EDH/Commander General

WAIT FOR THE DRUM ROLL

Is there a commander that promotes a suicide archetype? I want to try a deck where I'm slowly killing myself, but killing my opponents faster.

Nth for sol ring as my commander
Alternatively unban roflos

>>49725543
mogis, run a lot of burn spells, the thing from kamigawa that pings for two whenever someone plays a land, sulphuric vortex, and every single damage doubling enchantment

>>49725543
Oloro. No seriously. Jam all the best black card draw. You will eat your life faster than Oloro can give it back but not faster than you can take over the table.

>>49725543
I like grixis marchesa. You need to keep your life total low to trigger dethrone.

Honestly though any general with black and running Hatred is pretty sick

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How fun is pic related with weird mill things like Consuming Aberration or Szadek?

Ayy bbs. R8 this thick deck
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/jizzela-blade-of-the-shekelnight/

>>49725543
I like heartless hidetsugu, but mono red is kinda bad.

I asked this last thread, but how many token producers should I run in a deck to justify using things like Parallel Lives and Primal Vigor? I'm brewing up a Mazirek list that has around 15 token producers, but I'm not sure if that's enough or if my enchantments will be useless more often than I'd like.

>>49725759
If you run in a spell slinger meta, you don't really need to do anything to get him to go off, maybe run mesmeric orb or something (and make sure you have an oldrazi in your deck).

If you are in a creature heavy meta where people run only 6-7 good sorceries or instants then no amount of mill will really help you, and you will probably wish you were running Lazav.

Shit, just realized that would be a really fucking fun deck, to have a UB deck with an interchangeable wrexial/lazav general based on the decks people were playing, since you would pretty much build it the same way.

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we don't cover this topic nearly enough, /edhg/.

anti-degeneracy cards go. Post some cards that deliver chemo to games where players are trying to establish locks, take extra turns, or otherwise metastasize.

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>>49725931

I think I'm going to work on int for a bit. And I'll include this guy

>>49725759
I like that kind of deck.

I mess around with Lazav and some different things like Duskmantle Guildmage + Mindcrank, reanimator stuff, Mesmeric Orb

>>49725803
Mono-red is fun as fuck but I already have 4 decks with red

>>49725889
I run mazirek and it depends on entirely too many different factors. In general, 15 token producers is about 1/4th your nonland card base, so it's probably worth it to run those cards. But, that being said, you can run a whole suite of tutors and powerful card draw, so you might be able to get away with less. Generally edicts are better than sacing tokens to pump Mazirek, but there are a few combos you can run that win the game, so a giant swathe of dedicated tokens might not be worth as much as quality tutors, reanimator, or removal.

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>>49725543
Make it "political". You have access to Manabarbs, Citadel of Pain, along with the other dick BR cards. Exquisite Blood just in case you die quicker, Sanguine for the combo. You'll definitely have a big target on your back. I guarantee that.

what are some good commanders (besides Gahiji) for subtle politics, making me not seem like a threat until it's too late?

>>49726095
I love kaervek. He's won my rakdos deck games before.

Otherwise he just gets removed instantly with as cheap removal as possible.

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What are some good mountains to compliment this island? It's for a Keranos deck.

>>49726087
I think I'll go for a bit more general build. Most of the token-makers I have are Eldrazi that are 2-in-1's, so I can go infinite with Ashnod's+Deathmantle, with exceptions like Endrek Sahr and Mycoloth.

Besides, Pox control sounds fun.

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>>49726177
problems with removal, you say? Well I know someone who may be able to help.

>>49726252
Damn, that's a good island for keranos.

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>>49726252

>>49725962
Stranglehold.

>>49725962

Fracturing gust

>>49726613
Thanks, mang. this is dope.

>>49725962
Scooze

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Post that tasty "fuck blue" shit

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>>49727252
the classic

So, suggestions wanted: I'm building a Jund deck that I already have a Commander picked for; the Commander isn't important because it won't synergize with whatever I build anyway. It's just something I picked for personal preference.

Given that the Commander is basically there for colors and theme only, what strategy should I go with for Jund? I'd like to avoid token-spam strategies because I already have two token-heavy decks and I don't want too much overlap.

>>49726491
>I am a "Spike Tuner"
That's a real shame.

>>49727252
>>49727278
>not just straight running Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast

I run them if I have the extra slots. Not even mad if I'm not playing against blue.

>>49727322

Just general midrange goodstuff

Lots of removal, a good curve of efficient creatures, recursion for your creatures and spells, a few wincons

>>49727468
So in other words

I should

jund em out?

Why the fuck did Leovold jump up to $23?

>>49727496
He's the only legal Tiny Leader for Sultai

>>49727511
>tiny leaders

nice meme

>>49727375
I run both of those. I also run Burnout, Boil and Boiling Seas

There is a LOT of blue in my group, and I am the only one playing red

>>49727468
I think I can dig that. I was toying with the idea of building an Esper deck that was mostly just a ton of wraths, a decent suite of spot removal and counters, and just use it to police the table until I could stick a threat, but then I decided to build a goofy stupid-ass theme deck instead.

So I guess I can do Jund Midrange/control with all the black and red boardwipes I can manage, plus things like Go for the Throat and Terminate, and use green for recursion, ramp, and dudes. I'll hash something out along those lines, thanks.

>>49727496
Because he's a limited print mythic and the most powerful commander in it's colours.

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Thoughts on this lil deck of mine?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-02-16-marchesa-the-black-rose-edh/

>>49727781
Conspiracy isn't limited print afaik.

>>49727880
Yeah, you can still get boxes of Conspiracy 1 at a reasonable price. And Conspiracy 2 also had those 3-pack blisters at Target and shit, so that's another huge supply.

>>49727880
Oh, I must have understood wrong. I just assumed it was, since pretty much no one bought the first one solely because it was more expensive than normal boosters and it was focused on draft.

>>49727781
>conspiracy
>Limited print

wut

>>49728181
> solely because it was more expensive than normal boosters
What? Conspiracy 1 had an MSRP of 3.99 a pack, just like normal ones. The only over-MSRP packs Magic has ever put out were the Masters sets (MM1, MM2, EMA) and the all-foil Alara block special packs that were like 9 bucks each. Conspiracy 1 and 2 both cost 4 bucks a pack. If your shop was charging more, they're the assholes.

>>49726118
Hungry Hungy Hippo.

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>game finally ends after an hour and a half
>two of the other players are lamenting the garbage that was clogging their hands
>I'm about to shove my hand back into my deck
>"What was in your hand, Anon?"
>uhhhhhhh
>quickly shove hand into deck
>"Nothing significant. Just some chaff."
>mfw they almost found out I threw that game
They can never learn my secret.

>>49728248
>and the all-foil Alara block special packs that were like 9 bucks each
I could've sworn the MSRP on those was $12 or $13.
Years ago, our Wal-Mart was getting rid of them and charged about $6 per pack.
I have almost a dozen Godtrackers of Jund.
Totally worth it.

>>49728272
What was in your hand? Why did you throw the game? I have many questions

>>49728181
Conspiracy sets were regular MSRP m8

>>49728272
Sometimes I let other people win cuz I don't want people to think my decks are too good and ban them from our group

>>49728319
Insurrection and a couple counters to protect it.
On the whole, I significantly outclass the people I play with. I've been playing longer than them and so I have quite a few more fancy toys than them. That's not to say they never beat me, sometimes it's just not in the cards, but I usually play suboptimally and sometimes outright throw games just to keep myself from being that guy who they always have to gang up on.
I also wasn't in the mood for butthurt from one of the players. I know that when I drop Insurrection he's going to whine about how busted it is. I mean, he's almost right, but I still don't want to hear about it from him.

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>>49727542
I'm proud of you anon.

>>49727322
Now I'm just curious who your general is. Even if it's not important I think jund as a place and a color combination is cool so I want to know.

>>49728414
I should probably start doing this. I tend to have explosive starts, but slow down and end up getting hated out of the game before everyone else has a chance to level out.

>>49725543
Modis is Suicide Control, Lyzolda is Suicide Aggro.

Mogis is really fucking good is built well, but it's also really fucking cruel and will make you the archenemy.

>>49728611

Mogis is useless no matter how you build it, if your Mogis deck is good it's good in spite of Mogis and could use any commander and be at least as good.

>>49727844

I wouldn't run arcbound or some of the other subpar creatures there that you only included because they can get a +1/+1 counter.

I would run more and better citp creatures though. Stuff like shriekmaw, rune scarred demon, sower of temptations.

I have a pretty tuned Marchesa list that I might put up sometime soon, i'll link it in the thread if I do.

VOLTRON PLAYERS:

How much Equipment do you guys run, give or take?

>>49728663

In an equipment deck 5-10 pieces

In my aura voltron deck I have 0 equipment

>>49728689
So 17 is too much?

>>49728704
There's probably a few you could cut yeah. Do you have a list.

>>49727542
godspeed my redbro

>>49728414
you fucked up. Don't be a scrub enabler. You should be proud you always turn into the archenemy

>>49728704

Equipment are pretty mana intensive so you dont want to get completely flooded with like 5 in hand, 17 could probably be cut down a bit, however I was just saying I personally run 5-10, more than 10 isn't necessarily a huge problem if it works for you

>>49727844
>>49728656
>http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/10-10-16-marchesa-the-black-rose/
Here you go

>>49728663

My Aurelia deck runs Sword of Feast and Famine, Hero's Blade (I underrated that card HARD), Sunforger, Lightning Greaves, Sword of the Animist, and Skullclamp. Granted, the deck can go wide as well as tall and isn't a dedicated Voltron deck -just the closest thing I have to it. The last two are more for utility than damage.

what's the most fun voltron commander?

>>49729362
Rafiq
Sigarda
Narset

>>49729362
Bruna

>>49728882
I could cut stuff out to add some general protection like Defense Grid. The nice thisng about having a high Equipment count is getting huge mana off of Metalworker

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Building Witch Maw Exalted so I have access to all the colors with Exalted. Gonna wait and see how good the WUBG commanders are while using Witch Maw as a temporary measure. I don't want to build around it the Nephilim too much in case people bitch and I need to switch to the official commander or a Reaper King.

Any advice for making Exalted work in EDH? I'm thinking extra turns and some pillowfort stuff should put me in a good spot.

>>49729362
Godo

>>49729362
Raksha Golden Cub.

>>49729451
Rafiq + tutors m8

>>49729451
Aw man, a WUBG Exalted general would be pretty neat

>>49729495
Rafiqs in no matter what and tutors are the name of the game my friend. But I'm more excited about doing dumb shit like mirrorweaving sublime archangel.

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Anyone here play ZURGO?

How well does it usually work out for you?

>>49728423
>>49728817
Thanks fellas. Being the sole red player actually lets me fly under the radar for a few turns, until I blow someone out and people get wary

Red is best color forever

>>49729638
>before turn 5
>tutor assault suit
>turn 5
>zurgo
>turn 6
>assault suit equip
>watch the world burn

>>49729638
Brother! It's my strongest deck, I once killed an entire table with Chandra's ignition+tainted strike.

>>49729785
Ooh that's tasty. I enjoy Chandra's Ignition on anything with a Basilisk Collar equipped. BOY did everyone get mad when I did that the first time.

>>49727252

I'm making Fuck Blue with either Jaya or Radha. Leaning towards Radha because she has surprise factor, and gives me access to Tsunami, Autumn's Veil, some uncounterable things, and green is just a nice color to have when most of your deck is just bitter hatred towards blue.

It will be my main deck. Plan is to visit local groups at stores, abd just shit on blue players till no one wants to play with me.

>>49728627
There is no other good commander for BR empty boards.dck.
Mogis, God of Turtling.

>>49729890
Don't forget Savage Summoning!

>>49729909

There is no good commander for BR empty boards.dck.

Fixed that for you

>>49728663
>SoFaI
>SoLaS
>SoFaF
>Umezawa's Jitte
>Batterskull
>Sword of Vengeance
>Runechanter's Pike
>Lightning Greaves
>Darksteel Plate
>Skullclamp

That, assuming you run white, over 20 instant and sorcery cards and creatures or token generators that can abuse Skullclamp.

>>49729638
People concede as soon as they see Wordbreaker hit the table. It seldom gets interfered with because my Zurgo list is pretty much discard and removal.dck

>>49725759
I have this as a commander... though for me I call it Cthulhu the Risen Deep. Basically I play him as a voltron commander, choosing cards for flava-lav over staples.

>>49729972
I think I found the fag that plays white weenie.

Worse. It's the "if you don't play fully tuned t1 decks, you shouldn't play EDH" anon

>>49730005

>no swift foot boots

>>49730089
Wordbreaker?

>>49730224
Zurgo hates spelling.

>>49730249

ZURGO SMASH! ZURGO HAS NOT TIME FOR PROPER SYNTAX AND GRAMMAR!

>>49730281

>Zurgo is a tough guy meme
>has less than 1/3 the toughness of qt elf emmara tandris

What a fraud

>>49730366
>Caring about Tandris's dangerously huge ass

>>49730366
well he is indestructible sometimes, that's pretty tough

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>you will never own a non-Chinaman Mishra's Workshop

>>49730366
>Zurgo's abilities are all outclassed by Narset
How does it feel Mardufags?

>>49730507
Just buy one lol

>>49730557
Hey it happens. I hope you guys are having fun with Narset though. She looks cool and her abilities are neat. Personally I like Zurgo more but I respect your choice in commander and playstyle. Want to bond over how cool Sunforger is?

>>49730578
I'm not willing to drop a fucking grand on a 20 year old piece of cardboard

>>49730224
No sick rhymes in my turf.

>>49730589
Y-You're not supposed to be nice to me
I don't know how to FEEL

>>49730604
then what is there to be upset about?

>>49730589
Why can't Sunforger be my Commander?

>>49730645
The fact that a 20 year old piece of cardboard costs a grand

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>>49730640
I'm nice to everybody.
Except 5c hermit combo players.

>>49730653
I've never seen one in person, let alone anyone actually play one.

If you're not willing the drop the cash why waste energy moping about it?

>>49730700

whats 5c hermit combo?

>>49730710
Because I like to bitch and moan

>>49730782

Use hermit Druid to mill your whole library then dread return sac'ing narcomoeba and like blood ghast and prized amalagam, any 3 creatures that work that way, returning necrotic ooze to the battlefield and winning the game

It's probably the fastest consistent combo deck strategy, slightly slower than a godhand storm deck but more consistent, it runs 5 color because that means you have all the tutors you can run as well as all the cantrips to make it as consistent as possible

>>49730710
You don't UNDERSTAND
We can't be the BEST now
It hurts my tism

>>49730387
She's also got quite a big rack which I assume is where he power comes from. And people said she was anti flavorful. I wish Emmara Tandris was my mom and not Jace's.

>>49730782
The surest way to identify a faggot, outside of a Narset deck

>>49730557
I like not being in the ban watchlist.

>>49730989
citation needed

>>49730989
Speaking of bans, when is/was the update for KLD?

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Do you think Wizards would ever do a circus themed set? I have personally never been a fan of the circus, but I have a friend whos nuts for the stuff, so I know there must be a market for it.

>>49728414
You're a good man anon. I hope it dosn't come back to haunt you some day.

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>>49731328
You're playing with fire, anon. Best to leave this one alone.

>>49731738
Wyald pls go

>>49731738
Hidetsugu.png

>>49728663
Enchantments > equipments, most of the time, anyway.
>>49729362
Fun is Narset.
Annoying (to others) is Thruun.
Good is Atarka, World Render.

>>49731909
>running atarka as anything other than dragons tribal
missing out bruv

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Comment on frog/ frog talk pls.

This was what i took to pick up pods at GP Atlanta.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/frogger-as-of-gp-atl-102016/

I know there are a million but I'd be interested in the best decklists for zombie tribal that you've ever seen. Price/no fun not an issue.

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>>49731917
>winning turn 5 with commander damage
no u missin out bruv
It's not my deck anyway, it's my friend's. I have Narset and Thruun (which I made because I had him lying around, but he's pretty good).

>>49731931
People in a couple threads were helping me with mine.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/ghoulcaller-gisa-zombie-tribal-edh-1/

>>49731931
>Grimgrin
>Every Zombie lord
>Things that make zombie tokens
>card draw
>maybe rooftop storm

I mean, not to be shitty, but it's suuuuper easy to build, pretty much second only to elves. The upside is it's hard to go wrong. I've never seen a zombie tribal deck that wasn't at least decent.

Do you ever get targeted at the table because you're genuinely a decent player. Like you play other formats draft and do well and people know so they target you.
Like targeting you when it is almost objectively wrong so they use all their resources and some other guy wins because of it?

Or have players that misunderstand threats in general?

>>49731931
>>49731975
Honestly I'd be surprised if Gisa and Geralf was not the best zombie tribal commander.

>playing 1v1 regular edh
>both comment on our slow hands
>opponent go turn 1 land
>do the same
>turn 2 play simic growth chamber pass turn
>wasteland his growth growth chamber
>concede


Why are the bounce lands good again?

>>49732129
2 for 1

>>49732129
Was this real life? They aren't really but they're easy to find so they're filler for better lands.

>>49732129
They aren't.

they're just cheap af and it's comfy with Garruk Wildspeaker. But they're really bad

>>49731222
No changes for multiplayer, duel commander is now 20 life.

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>>49727252
>Not running Gruul
>Not running Seedtime
>Or Nature's Wrath, Carpet of Flowers, Choke, Tsunami or anything for that matter

Back to the drawing board, m81.

Also, fuck blue mages. Fuck these shitters.

>>49732129

They're good in limited and decent in cube because they are virtual card advantage

They're atrocious in any format with wasteland or strip mine, but they are cool with amulet of vigor

>>49731328
Circus and carnivals would be perfect for an actual Gothic Horror set along with Street Waith, Patrician's Scorn and all those horror cards from TS block that are clearly too modern-flavored for Innistrad.

Innistrad was supposedly the Gothic Horror set but ended up being the Universal/Hammer Horror set and then got turned into shit-retcons-to-insert-chalky-cunt-waifu-who-was-better-off long-dead-into-the-lore set. We need an actual Victorian/Edwardian Gothic Horror+Weird West+Southern Gothic set so we can have ghost trains, gold greed madness, devil dealings, undead outlaws, towns built upon native graveyards, appalachian horrors, gypsy curses, kuzdu, voodoo, circus freaks and curiosity menageries.

>>49732457
I'm still pissed they didn't put grave scrabbler in SOI or one of the delve cards in Khan's. They keep really missing with future sight cards. It'll probably long time if ever before they do either of these mechanics too.

>>49732063
Yes people assume I'm gonna be an asshole spike because I play Legacy and own expensive cards, even when the commander I'm playing at the moment is Gisa or Freyalise and there's a Narset or Zur at the table.

>>49730984
salt

>>49732129
Any deck that makes heavy use of landfall.

>>49732490
This, they pretty much abandoned them because of muh NWO.
>Arcanum Wings
Aura Swap would be great in Amonkhet flavored as gods changing minds on who they flavor on a whim. This won't happen.
>Aven Mindcensor
Should have been in Bant, will never happen now because he's way too strong for Standard.
>Baru,
We're never returning to Dominaria
>Bitter Ordeal
Will never happen because MaRo said Gravestorm is even more broken than Storm.
>Blade of the Sixth Pride, Blind Phantasm, Fomori Nomad,

>Bonded Fetch
Super safe in either Ravnica or Innistrad, still didn't happen.
>Bound in Silence
Could go anywhere, hasn't happened.
>Bridge from Below
Should have been in Innistrad.
>Centaur Omenreader
Guess they're waiting till we forget about Dominaria and they can make a new snow plane.
>Darksteel Garrison
Mirrodin is ded
>Daybreak Coronet
Could fit anywhere, hasn't been done.
>Death Rattle
Should have been in Tarkir, even fits the flavor with zombie snakes and crocs.
>Deepcavern Imp
Doubt we're ever seeing echo again.
>Dryad Arbor
Could have been in Bant, could have been in Theros, they just don't want to do it.
>Edge of Autumn
Guess Cycling isn't impossible, let's see them miss it anyway.
>Emblem of the Warmind
Should have been in RTR
>Fleshwrither
Could see it happen but am not optimistic.
>Flowstone Embrace
We're never seeing Rath again
>Frenzy Sliver
Never gonna happen, NuSlivers only affect your own.
>Ghostfire
Not in Fate Reforged, not in BFZ, not happening now that bolts are too strong for Standard.
>Goldmeadow Lookout
Should have been in Lorwyn
>Grave Scrabbler
It not being in SOI denotes how much they don't care, they want us to forget everything that was designed before NWO unless it's one of MaRo's pet cards he doesn't want reprinted freely but keeps bragging about like FoW
>Grinning Ignus
Should have been in Scars block.

>>49733197

>Should have been in Bant, will never happen now because he's way too strong for Standard.

aven mindcensor is only playable in standard formats with fetchlands

>>49733197
Afaik it has nothing to do with NWO. In grave scrabbler instance though it was definitely thy don't really care thing. Pretty sure they said they didn't even think about him or something like that. And the delve spells it was mostly just because they couldn't fit them or something, but imo they should make it a point to do so.

>>49733309
>>49733197

honestly grave scrabbler seems like he just majorly outclasses a lot of what was going on in SOI, im not surprised they didnt reprint him with all the discard outlets in SOI and EMN

>>49733197
>Grove of the Burnwillows
Pricetag means it's never gonna happen it's one of the cards they threat as an investment account rather than a game piece.
>Henchfiend of Ukor
Echo again
>Homing Sliver
Slivers don't work like this anymore.
>Horizon Canopy
Another investment card
>Imperial Mask
"Teammates" not likely to happen in a Standard-legal set.
>Imperiosaur
Muraganda when? never ;-;
>Korlash
Dominaria never.
>Linessa
Dominaria, again.
>Logic Knot
Should have been in Tarkir
>Lucent Liminid
Should have been in Theros
>Lumithread Field
Mirrodin is ded
>Lymph Sliver
Slivers, again.
>Mass of Ghouls,
...Should have been in ISD, pride in SOM, Phantasm in ISD, Fomor in Immerstrum when we finally get there, but no, the only one who goes anywhere is the faggoty centaur in Theros.
>Mesmeric Sliver
Slivers...
>Mistmeadow Skulk
Should have been in Shadowmoor
>Muraganda Petroglyphs
Muraganda never
>Nacatl War Pride
Should have been in Alara
>Narcomoeba
Possible, maybe.
>Nibus Maze
Should have been in Theros
>Nix
Who knows.
>Oriss
Dominaria never.
>Patrician's Scorn
Could have been in Innistrad but it's too victorian and Innistrad is still barely past the renaissance.
>Phosphorescent Feast
Maybe when we go to the "fairy tales plane" MaRo mentions from time to time.
>Quagnoth
Shroud is ded, Split Second is too strong for Standard.
>Ramosian Revivalist
Dominaria never
>River of Tears
Is plausible.
>Sacromite Myr
Kaladesh does colored artifacts, there's no reason why Phyrexia couldn't.
>Second Wind
Is super safe and could go anywhere.
>Seht's Tiger
Should be in Amonkhet
>Shah of Naar Isle
Echo.
>Shapeshifter's Marrow
Could be anywhere
>Skizzik Surger
Echo
>Snake Cult Initiation
Don't think they'll do Poisonous again now that Infect was considered a success
>Spellweaver Volute
Could be anywhere
>Spellwild Ouphe
Guess it could be in Phyrexia
>Spin into Myth
Flavor sounds Kamigawa and we know Kamigawa never, but it could be reworked to Amonkhet

>>49733456
Does the Time spiral shit need to have literal reprints for them to count on your shitty list?

>>49733456
>Sporoloth Ancient
Could be anywhere.
>Steamflogger Boss
lol
>Storm Entity
Could be anywhere
>Street Wraith
Same as Patrician's Scorn
>Tarmogoyf
Dominaria never
>Tarox
Dominaria never
>Thornweald Archer
Should have been in Lorwyn
>Thunderblade Charge
Could have been in SOM
>Tombstalker
Could have been in Tarkir
>Vedalken Aethermage
Could be anywhere.
>Virulent Sliver
Sliver and Poisonous, never happening.
>Whetweel
Sould have been in Tarkir instead of that other mill artifact that was.
>Whipspine Drake
Could have been in Fate Reforged or Dragons.
>Witch's Mist
Could be anywhere.
>Yixli Jailer
Should be in Amonkhet, the flavor is neat.
>Zoetic Cavern
Could've been in Tarkir flavored as dragon spirits or something.

Anyway, we really shouldn't expect any of these cards to show up in Standard sets, most aren't even reprinted in supplemental sets despite being perfectly fair or even notably underpowered. They don't want us to remember there was Magic before M10.

>>49733482
All these cards were claimed at the time to be from sets that would be printed in the future.
They obviously didn't think things through, fucking Graven Cairns was meant to be in Ulgothra and ended up in Lorwyn.

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need a fun way to make Aurelia a Soldier.

also, these are my commanders. i hope you can tell what kinds of decks they are.

>>49733456
>>Phosphorescent Feast
>Maybe when we go to the "fairy tales plane" MaRo mentions from time to time.
That one already got reprinted, in Eventide.
>>Second Wind
>is super safe and could go anywhere
Except for the general dearth of other enchantments that tap themselves, you mean.
NWO aside, Spellweaver Volute is fucking insanely weird and you know it.
>Storm Entity
>implying storm wasn't a mistake
>Vedalken Aethermage could be anywhere
Anywhere with wizards tribal, slivers tribal, and vedalken as a race you mean.

>>49733197
If the card isn't common, NWO has literally nothing to do with it not being reprinted.

>>49733669
>need a fun way to make Aurelia a Soldier.
Blades/Shields of Velis Vel
Runed Stalactite
And if you're going wide you should probably have Mirror Entity in there already.

I'm curious to know, why do you want to do this? For flavor reasons or just for anthems that focus on soldiers specifically?

>>49729638
Played Zurgo Boardwipe superfriends for a long while, then switched to Queen Bitch.
I still use him in the main board as tribute to our favorite angry as fuck orc

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Post the funniest art

>>49733706
Storm Entity doesn't have Storm. It's a stupid semi-french vanilla creature that doesn't even have evasion.
>>49733760
Shut up MaRo, only retards don't understand that commons set the power level of a block and therefore NWO impedes the printing of stronger cards at all rarities by lowering the power of commons.
Smuggler's Copter wouldn't be the strongest card in Standard right now if Doom Blade was around, but they want to sell Mythics and Rares, not commons and a good gameplay experience.

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>>49725543
Here you go

Is Flametongue Kavu playable?

>>49734174
Depends on your meta, but in general no.
Are you in mono red?

>>49733456
Mistmeadow Skulk was printed in Shadowmoore. Still, that only puts us at like 4 Future Sighted cards actually printed in subsequent sets. Fuck Maro and his lying jew mouth.

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>>49733970
Basically anything by Foglio. RiP in peace, you were too good for this game.

>>49734192
No, RW, it's just, there's two fucking animars in my meta and every single time I die with Path and Swords in hand.

Why is Animar allowed, fuck

>>49734112
Fuck yes. I rocked this guy for a good few years and can say that this is one of the funnest mono-white decks.
>Tarnished Citadel, Nomad Stadium, Grand Coliseum, City of Brass, and Ancient Tomb all make soldiers
>Soul Sisters to mitigate or gain more life
>Soldier tribal buffs
>Angel's Trumpet
>Jade Monolith

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>>49734210
I want to find an excuse to use this

>>49734255
jitte is your friend

>>49734255
tragic arrogance in general is good against Animar fyi

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>>49734255

>>49734330
or just a fucking lightning bolt/earthquake

>>49726323
A do nothing commander. Perfect!

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How does my squad look /tg/?

>>49733828
Soldier tribal. want her to benefit from some of my soldier only cards.

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for eye of the storm, are the copies of instant and sorceries CAST or are they just copies that go on the stack?

>>49734604
The copies are not cast/played.

>>49734604

read eye of the storm, and then read melek's ability, then try to answer your question for yourself.

>>49734613

read the card at least if youre gonna be answering rules questions

>>49734604

"Play" and "Cast" mean the exact same thing in the rules for non-land cards.

If the copies were cast then Eye of the Storm would trigger infinitely off of itself.

>>49734613
>>49734637

Youre both incorrect

the copies ARE cast, the reason eye of the storm does not trigger infinitely off itself is because the trigger says whenever a player plays (casts) an instant or sorcery CARD, whereas while resolving eye of the storm, they are casting instant or sorcery COPIES

>>49734637
They are cast, but eye triggers when an instant or sorcery *card* is cast, so it doesn't trigger on the copies.

Bottom line, don't ask random anons for rules advise, you'll get 5 different rulings and never know which one is right. Just google it.

>>49734651
yours makes the most sense to me but i get where
>>49734637
>>49734627
are coming from

>>49734681

im both >>49734651

and >>49734627

melek's ability is worded differently, he puts copies directly onto the stack. eye of the storm on the other hand, exiles cards, then copies the cards exiled, then you CAST the copies

its no coincidence that eye of the storm synergizes with the storm mechanic

anyway you can just go on gatherer, the very first ruling explains the key issue here that other anons didnt get

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Gonna try out Cathartic Reunion until someone counters it and I replace it with some Wheel I can't afford

>>49734717
>someone counters it
Then you have every right to bitch at the blue player for not saving the counter for the person tapping for Genesis Wave

>>49734727
Blue players are literally triggered by the idea of someone other than them drawing cards. I've seen people throw Paths to Mentor of the Meek when there's a Rafiq on the board.

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>Daretti
>Discard Spine and an extra land
>Next turn play Ichor Wellspring, sac it with Daretti and get back Spine

Okay I'm not gonna lie that's pretty fucking sweet.

>>49734807

yeah daretti is a value machine

>>49734807
spine of ish sah and phyrexia is my favourite jank ass combo.

ish sah is just a fun card, wish i had a priest of yawgmoth to up the ante

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>>49725543

>>49725759
Its a very fun deck if your meta is balanced or spell heavy. Run some counter spells and Cipher spells and its really strong.

>>49726006
nice tech, never seen this one before.

>>49726118
Gwafa Hazid

>>49727322

ramp into discard/LD into threats into Lavalanche and exsanguinate.

>>49733669
>make zombie tokens
>>card draw

Cool to see Szadek. I'd play with you.

>>49729638
Bad, all my friends started to play orcish captains in their decks...

>>49734516

Stoutarm, Nin, and Wort are pretty cool.

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Sigarda and Nin are GF's decks.

Working on Savra now, but I can't decide whether to play her, Varolz, or Jarad.

>>49734255
Chaos warp if the best I can suggest.

>>49734746
This is so true. There's a guy at my shop who's literally Blue: the Player and he misplays his counters/bounce so frequently I used to keep a top ten misplay list (most of which resulted in me Kikki comboing).

>>49735087
I wouldn't throw a Chaos Warp to an Animar, chances are he'll get some giant dumb shit that's equally as bad as Animar was. Yeah, you can answer that, too, but you just 2-for-1 yourself.

Really, the best solutions are wraths. A lot of them.

>>49732081
there aren't enough value-etb zombies to make gisa and geralf worth it over grimgrin
he actually does things with your horde of fodder

>>49735145

So what's the point of grimgrin? Some kind of aura or equipment that taps him for something?

>>49735227
card/board advantage by trading expendable zombie tokens for actual creatures
or you could just combo off, but we're talking about zombie tribal here

>>49725962
Stranglehold, Linvala, Supression Field, Torpor Orb, Graffdigger's Cage, Eidolons, Aura Shards, Hall of Gemstone, Bedlam, Leyline of Singularity, Peacekeeper etc etc

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>>49725962
I want to find some way to use this.

>>49735393
I run it in Mayael, but you gotta be careful when you play it. I did it once and the Phenax player won before the turn came back to me.

>>49732457
Damn when you say it like that I actually want it.

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>>49725489
Favorite General for now. Probably will be for quite a while.

>>49735393
rhys the redeemed.

>>49734210
>>49734273
Exquisite taste

>>49735393
Use creatures with inspire and things that let all your creatures tap for mana or something.

Like cryptolic rite or whatever it was called.

>>49734273
Must-include in Boggles versus Angels Duel decks.

>>49736049
ha

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>>49734210
>>49734273
Best art
>that shit-eating grin on the guy dodging the spell

>>49734516
I'm curious Anon, why the change from Jeleva to Gonti? I'm trying to incorporate Gonti into my own Jeleva list but the deck does not have any etb trigger synergy and there aren't any spells I want to cut for a creature.

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>>49732457

Shadows over Innistrad block
fuck you
it was like a mini Bloodborne in your hand
suck my dick
fuck you

>>49736631
Bloodborne was shit.

Do any of you guys purposely play lesser quality generals for the purpose of making the table view you as less of a threat while you play out?

I have a friend that plays Arjun instead of Niv Mizzet entirely because people view him as a more janky and less efficient general and don't see the "He's going to win" aspect as easily, thus meaning he can surprise the table easier and win.

Anyone do something involving perception fucking like that?

>>49736049
That's a sick alter.

>>49736785
Sorta, a lot of the times in a big multiplayer ill just kinds not do anything until I have a mass of artifacts on the battle and in my hand enough to cast Rafiq equip and protect him to bash in to kill in one shot

>>49736785
Yup, I do that.

I run Mazirek instead of Meren because he always draws less heat, and is arguably a better commander. When you see someone take out a Mazirek deck, you know they've brewed something interesting themselves. When someone takes out the same Meren deck as 10 other chucklefucks at your flgs, you're probably going to hate on them pretty quick. To be honest, my deck is still a Meren deck, I just tutor her up instead of casting her from the command zone, and have more synergy with edicts. I also ran Ayli instead of Old Teysa, because after a few test runs with Old Teysa as my commander, I found people hated on me a little too hard for my liking, so I switched to something a little bit more low-key.

But that being said, I run Brago, Memnarch, Uril, and Maelstrom, so I'm not too concerned with being the archenemy, I just like having different decks tuned for different groups. For example, I turned Brago from flicker artifact stacks and cantrips into board wipes and indestructible things, then spec'd Memnarch into colourless ramp, artifact goodstuff, and cantrips so that I would have two very different decks that used to be one single deck.

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>>49736785
I run Rashmi instead of Narset for turbo-turns.

http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rashmi-turbo-turns/

>>49733633
>that would be printed in the future.
That could be printed, anon.

>>49734255
Gift a Night of Soul's Betrayal to every black mage in your vicinity.

>>49736785
I am currently building Jori En, Ruin Diver as a new upgrade for my Talrand deck, in my first few test games people don't see the threat until your mass producing 6 tokens per counter spell and having Purphoros blast the table.

The value generals are always more interesting to me then the "___ is my win condition " generals since you don't REALLY know what angle they are going to attack from. Nothing is more boring then having the opponent just holding a counter for your commander all game.

>>49736785
You're friends are retarded.
You should be able to tell how a deck works by just playing against it.
If you can't tell that a deck is good by it being good, then it's no wonder you keep losing to it.

>>49736631
SOI wasn't Bloodborne at all. It was MUH NAHIRIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII!!!!!! the set.
Emrakul is not eldritch, it's fucking Galactus, and Galactus is shit without the Silver Surver which Nahiri was not.

There is no buildup, there is no interesting lore, there is no scheming factions at the edge of the board covered up by the world being too dangerous in itself to waste time investigating who pulled the strings and got us into this madness, there is no bait and switch of support and dread with side-characters, there is not a handfull of intriguing and challenging legendary creatures to fight against. Jace is no good hunter.

You're a superficial little shit and the reason planes are theme parks rather than settings nowadays.

>>49736785
I helm Nissa instead of Azusa, Titania or any of the better known generals. Everyone knows her because of Standard, but no one can predict what the deck does and when they find out it's either too late or I'm using an alternate win con. I fly under the radar more often than not even when ramping 2 lands and drawing 3 cards each turn. And the best about it is I consistently win about 60% of 4 man pods without them even noticing why.

>>49736975
This

Bloodborne was so much more then werewolves and then mutant horrors, the game. Bloodborne had so much going on that STILL people disagree on exactly who the real villians were and where the blame falls.

Eldritch moon's plot was stupid as fuck and actually led to bigger stupidity then the "fucking fireball the Eldrazi" ending of OGW.

It involved Nahiri going basically 180 on everything her character stood for previously "cause' I'm MAD" and led to the stupidest ending, with the Gatewatch literally losing, only to have Emrakul herself, for NO goddam reason, sealing herself in the moon, after just escaping a prison a mere year or so ago, leaving some sort of "the stars aren't right" mojo that completely deflated the contribution of EVERY character and raised far too many questions about the Eldrazi then needed. Killing Emrakul would have actually been better then that shit.

Bloodborne involved hunting the shit out of monsters and slowly learning the horrifying truths as the game drove you deeper and deeper into a lovecraftian nightmare with layer upon layer of intense secrecy, manipulation, corruption, and conspiracy, all the time unaware that you are growing stronger from the insight of all the horrors you have experienced.

Bloodborne was a game of questions at its core.
The fuck was baby Mergo?
What DID the scholars of Mences do to bring about the Scourge of the Beast?
What truly happened to the Ptumerians
Why did the Moon Presence want the hunters to kill the child great one?
Hell the very timeline of the setting itself was a mystery in terms of how long the various events took.

NewIstrad was a very plain attempt to hijack the hype for Bloodborne, but had nothing that made Bloodborne fascinating, because they explained goddamn everything, there are no real questions. The only questions are plot holes and character fuck ups.

The card art is the closest we get when we reach Eldritch moon, but the story, like usual, fell flat on its face.

are any other the legendaries from kaladesh worth playing as your commander?

Is playing EDH online worth it? I am tired of all the autists at my LGS.

>>49737212
Rashmi and Gonti are dece.

>>49732457
So Deadlands/The Sixth Gun the set? Weird west is my favorite setting.

>>49737246
Online is how I play all my EDH.
Cockatrice lets me playtest cards I'd normally never be able to afford, and try out jank I don't wanna drop money on or deconstruct a deck for.

MtGO is better for the more traditional experience, even if the interface is a bit janky and outdated.

>>49737212
Rashmi is ace for a cool spellslinger Simic deck.

Gonti is another gimmick black commander to make the same mono black shell as always, if only he was dimir colors he would be far more interesting as blue would have given him a lot of cheeky tools and more stealing options.

Depala might be the best Boros general since Aurelia as she gives a type of consistent card draw in RW, but she will only be good if the next set gives more solid dwarves and vehicles to deal with. I'm most interested in her with next set coming up for sure, but she is unplayable right now.

Rest are better in the 99

>>49737301
Add some Vampire Hunter D and we're golden.

>>49737246
No. Absolutely not. Do not play online if you want to have fun.

Every single person is this guy:
>>49737356

They don't have money and just want to play with every single card possible. They're prone to ragequiting, acting like jackasses, running netdecked bullshit, and blowing up the board with chaos nonsense when they lose. In person you can at least slap them.

>>49737202
Trapping her in the moon is a lot better then killing her, especially as it plays up the Eldritch Horror theme

>Controls Tamiyo to have her use the forbidden scroll, and somehow changes it so it doesn't kill the whole Plane shows her influence a lot more then any other story
>Reaffirms that killing the Eldrazi is a major problem and not just stuff Ugin said
>Keeps at least one of the Eldrazi able to return in Backlog
>Tried to avoid the problems of the ending of the last block.

And there was a reason, Emrakul realized the plane didn't need her. You people will never be satisfied. While Nahiri was badly done, the ending of Eldritch Moon tried to do right what BFZ/OGW did wrong.

>>49737202
I honestly can't believe you typed up this whole post when the core premise is probably false. Development happens 2 years in advance. SOI block was finished two years ago, well before Bloodborne. It wasn't to hijack shit all. It really is just a huge coincidence for the similar premise. Hell, they SAID they planned Emrakul on Innistrad as far back as the ending of the first Innistrad. But idk if I 100% buy that.

>>49737372
On cockatrice your statement is a bit more true, but not on mtgo where you still have to pay tix for cards.

Also
>sweeping generalizations

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>>49737372
>Physically attacking someone over a game of magic
Calm down boyo

>>49737387
Tamiyo wasnt controlled to use the scroll iirc. She was using it as her last resort. Emrakul just changed it as it was being opened.

>>49737202
>>49736975
i was making a generalization of the plane

planeswalker wankery is why i dont care about the lore. i wanted lovecraft in my classic horror, instead i got JACENAHIRISORINLILIANA. i wanna SEE ludavic dammit.

fuck jace hes no hunter. hes a personification of everything i hate about mtg

>>49737434
>Innistrad as far back as the ending of the first Innistrad
Maybe they didn't planned it this far back, but people were already talking about shadow over innistrad with eldrazi in it since original innistrad.

>>49737437
>implying that isn't the only proper response after someone Armageddon's/Decree of Annihilation's then scoops
Last time this happened, people were so mad everyone just picked up their cards and went home. Jhoria's man...

>>49737436
>paying real money for virtual cardboard
Eh, I don't think so. If I was able to get the cards I have in real life in game, I'd be more interested. But, I know I can't.

>>49737463
In the story, it said she didn't know what was happening, brought up the scroll under Emrakul's control, and somehow it didn't kill everyone. Keep in mind she vowed not to open the thing either.

>>49737488
And MaRo said bruna and gisela were planned to get melded since OG innistrad. Or he said something similar to it when they revealed brisela.

>>49737488
Yeah, but to be fair people talked about Eldrazi everywhere. They were actually really popular at one point.

>>49737387

>Trapping her in the moon is a lot better then killing her, especially as it plays up the Eldritch Horror theme

You don't understand Eldritch Horror if you think the protagonists should ever "win" against them. BFZ and OotG ended the "eldritch horror" aspect of the eldrazi dead in the water, once you punch Cthullu to death it narratively isn't Cthullu anymore, you missed the point.

>And there was a reason, Emrakul realized the plane didn't need her.
You mean completely changing the motives and nature of a being that has its explanations given WAY back in Rise of the Eldrazi, only at the last minute, is a GOOD THING?

Giving Emrakul a motive, making it care about time, the "right moment", or doing anything else besides eating the plane is completely against everything we know about them. They were studied ages ago by Ugin, they devoured world after world after world until they were put to sleep. Upon waking up they simply continued their endless feast upon Zendikar. Their motives, back when they were more akin to real Eldritch monsters, were completely beyond the comprehension of anyone. They were beyond color magic and the very laws that bound the rest of existence. WHY THE FUCK would only NOW Emrakul give a shit.

Now, after being trapped for endless centuries, then drawn TO the plain IN THE FIRST PLACE. If it wasn't the right time, why only then, when the plane was hers to devour did she decide nah? Why not just ignore Nahiri's summons?

NOW we have shit like Emrakul going "oops, its not time to eat THIS plane, so instead of fucking off to eat another I'm just going to lock myself away again... for no reason"

Its completely stupid shit.

>>49736915
>no sylvan library
why?

>>49737387
>Keeps at least one of the Eldrazi able to return in Backlog
Because BfZ, OotG, SoI and EDM REALLY shows up Wizards is capable of not fucking them up when they show them in the narrative.

>Tried to avoid the problems of the ending of the last block.
By fucking up another plane entirely narratively, ruining the unknowable aspects of one of the more mysterious races in the game, and literally deus ex machine-ing an end to the plot, just to rush off to the next thing? No man, there are FAR more problems with this plot.

Liliana and her whole, hoards of the undead, "last hope" meant fucking nothing, Emrakul wins no matter what and didn't give a shit.

Jace's research was pointless and didn't aid anything.

Sorin and Nahiri's fight basically went no where besides making people hate both of them more.

It basically was a rushed ending that threw all of the plot points of the set into the trash, horrible narrative writing.

>You people will never be satisfied.
When they write like shit? Yeah, we wont be, no shit.

>>49737434
>Implying artistic design, story, and flavor are 100% set in stone and locked 2 years in advanced and wouldn't be re-looked at when a new fad or similar material is produced.

Now this is a stupid argument right here.

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>>49734967

>counterspells

yea

>>49737727
Don't own the card/can't figure out what to cut for it.

That and once people realise what I'm doing, I get hated out fairly quick, so losing a bunch of life to it sucks.

>>49736218
I gave a tiny explanation in the pic but I'll elaborate on it: the problem I had with Jeleva was two-fold; 1) both metas I play in are mostly battlecruiser magic with very little Instant/Sorceries. Theres some spellslinger in the meta but seldom seen; and 2) It actually gave me more freedom to put variance in my deck rather than having a bunch of Instant/Sorceries. It gave me room to put in neat tricks for Gonti to take opponents stuff multiple times with flicker/bounce/reanimate.

What really sold it for me was that with Gonti, the exile cards are still usable even after he's gone, thanks to the "as long as they remain exiled" clause. Jeleva doesn't get that luxary and I sometimes find her dead until I fish for a bounce effect or board wipe.

Oh, and Gonti doesn't keep the exiled cards revealed. That's a huge plus for me.

>>49737747
i just mean that you can stack your rashmi trigger with it every turn, don't hold on to the cards

>>49737800
Not...really?

You can only put cards ontop that were drawn this turn, so it's really just a bad brainstorm that generates some minimal extra value because it sticks around, and some painful card advantage.

The deck already draws enough cards with cantrips, rhystic, and Rashmi triggers.

>>49737842
Dude Sylvan Library is one of the best cards ever printed. The filtering done by a free pseudo-Brainstorm every turn with shuffle effects is insane. And when you need all the cards you take them. Life is a resource, especially in EDH.

>>49736951
You have a list? I'm interested.

>>49738144
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/05-10-16-jori-en-ruin-diver/?cat=custom&sort=

Here you go, the description explains the basic premise.

>>49737842
Holy shit. Is Sensei's Divining Top bad too?
Stop making the "/tg/ is bad at magic" meme true.

>>49737842
>Plays a general that specifically cares about the top card of the deck
>Thinks Sylvan isn't fucking amazing in that deck

The only excuse should really be price, because that shit is bonkers with Rashmi.

>>49738210
Why the Ornithopter?

>>49738260
But Sensei's Divining Top is bad because once you use it, you pretty much need to use it every turn, it's also vulnerable to mill, and people take 4 hours to resolve the stupid thing.

>>49736975
LOVECRAFT PREDATES MARVEL DUMBASS

YOUR WHATS WRONG WITH MAGIC, ALONG WITH FUCKING PLANESWANKER FOCUS. WHAT THEFUCK IS A LIVING GUILDPACT?! SOUNDS LIKE JACE BEING A MARY SUE.

>>49738210
Its a 0cmc creature that gives me a needed flying blocker and part of a package of cards that can be played the same turn I drop Jori En

The tempo should be:

T1: Land
T2: Land, Mana rock
T3: land, Jori En, either 1cmc or 0cmc spell, draw
T4: start looking for win conditions.

I'm still exploring the card pools for both colors so it probably will be removed sooner or later but right now it fills a little nice role of letting me drop something big, but still get the draw value.

>>49738364
Sorry, this >>49738468 is meant for you.

>SOUNDS LIKE JACE BEING A MARY SUE.
Isnt Jace like, the least Mary Sue out of all of them? He seems to fail and lose a whole freaking ton right?

>>49737650
I feel like you're being very something but I'm not sure what. We still dont know the purpose of the Eldrazi we don't know why Emrakul trapped herself. It wasn't presumably for no reason,we just don't know or understand the reason. I think EMN missed the tone by a lot but SOI nailed it imo. It was Lovecraft to a T, or as close as magic could get. And the conclusion felt appropriately mysterious. We don't know anything about the Eldrazi yet. People are making extrapolations but we purely don't know anything for sure about what they do or why yet. It feels unfair that wizards isn't getting the credit when I think they hit the correct tropes like unclear motives or purpose for existnce. It just gets trivialized as no reason or getting pulled out of their ass or whatever. It may very well be, I still don't think creative themselves know what the Eldrazi are for yet in the grand scheme of the multiverse hence the vague implication given by Ugin at the end of OGW.

>>49737734
Yeah... I am implying that. They wouldn't have one whole new Innistrad block then go "oh shit... Bloodborne was popular, less go and toss Emrakul in there to ape that". When they get done with a block. They have to move to another block, I don't know if we know the timeframe for when marketing starts but I'm sure even that was done before Bloodborne was released. I think you are way overestimating Bloodborne's impact on gaming. Innistrad already had the setting and even obviously the transform mechanic as part of its identity back in what, 2011? If you bring cosmic horrors there, its going to feel similar even if it's really purely coincidence. And as said, creative's said Emrakul on Innistrad was being tossed around as far back as when it was first released.

>>49737202
>Nahiri

I have been trying to understand this character's motivations but she's made absolutely no sense. Maybe someone could help me out?

So she got mad that Sorin didn't help with an Eldrazi threat even though he loterally went back to seal them. She found Sorin at some point, they got into an argument about nothing which ended up with him sealing her (who he considered a daughter) in an eternal demon prison, then she came out and decided to fuck an entire plane because Sorin was born there.

That makes no sense. What am I missing?

>>49738632
The Eldrazi got loose twice in Zendikar's history. The first time was many (1000?) years ago. Ugin was dead or incapacitated on Tarkir depending on the tineline, and Sorin didn't receive the distress signal due to Avacyn and the Helvault accidentally blocking outside interference, since their purpose was to protect Innistrad from threats both in and out of Innistrad. Thats when Nahiri herself stops the since she still had old walker powers and the Eldrazi were not fully unleashed, just sort of probing. 1000 years later is when Nissa release s the final seal on the Eldrazi again pissing off Sorin.

>>49738570
None of that changes the fact that art and flavor are decided after mechanics are laid out.

To think that Bloodborne becoming a frenzied fan fare, not only at launch but months leading up to its release, a little over a years development time from the launch of SoI only a little under half ways through Innistrad's estimated development cycle, being SO similarly focused in so many ways, that it WASNT immediately studied by Wizards. That would imply a lot of negatives about Wizard's design teams and the brands ignorance of their surrounding entertainment industries with which Wizards is in competition with.

>>49738527
>I still don't think creative themselves know what the Eldrazi are for yet in the grand scheme of the multiverse hence the vague implication given by Ugin at the end of OGW.

If that was the case then it would be better to not touch them at all, instead of killing 2 of them dead, then fucking with the ideas of the third.

The concepts of Emrakul in EMN were a bad attempt to force the "the stars aren't aligned" lovecraft joke, onto something they have already explained doesn't function that way, and they COULD be killed. It COULD have worked, if the entire rest of the set and narrative leading up to it wasn't victory over the eldrazi, but more dark and hopeless. But its not that. Its written straight out of left field and not only shows how desperate they were to make Emrakul into just the magic version of Cthullu, but derails the narrative and denies her being an Eldrazi, the monster she already WAS.

I blame it solely on the 2 set block structure, which fucks with the three act narrative needed for most good stories. Everything is too rushed to really work.

>>49738527
My problem at the end of the day was that the finale was incredibly anticlimactic. Suddenly in the middle of the battle it's VHOOOOOOP Emrakul is now on the moon guys, it's done now. Like, seriously? Could you not throw in some cliffhangers? Would it kill you to see the Gatewatch shattered and scattered, only to have Jace and Tamiyo find each other at the last second and pull together their desperate spells, barely sealing Emrakul on the moon as the Eldritch monsters close in on all sides?

Seems way better than VHOOOOOOP Emrakul is now on the moon. The tempo of EMN was so fucked up.

>>49738480
hes the posterboy for mtg, founded the superbuddies and is thier leader. and hes a smug asshole who acts like hes always in the the right when hes not. at least thats what i get from the cards that quote him.

i want to get into mtg lore, but jace most of all pushes me away. i was hype when i heard he was gonna be useless, but then he goes with the help of his superfriends and seal away emberkool in the moon, because ugin plan of sealing the eldrazi in the thing that was made to ONLY seal them was shit, but the moon was so much better. he did the same exact thing he shit on ugin for doing, ruined that, then did the SAME EXACT THING ugin was trying to do. he doesnt get enough guff for his mistakes and makes everything "right" in the end and takes all the credit. i sure hope koolaids power doesnt bleed from the moon. thats a lie. i hope it does.

>>49738753
You also forget that Magic already HAS a lovecraftian horror monster in Marit Lage.

Eldrazi were cooler because they were more like aliens then anything else.

>>49738682
Thank you for that. That still doesn't explain the hatred between her and Sorin though. Or do we not even know the reason yet?

>>49738762
Didn't Gideon found the superbuddy squad?

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>>49738762
Is your shift key broken?

>>49738853
even if he did people will still think he is the leader

>>49738860
no im on my phone

>>49738829
Because Sorin didn't answer the distress call the Hedron network has built in when it becomes compromised, then brushed her off when she confronted him over it. In truth he was just completely wiped from creativity Avacyn and the Helvault and couldn't go with her to clean up Zendikar which is why he brushed her off, but because he's a millennia old vampire and black he came across as an asshole which pissed off Nahiri. And as an old walker she has a lot of weight to throw around to throw massive temper tantrums. Sorin contained her in the Helvault because she threatened him.
>>49738753
What exactly do you propose SOI block took from Bloodborne, specifically? Innistrad had this setting already as well as deeply ingrained mechanical themes of transformation, and they planned on Emrakul having a plot there back when it was first released. Besides that, at the veryvleast mechanical themes and the concepts behind them were done well before Bloodborne. The only things that could have been left by the time it was a thing are maybe art and marketing and I don't even know for sure those weren't already done. So what do you think SOI block had that was inspired by specifically by Bloodborne? The marriage of Eldritch horror and traditional Gothic horror themes was already a thing back during old Innistrad, and the mechanics involving transformation of people with emerge, delirium, madness, and the 3/2 horrors and such also had to be done. Do you think something about the art or marketing was trying to riff on Bloodborne? How so?

>>49738759
The creative team is probably having some difficulties fitting a three-act story into a two-set block. I foresee aether revolt having the same problem.

Wizards seems to be locked onto the mindset of the first set being an establishing shot, but you can't do this without two more scenes, otherwise the resolution bleeds into the conflict. The way to handle this narrative problem is to put the conflict into the first set. It would just be a bit of dramatic irony if the story of investigation bled into the story of emrakul's reveal.

It's an awkward spot no matter what they do, but the "establishing shot" might best belong as a teaser in the second set of the previous block. This would give the story some continuity and effectively show how narrow the border between worlds is for our protagonists.

>>49738762
>hes the posterboy for mtg, founded the superbuddies and is thier leader. and hes a smug asshole who acts like hes always in the the right when hes not. at least thats what i get from the cards that quote him.
That's sort of what I would expect from an archetypal blue character. Being ego-consumed and blinded by your own delusions are fitting flaws.

Keep in mind that it took years for Urza to receive some true comeuppance for his flaws, and the Gatewatch has been barely introduced. It's a bit too early for Jace to have a fall from grace.

>>49738775
What if lovecraft is not the template for good fiction? Having a noodle mouth monster in a story doesn't require submitting to some kind of literary dogma.

Look at the difference between how Lovecraft monsters are received versus Mary Shelly monsters. Nobody sees an undead horror born from science and cries out "Your themes are different, you're not allowed to use those tropes."

>>49738759
They can't throw in a cliffhanger like that. It just doesn't make sense as the narrative of a single block. The cliffhanger comes at the end. That's why it's a cliffhanger. I mean, does it really matter if it was the same story but somewhere during it the Gatewatch was broken up and they had to find each other? It honestly feels like filler. That can be fine for a book but they can't tell story like that in a card game. Maybe it's the fault of the medium but it's either that or nothing really. It's hard enough to tell plot points as it is. Theyve even gone so far as to number plot related cards so the order can be made out. I'm not saying magic story is literary gold ot perfect. It's so not. But I mean, I feel like people want the story told a specific way and it can't always work like that. It really needs to be concise. I already feel like Kaladesh has a lot of different plot threads its following, with Natalie and tezzeret plus Liliana motivations and Ajani and it's getting kind of lost. SOI block was pretty straightforward.

>>49738775
I really don't follow. Lovecraft's monsters are, actually, aliens. So I man I dunno what you mean. Old Zendikar block had that feeling with them being thought of as an ancient race with powerful technology hidden away in ruins. But now Eldrazi feel pretty much like Marit Lage to me which is the more pop cturey interpretation where the association's with outer space and ancient hyper advanced tech and all that is not really the focus.

>>49739075
>Wizards seems to be locked onto the mindset of the first set being an establishing shot, but you can't do this without two more scenes, otherwise the resolution bleeds into the conflict. The way to handle this narrative problem is to put the conflict into the first set. It would just be a bit of dramatic irony if the story of investigation bled into the story of Emrakul's reveal.

This.
The first set they introduce the set.
The second set, they used to introduce the conflict / plot
The third set they resolved the plot, and you got to see how the plane had changed as a result

Now they have just mashed set two and three into each other in an attempt at making it work out. So from a story perspective you don't get to feel the conflict at all, it's just instantly resolved.

They will probably solve it by making set 1 the conflict set in the future.

>>49738762
Jace has got to be one of the most misunderstood characters in this game. And its really all wizards's fault. It's not liek you can blame average joe for thinking jace is a smug asshole when so much flavor text features him feigning interest.

But here's the thing: He's actually not like that. In fact it's so far removed from his character that I wonder how they can put that stuff in the flavor text with a straight face. It's especially awkward because in the stories other characters, including himself, refer to him as being like that, but I can't think of any instance off the top of my head that he actually was. It makes it very awkward. Like there's an EMN story where he sees a reflection of himself it's the smug know it all, and he's like "wow man I sure am like that now I know why nobody likes me" and shit. But he isn't actually like that, you can tell through the rest of the damn story since it's being told from his perspective.

In a nut shell, Jace is basically an awkward nerd. He's actually a greatly built character, if you know what I mean, because it makes a lot of sense for him to BE that archetype as lame as it may appear to be. It makes complete sense that he is the person that he is with his power set and history. I think the only really forced part about him is how during his origins story they sort of gave him the standard bully backstory which is absurdly lame and not really necessary to paint him as an outcast. I especially love the interplay he has between his two ally colors in black and white. And there's a lot of things to like about Jace as a concept. It's just... not played up. Liliana suffers from this too, though it's even worse since she's straight up unlikeable rather than just being a lame stereotype by being the evil bitch who's evil for the sake of it when that's not really what she's all about. She has probably the best basis for a "good" or protagonistic black character and they just keep playing up her being horrible.

Who plays magic for the story?

>>49736785

>Majority of playgroup will single me out because I play "tryhard" decks
>Since I play Nekusar, Mimeo and Narset, I understand their reasoning but getting ganged up on gets old as fuck after awhile
>Instead of getting better, they demand that the other veteran and I build sub optimal decks to make it more fair
>Cave in and decide to build a lower power level deck, in a color I dont really like in the hopes of being left alone
>Show up the next night
>Still get singled out because "lol we dont know what it does XD"

And that was when I stopped caring.

>>49739331
I think the closest I've seen to jace actually being a snarky fuckboy n an actual story, at least recently, was the quote seen on Hedron Archive, and in context it really makes a lot of sense and doesn't sound as flagrantly smug as it does without it. It's something an actual person would really say in that situation. Given, probably not to a giant, ancient, all-knowing spectral dragon, but eh. In context he was actually pretty respectful to Ugin.

>>49739183
>tfw Khans will be the last solid story arch in Magic for years....

I feel sadness...

>>49738682
>accidentally
you really think a millennia-old vampire makes accidents?

>>49739331
name one redeeming quality about his personality.

>>49739529
he's not actually a smug asshole, that's just made up quotes for flavor text
does that count?

>>49739183
>They will probably solve it by making set 1 the conflict set in the future.
Which means exposition is going to suffer as a result. Especially on new planes; it's going to be a mess.

>>49739331
This guy right here hit the nail on the fucking head.

Jace ISNT this amazing, snarky, powerful and perfect teen angst character... he is actually almost always being used or controlled by the will of others and struggles getting anything done.

I think the Professor from Tolarian Community College has done a number of video's going over Jace and the many failures he has living up to the reputation the game gives him.

Just look at his life

Bullied as a nerd child until he was almost killed.

As a child he is manipulated by a sphinx with better mind control.

As a teen he is manipulated by Tezzeret and that planeswalker crime ring, the recent story pointed directly at a moment when Jace took part in the murder of an entire village of ratmen.

He fails against Nicol Bolas.

Gets manipulated by Liliana, multiple times.

Gets tricked into solving the Dragon's Maze to become the living guildpact because Niv didn't give a shit about doing THAT job.

Is constantly shown as his "normal" life being a stressful hell in which he can barely keep awake due to the demands of the Guildpact.

THEN gets dragged to Zendikar by Gideon

Is talked down to by Ugin, then is basically Gideon's bitch for this arch.

Goes to Inistrad and almost loses his sanity multiple times.

Loses to Emrakul, is saved by Emrakul deciding to fuck off into the moon.

All of this only to return to his hated desk job where an entire planes worth of characters was to specifically get him to side with them in the biggest bitchfest imaginable.

I think the only real win was against Chandra, which isn't that much of an accomplishment.

tldr: Jace being a perfect blue mage is wrong, he is actually the best written character in the guild pact until Ajani joins.

>>49738853
Yes which just makes it more messed up. Jace even worships the very ground Gideon walks on and he's still the leader. I can't eait for Garruk to break up the team by punching Liliana and maybe Jace to death. He has a legitimate reason to hate Liliana, but he just really doesn't like Jace.

>>49739606
Eh, I don't think he's well written because he fails a lot. And it's very easy to spin it as a bad thing that he does. The reason it's good that he has a history like that is because it explains WHY he is the person that he is. He's wants to solve other people's problems because he's caused so many problems in the past. He wants to learn about everything so he can avoid manipulation and being used as he's been so many times, because someone with telepathy and the ability to mind control people is pretty huge. He has the power to help a lot of people because he can see what they really feel but he can also destroy their mind. I really loved his relationship with al hammarret. It was really great to me. That was one of my favorite interactions during Origins.

>>49739647
He's not really the leader. I'm pretty sure Gideon is the de facto leader and the relationship is more like Cap and Tony which is probably what they're aping specifically.

>>49738940
So two characters that regarded themselves as a father/daughter relationship freaked out on eachother, one getting bannished to a nethervood then escaping and trying to destroy an entire plane, all because of a small misunderstanding that was easily handled anyway?

Seems like poor storytelling.

Also, didn't Sorin openly wonder where Nahiri and Ugin were in the first Zendikar set? Did that get retconned? Or did the time travel storyline change things?

>>49739659
That list isn't to define him, just point out that character wise he isn't the perfect, snarky, blue mage the cards make him out to be.

>>49736785
I did in my older group where I was more the veteran. I didn't mind. It freed me up to toy around with jankier builds and generals.

My current group is much more ruthless and it kind of obligates me towards higher tier builds, which is fine, but I miss the days where I could actually do work with my Opal-Eye Pariah-control-voltron deck.

>>49739686
It was more like mentor and protege. And Sorin is, again, a millenia old vampire. He is first and foremost a pragmatist. Whether it was his daughter or some stranger that endangered him, of course he would take them out. he's not a nice person and he does think on a different level than we might. But it makes sense that he would do what he did.

Also, he did wonder. He didn't know Ugin's fate as of Zendikar block and I seemed to recall him thinking the lithomancer was dead to due to presumably being a mortal and the effects of the medning, which was obv now a retcon. They've been playing pretty fast and loose with most story points pre, like, KTK block. They mostly just get the overall story beats and missed out on a lot of details, as that was when creative was really coming together to try and unify the current magic story. I suspect we'll see a lot less of this going forward until another big shift in how the story is managed.

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Help! Need to add Exsanguinate and Temple of the False God to my Oloro deck http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-life-gain-semi-budget-1/

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>>49738260

>>49739738
>But it makes sense that he would do what he did.
That's debatable. But I think it's more that even getting to that point in the story seems super forced and fake.

>>49732063
>For the most part only play when friends are in town on break from university.
>Get big goofy multiplayer games going

4 turns in
Me - Why are you still hitting me, my 2 drop got Blacked and all else I have is lands! Attack Blue, he's got a couple enchantment out already!
Green - "Nah, he hasn't done anything yet. Don't wanna antagonize"

>3 turns and my death later
Green - "Damn Blue, you're doing like 3 things a turn now and yet consistently still have 6 or 7 cards in hand by the end with all your card draw and Enchantments. Blue is so OP"
Fuuuuccckkkk you
Every Goddamn time
My decks usually barely function on paper even, man

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Any help with suggestions for my wife? she wants to to play defensibly while using alternate win conditions, like felidar sovereign and the like. im thinking something white blue but not too certain.

>>49739816
I mean, I don't understand how it doesn't. He's black aligned, he's a pragmatist, and he has the farsight and long term seeing where he's probably had many "proteges" throughout his history that have come and gone so that they are just people to him. The storyline was forced because it used the narrative device of basically just not having the character talk to each other like human beings which is lame but neither unusual nor out of place for magic so I can't compplain it too much. It's cheap but whatever. The only reason they even got into a fight was because Sorin couldn't just tell her that he was weak and that he only set up his defense that blocked out the distress signal to defend his own plane, and that the side effect was totally unintentional and that he never meant to abandon her. That he never really just says that which is what caused the whole thing to spiral out of control is the forced part since a normal interaction with real people probably would have involved that somehow. But I don't feel it was out of character or forced that sorin took her out and imprisoned because that's just how, at least I imagine, a character with his traits would handle it.

>>49732048
as well as this, dark salvation, zombie apocalypse, army of the damned, obelisk of urd, adaptive automaton, coat of arms, door of destinies

>>49739869
some deck with lab man combo wincon. you can just police people with blue.

>>49739869
Check my deck, might give you some ideas http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/oloro-life-gain-semi-budget-1/

>>49739554
citation needed

>>49739915
read magic story
in fact read the climax of EMN. That's the one where a lot of the story is told from his perspective where you can see he's not really outstanding arrogant or an asshole, but then he comes across his reflection in his mind and he's the jace that a lot of people of the general public thinks he is and he's like "man I sure am an asshole" when right in that fucking story he was just normal.

alternatively there's a story near the beginning of BFZ where they're heading to the sanctum of ugin I think. a lot of the beginning BFZ stories really.

>>49739886
Well his foresight must have been a little lacking if he didn't see the possibility of her escaping and being pissed.

The forced part is how quickly and easily it escalated to bannishment and seering hatred towards each other. I don't understand why she would take up arms against him suddenly just because he was a bit of a dick. And him bannishing her suddenly is a huge overreaction no matter how pragmatic and ancient he is.

>>49739986
Sorin didn't really have a seething hatred at the time as far as I recall from the story. He only was how he was in SOI as Grim Nemesis because of her getting out and fucking up Innistrad. He may have deserved it but I mean, he was pissed off for a reason. Back when he first imprisoned her it was probably close to nothing for him. I'm sure he's experienced many horrible losses, many maybe even caused by his own hand. This was just another one on his long road. I think that's what they were going for. It escalated quickly for Nahiri I suppose but considering the scale of the powers of the characters we're dealing with as they were at the time, I mean I guess it's not crazy that she would immediately flip tables over him being a dick. The whole deal that the Eldrazi would be imprisoned on Zendikar forevering ruining her home was only made on the basis that they would always all work together if anything bad happened there. It was a pretty big betrayal from her perspective.

Also, I don't think he had any reason to suspect she would get out of the helvault. What happened was she was released when Liliana did whatever she forced Thalia to do to destroy it. For narrative purposes stuff has to happen that breaks somebody's expectations. That's how so many stories, many good ones even, start. Something happened that somebody didn't foresee. I can't criticize magic for doing that. Yes, contrived stuff happens and coincidences occur. That's how the chosen one comes across the secret weapon or how the people stumble on the ancient treasure or whatever the hell. But i don't think that's the issue here.

It's also kind of a problem that they had to deal with that they kind of have to insert plot points where there were none and make them fit, like jamming a square peg into a circle hole. That's inevitable for a game as long lasting as magic so that's another thing I can't really blame them for.

>>49739792
Fuck, I think I need this for my frog. It's almost a wincon

>>49740123
Well, it is a wincon. You don't cast that shit for value.

>>49729451
>whenever wiwmfdngahasy attacks, it gains trample until end of turn if its power is 10 or greater

...Why would they bother with this sort of shit? Why not just give it trample?

>>49740156
so you can stifle it obviously. It would clearly be broken otherwise

>>49740123
Yea dude, can turn thing around really quickly. I play with Debt of the Dauntless aswell and that has won me multiple games

>>49739792
Honestly I can't suggest removes without knowing some stuff. Like First thing I noticed was Daxos doesn't fit a lifegain theme and is not very good goodstuff, so it seems like an obvious cut to me but a see an number of stuff like that so I don't know if there's someunderlying theme or some desire to specifcially play those cards or what.

>>49732063
I get targeted because my decks have a tendency to pull off bullshit wins out of nowhere, but they require a lot of setup. I do sometimes get focused on when someone else is clearly the bigger threat, I think my group just doesn't like combo wins. This despite having everyone else take the "turn creatures sideways" approach and making games take fucking forever without me.

>>49739940
all youve been telling me is to feel bad for him because bad things happened to him and nobody likes him. then when i ask why should i like him you say stfu read the books pleb.

>>49740210
What other cards are you thinking of? I play Daxos because he gives me life equal to the CMC of the card revealed and he is quite good control being able to take the opponents cards.

>>49740291
you don't have to like him, I was telling you why he was not what you think he is. and I was not telling you "stfu and read the books pleb". I was not taking that tone with you at all so don't even go there.

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>ordered $30 worth of proxies
>actual cards would have easily been $500
Based Chinaman. Fuck the secondary market

>>49740311
Cards that don't appear to fit a lifegain theme AND don't seem very good goodstuffy to me are
angelic skirmisher
resolute archangel
soul of theros
ajani steadfast (i think this is for the lifelink buff? but that's pretty minor)
true conviction (also I guess for the lifelink?)
zur's weirding
mostly it seems like you have a lot of creature buffing stuff but you have like 8 cheaper (3 and less) creatures and probably don't really want to swing with most of them like kambal or grand abolisher. but if you are playing creature stuff for reason go ahead.

>>49740372
Are you going to pretend they are real?
Or say they are proxies

>>49740372
Where to order good chinamen proxies tho?