Age of Sigmar General

I'm not really seeing the usefulness of lord verdant as people make him out to be. Unlimited unbind is fantastic but all of his other abilities are too short ranged to be worthwhile imo

>>49798444
the veritant will be 100 or 120 pt, not a very impressive set of rules

im really annoyed that he is nearly a copy/paste of the lord-celestant

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>>49798444
He's a fairly nasty fighter, reasonably durable and SCE have been lacking in unbinds, so he fits the bill. The anti-wizard pulse is super-situational at best, but should at least make some models wary of tangling with him. The Gryphhound ability would require some amazing skill to pull off consistently.

Dubs chooses my new army. Preferably Order but go wild.

>>49798655
Bretonnia

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>>49798542
120 to 140 seems about right, but I'd not mind him being cheaper.
And, yeah, the fact that literally half the blister is the same bothers me a lot, too.

>>49798655
Bretonnia

>>49798545
thats a just a little bit above average combat profile for a hero though

2-3 attacks @ 3/3/-1/2 or 3/3/-1/D3 is the standard hero profile

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>>49798655
Fimir

>>49798655
Wanderers with a full Wild Hunt spooky ghosts theme

Haven't checked it for qute a long time.
Is AoS still pointless, or did GW finally added some balancing system?

>>49798817
generals handbook came out over the summer and has points for every model with a warscroll, even armies they dont make any more

How to speed paint Skaven? Also, is a screaming bell worth it?

>>49798655
Stormclads painted like ultramarines

>>49798655
counts as brets

>>49798655
Dogs of War

>>49798655
Tomb Kings.

>>49798695
They're not the same at all. On the left, the head is facing forwards, while on the right it's facing backwards.

>>49798655
Swifthawk agents. ALL the flying boats.

>>49798655
Free Peoples

>>49798545
Objectively he has the potential to shut down casting completely for your opponent. UNLIMITED unbind attempts at +3 is top tier anti-magic.

This is a situational usefulness but in the correct situation it is extremely powerful.

This character is not easy to casually kill either. 6 wounds with a 3+ save is nothing to sniff at. Look at the majority of wizards in the game, they have typically 5+ saves with 5-6 wounds, making them pretty easy to pick off with some peripheral shooting or a round of combat with a normie hero.

Lord Veritant is also a beat stick in his own right with a drool worthy combat stat line. 4 3+ 3+ rend 1 D2 is strong, no denying it. Compared to other wizard hero on foot types his combat abilities are in a completely different league. Most wizards have something like 2 attacks 4+ 4+ rend 1 damage D3.

Conclusion: Should be expensive points wise so as not to be a hur dur autistic retard auto include for every army. Needs to be expensive enough to take seriously the anti-magic god tier ability it is rocking.

This BS about it being 100-140 points is shit, objectively speaking. If its released at that points cost it should be seen as an obvious abuse of the matched play points system by GW to extort cash from SC players.

That is all. Fags will disagree, but they are fags.

If I ask a Gamesworkshop employee "How can I get started in Age of Sigmar" will they try to get me to buy a bunch of unnecessary shit? What are the essentials to have a functioning army if your brand new?

>>49799032
he only has +3 if his stupid dog is within 6" of an enemy wizard

do you know how often that is going to happen?

almost never

veritant wont see much play

>>49798996
Check the two blisters at the top and report back to me, anon.

>>49798655
(still no winrars, keep at it)

>>49799032
>drool worthy
>hur dur
Oh, hey, it's you again. Haven't seen you since yesterday.

>>49798655
If I get trips your going to give me a piece of AoS merchandise worth no less than $40

>>49798655
Forge World Chaos dwarves

>>49799032
Why is it unlimited? If he unbinds like a wizard, wouldn't it be just the once per turn? Or are you one of those weenies that likes to do the whole "well it doesn't say I'm limited to once" or "it doesn't say I can't dispel more than once" argument?

>>49799051
Best thing to do is go to a GW store and look at the start collecting boxes. Pick a box you like the look of the best. Go to the other side of the same store and pick out the paint colors listed on the back of the box you picked. Get a medium pint brush and a small paint brush and a can of spray primer and an exacto knife and a clipper scissors. Cash out for probably less than $300. Go home and paint for 100+ hours. Bring back your stuff the following month and play a game, while you're there buy something else to paint. Repeat monthly.

>>49799097

Every wizard in the game has a rule saying how many unbinds it can do in a turn, even warrior priests have a finite amount.

The Veritant just says he can unbind enemy spells, full stop. The cap is only introduced when there's a rule stating it.

>>49799097
rules as written its unlimited. Wizard keyword leaders models have language in their rules specifying the number of casts and unbinds they are permitted to attempt per turn. The absence of such constraining language for the veritant means he is bound by no such restriction.

>>49798655
Fyreslayers.

>>49799051
Really, a start collecting box, assuming the army you want has one. That'll get you started, and you don't want to overload yourself with unpainted plastic from the beginning. You will also need:
>Primer (DO NOT buy from GW - theirs isn't actually primer)
>Clippers & hobby knife (also do not buy from GW - stupidly overpriced)
>Glue (okay to buy from GW, I guess)
>Brush & some paints (GW slightly overpriced, but not as badly as the tools. Picking up a starter paint set wouldn't be an enormous fuckup.)

So yeah, really you shouldn't be walking out of there with more than a start collecting box, some glue, and maybe a starter paint set as well. Oh, you don't need to buy any books either, resist any suggestions that you should.

If you want general advice on painting, and what primer might be good to buy in whatever part of the world you're in, the Work In Progress (WIP) thread is a good place to ask. There's almost always one up on /tg/, current one's here >>49795938.

the fuck does Veritant mean?

What word does that come from?

>>49799156
Then by this logic would he have no range or an unlimited range on the unbind, since it doesn't say how far away he has to be or does he need to draw line of sight and so on

>>49799216
18" range and LOS requirement are specifically stated in the AOS rules.

Number of unbinds is specific to the models warscroll

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Executioners done and next project assembled.

>>49799216

No, the rules for unbinds are in the main rules under magic. It's 18" for everyone.

How many unbinds you get are on the specific units warscroll

>>49799215
Veritas, latin for truth, and the -ant suffix common among stormcast heroes (e.g. Castellant, Celestant). It's not very hard, anon.

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>>49799216
Check out the FAQ for the Mighty Lord of Khorne, who has exaclty the same wording.
That should clear things up.

>>49798655
Nagash and ten mournghouls.

>>49799388
Nicely done.

>>49799032
Dude, why are you so butthurt over this? He has stupidly specific limitations to his special rules, most of which will at best happen once late in the game, most of the time he'll unbind like everybody else on 2d6+/-0. In most circumstance he'll attempt to maybe unbind three spells per turn if he's lucky, succeed on less than half, i.e. one, and cannot cast anything in turn.
You know who else can do that? The Mighty Lords of Khorne. Do you also know which Bloodbound heroes are never played because literally any other Khornate hero is considered a better choice? Also the Mighty Lords of Khorne, shockingly enough.

>>49799388
Whelp, better get to it, dude.

>>49799186
Thanks for the advice man. I just have a few questions.

1. How is GW Spray Primer not Primer?

2. Won't I need books to play in a GW store?

>>49799500
Not him but

1. GW Spray is just paint. Primer contains stuff that bonds to the surface of the plastic/metal/whatever and gives a surface for the paint to cling to. Having said that, I've 'primed' stuff with GW Chaos Black Spray and noticed no ill-effects, but I don't game with my figures so there is almost no wear on them.

2. In AoS, warscroll pdfs are freely available from their webstore. You can buy the Grand Alliance book for your faction if you want, but it's not necessary.

>>49799519
Thank you

>>49799273
lacks shading and highlighting on the armor.
you have nice thin paint coat on them though

>>49799456
Veritant is like a very specialty tool you'd find at a hardware store. Not very usefull for most things but in the right situation it is exactly the most potent hard counter in the game. I am not convinced that making such a tool inexpensive is a good idea. In my opinion it is better to price it according to its potential use and make the player decide to bring it only when its usefulness will be most optimal, thereby justifying the higher points cost.

>>49799538
yep, no wash or highlight on the armor, just thin coats neat and in the lines. The time it takes for me just to do that quality level is good enough for me. For characters and such I go the extra mile but Im not trying to win any painting contests and from 5 feet away they look great.

>>49799633
fair enough, if you painted them all with just a brush I get why you don't want to spend more time all of on them

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>>49799388
fucking hell lmao.

I did consider making nagash though, as this is one of my favourite pieces of art from the end times

>>49799633
It wouldnt take much effort to add a layer of black or brown shade to the armor and it would make it look a LOT better

>>49799388
Not a legal army, disregard dubs

>>49799555
I'm not sure I'd agree with you there. Under almost all situations the Veritant would be inferior to bringing some hypothetical wizard that gets one spell and one unbind. Assuming you are not building a counter-list based on knowing what you will be facing, which is rarely the case, to be honest, you rarely have the luxury to bring a, say, 200pts model that might have no use at all.
If I were to fight something like Fyreslayers or Beastclaw the Veritant would be utterly wasted beyond some okay damage potential

>>49799800
Dubs confirm. You got no choice now.

>>49799847

I have no idea why anyone thinks it's going to be 200, it's going to be 100 like the Castellant.

In a tournie list I would still consider two castellants before a Veritant but I'll definitely get the model to use as my second one

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Could some kind anon who owns both Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower and some Khorne Bloodreavers post a side-by-side scale comparison between the Darkoath Chieftain and some regular Bloodreavers?

>>49799930
I'd pay maybe 140 tops for him, but 100 to 120 seems more reasonable.
And, yeah, the brothers Castellant have higher priority, assuming I don't play my beloved Skyborne Slayers, in which case it's obviously nothing but a Celestant and a Venator.

>>49800077

100 is fair considering he has to shell out another 40 to even use his gryph hound rule.

Is it possible to play a moon clan grot army and have it be viable in age of sigmar? Are large units of cheap grots still decent?

>>49800560
Moonclan are built around three core concepts: Randomness, tarpits and denial.
A blob of 30 to 40 goblins will not go anywhere fast, especially when you plonked down some fanatics in front of them. And once the opponent actually charged through the fanatics and got stuck in your spear gobbos, you can comfortably pincushion the hell out of them or have some flavor of squig bounce over and eat them at their leisure.
Just don't be surprised when the dice bite you in the ass.

>>49800758

would it be better to go straight grots or are Ogres and those new iron jaws units a better way to go?

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>>49799800
Ok, so heres my amazing sketch as to how Nagash appears to be posed in this piece of art. The legs are almost the same as the model, maybe the left leg would have to be angled back a bit.

The challenge would lie in cutting the torso at the waist and angling it forward and then switching the staff while retaining that natural rising look. Thoughts?

>>49800781
Depends what you want from them.
Moonclan are the only real horde force in this selection. They are fairly nasty overall, but require some buff stacking and interlocking tactics to get the most out of them.
Ironjawz are the most recent of those armies and have some very powerful units, but have fairly little unit selection and a very low model count, roughly similar to stormcast without the fancy gubbins.
Ogres are now two distinct forces:
- Gutbuster tribes are the chunky footsloggers, who are home to the amazing Ironguts, otherwise known as one of the three best multiwound infantry units in the game.
- Beastclaw tribes are all about the big beasts. They have probably the fewest models on the table, but each is a whole pile of murder.

>>49800781

Ironjawz are the exact opposite of a grot army, they're all black orcs and black nobs. They can run more elite than even Stormcast (non Extremis)

>>49799032
+3 is in your hero phase. Unbind is in opponent's. He doesn't actually get any bonus to unbind, the +3 just means he auto passes the 4+ roll to inflict d3 wounds (assuming the doggo is in range).

>>49800077
>>49800521
I can't imagine he'll be much more expensive than this desu.
Slaughterpriest is 100 for the same unlimited unbind, a worse weapon, but a chance to do d6 mortal wounds to anyone on a 4+ and a chance to force an enemy to move.

>>49800781
If you want a heavy hitters, you could stick some moonclan grots on the back of an arachnarok. It won't change the keyword for buffs, obviously, but could look cool.

>>49801020
>more elite
Eh, more like just the same, really.
Brutes are very nearly Paladins, 'ardboys are mostly an exact copy of Liberators and even Gore-gruntas are a (poor-man's) version of Dracothian Guard.
The core differenc is that ironjaws have the slightly punchier heroes while the SCE have more and better buffs (and a wider unit selection in general).

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>>49799993

>>49798383

What's the Cheapest 1000point AOS army to collect my nigs for Battle Brothers?

>>49801226

Brutes can be Battleline though, while even Stormcast have to take some libs or judicators

they would be about the same if you could take Paladins as Battleline, but right now I can make a very small army out of a mawkrusha brutes and some Gruntas and heroes

comparing Gruntas to Dracoths? did Dracoths kill your family to deserve such an insult

>>49801265
Thanks!

Should his sword be considered one-handed or two-handed? Not in terms of rules, just in terms of size.

>>49801030
due to this I have withdrawn a great deal of my objection to a lowish points cost for this unit.

>>49801317
Hmm, good point. Didn't consider their battleline options.
I love my fulminators, but on occasion I feel they don't perform as well as their statline would suggest. Still, comparing them to Gore-gruntas is...yeah...

>>49800980
>one of the three best multiwound infantry units in the game.

What are the other two?

>>49801265
Well, considering that this is age of sigmar, the dude is probably near demi god status, and the sword is most likely a two handed sword.

>>49801405

>fulminators? Not performing? Nigga give them a Castellant buff and remember their shooting. They combo so well with the hurricanum it's not even funny. Use them in 4's for maximum effect.

>>49801458
Stormfiends and Retributors. Possibly also Kurnoth's Hunters.

Newfag from a thread back, I ended up buying the Seraphon box. Opened it up and immediately realized how fucking huge the carnifex was. Also full rules in box is nice. Satisfied/10

>>49801842

How many points is the Seraphon Box my mane, i'm trying to find a cheap 1000point AOS army to start.

>>49801860
I don't know atm, but I think its somewhere around 600.

>>49801860
Depends on hoy you assemble it.
The Carnosaurus ranges from 260 to 320 (and the Troglodon would be 200, but the Troglodon is fucking awful)
Saurus Knights are somewhat awkwardly-sized, since you get eight, but units come in multiples of five. Ten would be 240.
Same goes for the Saurus Warriors. You get twelf, but need multiples of ten. Ten would cost you 100.
Lastly, the skink oracle from the Carnosaurus set can be placed on a base no problem and makes for a nice Skink Priest, costing another 100.

Thoughts on this as a competitive 1000pts list?
Lord Castellant 100
Luminark of Hysh 240
2 Fulminators 240
2 Fulminators 240
5 Liberators 100
10 Freeguild Guard 80

1000 pts

The idea is the Castellant sticks with the liberators, but in early turns uses his buff on one of the units of Fulminators. The Luminark moves up with the Fulminators and gives them its buff as well as mystic shield to make them nigh on unkillable before they charge. It also snipes things if it has the chance. The guard just sit on an objective or slow units down.

Kind of want to make the fulminators a single unit so they can all benefit from the castellant buff, but this could limit the amount of stuff I can kill. Although in a 1000pt game this might not be a huge issue? I'd like to hear you guys' thoughts.

>>49801938
>>49801962

Based so basically a Seraphon Box and some other big dinosaurs like a Bastildon and i'm sorted

Thanks

>>49802057
Laserdon would clock in at 300, i.e. a perfect fit if you take the cheaper carnosaurus and get your hands on two more Saurus Cavalry.

>>49802056
>>49802056

There's not really a good reason not to make them 1 unit so you can have a 0+ against shooting and a 1+ against melee. They're going to absolutely trash any unit at 1000 points and they have a 16" threat range on their guns, so I wouldn't worry about them being tarpitted

You also have the mortal wounds ranged potential to counter most other mortal wound spam lists.

I think unless your meta is competitive you're going to lose friends playing it. While I loved watching 10 blood knights bounce off my buffed fulminators, it wasn't very fun for the other guy. At least you didn't take a hurricanum somehow to make their shooting hit on 2's

>>49802056
The Fulminators don't need the buff, especially not early on. They rock in at 3+(2+ against ranged) rerolling 1s with 5 wounds, buffing them even more is a waste.
A single unit of four Fulminators is probably overkill against most things at 1k; and if something needs that amount of power to rremove you could still just charge it with two units and buff the safe of the unit that doesn't go first.

>>49802184

Dont listen to this guy. Fulminators (and Cuncussors) are the apex of Stormcast buff skew tactics.

Arcane shield + Castellant buff means any attack that doesn't have -2 rend has a better chance of healing you than doing damage.

>>49802227
There is such a thing as overkill, y'know. The amount or ranged Rend -1 is already miniscule, stacking buffs to ignore even Rend -2 is silly, due to the simple fact that it's easier to just pile on mortal wounds.

Gents, im kinda conflicted. I don't know if i made the right choice.

I came 3rd in the armies on parade but gave my spot to someone who made more effort.

Did i make the right choice?

More info: I have a fully painted (and nice, not great, but nice) ironjawz army. Didn't have a board to enter but manager told me i could use a store board. Nice kid came in like he does every armies on parade with a nice board (spider gobbos) He put way more effort on his board, than i did mine, like every year. (each year he was beaten by kids who got their entire family to vote) This year he was beaten to 3rd by me. However I felt guilty as i just entered for fun not expecting anything.

I gave him my spot cos he deserved it more.

However when i told my family they said i did the wrong thing and i deserved that medal... I don't know what to think.

TL,DR: Was nice to a kid but now feel conflicted.

>>49802283

That's the entire point: I put forward an extremely Killy unit that you do not have the capacity to deal with unless you built your list to counter it and even then, I can probably (with a little help from the luminark) snipe those elements depending on who I'm facing.

I stopped playing the 2k version of the list (hurricanum instead of a luminark) outside of tournaments because people could only beat the list on objective if they didn't specifically list tailor to counter me.

At that point it's everything that people hate about Beastclaw Raiders but with a bullshit rerollable save.

Granted Extremis chambers have an uphill battle on any "most amount of models within 6" of the objective" games

>amount of rend -1 shooting is miniscule

not many dorf or empire players left where you are, I'm guessing.
There's nothing as satisfying as charging 40 2+/2+ handgunners and taking 1 wound from the stand and fire.

>>49798383
Wait, are they slowly intergrating the Ultramarines into Age of Sigmar?

>>49802369
Kill the kid and steal his medal. Obviously it's the only way.

>>49802369

It's a bronze medal for toy soldier painting. Who cares

>>49802396
Oh, haha, wow, anon, that joke sure was super-funny and original and not at all something we heard ad nauseam six months ago.

>>49802369

Win it next year my nig

>>49802408

welp... no weaponry in the uk

>>49802416

I know, but its proof that people liked my painting

>>49802494

Thats my plan, bloodbowl game playing through an earthquake caused by two bribed wizards.

>>49802369
I congratulate you on not being a douche. You would feel much worse if you accepted it but did not feel you deserve it! If the kids put that much effort into it, think how much it must mean for him. Once again, well done.

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Why the fuck do chaos have all the good FW models in AOS

>>49798383
Where did you read about this "Storm redux"?

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>>49802628
I think the guys at FW really like Chaos for it's many possibilities.

I was happy when I heard they had dorfs, but to me they just aren't that great. Not bad really, just a bit meh for my taste.

>>49802369
> told my family I gave away wnd loser medal at toy soldier painting
> family said no you deserved that medal
Get new, non gay family. So, entering fag competition to begin with.
HIDE YOUR SHAME LIKE THE REST OF US

>>49799006
Would that even be any good? I love roc-boats and shadow warriors.

>>49802628

The carmine dragon and all the empire models are still fantastic.

Magma dragon for destruction is pretty neat

Anyone have the two Tzeentch daemon formations?

>>49802747
The Lord-Vertiant.

>>49798655
Order Draconis

>>49798655
Because the nagash and mournghouls is not a legal army, and a meme, I'll give it a shot

Dispossessed and ironweld arsenal

>>49802283
>>49802227
Buffs go before rend, so buffing to 2+, and adding mystic shield doesn't cancel out a -1 rend. You would save on a 3+

>>49806778
what the fuck are you talking about

castellant buff = +1 to save rolls
mystic shield = +1 to save rolls
rend -1 = -1 to save rolls
net change +1
base save 3+ becomes 2+ rolls

>>49802369
If you felt you did the right thing that's all that matters. If you felt he was more deserving than that is a reasonable response.

>>49806811
My model has a 3+ save. With mystic shield, it's +2, castellant doesn't make it better, since you can't have a +1 save.

It gets attacked by an opponent which has a -1 rend.

My +2 save becomes a +3. Easy as that.

>>49807245
>My model has a 3+ save. With mystic shield, it's +2, castellant doesn't make it better, since you can't have a +1 save.
Yes you can you dumb fuck

You still have a save of 3+ but your save roll is increased by 2. Rend reduces the save roll result, not the models save.

Effectively this means you have a 1+ save but in reality it is a 3+ save with two +1 buffs and a -1 to the roll.

1s still fail because of the Rule of One

>>49807299
Sure man.

>>49807310
He is correct. Buffing something to 1+ is viable, as rend, or if it's a 1+ to hit, then stuff like the Mourngul'a effect, are reduced or negated.

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>>49807310
Look at the way this ability is worded

+1 to save rolls, not to the models save

>>49807500
>+1 to save rolls, not to the models save

Actually, most modifier in AoS are changing the dice value, not the numbers on warscrolls.

Is there any point in playing AoS as anyone other than Sigmarines and Chaos?

That's all anyone ever turns up with except some old dude with Orks.

>>49808811
>There is no point in owning the absolutely gorgeous Sylvaneth and Ironjaws miniatures

Hey guys got a rule question for you. I recently got an Exalted Verminlord and want to use it as Lord Skreech Verminking. With the Dreaded 13th spell, do I need to use 'summon points' to set up the new skaven unit if it doesn't specify that it's a summon? Just thought I'd ask since I'm planning on using him tomorrow

https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/PDF/AoS_Warscrolls/aos-warscroll-skreech-verminking-en.pdf here's his warscroll

>>49808849
All spells and effects that set up models on the table fall under the summon budget, doesn't matter how it's called.

>>49808947
Ah I see, so does that mean that his 13th spell really isn't worthwhile using for spawning new units then? Since I imagine the whole unit that you set up costs the full amount of reinforcement points even if it's not at full strength, like for example if I slew 6 models with the dreaded 13th spell and then set up 6 stormvermin, would that cost me 140 reinforcement points?)

>>49808994
Bingo, that's exactly right.
Mind you, the 13th is still a very powerful offensive spell (over three times the average damage compared to Arcane Bolt), but for summons I wouldn't bother. Sylvaneth have similar problems, in their case it has to do with random summons.

>>49809311

Sylvaneth's problem is that they have to summon one thing. If you can only summon Dryads and have to allocate points in your list, why not start with Dryads on the table?

>>49808994
>>49809311
Summon a warbringer instead?

>>49809365
I think he's talking about Alarielle. But it's not a problem, as the gigantic heal pulse she can use instead of the summon is often a lot more useful.

>>49809655
Doesn't really change the fundamental problem.

>>49799633

If your looking for the quick way out, why not use simple old dry-brush techniques, you get the shade, you get the highlights all in one go, all in the quarter of time it takes you to "paint inside the lines".
Just a thought though, they look ok as they do but as >>49799538, stated, they do look a bit flat.

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Why is it always like this...
I start a project, some people catches on, and then it all just... .run out in the sand.
I'm 2 piggly wiggly´s from completing a 1k army to a reasonably good standard. One that I actually might be proud of showing of! But alas, laziness strikes again, and it comes at the same time all my friends drop out, so no games to motivate me....

Same with 40k, same with 30k, same with warmahordes.... I want to be 15 again, with no responsibilities what so ever, just painting my days away! Playing games all weekend long... oh those where the days!

>>49805228
Maybe I'm stupid, but I can't see any Storm Redux on his product page or his warscroll.

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>the Stormvermin kit includes the option to give the Fangleader a rad-looking axe/pick or a sword or both or even two swords
>the picture on their warscroll also features a guy with two swords right at the front of the unit positioned in such a way to draw the eye to him
>yet the rules state that all Stormermin can only take halberds

Is anyone else annoyed by this? The Fangleader has such a cool array of weapon and accessory options that are quite literally unusable if you want to actually use him in a game.

>>49810460

Use the bits for conversions?

>>49810460
Need a warlord? There's your warlord.

>>49810487
If a weapon arm is in the box it should be in the rules. There is absolutely no reason for it to be any other way.

>>49810539
And then you have 19 men in a unit that can only be taken in multiples of ten.

>>49810460
>The Fangleader has such a cool array of weapon and accessory options that are quite literally unusable if you want to actually use him in a game.
pretty much every legacy unit leader is like that

>>49809854
Don't let 2 piggies be your bane, anon. Those are som of the best ironjawz I've seen!

>>49810460
That's basically just the ordinary champion armament. All unit champs have a different weapon arm/head to the rest of the unit. It's to make them stand out. They can still count as an ordinary part of the unit. Or use the bitz to convert a rad warlord or other hero.

>>49810580
It says ten or more models, not multiples of ten

>>49810713
In matched play you pay for multiples. You can of course field less, but pay for the whole number anyway.

>>49810606

Thanks man!
My main problem is that most of my armies seems the same, all missing but a few models to a unit or two, to be fully completed! And I own a LOT of armies! Thus I have a shit-ton of stuff in my backlog....

Guys I don't know much about Warhammer Age of Sigmar, but between this and w40k, it seems to cost less, and it happens to be one of the two games with large enough groups of people to play against. Could someone point out which armies are the best right now. All I know about local Warhammer is that people play it between 1-1.5k points, with sometimes custom scenarios from local tournaments.
My budget right now is around 150$, and I could probably get around half as much for christmas. I also have no problems with waiting till christmas, if building a minimum points army requires more then 150$.

>>49810460
If it's for looks, just model him with whatever you want, and just explain to your opponent all the cool ccws on your fang leaders act the same as halberds.

I'm doing something similar with my gore-gruntas. I'm modeling them all with the jagged gore hackas (halberd) because it looks great, but all of them count as pig iron choppas (hand weapons) because there really isn't any reason not to take them.

If my opponent objects, well I guess I get -1 to hit and still look cool as fuck.

>>49811024
Do you have hobby knife/supplies

>>49811024
Start Collecting boxes are 85USD. Pick whichever one you like the look/ idea of. AoS doesn't have any trap armies like 40k any of them are viable. Download the app for free and you can see the 4 page rulebook, and the free warscrolls for the individual units (which has the bulk of the rules.)The General's Handbook is 25USD for a hardcopy, and a little less for a digital copy through the app. Add in some paints and glue and finish your SC box, get a few games in, figure out how you want to expand and ask for those units for Christmas.

If you insist on playing a "good army" just lurk more and see which faction gets bitched about the most.

Im pretty excited for custom print things. I was wondering if i grabbed settra and 3 tomb kings i could use settras "all your friends can general too" ability hes got to make my skeles hit on 2's?

>>49811102
yes, We don't have GW stores, but we do have 2 stores where table top games are played. One runs w40k/WAoS exclusivly, the other runs some other games.

>>49811111
I do have a pdf version of the General Handbook, if that is the book with points. What am most interested is an army that is balanced between power, and army cost. I understand that there are some armies that are very good, but high cost, because they are based around monsters etc. In fact I would like to avoid armies which require those big kits to be viable. Maybe something based around few small units.
I have seen people play storm cast eternals for example. They basic units are ok, but I just can't afford runing 5-6 high cost single model kits. The other army I was thinking about are the evil sigmar dudes, but they either spam 20 model units or have some 20 man units and 2-3 big monsters.
So is there a good, low cost, low/medium number of models army.

>>49811024
>best army
That's the wrong attitude to take.
That being said, grab a Start Collecting box for an army you like the look of. That done, buy a primer, some colors, a few brushes, glue and hobby tools. GW colors are good, GW primers are decent, GW tools and glue are crap. Get those for cheap somewhere else. That should cover all your bases.

>>49811292
People may disagree with me here but I am going to say it, the new released factions are stronger point for point than the legacy factions with no new releases. I'd pick one of the new factions and build your army around one of the formations from the codex from that faction.

The real juju power sauce is from formation bonuses that the new released factions have access to.

>>49808111
thats exactly what i said

>>49798655
Brayherds

>>49811555
Sorry am a little bit confused by this, what do you mean wrong attitude? Maybe I wrote something the wrong way, english isn't even my second language.
>>49811555
Ok so one of the two sigmarites factions. So which models should I get first. I require 1000pts to play the smallest games/tournaments.

>>49811292
Stormcasts are great for low model count armies, as are Ironjawz if you want a different, Orky aesthetic. Gut buster Ogres are really strong and don't require large kits. A Nurgle Rotbringers force with Putrid Blightkings fits the bill pretty well, but is tricky to expand without getting into big monster kits, unless you take some MORTAL NURGLE units from Slaves to Darkness. Soulblight Draculas might work for you if you like spooky Dracula Knights and manbats.

Or look for a faction with a battle line cavalry unit that you like.

>>49811635
I don't realy care about how the models look like, although ease of transport is important. For example I can't realy play an army with models like big Lich King, because I would have no way of transporting it without it getting damage on the bus.
How would an oger army look like? They seem to run small units of mid sized guys without any big monsters, which would be ok as far as army composition goes. How do the best oger builds look like this winter seson?

>>49803069
They're good models, but there's like three of them.

>>49811607
I mean picking the (supposedly) best army for the sake of picking the best army is the wrong attitude since playing a army you hate the look and fell of will lead you to drop the game fairly quickly.
Just a friendly heads-up.

As for the stormcast, I'd recommend getting the SCE half of the two-player starter kit. It provides you with a lot of good stuff and is easy to build due to being snapfit. Add to that the Easy to Build: Retributors kit to round out your Retributors to the necessary five guys.
- Lord-Celestant on Dracoth - 220
- Lord-Retributor - 80
- Retributors (5) - 220
- Liberators (5) - 100
- Liberators (5) - 100
- Prosecutors (3) - 100
That leaves you with a comfy 180 points to spend on other stuff.

>>49811686
>I don't care how the models look like.
>best build this season
I...don't even know what to say.

>>49811686
It's probably best to ask the guys over in >>49798206, they have roughly the same attitude.

>>49812574
I played a few table top games in the past, and more then a few ccg, and I never had problems with wining decks or armies being boring, I did on the other hand see people fall for the play what you want trap, and most of them never come back, while people who start with powerful factions stay and play for years. But I can imagine it is a taste thing.

What is a SCE, I realy am bad with acronims in english. I suppose it is some sort of dual faction box, and I doubt I will be able to buy one alone. But assuming I would how much would it cost me for the half box and the retributors, and what is played as the filler 180pts.

>>49812600
Well am assuming there are some sort of sesonal meta changes, with new stuff coming out, stuff being errated/buffed/nerfed. Maybe it is not called sesons, but am assuming there is something like that. People told me there was some summer seson thing, so I kind of a expected to be an winter seson now. Maybe it is an autumn seson. I don't know, as I said I am rather new.

>>49812636
But that is a warmachine thread. No of the stores I can go to run warmachine. My choice is between Warhammer Age of Sigmar and Warhammer 40k. And out of those two the second one costs too much for me. Even If I pirate the books, the starter army I could want is over 600$.

>>49812737
Yeah, but the super-competetive, I-don't-give-a-shit-how-my-army-looks attitude is warmahordes to the core. If the shoe fits...

>>49812737
600 is not that much considering you will have them forever.

>>49811686
Just...wow...if I was you come back in a couple of days and ask again once you figure out what you have done wrong

>>49812723
I mean, do whatever, your enjoyment is paramount here, but don't be surprised if people don't care for a rematch with you.
SCE is Stormcast Eternals, aka sigmarines. The AoS starter is 125$, the Easy to Paint: Retributors is 15$, so if you split the starter 50/50 with somebody that would mean you pay 77.50$ for the above stuff. At that point you could add a box of Judicators with bows (160pts/50$) to add some ranged pressure to the game.

>>49812723
We had a summer campaign. That's not really a season of the game, much less one that had any meta beyond "Gosh, a lot of people play the Order grand alliance, huh?".
The closest thing to an actual meta would be Mortal Wounds stacking found in some tournaments, but that can be done with quite a number of armies.

>>49811231
Yes, but only mummy heroes can use command abilities.

Random thought, but you know what irritates the shit out of me? That not all the warscrolls got visual updates. Legacy or not, all the units are playable and they've got all the templates already. All they need to do is just take some good pictures of the figs and throw the warscrolls together. Wtf GW.

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Points are out for the Veritant. 120

You guys don't seem very friendly to new people. Am just asking about what models should someone buy, because my money is limited, and the reaction is as If I was asking for human sacrifice.
>>49812835
I maybe wrong, but from my limited knowladge of GW games, they do not have something like a pro tour or money prizes for tournaments. Maybe this is an outsiders view on things, but to be this means that there is no such thing as super-competetive sceen in GW games. And from what I know about warmachine they don't have people living from playing warmachine either.

>>49812871
Am assuming GW does have something like edition rotations and new army books, I am also almost 100% sure that each new book invalidates the last book builds. I can imagine playing a year or two with a 200-300$ army, and then being forced to switch, I can't imagine doing the same with 600$+ armies.

>>49812895
Am puting this on my low skills in english, but if I have somehow insulted anyone am sorry. But I realy don't see what wrong I asked about.

>>49813201
assuming this is not including the cost for the gryph hound? Gryph hound is what, 40 points?

Seems like a really good value: 3+ save, 6 wounds, 4 3+ 3+ rend 1 damage 2 attacks, 50% 7" D3 mortal wounds on target wizard, unlimited unbind attempts, unbind attempts at +3 modifier with gryph hound within 7". Downright undercosted IMHO.

>>49813228
You are wanting to get into a hobby, 90% of which is building and painting minatures. To turn around and say "I don't care what they look like" is insulting to people who put so much time into the hobby. AoS isn't (or at least hasn't been and will hopefully mainly stay not) WAAS (Win at all costs) and as such turning up begging people for "meta lists" so that you can compete and you don't care what the army looks like is insulting to those who put so much time and effort into their hobby. This is mainly because it suggests that you don't care, that you will turn up to battle them with some grey filth which isn't what this hobbies about. If that is what you want, minimum cost, minimum effort, waac, this isn't the hobby for you and you should not expect a warm welcome!

>>49813228
You aren't going to be winning any tournaments with cheap armies. Not a chance in hell. There are hardly any tournaments that have prize money, and even then, the money isn't even enough to pay for the army that won the thing half the time,

People are hostile to you because you want to start the game to win, not for fun. That isn't a good mindset to have.

>>49813228
You won't get 1000 points for under $150 unless your an eBay legend!

>>49810460
>>49810580

>Is anyone else annoyed by this?

Yes and no. Skaven have some of the better versions of this. Weapons existing and you having rules for them on the warscroll.

Rat Ogres finally use their warpfire gun-arms.
Plague monks use every item in the kit, except the flail (Useful for censer converting though)
Packmasters can equip every weapon option, and GW doesn't even sell the shock-prod anymore, but they were good enough to keep it in.

In short: We have it good, no need to complain, and at least the fangleader stands out among them.

>>49813538

How is it insulting to say you don't care what the miniatures look like? What one player's army looks like has no impact on the quality of their opponent's, or the respect they deserve for doing a good paint job.

AoS is a game, irrespective of whether it is also a hobby. The purpose of a battle is to determine whether your 1,000 points can beat my 1,000 points. How well any of the models are painted, or even whether they are painted at all, does not affect this.

M:tG doesn't make you draw your own art on cards to play. Chess doesn't make you carve your own pieces. Why should the game of AoS (being distinct from the hobby) be any different?

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>>49813582
>mfw I got 1000pts of Skaven for roughly $100 without buying anything second hand

Dark Sphere is a hell of a drug; it's a game store in London that sells all GW products at 25% off RRP. Shit's great, I barely even buy Warhams off Ebay any more.

>>49813728
You're missing out on possible opportunities to feel superior to people if you don't embrace the painting aspect of the hobby. If your army looks like tits and your opponents looks like shit you can walk away from a loss still feeling superior. Understand this and you've advanced to the next stage of warhammer enlightment.

>>49813791

But you could do exactly the same thing just by putting the miniatures on the table and looking at them.

If you're going to roll dice, make an effort to win. Otherwise, it's insulting to people who put time into reading up on the meta, playtesting, and tweaking their army lists.

>>49813538
Well to be honest here where I live, people are interested in games part of table top games. Am not saying no one paints their models here, some do, some don't. I have never heard about anyone picking any game here, table top or not, including sports, because of looks. It is always cost vs power. With cost being the most important factor. A lot of people play not top tier decks, or not top tier armies, because they just can't afford playing armies that cost 900$+ armies. I did not know that somehow wanting a good army is bad, and to be honest I feel a bit confused now. Because Games Workshop seems to point to me at being a firm that makes games, and not models for modeling people. I seriously did not know that.

>>49813569
Ok, am kind of not understand how wining is not fun or against fun. Am also realy sure that I would unhappy, If I spent money on an army and it would kept losing, because it is bad. As I said before, I have no expiriance with Games Workshop games, but I know people who played their games, and I know that people who did not buy good lists and good models lost interest in playing the game real fast, and actualy felt cheated of their money. In fact my asking about what lists or models are good is rooted in that. I do not want to spend all my money on units that may end up bad, I didn't work all summer just to waste my money.
>>49813582
how much would a 1000pts army cost on avarge then. As I said I could wait till christmas or even longer, if that is required.

>>49813782
>tfw can't buy from them because no shipping to burgerland

I support my local gaming scene, but I need 80 vermin I'm not paying 200$ plus tax damnit

>>49813460
Don't get me wrong, 120 IS good value, but he is hardly as good as you make him out to be. The +3 from the hound only pops during your hero phase, but unbinds happen during your opponent's, while the antimagic pulse doesn't have any connection to the Lantern. RAW it doesn't do jack, so we need to wait for a FAQ to clarify this.
And even if it did work, it requires one specific gryphpup to hang out near the enemy wizard, which is a plan that's bound to get fucked up.
And, yeah, with the dog he costs 160.

>>49813886
Thank god im not from where your from, I'm guessing you still use black and TVs as well.

>>49813918
"Black and white TVs"*

>>49813728
At this point I am honestly not sure whether you are a masterful troll or genuinely incapable of understanding the arguments made here.
If it's the former, I'd give you a 8/10, deducting 2 points for making me less mad, but more confused. If it's the latter, I am so sorry for you.

>>49813869
>But you could do exactly the same thing just by putting the miniatures on the table and looking at them. If you're going to roll dice, make an effort to win. Otherwise, it's insulting to people who put time into reading up on the meta, playtesting, and tweaking their army lists.

no no no... you're not getting it. You have to go hardcore meta list build play to win AND be superior because your models make your opponents look like shit.

>>49813980
But I don't want to waste all that time painting when I'm just going to buy a new list that I found online anyway. And I definitely won't base them because when I shove them all into the middle I need to stick the bases!

>>49813973

I genuinely don't understand how me (being someone who comes from a general tabletop gaming background) enjoying AoS as a game, while not caring at all for the modelling/painting side of things, detracts from the enjoyment you get from painting your miniatures.

>>49814041
>But I don't want to waste all that time painting
then you have not yet advanced to the next stage of warhammer enlightenment. Don't worry, you'll get there eventually.

>>49814076
If it has to be explained to you you will never get it. Try entering that grey list you have made over the weekend into a tournament, then go crying back to your card games which require no imagination or respect for others

>>49814085
Next stage of enlightenment? Is that when I can put l.e.ds into everything?

>>49802129
Easiest solution to the 8 Saurus Knights situation would be to get two sets of 8, so 16. That's 3 minimum units, or 1 big brick. And then paint the 16th one different as a Scar-Veteran on a Cold-One.

>>49814207
That's a very sensible idea. Not bad.

>>49802369
Bigger question is, does the kid who has his whole family vote for him actually have a nice looking army or are they just fluffing his ego?

>>49814175
>Next stage of enlightenment?
When you no longer feel satisfied from merely crushing your opponent on the battlefield. This will happen eventually and out of that hollow boredom you will fill the void by not only triumphing on the table top but also by shaming your opponent for having shitty looking models. This is the next level of warhammer enlightenment.

>>49813201
>120pts
That's reasonable. Once you factor in the Gryph-hound he get's rather pricey, but I'll probably leave that one at home, since it's too situational.

>>49814159

If I were to enter an official tournament, I'd pay due consideration to the 'minimum painting standard' rules (whatever they have) and weigh the enjoyment I'd get from competing against the hassle of painting the army. Depending on how many tournaments I'd have the opportunity to enter with that army, and the effort required, I may or may not decide it was worth it.

If I decided to enter a tournament, I'd do the bare minimum to get my army painted, so I could spend my free time doing things I'd actually enjoy. And that would have no impact on how well my army performed when I entered, and I don't think it should be regarded as disrespectful to my opponents (who, as they've also entered the tournament, are presumably also playing to win).

Let's look at this another way. Say you'd painted a really good entry for Armies on Parade, using some of the most interesting and challenging models to paint. Say you'd spent time doing conversions, and a full terrain board to put them on, the whole nine yards, and you were really proud of it. Now, imagine all the other people who see it say that it's not a competitive list, and that you're insulting all the other entrants by bringing something which would get tabled on turn one. That's how I feel when you say I'm insulting people who enjoy the painting side by only enjoying the rules.

>>49814334
lots of times the prizes for best painted shit are just as good as the prizes for actually winning. Just something else to think about too.

>>49814334
You are in the wrong mindset here friendo

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>>49814334

>>49814334
Dude, it is obvious you are adamant about your way being the right one, so why don't you go ahead and just give it a go? Do report back once you have tried your method in some tournaments, will you?
As for a metabuster list, you'll just have to work that out yourself.

>>49814334
You don't seem to like the lions share of your hobby? Maybe you should think about looking into a new one?

>>49814334
AoS/40k/WHFB/30k/etc. are fucking awful hobbies if you only enjoy the gameplay aspect, especially "competitive" gameplay.

You have to consider it as a combined collecting/assembling/converting/painting/playing hobby for the price tag to be worth it and for the poorly balanced rules to be worth enduring.

>>49814392

The mindset of wanting to be allowed to enjoy the side of the hobby I would potentially find fun, without wanting to waste time on aspects I don't enjoy, and don't believe I would enjoy given time? If I you think I should have another one, maybe I shouldn't try getting into AoS after all.

For the record, I never said wouldn't try painting my army at all. However, my main factor when choosing an army to start with would be one which would be interesting to play and/or competetive, and not which one looked best or was most interesting to paint.

>>49814499

I'm coming to see that, if the opinions on this board are what the majority of players are like.

Thanks for putting it plainly, and not implying I'm being 'insulting' to other players by actually being interested in the game side of things.

>>49814334
I suggest looking into an hobby where 90% of the time isn't usually spent doing something you dislike.

Also this >>49814499 If you don't like painting or modelling Aos or 40k becomes fucking awful and even more fucking expensive than they already are.

Also considering that assholes that only play to field the most broken and unfun thing is what destroyed WHFB and is currently destroying 40k, you can find a little stigma against them in the community.

>>49814334
If you don't care about the hobby just buy some second hand minis on Ebay. Already painted, assembled and cost less.

>>49814512
You outright asked which army was the best and that you didn't give a shit about anything else. There's not much room for interpretation, dude.
Also, we have answered your questions, which you then dismissed, so, perhaps you really shouldn't get into AoS, yeah.

I would love to get into sylvaneth and this game fuck is it expensive to start. Also the fact the hamadreth is only $3 less than a tree Lord really fucks with my brain

>>49814647
Go with the start collecting. The Sylvaneth one is awesome. the only thing you could need that is not in there are Kurnoth.

>>49808837
If your opponent brings any sort of good shooting, those Ironjawz will get blasted so hard, it won't even be a game.

I do agree though, beautiful models.

>>49814549
This is not to say that gameplay is drudging. It really isn't. I will admit there are better designed games than 40k, but I have fun still at games with friends and even tournaments. I just enjoy gw's minis and the settings lore more than any other company's and that is reason enough for me to stay.

AoS on the other hand, I am finding little fault in it even with the game design and balance aspect. My only real complaint anymore about it is the price of minis. Everything else is great.

It really depends who you talk to for any game.

>>49798545
Does anyone know how many points he's going to be?

>>49814835
See
>>49813201
Lurk more

>>49814711
Maybe, but Silvaneth are also incredibile in gameplay. Last week I played them in a 80 people tournament and I arrived 3rd. And I'd have arrived first if the last game went on for more than 3 turns, but the opponent was playing that bullshit bonesplitterz list and good luck playing more with 240 dice of ranged attacks each turn.

Rolled 3, 6 = 9 (2d6)

>>49798383
test

>>49814499
Aren't there awful hobbies only when you pick a bad initital army. Lets say someone picked high elfs or eldar, I don't see them not being happy with WFB/W40k for decades. Specialy when someone consideres what realy unhappines could possibly be, vide Bretonians or Chaos Marines.

>>49815632
Dude, just... let it go.

>>49815632
its still a bad hobby if you dont care/like the lore, as well as building and painting your models, which is a huge amount of the hobby. even someone who collects the shittiest army can have a ton of fun if they enjoy all aspects of it.

>>49815745
No it is a huge part of the hobby for people who actualy like painting and building models. Normal people who are interested in the game, because it is a game. Will have fun while playing good armies, no matter if their models are or are not painted. Now this of course does not mean that for people who feel that painting is the most important thing for them isn't the most fun thing. But that has nothing to do with the models as a game. There may as well be no W40k or WFB, and they would still be enjoying painting models. It is the same for people who want to play the game. If someone removes an aspect not essential to playing the game they will not care. They won't care if one is added also, aka if the army is painted to a high standard. Just like people who care mostly about painting do not care which edition it is or which codex updated or not.

>>49815710
Let what go? sorry am not realy good with english idioms.

>>49815848
Obviously nobody here agrees with your ass-backward opinion, so would you just kindly fuck off? Was that plain enough for you?

>>49814379
I have heard of some tournaments giving more stuff for "Best Painted" and "Best Sportsman" because of WAAC cunts ruining it for everyone.

>>49815835
How can you not undertand that finding some "meta list" online, buying the bare minimum and throwing them together, just so you can WAAC and get a few cheap wins is selfish and insulting? There are plenty of things that you could do instead! And by doing such, you are turning to those that actually work hard on their armies and essentially saying that all that work means nothing. Maybe you don't understand that in AoS every army has its strengths and weaknesses and it's up to you to figure out how to use what you think looks cool in the best way, and that is literally what the creators have said about it!

>>49815898
So the norm with Games Workshop games is that people pick bad armies, and have fun with them, because they are only painting them?
How do they avoid people who happen to like good models, including painting them, or who happened to end up with a codex that is a bit better then other ? A seriously asking, and not trying to troll here.
Do they just not play vs faction X, or people who play faction X, also have to buy another army, if they want to play or people play armies of the same tier, if an actual tier exists in GW games.

>>49816100
But isn't that what games are about. Bayern or FC Barcelon have more money, they go buy better players, they win more, so their fans get to see the team they like in more events etc. which of course doesn't mean someone can't be a fan of a club in czech republic, but the amount of fun such a fan can have is limited, compering to someone who is a fan of Real.
And before someone says that fans are not the same as players. It is the same for players, playing for a good team, even if your not that good, will get you more money, more screen time. And money is generaly a fun thing most of the time.

>>49816143
Usually the only people that get avoided are the power gamers. Some people genuinely have fun with this game, win or lose. In the shop I frequent we have a guy who plays seraphon. I've yet to see him lose a game but everyone loves playing against him because he tries and makes it fun for all involved.

>>49816197
What is your point here?
That money ruined footie (we all know that)? That money buys happiness? That money means you deserve to beat everyone and not care for them having fun too? What?

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Hey guys so I heard coming over to the 40k general and shitposting is fun, so I thought I'd try the inverse.

>>49816296
Go back to the 40k general, man, we have a situation here, and I fear you guys are to blame at least in part for this.

>>49814686
The kurnoth have three different profiles?

>>49816755
Polearms, greatswords and longbows, yeah.

>>49816806
What is the difference? I mean I actual terms. Are all the profiles decent? And what about the tree Lord? How do the profiles work?

>>49813728
You're a cancerous cockroach who has infested our thread. You're obviously a powergaming waacfag who relies on handouts from mommy and daddy while being forced to take the bus since your parents are busy working. Leave /tg/ and never come back.

>>49816806
>What is the difference? I mean I actual terms. Are all the profiles decent? And what about the tree Lord? How do the profiles work?

go read the warscroll for Christ sake, lazy much?

>>49816855

For a basic rundown

>Kurnoth Archers
Very powerful long range artillery. I usually use two units of them as one is pretty unreliable. Very damaging and useful to get rid of support heroes or warmachine servants.

>Kurnoths with Scythes
Melee deathmachines. They rape monsters as wheat. Basically choose these if you want a melee powerhouse, or take archers if you want a ranged threat.

>Kurnoth with Swords
Basically like the ones with Scythes, just with more attacks but less rending, so they are better against low save units and worse against high saves. Between them and the scythes ones it's just a matter of preference.

>Treelord
The melee version. It hits hard, it's pretty resilient, it has a good but short range ranged attack. It's also the cheapest one at 260 points. It's not an hero.

>Treelord Ancient
The support version. It hits less than a normal treelord, and the ranged attack has more range but less damage on average. It compensate by being a hero, being a wizard with a very good spell, having the ability to create woods on a 4+ and having a bubble of rerolling saves of 1 as a command ability. Being an hero can be given artifacts, and giving him the +1 armor one make him almost indistructible against everything that doesn't inflict mortal wounds. 300 points

>Spirit of Durthu
The rape one. His damage potential is thought the roof, with 3+d3 attacks with damage 6 each and a very powerful ranged attack. Basicall if it gets in combat with something while at full healt is going to rape it. Still, the most expensive at 400 points.

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>>49816855
All profiles are very decent. Greatswords fall slightly short of the other two options, but are still totally reasonable, especially if you hate random damage values.

As for the treelords, you have three distinct types. The bog-standard Treelords, who are mostly cheap and fighty; the Treelord Ancients, less fighty, but with a nasty spell and a great command ability; and the Spirits of Durthu, who are utterly brutal, but fairly flimsy, damage dealers, but cost accordingly.

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>>49816855
>What is the difference? I mean I actual terms. Are all the profiles decent? And what about the tree Lord? How do the profiles work?

Please kill yourself if you run these

>>49817291
I collect Sylvaneth and even I think they are kinda bullshit, but every army is allowed at least one bullshit unit/monster/hero

>>49815632
>>49815835
>>49816197
What the fuck am I reading? "If I'm not winning, I can't have fun"? "If I picked an OP army, I'm automatically having fun"? Not even competitive players think that way.

It's not fun to completely stomp someone solely because you picked the best army and with no skill involved unless you're a sadist. The satisfaction of winning comes from outplaying your opponent, not outbuying him. Practically everyone would say that a very even match which they lost was more fun than a completely one-sided match which they won.

I would not paint miniatures if there were no rules or lore, because painting is not fun enough to do on its own. I paint them to make the games look better.
I would not read Warhammer lore if there were no miniatures or rules, because the writing is not very good on its own. I read it to make the games more interesting.
I would not play Warhammer games if there were no miniatures or lore, because the rules aren't very good on their own. I play them because with painted models and a nice setting, the games become ten times more entertaining.

>>49817291
>>49817095
>>49817038
So I really don't know much about how army lists are made, but let's say I get the sylvaneth starter and a box of kurnoth. I think I'll make the kurnoth the shooters but which version is best for a new player? And how would the list look like?

>>49817468
>every army is allowed at least one bullshit unit/monster/hero

The elves just called they say you're full of shit

>>49818195
Are we talking about the guys with the stackable -1 to hit aura 4+ ward saves phoenix?

>>49817595

You know what i find really sad, is that there is a considerably large amount of people out there that the challenge of winning is not the fun part, they care not how the winning is done, only that they do and completely stomping someone is even preferable to an even sided game where victory was not assured. I know lots of people like this, board games and computer games. Its a shame.

>>49818195
The Elves can shut up and wait until they get a proper release before saying anything. For all we know the Elves will get their release and they will have the most broken shit imaginable.

For a fair comparison, you need to compare the Elves to the pre-battletome Sylvaneth. Back when they only had Dryads, Treelords, Treelord Ancients and the Branchwraith.

Also, legacy Waywatchers are fucking terrifying ranged units

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>>49818409
>Are we talking about the guys with the stackable -1 to hit aura 4+ ward saves phoenix?

don't stack, over rated, see pic, still makin some anyways.

>>49815710
Underrated post. I respect what you were trying to do. And this troll really did a once over on this thread

>>49814244
This post makes my dick hard

Seraphon here. Just played 2 v 1 with all our models, roughly equivalent points.

Mine:
1 Kroq-Gar on Carnasaur
1 Scar-Vet on Carnasaur
1 Stegadon w/ Starfire Throwers
1 Engine of the Gods
3 Kroxigor
32 Saurus Warriors (we decided to toss the 2 in at 10 points each to allow the full armies)
15 Saurus Cavalry
1 Old Blood on Cold One
1 Bastiladon with Solar Engine

Opponents:
1 Slaughterbrute
1 Bloodthirster
1 DP of Khorne
1 Soulgrinder
10 Bloodletters
1 Herald of Khorne
1 Skullcannon
3 Bloodcrushers

20 Plaguebearers
1 Herald of Nurgle
1 Rotbringer Lord of Plagues
3 Plague Flies (whatever they're called)
3 Nurglings

It was fairly close early game, but the saurus line held up long enough for the bastiladon to put out some serious hurt, taking down the Thirster and Soulgrinder before dying to the prince. The Nurgle troops and the saurus cavalry stuck together for most of the game, only finally collapsing in a saurus win in round 5. At the end, I had my EotG, Kroq-Gar and 9 Cavalry left on the field, vs. a Slaughterbrute and the Prince, both badly wounded. We called it in my favor.

So was this a fair matchup, or should we have done things differently?

Stormcast Behemoth when? IN THE NAME OF SIGMAR WHEN I SAY!?

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>>49817595

10/10 Would wargame with.

>>49811111
>AoS doesn't have any trap armies like 40k any of them are viable.
nah

khorne bloodbound a shit

doesnt matter how many buffs you stack you still cant kill saurus guard or bastiladons

>>49813728
There's nothing wrong with that, ignore the shitposters

>>49816998
Wanting to focus on playing the game instead of what the models look like doesn't make somebody a "powergaming WAAC faggot".

Some people like different things, fuck off retard

>>49816855
>Kurnoths
Archers are good, but not consistent unless you run at least 6 of them

Scythes are amazing. 2" range lets you run them as a squad of 6 and buff them with Mystic Shield, keep them healthy with Regrowth, and ressurect them with the battalion unique spell.

Swords are generally worse than Scythes but you can run them as a smaller 3man hit squad to take objectives and such

>Treelords
Treelord is a great defensive melee fighter if you give them Oaken Armor they can get to a 2+ save. Always worth the points you spend on them.

Durthu is a super powerful offensive melee fighter, one of the best in the game. Very high point cost though, and vulnerable to mortal wound/high rend focus fire. Hard to get the right engagement but when you get it you'll watch your enemy melt

Treelord Ancient is what you want to run as your general. Great spells, great command ability, decent defensive melee fighter.

>>49818770
Elves are already top tier, a proper release will put them over the top

>Loved playing Fantasy competitively back in the day
>Moved on before End Time, glanced at AoS but saw no interest as it was at release
>Figure the book with points has been out for a little while now, might be worth checking on the state of the game now
>Come to this thread


Holy fucking shit you guys are assholes. I'm glad I got out when I did.

You guys aren't wrong though that >>49811024 should look around and see if there is a local Warmahordes community, that's a community that allows you to enjoy ALL the parts of the hobby you like. You're even allowed to play to win!

I was gonna come to this thread and ask if the points system is balanced or not, but I guess that's irrelevant now.

>>49821614
Thread isn't usually full of shitters, not sure what is going on tonight

The AOS point system is actually really well balanced, arguably the best system GW has ever implemented. It's probably because they stole it nearly point-for-point from the SCGT and that system went through a year of rapid iteration and detailed community-driven feedback.

Every army is viable and has cool units and there are only a few units that are over/undercosted.

>>49821614
It is balanced. There are a few hiccups here and there, but it's pretty good for GW.

Also, the people swearing at that one guy definitely went too far.
Although I don't agree with him either.

I think there's a consensus on this general that those who play to win aren't enjoying
>ALL the parts of the hobby [they] like
due to prioritising winning over painting, conversion, modeling, or even playing: that is, they focus on building a better list over developing better tactics.

That's just what seems to be the prevailing opinion: that play-to-win = WAAC. That's not true, but there is a line separating them that some can't see, and they get aggressive about it.

>>49821673
>>49821721
Well that's something, Casual at all Cost is every bit as shitty as WAAC.

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Finished up my screaming bell, any ideas for the base? I'm not running pestilens so the nurgley swamp theme is out, I'm not sure what to do for the other clans

>>49813228
You haven't said anything wrong. Autists just being autists.

>>49823157
Cobblestone might be nice?
>>49822190
Casual at all cost and win at all cost might both be awful, but the moron above was a particularly egregious example of WAAC, and he wasn't even confronted all that much with demands to be casual, just the suggestion that it might be sensible to have a balance for the sake of everyone involved.
And, considering the WAAC attitude is what fundamentally killed WHFB and is well on its way to kill 40k, I cannot reproach anybody for cautioning a more chill approach to the game, anyway.

>>49822190
It is.
Extremes, generalisations and black-and-white morality systems are always shit, including this one.

I agree the new guy asking questions doesn't sound like a great fit for AoS if all he cares about is winning, & nothing about how his guys look, or what their story is. Some people are taking an aggressive approach to scaring him off before he's a bad influence on his local meta/scene.

He doesn't seem to get that most-all legal armies are competitive, and there are no trap choices like in 40K.

That being said, if someone knows how to win with basic Greenskins... then I'm all ears. Not having the 2nd wound the Bonesplitters have hurts, especially since you can't spam Mystic Shield from cheap-as-chips Grot Shamans to maximize their shield re-rolls. Also their Orruk Shaman and Warboss are got a big price increase when GW converted them over from SCGT points, & thus the Warboss on Wyvern is a comparatively better deal now. I also miss running an extra Warboss on boar standard-bearer for cheap to-Wound re-rolls . . .

>>49822190
Reread what the guy wrote. This wasn't CAAC. It was a guy saying that he's only interested in the winning part without caring about anything else and asking for the current netlist.

To which people suggested that if he didn't like painting, modeling and flavour, which are huge parts of the hobby, it could be better for him to look into another hobby.

>>49823408
Am sure that what killed WFB was not the fact that people were playing the game, but because GW decided through their last editions rules huge armies, which shot the cost of an entry army sky high, and because the secondery market for WFB was never as big as w40k marines, it was borderline impossible to get new players, and without a steady flow of those after 3 editions the sells grinded to lowest numbers ever.

>>49821614
>that's a community that allows you to enjoy ALL the parts of the hobby you like. You're even allowed to play to win!

>being other parts of the warmahordes hobby other than playing to win

>>49823634
Bull shit, there is no way GW gave good rules too all armies all models, even for the new factions. Some options are just clearly superior. Want examples? flying hammer dudes vs javelin flying dudes. Same unit, one is ok, the other is trap unit.

>>49823687
If it was only about winning people would be playing warmahordes only with cut out bases. They wouldn't buy models, as it would be a not needed extra cost to play the game. You know the way non profesional people don't were any protectors while playing rugby.

>>49823688
>flying hammer dudes vs javelin flying dudes. Same unit, one is ok, the other is trap unit.

What is the trap unit?

>>49823669
Aye, GW killed Fantasy and they did it long before end times.

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>>49823687
Yeah no one could ever like Warmahordes for the fluff or painting their models.

>>49823752
Are you denying that Warmahordes has a *very* competetive mindset?
I mean, I like the game, the fluff too (apart from the stupid ending to the last edition), but four or five years on I have never seen a game that wasn't utterly cut-throat, including the introductory games.

>>49823707
Neither are terribly amazing, but at least the javelin guys cost less and don't need to risk their necks in melee.

>>49823822
Absolutely not, it's does have a competitive mindset.

That's not a bad thing, and doesn't in any way mean that the painting and modeling can't be important too. PP have a line of really excellent RPGs for the flutt nuts (how I got into the game), as well they are expanding their publishing department to do more novels. They have painting comps at their conventions and in their magazine. And they do narrative campaigns.

Cut throat intro games are shitty intro games, but otherwise I enjoy that I can sit and paint, dive into the fluff, AND have a good competitive game.

>>49823688
Yes, of course there are options that are clearly superior, like Kurnoth Hunters with Scythes compared to Swords.

Still there is a big difference between "this option is statistically superior but if you want to play the other you can still have a fun game" and "this option is so fucking good everything else in the book could be just blank pages and this army would still curbstomp everything."

>>49823865
Ii's a matter of taste, I suppose. I used to play everything hyper-competetively, but I guess I have since mellowed out to the point where I barely ever play anything too seriously.
Which is not to imply this is somehow a better or more mature way to play games, please don't misunderstand. It's just that between all the real-world bullshit pressure I prefer the games during my precious free time to be more chill.
For that, I find AoS pretty great, since it plays fast and the community tends to be fairly laid-back.

>>49823665
Exactly, this is what triggered people, they weren't necessarily invented by the wanting to win, but the total lack of respect for the rest of the hobby, at which point people (quite rightly imho) suggested he look for a different hobby as this possibly wasn't the right choice for him. Then it spiralled a bit, but the main arguement stands.

The idea that aos has no top their is a carry over from points and the myth that the scgt points they copied in generals handbook are perfect as swiss cheese of course aos can be broken like any game people just haven't modeled painted or purchased enough stuff yet so all these looserss wondering out into the unknown swamps of aos are saying everything's good because they dont want all their painting and modeling before points and meta existed to go to waste. Its going to take like 2 years to know what's best but I'm doing fimir and maybe some wider distraction from 40k orks and then stormcast that I can counts as custodies or some thing n using my 30k gaurdsmen as free people riflmen so my choices are based for now on doubling up model use with 40k I'm going to stay away from chaos and death but con sidering a friendly ghost vibe for my syormcast cute haunted shit and bretonian bits. Apparently liberators are chaff and retrobuters are better need to work out some ideas to make them look good prob drenai stone shit from world of Warcraft. In 40k I'm a net listing cheese munger in aos I'm just sussing it out like everyone els these guys haven't played enough games and are taking hate out on you that they have spent 100$ of hours n still dont know how to win lewl

>>49823707
javelins + shields cost less but are prolly better, though 3 for $60 makes them pricey to spam, except for the HobbyKiller guy over in England . . .

>>49823688

give more examples. I'm not saying it's perfectly balanced, but most reasonable & legal armies are playable, assuming it's not a tiny Aelf faction/something obviously incomplete.

Though there does seem to be a bit of a powercreep with FEC & Sylvaneth getting unique allegiance traits, artefacts, and spells . . . though this recent focus on detecting shifts in the meta & "trap armies" sounds like 40K-refugees bringing their old game's mindset with them, rather than treating AoS as its own animal/community . . .

>>49823990
you have to be 18+ to post here, kiddo

or

learn2punctuate lewl

>>49821360
Warhammer was created for the hobby, not the other way around. The rules came as an excuse for people to play with their miniatures. You're a a cancerous waacfag who should consider chess but you are most likely too dumb for that.

>>49824045
>Telling people they are having fun wrong

Fuck off.

>>49824144
When your fun deprives other of their fun yes, you are having fun wrong.

>>49824178
What happened to 'just don't play that guy'?
Wasn't that the argument being trumpeted around here when people were pointing out how without points people could just bring 23 bloodthirsters?

>>49824144
>waac
>fun

Stirland would be ashamed of you.

>>49824421
Wanting to win =/= WAAC

>>49824440
He who shall not be named clearly didn't give a single shit about anything except winning.

I think most twenty something's play 40k n aos are doing so to take their video game fantasy's to real life and be part of a tradition priming your army pink n leaving it that way is fine as long as the primer is a suitable shade to show off the shadows n towns n details of the mini honestly most paint jobs annoy me but I did see a kid with a nice chimera IRL once

There's no way I'm touching my fw or gw shit with paint until I've learned on some cheaper plastics or metal I can practice on over n over ruining a 5k collection with converting n paint is a eyesore I've seen it before in Australian priced plastic a true travisty

I think what most people mean when winning is a fun army which is subjective n they want to focus on rules first then fluff then lore then paint paint might be half of gw sales but most people like 3d models not pots of dick shaped paint

I use p3 paint with fake fw stickers on it so I can paint in store

>>49824497
>>49824513
>>49824526
>>49824531

What?

>>49824513
check out reaper bones for some real cheap miniatures to practice on. alternatively, you could invest in some simple green or ask the W.I.P thread for other plastic safe paint stripers.

>>49798383
Anybody still have the reading order for the novels?

>>49824497
>>49824513
>>49824526
>>49824531
Dude, what are you trying to say here?

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>>49824768
The image is kinda outdated, but BL has a handy guide on their site.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/aos-reading-order.html

>>49824937
Thanks

>>49824876
Some people paint skills, are so low, that it actualy makes it harder to play with them painted, then playing with them in grey.

>>49824045
When in started to exist in the 90s in my country, it was a table top game. It was there to be played in and outside of tournaments, and because GW was never realy good with scenarios or FAQs, tournament rules packs became more or less part of the rules. And that kept to be true, when new table top game system came, and went away. Painting or modeling was never the focus for majority of people. Now this doesn't mean there were people from my country who didn't attend golden demon, had paint studios or cast their own models or model parts. Some of them have crazy free hand paint skills, and but no expects that a "true" GW games players is suppose to try to have the same level of skill, and be happy about the game only if he lost it.

>>49821439
Treelords aren't heroes, they can't use Oaken Armour. If someone tells you otherwise, they are cheating.

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This hobby isnt MTG, you dont dump all your stuff every few months to chase a new set of rules.
I think the sports analogy works best, If your teams losing you dont dump them for the top team. You need a sense of pride and allegiance.

>>49798545
good ol' dorfs army

>>49825165
I don't know how it works in your country, but in my if a team doesn't make it to first league, then the city will take away its stadion/facilities and give it to a team that has good resoults. So while technicly it is possible to be a fan of a team in 4-5th league, those teams don't realy have where to play, and after 2-3 years of vegetation outside of first league, they stop existing. We had teams that were founded pre WWII that ended after a year outside of first league. So in my country if a team loses a lot, you may still be its fan, but the team will no longer be there after 2-3 years.

>>49824045
>STOP HAVING FUN WITH YOUR TOYS REEEEEEEE

Fuck off faggot

>>49824045
That is actually wrong. In an interview with the person who made warhammer, he clearly says he was told to make a game that involved a lot of miniatures, since the RPG miniatures GW sold at the time were selling to slowly.

The rules were made first, then the miniatures made to fit. At some point GW reversed their perspective though, and they focus more on the hobby than the game.

>>49825097
>My shithole country that only got GW products in the 90ies is the definition of the game.

>>49826599

I think they're noticing that with AOS and 30k that the balanced rules drive model sales. I think that paradigm is going to change again soon

>>49826317
Again. Your Shithole country is not the be all and end all of sports.

Nobody cares about your third world retard shit.

>>49825148
Oh fuck me you're right

We have been playing it wrong this whole time

>>49826317
What sort of communist dictatorship do you live in where the government controls sports and penalises fans?

For the skaven players here, what's the best way of dealing with enemy artillery and long range shooting such as high elf bolt throwers?

>>49826779

Warp lightning cannon

Jezzails

>>49826794
can you target the crew with things like jezzails and warp lightning cannos so long as you can see them? Problem with using the cannon though is that the bolt throwers can stay out of its range :c

>>49826713
What? We are dominating in all non gay sports, and more then a few gay ones too.
It looks like you don't know much about real world white boy.
>>49826698
Well depends what balance suppose to mean. What is important is that all or most factions get multiple good unit choices. The problem with GW is that they do some factions with 3-4 units that are worth taking, and other factions with 10+. And suddenly there are tons of butt hurt people, because some may not want to play those 3-4 good units, while others get bored fast with a list with little variation.
At the same time the factions with 10+ good units are called WAAC and OP, which is loltastic condiering those are the factions GW did good.

>>49826779
WLC, jezzails, grinder team+ stormfiemds, stormfiends in general.

Shooting is something skaven fares poorly against, it's ability to vomit wounds with little danger means your rats will run in droves. They make up for this by being mobile and having crippling firepower at medium range.

Also storm fiends can have a 2+ save against shooting if there's no rend at you mystic shield them

>>49826838

Yes crew are a seperate unit from the artillery

Jezzails have a range of 30" and a 6" move, even if the bolt thrower shoots you from exactly 36" away you can still shoot back. You only have to kill one of its 4+ save crew to halve its shots and if you kill both, it's completely dead.

>>49826839

That in 30k the difference between cheese lists and normal lists isn't enormous and the stuff that's really good tends to be very expensive points wise.
It is very much not the current state of 40k.

>>49826839
Ok, what exactly is a "gay sport"

>>49826838
Yes, you can. The Warmachine and the Crew are actually two different units in terms of targeting etc

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>>49826839

>all non gay sports

>brown people being proud of poverty ball

>>49821614
Let me get this straight, you are turning away from a game based entirely on one stupid argument...on 4chan?

I'm calling bullshit. It doesn't seem like you were going to give this game a shot at all, and were just looking for an excuse not to.

>>49826940
gymnastics for example. Although we dominated female gymanastics this year olympics too.

>>49827014
I'll give you that, non university basketball kind of a sucks. Point for you my Pepe friend.

>>49824754
Slightly off topic, but I've recently learned that isopropyl alcohol works wonders. Just dab a cottonball /q-tip with it and it rubs paint right off. Great for those second-hand models you might pick up on the cheap.

>>49826914
>That in 30k the difference between cheese lists and normal lists isn't enormous and the stuff that's really good tends to be very expensive points wise.
It is very much not the current state of 40k.

Even in w40k the game seems more balanced when you play something like eldar, the imperial super friends or demon super coalition.
But you are right about w30k, it is a lot more balanced.
I think AoS has such problems too. On on side people spit on those who use mass range units, but on the other side there is no other good way to play empire, specialy considering the models people actualy own for that sub faction.

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>>49826839
>What? We are dominating in all non gay sports, and more then a few gay ones too.
>It looks like you don't know much about real world white boy.

>>49827156

US teams don't disappear when they lose, in fact that tends to endear fans. The US is the epitome of losing teams staying around.

Unless you're implying the US didn't completely own women's gymnastics this year at the olympics

>>49827184

For free guilds specifically you can have ranged units without going full ranged skew. Greatswords, generals on griffons and Demigryphs are excellent units.

No one is going to hate you for a unit of 20 handgunners, they'll hate you for 3 units of 40 handgunners

>CAACfags
>nationalistic dickwaving about the olympics
>homophobia

What the fuck happened in the last 48 hours

>>49827156
>gymnastics for example

This is fair. Though I do with male gymnastics used music during the floor routine. I think that would really bring their hotness to a whole new level.

>>49827236
Most of it seems to be coming from a couple of guys, since I am sure the strangely nationalistic asshole isn't the WAAC newbie from last night.

>>49827237
>with
*wish ... I wish male gymnastics...

>>49827216
But 3 units of 40 are more efficient then 20 plus crap stuff. runing one unit only works if you are 100% sure, that no one ever will buy and bring an optimised list. And if you happen to play in a such an enviroment kudos to you. Everyone else have to buy and build lists, thinking about most optimal set ups.
>US teams don't disappear when they lose, in fact that tends to endear fans. The US is the epitome of losing teams staying around.
In China they do.
>Unless you're implying the US didn't completely own women's gymnastics this year at the olympics
China was better. Unless your implying that giving first place to a male looking chimp, was not because judges are PC fagots.

>>49827449

>more efficient

More skewy, it's not even very fun to play as, I'm speaking from experience. You'll beat casual lists easily and then die horribly to lists that can counter you.

Greatswords are phenomenal melee infantry, I wouldn't write them off as crap.


also spotted the HK poster.

>>49826317
sounds awful 2bh lad

>>49827449

What a surprise, peasants are zero fun in sports or games.

>>49827449

Ranged spam empire isn't particularly competitive, it's a noob stomping list. Handgunners die extremely easily to enemy shooting.

Free guilds are quite good but they like a more balanced approach with some Collegiate Arcanum help.

New thread
>>49827693
>>49827693
>>49827693