>Letting your enemies walk away after defeating them You don't

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Is the enemy a loli?

Well how are you going to fight them again next time?

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I let them go once, telling them to go and do no more evil.
If they do evil again, then I kill them.
Mercy my shield, Justice my sword.

Depends entirely on context.

>>49666636
>Slaying an enemy that's truly remorseful for his actions and will accept punishment to atone.
>Not taking the villain back to the proper authorities
Enjoy your fall, loser. Deus Vult.

>>49666712
>Justice
>Mercy
>Not mutually exclusive
Loving every laugh

>>49666636
My group was confronted with some hostile elves last session while my character wasn't around to act as a liason. They managed, thanks to good rolls, to knock them out non-lethally until my character got back.

When I returned, I rebuked the elves harshly: no blood had to be spilled afterwards.

>>49666636
>Wuxia campaign
Fisticuffs is how we do diplomacy.

>>49666753
Exactly. That's why they get one first, then the other.

Not every conflict is a fight to the death. Not even every fight is a fight to the death. If your DM is at all realistic, most aren't. Sane enemies retreat once it's clear they're losing. Most predatory monsters run away if you seriously hurt them. I use half HP as a benchmark for "seriously wounded, might run away now."

>>49666788
People die, literally, all the time in wuxia.

>>49666712
One chance, then kill kill!

My group has befriended, scared off, or let free every sapient entity we have come across except for one illithid.

>>49666709
This. Killing an enemy is a waste, everyone knows that you beat them to the edge of death, lecture them on their faults, and let them live. About half the time they instantly become your steadfast ally, another quarter they come back stronger later, and the rest of the time they're dicks and try to backstab you for showing mercy, at which point you are fully justified in murdering them in cold blood. And 3/4s of the time you get a good outcome, so no killing unless they're in that last category. Or unless they're nameless soldiers in faceless helmets. Or they're monsters. You know. Not real people.

>>49666802
Those who still disagree after diplomacy do.

>>49666752
>Implying I'd ever play a paladin

>>49666636

My enemy usually can't even stand right after I'm done with their ass, let alone walk.

>>49666858
Anon, you're supposed to fight the enemies, not rape them. Put the banjo down slowly and think about what you've done.

>>49666871
Well obviously he did their asses.

>>49666636

Unfortunately the local currency is legs.

>>49666697
A loli is never an enemy.

>>49666753
Justice untempered by mercy is vengeance

My PCs (well, some of them) actually wanted to spare an enemy baddie a couple of sessions ago because they liked that he comported himself honorably. That same honor was why he refused their offer, though.

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>>49667091
Excellent point

>>49666636

Depends entirely on
>who my enemy is
>who my character is
>why we're fighting in the first place

>>49666752
>Not taking the villain back to the proper authorities

Why do so few people understand the fact you're a paladin means *you're* the proper authority.

>>49667179
Shit, man, I've only got 8 Int, I'm not sure I should be the one making these sorts of legal decisions.

>>49667117

Mercy is for those unwilling to mete out justice.

>>49667229

All that matters is the Wis score, anon.

>>49666753
Well, pharah-mercy is actually a good combo

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>>49667288
Chocolate-Vanilla is always a good combo.

>>49667243
Justice tempered by mercy is the foundation of all legal systems in the Western world today.

>>49666636
Depends on the genre.

>>49667398

And look how packed our jails are, and how we're being invaded by mongrels. .45 is cheaper than rehabilitation or deportation.

>>49667382
I would an Ahagon. And a granny.

Too bad the granny isn't interested

>>49667431
>shoot 'em all and let God sort 'em out is a sound legal code

>>49667398
You mean justice tempered by money. I understand the confusion since the words are similar, but it's best not to get them mixed up.

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>>49666774
Did you fug them?

>>49667456
You know very well I was talking about principles, not realities. Take your b8 elsewhere.

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>>49666709
DAT'Z DA PROPPA LOGIK, LET'Z GO WAAAGH TOGETHA

>>49667450

Try and convict, then shoot'em all and let god sort them out. Problems are meant to be solved, not coddled.

>>49666752
The paladin actually is the guy who should be deciding these things. I mean, the whole embodiment of justice thing.

>sneak attack crit a bitch in the face with an exploding arrow
>she gets a lady boner for my character

>>49667450
>As opposed to out obsession with "rehabilitation" and the mallable man
Going to extremes is easy, from "leave it to God" to "we are God".

>>49667567
Just because he can, doesn't mean he should.

The point of the paladin is not to be judge, jury, and executioner. Nor is it to be a doormat who lets everyone off with a slap on the wrist.

Paladins are the embodiment of FAIRNESS. The law decrees that the bandit must hang. Then so he shall, after he's been convicted by an officer of the court. Or maybe he truly wishes to repent. Does he not deserve the chance to try? A man who takes a life may also save one. If, however, he spurns the mercy shown to him, then he may be executed without remorse.

Paladins are charged with their abilities, not because they are expected to dole out justice but, because they are considered responsible enough to know when to extend the sword, and when to extend the olive branch.

And the amount of people who don't understand this is honestly baffling.

>>49667855
>implying I was favouring one extreme over another
>implying either extreme is sound legal judgement

Fuck. I hate how there's no one able to consider any kind of middle ground any more.

>>49668084

>The point of the paladin is not to be judge, jury, and executioner.

This is 100% the point of the Paladin. What do you think "Smite Evil" is for?

A Paladin is an ordained member of a knightly order. An order given the responsibility of disposing justice. Maintaining law and order is explicitly their job.

A paladin does not need to have a criminal "convicted" in a court of his peers to execute someone because the assumption is the Paladin is a responsible and upright person who won't hand out death sentences willy nilly. Bear in mind D&D games are not set in the post-Enlightment era; they're set in pseudo-Medieval worlds where stealing a horse is a valid cause for the death sentence. These are brutal settings, and 21st century perceptions on Law and Good don't really have a place there.

Paladins aren't police officers who have to arrest suspects and send them to a criminal court where they'll be determined guilty or not guilty. They have every right to determine a person's crimes and mete out a fitting punishment on the spot. You think Ned Stark sent that deserter to municipal court before giving him a viking haircut? No; because Ned had every authority to make that call then and there.

Paladins can summarily execute people whenever they see fit. The "Lawful Good" part comes from them being very particular about when they see fit.

>>49668084
The type of legalistic, procedural justice where officials mediate and mete out all punishment is a mostly modern thing. The Paladin is the authority, and by Gygax himself, it is justice for a Paladin to slay his foes.

>>49667091
Inb4 someone posts the demon femdom loli

>>49666636

Our Shadowrun group doesn't even let buildings survive. Only one building has survived our presence, and that's because the demolition decker didn't go inside.

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>>49667482
9/10 would tenderly force into exhausting shuddering orgasm

>>49666636
>Letting your enemies walk away after defeating them
>You don't ACTUALLY do this, right?
I don't.

If they didn't want to die, they wouldn't have raised arms against us. That's a fact. Suicide-by-adventurer is all the rage these days.

>>49668084
Paladins are not fantasy cops. That would be the town guard, who are still not really cops.

>>49668142
It's because on the internet, you can say all the stupid shit that would get you spanked or shot if you said it in real life.

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>>49668270

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>>49666753

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>>49668462
Such shitty bait deserves a shitty image reply

>>49666636
No honor in a fight that can be avoided.

>>49668534
Unless your honor demands you fight.

>>49668534

Said no tournament goer ever.

>>49668544
You have no honor. Like a woman!

>>49668580
There are times when a man must fight.

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>>49666636
All the time in the hope of them getting good or hiring/recruiting someone more worthy. I was promised a place in Valhalla when I fall in a glorious combat but alas I'm cursed to be the greatest fighter there is and to never lose.

>>49666636
Sure I do.

This improves the chance that I will walk away after my enemies defeat me.

>>49668345

This.

I don't understand why people think modern common law practices are the norm in settings roughly analogous to the 11th century.

>>49668938
It's another way to fuck paladins, basically.

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>>49669137

Feels like it.

>GM: The bandit chief falls to his knees before you in surrender.
>Paladin: "Bandit Chief, you have committed crimes of desertion, murder, and theft of property. I, Lord Commander Orderius, hereby sentence you to death." *Removes Bandit Head*
>GM: You have executed an unarmed prisoner. You fall

>>49668926
>Implying the villains will hold themselves to the same standard you hold yourself to
This ain't a saturday morning cartoon, mate (unless the DM says it is).

>>49666636
Allowing a few enemies to flee can sometimes cause the whole formation to break as they see they can escape. Of course you chase these guys down with cavalry later.

>>49669233
It's precisely because it's NOT a saturday morning cartoon I'm playing in that I try to stick to that standard: the other side isn't run by backstab-happy Disney villains made of lies and treachery, it's people with different motivations.

sometimes. depends on what sort of enemy they were, you know?

>>49669358

This is one of the dumbest things I've ever heard.

Being willing to kill enemies who extend you the courtesy of allowing you to flee doesn't make you " backstab-happy Disney villains made of lies and treachery". It makes you dangerously pragmatic.

What planet do you live on where the bad guys have to be just as noble as the good guys to avoid moustache-twirling tropes?

>>49669416
Not live on, play in, and the answer in short is "a pre-napoleonic one". Where there's (as yet, mostly) no mass conscription, no total war, no march to the sea, no concentration camps, no nationalism, but lots of royal houses all distantly related to one another and mercenary bands who have fought for different sides in the past and therefore both nobles and commanders extend one another some courtesy even in war.

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>>49666636
Justice girl did nothing wrong!

>>49669542
You are misguided. Those dudes totally killed the shit out of each other. Only some high ranking dudes got spared because they were more valuable in trade rather than dead.

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>>49669542
>and the answer in short is "a pre-napoleonic one"
You know that prior to the Napoleonic era/mass use of artillery against infantry targets, most casualties in war fell during a rout, right?

Pic related, the French were about to be torn a new asshole until the king of Aragon died, causing a mass rout among his army and allies. The French, of course, weren't polite enough to let everyone run away. Not even the king shouting "I am the king!" was enough for them to give a fuck.

>>49669566
Yes, they totally killed the shit out of each other. Sometimes. I'm not denying that. But at other times, as with the condottieri (ca 1300-1500 was their height IIRC), mercenary companies were so common - and so liable to be hired on the other side later - that several "battles" had no casualties because the mercenary companies just paraded in front of each other or negotiated a "victor" by head-counting, knowing they might get hired by the other side or be fighting along the "enemy" mercenaries companies next month.

>>49669666
On the other hand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Zagonara

>A number of famous Italian condottieri of the 15th century took part in the battle. The only condottiero who died in the battle was Lodovico degli Obizzi, who fell off his horse and suffocated in the mud.[1]

>>49666636
I ACTUALLY do that. just so happens I'm playing the setting equivalent of a "Jew".
>Beat enemy to an inch of his life
>Loot him
>Let him go
>Enemy comes back for payback
>Beat and loot him again.
>????
>Profit

>>49666636
no kill them there and be done with it

>>49669682
Dafuq? Seriously? I swear I've seen this as a joke in half a dozen sci-fi settings that enlightened superior future species don't bother actually showing up to shoot each other, they just calculate a winner (and sometimes the losers go into suicide booths or something). Now you're telling me someone really did that? Like, ever? This really sounds like a ridiculously sensible approach to war.

>>49669682
>Italian condottieri
A joke even by the standards of their own time. Italian warfare was monopolized by condotierri, who were more interested in earning money than actually fighting. That's why they usually fought with outdated weapons, made sure not to kill eachother too hard and sometimes changed sides in the middle of a battle depending on who paid them more.

>>49669358
>>49668926
I really wish my players understood this.

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>>49669233
Generally, if a general who doesn't kill his prisoners surrenders he will have the benefit of the doubt and a much higher chance of not dying when the enemies take him prisoner.

If the enemies take a general prisoner who is infamous for killing all the prisoners and those who surrendered to him... do you really think he would get the same treatment as the first general?

>>49669739
It was not sensible.

See >>49669803

>>49669803
>fought with outdated weapons, made sure not to kill eachother too hard and sometimes changed sides in the middle of a battle depending on who paid them more.
AnCap warfare at its finest.

>>49669845
>>49669867
If AnCap warfare means people making sure not to kill each other too hard in war, I'm all for it.

>>49669882
And they said the NAP would never work.

>>49669839
Wasn't really how it worked. It was pretty much entirely up to the ego of whoever captured you.

>>49669897
>Wasn't really how it worked.
What does that even mean? Are you talking about a particular game you played?

>>49669915
Historically, whether or not you executed your prisoners was almost entirely the discretion of the commanding officer and their ego. Letting too many people go tended to make you look like a pussy, while killing everyone made you have a reputation like Vlad. It was a balancing act, really.

>>49669942
What if you're not playing historical fiction?

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>>49669882
>tfw taxation is theft so you hire a personal army of condotierri to fight against the state
>tfw the state pays them exactly one cent per capita more so they loot your house instead

>>49666636
Does it still count if we kneecap them?

>>49669232

Heh, one knight in my game used Power Word Pain to punish the wicked in similar situation. Very effective and demoralizing for everyone around.

>>49669962
>not reserving at least one recreational nuclear warhead for home defence
asking for it desu

>>49668162
Ned is also a Lord; he WAS the Law. A Paladin is not often the Lord of the land your party happen to be in, and Ned was not a Paladin. Ned was the rightful authority, and the one to rightfully mete out justice.

>>49669839
Like Banastre Tarlton who was famous in the revolutionary war for slaughtering surrendered men and was later hunted down and killed by upset Appalachians

>>49670000
Paladins are divinely appointed warriors of justice. They are beholden to only the ideal of justice and not to any king or land. They have *more* authority on these matters than the typical feudal lord.

>>49670019
>They are beholden to only the ideal of justice and not to any king or land.
What setting? In D&D they are LG, which is normally interpreted to mean "beholden to" legitimate authorities, which may not be their order in a given land.

>>49670031
Get with the times, nerd. No alignment restrictions in 5e, and paladins come in 5 flavors already- Devotion for the classic godly smite, Ancients for fey green knight and preservation of goodness and light, Vengeance to be edgy or Batmanish but still legit, Crown to serve the king and letter of the law, and Oathbreaker for any others that fail those.

>>49670031
>>49670051
Even before that, Paladins never had to treat every single lord they met as if they were the Paladin's master. Respect to their station, perhaps, but the call of justice is higher than any court.

>>49670031

Paladins are LG, but they're also paladins. They are the legitimate authorities in most cases by virtue of their class, rather than their alignment.

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>>49668462
Based Mr. A.

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>>49670076

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>>49668462
>Implying the victim can never call for mercy

>>49668084
>Paladins are the embodiment of FAIRNESS
No they aren't. They literally exist to be judge, jury and executioner

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>>49670083
cry moar, relativist scum

So much hate for paladins, for a board that orgasms over the imperial guard from 40k.
>b-b-but they purge the heretics and fight for glorious emprah, they're different!

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>>49670150
>criminals can't be reformed
Boy, go choke on a bag of dicks

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>>49670172

I don't really see any hate. Just a couple people sperging about how Paladins should be doormats who delegate their jobs to NPCs.

>>49670172
That's because 40k Imperium is just the best of a bad lot. Paladins are supposed to be a cut above genocide, not merely killing a million innocents to the other guy's ten millions.

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>>49670183
I literally didn't even say that.

That comic is about not simply forgiving the bad actions of an individual because "society failed him", as if he had no free will or control over himself. Individuals are responsible for their own actions. We are not predetermined cogs rolling down a hill by the laws of motion. We have volition, and responsibility for our choices.

Additionally to your point, however, just because someone changes their behavior and "reforms" does not wipe out their past behavior. They will forever be criminals if they have committed a crime, but if they pay for their actions, we need not condemn them the rest of their lives, depending on the severity of their crime.

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>>49670258
Mr A is all about that
>kill any criminal ever as soon as they commit the crime
>doesn't matter what crime it was
>because you should never fucking compromise
Screw that guy with a fucking rusty shovel

>>49670005
> was later hunted down and killed by upset Appalachians

A lovely story, but according to wikipedia he died at home in 1833 at the ripe old age of 78 after a fairly successful political career, obtaining the rank of general, a baronet and campaigning on the behalf of slavery as a economic institution.

>>49667431
Look how much better we are than the rest of the world, though.

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>>49670306
>defending criminals

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>>49667091
It's scum like you that make it not safe to walk the streets at night.

Someone needs to take a stand against loli rapists.

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>>49670355
>an enraged husband kills the guy who fucked his wife
>he would regret it later, except he is killed by Mr Asshole first

>>49668142
There is no middle ground. It's either liberal lies, or a system that works. The very concept of a middle ground was made up by liberals so that they still won.

Rolled 937 (1d1000)

Most recent session had us fighting a villain who had escaped from us a few sessions ago. When he dropped to about ~10% hp, he exclaimed loudly "No! This cannot end here! Everyone knows that the third fight is the climatic one." We felt bad for him, but he was trying to kill us, so we continued to attack. He got downed with a loud exclamation of "No! It can't be." Party member quickly frisked him for money and we left the body there. Later on, our monk was talking to her god, who told her that he had not gotten the dudes spirit. Cue us realizing that he had faked his death and that our one guy hadn't noticed that he was alive.

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>>49670306
>>kill any criminal ever as soon as they commit the crime
Nope. provide a source, pussy.

He isn't afraid to kill someone who is an imminent threat, and he won't try to save someone who he doesn't deem worthy, but he will always try to bring criminals to justice first. Sometimes Justice means the death penalty though.

So cry more about it if you want to you criminal-sympathizing anime-loving weeb pussy.

>>49666636
I do, but not before taking all their shit, up to and including the clothes off their backs. Even if all I do with it is walk five steps to a precipice and toss it all away and/or effectively condemn them to death in sub-zero weather.
Shouldn't have stepped to me, motherfucker.

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>>49670383
>murderers aren't worthy of the death penalty
kys, friendo

>>49670383
>hurrr he would've regretted it if we gave him the chance!
>durr it's not his fault he's a murderer!! we should be more understanding of spouse murderers!

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>>49670451
>>49670490

>>49666636
Nope.

I convince them that I will let them go and then kill them kung fu hustle style with a sneak attack.

This makes sure they don't struggle so I avoid additional risks with their last moments.

>>49670490
>adulterers aren't worthy of the death penatly
And who are you so righteous that even when imitating the most evil acts of men you claim absolute superiority?
The last monster.

>>49670490
If a gypsy tried to rob me and I killed him there and then, would I deserve death?

>>49666788
>Wuxia
>The genre where MCs kill whole clans for an offence going full removal mode.

>>49670537
In general yes, but not for that act.

>>49670537
There should be a standing reward for killing gypsies.

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>this fucking thread again
everyone here, both the objectivists and relativists, should have their dicks cut off for contributing to this argument for the millionth time.

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>>49670537
>>49670535

>>49670451
No mercy or pity? Not human, Mr. A is Mr. Automaton, an interesting thought experiment with no practical application in human social structure.

Were his actions to become known he would inevitably be more despised than the criminals he hunts as his lack of human reaction and empathic response would single him out as an autistic error to be removed and shunned from proper social confidence.

His sole resort would be to being utilized as a tool against 'criminals' by a tyrannical government. Being 'allowed' to hunt down criminals until he realizes that the very people he works for are simply a larger sort of criminal who simply have control of the legal system.

This information is likely to break a 'Mr. A' leading him on a rampage to attempt to replace the goverment with his own powerful rule of law, a movement that would be exploited by revolutionary idealists and ambitious of all sorts to serve as his aides and administrators till he is either disposed of once the messiest part of the revolution or he realizes the treacherous intents and mistrust they have for him.

He either dies to a knife in the back, or dies a genocidal tyrant having finally realized the fundamental truth of humanity, 'they are all criminals.'

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>>49670658
Pretty aptly put

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>>49670603
>I contribute nothing but I still feel superior to both sides
If you're triggered, you're free to retreat to your Safe Space.

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>Relativists
>Objectivists
Fuck all of ya'll, Existentialist Paladins are where its at

>>49670755
Nah mate. Counter-revolutionism and superversionism.

It really depends on the character and situation but yes I've beaten foes and let them live.

Happened the other day actually in a SR 4th edd game im in. Playing a SURGEd troll adept. Swiped a shipment from not! Mitgard after some other runners stole it. Turned out it was full of SURGEd kids in cryo pods instead of mcguffin metal like we hoped. All memory wiped with mcguffin metal colars. Start canvassing the undercity to find the parents. The survivors from the other team track me down like i hoped. Adept um down and save the last to question. Spills they took a job from the humanis polis but had no idea what was really in the truck. Brief standoff with a cranial bomb before letting him slip cause it wasn't worth the risk it was the area bomb kind, he was just a small fry and with the rest of his team down he was bailing on the job. Hoped he'd lead me to a bigger fish but he noped out back to Seattle. When i find whoever kidnapped those kids and tried to sell them like meat you can bet your ass they won't be walking away from it

>>49670658

I want to piss off my DM.

What God would I need to worship in order to make a Mr. A based Paladin?

>>49670914
God of machines and automata

>>49670451
>the time it takes to save angel could make the difference if you live or die
>...but talking is a free action. Now shut up and listen to my monologue

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>>49670914
No gods, just ice

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>>49669232
Fuck GMs like this. I hate playing Paladins with new GMs for precisely this reason. I'm a Paladin. Smite Evil is one of my abilities, not Forgive Evil And Teach It To Be Good.

You're evil, you've opposed me, and nothing about you indicates that you're willing to leave the innocent alone: Letting you go means you might do more harm later.

The only time I spare foes who've willingly committed harm to the innocent when I'm a Paladin has been when I can get my hands on a Helm of Opposite Alignment, whereupon I give them a choice: Wear the helmet and who you are dies, or die by my hand. If you're second-type Neutral, you'd better hope the Cleric's Detect Good spell switches you from Neutral to Good, not Evil, because I don't carry a second helm.

>>49670914
Helm?

>>49666636
Why not? If I beat them once, I can do it again.
And this way, I don't have to build up my relationship with my antagonist all over again.

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>>49669232
>Slaughter millions
>Just say you're really, REALLY sorry when you get caught

>>49666636
I've never had players do this.
It's to the point where I have to set up ridiculous over the top escape routes if I want any reoccurring villains.

>>49666636
Fuck outta here what's-your-name from AKG, no one likes you.

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>>49671823
>she will never be your gf
>you'll never surprise her with front row seats for a state execution
>you will never slowly wrap your arm around her shoulder and let her lean on your chest as political dissidents burn to death before your very eyes
Why even live?

>>49668218
>demon femdom loli
Suzuka-sama is not the enemy, you filthy heathen!

>>49669942
Not killing prisoners means more people would put you into the 'spare for good PR' side of the equation.

>>49666636
My guy fights for the sake of fighting. He generally kills foes on the grounds of giving them an honourable death or kills them in the moment of battle but beyond hat doesn't give a fuck. The only exception is when he gives someone his word that they will be safe (eg. telling a defeated enemy that they will be spared if they do something such as telling the party intel) when it comes to his word nothing else matters, he will turn on the party before turning on his word.

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>>49671823
Chelsea a best.

>>49672102
>My guy fights for the sake of fighting.
No he fights for the sake of killing.
If you truly valued the art of fighting you would hold nothing back when seriously opposed, but let defeated foes go and encourage them to become stronger so they could give you a better fight when next you meet.

>>49670031
And if that doesn't go over well with the local or regional authority?

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>>49672187
never compromise

>>49670019
How is that relating to Ned not being a Paladin? I don't see the Lord of Light making his rotting head come back alive.

>>49672187
A paladin should respect that order exists, but isn't shackled by rules and laws that he considers to fall short of his own ideals.

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>>49672123
Not even best Night Raid, let alone best in general.

>>49672237
And when the local authority decide they've had enough of fucking Paladins deciding that they're a higher authority than the state and just up and fucking kill them/kick them out?

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>>49669555
I hope one day I will have the convictions of Seiryu.

>>49672284
If the DM is worth his salt there won't be any paladins at that point. Ignoring local authority while pretending to respect it and answering only to yourself is not Lawful, it's Chaotic telling everyone OoC that it's lawful and expecting them to belive you. Unless we have unconventional paladins who don't need no alignment restrictions.

>>49669555
Funny way to misspell everything, anon.
Hell, lollipop girl was head and shoulders above her.

>>49666752
Mercy is for the harmless

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>>49672284

>>49672275
She's the fucking Ringo is what you're saying?

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>Group goes into battle against a group of bandits
>My paladin leaves one alive for questioning
>Dude tells us everything he knows
>I give him a few coins and tell him to sail somewhere far away and live the life of an honest man; roll to convince, success
>He thanks me profusely for sparing his life, tears in his eyes, and runs off
>Wizard lols and throws a Firebolt up his ass, killing him instantly

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>>49670603
you're so smart

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>>49670658
>no one is guilty
>everyone is guilty
Spoken like a true moral relativist faggot. You must think yourself very smart.
K. Y. S. senpai

I never got why people think morality is set in stone. Which human culture have always been in the right about morals? Not even the same person can believe the same for all his life.

>>49674498
Exactly; but there are constants, and things where certain actions that are considered "cruel" are just inefficient when compared to a cleaner alternative. Eating an animal alive might be faster, but it will still be kicking and might knock a tooth out. Killing it quickly and cleanly will leave the meat more tender and less likely to harm you. This Anon personally holds that there is, infact, a quantifiable "Useless Wrongdoing" that's a lot more specific that some of these /pol/lacks have decided is the case.

I'll spare almost anybody's life unless they do their damnedest to make me kill them. If I slap your shit, spare your life, and tie you up to deliver to the nearest constabulary instead of shoving a sharp bit of metal in your face, then don't expect to receive that same consideration if you attack me a second time.

>>49671519

>Smite Evil is one of my abilities, not Forgive Evil And Teach It To Be Good.

This. I don't get where this meme where Paladins must be social workers came from

>>49671519
That's literally not how detect alignment works though you shitfuck.

>>49674628
Useless wrongdoing may be a good way to separate some thing as clear moral wrongs, but the idea that something is only 'wrong' insofar as it is inefficient is clearly a poor way to build an ethical code.

>>49675190
Because being an avatar of justice does not mean you've leave to mete out vengance. You can't un-kill someone, without spending a LOT of gold on it. Who are you, exactly, to say their role is up and spent? Pirates have come together alongside militiamen and become true, real servicemen in a nations navy before. Giving someone a chance at redemption should they choose it, should they decide that they would submit to your mercy and ask for you to deliver justice, means they don't want to die and are willing to accept any cost you place upon their actions, knowing full well death may be the punishment. The sheer fact that reformed prisoners actually happen is evidence alone you're a fucking retard and haven't the barest braincells to scrape together.

>>49675621
True, but it's a good basis on which to build off of, and a rather sound argument against "Amoral" crimes, such as Homosexuality or Loitering. Killing, for the sake of societal security and trust, has to be outlawed in any enduring community, but the necessity of killing to survive cannot be denied, and in nature, the most successful kill is always the fastest, and the one that causes the least amount of suffering to those afflicted. For example, a Box Jellyfish may kill its prey almost instantly, and yet gains nothing when it kills a human, as said human is rarely capable of being consumed by the Jellyfish, and in some cases results in the death if the Jellyfish. A spiderbite if the more deadly sort will rapidly kill most creatures the right size for the spider, but the prolonged agony encountered by the Humans is, frankly, useless and avails the spider nothing.

>>49666636
I'd let them live, but the Wizard says to kill them.

I don't make a habit of angering the man who could turn me into a newt and make me forget I was ever anything else.

That's me - more afraid of the man standing behind me than I am of anything that could be in front of me.

>>49668462
>>49670076
>>49670150
>>49670451
Wow. Reading these reminds me of the Chick Tracts. That should be what those comics are called, "The Objectivist Chick Tracts".

>>49676116
Yep, pretty astute observation. About as hollow and masterbatory as them as well.

>>49666636
instead of just outright killing i just like to cripple them

break their kneecaps, cut tendons, break/remove fingers, etc

>>49666636
in my gurps campaign(which took place in post apocolypse earthlike planet), we'd usually kill an entire squad of dudes whilst leaving one dude alive. one guy would pluck his eyeballs out with psionics, we'd strip him to his skivvies, give him a canteen of water, and tell him to walk

>>49675672

>Who are you, exactly, to say their role is up and spent?

An officially-ordained divine warrior given the authority to mete out executions by both the gods and king. That's what Paladins are, anon. Seriously, there's like, zero ambiguity to this.

Stop projecting your undergrad understanding of criminal philosophy onto this. Modern concerns of social work and "reforming criminals" are totally inapplicable to a game set in a world where stealing a horse gets you hanged.

Guess what happens when the Paladin turns the bandit chief to the "proper authorities"? The authorities ask what he did, the Paladin says he's a bandit, and the mayor or magistrate or lord or whatever orders the dude's head cut off. Because that's where these games are set, and I'll be damned if I'm gonna take a leaf from you book and turn a fantasy RPG into Enlightenment Simulator. Turning over criminals accomplishes nothing but a short walk to the nearest town.

>>49676781
>An officially-ordained divine warrior given the authority to mete out executions by both the gods and king. That's what Paladins are, anon.
Literally only one god had to give approval out of pantheons of often self-interested gods with limitations. Maybe your setting is different but that's not generally true.

>>49676817

>Literally only one god had to give approval out of pantheons of often self-interested gods with limitations.

Yeah, but that god is Lawful Good, meaning by the cosmic laws of D&D he is objectively right in basically everything.

I'm not saying this makes sense or isn't retarded; just saying what's what.

But regardless, nobody under the Lawful Good alignment is under any obligation to give prisoners a second or third or fourth or fifth chance just because they say "oh I'll get it right this time!". Again, it's a medieval fantasy setting; these are not kind places to live.

>>49676845
Speaking truthfully, the dude doesn't even have to have an Evil alignment for this to be fair. Various shades of neutral are also acceptable targets for a summary slaying (though not smite evil) if they are something like a bandit who makes his living off of robbing and pillaging.

>>49676781
I wasn't aware that every setting was deeply historically accurate, down to the strict laws, economic arrangements, and cultural institutions that deeply tie people to land?

A band of roving "adventurers" with no land, lord, or charter? Sounds like a bunch of highwaymen and outlaws to me!

>>49676864

Honestly, I much prefer it when the Good alignments are forced to adapt to the more brutal aspects of a medieval fantasy setting than simply using Good as the "21st Century" alignment.

Killing a man on the spot for murdering someone, or stealing horses/treasure, or even for deliberatlely disobeying a direct military order for selfish purposes a la Janos Slynt is totally in line with a Lawful Good character in a typical fantasy setting.

>>49676845
>Yeah, but that god is Lawful Good
Plus or minus an alignment step. Also, D&D often stays from strictly medieval societies, and few DMs enforce law that way, as evidenced by the hordes of living rogue and theif players.

>>49669682
>fell off his horse and suffocated in the mud
Wow, that's actually a pretty awful way to die.

>>49676927

>as evidenced by the hordes of living rogue and theif players

I usually justify this in PC-level rogues are very rare and are mostly tolerated because, since they're PCs, are some of the few individuals adequetely prepared to handle the local wildlife.

While I don't like to explicitly go for historical accuracy in my fantasy setting laws, I do like to go for thematic accuracy. I will not make the Paladin fall for executing the bandit chief because A) that's his right as a Paladin and B) if they handed the guy over, then he'd still get executed.

>>49676975
>While I don't like to explicitly go for historical accuracy in my fantasy setting laws, I do like to go for thematic accuracy.

AKA
>I can exclude things things from history as I like because it's only ~~thematically accurate~~ but when other people do that it's badwrongfun.

>>49676975
>I will not make the Paladin fall for executing the bandit chief
And that's fine. Given the circumstances, I'd at least consider it. If some armored asshole walks up with a homeless pulp in tow and claims he worships a holy fire bird and that this guy stole his horse, we've got zones of truth, scrying, and alignment detections to do. Yes it's a lot of paperwork, but human life is worth it. Most likely, a fitting punishment is in order for a fitting crime. If, however, that guy is rampaging through our city murdering disarmed and unwilling opponents and cawing at the Sun, we're going to have a problem with him. But that's my DM style.

An old character of mine had a habit of sparing people he fought and scarring their cheek.

His reasoning was that the scar would be a mark of shame until they defeated my character. Once they've defeated my character, the scar would become a mark of pride.

He died during the campaign's epilogue. A crowd of swordsmen with scarred cheeks gathered outside his castle, he addressed them them as if they were his children, then he leaped into the crowd with his sword in his hand. His last words before he died were "I'm so proud of you all".

It's pretty cheesy, but it was one of my first characters so it's close to my heart.

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>Not being Chaotic Good so you can kill, steal, and pillage as long as you do it to the enemies of "society"
>Not wearing sandals and armor from antiquity so you can claim a measure of amorality in your heroism
>Being a "hero" instead of a "hero"

I bet you guys don't even ride chariots.

>>49676894
Doubly so if they are rich; a theme that can and has popped up in ny campaigns. The party started getting hunted down by the Crown because they were Rich.

>>49676894
>Sounds like a bunch of highwaymen and outlaws to me!
well, yeah

At best of times they're more analogous to mercenaries, but adventurers are shady motherfuckers.

>>49672137
Forcing defeated foes to live with the humiliation of being defeated is dishonourable. A competent enemy deserves a noble death, not the humiliation of defeat. Besides he generally kills people during the battle, holding nothing back generally means that the fight will end when someone dies.

>>49671957
Jerk my dick to Seiryu all day every day.
Please rape me with Justice, Seiryu Ubiquitous!

>>49666636
Hell yeah

Hopefully they'll either come back and try to kill me or I kick their ass so much that they beg to be my students

And then try to kill me

It's a win win situation desu

>>49678058
Glad she died tbqh, she was one of the worst.

>>49676817
That's true of 4e, but in 5e the Paladin gets his power from an oath and in every other edition the Paladin is empowered by righteousness itself.

>>49672284

Then it's a state that has started a religious purge of a Good aligned god and can be pretty safely assumed to be now a Lawful Evil state.

>>49672399

Paladins don't answer only to themselves, they answer to the god they literally talk to every single day.

>>49666817
My group has befriended an Illithid

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>>49672284

>>49666697
I once captured a vampire loli boss and bring her back to our own boss.
I was hopping for some political bullshit since she was double crossed by the real BBEG.
Instead our boss burn her right away without a second thought.

>>49670451
>brow beats a terrified, wounded woman to tray and get her to verbally condemn a man to death while she watches
Wow, what a hero.

>>49667243
Except you know the culprit is actually innocent.

>>49668084
>The point of the paladin is not to be judge, jury, and executioner

Except that's entirely the point. If he wasn't, why would he be able to detect evil, have high wisdom, and walk around heavily armed?

He's literally built to spot wrongdoers, use his wisdom to think of a proper punishment, then use force of arms to enforce that punishment.

Often, that means the Paladin will simply kill the murderous bandits instead of wasting everyone's time dragging them back to town to be hanged.

And since Paladin's lose their powers if they abuse them, all you need to do to check if a Paladin is corrupt is ask him to Lay on Hands someone to show that he isn't smiting innocents.

If the law decrees a bandit must hang, and a Paladin finds bandits, then he'll get the rope himself.

>>49666636

>GM is trying to run a heroic campaign and/or doesn't punish showing mercy
I let enemies walk away

>GM is running a gritty campaign and/or punishes you for showing mercy
I kill them

Personally, if my party shows mercy to a villain I try to always have it come back to reward them somehow later down the line. Don't see why I shouldn't let them be heroic if that's what they seem to want to do.

>>49674056

What is it with Wizards and getting a bug up their ass about anything still being alive when the dice stop rolling? I have never seen a wizard player that doesn't lose their fucking shit if an enemy flees or surrenders.

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>>49689975
Well I were a wizard who poured years of my life into my occupation, sacrificing my time, money, energy, and any hope of ever getting laid naturally for effectiveness and proficiency, I'ld sure be salty as fuck if some no-name, no-future monsters or bandits deny me one attainable thing that can grant me even slight pleasure anymore,
which is to use my magical powers for massive slaughter.

Pick related, it's an angry, bloodthirsty wizard, being denied his right to horrifically murder a bitch.