What do you think it's like living as an average citizen

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Weebiness aside, basically this entire game.

If you don't see the evil day to day, why would you worry? Get up, kiss your partner(s) goodbye, go to work, get paid, have a good life.

If the evil empire avoids being overtly totalitarian, and quality of life is high, why worry that the guy in charge is an alien shapeshifter/half-demon/necromancer/whatever?

>>49749174
I've always had a massive problem with this scale, because it only functions if you're a post-modern thinker with an incredibly shallow understanding of post-modern thought.

>>49749215
What this guy says. As long as it's happening to someone else and you don't have to watch, it's pretty easy to ignore a lot of things.

That said, it also matters what kind of evil you're dealing with. Is the evil nation evil because the king is running all the public works projects with zombies and necromancy is an automatic evil action? See, the common dude ain't gonna care. He'll probably be pretty okay with that, because he's not getting used as corvee labor to build an aqueduct. That's an entirely different level of evil from routine public human sacrifice to endlessly hungry gods.

>>49749174
Obligatory.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn1VxaMEjRU

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>>49749174
Just ask an American

>>49749344
The Aztecs show us that people can even get used to the concept of constant human sacrifice and still maintain a healthy degree of public order.

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>>49749174

>>49749391
Riiight... found the america hater. Let's move on with the thread.

>>49749174
>smartest man in the world
>figures muh alien attack will unite everyone
Watchman's plot was garbage and the least interesting thing about the comic. The comic, itself, was good. His motives were good, his execution was something an edgy 13 year old would come up with.

Hint: Having good motives isn't what makes a villain great. It's about self-consistency, presentation, and execution by the storyteller.

Ozymandias fails at all three in the film, and only succeeds in the latter two in the comic. However, the joker - depending on who's writing - scores all three.

Besides norks and ISIS, can you really find an "evil nation"?
They're all chaotic neutral at worst.

>>49749499
Chyna

>>49749499
Ancient Aztecs (pointless blood sports, mutilation, sacrifices - although they notably trended towards using the people they invaded, they had overpopulation problems that lead to them not valuing people), certain slices of time in Rome (more blood sports, torture as a form of entertainment), the Nazis, Japan (crushing imperialism with inescapable enforced poverty and feudalism - you still see echoes of it in their current new money vs. old money), China (debatedly), India (sanctioned rape).

There wasn't any real good reasons for them to kill people or blood sports, nor mutilation of various people for reasons.

>>49749391
>>49749459
>If you're not with us, you're against us.
Ausfag here and basically everyone I've ever spoken to thinks America's going to drag us all into a pointless world war. That's not an "edgy" position to seem cool, it's the standard "guy in a pub" public opinion.

>>49749394
Good quote.

>>49749535
A country's leadership can be fucked but the people still decent.

Hell, the system can be fucked, but the leadership and the people decent.

It's almost like a kind of inertia. Once shit starts to spiral out of control into "sacrifice 100 slaves per day for a month" territory, people start to set their clocks by it. You'd possibly have an entire nation of people going "That's fucked up and somebody should stop it." Hell, the priest holding the knife could have been thinking that.

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>>49749240
An anti-villain like Reinhardt absolutely wreaks that scale by fitting into the top bottom and middle tiers at the same time.

>>49749607
eh, we might drag others into it but were most likely not gonna start it.

>>49749692
Depends what you mean on "start" It.

War in Iraq was planned before 9-11 and was linked to Osama bin Laden only in spin doctor minds.

But that's enough politics. Bad shit happens under every government, from coverups to collusions to literal war crimes being done by the Russians in Syria right now for example.

>>49749174
Depends on the evil nation in question. Some are basically giant slave-states, others are Orwellian nightmares, others are perfectly fine on the surface, until you realize what they do to criminals and other nations.

>>49749721
then i think you answered the question the OP asked, to be a citizen in an evil nation is just to be a citizen.

Unless that country does something blatantly evil, like starting a war, but even then, it will probably be spinned that they didn't since victor tells all anyway.

>>49749743
>does something blatantly evil, like starting a war
Hold up, how is starting a war blatantly evil?
That shit requires context. Unless going to war with the Evil Empire of Evilness is evil in and of itself.

>>49749391
>Mexicans see America as a threat
>Yet they keep illegally entering the country
huh

>>49749790
That's because Mexico is a shithole, to the point people who tried to rise up against the Cartels were shot down by the fucking military.

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>>49749174

hi.

villains who are pure evil/lust for power for fine so long as you treat them as a force of nature

the story that takes place should simply be man v nature-- the villain is no longer a person, but a natural disaster

this is how one can make good story of purely evil villains,

thank you

>>49749814
>villains who are pure evil/lust for power for fine so long as you treat them as a force of nature
I'd argue otherwise about the lust for power one.

There are plenty of people in real life who did horrible things, just out of a lust for power. They might have dressed it up in ideology to get followers, but at the end of the day they just lusted for power.

>>49749391
based Brits

>>49749174
>Dr. Breen
>Reluctant villain only doing evil because of his situation
That's funny, anon. You're funny.

>>49749344
>Is the evil nation evil because the king is running all the public works projects with zombies and necromancy is an automatic evil action? See, the common dude ain't gonna care. He'll probably be pretty okay with that, because he's not getting used as corvee labor to build an aqueduct. That's an entirely different level of evil from routine public human sacrifice to endlessly hungry gods.
Hello there, Silver Prince.

(Of course, in addition to all the ghosts and zombies continuing to serve his country after death, a good portion of them are getting forged into eternal torment in magical items, so it's really very evil, but the layman doesn't know)

>>49749391
>France>Syria
Kek
>Italy>Portugal
Wat
>Poland>Russia
ronery.jpg

>>49750034
>>Poland>Russia
>ronery.jpg
Russha was probably coming in close second for the murricans, tbhfam.

>>49749215
Well is it even an evil nation at that point? The whole question loses its point if the evil nation isn't bad place to live in.

>>49750034
I think if's Italy>Afghanistan not Portugal.

>>49749174

Basically, being a Muslim in the Middle East.

>>49749535
>Ancient Aztecs (pointless blood sports, mutilation, sacrifices
These were not pointless, they were to strengthen the gods and keep the sun rising tomorrow too. I'd say that's a pretty damn good reason to sacrifice someone!

>>49749174

Just ask any Saudi Arabia or US citizens then.

>>49749535
Also Europe, during the eras of War-as-sport. That shit is pretty grim.

>>49749174
I mean, most likely you'd vehemently defend the actions of your country. See America for an example - whether they're evil or not is irrelevant; no country has had the same level of blind nationalism since Germany in the 30s.

>>49750034
Portugal is has no flag over it. Its that whiteband between Spain and the atlantic.

>>49750172
Yes. That anon was thinking that Italy had Portugal as it's target. Although it's actually Afghans.

>>49749790
well yes, it's the vote of the guys that stayed

>>49750133
I dunno, US is filled with people that absolutely hate America and what is stood for

>>49750443
American here. I've met a few who share my belief that the US government is hopelessly corrupt and voting is a sham. I've met far too many more who believe that refusing to vote(in presidential elections, at least) is unpatriotic and the source of all our problems.

In a normal world they think they are good, but their idea of good is radically different. Unless they are objectors to their national policies of course.

In a world where good and evil is some sort of rigid scale, they would think they are evil, but will find that good.

>>49750133
Don't worry, the UK is hurtling down that path as well now.

>>49749391

>ukraine is literally suffering a low key russian invasion right now
>still says america

>>49751006
Its probably not very new.

2013, I think.

>>49749790
They assume USA bombs their own country at last.

>>49749174
SU, USA, III Reich, Imperial Brittan, Germany, France, Russia, Austro-Hungary, Japan and to lesser extent due to different times Ottoman Empire and Poland-Lithuania and any other I forgot.
They were Big Evil Empires to nations they subjected, wanted to conquer or other empires they were at war with.
Yet to majority of their citizens they were protectors from outside evil or true force of benevolence that brought civilisation, peace and prosperity to less fortunate nations.

So no most citizens would think that they are the good guys and detect evil would show them as non evil.

If you want slaver conquering empire use Rome. Where most of guys where sure they are the good ones and most probably were neutral with wanting to be good.

>>49751006
Its not new I've seen this a few years ago.

>>49749174
>What do you think it's like living as an average citizen in an evil nation?
Well, you can come up with real life examples:
-USA
-China
-Russia
In those cases, propaganda helps keeping citizens calm and in most of the time they don't know they're "bad guys"

ISIS uses terror making people fear for their lives, so they submit, but they know htey have crazy and evil rulers.

>>49749174
Southern US and "peculiar institution" ideology in regards to slavery is one example. Slavery, in this view, is a positive good; it brings primitive peoples into society and teaches them the ways of civilization in exchange for labor, very quid pro quo, very paternalist.

Politics always works by creating a useful polity, whose opinions, interests, and goals are the criteria upon which one acts; definitionally, it is also exclusionary. Ideology is the means by which those who are excluded are either made to appear as if they are in the useful polity or to justify why the ones are excluded from the polity aren't: at it's core, it's because they have mutually exclusive interests, but it's dressed up by various ways of degrading the excluded and raising the included.

>>49749174
>Would most of the citizens even realize that they're the bad guys?

Easy answer to that, just look nazi Germany.

Do you think not most of them didn't think they were doing the right thing in exterminating everything "not right"?

No they thought striving for the master race was the right thing, people start doing horrible things once enough indoctrinated

Lawful Evil: Depends on how retarded its laws are. Quality of life can be pretty good if you aren't a slave or one of the oppressed ethnicities. Freedom of speech would probably be nonexistent.

Neutral Evil: Bribing and trading favors is everyday life here. If you are rich and can afford a lot of bribes, it will be quite nice since you will be able to buy/do anything you want. Otherwise, it's normal.

Chaotic Evil: Honestly would suck unless you are close to one of the leaders. In Chaotic societies, the only law is the word of the leader, so be sure to not pissed the important people off.

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>>49749187
>average citizen

This entire game is from the perspective of the royals of an evil nation.

>>49754638
good job taking the blue pill, goyim.

>>49749174
actually I have to question this a bit. Why is the villain from Dragon Age not qualifying as High Tier? The Dark Spawn are basically just obeying their nature. Yes, their nature is violent and evil by our definitions, but invasion and war are basically reproductive processes for them right? The Archdemons are never given any other explanation than it's their nature to do the thing they do and cause blights? So why do they fall into Shit Tier rather than High Tier?

Further, I'd argue the mid tier and high tier could easily be switched or equated... having the villain doing a thing because it's it's nature to do so is actually a lot easier to write than making somebody who is retaliating for misdeeds done to them? Then again, when 'retaliating against misdeeds' is written really well, it's often bordering on great tier as well. IE: There's an actual argument that Magneto's violent means are necessary given the setting he's in and just how far certain nations go to try to annihilate mutants? Especially given he lived through the holocaust and literally equates mutants and the populations the Nazi's targeted.

>>49749174
the job of a good government is to protect it's citizens and to maintain a certain level of order and lawfulness over the lands it provides. It's duty is to make today very much like yesterday was, and tomorrow very much like today. A government, when run right, prevents random chance from fucking over it's citizens too badly, and allowing them to not worry about whether they will be able to survive for the forseeable future.

There are many ways to do this. A society that is very static, doesn't allow much advancement, could still be a stable and good run government provided people aren't worried about getting their heads chopped off at random (ie: without them having done something they can fairly easily avoid doing and can predict having done).

Lawful Evil Empires, I imagine, are actually very stable and their citizens moderately happy depending on their social class. Even the lowest classes, provided they aren't allowed to just die to the vagaries of chance, have a really good chance of being supportive.

I mean, arguably, Belen from Dragon age (to use the previous anon's talk about dragon age) sets up a Lawful Evil Government, and it is actually MORE stable than the Lawful Neutral Government that preceded it and more supported by it's citizens because it increases social stability and gave the casteless a method of insuring their survival short of whoring out their daughters to the nobility, becoming outright criminals, or accepting permanent exile for them and their descendants.

>>49749607
Yeah, France and co thought that way too in 1930s. Why die for Danzig? Because you are next, idiots.

>>49749174
Who is the villain in Dragon Age?

>>49758527
The Fade

>>49749174
Like normal life?

>>49750502
>dosnt vote
>why dosnt the government represent us?

>>49749174
The Dark Knight's Joker breaks that scale by being simultaneously meh tier and pretty compelling at the same time.

>>49749174
not at all, just look at america. Half our population is willing to vote for a corrupt as fuck career politician who is hell bent on bringing the western world into a possibly nuclear ww3 with russia. People are stupid.

>>49749391

Not my fault our president is a black Lex Luthor, and his replacement is either American!Margret Thatcher or a fucking Megacorp owner.

>>49759355
>it could be either of them
Why is the world so shit, anons?

>>49759296

>Votes for Gary what'shisname
>Gary what'shisname loses anyway
>Eternal Clinton.LIFE

Thanks. I sure feel better about exercising my power as a citizen to the freest place in the world!

>>49759468
>I didn't get what I wanted
>blames the system opposed to 43% of eligible voters who didn't vote.


>as if the majority would vote for him anyways

>>49749174
>Ausfag here and basically everyone I've ever spoken to thinks America's going to drag us all into a pointless world war. That's not an "edgy" position to seem cool, it's the standard "guy in a pub" public opinion.
Yeah. Obama and HRC are both blaming Russia to cover up the assassination of whistleblowers who get caught releasing campaign emails to Wikileaks, and HRC is out there declaring that she will treat "cyberattacks" the same as physical military attacks.
So if the Democrats win and that old bitch is being honest for once, war with Russia is less than a year away.
So your position that we're going to start World War 3 isn't far-fetched.

>>49759552
I tell ya hwat, the problem is the parties. They stuff the ballots for their candidates, and whoever's the better stuffer wins it.

>>49749174
This chart is pure shit.

>>49750443
Something like 90%+ of Americans are patriotic, dude. That's not "filled with" people who hate their own country.

>>49762709
>source: my ass

>>49749391
Why does that random African nation fear the one with the Star?

Is that another African nation or what?

>>49753315
You forgot to include Britain, France, Germany, Australia, Canada, the UAE, Qatar, Venezuela, Brazil, and Japan, along with any number of Middle Eastern shitholes.

None of these are truly evil, but they are all complicit in really awful shit. Hell, even the Scandinavian countries do plenty of bad things.

>>49762794
The star is Somalia, I think. The country fearing the Somali is Kenya, which is one of the most organized countries in Africa.

>>49756615
You know you have a whole containment board to shit up. Why do you spend time shitting up the other boards?

>>49749174
As fun as this chart is, I think one way to interpret it is: "The less selfish the villains goals are, the more compelling character they are".

>>49762797
I think the lesson is that every country with any power has abused it at some point.

>>49749499

>China
>Iran
>Saudi Arabia
>Canada

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>>49762923
>Canada up there with ISIS, North Korea, and Saudi Arabia

>>49762797

Doing evil deeds=/=being evil. Even lawful good characters have to thump a few heads and kick down the livelyhood of a farmer or two because he's feeding the setting equivilent of nazis. All that matters is that they repent at the end of the day and don't revel in doing these deeds.

>>49759625

>Trump wins
>Trump goes bear hunting with putin within a week of inauguration.
>Best friends
>Agree to form United States of Russia and America
>Begin war with rest of world
>Win effortlessly
>Conservative ideals spread across the world
>Only 2 parties are capitalists and communists.
>Strange balance of power forms
>???
>Eternal peace on earth

Ha, but no for real, please don't let Clinton win. She's an honest to god murderer.

>>49762923
>China
>evil

Chinafag here, these guys are more chaotic neutral than any kind of evil. Shit just happens and no one quite knows why and the government has to try really hard to stop shit happening because if shit happened naturally it would be really shit for everyone including Taiwan.

>>49762923

>China
>Evil

Sure they're our idological rival, but what evil things have they done? The worst you can accuse them of is being masochistic sacrificing chunks of their population, but it's their population to sacrifice, and the populance is obviously willing or else they would have crumbled to revolt decades ago.

>>49762912
Indeed! We humans fuck up a lot, and even the best of us have hurt others. Hell, many of our most revered heroes, rightfully admired for accomplishing amazing things, have decent amount of blood on their hands.

Great men are not necessarily good men, after all.

Also, you have to grade great and superpowers on a curve.

>>49763030
>they would have crumbled to revolt decades ago
The Chinese have had their spirits broken decades, if not centuries ago.
You can count the peasant revolts against the government on two hands, despite have a continuous culture for millenia.

>>49763026
>China
>evil
I think most people are referring to the totalitarian censorship and imprisonment of critics. I'd put them pretty squarely in LE.

>>49749665

chart's shit anyways. It explicitely shits on the idea of characters who are evil for the sake of being evil, despite those being some of the most fun and interesting characters. Not every villains needs to be a "shades of grey" guy who is trying to do something good through evil means.

Fuck, it doesn't even understand all the characters used as examples- Vriska(and yeah, hoksuck, I know, but I read it years ago) isn't a villain, and the evil things she does aren't done for power, but for an opportunity to prove herself because that's what she was raised to do- war. Hell, the only really, truly definably evil thing she did- killing Tavros- wasn't done because she wanted to, it was done because he came there to kill her, and suddenly the joke wasn't so funny, because she had asked him to kill her before, months ago, and he hadn't, he had been a little bitch and left her to bleed out.

I fucking hate this chart, and every time people bring it up I lose a lot of respect for them.

>>49763007
Same guy you're quoting here. I largely agree. I mean, look at the Allies in WWII. They committed a fair number of atrocities, but they still come off looking waaaaaay more righteous than the Axis.

I mean, plenty of good leaders have done bad things to protect their people, out of misplaced idealism, or because they were living in less enlightened societies and thus being a dickbag to certain people was much more socially acceptable in past times.

>>49749790

most of the illegals aren't mexicans. They're from further south, and pass through mexico on their way to the US. Mexico as a whole actually supports a border wall- just a border wall between them and their southern neighbours.

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Is this a great villain thread?

>>49763105

no.

>>49763024
>Agree to form United States of Russia and America
>not the Global Hegemonic Empire of Russo-America

>>49763113
But Char is literally a god tier villian.

1. Starts as grunt for someone else, shares their ideals but disagrees with methods, and has personal vendettas
2. Sees one of the two people that actually understand him die in battle between him and an enemy he's grown to understand, to which he has a connection too that allows the two to understand each other implicitly
3. Takes revenge on those that wronged him, but continues to fight main character for personal reasons
4. Years later, continues fighting for ideals, only to see a young ally he had hope for fucking mindraped. Yet another person who could understand him on another level
5. Is ultimately left so embittered that he becomes what he hates, and has to be stopped by force.

His goals of spacenoid freedom and forcing humanity to evolve are both arguably rational and even good things.

god tier.villian

Unicorn was a shit and unnecessary addition to him though and should be ignored.

>>49749174

>Joker isn't top of the foodchain.

Being a villain isn't about motive. It's about charisma. It's about a driving theme. It's about the ability to make you hate and respect them all at once.

And you can't actually tell me that Ozymandias was a compelling villain with a realistic motive can you? The ending to watchmen is full of edgy-in-a-bad-way bullshit philosophy and Ozymandias is little more than a delusional despot.

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>>49749174

Given how people view corruption and evil in our world, I would say most citizens just go about their daily lives. They are too occupied or afraid to raise a hand or speak outwardly. That is, if they are aware. Most probably aren't

>>49750089
>doesn't mention Russia, Iran, or Syria

Spotted the Assad loyalist, guys!

I know this is bait.

>>49763164

yeah but that's not what the thread is about.

>>49749174
Living in America is pretty okay.

>>49763214
I recognize all but Great Tier. Who is he?

>>49763176
Not OP, not a tremendous Ozymandias fan either, but the Joker has never struck me as particularly demanding of respect or being at all charismatic. He's just a clown that occasionally reckons himself not unlike the caricature of a mobster who's inexplicably followed by lower-budget clowns.

Only reason he's even scary is the main character refuses to kill people and the police are astronomically bad at their jobs.

>>49763304

what version have you seen?

>>49763267
Anders Breivik. Evil motherfucker killed 77 people at a summer camp in Norway. Piece of shit is a neo Nazi to boot.

>>49763315
Most of the film and cartoon versions, I've seen plenty of bits from comics but I don't really read comic books so unless there's a magic non-garbage Joker hiding out in some part that's not oft-posted online I don't know what people see in the fuck.

>>49763325
That's the elder tier, not the great tier.

>>49763325
>evil motherfucker
>piece of shit
Found the libcuck; Breivik was a hero.

>>49763333

did you miss Batman animated series somehow? Try watching the episode where he corrupted Harley, Return of the Joker from Batman Beyond, basically anything where he's using his charisma instead of just his posse of clowns. Dude talked a psychiatrist into wearing a clown costume and forced her into an almost inescapable dependency on him, nevermind what he did to Tim.

>>49763325
>hating on Breivik
>>>/reddit/

>>49763360

maybe not a hero, but definitely a prophet, holy shit.

>>49763360
>>49763393
>waaah brown people are invading
>let's go kill white children

Guy was a complete monster. Seeing him whine about his tv in prison just makes me laugh.

>>49763425
Kill the traitor before the enemy.

>>49749794
Yeah, it's too bad their neighbor to the north has been arming murderous cartels there.

>>49763390
I assume you mean this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9bZf7XhlKls

Honestly it strikes me as something no psychologist would fall for. It's standard-fair "I'm putting on the face I know will work on you" bullshit every so-called charming person in real life uses to prey on people who don't keep their ears and eyes open.

Ooh, lemme tempt you with something I know you want, then tell you something sympathetic. Lemme paint you some ideal picture that might be real, might be not, the truth doesn't matter because it's a weapon being used to weaken you. Nobody with half an ounce of awareness falls for this shit, it's like cold reading and when people use meme jargon like talking about "frames" in persuasion.

>>49763024
Will the new symbol be a eagle with a bears head?

>>49763355
Oops, my bad.

>>49763360
>Durr hurr, you think killing innocent children over national politics is bad, therefore you're a liberal and cuck.

Fuck off, /pol/lutant shitstain. Breivik is a murderous fucktard, like every other cunt you pondscum idolize. His idiocy did nothing but butcher innocents; Europe is not better off one iota because of him.

>>49763489
>being baited this hard

>>49763484

she's kind of an idiot- the comics established she slept her way through medical school. But still.

>>49763425
If there is a Hell, I sincerely hope he rots there. What an asshole.

>>49750050
>Well is it even an evil nation at that point? The whole question loses its point if the evil nation isn't bad place to live in.

Well it all depends on how you qualify an evil nation.

Is the nation evil because it's filled with evil people? Is it evil because it's evil to its own citizens? Or is the nation evil because it has evil policy directed towards out-groups? You could arguably say them being any one of those three could qualify them.

What if you had a nation with very happy citizens that just lived there lives, and a government that very much cared for their security and well-being. What if this government ruthlessly subjugated their neighbors, exploited their land, killed and enslaved them, all to ensure a high quality of life for their own citizens? Is that evil?

>>49749174
Completely swap mid and high tier, put Magneto in great tier since that's actually his motivation.

>>49763507
That explains the only reason it worked then. That's the only kind of person that shit works on.

>>49763393
>loving a Neo Nazi bitch who cries about who hard it is in a Scandinavian prison
>>>/pol/

kek

Go back to your basement, you 90 IQ troglodyte.

>>49763541

right, and he picked her out. He was locked in that place and he managed to pick out the one person his shit would work on and targeted her, just like Hannibal and Clarice. Seriously, go watch the Death of the Joker scene from batman beyond now, it's fucked up, and gives you an idea of the demented shit he does. Then watch the whole movie to find out just what that ended up doing to Tim. Spoilers: Joker isn't back from the dead.

>>49763592
So he's an opportunistic shithead and a masochist. How does that make him worthy of respect?

>>49763498
Oh, I willingly walked into that, yes. But, you realize a lot of /pol/ posters are genuinely this awful, right?

>>49763618
Of course but that doesn't mean they're not also baiting the shit out of this thread.

>>49763609

opportunism is when the opportunity walks up to you, not when you create an opportunity, like he did not just once but twice. He led her every step of the way down that path.

And being a """misogynist""" has nothing to do with it- charisma does. You can say whatever you want about it being nearly impossible to pull that off, but that isn't just because it only works on certain people- it's because you need charisma to pull it off. You need to sound absolutely devoted to the ideas you're presenting, you need them to BELIEVE what you're saying is what you believe.Even given a perfect target like Harley, you would never be able to pull that shit off. Neither would anyone else in this thread.

>>49749174
>What do you think it's like living as an average citizen in an evil nation?
Depends on setting, culture, form of governance, local autonomy, laws, resources, etc, etc.

>Would most of the citizens even realize that they're the bad guys?
Depends on the above.

Also that chart is FUCKING ASININE. We have innumerable options for villains, motivations, methods, origins, natures. Factors and ideas that will vary an antagonists (be they people, animals, societies, forces of nature, gods, whatever may have you) appeal, saying nothing of the medium and tasks they are presented in. Holy fuck 10/10 you got my fucking reply.

>>49762781
http://www.gallup.com/poll/183911/smaller-majority-extremely-proud-american.aspx?utm_source=Politics&utm_medium=newsfeed&utm_campaign=tiles
>he doesn't know how to use Google

>>49763708
This is patriotism/proud to be Murkan at any level, by the way.

>>49763618

willingly and knowingly taking bait is not better than taking it by accident. You're an idiot either way.

>>49763445
It's too bad you literally cannot source this

>>49749391
>Afghanistan and India hating Pakistan
>Pakistan obliviously hating America

Kek.

>>49763861
>An estimated 1,400 weapons were lost by the ATF in Mexico.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2013/08/27/world/americas/operation-fast-and-furious-fast-facts/index.html

Tbh the cartels would have gotten weapons anyways but we made it a lot easier.

>>49763959
>allowed illegal gun sales, believed to be destined for Mexican drug cartels, in order to track the sellers and purchasers.
is a very different thing from
>arming murderous cartels

>>49764055
>going out of your way to let cartels have access to weapons
>not arming them

>>49749499
Tibet before the Chinese invaded. Widespread slavery, minor crimes punished by mutilation, medicine banned except for the dalai lamas literal piss and shit, treatment of women that would be considered extreme by the taliban. The Chinese are not gentle occupiers but when they say the Tibetans lived like animals they aren't lying.

>>49763618
Oh yes, that was obvious early on. I mean, this thread itself is bait for real world sniping and greentexting countries you don't like. Plus, stupid chart made to elicit rage is in the OP.

>>49763811
Oh fuck off, it's fun to insult /pol/ trolls. I know what I'm doing.
You have a small point, though. It IS foolish of me, but bait is often representative of people's real opinions, and calling these assholes on their horrid views is quite entertaining, even if doing so stands next to no chance of actually changing their minds.

Allow me my guilty pleasures, anon.

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>>49764135
Is this for real, and can you give me links that prove this? As far as I heard, it was basically the evil red chinese invading some gud boi county that dindu nuffin.

But I suppose that sounds too good to be true.

>>49764278
Unfortunately, that kind of thing is true. The pre-invasion Tibetan theocracy was a pretty harsh place and though the Chinese were harsh, Tibet does have running water, electricity and secular education thanks to them. The 14th Dalai Lama doesn't deny any of this. Pre-invasion he tried to make reforms and modernize Tibet while it was still a theocracy and he has softened a bit with the issue since he has stated that he would now be satisfied with greater autonomy of Tibet.

Penn & Teller: Bullshit did an episode about the subject titled 'Holier than Thou'. The Kundan film might also be an interesting view.

>>49763267
Great Tier
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Whitman

>>49749174

Who are we counting as the villain of Dragon age, here, since you posted the box art rather then an actual picture of one of them? The Archdemon or Loghain? The Archdemon is just a mindless swam/consume/reproduce dealie, but Loghain's motivation was a pretty damn good one. He had spent half of his life fighting Orlais, and had finally made Ferelden Free and Independent - and then the new King made a plot to a) Set aside his wife, Loghain's daughter to b) Marry the Empress of Orlais and return Ferelden to the Orlesian domination he'd fought so hard and suffered so much to throw off.

>>49749489
I much preferred movie oz. His plan makes more sense, is tepratabl4 and ties into the part where he and manhattan work on alternative energies.

I thought his presentation was fine, coming across a lot like the comic. Why do you say he wasnt consistent?

>>49765774

His motivations may have been good, but his execution left much to be desired. Throwing away half your damn army in the middle of a Darkspawn invasion, including the special order of dudes who devote their entire lives to fighting said gribblies, isn't exactly clever.

>>49763024
>>Conservative ideals spread across the world
Russia is corrupt as fuck and degenerate in their own way.

>>49749665
How is he a villain?

All the alternatives are vastly worse and war would have gone on without him anyway. Not to mention he probably was less prone to commit war crimes than the nobles before him.

>>49749391
How the fuck is Sweden any kind of threat to world peace?

This map seems like bullshit.

>>49766523
I think you're a moron who can't read this map.

>>49766561
I get that it's just what americans think. I would still like to know the reasoning.

>>49749174
Who is in elder god tier?

>>49762923
>Canada
I don't understand

>>49749742
Most of them are fine on the "surface".
In some, rest of society might be a mirror contemporary societies, but the equality to a aristocracy/technocracy might be the bad egg.

Then you have shit like The Mongols, who in the end, did nothing but prove everyone else suffered from Hubris

>>49756690
The Archdemons is in the weird spot where as the lore keeps piling up, more of a character and motive starts existing.

Ingame its just a endgame boss.

>>49762923
You're just pissed that we club seals, you fucking PETA faggot.

>>49766622
hitler lmao

>>49766744
what? you serious?

>>49766622
i think its ozzymendias from watchmen

>>49758527
A corrupted deity called the Archdemon is the final boss, but the series is so full of edgelord shit that you could argue for the Archdemon winning to be a good thing.

>>49763527
Well, you're just describing Israel at this point, so nah.

>>49763527
>What if this government ruthlessly subjugated their neighbors, exploited their land, killed and enslaved them, all to ensure a high quality of life for their own citizens? Is that evil?
Not at all, that's just imperial foreign policy.
The Other is not entitled to moral consideration.

>>49766756
no
If you mean the image, I agree with >>49766760
If you were asking for villains that belong in said tier, I can't think of any

>>49767053
>If you were asking for villains that belong in said tier, I can't think of any
Hitler

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>>49749391
Texan here. Are americans really that hated over seas?

>>49767233
Mostly disliked for being intrusive and obnoxious than hated, with some salt added to the dislike from being seemingly hypocritical and self-centered which is ironic because every country is just as self-centered, they just don't pronounce it over public TV in other countries but just circlejerking on forums and IRL

>people think america is evilbation
If that's true, why is it so hard to get these fucks to do a war of conquest?
They literally have a military larger than all the other militaries in the world combined.
For fucks sake, at least make some vassals or tributaries or something!

America hasnt been hardcore enough to be evil since the trail of tears.

>>49767233
Finn here. Hated is not the right word, except perhaps among those fans of Russia who missed the memo about the Cold War ending. The US is feared, not as an enemy but as an out of control friend.

Most of this goes back to your foreign policy under Bush, which was both unpredictable and extreme. I understand Americans have varied opinions over Obama, but at least he seems likely to end his term with less wars than he started with.

Presently a cause for anxiety is the fact that Trump, who has said some fairly insane things foreign policy wise, might become your next president. If Hillary wins she will, for example, need to make a show of the fact that the US will honor its Nato obligations if called upon.

>>49767233
It's mostly jealousy.

One way or another, Murrika is the center of the world. Wouldn't you be jealous and butthurt about whatever shithole you were born into not being the place where all the cool and fun and nice stuff happens every day as seen in TV and movies?

Gotta cope somehow so what better way than sour grapes?

t. spic

>>49767233
>Are americans really that hated over seas?
Hate is too strong a word. It's more annoyed by. Americans are just so damn obnoxious and lack any sense of self-awareness overall.

>>49749174
Friendly reminder that having good motives does not make you a interesting character.

>>49770830
No, but it makes you much more likely to be one. It's very hard to make a convincing villain without understandable motives.

>>49769613
American here.
Either candidate has some endgame status for america, between a literal race war and great wall of america or threats of actually doing world war 3 over data crimes.

If -either- of the candidates keeps up on their promises, quality of life is about to drop drastically in america, and war is likely to break out.

I think it is wise for you to feel like america is going to destabilize world peace right now. Assuming politicians aren't lying.
If they are, then we can all relax.

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>>49763485
The reverse. An eaglebear. Owlbear stats but with Preferred Enemy bonuses against delicious salmon.

>>49763024
>not calling it the imperium of man

>>49749174
Loghain did nothing wrong

>>49775353
Except risking the lives of every single man, woman, and child in Fereldan just for a simple power play.

>>49765665
>On one occasion at Camp Lejeune, Whitman and two other Marines were involved in an accident in which their jeep rolled over an embankment. Whitman single-handedly lifted the vehicle to free another Marine,[29] but fell to the ground unconscious from the effort. He was hospitalized for four days.

whoa

>>49763214
who are high and mid?

>>49769916
>t. american citizen

>>49763024
>Trump refuses to have America after Russia in the name
>Putin won't back down
>Trump fucks him to death
>nuclear exchange
>everyone but Trump and his immediate family are killed
>entire planet of orange narcissists living in a mad max wasteland

This is the future you chose

>>49769613
>seems likely to end his term with less wars than he started with.
American here. That's not happening. Not even fucking close.

>>49765665
It's always the Floridians, isn't it.

>>49778361
>Florida: America's America

>>49774280
>Assuming politicians aren't lying
they're always lying. destabilization is the last thing anybody in control wants.

>>49778376
https://twitter.com/_FloridaMan

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>>49749174
That really depends.

Chaotic Evil:

Most nations i can imagine here are either Somalia tier warlord states or absolute tyrannies ruled by madman. I think the average citizen here is either preocupied with survival or sees himself as another victim. The ones supporting it are doing it for power or because they are bought.

Chaotic neutral: Well i think the average citizen here is not participating in the evil shit.I think it is either a victim mentality or a justification because others are more bad. Well maybe we have a rotten system where 1/3 of the population is forced into debt slavery but just because we have to pay our huge army to stop these notaztecs from taking over and sacrificing all of us.

Lawful evil: Thats the interesting point for states in my opinion. Here you have a lot of different oppurtunities:

A) Warped sense of morality/completely different ethics

Mostly social darwinism. Your typical Nazi Germany. The true sind would be NOT to enslave/destroy our less er neighbours because it would hinder progress and would violate the law of Nature.

B) the other ones are even more evil

Well maybe we are an overmilitarized dictatorship but only to stop the fascists.

C) Being evil works

Well have you Seen this treehugging elves? Maybe we do some shady shit with the gnomes but at least our state has working sanitation.

D) Propaganda/the state censors the evil shit

What?! You want me to believe the blood knights kill innocents? My grandfather was one and i have learned about all their heroic deeds in school. You are just spreading halvling propaganda.

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>>49749174
>Thread about 'evil' nations and their people/rulers
>No mention of Doom
How disgusting.

>>49779036
But Doom is a good ruler, anon.

>>49779068
That's what the quotations are for.

>>49766570
No, that's not what it's saying. You don't know how to read the map

>>49767233
Well, to someone in ISIS (or any opposition group we're fighting), America IS the evil empire killing innocent people/taking land/destroying culture religion (whether any of those things are actual or just perceived is up for debate).

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>>49778784

>>49778376
>>49778361
The whole "Florida is crazy" thing is just a meme. It has to do with how the press view police records; if a man beats his wife to death with a sausage in every other state the press sees "man beats wife to death" while in Flordia they see "man beats wife to death with sausage".

>>49767233
Not straight hated, but usually considered dangerous and annoying. Expecially Texas. I'm sorry bro.

>>49779371
Dude, I've been to florida. It's incredibly awful there. Surreal-y so.

>>49779173
Anon you retard rethink through what he said.

>>49749174
>Writing out a design for a villain
>Basic summary of his character (without going into plot/lore details): mortal that's evil by nature (lore reasons), super racist and wants to kill off all races except for his own, wants to resurrect his ancestor's kingdom and reign of power (now that I write it like this, I realize that he's pretty much Hitler)
>He works his way into the higher ranks of a kingdom to instigate wars and have research materials, he seems like a minor villain helping a major villain but he's really the big bad that fooled the other big bad
>Part of the reasons for his actions is that he's trying to resurrect his dead ancestor because they were basically an evil demi-god, and it's in both of their natures to hate the other races and strive for total domination, so having an undead demi-god on your side (plus their undead army) is really good for doing that
>Feel that this character is kinda generic on premise but still has potential to be fleshed out
>Don't want the ancestor to be "an ancient evil has awakened" tier, but because of how I have the lore written there's no other way to work around this besides removing him from the plot entirely, but that gives less reason to the villainous descendant's actions
Writing a well-constructed villain is hard. Anyone got tips for writing villains?

>>49780120
>Anyone got tips for writing villains?
As a DM who genuinely believes that writing villains is one of the few good things he does, if you can never see one of your PCs thinking "well, he does kind of have a point" then you've failed to create a compelling villain.

>>49780120
If you're going to ape Hitler, at least do it half right.

>His race has been beaten and abused for decades.
>Laughing stock of the world.
>Out of all the lesser races, [Insert Race] is the number one enemy.
>His people cheer and praise his name when he takes power.
>Have open rituals in the name of this supposed deity.

Other than that, I really like what you've got written.

>>49749174
probably pretty chill. assuming the evil empire's a legit threat to everything else on the planet, then someone has to be managing that shit well. Assuming you're just a cog in a functioning but arguably misguided machine, you'd have to at least not be starving and dying in the street and steadily employed. That's 'average' anyway. no accounting for how the poor live or how poor is poor.

>>49780155
Hm, I think it'd be easier to achieve that if he wasn't so extreme, but since he's basically "I want to purge all of these inferior beings and take rule of their land" (okay yeah I unintentionally wrote Hitler), it's hard for most characters to relate to that and find it acceptable.
I try to play around with good/evil perspectives, ie "my actions aren't evil, you just justify them as evil because you don't agree with my morals", and stuff like how (again, going back to Hitler but it's a good example) the common soldier of Nazi Germany didn't really think they were evil, or even knew what Hitler's plans were, they were just fighting for their country. I think the only way I could get "they have a point" out of someone is if the villain brought up the misdeeds or negative outcomes on the societies that the other races have had, like "those [race] have done nothing but wage war on their neighbors for the past three generations, they deserve to be eliminated for the greater good of the other kingdoms".
>>49780203
Well, I didn't mean to write a character similar to Hitler, but you do have your point. The idea I had going was that he would rise to the rank of something like a royal advisor to a powerful king, and he would slowly persuade said king to wage war against another kingdom due to that king sharing a similar distaste for lesser races. So to the rest of the world, the king is the bad guy making these immoral decisions, but he's really the one feeding fuel to the fire. And either once he's been figured out or the king is no longer useful in his plans, he goes from minor villain that's a loyal advisor to a king to the major villain that had everyone fooled. And of course, he's got his own group of people that are loyal to him and not to the king, people that could help him seize power or remain in power.

>>49749174
Just ask any Russian.

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>>49749391
A good example, all japery aside. The U.S. is a perfect study in how a country can be super evil, but its average citizen can be a pretty okay person who might not even think of their country as the villain. Meanwhile, their leadership is sterilizing minorities they don't like and knocking over democratically elected governments in favor of ruthless dictators who will play ball with their business interests.

You could do a great satire of the U.S. in a setting, I'll bet. Wouldn't take much. Just replace Hillary and Trump with Jubilex and Demogorgon. Then have the average peasant on the street insist your fantasy nation is the "good guy" because they have open elections and get to choose whichever of those two candidates they please.

>>49767233
Over here people tend to regard America as a nation with too much power and not enough brain cells, and an alarming obsession with invading third-world countries and fighting proxy wars.

Nobody harbours any real dislike of individual Americans unless they do something retarded to earn it though, but since we're exposed to so much retardation and insanity coming from there on the regular an American is generally expected to be retarded.

>t.Bong

>>49749174
>insane is different from elemental
The joker isn't a person. The joker is a force of nature. Chaos incarnate.

>>49749391
I'm not sure how true that is. Greece would definitely say turkey

>>49749174
>talking shit about "lust for power"
Lecoque was a great villain because he was literally just a secretary who wanted his boss' job.

>>49762794
Kenya doesn't like Somalia because they keep raiding/terroristing them.