Heavy Gear General: Skeleton on a mech

since I was an idiot and forgot to add it in, Other DP9 games are welcome to be discussed here

If a general doesn't even break 40 posts before it dies maybe it's time to give it a break.

>>49527588
The thread before that lasted about 200+ posts. Just not a huge following of people with DP9 but we are getting more people interested in it. So will continue to shill

>>49513330
*muffled VOTOMS theme playing in the distance*

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>>49527588
Yeah. This is the same pattern as the previous runs. It dies down after a few generals. DP9 doesn't have the following or release speed to keep generals alive.

That said, quick question about the system.
Do people find the multiplication for damage a problem? Like a deal breaker when it comes to RPGs. Can't think of many other games that require multiplication during play.

>>49528145
It's not a "deal breaker" for me, but when you get into extra rules that affect the MoS (like the default RoF rules) it can get a little clunky.
Plus I don't see any reason you couldn't get the same idea from a MoS based damage threshold system without multiplication. From what I know about new Blitz it does just that, and last thread an anon mentioned working on rules to port the Blitz damage system into the RPG.

>>49528345
>when you get into extra rules that affect the MoS (like the default RoF rules) it can get a little clunky.
Agreed. I simply discard the "add RoF to xDM option" It scales weird with larger weapons and means more multiples to remember.

>last thread an anon mentioned working on rules to port the Blitz damage system
That was me. I like the idea of having MoS be more directly applicable without the damage multiplication step in between but I'm trying to work out an equivalent for the MoS + PEN - AR = Damage for characters. Since they have Agility, Build and Armour.

>>49528468
I'm really not that familiar with new Blitz, I'm actually reading up on some stuff as we're talking here, but from what I see I'd actually love to see an RPG built around Blitz's dice system. It'd be like old silhouette or Btech where you could incorporate the wargame directly into the RPG.

But anyway, how does defending work in Blitz? I see attacking is 2+mods d6 compare to skill, take highest die face and add successes from other dice for check total. Is the only defense in Blitz armor and stacking penalties to the opponent's attack roll?

I wanna help you brainstorm but I'm literally just now learning Blitz. And since I'm at work I'm kind of going back and forth looking at quick explanations on the Internet and this thread on my downtime, but want to keep this thread alive until I can get home and really sit down and read the core rules.

>>49528649
basically if you roll higher and have a higher number of defense than the attack you do not get hit. The armor is soak

>>49528671
Ok, I see now. Well obviously Agility is used for Defense tests, yes? Then armor should function just like gear armor and build like gear DC, yes? I don't see why you couldn't just use the formula straight, then. Maybe some kind of wounded status for characters that are hit but not critically wounded?

>>49528145
I wanna know where I can get that mini anon.

>>49528776
That's a model kit, a big resin kit. I don't think they make it anymore but you might find it googling "kodiak garage kit."

>>49528776
http://store.dp9.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=86&product_id=31

>>49528811
yesssss

>>49528732
well being crippled in blitz gives you the state of you lose 1 dice to your throws always.

>>49529720
Gears also lose the ability to move at top speed and get a penalty to detection, infantry only don't get those because it's assumed there are some uninjured squaddies to pick up that slack.

If we're talking single character scale, maybe split character HP into Vitality/Wounds like Gears have Hull/Structure. Damage comes from Vit first, when Vit runs out you're "Wounded" and get -1d6 to checks, can't move at whatever top speed is called for characters (running speed?), and get a penalty to perception (detection) range?

Then when Wounds run out you're dead.

>>49528145
I've never seen that before, but that's super helpful. I was wondering how the pilot sits in the bigger gears.

I know in Striders they generally sit more like a helecopter crew, if they have more than one operator that is.

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>>49527545
Can someone briefly describe Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles and what each system has going for it? All I know is that they're not as crunchy as Mekton Zeta

>>49530643
They're not BattleTech.

Also, they're from Canada.

>>49530643
Do you want RPG or miniatures?

>>49530838
RPG

>>49530920
Mechanically they're very similar if I remember.

Themeatically rather different. Heavy Gear is much more real robot, where the mechs are smaller(average is about 14 feet tall) and fill a role somewhere between infantry and a light vehicle. It's also land based.

Jovian Chronicles is soace fun times and similar to Gundam. Mechs are far bigger(someone posted a picture last thread showing the size difference between and Gear and an Exo) and tech is more advanced.

I haven't played Mekton(although I did back the Mekton Zero Kickstarter and am still waiting for them to finish the damned book), so can't compare it there. The old RPGs, in my opinion, had way too many skills and attributes to keep track of, but then it's possible I'm just dumb. I also don't care for the multiplication for damage, especially with the new, slicker, combat resolution the new version of Heavy Gear Blitz(the minis game) uses.

I'm sure others more versed can go into more details.

>>49530966
>and fill a role somewhere between infantry and tanks

Fixed

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>>49530561
>I was wondering how the pilot sits in the bigger gears.
I know most gears have the pilot's head in the gears head area. I think a few like the Razorback are different with a smaller sensor turret.

>Heavy Gear and Jovian Chronicles
System is the same for both. Silhouette system. Fairly fast, skill-based system. Generally regarded as fairly lethal for personal combat. Uses a threshold system instead of hit points, so if an attack deals enough damage you take a flesh wound or deep wound, or possibly even die instantly if the attack was powerful enough.

Heavy Gear is not-VOTOMS while Jovian Chronicles is not-Gundam. Though that sells both setting short as they are pretty detailed with a lot of love put into both.

>>49530974
Well there's stuff between those two. I feel like Striders fit between Gear and tank.

>>49530982
Yeah, I just wasn't sure if the larger Gears did the whole pilot head in Gear head thing. I figured maybe being bigger they didn't.

>>49531040
>I also don't care for the multiplication for damage, especially with the new, slicker, combat resolution the new version of Heavy Gear Blitz(the minis game) uses.
You seem more familiar with the Blitz damage. Do you know how you would convert between personal scale and vehicle using that damage system? That was always one nice thing about the older rpgs and wargame was the ease of conversion.

So giving Blitz RPG a go. I'm trying a system where you basically divide the old xDM by 10 to get the new damage rating. So pistols end up around 1 or 2, rifles/LMGs around 3 etc. Strictly speaking we would get 8 for a LAC but we can fudge that since we have a new value for it. Might be a bit weird cause with a good 5 or 6 a pistol could damage a gear.

>>49531040
I think they do it just for convenience, I know that most gears can pop the sensor panel of the sensors get damaged and the pilot can look out the face, leaving them slightly protected by the rest of the gear's head. On gears like the Razorback, where the Gear's head is a small sensor pod forward of the space for the pilot's head (giving it a somewhat hunchbacked look) this is impossible, so if the sensors go out the whole cockpit hatch has to be opened or the pilot is just completely blind. The trade off, though, is that a headshot won't kill the pilot in a Razorback.

>>49531230
I think the x10 scale modifier might still work. Small arms won't be able to damage gears and gear weapons will turn personel into a red mist, and you can use weapon traits to signify anti-vehicle weapons without going too crazy with damage on big guns.

>>49531286
NewBlitz already gives us a damage rating of 2-4 for machine guns which are used as regular infantry weapons. So x10 probably won't fit anymore.

>>49531326
1) What kind of machine guns? A "machine gun" is a much bigger weapon than an assault rifle.

2) are there any other special rules regarding infantry attacks vs gears?

3) is this infantry unit damage representative of a whole squad coordinating fire? From the summaries I've seen every other rule regarding infantry indicates their tabletop stats are abstract representations of squad coordination.

>>49531326
How about doubling/halving? Seems like it comes up with clean numbers. If machineguns do 2-4 on vehicle scale then they do 4-8 on character scale.

>>49531381
1. Previously they have been 7-8 mm machine guns.
2. I don't think so. Only special rules for being attacked.
3. Could be true. That said snipers use PEN 5 sniper rifles, and those are probably not combined fire of any kind.

In any case I think the Blitz numbers may not leave enough room at the bottom for interesting RPG work.

>>49531410
>How about doubling/halving? Seems like it comes up with clean numbers. If machineguns do 2-4 on vehicle scale then they do 4-8 on character scale.
Might work, but then it kind of skews the impact of MoS relative to the weapon's damage. As in MoS would be worth more on the vehicle scale than the character scale.

>>49531495
How about make an "anti-vehicle" weapon trait that lets character scale weapons damage normally on vehicle scale?

So, said machineguns do 2-4 damage on character scale, 1-2 damage on vehicle scale, and if they use special anti-vehicle ammo (which you can assume the Blitz infantry models are using by default), they do 2-4 damage on BOTH character and vehicle scale?

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>>49531427
>That said snipers use PEN 5 sniper rifles, and those are probably not combined fire of any kind.
Those are also Infantry Support Weapons (*IS) and not Infantry Weapons (*IW), meaning they're not just scoped rifles, but big mother fucking anti-vehicle rifles like pic related.

One thing that should be considered is that the Blitz war game should be considered "vehicle scale." Therefore all the infantry stats should be considered their "vehicle scale" stats, weapon damage is Vehicle scale damage, armor is vehicle scale armor, and H/S is vehicle scale H/S.

For H/S: Infantry models in Blitz war game are also always squads (3 models/base[?], H/S: 2/2), or Teams (2 models/base[?], H/S: 2/0), which is clearly an abstraction of some kind. If there's anything we can take from it is that a single nameless NPC soldier has roughly 1 Hull in vehicle scale.

Now looking at just the weapons: Most infantry have LIWs, which are Light Infantry Weapons. If we look at the various different kinds of squads, we see that infantry weapons are ABSTRACTED: Only special weapons are either Support weapons or Heavy IWs, and usually come with special traits, models with normal assault rifles appear to be LIGHT infantry weapons at BEST (2 base damage at vehicle scale), GRELs have HIWs but those are big motherfucking heavy assault rifles made for vat-grown genetic super soldiers and shouldn't even be considered "normal" in any way, Black Talons appear to be the only infantry with MIWs as regular weapons, and they're fucking Black Talons so we can probably infer they're using some kind of special advanced assault weapons.

>>49532157
Continued:

This all means we can probably infer that most character scale weapons probably wouldn't even register at vehicle scale, and military assault rifles come in at best as Light infantry weapons, and what would on character scale be special, HEAVY weapons are Medium and Heavy Infantry Weapons or Infantry Support at vehicle scale.

I think the double/halving rule is fine. It would mean a character scale 7mm assault rifle does about 4 damage base, with heavy weapons like 12mm rifles, grenade launchers, medium SAWs, various other crew-served weapons, ect doing 6-8 damage, and very heavy weapons like, say, a 20mm anti-material sniper rifle, or a .50cal machine gun doing 6-10 damage at character scale.

>>49531495
>As in MoS would be worth more on the vehicle scale than the character scale.
Don't multiply MoS, just the base weapon damage.

Im not familiar with nu-blitz but I personally have never had trouble with the old way of doing damage either.

>>49532157
>>49532172
Another thing, in HG3e a medium flask vest/suit (armor 25-30) was enough to equal the damage of a 7mm assault rifle (dam x25-x28 depending on the make and model). Most infantry models in Blitz beta have 2 armor, the same as the 2 PEN of a LIW. So if in old HG Medium Flak's baseline protection was equal to a 7mm assault rifle's baseline damage, and Blitz's infantry are likely equipped with Medium Flak (it being the baseline armor for infantry since forever, as well), and most of Blitz's infantry have armor equal to the baseline damage of a LIW, we can infer in Blitz RP Medium Flak armor should provide 4 Armor to a 7mm Assault Rifle's 4 damage.

To convert old RPG equipment it'd probably be better to work along that baseline than trying to use some formula to convert directly. Just the fact you're going from a multiplier to a flat number kind of messes up that math anyway. But using the 7mm AS = 4 PEN baseline, then light and medium pistols/SMGs do about 1-2 PEN, heavy pistols/SMGs do about 3 PEN, sniper rifles do 4-5+ PEN (a lot actually kind of fit the /10 round to nearest whole idea). Things get kind of wonky when you get into heavy weapons, but I think that can be cleaned up with special weapon properties instead of dicking around with PEN values.

Armor looks like it'd fit neatly with Light Flak Vest/Suit being about 1 and 2 AR respectively, Medium Flak Vest/Suit being about 3 and 4 AR, but Heavy Flak and Turtleshell gets a little wonky probably being in the 6-10+ range, but Heavy Flak Suits and Turtleshell armor were always "that is fucking bullshit" strong (Turtleshell's base armor was fucking 60).

>>49532787
Though thinking about it, since MoS works differently in Blitz Beta, you might even want to add 1 to all the ARs to roughly equal the fact that armor in Sil could neutralize an MoS 1 attack from a weapon with equal or less DM.

>>49528145
>>49528345
Clunky is exactly how I'd describe it. I liked it because it was unique, nothing I've ever seen has been quite like that, but it was strange. Usually rules choice is for either balance, realism simulation, or ease of use, and it doesn't fell like it accomplishes any of those.

New blitz is way simpler, to break it down...

Attacked rolls V defender (Gunnery V piloting), both rolling 2d6 base with modifiers (a MAC at ideal range rolls 4d6, a heavy rotary cannon [previously VHAC, now HRC] rolls 6d6 at optimal while stationary, cover adds defence dice, etc). Skills are a goal number (A spitting cobra is gunnery 3+), and every success adds 1 to your roll. MOS is added to damage of the gun, armor subtracted out, then any special rules applied (armor pen lowers armor but doesn't strictly add damage), and viola! Damage points.

SO, for example: VHAC spitting cobra fires at hunter. Cobra rolls 1, 2, 3, 3 5 and 5. 5is highest, but there are 3 other successes (3, 3, 5) so now he has an 8. Hunter was in the open because derp, but was top speed, so 3d6 against his piloting (4+ iirc). Hunter rolls 3, 4 and 4, so gets a 5. MOS is 3.

HRC is dmg 8, becoming 11 after MOS bonus. Hunter is armor 6, so takes 5 points of damage. It's not dead, but it just got the ever loving shit kicked out of it, stripping all it's armor and tearing up it's guts. 1 more point of damage will kill it.

Very light models like cheetahs have 4 arm, troopers have between 5 and 7 arm, big boys have 8 or 9. Tanks might have 12 or 13. It all might sound confusing but god is it so much easier.

>>49533596
>New blitz is way simpler, to break it down...
It's good that Heavy Gear is getting a system more suitable for a wargame. Blitz! always had the problem that it was half RPG rules and then attempted to play much bigger battles with those rules. Though I have to admit the two separate resolution methods threw me for a bit. Plus the new system is like a mix of Silhouette and Storyteller with how it determines rolls.

I found RPG rules work fine, but they aren't intended for anything like the scale Blitz aimed for.

>>49533461

>Karaq Wastes

The exiles called, they said you can keep the stupid desert.

>>49534029
You know HG came out 5 years before Homeworld, right?

I wish I could play my Ashantite EW operator again. I actually got her canonized as a Black Talon combat group leader, but nobody I knew played HG any more and I drifted apart from the community. What a shame.

>>49534029
Karaq is a name of a village in Iran, actually.

>>49533461
This reminds me; Peace River is shaped like a giant peace symbol and is home to the largest weapons manufacturer on Terra Nova?
What, do they not have IRONY on that planet or something?

>>49534115
Paxton Arms actually started out as Paxton Mining according to the fluff and the city was still called Peace River.
It didn't diversify into the arms trade until much later, after it's fairly benevolent and idealistic founder's death.

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>>49534065
Would love a Heavy Gear strategy game by those guys.
>Engage enemy gear squad
>"We caught 'em napping"
>"This is cakewalk"
>"This is cakewalk"

>>49528649
The Defense Skill is Piloting. So when the other guy rolls to attack you roll piloting to defend. Simple enough. Armor is the second line of defense. The first is piloting your machine away from the danger.

>>49534065
>Ashantite
Sluuuuuuuts.....

>>49528345
>Plus I don't see any reason you couldn't get the same idea from a MoS based damage threshold system without multiplication.
Wonder if rather than hitpoints something like below could work. Avoid multiplication but without using NewBlitz hitpoint system.

1 = Superficial wound/Superficial Damage
2-3 = Flesh Wound/Light Damage
4-5 = Deep Wound/Heavy Damage
6+ = Instant Kill/Overkill

>>49534115
It got nuked too (antimatter bomb, but eh).

Also: si vis pacem, para bellum.

>>49534226
Yeah, I milked the slut angle for all it was worth. I did make sure she did her job, though, and I figured having a half-naked radio operator shake her ass for the pilots coming back in from the field was a nice morale booster.

>>49534137
If they just made a hex-based game with the RPG rules (automated by an engine) and animated sprites/3d models, I'm pretty sure they could make a mint.

>>49533995
The only thing I miss about the new blitz rules is that electronic warfare isn't as comprehensive. Previous edition it seemed way more intense, with blockign airstrikes and lock ons and stuff. This edition it still does all that, but the simplification of it and the general improvement to direct fire weaponry on top of the nature of 'combat group-support group' means taking a dedicated recon squad is probably a thing of the past.

THe unit compositio system is really cool, too, but they REALLY REALLY dropped the ball. Like. bowling ball on an infant. I'm a wargamer and number cruncher at heart but this shit is seriously overwhelming. It's like... Separated by chassis, then tells you in that profile what each variant can be in (example being regular jager can be in general, strike, fire support, almost anything, but an ATM jager is FS and strike only), which is awesome conceptually, but it sucks trying to build a unit and having to flip through like 8 pages just to compare what you have available, points costs, etc. It would have been so, so much better IMHO if they had a "general purpose" page, a "recon" page and so on. As it stands, for the south, military police units actually have their own page, which really puzzled me at first since I was looking in the mamba and iguana tab for them.

>>49534418
I liked the entire EW layer, but it probably was too complex.

>>49534548
So did I, I think they just simplified it to keep it in line with the new rules set. It didn't lose much and, honestly, I'm probably just being overly nostalgic. I was a huge fan of iguanas...

>>49534569
Black Mambas were badass; IMO the best advanced trooper gears if you discounted the glass backs.

Iggies were always discount Black Mambas to me, though one of my RPG characters piloted a Loudmouth Chatterbox and used it in peacetime to run a TN-wide radio show.

But I liked Dartjagers best. High ground speed + Improved Offroad made for a hell of a racer. I called mine Binky because it could go anywhere.

>>49534645
Oh yeah, I always loved mambas. I mean, all the southern gears were just awesome. Iguana's were great at EW and half decent in a fight, unlike the northern counterparts made of paper.
One V one mamba's always seemed to shitstomp jaguars because jags were just too general but mambas are perfect: tough, fast and savage as long as they don't get flanked (which, hey, thats why you have other units).
Cobra's are cobras. Whats not to like?
And sidewinders. Mmm. Loved having one in every GP squad. I never got to use one, but I did like the idea of Gila's, too. a HAC on a scout? MMmmm.

It just seemed like the southern gears were more specific and capable at their roles than other faction gears, and i liked that.

literally the only thing i don't like is the mamba head, which I converted to look like a cobra head with ease.

>>49530966

how does the new blizt damage resolution works.

i dont mind multiplication and i like how it feels mechanically for calculating wounds and stuff.

on the RPG characters had a stamina stat. a weapons damage was multiplied to calculate total damage and compared to the folowing values.

STA/2+Armor=light wound
STA+Armor= deep wound
STA*2+Armor=Instant Kill

i like how personal armor was just additive making it more likely to help against light wounds but less against Instant kills.

I also liked how easy was to set armor deterioration by substracting the value of the armor.

and mechanical was just the same but with a big Armor value and no Stamina.

I really liked the math behind that design.

can anyone go into detail how this compares to blitz?

>>49534848
Damn, Cobras. Brings back memories. I take my previous statement back; Darts competed with Spits for my favorite Gear.

Also, aren't the Northern EW Gears Cheetahs, i.e. 2fast2furious (literally; they're the only canon Gear in the game with a +2 Maneuver rating, and then you have the Strike Cheetah variant...)

>>49534896

I dont like how this looks like hitpoints. i liked that in the silcore if you tracked something its because it had an inmediate effect on the gameplay.
>>49533596

>>49534898
Cheetahs and ferrets (buttwheels!), both of which were made of tissue paper and carried blowdryers for guns. IIRC, last edition, against iguanas, they couldn't win electronic warfare or a firefight, but would win a race.
I have a soft spot for Black Talon Eagles too. My intro to the game was with a pod squad who let me play asingle eagle versus a squad of hunters to teach me all the game mechanics. Then reversed the roles, making for a SERIOUSLY cool experience trying to flank this deathbot.

>>49534896
see>>49533596
long story short its gunnery V piloting, MOS added to gun damage. Modified damage has armor subtracted.
Gears have 2 damage numbers, presented x/x, typical sturdy gears are 4/2. After 4 damage, it's crippled and has penalties. After the other 2 damage, it's wrecked.

>>49535092
Ah, Ferrets, the most adorable Gears on the planet. I didn't pay too much attention to Cheetahs or Iggies so I don't know their respective strengths, but yeah, the DPG they carry is basically more useful thrown than fired.

And it seems your Pod Squad was better than me; I fucked up my first and only experience trying to teach others the game. It ashames me to recall it.

>>49535169
Oh my god, he was a total sperg. Jagerwolf. He frequents a convention I have been going to for years, and I stumbled into him.
Year one, i was curious but he came on too hard and I was turned off by the car-salesmanness.
Year two, I gave the demo a shot and ended up buying a south fire support squad off him at retail.
Year three I brought an actual painted army to play against him and he fucking roflstomped me because I didn't know the new rules "field manual' came out. I still remmeber how pumped he was to play a full game, and despite wrecking me, explained as he went and helped me make no stupid decisions. Still wrecked me, but god damn was he pumped. That was the year I met the podder Ghostrider, who I guess worked with DP9? Or for? For a while? I ended up converting some models for him, bobcats and mammoths. Fun stuff.

I haven't seen him since, because I started selling at this con. Kinda sad, but I don't have time to hunt him down anymore...

>>49535230
HG is a small community, he probably wanted to add more people. It's hell having thousands of bucks worth of minis and nobody to play them with.

>>49530643

Mechanically id say they are the same system. they are 2 diferent settings with 2 diferent stats.

Heavy Gear is more realistic on its vehicles but it has FTL and less realistic spaceships. mechs are smaller, and it takes place in a mostly desert planet where north and south fight for controll of the desert´s resources untill earth comes back to take on the colonies. (Titanfall has a similar story) there are other planets but the main focus is Terra nova.


Jovian Chronicles is a setting more realistic on space travel and ships, gravity is generated by centrifuge and down is defined by the ships trust. the big ships are reminicent of babylon 5. jovians conflict its about an independence war as the colonies fought for independence after earths economy colapsed for a few years. this gave origin to diferent factions in the solar system. and the mecha are basically not-gundams.

both settings are good reads if you are into well tought out settings. and they cover just enough for you to fill the blanks with your own creativity.

>>49535271
Oh totally. Once I got to know him, I knew he was passionate about the game and just wanted more players to join him. I remember when I came to his table and started unpacking jagers and cobras, he just about lost his shit. Someone made a jab at him playfully and, with a laugh, he responded "Dude, I've been waiting years for someone to bring an army."

Wrecked, yes, but it was fun. I'm hoping to be economically stable enough that one day soon I could go to some of the big wargaming cons. I know Jagerwolf goes to templecon, and I'd love to play him on more even footing now.

>>49535339
Well, if you were in Singapore I might actually start painting up my Black Talons...

>>49535021
Well, there's still an effect. The Hull, the first number in the vehicle's damage, work pretty much like the extra armor boxes from Blitz, the ones that were labeled as "S", in that you don't really lose anything for those being blown off immediately other than being closer to the danger zone. But once all your Hull has been blown off you are considered Critically Damaged and lose one D6 from all skill rolls, can't go top speed, etc. while you're running around at just your Structure damage remaining.

and different vehicles have Hull/ Structure in different amounts, like a Jager has 4/2 while an Iguana is 3/3

It's not as in depths as the Light, Heavy, or Critical damage system previously, yeah, but I think it works pretty well.

So, out of Curiosity has anyone used Silcore to stat out Mobile suits?

>>49535366
Well, I'm kinda lucky on that front. I'm a New Yorker, so I'm close to the homeland of HGB. That's the only reason I think I've met a WHOLE two other players. One who was easily in his sixties...

A shame, but I think this kickstarter and excellent plastic kits might help them survive in a FLGS scenario, though unlike most thriving wargames, Blitz seems to have most of its bases covered in models. Nucoal was a cool addition, but it seems like for a mini's game to survive, it needs to have a semi constant flow of models...

What talons do you have? I typically ran, what was it, an interdiction squad? 4 eagles, and an owl, with a heavy fire support naga to back them up. It was a fun list.

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does anyone have any tips on giving demos for the tabletop game?

>>49535521
I had a full 2000 point army, basically an excuse to order one of every single Talon model.

It was semi-RP in that I was building it to model an entire BT combat group. But I lost interest in painting them up.

>>49535523
Something like what >>49535092 suggested would be good. One stronk Gear vs 2-3 weak ones, then reverse the situation. Try to show all the various elements and shit.

>>49535521
where abouts in new york are you anon as Im also a filthy yankee.

>>49535803
Upstate. North of albany. Nearest FLGS i know of are Zombie planet and Dirty goblin.

>>49535505
Yeah, I did that for awhile actually.

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>>49535551
Hmm... do you think 2 or 3 CEF combat frames vs a King Cobra would work? Or possible a Blazing Mamba?

My options are currently limited until I can get more painted, since I'm trying to just use my painted stuff for demos because no one wants to do a demo with a bunch of unpainted metal

>>49535887
Honestly, no. Part of what makes the talons so beast is multiple actions a turn on top of literally the best gear in the game. DO you have any MHTs for your CEF? One of those versus a handful or mambas or four or five jagers would be pretty good, but still not ideal because, well, low end guns have more trouble cracking a tank than a talon.

>>49535887
I do have MHTs, and some LHTs, just not painted yet.
Also, the King Cobra does have 2 actions and a Skill Point

>>49534115
The HG universe has plenty of irony. Just ask the planets Utopia and Eden...

>>49537001
But it's slow and has a terrible piloting skill. Maybe the field armor buff would help it, but still. It feels a bit off to me as a comparison. I suppose you should just try it out a few times and see how it works out? I mean, the King just tears shit apart, I'm just concerned that 3 frames would be too many and 2 frames would be too few, and neither really shows off the difference between a big badass model and troopers imho. Frames start with pretty solid weaponry and mid points cost.

Maybe a Naga versus 3 frames, or a king versus 3 or 4 hunters/jagers? That seems like it'd get the idea across while offering one player a high end murderbot and the other actual flanking and tactical knowledge. I feel like the best example for this is basic grunts versus something savage, for the reference of high end low end, and to showcase what each type of model can do (sure, a king can shred gears like hendrix shreds guitar, but 4 jagers could theoretically outflank him, target lock for each other, etc mob tactics)

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>>49535523
First make sure the FLGS you are playing at can order DP9 products. If they can't they won't be too hot on you giving demos there. After all unless they charge a table fee like a pool hall does, they aren't going to be happy if your getting people hyped up about a game they can't stock.

2. Paint your shit! If you paint your SRA green that's fine, but remember that the new players need to be able to look at them and see two distinct factions in color.
3. Bring a small simple force for each of the 4 main factions (North, South, CEF, Caprice). I'd recommend something like 4 Hunter/Jager with 2 Mamba/Jaguar. This will give your new player a good taste without over loading them quickly.
4. Bring stat cards for easy reference. and make sure your gears are clearly labeled for easy identification. Things like paining a number probably a roman numeral on the base will help the new player.
5. If you are the new players opponent don't go WAAC! For the Love of Gaming don't go WAAC.
6. Take the time to explain the basic rules to them before you start actual play so it doesn't feel overwhelming. After they finished their first game, explain that you did the basics. Show them the rulebook, and don't be afraid to have some post-its sticking on on some things like "EW" and say that the game is simple to learn, but offers a lot of variation and changing out a gear for somenting else can change everything. Let them see your collection, as you explain why you might put an IGGY in there.
7. Close the sale. After they tried the demo (or two, or three, probably trying to find the faction they like best) ask them if they would like to start off small, but functional. A GP squad, and an attachment. Maybe something like a pair of spitting cobras.
8. Support the Sale. Introduce them to others in the area who play.

someone was asking for some bat reps, so here is some I found. Only three so far but he does a decent job doing them

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLzrPO7KIAtwVp1UQd_yYVICN6V4LlXn29

>>49535820
mine, are Mind Games and Read the Story; play the game. I'm up by Syracuse sadly.

>>49535862
which ones did you stat?

>>49538780
Yeah, that'd be like a two hour drive, sadly. can't easily plan that heavy gear make out party...

>>49535887
>>49535523
By the way, never actually said this, but nice painting. Crisp. Any chance of some shots of that spitting cobra?

>>49535505
That's basically what Exos in Jovian Chronicles are.

>>49540165
Thank you. I'm currently at work, so I can't I post any pics yet, but I can when I get home.

And actually that's a blazing mamba, I haven't gotten around to building my spitting cobras just yet

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>>49534569
I always loved Weasels. Retarded high detect so they could spot through anything and massive ECM rating so they could shut down any normal unit's targeting with ease.

Plus they're based on the Ferret chassis.

>>49541147
New plastics, I take it? I haven't built many of mine yet. Gonna make a few flamm cobra's and jagers, though. Maybe an mp mamba or two. I still have a shitload of unbuilt pewter south...

I see it as a mamba now. Angle is just right that i missed its face shape.

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>>49534898
>and then you have the Strike Cheetah variant
DP9 admitted "yeah Strike Cheetahs were bullshit". That armour, plus +2 manoeuvre rating and enough SMS speed to reach the +1 band on open ground was rough.

I gather the high Man gears aren't so untouchable in NewBlitz though.

>>49537085
>Just ask the planets Utopia and Eden...
Eden at least was named that before they went and fucked it up. It used to be nice I hear. Actually reading Utopia's background it sounds similar.

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I always had a soft spot for this universe as well. Pic is not my collection, though I do have almost every book back at home (and nearly every JC book).

>>49541466
what is tribe 8?

>>49527545
>Terra Nova is the original Portuguese name for the land which would later become Canada
>80% of the cities share their names with a Canadian city, township, or location like a national, legislative or municipal park

Went a little heavy on their references

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>>49542048
Post-apocalypse fantasy/horror RPG.

>>49542253
>Went a little heavy on their references
>Tribe 8
>Vimary is Montreal Island
>Capal, the City of Hate (the stronghold of the Beasts) is Quebec City cause fuck those guys.

>>49537192
King vs 3-4 Jagers sounds pretty good. You could give each of the Jagers unique loadouts and paint them differently to let the players fuck around with different game mechanics.

>>49537577
Also what this guy said. What's WAAC though?

>>49542253
DP9 IS based in Canada, though, and pretty much the entire Southern faction is ruled by the Southern Republic, which is the Napoleon-style "nightmare of Europe" military empire.

Also, did they ever conclude the 2nd War of the Alliance plotline? Please spoil me.

>>49542571
>Also, did they ever conclude the 2nd War of the Alliance plotline? Please spoil me.

Nope. The last book with plot was the Southern Republic book. We still don't know what the NLC is up to.

I like the South. A lot. You have places like the old-school French Empire SRA, its poorly funded gang of misfits the MILICIA (even the acronym is cool: MILitary Intervention Counter Insurgency Army), the Japan/Vietnam/etc. inspired Mekong Dominion, the high tech strider nation of the Humanist Alliance and the Militant Not_Dubai ESE.

The North seems super bland in comparison. Help me and others learn to love the North.

>>49542545

Win
At
All
Costs

>>49543314
The north has religious fanatics, ultra captilists, gangwarefare, and basically the fediration from starship troopers

>>49543867
That's what I did in my demo game. My shame is deep.

>>49543890
Hmm. What do you like about the North?

mobile frame zero Chubs look best.

I'm trying to sub in a Blitz-esque damage system into regular Sil to avoid multiplication while still using base Sil/SilCore rolling system. In particular thinking about this for a fantasy Silhouette game I'm hoping to run.

So using the MoS + DM = Final Damage and the below tells you what that results in.

Final DMG 1 = Superficial Wound
Final DMG 2+ = Flesh Wound
Final DMG 4+ = Deep Wound
Final DMG 6+ = Instant Kill

Some rough ideas for weapons damage (very rough and I'm not a /k/ guy so) are:
Light Pistol:+1 (9mm or something)
Hvy. Pistol: +2 (magnum stuff)
Light Rifle: +3 (intermediate cartridges)
Hvy. Rifle: +4 (full-power stuff)

One issue is that anything above +4 is an instant kill all the time (without armour or other damage reduction). Also wondering what to do with Build and Unarmed Damage. Adding Build to melee damage or using it to just reduce damage makes it very similar to Agility due to the way MoS also adds to damage. Might switch to d8 to open things up a little.

>>49535887
My plan for a basic demo is a squad of Hunters/Jagers and a single Grizzly/Cobra as a support unit for basic games. That way each side has some basic troopers and a heavy hitter.

For more experiences gamers I'd probably do two combat geoups and introduce some other mechanics. For anyone else keep it to the basics of "here's how stuff moves, this is how ranged/melee combat works, here's how terrain plays a role."

>>49541310
Strike Cheetahs are still in NuBlitz, or are you talking about them being broken in the RPG?

>>49544807
>Strike Cheetahs are still in NuBlitz, or are you talking about them being broken in the RPG?
In the RPG they were +2 Man, fast (for even more bonuses) and had 14 armour.
In Blitz they got nerfed to 12 armour.
I'm not familiar enough with NewBlitz to know how they work there, though I gather NewBlitz doesn't have Manouevre ratings as such nor different bonuses for speed bands like the old rules.

Dare I ask if someone wants to run a game of HG RPG?

>>49544854
In NuBlitz the Strike Cheetah has 5 armor(standard Cheetah is 4 and a Hunter is 6).

If it were to move at top speed with SMS it could go 18 inches in a turn and be damn hard to hit.

>>49544220
Well for one I really like their mechs, the more square and blocky shapes are more appealing than the souths round ones. The hunter for instance I like more than the Jager.

I am also a fan of religous orginizations, so the warrior monks and chaplins Norlight has in their units appeals to me, the western protectorate is also fairly cool, with their more elite but outdated tech. They have a few scottish highlander things as well according to some in the rpg with their claymores.

The north also has the benefit of not basically being under the heel of only one faction, while not equal in their council you can't screw over the other factions in the north due to the votes.

In the south you have the republic basically going, fuck the alliance and destroying them.

So it is a combination of really likeing their mech designs, for instance they have some of the best paratrooper gears. This is in addition to the lore and other things behind the north.

>>49544702
>One issue is that anything above +4 is an instant kill all the time (without armour or other damage reduction)
If it helps, most weapons that you categorized as +4 and higher are one hit kill on unarmed targets in vanilla SilCore anyway.

Silhouette was NOT a forgiving system. You wore armor and used cover or you died, period.

>>49545028
>unarmed
Unarmored, I mean.

>>49545028
>If it helps, most weapons that you categorized as +4 and higher are one hit kill on unarmed targets in vanilla SilCore anyway. Silhouette was NOT a forgiving system. You wore armor and used cover or you died, period.
That is true. Still thinking about how to do armour. Would like to do something other than just subtracting damage. Maybe an all or nothing armour penetration system of some sort. Either it blocks the hit or you penetrate and do full damage.

>>49545014
like a retard I used mech instead of gear throughout

What order should I read the JC books in?

>>49545391
If you're talking about the background/lore probably any order is fine.
The Rulebook intro is a good place to start though, then you could grab whatever Planetbook interests you.

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>>49540165
finally back from work. 11 hour days blow.
Here's a better shot of the Blazing Mamba if you're still around.

>>49541289
Yeah, my Kickstarter stuff finally came in. I'm currently in the process of magnetizing all the large Caprice mounts for my friend so the Cobras as still just kind of waiting their turn.

>>49537577
Wow, thank you for the in depth outline.
The shop I'm gonna be giving them at is cool with it, I've done HG demos there before, I just don't think they took very well (I partially blame my models not being painted back then which I've remedied at least for enough models for a demo I think) and people being of the mind that they've already sunk so much money into some other game that they don't want to start another...
My initial idea was to do a small 1 combat group battle between the models shown here >>49535523

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>>49545528
and this is just all the south that I have painted thus far.

>>49539346
I don't remember.
Mostly the OYW era suits. I remember stating Heavy Gundam if I recall.

>>49545537
>>49545528
Wow, those are fucking amazing. Digging the purple shoulder guards.

>>49545537
>Purple Shoulders
Very VOTOMS.

>>49545768
IIRC there's a canon Red Shoulders unit in the Southern Republic.

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>>49545845
It's certainly common among the newly painted miniatures.

In JC is there a faction of notZeon?

I had a lot of downtime at work today and had some thoughts on the Nu-Blitz RP idea:

1) Attributes and Skills: NuBlitz replaces the +/-# modifiers with dice bonuses/penalties, so maybe attributes should be represented by +/-#d6 modifiers to relative skill rolls, with 0 average, +1d6 being exceptional, and +2d6 being near-superhuman, and +3d6 being the pinnacle of perfection. Skills could be just like the skills in NuBlitz and count backwards from 6 (untrained), "average" at 5+, "professional" at 4+, "expert" at 3+, and probably maxing out at 2+.

2) Character Advancement: With such low number ranges there's not a lot of room for lots of character advancement. Silhouette took care of that mostly by having Emergency Dice to sink XP into, we can and probably should import the Skill Point rule (bennies exchanged for rerolls) for PCs and let them buy SPs with XP, and/or we can just straight up import the Sil Emergency Dice rule. You can also maybe have a "feat"-esque system modeled after the Veteran and Duelist Upgrades to sink some XP into.
I also had a (somewhat blasphemous) thought to maybe scrap XP completely and make character advancement milestone based.

3) Character Scale "Hull"/"Structure": I kind of like the Vitality/Wounds name for the stat, and going along the double/half train of thought you'd end up with characters having 8 notHP divided into the two. I was thinking instead maybe you could say humans are the "Gears" of Character Scale and they instead move up the chart to the Gear line and go from 4 to 6 notHP at Character Scale. Of course exceptionally tough/weak characters and the like change the ratio of Vitality to Wounds.

4) Bennies: As I already said NuBlitz already has a bennies system via Skill Points which can be spent on rerolls, I don't see any reason you couldn't import this into NuBlitz RP, might have to change how they refresh, though. Command Points should be something generated by a Leadership skill, kind of like SilCore.

>>49546181
Yes, sort of. CEGA is kind of a mix of Zeon and the corrupt iterations of AEUG, and STRIKE is kind of like the Zeon Remnants.

>>49546559
except with the implmentation of exos, they've been playing catch up this whole time to all the other factions and getting their feet under them when it comes to the tech, though the Cerberus is one sexy sexy beast.

>>49546573
To be fair, after the Feddies started fielding Gundams and MSs based on Gundams, Zeon was pretty much playing catch up since the OYW. CEGA playing catch up actually fits the mold of the 0080 time period JC is based on, just replace "being the only ones with mobile suits until they got vastly overtaken in tech, where they then played catch up with the exception of a few exceptional prototypes" with "not having Exos at all then playing catch up with the exception of a few exceptional prototypes."

>>49546219
>>49544702

it would be nice to start compiling this into a document.

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>>49527545
How Large is Terra Nova, somewhere in my head there's a memory of a 36'000km Circumference, (Compared to Earth's 40'075km Equatorial and 40'007km Meridirectional)

I'm trying to compare the two rectangular maps for a sense of scale

I think I got the number 36'000km by looking at the grid markers on this map and assuming the little ones were at one Mm^2 Each

>>49546611
true that though I cant decide weather the Venus Bank is just a zanscare empire rip off or not

>>49548424
If I remember correctly it is slightly smaller than earth, maybe more on the scale of venus

>>49527823
museru~

So how fun would a RPG campaign be if the players were all part of a Southern MP unit?

Basically Patlabor the RPG. I just think fighting in an urban environment with Gears would be interesting.

Also frag cannons, frag cannons for everyone!

>>49552542
It can be fairly fun; the thing is though that if they're, say, Southern Militia their gears are trash and half their operating is what they steal or gamble for.

So there's a *lot* of hand-greasing both ways going on.

>>49552667
That'd be half the fun.

>>49552667
Well give them Iguanas and Mambas, those are good.

>>49544702
This is basically Mini Six's Wounds chart, not that that's a bad thing.

>>49547931
I'm just having a go at replacing the original Silhouette's damage system. I'm leaving everything else (rolling mechanics etc.) as per original Sil. The other anon looks to be going more for BlitzRPG compatibility.

>>49555232
>This is basically Mini Six's Wounds chart, not that that's a bad thing.
Not familiar with Mini Six. Does the system basically work in that game?

>>49555444
>Not familiar with Mini Six. Does the system basically work in that game?
For the most part. It runs into what's called the "Blasterproof Wookie" problem (the original d6 game was used for Star Wars before becoming a "generic" rules set) where exceptionally tough characters are effectively invincible, but I don't thing that'll be relevant to anything you're doing.

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>>49550138
Venus is 38'025km equatorial circumference, 36'000 wouldn't be too far off, weird that I can't seem to find the actual listed planetary stats for it, just its orbit

Assuming 36'000, this is a rough comparison of Earth to Terra Nova

>>49555726
>"Blasterproof Wookie"
I assume this comes from Toughness or Build or equivalent attribute reducing damage so much that normal weapons can't penetrate the DR.

>>49555861
Pretty much, either you couldn't penetrate the DR at all or any hit that did penetrate couldn't score a big enough MoS to do anything more than a superficial wound, which (at least originally) didn't add up to anything or being anyone closer to death. You couldn't even "death by a thousand cuts" an exceptionally tough character.

>>49555444
There's a d6 adaption of Heavy Gear, though I've never seen it used.

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>>49548424
>>49550138
>>49555826
Some planetary facts for Terranova.

Diameter
Terranova: 12,420 km
Earth: 12,742 km

Circumference
Terranova: 39,018 km
Earth: 40,030 km

Land Area
Terranova: 411.9 million km^2 (85% of total surface area is land, remaining 15% is water (lakes and stuff))
Earth: 148.9 million km^2

Gravity
Terranova: 1.09 g
Earth: 1.00 g

Day Length:
Terranova: 37.2 hours (36 TN hours. A TN hour is 62 minutes).
Earth: 24 hours

Year Length
Terranova: 260.7 Earth days (168.2 TN days)
Earth: 365 Earth days

>>49556101
Oh sweet, I'll update the comparison in a bit, thank you very much for the find, which book is that?

>>49556090
I've tried using it.

Looks better on paper than it does in practice.

>>49556210
Life on Terranova, Planetary Basics, pg. 5-6.

DP9 were pretty detailed about this sort of thing back in the day so I was sure it had to be in there somewhere.

>>49556243
IIRC weren't some of the writers Engineers, and that's why shit got super sciencey and detailed?

>>49556411
At least one guy was. The others appear to be arts guys and a lot of them work at companies like Activision or Relic these days.

Has anyone cracked the TV formula for NuBlitz?

Think it would be possible to reverse engineer it to make a custom vehicle system?

>>49557477
Is there even a formula? In any case things have probably been tweaked a fair bit so any underlying formula might be hard to see at this point.

>>49558207
There might not be a formula but there has to be some kind of underlying pattern or logic to it, DP9 is usually pretty good about that kind of stuff.

Usually.

>>49558236
Maybe start by looking if a particular upgrade is always priced the same.

>>49556101
I love this sort of attention to detail. Shows they care about the setting by really fleshing it out.

Also means there's clear facts if people start writing novels. Although it raises the question of how time is told. I know a year is a cycle, but do they have a time telling system similar to Earth for hours and such?

>>49558594
There is a time system in life on terra nova

>>49558594
>Although it raises the question of how time is told. I know a year is a cycle, but do they have a time telling system similar to Earth for hours and such?
It seems like seconds and minutes are the same and they just changed the hour a bit to make hours fit the day cleanly.

They also don't have months. Just 42-day long seasons which they use instead of months. Then like us they use a leap year to correct the timing every 5 years or so.

>>49558713
Very cool. Thanks!

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>>49556101
Updated scale comparison

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>>49558756
If you haven't you should read up about the fauna as well. The Terranovan Companion has a section in the back about them.

>>49558594
The TN minute is the same as an Earth minute.

A cycle is divided into four seasons: Winter, Spring, Summer and Autumn (although I'm not sure which hemisphere has the priority), and each season is divided into weeks, which I believe are 7 days long.

The 36 hour-long day is a natural strain on humans, so there is a planet-wide siesta period during the day.

>>49558931
How densely populated is Terra Nova?

Is it endless wastes, even in wet areas or are town within flying distance?

>>49559097
>and each season is divided into weeks, which I believe are 7 days long.
Yep, Six x 7 day weeks per season.

>The 36 hour-long day is a natural strain on humans, so there is a planet-wide siesta period during the day.
LoTN says badlanders often go further and just divide the day into 2 x 18 hour days. Because any kind of outside work is pretty much impossible during badlands noon.

>>49559162
>How densely populated is Terra Nova?
Very sparse. The North has 78 million and the South 156 million. Even with most of that concentrated in the North or South temperate regions it's still super lower density.

Plus however many in the Badlands and smaller factions like Port Arthur.

>Is it endless wastes, even in wet areas or are town within flying distance?
North is grasslands and South is jungle and swamps (Not sure if that a valid ecosystem but that's what the book says). So not a wasteland but not densely inhabited.

Terranova is basically the same size as Earth so you can fly anywhere, but flying can be dangerous, especially in the Badlands due to big storms that can blanket areas.

>>49559097
>although I'm not sure which hemisphere has the priority
Isn't the axis of Terra Nova almost straight up and down in relation to its orbit?

>>49559192
>Because any kind of outside work is pretty much impossible during badlands noon.
Only Norlights and mad dogs go out in the noonday sun.

>>49559261
>Terranova is basically the same size as Earth so you can fly anywhere, but flying can be dangerous, especially in the Badlands due to big storms that can blanket areas.
There's also the fucked up magnetic field that makes navigation annoying, too.
There's a number of reasons "air superiority" isn't much of a thing on Terra Nova.

The main methods of getting around TN (besides just driving) is maglevs, caravans, and landships, IIRC.

>>49559324
>Isn't the axis of Terra Nova almost straight up and down in relation to its orbit?
Only 3 degree tilt. So not a lot of difference between seasons.

But that anon made a good point, which hemisphere's season is used for time-keeping? I'd say both hemispheres are unlikely to compromise so there's probably a North Summer/South Winter dual system going on.

>>49559367
The leagues weren't around forever. It's likely the seasons were decided by the first colonists based on wherever the first colonies were, and the system just stuck from there. Then one pole is just noted to have a slightly warmer/cooler summer than the other.
All things considered, the climate on TN doesn't change much between seasons.

>>49559456
>The leagues weren't around forever. It's likely the seasons were decided by the first colonists based on wherever the first colonies were, and the system just stuck from there. Then one pole is just noted to have a slightly warmer/cooler summer than the other.
That's a good point. Problem solved, nice.

Wasn't there also some weird way they calculate age on Terra Nova?

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>>49559516
>Wasn't there also some weird way they calculate age on Terra Nova?
They just count age in Cycles (Terranovan years). Cycles are shorter so the numbers are bigger than when counted in Earth years.

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>>49559585
>14yo is basically adulthood on Terra Nova
>CP is basically legal on Terra Nova.

>>49559782
In Canada the age of consent was 14 until 2006, now it is a tiered, and starts as so
Age 12-13 can engage in intercourse with partners up to two years older, but no younger than 12.
Age 14-15 can engage in intercourse with partners 5 years older, but no younger than 2 years less than the individual (See earlier entry)
Age 16 is full consent

Pornography is still illegal for consumption or participation until age 18, as is anal sex, unless you're married to the partner you're engaging with

Ultimately I think that the game devs, being based in Canada implemented a similar system

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_consent_reform_in_Canada

So it's a bit weird sure, but it's not as weird as it looks

>>49560158
"The same responsibilities and privileges as a 20-year-old" implies a lot more than just an AoC. It certainly makes it sound like 14 is the age of majority.

>>49560387
It sounds a bit like Game of Thrones where what we consider kids are required to do pretty adult tasks.

>>49561114
Given the harshness of the planet and life expectancy being about 60 years, yeah, it actually makes sense for the age of majority to be a lot younger for practicality reasons.

Man, Im sad my players decided to not go with JC(we're doing Degenesis instead) but I can live with it. I may try and slowly coerce one or two into play heavy gear if I can though.

>>49561806
>Degenesis
Slip bits of >>49541466 into it.

>>49561839

I actually might steal bits from Tribe 8 from it my players right now are in the concept stage though they all had builds they wanted to do from the get go. It's gonna be fun either way as they're all good chaps and I'm a post-apoc nut I'm sorely tempted for them either to deal with Hyberspania or Purgare

I propose a change to the OP pasta!

The Blitz Beta living rulebook actually has some nice fluff about the HG universe, summarizing all the basic info of the setting in one place, so it would make a great intro to the setting with the other books expanding on it after.

>>49559585
>>49559782
>>49560158

i think the age thing was mostly done so you could have dem teenage ace pilots characters without fucking the entire logic of the system. i think its a good way to explain why everyone is a shounen/shojo

i don´t know if Jovian Chronicles does the same.

>>49562573
They don't but I know at least in the Confederacy's fluff they encourage squads and aces to be a bit 'colorful'

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>>49562573
>i think the age thing was mostly done so you could have dem teenage ace pilots characters without fucking the entire logic of the system.
Are there even any teenage ace pilots in HG. Looking through the Character Compendium the youngest is about 20 Earth years. Though I guess the example gear pilot does look pretty young.

>>49562838
I imagine you start training young, though Im not sure how complicated a gear is to actually pilot.

So, whats so special about Tribe 8?

>>49559585
>>49559782
>>49560158

I tend to think of it in terms of the Old West. The Frontier was a harsh place and people had to grow up fast and take on jobs that would be considered far too dangerous for someone that age today.

Sex and relationship standards are probably closer to ours.


The Fridge Horror in this scenario is that Gear squads tend to have an APPALLING attrition rate.

The setting is based on Armored Trooper Votoms after all.

>>49564809
i would say its unique. unless i am an ignorant of similar settings. i like their mix of horror and mysticism. the focus on the Tribal nature of post apocalyptic societies. and the gruesome enemies the Players could face. i like reading the Z´bri books on how these flesh-crafting societies work. and how tribes are shaped by their worship of these deities. its pretty strange.

I use tribe 8 for ideas for my other games.

the only things i don't like are. wasteland canada (because as a non canadian i know no shit about canada)

and that the artwork is thematic and everything is rudimentary sketches so i have a hard time visualizing the horrors of the z´bri and the visual appearances of the tribes.

>>49562903
Doesn't a gear have an AI that becomes "smarter" the longer it is piloted?

That could be an incentive for young pilot to start on new gears so that the two can develop together.

>>49566460
Yea they learn, but some devolpe bad habits and they have to wipe them. Basically there are gear raisers, they train the CPU to do the things that are needed.

So think of pokemon but with gears

>>49566921
The books mention there are Gears that have learned to make rude gestures, learned to shake with fear at the sound of the rotors of a particular attack helicopter, and one Gear with near low-level sentience that hangs around a base like a pet, and helps clean and stuff.

It's a very advanced learning computer.

>>49569790
Didn't they say the CPU has the same intelligence as a dog? So it can learn basic stuff like patterns, sounds and so forth, but it can't learn super complex shit.

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>>49570155
It seems like a very different kind of intelligence. For the most part gear NNets do not initiate any action on their own (though there are a few cases of NNets doing an EVA-01 and moving to protect the pilot automatically). I think a big thing is that the pilot gets used to the minute ways that the NNet interprets commands and if they switch to a new NNet it kind of trips them up a little as they readjust.

>To a veteran Gear pilot, there is little more precious than the CPU of his assigned Gear. It often contains years of training and combat
experience which can save the life of the man behind the controls many times. One famous story recalls how a pilot, whose base was
under attack, ran out of the barrack and escaped to the nearby town with only his CPU in tow - while completely naked.
Also remember to pull your NNet out when you bail.

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>>49566460
>>49566921
>>49569790
>>49570155
>>49570375

Yes, according the fluff Gears should have their own skills but sadly that is not reflected in the rules at all. All skills are carried by the pilot and Gears are just equipment.

Really according to the fluff, Gears should work like the Titans in Titanfall.

That's one of the things that kind of put me off Heavy Gear. The fluff introduces all sorts of cool ideas that seem like they'll be loads of fun to play with, but then the rules Joss them or make them non-viable.

Another good example of this problem are the GRELs. If you think about the fluff for GRELs they seem like a neat player character concept. A cloned super-soldier without a war to fight, a discarded piece of war materiel. A GREL who has overcome their combat indoctrination would seem like an idea character to play, with lots of opportunities for pathos and growth.

Then the rules are written specifically to exclude this as a possibility.

>>49570803
Well hopefully the new rpg helps to work on that, potintially.

>>49570850
If it ever comes out.

>>49570803
>Yes, according the fluff Gears should have their own skills but sadly that is not reflected in the rules at all.
Yes it is. It's answers optional rule in the Technical Manual. Complete with rules for learning and improving skills.

>>49570803
>Really according to the fluff, Gears should work like the Titans in Titanfall.
Can't Titans fight independently? Gears are explicitly mentioned as not being able to do that.

>That's one of the things that kind of put me off Heavy Gear. The fluff introduces all sorts of cool ideas that seem like they'll be loads of fun to play with, but then the rules Joss them or make them non-viable.
I do agree that some rules for gear NNet quirks and traits would be welcome though. Stuff like boosting a characters gunnery because the NNet has gotten good at shooting, or at extreme levels of NNet/Pilot cooperation even extra actions due to the NNet being able to predict what you need etc.

>Another good example of this problem are the GRELs.
Yeah the rulebook says GRELs are not suitable as PCs but I reckon an all GREL game would be fine. I think mixing regular characters and GRELs would be bad though. GRELs are all exceptional at combat and would likely curbstomp any fight which would only challenge regular characters.

>>49570914
>It's answers

Tell me phone, at what point when I was typing "it's an" did you get the impression I meant "it's answers?"

Clearly phones are in need of an NNet upgrade.

>>49570938
>I do agree that some rules for gear NNet quirks and traits would be welcome though.
They exist.

Did any of you actually read any of the HG books?

>>49570914
>optional rule in the Technical Manual

BRB I'm going to dig out my copy of the Technical Manual.

>>49570971
I think the majority of us are slowly working through the books now. I am still in the middle of the tech manual as is

>>49571056
It was either the tech manual or the player's companion, maybe even the old GM guide?

Either way, yes, the rules did exist, but I'll give you they should have been in the core book instead of some random splat.

>>49570938
>I think mixing regular characters and GRELs would be bad though. GRELs are all exceptional at combat and would likely curbstomp any fight which would only challenge regular characters.

I beg to differ. Gear combat would really even things out since damage is calculated based on the Gear's stats rather than your own and no GRELs have Gear pilot as one of their default skills. Mixed GREL Human parties seem inevitable if you're going to run a Merc campaign.

>>49570914
Cheers.

>>49570971
>Did any of you actually read any of the HG books?
I didn't see that in the Tech Manual. Having a look now. I'm more of a JC guy originally.

>>49571108
>Gear combat would really even things out since damage is calculated based on the Gear's stats rather than your own and no GRELs have Gear pilot as one of their default skills.
I was thinking mostly of personal combat but you're right that vehicle combat does even things out a bit.

They still have good stat bonuses but the GRELs left on Terra Nova (assuming between Earth invasions) would not even have Frame piloting skills.

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>>49571306

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>>49571108

Type C Minerva's have Frame Piloting as a default skill.

i think GREL PC characters can be balanced by making non "programed skills" more expensive to learn.

>>49572099
>Type C Minerva's have Frame Piloting as a default skill.
Depends when your campaign is set as Type C were only produced after the War of the Alliance, once the CEF had seen the usefulness of combat walkers.

>>49572018
>nope.png.exe.doc.html

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>>49572018
>>49572493
I love Tribe 8 but it's the worst example of shit being spread all over the place. Was trying to find the 1E version of this with the pic but gave up. Still, I reckon gargoyles are pretty cool.

>>49572805
DP9 has always had a problem with spreading shit out all over the place.

See above with the Gear AI mechanics and people not knowing they actually did exist.

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>>49572904
True. I've read that tech manual a fair few times and just somehow never saw that bit.

But Tribe 8 has got to be the worst offender of the DP9 lines. It would have monsters and stuff in sidebars in amongst narrative text. At least the 2E book put them all in one place, without the pics unfortunately.

>>49572904
I do like multiple books to read through, but it does help if iti s all in one place for simplicity.

>>49573572
>I do like multiple books to read through
I love reading the DP9 books, ever since I randomly found Ships of the Fleet Vol.1 in a wargaming store. It's just when you want to reference something during play it can be hard to remember where the fuck that one paragraph was.

>>49571061
I remember getting them when they were on sale during the kickstarter. The Heavy Gear Designs book is my favorite out of them all.

>>49573572
>I do like multiple books to read through
It's not that there's multiple books, it's that important mechanics or information that should be in one book is instead scattered across like 4.

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Reading through Space Support book. For some reason I always have an image of Terra Nova as not really having any space assets.

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>>49574776

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>>49574785
That art for the Support Cobra is so awesome. Makes it feel so heavy

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>>49574785

>>49574780
To be fair they really didn't have much until the War of the Alliance, IIRC. It wasn't until after their war with the Earth fleet that they realized how important space assets were.

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>>49574798
I love the illustrations in black/white much more for that reason

>>49574823
God I wish more of the art was like this style.

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>>49574823
>>49574800

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>>49574831

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>>49574840

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>>49574806
That's true. I gather they are still ramping up their efforts in space when Earth comes back for round 2.

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>>49574856

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>>49574878

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>>49574891

>>49574823
>>49574831
>>49574840
>>49574856
Did Ghislain draw these or was it someone else?

I just remembered Marc A Vezina one of the old pod guys had a bunch of early concept art for HG and JC on his website, but the website's gone. Damn it.

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>>49574904

>>49574909
Can't say I know. The book doesn't have many credits...

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Old stuff from the second game

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>>49574976
Older Stuff from the first game
The resolution on this is really poor

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>>49574985

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>>49574988

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>>49574998

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>>49575148

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>>49575161

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>>49575169

>>49574985
>>49574988
>>49574998
>>49575148
>>49575161
>>49575169
>>49575180
The first game was my introduction to Heavy Gear. I used to spend hours playing it, more so the Instant Action mode than the main campaign, though.
The Gear customization was great, too. I loved building weird ass Frankengears because you could put together any combination of heads, torsos, arms, legs, and engines.

Also because of that game I used to think the snub cannon was supposed to be some kind of Gear sniper rifle (holy shit that thing had way better range than it was supposed to, and the damage 1-hit-killed almost everything). It really surprised me to see the actual game rules and find out that it's actually a mid range smoothbore cannon at best.

And oh man, I thought those live action cutscenes were the greatest thing ever. Looking them up on youtube they uh.... they don't hold up so well.

>>49574891
I love this for some reason

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https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IOQ-GF4rwCioXQ_gr_J7utyoP42KZIh8eZ4nJaiLpNY/edit?usp=sharing

Bumping with my shitty, rambling, stream-of-consciousness, brainstorming notes on the potential of a Blitz RPG.

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Kodiak Operations Seat

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>>49576986
>>49577018
Cockpits? Cockpits.

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GEAAAAAAAAAAARSSSS IIIIIINN SPAAAAAAAAAACE!

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>>49576986
My experiments with weapon damage in a MoS + DMG system make me think a multiplier for converting between scales might lead to some weird shit. Much like you wouldn't use a flat bonus to convert in old Silhouette. But I'll freely admit I only had a quick mess around with some numbers.

I think a good place to start might be defining in RPG terms what some of the weapons are. Then you can decide what you want those weapons to be able to do to characters.
LIW =
MIW =
HIW =
LIS =
MIS =
HIS =

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Does anyone have the Campaign book "The New Breed: Battle Before The Storm" It was the RPG side to the first Heavy Gear computer game

https://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/classic/rev_743.phtml

I can't seem to find it in the Mega Link

>>49577372
>My experiments with weapon damage in a MoS + DMG system make me think a multiplier for converting between scales might lead to some weird shit. Much like you wouldn't use a flat bonus to convert in old Silhouette. But I'll freely admit I only had a quick mess around with some numbers.
Weird shit is exactly what I kind of worry about as well. But I think you might be able to reach a happy medium if you combine the two ideas of flat conversion for some things, multipliers for others. Like for example only PEN and Armor multiply/divide, but H/S follows a set chart (thus people becoming the "Gears" of Personal scale and having 3/3 Standard H/S instead of 4/4).
Scaling is going to be like the one thing that's going to need the most playtesting.

>I think a good place to start might be defining in RPG terms what some of the weapons are. Then you can decide what you want those weapons to be able to do to characters.
This is a good idea, and >>49532157, >>49532172, and >>49532787 was pretty much getting into that. That's how I got the idea of "LIW is 7mm Assault Rifle" and "2 armor infantry = Medium Flak."

>>49577372
>>49577477
Here's an idea.
Fuck scaling with a formula.

Just note in a weapon's statblock what its Tactical Scale equivalent is, and if the weapon just isn't powerful enough to matter on tactical scale just have an asterisk note that these light weapons are useless against anything but infantry.

So like:
>Assault Rifle: Range: ##, PEN: ##, Burst: +1d6, Tac Scale: LIW.
>Pistol: Range: ##, PEN: ##, Tac Scale: *Only affects other infantry.

Another interesting way to come up with weapon and armor stats is to follow the "People are the Gears of Personal Scale" train of thought and draw equivalencies to the Blitz weapons chart as if they were infantry weapons. So like Auto-Cannons = Assault Rifles, Anti-Vehicle Rockets = Grenade Launchers minus volleys, ect.

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>>49527545
Skelemechs

>>49578048
>Two completely different skeletons
Don't tell Stompybot. They're convinced there's only one.

>>49527545
Sniper-Particle-Cannon Jerboa when?

>>49530966
JC has "heavy gear" sized stuff more or less, they're the Exo-Suits.

Fighters are size 8-10 usually 9 (a lancer without its mission pod is probably 8?) but Exo-Armors if I recall start at size 11. A heavy gear is usually size 5-6, with the two-man striders being 8s if I remember right.

It kinda sucks that there's no proper Einhander style AMBAC being used on fighters; no canadarms with weapons and thrusters or anything they can use, even though it would make so much sense.

>>49578311
So, like a grappler ship from outlaw star? Also the Hector and Fury are kinda in that vein as they're a purely space based exo-armor/

>>49574806
Actually they just didn't have much of a chance but had been steadily building them before.

Remember that they got cut the fuck off when earth abandoned them (earth took pretty much everything that could handle a jump back with them), so space infrastructure was decimated. They'd never yet had the chance to set up proper orbitals or really start their own production of spacecraft, and suddenly they had to worry about food and climate instead what with the supply lines gone.

By the time Earth comes back, the North and South HAD been mass-producing mass-destruction space drones and had a decent (for a single planet) number of military spaceships and detection systems up. Some earth stuff had had the chance to slip through over the years.

But when Earth finally comes back to invade, both sides were on the verge of "taking it outside", and it's those thousands of hunter-killers they launched that chased, blew up or delayed the majority of the invasion force. Were it not for their space assets, the war of the alliance would have been lost.

They kicked said production up another notch afterwards though.

>>49570375
As the gear gains experience one of the stats it builds up is "independence"

As >>49570803 states though, they really should be gaining their own skills to a certain point for this, but at least they can build up stats and start acting on their own. Even with what few rules are available in the old tech manual, the CPU could basically get +1 to every stat (those delicious +1s like accuracy), a tiny bit more speed and learn some mannerisms or macros of its own

>>49578311
Most Exo-Suits are significantly smaller than Gears, only slightly larger than a human. They're almost all power armor. There's one that's notable for being so large that it's nicknamed a "Mini-Exo-Armor" though, and I think it's about as large as a small Gear.

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>>49578432
More like an Endymion (that gun is held in a bigass claw that can reach forward above/below or behind and happens to plug into large weapons it tears out), or something else that's useful and less silly. After all it doesn't take *legs*, just the ability to swing your mass around. Some extendable heatsinks, reinforced sensor booms or laser emitters could all do the job just as well as "hands and feet"; possibly even better if their lack of humanoid form is taken advantage of to better distribute weight.

>>49578533
Granted the Kobalt was it is only basically a power-suit, but aren't Falcons and the like something like size 4?

>>49578540
True but then it wouldn't be !gundam

>>49578601
Not saying there can't be gundams, just that smaller units should be able to swing themselves around too.

>>49578657
Yeah I'll give you that, though aside from like the Falcon exo-suit there wasn't many power armor sized units that were meant to really go into space. And also there's the Brynhilder(?) that Venus secretly had started producing that uses Linear frame tech to pilot a fighter. How though is fucking mystery to me.

>>49577724
Thinking about this more, it does absolutely nothing to address vehicles acting at personal scale. Maybe just have two different ways to scale depending on which way you're going. Person acting at Tactical scale converts to *IW, *IS, ect equivalencies, and Vehicles acting at Personal scale covert by multiplying?

>>49578687
I thought there was weapons traits for Anti-infantry and Anti-vehicle already?

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>>49578556
Size isn't only based on height. Falconers have a large size rating partly because of the huge ass "wings," but they're not that tall. See left pic.

>>49578682
That's probably cost savings actually. The Linear Frame can be programmed for all sorts of stuff; you're just translating motions into command macros. Difference is, the linear frame can be made so average soldiers in good shape can become decent pilots - at least in terms of maneuvering - whereas regular controls still require a degree to use, though for someone with the brains required, those control waldo gloves and hundreds of buttons lets them have some incredible fine control, WITHOUT needing a massive cockpit you can literally run (in place at least) in.

>>49578744
There's Anti-Infantry, but that's not quite related to what we're talking about.

>>49578682
>though aside from like the Falcon exo-suit there wasn't many power armor sized units that were meant to really go into space
I think you've got that backwards, there's like two dedicated ground fighting exo-suits.

>>49578754
>dat Ryu

>>49578789
Ah yeah you're right my bad, its been awhile since I looked over the exo-suit info, though I thought the minotaur was more for shipboard actions and vacuum ops, where as the falconer is basically a mini-fighter.

>>49578814
Falconer certainly outperforms just about all of them in space, and has a much further operational range compared to most other suits that are mainly ship-to-ship boarding focused, but most all exo-suits except like the Sandstalker and Sabertooth can operate in space to at least some degree. And even those two have space variants.

>>49578906
Ah alright And that would make sense. That said I love the look of the sandstalker but, there is just something about the sabertooth that makes it look kinda derpy to me.

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>>49578927
The Sabertooth is really just supposed to be a heavy Sandstalker. The White Books make it look squat and fat, with those big three finger hands, it just looks fat and dumb.
The Green Book art makes it look a LOT cooler, even if it just looks like, well, a heavy Sandstalker.

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>>49578977
For comparison, Green Book Sandstalker.

>>49579175
>>49578977
I'll admit I like these a lot better than their blue book versions.

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>>49579197
I personally prefer the Green Book art in general, even if a lot of stuff looks very same-y. Though DP9 did a MUCH better job with ships.

>>49579251
what did ships look like in the green books Ive only seen DP9 ships which I agree are fantastic to looks at,

>>49579297

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>>49579297
They just basically just ALL look like this.

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>>49579399
Fuck where'd my picture go. Let's try that again.

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>>49579407
Notice how there's almost NO difference.

>>49579443
wow yeah fuck that they don't even look that pleasing to the eye either.

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>>49579522
They're basically just beveled rectangles, the DP9 versions are a VAST improvement. There's just so much more character to them.

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>>49578533
Tanuki Exo-Suit.
Size 7. So the same weight class as a Grizzly/Cobra.

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>>49574909
It's by Ghislain.

And this is one of the Marc A concept sketches he did.

>>49572099
>>49572328
Well my preferred time period would be the Second Interpolar War. ROughly TN1935 (I think). I wanted to run a Merc campaign for a while with the PCs being based in Peace River then offer then a chance to join the Black Talons after Earth blows up Peace River.

>>49574785
>>49574798
Every time I see this it makes me regret the pose I put my Junglemower Support Cobra. Sadly I can't fix it without snapping the arm with the HRC apart.

>>49577458

I have it but i bought it so it has my name plastered on it.

>>49580233
just means you need to buy another on is all.

>>49580776
Good thing I'm gonna buy a second South starter anyway.

>>49581955
Just buy all the south starters and have the ultimate south army

>>49582621
>My entire army is comprised of Spitting Cobras. Come at me, bro.

>>49583643
Going to be op

>>49583643
So, um, who's going to spot for all those Cobras? "Basilisk" Cobras?

>>49584463
And not a lot of models. Cobras ain't cheap.

Also I would never do that. I'm not THAT big of an asshole.

>>49579898
Do you happen to have saved anymore of the stuff from Marc's website?

>>49579574
Ships of the fleet ships are my favorites. They started my DP9 obsession. Line they managed to make CEGA, JAF and the Venus fleets look different but still feel like they could still exist in the same universe.

>>49586325
My favorites are the little fighters like the Intruder.

>>49570803
Actually, in the case of the ONNets and their learning capability, most HG's are supposed to basically only get a "personality" after years and years of service.
Most "new" HG's ONNets know how to pick up and use the basic factory preset weapons that it was programmed with, the ones most common with it's model.

A Gear isn't a smart AI; it's more like a dog that can learn tricks sometimes, except it's "tricks" by necessity include walking, grabbing things, and doing any physical motion at all because they start out with less intellectual ability then a baby does, effectively "knowing" literally nothing at all.

A REALLY smart and experienced ONNet can learn to drive it's own Gear chassis, but that's not common at all.

>>49586491
Fun fact to go with that actually.

Gears, unlike babies, have NO INTEREST IN LEARNING originally. Gear Trainers are a job for top vets, they have to teach the things to use their bodies with pure habit; the CPU couldn't care less.

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>>49586282
That was infantry.

Here's the proto-Aller.

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>>49586623
More Southern tanks

File: hg_visigoth.jpg (49KB, 252x110px) Image search: [Google]

49KB, 252x110px

>>49586643
And the biggest.

File: hg_lighttanks.jpg (92KB, 325x360px) Image search: [Google]

92KB, 325x360px

>>49586671
Northern tanks.

File: hg_hatch.jpg (54KB, 288x150px) Image search: [Google]

54KB, 288x150px

>>49586686
Gear hatches

File: hg_vehicles.jpg (97KB, 339x360px) Image search: [Google]

97KB, 339x360px

>>49586697
Other Terranovan vehicles.

File: heavy_gears_visigoth_by_flaketom-d5kkhmz.png (408KB, 1280x637px) Image search: [Google]

408KB, 1280x637px

>>49586671
Visigoth is probably my favorite tank.

File: hg_mammoth.jpg (136KB, 590x360px) Image search: [Google]

136KB, 590x360px

>>49586764
Mammoth sketches.

File: hg_mammoth2.jpg (46KB, 216x288px) Image search: [Google]

46KB, 216x288px

>>49586786
Additional rear sketch.

>>49586786
now I know how mammoth legs fucking work

File: hg_redbull1.jpg (68KB, 288x216px) Image search: [Google]

68KB, 288x216px

>>49586812
Redbull

File: hg_redbull2.jpg (66KB, 288x216px) Image search: [Google]

66KB, 288x216px

>>49586845
Redbull gives you legs!

Wait...

File: hg_hovertank.jpg (78KB, 267x276px) Image search: [Google]

78KB, 267x276px

>>49586859
Hovertank (might be CEF, might be HR)

File: hg_utopia.jpg (139KB, 595x360px) Image search: [Google]

139KB, 595x360px

>>49586874
And the last one I've got, Utopia.

>>49577372
>>49577477
How about a 1.5x multiplier?