What other transhuman settings are there besides Eclipse Phase,

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

Have you tried >>>r/luddism? It seems like that board would be more your speed.

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

Mental gymnastics.

>>49406480
Nova Praxis

>>49406480
You already listed a good one, Transhuman Space is actually well thought out and justified.

>>49406646
Is that an RPG? Novel?

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

There are two schools of thought that believe it works. One being that somehow your consciousness is ultimately tied to your brain creating it. The other being that you do die, but ultimately for the sake of the rest of the universe you didn't so it doesn't really matter.


>I'm annoyed by how the writers of EP inserted their political biases into the setting and made the Jovians some strawman of everything they don't like (including the bush administration).

>Has anyone made a version of EP that's less shit?

Yes, /epg/ has often come up with ways to fix the Jovian republic or other weirdly political groups. That said, they also appear to have largely gotten over it.

>>49406695
RPG. Its newest verison is for Savage Worlds

>>49406480
Agreed, the EP writers are idiots for injecting their political biases so blatantly into the setting.

Transhuman Space is a far better transhumanist setting. Intelligent, thoughtful socio-political and economic commentary with some excellent writing. I don't even like GURPS as a ruleset but it's perfect for this.

>>49406480
HC SVNT DRACONES, though it's furry. And while I have looked through the rulebook at a con (it was chained to a table) I am not sure it's actually available for purchase.

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>>49406480
Sufficiently Advanced is my personal favorite. Draws inspiration from a lot of well-regarded SF literature, has an interesting setting with a minimum of political soapboxes, generally optimistic tone too which is a big plus for me. The first edition is available for free at http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/sufficiently-advanced. Second edition was released recently, it's got much more solid mechanics imo, although first edition is still well worth a look too.

>>49406480
Shadowrun?

>>49407208
>though it's furry
Lets face it, with transhumanism and genemodding, it's not an if (it will), or even a when (ASAP), just a how much.

>>49406480
40k

>>49407509
What kind of system is it?

>>49406480

Orion's Arm.

>>49406480
>But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

Some people disagree. Mostly, these are the people who get backed up.

>>49406480
>I'm annoyed by how the writers of EP inserted their political biases into the setting and made the Jovians some strawman of everything they don't like (including the bush administration).

Just ignore it, just say the jeans are the good guys.

>>49406480
>I'm annoyed by how the writers of EP inserted their political biases into the setting and made the Jovians some strawman of everything they don't like (including the bush administration).
What?

Didnt you ask this same question on atechan?

with the same picture too

>>49410779
You really don't know?

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>>49407135
>Transhuman Space is a far better transhumanist setting: intelligent, nihilistic, and with a wicked sense of humor

>>49410779
The designated bad guys of the setting have habitats called, among others, Bush and Pinochet.

>>49411395
You just sound like a retard when all you can do is meme.

>>49406704
>There are two schools of thought that believe it works. One being that somehow your consciousness is ultimately tied to your brain creating it. The other being that you do die, but ultimately for the sake of the rest of the universe you didn't so it doesn't really matter.

Ultimately, whether or not you're alive is only really important to you. So "dying", even if the universe doesn't care either way, kinda defeats the purpose of mind-upload "immortality." You, yourself, are not the one doing any of the things from the computer.

>>49409964
First edition uses a variation on the "roll stat + skill" system that involves some multiplication. It's intuitive enough, though it does mean that results scale very quickly at higher scores; thankfully it doesn't get as bad as, say, Scion, where you end up with characters who are unbeatable at their specialty and useless at everything else by high levels.

Second edition traded it for a diceless system that involves comparing a handful of factors (things like level of training, whether your character's gives them a technological advantage in one field, whether one of your character's Core Values supports the action they're taking, and whether you're willing to spend limited resources on it) to determine success or failure. It sounds simplistic, but the way conflict rules are written, there's a surprisingly large amount of room for strategy within it. It's relatively easy to determine before a fight has even started whether you can win or not, so the main intent is to encourage PCs to pick their battles, find creative solutions to problems, and decide whether it's worth, for instance, losing a fight in order to slow their enemy down.

There's a set of player-level rules as well, that govern things like what thematic elements you're most interested in seeing your character take part in. For instance, if your character has the Wonder and Action themes, that gives you as a player agency to put your character in situations where they can commit great feats of combat skill or observe spectacular events; by contrast, if you take a theme like Intrigue, you have a degree of plot control when it comes to subterfuge and intelligence.

>>49407135
>Intelligent, thoughtful socio-political and economic commentary with some excellent writing.
Doesn't Transhuman Space have catgirls?

>>49411804
And catboys. But so does any high transhuman setting that gets into biotech

>>49411415
if you think that's weird you can count how many things are named after Ronald Reagan IRL right the hell now

conservatism is still gonna be a thing in the future, my dude, and it really likes naming shit after dead fuckups

>>49411590
I think there are two counterpoints to that line, I'll call them the folk and the nuanced

the folk counterpoint is this. The benefits of ego uploading and backup technology vis a vi transport, 'persisting' through bodily death and benefiting from digitisation (VR, learning programs etc) mean that the digitized will outcompete the non-digitized most of the time creating an evolutionary pressure. Minds that are happy to egocast or get backed up will propagate in a literal way comparable to the way that organisms crudely propagate. Digitization becomes a necessary adaptation, though you are still free to consider the implications as frightening (like the jovians)

the other view is more nuanced. Teleportation or backups might kill the 'continuous me' (that's why the double ego bridge continuity of consciousness is a thing) but that 'me' isn't all, or even mostly, what I care about. I care about some other kind of propagation of 'me' into the future (for an author, it might be his works or for someone else, a charitable legacy). This 'me' will achieve things in 'my' name and I am willing to provide it with the advantages provided by digitization to achieve those goals which are greater than my personal continuity.

>>49406480
The Void

It's like Eclipse Phase, but not.

>>49406593
If it's in a state of constant update with you then the chain of perception remains unbroken.

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.
Sounds to me you don't really like modern concepts of transhumanism at all. Perhaps you'd prefer the 80's CUT OFF YOUR ARM, CUT OFF YOUR SOUL, COMPUTERS R BAD, EDISON WAS A WITCH, HUMANITY IS IN THE FLESH NOT THE MIND form of transhumanism. Cyperpunk and Shadowrun.

>>49406480
If it's your Cortical Stack getting retrieved it's literally you, removed from your body and stuck somewhere else.

Otherwise... it's just a clone\replica, yeah.

Also,
>trans*humans and gynoids not trashumans and gyros mmmmkay?

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die.
You're looking at it from a permanent/fixed self or soul point of view. Neither of these things exist in reality.
Isn't this another of those things that are up to you as the GM? If you're a nihilist you'll handle the issue differently, if you're a Buddhist you'll handle it differently, etc.

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

The whole backup thing works because there is no soul. There is just:
- The physical body.
- The information stored within it. Which Eclipse Phase calls the ego

Compare it with your computer:
- The physical body is treated as hardware.
- The ego is the software/data

Ego backups are like when you've been responsibly backing up the files on your computer. You come home to find that someone has destroyed the hardware. So you get new hardware*, then restore the software/data from backups.

Sure, it's not the original copies of all your files. But they are identical copies so you don't care about that distinction. That's the same for ego backups. The copy is identical, thus nobody cares about the distinction between original and copy if there is only one instance walking around.

*Maybe identical to the old hardware. Maybe different.

Ego casting is similar to you sending a file from your computer to elsewhere. The only difference is the added step of deleting the original.

>>49421347
But human consciousness is tied to the very cerebral structure that holds it, so just scanning the brain would not suficiente, never mind the issue that you aren't being ressurrected, but rather cloned and having a copy of your mind shoved inside it.

>>49422388
If one were to, slowly, exchange the own brain with nanobots that replace the neurons after 'copying' them, one by one, without ever interrupting the flow of consciousness. Over a course of maybe a few years. Would you still be you after it finished? Your cerebral structure is not there anymore, only an exact copy.

If at the end of that you are not you anymore, when did you cease to be you? When the first neuron got replaced? But the brain changes all the time, brain cells die, synapses reconfigure. You could say that even from moment to moment a 'you' dies and is replaced with an almost exact clone then.

But if you say that after all that you are still yourself, what if you then proceed to make a blueprint of that nanobotBrain, and store that digitally. The values every nanobot holds, as well as it's physical configuration. Then destroy the nanobotBrain and reconstruct it 1:1.

>>49420666
What's a cortical stack? All I knew about was resleeving.

>>49420605
bad b8 m8

>>49421347
Why are you assuming that because there's no soul, it therefore works?

It still doesn't. It's like a Star Trek-style teleporter. They wipe you out and then make a copy somewhere else. It's not you. It's a replica of you.

Backups? Lets say you have two files on two other HDDs. One is your main, one you have as a backup. Your HDD gets fried. Your backup may have the same funny cat pic, but it's still a copy of the main one. For us, that may be all that matters. When it comes to your life?

You have a copy of your consciousness uploaded somewhere. It has a new body made when you die. That is what happens.


>Compare it with your computer:
>The physical body is treated as hardware.
>The ego is the software/data

Want another example? You don't actually MOVE files on a computer. You simultaneously copy and delete a file. Computers are actually a good example of transferring consciousness not working.

>The copy is identical, thus nobody cares about the distinction between original and copy if there is only one instance walking around.

It would matter to you and anyone with common sense. You died. You have experienced the end of existence, permanently. The only difference between now and the transhuman setting is that a replica of you is now walking around.

>>49422388
Look up Whole Brain Emulation: A Roadmap. It addresses your concerns re: cerebral structure. Namely -- we already know we have to emulate a cerebral structure, the question is how much. Due to factors outlined in the aforementioned pdf, you might not have to emulate the entire thing in order to reproduce it. (It is of course very hard if you do have to emulate it down to the smallest level.)

>>49423118
Even if it is "just a copy", your self terminating only matters to your individual egoism. Anyone who cares to have you around has that copy. Whether because they love you or think you're the best scientist since Stephen Hawking, that copy is gonna be sufficient if it is a persuasive emulation.

And in EP, it's a persuasive emulation.

>>49406480
>Another thing...how the fuck does the whole ego backup/transfer thing work? If you die, you die. At least in 40k it can be different since souls objectively exist in the setting. But a backup of your mind is just a copy of you, not some kind of videogame save-state.

That's the great unanswered question of the setting. Is the Cortical Stack backup really you or is it just, as you said, a save state of your consciousness? A soulless copy?

I think EP is brilliant for bringing Existentialist horror to the forefront.

The Jovian stuff is pretty stupid, I'll grant you.

>>49423275
>Even if it is "just a copy", your self terminating only matters to your individual egoism. Anyone who cares to have you around has that copy. Whether because they love you or think you're the best scientist since Stephen Hawking, that copy is gonna be sufficient if it is a persuasive emulation.

Again, anyone with common sense would know it isn't you. It's common sense the setting lacks, but people today wouldn't. I could see some people not giving a shit if it's a pet at best, not a human.

>>49406480
I hear alot of horror stories about EP. Can someone help fill me in?

>>49423513
It's a horror game?

>>49423513
The authors are extremely preachy, with the evil slaver capitalist faction, the space nazis, and the glorious anarchy-land of people who can't do anything wrong.

If you fix up the setting a bit, though, the rules are well-made for transhumanist works.

>>49417947
That's nice for the clone but when I die it still won't be me in the backups computer/body/whatever the hell it's using.

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>>49406480

Be a man and do a homebrew.

I did a fucking mash up of most of transhuman settings and make my own.

Problem is no one wants to play it.

So it was mostly worldbuilding masturbation.

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>>49408798
>>49407208
Why do we still care whether it's furry, anyway? We won the war. Furfags stopped being a blight upon the internet ages ago. A good chunk of this board is probably too young to understand where the hate even comes from.

>>49410020

Not many people know it.

Its niche even for niche of /tg/.

Also its almost fucking impossible to actually play. Maybe for a one shoot. If you have non retarded ideas for campaign, shoot.

>>49406480
oWoD

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