So what were the Primarch's opinion of each other before

>>49713389
This is likely to get complicated fast. Maybe we should get an 18x18 grid and chart this out.

>>49713389
Ferrus and Fulgrim were good pals because of their mutual hatred for weakness.

>>49713416
That sounds like a good idea.

>>49713418
They were BFFs because they both loved self-improvement so much.

>>49713416
Let's start with good ol' Girlyman.
Lion El'Jonson - Didn't trust him as a leader
Fulgrim - Don't know, probably respected his technical abilities and cultural pursuits
Perturabo - I think he respected Perturabo
Leman Russ - Secretly respected him (for some reason)
Jaghatai Khan - Secretly respected
Rogal Dorn - Friends
Konrad - (I don't know)
Sanguinius - Friends
Ferrus Manus - Friends
Angron - Barbaric butcher with brain problems
Mortarion - Don't know
Magnus - Had a Librarius, and I think he supported it, so probably got along with him
Horus - Friends
Lorgar - Ambivalent, but hated being used to humiliate him, and was eager to mend bridges
Vulkan - (Don't know)
Corax - (Don't know, might've disliked him for the same reason he would dislike Alpharius)
Alpharius - Dislikes him, as he thinks his tactics cause needless confusion, making compliance much more difficult.

>>49713775
Dorn, Ferrus, and Sanguinius had a special name that Girlyman gave them. Like the triumverate or the perfect few. He said he could take any world in the galaxy with those three legions.

>>49713389
What I know for sure is that after the Heresy, almost every single one of these guys had a very intense and particular hatred for Fulgrim and his boys.

>>49713389
Have fun.

http://menducia.atspace.com/primarchs/I.html

Keep in mind that the first Roman numeral is the major arcana tarot number, while the second is the primarch number.

>>49713821
Yeah, I think Fulgrim's only real friends were Ferrus and Horus, while others it's varying mixes of respect for his skills vs. disdain for how much of a vain diva he seems

>>49713827
Holy shit, it's uncanny how well these match.

>>49713933
A few of them don't work. Like Sanguinius and Vulkan not getting along.

>>49713949
Yeah, I agree with you that a lot of the personal relationships don't match, but it's uncanny when it comes to the Primarch's person character.

>>49713821
They spent half the war pissing off their own allies and spent two thirds of the aftermath pissing off their fellow Traitors.

>>49713949
Based on what interactions of them?

I don't get how anybody could think much positive about somebody with CREEPY ASS FUCK CHAOS MONSTER EYES all over his armor.

>>49713389
>No one likes Pert, Morty, or Lorgar
>Everyone likes Horus and Sanguinius
>Lion and Dorn are huge tools all the time
>Angry Ron, Leman and Kurze are sketchy at best
>Whats an Alpharius?

>>49715852
Pert was liked by a few people; Magnus, Fulgrim (before he did drugs), Ferrus Manus, and Vulkan, and Guilliman.

Though out of all those, he only did call Magnus friend. The others listed respected him.

>>49715953
Girlyman most def did not like Pert. Especially after his whole decimation stunt

>>49713933
>uncanny
Try intentional. I was sure they were following tarot when I realized horus was the 16th.

>>49713799
>Bitch Squad

>>49713799
Row Boat called Leman Russ, Rogal Dorn, and Ferrus Manus the Dauntless Few

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I'm starting to understand why Corax was so miserable all the time. He was one of the most humanitarian primarchs, right behind Vulkan, and was either flat-out ignored or mocked for it by the others.

>>49713416
All i can think of is a hs shipping grid

>>49716017
The decimation business was added in the FW Heresy books, right?

>>49716668
>hs
fuck outta here

>>49713827
Damn thanks for linking

>>49713775
Guilliman fucking loved Leman Russ.

He was the one along with dorn and ferrus who guilliman felt would never betray the emperor no matter what.

>>49713799
Guilliman never got along with sanguinius. Or better, sanguinius never git along with guilliman.

>>49715771
The eye of terra was a major symbol
Even sanguinius wore it

>>49713775

Guilliman didn't like Peturabo. In fact the first thing he did upon meeting Peturabo was bitch at him for the Decimation and berate him for wasting all those Marines.

>>49719829
Maybe didn't like his manners but surely respected his skill. When pert gifted guilliman with a golden mechanical orb, guilliman put it at the top of the highest tower of Maccragge so everyone could see it

>>49719847

He probably put it there to get it as far out of reach as possible.

>>49719829
Source?

>>49713775
>might've disliked him for the same reason he would dislike Alpharius
don't think corax and guilliman had any animosity with one another

more of a mutual respect thing, since (like most loyalist primarchs) they weren't totally insane retards

What about Dorn?

>>49713389
What would have been different if Roboute had become Warmaster?

>does his best to reconcile with Lorgar
>sends Angron far away to the fringes of the Galaxy
>Dorn is on Terra

Know Roboute, he would have probably spread the legions out across the whole Galaxy, preventing the fraternisation that lead to the Revolt in the first place.

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Who liked the Lion?

>>49715852
Lorgar was liked by Magnus as his little brother.

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>>49719864

Extermination.

>>49719978
Knowing the Girlyman, he probably would have sent Corvax, Kurze, and the Twins into glorified exile to the darkest pits of the galaxy, far away from his well ordered Imperium.

>>49719864
Angel Exterminatus
>>49719847
He also helped modify his armour to make it better.

He did these kinds of odd jobs for all his brothers

>>49720100
I don't see the part about Girlyman.

>>49719986
Russ and him shared a mutual respect for each other, they are connected in a way that one's a beast under civilised guise while the other's merely pretending to be savage but is civilised instead.

>>49713389
Meanwhile the Khan just stands there all "None of these motherfuckers even have beards. I guess I can respect the cyclops' mane but come on brothers; where are your beards?"

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>>49720120

That's because you didn't read it. Here, the exact paragraph.

>>49713799
>>49716283
>>49719820

There was four Dauntless Few and Sanguinius was one of them.

http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Dauntless_Few

Guilliman viewed Sanguinius as one of his closest and most trusted allies. Sanguinius did not see it that way. Rather he hated him, believing that he was always tying to spy on him and find flaws with him. Field developments with Guilliman were something he very much disliked but he would go when called on for aid by them because they got work done together.

Ferrus Manus was the closest ally Guilliman had. However to Ferrus Manus Guilliman was just one of the many allies he had. Better on long campaigns then the others like Sanguinius,Fulgrim, Horus, Jaghatai Khan, Vulkan. Less personally useful on the field as a commander. Ferrus looked on the highly on the Ultramarines themselves in battle however.

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>>49720547
>turns out, Guiliman didn't have a single close friend, despite considerig many Primarch Brothers very close friends himself

wow, that's really sad.

>>49720547
You're forgetting Dorn, who considered him his closest brother alongside Horus

>>49720084
Magnus and Perturabo also got along well because of their joint love of discovering old knowledge (for different reasons)

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Who was Vulkan friends with?

>>49720637
>turns out, Guiliman didn't have a single close friend, despite considerig many Primarch Brothers very close friends himself

Not the point that I was trying to make because he does have true friends in Rogal Dorn and Leman Russ. Dorn respected his professionalism in all areas of his duty. When looking at some of the other members of the family it is easy to see why that earns respect.

For the case of Leman Russ it was a matter of Russ needing Guiliman ( and his legion) very badly. If the worst came to past and Russ needed to put down Horus, Sanguinius, Lion El'Jonson, or Jaghatai Khan his plan was to call Guiliman for help. He believed he could win against one of those foes but the cost to his legion would be very extreme. Having the largest and most flexible legion as back up goes a long way to covering the weakness of commanding one of the smaller and more specialized legion.

Guilliman had secret bilateral pacts with each of the Dauntless Few. Getting that pact with Guilliman was more or less what let Russ sleep at night. Then the HH happens and Guilliman is on the other side of the galaxy in a strategic quagmire. Russ may of been a bit more troubled if he knew Sanguinius had similar pact with Guilliman too.

>>49716627
>corax
>humanitarian

END TERRAN DISCRIMINATION! CORAX IS NOT MY PRIMARCH!

>>49721007
Point that I was trying to make is the relationship in between two given Primarchs may be viewed very differently by each of the Primarchs. Guiliman and his allies are just a few examples. They could not really keep on top of things inside the imperial court. Which in turn means the court is fucked in the long term. As it so happens it was very fucked.

>>49720887
Only really with Ferrus Manus. Not to say that Vulkan did not try to make friends with others. Notably with Lorgar and Perturabo. He even gave Perturabo a fully functional personally hand made scale model warhound Titan as a gift. It had tiny working void shields and weapon systems.

By the standards of nerd gifts that is the because gift ever. Sad that the effort never really bore fruit.

>>49721132
best gift ever*

How well did the "operator" primarchs get along? Alpharius, Corax, and Curze?

>>49713827
Tarot has two more Major Arcana cards so it doesn't match.

>>49720547
Wasn't Sanguinius almost post-Heresy Dark Angel-tier of being aloof and secretive, since he was so paranoid about stuff like the Red Thirst being found out about?

>>49713389
From that pic it's obvious that they all thought that Mortarion was a stinky bastard.

>>49721265
What are you talking about? Did you mean to say twenty-two? You mean the Fool and the World? The individual descriptions discuss that. The Fool represents relationships with the Emperor and the World represents relationships the Imperium/Humanity.

>>49721304
>>49721265
>Tarot has two MORE Major Arcana cards so it doesn't match.
Ack, I read you wrong. Yes, two MORE.

>>49721007
Proof for all of this, since this is the first time I've heard of this?

Or are you just conjecturing?

>>49721251
Alpharius was close to only Horus, Curze and Corax couldn't tolerate each other

>>49713389
imagine those fuckers shuffling about that fucking balcony or even trying to get to the fucking door

unbelievable

>>49721410
>Implying Angron, Sanguinius, and the Khan don't just jump off the balcony.

>>49721007
The Lion would sooner have had to put Russ down than the other way around.

Everyone liked Sanguinius because they all wanted to run their fingers through his beautiful hair and touch his pretty wings

>>49720547
>Guilliman viewed Sanguinius as one of his closest and most trusted allies. Sanguinius did not see it that way. Rather he hated him, believing that he was always tying to spy on him and find flaws with him. Field developments with Guilliman were something he very much disliked but he would go when called on for aid by them because they got work done together.
>Ferrus Manus was the closest ally Guilliman had. However to Ferrus Manus Guilliman was just one of the many allies he had. Better on long campaigns then the others like Sanguinius,Fulgrim, Horus, Jaghatai Khan, Vulkan. Less personally useful on the field as a commander. Ferrus looked on the highly on the Ultramarines themselves in battle however.
Where are you sourcing these from?

>>49721334
It is across a great many novels and anthologies.
In no order the details are from

The Primarchs ( Feat of Iron ): When and why Ferrus Manus became friends with Vulkan with the story ending on him choose to make the effort to try befriend him not the details of the effort.

Know No Fear : details of the The Dauntless Few/ the allies of Guilliam as Guilliam views it.

Fulgrim: that Fulgrim and Ferrus Manus view each other as best friends.

Fear to Tread: details of what Sanguinius thinks about Guilliman

Vengeful Spirit: details that Lemon Russ did have a pact with Guilliman that he had planned to call upon if he had to put down Horus, Sanguinius, Lion El'Jonson, or Jaghatai Khan. Just how badly he needed that pact is conjecturing on my part based on the details given (size in relationship to other legions and skill set) about the Space Wolfs legion Prospero Burns.

Angel Exterminatus: Details of some of Vulkan efforts to make befriend Perturabo as Perturabo views it in hindsight. Sadly the model warhound Titan gets crushed in that novel. However on the bright side it was crushed with Fulgrim face.

Age of Darkness ( The Last Remembrancer ): I want to say that is were Dorn notes the good relationship that he has with Guiliman. Not sure, may of been in one of the other short stories.


Does that clear up things?

>>49721557
Were are you getting that from? 40k or HH? Because in the HH novel series it was clearly spelled out in a number of places that Russ and Dorn were the two Primarchs the Emperor trusted the most. Dorn being used to guard the capital and Russ being used to put down Primarchs that needed to be put down.

Also in the 40k novel "I Am Slaughter" the Grand Master of Assassins clearly notes that Russ's Job was putting down rogue Primarchs and draws parallels to that with his own Job.

His heavy handed act appear to be ( but are not clearly stated as such) efforts to create a measure of deniability for when ever the Emperor needs him to do something harsh. His image of being a barbarian IS clearly stated as being a deception by Malcador in "Vengeful Spirit".

>>49721830
From novels about the Lion. Also in Vengeful Spirit the Emperor unambiguously states that the Lion is absolutely loyal to him when Malcador doubts him.
Also
>loyalty is its own reward

>Grand Master
What's he basing his info on, given that the events are a thousand years after the Heresy?

And Russ' image of a barbarian being deception is Russ himself stating it in the Wolf King.
You got your sources assed up, might want to review them just in case.

>>49719986
No one really. Russ thought of them as having a friendly rivarly but that was most likely one sided

>>49721132
>>49721139
fun fact: later during the heresy peturabo
smashed the warhound with fulgrims face to show dominance and take control of the expedition to the eldar crone wold within the eye of terror

>>49721876
>Also in Vengeful Spirit the Emperor unambiguously states that the Lion is absolutely loyal to him when Malcador doubts him.

Missed that part. However Russ did say that he given though of how to kill all of his brothers in that same novel. Its just that with some of them it would be a lot harder to do that. That list is based on difficulty, not likelihood of the subject revolting.

>And Russ' image of a barbarian being deception is Russ himself stating it in the Wolf King.

The only HH Novellas that I have read were in the The Primarchs anthology. So I am not drawing the Wolf King. Is there a issue? From what I know the Wolf King takes place on the trip back from Prospero. In the Vengeful Spirit Russ was already back on Terra. Thus it took place chronically after the Wolf King and thus Malcador's out look on matter makes sense.

> What's he basing his info on, given that the events are a thousand years after the Heresy?

The Grand Master of Assassins is a ranking member of the Imperial senate. It is not stated were he go his info from, but if anyone is in the know about a subject it is likely him. That office was from 400 years before the events in I Am Slaugther till the enthronement of the Emperor was one of the high lords of Terra (they lost their place among the 12 high lords of Terra to the Inquisition, and yes he was salty about that). Before that it is one of the secondary offices held by Malcador.

>>49722450
I'm imagining the confrontation Vulkan had with Pert after he found out about it.

>"Oh and by the way, that's warhound model you made me?...IT WAS SHIT!" *retarded spikey demon potato manchild laughter*
>"Perturabo...you are no longer my friend."

>>49715852
Lorgar was kinda liked by all of them. He was a bit nerdy and a book-worm, but very charismatic and a nice guy.

>>49720117
Pert was nice to everyone and nobody was nice to him in return (save for Magnus)

>>49720381
Pretty sure that Russ had a beard

>>49722684
>kinda liked by all of them
>He is so... changeable. He is so prone to extremes. Eager to please, so quick to take offence. He's so keen to be your best friend, and then, at the slightest hint of an insult, he's angry with you. Furious. Offended. Like a child- guilliman
>You are the most pathetic weakling I have ever seen - Curze
>dropping his spaghetti with Ferrus and Fulgrim
>mocked by Angron

He was a joke

>>49721251
Alpharius didn't meet most of them. He was close to Horus and kinda gets along with Lorgar in the HH novel

>>49722715
Nope, check any official art, even his mini doesn't have one

>>49722729
>kinda gets along with Lorgar

Nope. The only official interaction we have is him being mentioned as staring at him intensely in the aftermath of Isstvan.

>>49713389
A lot of them disagreed with and disliked each other to begin with, the Heresy is just when it all kind of blew up, partly due to Chaos meddling, partly because a lot of the primarchs were demigod man-children who probably would have started warring with each other eventually even without Chaos pushing them to it.

>>49722719
He managed to "befriend" Angron though, he was also liked by Magnus.

>>49722764
Maybe so, but the claim he was liked by all of them is wrong.

>>49722763
And don't forget the superfluous second founding shittery, where it was shown that while Khan and Corax liked the book, Russ, Dorn and Vulkan did not and so those three started to complain...a lot.

>>49722764

Read Betrayer's first chapter, he was a friend with Magnus yet like other primarchs, Magnus too looked down upon him.

>>49720797
Nerds unite!

>>49722764
Been some time since I've read Betrayer, but wasn't Angron just around Lorgar because Horus ordered it? Angron wasn't really thrilled about it, and only warmed up to Lorgar after Lorgar saved him from being obliterated by a Titans Plasmacannon.

>>49722812
Wouldn't really suprise me if the Primarchs were hardcoded to look down on everything but the Emperor and themselves.

>>49713389
Corax hated Horus.

>>49721265
There are only 20 primarchs, though. I suppose you could put the Emperor in there somewhere (The World, maybe? He doesn't seem to fit the Fool, from limited knowledge of Tarot)

>>49723398
>In many esoteric systems of interpretation, the Fool is usually interpreted as the protagonist of a story, and the Major Arcana is the path the Fool takes through the great mysteries of life and the main human archetypes.

>>49715852
Russ was Bros with Sangy and Lion. I'm sure he tried to keep his distance from most of his brothers knowing that he might have to put them down one day if they got out of line

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In the "a thousand sons" depiction Everyone lowkey disliked Magnus, the ones that didn't outright hate him just tolerated him.

>>49720120
Did you read it you illiterate avocado?

>>49722764
magnus was cool with lorgar as both of them didn't shy away from the warp, but nonetheless magnus viewed him, much like the others, as a simpleton when it came to dealing with the great ocean.

from a philosophical standpoint they were ok with each other.

>>49723547
I thought the Fool typically represented more free-spirited people, though.

>>49721557
You Lionfags are insufferable

>>49723639
Probably sucked to find out you're a superhuman destined for great things, then discover your nerdy faget brother could probably kill you easily if he ever put his mind to it

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>>49721876
>loyalty is its own reward
You faggots keep stating this (likely all you samefagging) but actions speak louder than words and the Lion is one shady mother fucker.

>And Russ' image of a barbarian being deception is Russ himself stating it in the Wolf King.
Not true at all fagtron. Ahirman muses on the subject in A Thousand Sons, and Constatin Valdor mentions to Russ something about his need to play the barbarian king is amusing.

>>49723814
Lion for life dogfucker.

>>49723639
Space Wolves

>>49723884
>one shady motherfucker

Every loyalist except Dorn was

>>49724064
Russ, and Corax weren't shady at all

>>49721382
Omegon seems to have only got along with his brother. Doubt anyone knew about him besides the Big E.

>>49723639
Ironically he liked his brothers, sure they were dickish sometimes, but they were family still. It's not like your family is trying to kill you...

>>49723685
No, the Fool is much more than that.

The Fool represents the beginning of a journey, creativity, possibility, chaos, insanity, divine inspiration, and a vareity of other things.

In terms of use in the actual game (people tend to forget that tarots were even a card game a lot), it was a worthless yet also extremely useful card. The card is always lost, but still a valid one to play, used in a "lose the battle, but win the war" sort of way. Traditionally numberless but later decks gave it the number zero, though some also give make it XXII

>>49724090
Oh no, not at all. Except two more primarchs defending Terra would have saved the Emperor, but they rather chose to fall back behind the traitors' line and harry them.

>>49724276
Sooo...it works to have it represent the Emperor?

>>49724276
Where do you get all this from?

>>49723639
>>49724229
While he liked his brothers, the only ones who openly liked him was the Khan and Lorgar as far as I remember (feel free to correct me if I'm wrong). Everyone else seemed at most neutral towards him. Even Sanguinous seemed to have a somewhat negative impression.

>>49722927
Yeah, Angron only warmed up to Lorgar after that. Before that I'm pretty sure he only considered him a fanatic. Lorgar on the other hand was probably the only Primarch who thought Angron was worth saving at all.

>>49724319
I don't see why it couldn't, The Fool is really versatile meaning wise, and the Emperor certainly fits the bill in more ways than one. People tend to get caught up on the name and assume it is meant for the carefree or idiotic, but it can describe even the smartest person.

Hell, he could probably even fit some meanings of the reversed Fool in a few ways too.

>>49724323
I took some writing classes in Uni, and we had a lot done about motifs. Specifically tarots were given a bit more attention than others just because my professor was sick of movies and shit getting them wrong all the time.

So it got kind of drilled into me.

>>49724381
Cool. Reason being, what interests me most is in how >>49713827 was used to extrapolate the personalities and relationships of the two missing primarchs for The High Priestess and Fortune.

>>49724431
Just looked at them and I'd have to agree with you there.

>>49724090
Wulfen and Raptors you say?

>>49724174
Lorgar most likely knew, since he gave Alpharius two editions of the book of lorgar, each differing only subtly

>>49724517
>Wulfen
DIGGANOBZ!

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>>49713389
Loved by many, admired by most, hated by none.

>>49724431
Well I always thought that the missing primarchs was really interesting in that regard. As one anon already said, it is pretty likely GW intentionally chose this number of Primarchs in order to match the tarots. At least to add some (possibly superficial) themes to them.

The High Priestess has a lot to do with hidden mystery, and the idea of being somewhat omniscient knowledge wise. So I'm guessing the missing Primarch might have been a very powerful Psyker like Magnus, which would explain why all the other Primarchs are wary of him if the 2nd did indeed go traitor.

Not to mention the reversed High Priestess is also associated with Betrayal.

Wheel of Fortune is a bit of an odd one though, in a normal interpretation I can't really think of a reason for why this one in particular would be lost. But in the reversed position the Wheel of Fortune can represent things spiraling out of control. Basically "everything that can go wrong, is going wrong" the card.

>>49724569
If it helps one of them was loved by Lorgar and Horus and the other one was considered wasted potential

>>49724630
>and the other one was considered wasted potential
Who by?

>>49724431
Looking at it, the missing primarchs seem to be the balancing segments for Mortarian and Konrad. I wouldn't be surprised if the Priestess was a traitor while Fortune was actually lost.

>>49724637
By Horus, in false gods he has a spirit vision and sees the II pod and waxes poetic about paths unwalked and potentials wasted

>>49724637
IIRC, wasted potential is brought up during Horus' acid trip in False Gods, when he shows up in the Emperor's lab and messes with the primarch pods.

>>49722730
I think we can all agree though that Russ should have had a beard and looks amazing with one.
Which is exactly why the Khan just couldn't be bothered with the Imperium. Nobody cultivated a beard, or even a moustache. Sideburns at least, come on! But no.

>>49724569
>The High Priestess is ultimately the one who can communicate an understanding of the highest goals of the Fool to the rest of the system, individually and in ways they can each understand.
Now THAT seems like a skill that could've stopped the Heresy!

>>49724701
Pity they were probably killed off.

>>49724720
>>49724701
I wouldn't be surprised if they were corrupted by the Chaos Gods. Tarot wise, II would have had an extremely close relationship with the warp, but would be more of an observer type. Very detached type of person likely, and would be ripe pickings for say Tzeentch to manipulate.

>>49724701
>>49724720
What if he was killed because he got too wise and found out that the primarchs and the legions would get thunder warrior'd after the Crusade?

>>49724720
I think The High Priestess was the one who did something unforgivable. Wheel of Fortune seems more like they had an unfortunate accident or something.

>>49724764
>Wheel of Fortune seems more like they had an unfortunate accident or something.
Could be, maybe they were just in the wrong place at the wrong time.

>>49724764
I wonder if there were two separate events or if the two primarchs were involved together in some mishap. Fortune acting the accomplice to High Priestess's plans.

>>49724748
I seem to recall somewhere that one was ciporrupted by chaos and the other by xenos.
So the priestess was chaos touched, and fortune was raised by ayys?

>>49724823
That's just a fan theory.

Officially the only things we know is
>destroyed by Wolves
>an event in the past had 9 primarchs and their legions involved, and were forbidden to speak of it under penalty of death, only officially confirmed there are Magnus and Mortarion
>one close to Lorgar and Horus, the other one wasted potential
>might or might not have had their legions absorped into the Ultras
>most likely had something to do with gene seed problems

>>49724823
>and fortune was raised by ayys?
What if Fortune was basically Abe from the Oddworld games, except not a Mudokon.

Im casting my lot in with a the Fool being Humanity, and The World being The Emperor.

>>49724873
>destroyed by Wolves
Not confirmed
>might or might not have had their legions absorped into the Ultras
Did not happen according to author.

Everything else is good.

>>49724893
>not confirmed
Come on now, with all the hints given it's obvious the wolves did it

>Did not happen according to author
Only thing ADB said is that people shouldn't take in universe rumours as absolute truth, he didn't say it's false

>>49724878
Being able to possess other species does sound like a way to gain empathy for other life forms out there and to openly speak against xenocide...

>>49719986
Russ. They patched things up later on.

Did he work with Alpharius? I seem to remember reading that somewhere that Alpharius respected Lion.

Mainly he kept to himself, though, and his story is primarily about his own Legion.

How did the other Primarchs react to Lion in the Imperium Secundus stuff? That's probably the most interaction we see with Lion and the others outside of decking Russ.

>>49725035
Guilliman is jealous and it's revealed that he's sort of like his idol and big brother.

Sanguinus mistrusts him because of his secrets.

Curze thinks they're the closest brothers and tries to convert him numerous times.

About Alpharius, the only thing in common they have is the secrets, and AFAIK they haven't even fought against each other yet

>>49725035
I think during the Secundus he and G-Money were mutually distrusting each other; they both felt the other was ambitious and dangerous, which is fair - they're both incredibly capable commanders, the Lion felt and said that he should have been Warmaster, while Guilliman had built an empire, they both had very strong legions

Really they were just relieved when Sanguinius turned up, though the feeling wasn't particularly mutual

>>49725130
>khan fulgrim smiley
>fulgrim lorgar Maggy or vulkan smiley
>khan lorgar smiley

Can't check them all but those are your biggest mistakes in the first five

>>49725077
OK, must have imagined the Alpharius thing.

About Sanguinius, though. The picture that's coming across is that he was the one guy almost everyone trusted, but was quite paranoid about everyone else.

>>49725130
Last spot needs a smiley face.

>>49725195
Yes, quite true, he had his legion under command to immediately murder any outsiders, marines or not that found out about the red thirst

>>49725130
Those smileys really should be colour coded, they all just blur into one as is.

>>49725130
This is based on FW's Legion chart, isn't it?

>>49713389
>Everyone loved Horus and Sanguinius
Corax hated Horus because he was a bitch who didn't understand siege warfare.

>>49713827
>The Sun: The Sun may worry about the Lovers' lack of consistancy, and the Lovers may find the Sun a little unadventurous. (Sol/Gemini)

Haha, that really does fit Dorn's and Alpharius's relationship. That shit just fits too well together.

Also thinking about it, would Omegon be the same Arcana as Alpharius?

>>49725316
Well they used the same tactics and had the same personality, only one bought into the Cabal bullshit while the other didn't

>>49723398
Emperor and Malcador. Malcador did more than anyone possibly including the Emperor in founding the modern Imperium, he helped found the inquisition, Administratum, and officio assassinorum. Guilliman may have been a logistical genius but Malcador founded and ran the fucking Administratum.

>>49721132
>>49722450
>>49722595
>Tiny working Warhound mini gift
>Destroyed
Lowest of blows. If anyone gave me that I'd befriend that motherfucker so hard I'd take a bullet for their grandmother. That's just honour.

>>49724329
Was Lorgar's even a mutual friendship? It always seemed like Lorgar thought Magnus was his friend but Magnus never even thought about Lorgar.

>>49725391
To be honest it was used towards a good end
>>49725401
As the heresy went on he thought that Lorgar had gone mad.

Only he and Perty stayed sane

>>49725338
True. I guess the major difference is that Omegon didn't seem so prideful and more "kind," if you can even call it that. Not only that, but going by the Arcana, he didn't actually get along with any of his allied traitors.

>>49725401
Before the heresy they apparently often had good chats about philosophy and shit, but it got less frequent as the Great Crusade went on.

After the Heresy they had a much less cordial relationship, since Lorgar went full in on the Chaos thing, while Magnus was really, really reluctant.

>>49725130
Add smileys for themselves
>Curze/Curze
>:((((

>>49725483
I like how they rewrote Magnus and have him help the loyalists even after Russ fucked his shit up, truly the biggest heart of all

>>49725433
>To be honest it was used towards a good end
Explain please?
I dunno, it's just such a dick move. anytime anyone gifts me something, I take real good care of it because its more than just "here this is nice, take it", it's like a piece of their trust and friendship in me.

>>49725574
He smashed Fulgrim's face in with it

>>49725590
That didn't make him any less of a retarded spiky chaos manchild potato though.

>>49724720
They could be anything.

>>49725590
Well that's nice but eh, >>49725613 's right.

>>49725613
No, but it was worth the titan

>>49725130
>all those :| in Corax's row

>>49716627
He was miserable all the time because the only Primarch wimpier than him was Lorgar.

>>49725590
Not like it mattered at that point.

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>>49724293
How is that shady? Also do you understand how wars are fought? Russ and Corax were opening more fronts to spread the traitors thin. If they weren't out kicking ass the full weight of Horus' legions would have wrecked all the defenses on Terra

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>>49713775
G-money and Corax both voiced misgivings about Mortarion to Emps, while Johnson and Perturabo just shunned him

He apparently got on okay with Horus and Curze, presumably bonding with the latter over having terrible childhoods

>>49725195
sanguinius was always hesitant of his wings as a sign of divinity or purity, which everyone else loved but he himself hated and feared.

it is ironic that he was one of the greatest afflicted with self-doubt in contrast with the high esteem that virtually every other primarch held him in

>>49724630
where is it stated that Lorgar and Horus loved them

>>49725930
The first heretic, where the serrated sun chapter marines mention that killing XI in his pod would have saved Lorgar lots of pain and hurt, emotional and physical.

As for the second one it could've been False Gods but who knows

>>49724893
>Not confirmed
do you need it spelled out for you? the hints make it pretty clear

>>49719986
Him and Russ were BFFs in the parts that follow the Battle of Terra, particularly after an argument where the Lion stabs Russ in the chest (Russ let him, it's nuts).

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>>49725130
>Fulgrim is the only one without so much as a single frowny face

>>49725433
>As the heresy went on he thought that Lorgar had gone mad.

Magnus was already a demon prince and fucked in the head by that point

>>49726977
No he wasn't.

He was just projecting around, McNeill has confirmed the crimson king will be about his deteriorating mental state ending with him finally accepting the gift in time for Terra

>>49726008
>the serrated sun chapter marines mention that killing XI in his pod would have saved Lorgar lots of pain and hurt, emotional and physical.

Not true at all, they just say it would save them a lot of trouble

>>49727015
He became a demon prince after he got BTFO by Russ

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>>49726218
>argument where the Lion stabs Russ in the chest
wat

>>49727228
Old fluff, new he only becomes so by the end
>>49727291
Lion was mad at Russ that he insisted they help random backwater planets on the way to Terra so they didn't get there in time, Russ bared his breast and bid him to avenge their father, Lion realized how stupid it was and diverted the blow at the last second, so he only destroyed Russ' second heart instead of killing him

>>49727549
Yet it clearly only applies to the legions and not to the primarchs themselves you mong, which you'd know if you read the thread

>>49727521
What's the sauce on that, I've read a lot but not this.

>>49727707
Index astartes or collected visions, I just know it's old as shit

>>49727725
Will check, thanks.

>>49725855
So why did they dislike Morty? Aside from obvious stuff like "he likes inhaling toxic fumes"

I remember Scars shows that Khan thinks Morty is a huge hypocrite.

>>49727925
What's there to like?

>>49727925
Designated weirdo.

Also in Scars he's shown bragging about how harder his upbringing was compared to the other primarchs out of nowhere and they just act like he said nothing

>>49725130
Assuming the chart is
>BFFs
>Respects
>Neutral
>Dislikes
>Hates

I don't think Dorn hated Perturabo, that hatred was more of a one sided thing.

>>49727925
Rowboat correctly assumed that Morty's loyalty was towards Horus and not the Emperor

>>49727954
Angry Ron does that all the time

>>49725130
Change it to red faces for hate and green faces for like. This reads horribly from a distance or on mobile.

>>49727945
He's determined, I guess. Other than that he's a morbid killjoy who hates psykers a lot.

>>49724431
If GW was able to use this characterization as it's basis, and putting aside the issue of competence, would we accept them breaking the convention of leaving the two lost Primarchs as blank slates to tell the story of a pre-Heresy insurrection, featuring the traitor Primarchs acting on the Emperor's behalf?

>>49728746
Doubt it, the lost primarchs have become one of the untouchable mysteries, and I think even if 40k ends we'll never know the truth, simply because it's better this way

>>49725371
Malcador model when?

>>49728827
is he HH novel recent lore?

>>49730173
Malcador has been around for ages.