/CofD/ &/wodg/ Chronicles of Darkness and World of Darkness

>>49580549
MAGES
WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f8jlnog0Fg

>>49580549
The Principle dun goofed

Every time it tried ti fix it's mistake, new monsters and magics kept appearing.

In the end it gave up and decided to start over - hence Prometheans.

>>49580549
The first vampire was Caine, even in CofD. I like to spice up VtR with bits of VtM lore.

I ran 1e CofD pre-history as a CAS/Howard influenced horror fantasy setting that shifted to a pre-history similar to what we know after the simultaneous events of The Fall, The Rite of Return, and the Death of Father Wolf. I had a lot of fun making that setting.

Now I stick to the Dark Eras takes, since it creates a more explicit timeline.

>>49580845
that sounds pretty cool

>>49580549
My vampires were people possessed by the strix when the gauntlet fell. Pulling the strix out forcefully left some 'strings' behind, turning them into revenants. Eventually these early vampires would find a blood ritual that restores the mortal mind, turning them into an early neglatu bloodline. When perfected, the ritual is passed down the embrace allowing for all the kinds of vampires we know today. Of course, the drained who rise again are still revenants, some of them neglatu, and this ritual works on mortals to an extent to create blood bathers. Every 'the first vampire' story is correct, just depends on what kind of proto-vampire you mean.

>>49581169

Oh, that's really neat! I've always liked it when the Strix are involved with a possible Vampire origin.

>>49580549
>that picture
Clearly the artist has never seen what the inside of a man's head looks like with the eyes removed. come to med school, they said, see all the fun stuff!. Super props to getting the eyeballs out so nice and round, though. That's pretty skillful. The murderers around Baltimore could use some lessons.

Anyone willing to share the final Mage PDF with errata and index? Thanks.

>>49581943
Stop being a cheapskate

People in the forums seem to be mad and Dracula and co dissing CofD and praising oWoD.

>>49582091

And where's the evidence of said diss? What forum are you talking about?

I wish the rules in VtR were more setting agnostic so that I could more easily use them in my SMT-styled God's-fucking-pissed apocalypse chronicle.

>>49582175
The official ones. Someone posted a video from Grand Masquerade.

>>49582276

Oh, the keynote speech? I watched that and didn't find anything controversial as as a CofD fan. Got a link to the thread?

>>49582668
Here it is:

http://forum.theonyxpath.com/forum/main-category/main-forum/the-new-world-of-darkness/978952-so-the-white-wolf-q-a-from-grand-masquerade-is-up

>>49582091
That' wasn't a dis. That was Shane being Shane and commenting on the design of the worlds. Which, to be fair, is pretty accurate. WoD is built around the world as the primary modus, CofD is built around the game as the primary modus. This doesn't mean anything other than they have different dsign goals.

>>49582793
>people in the forums seem to be mad
>share link
you must be autistic if you thnk they're mad

>>49583391
>People on 4chan
>Autistic

Say it ain't so.

>>49583373

Yeah, if that's all it's not a diss. Like, I know "but it's so Gamist!" is thrown around like an insult but. Focusing on the game is never a bad thing.

>>49584335
>Focusing on the game is never a bad thing
Especially when what you end up focusing on instead ends up as utter tripe

Would you know if I buy the pdf of Mage if Ill get discounted of I buy the book in the future?

>>49585797
... I don't see any reason why they'd discount a hard copy just because you've bought the right to hold a copy of some bytes.

>>49585797
i don't think so

>>49585797
Maybe? They often offer a discounted PDF+POD combo for stuff. Sometimes they've went through and retroactively made the cost for both, separately, into the combo cost. I'd message them and see.

>>49585797
Not always.
though if you bought the Pre-Errata PDF then yes. Then they send you a link then to buy the book at the discounted price, I rather like doing that. Buying the book early then when the final edit comes along I get that book (of course) as well.

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What are Lodges in Werewolf?

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>>49586795
Cults.

>>49586359

One day I'm going to do that, I've never been able to justify purchasing a physical copy of anything these days.

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>>49587036
Oh, I see. They are like Cabals then?
My english sucks.

>>49587084
no, cabals are more like packs
they're like legacies
they dedicate themselves to a lodge totem and dedicate their hunts (or way of hunting) to it

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>>49587116
Thank you anon.

How can lizardmen be justified in cofd?

>>49587466
God-Machine experiments.
Irresponsible Mages.
Claimed.
"They just exist, and always have".

Just to name a few off of the top of my head.

>>49587466
Adding to what >>49587532 Said
Demon created servants to not call attention to its self.
shape shifter variety.
Doctor Who like ancient Lizard people from the dinosaur era who escaped extinction by going deep under ground and hibernating. Global warming? That's them terraforming the planet back to an environment they can make use of and conquer.
Stupid Hunter Organization made something to help them fight supernaturals by taking their hunter soldiers and injecting reptile DNA into them to give them lizard powers. They done goofed.

>>49587466

They sound like run of the mill Cryptids.

Weird races of humanoids already exist in the CofD. It's easy to just add one more.

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>>49587466
>>49587532
>>49587757
>>49587826
There are actually lizardmen in Demon: the Descent's corebook.

Variable Form means they can shapeshift, Occluded means they're hard to notice.

>>49581758
Is this your subtle bragging about being in med school?

okay, I'm going to ST my first M:TA game. I'm worried I don't have everything accounted for despite the fact I've read the book probably three times now.

What are common mistakes people make playing/ST-ing Mage?

>>49588921
Playing Mage the Ascension

>>49588921
Worrying too much about having everything accounted for.

It's a game about magic. Lay out a basic framework for the story(a start point and a couple of endpoints, maybe an important scene or two in between), then let your players go through it on their own. Even if you read every single spell in the book, they're undoubtedly going to be able to come up with a solution to a problem that you didn't consider, and you should just roll with it(as long as it's actually possible in the rules).

>EG: I started my players off dealing with an android from the future. I figured they'd probably just straight up try to kill it, or send it back where it came from. Instead, the Moros liquified its joints, then the Obrimos cut its power, and they took it to their Sanctum to study it.
Granted, it re-activated itself right after they walked it over the threshold, but they still managed to take it down in only a couple of turns with a couple of choice Forces spells.

>>49588981
shit
is that what that shortens to

I meant Mage The Awakening

>>49588995

Technically it's MtAsc, but since Ascension was first, it commonly becomes MtA. Awakening's always been MtAw for that very reason.

>>49588921
My ST underestimated just how dangerous 2000 decibels of sound could be.
n my defense so did I.
I honked a novelty car horn that played the same tune as the Dukes of Hazard car and then used Forces to amplify the sound, and rolled an exceptional.
You can bet that spell paradoxed.
The Sound Cannon will forever live in infamy in my group.

>>49581943
>Anyone willing to share the final Mage PDF with errata and index?

Seconded. It's odd how the advanced pdf was shared almost immediately, but the new one is still nowhere to be seen.

... At what point does a spell cease to trigger Paradox, and instead trigger Dissonance?

Say to use the example here >>49589542
If you enhanced the sound of a Horn to such a ludicrous degree that everyone in the city heard and it deafened nearby individuals, would that be Dissonance or Paradox?

If the horn was blown a good half a minute after the spell, then it could no longer be Paradox, but what about simultaneous casting and blowing?
Does Paradox occur in the instant in wuich it would have immediate effect?

To use another example, blasting a Sleeper with fire which you are directly controlling.
If their back is turned to you while casting, and then within the same round, you smash the blast of fire shaped like a T-Rex into them that would be Dissonance?
What if you cast the spell while they were watching, then waited at least a second beofre enacting your control over the fire in order to avoid Paradox, instead dealing with dissonance.

Even at the moment you cast it, there's no obvious use of Supernal power.
Only when the flames take unnatural, mystical shape, does the Sleeper become aware.

>>49589604
Dissonance is when Sleepers, using their 5 basic senses, become aware of something impossible. If they see the fire t-rex, they will disbelieve it and evoke dissonance, if they don't and just feel themselves catching fire because it bit them from behind (and they didn't turn round because of the heat) then it doesn't.

Paradox is if you reach to make the t-rex instead of a velociraptor, and over-extend your magical abilities

>>49589622
Okay, perhaps I phrased that wrong.
At what point do Sleeper witnesses provide bonus Paradox dice?

>>49589646
Simultaneously

>>49589671
Neat, so if at the moment of the casting, you do not create an instantensouly and evidently Magical effect, then Sleeper witnesses will not cause the creation of Paradox dice.

>>49589683
Correct.

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>>49580549
What's the most depressing thing to have happened to your vampire?

>>49591071
His embrace and being taken away from everything he knows and loves.

>>49591071
His apprentice who he trained and protected out of true compassion killed his touchstone right in front of him.

Then fucked off with her Mage sugardaddy.

>>49591239
Why did that happen?

>>49591329
Think teenage rebellion, but with joining the Crones and running off with a Thyrsus bad boy.

>>49591363
So you didn't blood bond your disciple well enough I see. That's why blood bonds exist friend. That way she doesn't go off to be with a sugar daddy. Because she needs to be with you, always with you, never without you. She has to have you. That way you don't have to worry about things like what happened to you.

>>49589646
When you're casting the spell.

If you summon a Trex in full view of a bunch of Sleepers, you get an extra die (plus a dice trick) on the paradox roll. If you summon Barney anyway (and they survive) they cause a Dissonance roll at the end of the scene.

Summon him in peace and quiet, no paradox. Go rampaging down main street with him, and at the end of the scene he'll be hit by Dissonance.

Gonna repeat a question from last thread here.

How do you deal with werewolf territories in your games, anons? What sort of guidelines do you use for deciding how big they are? Do you work with standard physical area (in both normal and shadow worlds), the number of loci under control, other places or features of importance?

Thanks in advance.

>>49589622
>5 basic senses
>People still think proprioception, thermoception, nociception, and equilibrioception don't count.

Knowing the position of where your arm is even when you can't see it is sensory data, guys. Now, clearly sight is of greater salience to humans than other senses (our poor olfactory bulb kept getting squashed by the evolving frontal cortex), but still, that's a bit of a silly comparison.

>>49591861
Well I try to look at what the pack hunts, and look at what a prime territory would be for hunting that, and competition. For example Chicago has smaller packs that control smaller areas, because that's vampire country. Go two hours north though and the werewolf Protectorate is huge, covers a state and vampire's are paying off werewolves to allow them to operate in their territory meetings happen behind closed doors between pack leaders, and Invictus leaders with Mages and/or Beasts acting as moderators because they can be trusted to be impartial by both sides.

Long and short I make a supernatural underworld ecosystem because that is the only way everyone maintains their secrets.

It's when someone gets greedy and tries to upset the ecosystem that Masquerades get blown, Werewolves are exposed, Heroes start waking up, and Paradox gets thrown around like it's body glitter at a club.

What're some reasons for characters of different supernatural origin to go around and party together?

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>>49591936
speaking of ecosystems, how many Mages do you guys prefer in your settings?

Personally, I like to have far fewer Mages than described in MTAw, with maybe just a few dozen in an entire Order for a fair-sized country. Certainly less than the "100 non-ascended archmages in the world" that Imperial Mysteries would suggest. It makes discovery and magical spelunking a bit more risky when fewer have walked down that path before and much more is unknown.

>>49591589
>If you summon Barney anyway (and they survive) they cause a Dissonance roll at the end of the scene.
Wait, so does that mean that sometimes Guardians bearing a Mask that permits murder for the cause, may sometimes try to kill Sleeper witnesses before they trigger Dissonance?

Alternatively, can you erase all the supernatural memories from their minds so there's nothing left for the Abyss to scourge, saving them from the Breaking Point, and yourself from a more severe Act of Hubris?

>>49592020
I like to have Mages interacting with Mages, which necessitates a fairly healthy population size for each individual city.
Enough to fully populate the various roles in the Orders, and the Consilium.

>>49580549
Why do you guys dislike old world of darkness? Did you not like the original lore?

If it's just for the rules, I find that a pretty weak reason. Your table your rules, after all, and the manuals are guidelines.

>>49591992
Mutual protection from a bigger threat. If you think about it various nations and groups have banded together to deal with something either one couldn't handle on their own.

So the Chicago Mafia-esque Vampires might suddenly need a favor dealing with a God on a rampage that risks turning Chicago into a hellscape and since they can't reach the Shadow on their own to deal with this they make deals with their fuzzy neighbors to the North in the form of Guns, Drugs, Money, what ever they want within reason for Aid.

Mages, Beasts, Giests I can see as willing to Freelance in areas where their populations are particularly low. A mage in a Prince's court grants him a certain air of respectability. A beast on a leash is quite the pet like a South American king and his pet Jaguars.

>>49592104
>Wait, so does that mean that sometimes Guardians bearing a Mask that permits murder for the cause, may sometimes try to kill Sleeper witnesses before they trigger Dissonance?

That does sound like more extreme Guardians to me, yes.

>>49592020
Depends if we are playing Mage, Mixed, or something else. And in what city. All major cities have at least 100 active mages in them. So when you consider Albuquerque has 500,000 people that is 1/500th of the population. I think the odds are better to win a $5,000 prize from the lottery.

>>49592121
>oh bait, how much I've missed you

>Did you not like the original lore?
It's sometimes okay (even if some of it is a bit preachy), but it can be oppressive. Just as rules, lore can be a guideline, but when the metaplot starts to logically constrict on player/ST actions (particularly when themes clash or are not suitable to a particular outlook), then it's a bit less comfortable.

Having a more flexible ruleset can be a boon, especially for plopping down bits and parts of the rules into other settings.

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WtA or WtF and why?

>>49592212
Forsaken. No Eco-Warrior bullshit.

>>49592215
Can I be a shark or giant spider in Forsaken?

>>49592265
If you build them with the other changer rules in War Against the Pure from 1e or reskin wolf stuff. Otherwise no.

>>49591239
>Then fucked off with her Mage sugardaddy.

Damn mages...

However, why would a Thyrsus be at all interested in a young vampire other than a passing curiosity or annoyance?

>>49592452
Because she was good in the sheets maybe?

Playing a UK game right now, that means guns are illegal and really hard to get a hold of. What are some roleplay reasons for having 3 dots in Firearms?

>>49592265
No. Werewolf is about werewolves.

>>49592760
Military service.
Police Training.
Organized Crime Connection.

>>49592760
Landowner/farmer/groundskeeper. Rifles and shotguns of petty much all types. Or you lived in Northern Ireland, where handguns are also legal.

Or you grew up on a council estate in Brixton, where every dealer can also get guns for you.

As long as you're not using automatic weapons or a grenade launcher, prerty much anything else is viable.

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me and my friends are looking for a story teller / gm for a game of vampire the masquerade 20th anniversary edition on roll 20 we have about 4 players all we need is a dm

add me on steam or Skype if interested

Skype- matthew.edwards757

steam- http://steamcommunity.com/id/uberman1/

Okay

I want a Thyrsus to specialize in Plant Magic, but I'm having trouble picking rotes, ideas?

Life 3
Spirit 1
Fate 2

>tfw you gotta have a baali curse your players to keep things balanced properly

>The character protects an area from supernatural effects used by anyone other than the character and up to a two dozen specific individuals named when the warding is created. Even if he is not present inside the warded area, the purified can reflexively make a Wits + Occult + Chi roll as contested roll against any supernatural ability used on anyone or anything inside the warded area. If the attacker does not win the contest by at least one success, the ability fails to affect everyone inside the warded area.

Holy shit

>>49593463
Why the fuck doesn't that just use the Clash of Wills rule?

>>49593474
Because it didn't exist when it was written

So a couple of months ago some guys were talking about making Manipulation a skill instead of an attribute. Does anyone here remember all the details and did anyone playtest it?

>>49592212
>WtA or WtF and why?

WtA.

I like the complicated (to put it lightly) relationship the tribes have with one another, and how so much of their story is about how their ancestors fucked things up and now *they* have to fix it, except most of the time they never get anything noteworthy done or they just spend all that time blaming each other. Add in the Wyrm and all that stuff, and it makes for a pretty interesting stories, in my opinion.

Then again, I've always preferred Old World of Darkness over New World/Chronicles of Darknes. I grew up with OWoD, so I'm far more invested and immersed in that lore than with Chronicles/NWoD.

Is Mass: The Effecting CwoD 1e or 2e?

>>49592760
Being a farmer who uses a shotgun to keep his livestock safe/protect his fields from crows/game shooting.

>>49593069
Shit I should have scrolled on a bit to see this response.

Is 2e really much better than 1e?

I want to run a game and I already have a good grasp of 1e, but don't know if it's worth it to look at the second editions or even what all is significantly different or improved.

>>49594435
I think so but I don't have much exposure with 1e. I almost gave up on it though due to a bad experience with it but I felt the rules and setting were so good. Everything flowed so well and I didn't want to give up on it. Then I played beast and I felt like I found a good match, and werewolf I told would feel better and I think I am looking forward to playing a mage.

>>49592265
You can get Anyskin (or something)t hat lets you change into a shark or spider instead of a wolf

>>49592212
WtF
Much more fun game
All about the hunt
No moral law to stick by (there is but you can break it)
Can fuck other werewolves
Tribes are groups of like minded wolves, not bloodlines that don't make sense
Bad guys much better and less ridiculous
Much more variability in the kind of werewolf you can be
Technology isn't evil
Civilization isn't evil

>>49594049

1e, I beleive.

Can you heal resistant damage with legacy attainments?

>>49596013
Yes, one of the Seer attainments lets you heal resistant damage with pattern restoration.

>>49596013
>Can you heal resistant damage
no

>>49592212
2e WtF really puts you in the flesh of a werewolf. Allthe abilities are very visceral, the senses astounding in power, the focus on the hnt rreally gets things going. Totems and expanded pack makes things really cool and letsyou do a lot with the pack.

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>>49596219
>>49596045
Its in the 2e Core book.

>>49596418
>Seers

Slave pls

>>49588921
Thinking PCs will have problems with uncovering mysteries. They're Mages. Between Mage Sight and one-dot spells they cut through mysteries like through butter. Instead, present them with their Obsessions and have them decide how Wise are they going to be in pursuing them. Pay attention to how much thought and effort they put into solving problems, and act accordingly. Also, you can throw Mage politics at them.

>>49593190
Transform Life (Life 3), to give plants motion, odd body parts, or whatever else you want.
Control Instincts (Life 2), to puppet your super weeds around, or make ordinary plants grow better.

>>49595298
Thanks.

>>49595298
How much of a bitch is converting? I'm guessing balancing the various abilities is something I shouldn't attempt without a good grasp of the system.

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>>49596533
Why am I suddenly picturing Plants vs. Zombies

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I'm just wondering, is Resources actually a trap merit? The whole party owning 2/3 dots each isn't gonna buy shit. It's probably best for one character to get 5 dots and have everyone else mooch off them.

>>49597374
depends if your party is a hive mind or sometimes act occasionally

>>49597416
>occasionally
independently

>>49597374

Honestly I've thought about it and I'm starting to think Resources should be rewritten to be less about buying power (which is irrelevant in the vast majority of campaigns) and more of a booster.

Everyone can get gear, but the Wealthy man can get fine swords and suits of armor. Everyone can schmooze, but the Wealthy man does so more effectively and with less trouble.

It's either that or folding into Influence, where "I'm rich biatch" is the foundation of your Influence, just like "I stab people"

Is there a particular group of supernaturals that have a majority in Vegas?

>>49597374
No, it's quite useful.
It isn't however fun when you're the only one who has it.
As everyone else will constantly be making demands of you, or refuse to use it and thus get themselves into somewhat pointless situations where they're trying to steal a chainsaw from Bunnings.

>>49598728
Bar Mages, I like to imagine that most Supernaturals keep mostly to their own "wavelength". Essentially meaning that no specific faction of Supernaturals has dominance in any particular region (mostly), as while they're all sharing the same space, they care about different things and aren't that likely to run across each other.

>>49596436
You're all slaves.
Seers just seek to work with the undefeatable, God-beings who have ruled reality for all of time.
Rather than pointlessly dicking about flailing in vain as you're slowly smothered by their harsh, oppressive power.

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Threadly reminder that

>Nosferatu (Tzimisce) is best clan
>Ithaeur is best Auspice
>Mastigos is best Path
>Darkling is best Seeming
>Unfleshed is best Lineage
>I don't give a fuck about Hunters but I guess Net Zero is cool
>Forgotten is best Threshold
>I've never read Beast so I can't give my correct opinion but I guess Eshmaki sound cool
>Ren is BY FAR the best Decree
>Psychopomo is best Incarnation

I've only played Vampire, Mage, Geist, and a small bit of Changeling. I really want to play Mummy. I liked Demon the Fallen more than DtD

>>49597499
SO basically,
"Screw the rules I have money?"

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How old should an average vampire be? I'm not talking about generation but about years.
How many years of being a vampire gives one a certain sense of what is going on in the world and what you should and shouldn't do in order to survive?
I mean a 20 year old 8th generation is obviously not as big of a threat as a 100 year old 10th generation vampire, right?

>>49598728

In oWoD, Mages

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>>49599438
>Masquerade

man, that anon that wanted to run a changeling game just and disappeared. I got all excited too.

>>49599438
>a 20 year old 8th generation is obviously not as big of a threat as a 100 year old 10th generation vampire, right?
I would say it goes the other way around, the blood potency matters a lot and two generations is a noteworthy difference. Unless you're of the conviction that everything past 6th are thinblooded mongrels.
Also recently embraced don't need to adapt to the world around the, they already lived there. Somebody who has been out of the loop for couple decades (especially if we're talking torpor) might have much more difficulty catching up.

What is the VTR equivalent of the Tzimisce?

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>>49599599
>Also recently embraced don't need to adapt to the world around the, they already lived there
Oh yeah, I meant the WoD, like being aware of the masquerade, ghosts, werewolves and basically getting to know the "real" face of the world and how to approach it. Sorry for not specify earlier.
>>49599463
I'm too autistic to go VtR. I rather the clans and lore in VtM.

>>49599600
The closest would be the Norvegi.

>>49599702
Do they make monsters out of human flesh?

>>49599690
where is the top right from?

>>49599714
No,their unique discipline is growing blood drinking spikes all over there bodies.

>>49599753
Immortals.

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>>49599764
Who does that in CofD? Also, what is the most outright deformed bloodline?

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>>49599845
Just translate it over to VtR, that's what I did

>>49580549
Any place or forum in which i could play Mage ? I don't have a scene on my town

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>>49599853
>>49599600

>>49600108
Move

>>49599327
>Nosferatu (Tzimisce) is best clan

Tzimisce are Ventrue.

>>49599690
>I'm too autistic to go VtR. I rather the clans and lore in VtM.

Good on you!
I'm too autistic to deal with the bullshit of Masquerade myself.

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How do I protect my human waifu who doesnt seem affected by Lunacy

what is the best geist manifestation and why is it boneyard?

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>>49602775
You can't Storyteller will kill you

>>49602775
True Friend merit

>>49602775
The Pure will kidnap her to be a breeder

>>49602807
It's not even that good a Manifestation, unless you're some gamist loser.

It's Passion Marionette. Nothing like making Guy A irrationally angry at Guy B while they've both got guns, and levying a -8 penalty to do anything other than act on that anger.

Alternately: Stygian Curse. Because sometimes you just want to give someone erectile dysfunction so bad they kill themselves.

>>49591861
The general rule for territory size is "However big you can patrol in a day", but as you get stronger it matters less and can become more blurred. No one expects the buncha Primal Urge 7, hunter gods next door to patrol the entire city they control because they keep their territory in line and whenever anyone fucks with it they make an example.

>>49588165
'subtle'

>>49599463
>That webm
Is it bad that I'm laughing?

How do old vampires wake up from their torpor? Do someone, or something has to pour blood on it? Can they wake up by their own, or by accident?

>>49603779
They wake up after approximately the correct time has lapsed. If it's a vampire who has been torpid for a long time, it's usually in response to something "important", like mass blood spilling (riot, mass murder, or something), or a powerful vampire arriving.

>>49580549
Can we have a mega with WoD stuff, too?
I think there was one.

Anyone have screenshots on how premium heavyweight books look like compare to the regular hardcover?

>>49604238
Look in the paste bin.

>>49599845
The most outright deformed Bloodline is probably The Carnival, also called the Freak Show. They have the 'combine people into one dude' style of flesh alteration Discipline.

>>49602775
Dude she's probably not a hooman. GET OUT NOW.

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>>49594435
>Is 2e really much better than 1e?
It's better enough that it's worth the minimal effort to learn what's changed. From a mechanical standpoint, it took some (optional) stuff from Armory and made it core, and ironed out some playtest/fan concerns about how armor worked.

For example, obviously nWoD's central rule was 8+ on a bunch of d10s. It's nice and simple. But it runs into scaling problems and, because of how damage and armor interacts in 1e, action economy problems.

If you're super bored and/or super autistic, look up hunters defeating werewolf packs by packing a schoolbus full of children with BB guns. It was a problem.

Also, the experience system in 1e heavily skewed towards putting all your eggs into your (supernatural advantage) basket. So that needed to be changed.

>>49580549
The Devil put dinosaurs here

>>49591071
THICK
LUPINE
COCKS

>>49599690
>Someone took the World of Darkness GTA cover I made and don't have anymore and haphazardly slapped "Classic" onto it
Literally all of that comes from fucking nWoD book art. FFS.

What's the CofD equivalent of dirty Sabbat illegals?

>>49605172
>If you're super bored and/or super autistic, look up hunters defeating werewolf packs by packing a schoolbus full of children with BB guns. It was a problem.
I'm not sure how that was fixed in 2e, other than by giving Werewolves ridiculously good healing. Is "25 people shooting one person" really a problem? Even in 2e, you'd still be able to kill someone with about 14 shots from a BB-gun, unless BB-guns specifically had a special quality that means they only do Bashing or don't do any damage if reduced by armour.

I mean, don't get me wrong, I love 2e, and it fixes a lot of problems. It's just weird to bring up that specifically.

If you ask me, what 2e really does to fix problems like that is that it could turn the incident into a Tilt or something else instead of saying "you should by the system's mechanical laws play this out as you would expect".
I actually think we'll see that kind of system of Tilts in Hurt Locker, if its ever released. And I'm pretty sure Scion 2e has it.

>>49591071
Other Vampires

>>49591071
Had to put down a depressed childhood friend embraced and ditched by the BBEG. She flew off the handle after killing someone through feeding and not feeling bad about it.

>>49605246
This sounds like a story that can't be told on a blue board but oddly enough I want to hear more.

Which WoD ruleset would be best for a group that's never played it before?

>>49605478
I'd probably go CofD, because of how easy it is to pick up, and well supported it is, and adaptable to newer ST's. Plus speed of turn and game flow and rules are all fairly quick and easy to pick up.

That's why I prefer it anyway.

>>49605478
CofD

OWoD is too involved

>>49605478
Chronicles of Darkness core rulebook

So as far as shadow names go, how Ill fated is Ma'ii, and just what can I look forward to?

>>49587988
Oh shit, I didn't even know those existed in that book.

>>49605381
Crone or Belial cultists.

>>49602807
Pyre-Flame Boneyard all the way baby! With a nice backup of Industrial Marionette.

>>49605528
Expect bonuses to trickery and illusions and people around you suffering misfortune. You may become something of a pariah.

>>49581943
>Anyone willing to share the final Mage PDF with errata and index? Thanks.

Why is animal sacrifice an act of hubris?

Humans slaughter animals in spectacular quantity every day. If I want some mana along with my hamburger all of a sudden I'm a degenerate?

>>49605467
I see what you did there.

>>49607197
>If I want some mana along with my hamburger all of a sudden I'm a degenerate?

Yes, actually. It's the sacrifice FOR magic that's the act of hubris. As for all the other animals that people slaughter every day, well, they're sleepers, aren't they? There's a reason your eyes are open.

>>49607236
I could possibly buy that for 8+ wisdom but the way it's written it's hubristic even for a wisdom 2 scelesti.

Ritual slaughter is a part of many religions and superstitions already. What's the voodoo flavored obrimos going to do switch to tofu?

>>49607211
I don't remember it that well. Did she actually kill someone?

>>49607321
If I recall correctly, this is somewhat clarified in The Sundered World setting in Dark Eras.

In that era, sacrificing animals is basically your main way of getting Mana, since going into the wilderness to track down Hallows is too dangerous. So back then, you could get away with it, provided you did it in the right ceremonial context, because you had no other choice. In the modern era, though, animal sacrifice is both no longer generally practiced nor specifically necessary, since tracking down Hallows or trading Tass with other Mages is a much simpler matter now (not to mention getting your free Legacy mana). So now that it's no longer a matter of life or death, taking the life of another being for power is hubristic.

>>49607671
Did they not have pattern scouring back then?

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Can you guys tell me the differences between cofd and owod?

I'm owod fag and looks like everyone here praise so much the nwod.

Why should I play CofD instead of oWoD?
oWoD looks like have a very much options in character creations.

>>49607729
>Yeah lemme just fuck up my body for a whole day in an era where manual labor is the name of the game.

>>49607739
oWoD is goofy 90s shit, CofD isn't. The mechanics are much worse in oWoD too.

>>49607749
>manual labor
>mage
Are you okay there buddy?

>>49607799
>A life before fastfood and a sedentary life style

>>49607729
Yea but you can't rely on that as your primary source of Mana if you want to ever have enough to accomplish larger feats - especially because of what >>49607749 said. It's the Neolithic, the Wise may not be tilling fields or hunting but they still have to be ready to do real, backbreaking labor along with their village once and a while. Just because they have a respected position in their communities doesn't mean people are waiting on them hand and foot - quite the opposite, really. They have to pull their own weight like everyone else.

>>49607857
Or they could compensate the slightly reduced lone physical attribute with magic if they absolutely needed to? Heck, you could choose to reduce Dexterity and still be able to do as much backbreaking labor as you like.

>>49607897
>Heck, you could choose to reduce Dexterity and still be able to do as much backbreaking labor as you like.
>hands are shaking and clumsy, stab your foot with a shovel

Ok buddy.

>>49607975
>having your dexterity reduced by one turns you into a drunken retard
I wonder why people always try so hard to prove that pattern scouring somehow carries more than completely negligible consequences. A single die of penalty to a few niche tasks isn't a major impediment to a Mage in any way whatsoever. Gaining mana is literally a non-issue no matter how hard you try to pretend that it's a big deal.

>>49592212

If you want barbaric society in modern times with shitty convoluted rules? WtA

If you want urban shaman hunters with constraining rules? WtF

>>49607897
Ok, but you're still talking about 3 points of Mana at a time - which, if you also have a Legacy, can cover you for most day-to-day stuff, but if you want to do any large workings, or are preparing to venture off into the wilderness, you're going to need to bank up more than that AND have all your attributes intact. Sacrificing cattle is 5 points of mana with no penalty, and sheep or goats are 2; if you're doing something in service of your village, someone will gladly offer you one for that purpose. Why wouldn't you accept that rather than weakening yourself? Keep in mind too that in-character, Pattern Scouring is miserable and painful, you wouldn't want to be living with that 100% of the time just to keep your Mana pool up. Especially if you're dealing with the kind of life-or-death struggles that Neolithic people have to deal with daily.

>>49607975
>Reduce dexterity by 1

>Add several die bonus to all dexterity tasks using magic that is completely free.

>Do Manual labor better than the nonmagic peasants.

>>49608243
Alternatively,

>Kill cow that the village gladly offered you for your service protecting them.

>Get 5 mana

>Don't have to do anything else.

>>49605467
>>49607211
>>49607451
I don't get the reference. Is it Buffy? Some anime?

>>49607739
oWoD actually probably has a lot less options at character creation, and all of those options force you into a specific role, while CofD's options allow for growth in all directions.
The setting of CofD is one of mystery and excitement, as opposed to the machinations of ancients too powerful for you to comprehend. That can and does happen in CofD as well, but since the focus is on you and your story as players, its rarely the old schtick of "your Ancient bosses tell you to do a thing".
Mechanically, CofD, especially 2e, is so refined that it's a different game, but one that's much more solid in terms of accomplishing the things it wants to accomplish. Even with the complaints some people have over things like Conditions and Tilts and the Beat Experience system, the game just works better, simply by virtue of every challenge not involving both shifting target numbers and shifting difficulty.

>>49608793
Even if you do for some reason love the oWoD setting more than the open and varied "toolbox" approach of the CofD, you can even do *that* better. Anything you can do in classic can be done in Chronicles, either directly out of the box or with minimal tweaking. Here are a few examples:

>Vampire
Porting a clan from Masquerade is simple. Just make it a Bloodline. The simplest way of handling this is to come up with a fitting Bane (which should involve the Humanity trait in some way) and some manner of benefit, usually a fourth In-clan Discipline or special Merit, or Bloodline Devotions.
I linked a Viccissitude homebrew I did earlier >>49601018 but say you don't want to do that much work. You could really just go with Ventrue that have Protean (Viccissitude in my homebrew is just Protean Devotions that add features anyway). If you want Tremere, you could make Mekhet with Theban Sorcery as a Bloodline Discipline (or just have them be all part of the Lance or an offshoot).
Toreador? Daeva, Bloodline Bane is "roll Humanity if confronted by art or beauty, take a Condition if you fail". Give them Auspex.

>Werewolf
Just make the Tribes Lodges, though most of them would need a Sacred Prey. Hell, if you don't mind throwing out the core setting, just make the Tribes Tribes (though you should still give them Sacred Prey and suitable siskur-dah bonuses). If you want Lupus, just have the Urhan form be their natural form.
If you want Metis, too bad, Metis are stupid and so is sitting around watching Football in Crinos. There's a reason WtF got rid of the dumb "werewolf on werewolf sex is super incest" angle.

>Mage
Traditions are all either groups within the Orders or replace the Orders.Though without consensual reality, Awakening is by far the most different. I personally find Consensual reality to be dumb, though. Still, you could treat in-Tradition magic as being a free Personal Tool, if I understand how that works correctly.

>>49608551
Not the point. I'm actually of the opinion that sacrifice should be a higher tier (that is, lesser) sin against Wisdom. Doesn't change that pattern scouring is a super efficient method of mana gathering for mages of any time period.

If you're worried about mana just use your praxis regularly. It's what it's there for.

>>49609063
Which tier is it and where does it say that? I got curious.

What other sites do you guys use for WoD stuff?

Only other places I know of are the official forums and unmodchat which was linked on 1d4Chan but seems a little bit... dead. The few users online also have charsheets a mile long and full of anime pictures or of edgy goth girls so I'd rather somewhere that won't give me cancer.

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Hello me and my friends are looking for a gm for a game of vampire the masquerade 20th anniversary edition. message me on steam or Skype

my steam- http://steamcommunity.com/id/uberman1/


my skype- matthew.edwards757

>>49609662
Don't try to set up a game here. Post in a Game Finder thread >>49608211

>>49605386
>other than by giving Werewolves ridiculously good healing
I mean, that sort of was it. Regeneration of all L at the end of each turn helps in situations where it's schoolchildren (15 babies rolling 1+0 die) shooting rather than, say, a bus full of hunters, which is (maybe?) a sufficient distinction?

>>49581943
Spend the like $10 you faggot

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>>49604644
Oh, there it is!
Thank you, Anon!

>>49609916

It was certainly one of the necessary changes to the game. Unfucking Werewolf powers was another, and they did that well, too.

Anybody have tips for running Hunter: The Vigil? Particularly an urban campaign.

>>49610568
System-wise, I'd suggest using the Mortal Remains update for 2e, as it saves Hunters a bunch of dots on merits towards safehouses, professional training and the like, since those things are coalesced into core CofD now.

>>49610568

Be very clear about which Tier you're running it at, and if you can, try to keep it there.

>>49605386
>Is "25 people shooting one person" really a problem?
Werewolves force inferior enemies to use Down & Dirty rules, which allows one werewolf to take a large group of foes (like children with bb guns) with one roll.

>>49611290
Actually, I'm honestly not sure how Down and Dirty combat works with multiple combatants. I reread the rules a while back and it didn't really make sense to me.

>>49611507
It uses teamwork rules
so they're a +1 to dicepool

>>49611566
+1 per success.

>>49611290
>Down & Dirty rules
It's probably not necessary to note it, but in the context of the original question this was not something that was present in 1e, which was where the kindergartners with BB guns problem arose.

>>49611796
the original question was whether 2e was better than 1e

this is a reason for yes yes it is (in werewoof at least)

I was thinking about running a Mage game with more established characters. Any advice on how many experience points I should give my players?

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>>49612263
How established. Probably between 5 and 10, and a free dot in two arcana up to normal limits.

If my Mentor is isolated in an island with no internet and methods of access by mail how can I contact him? I have an Acanthus an Mastigos in our Cabal. Can I ask help from them?

>>49613613

The Mastigos could probably take you to visit him via Astral (if he specialized in Mind) or just open a portal using your sympathetic tie to him (via Space).

>>49613613
You could probably get the Mastigos to send him a message, assuming he's got more than 1 dot each in Space and Mind.

Give him something to use as a sympathic yantra for your mentor, then ask him to cast Telepathy on you and your mentor.

>>49613613
>Mentor is isolated in an island
He's probably there trying to be left alone?

Anyway,
>Mastigos
Scrying is only Space 2; just make it a two-way window and gesticulate. At Space 2 you can also use sympathetic links to cast spells on subjects not in sensory range (p.172), so there's that.

>>49613613
If you have a Mastigos, then you're closer to your mentor than you are to the restaurant a block down the street that you've only been in twice.

He may need to borrow your sympathetic connection to get the job done, though.

>>49613613
If you can't reasonably contact your Mentor regularly, you don't have a Mentor.
Also, there's plenty of ways to communicate across great distances with Space magic.

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>>49613613

Throw a bottle with a message in and

Wait a second

>>49609662
Stop asking, no one wants to run a fucking game for you.

>>49614097
>that fucking anime

HOLY SHIT THAT'S TERRIBLE WHY WOULD YOU REFERENCE THAT!

>>49608243
>Free magic

Yeaah
Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight

Comments are on...
Here is Ma'ii
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Owye-BubAK2xl-udv8ylClwcV2GPBNJE4E9YghErNJA/edit?usp=sharing
I appreciate the comments, and all advice.

>>49608932
Consensual Reality is a cool idea, but doesn't work at all as a game element. Its a setting thing. and unfortunately to really use it and have it mean something, You've got to allow the setting to break itself.

Unless you're ok with rewriting the setting after every single veil breaching act the players will fcking do. It's not worth touching.

>>49613905
I need it for Infamous Mentor merit. I want to play off the abgle that my Mentor isolated himself from Mage Society for some reasob but is still respected to an extent.

>>49614584
Move 1 from int into wits. Move1 from Weaponry into Brawl. And quit being a depressive fck. you'll thanks yourself when the vamp grapples you

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How does tg feel about Princess the Hopeful? and the Different Versions?

Is there a Indebted condition? Like I begged a Master to erase my sisters memory of being raped and restoring her body to a non defiled state.

>>49614938
Guilty Condition? Also you could just make it a condition

>>49614907
>How does tg feel about Princess the Hopeful?
While I can't speak for anyone else, I quite like it. There's some wonkiness in the rules (as with any ruleset), but it can be pretty enjoyable. Be sure to convince your ST to give you bonus die for breaking out into song when you activate Razzle Dazzle.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lLxdLhuUu4

Yes, adding Princesses into supernatural friends party time settings is ridiculous. But who doesn't want to be the little (magical) girl?

Has /wodg/ ever gotten shit done and written up a city?

>>49615043
is this a fansplat I haven't heard about?

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>>49614824
They'll likely still have a way to contact you, even if it's an Imbued Item.

>>49614692
The problem is that the real world would be very different if things worked the way people think they do, and I don't just mean cars dramatically exploding every time they wreck. Hell, people think a banana peel will make you cartoonishly slide. Cartoons in general don't understand friction.

>>49614907
I like the concept, but think it fits better in a Hunter sort of setting as opposed to full kitchen sink crossover.
>>49615454
Princess: The Hopeful is a magical girl WoD game taking inspiration from the more modern "deconstructions" of the genre, like the anime Madoka and Nanoha, or the webnovel Sailor Nothing. It's about being a magical being of goodness and light in a world where goodness and light are in short supply, and the darkness causes you emotional or even physical harm.
It's surprisingly well done, though I've never had the chance to actually play it. The bookkeeping is a little much, and could be trimmed down (particularly handling Shadows), but it's not really much more than Forsaken's form juggling and Renown.

It's also one of the only two fansplats I know of that's fully thought out, with powers, player character organizations, antagonistic organizations, and monsters to fight. Of those two (the other being Genius) it's also the one that has a fitting tone instead of being wacky Nazi Moonbase hollow earth punchy action. The mechanics are also more reasonable, and encourage diversity, as opposed to "Everything uses Int".

But to answer the question >>49614907 asked, just stick with the Dream version that's found on the Princess Google site.
https://sites.google.com/site/princessthehopeful/home

>>49614907
I like it, but it works better in Hunter or Mage.
As a Changeling based faction in the former, and as a Legacy/Persona in the latter.

Still working on a Magical Girl Obrimos (Fate) Legacy.
They focus on finding the Indomitable Fate, the true will of the Supernal Realms.
They reason that any Fate that can be defeated by the Will of the Awakened is no true Fate.
So they seek the path and destiny that cannot be broken, a true shining Path.

Depending on how they view this path, they either join the Ladder, the Veil, or the Seers.

I'd play a magical girl game right now

>>49614529
Does it trigger you?

I'd like to think Wolf Kids anime movie is a prelude to a Forsaken game.

>>49612511
Up and coming movers and shakers about six years post awakening.

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>>49615893
Did someone say Magical Girl Hunter Conspiracy?

Also, while I'm clearly in favour of magical girl Hunters, I feel like Princess is acceptable, though bad for crossover.

>>49616040
It's Werewolves who have triggers.
And not him, but Magic is never really Free. Even at the most simple, it has opportunity cost in the form of spell tolerance. Scouring your Attributes and then raising them back up with magic means one less spell slot. Hence why slaughtering a cow for mana would be much more reasonable. Life is more difficult for one of the People than for the average modern Mage.

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>>49616308
To be a mover and/or shaker, I'd probably say Gnosis should be about 3.
That's when Mage starts to kick into higher gear, especially with the increased potency of Rituals.

At that point you can use an additional Yantra, which is pretty important for prepared/ritual spells.
Ritual speed doesn't suck total ass, so you can kinda do it when somewhat pressed for time.
You get another Obsession, and most importantly you can take an Arcanum to Disciple level.
Also you finally have to start paying more attention to how much you Reach.

So i'd give 10 Arcane Experiences, and 10 normal Experiences

With which as a PC I'd likely
>Increase Gnosis by 2, sufficient to have a good grasp on a Legacy
>Increase my primary and secondary Arcanum by 1 point each
>Buy a couple of Rotes

>>49616449
>spell tolerance
What did you mean by this?

>>49616449
Spell tolerance isn't tied to stamina in 2e.

>>49616545
Spell control. You can only have a number of active spells equal to your Gnosis.

>>49616449
>one less spell slot
That's spell control.
Cast it with a week duration, then spend a point of Willpower to relinquish control.

Boom, done.

>>49616582
Which is dangerous and also more complicated than necessary.
I get that in Magical Christmas Land, you never have trouble with anything, but making sure that it's difficult to balance the spinning plates is sort of the ST's job description. If you COULD do everything you wanted with no hassle, the game would get rather boring.

>>49616686
>Which is dangerous and also more complicated than necessary.
It is neither of those things.

>but making sure that it's difficult to balance the spinning plates is sort of the ST's job description
Yeah, which is why you have a not insigificant chance each session of that spell dying, the possibility that it could be dispelled, or attract more attention.
Plus there's the chance of the spell collapsing each session, as a single Paradox success can drop that advanced duration down to simple.

Or better yet, you could actually use that spell as a plot point, or element of the character.
Make some bystanders perceptive, trigger Dissonance, you'll soon make them more cautious in their use of such spells when they realise that their magically enhanced Dexterity is driving people nearby insane.

>>49616882
>It's not dangerous or complicated
>It just has chances of doing things you don't want
>And all of these extra complications
I'm sorry, what were you arguing against?
It requires a hell of a lot of more work to shore up your self-imposed frailties than it would to simply sacrifice for Mana. Especially when you're basically a caveman.

>>49616962
The dangerous part, which while possibly dangerous, is very managable.
And the complicated part, which just sounds like laziness to me.

Plus, I see no reason why claiming it's "complicated" makes it worse than the Hubristic act of taking a life (even an animal's life) for magical power.

>>49617166
What started this is that it's not hubristic in the Sundered World because it's by far the safest way for one of the People to get mana.

It's Hubristic for a modern mage to sacrifice another life for mana because they can get that mana in a myriad of other ways, making sacrifice an unnecessary and often cruel way of juicing up.

Can a Perfecting Death spell make people sleepy? Maybe fall asleep with a Reach.

>>49618012
Sleepy? No.
Render them unconscious? Certainly.

>>49618023
Cant you use Death to make a Calm/Lull?

>>49618089
No, but you can try and use Death to kill shit.
Shadow being the death of light, and cold being heat death.

>>49618012
The Little Death

>>49618100
Death handles endings absence and enervation entropy. Its more than just "Kill Things" Arcana.

>>49618149
I would probably say it wouldn't be useable for stuff like "Make the lads sleepy", because that falls under the purview of life . The manipulation of a living creatures "energy" isn't really an entropy thing.

>>49618157
>The manipulation of a living creatures "energy" isn't really an entropy thing.
You can certainly apply Death to causing bashing damage sufficient to render someone unconscious, but influencing their mind to cause them to fall asleep?

No.

Mind can do that by making them fall asleep mentally.
Life can do that by causing the biological trigger that make one fall asleep happen.

>>49618184
>>49618137
>>49618149

You Can use the symbolism of Death To Inflict the Little Death or rob a target of energy. Which is like Sleep. It really depends on how much you can convince the ST that it works.

>>49618157
Enervation and Weakening is under Death. You can make them really tired I guess

>>49618198
>The Little Death
French is not the language of the Supernal.
You might as well name your dog Lightning, and ask if Forces and fuck with it.

Though yes, you can use Death to leech their body of heat and render them unconscious or kill them.

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>>49591071
You rage, you lose.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fhpXrrLBsI

>>49618225
>>49618209
>>49618198
>>49618184
>>49618157
>>49618149
>>49618137
>>49618100
>>49618089
>>49618023
>>49618012
Draining Willpower through Death is a possibility. Not quite the same thing, but it would likely inflict a Tilt. Perhaps something like Beaten Down, to reflect the extra effort required to keep from dropping motionless in a depressed slump.

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>>49591071
Not mine but my players. I started them off as shovelheads, made them roll for their clans, gave them a 24 hour period of lost time and then turned them loose after a car accident. They were free, ignorant and loose in a Camarilla city with no idea what had happened to them.

Then they had a necromancer show them what happened during that time and the Hitman with a heart of gold was able to follow his own trail and witness the actions that he took while they were assaulting the haven of the Ventrue Primogen. He killed a seven year old.

>>49618225
>Human beliefs and cultures are the same as personal semantics

Sleep like the dead. Petite Mort. Asian ideals of temporal nocturnal death to deal with actual death.

Its there, you just got to work for it. Other Arcane do it better. But you can make a case for it working.

>>49618427
There is a link between Death and Sleep. Romeo and Juliet. The Posion that made her sleep in a dead like state.

The Eternal Sleep The Dirt Nap

Not to mention if you just wanted to go with pure biological function. You can leach the energy to such a point were they do fall asleep.

Mechanically I can see this as a spell. Primary factor as duration, withstood by stamina + powerstat ???

>>49618472
>Romeo and Juliet. The Posion that made her sleep in a dead like state.
That's literally what Suppress Life is.

>>49616569
Hahahahahahah how is spell tolerance real nigga hahaha just close your eyes hahahahaha just stop using the spell LMAO

>>49618565
>That's literally what Suppress Life is
No, in 1e Suppress Life temporarily killed someone, suppressing all life signs and putting them into a coma-like state.

In 2e, it merely makes your body physically appear as if dead. So if you run around while the spell is active for long enough, you'll look like a zombie.

>>49616686
Why do you always get so butthurt about pattern scouring? It just isn't a big deal whatsoever, and it has nothing to do with the ST.

>>49618621
Because I once chose to play a Mage that didn't own a Hallow, and had to rely on Pattern Scouring for mana, and it turns out that taking damage in exchange for three mana is rough.

>>49618593
I'm pretty sure it also stops you from moving.

>>49618472
The Literal real world Science is just as important as the symbolic acrobats some people pull.

Kind of like a axis between straight forward and esoteric.

Matter Forces Life Spirit Mind Time Prime Death Fate Space

Life Forces Matter can be pretty straight forward with their application. Mind Spirit and Time are kind of in the middle there. But for the more esoteric Arcane its a little harder to define: Prime Death Fate Space

>>49618703
>taking damage
Your house rules are irrelevant.

>>49618721
Are you about to tell us you don't know about the option to scour your own pattern for mana?

>>49618703
>I'm pretty sure it also stops you from moving.
Nope.
Practice of Veiling.
It's an illusion.

Ever tried playing a certain theme as a Mage like casting certain kinds of spells bit not others bit end up making improving a spell that is not in your character theme. Like I made a thyrsus who specializes in plants but you end up turning into animals or controlling animals because the situation called for it.

>>49618841
Nope.

Suppress Own Life, 2e, turns you into a corpse.

You have to set a trigger event to turn it off. It's all there in the spell description, dudeface. You are, for all practical purposes bar decomposition and rigor mortis, a corpse. No running around for you.

>>49618703
>I'm pretty sure it also stops you from moving.

It does, but what >>49618593 is talking about is the after-effect of the spell. While it's active, you're a corpse - no running around. But once the spell ends, you still look like a corpse for a little while - longer if you were under the spells effect for a while.

>>49618892
I don't see how the practice of Veiling is capable of a 1KHO...

>>49618966
>1KHO

Translation?

>>49618979
If you succeed on casting that spell on someone, and as written it isn't withstood, they're instantly "unconscious".

Slap on some cheap reach for area effect or advanced targets scale, and you can render hordes of enemies temporarily Dead for a short period, tie them up, then deal with them later when you're ready for them.

Plus, as being dead doesn't permit thought, it's impossible for them to cause Dissonance while in such a state, leaving it as a perfect counter for Sleeper witnesses.

Quite simply put.
My fucking ass I'd let any player get away with all that bullshit with the practice of Veiling. Which is about hiding something from the purview, or using the purview to hide something.

>>49618721
I... what?
Scouring your pattern is taking 1 Lethal damage or one point of Physical Attribute damage (which heals as Lethal). You get three points of Mana in return.

>̶>̶4̶9̶6̶1̶8̶8̶4̶1̶
Y̶e̶s̶.̶ ̶I̶t̶'̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶ ̶i̶l̶l̶u̶s̶i̶o̶n̶ ̶b̶e̶c̶a̶u̶s̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶'̶r̶e̶ ̶n̶o̶t̶ ̶a̶c̶t̶u̶a̶l̶l̶y̶ ̶a̶ ̶c̶o̶r̶p̶s̶e̶.̶ ̶B̶u̶t̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶s̶e̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶u̶r̶p̶o̶s̶e̶s̶,̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶b̶e̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶i̶n̶c̶l̶u̶d̶i̶n̶g̶ ̶s̶t̶i̶l̶l̶n̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶a̶ ̶l̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶p̶u̶l̶s̶e̶.̶

>̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶m̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶ ̶t̶e̶m̶p̶o̶r̶a̶r̶i̶l̶y̶ ̶s̶u̶p̶p̶r̶e̶s̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶b̶j̶e̶c̶t̶’̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶f̶e̶;̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶u̶b̶j̶e̶c̶t̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶f̶o̶r̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶i̶n̶t̶e̶n̶t̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶p̶u̶r̶p̶o̶s̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶s̶ ̶t̶h̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶s̶h̶e̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶d̶.̶ ̶A̶l̶l̶ ̶p̶h̶y̶s̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶y̶m̶p̶t̶o̶m̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶s̶e̶t̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶a̶n̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶s̶o̶u̶l̶ ̶a̶p̶p̶e̶a̶r̶s̶ ̶a̶b̶s̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶f̶r̶o̶m̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶o̶d̶y̶ ̶t̶o̶ ̶m̶a̶g̶i̶c̶a̶l̶ ̶s̶e̶n̶s̶e̶s̶.̶
"̶L̶o̶s̶s̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶m̶o̶b̶i̶l̶i̶t̶y̶"̶ ̶i̶s̶ ̶a̶ ̶s̶y̶m̶p̶t̶o̶m̶ ̶o̶f̶ ̶d̶e̶a̶t̶h̶.̶
Fuck me, the errata calls out that it doesn't drop people into comas. Why do you hate me, Dave. I'll just add Reach and cast it as Weaving

>>49618925
No it doesn't.

>>49618987
1. Suppress Others Life is a Level 4 death spell.
2. To cast this, you need to successfully grapple past their defense, then succesfully cast past their resistance.
3. The spell ends immediately if the target is harmed or attacked.

And this seems OP to you?

What sort of a shitty GM are you?

Or does it offend your delicate sensibilities to discover the notion that you can hide something (like someone's life) against their will?

And finally, I believe you meant:

>1HKO - as in 1 Hit Knock Out.

>>49619038
>Suppress Others Life is a Level 4 death spell
How about you get with the program, and realise that everyone else here is talking about 2e, not 1e.

>>49619020
>No it doesn't.

>the errata calls out that it doesn't drop people into comas

Seriously? They changed this:

>The mage can temporarily suppress
his own life. While in this state, the
mage is well and truly dead. The physical
symptoms of death, other than
decomposition, set in (the onset and
passing of rigor mortis, the receding of
the gums and the skin of the scalp and
fingertips, the pooling of blood at the
bottom of the body). The mind and
spirit are absent.

and this

>The mage determines a trigger that
will wake him from this state (such as
being struck or having a dog bark within
earshot). Otherwise, he is dead until
such time as the spell’s Duration runs
out. Once awake, his Social rolls are
penalized by –1 for every four hours he
was under the spell’s effects (up to a
maximum of –5). A character who looks
like a walking corpse likely causes terror
and repugnance. Penalties are reduced
by one per hour after waking, as the
mage regains his natural complexion.

To mean the mage isn't essentially a corpse while the spell - which is designed to make the mage look like a corpse - is active?

>>49619020
>or
The point is that you don't HAVE to take damage like the other poster implied. He's pretty retarded for taking the actual damage instead of the entirely trivial attribute damage. Mana is simply not an issue for Mages no matter how you spin it, unless you're doing some world altering shit.

>>49619053
Ah, my mistake then.

>>49619055
2e. Not 1e.

>Suppress Life (Death ••)
>Practice: Veiling
>Primary Factor: Duration
>Suggested Rote Skills: Subterfuge, Medicine, Academics
>The mage can temporarily suppress the subject’s life; the subject appears for all intents and purposes as though she is dead. All physical symptoms of death appear to set in and the soul appears absent from the body to magical senses.
>+2 Reach: By spending a point of Mana, the mage may cast the spell reflexively in response to something that would reasonably cause the subject’s death.

But still. You could probably cast it with as a Weaving spell with a Stamina Withstanding to put people into comas.

>>49619060
Attribute damage is not trivial, and is still damage.

>>49619109
>>49608243

>>49614907
>https://sites.google.com/site/princessthehopeful/home
Huh.... after skimming chapter 1 I am suddenly I'm picturing a Princess as an antagonist for a game.

>>49619135
Yes, and it's been pointed out how that doesn't work nearly as well as you're making it out, and is far from the easiest solution. It also exists in that "I have all the Arcana I need for any situation" white room theorycrafting arena.

I'd like to not require Life 3 to shore up my Attribute damage.
I'd like to not have one spell slot less to use before I need to Reach.
I'd like to not have a spell I've relinquished cause problems
I'd like to not do the equivalent of stabbing myself with a knife just for some mana, since I play reasonable characters who don't want to cause themselves pain.

Scouring is a [second to] last resort, not your first choice.

>>49619170
A Princess of Tears would make for an interesting antagonist.
Teenage girl who's the reincarnation of ancient nobility of a bygone civilization who will cause suffering and despair in the real world for the sake of keeping the bastion of Alhambra from falling deeper into darkness.

>>49619191
You're the one conjuring up some improbable bullshit about one die of penalty in some physical tasks of your choice bearing disastrous consequences for a Mage.

>>49599764
>How does their suits morph into regular clothes when they shift?

So, like a bunch of the minor-character vampires from Jojo's Bizarre Adventures, then?

>>49619191
Actually I was thinking a Magical Girl troupe who are targeting the PC's because their good, and the Magical Girls good aren't lining up.

>>49619333
That's a bit run of the mill, but it works.

>>49619248
It doesn't even have to be fucking disastrous. It's still fucking Attribute damage. Most reasonable, rational human beings do not want to take damage, especially when TAKING DAMAGE IS NOT NECESSARY.

Christ, what the fuck is wrong with you that your first thought is "let me gimp my character, then waste resources fixing that gimp, when I could really just do something far easier instead"?
You're like the guy who gets trapped in an elevator for two minutes and already starts thinking about who he's going to eat first.

>>49619370
>do something far easier instead
Yeah, let me just whip out a hallow or kill a living creature that I conveniently had in my pocket. Easy. Hurting myself is too icky though.

>>49619398
The entire source of this ignorant tangent was how it's not Hubris to make a Sacrifice in The Sundered World because an animal sacrifice is the safest way to get mana and that animal's life can protect The People by giving the Wise the strength to go above and beyond in service of them.

In the modern era, though, you are not living in an early agrarian society, and there are entire systems of currency based around guanxi of mana and the usage of Hallows. Mages are also not faced with danger from monsters on a near constant basis, and need to be less guarded and are capable of more caution.

If you seriously need three mana in a pinch, you've already fucked up. You've already boarded the "well, my wisdom's fucked and I'm just letting shit happen because I can't plan for shit" train.

But meanwhile, the responsible Mages will be elsewhere, managing their mana in a more reasonable way than cutting themselves at the last minute because you don't know how to be a Mage.

>>49619471
>it's impossible to scour your pattern ahead of time to keep a constantly high supply of mana
You are stupid as shit.

>>49619514
If your needing to scour period then something went sideways and pear shaped. And the stream of shit hitting the fans is enough to fertilize all the corn fields in the grain belt.

Otherwise a smart mage never has to scour once. Because he's got a hallow, and a supply of tas on hand, or a supplier, or a hook up, or a familiar, or one of the other many sources of mana that have been discovered since the Sundered world.

And yes you could Scour in the sundered world but it was one of the STUPIDEST things to do. You were making yourself easier to kill for 3 mana that even if you were preparing in advance, you weren't preping days in advance but hours. Because you didn't have access to all the advanced knowledge systems as a caveman that modern men have. Some magics were invented because Mages thought "hey I wonder if I can reproduce a cellphone's effects" People living a world without the concept of instant long distance communication don't think about it.

So yeah more than likely the wisest thing to do in a primitive culture like that, where wondering the forests is likely to get you killed while looking for that Hallow is to sacrifice a goat and two doves.

>>49619654
You are theorycrafting too much. Not every mage will have a pile of tass on hand or a hallow or the arcana/appletrees needed to make use of it.

>>49619654
That powerful a Hallow is a powerful source other Mages will fight over.
Supplies of Tass are rare, must be acquired in-game, and most can't use them, or they're perishable.
Suppliers? Hook up? This is the manifested fucking glory of the Supernal realms in material, physical form, not fucking weed you get in a little plastic bag. They will make you pay loan-shark level interest, if you can even FIND one.

Yeah... The other sources of Mana. Those bountiful other sources.
Which involve blood sacrifice, use of a Praxis, stealing from others, or your much maligned Pattern Scouring.

Pattern Scouring is an unfortunate fact of life for a Mage running on empty, or who is willing to make personal sacrifices to keep his tanks at full.

>>49619654
>even if you were preparing in advance, you weren't preping days in advance but hours.
Why assume that Mages generally lack the foresight to keep their mana pools full?

A player in my game acquired 168 male chickens which would have otherwise been processed into nutritive meat-bone flour and created a device to sacrifice them in an occult-industrial way. She plans to do so while casting Shifting Sands and to overreach by +168 (and spend, over multiple turns, 168 mana in mitigation from all the sacrifices) to move back a week at a (chance die) of Paradox risk.

There is nothing in the rules prohibiting this. What do I do?

>>49619853
there's a few things you could do here. You could tell her "Fuckin hell this is some minmaxing munchie shit", or you could take her "creative" use of the rules in stride. 168 sacrifices is a ton and that's bound to have some negative side effects, many, many spirits of murder, maybe incidental God Machine contact as the massive loss of Avian life triggers something, dunno what edition or kinda setting you're running. You could do something as simple as having her anger a rank 5 spirit of avians with her wanton disregard for chicken life.

>>49619853
You say she can't, and reduce the bonus to what you find appropriate.

>>49619853
+1 Reach rewinds you back a scene, but it can't be taken multiple times. You need Corridors of Time (Time 5) for that.

>>49619853
>>49619911
If you're willing to let that player pull it off within the rules, have them use Supernal Summoning. Let them summon an Arcadian DeLorean with fondness for drumsticks.

>>49618137
>The Little Death

That story in the Vampire core is still hilarious

Speaking of hubris what y'all think of the 'devouring the slain' rote? What hubris level is it to use it on ghosts? Dead or dying people?

>>49619853
A supernal summoning would be easier.

Consequence is your tool to deal with pc hubris in game and out. Ask yourself how you want the story to flow. Perhaps she's pissed off the local consillia for an unsafe rewind and has to now perform three services for the hierarch, maybe she angers a spirit of time and is stuck in a time loop until she can appease it, maybe a butterfly effect occurred and she erased a lover/friend/family member form existence, etc.

>>49620619
>Speaking of hubris what y'all think of the 'devouring the slain' rote? What hubris level is it to use it on ghosts? Dead or dying people?
ghost? nothing
living? 4-7 "deliberate and premeditated murder and violence that leaves victim long term injury"

>>49619853
El pollo Diablo.

>>49621879
You're not taking me alive

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>>49619911
???

>>49594049
1e, but I keep on intending to get round to updating it to 2e.

>>49619853
tell him he's an asshole. limit him to his full fuel limit. Gnoise1 10 points. Then have a Demon counter spell the shit out of it, because it'll cause a huge temporal ripple in the local area. ULTRAMEGACHICKEN

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>>49622586
The rules explicitly say he's not.

>>49622474
Darn! I was thinking of something else. Sorry.

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>>49622637
The rules says He can do Something. He's still an asshole. These two ideas are not mutually exclusive

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>>49622637
>a single animal

>>49622858
>>49622586
>>49619882
>Being this autistic

>>49619853
Let them do it. Let them try, at least.
If they put that much effort into doing something, they clearly want to do it.

Given the occult-industrial link, though, I wouldn't shy away from a possible God-Machine Angel appearance, or interference from Demons, if you want to make it more difficult or have complications.