>Eclipse Phase PDFs http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclip s

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Ah, shit, I left the tagline off. Mobileposting, sorry.

Does anyone have the full piece of art for the "Lack" story? I can only find segments of it.

And now that I think of it, is there a gallery for all of the game's art?

>>49752824
>Where were you during the Fall?
Getting high on scitzo and doing some VR MMA with a friend. #HyperEliteLife

>>49752845

It's cool, bro. You can still ctrl+f "Eclipse Phase" in the catalog.

You forgot link to the previous thread.

>>49676933
>>49676933
>>49676933
>>49676933
>>49676933

So I don't get it. The game says you can install mobility systems, but how fast do they go?

>>49753352
>Does anyone have the full piece of art for the "Lack" story?

I'm not sure what you mean. Lack is in the core rulebook, and if you're talking about that story and that art, it's literally right there, ready to be pulled out of the .pdf.

>>49753499
Yes but it's split up into two parts, I'm looking for the FULL image.

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>>49753514
Easy-peasy to pull out, so I did it for you and reassembled it in Photoshop.

>>49753482
There's a table for them in Transhuman, page 218. Default is 4/20 though.

>>49753482

Speed is measured in mphs under walking/running parameters that always appear below the implant.

If you're referring to acceleration... idk.

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>>49753541
Samefag here. Literally anything seems to be easily pulled out of the core rulebook, at least, and it seems like it's been assembled by someone that actually knows their shit, as opposed to, say, Fantasy Flight Games, which veers between good shit and horrific shit, .pdf-wise.

I swear, some .pdf:s have been assembled by fucking monkeys and then deliberately shat upon just so you can't pull assets out of them and use them for roleplaying.

What knowledge skills do you like to have or use?

>>49753541
Thanks, man. I was planing on piecing it together myself. I'm doing a class assignment on EP and thought this would go good.

>>49753745
>a class assignment on Eclipse Phase

This can only possibly end well.

>>49753768
It's a presentation about whatever topic we want. I'm not even supposed to present either, just hand it in.

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>>49753745
>I'm doing a class assignment on EP

What grade/level, what kind of class, and why?

I had a friend do a powerpoint-presentation on D&D not long ago and you've already beaten him just by using that image and choosing a not-shit system to present.

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>>49753831
>I'm not even supposed to present either, just hand it in.

Well that's just sad.

>>49753476
You also forgot the catchy title, fagit.

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Whats the shittiest morph?

>>49754604
Case

It's canon.

Your mind is your own. Claim it.
Your body is your heritage. Own it.
Death is human. Embrace it.
Extinction is on all sides. FIGHT IT.

Jovians for life.

>>49754604

Cases are the most obvious answer, the only excuse for them is price(which makes for a nice cheap army of robots massing into you)

Suryas are very location specific and their only purpose is not look nice and show off how extreme the science is in the eclipse phase world.

>>49754709
> not look
>*look

whups!

>>49754709
>Suryas are very location specific and their only purpose is not look nice and show off how extreme the science is in the eclipse phase world.

Kind of like the Q-Morph, which doesn't even really manage to look nice. I'm sure that one time in that one game where you're going to need to visit the surface of Venus, it's going to come in handy, but even then there's only one option - the Q-Morph. At least a trip to the Sun can give you a few options (Surya, Sundiver, or forking out for a Solar Survival Suit) for morphs!

>>49754803
You can also use a Venus Suit for the Venusian surface.

>>49753922
Lol. That file name.

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>>49754881
True, I rather forgot about them - I guess I'd be so excited about having an opportunity to sleeve into a Q-Morph in a game that I forgot you can pretty much ignore it entirely if you want to grab the relevant survival suit.

>>49754942
The downside of a Venus Suit is that a bad hit turns into an instant kill-they are breached if you take 30 or more damage from an attack. You're faster with one, but need to be more careful with where you go.

>>49754709
It's not even that good of an excuse, the basic pod is about the same price and better.

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>>49754658
>>49754709
It's interesting to note that Cases cost 5 CP, while Flats are fucking free.

Both should be free, honestly.

>>49755538
Flats don't have a stack, body armor or a built in computer.

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>>49754803
>Kind of like the Q-Morph

I can see the reason for the Q-Morph, though. It serves a realistic function, somehow.

The Suryas and the Salamanders really seems to only exist to showcase how "high science fiction" Eclipse Phase is, as in presenting something extremely novel or unique on principle, straight out of an episode of Star Trek.

It just feels needless and meaningless, without function. Eclipse Phase really don't push it's strengths. It's trying to do just a little bit too much and when it manages to focus, it's through a distorted lens of social justice.

It could've benefited from being just a little bit more grounded in both it's themes and it's narrative.

Are there any eclipse phase games recruiting?

>>49755565

But they don't have the lemon trait aka "GM says that you have a -60 to social interaction because your arm started masturbating itself"

Also, cases are meat for TITANs.

>>49755667
That's up to GM discretion. My argument still stands that they have things flats don't.

>>49755665
There's a couple living world campaigns, neither of which are good.

>>49752824
>Where were you during the Fall?

On a stolen ship heading off planet, with my big bro and the old gang.

You don't want to know how the gang broke up and my big bro died because of me.

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>>49755565
>Flats don't have a stack, body armor or a built in computer.

No, that's true, but honestly if you're in a Flat, you're in a Flat for a reason. Same would go for a Case.

You're in a Case or a Flat because you need to be for some reason, and Cases are about as shitty as they come. They're basically the most basic synthmorph there is. Cases would just be the synthmorph version of a Flat.

>>49755887
>wat.png
That's how spacers roll, flatlander.

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>>49752824
>Where were you during the Fall?

I wasn't even born yet. I was born on the Doyle-Siegel server cluster, on Y Sigma-5, under the watchful eye of Cognite. Fast-forward 3 years and I'm covered in blood, running for my life.

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So, where's all the francophones at? Is it possible to nanofabricate snails?

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Yeah, I could share the images without commentary, but why would I?

>>49756274
They tried surrendering. It didn't work out very well.

>>49756274
The last of them died out around 2030. Never even saw the Fall.

>>49755665
>>49755777
https://www.reddit.com/r/EPMissions/

>>49756274
Qurain

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>>49755665
Depends. Are you autistic?

Getting games on an anon board is always a fucking gamble and there's no way to send info without sharing it with a small ocean of retards.

>>49756430

I'm not autistic to my knowledge, and that's what throwaways are for.

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I need ideas for exoplanets. Show me what you got /epg/.

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>>49756592

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>>49756592

I made, a long time ago and with some blender and a tutorial I just made the image for an explanet for my game.

The game is suposed to be taking place in some hellish world, but superprofitable thanks to the high ammount of fisionable materials behind the crust that are enough big to even power a small level of tectonic activity(marginal)

The planet has a moon, called Cerberus where the Pandora Gate is located but its a copy paste of the moon.

Now the point about the planet is not the planet itself but the sun, that turns out that is highly energetic and reacts with the atmosphere creating highly energetic ion particles that descend into the surface, react with almost anything and then goes back into the upperatmosphere, not fast enough to create wind but rather for a slow and constant erosion, so for example; the terrain in the planet is constantly changing and the lack of tectonic activity made the surface very flat meaning that getting lost is a death sentence, a very slow and painfull death sentence because there is not enough oxygen to breathe.

To add more fluff to the thing I added biocupules in zones where comets crashed, these zones, over the time, started acumulating snow that at certain point became deep enough to protect wathever was below, and snow being water gives me the oportunity to create exotic life. Biocupules are where this life developes and there are 245 around the whole planet, specially around the equator where the temperature are mere -10Cº. To let the biocupules survive in this enviroment I even created a cycle of constant renovation between the material the atmosphere corrodes and precipitates into the ground around the biocupule and silica-based bacteria that constantly moves that material to the top.

The point of the biocupules is to also apply the theory of living systems, so the biocupules enclose a special enviroment within themselves but with a constant cycle between the diferent lifeforms recycling themselves.

>>49756798
So the ecology inside everybiocupule accomplish every function of a living organism without being clearly an organism by themselves(you have extractors, you have asimilators... you even have information storage and procesing to regulate how much material is being recycled around), and every biocupule is isolated so the enviroment they hold inside is very different from one to another, like going to alps and later to the Sahara.

So for example; next to the start one of the points was that there was a biocupule with a huge cavern(1km, formed by the bacteria pool at the bottom that introduce mater and some energy into the system) and next to it there was anglesite(a mineral containing lead) which could yield around half a million credits almost inmidiatly if you broke the biocupule and started extracting without using your own caver(yo add a twist the colony had jovians that NEEDED to protect themselves from the radiation this sun was generating and going underground was the only solution, so it wasn't just about a economy/ecology thing)

The surface, as despicted, is somewhat orange and the snow has some green reflection(so I could constantly remind them that the sun is blue and colors vary in this world).

The green clouds are one of the other dangers of this world, these clouds are supercorrosive and they couldn't be investigated because they are so corrosive that even getting close desintegrates everything, these clouds move in predictible path dropping a corrosive rain that constantly changes the enviroment around. In reality these clouds are the leftovers of a TITAN experiment for lifeforms capable of eating entire planets by changing the atmosphere and forming clouds that destroys everything along their path and keep growing, so they are kind of sentient and can be directed if it happens that you are a TITAN and recognize the instructions left by the other TITAN about how to use these clouds(so yes, the entire planet is a trap)

>>49756950

If that wasn't enough, every so often the planet gets closer to the asteroid belt of this system(I made this a recent change introducing the small gravitic fluctuations of a rebel gas planet captured in this system) adding asteroid fall to the list of dangers(but at least somewhat predictible.

The reasons about why anyone would try to do anything here are already stated. The ammount of fissionables are accesible and huge, since the autonomist alliance would lack these materials, their value means reputation and richness and also a way to balance things since the planetary consortium is a industrial juggernaut(or can be more easily since it controls both Mars and Mercury)

To make sure that the colony is not taken away by other influences I made this a logistical firewall operation, so from time to time players gets requests for special equipment or shipment of things without having to hide as many things as they would in Sol.

But, back to the planet. In other things, the planet is also a copy of the planet Earth in terms of gravity and presssure, but lacks the magnetosphere(So I can pull the highly energetic sun trick and radiation that is only dangerous to non-genefixed/medichined people), that also means that you at least an SSTO to get inside since the Pandora Gate is in Cerberus but that only adds more paranoia since bringing a SSTO through a Pandora Gate is so hard and expensive that its destruction, even with so much economic potential, would almost mean the end of the colony(oh yes, I added Ozhma saboteurs to the mix, just for even more fun).

I have more details about how the biocupules work(at least the outer protective wall), or how to overcome the problematic atmosphere(basically a mix of a careful material study and a repulsive current), but you only asked about exoplanets so here is mine.

How *do* you run a gatecrashing campaign? Seems even more complex than a regular one.

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>>49757114

Something like this, I guess.

>>49757144
I actually convinced one of the guys in my group to try out EP with that pic.

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>>49757214
Not surprising. It's the weirdest fucking thing. I'm not sure it makes sense even in Eclipse Phase, honestly. But it's one of those things that's possible to do, somehow, so I guess it works.

As someone that hasn't played much at all yet, it's unlikely we'll be playing a gatecrashing game anytime soon, but it's definitely got potential.

>>49757348

X-Risk has T-Rex stats. What more could you need.

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Apparently this is how some of the interiors of the moon looks like these days.

>>49757426
That's actually pretty neat.

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>>49757114
>boss says the local fauna may be a little aggressive, but hopefully nothing the morphs can't handle

>>49757114
Well for now I'm playing a a colony of extropian nature with paranoid jovians, greedy extropians, extremist anarchists, close to exhuman ultimates and workalcoholic argonauts. So they use the Pandora Gate under a private contract(to simplify things as possible in the relationshipt between Gatekeeper and this extrasolar mine that is almost a goldmine), and don't have to answer to Gatekeeper so they can focus directly on what happens on the colony.

>>49753602
>filename
iunderstoodthatreference.gif

>>49755665
Well i might need/want another player for a game on sundays

>>49752824
>Where were you during the Fall?

I was doing a cyber-security survey for a Lunar bank. My San Diego-based company sent me to Luna just a few days before everything went truly to hell. People sometimes ask me if I was a Fall Evacuee. I tell them that I beat the rush.

>>49755887
>Cases would just be the synthmorph version of a Flat.
If you want a bottom o' the barrel comparison sure, but just remember that synths don't feel pain, don't need to eat/breath, are faster to swap out of and repair.

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>>49756274
They're a bunch of sand niggers in the martian outback.

>>49759736

What's the details? You can email, like, the pitch/times/how to get in contact with you to [email protected]

>>49756584
>I'm not autistic

He said, as he replied to a post about transhumanist role playing games on a Mongolian Claymation BBS

>>49760180
An excellent vintage, that meme.

>game chat devolves into borderline ERP in front of my horrified eyes

Is it true that we're all perverts in the EP fandom?

>>49752824
Operating Operationally in Operations... Also I may or may not still be down there... never found out if I survived...

>>49760180
>not an Extropian XP meshgroup

Ded thread?

>>49755633
>The Suryas and the Salamanders really seems to only exist to showcase how "high science fiction" Eclipse Phase is

I'd say it feels about as meaningless and needless as a lot of the other stuff that's in the game. Which is to say, for me, it exists to help demonstrate the varied ways in which people have adapted to live differently with the help of technology. Technology allows the brinkers to live out in isolation, nomads to live on Titan, scum to live lives of hedonism and Solarians to science about the sun.

It's part of the whole science fiction thing of asking how technology impacts society and the people within it; a game about transhumanism ought to be showing various amounts of moving beyond the physical limitations of the human body, and the sorts of societies that can be made out of that. You could surely run a game of Eclipse Phase where the sun-based stuff is entirely written out, and I imagine a majority of games don't feature all that stuff particularly often, but it fits the theme and narrative of the game perfectly well.

I'd argue that the Jovians are more needless and meaningless; a faction which runs counter to the transhumanist theme, which ends up making them come across initially as cartoon villains. Except a lot of people have a hard-on for them, because apparently rejecting all the core themes of the game is far better than a faction (or factions) that show off the very transhuman idea that we should be overcoming our physical limitations and enjoying the opportunities such a thing grants.

>>49752824

Destroying a rapidly falling Hab so it burns up before striking the space port.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xtUyn9M9mE

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So, what's a good way to make credits in Eclipse Phase? I have a massive, massive 60k debt to The Vory on Titania, with a huge weekly interest.

I also have a comfurt yoghurt addiction and I'm running out of hits in 2 days.

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A Psi Sleight with a range of touch can be delivered as part of an unarmed attack with a positive modifier of -20 to the test, because you're just trying to touch someone.

Does this mean that I can perform a Psi Sleight with a range of Touch as part of a regular unarmed attack, too, if I forego the -20 modifier for just trying to touch someone?

Because if so, I've got some 1d10+3 Densiplast Shock Gloves that are begging to be stacked on top of a 2d10+3 Psychic Stab.

And Scorch, I swear this was not part of my plan when making the character. Please forgive me.

>>49765371
Sell forks of yourself into indenture.

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>>49757144
>>49757214
More dinos. To be fair, I'd rather have dinos than dindus.

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>>49765427
...but wouldn't forks and morphs for them be expensive? Also, it sorta sounds like selling yourself into slavery.

Not sure I could do that to myself without feeling a great deal of resentment. Also, I'm pretty sure my forks would lose their shit. And also, I'd make a really bad servant with my list of mental disorders.

Drop a plate on the floor next to me and the gun comes out. I was in.. 'nam. 'Nam. That's where I was. That's a place, right? Bad place, the kind that gives you PTSD or something, right? Ha ha yeah, 'Nam, good times.

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>>49765427
>>49765515
And by good times I mean bad times, very, very bad times. Horrific. Yup, 'Nam. Fighting the desert corps. Danger behind every 'scraper, dodging nanite clusters like you wouldn't believe.

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I will give this thread CPR until someone wakes up and shares my interests or I get bored. This I swear.

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>>49765515
>And also, I'd make a really bad servant with my list of mental disorders.

No need to limit yourself to being a servant; the indentured life can grant you access to some of the most rewarding forms of labour the market has to offer. Why, your forks will be helping transhumanity by building new habitats, colonising exoplanets, sucking the dicks of visiting managers, mining asteroids and setting fire to the homes of people who stand in the way of terraforming projects!

Indentured labour - the only lifestyle choice you'll ever need, or get, to make until your contract runs out!

>>49765688
I appreciate the effort. I think all our posters are in the same time zone.

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>>49767094
It kinda feels like it. I bet all the fans of Eclipse Phase are PST faggots. Don't tell my GM or he'll get ideas of a temporally homogenized gaming group.

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>>49765371
>I also have a comfurt yoghurt addiction and I'm running out of hits in 2 days.
This won't help you make credits but instead of paying [Low] cost per dose of Comfurt, instead consider paying [Low] plus [Trivial] for Comfurt-loaded Capsule ammunition; remember that ammo costs are per 100 rounds.

Now all you need is a cheap pistol to administer each dose. I recommend leg shots, to avoid accidentally hitting any vital organs. You can use the credits you've saved to install medichines and speed up the healing process after each dose!

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>>49767325
From an optimization perspective, I considered doing that, and I considered getting a Comfurt drug gland, but it just felt like I was abusing the system, and instead of an interesting and funny addiction to a yoghurt, it was just a boost, avoiding the negatives.

Had the addiction been to a more.. drug-y drug, like painkillers or heroin or combat stims, I might've considered it, but for my Comfurt addiction... no, I realize I'm (not) shooting myself in the foot (no pun intended) but I just can't bring myself to doing it.

I might get a drug gland later (having deliberately ended up ignoring it on creation), if my character ever can afford it on his own, and play it off as it just producing the same active chemical or something, or get some therapy and detox or something (I have the addiction both as a trait and as a disorder) but I don't think I'll go for yoghurt-shot capsule ammunition.

>>49767274
>4 windows
It's shit.

>>49764346
The devs blatantly disregard the need for cooling. The sundiver should be the only "solarian" morph and there should be a stated limit to how much time they can last in the corona itself.


>>49765371
>>49767577
>I gibbed myself horribly at character creation and have no plan for surviving the week
>how do I hold it together with bubblegum and paperclips until I get the things I should have started with?
You should have had a maker and a comfurt blueprint. alternatively, if you can find some Scum, you can just suck dick. One of them is bound to have a drug gland (cumfurt). The favors you can get from sucking dick should be worth something in credits.

>>49767325
>>49767577
>>49768249
Now this is the /epg/ I know and love.

What would be the appropriate penalties for Social Stigma (manlet)? One of the characters got sleeved in a flat under 6', and I really don't think that the normal -30 is enough. I'm of the opinion that straight on autofailing on most social rolls involving positive impression isn't that far-fetched, but one player (not surprisingly manlet himself) voiced disapproval and obviously got shot down, reinforcing the point.

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>>49768336
>Social Stigma: Cuck

>>49768367
Well obviously they would be cuck too, but there's mechanically no point in stacking two social stigmas. Though I could throw that in there as well for a good measure, good catch.

Is it reasonable to have a Jovian character who is a jesuit priest, who is not in a flat (because they were an original space colonist, part of the first wave of Jesuits out to minister, so they're in at least a splicer, maybe an exalt; the Vatican is rich after all), and who actually doesn't have much issue with a lot of transhuman technology, under the logic that people are still people and people still need faith and ministry, and is only Jovian because that's where the Vatican is?

>>49768528
No.

If your Jovian character isn't a two-dimensional caricature, you're doing it wrong.

>>49768528

Well they should have no problems with splicers at least. And even exalt/specialist as long as it has no face "surgery".

Though for anything above splicer you'll need a good reason to have it - it's mostly reserved for military, engineers and other dangerous professions. Also no reproductive function - please leave your base DNA at our medical facility.

>>49768692

Well, the idea was it was going to be the body they were in when they left earth the first time, which would probably have been pretty good; the vatican is rich and jesuits are probably the most pragmatic type of catholic (not to mention nicest. I've never met a jesuit that wasn't bro as fuck).

>>49760142
sent ya an email.

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>>49768528
By the core game representation of the Jovian Republic, that's a terrible, awful concept, and you should be ashamed of thinking of making a person that is a Jovian and at the same time a relatively reasonable person. Also, because the character is religious in a time of transhumanity, you are stupid and retarded and the concept is literally microaggressive.

But, in reality, it sounds like a pretty solid concept to me. The Jovian Republic evidently employs and uses Splicers and other "normal" morphs, and I think an Exalt is perfectly within the norm.

I'm not sure how they'd feel about uploading, however, and having backups is potentially a pretty big no-no, both as a Jovian and as a christian - unless you want to be a radical and argue that the soul is immaterial, tied to your true self, and transcendent from any destruction of the body, and therefore does not even need to be "transferred" when consiousness moves between here and there.

But that's probably too fucking reasonable of a rationale to make it in Eclipse Phase.

>>49768711
>the most pragmatic type of catholic (not to mention nicest. I've never met a jesuit that wasn't bro as fuck).

Speaking christians in general, Jesuits and Mormons are fucking chill in terms of not being in your face and sperging out.

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>>49768249
>Scum
But I'm on the moon!

And yeah, I realize I fucked myself on character creation, and I realize I'm going to have to hold it together with bubblegum and paperclips until I get things I could've started with.

This is entirely intentional.

Is there such a thing as dysfunctional character creator syndrome? I think I may have that. My last character was literally a Shallyan priest in a warhammer fantasy game. Yeah, Shallya is the pacifist one. I felt awful when I had to kill someone once.

>>49768711

Well the most practical variant is probably custom built Specialist Pod (WIL +10, SOM +5).

Exalt with the face remade to that of a flat is okay too.

Splicers are basically next generation of Jovian population but they are explicitly done through gene-recombination of flats. Gattaca basically.

Also - your cortical stack probably will be removed. Jovians keep them on the same basis as bodies above splicer. You don't get one unless you absolutely need it.

>>49768789

>I'm not sure how they'd feel about uploading, however, and having backups is potentially a pretty big no-no, both as a Jovian and as a christian

Military, engineers and other people working in potentially life-threatening occupations can get stacks or backups. Sometimes even both. Diplomats and other high-ranking individuals who cost to high to replace on the spot have them too.

>>49768862
>>Also - your cortical stack probably will be removed. Jovians keep them on the same basis as bodies above splicer. You don't get one unless you absolutely need it.
>No Cortical Stack is a 10 point morph drawback
>Splicers are 5 CP
>Cortical stacks are [Moderate]
>???
>Profit!

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I have a party of two who don't want to be sentinels but instead bounty hunters. how do I make this interesting in a setting where no one ever orders death and niggas store their soul in the base of their spine

>>49768982

>Bounty Hunters
>In a setting where 'take him alive' just includes not blowing up the stack.

Yeah, I think that can work.

>>49768512
Sorry kid, but I'm not referring to your character...

>>49768982

Spawn Killing. Getting access to their funds. Stealing physical items. Morph theft. Brains on ice delivery.

Bounty Hunters will need to diversify.

I tried to DM a game about a bunch of mercenaries trying to stop Jovian diplomat from getting foothold on the Belt. They were paid to come with ways to stop Jovian mission through any means necessary but with minimal collateral damage to non-Jovian assets. As a Jovian diplomat travelled by spaceship so catching up was not a problem.

But this freeform style and EP setting is what killed the game. Everything died at the goup planning stage when they throwing ideas about how to get to the task. Just too much for people new to the game.

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>>49768918
>Military, engineers and other people working in potentially life-threatening occupations can get stacks or backups. Sometimes even both. Diplomats and other high-ranking individuals who cost to high to replace on the spot have them too.

Fair point, and it makes sense, albeit somewhat hypocritical. However, the jesuit priest would be none of these things.

>>49769037
Yes, the manlet player hilariously has in fact been cucked irl, but that's really neither here nor there. What's your point? You got any ideas for the penalties besides just the autofail? I'm looking for this to be something that makes the player want to resleeve asap, and while the autofailing pretty much achieves that it falls a little... flat.

>>49769172
I'm not referring to your players either ;^)

>>49769201
Soo... just shitposting then?

>>49769158

>albeit somewhat hypocritical

That depends. Officially Jovians are not a theocracy and religion has no say in politics. Security is the real boss here.

So actually controlled stacks and nannys is a Security directive that uses religion to make it easier to enforce rules on general population. And considering X-risks it's a good idea that prevents fast spreading of things like Basilisk strain or getting stacks infected by some other shit into habitats without proper control.

>>49769262
Am I being sidetracked by an assblasted manlet? Please tell me I'm not being sidetracked by an assblasted manlet.

In any case, what I'm trying achieve is showing that even when manletism (among other genetic defects) is genefixed, the cultural heritage of transhumanity at large still retains the memories of contempt for the lesser beings among them. Even people sleeved in neotenics and thus technically shorter would unconsciously flinch away from the offending non-person, quite similar to blanks/pariahs in wh40k.

>>49769546
There are numerous advantages to being a manlet in a space habitat or equivalent environment (largely the same as there are for being a neotenic, though to a lesser degree). It's not unreasonable to assume that in the earlier phases of the interplanetary age, before most of the problems associated with spaceflight were tackled by technology, corporations and space programs would have actively favored manlets for crewing orbital and deep space installations.

As such, the space colonist subculture would harbor no prejudice against manlets, and since original space colonists are disproportionately represented in the post-Fall population, this attitude would be pervasive within the wider population as well.

>>49768789
>>49768918
>>49769158
>Jovians, religion, souls and uploading
In the transhuman space future, most people who believe that the soul is a metaphysical construct that you get only one of and goes to Heaven when you die probably use a combination of destructive uploads and upload-to-resleeve continuity to maintain the illusion of continuity that lets them believe their immortal and irreproducible magic life spark jumped bodies with them. Backups are probably fair game for most church-going Jovians that can afford them - I'm sure God doesn't count it if you die with a copy of your ego ready to be re-instanced.

I'd imagine only the hard-core believers and the Luddites would truly shun backups and resleeving.

>>49769093
>Everything died at the goup planning stage when they throwing ideas about how to get to the task.
How is that a problem? In my experience planning is a whole session on it's own and the action comes next week.

>>49769546
>40kid
The airlock is that way.

>>49769710

Should have steered them better. Or juggled around order in which diplomat would visit habitats. Instead they tried to start with Horeb (the Israeli habitat) which is at best one step down from Jovian paranoia. They did find ways to get there but they were also trying to get more information about Jovians at the same time beyond ship name and trajectory (the found a way to obtaibn it too).

Game kind of died at this stage. Too much new stuff to jump from D&D like games at once.

>>49769158

> albeit somewhat hypocritical

Nope.

Jovians are flexible enough to be wathever you need them to be, they can be your usual redneck nutjobs that oposes the entire solar system because they are so backward and retrograde that they just "dont get it".

Or they can be a more complex political faction that resulted from military origins and survived an entire apocalypsis, that as far they know is far from over, so they keep security as the main pillar of society. So they don't reject technology, they just feel that any for nanotechnology(that can result easily in a grey bomb) and automated control should be minimized and heavily restricted(and judging by the manual electronic systems are meat for TITANS so they are kinda right there), and all levels of society should be controled just in case they face a more insidious threats like medusa attacks or infiltrator agents, that as we saw in the fall, can be as destructive as a nuclear bomb.

So its not like they despise technology, they don't trust it, think about it like in 1914 when chlorine gas was deployed, and was so horrible that its use was banned and Fritz Haber ended up in ostracism. Now imagine that AIs using nanotechnology as their main weapon, destroyed the home planet of humanity in a question of months(and they defeated most government forces in weeks)

And now realize who are the only rational guys in the whole eclipse phase universe.

>>49769901

Also having a shitton of antimatter and battleships helps. "Do you have any arguments to backup your claims?" "Yes. Antiproton particle accelerators."

>>49769546

Manlets.
>Weight less than normal people
>Consume less oxygen
>Ocupy less volume
>Require less energy to work on.

Also, thats without taking into account that in EP where everymorph is produced in a wet assembly line and looks almost the same, using a slightly different morph means that you are either so rich or famous that you can afford a personalized morph or that you have good taste and practicality in mind.

Because a manlet is extremely usefull in spaceships where the most uncomfortable part in design is to acomodate the crew. In fact, has been proposed that for early long term space travels only women should do these trips for this very exact reason; carrying food, oxygen and space for a crew is hard and require complex vital systems.

And even if you say that "lol, just use a synth" then the advantage of volume would still apply(no don't come with the swarmanoid it can't manipulate anything, also forget about infomorphs they depend on teleoperation if its even there).

>>49769707
I thought about that too, but for me it's just impossible to suspend my disbelief enough to imagine space programs recruiting manlets in favor of actual grown men. After all, the people doing the recruiting are still people, and it'd be a huge hurdle to overcome the inherent disdain even if doing so would indeed be practical. Perhaps as menial work force, but anyone with any authority would most certainly not be a hobbit.

Such discrepancy would only serve to deepen the social gulf and create a clanking mass of sorts, only in stunted flesh instead of steel.

>>49769733
Not really, no. Only a passing familiarity with the lore.

>>49769850
Eclipse Phase and D&D are nothing alike. D&D is traditionally about dungeon crawling, everything in the monster manual has a set difficulty and it's a lot harder to get caught.

EP is about espionage. You set a challenge, eyeball the difficulty and let the players figure out the best way to approach things. The entire point is to break the game you set for them in whatever creative way they think of. If you need to give them hints than do so as their muses. A muse looks after the character's well being and are usually able to give advice and remind the PC of something they may be forgetting.

>>49769984
>>remind the PC of something they may be forgetting.
>"Remember, anon: Around scum, watch your bum!"

>>49769901

It's also actually can be played just as choosing a different path forward.

Humanity starts developing nanomachines and AIs. Creates a fuckup of epic proportions that arguably is the result of getting too good at both. And what most of people do next ? Try to repeat the same mistake.

Jovians instead have chosen another path where they try to use only limited AI and nanomachines technology and concentrate on high-energy systems, and say FTL drives or material sciences or whatever you want to add.

>>49769984

Yes, but I still need to at least allow them to play. Muses can't take charge unless character lost consciousness. I understand that EP is not D&D ant players understood that too just didn't feel how much it is different until they started to play.

It's not easy to hunt down a paranoid Jovian especially if you don't feel the setting.

>>49769901
>And now realize who are the only rational guys in the whole eclipse phase universe.
Right, like the Unabomber was the only rational person of the Information Age?

I mean, nanotech is just all around fucking amazing. The rest of the solar system doesn't use it because they're fucked in the head, but because its effect on society and the quality of life cannot be understated. It's arguably a bigger thing than the Industrial Revolution was.

Backing away from something like that is very hard, even if has been proven to be extremely dangerous under the wrong circumstances.

>>49769964
What inherent disdain?

And don't you think that the people making the decisions regarding recruitment are going to be looking at things a little more methodically than whatever job has a screening process where "lol he's a manlet" is a thing?

>>49768789
>Mormons are fucking chill in terms of not being in your face
Mormons are up in your face, but trying to convert you rather than damning you.
Jesuits are chill, as are Benedictines.

So what would you need to start with with if your goal was to either bootstrap to seed AI levels, or create some sort of self fork fueled grey goo scenario? I'm thinking dumping all your starting CP into flexbot blueprints, constructor/gather nanite swarm blue prints, infrastructure blueprints. So Solar panels, servers, ect.

Sure, you will be called an X-risk like everything else but being the 1 man band of transhumanism would be pretty cool.

>>49770812
I bet your CoC characters all go straight to the Miskatonic University library and try to take out the Necronomicon.

>>49770296
>Unabomber was the only rational person of the Information Age?

Well if you read his manifesto a lot of things he says make sense. And he wasn't just a "supreme gentleman" that craved for attention, this man had a life in the office working for high wages because his IQ was over 160.

The only part that can be critized about him was the way he got attention.

Also, you are putting it like jovians don't use nanotechnology, they restrict it, its quite different. The use nanotechnology for industrial zones but only where its efficiencies cannot be ignored and even those system have to be watched constantly and be able to be shut down in seconds and physically disconected.

So they get the advantages of nanotechnology, its just that they only use their safest forms. For example: Medichines are in debate in the technological moral comittee, which real name doesn't come to my mind right now, for they are almost like medical magic for people that force themselves into one body(although I remember that was stated that soldiers that went to dangerous missions could choose to have a back up), the problem is obvious, not only in the paranoical sense that medichines can be hacked and fucked several times by TITANS but also opening the door for "active nanotechnologies" that use bots which are clearly more dangerous or that medichines would impact society as a whole...

these questions of how a certain technology might change society and how much are the difference between jovians and the rest of the autonomist alliance where they sacrifice privacy and some level of own autonomy for the security that people don't make a nuclear bomb behind their backyard(and that is not even a really systematic solution, is just a "someone/this AI would see and signal everybody about it".

So, you see... the fact that jovians don't have a cornucopia machine in every hause doesn't mean that they don't have one or that they don't see the advantages, its just another aproach.

>>49770812

Where will you get all the mass needed for it? Solar panels mean you can't go a lot further than Mars orbit so somewhere in the Belt? Belters are kind of sctrict with people who try to steal their mass - gonna get your ass fried with lasers as a warning shot.

>>49771100

dubs say its a critical success, so he is right.

>>49771197
>not only in the paranoical sense that medichines can be hacked and fucked several times by TITANS
Fun fact: Over four characters in EP, I have not once run into any exsurgent or TITAN strain IC that was stopped or even slowed by medichines. They actually tended to subvert them to accelerate the attack.

>>49768982

Ego Hunters do appear in the Basic guide.

>>49771100
Hey man I don't intend to actually ruin anyones game with this theory crafting. For me in EP half the fun is seeing how far you can push the transhumanism envelope. Much like the actual people in universe.

Plus I always like seeing how much you can break a setting 'out of the box' as it were. No GM fiat, no homebrew shit. Just when the devs give you to play with.

>>49771298
Nanophages. Medichines are there for run-of-the-mill poisons and diseases.

>>49772737
The game relies on GM Fiat. There aren't rules for absolutely everything.

>>49769901
I want to agree, but that isn't how the Jovian Republic is portrayed, unfortunately. The writing is hamfisted and loaded as fuck.

>>49770699
Never had that experience with regular mormons. Missionaries come to the door sometimes but they're not really in my face about it. And most mormons are not missionaries as adults.

>>49773110

You have to get into the details of rimward to really see it.

Lets be honest here, the authors are a mix collectivist-anarchists and some seem to be anarcho-capitalist that from time to time get some meat on the flufff so they shut up. But either way, they have done a very interesting, flexible and rich setting so from my part they are cool anarchists, like the one that did the comics about the spanish civil war or proclaiming self protection with free gun trading.

So, some levels of subjectivity are to be expected, nothing to do in that regard and by making things from the point of view of anarchists, mixed with argonauts, they can at least deal with that more easily, but still, you can see here or there how the setting should be played in their mind(as an anarchistic firewall agent fighting the TITAN horrors or transhuman freedom in the anarchistic sense), but even in that regard they have some ideological variety/neutrality in their team and so you can see things like.

>Jovians let their soldiers have back ups if they are going in a dangerous mission.
>The jovian republic have the best healthcare in the entire solar system.
>The jovians are the only ones that might actuall stand a chance in case of TITAN invasion(firewall)
>They don't reject technology, just regulate it so you can use it with special licenses.
>Under the jovian vision, the rest of the solar system is populated by people that were copied into computers and then claimed they were full persons, a reasonable and truly scary philosophical concern mixed with AI paranoia.
>The jovians, even though they set up puppet goverments and their citizens have several restrictions they still have a secured hause and a goverment funded jobs starship troopers style(civilian/military branches) for 2 years that can be extended voluntarily.
>They have a parlament with people pushing for different ideological fronts, from aperturism to warhawks so its not exactly a total dictatorship of one voice.

>>49768761

Reply received and replied to; we'll call on conversation there.

>>49773218
>Missionaries come to the door sometimes but they're not really in my face about it.
I remember my last run in with Mormon missionaries
>They knock, it's before my morning coffee so my sleepy brain tells my mouth to ask if they're selling cable
>They say no, we're from LDS, do you have time to hear the word?
>Me: "I'm Catholic and quite happy with it and I also have work in an hour, so no."
>Them: "Oh, okay, have a nice day!"
10/10 would politely snub again.

Great.

Another 5 hour Jovian circlejerk with an autist making a bunch of shit up about the setting that isn't covered in the books.

>>49773895

Well then, lets talk about how great life in Locus is.

>>49773287
This is fucking idiotic

>Jovians let their soldiers have back ups if they are going in a dangerous mission.
No they don't. Most jovians are flats, period. Only the elite get stuff like backups and nanotech, and most soldiers wouldn't even WANT to be reinstantiated.
>The jovian republic have the best healthcare in the entire solar system.
The book explicitly cites examples of jovians dying to cancer from Jupiters radiation because they refuse to allow their citizens nanotech. Also its mentioned that several of their habitats suffer from sepsis and environmental problems.
>The jovians are the only ones that might actuall stand a chance in case of TITAN invasion(firewall)
Jovians use a centralized mesh network that makes them more vulnrable to TITAN attacks.
>They don't reject technology, just regulate it so you can use it with special licenses.
This is true, but only the elite have access to it
>Under the jovian vision, the rest of the solar system is populated by people that were copied into computers and then claimed they were full persons, a reasonable and truly scary philosophical concern mixed with AI paranoia.
Its really not that big a philosophical hurdle.
>The jovians, even though they set up puppet goverments and their citizens have several restrictions they still have a secured hause and a goverment funded jobs starship troopers style(civilian/military branches) for 2 years that can be extended voluntarily.
Why is this a good thing?
>They have a parlament with people pushing for different ideological fronts, from aperturism to warhawks so its not exactly a total dictatorship of one voice.
The Parliament is specifically mentioned as a puppet of the state. It has no real power.

>>49769546
No, you're being BTFO by the guy who just cucked you. Accept it and head back to >>>/reddit, there's no way you can ever show your face here again

>>49774011
>and most soldiers wouldn't even WANT to be reinstantiated.

Correct, is also stated in the manual that most jovians reject that service, but is still there.

>ok explicitly cites examples of jovians dying to cancer from Jupiters radiation because they refuse to allow their citizens nanotech. Also its mentioned that several of their habitats suffer from sepsis and environmental problems.

And is also stated that the jovian health system is the best around the solar since since they are stuck in one body they have to really take care of it.

The fact that you have the most advanced healthcare system doesn't meant that you are invulnerable.

>Jovians use a centralized mesh network that makes them more vulnrable to TITAN attacks.

Incorrect, that mesh network is centralized but is also air gapped, that means that any TITAN invasion throught the mesh is fundamentally slowed because at some point there is simply no network, this also appear in the manual, but you can also expect TITAN alarm system and having the mesh prepared to blow up all of those systems because is stated that jovians aren't so dependent on the mesh for their operations.
>This is true, but only the elite have access to it
Again, incorrect, engineers and people working in dangerous places have access to higher level of technology, and so with people that can justify the use of tech they are claiming the use of.

But elites gets a freehand in this, yes.
>Its really not that big a philosophical hurdle.
The problem of conscience? The thing that to this day is not solved and has been discused since the start of time? Its as fundamental as questions about what is real and what is not.
>Why is this a good thing?
It has its disadvantages in terms of freedom, but it can't be denied that offering security to a population that just came from an apocalypsis is a good thing. Also keeps your population active and involved in the goverment, and prepared.

>>49774011
>>49774165

*cont

Consider it just another form of doing bussiness from the public sector.

>The Parliament is specifically mentioned as a puppet of the state. It has no real power.

Its supedited to the main military council(I don't quite remember the name of the central military power), but its also stated that there are factions in that parlament and they are pushed by lobbying groups to defend their interest, if the parlament didn't hold any power lobbyist wouldn't even care about that so yes it has power, its just that it has power like in a crony capitalist sense or in shadowy politics.

>friend wants to get into EP but hates the evil AI trope and is a singularity seeker in real life

help

>>49774165
>people dying to easily treatable diseases = best healthcare

American detected

>>49774252
Tell me...

how do you cure brain cancer? Well, kind of rhetorical question, but just to show that there are "conventional" illness that maybe will never be cured because the cure would fundamentally destroy the person itself.

What is surprising is that flats around the jovian republic are not dying constantly of metabolic diseases from the constant nuclear bombardment, having some people dying from cancer here and there, with limited tools for moral/paranoid reasons is quite astounding.

>>49770296
>The rest of the solar system doesn't use it because they're fucked in the head

Or because they remember vividly during the Fall how nanoswarms devoured entire cities or converted people into twitching, pulsating, still-living piles of flesh. I don't think you need to be a biocon to not be a huge fan of nanotech outside of limited uses of it.

>>49774247
He'd love EP, the setting is book after book about how AGIs totally aren't dangerous guys, just because one of them exterminated 90 percent of humanity doesn't mean we should bully the rest of them

>What is surprising is that flats around the jovian republic are not dying constantly of metabolic diseases from the constant nuclear bombardment

Not really. Building habitats inside of asteroids would be enough to shield the inhabitants, provided you didn't hollow out too much of the inside and left the walls thick enough. The books cite their refusal to use nanotech as another reason, but you can actually recycle air, water and food pretty easily with current methods and technology. If Jovian habitats were septic the actual reason would be that many of them were holding thousands and thousands more people than their life support systems were designed to support.

>>49774011
>The book explicitly cites examples of jovians dying to cancer from Jupiters radiation because they refuse to allow their citizens nanotech. Also its mentioned that several of their habitats suffer from sepsis and environmental problems.

That's because the game devs are dumb and don't understand that Reagan cylinders, as they're described in EP, are more than sufficient to block Jupiter's radiation belts. And their habitats suffer from sepsis and environmental problems for no reason, since the Jovians have absolutely no reason to distrust the usage of plants in their life support systems---you know, like what humans have been doing to survive in space since forever? Nanotech is NOT commonly used in life support.

>>49774657

>If Jovian habitats were septic the actual reason would be that many of them were holding thousands and thousands more people than their life support systems were designed to support.

Which is actually the stated reason - Reagan Cylinders are supposed to be spartan, military research and support facilities, not major metropolitan equivalent habitation. Lack of Nanotech prevents them from clearing up this problem rapidly a way other than reducing overcrowding.

>>49773895
This could've been avoided by not writing them like retards jn the first place.

>>49774220
>Its supedited to the main military council(I don't quite remember the name of the central military power), but its also stated that there are factions in that parlament and they are pushed by lobbying groups to defend their interest, if the parlament didn't hold any power lobbyist wouldn't even care about that so yes it has power, its just that it has power like in a crony capitalist sense or in shadowy politics.

Your expecting that they thought their shitty social commentary through before spilling all their political illiteracy aĺl over the pages like the proverbial spaghetti?

>>49774657
>He'd love EP, the setting is book after book about how AGIs totally aren't dangerous guys, just because one of them exterminated 90 percent of humanity doesn't mean we should bully the rest of them

Getting real tired of this shit. It's perfectly fucking reasonable to be afraid of AI:s and synths, whether the immediate threat is real or not. But the books basically refer to people that try to be safe rather than sorry as bigots and reactionaries that can't embrace the obviously superior and much nicer, for some reason, future.

>>49774657
>defaulting to 'he' for someone you don't know in the TRANShuman future

>>49775080
>It's perfectly fucking reasonable to be afraid of AI:s and synths
AIs have limited intelligence and no ability to learn from experience and synths aren't the only vector for exsurgent.

>But the books basically refer to people that try to be safe rather than sorry as bigots and reactionaries
Most AGIs are purposely based off of human architecture and tought to be social in simuspace environments so they can relate to people and don't go rouge. The only real X-Risk with AGIs are the ones that emerge by accident without any human architecture as a base or the ones that actively seek singularities. That being said, anyone can become a seed intelligence if they tried, not just AIs.

So yes they are bigots, they have a good reason to be afraid, but they're overly paranoid like post 9/11 security faggots.

>>49775313
You know what wouldn't have happened if there were no jews? 9/11.

You know what wouldn't have happened if there were no AI? The Fall.

The fear is entirely warranted, and there's no need for such one-sided, ham-fisted writing.

>>49775313
>AIs have ... no ability to learn from experience

Yeah they do. Are you retarded? AI without capacity to learn from experience wouldn't be useful, but more importantly, wouldn't be AI.

>>49775479
The issue is that ASI and AGI have fundamentally different architectures. Seed Ai are base on a server structure, while most AGI are based on human/uplift neural architecture. Saying AGI are the same as TITANS is like saying Siri or Cortana (the IRL voice-recognizer, not the AI) is the same as IBM Watson.
I do digress that being wary of AGI who are either emergent or uplifted from a standard program should be treated with caution though.
A bootstrapped AGI already shows the radical self-improvement characteristics that indicate ASI.

>>49775731
Meant to reply to >>49775442

>>49775731
What if it was an prostitution AI that emerged to AGI?

>>49775442
He's saying that the fear is understandable but irrational. Most AGIs are actually more relatable than uplifts.
>>49775479
Artificial Intelligences don't have to be on human levels. The whole point of weak AIs is that they are supposed to take away tedious work. Why would a car's computer need to learn anything outside of road maps and how to drive? If a system gets too complicated than someone installs a patch.

The difference between weak AIs and AGIs is that AGIs have intuition that allows them to learn in general terms rather than a specific field. They're basically forks woth a few tweeks.

>>49775442
>You know what wouldn't have happened if there were no jews? 9/11.

oh boy here we go

>>49775784
If it bootstrapped itself up from a dumb AI, then yes, as it has already demonstrated ability for radical self-improvement, which, as I said earlier, is the defining characteristic of an ASI.

To use anons earlier post-9/11 metaphor, "normal" AGI is an average Arab American, while bootstrapped AI are an Arab American who follows Daesh/IS/ISIS on twitter.

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Are there any morphs that would be suited for a neo-avian who wishes to be sleeved in an eagle-like Morph?

>>49776245
If it's looks you want than a neo-avian with adjusted plumage genes and some body sculpting would fit the bill.

>>49775903
Not just bootstrapped AIs, singularity seekers and exhumans are pretty similar in regards too.

>>49776312
Eagles have beaks anon.

>>49776245
Neo-avian with bodysculpting, cyberclaws, and enhanced vision. There's not enough difference between most birds to warrant multiple plain bird morphs with different stats.

>>49776353
Neo-Avian Advantages: Beak/Claw Attack (1d10 DV, AP –1, use Unarmed Combat skill), +5 INT, +10 REF, +5 to one other aptitude of the player’s choice

Are there any eclipse phase games recruiting that are text-only? I can't use voicechat (no microphone that works), but would like to play.

>>49776613
Hearing-impaired, wondering the same.

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>>49775479
No, you're retarded because you don't know the difference between AI and AGI.

I know it's a meme that no one here has played Eclipse Phase, but it might be a good idea to actually read the rulebook before making a fool of yourself anon.

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When is this fucking troll going to leave?

He keeps shitting up EP threads. Its getting really fucking annoying.

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>>49778497
>posts an image
>image has text that is too small to read

>>49774252

He probably should have said "best traditional healthcare". Most other factions don't bother with it at all. They just gonna reassemble diseased body part through nanomachines or resleeve patient into another morph. The original morph going into trash.

>>49774011

>Jovians use a centralized mesh network that makes them more vulnerable to TITAN attacks.

What they gonna do? Read forums? Control of life-support is partitioned from normal mesh communication and there is also probably mechanical failsafes at actual physical locations of each system which prevent messing with it through computer commands (If we are going with paranoia angle).

Yeah, they can pull off some scary shit but it is still better than getting all your population in a puppet state within at best half an hour.

>>49771197
Nanomachines are only really dangerous if they're specifically built to self-replicate, which isn't really necessary for most applications. Remove that function and they're no more dangerous than asbestos.

>>49779657
>implying exsurgents can't reprogram some fuckjng nanites with other nanites to make other nanites that will self-replicate

No, anon, you are the x-risk.

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>>49776312
>neo-avian
>fit
>the
>bill

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Why would the Jovian Republic hate Firewall? It seems extremely out of place considering the aims of Firewall and the ideologies of the Junta. It seems to be written like that just because Firewall are 'good guys' and the Jovian Republic are pegged as evul plutocrap fascist bush-pinochet retard fundies fucked by lobbyism but also a system where lobbyism wouldn't even work. But of course the relationship between social-democrat Titania and the autonomists and Firewall is amicable and at worst 'misunderstood' or a difference of opinion.

Even with the writing for the Jovian Republic being what it is, that part of the section on Firewall, about Firewall's relationship with other organizations stood out to me as odd and I was taken aback a bit, having assumed that the Jovian Republic would be a bit of a safe(er) harbour for Firewall, and anarchists and the corps being at the very opposite side, signifying the greatest, repeating X-risks.

>>49777701
>AI
>incapable of learning

So, the AI:s are not AI? OK.
Probably shouldn't have called them AI then.

Muses and shit should be referred to as ALI (Limited) or something, to differentiate from other AI:s. Refferring to AI in both a general sense (the meaning of AI itself, ASI and AGI being forms of AI, etc.) and a specific sense (this very limited, non-learning pseudo-AI, such as muses) is just fucking confusing.

AI is a general term with specific meaning; more specific AI:s should be referred to by their specific name (ASI, AGI, ALI, etc.) underneath the general AI umbrella.

>>49780516
What irks me about the Jovian Republic is that they are described as "one of the few old economies left in the system", literally the opposite of fascism. First thing to get shot down in any form of fascism is fractional reserve banking, private central banks and resource-backed currency.

>>49773287
>The jovians are the only ones that might actuall stand a chance in case of TITAN invasion(firewall)

I still don't quite understand why people would consider the Jovians as standing a chance against TITAN invasion; it's not like all those people sleeved in flats were somehow magically immune to the depredations of Headhunters and Hunter-Killers during the Fall. Designing systems that aren't going to be compromised by electronic intrusion makes sense if you're worried about all the mean people around you who hate your guts but generally play by the same rules you do. It doesn't strike me as being a particularly viable defensive system against things that can seemingly fuck with the laws of physics in ways that transhumanity cannot understand, and given the choice between potentially fighting using the best technology available that will get compromised versus fighting using shit-tier technology that will also get compromised, why go for anything less than the best that's available?

I'm fairly certain that self-replicating nanoswarms wouldn't give a fuck about how impossible to compromise the stick you're ineffectually trying to beat them with is.

>>49780916
Because people are desperate for any excuse to beat the TITANs and go "Humanity, Fuck Yeah!". It's the sort of irrational feeling that compels some people to try to create an army of 5500 power magical girl liches just to beat the TITANs.

>>49779657
The TITANs found ways to subvert human-made nanomachines that were designed for gardening and use them as dangerous weapons. I'm pretty sure they don't have to be self-replicating to be a threat.

>>49780916

Because they are the only ones that are actually prepared and actively engaging in designing antiTITAN protocols.

And as has been already stated over a 1000 times here, jovians have the same technological level or more(if you consider that they come from top of the line research stations hiding in Jupiter), but they choose to make it less avaliable for the rest of the population.

Also, any TITAN infection can be stopped if its detected early,as firewall usually shows, and post infectionTITANs can be destroyed with enough force.

After a TITAN stablishes you can call the jovians, they are the only ones that have acurate models of TITAN warmachines, their capabilities and strategies.

>>49781094
>It's the sort of irrational feeling that compels some people to try to create an army of 5500 power magical girl liches just to beat the TITANs.

What else should we be doing with all these indentures and infugees?

>>49780916

Don't Jovians still have the best fleet in the system and all their doctrine is centred around controlling space around Jupiter? What does spending resources on nanomachine research give you if you try to move battles into space where they can't do anything to your ships?

Nanoswarms are worthless if their intended traget is half a light second away and firing on their carrier with antiproton accelerators or some other high energy weapons.

Basically Jovians go for asymmetric warfare. They just assumed that the moment they try to fight on the same playing field as others they lose. So they invested in things that are much harder to counter by being smart, having implants through the nose or computing power. You can't beat a battleship with a quantum computer. At least not fast. You'll need to get mass that you'll need to transform into something that will be able to stand up to said battleship.

Not like they have a chance against full blown TITAN return. The one who has working FTL always wins.

>>49781607
>The one who has working FTL always wins.

Until Physics notices and unworks the FTL.

>>49781664

Well than Gates and QE comms seem to have great antiphysics stealth in EP.

>>49781471
>Also, any TITAN infection can be stopped

I agree with your post, but just one small thing; you're thinking of the exsurgent virus, not the TITANs themselves.

If the TITANs themselves return, they'll likely show up in ships and murderbots and just straight-up rape everyone with ion cannons, relativity rifles, antimatter torpedoes, gauss guns and death stars.

But either way, the Jovians are organized and powerful, and would probably stand the best chance to either fight back or just flee.

What's interesting is that The Factors have very similar rules against AGI:s and so forth as the Jovian Republic, and are similarly paranoid, and seemingly paranoid about sharing shit with the overall (at least seemingly) anarchic transhumanity.

They also claim that transhumanity knows very little about "the AI threat" and that it is "not well known" to us. Now, this isn't common knowledge in any way, in-universe, but there has to be a reason for The Factor's massive paranoia regarding open meshes and the use of AI:s. They flat-out refuse to deal with Infomorphs at all.

I wonder what The Factors have to say about asyncs.

Again, it's so sad that the Jovian Republic was written like it was by political illiterates, because the overall concepts are great and interact great with the rest of the relatively well-written setting. But for someone trying to take a more reasonable approach to the Jovian Republic, they can absolutely stand out as the last, best hope for humanity, and with very little effort, the derpiest shit can easily be ignored, making their motivations and fears entirely warranted.

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>>49781664
>Until Physics notices and unworks the FTL.

If you want to have a more plausible/possible FTL system for harder sci-fi, warp travel and wormholes are all theoretically possible.

FTL only gets fucked by physics if you assume that FTL has you going at a higher relativistic velocity than light - which has practically never been a possibility or pitched as one in sci-fi.

Also, Psi expressly fucks all your assumptions about physics with a fucking rake.

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So who's got the sickest memes?

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>>49782678
Uplifts.

>>49782678

Basilisk strain. People literally can't stop talking about memes implanted by it until they die.

>>49780516
Because Firewall is full of anarkids, and any FW agents operating in Jovian space will be assumed to be Autonomist subversives by Jovian security, since they don't know any better due to FW's signature secrecy.

Also, the Jovians (just like everyone else) have their own people for handling the sort of shit Firewall deals with.

>>49781607
not sure how a antiproton accelerator poses a threat to anything at lightsecond distances (unless you've got some serious power generation). Remember the inverse square law.

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>>49783251
>Because Firewall is full of anarkids, and any FW agents operating in Jovian space will be assumed to be Autonomist subversives by Jovian security, since they don't know any better due to FW's signature secrecy.

Yeah, I'm just saying that that doesn't feel like it makes any bloody sense. And sure, Firewall is secret, but Jovians have their own secret service, I'm sure, just like the Planetary Consortium has Project Ozma.

They shouldn't be completely in the dark as to what Firewall is or what they're up to, and should even have some way to communicate with eachother, just like Firewall and Project Ozma seem to have.

>>49781607
I know this is basically a meme now, but due to how military spacecraft would have to be designed in real life, the Jovian navy would be ridiculously gimped against any other factions willing to employ infomorphs, synths and AI in their spaceship crews.

Accommodating a flesh-and-blood crew requires dedicated crew compartments, life support systems and extra cargo in the form of rations and oxygen. This all translate to extra mass and volume, which in turn mean worse maneuverability, higher energy requirements and a larger target area compared to a craft that doesn't have those things.

>>49781362
That's a damned nice pic. Where's it from?

>>49783494
Yeah plus if the TITANs did come back they would not be hindered by distance and would probably just subvert the infos before their carriers even got within missile range

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>>49783494
This isn't untrue, but what other large militarized and organized fleet that fully eschews meatsuits is available?

I'm imagining that the Jovian Republic would employ a ton of remote-controlled crafts, controlled and/or crewed by soldiers, possibly in stasis or near-stasis. And they'd probably make heavy use of automated systems that are almost-AI-but-not-quite, such as some form of militarized muses restricted to specific functions and confined to specific vessels. Then, at least, the exsurgent virus would have to infect them one by one, which might be much harder, especially if all cerebral communication is one-way.

>>49784180
>remote-controlled crafts
That wouldn't work unless you're specifically thinking of fighter/drone craft piloted remotely from some kind of carrier vessel. Even then, with the distances over which a real space battle would be fought over, you'd still get some problems with signal latency.

A scenario where an operator would be remotely controlling a spacecraft from elsewhere in the solar system is just plain impossible.

Placing the on-board crew in near-stasis and interfacing them directly with the ship's systems (sort of like capsuleers in EVE, I guess) would work, though. It would also minimize the need for life support systems, as well as the number of crewmen (probably down to a few dudes).

>>49779657
Non-self replicating nanoswarms are still dangerous, but the scale is more like a really unpredictable (smart) chemical spill rather than a gray goo scenario. Not absolutely destructive, but still a real public health risk.

>>49780516
The Jovians don't like Firewall because they're an illegal underground conspiracy which looks like a huge terror network. They might be able to find common ground with conservative parts of Firewall, but stuff like the Toybox and that exoplanet base Firewall uses to study TITAN tech are well past the danger zone. Firewall isn't a hydra, they're a swarm of poisonous snakes, and that lack of centralized control either is, or appears to be dangerous.

>>49781471
> they are the only ones that have acurate models of TITAN warmachines, their capabilities and strategies.

Those are 10 years out of date. Considering how Seed ASIs work that's like using tactics suitable for defeating a pike and shot infantry block against the US air force. It's not just wrong, its actively harmful to your efforts.

>>49781607
Remember, it only took a single speck of TITAN smart matter to create the Iapetan horror show, and hiding a speck of dust in space is possible. A single cloud of that stuff would destroy the whole republic, and would have destroyed Titan if the TITAN's wanted to. That's the best way to survive against the TITANs, they aren't often out to efficiently kill everyone.

>>49784180
Titanian Fleet Intelligence is supposed to be Exhuman-tier when it comes to augmentation, so I'd expect Titanian warships to sleeve operators in hab-brain style.

>>49784642
>Those are 10 years out of date. Considering how Seed ASIs work that's like using tactics suitable for defeating a pike and shot infantry block against the US air force. It's not just wrong, its actively harmful to your efforts.

You're under the asumption that all TITAN invasions will come from the original TITAN and not some version they left behind.

You are also asuming that all TITAN invasions will be about extermination of humanity with full scale combat and systematic destruction.

Having actual models of what your enemy had, and be prepared for it, is a huge advantage over the rest of the solar system that either lacks it or goes "YOLO" all day, for not only you know in which sense they are superior and what to expect about them, but also stimate how the enemy tactics will be at the start of any attack and be ready.

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>>49780572
Hahaha, oh wow, I'm responding to myself here, because goddamn, I just came across pic related, long after writing that post. It's from the Firewall book.

Apparently even the devs realized that the division was confusing and adopted the exact fucking terminology I was thinking of, before I even knew of the game. Goddamn.

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>>49784642
>Remember, it only took a single speck of TITAN smart matter to create the Iapetan horror show, and hiding a speck of dust in space is possible. A single cloud of that stuff would destroy the whole republic, and would have destroyed Titan if the TITAN's wanted to. That's the best way to survive against the TITANs, they aren't often out to efficiently kill everyone.

This is true, and I'm now imagining the Jovian Republic, now the Terran Empire, stretching a hundred star-systems in total, after leaving their proverbial dark ages and crushing the autonomists, the anarchists, and the corporations, only to have 90% of humanity destroyed once again, only because someone smacked a nano-bug against the windshield in the vicinity of Sol and brought it with them to a fringe mining colony.

>>49783494

> know this is basically a meme now, but due to how military spacecraft would have to be designed in real life, the Jovian navy would be ridiculously gimped against any other factions willing to employ infomorphs, synths and AI in their spaceship crews.

Actually not that much. Their ships will need to dedicated at best 5% of their mass for life support and even that can be cut down by the use of space suit regenerators. Really unpleasant to use for a long time but in case of emergency will work and can be alleviated by drugs.

EP doesn't have magical sci-fi drives so there is not much gain to be had from dropping people from the crew - ship structures actually put more limits on acceleration. High G drives would be mostly used on drones.

>Accommodating a flesh-and-blood crew requires dedicated crew compartments, life support systems and extra cargo in the form of rations and oxygen. This all translate to extra mass and volume, which in turn mean worse maneuverability, higher energy requirements and a larger target area compared to a craft that doesn't have those things.

I don't think you understand how laughable are requirements for energy that life support needs comparable to even one not even that powerful weapon. One reasonable laser will need more energy to operate in a short combat than whole crew will need in a month. And even small ships are supposed to carry whole arrays of PD lasers, railguns and other stuff. Basically crews, infomorph or meat, are microbes in spaceship organism.

>>49784180

Everyone will use automated systems. And not even Muses but low level dedicated systems. Because they have less parasitic calculations. You don't need a neural architecture in a drone or missile - it's just a waste of mass and computing power. I doubt there will be anything to infect with a virus (not enough space) but just in case such weapons won't have any open vectors for such attack.

>>49784642
>Remember, it only took a single speck of TITAN smart matter to create the Iapetan horror show, and hiding a speck of dust in space is possible.
Well we are talking pure TITAN magic here. Arguably Jupiter with its radiation belts is a little better protected from such attacks than many other places but considering existence of psi and how authors have written the books TITANs just shit on any restrictions or protections.

>>49784926
>I don't think you understand how laughable are requirements for energy that life support needs
I'm talking about increased energy requirements for accelerating, decelerating and maneuvering a craft that are the result of higher mass.

>>49785296

I mean, military ships already have enormous tonnage of magnetic containment requirements for the antimatter - which itself is crazy good efficient. As usual, the added mass for squishy meat-men is pretty chump change.

>>49785296
>I'm talking about increased energy requirements for accelerating, decelerating and maneuvering a craft that are the result of higher mass.

As I've written 5% is a maximum estimate. Probably much less. Depending on requirements for ships and crews. Considering that fusion drives can give from 400 to 1500 km/s dV it's not a problem.

>I mean, military ships already have enormous tonnage of magnetic containment requirements for the antimatter - which itself is crazy good efficient. As usual, the added mass for squishy meat-men is pretty chump change.

Frankly antimatter drives for main combat ships is one of the most dumb things in EP. For couriers or semi-relativistic kill projectiles it's understandable. But sticking this shit on a battleship is completely dumb. What's the fucking point?

+It gets more dV
+It gets a little better acceleration

-Vulnerability to any hits
-Inability to work in close formations for cross-PD coverage
-Higher signature
-COST!!! You need to dedicated tons of space and mass for magnetic traps or particle accelerators to get antimatter. It takes a lot of time. And you need also to move it with specially designed freighters.

>>49785699

Well, I would assume it's so you can actually get anywhere fast. You don't need a naval ship to just defend your habs, or whatever. You have static defenses and defense platforms and AKVs and whatever for that. The purpose of destroyers is to either have a way to physically attack other points which bother you, and to intercept ships/exert control over your wider "territory" in space. So they need to be able to move fast and efficient so they can arrive in time to actually accomplish anything. Plus, you can siphon fuel to turn it directly into WMDs.

And in EP as of right now, the Space Combat rules are basically "don't", because if you get hit with reasonably anything at spaceship scale you're fucked anyway. Should that Space Combat supplement finish development, I would expect this sort of thing to get more nuanced, and maybe we'll see some types of combat-grade vessels which are not antimatter hot-rockets.

>>49784926
>ship structures actually put more limits on acceleration
Structural limitations are still a lot higher than what the human body can handle. Meaning a ship without any meat inside can go faster than a traditionally crewed ship, which gives it a definite edge.

And, I don't know, I feel that you're underestimating the space requirements for all the things needed to support human life. You can't just shove a bunch of guys inside a sardine can and not lose efficiency due to psyhcological issues. Sure, an air-filled compartment doesn't weigh all that much, but you still need to protect that section somehow since it's a military craft.

And anyway, warships are probably crazy optimized since space engagements are a lot more unforgiving than planetbound warfare, so even if the advantage gained from forgoing an organic crew are small, it could still be a decisive factor in an actual engagement.

>>49785795
>can go faster
That is, accelerate faster.

So what's the point of playing as an engineer or doctor if everything's just done by AIs or infomorphs?

Like, if no one goes to see the doctor anymore because biomods+medichines+nanophages cures literally everything in the entire universe, why have medical professionals anymore? Just sprinkle nanomachines onto everything and then you're done.

>>49786069
Someones got to program those nanomachines son. And the AI. Someones got to discover then cure new diseases.

But yeah they are NPC jobs. Not PC things to do.

>>49786069
You still need someone to program the nanomachines.

>>49785795
>Structural limitations are still a lot higher than what the human body can handle. Meaning a ship without any meat inside can go faster than a traditionally crewed ship, which gives it a definite edge.
At capital ship sizes it's questionable. And drives still don't become magical. You'll need to use metallic hydrogen to pull some serious acceleration. Which in turn will get you shitty dV.

>Sure, an air-filled compartment doesn't weigh all that much, but you still need to protect that section somehow since it's a military craft.
Why do I need to protect it? What stops me from removing atmosphere before combat? It's just a piece of metal/carbon that can be used as additional armor.

>And anyway, warships are probably crazy optimized since space engagements are a lot more unforgiving than planetbound warfare, so even if the advantage gained from forgoing an organic crew are small, it could still be a decisive factor in an actual engagement.
It's all good. If you have mass to build your fleet. Many people in the setting have trouble with keeping their habitats supplied. Jovians and Mars don't have this problem and they have fleets and can build them in the size they want.

It could be a decisive factor but only if opponent doesn't have a hard counter to your ships. Than 5% that you had transform into nothing. And while it can give disadvantage to capital ships drones and missiles do not care about it and they rely on acceleration and manoeuvring much more than capital ships (can't dodge due to size).

>>49786069

What >>49786109
>>49786113 said.

You'll still want real medical professionals to do diagnosis and triage, to authorize and approve AI work and quite frankly if shit gets really tough or weird, medichine is an Active skill. And remember, healing vats and medichines take hours to work, you rupture an organ or damage some arteries or whatever somebody has to stabilize the guy first.

I'll disagree that a Doctor can't be a PC - but you're not like a friendly town doctor type. Either you're also something else (like a soldier) with medic training, or you're some kind of TV wizard doctor with multiple medical degrees and other technical and support skills on top of it.

>>49786069

On top of what >>49786109 and >>49786113 said; not every situation is such that nanomachines are the answer. If you're going into an exsurgent potential infection site, you're gonna want someone who knows how to stitch you up with string and duct tape; if you're trying to lay low on Jove and your EVA sled breaks down, you can't just nanoswarm it back together. It never, EVER hurts to have practical skills; just ask any survivalist today. Sure, I COULD use a lighter to light a grill... but in case I don't have a lighter, I know how to use a magnifying glass, or even just some sticks; or if I don't have a grill, I know how to gather wood and tinder and how to dig my own firepit. Will I need such a skill? Maybe not; but I'm not in the sort of high-risk job that the average EP PC (IE< firewall agent)_ is, where, exsurgent infection is a real possibilty, infiltration of hostile polities is an everyday occurance, and having to deal with a million different rules in a million different habitats where some may allow medical nanobots andsome may not and some allow AIs and some don't and etc. Having practical skills is never a bad thing,

>>49786069
I'd guess medical practitioners mostly deal with stuff that falls outside standard everyday medicine, with the work being closer to those of diagnosticians or pathologists. Some of it probably involves troubleshooting for faults in morph design or biomodifications. Basically House: Transhuman Edition.

It could be a fairly excellent initial setting for running into the Exurgent virus.

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How do you avoid gender dysphoria when sleeving into morphs of a different gender than your own? Wouldn't you have to deal with the relatively big differences in hormones, signal substance levels, brain function(s), etc?

At least when sleeving into synths you'll just be a cold shell for your consciousness, which could result in it's own issues, I guess, but at least that's just an absence of the old feelings and shit, but either way, that's a separate discussion.

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>>49786109
>>49786113
>>49786269
>>49786253

OK, but what do engineers and doctors do after programming nanomachines or applying their skills in the very unlikely event (according to the setting) that they run across off-the-shelf problems? No point in researching anything or publish papers, infomorphs in dedicated accelerated simulspace servers are doing that all the time. Do they just sit around doing nothing until the extremely unlikely event of someone with a persistent medical problem comes asking for help, or in the case of the engineer, the equally rare persistent problem that the automated maintenance systems can't fix?

I've never been a doctor or engineer and never plan to, so I really can't say what their daily schedules look like in real life, let alone in the transhuman future. And also just to be clear I'm playing devil's advocate a lot here. I think I could probably answer these questions on my own given enough time, but these are just questions or observations that I expect people new to the setting to ask but I don't really have the answers to them without being extremely verbose. I'm not great at explaining settings as complex as EP I guess.

I mean, I can see the use for doctors for faulty or "glitchy" biomods or other shit that might go wrong with morphs, as >>49786375 points out, but the impression I keep getting from the book is that "this never happens unless either the hypercorps are messing with your genes because evil monopoly guy wants to own your genes, or you're under attack by some alien virus, otherwise everything's perfect with morphs 100% all the time despite the fact that morph defects are a thing in character creation".

>>49786521
Psychosurgery solves everything.

>>49786521
You really can't, unless you're one of those weirdos that can easily adapt to other morphs regardless of how exotic or different they are to your birth body (or whatever morph you've acclimated to the most).

>>49786553
Psychosurgery is also costly (assuming you want to find a competent psychosurgeon) and prone to failing in the worst way possible. I don't think the majority of people can afford to just mosey on down to the nearest psychosurgeon the minute they resleeve, given that everyone else is already clamoring for their services.

>>49786536
Who says the infomorphs are not doctors?
Bu yes, I know what you are talking about. The regular run of the mill, dude in the labcoat who tells you you got cancer.


Will let you in on a little secret anon. For as ubiquitous, easy and foolproof much of the technology in the setting is, it's not nearly as widespread as you think. Sure nanomachines and makers are in just about every hab. But does everyone have medichines? Despite the low cost and ease of getting so many of the lower end useful tech not everyone has them. Not everyone can just jump ship to another bdy when they like. In fact the setting fluff and plothooks seem to be divorced from the mechanical side of things somewhat. Kind of like how people wonder in D&D why don't all the low level wizards do X. X is easy enough to do and would help so many things. The only answer we can really give is because there needs to be a game

>>49786536
PC are like in the top 1% in comparison to the average sod in EP. The fact they even get to consider those things are options puts them above so many other poor unfortunate souls.

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>>49786607
>You really can't, unless you're one of those weirdos that can easily adapt to other morphs regardless of how exotic or different they are to your birth body (or whatever morph you've acclimated to the most).

So the devs just completely dodged the question and stuck their head in the sand? It's even mentioned that some morphs are predominantly female (such as the Fury) but it's never explained why.

Could cause some serious, serious issues.

>>49786553
>Psychosurgery solves everything.

But psychosurgery is dodgy as fuck and expensive like hell. Also, I really don't want my head fucked over and change my cognitive abilities and functions just because I'm stuck in a certain morph for a while.

It's alright for someone that isn't a woman but really want to be one, for some reason.

>>49786521
>Wouldn't you have to deal with the relatively big differences in hormones, signal substance levels, brain function(s), etc?

In real life, yes.

In game, no. The EP devs are leftists and don't believe in biological differences between male and female bodies.

>>49786521

You don't? I mean, on the scale it's a pretty weak modifier - but it's' compared to being all-digital or becoming an octopus.

-10% is still pretty rough for an average, but the game assumes the random element and not everybody will take the same to a new sleeve. Some people don't adjust well to having a pair of tits and the associate internal physiology and might spend a day puking their guts out or having panic attacks, but the next Ego will pop into a sleeve with a different set of plumbing and be like "Neat, fits like a glove!".

>>49786121
>Why do I need to protect it?
At least one section of the ship needs to be pressurized during combat and you'd probably want to protect it better than any other part of the ship since, well, it contains the people running the thing. Since Jovians gonna Jove, that section is probably an actual bridge with all the ship's control systems in there, but even if the crew are interfacing with the ship though their mesh inserts, it's a good idea to gather them into the safest section of the ship for the duration of combat.

But it's a good point. I hadn't thought of that.

>>49786715

Hey, I'm totally not looking at my book right now thinking about how wrong you are, could you do me a solid and find the alienation/integration modifiers chart and tell me what the -10 penalty between "Synthetic morph" and "Morph is heavily modified" is?

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>>49786536
>what do engineers and doctors do after programming nanomachines
Get back to designing their weirdass furry biomorphs and shitposting on future-/d/.

>>49786069
Hardware and Medicine shouldn't be [Field] skills, none of the specific examples given in the books are worthwhile enough to justify significant point investments. Either that or make them Knowledge skills.

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>>49786626
Yeah, I think that the developers fouled up a lot on the fluff and how it relates to the mechanics, and how any reasonable person would envision it in their own head.

They should've made more of a point out of not everyone body-hopping, and toned down shit like that a lot to make it more reasonable. On one hand, there's this picture painted like everyone does it and can be what they want, but at the same time, morphs are fucking expensive, and in any reasonable universe, people would be hesitant to jump - yet the developers describe it as this insanely metropolitan, laissez faire "Brave New World" scenario where people don't even identify ethnically anymore (aside from Luna).

But then you suddenly still have the russians being mobsters on Titania.

And things like gender dysphoria or possible issues with AGI:s sleeving in skinsuits and transhumans sleeving in toasters are flat-out ignored, and treated like non-existent.

It's like the writers were pulled between this really awesome concept, their own fundamental human and reasonable nature, and the no-holds-barred fundamentalist aspects of their political beliefs.

And it makes for an interesting but ultimately schizoid setting, with relatively large discrepancies between what you'd expect, what's reasonable given the facts provided, and how things actually work when presented.

>>49786607
>>49786712
I recall reading that altering gender identity is one of the more simpler psychosurgical processes. As in, the techniques have been refined to the point that it's a fairly reliable procedure now.

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>>49786715
>don't believe in biological differences between male and female bodies.

But that's retarded.

>>49786715
I mean, you get a -10 for switching into a morph that was a different physical sex than your last one, so...yeah.

>>49786712
Let me clarify a bit: there is gender dysphoria in the setting, but it's more wrapped up in the body dysmorphia disorder in the setting (page 212 of the core book). A morph's physical sex is just one of many things that a resleeving person can feel incredibly uneasily about, even if it was the biological sex they were born into BECAUSE of those biological differences in a grill and a goy. They do in fact acknowledge it can be a potential problem, since it's a disorder that you can't just get rid of easily.

This is why being a "supersoldier" in Eclipse Phase is much more attributed to one's ability to easily resleeving into new bodies with minimal problems, whether that new body is a qt shortstack fury morph or a hideous novacrab.

>>49786809
"bluepilled cuck, -10", the same modifier all your posts have

>>49786912
That would fall under Personality Editing (page 232 of the core book), which has a negative modifier of anywhere from -10 to -30 with a minimum SV gain of 1d10/2+3 (which, remember, you still gain even if the procedure was successful or not). If gender identify is considered a Major change (up to the GM I guess) that's a -30 modifier, which is nothing to sneeze at.

>>49786536

Well, "slice of life" is something which is consistently asked for from the developers and might actually get some attention sometime.

But, in general, remember that employment paradigms are a bit different in EP. In capitalist systems, if you're not like, core management, you're a contractor usually on for specific jobs or functions. You might be on contract with several medical facilities to respond when they need something - or maybe you're on retainer for one of those big, scary jobs they need someone really good to come fix. Or you mix medical skill with admin, so you can oversee AIs and infomorphs doing the make-work and then step in when things need someone with dedication.

And infomorphs are still a pretty small percentage of the population, and high-speed specialized servers are resource intensive. So usually the people use them for specific projects in mind, if you have free time you can still work on your own research if you do not have the cash to build a hypercorp R&D server farm. And remember, Argonauts still exist, doing science for it's own sake.

In the New Economy, you don't need "cash now" to live and breathe, so you can get by developing a reputation on those limited cases because you have a very valuable specific skill.

>>49786834

You're wrong - specificity is the only thing that makes those skills worth it.

>>49786809
What page?

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>>49786961
imagine using those terms unironically

>>49786988

272. The swing is pretty narrow because the most an individual modifer can be is +/- 30, but there's some indicative stuff there. This is also the page with the table of results on an Alienation/Integration roll.

>>49786917
>>49786809
>>49786721

This means, BTW, that the game categorizes the switching of genders during a resleeve to be as much of a negative impact as going from meat to steel. What THAT means is for you to interpret.

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>>49786834
>make them Knowledge skills

Too valuable to make Knowledge skills. If you did that, everyone would see it as a no-brainer thing to spend their Knowledge-mandated CP on, and it's already hard to get people to actually make use of those points and pick interesting shit or spread their points around.

That being said, looking at the Medicine and Hardware fields, I'm finding myself agreeing with you. Most of them are too specific, and the fields would be better sorted under the Profession or Academics skills, and then be used in conjunction with the Medicine or Hardware skills as appropriate.

Or something. As it is, you'd be useless as a Paramedic if you're invested in General Practice, which is just silly. But if they were general skills, you could just be a better Paramedic with Profession: Paramedic to complement that generic Medicine skill, but you'd still be able to do a general range of medicine stuff.

>>49786877
>They should've made more of a point out of not everyone body-hopping
It's there. It just doesn't come up that much because much of the source material concerns either the game itself or how the fiction relates to player characters. As the player characters are, by default, Exceptional People, the bodysurfing angle gets more attention than is proportional to how (un)common it actually is among the plebs.

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>>49787008
>imagine using those terms unironically
There's worse ones, such as "micro-aggression", "patriarchy" and "male privilege".

Picture related.

>>49786823
I remember a while back someone wrote something up on a Venusian based simulspace forum that was like Romanesque virtual 4chan/fetlife/silk road. It was particularly keen on simulated experiences and commerce, with some sort of partially abstracted virtual drug market

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>>49786715
>Furies are predominantly female because the increased aggression wired into the morph combined with male behavior models and hormone levels results in violent psychosis
>the devs don't believe in biological differences between male and female bodies

>>49787086
I mean, I interpret it as the fact that, while people's minds can be very adaptable to new things, switching bodies is still a harrowing experience for many people in the setting. Just because PCs almost never have a problem with it (or can have the problem be mitigated with their own resources) doesn't mean that the average transhuman could.

This is one of the reasons why I depict spacecraft travel as being more common in my EP, because people like keeping their bodies, birth bodies or not, and don't like continually hopping from point A to point B if it means they have to go through risking another disorienting or extremely uncomfortable feeling of resleeving. That, and I find the idea of spacecraft travel being rare in a sci-fi setting to be heresy, SUE ME

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>>49787016
>>49786809
Alright, now I'm savvy, I wasn't sure what you were talking about at first. This is just a standard test, though, and if you succeed, you'll be fine. Hardly representative of long-term gender dysphoria brought on by having a completely different body.

It just seems like this is extremely, extremely downplayed. A -10 on two x3 tests isn't that much, either, and the maximum is -30 either way. It's completely counteracted by just having used a similar morph before, for example.

So if I'm jumping from a male splicer to a female splicer, that's literally 0 issue in regards to these tables, and unless you fail monumentally, you'll suffer no additional effects, let alone long-term effects.

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>>49787329
>Furies are predominantly female because the increased aggression wired into the morph combined with male behavior models and hormone levels results in violent psychosis

Is this stated somewhere, or is it just inferred from the ongoing anarcho-psychosis of the developers?

>>49786521
Apparently some recent studies have found that the only difference between the male and female brain is the number of neurons in a small part of the brain (or some other part of the brain, not sure on the specifics)(having the number of neurons associated with one sex, and the body of another, is also the reason some people are transgender), so as far as the brain goes, it would be a simple thing to go in there and change that. As far as hormones and the actual body, there's already a modifier for that.
>>49786712
>It's even mentioned that some morphs are predominantly female (such as the Fury)but it's never explained why.
Apparently its to cool down the "hotheadedness" caused by the various combat augs and yes, its just as stupid as it sounds.
Also the "Furies are all grills" thing appears to have been quietly removed.

>>49787444
Its stated in the core book

>>49787394
Keep in mind that the average person's attribute is anywhere from 10 to 15, meaning they need to beat a 45 to succeed on their integration and alienation tests.

Sure, if you were going from a male splicer to a female splicer you only get a +10 to your roll (-10 for different sex, +20 for same morph type). You need to beat a 55 on both tests, which is only slightly above a coin toss to fail. You still have a 45% chance to fail, which is not not a small margin. You also have a wider margin of failure for a Severe Failure, which is even worse.

>>49787444
Only the morph description.

Look, kid, if you're gonna shitpost, at least familiarize yourself with the context of your shitposting.

>>49786877
Don't forget Japanese people still being racist as fuck in the Martian outback, Okinawans clustering together like in Honolulu, and Chinese people still being called "chink". (Sunward section on mars, forgot the page number)

>>49787394

I mean, you take a -10 on all physical actions for 24 hours even if you succeed.

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>fucking cancer
>epg overrun by idiots
>requesting erasure squad

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>>49787478
>Also the "Furies are all grills" thing appears to have been quietly removed.

That's fucking stupid. Just have it be them being mostly female because it was a marketing gimmick or something. Or some other science mumbo jumob that justifies it.

I JUST WANT MY LOCKER ROOM SCENES FULL OF FURY GRILLS DOING THINGS LIKE "JUST MESSING AROUND IT'S JUST A PRANK" SLAPPING EACH OTHER'S BUTTS WITH TOWELS OR GROPING EACH OTHER IN COMPLETELY HETEROSEXUAL WAYS. IS THAT TOO MUCH TO ASK

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>>49787478
>Apparently some recent studies have found that the only difference between the male and female brain is the number of neurons in a small part of the brain
That's still only at the verymost superficial level. It's like looking at different cells between different population groups and be like "yup, these are clearly identical!".

>Also the "Furies are all grills" thing appears to have been quietly removed.

It's still in the Morph Recognition Guide and the Core Rulebook available for free download. Based on what we know about the developers, it also sounds incredibly out of place.

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>>49787498
>Keep in mind that the average person's attribute is anywhere from 10 to 15

Has this ever applied to any player, anywhere? 10 is likely the absolute minimum anyone will ever have in SOM/WIL. But more importantly, we're still talking about an effective modifier of 0 (it's actually +10 for same type of morph, only +20 if it's also your original morph type) for gender alone, and it's only relevant immediately when sleeving, unless you fail.

>>49788125
You'd be surprised how many players dump their WIL or SOM down to 10 and leave it at that, or 15 at most; neither of those two numbers are good things when it comes to resleeving. And as I understand it,

>Character’s original morph type (what they were raised with)

Means that you get a +20 if you spent the majority of your life as a splicer, and

>Character has previously used this type of morph

Means you've used that morph type once before and that's it, only giving you a +10.


At any rate, the chance for failing is still high enough where it's not brushed off as a minor inconvenience, especially if your MoF is super high; suffering a -10 to ALL actions for a minimum of 4 days isn't what I'd call something you can just ignore as a negligible issue. Nor is suffering SV from failing the alienation test (and since most people's trauma threshold isn't very high, they have a good chance of getting a trauma or derangement if they fail). That shit sticks with you for a while, and God forbid if that shit starts accumulating.

So if you sleeve from a male splicer into a female olympian, you're getting a -10 modifier overall; ANOTHER -10 if that olympian is decked out with augs. Which, again, for the vast majority of transhumanity is not a great thing if their WIL or SOM is 10-15.

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Rate my AGI lads

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>>49788275
We need new EP memes. These ones are always good to see now and then but...

>>49787478
>Apparently some recent studies have found
Nice source faggot.
>have found that the only difference between the male and female brain is the number of neurons in a small part of the brain
Well all it took was a trip to wikipedia to prove that wrong
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neuroscience_of_sex_differences
>Inter- and intrahemispheric connectivities are different between male and female.
>Several studies have shown the hippocampi of men and women to differ anatomically, neurochemically, and also in degree of long-term potentiation
> In accordance with the sexual dimorphism of the amygdala, the right VPMC is more dominant in an active limbic system for males while the left is more dominant in females.
>Positron emission tomography studies have shown that men and women ranging from the ages of 19 to 32 years old metabolize glucose at significantly different rates in the orbital prefrontal cortex
>There are sex differences in locus coeruleus dendritic structure that allow for an increased reception and processing of limbic information in females compared to males.
>it has been found that males have larger and longer planum temporale and Sylvian fissure while females have significantly larger proportionate volumes to total brain volume in the superior temporal cortex, Broca's area, the hippocampus and the caudate
>Global and regional grey matter (GM) differs in men and women. Women have larger left orbitofrontal GM volumes and overall cortical thickness than men
And thats just a few of the differences between male and female brains.
Way more than just one the number of neurons in one small region.

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>>49788411
>only 1 moxie

>>49788464
Should I have become a luck AGI?

>>49787444
OP here. Image is entirely accurate.

>>49788499
Having only a Moxie of 1 is gonna suck. You don't need to splurge on it, but having a minimum of 3 is always good to have.

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>>49787547
>Only the morph description.
>Look, kid, if you're gonna shitpost, at least familiarize yourself with the context of your shitposting.

Yeah, no, it doesn't say that in my Core Rulebook, and not in my Morph Recognition Guide.

Hi everyone!

*nuzzles*

I'm Franco, and it's nice to meet you! I've been looking for a welcoming community for some of my interests, and I heard this was a good place! How do I play a shapeshifting shaman in this game?

*notices neotenic futas*

oWo What's this?

*pounces*

>>49788411
>1 moxie
>Motivations aren't +/-
>Super high COG, but only 10 COG skills
>Super high INT, but only 1 or two INT skills
>Super high WIL, but nothing to do with it except pass stress tests

Drop your aptitudes down and get more skills and moxie

>>49788535
>I can't fuckin read; the post

>>49788591
What Skills would you say a former research AI would have baring the ones they currently do?

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>>49788382
>Means that you get a +20 if you spent the majority of your life as a splicer, and
>Means you've used that morph type once before and that's it, only giving you a +10.

That's exactly what I said.

>>49788617
Depends on what they were researching. Medicine skills or academics makes sense, as do interests potentially.

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>>49788591
>I'm retarded: the post II, electric boogaloo

>>49788751
They where used in the filed of applied and theoretical nanotechnology at Trinity College Cambridge.

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>>49788765
Pick up physics and chemistry at least then

It sounds like this character isn't ever going to leave a lab though, which could be a problem depending on what kind of game they're in.

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>>49787355
>This is one of the reasons why I depict spacecraft travel as being more common in my EP, because people like keeping their bodies, birth bodies or not, and don't like continually hopping from point A to point B if it means they have to go through risking another disorienting or extremely uncomfortable feeling of resleeving. That, and I find the idea of spacecraft travel being rare in a sci-fi setting to be heresy, SUE ME

At most, space travel takes, what, a couple of weeks? They talk about ego-casting and shit, but honestly, unless it's a real fucking emergency or you're doing it out of some other form of necessity, I can't see that it would be massively prevalent.

It's another one of those weird discrepancies in the writing.

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>>49788801
It's actually an AGI Uplift bodysurfing in another player's ghostrider module.

>>49788801
There currently living in the ghost rider module of another PC while we do operations on the moon. Ill have to pick up physics and chemistry in game, thanks for the tips lad.

>>49787497
Where? The description talks about behavioral modifications but doesn't say that it's because of gender. On that note, the description says they TEND TO BE female, as in male ones exist, just on a 1/10 ratio.

Also, just spit balling here, maybe furies are female to fit the aesthetic of the actual origin of the word.
https://www.britannica.com/topic/Furies

>>49785783
not only that, you can self destruct or go theseus on your enemies if you need to.

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>>49788869
>the moon
You bigoted fucking digi-toaster, it's called Luna!

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>>49788905
It's much more likely that they named them like that because of the Furies. Knowing the political agenda of the developers, it is no accident that the primary combat morph is female, and I have no doubt that the whole bit about it being because men are raving psychos used to be there, but was silently removed later, just like was said earlier in the thread.

It's probably just been removed from newer prints.

>>49787086
>What THAT means is for you to interpret.
I honestly could believe that. On one hand you can't feel anything, on the other you feel things you never have before. As someone who had to go through anesthetics I can say it's weird but manageable.

>>49789039
Probably the case. DESU I never understood why everyone yammers on about the devs being SJWs when I only found like 1 thing in all the books I've read so far as a GM that could be interpreted as such.

Either way, the fact that they'd take that out at least shows some sense of self awareness about how ridiculous it sounds to someone of a different ideology.

>>49788983
If we're going to use old and outdated terms meatbag, please correctly use its mother word Selene or mǣnōn.

>>49788869
Rule number 1 about Luna, they don't like to be reminded that it's owned by TITAN ground zero. Stop calling it "the moon".

Rule number 2 never call them "Loonies". It's literally their N word in every way.

>>49789127
>Probably the case. DESU I never understood why everyone yammers on about the devs being SJWs

Lets follow a line of thinking here.

>The manuals are all writen by anarkidies.
>Anarkidies are anarcho colectivist except with some exceptions.
>Anarkiddies are always full of "social justice"
>"Social justice" is the buzzword of tumblrinas and SJW.

Therefore the devs are SJWs, they are just subtle about it.