Throwing weapons always suck. It doesn't matter the system.

They're actually commonly used in broken strategies. Dart throwers were OP in 2e, and in 3rd edition, poison-coated shuriken were terrifying when combined with a method to mitigate the costs of poison.

>>49647882

Mechanically, outside strategies such as >>49647979, dart weapons are better as ranged regular attacks, like throwing axes, or distraction weapons.

Shuriken weren't used as weapons of killing, but as distractions against pursuers. Most of the techniques for throwing them involve turning quickly and chaining movements for grabbing them from hidden pockets and throwing as many as possible to dissuade attackers. Pursuers get cut up, mostly just painfully but possibly badly, and those that take cover have bought you a few seconds of running time, plus taught them to take cover when make quick turning around movements.

In a ranged fight, arrows, heavier thrown weapons, or slings are much more damaging. Of course, shuriken or throwing knives don't do much to armored targets, but the again if you're being chased by an armored person, then you can definitely outrun, outmaneuver, and out-stamina them.

>>49647882
Because in real life they weren't that great unless you have something like a sling or atlatl. At that point, you're basically an archer before decent bows were invented, so if you've got good bows, you've got no real reason to use thrown weapons as real weapons and not gimmicky shit like what >>49648082 says.

>>49647882
The best explanation I can immediately think of is that, logically, things like throwing knives require a significant amount of skill and practice to use effectively, while still not being especially lethal.

So, in games, this translates to high initial skill investment for shitty damage. Which makes sense from a realism standpoint, but makes them pretty useless from a gameplay standpoint.

So, the simplest way I can think of to improve throwing weapons is to either lessen that initial investment or increase the reward you get from using them.

>>49647882

Nothing. They suck in real life, they suck in fantasy. All is right with the world.

>>49647882
Exalted 3e Solar Thrown is terrifying, literally what are you on about? >>49647882

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>>49648157
central african cultures did have armies with full on unassisted throwing weapons

and while its true those cultures also didn't use advanced bodyarmor I'd say the weapons in pic related would serve as proper "main weapon" and give them a mechanical boost in most rpg's

>>49647882
>rubbish throwing in shadowrun
>troll adept with Throw Anything power says Hi and kills you with a thrown chopstick

>Nothing. They suck in real life, they suck in fantasy. All is right with the world.

This right here. Not everything has to be perfectly mechanically equal all the time. Gamist overbalancing for its own sake not only hurts verisimiltude but it makes the gameplay itself boring and bland. Thrown weapons should be a weaker niche option in games if they're a weaker niche option in reality.

>>49649191
Yes let me tell you about how my build made specifically to get the most out of a particular niche is still inferior to not just owning a fucking gun opportunity cost wise, but isn't even the best expression of Stupid Troll Adept Tricks.

>>49649325
This is profoundly retarded in any setting assuming magic or any paranormal ability and only mildly retarded in a system that attempts to actually model reality worth a damn.

Here's your (you), try to contain yourself.

>>49649166
The problem with throwing your weapons at your enemies is that then they have the weapons and you don't.

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>>49647882

There is only one effective throwing weapon. Grenades, yo.

>>49649354
You wouldn't throw your only weapon away. And if you're throwing a throwing weapon at somebody, then they're probably already armed and won't need to pick up.

>>49648082
>if you're being chased by an armored person, then you can definitely outrun, outmaneuver, and out-stamina them.
>laughing_champion_fighters.jpg

Throwing your knife works with no special effort in Deathwatch.

Your SB can easily hit 12 and the SM 'knife' is a d10 damage weapon with a bit of pen. It might not measure up to a lascannon but it functions in the silent weapon with some range niche without being godlessly expensive expensive xp wise.

There's also Feat of Strength if you really need this knife to unfuck your scouting mission.

Anything thrown can be used to much greater effect in hand. Throwing knives have next to no power behind them, when compared to a straight-up stabbing motion. At the time of impact there is no weight driving a thrown knife forward. Same with axes. Never underestimate how much force a driving weight will impart.

>>49647882
>Shadowrun
If throwing weapons suck in SR, that's on you.

>>49647882
>always
>doesn't matter the system

Legend, Fantasy Craft, Shinobigami, Tenra Bansho Zero, Ryuutama, Tokyo Nova, Apocalypse World and Make You Kingdom beg to differ.

obligatory knife vs nuke
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNhYJgDdCu4

>>49647882
Throw fire at them
Fire makes things good

Small thrown weapons are more of a trick like pointed out many times. If you feel like they're only implemented to be a weapon in your system suggest your DM to use them to give maluses (make the opponent flinch/loose time to dodge) when thrown as part of the attack of a nimble character that's more about duelling than running away.
Or if you want them to kill shit but retain realism, play a high lethality system where not everybody is in heavy armor (like traveller where your HP are your CON score).
If neither of thoses options appeal you, you're a faggot who wants to use bullshit cyborg shurikens to take down armored hulks. That's fine, just make an archer and ask your GM to refluff the bow as bullshit shurikens.

>>49647882
>Exalted
Thrown weapons are pretty good in exalted, though

>>49649992

They are. Whenever its 2e or 3e they're solid.

I dunno WTF he's on about. In 3e they lack a good damage adder, but so does archery.

>>49649166
How is this different from throwing an axe or a javelin before charging?
It's a one-shot that won't disable the enemy, but will slow their charge, or fuck with their shield.

The only time I have seen someone make good use of thrown weapons is this series. There is someone playing as an ork and taking advantage of his high strength to throw boulders and shit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gB5rc6H3i8k

>>49649333
>implying you don't specifically build for gun usage as well

Play a game that has good bows.

Write the stats for a bow on your sheet.
Instead of bow, write 'shuriken'.

Now you have a good throwing weapon.

>>49649325

Yes, that's why I perfectly simulate real life because my knife throwing guy can't possibly be so good at throwing knives he's practically a magical being at that point or juggling four knives in the air that boomerang back to me.

Here's your (you), I hope you're happy.

>>49649945
>bullshit shurikens
would these count as poisoned shuriken?
Since technically they would dissolve and get manure into the body
I don't think that's healthy

>>49650411
Pretty much the ultimate anwser to most questions to implement any kind of snowflake weapon.

>>49650477
The point of weapons is rarely to be healthy to opponents.

>>49650483
I never understand why the idea of refluffing/reskinning seems to blow the minds of so many people.

Throwing weapons are nuts in Fantasy Craft. I think that they would be in the top three for "highest damage character builds", and even then you can have a competent throwing weapons user without gimping them in other areas.

>>49647979
Ah, the good old 2E dart thrower. Did you know that in 2E darts got both the dexterity bonus to hit and the strength bonuses to hit and damage, and also had the highest number of attacks per round of any standard weapon? An Elven Fighter with 18/00 STR, 19 DEX and a dart specialization would have +6 to hit and damage with each dart, and can throw 4 per round. This increases to 5 at level 7 and 6 at level 13. Dart specialists were hilariously lethal, especially when magic started getting involved. A high level dart specialist who gets Haste cast on them and quaffs a Potion of Storm Giant Strength brewed by the Mage would be chucking 12 darts a round which deal 1d3+12 damage each.

It was so unintuitive and overpowered that the infamously unbalanced Player's Option series has optional rules dedicated exclusively to weakening them. The subsection in Player's Option: Combat and Tactics containing those rules is even titled "The 16th-level Dart Specialist."

>>49650543
Because the profusion of ways to build your desired particular brand of gish (prestige classes, hybrid classes, gestalt classes, archetypes, ect) in some games makes people think everything should have a publisher approved way to be played.
Also there are two cases where this scenario doesn't play as nice (although, very easy to avoid).
Case 1. The guy really wants to use a katana, not for the style but because he believes katanas to be superior to sword in every way. He'll then beg for special treatment.
Case 2. Player is a sneaky munchkin and asks for his bow to be reskinned to shurikens. He'll then proceed to argue against his free hand to do something else at the same time.

Fantasy Craft

>all generic ranged feats work with Hurled weapons
>there is a 1-to-1 ratio of category specific feats for Hurled Weapons and other ranged weapons, all are comparable
>Hurled weapons have greater variety of damage and qualities, with bows only consistently beating them in range
>taking the second feat in the Hurled feat line lets you treat any weapon with the Hurl quality (which is a decently cheap upgrade for anything) like Captain America's shield, having it come back to you when you miss

The Soldier can, at level 3, can throw 4 one-handed weapons every other turn while doing something on the alternate turn (Quick Draw, Angry Hornet, Blackened Sky, Hurled Basics). For the cost of standing still and taking a -5 to the attack roll, you could throw 4 javelins for 1d8+(2xSTR) each. Or, (with Quick Draw, Angry Hornet, Hurled Basics/Mastery) you can throw 3 two-handed weapons by using every action on your turn and throw 2 on the alternate. For only taking a -2 to two of the attack rolls on a turn, you could throw large rocks for 1d10+(2xSTR) each, which ignore 4 DR and have the enemy roll against two statuses each time they are hit.

A one-shot weapon is inherently going to suck in any game where you are expected to be able to take a lot of hits before falling over.

In real life, a thrown spear could easily end a fight because being hit even once is a huge deal. Even a throwing knife will injure an unarmed man badly enough that he's likely to be at a severe disadvantage.

So, the first step to having throwing weapons be good is to use a system where being wounded is very unpleasant.

>>49647882
in GURPS, thrown weapons don't seem to be too bad, depending on how you build for them
they're definitely a good backup for a high-ST character - you can easily use a bandolier of knives or shuriken to nail enemies in unarmored spots, especially if they're staying out of reach of your main weapon
throwing weapons pretty much all have cut or impaling damage modifiers too - cut is a 1.5x damage bonus after DR is calculated (x2 if you hit them in the throat), and impaling is a x2 bonus to damage (x3 if you nail them in the vitals) so despite their often low base damage they've got the capacity to do shitloads more than what you can normally swing with.
if you don't want to be using thrust-based damage, you can always pick up a throwing axe, too - throwing axes are heavy, but do swing-based damage, which is as far as i know unique to throwing weapons

unlike melee weapons, bows or crossbows, a thrown weapon's damage isn't limited by its ST score either, so a small knife can be thrown for 2d-2 impaling damage at ST20 as opposed to a thrust in melee for 1d impaling.

the main downsides to thrown weapons in GURPS are that they're heavy, and they're expensive - a properly rated bow or crossbow is a one-time purchase and you can apply modifiers out the ass to it if you've got the money, ammo for it is usually only $2 an arrow/bolt with negligible weight, whereas most throwing weapons cost $30-$60 a pop and weigh from 0.5lbs each to 4lbs each (small knife vs throwing axe)
the only exception to that is shuriken, which cost $3 each and each weigh 0.1lbs, making them fairly light, cheap, and not too expensive to modify - the downside to that is they're only cut modifier

>>49651531
oh, also - thrown weapons are universally fast, too. they require only a single ready action to 'reload', whereas a bow requires two, and a crossbow 4+. a successful fast-draw roll can reduce drawing a thrown weapon to being a free action, whereas a fast draw roll for a bow will only reduce the time it takes to reload by one turn.

the martial arts book has rules for going full DIO and throwing multiple knives at the same time, but it can be a little underwhelming if you haven't put many points into the related skills

i also forgot to mention the atlatl, which is a fucking beast
the atlatl is like using the throwing axe - it lets you throw javelins for swing damage instead of thrust, BUT unlike the throwing axe, javelins deal impaling damage instead of cutting damage, which is fucking insane
it just requires two hands to use, so you can't wield something else to cover your bases in case of melee combat.

tl;dr: throwing weapons in GURPS have a fair few good options and can be a really good backup or secondary weapon, and since they benefit greatly from increased strength, they're actually pretty good for chunkier, tankier characters.

sources: basic set, low-tech, and martial arts.

>>49647882
poison or other special abilities.

the Exile series also had shitty throwing weapons, but it kept archery relevant in the face of fireball and shockstorm spam by letting you poison arrows very easily, and poison being really, really good.

If you could poison throwing weapons, or even enchant them to explode or freeze targets or whatever, it'd be a lot of fun. Make arrows the damage output option and thrown the gimmick trick build option.

>>49649325
then why are guns such shit in these games

>>49647882
They should be used as off hand free attack combo weapons add part of a charge or retreat that deal minimal damage of any, but severely hamper their targets defence, weather or not they hit.

>>49649413
>Choosing the worst fighter archetype for slightly better running
Why would you choose an archetype based around having a slightly better chance of getting up to 12 more damage when battle masters have several ways to add a D8-12 to their damage rolls whenever they want?

Unless the champion archetype had mechanisms for better criticals similarly to barbarians it doesn't really offer any advantages.

>>49647882
Because they are shit. Play cinematic games with weaboo fightan magic where even the most ridiculous weapons work just fine.
Also, shadowrun throwing adepts are pretty powerful.

>>49652256
>not knocking them down with the Shield Master feat to gain advantage
>not having 8 chances to crit at a 15% rate per turn
>composite_image_of_several_laughing_champion_fighters.jpg

That's not always true! In 5e, javelins--
>sometimes okay as backup weapons.

...oh. Well, you said it yourself.

>>49647882
In Anima it doesn't Cancer+Eyes of death is considered broken as fuck

>>49647882
Man, in sahdowrun dragon fall, thrown weapons are the best. Stat off strength, so if you are all in melee you have a good ranged option. Also pinning dart just fucks melee only enemies.

>>49647882
Seeing as those aren't even close to every system, I think your claim is bullshit. Throwing weapons are great in lots of systems. Your issue is that you're a D&Dbabby who is so inexperienced that you treat Pathfinder and D&D as different systems.

Play something else you fucking loser.

>>49652711
Think you mean Sagittarius.

>>49649166
>central african cultures did have armies with full on unassisted throwing weapons
And they consistently got fucked six ways from Sunday by even the lowest spear chucking tribes. Those "throwing" weapons are shit in every way.

>>49647882
Legends of the Wulin says hi, as they work pretty well there.

theyre pretty good in dark souls and bloodborn

>exalted

speaking of...did we ever get any alchemical martial arts?

>>49657463
I think the names of styles are referenced in their book in 2e, but no actual charms are given.

>>49647882
Play RuneQuest where a sudden thrown weapon to the face is viable and dangerous.

>>49647882
>Throwing weapons always suck. It doesn't matter the system. D&D, PF, Shadowrun, Exalted, they always suck. At best they're sometimes okay as backup weapons. Why is this and what can be done to fix it?

Just like real life

>>49650648
Don't forget Combat Instincts, so you can double your strength modifier a few times per combat, making your damage 1d(x)+ quadruple strength. If you have 20 strength, you will be dealing 20 damage in a single hit - if you find a sharp pebble, you can actually give someone a crippling injury with it.