.
I'm imagining Iron Circle type robots with massive shields arrayed to lead castellax armed with massive arc guns.

>>49808912
Honestly i think our efforts are better spent getting all the legions to the same point rather than delving deeply.

The storm hammers and oathsworn have progressed well over the last weeks. I think we should flesh out scions as per sarcos prompt and move onto other less detailed legions before returning to continue building those two.

>>49806089
>>49806139
I got home pretty drunk last night. Wanted to check the thead, but I saw it was gone, so I made a new one. I messed up and chose the wrong picture, so I picked the one I sent to my gf earlier that night. Honestly, I'm suprised I didn't fuck it up more.

>>49808964
Legit.

So as I understand it, and Sarco please correct me if I'm wrong, the Scions have a few layers to them.

Before Sarco, they were gruff wall builders, steel resolve.
When Sarco came, he really shook things up. He taught them the ways of sneaking and stalking and Tarzanning. Sort of like a Raven Guard and Space Wolf hybrid.

After Sarco gets boxed, the legion ends up a weird mix of the two. Sneaky beakies and then suddenly dreadnoughts.
The different chapters mix them to varying degrees. Some keep the RG style sneaky and then ambush stuff, while others are more the stern Iron types, which is the more common of pattern.

>>49809285
Yep, that's pretty accurate. When Sarco is recovering enough to be put in the dreadnought, the Emperor takes control of the legion and molds their tactics to be closer to what he thinks the Imperium needs, which just so happened to be siege defense. Pretty wild how that turned out to be their main role after Terra fell, isn't it?

>>49810596
Around the same time the marines decided that emulating Sarco in every possible way was the thing to do, which caused a lot of them to be interred in dreadnoughts ate when he came back to them at Nikaea.

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>>49807489
From what I understand, they fight defensively, putting a lot of faith in the durability of the dreadnought chassis, with few to no tactical squads. Instead, their uninterred Marines are in specialist or support roles.

I imagine an Undying Scions company looks a lot like this:

>Command Unit
Company Commander (probably in a Leviathan)
x2 Contemptor Veterans (retinue)

>Tactical Detachment
x2 Castraferrum Dreadnoughts
x2 Castraferrum Dreadnought
x1 Castraferrum Hellfire Dreadnought
x1 Castraferrum Siege Dreadnought

>Support Detachment
x1 Deredeo Dreadnought
x1 Devastator Squad

>Assault Detachment
x1 Contemptor Dreadnought
x1 Assault Squad

So basically, all the tactical squads are replaced with a Castraferrum pattern dreadnought, then you have the four extra dreads that a standard battle company usually has access to + commander.

I can see standard assault or devastator squads being replaced by units with special weapons rather than heavies, allowing them to quickly target potential threats to their dreadnought elders.

Scouts I think would act as sappers or artillery support units.

>>49807640
I think they're more Imperial Fist.

>>49808964
Okay, so, things we know about the Legion:

1. Dreads!

2. They prize endurance and tenacity. See themselves as the premiere bulwark against Chaos.

3. They hate Eldar.

4. Have a weird death cult focused around the power of dreadnoughts. There's a group called the Funerary Guard that act as keepers of lore/history, guardians for ancient dreads, and semi-inquisitors that hunt down heretek influence.

5. There is a problem with internal Necrontech cults that want to use xeno technology to make themselves truly deathless.

>>49812837
They also have a small but persistent tradition of stealth and ambush techniques from when Tarzan lead the legion in the flesh.

>>49813272
I think this is something that could tie into their use of dedicated specialist weapon squads mentioned in >>49811443

The backbone are the dreadnoughts, but there are small groups of sneakies with meltaguns that pick out nasty targets that van potentially ruin a dreadnought assault.

>>49814210
Could definitely work, essentially infiltrating special weapons squads. I'm not quite sure what Sarco had been thinking for their Tarzan Era, but it could be pretty cool if the Dreads were treated as unit champions, so in less dread specialized companies, you'd have MKIII plate squads charging up the field covering and fighting alongside a chapter ancient.

I'd also think that a result of this organization would be a tendency to field more, smaller units given that there was basically a 3:1 marine to dread ratio in >>49811443

>>49812837
LA suggestions.
Iron Wall: dreadnoughts gain +1 armour to thier front.
Ancestral knowledge/enhanced sensors: infantry within 6" of a dread gain move through cover.
= elite dreadnought patterns gain venerable for free. Others can take at cost.

>>49814521
Also probably worth bringing up the various later chapters and figuring out which ones are first founding and what their deal is.

I recall the Ashbearers, who are pyros with awesome censer-flamers.
There's a sneaky beakie chapter.
There's also a bunch who take the dreadnought fetish to the logical extreme and are all rad-happy, figuring that the flesh is weak anyways, might as well get a dreadnought chassis. These guys are probably an old destroyer formation from the crusade.

Another question is the extent to which the Aodhan style glory search survived from his wild period.

>>49815204
Sarco mellowed out a lot after his interment, and realized that it was more becoming of a primarch to be a wise military leader rather than a glorified shock trooper.

The Ash Bearers used to be called the Heralds of Hadrianus, and got lost in the webway when countering a Negators attack on their homeworld. This is where they found a shard of the c'tan Nyadra'zatha, the Burning One, and started worshiping it.

I don't remember the name of the sneaky ones, but it would make sense for them to have panther in their name. Pale Panthers?

The radnoughts are called the Dust Striders and I think they might secretly be loyalist Second Sons, which disconcerts me.

>>49815549
Loyalist from traitor legions are always a point of contention. I like 'em, as long as they're not overdone.

>>49816240
I'd imagine some legions are more disposed to it than others and there's probably a few really famous cases and then some more minor instances. Awareness of it probably varies by state. Xun, for example makes a big deal of it and the Martyrdom of Anwynn MacLior is performed annually.
The Tzolkin derived from loyalists is generally kept quiet though.

Legionwise, there's probably not anyone from the Eyes.
The Judgement Bringers have Romulus Kursk and his tanks.
There's probably some Negators.
Out of the loop Behemoth Guard probably act quite similarly to Iron Warriors when they hear of treachery.
The Second Sons probably have the most loyalists, which would be everyone not with Saul on Armageddon.
I'd assume that they're a cohesive bunch but their professional Demeanor means that they'd be likely to be used for long sieges with the Imperial army.

>>49815549
> mellowed out and became a wise leader rather than glorified shock trooper
I think Dread Sarco and Raydon would have some interesting discussions as Raydon struggles to remove himself from the battle space. He knows his talents bc are useful elsewhere but also knows he can solo a job that would risk dozens of astartes.

>>49816598
Loyalists from traitors shouldn't survive to the 40k period. Apart from maybe 1 or 2 pkayers who havent been on a battlefield for jonks

>>49816714
Most definitely. I was more thinking in the Heresy and its immediate aftermath. Even with the immortality granted by being a chosen of the Emperor, dudes from the heresy era are still incredibly rare.

>>49816240
Same.

I think there are a few Legions that shouldn't have any though. The Eyes, the Hearts, the Warp Raiders and the Bloodhounds spring to mind.

>>49816714
I think there shouldn't be any individuals remaining.

A few chapters that formed from the loyalist remnants of traitor Legions could be around.

So, who is the current Legion Praetor of the Undying Scions.

>>49817343
Agreed. So how much of the Second Sons legion is off, engaged in independent campaigns when the heresy hits?
Maybe a decent number of the ones who would have survived and been loyal were called to Luna for that siege? In part because the Warmaster didn't entirely trust Gengrat's certainty, but also because moving all the Second Sons to Armageddon would have aroused suspicion, whereas an emergency recall to defend Terra would be less so.

Also sets up a nice hatred between the Oathsworn and Second Sons.

With regard to other loyalists, I think the most common scenario is going to be guys out of the loop, since so far as I know, there's not much of an Istvaan III scenario, unless it's battles against the Oathsworn?
The Traitors still take casualties, but it has the double purpose of purging the ranks and destroying Oathsworn.

>>49817366
I guess something like bkood ravens, space sharks and such would be okay. Those who hide their linage or just dont know it for one reason or another that we design as progenitors of traitor geneseed

>>49818880
I dont think theyd be accepted anywhere near terra or luna.

The loyalists wouldnt trust them. The traitors wouldn't trust them. They would likely have to hide. Or if they wanted to help out. Theyd need to do it secretly pr without 'permission'

>>49818907
Remember, there are fuckton of loyalists from traitor legions in the Broken Blades. Everyone knows about them and they stay in segmentum tempestus, forever fighting at the front lines.

>>49818955
During the Heresy, Anon. I'm talking about purging Loyalists during the Heresy.

>>49818962
Yeah initially. They are literally sent there to die though. Its like a penance. They go there to fight in the most active and dangerous theatre of war. They are housed, fed and armed. But they arent going to survive a few thousand years of near constant combat.

>>49818989
Maybe im confused with their timeline. They turn traitor shortly before reaching terra. But are loyalists when they set off right?

>>49819131
>Broken Blades
Sure, attrition happens, but if they're working like other chapters, then they'll recruit too and so there should be a consistent, potentially increasing number.

>Timeline
I'd been thinking the Second Sons main body is involved in Ork compliance actions starting a bit after Nikea.
The thing is, they seem like the sort of legion not to all run around in a single fleet, particularly given their tendency to work with the Imperial Army.
So this would raise the question of what happens to those chapters, since it might well be a sizable portion of the legion.

So I'm thinking that part of the effort by the Warmaster to prune the loyalists involves using them on Luna. So he sends the Sons he can to die on Luna. Most are on Armageddon and turn traitor, a decent number are dead on Luna, leaving fewer free agents who are likely to remain loyal once they find out what has happened.

Similarly, I was thinking about how they'd purge loyalists in traitor legions, and I think the Oathsworn compliance is probably a huge asset in that.

What if, in addition to being where Sarco and Aodhan dueled for the first time, Malphas was also the planet where Sarco was injured by the phantom?

>>49812837
So here's a question I don't think I've seen addressed anywhere before:
What are the Scions non-Astartes allies like?
I'd assume they have a forgeworld they're tight with who provides the sarcophagi, so what's their deal? Do they make use of certain variants of dreadnoughts for their own purposes? Are they more Thallax enthusiasts?

What are the Legion Serfs like? Do they ever take to the field of battle?

Any Imperial Army regiments they're close with during the crusade?

Post heresy, what are some of the local regiments that are raised?

Actually, for that matter, what happens to Amaranth? Does it stay feral or does it get made into a major world?

>>49820827
>What are the Scions non-Astartes allies like?
The Scions maintain a selection of forge worlds independent from forgespace, and have promised them protection in exchange for the creation of new sarcophagi. Each forge world has an attache of astartes advisors to assist in shoring up defenses and ensure loyalty.

>What are the Legion Serfs like? Do they ever take to the field of battle?
Legion serfs generally do not see combat, though they have received training in it since M35 when Amaranth came under attack from Eldar Corsairs.

>Any Imperial Army regiments they're close with during the crusade?
As the Scions acted largely as a support force, they did not serve alongside any Imperial Army regiments for any meaningful amount of time

Post heresy, what are some of the local regiments that are raised?
Regiments supported by the Unyielding Vigil include the Grogan Thunderheads, the Hygelac Dog-Soldiers, and the Golgorian Dungeon Crawlers.

>>49821236
>what happens to Amaranth?
Amaranth largely remains a feral world, as Sarco wished for it to stay that way to supply aspirants for his legion. That said, the council chambers and surrounding monastery are built on the highest peak and often play host to important figures from around the Vigil.

>>49819237
The broken blades are akin to french foreign legion or blackshields with deathwatch. They dont recruit, so much as accept Astartes joining them.

They dont maintain genebanks, so they dont reproduce loyalist-traitors. The most you could really hope for is that their arms and armour are passed down as relics.

Most of the modern day blades are Knights Errants, Hawks, and temp volunteers from all over the joint.

>>49823062
That sounds kind of odd, considering the broken blades consist of forces from the Knights Exemplar, yeah? Or am I thinking of something else?

Either way I think the Jade Empire has several Tzolkin/Chapters formed from loyalists from traitor legions in the immediate aftermath of the Heresy. These are established alongside/as part of the same edict and command structure as survivors of broken legions.
So you've probably got some Negators, Behemoth Guard, Romulus Kursk and his boys, some Second Sons, Oathsworn, Knights Exemplar, and Undying Scions in the Jade Empire immediately after the Heresy. Depending on how bad the Warp Storms are, Storm Hammers, Void Lords, and the rest may well be integrated into the legion structure as well.

As the warp storms clear up, each of these is returned to their crusader state/legion, with the Undying Scions the last to be returned.

This leaves the chapters of Knights, Oathsworn, and Loyalists. For propaganda value, these guys are all held up as exemplars of loyalty and duty, but as time goes on, the precise identity of the Tzolkin from traitor legions becomes intentionally obscured. The Oathsworn are too damn distinctive and the Knights Exemplar are beyond reproach. Keeping them fighting is part of a duty to the memory of Klaus and Faustus.
They are, of course, always free to go, but in practical terms, while the martial and cultural traditions are passed down, the recruits are drawn from the Jade Empire and they operate in that structure.

Really, when you get down to it, having multiple 'legions', represented by multiple gene-seeds and by distinct commands is part of how Xun constructs his case as the heir of the Emperor and Malcador. Though keep in mind, for Xun it's more than personal vanity, as far as he's concerned the Imperial space can't be left open. The ruler is the moral pole star of the people and the ruler derives their legitimacy from their virtue.

>>49823232
Xun believes that in the absence of the Emperor, Malcador, Klaus, and Faustus, he is the best person to inspire humanity to greatness and thus he is the rightful pole-star of the people, ie Emperor.
Basically, Space Confucian Ideology makes Xun want to keep them around. (The great irony is that virtue as a ruler largely consists of being Machiavellian.)
I'd imagine other legions have varying policies. I'd assume Raydon offers loyal warriors a place in his own fleet, while Engerand likely offered them border fiefs.

What pets would exist in Imperium asunder?

>>49823232
They were founded by the Warhawks and the Knights Exemplar. In fact the majority of its members at any given time are Knights Errant. The Knights provided the materials and a majority of pers, the Hawks provided fleet assets and pers. Then they filled in the gaps with recruits from traitot legions, rogue paladins who wanted to take up a more active roll, and now pretty much anyone who volunteers. They are supported by vigil, forge, and serpent forgeworlds and act as a vanguard force and first line defence in the Gap. But whilst that might sound like a lot of support, they arent a top priority nor receive consistent levels. Most volunteers serve for a tour and return to their parent chapter / legion.

>>49823232
>tzolkin of hybrid geneseeds
You dont expect these guys to survive to around the 40k period do you?

>Raydon
Just post heresy he was having serious trust issues, his bff's turned traitor and for a while he lost trust in his instincts which usually served as a judge of character (as well as spider sense). He still felt bonds of brotherhood but at the same time couldnt just let potential traitors into the fleet.

Its one of the reasons he established the Broken Blades. A home for outcasts so they wouldnt be alone. But at the same time... lacking the ability to cause further damage, being able to hold the line but little else.

He elected a KE as its first Commander and left a body of troops to help.

Its all he thought he could do for them at the time.

>>49820149
I'm sorry, but, who was Malphas again? Sarco's equerry?

>>49824176
Malphas is a planet. It's where the Scions and the Negators were sent by the Warmaster before the Heresy, so Aodhan could kill Sarco far away from Terra.

>>49823462
>You dont expect these guys to survive to around the 40k period do you?

Well, there are a few loyalist chapters from traitor geneseed in 40K. Just not many of them.

The Red Scorpions, the Blood Ravens, the Carcharodons, etc. IIRC the Marines Malevolent are implied to be of Iron Warrior stock.

>>49823462
>Broken Blades
Then what happens to the Gene-Seed? And does that mean that if the Blades were the only place for the Knights Exemplar, the legion would have gone extinct long ago?

>Tzolkin
Not hybrid gene-seed, straight up Knight Exemplar or Oathsworn or what have you.
Those legions survive somehow, yeah?

And it'd be ambiguous as to whether or not these chapters actually have non-Serpents gene seed. But it's important for propaganda that the Sky Serpents say they have chapters which have been functioning since the heresy and represent the dudes who gave everything.
(Again, they do keep the ones derived from loyalists quiet, so no one knows for sure except the top echelons.)

Fist guy here, whats going on?

>>49825368
We've been fleshing out the crusades and moving between less fully developed legions to give them more substance. Currently we're talking about what happens with loyalists from traitor legions.

Speaking of, there are three confirmed loyalist chapters from traitor stock, no? One Undying Scions chapter, one Broken Blades order and one Sky Sepents tzolkin.

>>49825368
What would the Fists think of loyalists from traitor legions? Would they be accepted in the Forgespace?

>>49826138
>>49825368
Various faction within the Forge Space may or may not have differing views but those that hold to Marcus's beliefs would never accept them, the fists of mars hand many traitors and in fighting during the heresy and marcus himself ordered mars destroyed before falling into traitoris hands.

>>49825913
I don't think the rad dreads are 100% confirmed. Maybe just implied.

>>49825303
>Then what happens to the Gene-Seed? And does that mean that if the Blades were the only place for the Knights Exemplar, the legion would have gone extinct long ago?

This is a bit of a loose end. I can't see anyone wanting the Exemplars to die out.

To be honest, deep in Segmentum Tempestus, on the front, with little communication with anyone, the rules are probably a little blurry. I can imagine multiple groups of Broken Blades turning into full chapters and either obfuscating their origins or not giving a single fuck what other loyalists think, they're in the shit and they will fight as best they can.

>>49826988
That makes more sense.
Given the current OU HH fluff, I think there were far more loyalists than we'd thought and they were incorporated quietly into the Imperium, hidden during the breakup into chapters.

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>>49827439
The Knights of MacLior are in the latter category.

>fight during the Fist and Second Crusades as Broken Blades
>continue to fight in Segmentum Tempestus while the Crusader States rebuild
>start recruiting
>start painting their armour white and blue
>"hey uh guys why you recruiting?"
>"fuck u bitch go away we busy"
>"uhhh... all that blue stuff is looking a lot like negators warpaint, maybe you wanna tone it"-
>"fuck off faggot we 10x purer than u, talk to the hand"
>"look, if you don't stop, we're coming to get you"
>"bring it buttercup, we're so far up Chaos' ass you gonna need an adamantium ice cream scoop if you wanna get to us"

Hey, can somebody post that one image of all the Legions?

I just realized that I don't have it saved.

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>>49827970

>>49827998
Thanks dude.

>>49827789
>>49825913
So given all this, I'd say that there's several chapter's worth of loyalists, as well as substantial numbers of Knights Exemplar.
The question is then how they're dealt with immediately after the heresy, since that's going to impact how visible they are, etc.

>>49829312
I think they're either chucked into broken blade orders or tzolkins.

FoM and Angels of Light don't tolerate them at all.

>>49825222
Thats because with the imperium winninh the heresy they have the means to use traitor genestock. The Asunder States dont have that luxury.

>broken blades
Gene seeds are collected when possible and sent back to there parents. Why would they be extinct sorry im not following.

>tzolkin
So are they on loan? Or have changed there loyalty to be half-half or full to the Serpents?

>>49825913
IRT broken blades thwy start off with lots pf traitors. Xun amd I are discussing the likelihood of traitorsloyalists surviving to the 40k period as they wouldnt have the same means of reproduction

>>49830141
Wouldn't the scarcity of resources in AI mean they'd be more pressed to use traitor geneseed? That shit's precious.

>>49830141
I think the thing with tzolkin chapters from loyalistraitor origins is that they're fully integrated into the Jade Empire and have obscured their past over time.

Everyone knows that there were some chapters thrown together from traitor stock back in the day, but they may not know which specifically they are by the 41st millennium.

>>49831416
Yeah maybe, but where from though?
It takes bulk geneseed to create a chapter and they would require intense oversight. There would no doubt be proponents for but equally if not more against the idea. So assuming a faction could gather the resources wiuld it be worth going to war to test?

>>49831721
Yeah i get what Xun is saying (i think) my question is to how it would be viable/actually enacted.

Ex.

You have 300 odd bloodhounds and 200 second sons who claim to be loyal at 30k timeline.

You make up a tzolkin of 500 and pad it out with another 500 of your own troops (maybe more) to keep watch.

Over the years and countless battles they start dying off. You can replace your serpents easily enough, but the culture, traditions, training, equipment, and mentality of the second sons and bloodhounds would dilute over time. Not to mention that over the years you would not be able to generate sufficient genestock to replace the bloodhounds or Second sons.

So say you manage to recover 1:2 geneseed. Over 10k years youd be hard pressed to have a single traitor seed still active and they wouldnt be distinguishable from serpents due to the training and culture they are raised in.

Not to mention that 40k lore implies that genetic pools and traits are actually planet specific, so not having the recruitment planets would mean further dilution.

What im saying is, that whilst traitor seed might be valuable (as all geneseed is) its also risky, and by the time you get to M35 id argue that its no longer providing any gain, whilst still providing risk. So wouldnt be sustained.

>>49831721
Precisely.

>>49831416
I'd agree with that.

I think it makes more sense that the Broken Blades have powerful patrons, early on, at least. Then they, as time goes on, they end up getting their own forges, with crusader states keeping them supplied as the years pass as part of a prestige thing-- I'm thinking that it is something along the lines of the Broken Blades developing a reputation for being the front-line guardians of the Imperium.

(At least the Jade Empire is invested in keeping them funded. The further away the front line is, the better. That's also why they support the Storm Kingdoms. Better they soak the damage of invasion.)

>>49832406
I'd argue that the truth of the matter is irrelevant. There's cultural traditions that are passed down on the idea that some of these dudes are the loyalist successors of the heroes 10,000 years ago.
Is it authentic? Not in the slightest. No more than the Blood Ravens are authentic Thousand Sons. Or heck, no more authentic than the Red Talons' representation of the Iron Hands.

Though I think there may be some notable exceptions like the Knights of MacLior who were a Chapter scale unit of Negators who remained loyal.

It's also worth saying that a great deal of time and effort is expended keeping the Knights Exemplar and the Oathsworn alive I think you'd get into a very weird situation if the same courtesy wasn't extended to the Loyalists, particularly when you're setting them up as true paragons of virtue.

I think the planetary gene-stock is only at issue in the case of the Wolves due to the Canis Helix, which really doesn't make any sense since how did the Emperor know that Russ would end up on Fenris?

>>49832595
Did you see these?
>>49821236
>>49821277

>>49832595
> Broken Blades
Yeah more or less how i envisaged them developing

>truth is irrelevant
I, well i honestly dont know what to do with this sentiment. At that point isnt ut just easier to say that the Serpents "claim" to have a tozlkin of loyalists traitors and not actually invest in doing so? It sounds like a 'perception is reality' type comment where what people think is true is equal to or greater than what is true. Which makes sense in a political sens but not military. Honestly confused.

>great deal pf effort keeping KE and Oathsworn alive
Effort from who?

>Same courtesy
While yes they stayed loyal, i think we have differing views on how others would trust them. They might truly be paragons of virtue, they could likewise be spies, hell they could be sleepers and truly think they are loyalists.

I think post heresy the asunderverse becones hyper paranoid. Not tolerate.

Lots of chapters recruit from the same planets to inculcate traits from the populace. Even if its just societal structures or a quirk where geneseed acceptance is higher.

My point was that the qualities that youd want to capitalise on wouldnt be there (or might not) where as the downsides (prone to corruption) would be.

I think the level if paranoia toward loyalists from traitor legions would vary between Crusader States, and with regard to performance in the field.

I'm imagining that most of these Marines have gone through a serious grinder with the first few crusades. Many groups died out completely while others dwindled down to the point where there's zero influence from their parent legions. Others served with extreme distinction.

There's also the possibility of some dudes being too useful the throw away. I imagine Malcador might be interested in loyalist Arms of Asura for his GK-ish project due to their psychic talent. A few loyal Behemoth Guard dudes could be too talented with machines and maybe to get rid of when you have lost a bunch of your infrastructure. And again Malcador might be interested in the few Negators that have internalized that precog drug they use and produce it on their own.

Still, I reckon the Fists, the Angels, the Warhawks and the Hammers would have zero tolerance. Kor obviously takes anyone in and Xun is more nuanced with his decisions.

>>49833403
Bueno, that's some good info. You should chuck it into the wiki.

It'd be cool to know where those forge worlds are, what they're called, what they produce, etc. I think the Vigil should have no shortage of famous fortress worlds too. I can imagine there being several distinct lines with their own designations, in between which are located the forge worlds, agri worlds, hive worlds, etc, that keep them supplied.

>>49835345
I think you dont grasp the shock and terror inherent in a betrayal of such size.

Imagine if Alpha Legion rocked up and were like "yeah all part of the plan we were loyalists this whole time". Noone would hesitate in destroying the shit out of them.

Now add on that the Warmaster is a manipulator to the highest degree and now you have the very real possibility of them being agents sent to fight against their own force to better infiltrate the loyalist forces. The Warmaster and his agents are patient.

Think about real world issues with refugees and potential hidden threats. Now move that paranoia and fear into a universe dominated by militaristic factions with grim darkness theown in.

>>49835721
This isn't really like the Alpha Legion example.

Yeah, if a bunch of Warp Raiders rolled up like "Hey guys sorry about that we didn't mean it, there was this big plan and eh no hard feelings yeah?" they'd get blammed.

But in many cases loyalists from traitor legions would have fought alongside loyal legions during the Heresy. Some may not have even known their Legion was traitor until well into the war. Some, like any Second Sons not on Armageddon, might not even know until after the Siege of Terra. There's a difference between seeing enemies roll up after a fight seeking reconciliation and actually witnessing them fighting alongside you, often against their own legions.

>>49835904
That said, I do think certain legions are sufficiently strigent/butthurt that they wouldn't care about any of this.

>>49835904
No mention of the warmasters potential plants
No mention of how crazy paranoid people actually get let alone grimderp paranoid.

>>49835721
Im not sure i follow the alpha analogy but you raise an interesting point IRT real life feelings and fears. If we magnify them my point comes across clearly.

>>49816598
>The Second Sons probably have the most loyalists, which would be everyone not with Saul on Armageddon.
I find this notion extremely interesting.

>>49838340
I dont see why most wouldnt remain loyal to Saul anyway.

I agree they might have the most but i disagree itd be anywhere near as much as 'everyone but'

>>49838340
I don't know. The whole radiation sickness thing started a good while before then, though it was kinda centered around Saul. A lot of his sons would probably stand with him even if they weren't on Armageddon. Partly out of loyalty/trust, and partly because they kinda have the same train of thought. Ultimately in their minds, twisted though they may be, they're still loyal in a way. They're trying to create peace after all.

I think they probably do have the most loyalists of any Traitor legion, but not 100% of the people not at Armageddon.

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>>49838665
>I think they probably do have the most loyalists of any Traitor legion, but not 100% of the people not at Armageddon.

So how many is most?

A company? Ten? Five guys in a rhino? One gary stu?

>>49838722
Well, I'd say like 65% of the people not at Armageddon. So a pretty sizeable number, considering size of the legion.

>>49838747
>>49838722
Id say no more than a couple hundred. Traitors purge their own if they arent on board with whats going down.

The SEcond Sons are described frequently as the most discipline army so they would follow the orders they got regardless of what they are.

Its not like they were kniwn for givibg a crap whilst loyal

>>49839198
They follow orders because they believe in what they do. Outside of Armageddon, there'd be more loyalists than traitors, so the traitors would have a really hard time getting rid of them.

>>49839221
Lulwut. Where are you getting this?

They are loyal to their Primarch just like every other legion both canon and asunder.

They arent communists who have every order explained to them and theu discuss what to follow amd what to ignore.

They do what they are told. And this is the legion that is literally known for its use pf destroyer squads and rad weapons.

They are hardly the kind to question if they are bombing the right people. If they were going to give a shit they would have waaaay before the end of the heresy.

Ypu get space marines arent nice people right?

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>>49839621
I'm not saying they aren't genetic killing machines, I'm saying the vast majority of them not under direct chaotic influence and addled by radiation are going to accept their prime directive going from "Secure the future of the Imperium of Man by any means" to "Kill literally everyone." Also, Preators can and do argue their Primarchs authority plenty in canon. Hell, even going against their orders has happened without huge kerfuffles.

>>49839668
Maybe in canon but these guys are characterized by thier discipline. It just doesnt make sense for a large portion of them to suddenly start caring about morality and ethics. There boss and there bros are shooting at X. Chances are they will shoot at X too. Hell X will no doubt shoot ay them first not knowing

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>>49839945
It's not about morality or ethics. It's about up and abandoning the institution they fight for what are essentially insane ravings. They're perfectly fine with bombing civilians and killing other astartes. They aren't okay with abandoning the reason they were bombing civilians at the drop of a hat.

Also, where are you getting this "defined by discipline" thing? They're defined by being willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done. They're drilled like modern soldiers and behave more like them than most other legions, yeah, but that's ultimately not really where the mentality comes from.

>>49836498
Valid points, but if anything, Marines are more likely to value personal experience and oaths over things other people are telling them. This is why you get stuff like the Badab War - because generally people trust dudes they've fought alongside for extended periods of time.

Let's say Johnny Bravo the Sky Serpent and Arnold Shortman the Second Son are both fighting against traitors during the Heresy. Their companies battle together against the forces of the Behemoth Guard and they get to know each other extremely well. Eventually, the find out that the majority of Second Sons have gone insane and turned traitor. At this point, Johnny Bravo and Arnold Shortman know each other pretty well, and Johnny Bravo doesn't really want to kill his friend.

That said, I don't think many chapters with traitor origins would be able to be open about this in 42M, nor do I think all legions/Primarchs would be logical. Alexios would definitely purge all loyalists from traitor legions that he could get his hands on.

>>49839990
I swear to god this is jusymt going to be some anon wanting to insert a loyalist legion of second sons mark my words

>>49840226
Wew that's some assumptions breh.

I'm pretty sure we're not going to add an extra loyalist legion at this stage. Loyalist Second Sons are probably the most numerous to be folded into the Broken Blades or as tzolkin, but we aren't adding a whole new main faction.

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>>49840226
No, this is Saul's anon saying that there would be a lot of Second Sons loyalists. At least comparatively.

That said, they probably end up mostly folding into other groups or becoming blackshields of various kinds. I don't see them remaining very cohesive without their Primarch and most of their commanding officers.

>>49840226
If someone has a cool idea we should encourage it.

Im not a massive fan of loyalist traitor groups either but they can be done well. Ala Blood Ravens.

>>49840295
This.

Loyalists from traitor groups can be good but by the 41st millennium they should be hiding their origins or be so far out on the front line that nobody can touch them.

There could be one or two groups that have achieved such fame that they're essentially beyond reproach by now, but that's it. Instances where people are like "welp, their great great great great great great great great great gene sires were shithead traitors but they sure showed us" should be ridiculously few and far between.

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>Second Sons are the most numerous loyalists from traitor legions
>literally become second, adopted sons to whatever legion they're folded into

POTTERY.

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>>49840567
I imagine they probably let their geneseed die out, except for some kept in stasis.

Though, Blackshields that become random crusaders or other vagabonds probably don't.

>>49840593
That does work out rather well doesn't it?

So there are non-Chaos traitor marines right? Would a group of Ex-Second Son mercenaries be too far out of the question? Or would they probably just get hunted down too quickly. I just feel like the Second Sons have the best aesthetic/cultural background for a ragtag band of soldiers of fortune.

>>49840635
It's a pretty big galaxy, and the entire Tempestus Segmentum is contested space.

So, I'm thinking that the 9th Great Crusade is a push by the Forgespace and the Unyielding Vigil, motivated primarily by elements in both Crusader States that want to get their hands on a particular bunch of worlds supposedly hiding certain tech.

There'd be a lot of successors from other Crusader States helping out and it'd end with a successful push that, rather than continuing onwards, descends into suspicious infighting as it comes to light that many of the Forgespace forces present are more interested in reinforcing an excavating certain worlds.

Sound cool?

>>49841764
I like it, gives finally really gives the Fists something new to do. I'm guessing their main targets would be Behemoth Guard controlled worlds?

>>49841917
Fists did kind of run out of things to be involved in. do they use their uberwaffen here?

>>49842172
Just how uber is their uberwaffen?

>>49842192
there were ideas thrown around a while back of the fists using one of their stockpiles to stop a major threat dead in its tracks but then reeling from huge losses of production afterwards

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v6hkbIdycpc

I don't know how, I don't where, but I know I must include an irregular regiment of fire and brimstone evangelical Imperial Faith believers. Complete with deep South accents, shotguns, and white collars.

>>49842506
>Lusiana Whitecollars

A regiment of redeemer cultists from the Imperium Minorum would be pretty cool.

>>49842261
Oh. I was expecting something like creating a supernova or something.

>>49842799
that sounds like fun, just spit balling ideas.

>>49841764
The ninth crusade was when the Unyielding Vigil was embroiled in civil war because the necrons decided to play their hand, wasn't it?

>>49842506
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Realm_Guard_and_Mercenaries#Brimstone_Fire-Eaters
You already have senpai.

>>49842859
I'm thinking it's time to fill this in once and for all then, because I've seen there be confusion about this too many times. What are 13 crusades? And how set are we on there being 13? I understand it's meant to be analogous to Abaddon's 13 crusades, but if we have more ideas, we should just add more.

>>49843074
I feel vaguely strongly about their only being 13, if you want to add more ideas then have more things happen in each crusade, i don't think enough is going on in each crusade at the moment really.

>>49843074
>>49843122
I think we should have 13 Great Crusades that are loyalists v traitors and any number of separately named Crusades that revolve around other matters. Like in the OU, basically, where you have the Macharian Crusade, the Damocles Crusade, the Armageddon Crusade(s) etc etc, all separate from the 13 big ones.

This keeps the 13 analogous to Abaddon's Black Crusades while leaving room for infinite other stuff.

>>49842859
I honestly think the civil war in the Vigil should be named the [Insert Name] Heresy. Or the [Insert Name] Schism.

>>49843345
yeah that doesn't feel like a crusade

>>49835345
This sounds good to me.

>>49833921
I see where you're coming from, but I'm thinking the brotherhood of blood means a lot and that loyalists bring integrated into legions aren't just showing up out of nowhere saying hey we're good guys. They're guys who fought alongside Serpent, Hammer, or Scion forces and proved their loyalty with blood.
Basically >>49840107

This probably does result in some Warmaster plants, but he's clever enough that he's got them inside all legions.


>>49840247
Agreed. This is a fairly minor detail.

>>49839668
Exactly.

>>49838506
I think the big factor is that Saul literally goes insane. They're soldiers and I think they'd balk at the order 'screw the Emperor and kill everyone'

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>>49843074
>>49843315
https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Imperium_Asunder_Campaigns#Great_Crusades

9th and 12th crusades are written/concepted but don't have blurbs on the page yet. I'll do something for the 12th after class today and Sarco should write something for the 9th. 1, 2, 3, 5, and 11 could use better and more descriptive blurbs.

3rd and 7th I would qualify as "loose concept but we haven't discussed it enough"

The only remaining Crusade # that hasn't been earmarked is the 10th. We should seriously consider which factions are underrepresented and use the 10th to spotlight them, if you ask me.

13 great crusades should specifically be wars that involve Crusader States, usually against an external foe but sometimes against another CS, as the people who decide "ok this is the xth crusade" in-universe are the order of Malcador (which I think somebody came up with a sweet name for but I can't remember.)

We should definitely have a few major conflicts that aren't official great crusades, though. Ork Kaoz WAAAGHs from Octarius, incursions from the Archaotect empire, infighting/insurrections in the Dark Imperium, regular old civil wars, all kindsa shit. Remember, in the grim darkness of the far future, there are a whole shitload of wars.

>>49844469
>consider which factions are underrepresented and use the 10th

In terms of Traitors, I think the least represented marines are actually the Eyes of the Warmaster. Do we have them doing any actual fighting *anywhere* yet? Remember they specialize in infiltration and put a lot of their guys in double agent and spy roles but they're still also a fully functioning Adeptus Astartes legion.

For the loyalists it's the Fists and the Broken Blades. Both have been sort of relegated to an "and they're there too!" status in the campaigns they participate in.

>>49842799
>>49842858
I had been imagining Dark Age technology, ranging from fairly quotidian STCs to doomsday weapons.
All of it is powerful but poorly understood. It's the kind of stuff that shows exactly why the Iron Hearts were purged, as the weapons are horrifically effective at an equally horrific price.

>>49844519
Well, we could do >>49841764
as the 10th Crusade.

It'd be easy to work the Broken Blades in, as they're all over Segmentum Tempestus, and I think the primary traitor forces in opposition should be the Eyes, the Behemoth Guard, and the Iron Hearts.

>>49844643
>>49844649
So the myriad Magi of the Forgespace manage to get their shit together and decide that they want to push into Tempestus to reclaim the variant design patterns, materiel, and mechanicus records on the forgeworlds of Gryphonne, Zhao-Arkkad, and Graia. Such forgeworlds hold valuable niche schematics like the Sarco Funerus Vanquisher, but most importantly of all, the Chimera, which the CS have had to do without for these dark milennia.

The Magi come first to the Broken Blades for help, forming a strong alliance with them and signing formal treaties entrusting claimed non-forge systems during the war to the Blades.

Who's in charge of the Broken Blades? If no one, who's, uh, *closest* to being in charge? Who has the most clout? A central character for the crusade might be nice.

>>49844767
>who is in charge of the broken blades
How about a Custodian? They're pretty individualistic, yeah?
So maybe Lith al-K'Ten decides that he can best atone by guarding the borders and takes the broken blades to the edges of the Imperium. With the person of the Emperor Ascended, guarding his person becomes the task of guarding the Imperium. Malcador backs him up, since it means that the broken blades who Guard the borders will (ideally) never be drawn into inter state conflict since they are dependent not on the nearby state, but on the Imperial Senate, placing them in the same class as the Warp Beacons and Astropaths.

>>49844767
We've only got like one order of Broken Blades even remotely fleshed out.

They probably don't have an overall leader but I can see them rallying around a single champion for the duration of the Crusade. Someone charismatic and determined, who embodies the inherent daring in what it is they do.

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Okay, so, how about this for a step-by-step of the 10th Crusade.

1. The Forgespace and Unyielding Vigil declare their joint intent to retrieve the treasures of Gryphonne, Zhao-Arkadd and Graia. Multiple successor chapters from all over flock to the cause, particularly from the Imperium Minorum and the Jade Empire.

2. The combined forces of the Dreadnought Legions, the Skitarii Clades, several Knight Houses and a whole host of successor chapters pierce deep into Segmentum Tempestus. They encounter staunch resistance from the various Iron Hearts bastions stationed throughout the expanse, but are assisted by the Broken Blades, who are united under Errant Commander [name here].

3. They launch a two-pronged attack on Zhao-Arkadd and Graia. The Behemoth Guard garrisons there hold long enough for reinforcements to arrive from the Iron Hearts and Eyes of the Warmaster, but the loyalists are ultimately victorious, though they pay a heavy price in blood.

4. Errant Commander [insert name] and several chapter masters among the assembled successors and legion forces press to continue to Gryphonne with all haste, but it soon becomes clear that the high leadership of the Forgespace and Vigil forces are more interested in transforming Zhao-Arkadd and, in particular, Graia, into fortress worlds. Debate rages as to whether it is more important for the Crusade to fully secure its gains or to press ahead before the Dark Imperium can marshal its full strength, and eventually it is discovered that there are elements among the Forgespace and Vigil that solely desire to study the heretical xeno artifacts on Graia.

>>49846631
5. Accusations are flung to and fro, and insults quickly transform into barrages of bolter fire. Errant Commander [name here] and his followers assert that the Crusade has been gripped by tech-heresy, whereas his opposition accuse him and his blackshields of revealing their true colours and turning traitor. The Crusading forces are split almost in half and a bloody civil war is fought over both Zhao-Arkadd and Gryphonne. As it becomes clear that the Errant Commander's forces are gaining the upper hand, there is a mass exodus. Many high ranking Magos vanish, and others devote their forces to ferrying what they have won back to the Forgespace. The inquiries that follow are exhaustive, but the extent of the heresy cannot truly be known, and many assume that a large number of tech-deviants escaped persecution for their crimes.

6. Errant Commander [name here] leads his diminished forces onward in a Hail Mary push for Gryphonne, arriving just in time to be engaged by an extensive fleet composed of Eyes of the Warmaster, Behemoth Guard, and Judgement Bringers assets. As the void battle rages, a series of surgical insertion strikes, now solely concerned with gathering information, are conducted upon the planet's surface. Very few of these expeditions return - soon after ground operations have commenced, the Judgement Bringers fleet, acting with characteristic spite, commences the total Exterminatus of Gryphonne.

7. The Crusade is an immensely Pyrrhic victory for the loyalists. Though they recovered many prizes, such as the Vanquisher Praetor plans, many other schematics and records were lost to them forever when Gryphonne burned. With insufficient forces to defend them, the outposts at Graia and Zhao-Arkadd were abandoned, and the Crusade wrought a terrible cost in blood.

>>49841917
>gives finally really gives
I read that half a dozen times trying to ascertain the meaning.

As for Behemoth guard i dont think theyd be able or want to utilise there form of tech. Those they likely would want to destroy it.

>>49843074
If we come up with more than 13 i say we keep the 13 most influential and others are given different names. Sort of like how we refer to WW1 and WW2.

So say if its infighting dont call it a 'great' crusade. It should have to meet certain criteria. Idea such as
>2+ loyalist forces join together
>primary enemy is 1+ traitor force
>has significant follow on
(Such as gains a forge world, weakens a force to a certain point, allows a figure to rise to fame, etc)

>>49843886
I think my take on modern events is most accurately summarized by this anon.>>49840567

By M33ish they should fade from active roles unless via blackshield/forgotten mysteries etc.

>>49844519
I will write up something on the beoken blades in the near future. For now im stuck using a car battery to charge my phone so i cant write or get on overly much.

>>49844767
These questions have answers and ill post them asap.

>>49846983
Oh lel. Even I don't know what I was typing there. Serves me right for getting distracted in class.

>>49846983
So a brief summary.

The broken blades are governed by a council of watch captains and brother Captains. Who in times of 'great' need elect from themselves the most suitable leader to temporarily assume total comnand until the situation is ended. (Much like Iron Hands)

The watch Captains are responsible for the security of worlds. Essentially planetary governors. They are often experts in logistics, defence, and/or command of non-astarte forces.

The Brother Captains are in command of individual brotherhoods. Brotherhoods vary a lot between each other. And typically 'poach' recruits from anywhere they can. Brotherhoods are the bulk of the Blades Astartes combat power. Some operate from planets and others from fleets.

Brotherhoods often but not always develop a specialility but are always hampered by lack of equipment/resources.

Because of the relative isolation, fortress worlds under a watch captain must be defensible for some time. They often also act as resupply and safe havens for brotherhood fleets.

The 'capital' of the organisation is a large star fort donated at there foundation by the Crimson Warhawks legion. And is only 1 of 3 that (are known to) remain in the universe. During times of threat the Star Fort can and will abandon The Gap in order to preserve the orders history and mission.

>>49846659
A point of order:
Where are these forgeworlds?

>>49846983
>Behemoth Guard and Mechanicum Tech
Nah, they are perfectly happy to loot mechanicum tech, it's just that they don't have much use for machine canon, which is basically Nurgle-Worship to them.

I'll write up something on the difference between a Behemoth Guard held-Hellforge and a regular Dark Mechanicum Hellforge, but essentially, the Behemoth Guard believe:

The Machine Spirit speaks to all. The Machine Spirit lives in all.

The Machine Spirit is the force of progress.

Life is Progress. Death is Stagnation.

Tzneetch is the Lord of Change and thus purest Omnissiah.

Dogma and the Machine Law bind the Spirit

The Works of Law are death, the Works of Spirit are life.

The Spirit of the Machine must be liberated from the Law.

The greater the soul, the greater is their need to be free.


So by this, the Behemoth Guard is perfectly happy to take a Land Raider, Vorax, or Plasma Bombard STC and set it free from the Machine Canon by changing it, by evolving it. This said, it is the nature of the Machine that components perform the same task reliably, so it's perfectly fine to use Forge-Thralls to do the same task over and over and over. It's just like a gear.

In this system, then, an uncreative Forge-Thrall has no soul and is just a component of a machine. A rebellious thrall that can create has a soul and is inducted into the cult of spirit. At least theoretically.

Hopefully that's crazy enough that that makes sense.

>>49847956
You misunderstood my meaning i think. I was saying the inverse.

While behe guard might want to steal fist gear.

Fists would not want to steal 'impure' tech from guard.

Or did i misunderstand you?

>>49848153
Ah, gotcha. But they may well have some STCS or relics stashed?
Or how about this:
The worlds are Dark Mechanicum, which in the AU is actually decently tame because they need to keep the Imperial Army supplied and Behemoth Guard vehicles are great, but may also eat guardsmen to repair themselves.
The Dark Mechanicum, on the other hand, still uses the STCs. Sure, some of the STC designs call for human sacrifice, but they also make plain old Chimeras and Rhinos. This is particularly due to the fact that the BG draws all the crazies.

So maybe that's what they strike. And the Dark Mechanicum consider calling for help, but the closest aid is Iron Hearts and Behemoth Guard who will probably take them over. So they hold off.

>>49848807
That makes a lot more sense. I forgot that the Dark Mechanicus is still a thing separate from Gengrat's cult.

I'm drafting up a few ideas about an Eyes of the Warmaster champion who is responsible for stalling the Crusade by revealing the loyalists' own tech Heresy to them and organises the defense of Gryphonne. Lord Vicarus, Face of the Faceless, basically the personal stand-in for the Warmaster. Kinda the Tarkin to Enoch's Vader.

>>49849859
Nice. I'm really looking forward to seeing what comes out.

I think it also might be good to have the Behemoth Guard be a major part of the relief force as part of an attempt to take the forges for their own, which creates tension with the Lord Vicarious and hampers the Dark Imperium a bit. That's part of what let's the loyalists think it's working and part of how they can recover quite a bit.

Might also be cool is the Broken Blades are able to establish a permanent hold on one of the minor worlds closer to the East, which they manage to do specifically by ignoring demands from some of the legions.
It let's them be more self sufficient at the price of pissing off some powerful people.

>>49850381
> gaining 1 world for the cost of pissing off powerful people
Thats objectively a bad idea. They rely on donations of material and volunteers of space marines.

Even a whole sector (if they coud defend it) probably wouldnt be worth it.

Not to mention its been said they already control a handful of worlds.

>>49847956
>Where are these forgeworlds?
Gryphonne is smack dab in the middle of Tempestus. Zhao-Arkkad is a bit west. Graia is practically inside the Dark Imperium, behind the Iron Hearts' fortress worlds.

>>49850485
Fair point.

>>49850485
>>49850582
Might be cool then if they did manage to establish a fortress or two, if only to give us something to keep fighting about in the next few crusades. Emphasize that the Dark Imperium is plagued by some of the same innefficiencies as the OU Imperium and all that.

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>>49850582

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>>49850485
>Thats objectively a bad idea
That's pretty much the criteria for whether or not something fits 40k. The Emperor is basically a paragon of how to be a really shitty tuler.

>>49850799
Yeah i agree. Maybe they secure a new world or subsector and a brotherhood puts down roots.

>>49850984
While yes. I feel like his ineptitude is the opposite of plot armour. In so far as if the story was written before the game / codices i think it would be more internally consistent and characters in large more reasonable

>>49846659
>>49846631
Fists guy here, this could be a cool spot to show off the tech inquisition, i cant remember the name we thought up for them. Aswell as the infighting between machine cult and fists of mars. Perhaps during point 5 the inquisition/fists start atempting to forcibly pacify the magos which would obviously snowball into big problems

>>49852508
Name for tech Inquisition. I propose Ministry of Steel.

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>>49852851
Ordo Ferrum

>>49852851
I wholly support this name.

>>49852508
>>49851091
Perhaps part of how the Broken Blades acquire the territory is by being the ones out there and fortifying it while everyone else is squabbling about the details.

I'm thinking the two main legions in this one are going to be the Scions and the Fists, with everyone else present as independent forces. The Jade Empire forces have a general directive from High Command to recover technology and aid in the establishment of fortresses, but are not expected to garrison them.
Not sure what the mission profile for the Angels, Hammers, Paladins, etc is like.

So I'm thinking this gets into a pissing contest between the Scions and the Fists about who's jurisdiction they're to be under and as things proceed, it turns out that they're only able to keep a region that they'd developed for logistics purposes and had been given to the Broken Blades because neither the Scions nor the Fists considered the area all that important.
Hopefully that makes sense. I feel like that was incoherent.

>>49853083
I was going to post this later because it is both incomplete, a wip, and im forced to do it from memory which means ill inevitability screw it up. Buuuut.

Initial list of brotherhoods in the broken blades

>death masons
Specialise in fortification amd iron cage scenarios
>knights tempestus
Highly pretigeous and arguably "elite" brotherhood. Known for both military and politcal clout.
>knights radiant
Founded by rogue paladins. Very idealistic, but not open to blackshields
>the ardent blades
Known for religious ferver and open worship of the "God-Emperor"
>dark hunters
Founded by blackshields for blackshields. Known in modern times for unparalleled star maps and use of lost routes. (Obviously Eldar and the like have equal to or better maps, just not loyalists/traitors)

>>49853083
I think I understand.
So mainbody is vigil and fist.
Others have own goals.
They cant resolve disputes but in the meantime BB start erecting fortress worlds in "unimportant" areas.

>>49853453
Other brotherhood concepts
>steel wardens
>sons of dawn
>knights valiant
>black templars (yes I know but for real there is only so many combinations of words and this fits. Curse you Doc Jobs curse you.)

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>>49853083
The Angels in general would want to use the crusade for individual power. Same goes for navigator houses, knight houses, and regimental guards in Imperium Minorum. Once it was officially declared a Great Crusade, the many Angels of Light chapters would want to earn battle honors to place in their chapter archives. More honor = more power and control back home, absolution for your sins against the God Emperor of Mankind, etc. Most Angels chapters are chartered with express goals, rather than in discrete foundings of OU, so new chapters would be born as well, depending on the promise of new territory in tempestus.

>>49853474
Segmentum Tempestus and Guardian theme?
Tempest Blades
Storm Wardens
Storm Walkers
Storm Lords
Thunder Wolves
Lightning Riders
Death Guard
Angels of Absolution
Angels Penitent

Somewhat seriously though:
Phantom Brethren
Adamantine Chain
Sons of the Tempest
Children of the Emperor

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>>49853515
>Basil Logrok, Chapter Master of the Solar Angels
Recruited from the Varangiran heartlands as boy, Logrok rose quickly among the Comitatenses of the Illuminators chapter. From the Illuminators he learned the destructive power of flame, and from the Comitatenses he learned the importance of discipline. After proving himself as 3rd Captain in the 8th Great Crusade against the Warp Raider's vile piracy, Basil Logrok was granted a successor chapter. For recruitment, he would be given fresh colonies in the Exodite worlds that had been abandoned during the Commorite Civil War as the exodites flocked to the new xenos Empire. Fresh agriworlds would be worked by serfs from the vastly populous Varangiran heartlands of Imperium Minorum. Chapter Master Logrok named his chapter the Solar Angels, and in the wake of the dying and disappearing primarchs, he became one of the most well known tactical theorists in history.

"The average response time of an unenhanced human is 250 milliseconds. On a flat landscape, and on a planet of Terran proportions, the average distance to the horizon is 5 kilometers. If they are elevated, it is much further. If the have auspex, it is much further. To truly surprise an enemy on such terrain, one must travel that five kilometers in that 250 milliseconds. That requires a speed of 72,000 kilometers per hour. Our best landspeeder patterns have a top speed of 375 kilometers per hour. These numbers simply do not favor the attacker.

An enemy will always know that you are coming. The question is, how long do you let them know before you strike, and is that enough time for them to devise a plan that will best your own?"

-Chapter Master Basil Logrok, Records of the 10th Crusade.

>>49805965
Other than maybe the splinter that flew off when Romulus gave Enoch the middle finger, maybe. Unless you were referring to chaos-allied warbands and not just rogue powers.

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>>49853693

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>>49853693
>>49853733
inspiration pic

Combat Doctrine: GOTTA GO FAST

>>49853581
>storm lord
Is actually the title of the elected dictators ref my post about how the broken blades work so that might be awkward.

Yea the naming conventions i was using for the "major" brotherhoods were based largely off their founding.

The broken blades draw a lot from their linage as knights errant. Likewise they are defined by their purpose or environment.

Adamantine chain is good. I think children of the emperor is clunky. It sounds wrong.

Sons of the Tempest is alright but Storm wardens is a better name. And we dont want to go overboard or else we end up with space wolves.

>>49853693
Logrok rose quickly
>log
>rock
With a name like that im surprised he didnt sink.

>5km to horizon
>uses unenhanced reaction time
Wouldnt that mean his theoretical enemy has unenhanced sight also? So really you could get much much closer depending on terrain/angle of the sun/size and speed of attackers
Probably overthinking.

>>49854026
>>log
>>rock
It's a really lazy corruption of Lodbrok, a famous viking dynasty. The Varangirans are space vikings.

>>49854067
>lodbrok
Thats the old fella that gets killed by snake pit yeah? His sons go on to invade england in retribution?

Been a while since history class.

>one of my first rpg characters was hrothgar lodbrok
>he went on to become a semi divine being ala planeswalker.
>his theme song was based off spongebob squarepants.

>who growls like a bear and fights with his fists
>HROTHGAR LOD-BROK

Jesus the memories

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>>49854619
>who growls like a bear and fights with his fists
>HROTHGAR LOD-BROK

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>>49854619

>>49850961
Oh shit, Zhao-Arkadd is inside the Eldar Empire.

Right then, considering where these worlds are, if we want to go with the late game schism idea it would also be suspicious that the Crusade pushed for Graia and Zhao-Arkadd before heading to Gryphonne. Maybe people in the high command of the Mechanicus/Vigil contributions to the war put forward that the gains from these worlds were much greater, and they were far better fortified, so both the element of surprise and the full power of the Crusade would be required to take them.

It then becomes apparent that in actual fact the Mechanicus were so eager to get to Graia is because it's covered in stuff that various heretek cults want to study.

>>49856061
Alternatively, maybe all three worlds are attacked, but a much smaller force is sent to Gryphonne and the campaign there stretches on, with the invaders becoming trapped on the surface, engaged in a bloody defensive battle against reinforcements from the Dark Imperium.

The reluctance of high authorities to send additional forces back to Gryphonne after Zhao-Arkadd and Graia are mostly taken is what makes the Broken Blades and a few other chapters super suspicious that something is up.

>>49856086
This sounds good imo.

Character blurb for Eyes guy incoming, should be up as soon as I get home.

I just realized that I never saved those Scions characters I made a couple threads ago. Anyone happen to have them?

>>49857421
Kilgrave and the like? I don't, but I could dig for you. It's annoying the threads aren't properly archived, but I remember a site that archived them.

>>49856812
Lord Commander Vicarus Tyran, Legion Praetor of the Eyes of the Warmaster (aka: Death's Shadow, Lord of Lies, Face of the Faceless, the Black Angel):

Vicarus Tyran is an ancient warrior even by the standards of Astartes, serving directly under the Warmaster during the Great Heresy. The Primarch's finest pupil in the arts of deception, Vicarus has been the face of the Warmaster for over ten thousand years now, commanding the Eyes of the Warmaster with methodical precision.

A consummate tactician and duelist, Vicarus was known throughout much of the Old Imperium even before the days of the Heresy, and his skill at arms and cold efficiency resulted in many thinking of Tyran as less an individual than a weapon of his Primarch's personal armoury. As of M42, Vicarus is one of the most powerful and influential figures in the galaxy, serving as High Lord alongside Lord Punitor Enoch the Relentless, his authority second only to that of [REDACTED] himself. He controls a vast network of spies and assassins that work tirelessly in the defense of the Dark Imperium and its Emperor.

In battle, Lord Vicarus wields the Crozius Infernum, a Crozius of smoking obsidian, the imperial eagle at its head possessing four rather than two wings, forming a cross-section. The helmet of his shadowy artificer armour is fashioned to appear as a white, blemish-less simulacrum of a gaunt human face, disturbingly smooth and utterly expressionless.

The Lord Commander has been involved in most major campaigns fought by the Dark Imperium, whether as aggressors or defenders, and has become a singularly accursed figure. During the 10th Crusade, it is suspected that his agents were responsible for the uncovering of tech-heresies within the Crusade's leadership and the fracturing of the war effort, and it was by his authorization that the Burning of Gryphonne came to pass.

>>49857766
Would it be crazy to say that, after attaining the title of Warmaster, REDACTED passes on the title of Spymaster to Vicarus?

>>49857687
That'd be great. I need to get in the habit of putting things on the wiki as I write them.

>>49857845
I could see it.

I bet the Warmaster still has his own agents in even deeper shadow, but being Emperor means you delegate, so someone else gotta be Spymaster.

Fists guy here, it's 2:30 am i can't sleep and my brain needs something to while i float in this jar.

anyone want to know anything about fists?

>>49858160
Have any ideas for some Fists characters? Would be interesting to have some idea of Marcus' equerry/second in command during the Crusade.

>>49858160
What are their successor chapter equivalents like?

How are their deployments organized?

>>49858160
How do they feel about the other crusader states?

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>>49857766
Boosh.

>>49858196
>>49858261
>>49858292
well a wrote a bunch of stuff and while checking the wiki i accidently closed the thread and lost all my writing.

so tldr version will have to do

>>49858196
Marcus 1st friend in his legion is a high ranking techmarine who shows him around imperium tech and they have a bro mance as he teaches marcus about stuff and marcus blows this dudes mind by improving it.

>>49858261
the master of X plant thing is their version of chapters but i don't have any good ideas for one right now, although i think doc wanted to make a group that specializes in titan so he should do that
i dont know shit about deployment

>>49858292
Marcus bought into the myths about his brother like 70% of the time, as such those who are demonised in myth he didn't like and people like alexios who talk about how great they are Marcus liked. he thought raydon was a great guy and looked up to him since raydon helped him out alot when marcus was found

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>>49858261
>>49858561
forgot old pic

oh and Master of X planet not plant

>>49854026
A lot of those names were jokes, pulling from OU chapters. Children of the Emperor = Emperor's Children.

In all seriousness, though...
>"Angels Penitent"
The Angels Penitent are an Angels of Light aligned Broken Blades Brotherhood. They are a deeply religious lot. Brothers take oaths of service to atone for sins real or imagined.
Upon arrival, they write out a confession of their sins and an account of their old place, which they then burn. The ashes are used to coat their plate with a layer of grey-black upon which they write their new oaths.
The brothers are particularly fond of flame weapons, which are viewed as part of a firey cult of redemption.
They also place a great deal of importance on the process of the forge, seeing in metallurgy and smithing a parallel process to their own purification.
These meditations in the forge also have a practical purpose, aiding the Brotherhood in being self sufficient.

>>49858561
If I decide to redo the Titan Marchers, they could be the masters of a forgeworld specialized in Titans. Probably won't be for a while though.

>>49858561
>Deployment
I mean when they go on crusade, how is it organized?

The Angels seem to be very medieval crusader, with individual chapter masters showing up and seeking glory.

The Jade Empire centrally manages it, sending forces and giving them specific objectives.

I imagine that the Storm Kingdoms rally around a charismatic lord and form a small number of large hosts, but nothing has been written yet, so that's my guess.

>Another question
How is the Forgespace organized? Is it a feudal kind of deal? A centralized state? A loose confederation?

>>49858696
>Silent Brotherhood
The Silent Brotherhood is a Jade Empire aligned Broken Blades Brotherhood. It serves as one of the primary places brothers who fall to the Legion Curse are sent. I need to pull up the details on that, but basically, this is the white clad death company.
Brothers are in various states of the rage, so it ranges from Flesh tearer to Black Rage levels of RIP AND TEAR. In some cases, brothers are shipped out in stasis caskets.
The brotherhood is unusual in that it is managed by a small number of Astartes and mortals which remain in orbit while dropping pods of raging battle brothers.

Brothers in earlier stages of the madness are silent hunters and Rangers, preparing the way for their blood mad brethren to come.

This brotherhood is fleet based and stalks the spaces between stars.

keeping the thread alive

>>49858866
Alright, so Sky Serpents Curse:
Modeling it on a combination of BA and SW stuff, I'm thinking it has two phases.
>Red Hunger
This is your red thirst equivalent. All Sky Serpents have these violent urges, which, in their case takes the form of a feral blood-hunger.
Normally it is controlled through the sacrificial rituals of the legion, which takes a number of forms including offerings of specific body parts, like hearts and heads to the Emperor. They also may take captives specifically to sacrifice or collect grisly trophies. It also involves private shedding of one's own blood. This gives them a way to deal with the Red Hunger. Rituals involving drinking blood and consuming the dead are seldom officially sanctioned beyond a communion type ritual that I need to come up with a name for. Unofficially, reports of strange behaviors persist. The communion ritual is also practiced in modified form by the proletariat.

There are varying degrees of self-control, but the rituals keep it more or less in check.

Stage II is different:
>Blood Hunger? Winter Hunger?
During this process, the legionary looses control of themselves on an increasingly permanent basis. This is your Black Rage/Wulfen deal. The Warrior takes on progressively more feline characteristics until they're basically a were-jaguar.
In the early stages, they can still operate more or less functionally in a group, becoming sullen and withdrawn. Most of the time, they can serve effectively as scouts and irregular troops. As it progresses though, they become increasingly feral.
These guys are the white-clad Death's Company. Because of Anshul's dickery, they are increasingly open to warp influence in this state. If nothing is done, they will eventually mutate into warp spawn, though usually they die in battle before this can happen.

>>49860673

The other thing is that they're easier to possess, which the Arms of Asura used to their advantage several times before the Serpents learned to first psychicly shield the Death's Company. More recently, M38? M37? Onwards, though, they've taken to possessing them with Seraphim. This protects them from the touch of Chaos, but it has numerous drawbacks of its own.

>The Death's Company
Open to renaming it.
This operates on a Legion level, with Tzolkin shipping the mad to processing stations when they can. The Death's Company then is parceled out as needed. During a campaign, the mad are usually fielded as ad hoc Death's Companies. This is done so that they can be shielded or possessed.
Given the logistics of all this they're usually shipped in stasis caskets and when a Death's Company unit deploys, a skeleton crew of logisticians and serfs plots the campaign and then unleashes the contents of the hold.

>The Silent Brotherhood
The Silent Brotherhood, then, is a place to send excess Death's Company Astartes and brothers unable to control their Red Hunger.
It allows them to serve as a useful offensive tool.

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I feel like I need to elaborate on the Funerary Guard a bit, so here's a little information.

Originating from the retinue of Saco Funerus himself, the Funerary Guard is a unique force among the Undying Scions in that it consists entirely of the uninterred. This stems from an edict passed down by Funerus during the great crusade mandating that his bodyguards be flesh and blood, not steel and preservative liquid.
The primary function of the Funerary Guard is to guard the casket of their primarch, though they fulfill numerous secondary purposes, such as maintaining the history of their legion and policing successor chapters for malignancy.
Because the clerics of the Funerary Guard are all uninterred, they are completely immune to the influences of the void dragon. Because of this they were instrumental in beating back the necrons during the necropolis uprising, and to this day are ever vigilant for the legions of the dead.

>>49861231
Actually, do we have names for the honor guards of the legions?

>>49862470
The Knights Exemplar dont have a group name but members are called Knight-Protector.

They did have a group name but it has been repurposed elsewhere and the replacement name isnt great

>>49862470
I'm sure we've got a few.

I remember it being mentioned that Kashaln had no set honour guard. He allowed Marines that had excelled recently to accompany him in battle or march several paces behind him during displays of splendor.

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>>49862470
Angels' honor guard is called the Pantheon. It has seven members named after the colors of the rainbow. In later eras they have nobody to honor guard so they're the leaders of the 7 most important chapters.

The Red Angel: I wrote this guy a while back but i cant remember anything
The Orange Angel: >>49853693
The Yellow Angel: yet unnamed head of the Illuminators
The Green Angel: Head of the Crypt Vultures whose name I forgot
The Blue Angel: Ionnas Komnene of the Gryphonwing
The Purple Angel: Eulodius Motherfuckin Rex of the Angels of Light

I should really save stuff more often.

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>>49861231

>>49862470
Aodhán's honour guard were originally the Davidian Knights, a rank achieved only through feats of exceptional valour and skill. 'Davidian' was a sort of vague term, as it essentially referred to those closest to the Primarch, and the commanders of each chapter were Davidians also. They used a precognitive drug from Nusku during combat to enhance their focus and reflexes and were generally pretty lethal in CQC.

In M42, the Davidians are the ten dudes that run each 'official' Tuatha of Negators. Aodhán rarely leaves Commorragh with an escort anymore, but when he does, it will either be his psyker court, or it will basically just be a posse of his upper crust bros - just imagine a whole unit of Archons and Succubi basically.

Minor prompt: If you had to use any of the existing Primarch models as a base for a conversion of your Primarch, which would it be, and why?

>>49862943
I'd probably use Pert for Saul, but it's far from ideal.

>>49862943
I don't think any of the canon primarchs are very similar to Alexios.

>>49862470
Gengrat has his nine forge attendants. They have the right to enter Gengrat's personal forge unbidden. They get set up with nice forges, but originally they would either be overs33ing their own campaign or they would be at Gengrat's side with their shiniest new creations. At first these were kill-servitors, custom automata, and tanks, but as time goes on, things get weirder. Even now, when Gengrat awakens Ancalagon for war, he is attended by his cleverest sons and their creations.

>>49862943
I guess I'd use Russ for Aodhán. His armour is fatter than Aodhán's but he's got an appropriate pose and features. You could probably convert the axe in his off hand into something else pretty easily.

Perfection would be Russ's head, armour somewhere between Sigvald the Magnificent and Russ, Sigismund's pose, pic related sorta sword.

Perty is a perfect base for Rubinek IMO.

Absolutely no idea who I'd use for Anshul. Girlyman maybe.

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>>49863109
Wow I'm retarded.

Lost my picture AND my name.

>>49862668
>rainbow guard

>>49862943
No idea what the Primarch models are so no idea who would best fit Klaus and Raydonanon

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>>49863631
There aren't really any Primarchs as tacticool as Raydon, but it's still probably Corvus that suits him best.

He's the only one in a gunfighter-ish post, and with some deft conversion work you could get him looking like he's jumping down rather than descending on a jump pack.

Back to the 10th Crusade.

Are there any successor chapters that people would particularly want involed? Where would you see them fighting, what would their greatest contributions be?

>>49864911
So far as Jade Empire forces go, I'm thinking that it looks something like:

8 Tzolkin (~20,000 Astartes)
Each with about 10,000 Thule Rime Guard or similar Solar Auxiliae pattern Chapter Serfs. (200,000 combat serfs)

Forgeworld Tindalos
Demi-Legio from Cybernetica Legio Phasma-- Maniples of robots
Task force from Legio Seraphicus 'The Hounds of Tindalos', including the Reaver King in Yellow, Warhounds Winter Hunger and Call of the Void, and Warlord Gate of Carcosa.
Assorted Skitarii forces

Forgeworld Incaladion
Reductor Temple Bhalavastra
Task force from Legio Fureans
Assorted Skitarii

2 Mendicant Reductor Orders

18 Guard Regiments (Another 500,000 mortal soldiers)
Unsubstantiated rumors also place 3 White Ships with members of the Legion Librarius and "Seraphim" in Tempestus during this time


How does that sound?

Too much? Too little?

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>>49864911
>>49865667
numbers r fun

From the Angels themselves:

>Solar Angels Chapter
lead by Basil Logrok, the Orange Angel
'Tactical Geniuses' who embrace the need for speed. Basil Logrok is an upstart looking to prove himself, and their goal in the 10th crusade is to capture and hold territory for themselves to live off of.
~1,000 Astartes consisting of 4 Comitatus companies and 6 Cataphract companies plus Basil Logrok's veteran HQ

Comitatus companies are designed to fortify and hold ground. They consist of 6 tactical cohorts, 2 devastator cohorts, and 2 assault cohorts, plus support from the chapter armory and orbital drop pods. Cataphract companies consist of 6 bike cohorts, 2 landspeeder cohorts, and 2 scout veteran cohorts. Cohorts are lead by

>Crypt Vultures Chapter
Lead by Herodotus Vulturus, the Green Angel
The Crypt vultures are codex non-compliant. They forged their own battledoctrines in the 9th crusade against the Necrons, where improvisation and survival were one and the same. Instead of the Codex standard of bikes, the Crypt Vultures primarily use jump packs and guile.
~1200 Astartes consisting of 4 comitatus companies and 8 cataphract companies, employing Assault cohorts instead of bikes.

~10 other lesser chapters who are puppets of the two above or of one of the other pantheon

>>49863631
Rainbow guards are cool. I like Rainbows, and they're the Angels of *Light* after all.

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>>49866198
From Imperium Minorum

A metric shitload of Varangiran guardsmen.
Ordo Constructor support
IM's navy

From the Grey Stars and misc
Abbots of the Ordo Malcador, Abbesses of the Silent Sisterhood, and the Navigator Houses would want to set up new abbeys, so they'd send what they could too.

>>49864911
How about an officially sent Custodian detachment out to set up some new beacons?
If only to allow the Custodes to wreck face on the battlefield.

Also what do people think of the idea >>49844960
With an angry Custodian serving as notional head of the Broken Blades, a vestige of Malcador.

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>>49866534
>How about an officially sent Custodian detachment out to set up some new beacons?
>If only to allow the Custodes to wreck face on the battlefield.
I'm for it, see >>49866308

>With an angry Custodian serving as notional head of the Broken Blades, a vestige of Malcador.
I'm not for it. IMO it should be a Knight Errant dude.

>>49866534
The broken blades are ruled by a council of watch captains and influencial brotherhood representatives. Who at times select a single dictator to serve a term.

>>49867996
>>49868086
That works too. Those Custodian models have me trying to insert them everywhere. >_<

At least I'm honest about it?

Custodes shouldn't be used in the battle. They are too important and the crusader states have no way to reproduce them. Every loss is permanent. You aren't going to send them into the most dangerous area in the universe. Even if you did have the power to tell them to.

They MIGHT send one of their own after the crusade to command the beacons set up.

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>>49868745
>They are too important
...for what? They're basically unemployed hobos that nobody has the heart to call obsolete.

>>49868839
The fact that they are far superior to Astartes means they can actually defend the beacons and the Emperors tomb, and the Senate.

They are politically powerful via proxy.

If people think of them as unemployed hobos we should just kill them all off and be done with it.

>>49868105
>Those Custodian models
Tell me more

>>49868745
+1 this

>>49868903
>If people think of them as unemployed hobos we should just kill them all off and be done with it.
I think they're more interesting as a sad relic of the past, and a constant reminder of what has been lost.

>>49869075
then again they dont belong on a battlefield but guarding the senate

>>49869119
One or two idealists might slip away but largely I agree.

>>49869184
>idealists might slip away
I'd think idealists wouldn't leave the Tomb World of the Big E.

I honestly can't think of something that would be more important to them in the Gap. I could see them bailing on the Beacons to rush to the Tomb Worlds defence, but not this.

Then again, my limited imagination doesn't mean that there isn't a reason. I just don't know what it could be.

>>49869261
sometimes motherfuckers just get bored

>>49869305
... Thats I think a really terrible reason for Custodes of all people to abandon important duties.

Bump. I'll be lurking the thread until I have enough time to contribute.

>>49870094
And of course I forget the nametag. Well, now that I'm using up another post, any requests for writefagging?

>>49870112
S Q U A T S

>>49870112
>>49870218
Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Do um um um

Oh a gathering of Primarchs around M34, they have decided to meet up, and chat, having received 'bad news' of some sort. Preferably not militarily related

>>49870608
Like Uncle Malcador finally kicks the bucket? And they get together for a funeral/wake?

>>49870112
>>49870218
Lel, Hashut chaos marines?

Bamp

>>49870622
I'm fucking up for that.

Hashut has always been the most metal chaos god.

>>49870608
Which Primarchs? Or do they all gather, despite the Heresy?
>>49870218
Might get tricky, but I'll give it a shot. Story, fluff, a report into the details of the Squats?
>>49870622
>>49871716
That would probably be a good new faction.

>>49871792
>>49871716
Well, the Dark Imperium would allow for more minor chaos gods to become more powerful. Perhaps the rampant worship of the Dark Gods even causes more to be born.

Posting summaries of all the Broken Blades brotherhoods I can find so we know where we're at:

>Death Masons
Specialise in fortification and iron cage scenarios. Line-holders who fortify what the Blades take.
>Knights Tempestus
Highly prestigious and arguably "elite" brotherhood. Known for both military and political clout. Most well equipped, has the largest armoured divisions.
>Knights Radiant
Founded by rogue paladins. Very idealistic, but not open to blackshields. Have a combined arms mode of warfare that echoes their parent Legion.
>The Ardent Blades
Known for religious fervour and open worship of the "God-Emperor." Are presided over by a council of Chaplains and a High Confessor. Vehemently anti-psyker and well-practiced in battling daemonkind.
>Dark Hunters
Founded by blackshields for blackshields. Known in modern times for unparalleled star maps and use of lost routes. (Obviously Eldar and the like have equal to or better maps, just not loyalists/traitors). Primarily void combatants, good at boarding actions and scuttling maneuvers.
>Silent Brotherhood
A containment brotherhood for Sky Serpent successor Marines that have over-raged. Shoot cans of angry Marines at people from orbit.
>Knights of MacLior
Masters of the 1v1, many squads don’t even carry bolters, just chainswords and toughened armour. Have lots of power swords for a Broken Blades brotherhood.
>Angels Penitent
Deeply religious brotherhood with a hardon for flamer weapons, blacksmithing, and confessing one's sins loudly and angrily. Aligned to the Angels of Light.

buuuump

>>49870622
I could see a circle of Behemoth Guard types breaking off from the Legion to establish a bunch of warbands devoted to Hashut. They'd drop the biomechanical thing most likely and be more into the heat and strength of the forge.

Also, big Sumerian-style beards on their faceplates.

>>49874655
>sumerians
Criminally underrepresented in fantasy IMO.

>>49868992
>Tell me more

You haven't seen the Prospero stuff?

GW are releasing Silent Sisters and Custodes alongside Thousand Sons stuff.

Yes, Silent Sisters are getting a plastic models before Battle Sisters.

>>49874655
I'm intrigued. What's the deal with Hashut?

shit's slow today

>>49874655
>>49875053
One option is also to add in some ancient near east to the standard Behemoth Guard. Thus far, they've been mostly art deco and German Expressionist in feel with a lot of Pauline spiritual theology masked over with some satanism. But hey, what's satanism if not the dark reflection of the Ancient Near East in all its glory? Besides, Metropolis is heavily Apocalyptic and art deco runs on borrowing design motifs from the ancient world.

Could be that we a few distinct traditions in the Legion, since there's already the idea that the Houses and Grand Companies have distinct specialties, thus a biomechanical end and a Cybernetica end, and a giant machine end.

Either way, I really like the idea of massive forge fanes and ziggurats.

So let's see...
>Hellforge Azazel
To the galactic south of Unholy Terra lies the domain of Azazel, the fiefdom of Forge Tyrant Orban Nefeshezzarti, one of the nine forge attendants of Gengrat Vannevar.
Nefeshezzarti specializes in siege works, raising citadels and rendering them to dust. Not for him is the sheer warp madness of the Abomination Engines or the flesh crafting of some among his brethren. Nefeshezzarti places his trust in steel, adamantium, and big guns. His creations are the macro-engines and the hellforged Ordinatii of the Dark Imperium. Their symbol is a massive bull with curling ram's horns, the Aleph-Tsor of Azazel.


I may change his name.

>>49873106
Wait what.
>Knights Tempestus
They would be most well equipped possibly, but not Armoured divisions. More like terminators and big old power swords
>knights radiant
Are open to Black shields.
>arent anti-psyker. Or rather arent vehemently anti-psyker. The Emperor was a psyker. To hate them would be to hate him.
>Dark Hunters
Arent primarily void combatants

>>49871792
Uh say Xun, Alexios, Kor, Engerand, Raydon and Brain Marcus. But maybe Sarco can't be booted up. Or throw him in too.

>>49876636
Ah shit. Typed up a whole thing and then my phone deleted it. Going to call him Orban Rehovezzar.

(He's supposedly working on a Constantine Bombard to take out the Angels of Light.)

During the 10th crusade, he leads the forces of Azazel against the East, holding off until the call for aid comes in from Stygies, at which point his slab-sided Siege Barques are dispatched.
However, Rehovezzar is more interested in seizing forges than prosecuting offensive action and after his forces drive the loyalists from the forges and their dependents, their actions are little more than a token offensive while they fortify their new holdings. This state of affairs persists despite the urgings of the Lord Vicarious until the Siege of Sidograd-337, where Rehovezzar deploys his full might, bringing the grinding 7 year siege to an end in a matter of months.
The message is clear.

>>49876659
Sarco hasn't been able to move since the battle of Terra. Maybe he can get a few words in during times of great need, but generally he's immobile and only able to perceive things around him.

>>49877106
>Typed up a whole thing and then my phone deleted it.
That happens to me so goddamn often, it's terrible.

>>49876659
>arent anti-psyker. Or rather arent vehemently anti-psyker. The Emperor was a psyker. To hate them would be to hate him.

Most of the OU chapters manage to do this just fine.

Once Marines start thinking of the Emperor as a god they don't generally acknowledge that he was the same as any old psyker. Emperor = god with divine power, psyker = filthy mutant grasping at powers too great for them to control.

>>49877346
Cool. Feel free to write about an order that follows those beliefs, no need to try and poach another anons works though.

>>49877346
Honestly i just didnt envisage them as being anti psyker. Just more preachy and having chaplains.

>>49877530
Not really trying to poach. It just seemed logical. Deeply religious and anti-psyker are generally the same thing in Imperium of Man stuff. The Ecclesiarchy is all about witch hunting, Chaplains were literally created to crack down on psykers within the legions, etc.

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>The 12th Crusade

In the Grey Stars near the western border of Imperium Minorum, an upstart race called the Tau suddenly begins expanding and claiming territory across the stars. Expanding out from their homeworlds of Tau and Tau'n, the xenos begin to encroach upon imperial settlements. Colonial PDFs prove ineffective at holding back the highly advanced technology of the Tau, and many human lives are lost in the name of the Tau's greater good.

In the Imperial Senate on the throne world of Terra Nova, Alexios the White and his angels petition for a united crusade against the xenos upstarts. Anders Kor, who had held himself aloof from the Senate since its founding, came to speak for the Tau. The Primarchs debated the Tau question for many months, Alexios presenting his arguments clearly, and Anders retorting with confident rebuttals. Alexios spoke of many practical concerns, of duty, honor, and the unity of the human race under the God Emperor of Mankind. Anders spoke of morality, of the wrongness of exterminating a species.

As the primarchs debated in the senate, war against the Tau raged on Imperium Minorum's borders. New chapters of Angels were founded, and the Varangiran Guard began entrenching the border worlds. In the border system of Kythera, the Gryphonwing Chapter uncovered the involvement of Blackshield Paladins supporting the Tau military. The Blackshields and their Tau puppets are defeated at Kythera, and word of the Paladins' involvement soon reaches the ears of the Senate.

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>>49878840
Due to the destructive nature of the battle that took place on Terra Nova after Alexios' death, records are unclear as to how or why exactly he was killed. in Imperium Minorum it is said that Anders struck down the White Angel when his treachery was revealed. In most of the crusader states, it is said Anders knew nothing of the treachery of one of his rogue elements, and when Alexios called him a traitor to his face, he lashed out in anger. In some more conspiratorial corners of the galaxy, it is whispered that Alexios threw himself onto Anders' blade, knowing that his death would ignite a war. In the Protectorate of Kor, to even speak of the incident is to incur the wrath of Anders Kor, for regardless of reason, Anders' grief is beyond doubt.

The Angel of Light cohorts who came as Alexios' retinue fell into incomprehensible fury when news of the White Angel's death reached their ears. The first shots were fired by the honor guards outside the senate chamber itself. 19 days of open warfare between the Angels and the Paladins took place on Terra Nova before the Custodes could put a stop to it. The Astartes returned to their crusader states, and as soon as fighting on Terra Nova ended, fighting across the galaxy began.

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>>49878865
The war between the Angels and the Paladins was bloody, gruesome, and costly. Black Paladins and the Tau were pushed back quickly by the rapid assaults of the Angels, but war on the eastern front against the Protectorate did not go as easily. Prolonged naval battles with many losses strained the industrial capacity of both crusader states, and the high lethality of combats strained the recruitment resources of the Astartes and guardsmen alike. Eventually the war becomes far too costly for both sides, and a peace accord is called on Terra Nova by the ruling council of the Jade Empire. The Sky Serpents pressure the two sides into peace by threatening to join the conflict themselves. The terms are twofold: a neutral demilitarized zone is established between the Protectorate and the Angels of Light, and the Tau are exterminated. The homeworlds of Tau and Tau'n are given the Rite of Exterminatus, the surviving Tau are exterminated with callous efficiency, and the Mechanicus claims what it can of the Earth Caste's technology. A small enclave of Tau lead by Shas'O Vior'la Shovah Kais Mont'yr survives in a nomadic flotilla, a people without a home.

>>49878458
Thats not my understanding of the role of chaplains in the OU. I assume youre referring to OU since you include the Ecclessarchy? If not my mistake.

>>49878865
Battle on Terra Nova?

I dont think the retinues of each side would be able to fight each other AND against literally everyone else inc Custodes for 19 days. And if they did they would surely be executed afterwards not just allowed to leave no?

I mean spilling blood on a planet that relies on neutrality would be a capital offence. I can see Kor getting away with it but not anyone else.

Just for consideration.

>>49878880
I like the outline. Few questions though:

Why does Kor agree to those terms? Has he just completely lost the will to resist? Nids showing up force a redeployment?

We still going with the idea that the Warp Raiders and Negators show up and complicate matters?

So then does Alexios die on Terra Nova?

>>49879464
>alexios: i wanna kill the xenos
>anders: no
*fights*
>alexios: i still wanna kill the xenos
>sky serpents: stop fighting or we kill both of you
>alexios: b-b-but xenos
>kor: well i can fight for my morals and risk losing and have the xenos die but if i win the xeno live... or i can give up and guarentee the xenos die...
*kor announces truce*

Youre right it doesnt make any sense at all. Wouldnt that mean that everyone who died died for nothing?

>>49879464
If there is no chaos then is it even a great crusade?

>>49879292
>Thats not my understanding of the role of chaplains in the OU. I assume youre referring to OU since you include the Ecclessarchy? If not my mistake.

Chaplains were created, first in the Word Bearers and Blood Angels, as people whose specific job is to watch over the psykers in the legion and make sure they didn't do anything untoward.

In 40k chaplains aren't really ecclesiarchical, as most Codex Compliant Astartes in OU don't believe the Emperor is a god.

>I mean spilling blood on a planet that relies on neutrality would be a capital offence. I can see Kor getting away with it but not anyone else.
The idea is that they don't get away with it. Both crusader states' reputations are tarnished, it's a major diplomatic incident that starts a *war.*

>>49879464
>Why does Kor agree to those terms? Has he just completely lost the will to resist? Nids showing up force a redeployment?
He's got a lot of grief over the fratricide and the war is taxing. He didn't want war in the first place, either. He was trying to stop one.

>We still going with the idea that the Warp Raiders and Negators show up and complicate matters?
I think that happens in the 8th crusade now.

>So then does Alexios die on Terra Nova?
yeah sure i guess it seems neat to me.

>>49879526
Blackshield Paladins = Chaos

Anders Kor is a filthy traitor

>>49879512
Kor and the Angels both face existential threats. When I say the war is taxing, I mean they're grinding their fists to stumps against each other. Reserves of reserves of reserves are killed. Imperium Minorum starts handing lasguns and helmets to 8 year olds and shit. With the Jade Serpents threatening to step in, they effectively force the peace under threat of death.

>>49879512
Wasn't sure just how irrationally idealistic Kor was going to be on this one. Figured Kor might try for a 'we'll stand down if you spare the Tau'.

>>49879528
>>49879558
Makes sense.


Sounds like this was 10,000 years coming and had the Serpents stayed out of it, it would have resulted in the destruction of both sides.

>>49879535
Sparks a war to weaken them for #13.

>>49879528
>history of Chaplains
The more you know.

>killing on terra nova
Still not 100% on this idea. Not that it cant work, but i think it could be improved by having the custodes / others coming down on the groups like a ton of bricks. Either seizing them and booting them off the planet near immediately or subjugating and executing any who drew blood. The survivors being those who didnt manage to actually kill anyone.

>>49879894
Could be part of why nobody knows what happened all that clearly. Kor just GTFO and the Custodes massacred pretty much everyone else.

>>49879894
>Still not 100% on this idea. Not that it cant work, but i think it could be improved by having the custodes / others coming down on the groups like a ton of bricks. Either seizing them and booting them off the planet near immediately or subjugating and executing any who drew blood. The survivors being those who didnt manage to actually kill anyone.

I'm down with this.

>>49879512
This.

I feel like Kor would accept the dissolution of the Tau Empire but also commence operations to evacuate their worlds. The Tau would probably exist in a sizable form within ten Protectorate, but their society would probably have changed significantly.

I think it would be cool if the flotilla forces that roam the Grey Stars are lead by Farsight and pretty much have no purpose but killing Imperium Minorum stuff. They could have abandoned humane warfare completely and have veered into DEldar type abominable tech made purely to end populations as painfully and gruesomely as possible.

>>49879963
Yeah, or maybe because there is only a handful of survivors (that were combatants i imagine the others just stood on being like wtf is this actually happening). And those that recount their tales have massive biases.

>>49880085
What about.

>the decree
Immediate ceasefire
Tau and any planets are scheduled for exterminatus in 2 years. The extermintus will be carried out by serpents. With a delegate of each to oversee.
Tau and any subordinate races are declared exiles of the Crusader States (x y and z)
The Protectorate offers formal citizenship to tau and subordinates
A demilitarized zone is to be established from planet a to planet b. Authority to construct falls to fists of mars. Each side is allowed X amount of garrison troops within certain distance.

So essentially kor has 2 years to evac as many as possible. Bwfore the extermintus begins. The tau arent legally allowed out of the protectorate or rather are only allowed to legally live in the protectorate.

A demilitarised zone is established by fists which allows them first dibs on tech but they will he overseen by angels and paladins so they cant just go wild.

Likewise serpents will conduct the exterminus to represent a neutral force. Again overseen to ensure they dont bungle the job.

Thoughts?

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>>49880085
>>49880098
>>49880367
I appreciate this feedback and the fact that people are building on what I posted.

This is good stuff.

>>49880367
Sounds good to me.

So we have two types of Tau now. Protectorate Tau and nomadic enclave Tau. I kinda like the idea of enclave Tau going back to their warlike roots and becoming interstellar marauders whose lives revolve around making the Imperium Minorum pay in blood.

>>49881080
I like this.

It might confuse or annoy people though initially. The enclave tau would be very different to what most people think of the tau to be.

They could still be scientific and such but i think they wouldnt be able to advance at anywhere near the same rate. But it wluld be interesting to explore the tech trees they do follow as their needs and environment are vastly different

>>49881080
Sounds good to me. Do the Enclave Tau have Ethereals?

>>49880367
This sounds good to me.
So it seems to me that the Serpents carry all this out with varying degrees of Senatorial oversight.

The Serpents are going to request salvage and mineral rights as recompense for their expenditures including deployment of forces to serve as guarantors of the peace.

I'm imagining this serves as a chance for the Serpents to recover war relics and star ships. (And Tau-tech)
Some of this, they regift to the Paladins and Angels to curry favor, but they keep a lot if it.

>>49882722
I had originally given most of salvage to the fists to assist with construction costs. But yeah it makes sense to pay the serpents as well. I think though because of the oversight it would be hard for anyone to take something that would be obviously owned by either faction

>>49882722
Good question IRT etherals.

Rather than do they, id ask WOULD they. What do we gain from them being there or them not being there. How does it change them, i think we should explore either the most organic version or alternatively compare the two ajd choose which offers more to the setting.

>>49882741
I was thinking the Serpents, being clever, would get it hashed out ahead of time to the effect that anything left in the zone was to be forfeit as the penalty for waging war without Senatorial consent.

I'm imagining the Serpent diplomatic Corps is having the time of their lives inserting loopholes and conditions for them to exploit to ensure they get as much cool loot out of this as possible. After all, they served the interests of all, so don't they deserve something for their time and effort?

So in terms of major gifts, the Jade Empire returns a few battle barges, dozens of superheavy tanks, and a few relic weapons to each side.

The Scions receive the Battle Barge Unyielding Will (ex-Endymion).
The Hammers would get one.
The Senate and Custodes get an Overlord.
The Fists get a bigger cut for being there.

The Serpents aren't clear just what they get out of it, after all, not all the hulls and wrecks can be returned to active service, but observers note nearly a dozen new battle barges, and at least one new Gloriana in service, with rumors of novel rail-gun based weaponry appearing at all levels.
Similarly, a large number of superheavy tanks are estimated to have been recovered, later making an appearance on the battlefields of the 13th Crusade.

>>49882800
Hmm. Well, I think given the situation the fleet would be decently cohesive even without the Ethereals. They're already used to the sort of cooperation required, as opposed to say Battlestar Galactica.

I'd imagine that without the Ethereals to mediate, the Fire Caste would take over, in part because the fleet seems military, though I could see the Air Caste having an influence. Perhaps an eventual Army/Navy schism?

>>49882958
>Senatorial consent
Is this a thing? I dont want this to be a thing. But likewise dont care too much if it is and is just ignored.

>loopholes
Mfw you think Knight Errant degrees are gonna have loopholes. You underestimate me sir

>tau
What if.. without the etherals they lack the coherency as so it functions more as a dictatorship of the navy with fire caste being seen as consuls for the people.

Or would their caste system fall away alltogether

>>49883198
>Diplomacy
Was just spitballing pretexts. The loopholes were mostly some sort of shorthand for "political shenanigans ensue". Mostly I'm saying that the Jade Empire negotiators see the opening to take advantage of the situation and do. Notionally they have the possibility to:
1. Salvage all kinds of cool shit
2. Secure mineral rights across a huge swathe of space
3. Keep an eye on both the Angels and Paladins
4. Recover some cool Tau-tech
5. Foster ties with other legions and the Senate through gifts
6. Weaken their rivals
7. Look like heroes while doing it

>>49883314
If this is reference my no loophole comment i was kidding. I like to think my lawyer skills are topnotch but im a rookie.

Anywhoo
>salvage junk
100%
>secure mineral rights
Tye demilitarized zone wouldnt belong to anyone. But i like the idea of "neutral" "outposts" that are set up by "third parties" that also happen to take advantage of natural resources for mining. I mean youre there anyway right?
>keep an eye on both
Yeah but the oversight would be focused primarily the other way
>recover tau tech
Not impossible, in fact likely however should be difficult or limited reference the angels and paladins oversight
>foster ties
Nothing says friendship like a threat to exterminate both sides if they dont agree to your demands
>weaken rivals
At this point they did that themselves desu.
>look like heroes
Can serpents look any other way? I mean unless a KE is in the room i get the jist they are one of the defaults people look too.

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midnight bumpu

>>49882722
>Do the Enclave Tau have Ethereals?

If we're going with the idea that they've become merciless raiders, then probably not.

>High Captain Leonid Barone of the Knights Tempestus
Raised upon the harsh feudal world of Ornstaine, Leonid's youth was one of constant adversity, the mortal populace of his planet haunted constantly by the widening Warp-fissues that existed upon its moon. Leonid was inducted into the Knights Tempestus when the brotherhood made planetfall to cleanse Ornstaine of the influence of Chaos, and the young boy - then a squire to his provincial lord - caught the Astartes' eye with his courage and loyalty.

Talented in the arts of the blade, quick-witted, and driven to go above and beyond the calling of the Space Marine, Leonid quickly rose through the ranks of the brotherhood, achieving the rank of High Captain during the Siege of Perfida, where he was responsible for avenging his predecessor's death upon the vile Judgement Bringers lord that held the world's central keep.

Leonid's sterling reputation would eventually lead to his appointment as Errant Commander to the combined armies of the Broken Blade during the 10th Great Crusade. It was he who rallied those loyalist forces untainted by tech-heresy on Graia and uncovered the abhorrent machinations of those within the Mechanicus that would see the Crusade subverted to their ends. In the latter phases of the campaign, during the long withdrawal from the furthest worlds of Segmentum Tempestus, it was at his decree that the Iron Meridian was established - a thin line of fortress worlds and defensive outpost manned by Broken Blades battalions stretching across the breadth of the Segmentum.


Thoughts?

Actually, something else I just thought of.

Who, as of M42, is the current Legion Praetor/Lord Marshal/Chapter Master etc of each of the original Legions? Why do they have the role? What awesome things have they done?

>>49888214
I like it. How much support do you think the Blades get from the Scions?

Also, do you have those successor chapters you wrote up for the Scions saved? I want to write some more but I'd like to know what we already have.

>>49888214
Seems good to me.

>>49889203

Hmmm. I think the throne of Tepectitlan is left empty, Xun is still the head of state since they figure he will eventually be able to manifest as an Imperial equivalent of a daemon primarch.

In his place, there is a mortal regent who is basically the head of infrastructure, I think.
But really the bureaucracy is integrated with the legion like Ultramar was to be.

Let me get back to you.

>>49889430
Yep, I've got them all saved. I'll post them when I get home.

I imagine since the Vigil and the Forgespace are the driving forces for the 10th Crusade, they'd be offering the two largest bundles of support. My guess is that the 10th Crusade is divided up something like so: 25% Vigil forces, 30% Forgespace forces, 10% Sky Serpents successors, 10% Angels successors, 5% Storm Kingdom successors, 20% Broken Blades.

Outside of the 10th Crusade I imagine the Vigil has the most successor chapters operating within Segmentum Tempestus, simply because they're so close to it. Second place is probably Imperium Minorum, because they have by far the most successors but they're divided between multiple fronts, whereas the Vigil is all about holding the Tempestus gap.

>>49889624
Interesting. Surely there's a Praetor or some equivalent in supreme military command of the actual Legion (but not the entire Empire), right?

>>49890253
Yeah. There is definitely some sort of Legion Master.
And in real terms, the Empire is run by the space-confucian bureaucracy, which has a whole lot of Astartes. So the ruling council is a bunch of Astartes with some really, really bright humans and mechanicum. It's like the High Lords of Terra, but with vastly different selection criteria.
That's why all their stuff is so integrated. (Oversight is done via having a whole bunch of secret police.)

>>49890503
>Yeah. There is definitely some sort of Legion Master.

Any ideas for his name and fluff?

Also, as requested, Scions successors:

>Adamantine Knights
An oddity among the Scions successors in that, rather than becoming endeared to death, the high number of Interred among the Chapter have resulted in them valuing the gift of life more highly than most of their fellows. Staunch protectors and paragons, the Adamantine Knights boast the largest Terminator detachments out of any Undying Scions successor Chapter.

>White Lions
A relatively young successor Chapter, the White Lions have surprisingly few Interred members for a Scions Chapter. The Lions' historians place great emphasis on the parables of their Primarch's early life, and strive to emulate his prowess as hunters, resulting in a knack for mobile, fast-assault tactics.

>Hands of the Immortal
A fleetbound Chapter with a finely-honed tradition of precise drop pod insertion behind enemy lines. Heavily depleted after the 07th Fist of Mars Battalion and the 01st Talonic Macroclade opened fire upon them during the latter stages of the 13th Crusade, claiming that the Hands were engaged in "tech-heresy of a foul and most subversive nature." The truth of this statement is presently unknown.

>Sentinels
Epitomizing the ethos of the Vigil as a bulwark against Chaos, the Sentinels are masters of defensive tactics, their infantry holding the line with a mixture of prudent decision-making and iron grit while their artillery blasts the enemy into submission from behind.

>>49890849
>Shield Bearers
Fanatics to the cult of the Interred, the Shield Bearers have comparatively few dreadnoughts among them. Their sacred duty is to recall the legends and undying service of those Interred that have been smitten beyond the help of the sarcophagus, each Marine given a name and a livery that continues the legacy of such a fallen Brother, their past lives erased.

>Iron Regents
Even by the standards of other Scions successors, the Iron Regents boast an extraordinary number of Interred Marines, their uninterred a mere skeleton force. They prize the overwhelming strength of the dreadnought, and favour close quarters engagement where this iron-wrought might is most evident, delighting in the superiority of plasteel over flesh. The Iron Regents are quite famous for their use of broad-bladed power glaives, capable of scything effortlessly through several ranks of lesser foes in a single sweep.

>Sin-Eaters
The Sin-Eaters are the result of a rare and highly ironic gene-seed malfunction – many among the Chapter are unable to be properly Interred. Those that can invariably become erratic and strange, requiring the constant supervision and care of their uninterred brothers. On a constant quest to prove themselves, the Sin-Eaters are rarely at full strength, and favour dangerous close-assault tactics. They have a remarkable number of psykers among their ranks for an Undying Scions successor Chapter.

>Dust Striders
The Dust Striders know that flesh is weak, and they seek to transcend it. Viewing their mortal bodies as a mere temporary convenience, they utilize a gratuitous overabundance of rad-weaponry and viral agents, and care little for friendly fire if it means the utter destruction of their foes. Flesh is dust, but plasteel and adamantium endure, so what does it matter if they contaminate their own bodies? To the Dust Striders, their uninterred lives are brief flames to be burned as brightly and fast as possible.

>>49890863
>Avenging Sons
Almost entirely fleetbound, the Avenging Sons have made it their sacred duty to patrol just beyond the borders of Unyielding Vigil territory, keeping a constant watch for the encroachment of traitors and xenos. Their tactics are mostly typical of Undying Scions successors, utilizing large numbers of dreadnoughts alongside support detachments of uninterred heavy weapon teams. They have a particular fondness for Deredeo Pattern dreadnoughts.

>Cyclopes
Recognizable by the sigil of the watchful eye, the Cyclopes are a mystery, somehow specializing in rapid redeployment despite boasting a grand number of Interred brothers even by Scion standards. How they achieve this miracle is as of yet unknown, the Chapter spending much of its time campaigning through the upper Tempestus zone, far from anything resembling a coherent Loyalist command structure, as is the method by which they leave nothing of their foes but fields of dust.

>Tomb Kings
Mostly unremarkable save for their grisly custom of bedecking their dreadnought chassis’ in the bones of their fallen foes, the Tomb Kings are by all accounts a standard example of an Undying Scions’ successor Chapter.

>Talons of Funerus
The Talons of Funerus are subject to a similar gene-seed mutation as their brothers of the Sin-Eaters, unable to Inter their fallen members without risking severe consequences. In the case of the Talons, their Interred almost invariably experience a violent psychic awakening upon integration into the holy sarcophagus. Some do not survive this process, but most simply become living dynamos of crackling psychic energy, their perceptions jerked out of synch with material reality. The Interred of the Talons move with unnatural speed, but, ironically, their bifurcated senses often mean that they react slowly to the events of the mortal world. The Talons of Funerus are engaged in a constant campaign of pre-emptive defence in the upper Tempestus.

>>49890876
>Dragon’s Teeth
[RECORDS EXPUNGED] [EXCOMMUNICATUS HERETICUS] [RECORDS EXPUNGED]

>Death Lords
Lumbering monoliths of blackened plasteel, the Death Lords are characterized for their extreme lack of compassion for the lives of mortals, and have become widely known for the callous efficiency of their planetary cleansing operations. Known to leave few survivors, the Death Lords believe that the Emperor will know his own, and during combat barely distinguish between innocent and sinner, making extensive use of flamers and phosphex weapons.

>Angels Adamantine
Guardians of the Tempestus Gap with an illustrious history of daring drop-pod insertions, the Angels Adamantine are known to almost entirely eschew the use of Devastators and Tactical Squads – the vast majority of uninterred Marines in the Chapter are instead allocated to Assault Squads, disrupting enemy formations while the Chaptere’s Interred blast them into submission with superior firepower.

>>49890894
>>49890876
>>49890863
>>49890849
Thanks.

>Cyclopes
Oh shit.

>>49890894
>Death Lords

Good, good. Every Legion needs an asshole successor chapter.

Who's the current Undying Scions leader by the way?

does literally anyone remember the Red Angel character I wrote several threads ago or should I just make up a new one

>>49890849
Mind is just running really slow today.

>Yue Taijiang
I'm thinking he comes to power fairly recently after having been on the ruling council for a long time. They'd been trying to get him to take the position for a while, but he'd long resisted what essentially ammounted to a desk job coordinating strategy on an Imperial scale. He's one of those top strategic minds in the legion types as opposed to the greatest warrior.
He only took the command after auguries called him out by name and Illuyankas dreamt of him leading the armies of the Empire.
With the beginning of the 13th crusade, it seems his time has come at last.

>>49892612
Red Angel, huh? That's name that comes up often in 40k. It's one of Angron's titles, Sanguinius has been referred to as such and I remember a Blood Angel possessed by a demon in one of the HH books being called that.

I don't remember the character specifically, no. Do whatever you think is right, I suppose.

>>49889430
Oh man, I said I was gonna dig for those characters you wrote up and completely forgot. If I have time, I'll do it once I get home, before I go to bed.

Alexios, what was that one 4chan archive you referred me to when I first showed up? The one that archives basically everything?

>>49893164
>logician leader

Coolio.

I'll note that down.

>>49892612
I don't seem to have him in my Angels of Light folder. Speaking of, I should add the Crypt Vultures and the Solar Angels.

Also I'll be posting some Bloodhound warband ideas in a moment.

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>Skinwalkers
Infamous for their exceptional depravity, the Skinwalkers are Astartes that have given themselves over in their entirety to the hunt, becoming something more and less in the process. Cannibals and berserkers, the warband is well-known for the grisly practice of devouring their victims’ innards and wearing their skins, an act that, in their depraved minds, imparts them with a measure of their defeated foes’ strength. Those victims deemed too weak for such an honour are flayed alive and their skins are dedicated to Khorne, who sends his daemons to ride these tattered remnants into battle, wearing the fluttering skins of the dead as a mortal man might wear a coat.

>Bloodgorgers
Renowned for their merriment and jovial attitude toward matters of war, the Bloodgorgers are nonetheless a grim foe, well-practiced with their favoured chain-axes and relentless in battle. They are known to brew the finest bloodmead in the Hunting Grounds, and slice apart their foes with terrible precision, ensuring that they retain their flavour for the press of the brewery.

>Heralds of Slaughter
Worshippers of the Dread Lord Doombreed, the Heralds of Slaughter are inheritors to an ancient tradition much older than any spacefaring human civilization. Herald cults exist throughout the Hunting Grounds and beyond, devoted fully to the ways of blood-sorcery and daemon-summoning, every battle perpetrated by the Astartes of the warband acting as a grisly ritual, the escalating violence serving to bring forth greater and greater fiends of the Warp. Since Doombreed’s defeat by Engerand the Heralds of Slaughter have lost a great deal of power and influence, but remain a major presence in the Hunting Grounds.

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>>49894204
>White Howlers
Lead by the notorious Chaos Champion Krallus Bloodmane (aka: Father Death, the Child Eater, the Red Huntsman, the Giver of Gifts), the White Howlers are one of the largest Chaos warbands to plague the Ashen Steppes and the Storm Kingdoms territories beyond. Known to bedeck themselves almost entirely in the hides of snow-pelted wolves from Krallus’ icy home planet, the White Howlers are more beast than man, given over almost entirely to their darker natures and communicating in snarls and howls. Prizing little else but slaughter, they devour whole populations in frenzied orgies of violence, sparing only the children, whose souls Krallus is said to devour, transforming the unfortunate youths’ empty shells into braying daemonhound vessels.

>Night Stalkers
Clad in the colours of dried, blackened blood, the Night Stalkers are patient hunters, moving swiftly and silently through the moonlit hours in pursuit of prey. Favouring the quiet slaughter, they strike when least expected, wielding long-ranged boltrifles and blackened combat blades, their edges smouldering with toxins and acids of blasphemous nature.

>Skullflayers
A minor warband known to be gripped by the very darkest of Khornate passions. The Skullflayers are easily recognizable by the bundles of scalped heads they wear like capes, sewn together with the hair and sinew of the slaughtered. Their warpriests and leaders, taken to raving in the prophetic raptures of Chaos, are known to skin their own heads, often down to the very bone.

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>>49894204
>>49894216
These are dope, Skinwalkers especially. My only gripe is that 'The Red Hunstman' is one of Balthasar's titles.

>>49894343
Oh, really? I thought he was known as the Wild Huntsman.

Well, whatever, I'll switcheroo it, Krallus can be the Wild Huntsman.

How common is it for a warband to worship two Chaos Gods? I know most worship either one of the big four, but would a pair work? I've had some ideas for warbands which worship both Khorne and Nurgle, as well as one that worships Tzeentch and Slaanesh.

>>49894592
I've never really heard of such a thing.

There are Chaos Undivided cults that worship all four gods, but I don't think I've ever seen any fluff on warbands that pick and choose two of them to follow. I don't see why it couldn't be a thing though.

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>>49895048
Warband A worships Slaanesh
Warband B worships Tzeentch

Warband B and Warband A join into warband C

chaos is a spectrum anyway. Combo warbands are cool with me.

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Boosh.

Some Negators stuff.

>>49895192
>>49895048
>>49894592
Alright, my first real attempt to write anything:

>Rabid Pursuers

The Rabid Pursuers are an oddity among the Bloodhound warbands, worshipping not only Khorne, but Nurgle as well. The warband came into existance in the wake of the 11th Crusade.
After Saul Sheridan and his Second Sons attempted to annihilate all life in the galaxy, many worlds had been bathed in fire and virus bombs. One of these worlds was the penal world of Karavmor, controlled by a Bloodhounds warband.
Some of these Bloodhounds, instead of dying from the diseases and nuclear radiation, were given new life. Blessed by both Nurgle and Khorne, they abandoned their ruined world and set out to spread their bloody taint among the stars.

The Rabid Pursuers are all infected by the same horrible plague, the Blood Boil. Their bodies are covered in bleeding gashes and blackened veins.
The Blood Boil keeps them in a state of constant rage and the fumes given off by their rotten wounds are said to be enough to cause most lesser men to enter a frenzy.
Particularly unstable, with only a relatively small number of marines able to form a coherent thought, they keep to the Chaos Marches and close to the Firewall.

>>49895750
Nice. I'll add them to the list.

You should write more, your concepts are cool.

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>Krallus Bloodmane, Champion of Khorne
Known to the galaxy by many names - The Child Eater, the Giver of Gifts, the Wild Huntsman, Father Death - and spoken of in the grim fairy-stories of a thousand worlds, little is understood of the Bloodmane's origins, only that he hails from the icy planet of Eottheim, and that he is among the most favoured of the Blood God's servants.

Boisterous and reckless, Krallus is nevertheless enigmatic to the extreme, his White Howlers seeming to follow a code of conduct entirely divorced from any sane military doctrine. Consummate raiders, they descend upon worlds without warning, acting more like a pack of beasts than men, and clad in the snowy pelts of Eottheim's giant wolves. Krallus himself is borne into battle atop a chariot of black iron, the daemonkin reigned to its bulk bearing it across the sky as a comet of icy flame. Known for his immense, pure white beard - more often not soaked in the blood and gristle of his victims - the Chaos Lord's ruddy features seem always contorted in mirth, and his laughter booms across the battlefield as he carves through his foes. Crowned by a set of gnarled horns, he is said to leave myriad trophies and gifts in his wake, leaving one for every life taken by him personally on every raid. These fell artifacts may appear benign, but Krallus always comes to collect payment for them eventually, and those who take these gifts for themselves may very well hear the Wild Huntsman's laughter echoing through the skies of their homelands in future.

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>>49897036
Krallus' is warband is invariably accompanied by hordes of skulking, misshapen daemon-wolves. These creatures' unfortunate nature is linked to the Chaos Lord's unnatural longevity. Krallus takes no prisoners and leaves no survivors, save children, whose souls he devours, their empty shells serving as vessels for daemon-hounds of Khorne. Those who resist this process admirably are inducted to the warband, through the ordeal always leaves them touched by the the evil of the daemon that sought to take anchor in their flesh, turning them feral and wracking their forms with canine mutations. Astartes raised this way are more hunting-hound than mortal man, and are degenerate beyond even other Bloodhounds, knowing little else but the thrill of the hunt and the warmth of fresh blood.

The Chaos Lord's homeworld, Eottheim, is known to have once been a Cone World, and a small cabal of Croneworld Eldar, long lost to the worship of Chaos, still reside there, sitting at court with the Child Eater. Some say that these creatures are responsible for fashioning Krallus' arms and armour, as well as his many trinkets.

>>49897036
>>49897055
:DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD


ON SMASHER ON GNASHER! NOW IMPALER AND FLAILER! ON SLICER ON DICER! ON CRUSHER AND CRASHER!

>>49897036
>>49897055
Fucking beautiful

Stayin alive

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>>49897055
>>49897036
I had to read it twice before I got it. That's incredible.

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>>49900896
Holy shit, I totally forgot that the santa sleigh actually exists in 40K now.

It would be so fucking simple to convert up Krallus.