So how edgy is it, on a scale of 1 to edge, to make magic in

Not everything that causes pain is edgy.

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>>49560804
>On a scale of 1 to edge?

Dark Sun

That's why the setting is post-apocalyptic.

>>49560887

Dark Sun ruins the concept by making it too closely entwined with the 'plot' of the world.

>>49560996
By that you mean it creates a justification for it that isn't just its edgy and brutalz?

>>49561015

It is irrelevant either way. You can justify anything with fucking anything, I don't mind the 'edgy and brutalz' but all the artwork is brown trash and there are themes of overly edgy stuff and the whole class warfare thing going on. I also don't like the over emphasis on magic users in general in DnD, and especially not in dark sun.
>Oh the world is totally fucked because of EVIL MAGIC USERS
>And the only way we can save it is with the help of the GOOD MAGIC USERS

What about the other classes or peoples in the world? Why are all the super rich guys sorcerer-kings? The focus is too specific and therefore boring. To quantify HOW magic fucks everything up is also kind of lame- specifically it just kills wildlife, doesn't act as magical radiation or anything or act as cool justification for weird monsters in the woods or the existence of demons or whatever.

Also nature being objectively good/positive is another gripe I have. I just don't like the setting. That one tabletop game where magic is 'alive' and gets all corrupted is far more interesting IMO.

>>49561058
>That one tabletop game where magic is 'alive' and gets all corrupted is far more interesting IMO.
Apparently not interesting enough to remember its name.

I do agree that natural = morally good is just pastoral and luddite fear mongering.

>>49561268
>I do agree that natural = morally good is just pastoral and luddite fear mongering.
Yaknow what would be fun: a setting with magic as that evil nature-killing force and then everybody techies up because it's using absolutely natural processes to work.

>>49561058
You don't undertand Dark Sun at all and are just spamming buzzwords.

>>49561058
>Also nature being objectively good/positive is another gripe
Nature in Dark Sun isn't objectivly good. It's just neutral and its the only "divine" presence left on Athas.
>specifically it just kills wildlife, doesn't act as magical radiation
It fucked up the world into one big desert.
>And the only way we can save it is with the help of the GOOD MAGIC USERS
This isn't a thing.

Fuck, most people in Dark Sun aren't even fucking magic users. There Psionicists/Some flavor of warrior usually. Very few people can even use Arcane magic, defiling or no.
>Why are all the super rich guys sorcerer-kings?
There are super rich houses that aren't sorcerer kings, the sorcerer kings are kings because they were the people that fucked the world to begin with.

>>49560804
Depends on the setting

>>49560804
It's not edgy. That's really cool. Making the system work right and not just "heh DM fiat"

What game system? Maybe different classes of spells effect different bits of nature?

>>49562052
Preservers are a thing though. Magic isn't inherently bad in Dark Sun; defiling is, and defilers have suppressed knowledge of any other way to use magic

>>49562095
It's not objectively good so much as it doesn't destroy everything around it for power.

>>49562095
Preservers aren't really 'good magic users', though. They just aren't life-draining nutbars.

>>49560887
I don't know what it is, but I absolutely hate the post-apoc fashion.
>half-naked
>leather straps
>funky hairdos
>spiked everything

I mean I can get the whole scrounging up whatever weapons and armor you can find, and thus getting a really ramshackle look, but all that other stuff just really shifts my pantaloons.

>>49562112
>>49562140
Then the only way to save things is with the help of the NEUTRAL MAGIC USERS

Anon's complaint is still valid. Magic and the battle between magic users of different persuasions is central to the plot

>>49562173
>Then the only way to save things is with the help of the NEUTRAL MAGIC USERSE
Except that's also false, preserves are just one faction. It's hardly central to the "plot" the background mabye. But it's hardly front and center especially when most PC's are going to be Psionicists and gladiators.

I don't understand how that can ever be edgy. It can be used by a DM to excuse anything, which is terrible storytelling sure but not "edgy".

Magic is inherently something... "weird". Divine, ethereal. Volatile perhaps. It makes sense that magic comes at a price, whether tame enough that it only drains your mana temporarily or harsh enough that any magic invariably corrupts your soul or something. I always understood magic as a force of change.

Something that turns one energy into another. Human emotions can be extremely powerful so that being used as a fuel source would be very interesting, things like being so grieved about the death of a pet that you might actually be able to bring them back to life, because that emotion is so strong for example.

I don't think it's edgy at all to make magic drain from nature's lifeforce, so you may be able to cast fireball but its like salting the earth. Shit withers around you the more you use it. This is basically what Tales of Xillia is about, Elympios uses spirits to power technology. No spirits = nature withers = World dies.

>>49562194
And the PCs also won't be able to affect the overall setting. Playing in dark sun usually means you're just trying to survive in a hopeless world, largely because the affairs of sorcerer-kings are too far above the PCs

>>49560804
>So how edgy is it, on a scale of 1 to edge, to make magic in a setting drain and corrupt the life force of nearby people and nature itself? Creating freak storms, droughts as well as monsters as the more it is used?

...

Fossil fuels are magic?

>>49560804
It's not edgy, but you and your players should be on board.
If they wanna go Thief, Fighter, Wizard, Cleric, telling them that the Wizard can grow an extra arm every time he casts or that the Cleric can get sucked into hell every time he prays is gonna be a bit hard on those two.
There should be no minor spells like cast Light or whatever, but bigass scary ones like Life Transfusion and Risky Resurrection (if it fails, both the caster and the target die and raise as wights).

In other ways, it's a pretty good idea. Magic's like radiation, causes fallout where it happens, people know this, spellcasters are burned at the stake. Lots of big things can happen, such as the discovery of good magic/worse magic, fighting back an invasion of otherworldly creatures, hunting rogue mages...

>>49562213
Its not edgy edgy.
But more like comprehension failure edgy.
If Magic really causes freak accidents in the weather system, and drains the local life, it just means the mid level mages will setup towers on desolate mountain peaks, to acquire freedom from watching their nearby wildlife die.
It also usually fails to try to map out HOW the weather system gets fucked, because in most cases: A severe imbalance will just even itself out once enough magic has been used to reverse the disaster.


>>49560996
Dark Sun runs the concept by the logical conclusion, by making Magic a mid to high tier power source.
It also runs on the idea that once escalation of power gets around, the post Apocalypse wars will be far larger in scale than the pre Apocalypse wars.

>>49560804
Meh.
So long as you represent it properly, it shouldn't be considered edgy.

Song of Swords has done that with the Dark Pyromancy update recently, and I quite liked the Idea and execution so far.

Dark Pyromancers have a stat of how much 'Fire' (Magic points, basically) they can store, and can fill that by drawing from their environment (any excess fire above their threshold adds to a chance of self immolation if not expended immediately).

>Drawing Fire
>In order to perform a Spell, a Dark Pyromancer must “Draw Fire” from the environment into
>himself. Drawing Fire is easier the more life the surrounding area has. The act of Drawing Fire
>takes a full Phase, and is an Art+Willpower Test rolled at TN determined by the surroundings,
>as shown on the table below. The amount of Fire drawn is equal to the number of successes on
>this roll.
>Drawing Fire causes damage to the environment. Every point of Fire extracted from the area
>creates a 1 yard region of desolation around the Pyromancer in which nothing will grow for at
>least 2-3 years. People or animals in this area will become nauseous. Those with weak
>constitutions may even grow sick. The ill may perish.
>Additional Fire can be drawn using Rituals and Sacrifices.